February 6, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Matisse chats with Claudia Costello, a senior account executive at 104 West and the community manager for The PR Habitat.
About Claudia Costello
Claudia Costello (she/her) is a senior account Executive at 104 West, a strategic communications firm in Denver. She is a (self-proclaimed) media relations expert passionate about telling stories for B2B tech companies. She is also the community manager for The PR Habitat.
Follow Claudia and The PR Habitat:
LinkedIn- Claudia Costello
LinkedIn - The PR Habitat (Company page)
LinkedIn - The PR Habitat (Group page)
Instagram - The PR Habitat
Connect with PR & Lattes
Website: PR & Lattes
Instagram: @PRAndLattes
Host: @MatisseNelis
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (00:03):
Hello and welcome back for Season 5 of PR
& Lattes, the podcast where youcan fill up your cup on
everything PR andcommunications. I'm your host,
Matisse, Hamel-Nelis, and I amthrilled to have you join me
today for a brand new episodeand season. Before we get
started, make sure you subscribeto this podcast wherever you're
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(00:24):
a new episode drops. You canalso subscribe to our newsletter
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you'll find our podcastepisodes, plus our amazing blogs
with new ones being uploadedevery Monday morning. And of
course, make sure you'refollowing us on Instagram at
@PRAndLattes and on LinkedIn, PR& Lattes. On today's episode,
(00:47):
I'm chatting with ClaudiaCostello, a Senior Account
Executive at 104 West in Denver,and the community manager of The
PR Habitat. She is aself-proclaimed media relations
expert and is passionate abouttelling stories for B2B tech
companies. I'm so excited toshare my chat with her when we
talked about PR, Gen Z and, ofcourse, The PR Habitat. So grab
(01:09):
your latte, sit back and enjoy.
I am so excited for today'sepisode. It's an area of
communications and PR that Ithink we're sleeping on and I'm
excited to have our guest,Claudia, here from The PR
Habitat to talk to us today.
Welcome Claudia.
Claudia Costello (01:27):
Hi. I'm so excited to be here.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (01:29):
Oh, this is gonna be so much fun again. The
Gen Z era of communicatorscoming into the fore of our
profession is such a I thinkit's a breath of fresh air,
different perspectives, justdifferent viewpoints. But at the
same time, there are a lot ofchallenges and things like that
happening around it. So I'm soexcited to get to talk to you
(01:50):
about your perspectives andinsights and how we as a
profession can grow and embraceand do amazing things together.
So let's dive into it. So let'sstart off easy, easy, easy
question, hopefully tell meabout yourself and your own PR
journey.
Claudia Costello (02:06):
Okay, so I went into college at the
University of Colorado, Boulder,completely undecided. I had no
idea what I wanted to do, and Ijust I kind of knew I gravitated
toward English and writinglanguage based subjects, and
they came natural to me. So Itook one intro to advertising PR
and media design class during myfreshman year, and it just kind
(02:29):
of clicked, this is what I wantto do. And I think I got really
lucky in that sense, where Ifound something really early on
in college that was interestingto me, and I just kind of ran
with it throughout my years, Itook the classic writing for PR
strategic communications,research methods, those types of
classes and those just furtheredmy interest. I also joined the
(02:52):
Public Relations Student Societyof America, so PRSSA. And within
their newsletter in my senioryear, I saw an internship in
Denver and decided to apply.
Somehow I landed it, even thoughI was definitely under qualified
and under prepared for theinterview. I think my boss just
saw something in me and mywriting specifically, and that
(03:14):
was the internship started myspring semester of senior year.
So after graduation, I feltsuper prepared, in the sense
that I had, like a writingportfolio from the internship,
my boss connected me with abunch of agency leaders, and I
just kind of had one footforward. So after graduation, I
(03:34):
applied to a ton of techstartups across the U.S. and
agencies just kind of trying toland a job. And I was lucky
enough to land one in Denver at104 West, which is a boutique
strategic communications agency,and we do a lot of work,
specifically with B2B techcompanies and startups.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (03:57):
Awesome, awesome. All right, let's, let's
just dive into it. Let's diveinto the good stuff. And given
the fact that you, you knowrelatively new into the industry
like these, this is aconversation, I think, like all
students and new practitionersneed to listen to. So I'm
excited to get into this. Sonumber one as a Gen Z year
entering the PR industry, whatchallenges have you faced, and
(04:19):
how have you navigated them?
Claudia Costello (04:21):
I think the number one challenge is it's
hard to break into the industry.
It really is hard. I was luckyenough that I had a mentor who
had connections in the industryand was able to kind of connect
me with different agency agencyleaders. It's just really hard
and school prepares youdefinitely. I felt prepared with
(04:43):
writing and AP style, I learnedall of that, but it didn't
prepare me for the types ofroles I needed to apply for.
Specifically, I didn't knowwhether I was applying for
account coordinator roles, moreinternships or. Yeah, honestly,
I probably applied to somesenior account executive roles
just not knowing what I neededto be. I think another challenge
(05:05):
is that when you're the youngestperson at your job, you tend to
be overlooked by leadership andby clients. I've worked really
hard to prove myself over thesepast couple years and show my
worth as a member of the team,especially with clients who I
feel like traditionally, look tothose leadership at the Agency
(05:27):
for guidance.
Matisse Hamel-Neli (05:30):
Interesting.
I feel like that what you saidat the end is also sort of a
strength that you have and thatyou were confident enough to
show your worth and your value,right? Here, a lot of recent
graduates, or some of mystudents who just entered the
industry feeling like, you know,I can't really step on any toes,
or they feel that way wheninstead, it's like, no, you're
just showing your worth. You'reshowing your value. You're
(05:52):
showing your voice and sharingyour thoughts that can
potentially help in a campaignin a way you didn't realize.
Yeah, yeah.
Claudia Costello (06:01):
And I think it definitely takes time to learn
to do that. My first couplemonths, I don't know if I spoke
a word in a single clientmeeting, and that's okay. I was
told by some of the leadershipat my company that if I feel
like I don't have anything tosay, I can just ask a question.
(06:21):
Questions are so important, andthey start conversations, and
that's something that reallyhelps me kind of learn to speak
up and prove my worth.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (06:31):
I love that. I love that. What other
unique strengths do you think,not maybe not just you, but in
general, when it comes to Gen Z,that they bring to the PR
industry? And how do you feelthat they can leverage these
strengths to really sort oflevel up in their success?
Claudia Costello (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, Gen Z is the future of the PR
industry. So I think we bringfresh ideas to the table and
provide those unique point ofviews for clients that our
elders just wouldn't be able tothink of. I think specifically,
we're going to change theindustry for the better. I've
already seen it in my shortthree year career. We're
(07:06):
leveraging social media, othertechnologies, to connect with
journalists and to tell clientsstories. I think the last thing
is, traditional PR is dying, andthe companies that still use it
are kind of falling behind. GenZ is redefining what PR means
for companies.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (07:25):
It's true.
I definitely agree with that,and I think that ties into my
next question really well, interms of the role of digital
digital literacy, as I gettongue tied, the role of digital
literacy and social mediaexpertise, Gen Z have grown up
with digital stuff in theirhands, whether it be a computer,
a cell phone or whatever, andsocial media is just always been
there, like I remember, and I'mgoing to date myself back in
(07:47):
2006 when Facebook was just forcolleges and university
students, and I was able to getin on that. Now people think
Facebook, and they're like, um,little dated. It's fine. So how
has, or how do you see the roleof the digital literacy and
social media expertise evolvingfor Gen Z, PR professionals as
they move forward, given thatthey already have this sort of
(08:10):
innate prowess with it?
Claudia Costello (08:13):
I mean, I think you said it perfectly,
social media has blown up overthe past 10 plus years, and
especially recently, I feel likecompanies have started to
leverage it more to connect withtheir customers and clients.
Companies like Duolingo andWendy's have leveraged it to
build a trustworthy brand, andeven in present day, Kamala
(08:35):
Harris's her campaign forpresident leverages Tiktok in
short form, short form contentto connect with Gen Z. I feel
like social is no longer just aside effort for companies and
within the PR industry initself, it's become its own full
thing. I've seen so many rolescrop up for social media
(08:55):
analysts, social media experts,and I think it's a great
opportunity for us in Gen Zspecifically, because we have
that digital literacy. Whoa, Igot tongue tied too, because we
have the digital literacy tokind of fill those roles and
prove our worth within those Ialso think because we're so
fluent when it comes to thedigital world, we're best suited
(09:17):
to fit these roles, and we havethe most expertise to develop
successful social media content.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (09:23):
And I think, you know, just naturally
because you're using it all thetime. And I jokingly say in
class, you know, oh, the peopleon the Tiktok. I say, the
Tiktok, why not? What I what Ifind really interesting and
fascinating is how quickly if Iask a student, or my students,
to create a campaign that wouldresonate on Tiktok, not
(09:43):
necessarily go viral, because,you know, you never know what's
really going to go viral, right?
