A latte with Jacquie Severs

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In this episode, Matisse chats with Jacquie Severs, Durham Region's Manager of Marketing and Tourism, about all things tourism PR.

About Jacquie Severs
Jacquie Severs is the Manager of Marketing and Tourism for the Regional Municipality of Durham's economic development and tourism division, known as Invest Durham and Durham Tourism. In this capacity, she champions Durham Region, Ontario, Canada's exceptional value proposition for businesses, attracts visitors, fosters downtown growth, and cultivates Durham's creative communities.

With over 20 years of award-winning marketing experience, Jacquie has a track record of developing and promoting brands across diverse sectors, including fashion, home décor, craft beer, and the museum industry. Her knack for storytelling has been shared in various publications, with one series earning her the distinction of the 2018 Ontario Community Newspapers Association's Columnist of the Year.

Drawing from her educational background spanning George Brown College, the University of Guelph, the University of Waterloo, and Durham College, Jacquie is committed to lifelong learning. Presently, she is pursuing an innovative Master of Arts in Place Branding from Middlesex University, U.K. Passionate about exploring emerging social media platforms and learning to write the most effective AI prompts, Jacquie is deeply engaged in community initiatives and enjoys chatting about the impact of marketing on our perceptions, from the nuances of typography to the PR strategies of global figures.

Follow Jacquie:
LinkedIn: Jacquie Severs
Instagram: @JacquieSevers
X (formerly Twitter): @JacquieSevers

Connect with PR & Lattes
Website: PR & Lattes
Instagram: @PRAndLattes
Host: @MatisseNelis

Episode Transcript

Music (00:00):
[Music]

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (00:03):
Hello and welcome back for another episode
of PR & Lattes, the podcastwhere you can fill up your cup
on everything PR andcommunications. I'm your host,
Matisse Hamel-Nelis, and I am sothrilled to have you join me
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(00:24):
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(00:46):
On today's episode, I'm chattingwith Jacquie Severs, the manager
of marketing and tourism for theRegional Municipality of
Durham's Economic Developmentand Tourism division, also known
as Invest Durham and DurhamTourism. In her role, Jacquie
champions Durham Region,Ontario, Canada's exceptional
value proposition forbusinesses, attracts visitors,
fosters downtown growth andcultivates Durham's creative

(01:09):
communities. With over 20 yearsof award winning marketing
experience, Jackie has a trackrecord of developing and
promoting brands across diversesectors. This includes fashion,
home decor, craft beer and themuseum industry, her knack for
storytelling has been shared invarious publications, with one
series earning her thedistinction of the 2018 Ontario

(01:30):
Community NewspaperAssociation's columnist of the
year. I am so happy to bechatting with her today about
all things tourism, PR andmarketing. So grab your latte,
sit back and enjoy.
I am so excited for today'sepisode with Jacquie Severs.
We're talking about all thingstourism and marketing. Welcome
to the podcast.

Jacquie Severs (01:50):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really
pleased to be here.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (01:53):
This is going to be so much fun. So
let's start off with the easy orthe basic stuff. Can you tell me
a little bit about yourself,your own marketing journey and
how that led you into thetourism industry?

Jacquie Severs (02:04):
Sure. So I studied graphic design in
college, and I studied somemarketing management in
university as well, and thatit's been a long and widening
Road, actually, in my career,but most of my career has been
in product marketing. So Iworked in home decor and gift
for a long period of time. Iworked in stationery, like

(02:26):
giftable stationery, which ledme into art licensing, and I
worked in that industry forquite a long time, and that's
really where I kind of cut myteeth, in marketing and PR and
promotions. I was a productmanager and developed new
products, and so that was areally great start to my career.
It gave me a lot of experience,but I had a fine art background
that sort of I had started infine art and marketing, ended up

(02:49):
in graphic design, and a dreamjob crossed my desk at the
Robert McLaughlin Gallery inOshawa to do their marketing and
public relations, and I justbasically laid everything on the
table to get that job. So Iworked there for a number of
years, and that gave me someinsight into the tourism
industry at that time. We were atourism destination, and we

(03:10):
worked closely with our owntourism at that time. So I
started to develop somerelationships and understand the
work of what tourismprofessionals do on the
government side. That gave mesome experience working with
them on events and things likethat. From there, I worked at a
place called Bose brewery, whichwas at its peak, the largest

