August 11, 2025 • 23 mins
Your business deserves better than fear-based marketing and fake urgency - and so do your clients.
In this episode, Digital Marketer and Copywriter Megan Kachigan proves that you don’t need to manipulate people into buying - you just need to be clear, aligned, and human.
Megan walks us through her exact three-step framework for values-based marketing, helping you connect the dots between what you believe and how you show up in your content (in a way that actually leads to clients).
In this episode, we cover:
- Why your values are more than just buzzwords and how to use them as a marketing compass
- How to set yourself apart (even when, on the surface, your offer looks like everyone else’s)
- The sales psychology behind messaging that builds trust instead of pressure
- How to use tools like ChatGPT without losing your voice or your edge
- Why the long game of values-first marketing leads to better clients, stronger boundaries, and way less burnout
If “buy now or you’ll die sad and alone” isn’t the vibe you’re going for, you’re gonna love this conversation.
Links and Resources:
- Join us at our next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For even deeper connections, check out the Powerful Women Rising Community!
- Get Megan's Messaging Clarity Journal for just $7 ($30 saving!) using promo code "journal7" - it's the perfect starting point for values-based marketing!
- Learn more about Megan, her Values-First Marketing podcast and her Copy Critique Club HERE!
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, hello, megan, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, so excited to talk to you today about all the
things, but one of the reasons,okay, I'm going to tell you.
First and foremost, you were thefirst person that I booked on
this podcast when I opened upapplications again, and I'm
going to tell you why.
For the people who arelistening, who want to be
podcast guests Number one, Ihave this little secret thing in
(00:28):
my application that says, ifyou actually read all of this,
tell me somewhere in yourapplication what your favorite
fruit is.
And you were the first.
There were at least like 47before you who did not tell me
what their favorite fruit was,and it seems really silly.
But also, if I'm going to haveyou on my podcast, I want to
know that you've read all ofthat information about like,
(00:51):
what makes you a good fit, whatdoesn't make you a good fit,
that you're not just likerobotically applying for all
podcasts, and that you careenough that you're a good fit
for this podcast to likeactually read all the things.
So good job, you.
And your favorite fruit ismango.
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I've been having a lot of mango smoothies this
summer and they are delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love it, so I told you before we started recording.
I just started a part-time job.
I did not tell you that it wasat Starbucks and we have I don't
know if you're a Starbucks girl, but they have these mango
dragon fruit refreshers that arereally delightful.
I just had one today.
It was really good.
Sounds great.
Okay, so we're not here to talkabout fruit.
(01:32):
We're actually here to talkabout marketing, and I know that
the way that you do marketingis very aligned with the way
that a lot of our listeners wantto do marketing or are
currently doing marketing, whichis the opposite of bro
marketing and really leaninginto, like, what your values are
as a person, what your valuesare as a brand.
(01:53):
How does that come across inyour marketing?
When do you listen to, likewhat the quote unquote experts
say about what you should bedoing, versus when do you do
what feels better to you,because that's just the kind of
person that you are.
So we're going to start by justtalking about what values-based
(02:13):
marketing is.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great place to start because I
feel like when we first startour business, your first
business coach or whatever hasyou like do your this worksheet
and it's like what are your corevalues?
Which is a great place to start, but then it's like we often
just kind of forget about themor they don't actually integrate
into our business and itdoesn't actually serve us.
(02:38):
So my framework takes it alittle bit deeper and actually
integrates it into our marketingso that we are attracting
people who share our same values, so that our clients especially
for the service providers youwant to work with people who you
actually want to work with andwho aren't going to burn you out
.
And so when you're aligned withyour values, you don't have to
(02:59):
feel salesy or gimmicky or weirdtricky, urgency, fomo, all
these kinds of tactics thatpeople use to close the sale,
and it's like when you lead withyour values and weave your
values into your messaging, youdon't have to do any of that.
You're selling so much more,naturally, because you don't
have to convince anybody.
(03:20):
You don't have to persuadeanybody.
You're already on the same teambecause you share the same
values and they want to be apart of what you offer and it's
just so much easier to sell thatway and you don't even feel
like you're selling and from,like, a long-term retention
point of view, it actually worksway better than discounting or
(03:45):
using these, this fear-based orscarcity-based marketing, which
the psychology, like the scienceand psychology, says it works,
but it works for that one sale.
It works for that short-termcash injection, but what happens
once they're actually insideyour program?
What about the lifetime valueof that client?
It doesn't talk about that, um,and there's probably a reason
(04:08):
why that is usuallystrategically left out of those
conversations.
So anchoring it in your valuesis one.
What is going to keep yourmessaging from sounding robotic,
which is exceptionallyimportant in this day and age,
um, and when you lead with whatyou believe in, your message
becomes so much moreirresistible and unmistakably
you You're not going to soundlike everyone else out there
(04:31):
who's in your industry.
