December 8, 2025 • 24 mins
SEO doesn’t have to be overwhelming or expensive to actually work.
In this episode, I’m joined by Kelly Kumler, a brand and web designer with a serious love for SEO, to demystify what it really takes to get aligned, organic traffic to your site (without keyword stuffing or obsessing over trends).
Whether you’ve been guessing at keywords, blogging at random, or hoping your pretty website will magically rank, Kelly breaks down a clear, human-first approach to search engine optimization that supports your business goals and helps the right people find you.
We talk about:
- How to choose keywords that are actually winnable (and what tools to use) and the page structure both Google and humans love
- Why your site needs dedicated service pages and how they help with search engine optimization
- How AI tools have changed the game for SEO
- What to DIY vs. outsource and when to make the switch
This episode is your invitation to stop relying pretending SEO doens't exist and start building a simple, sustainable strategy that will pay off over time.
Links & References:
- For faster business growth through networking, strategy and accountability, check out the Powerful Women Rising Business Growth Community!
- Kelly is offering FREE website evaluations for PWR podcast listeners! Snag your spot HERE!
- Learn more about Kelly at www.kellyryann.com or connect with her on Instagram!
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Hi, Kelly.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Hi, Melissa.
Thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely.
Thanks for coming on and being aguest.
I'm excited to talk to you aboutSEO.
I get so many podcast guestapplications and they're all so
good.
I just love it, it's sofascinating to see like all the
different areas of expertisethat people have and all the
(00:23):
different like takes people haveon different topics.
But yours stood out to mebecause SEO, I feel like, is one
of like the great mysteries ofthe business world.
And it's like, I feel like Italk to so many people, and I'm
one of them.
That's like, yeah, SEO is reallyimportant and also scary,
confusing, and I'm going topretend like it doesn't exist.
So excited to talk to you aboutthis topic today.
(00:44):
Before we dive into that, telleverybody a little bit about you
and about what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Yeah.
So again, my name's Kelly.
I own a brand and website designagency called Kelly Ryan Co.
And we also specialize in SEO.
Um, I was a teacher for sevenyears before I got into branded
website design and reallystarted with the like, this will
be fun and creative.
(01:09):
And as soon as I heard aboutSEO, it was one of those like
words I knew, but didn'tactually know anything about.
But when I realized like howimportant it was to your website
and like what a website designercan do in the way of SEO, I knew
that it was something I reallywanted to dive into.
(01:31):
And it was really my first biginvestment in my business was
investing in a small groupcoaching program, all centered
on teaching website designersSEO.
So since then, I've been a bitof a fanatic and it's become a
really big part of how I run mybusiness.
And, you know, I see that thechanges that it makes for my own
(01:53):
clients.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Yeah, I love it because I think there's so much
talk in the business world,especially like small business
and online business.
We talk so much about socialmedia and social media marketing
and how to go viral and how todo reels and how to do all these
things.
And not as much about SEO.
Like it's one of those thingsthat we're like, oh yeah, that
would be nice.
(02:14):
Um so okay, let's start at thevery beginning for people who
don't know what SEO is, or maybewho like think they know what
SEO is, but maybe they don't.
Let's start with that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Okay, yes.
So SEO is search engineoptimization.
So most commonly we think of itwith Google, but those rules
have changed quite a bit, but wecan get more into that later.
Um, but it's really how yourwebsite and the content on your
website shows up across anysearch engine.
And we really start, all SEOstarts with keyword research,
(02:49):
where we need to figure out, youknow, what are people searching
for?
And how do we have that show upin our website or our blog posts
or even our YouTube videos sothat our content is being put in
front of the right people'seyes?
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Okay.
So does SEO, you mentionedYouTube videos and also
websites, does it also have todo with like what we're posting
on social media or not as much?
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
Just recently, actually, Instagram became a
searchable uh result.
So on Google.
So it does.
And there's also kind of thereare own like SEO rules within
the Instagram algorithm.
So yes, it's really importanteverywhere, but the algorithms
might be different betweenGoogle and Instagram and YouTube
(03:37):
and Pinterest, et cetera.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Okay, got it.