But create something that wouldresonate. And the idea is, they
come up with that usually in,you know, most boardrooms, they
would say, oh, that's just alittle too out there. Or, like,
we've tried that. In the past,it wouldn't work. But there's a
spin to it that the Gen Zers areputting on it, that you're like,
(10:04):
No, that could actually work,right? Like mentioned Wendy's,
for example, and Duolingo, whowould have thought that sort of
character, if you will, thatthey've created the personas
that they've created for theirbrand would work in the
professional sense. But that'swho people are looking to to say
that's the type of brand wewant.
Claudia Costello (10:25):
And especially I feel like for Duolingo, their
social media and their marketingand advertising, it worked on
me. I downloaded the app like,yeah.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (10:36):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So from your
perspective, we, you know,digital literacy definitely a
huge, a huge win for Gen Zyears. What other strengths do
you think that they possess thatneeds to be highlighted, needs
to be understood, needs to beappreciated, really, from those
(10:58):
who are, you know, a bit older,even as millennials,
Claudia Costello (11:02):
I would say, along with the digital literacy,
I think just we understandtechnology, and there's so much
development within technology,every single day, I'm seeing a
new, generative AI tool comeout, and that, I think that we
are the generation thatunderstands it the best, and
it's important for our elderswithin the business world to
(11:27):
come to us and look for us foradvice on how to do these
things. I mean, generative AI isso confusing. And I mean ChatGPT
is awesome. I leverage it everyday at work, but I feel like
some of the older people I workwith, even my mom and dad, they
are like, staying away fromChatGPT and not using it to
(11:49):
their advantage, and I feel likethey might fall behind if that's
the case, because it's gonnabecome such a prevalent part of
how we do work every single day.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (11:58):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. I and
you're so right, it's going tobe the Gen Zers who really
appreciate and learn theinsights and nuances of
generative AI to really, youknow, shape what that could be
in a creative sense, in PR andcommunications, versus just
(12:18):
saying, like I've put in aregular prompt write a press
release. It's something regular.
Instead, I can see Gen Z reallytaking it and running with it
and creating something whereit's like, this is the playbook
on how to properly use it toread with everybody, versus just
the general, you know, "In theever-evolving world of" type
content.
Claudia Costello (12:38):
Yeah, no. I mean, I use it every day for
kind of just brainstorming. It'sso helpful to brainstorm ideas
and specifically, like titles orsocial media, copy, that sort of
thing. It is honestly alifesaver. It's great.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (12:53):
Yeah, and I think because, you know, the
with the mindset I, at leastI've seen with my students, who
are Gen Z years, there isn't afear of the technology. It's
rather, how can I add that as atoolkit to my tool? So there
isn't the fear of like, oh, it'sgoing to take my job, rather,
okay, how can I use this to makemy job easier and help overall?
(13:13):
Right? You're it makes it easierand it helps with the the amount
of work you can do in a shortperiod of time. Why not? Yeah,
right.
Claudia Costello (13:24):
100%
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (13:26):
Love it.
Love everything about it. Allright. So we talked about
mentorship. You said you had areally great mentor who helped
you to understand the industry abit better when you were looking
for jobs and that sort of thing.
How important do you feel thatmentorship with young PR
professionals is and how wouldyou recommend them finding and
building that relationship?
Because usually it can bedaunting. Yeah,
Claudia Costello (13:47):
Yeah, I think mentorship. Mentorship is a huge
part of how I got into theindustry and have managed to
build so many connections withdifferent PR leaders in Colorado
and nationwide. If you're inschool, I recommend looking to
your professors for mentoring.
Mentorship. Sorry, let me reanswer that. No worries. I get
tongue tied on that word forsome reason. Can you re ask the
(14:08):
question?
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (14:11):
Yeah, for sure. So how important is
mentorship to people who arejust entering the field or who
are young PR professionals, andhow would you recommend that
they sort of go and build thoserelationships.
Claudia Costello (14:23):
I think mentorship is a huge part of how
I got into the industry and havemanaged to build my connections
with so many PR leaders inColorado and nationwide. If
you're in school, I definitelyrecommend looking to your
professors for mentorship. It'stheir job to support you, and
chances are, they have a largenetwork of prior students who
can they can connect you withthose prior students who have
(14:46):
built their careers already. Ithink also for those who have
just landed their first role inPR, the easiest way to find a
mentor is just by looking toyour peers at your company. Find
someone who is excelling attheir role and. Look to them for
advice and guidance on how toexcel in your role. Mentorship
definitely does not have to be aformal process. Also, I've had
(15:09):
so many mentors in my careerthat don't even know that
they've been my mentor, as wellas formal mentors who I email
all the time and just askgeneral questions. It's it
really is such a broad thing.
And I feel like people try andfocus on, oh, my God, I need one
mentor who will do this for me.
And that's just not the case.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (15:31):
Yeah. And I think the other avenue that
students or young professionalseither feel it's daunting or
don't take advantage of, isnetworking like networking
events and that sort of thing,where they could find it. So for
yourself, how has yournetworking adventure or journey
being like and what tips wouldyou provide to somebody who's
(15:53):
looking to network but reallymake it an authentic networking
experience where they'rebuilding relationships with
either young other young PRprofessionals, or those who they
could, you know, potentially betheir mentors or provide
assistance and guidance.
Claudia Costello (16:06):
Like I said earlier, I was in PRSSA in
college, and I think that thatis probably the easiest way for
PR students to network withother PR students and
professionals in the industry.
It was seriously so easy tojoin, and meetings were
optional, which was greatbecause I wasn't able to attend
(16:27):
every meeting, obviously, as abusy college student. And then
as I graduated, I transitionedinto the PRSA group, which is
just the Public RelationsSociety of America, and I think
that that has helped me toconnect again with more agency
leaders. I've attended a fewevents. They recently had an
influencer event that includedlocal Denver influencers, and
(16:51):
you got to hear kind of theirside of how they work with PR
teams, which I thought wasreally interesting. And then, so
yeah, just joining local PRgroups, or if you're a student,
see what kind of groups areavailable at your university.
And then also in-person meetingshave been the best way for me,
(17:13):
personally, to build meaningfulrelationships in the industry. I
think since the pandemic, we'vekind of forgotten how important
it is to meet with people inperson and to form those genuine
relationships. It has seriouslybeen great. And when you meet
with someone in person, it justit shows a different side of
(17:33):
both your personalities, Ithink. And then the last one is
probably the easiest, whichwould be just connecting with
people on LinkedIn and joininggroups like The PR Habitat and
building relationships throughonline communities. I think
joining those groups is great,but it's what you're, what you
(17:54):
make of them, and connectingwith people is great, and what
you it's what you make of them,even if it's just like, Hey, I
saw you do this. I'd love tochat for 30 minutes. That person
will remember you forever,honestly. And I think that they
can be instrumental, maybe inthe future of your career. Maybe
they can't help you right now,but in 10 years, who knows?
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:18):
Yeah, and I love the fact that you mentioned
that you know, with thepandemic, the networking side of
things, people sort of gotrusty, or just didn't even get
the opportunity to try it outfor the first time. So now we're
getting back into the swing ofthings. I remember going to the
IABC World Conference when itwas back in person after the
pandemic. And these are, youknow, people who have been in
the industry for many, manyyears and have done a bunch of
(18:40):
networking and conferences, andeveryone was just like, I forget
how to do this.
Claudia Costello (18:45):
Yeah, it's hard.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:47):
It's a skill set you need. It takes
practice. And you know, with mystudents, we'll go to because
we're based in Canada, there'sthe Canadian Public Relations
Society or IABC/Toronto, herelocally. And what we do is, I
will take them and I say youhave to talk to three new
people. That's all I ask you toand it can be about, you know,
nice shirt. Oh, thank you somuch, right? It doesn't
(19:08):
necessarily have to be about PR,but I want the practice of,
like, breaking the ice andhaving that conversation, and
watching them grow from event toevent to event is always
something heartwarming for me,because it's like, okay, look,
they're growing their wings,they're flying. They're doing
it. But it's very intimidating.
But it's also nice to know thatfor those of us who've done it
quite a bit, it's also nervewracking and daunting and
(19:31):
intimidating as well, becausewhat if we say the wrong thing?
What if, you know? What if we gothere and it's like, oh, we
either overdressed,underdressed, forgotten business
cards and all this stuff. We maybe thinking of different things,
but we're also sort of sittingthere going, Okay, we're doing
this right? Well, we're gettinginto the networking. So
everyone's sort of on the sameplaying field. And I think for
new practitioners in particular,don't be afraid to be nervous.
(19:54):
It's okay. We were all there.
We've all been there. We allwent there. Again after the
pandemic. So we're all, we'reall in this together.