So I have three steps to myframework.
It is very simple.
So one is to identify your corevalues.
Two is to align the values withyour actions.
Identify your core values.
Two is to align the values withyour actions.
And then step three is to letyour values lead the message.
So I can go a little bit deeperinto what those three things
(04:52):
actually look like.
That would be helpful.
Yeah, that'd be awesome, allright.
So step one is identify yourcore values.
So your values are really yourGPS, right.
They help you make decisions,they build your boundaries and
help you just communicate whatis true for you.
So a couple of questions toeither journal about or think on
(05:15):
would be like why was thiscompany really started?
What gap am I filling here?
What do my best fit clientsbelieve in?
What do I want to be known for?
So if you pause and think aboutthose questions and if you're
listening on the podcast,literally give you permission,
(05:35):
you can pause and like talk totext on your phone or write it
down real quick, because whenyou come, like jot down what
comes to mind right away, likewhat is popping up for you, that
is going to be super, superhelpful to have written down.
And, honestly, so many peoplehave taken their responses here
and just like turn it intocontent, turn it into emails to
their list.
(05:55):
Um, it's been so helpful forpeople to get clarity by just
word vomiting their answers tothese questions, and this is how
you start to move from blendingin to really being known for
something deeper.
It's going to help you figureout why you.
What makes you different fromeveryone else in your industry?
(06:16):
All the other you know healthcoaches, photographers, other
fill in the blank.
Why are people going to chooseyou over them?
And, yes, it could be yourlived experience, your
credentials, um, yourperspective, but oftentimes it
comes down to your values.
Um, another photographer, forexample, could be just as great
(06:37):
as the next one and you.
Maybe they have a similar style, but if they align with your
values, better they're going tochoose you over the next person.
Um, so first we got to knowwhat our values are.
Step two is aligning your valueswith your actions.
So most people just stop atstep one and that's not actually
helpful.
(06:58):
So you have to obviously dowhat you're saying you're going
to do, integrate them into yourbusiness and live them out in
your life as well.
Like this is where the rubbermeets the road right.
So it's easy to say you valuecommunity or you want work-life
balance, but what would someonesee if they looked behind the
scenes of your business?
(07:19):
So I have a client who her valueis community, but she sells
like healthy bars and one of theways she sells them is through
farmer's markets, and so at afarmer's market she has a kid
zone once a month to bring incommunity, and community has
been the thing that like kind ofkeeps her going when
entrepreneurship gets hard.
(07:40):
Kind of believed in her whenshe was first starting and
community really matters to herand this is a way she's building
community around her brand,even though a health bar has
nothing to do with community,but she's still incorporating
this value around her product.
And I'm going to give moreexamples a little bit later on,
(08:00):
but some questions you canreflect on to figure out well,
what is this for you you canthink about?
Are my values shaping mypricing, my partnerships, my
policies?
Are you modeling what you saythat you believe in?
How are your values actuallyshowing up in your work?
So I know this can be feel likea lot, but I would encourage
(08:24):
you to pick one value and askhow can that show up more
clearly in your decisions oryour customer experience?
What does that value actuallylook like when it's played out,
when it's lived out?
And then that leads us intostep three.
Now that your values are clearand they're visible, it's time
to turn them into your messagingand your marketing.
So here's what that means youcan share, like behind the
(08:47):
scenes, decisions rooted in yourvalues, how you came to make
that decision.
Use stories to illustrate thetransformation and get that like
oh my gosh, me too Kind of amoment from your audience who is
also believing the same things.
And good thing.
It's going to repel the peoplewho don't believe the same
things, and that's a good thing,because you probably would not
enjoy working with them anyways.
(09:08):
So it's going to save you a lotof stress and hassle down the
line and really attract yourmost aligned clients who are
just like oh my gosh, going tobe so loyal to you and your
brand.
Um, and then reflect youraudience's own values back to
them.
Show them that like, hey, we'reon the same team here.
We're believing the same things.
So I'll get into an example,because I think that's it's just
(09:32):
helpful to like okay, tangiblywhat does this?
look like yeah, so um, like adove, for example, like the soap
and shampoo company.
So they have a now iconic realbeauty campaigns.
If you've never watched them,I'm sure you have.
Um, you can just YouTube dovereal beauty and watch them.
They're so good they like, stillgive me goosebumps, and so that
(09:55):
campaign.
They're not really even sellingsoap or shampoo in it.
They are responding to theunrealistic beauty standards in
the media.
So they're featuring real womenof every size, race and age,
not models.
They are banning the retouchingof of images and they are
launching educationalinitiatives to boost self-esteem
(10:16):
in girls worldwide.
Never once do they say ourvalue is self-esteem in girls?
Right, but they'redemonstrating it by by doing it.
They are.