(03:31):
independent craft brewery. It'snow owned by steam whistle, but
I worked there and was themarketing director there, so I
was back in Product Marketingagain, but was definitely
similar to the museum, in themuseum in the sense that it was
about building community, butthat was another tourism
destination. So we sold theirproducts across the province and
across Canada, but we werelocated in a small town in
eastern Ontario, one stoplighttown that drew tourists from

(03:57):
both Ottawa and Montreal, and webrought in people on busses. We
also ran a gigantic Oktoberfestfestival that brought in 20,000
people into that one stoplighttown. So that was a kind of
getting into tourism marketingagain, right? So not only we
were marketing the product, wewere also people, bringing
people for festivals and eventsand to the brewery on a regular
basis, selling merch andeverything else, like a

(04:17):
destination. So it was there,and then I had twins, and I was
living six hours from my familyand my husband's family, and we
just really were looking forsomething else, a different
change, closer back to the GTAand ready to kind of have a
different lifestyle. The beerindustry is certainly a

(04:38):
lifestyle that demands lots ofpresent side events and evenings
and things like that. And it sohappened that a former contact
at the Region of Durham, who Ihad known through my time
working at with Durham tourismin the past, had shared this
opportunity at the region. Andit was like, it was, was one of
those things where you see, likea job posting, and you're like,
This is so this is mine. There'sno one else is going to get this

(05:01):
I am going to get this job likeif it kills me.
And so at that time, it wasmanager marketing and cluster
development. So that was on theinvestor side of the
organization, EconomicDevelopment and Tourism. The
investor and brand focuses onattracting investment into
Durham Region, supportingbusinesses of all types to grow
and thrive in Durham Region. Andso I was in that role for a

(05:23):
period of time, and then overthe last year, our team has
realigned. We've sort of hadsome just some shuffling. I
worked closely with tourism ontheir marketing, and now
marketing and Invest Durham andDurham tourism sit under my
portfolio. So the manage bothteams, and that brought tourism,
sort of into my realm of work,officially, and so that's kind

(05:47):
of the road that led me here.
It's, it's an interesting anddiverse experience, but I think
that kind of thread that unitesit all is, it's been largely
about trying to kind of fostercommunities, right? Try to get
like people rallied aroundeither a particular product and
feel like an attachment to it,or a particular place and feel
an attachment to it. So that's,that's kind of the similarity

(06:10):
across all of those differentexperiences.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (06:14):
Yeah, and I think it's something that tends
to be forgotten about or not aswidely spoken about is that
community building. When peoplethink of tourism, they think,
"Oh, just get people to a spot,and then that's it," right?

Jacquie Severs (06:26):
Yes, yeah. And I, you know, there's a couple of
things that's, you know, itthere's definitely different
types of tourism marketing, andthere's definitely different
types of tourism development,you know, when you're looking at
a place, maybe like NiagaraFalls, where you've got, like a
wonder of the world, and you aredealing with literally hundreds

(06:46):
of 1,000s of visitors a year,and people from all over the
world, and that is an absoluteeconomic comparative for your
community, that millions ofvisitors come and fill your
hotels. There is a piece of thatkind of tourism marketing that
really is get people through thefunnel from point A to point B
in Durham Region, it's a littlebit different, and we certainly
approach it a little bitdifferent. Strategically. We see

(07:08):
tourism. We definitely want tobring people in. You know what?
We bring, you know, 1,000s ofpeople in for multi-sport games.
We bring way more people in thanyou would think, for tourism
reasons, to visit our NationalHistoric Site or our on-farm
experiences, or, you know, ourmuseums and galleries and things
like that. But also we usetourism as a lever for community

(07:33):
development. So while people arehere visiting, we want them to
have great businesses andcommunities to visit. And so we
do see it as a bit of a localstrategy as well as it a visitor
strategy. So, you know, we dofocus on supporting events. We
spoke, focus on supporting ourdowntown revitalization. We try
to help the businesses thriveand revitalize and grow. So that

(07:57):
is better for residents. Andthen we see it as it will also
then be better for visitors. Soit's, it's kind of a our team
focuses on both aspects of it.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (08:06):
For sure.
And then I'll, obviously, if thetourist has a great experience
overall, not just at the oneattraction they wanted to go to,
but overall, in the community,they're going to come back to
explore other aspects of thatcommunity as well.