Claudia Costello (20:04):
Yeah, I totally agree. And I mean, I
don't want to sit here and saythat it's easy for me, because
it's not easy to go to these inperson events. I think you said
it best. Now it's a differenttype of hard. Where it is the is
my outfit correct? What if I saysomething to the wrong person,
that sort of thing. But I mean,in person events are awesome,
(20:26):
and I love them, and I thinkthat they are so instrumental in
building relationships.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (20:31):
Yeah, we PR and lattes in August, held the
PR & Tacos event. It was anetworking event, but we had
food involved and feedback thatcame not just like finger foods,
but it was like, we have legittacos and a bunch of appetizers,
like, go enjoy their seats. Takea seat at a random table, meet
people. And a lot of folks cameback and said, the fact that it
(20:53):
was an actual guess meal, if youwill, the food helped break the
awkwardness, because it could belike good food, right, or, like,
bad food was, luckily, was goodfood. But, you know, they could
have those conversations andsort of ease into, like, Oh, can
I sit here and then have thoseconversations? So I think also
picking the right networkingevents to sort of get you over
(21:15):
that fear, or that initial, howdo I engage with people? And
then, you know, picking maybeone every couple of weeks or
every couple of months, andsaying, Okay, I'm going to go to
this one now, and I want to trysomething new, or I'm going to
do this and just expanding andseeing which ones you like,
which ones you don't, right?
Because they're not all going tobe a perfect fit. Um, but
overall, as long as you get outthere and you network, you know,
(21:35):
that's, that's the big thing,I'm, like you said, whether it's
online or in person, just startdoing it.
Claudia Costello (21:43):
Yeah, I think just building your network is,
yeah, the biggest thingespecially is you're
transitioning from the academicworld to the business world.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (21:52):
Yeah, exactly. All right, let's move
into sort of your tips andtricks for breaking into the
business. What are some of themisconceptions that you think of
the PR industry that potentiallyyoung PR professional
professionals should be awareof.
Claudia Costello (22:09):
One of the biggest misconceptions is that
PR is just marketing or justsocial media. I think as I've
built my career in publicrelations, I've realized that it
encompasses aspects of both andis also so much more. It's about
forming those relationships withcustomers and journalists and
(22:30):
every stakeholder involved, andbuilding the image and
reputation of a brand.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (22:34):
And what resources, whether it be books,
podcasts, online courses, groupslike you mentioned, and we're
going to talk more about The PRHabitat shortly. But what would
you recommend somebody who'sjust starting out in PR to
either read, listen to join thatsort of thing?
Unknown (22:49):
I love Coffee With A Journalist. It is my go to
podcast, and it's so great forsomeone who's just starting out
in PR and looking to build thatmedia relations expertise. A
little about the podcast is itinterviews journalists and gives
tips and tricks specific to thejournalists being interviewed. I
also tend to listen to podcastsfrom top journalists. So on with
(23:13):
Kara Swisher is a good one, andthen TechCrunch has a bunch. But
I also I listen to the EquityPodcast the most frequently.
Outside of that, I wouldrecommend reading anything and
everything about the specificindustry you work in, whether
you're in house or on the agencyside. Like me, I am subscribed
to, I'm not joking, probably 30plus newsletters that I receive
(23:36):
in my inbox every singlemorning, and I at least skim
every single one of them. Ithink some of the good
communications newsletters arethe Axios Communicators
newsletter, and then also OnBackground by Tonya and Emily.
It's a substack newsletter, butit kind of just provides
information about journalistsleaving their jobs where they're
(23:58):
headed, events, awards, it's, itkind of just wraps up everything
that you need to know.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (24:05):
Yeah, love that. Love that. And one other
resource that you mentioned, andI just want to, like, hammer
that home, where you said, readanything and everything about
your industry. I know students,when they learn about media
monitoring, like, oh, it justseems so boring and so dull. And
when it's an assignment like, ohmy goodness, and you get all the
(24:25):
like, you know, it's not themost glamorous in PR, but I will
say, when I started out in PR,media monitoring was the best
thing I ever did. You know, notjust about the industry that I'm
in, but for my client, who aretheir competitors? What are they
doing? What are the big trendsor insights of that are
happening within that particularindustry for my clients, so I
(24:46):
could be that subject matterexpert, almost for them, from a
PR perspective, saying, This iswhat's happening in the news,
what people are talking about.
This is what we need to pitch.
This is what we need to do. Thisis what we can, you know,
promote so on and so forth. Andit. And it was until, like, from
agency to going in house. Itwasn't until where I worked in
house, they were like, okay, soyou're a little too senior to do
(25:08):
this, and we're gonna rip itfrom your hands. And I was so
sad. Like I was a manager, andI'm like, I still want to do it.
Like, no, no, let somebody elsedo it. It's okay. You have other
things to do. And I was like,Oh, but I love it, absolutely
love it. To this day. Still doit for myself, just you know, I
love it because you learn somuch.
Claudia Costello (25:26):
I think as when I first started out, like
you said, media monitoring wasthe easiest way for me to become
that subject matter expert, andit helped me prove my worth,
like we were talking aboutearlier, I could just say
something like that about aclient that nobody else had
known because they weren'tmonitoring the media. And it was
(25:48):
so I mean, to this day, samething. I love doing it, and I
have no problem with it, and ithelps me, especially when we're
starting out on a new client, tounderstand the industry better.
And it just really is. It's ahidden gem. I would say, as far
as learning how to do things, itis, like, the biggest, the
(26:10):
biggest help.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (26:11):
Agreed, agreed. I love that you said
that I'm gonna, like, grab thatlittle piece and share it to my
students and be like when wecomplain about media monitoring.
This is why it's important. Soyou mentioned newsletters and
the podcasts and, you know, wejust talked about media
monitoring. How else do you staycurrent with industry trends and
(26:31):
news, especially with so muchit's but when you're an agency
side, you may have six or sevenclients. They're in different
areas of the same sector, sothere could be a little bit
niche. How do you ensure thatyou're staying on top of those
trends in that news? And whatrole does continuous learning
play in your career developmentwith all this.
Claudia Costello (26:52):
I think I take probably 30 to 45 minutes every
single morning going throughthose newsletters I'm subscribed
to as well as I have Googlealerts set up for every single
client and their competitors, soI can just quickly scroll
through those Google Alerts andsee if there's anything big
going on in the industry, andmake sure I'm not missing out on
(27:12):
any important news or reading.
And as far as continuouslearning, when I first started
out in PR, one of my mentorstold me that if I wasn't
learning something new everysingle day, I wasn't doing my
job. And to this day, Icompletely agree with the
sentiment, which is kind of whenshe first told me that I was a
little nervous. I was like, howmuch can I possibly learn? But
(27:32):
it is so true and continuouslearning has also played such a
huge role in my careerdevelopment. Since I keep up
with industry trends andstories, I'm able to jump in on
calls and answer questions thatclients have and provide input
during those importantconversations. It's helped me to
grow in my position. It's helpedme as I've excelled in my roles
(27:55):
and gotten promoted andeverything, and on the opposite
end of that, I've also seenpeople kind of fall off and stay
stagnant in their roles becausethey don't understand certain
topics, and because of that,they aren't able to bring those
new ideas to the table.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (28:12):
Yeah, very, very true. And I love that. Your
mentor said, if you're notlearning something new every
day, then you're not doing yourjob. I always say, if you're not
learning something new everyday. You're not You're not
getting the most out of thiscareer. And also, if you're
doing the same stuff every day,you're not getting the most out
of your career. I find whetheryou're in house or at an agency,
(28:32):
there's always something newthat will throw off the mundane
of a day, right? And if that'snot happening, then how can you
make that happen. It's sort ofhow I see it right. Like, is
there an idea that you want tosort of run with and sort of see
how it goes? You know, is theresomething else you could be
learning to add to your skillset, that sort of thing? So I
(28:53):
love that you said that.
Absolutely love that you saidthat. But let's get to the like,
the exciting thing for me aboutthis whole conversation. So, The
PR Habitat. I stumbled acrossthis on LinkedIn when I was
looking for information that Ican provide my students about,
you know, organizations,networks, that sort of thing,
that could help them with theircareer, or at least provide them
(29:13):
insights and a support group, ifanything about PR and
communications and just, youknow, getting into it, because
it is a struggle, like you saidat the beginning of this call,
right? It is a it. The landscapehas changed a bit. Um, budgets
are getting a bit smaller, and,you know, it can be very
(29:34):
difficult to get in. So when Isaw The PR Habitat, and it's
focused particularly on GenZers. I was like, Oh, this is
amazing, absolutely amazing. Sofor those of you who aren't
aware, and you will be aware bythe end of this, and we'll share
links in the description of thispodcast as well, so you can
follow them. The PR Habitat isdescribed as a community for
(29:54):
young PR professionals, right?
So what was it that inspired thecreation of this group and what
are its core values?
Claudia Costello (30:03):
I can't speak for everyone on the leadership
but the reason I wanted to takea leadership position within the
PR habitat and get involved wasto expand the reach of sharing
resources with students. Soexactly what you were looking
for. I can't tell you how manytimes I've sat down with PR
students, and they're completelylost on what to do post grad.