They're using their marketing topush it back against that
cosmetic perfection and pressurethat a lot of women feel.
So their brand voice centers oncompassion, empowerment,
(10:38):
confidence, and they're stayingaligned across the commercials,
the product packaging, thepartnerships, and so, as a
result, dove is a leader in thiscrowded personal care,
self-care industry, and it's notbecause they sell soap, it's
because they're championingwomen.
So it's their value ofself-esteem is evident across
(11:00):
their brand and their socialgood is so embedded in the brand
that people feel good aboutbuying their products and like
and they also get soap, you know, as a result of supporting,
championing women, like you know.
So it's so funny how it justcomes a full circle and like.
That is such a great example ofleading with your values,
attracting the right people, andyour product or your service is
(11:23):
going to sell naturally as aresult of that.
And then the other benefit isyou're not going to get burned
out because you're showing upfor a mission that you're
excited about.
You're showing up as your wholeself.
You don't have to mask anything.
You're just saying hey, here Iam, this is what I believe in,
and if someone doesn't agree,it's a lot easier to be like,
(11:44):
then this isn't for you.
Respectfully, um, because thislike is the hill I'm willing to
die on, this is what I trulydeep down believe, and like
going to plant my flag in thesand for this.
So you really build a moresustainable business as well by
um marketing with your values.
First, you're attracting peoplewho actually want to be in your
(12:05):
world, and not just because youtwisted their arm or had to do
these like crazy sales things,but because you just crafted a
values-based message thatactually felt like home.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I love the way that you put that and I think I
really like the examples thatyou gave to, the one about Dove
and then the one about theclient that you have with the
health bars, because I thinksometimes it's hard to think
outside of the box about howthese values actually, like,
apply and show up in ourbusiness.
Right, like, if your value iscommunity, then shouldn't you be
(12:37):
running a community?
Like, you know, that's what,that's just like, what we think
makes sense.
But I love those two examplesbecause, like for Dove, it's not
like our value is cleanliness,right, maybe it is, but you know
, there's a roundabout way thatthe value still show up in that
(12:57):
business.
That may or may not be directlyrelated to the product or the
service, and it's something thatyou said too.
I don't know if I heard it onyour podcast or on your website,
but something that you've saidbefore is that when your
marketing and your messaging isinfused with your values, that
is what takes you from being aservice provider to being a
(13:18):
brand, and I think that Doveexample really highlights that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, it raises you to more of a thought leader
rather than just anotherbusiness out there.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, and I think that's so important, especially
for people who are stillstruggling to get to the point
where they're making consistentincome or they're feeling
frustrated, because I know forme, when I first became a coach,
I thought there were no othercoaches out there and then I
became especially dating andrelationship coaches.
Then I became a datingrelationship coach and that's
like all I saw everywhere and itfeels sometimes like that's why
(13:54):
it's not working right, becausethere's 500,000 other people
doing exactly what you're doing,and so what you said in the
beginning is part of the values.
Work is what sets you apartfrom all the other people who
are doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
It just brings in people whofeel like my work is such a
breath of fresh air from allthese gurus who are telling them
they have to market this way,they have to follow this cookie
cutter advice, they have to do X, y and Z to reach 10 K months
or whatever it is, and it'sactually like well, wait, you
don't have to do that.
(14:31):
Um, it can be simpler, it canbe more authentic, and it's so
wonderful to get that feedbackfrom people in my copy clarity
club membership or even like mydone for you retainer clients
and just to hear them be likewow, I can just show up and like
not have to be prepared, nothave to be perfect, and then we
take it and turn it intomarketing that like feels good
(14:54):
and feels them and they're likeconfident oh, this is going to
sell.
This is what my audience needsto hear and this is what's going
to get the right people in myprograms so that that coach can
stay in their zone of genius andserve their clients and make
the impact that they startedtheir business to make.
Right, because you're going tostart your business to like
become a full-time marketer?
(15:15):
Probably not, most people didnot but then it ends up to get
the clients we have to do themarketing, and so it becomes
this vicious cycle.
And this helps you break out ofthat cycle, make marketing a
little bit more fun, I wouldlike to think because you're
energized by your mission,you're energized by what you
actually care about and themessage you want to put into the
(15:38):
world, and then you're gettingclients naturally as a result of
just like having these good,inspiring conversations with
people.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I think we can't really talkabout marketing and copywriting
without at least talking alittle bit about AI.
So can we talk about how thevalues-based marketing and
knowing these values and stillbeing able to utilize some of
those tools to make our liveseasier how do we blend those two
together, or can we even yeah,I think it's definitely a both
(16:15):
and kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I feel like I initially came off kind of
anti-AI because I really valuebuilding your critical thinking
skills as a muscle and it willatrophy if you don't use it.
And I really value creativity,again, and it's a muscle and it
will atrophy if you don't use it.