So for purposes of today'sconversation to simplify things
and also not make this like aneight-hour interview, let's
focus specifically on likesearch engines specifically.
So whether that's Google orYahoo or whatever people are
using.
Um, when it comes to SEO, whatwould you say are some of the
most common mistakes that yousee people making, especially
(04:00):
with their website?
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Probably the first and most common one is just
assuming keywords.
Um, like, oh, I'm a weddingphotographer in Atlanta.
So I'm gonna put photographer,you know, wedding photographer
in Atlanta all over my website.
When really, once you do alittle research, you might
actually find that that's areally hard keyword to rank for.
There's a lot of competition forit.
(04:23):
So it might not be the best wordto use on your site.
Of course, if that's what youdo, like you're gonna have that
in some places, but you shouldhave other keywords to focus on
as well.
Um, another big mistake that Isee is um using or forgetting
about some of the like keyfactors of SEO, like um heading
(04:48):
tags.
So all of the text within ourwebsites are tagged a certain
way.
Um, H1, meaning heading one, H2,H3, paragraph, div navigation.
So there are pieces of ourwebsite that Google wants to
know um, okay, this is the mostimportant thing.
(05:08):
Like your main heading on yourhomepage is going to be tagged
as an H1.
Think of that as like thechapter of your book.
And then you have subheading, orsorry, the title of your book,
and then you have subheadingsmore like the chapters, and then
you might have subchapters andsome textbooks, right?
And so that's where you go intoH3 and then paragraph.
And so when we misassign those,it can just be one extra step
(05:33):
that Google needs to do to likefigure out your content and what
the purpose of your content is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Okay.
So let's back up to the firstone when you talked about
assuming keywords.
Besides hiring you, which ofcourse we're all gonna do after
we listen to this podcast.
How do we figure out what thebest keywords for us are?
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
So there's a few different tools out there.
The one that I suggest the mostis called Uber Suggest.
And they do have a free version,which I think is great.
Um, and you can actually put ina keyword.
Again, I'll just use, you know,wedding photographer Atlanta.
Um, and you can put it in thereand it will spit out a bunch of
numbers.
So the two numbers you want topay the most attention to are
(06:16):
the volume and the SEOdifficulty.
So the volume is how many peopleare searching for that term each
month.
And then the SEO difficultywould be how hard is it to rank
for that term?
You know, there are some termslike, I don't know, if you just
invented a new smartphone andyou're trying to rank for
smartphone, like that's probablygonna be extremely hard because
(06:39):
you know that like Apple andGalaxy and or Samsung, you know,
they like have so much moneytowards their marketing to rank
for that word that that's gonnabe a really hard one.
So it's might be something youhave to consider like, is that
worth me going after?
Or should I look for anotherterm that's going to be a little
(07:00):
um easier on the SEO difficultyratings to try and rank for that
term instead?
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Okay, awesome.
That's a helpful tip.
And so when you're talking aboutthe second thing about talking
about like the heading tags andthe different places where we
have our text, is there certaintext that matters more than
others?
Like, do we want our reallyimportant stuff in the heading
and not in the paragraph?
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Yeah, we definitely want to have like your main
keyword in your heading wheneverpossible.
Now, if it's like superunnatural and does not fit, then
you're also speaking to like anaudience of people.
So even though we're trying toappeal to like the robots behind
Google, you still need to talkto people that are actually
visiting your website.
So don't forget about thatpiece.
(07:46):
But whenever possible, yes,putting those main keywords into
our heading is super important.
We still want to like use themthroughout the copy um on the
page as well.
But that heading, um,particularly that H1 heading
that holds a lot more value.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And I've totally seen thewebsites that you're talking
about where it's like they'revery clearly into the SEO.
And I'm like, this is greatbecause I'm gonna find your
website probably, but when I getto it, I'm gonna be like, this
is literally so awkward to read.
I don't even know what'shappening right now.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
I know it's like the words are like all twisted
around and backwards because forsome reason that's how people
search for it.
Right.
Doesn't actually make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Yeah.