Jacquie Severs (08:18):
Yeah. And it's, you know, it's word of mouth is
really important for destinationlike ours. People visiting their
friends and their relatives isreally important for location
like ours. So a lot of people,and you probably know this, if
you live here, you know, like alot of the people who come here
are people visiting theirfriends and their relatives. So,
but what do they do when they'rehere?

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (08:36):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (08:36):
Do they just go to the movies, or they, you
know, like something they coulddo in any community, or are they
going out and doing somethingunique to Durham Region? Are
they going apple picking? Arethey visiting a festival or an
event that they haven't beenable to see anywhere else? And
so the more unique that we'reable to make those experiences
and support those sort ofindependent, truly Durham

(08:58):
experiences, the better for ourcommunities, because those are
the things that people talkabout right when they remember,
they remember those experiencesthat they couldn't have anywhere
else.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (09:06):
For sure.
So that leads into the nextquestion, really well, I think,
how do you approach theintegration of marketing
strategies with tourismdevelopment?

Jacquie Severs (09:16):
So, yeah, so tourism development's an
interesting piece, becausethere's, there are two sides of
it, which I guess I was kind ofpointing to. There is the
tourism marketing piece, andthat's, you know, that really is
my wheelhouse. But there is alsothe tourism development side.
And we do have people on ourteam that are more specialized,
you know, whether they'reworking in specifically creative
industries or specifically, youknow, cycling infrastructure, or

(09:40):
specifically supporting, youknow, it's getting a bit
technical in the language, buton-farm, diversified use. So
like, are they supportingfarmers being able to have farm
shops, or more interest, morediversified, I guess, business
use of their land, other thanjust strictly agriculture or,
you know, so there are sort ofthat that side of it as well,

(10:01):
and that's the tourismdevelopment side, I guess,
coming back to yourquestion...what we try to do is
focus on from our marketingstrategy side, is leveraging our
marketing to both attractvisitors, but also to support
that interconnectedness in ourindustry. So we absolutely want

(10:24):
independent businesses that arethe best, unique businesses in
Durham region to be workingtogether and collaborating. And
so one of the ways we use ourmarketing strategies to do that
is to sort of foster thatthrough for contests. For
example, enter to win thiscontest, and you're going to win
something from this business,this business, this business and
this business that are clusteredtogether, or make sense together

(10:46):
when tickets to an event and ahotel stay or something like
that. So it's through that,through that packaging and sort
of itinerary style approach totourism marketing that helps us
kind of develop that industryand help some
interconnectedness, andhopefully help people that see
that kind of marketingunderstand that there is that
opportunity for kind of amulti-destination trip in Durham

(11:09):
Region.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (11:10):
Since the pandemic, what have been the
biggest challenges in promotingtourism in Durham?

Jacquie Severs (11:14):
I mean, I think right now, the pandemic has
changed tourism significantly.
Let me just start with that, andit has changed the landscape for
hotels. It has absolutelychanged the restaurant, the
restaurant landscape.
Restaurants, in many cases, arestill overcoming and finding new

(11:38):
ways to survive. They aredealing still, in many cases,
with loan repayments, staffingissues, I mean, so when I think
of how it's changed tourism, alot of that is related to the
industry side and how thosebusinesses are still adapting.
They are still trying to recoverand get back to where they were.

(12:00):
Hotels generally at a high levelhave recovered past 2019, levels
there, the rates are back up.
They're full, they're operating,they're busy, and there is a
really high demand for hotels inthe Greater Toronto Area. And I
mean, if you travel to book ahotel in downtown Toronto
anytime the last two years,you'll know why that pricing is
the way it is. You know, there'sa slowing of building hotels,

(12:22):
but the restaurants anddestination side has certainly
not fully recovered. And it's achallenge. It's a real
challenge. It's a challenge forthem to find staff. It's a
challenge for them to be openfull amount of hours. And so,
you know, for a tourist, that'sa real challenge, like, if you
come in for, you know, a bigevent, and you're coming from

(12:43):
Peterborough, you want to hit arestaurant for lunch before you
go to a big event, and some ofthem just aren't open. They're
just not able to open for lunchhours. And people will will say,
like, Oh, it's a shame therestaurants aren't open. Well,
they're not open because theycan't get staff. It's not that
they don't want to be so, youknow, the tourism industry is
has continues to hurt from allof the broader kind of economic