And so I was very hesitant withAI at first because I also saw
(16:41):
the flip side, like the darkside, I guess, of maybe an
over-reliance on technology.
I've read books like theAnxious Generation or Digital
Minimalism by Cal Newport andjust how these things are
designed not necessarily withour best interests in mind right
, the company has its owncapitalism, its own like it's a
(17:06):
business that needs to makemoney, right, some people for at
whatever cost.
And so it gave me a lot ofcaution and pause.
But then I've kind of developed, like right now I'm just going
to say like I use chat GPDpretty much every day, not
always for business thingssometimes, um, and I think about
(17:28):
it differently and I realizedI'm not as anti AI as maybe I
thought I was.
I'm anti like the thoughtless AIthat kills the critical
thinking and creativity.
I'm anti AI with like badprompting or minimal prompting
or only one sentence ofprompting, or even only like a
couple sentences of promptingNot enough.
I'm anti using AI as asubstitute for your heart, your
(17:51):
brain, your humanity.
Right, marketing?
You're a human trying toconnect with another human, but
you're trying to insert a robotinto that human connection, like
why?
I don't know that that makessense.
But there's a way to use AIwhere it's actually going to be
helpful and supportive andefficient, without letting it
(18:12):
take over your authenticity,your humanity, your actual voice
.
So I offer an intensive wherewe get to the heart of your
brand message, your brand voice,and really hone that in first
and like that's the thing thatyou feed AI to then give you a
(18:32):
first draft, right.
But again, there's anothermistake is people just post the
first draft and leave it at that, versus it still needs a little
massaging, it still needs alittle work, it still needs
editing.
You can't just stop there, evenwith really excellent prompting
and instructions and knowledgebase and all of the things.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
No matter what you do , it still won't be you.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I find it's most helpful tosave me time with maybe other
tasks, not necessarily writingthe final draft.
It's great for brainstorming,it's great for batting around
ideas for hooks or headlines, ormaybe creating an outline, or
brain dumping my thoughts andhaving it organize my thoughts.
Um, maybe occasionally use itfor again a first draft, but
(19:24):
don't leave it at the firstdraft.
Um, we need to work it fromthere, because a lot of people
join my copy clarity club whenthey realize, oh, I saved so
much time with AI, but then it'snot converting, they're not
getting clients from it.
So, like, did it really saveyou time?
So then they come join mymembership to get a real human.
(19:48):
Okay, now we have a first draft, let's work with that.
Here are the specific things Iwould tweak try that, test it,
see how that improves your ROIthere and actually get results.
So again, it's not bad, it's agreat starting point, but don't
leave it at the starting point.
We need to work with it fromthere.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that you mentioned yourcopyright club.
I was looking at your websitebefore we started recording and
I found that and I was like Iwas like signing up for it.
I was like ready to go.
And then I was like yourwebsite before we started
recording and I found that and Iwas like, right, I was like
signing up for it.
I was like ready to go.
And then I was like, okay,melissa, maybe like take a
breath.
This is how.
This is how I end up spending alot of money on stuff.
And it's really unfortunatebecause I have the best guests
(20:32):
on this podcast and inevitably,like at least halfway through
the podcast interview, in mymind I'm like I need to hire her
.
I'm totally going to hire herafter that and I'm like, okay,
you can't hire every singleguest that you have on the
podcast.
Maybe someday, but not alltoday.
So if people want to learn moreabout that or I know that you
(20:53):
have a really awesome resourceon your website for people who
are thinking about their valuesor you know, or trying to figure
out what they are mayberevisiting them for the first
time in a while, or maybe theyjust want to know about you.
You're done for you services,or they just want to connect
with you as a human.
What's the best way for them tolearn more about you?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yes, so connect with me at the Values First Marketing
Podcast and you can find all mylinks through there.
Otherwise, you can find me atMegan Katchigan on Instagram or
megankatchigancom, but I knowthat is hard to spell, so Google
values first marketing podcastand then find my links from
there.
Um, would probably be theeasiest way to connect with me.
(21:33):
And then I know in the shownotes you have the link to my
messaging clarity journal andthat is a great start for so
many people who are either juststarting out for solopreneurs or
you're maybe rebranding or justneed to revisit the basics
because it's not working for you.
That is such a great place tostart.
And if you liked some of thequestions that I asked in the
(21:54):
episode and you're like, yes, Ineed to think on that, like that
is something you knowworthwhile to put my time into
or I need to, I would love touse ChatGPT.
Where do I even start with this?
This is the foundational workthat you need before you can
even consider, you know, hiring,help for marketing or using
ChatGPT and actually getting agood result out of it.
(22:16):
So, as a thank you for being apodcast listener, if you use the
code journal seven, it willgive reduce the price from $37
for the messaging clarityjournal down to just $7.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Awesome, thank you, that's great.