Okay, so there is a strategicway to set it up and like where
to put specific text as long asit makes sense and it's
readable.
Okay, awesome.
Okay, so those are some of thecommon SEO mistakes that people
are making.
We've talked a little bit aboutwhy SEO is important, especially
when it comes to your websiteand um getting found on Google
(08:49):
or whatever search engines umgenerating like that organic
traffic a little bit more.
Um, one of the things,obviously, that I'm sure people
ask you about all the time nowis AI and things like Chat GPT
and stuff like that.
I feel like so many more peopleare searching those places now
than Google.
So, how has that kind of changedthe game for SEO?
SPEAKER_00 (09:13):
It has changed things a little bit, but really
we've found that if you havegood SEO practices in place on
your website, then you'reprobably going to be showing up
both on Google and in Chat GPTor other like AI search bots.
So the good news is that youdon't have to like redo
(09:34):
everything or set up now for oneand the other.
Um, but it is probably now evenmore important that you do have
these best practices in placebecause people are looking in
several places to try and findyou.
One thing that is different thatI think like helps a lot is
having one, like dedicated pagesfor either your services.
(10:00):
If you're you know a serviceprovider, like for myself, I
have a page for my websitedesign services, a different
page for my branding services,and a separate one for SEO
services, because then I canreally optimize each of those
pages for what that particularclient is looking for.
And the other piece is that alot of AI like the AI summaries
(10:24):
on Google, you know, you type inwhatever question it is, and it
pops up with like the littlesummary paragraph at the top.
And they want to like we want tomake it as easy as possible for
Google to use our content forthat little answer.
And so having, you know, quickanswers throughout your website,
(10:45):
maybe it's on an FAQ section, ormaybe you take those FAQs and
you have like a different blogpost for each of the main
questions that you get asked andstart the post with your own
little summary of the answer andthen continue writing more
in-depth and detailed answer.
(11:05):
But it gives you moreopportunity to show up in you
know that summary version onGoogle or even in Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
Yeah, I forgot about the Google summary.
That's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Yeah, it's I see it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
That's pretty new, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Yeah, it is.
And I think they even justrecently like changed it or
updated it, um, which you knowwill then be new things that we
need to test out and experimentto see.
But for the most part, it'sstill that, yeah, little summary
of giving you your answer asquickly as possible.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Okay.
So for people who are nervousabout SEO, especially people who
like I feel like when you're inthe first couple years of
business, especially, you it'sone of those things that you
feel like you should be doing,but you don't really have the
money to invest in having anexpert figure it out for you.
And so you just kind of let itgo because it sounds
(12:01):
complicated.
Is there like, should we bethinking about SEO before we're
at the space where we're readyto outsource it to somebody
else?
And if so, what are some likesimple ways we can start working
to improve it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
One thing about SEO is that it takes a long time and
it really grows over time.
So it's always a good idea tolike be thinking about it, you
know, early on in your businessand let it be something that
grows.
But it's also, you know, I getit, like you, especially at the
beginning of business, you can'tbe working on 10 different
(12:35):
marketing channels all the time.
Um, but if you want to make ita, and I wouldn't say a top
priority, but just, you know,something that you are gonna
focus on, start with justwriting blogs that are related
to your business, what youoffer, and what your audience is
looking for.
Because oftentimes doing thatregularly and consistently,
(12:57):
which is a key, um, you willbuild up keywords that you're
ranking for naturally.
It's just, you know, you end upputting content out there that
people are looking for.
And then later you can go in andget some other pieces
established or, you know, hiresomeone to build the rest for
you.
And you already have a lot ofgood content there to build off
(13:19):
of.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah.
Is there um like a length thatyou recommend for those blog
posts or like a specificfrequency that is ideal?
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
I say at least once a month, um, but it's more about
consistency than frequency.
Um, so you know, posting once amonth for a year is better than
posting six posts this month andthen six more in three months
and then never again for therest of the year.
(13:49):
Uh, so keeping that in mind.
And then the length, it's alwaysdepends a little bit.
I do try and recommend over athousand words per blog post,
um, just so that there is enoughcontent there to show up for
Google and to like inform youraudience.