(30:25):
And I think LinkedIn, while it'shelpful, can be overwhelming if
you don't even know where tostart. So our LinkedIn group
specifically is a great way forstudents and early career
professionals to get connected.
We've all been in that positionpost grad, and the goal of the
group is kind of to make thetransition from education to
industry a little bit easier foreveryone. The core values at The
Hab would be communityauthenticity and diversity. I
(30:50):
think at The PR Habitatcommunity seriously means
everything. Our growth has beentremendous so far, and we've
been able to connect people witheach other, and it's also just a
safe space for people to postinformative content about
breaking into the industry. Weprovide job listings and career
(31:11):
opportunities. Recent successes,that's been a really big one in
the community, is professionalsposting some client wins they've
had, and also just finding likeminded professionals.
Authenticity is also reallyimportant. We want community
members to reflect diversevoices in the role at large. The
PR industry is changing, likeyou said earlier, especially
(31:33):
with the rise of social mediaand digital and we want to
expand the idea of whatspecifically makes someone a PR
pro. I think that. I guess thisalso falls under diversity, and
you can see it firsthand withinour leadership board, everyone
deserves a voice in PR, and wekind of want to provide a
community for that, where anyoneis welcome. We have seen so much
(31:54):
change within PR, and I'venoticed that a lot of the people
I work with and I talk to maybedidn't major in public
relations, but they're like,this is something I want to do.
I've seen sociology majors,psychology majors. It's not
just...public relations is notjust for people who majored in
(32:15):
communications or PR anymore.
It's kind of broadened out. AndI think The Hab is just a place
where anyone who's interested inPR can come and explore more of
what it's like and how to breakinto the industry.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (32:32):
And how does The Hab you said The Hab?
So I'm gonna say that because itjust sounds cool. So how does
The PR Habitat look to sort ofclose that industry gap between
being in the industry andacademia, right? Yes. Why is it
important for the future of PRto do this?
Claudia Costello (32:52):
Yeah, I said it at least a few times in this
podcast, and everyone knows it'sdifficult to make that
transition. I didn't really knowwhat entry level jobs to apply
for, whether in house or agencywas the right path, or even how
exactly to connect with peopleat the companies I was
interested in working for. Andbecause it's so difficult to
(33:15):
break into the industry, I thinkthat they're missing out on a
lot of talented people andbright minds, and it's so
important for us who have madeit into the industry to help
guide other people in the rightdirection for the future of PR.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (33:31):
No, I definitely agree with that. And
I think there is still very muchthis disconnect between the
industry itself and academia. Ithink some places do better,
better job than others inpreparing the students for how
do you properly use LinkedIn tonetwork, right? Is it just a
spam type situation, or do youproperly, like, sort of vet who
(33:55):
you're going to network with,right? So it's a proper
connection. You've done a bit ofresearch, and it's not this
awkward, like, hey, let'sconnect. Why? PR and your PR.
We're friends now, right? That'snot gonna fly. But also, I think
the whole concept of providingthat connection, if you will,
(34:17):
where it's if you are missingsome of those, those insights or
information, like you said, youfor yourself, like I didn't know
what jobs to apply for. You see,account executive, an account
co-ordinator, or accountspecialist, or specialist, or,
you know, just account. There'sanother phrase that I'm drawing
a blank on, but these differentterminologies, what level is,
(34:39):
what right? And I think that'ssomething, as an educator, you
saying that I was like, I don'tthink I even talk to that with
my students when we doprofessional practice, I just,
you know, look for what'ssupposed to be the lowest one,
specialist or co-ordinator, butdon't really explain more. So
why? Why those are the rolesthey should be looking for, and
(34:59):
why? Might change from eitheragency to agency, or even
in-house to agency. They couldbe the same rule, just different
names. So I think you, you'vejust given me like a light bulb
moment. I'm going to change allmy lecture slides for next
semester. But I appreciate that,but that insight as well. I
think from an academic side, weneed to find ways to also help
(35:23):
bridge that gap, so like askingour students or going to or
places like The PR Habitat tosay, Hey, this is where we're
at. How can we do a better job?
How can we help alleviate thegap, or make that gap
significantly smaller within ourclassroom, so that there is more
opportunity for them to reallyget out there once they graduate
(35:45):
and thrive, versus saying, Okay,so now what, how do I do this,
right? So thank you so much forsaying that I for me as a as a
teacher, very much appreciated.
Claudia Costello (35:59):
Of course, and also The Hab is not only for,
like you said, it's not only forGen Z to post if, if older
people come in and havequestions on how they can help
assist Gen Z Oh, my God. I'msure you'd get 20 plus comments
from Gen Zers saying you shoulddo this, or you should do that.
It is just, I think it's more tobuild up how we will shape the
(36:22):
future of the PR industry.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (36:25):
I love that because you are that that's what
Gen Z is here to do. It's toshape the future of what PR will
be all about down the line. Soyou know, when we think about
all this, and you know, thereare going to be Gen Zers who are
listening to this. There aregoing to be people who are more
senior in their careerslistening to this, what would be
one tip or one piece of advicethat you'd give someone starting
(36:47):
out in PR that you wish you hadknown when you started? And what
is one piece of advice you wouldgive to those already in the
industry when it comes to GenZ's entering the workforce?
Claudia Costello (36:59):
One tip I would give and I think this goes
across both both groups, is toread, read, read. And when
you're done reading and learningabout a subject, read some more.
You can never, you canseriously, never know too much
about a topic or industry,especially when your job as a PR
professional is to tell storiesabout that subject. I think
(37:22):
reading and learning are theonly things that will make you
an expert on a subject, andthey're so, so important in
development for PR professionalswho are first starting out, and
also for leaders in the PR worldto help get those professionals
who are just starting out to thenext level.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (37:42):
So what is you know, to wrap it up, what is
the one thing that you think theindustry needs to improve on as
a whole?
Claudia Costello (37:50):
I think as an industry, we need to get better
at opening doors for aspiringprofessionals and to help get
them into the industry. Thereare so many opportunities once
you're in, it's just so hard tobreak into it. And I've seen it
firsthand where there. I knowstudents who are trying to gain
(38:10):
experience, trying to getinternships, and they just
aren't able to kind of getthere. There aren't resources,
whether it's through theiruniversity or agencies, just not
offering opportunities. And Ijust again, we're missing out on
so many bright minds by beingclosed off and being so hard to
break into. And I think that ifwe're able to open up and
(38:34):
provide even if it's just kindof an intro to PR writing course
as an agency for whoever'sinterested or however we can get
people into the industry isjust, it'll make us so much
better.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (38:50):
Yeah, I would totally agree with you. I
think the gatekeeping is a bigissue, right? It's, you know,
you want people to thrive andsucceed in this, in this line of
work in this industry, and weneed to share the this magic
sauce, the secret sauce, so thatthey can do it too, right? Like,
I think, like you said, offeringthose types of classes, whether
(39:12):
it's through an agency, just toengage people to understand what
it is, and that sort of thing isa fantastic idea. Completely
agree with you. So before I letyou go, this has been a
fantastic chat. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. I really,really appreciate it. I've
learned quite a bit. I hope thelisteners have as well. But
before I let you go, this is PR& Lattes, so I have to ask, what
is your favorite go tocaffeinated beverage?
Claudia Costello (39:37):
I would say, Nothing. Absolutely nothing
beats a neighborhood walk on acrisp morning with a chai latte.
That is my ideal morning. And ifthat could be every morning, I
would do it amazing.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (39:52):
Oh, I love, like the visual of that now, now
I need it to be a little bitcooler outside. Oh, I'm down
with that one. Absolutely loveit. So again. Claudia, thank you
so much for being on today'spodcast. If people want to get
in touch with you or learn moreand get in touch with the PR
habitat, where can they findout?
Claudia Costello (40:07):
Yeah, The PR Habitat is on LinkedIn and
Instagram. On LinkedIn, we haveboth a company page and a group
page. They're both under the PRhabitat. So it shouldn't be too
hard to find. I think anotherthing that's good for aspiring
pros is our company page does aweekly roundup of early PR jobs
every single Wednesday. So lookout for that. And then my own
(40:30):
LinkedIn is just my first andlast name, Claudia Costello. I'm
always around to talk to newpeople and kind of help them,
help guide them on how to breakinto the PR industry. I've only
been in the industry, obviously,for a few years, but I love to
pass on any and all informationand knowledge that I can.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (40:50):
Amazing.
And we'll make sure to put allthose links in the description
of this podcast, so it's easyfor everybody to find and join
The PR Habitat. Again Claudia,thank you so much!
Claudia Costello (40:58):
Thank you.
This was awesome.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (41:01):
You've been listening to the PR & Lattes
podcast. Make sure to subscribewherever you listen to podcasts,
so you can get notified eachweek when a new episode drops.
You can also subscribe to ourweekly newsletter by visiting
our website, prnlatas.com on thewebsite, you'll find our podcast
episodes as well as amazingblogs with new ones being posted
(41:21):
every Monday morning. And ofcourse, make sure to follow us
on social, on Instagram,@PRAndLattes and on LinkedIn.