So I will put the link for themessaging clarity journal in the
show notes with that promo code.
I'll also put your other links,if people can't remember how to
spell your name or can't figureit out, and the link for your
podcast as well, because yourpodcast is awesome.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
This has been really goodinformation.
I love the.
(22:48):
I love the idea of the valuesfirst marketing.
It just makes so much sense ona person to person level.
I was talking to somebody theother day who said, like it
doesn't matter if you are B2C oryou're B2B, you're still H2H,
right, like we're stillcommunicating.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
This works across industries, across.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So I love that.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
Yes, I appreciate it.
Okay, hello, megan, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, so excited to talk to you today about all the
things, but one of the reasons,okay, I'm going to tell you.
First and foremost, you were thefirst person that I booked on
this podcast when I opened upapplications again, and I'm
going to tell you why.
For the people who arelistening, who want to be
podcast guests Number one, Ihave this little secret thing in
(00:28):
my application that says, ifyou actually read all of this,
tell me somewhere in yourapplication what your favorite
fruit is.
And you were the first.
There were at least like 47before you who did not tell me
what their favorite fruit was,and it seems really silly.
But also, if I'm going to haveyou on my podcast, I want to
know that you've read all ofthat information about like,
(00:51):
what makes you a good fit, whatdoesn't make you a good fit,
that you're not just likerobotically applying for all
podcasts, and that you careenough that you're a good fit
for this podcast to likeactually read all the things.
So good job, you.
And your favorite fruit ismango.
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I've been having a lot of mango smoothies this
summer and they are delicious.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love it, so I told you before we started recording.
I just started a part-time job.
I did not tell you that it wasat Starbucks and we have I don't
know if you're a Starbucks girl, but they have these mango
dragon fruit refreshers that arereally delightful.
I just had one today.
It was really good.
Sounds great.
Okay, so we're not here to talkabout fruit.
(01:32):
We're actually here to talkabout marketing, and I know that
the way that you do marketingis very aligned with the way
that a lot of our listeners wantto do marketing or are
currently doing marketing, whichis the opposite of bro
marketing and really leaninginto, like, what your values are
as a person, what your valuesare as a brand.
(01:53):
How does that come across inyour marketing?
When do you listen to, likewhat the quote unquote experts
say about what you should bedoing, versus when do you do
what feels better to you,because that's just the kind of
person that you are.
So we're going to start by justtalking about what values-based
(02:13):
marketing is.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great place to start because I
feel like when we first startour business, your first
business coach or whatever hasyou like do your this worksheet
and it's like what are your corevalues?
Which is a great place to start, but then it's like we often
just kind of forget about themor they don't actually integrate
into our business and itdoesn't actually serve us.
(02:38):
So my framework takes it alittle bit deeper and actually
integrates it into our marketingso that we are attracting
people who share our same values, so that our clients especially
for the service providers youwant to work with people who you
actually want to work with andwho aren't going to burn you out
.
And so when you're aligned withyour values, you don't have to
(02:59):
feel salesy or gimmicky or weirdtricky, urgency, fomo, all
these kinds of tactics thatpeople use to close the sale,
and it's like when you lead withyour values and weave your
values into your messaging, youdon't have to do any of that.
You're selling so much more,naturally, because you don't
have to convince anybody.
(03:20):
You don't have to persuadeanybody.
You're already on the same teambecause you share the same
values and they want to be apart of what you offer and it's
just so much easier to sell thatway and you don't even feel
like you're selling and from,like, a long-term retention
point of view, it actually worksway better than discounting or
(03:45):
using these, this fear-based orscarcity-based marketing, which
the psychology, like the scienceand psychology, says it works,
but it works for that one sale.
It works for that short-termcash injection, but what happens
once they're actually insideyour program?
What about the lifetime valueof that client?
It doesn't talk about that, um,and there's probably a reason
(04:08):
why that is usuallystrategically left out of those
conversations.
So anchoring it in your valuesis one.
What is going to keep yourmessaging from sounding robotic,
which is exceptionallyimportant in this day and age,
um, and when you lead with whatyou believe in, your message
becomes so much moreirresistible and unmistakably
you You're not going to soundlike everyone else out there
(04:31):
who's in your industry.
So I have three steps to myframework.
It is very simple.
So one is to identify your corevalues.
Two is to align the values withyour actions.
Identify your core values.
Two is to align the values withyour actions.
And then step three is to letyour values lead the message.
So I can go a little bit deeperinto what those three things
(04:52):
actually look like.
That would be helpful.
Yeah, that'd be awesome, allright.
So step one is identify yourcore values.
So your values are really yourGPS, right.
They help you make decisions,they build your boundaries and
help you just communicate whatis true for you.
So a couple of questions toeither journal about or think on
(05:15):
would be like why was thiscompany really started?