Um, I do use another tool, it'sa Chrome extension called
(14:10):
Keyword Surfer.
And this one is great because Iwill plug in a keyword that
maybe I'm trying to rank for ormy client's trying to rank for.
And if I plug that into Google,it's gonna show me all of the
results.
And then next to those results,it's going to tell me how many
times is that specific keywordused in that post and how many
(14:31):
words is that post.
So that I can try and say, okay,so that top post has 1200 words
and uses this specific keywordtwice.
Can I naturally and in a waythat makes sense still to my
reader, write more on this topicand include the keyword one more
time?
Because that's not necessarilythe whole picture, but it is
(14:53):
something that can help you rankbetter for those words.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
Yeah, at least gives you an idea of what's working
for other people and you cankind of build off of that.
That's awesome.
These are really good tips,especially for like just getting
started.
Um, and if we want to try to DIYsome SEO, how do we know at what
point it makes sense for us tooutsource some of this?
(15:19):
And how do we find the bestpeople or the right people to
help us with SEO?
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Yeah, I think it's always comes down to, you know,
any marketing, like when am Iready to hire out for that piece
of it?
But um it's gonna come down tolike how much you want to spend
within the organic marketingchannel.
If you really like showing up onInstagram and you get a ton of
(15:50):
clients from there, then maybeSEO isn't something that you
need to focus on.
But um it also there's alwaysthe risk with you know Instagram
that your account disappearsovernight and or gets hacked or
whatever the case.
And with your website, you ownthat content and you own that
space.
And so that is something that isalways a nice to have.
(16:12):
Um for me, I spend a lot of timeon Instagram and you know,
posting on there, I get clientsthrough there, but also
sometimes I just can't stand tobe there.
I just kind of want a break fromInstagram.
And so it's important to me thatI'm also getting inquiries
through, you know, Google aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, okay, if people want toconnect with you, if they want
to learn more about what you do,I know you've got um some good
resources on your website andthings like that.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is
kellyrian.com, Ryan's with twoends, and on Instagram,
KellyRyan Co.
I like I said, I'm there a lot.
So I always get sick of it, thenshe's not there for a time.
I know then I might disappearfor a week, but you know, I'll
be back.
SPEAKER_01 (17:08):
Awesome.
I will put the links for both ofthose in your show notes so
people can click on that and getin touch with you.
And I appreciate you so muchcoming on the podcast and
sharing some of these tips.
They're really helpful.
I took a lot of notes so I cango and try to implement some of
them myself.
Good.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah.
Hi, Kelly.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
Hi, Melissa.
Thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely.
Thanks for coming on and being aguest.
I'm excited to talk to you aboutSEO.
I get so many podcast guestapplications and they're all so
good.
I just love it, it's sofascinating to see like all the
different areas of expertisethat people have and all the
(00:23):
different like takes people haveon different topics.
But yours stood out to mebecause SEO, I feel like, is one
of like the great mysteries ofthe business world.
And it's like, I feel like Italk to so many people, and I'm
one of them.
That's like, yeah, SEO is reallyimportant and also scary,
confusing, and I'm going topretend like it doesn't exist.
So excited to talk to you aboutthis topic today.
(00:44):
Before we dive into that, telleverybody a little bit about you
and about what you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Yeah.
So again, my name's Kelly.
I own a brand and website designagency called Kelly Ryan Co.
And we also specialize in SEO.
Um, I was a teacher for sevenyears before I got into branded
website design and reallystarted with the like, this will
be fun and creative.
(01:09):
And as soon as I heard aboutSEO, it was one of those like
words I knew, but didn'tactually know anything about.
But when I realized like howimportant it was to your website
and like what a website designercan do in the way of SEO, I knew
that it was something I reallywanted to dive into.
(01:31):
And it was really my first biginvestment in my business was
investing in a small groupcoaching program, all centered
on teaching website designersSEO.
So since then, I've been a bitof a fanatic and it's become a
really big part of how I run mybusiness.