I've been your host. MatisseHamel-Nelis, thank you so much
for listening, and we'll see younext week with a new latte and
guest. Bye for now you.
Hello and welcome back for Season 5 of PR
& Lattes, the podcast where youcan fill up your cup on
everything PR andcommunications. I'm your host,
Matisse, Hamel-Nelis, and I amthrilled to have you join me
today for a brand new episodeand season. Before we get
started, make sure you subscribeto this podcast wherever you're
listening to it, to get notifiedeach week during the season when
(00:24):
a new episode drops. You canalso subscribe to our newsletter
by visiting our website, PRAndLattes.com. On the website,
you'll find our podcastepisodes, plus our amazing blogs
with new ones being uploadedevery Monday morning. And of
course, make sure you'refollowing us on Instagram at
@PRAndLattes and on LinkedIn, PR& Lattes. On today's episode,
(00:47):
I'm chatting with ClaudiaCostello, a Senior Account
Executive at 104 West in Denver,and the community manager of The
PR Habitat. She is aself-proclaimed media relations
expert and is passionate abouttelling stories for B2B tech
companies. I'm so excited toshare my chat with her when we
talked about PR, Gen Z and, ofcourse, The PR Habitat. So grab
(01:09):
your latte, sit back and enjoy.
I am so excited for today'sepisode. It's an area of
communications and PR that Ithink we're sleeping on and I'm
excited to have our guest,Claudia, here from The PR
Habitat to talk to us today.
Welcome Claudia.
Claudia Costello (01:27):
Hi. I'm so excited to be here.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (01:29):
Oh, this is gonna be so much fun again. The
Gen Z era of communicatorscoming into the fore of our
profession is such a I thinkit's a breath of fresh air,
different perspectives, justdifferent viewpoints. But at the
same time, there are a lot ofchallenges and things like that
happening around it. So I'm soexcited to get to talk to you
(01:50):
about your perspectives andinsights and how we as a
profession can grow and embraceand do amazing things together.
So let's dive into it. So let'sstart off easy, easy, easy
question, hopefully tell meabout yourself and your own PR
journey.
Claudia Costello (02:06):
Okay, so I went into college at the
University of Colorado, Boulder,completely undecided. I had no
idea what I wanted to do, and Ijust I kind of knew I gravitated
toward English and writinglanguage based subjects, and
they came natural to me. So Itook one intro to advertising PR
and media design class during myfreshman year, and it just kind
(02:29):
of clicked, this is what I wantto do. And I think I got really
lucky in that sense, where Ifound something really early on
in college that was interestingto me, and I just kind of ran
with it throughout my years, Itook the classic writing for PR
strategic communications,research methods, those types of
classes and those just furtheredmy interest. I also joined the
(02:52):
Public Relations Student Societyof America, so PRSSA. And within
their newsletter in my senioryear, I saw an internship in
Denver and decided to apply.
Somehow I landed it, even thoughI was definitely under qualified
and under prepared for theinterview. I think my boss just
saw something in me and mywriting specifically, and that
(03:14):
was the internship started myspring semester of senior year.
So after graduation, I feltsuper prepared, in the sense
that I had, like a writingportfolio from the internship,
my boss connected me with abunch of agency leaders, and I
just kind of had one footforward. So after graduation, I
(03:34):
applied to a ton of techstartups across the U.S. and
agencies just kind of trying toland a job. And I was lucky
enough to land one in Denver at104 West, which is a boutique
strategic communications agency,and we do a lot of work,
specifically with B2B techcompanies and startups.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (03:57):
Awesome, awesome. All right, let's, let's
just dive into it. Let's diveinto the good stuff. And given
the fact that you, you knowrelatively new into the industry
like these, this is aconversation, I think, like all
students and new practitionersneed to listen to. So I'm
excited to get into this. Sonumber one as a Gen Z year
entering the PR industry, whatchallenges have you faced, and
(04:19):
how have you navigated them?
Claudia Costello (04:21):
I think the number one challenge is it's
hard to break into the industry.
It really is hard. I was luckyenough that I had a mentor who
had connections in the industryand was able to kind of connect
me with different agency agencyleaders. It's just really hard
and school prepares youdefinitely. I felt prepared with
(04:43):
writing and AP style, I learnedall of that, but it didn't
prepare me for the types ofroles I needed to apply for.
Specifically, I didn't knowwhether I was applying for
account coordinator roles, moreinternships or. Yeah, honestly,
I probably applied to somesenior account executive roles
just not knowing what I neededto be. I think another challenge
(05:05):
is that when you're the youngestperson at your job, you tend to
be overlooked by leadership andby clients. I've worked really
hard to prove myself over thesepast couple years and show my
worth as a member of the team,especially with clients who I
feel like traditionally, look tothose leadership at the Agency
(05:27):
for guidance.
Matisse Hamel-Neli (05:30):
Interesting.
I feel like that what you saidat the end is also sort of a
strength that you have and thatyou were confident enough to
show your worth and your value,right? Here, a lot of recent
graduates, or some of mystudents who just entered the
industry feeling like, you know,I can't really step on any toes,
or they feel that way wheninstead, it's like, no, you're
just showing your worth. You'reshowing your value. You're
(05:52):
showing your voice and sharingyour thoughts that can
potentially help in a campaignin a way you didn't realize.
Yeah, yeah.
Claudia Costello (06:01):
And I think it definitely takes time to learn
to do that. My first couplemonths, I don't know if I spoke
a word in a single clientmeeting, and that's okay. I was
told by some of the leadershipat my company that if I feel
like I don't have anything tosay, I can just ask a question.
(06:21):
Questions are so important, andthey start conversations, and
that's something that reallyhelps me kind of learn to speak
up and prove my worth.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (06:31):
I love that. I love that. What other
unique strengths do you think,not maybe not just you, but in
general, when it comes to Gen Z,that they bring to the PR
industry? And how do you feelthat they can leverage these
strengths to really sort oflevel up in their success?
Claudia Costello (06:46):
Yeah, I mean, Gen Z is the future of the PR
industry. So I think we bringfresh ideas to the table and
provide those unique point ofviews for clients that our
elders just wouldn't be able tothink of. I think specifically,
we're going to change theindustry for the better. I've
already seen it in my shortthree year career. We're
(07:06):
leveraging social media, othertechnologies, to connect with
journalists and to tell clientsstories. I think the last thing
is, traditional PR is dying, andthe companies that still use it
are kind of falling behind. GenZ is redefining what PR means
for companies.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (07:25):
It's true.
I definitely agree with that,and I think that ties into my
next question really well, interms of the role of digital
digital literacy, as I gettongue tied, the role of digital
literacy and social mediaexpertise, Gen Z have grown up
with digital stuff in theirhands, whether it be a computer,
a cell phone or whatever, andsocial media is just always been
there, like I remember, and I'mgoing to date myself back in
(07:47):
2006 when Facebook was just forcolleges and university
students, and I was able to getin on that. Now people think
Facebook, and they're like, um,little dated. It's fine. So how
has, or how do you see the roleof the digital literacy and
social media expertise evolvingfor Gen Z, PR professionals as
they move forward, given thatthey already have this sort of
(08:10):
innate prowess with it?
Claudia Costello (08:13):
I mean, I think you said it perfectly,
social media has blown up overthe past 10 plus years, and
especially recently, I feel likecompanies have started to
leverage it more to connect withtheir customers and clients.
Companies like Duolingo andWendy's have leveraged it to
build a trustworthy brand, andeven in present day, Kamala
(08:35):
Harris's her campaign forpresident leverages Tiktok in
short form, short form contentto connect with Gen Z. I feel
like social is no longer just aside effort for companies and
within the PR industry initself, it's become its own full
thing. I've seen so many rolescrop up for social media
(08:55):
analysts, social media experts,and I think it's a great
opportunity for us in Gen Zspecifically, because we have
that digital literacy. Whoa, Igot tongue tied too, because we
have the digital literacy tokind of fill those roles and
prove our worth within those Ialso think because we're so
fluent when it comes to thedigital world, we're best suited
(09:17):
to fit these roles, and we havethe most expertise to develop
successful social media content.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (09:23):
And I think, you know, just naturally
because you're using it all thetime. And I jokingly say in
class, you know, oh, the peopleon the Tiktok. I say, the
Tiktok, why not? What I what Ifind really interesting and
fascinating is how quickly if Iask a student, or my students,
to create a campaign that wouldresonate on Tiktok, not
(09:43):
necessarily go viral, because,you know, you never know what's
really going to go viral, right?
But create something that wouldresonate. And the idea is, they
come up with that usually in,you know, most boardrooms, they
would say, oh, that's just alittle too out there. Or, like,
we've tried that. In the past,it wouldn't work. But there's a
spin to it that the Gen Zers areputting on it, that you're like,
(10:04):
No, that could actually work,right? Like mentioned Wendy's,
for example, and Duolingo, whowould have thought that sort of
character, if you will, thatthey've created the personas
that they've created for theirbrand would work in the
professional sense. But that'swho people are looking to to say
that's the type of brand wewant.