What gap am I filling here?
What do my best fit clientsbelieve in?
What do I want to be known for?
So if you pause and think aboutthose questions and if you're
listening on the podcast,literally give you permission,
(05:35):
you can pause and like talk totext on your phone or write it
down real quick, because whenyou come, like jot down what
comes to mind right away, likewhat is popping up for you, that
is going to be super, superhelpful to have written down.
And, honestly, so many peoplehave taken their responses here
and just like turn it intocontent, turn it into emails to
their list.
(05:55):
Um, it's been so helpful forpeople to get clarity by just
word vomiting their answers tothese questions, and this is how
you start to move from blendingin to really being known for
something deeper.
It's going to help you figureout why you.
What makes you different fromeveryone else in your industry?
(06:16):
All the other you know healthcoaches, photographers, other
fill in the blank.
Why are people going to chooseyou over them?
And, yes, it could be yourlived experience, your
credentials, um, yourperspective, but oftentimes it
comes down to your values.
Um, another photographer, forexample, could be just as great
(06:37):
as the next one and you.
Maybe they have a similar style, but if they align with your
values, better they're going tochoose you over the next person.
Um, so first we got to knowwhat our values are.
Step two is aligning your valueswith your actions.
So most people just stop atstep one and that's not actually
helpful.
(06:58):
So you have to obviously dowhat you're saying you're going
to do, integrate them into yourbusiness and live them out in
your life as well.
Like this is where the rubbermeets the road right.
So it's easy to say you valuecommunity or you want work-life
balance, but what would someonesee if they looked behind the
scenes of your business?
(07:19):
So I have a client who her valueis community, but she sells
like healthy bars and one of theways she sells them is through
farmer's markets, and so at afarmer's market she has a kid
zone once a month to bring incommunity, and community has
been the thing that like kind ofkeeps her going when
entrepreneurship gets hard.
(07:40):
Kind of believed in her whenshe was first starting and
community really matters to herand this is a way she's building
community around her brand,even though a health bar has
nothing to do with community,but she's still incorporating
this value around her product.
And I'm going to give moreexamples a little bit later on,
(08:00):
but some questions you canreflect on to figure out well,
what is this for you you canthink about?
Are my values shaping mypricing, my partnerships, my
policies?
Are you modeling what you saythat you believe in?
How are your values actuallyshowing up in your work?
So I know this can be feel likea lot, but I would encourage
(08:24):
you to pick one value and askhow can that show up more
clearly in your decisions oryour customer experience?
What does that value actuallylook like when it's played out,
when it's lived out?
And then that leads us intostep three.
Now that your values are clearand they're visible, it's time
to turn them into your messagingand your marketing.
So here's what that means youcan share, like behind the
(08:47):
scenes, decisions rooted in yourvalues, how you came to make
that decision.
Use stories to illustrate thetransformation and get that like
oh my gosh, me too Kind of amoment from your audience who is
also believing the same things.
And good thing.
It's going to repel the peoplewho don't believe the same
things, and that's a good thing,because you probably would not
enjoy working with them anyways.
(09:08):
So it's going to save you a lotof stress and hassle down the
line and really attract yourmost aligned clients who are
just like oh my gosh, going tobe so loyal to you and your
brand.
Um, and then reflect youraudience's own values back to
them.
Show them that like, hey, we'reon the same team here.
We're believing the same things.
So I'll get into an example,because I think that's it's just
(09:32):
helpful to like okay, tangiblywhat does this?
look like yeah, so um, like adove, for example, like the soap
and shampoo company.
So they have a now iconic realbeauty campaigns.
If you've never watched them,I'm sure you have.
Um, you can just YouTube dovereal beauty and watch them.
They're so good they like, stillgive me goosebumps, and so that
(09:55):
campaign.
They're not really even sellingsoap or shampoo in it.
They are responding to theunrealistic beauty standards in
the media.
So they're featuring real womenof every size, race and age,
not models.
They are banning the retouchingof of images and they are
launching educationalinitiatives to boost self-esteem
(10:16):
in girls worldwide.
Never once do they say ourvalue is self-esteem in girls?
Right, but they'redemonstrating it by by doing it.
They are.
They're using their marketing topush it back against that
cosmetic perfection and pressurethat a lot of women feel.
So their brand voice centers oncompassion, empowerment,
(10:38):
confidence, and they're stayingaligned across the commercials,
the product packaging, thepartnerships, and so, as a
result, dove is a leader in thiscrowded personal care,
self-care industry, and it's notbecause they sell soap, it's
because they're championingwomen.
So it's their value ofself-esteem is evident across
(11:00):
their brand and their socialgood is so embedded in the brand
that people feel good aboutbuying their products and like
and they also get soap, you know, as a result of supporting,
championing women, like you know.
So it's so funny how it justcomes a full circle and like.