And, you know, I see that thechanges that it makes for my own
(01:53):
clients.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Yeah, I love it because I think there's so much
talk in the business world,especially like small business
and online business.
We talk so much about socialmedia and social media marketing
and how to go viral and how todo reels and how to do all these
things.
And not as much about SEO.
Like it's one of those thingsthat we're like, oh yeah, that
would be nice.
(02:14):
Um so okay, let's start at thevery beginning for people who
don't know what SEO is, or maybewho like think they know what
SEO is, but maybe they don't.
Let's start with that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
Okay, yes.
So SEO is search engineoptimization.
So most commonly we think of itwith Google, but those rules
have changed quite a bit, but wecan get more into that later.
Um, but it's really how yourwebsite and the content on your
website shows up across anysearch engine.
And we really start, all SEOstarts with keyword research,
(02:49):
where we need to figure out, youknow, what are people searching
for?
And how do we have that show upin our website or our blog posts
or even our YouTube videos sothat our content is being put in
front of the right people'seyes?
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Okay.
So does SEO, you mentionedYouTube videos and also
websites, does it also have todo with like what we're posting
on social media or not as much?
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
Just recently, actually, Instagram became a
searchable uh result.
So on Google.
So it does.
And there's also kind of thereare own like SEO rules within
the Instagram algorithm.
So yes, it's really importanteverywhere, but the algorithms
might be different betweenGoogle and Instagram and YouTube
(03:37):
and Pinterest, et cetera.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Okay, got it.
So for purposes of today'sconversation to simplify things
and also not make this like aneight-hour interview, let's
focus specifically on likesearch engines specifically.
So whether that's Google orYahoo or whatever people are
using.
Um, when it comes to SEO, whatwould you say are some of the
most common mistakes that yousee people making, especially
(04:00):
with their website?
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Probably the first and most common one is just
assuming keywords.
Um, like, oh, I'm a weddingphotographer in Atlanta.
So I'm gonna put photographer,you know, wedding photographer
in Atlanta all over my website.
When really, once you do alittle research, you might
actually find that that's areally hard keyword to rank for.
There's a lot of competition forit.
(04:23):
So it might not be the best wordto use on your site.
Of course, if that's what youdo, like you're gonna have that
in some places, but you shouldhave other keywords to focus on
as well.
Um, another big mistake that Isee is um using or forgetting
about some of the like keyfactors of SEO, like um heading
(04:48):
tags.
So all of the text within ourwebsites are tagged a certain
way.
Um, H1, meaning heading one, H2,H3, paragraph, div navigation.
So there are pieces of ourwebsite that Google wants to
know um, okay, this is the mostimportant thing.
(05:08):
Like your main heading on yourhomepage is going to be tagged
as an H1.
Think of that as like thechapter of your book.
And then you have subheading, orsorry, the title of your book,
and then you have subheadingsmore like the chapters, and then
you might have subchapters andsome textbooks, right?
And so that's where you go intoH3 and then paragraph.
And so when we misassign those,it can just be one extra step
(05:33):
that Google needs to do to likefigure out your content and what
the purpose of your content is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:39):
Okay.
So let's back up to the firstone when you talked about
assuming keywords.
Besides hiring you, which ofcourse we're all gonna do after
we listen to this podcast.
How do we figure out what thebest keywords for us are?
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
So there's a few different tools out there.
The one that I suggest the mostis called Uber Suggest.
And they do have a free version,which I think is great.
Um, and you can actually put ina keyword.
Again, I'll just use, you know,wedding photographer Atlanta.
Um, and you can put it in thereand it will spit out a bunch of
numbers.
So the two numbers you want topay the most attention to are
(06:16):
the volume and the SEOdifficulty.
So the volume is how many peopleare searching for that term each
month.
And then the SEO difficultywould be how hard is it to rank
for that term?
You know, there are some termslike, I don't know, if you just
invented a new smartphone andyou're trying to rank for
smartphone, like that's probablygonna be extremely hard because
(06:39):
you know that like Apple andGalaxy and or Samsung, you know,
they like have so much moneytowards their marketing to rank
for that word that that's gonnabe a really hard one.