Claudia Costello (10:25):
And especially I feel like for Duolingo, their
social media and their marketingand advertising, it worked on
me. I downloaded the app like,yeah.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (10:36):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So from your
perspective, we, you know,digital literacy definitely a
huge, a huge win for Gen Zyears. What other strengths do
you think that they possess thatneeds to be highlighted, needs
to be understood, needs to beappreciated, really, from those
(10:58):
who are, you know, a bit older,even as millennials,
Claudia Costello (11:02):
I would say, along with the digital literacy,
I think just we understandtechnology, and there's so much
development within technology,every single day, I'm seeing a
new, generative AI tool comeout, and that, I think that we
are the generation thatunderstands it the best, and
it's important for our elderswithin the business world to
(11:27):
come to us and look for us foradvice on how to do these
things. I mean, generative AI isso confusing. And I mean ChatGPT
is awesome. I leverage it everyday at work, but I feel like
some of the older people I workwith, even my mom and dad, they
are like, staying away fromChatGPT and not using it to
(11:49):
their advantage, and I feel likethey might fall behind if that's
the case, because it's gonnabecome such a prevalent part of
how we do work every single day.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (11:58):
Yeah, I love that. I love that. I and
you're so right, it's going tobe the Gen Zers who really
appreciate and learn theinsights and nuances of
generative AI to really, youknow, shape what that could be
in a creative sense, in PR andcommunications, versus just
(12:18):
saying, like I've put in aregular prompt write a press
release. It's something regular.
Instead, I can see Gen Z reallytaking it and running with it
and creating something whereit's like, this is the playbook
on how to properly use it toread with everybody, versus just
the general, you know, "In theever-evolving world of" type
content.
Claudia Costello (12:38):
Yeah, no. I mean, I use it every day for
kind of just brainstorming. It'sso helpful to brainstorm ideas
and specifically, like titles orsocial media, copy, that sort of
thing. It is honestly alifesaver. It's great.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (12:53):
Yeah, and I think because, you know, the
with the mindset I, at leastI've seen with my students, who
are Gen Z years, there isn't afear of the technology. It's
rather, how can I add that as atoolkit to my tool? So there
isn't the fear of like, oh, it'sgoing to take my job, rather,
okay, how can I use this to makemy job easier and help overall?
(13:13):
Right? You're it makes it easierand it helps with the the amount
of work you can do in a shortperiod of time. Why not? Yeah,
right.
Claudia Costello (13:24):
100%
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (13:26):
Love it.
Love everything about it. Allright. So we talked about
mentorship. You said you had areally great mentor who helped
you to understand the industry abit better when you were looking
for jobs and that sort of thing.
How important do you feel thatmentorship with young PR
professionals is and how wouldyou recommend them finding and
building that relationship?
Because usually it can bedaunting. Yeah,
Claudia Costello (13:47):
Yeah, I think mentorship. Mentorship is a huge
part of how I got into theindustry and have managed to
build so many connections withdifferent PR leaders in Colorado
and nationwide. If you're inschool, I recommend looking to
your professors for mentoring.
Mentorship. Sorry, let me reanswer that. No worries. I get
tongue tied on that word forsome reason. Can you re ask the
(14:08):
question?
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (14:11):
Yeah, for sure. So how important is
mentorship to people who arejust entering the field or who
are young PR professionals, andhow would you recommend that
they sort of go and build thoserelationships.
Claudia Costello (14:23):
I think mentorship is a huge part of how
I got into the industry and havemanaged to build my connections
with so many PR leaders inColorado and nationwide. If
you're in school, I definitelyrecommend looking to your
professors for mentorship. It'stheir job to support you, and
chances are, they have a largenetwork of prior students who
can they can connect you withthose prior students who have
(14:46):
built their careers already. Ithink also for those who have
just landed their first role inPR, the easiest way to find a
mentor is just by looking toyour peers at your company. Find
someone who is excelling attheir role and. Look to them for
advice and guidance on how toexcel in your role. Mentorship
definitely does not have to be aformal process. Also, I've had
(15:09):
so many mentors in my careerthat don't even know that
they've been my mentor, as wellas formal mentors who I email
all the time and just askgeneral questions. It's it
really is such a broad thing.
And I feel like people try andfocus on, oh, my God, I need one
mentor who will do this for me.
And that's just not the case.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (15:31):
Yeah. And I think the other avenue that
students or young professionalseither feel it's daunting or
don't take advantage of, isnetworking like networking
events and that sort of thing,where they could find it. So for
yourself, how has yournetworking adventure or journey
being like and what tips wouldyou provide to somebody who's
(15:53):
looking to network but reallymake it an authentic networking
experience where they'rebuilding relationships with
either young other young PRprofessionals, or those who they
could, you know, potentially betheir mentors or provide
assistance and guidance.
Claudia Costello (16:06):
Like I said earlier, I was in PRSSA in
college, and I think that thatis probably the easiest way for
PR students to network withother PR students and
professionals in the industry.
It was seriously so easy tojoin, and meetings were
optional, which was greatbecause I wasn't able to attend
(16:27):
every meeting, obviously, as abusy college student. And then
as I graduated, I transitionedinto the PRSA group, which is
just the Public RelationsSociety of America, and I think
that that has helped me toconnect again with more agency
leaders. I've attended a fewevents. They recently had an
influencer event that includedlocal Denver influencers, and
(16:51):
you got to hear kind of theirside of how they work with PR
teams, which I thought wasreally interesting. And then, so
yeah, just joining local PRgroups, or if you're a student,
see what kind of groups areavailable at your university.
And then also in-person meetingshave been the best way for me,
(17:13):
personally, to build meaningfulrelationships in the industry. I
think since the pandemic, we'vekind of forgotten how important
it is to meet with people inperson and to form those genuine
relationships. It has seriouslybeen great. And when you meet
with someone in person, it justit shows a different side of
(17:33):
both your personalities, Ithink. And then the last one is
probably the easiest, whichwould be just connecting with
people on LinkedIn and joininggroups like The PR Habitat and
building relationships throughonline communities. I think
joining those groups is great,but it's what you're, what you
(17:54):
make of them, and connectingwith people is great, and what
you it's what you make of them,even if it's just like, Hey, I
saw you do this. I'd love tochat for 30 minutes. That person
will remember you forever,honestly. And I think that they
can be instrumental, maybe inthe future of your career. Maybe
they can't help you right now,but in 10 years, who knows?
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:18):
Yeah, and I love the fact that you mentioned
that you know, with thepandemic, the networking side of
things, people sort of gotrusty, or just didn't even get
the opportunity to try it outfor the first time. So now we're
getting back into the swing ofthings. I remember going to the
IABC World Conference when itwas back in person after the
pandemic. And these are, youknow, people who have been in
the industry for many, manyyears and have done a bunch of
(18:40):
networking and conferences, andeveryone was just like, I forget
how to do this.
Claudia Costello (18:45):
Yeah, it's hard.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:47):
It's a skill set you need. It takes
practice. And you know, with mystudents, we'll go to because
we're based in Canada, there'sthe Canadian Public Relations
Society or IABC/Toronto, herelocally. And what we do is, I
will take them and I say youhave to talk to three new
people. That's all I ask you toand it can be about, you know,
nice shirt. Oh, thank you somuch, right? It doesn't
(19:08):
necessarily have to be about PR,but I want the practice of,
like, breaking the ice andhaving that conversation, and
watching them grow from event toevent to event is always
something heartwarming for me,because it's like, okay, look,
they're growing their wings,they're flying. They're doing
it. But it's very intimidating.
But it's also nice to know thatfor those of us who've done it
quite a bit, it's also nervewracking and daunting and
(19:31):
intimidating as well, becausewhat if we say the wrong thing?
What if, you know? What if we gothere and it's like, oh, we
either overdressed,underdressed, forgotten business
cards and all this stuff. We maybe thinking of different things,
but we're also sort of sittingthere going, Okay, we're doing
this right? Well, we're gettinginto the networking. So
everyone's sort of on the sameplaying field. And I think for
new practitioners in particular,don't be afraid to be nervous.
(19:54):
It's okay. We were all there.
We've all been there. We allwent there. Again after the
pandemic. So we're all, we'reall in this together.