That is such a great example ofleading with your values,
attracting the right people, andyour product or your service is
(11:23):
going to sell naturally as aresult of that.
And then the other benefit isyou're not going to get burned
out because you're showing upfor a mission that you're
excited about.
You're showing up as your wholeself.
You don't have to mask anything.
You're just saying hey, here Iam, this is what I believe in,
and if someone doesn't agree,it's a lot easier to be like,
(11:44):
then this isn't for you.
Respectfully, um, because thislike is the hill I'm willing to
die on, this is what I trulydeep down believe, and like
going to plant my flag in thesand for this.
So you really build a moresustainable business as well by
um marketing with your values.
First, you're attracting peoplewho actually want to be in your
(12:05):
world, and not just because youtwisted their arm or had to do
these like crazy sales things,but because you just crafted a
values-based message thatactually felt like home.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I love the way that you put that and I think I
really like the examples thatyou gave to, the one about Dove
and then the one about theclient that you have with the
health bars, because I thinksometimes it's hard to think
outside of the box about howthese values actually, like,
apply and show up in ourbusiness.
Right, like, if your value iscommunity, then shouldn't you be
(12:37):
running a community?
Like, you know, that's what,that's just like, what we think
makes sense.
But I love those two examplesbecause, like for Dove, it's not
like our value is cleanliness,right, maybe it is, but you know
, there's a roundabout way thatthe value still show up in that
(12:57):
business.
That may or may not be directlyrelated to the product or the
service, and it's something thatyou said too.
I don't know if I heard it onyour podcast or on your website,
but something that you've saidbefore is that when your
marketing and your messaging isinfused with your values, that
is what takes you from being aservice provider to being a
(13:18):
brand, and I think that Doveexample really highlights that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, it raises you to more of a thought leader
rather than just anotherbusiness out there.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, and I think that's so important, especially
for people who are stillstruggling to get to the point
where they're making consistentincome or they're feeling
frustrated, because I know forme, when I first became a coach,
I thought there were no othercoaches out there and then I
became especially dating andrelationship coaches.
Then I became a datingrelationship coach and that's
like all I saw everywhere and itfeels sometimes like that's why
(13:54):
it's not working right, becausethere's 500,000 other people
doing exactly what you're doing,and so what you said in the
beginning is part of the values.
Work is what sets you apartfrom all the other people who
are doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
It just brings in people whofeel like my work is such a
breath of fresh air from allthese gurus who are telling them
they have to market this way,they have to follow this cookie
cutter advice, they have to do X, y and Z to reach 10 K months
or whatever it is, and it'sactually like well, wait, you
don't have to do that.
(14:31):
Um, it can be simpler, it canbe more authentic, and it's so
wonderful to get that feedbackfrom people in my copy clarity
club membership or even like mydone for you retainer clients
and just to hear them be likewow, I can just show up and like
not have to be prepared, nothave to be perfect, and then we
take it and turn it intomarketing that like feels good
(14:54):
and feels them and they're likeconfident oh, this is going to
sell.
This is what my audience needsto hear and this is what's going
to get the right people in myprograms so that that coach can
stay in their zone of genius andserve their clients and make
the impact that they startedtheir business to make.
Right, because you're going tostart your business to like
become a full-time marketer?
(15:15):
Probably not, most people didnot but then it ends up to get
the clients we have to do themarketing, and so it becomes
this vicious cycle.
And this helps you break out ofthat cycle, make marketing a
little bit more fun, I wouldlike to think because you're
energized by your mission,you're energized by what you
actually care about and themessage you want to put into the
(15:38):
world, and then you're gettingclients naturally as a result of
just like having these good,inspiring conversations with
people.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
I think we can't really talkabout marketing and copywriting
without at least talking alittle bit about AI.
So can we talk about how thevalues-based marketing and
knowing these values and stillbeing able to utilize some of
those tools to make our liveseasier how do we blend those two
together, or can we even yeah,I think it's definitely a both
(16:15):
and kind of situation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I feel like I initially came off kind of
anti-AI because I really valuebuilding your critical thinking
skills as a muscle and it willatrophy if you don't use it.
And I really value creativity,again, and it's a muscle and it
will atrophy if you don't use it.
And so I was very hesitant withAI at first because I also saw
(16:41):
the flip side, like the darkside, I guess, of maybe an
over-reliance on technology.
I've read books like theAnxious Generation or Digital
Minimalism by Cal Newport andjust how these things are
designed not necessarily withour best interests in mind right
, the company has its owncapitalism, its own like it's a
(17:06):
business that needs to makemoney, right, some people for at
whatever cost.
And so it gave me a lot ofcaution and pause.
But then I've kind of developed, like right now I'm just going
to say like I use chat GPDpretty much every day, not
always for business thingssometimes, um, and I think about
(17:28):
it differently and I realizedI'm not as anti AI as maybe I
thought I was.