So it's might be something youhave to consider like, is that
worth me going after?
Or should I look for anotherterm that's going to be a little
(07:00):
um easier on the SEO difficultyratings to try and rank for that
term instead?
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Okay, awesome.
That's a helpful tip.
And so when you're talking aboutthe second thing about talking
about like the heading tags andthe different places where we
have our text, is there certaintext that matters more than
others?
Like, do we want our reallyimportant stuff in the heading
and not in the paragraph?
SPEAKER_00 (07:24):
Yeah, we definitely want to have like your main
keyword in your heading wheneverpossible.
Now, if it's like superunnatural and does not fit, then
you're also speaking to like anaudience of people.
So even though we're trying toappeal to like the robots behind
Google, you still need to talkto people that are actually
visiting your website.
So don't forget about thatpiece.
(07:46):
But whenever possible, yes,putting those main keywords into
our heading is super important.
We still want to like use themthroughout the copy um on the
page as well.
But that heading, um,particularly that H1 heading
that holds a lot more value.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
Okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And I've totally seen thewebsites that you're talking
about where it's like they'revery clearly into the SEO.
And I'm like, this is greatbecause I'm gonna find your
website probably, but when I getto it, I'm gonna be like, this
is literally so awkward to read.
I don't even know what'shappening right now.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
I know it's like the words are like all twisted
around and backwards because forsome reason that's how people
search for it.
Right.
Doesn't actually make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Yeah.
Okay, so there is a strategicway to set it up and like where
to put specific text as long asit makes sense and it's
readable.
Okay, awesome.
Okay, so those are some of thecommon SEO mistakes that people
are making.
We've talked a little bit aboutwhy SEO is important, especially
when it comes to your websiteand um getting found on Google
(08:49):
or whatever search engines umgenerating like that organic
traffic a little bit more.
Um, one of the things,obviously, that I'm sure people
ask you about all the time nowis AI and things like Chat GPT
and stuff like that.
I feel like so many more peopleare searching those places now
than Google.
So, how has that kind of changedthe game for SEO?
SPEAKER_00 (09:13):
It has changed things a little bit, but really
we've found that if you havegood SEO practices in place on
your website, then you'reprobably going to be showing up
both on Google and in Chat GPTor other like AI search bots.
So the good news is that youdon't have to like redo
(09:34):
everything or set up now for oneand the other.
Um, but it is probably now evenmore important that you do have
these best practices in placebecause people are looking in
several places to try and findyou.
One thing that is different thatI think like helps a lot is
having one, like dedicated pagesfor either your services.
(10:00):
If you're you know a serviceprovider, like for myself, I
have a page for my websitedesign services, a different
page for my branding services,and a separate one for SEO
services, because then I canreally optimize each of those
pages for what that particularclient is looking for.
And the other piece is that alot of AI like the AI summaries
(10:24):
on Google, you know, you type inwhatever question it is, and it
pops up with like the littlesummary paragraph at the top.
And they want to like we want tomake it as easy as possible for
Google to use our content forthat little answer.
And so having, you know, quickanswers throughout your website,
(10:45):
maybe it's on an FAQ section, ormaybe you take those FAQs and
you have like a different blogpost for each of the main
questions that you get asked andstart the post with your own
little summary of the answer andthen continue writing more
in-depth and detailed answer.
(11:05):
But it gives you moreopportunity to show up in you
know that summary version onGoogle or even in Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
Yeah, I forgot about the Google summary.
That's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Yeah, it's I see it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
That's pretty new, right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:20):
Yeah, it is.
And I think they even justrecently like changed it or
updated it, um, which you knowwill then be new things that we
need to test out and experimentto see.
But for the most part, it'sstill that, yeah, little summary
of giving you your answer asquickly as possible.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Okay.
So for people who are nervousabout SEO, especially people who
like I feel like when you're inthe first couple years of
business, especially, you it'sone of those things that you
feel like you should be doing,but you don't really have the
money to invest in having anexpert figure it out for you.
And so you just kind of let itgo because it sounds
(12:01):
complicated.