Claudia Costello (20:04):
Yeah, I totally agree. And I mean, I
don't want to sit here and saythat it's easy for me, because
it's not easy to go to these inperson events. I think you said
it best. Now it's a differenttype of hard. Where it is the is
my outfit correct? What if I saysomething to the wrong person,
that sort of thing. But I mean,in person events are awesome,
(20:26):
and I love them, and I thinkthat they are so instrumental in
building relationships.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (20:31):
Yeah, we PR and lattes in August, held the
PR & Tacos event. It was anetworking event, but we had
food involved and feedback thatcame not just like finger foods,
but it was like, we have legittacos and a bunch of appetizers,
like, go enjoy their seats. Takea seat at a random table, meet
people. And a lot of folks cameback and said, the fact that it
(20:53):
was an actual guess meal, if youwill, the food helped break the
awkwardness, because it could belike good food, right, or, like,
bad food was, luckily, was goodfood. But, you know, they could
have those conversations andsort of ease into, like, Oh, can
I sit here and then have thoseconversations? So I think also
picking the right networkingevents to sort of get you over
(21:15):
that fear, or that initial, howdo I engage with people? And
then, you know, picking maybeone every couple of weeks or
every couple of months, andsaying, Okay, I'm going to go to
this one now, and I want to trysomething new, or I'm going to
do this and just expanding andseeing which ones you like,
which ones you don't, right?
Because they're not all going tobe a perfect fit. Um, but
overall, as long as you get outthere and you network, you know,
(21:35):
that's, that's the big thing,I'm, like you said, whether it's
online or in person, just startdoing it.
Claudia Costello (21:43):
Yeah, I think just building your network is,
yeah, the biggest thingespecially is you're
transitioning from the academicworld to the business world.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (21:52):
Yeah, exactly. All right, let's move
into sort of your tips andtricks for breaking into the
business. What are some of themisconceptions that you think of
the PR industry that potentiallyyoung PR professional
professionals should be awareof.
Claudia Costello (22:09):
One of the biggest misconceptions is that
PR is just marketing or justsocial media. I think as I've
built my career in publicrelations, I've realized that it
encompasses aspects of both andis also so much more. It's about
forming those relationships withcustomers and journalists and
(22:30):
every stakeholder involved, andbuilding the image and
reputation of a brand.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (22:34):
And what resources, whether it be books,
podcasts, online courses, groupslike you mentioned, and we're
going to talk more about The PRHabitat shortly. But what would
you recommend somebody who'sjust starting out in PR to
either read, listen to join thatsort of thing?
Unknown (22:49):
I love Coffee With A Journalist. It is my go to
podcast, and it's so great forsomeone who's just starting out
in PR and looking to build thatmedia relations expertise. A
little about the podcast is itinterviews journalists and gives
tips and tricks specific to thejournalists being interviewed. I
also tend to listen to podcastsfrom top journalists. So on with
(23:13):
Kara Swisher is a good one, andthen TechCrunch has a bunch. But
I also I listen to the EquityPodcast the most frequently.
Outside of that, I wouldrecommend reading anything and
everything about the specificindustry you work in, whether
you're in house or on the agencyside. Like me, I am subscribed
to, I'm not joking, probably 30plus newsletters that I receive
(23:36):
in my inbox every singlemorning, and I at least skim
every single one of them. Ithink some of the good
communications newsletters arethe Axios Communicators
newsletter, and then also OnBackground by Tonya and Emily.
It's a substack newsletter, butit kind of just provides
information about journalistsleaving their jobs where they're
(23:58):
headed, events, awards, it's, itkind of just wraps up everything
that you need to know.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (24:05):
Yeah, love that. Love that. And one other
resource that you mentioned, andI just want to, like, hammer
that home, where you said, readanything and everything about
your industry. I know students,when they learn about media
monitoring, like, oh, it justseems so boring and so dull. And
when it's an assignment like, ohmy goodness, and you get all the
(24:25):
like, you know, it's not themost glamorous in PR, but I will
say, when I started out in PR,media monitoring was the best
thing I ever did. You know, notjust about the industry that I'm
in, but for my client, who aretheir competitors? What are they
doing? What are the big trendsor insights of that are
happening within that particularindustry for my clients, so I
(24:46):
could be that subject matterexpert, almost for them, from a
PR perspective, saying, This iswhat's happening in the news,
what people are talking about.
This is what we need to pitch.
This is what we need to do. Thisis what we can, you know,
promote so on and so forth. Andit. And it was until, like, from
agency to going in house. Itwasn't until where I worked in
house, they were like, okay, soyou're a little too senior to do
(25:08):
this, and we're gonna rip itfrom your hands. And I was so
sad. Like I was a manager, andI'm like, I still want to do it.
Like, no, no, let somebody elsedo it. It's okay. You have other
things to do. And I was like,Oh, but I love it, absolutely
love it. To this day. Still doit for myself, just you know, I
love it because you learn somuch.
Claudia Costello (25:26):
I think as when I first started out, like
you said, media monitoring wasthe easiest way for me to become
that subject matter expert, andit helped me prove my worth,
like we were talking aboutearlier, I could just say
something like that about aclient that nobody else had
known because they weren'tmonitoring the media. And it was
(25:48):
so I mean, to this day, samething. I love doing it, and I
have no problem with it, and ithelps me, especially when we're
starting out on a new client, tounderstand the industry better.
And it just really is. It's ahidden gem. I would say, as far
as learning how to do things, itis, like, the biggest, the
(26:10):
biggest help.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (26:11):
Agreed, agreed. I love that you said
that I'm gonna, like, grab thatlittle piece and share it to my
students and be like when wecomplain about media monitoring.
This is why it's important. Soyou mentioned newsletters and
the podcasts and, you know, wejust talked about media
monitoring. How else do you staycurrent with industry trends and
(26:31):
news, especially with so muchit's but when you're an agency
side, you may have six or sevenclients. They're in different
areas of the same sector, sothere could be a little bit
niche. How do you ensure thatyou're staying on top of those
trends in that news? And whatrole does continuous learning
play in your career developmentwith all this.
Claudia Costello (26:52):
I think I take probably 30 to 45 minutes every
single morning going throughthose newsletters I'm subscribed
to as well as I have Googlealerts set up for every single
client and their competitors, soI can just quickly scroll
through those Google Alerts andsee if there's anything big
going on in the industry, andmake sure I'm not missing out on
(27:12):
any important news or reading.
And as far as continuouslearning, when I first started
out in PR, one of my mentorstold me that if I wasn't
learning something new everysingle day, I wasn't doing my
job. And to this day, Icompletely agree with the
sentiment, which is kind of whenshe first told me that I was a
little nervous. I was like, howmuch can I possibly learn? But
(27:32):
it is so true and continuouslearning has also played such a
huge role in my careerdevelopment. Since I keep up
with industry trends andstories, I'm able to jump in on
calls and answer questions thatclients have and provide input
during those importantconversations. It's helped me to
grow in my position. It's helpedme as I've excelled in my roles
(27:55):
and gotten promoted andeverything, and on the opposite
end of that, I've also seenpeople kind of fall off and stay
stagnant in their roles becausethey don't understand certain
topics, and because of that,they aren't able to bring those
new ideas to the table.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (28:12):
Yeah, very, very true. And I love that. Your
mentor said, if you're notlearning something new every
day, then you're not doing yourjob. I always say, if you're not
learning something new everyday. You're not You're not
getting the most out of thiscareer. And also, if you're
doing the same stuff every day,you're not getting the most out
of your career. I find whetheryou're in house or at an agency,
(28:32):
there's always something newthat will throw off the mundane
of a day, right? And if that'snot happening, then how can you
make that happen. It's sort ofhow I see it right. Like, is
there an idea that you want tosort of run with and sort of see
how it goes? You know, is theresomething else you could be
learning to add to your skillset, that sort of thing? So I
(28:53):
love that you said that.
Absolutely love that you saidthat. But let's get to the like,
the exciting thing for me aboutthis whole conversation. So, The
PR Habitat. I stumbled acrossthis on LinkedIn when I was
looking for information that Ican provide my students about,
you know, organizations,networks, that sort of thing,
that could help them with theircareer, or at least provide them
(29:13):
insights and a support group, ifanything about PR and
communications and just, youknow, getting into it, because
it is a struggle, like you saidat the beginning of this call,
right? It is a it. The landscapehas changed a bit. Um, budgets
are getting a bit smaller, and,you know, it can be very
(29:34):
difficult to get in. So when Isaw The PR Habitat, and it's
focused particularly on GenZers. I was like, Oh, this is
amazing, absolutely amazing. Sofor those of you who aren't
aware, and you will be aware bythe end of this, and we'll share
links in the description of thispodcast as well, so you can
follow them. The PR Habitat isdescribed as a community for
(29:54):
young PR professionals, right?
So what was it that inspired thecreation of this group and what
are its core values?
Claudia Costello (30:03):
I can't speak for everyone on the leadership
but the reason I wanted to takea leadership position within the
PR habitat and get involved wasto expand the reach of sharing
resources with students. Soexactly what you were looking
for. I can't tell you how manytimes I've sat down with PR
students, and they're completelylost on what to do post grad.
(30:25):
And I think LinkedIn, while it'shelpful, can be overwhelming if
you don't even know where tostart. So our LinkedIn group
specifically is a great way forstudents and early career
professionals to get connected.