I'm anti like the thoughtless AIthat kills the critical
thinking and creativity.
I'm anti AI with like badprompting or minimal prompting
or only one sentence ofprompting, or even only like a
couple sentences of promptingNot enough.
I'm anti using AI as asubstitute for your heart, your
(17:51):
brain, your humanity.
Right, marketing?
You're a human trying toconnect with another human, but
you're trying to insert a robotinto that human connection, like
why?
I don't know that that makessense.
But there's a way to use AIwhere it's actually going to be
helpful and supportive andefficient, without letting it
(18:12):
take over your authenticity,your humanity, your actual voice
.
So I offer an intensive wherewe get to the heart of your
brand message, your brand voice,and really hone that in first
and like that's the thing thatyou feed AI to then give you a
(18:32):
first draft, right.
But again, there's anothermistake is people just post the
first draft and leave it at that, versus it still needs a little
massaging, it still needs alittle work, it still needs
editing.
You can't just stop there, evenwith really excellent prompting
and instructions and knowledgebase and all of the things.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
No matter what you do , it still won't be you.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I find it's most helpful tosave me time with maybe other
tasks, not necessarily writingthe final draft.
It's great for brainstorming,it's great for batting around
ideas for hooks or headlines, ormaybe creating an outline, or
brain dumping my thoughts andhaving it organize my thoughts.
Um, maybe occasionally use itfor again a first draft, but
(19:24):
don't leave it at the firstdraft.
Um, we need to work it fromthere, because a lot of people
join my copy clarity club whenthey realize, oh, I saved so
much time with AI, but then it'snot converting, they're not
getting clients from it.
So, like, did it really saveyou time?
So then they come join mymembership to get a real human.
(19:48):
Okay, now we have a first draft, let's work with that.
Here are the specific things Iwould tweak try that, test it,
see how that improves your ROIthere and actually get results.
So again, it's not bad, it's agreat starting point, but don't
leave it at the starting point.
We need to work with it fromthere.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that you mentioned yourcopyright club.
I was looking at your websitebefore we started recording and
I found that and I was like Iwas like signing up for it.
I was like ready to go.
And then I was like yourwebsite before we started
recording and I found that and Iwas like, right, I was like
signing up for it.
I was like ready to go.
And then I was like, okay,melissa, maybe like take a
breath.
This is how.
This is how I end up spending alot of money on stuff.
And it's really unfortunatebecause I have the best guests
(20:32):
on this podcast and inevitably,like at least halfway through
the podcast interview, in mymind I'm like I need to hire her
.
I'm totally going to hire herafter that and I'm like, okay,
you can't hire every singleguest that you have on the
podcast.
Maybe someday, but not alltoday.
So if people want to learn moreabout that or I know that you
(20:53):
have a really awesome resourceon your website for people who
are thinking about their valuesor you know, or trying to figure
out what they are mayberevisiting them for the first
time in a while, or maybe theyjust want to know about you.
You're done for you services,or they just want to connect
with you as a human.
What's the best way for them tolearn more about you?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yes, so connect with me at the Values First Marketing
Podcast and you can find all mylinks through there.
Otherwise, you can find me atMegan Katchigan on Instagram or
megankatchigancom, but I knowthat is hard to spell, so Google
values first marketing podcastand then find my links from
there.
Um, would probably be theeasiest way to connect with me.
(21:33):
And then I know in the shownotes you have the link to my
messaging clarity journal andthat is a great start for so
many people who are either juststarting out for solopreneurs or
you're maybe rebranding or justneed to revisit the basics
because it's not working for you.
That is such a great place tostart.
And if you liked some of thequestions that I asked in the
(21:54):
episode and you're like, yes, Ineed to think on that, like that
is something you knowworthwhile to put my time into
or I need to, I would love touse ChatGPT.
Where do I even start with this?
This is the foundational workthat you need before you can
even consider, you know, hiring,help for marketing or using
ChatGPT and actually getting agood result out of it.
(22:16):
So, as a thank you for being apodcast listener, if you use the
code journal seven, it willgive reduce the price from $37
for the messaging clarityjournal down to just $7.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Awesome, thank you, that's great.
So I will put the link for themessaging clarity journal in the
show notes with that promo code.
I'll also put your other links,if people can't remember how to
spell your name or can't figureit out, and the link for your
podcast as well, because yourpodcast is awesome.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
This has been really goodinformation.
I love the.
(22:48):
I love the idea of the valuesfirst marketing.
It just makes so much sense ona person to person level.
I was talking to somebody theother day who said, like it
doesn't matter if you are B2C oryou're B2B, you're still H2H,
right, like we're stillcommunicating.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
This works across industries, across.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So I love that.
Thank you so much for being aguest.
Yes, I appreciate it.
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