Is there like, should we bethinking about SEO before we're
at the space where we're readyto outsource it to somebody
else?
And if so, what are some likesimple ways we can start working
to improve it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
One thing about SEO is that it takes a long time and
it really grows over time.
So it's always a good idea tolike be thinking about it, you
know, early on in your businessand let it be something that
grows.
But it's also, you know, I getit, like you, especially at the
beginning of business, you can'tbe working on 10 different
(12:35):
marketing channels all the time.
Um, but if you want to make ita, and I wouldn't say a top
priority, but just, you know,something that you are gonna
focus on, start with justwriting blogs that are related
to your business, what youoffer, and what your audience is
looking for.
Because oftentimes doing thatregularly and consistently,
(12:57):
which is a key, um, you willbuild up keywords that you're
ranking for naturally.
It's just, you know, you end upputting content out there that
people are looking for.
And then later you can go in andget some other pieces
established or, you know, hiresomeone to build the rest for
you.
And you already have a lot ofgood content there to build off
(13:19):
of.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah.
Is there um like a length thatyou recommend for those blog
posts or like a specificfrequency that is ideal?
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
I say at least once a month, um, but it's more about
consistency than frequency.
Um, so you know, posting once amonth for a year is better than
posting six posts this month andthen six more in three months
and then never again for therest of the year.
(13:49):
Uh, so keeping that in mind.
And then the length, it's alwaysdepends a little bit.
I do try and recommend over athousand words per blog post,
um, just so that there is enoughcontent there to show up for
Google and to like inform youraudience.
Um, I do use another tool, it'sa Chrome extension called
(14:10):
Keyword Surfer.
And this one is great because Iwill plug in a keyword that
maybe I'm trying to rank for ormy client's trying to rank for.
And if I plug that into Google,it's gonna show me all of the
results.
And then next to those results,it's going to tell me how many
times is that specific keywordused in that post and how many
(14:31):
words is that post.
So that I can try and say, okay,so that top post has 1200 words
and uses this specific keywordtwice.
Can I naturally and in a waythat makes sense still to my
reader, write more on this topicand include the keyword one more
time?
Because that's not necessarilythe whole picture, but it is
(14:53):
something that can help you rankbetter for those words.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
Yeah, at least gives you an idea of what's working
for other people and you cankind of build off of that.
That's awesome.
These are really good tips,especially for like just getting
started.
Um, and if we want to try to DIYsome SEO, how do we know at what
point it makes sense for us tooutsource some of this?
(15:19):
And how do we find the bestpeople or the right people to
help us with SEO?
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Yeah, I think it's always comes down to, you know,
any marketing, like when am Iready to hire out for that piece
of it?
But um it's gonna come down tolike how much you want to spend
within the organic marketingchannel.
If you really like showing up onInstagram and you get a ton of
(15:50):
clients from there, then maybeSEO isn't something that you
need to focus on.
But um it also there's alwaysthe risk with you know Instagram
that your account disappearsovernight and or gets hacked or
whatever the case.
And with your website, you ownthat content and you own that
space.
And so that is something that isalways a nice to have.
(16:12):
Um for me, I spend a lot of timeon Instagram and you know,
posting on there, I get clientsthrough there, but also
sometimes I just can't stand tobe there.
I just kind of want a break fromInstagram.
And so it's important to me thatI'm also getting inquiries
through, you know, Google aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, okay, if people want toconnect with you, if they want
to learn more about what you do,I know you've got um some good
resources on your website andthings like that.
What's the best way for them toget in touch with you?
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
Yeah, so you can find me on my website, which is
kellyrian.com, Ryan's with twoends, and on Instagram,
KellyRyan Co.
I like I said, I'm there a lot.
So I always get sick of it, thenshe's not there for a time.
I know then I might disappearfor a week, but you know, I'll
be back.
SPEAKER_01 (17:08):
Awesome.
I will put the links for both ofthose in your show notes so
people can click on that and getin touch with you.
And I appreciate you so muchcoming on the podcast and
sharing some of these tips.
They're really helpful.
I took a lot of notes so I cango and try to implement some of
them myself.
Good.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah.
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