We've all been in that positionpost grad, and the goal of the
group is kind of to make thetransition from education to
industry a little bit easier foreveryone. The core values at The
Hab would be communityauthenticity and diversity. I
(30:50):
think at The PR Habitatcommunity seriously means
everything. Our growth has beentremendous so far, and we've
been able to connect people witheach other, and it's also just a
safe space for people to postinformative content about
breaking into the industry. Weprovide job listings and career
(31:11):
opportunities. Recent successes,that's been a really big one in
the community, is professionalsposting some client wins they've
had, and also just finding likeminded professionals.
Authenticity is also reallyimportant. We want community
members to reflect diversevoices in the role at large. The
PR industry is changing, likeyou said earlier, especially
(31:33):
with the rise of social mediaand digital and we want to
expand the idea of whatspecifically makes someone a PR
pro. I think that. I guess thisalso falls under diversity, and
you can see it firsthand withinour leadership board, everyone
deserves a voice in PR, and wekind of want to provide a
community for that, where anyoneis welcome. We have seen so much
(31:54):
change within PR, and I'venoticed that a lot of the people
I work with and I talk to maybedidn't major in public
relations, but they're like,this is something I want to do.
I've seen sociology majors,psychology majors. It's not
just...public relations is notjust for people who majored in
(32:15):
communications or PR anymore.
It's kind of broadened out. AndI think The Hab is just a place
where anyone who's interested inPR can come and explore more of
what it's like and how to breakinto the industry.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (32:32):
And how does The Hab you said The Hab?
So I'm gonna say that because itjust sounds cool. So how does
The PR Habitat look to sort ofclose that industry gap between
being in the industry andacademia, right? Yes. Why is it
important for the future of PRto do this?
Claudia Costello (32:52):
Yeah, I said it at least a few times in this
podcast, and everyone knows it'sdifficult to make that
transition. I didn't really knowwhat entry level jobs to apply
for, whether in house or agencywas the right path, or even how
exactly to connect with peopleat the companies I was
interested in working for. Andbecause it's so difficult to
(33:15):
break into the industry, I thinkthat they're missing out on a
lot of talented people andbright minds, and it's so
important for us who have madeit into the industry to help
guide other people in the rightdirection for the future of PR.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (33:31):
No, I definitely agree with that. And
I think there is still very muchthis disconnect between the
industry itself and academia. Ithink some places do better,
better job than others inpreparing the students for how
do you properly use LinkedIn tonetwork, right? Is it just a
spam type situation, or do youproperly, like, sort of vet who
(33:55):
you're going to network with,right? So it's a proper
connection. You've done a bit ofresearch, and it's not this
awkward, like, hey, let'sconnect. Why? PR and your PR.
We're friends now, right? That'snot gonna fly. But also, I think
the whole concept of providingthat connection, if you will,
(34:17):
where it's if you are missingsome of those, those insights or
information, like you said, youfor yourself, like I didn't know
what jobs to apply for. You see,account executive, an account
co-ordinator, or accountspecialist, or specialist, or,
you know, just account. There'sanother phrase that I'm drawing
a blank on, but these differentterminologies, what level is,
(34:39):
what right? And I think that'ssomething, as an educator, you
saying that I was like, I don'tthink I even talk to that with
my students when we doprofessional practice, I just,
you know, look for what'ssupposed to be the lowest one,
specialist or co-ordinator, butdon't really explain more. So
why? Why those are the rolesthey should be looking for, and
(34:59):
why? Might change from eitheragency to agency, or even
in-house to agency. They couldbe the same rule, just different
names. So I think you, you'vejust given me like a light bulb
moment. I'm going to change allmy lecture slides for next
semester. But I appreciate that,but that insight as well. I
think from an academic side, weneed to find ways to also help
(35:23):
bridge that gap, so like askingour students or going to or
places like The PR Habitat tosay, Hey, this is where we're
at. How can we do a better job?
How can we help alleviate thegap, or make that gap
significantly smaller within ourclassroom, so that there is more
opportunity for them to reallyget out there once they graduate
(35:45):
and thrive, versus saying, Okay,so now what, how do I do this,
right? So thank you so much forsaying that I for me as a as a
teacher, very much appreciated.
Claudia Costello (35:59):
Of course, and also The Hab is not only for,
like you said, it's not only forGen Z to post if, if older
people come in and havequestions on how they can help
assist Gen Z Oh, my God. I'msure you'd get 20 plus comments
from Gen Zers saying you shoulddo this, or you should do that.
It is just, I think it's more tobuild up how we will shape the
(36:22):
future of the PR industry.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (36:25):
I love that because you are that that's what
Gen Z is here to do. It's toshape the future of what PR will
be all about down the line. Soyou know, when we think about
all this, and you know, thereare going to be Gen Zers who are
listening to this. There aregoing to be people who are more
senior in their careerslistening to this, what would be
one tip or one piece of advicethat you'd give someone starting
(36:47):
out in PR that you wish you hadknown when you started? And what
is one piece of advice you wouldgive to those already in the
industry when it comes to GenZ's entering the workforce?
Claudia Costello (36:59):
One tip I would give and I think this goes
across both both groups, is toread, read, read. And when
you're done reading and learningabout a subject, read some more.
You can never, you canseriously, never know too much
about a topic or industry,especially when your job as a PR
professional is to tell storiesabout that subject. I think
(37:22):
reading and learning are theonly things that will make you
an expert on a subject, andthey're so, so important in
development for PR professionalswho are first starting out, and
also for leaders in the PR worldto help get those professionals
who are just starting out to thenext level.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (37:42):
So what is you know, to wrap it up, what is
the one thing that you think theindustry needs to improve on as
a whole?
Claudia Costello (37:50):
I think as an industry, we need to get better
at opening doors for aspiringprofessionals and to help get
them into the industry. Thereare so many opportunities once
you're in, it's just so hard tobreak into it. And I've seen it
firsthand where there. I knowstudents who are trying to gain
(38:10):
experience, trying to getinternships, and they just
aren't able to kind of getthere. There aren't resources,
whether it's through theiruniversity or agencies, just not
offering opportunities. And Ijust again, we're missing out on
so many bright minds by beingclosed off and being so hard to
break into. And I think that ifwe're able to open up and
(38:34):
provide even if it's just kindof an intro to PR writing course
as an agency for whoever'sinterested or however we can get
people into the industry isjust, it'll make us so much
better.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (38:50):
Yeah, I would totally agree with you. I
think the gatekeeping is a bigissue, right? It's, you know,
you want people to thrive andsucceed in this, in this line of
work in this industry, and weneed to share the this magic
sauce, the secret sauce, so thatthey can do it too, right? Like,
I think, like you said, offeringthose types of classes, whether
(39:12):
it's through an agency, just toengage people to understand what
it is, and that sort of thing isa fantastic idea. Completely
agree with you. So before I letyou go, this has been a
fantastic chat. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. I really,really appreciate it. I've
learned quite a bit. I hope thelisteners have as well. But
before I let you go, this is PR& Lattes, so I have to ask, what
is your favorite go tocaffeinated beverage?
Claudia Costello (39:37):
I would say, Nothing. Absolutely nothing
beats a neighborhood walk on acrisp morning with a chai latte.
That is my ideal morning. And ifthat could be every morning, I
would do it amazing.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (39:52):
Oh, I love, like the visual of that now, now
I need it to be a little bitcooler outside. Oh, I'm down
with that one. Absolutely loveit. So again. Claudia, thank you
so much for being on today'spodcast. If people want to get
in touch with you or learn moreand get in touch with the PR
habitat, where can they findout?
Claudia Costello (40:07):
Yeah, The PR Habitat is on LinkedIn and
Instagram. On LinkedIn, we haveboth a company page and a group
page. They're both under the PRhabitat. So it shouldn't be too
hard to find. I think anotherthing that's good for aspiring
pros is our company page does aweekly roundup of early PR jobs
every single Wednesday. So lookout for that. And then my own
(40:30):
LinkedIn is just my first andlast name, Claudia Costello. I'm
always around to talk to newpeople and kind of help them,
help guide them on how to breakinto the PR industry. I've only
been in the industry, obviously,for a few years, but I love to
pass on any and all informationand knowledge that I can.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (40:50):
Amazing.
And we'll make sure to put allthose links in the description
of this podcast, so it's easyfor everybody to find and join
The PR Habitat. Again Claudia,thank you so much!
Claudia Costello (40:58):
Thank you.
This was awesome.
Matisse Hamel-Nelis (41:01):
You've been listening to the PR & Lattes
podcast. Make sure to subscribewherever you listen to podcasts,
so you can get notified eachweek when a new episode drops.
You can also subscribe to ourweekly newsletter by visiting
our website, prnlatas.com on thewebsite, you'll find our podcast
episodes as well as amazingblogs with new ones being posted
(41:21):
every Monday morning. And ofcourse, make sure to follow us
on social, on Instagram,@PRAndLattes and on LinkedIn.
I've been your host. MatisseHamel-Nelis, thank you so much
for listening, and we'll see younext week with a new latte and
guest. Bye for now you.
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