(13:06):
challenges that everyone'sexperiencing, and then on the
visitor side, I mean, the waypeople are spending is
different.
The economy is pretty toughright now. There's not as much
disposable income as there, youknow, has been in previous
years. Housing is reallyexpensive, and so all of those
economic pressures impacttourism similarly, and how

(13:29):
people spend and how long theycan stay, and the types of
activities. On the flip side ofall of that kind of, you know,
doom and gloom side of it isthere is a really high demand
for regional tourism. And when Isay regional, I mean, like, you
know, within the province, yeah,there's absolutely a high demand
for people to stay a little bitcloser to home. They're looking

(13:51):
for escapes. They want, theyhave, like, a strong craving to
travel. But like, maybe theycan't get on a plane and go
somewhere else, or maybe theycan't even go on a really far
road trip. Maybe they just wantto go for an overnight so for
us, like, it's quite busy inDurham Region, people are really
out. People are going to events.
People are going to concerts.
People are going to the farm,like pumpkin picking, like those
things are busy. People arelooking for things to do out of

(14:13):
their house. So on the flipside, there's a really high
demand for it, and a really biginterest in local tour, more
localized tourism, if you will,like people staying, you know,
just for a weekend trip or justa weekend getaway. People are
are looking, and are looking forsomething different than they've
ever done before. And for theprovince, Ontario, that's been
really important and to therecovery is people just getting
out and exploring like just apart of the province they've

(14:35):
never been to before. Yeah, andso, yeah, we're really focused
on trying to leverage that andcontinue to attract visitors in
and have them experience alittle bit of Durham Region
while they're doing that.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (14:47):
Yeah, amazing. How do you use social
media or influencers to helpwith tourism and marketing under
your portfolio?

Jacquie Severs (14:57):
It's big. It's a big part of our marketing
strategy, and it's a big part ofour efforts tourism, like Durham
Tourism currently uses Facebook,X, Instagram, email, YouTube,
we're not on TikTok yet. We'renot the government is not policy
on Tiktok is not favourableright now, though, we are

(15:20):
looking at, trying to thinkabout that, and that's a
changing landscape, too, withwhat's happening in the US.
Yeah, so I will say we recognizeTikTok is important, but
probably the biggest channel forus is Instagram, because
similarly to TikTok, it has thatkind of like first person
experience, the way that likeinfluencers go into a space, you

(15:41):
get a sense of what a place islike. You have a feeling like
you have to get there and getyour photos in that place, the
you know, pics of it or itdidn't happen. Of it all is
really important, and so weinvest quite a considerable
amount of time and energy. We dosome of our own content
creation, and then we use someuser generated content. We asked
to be tagged. And then we askusers who if we can share their

(16:03):
content. We review numerouscollaboration opportunities,
both you know that we seek andthat people seek us out for to
and we analyze every single oneof whether it's a fit for us.
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a majorpart. We also have a blog, and
we use a lot of written, longform, written content to drive
traffic to our website. So,yeah, it's a considerable

(16:27):
investment of time and energyinto content marketing, for
sure.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (16:30):
Has AI changed any of that?

Jacquie Severs (16:34):
The AI of it all. We, I would say we're
experimenting with it, yeah? Imean, it's, it's one of those
things, right? Like, I mean, I'ma graphic designer by trade,
and, like a writer as a, like, alifetime outcome.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (16:49):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (16:49):
Like, I will ask AI, like, we experiment with it,
I use it as a tool. Like, I'll,you know, look at the
suggestions. And I'm like, someof these suggestions are so bad.
I feel like AI is good forbrainstorming. Yes, it's good.
If you can write really goodprompts that are really specific

(17:13):
and get some ideas like I do, Iwill go to, you know, chat GBT
and say, like, give me a list of50 ideas that are, like, a pun
that uses this word and thatdescribes this like, really
specific. And then I'll look atthose 50 ideas. And I'm like, 49
of those are bad. One of thoseis not so bad. And, like, I can
use it this way, right? So,well, I'm not saying we never

(17:35):
use it. I'd love it to organizelists into alphabetical the
worst chore of all time. It doesin a heartbeat, like this list
of businesses of 50 businesses,make it alphabetical. So, yeah,
we're experimenting with it alittle bit. There's some built
in ones, like I've, I've usedthe HubSpot built in one, and I

(17:58):
just find it's, it is missingtone. Still, all of this
rambling is to say we're in, youknow, we're trying it out.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:10):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (18:10):
we're carefully, like, treading into some of it.
We don't overuse it. We wouldnever use it to write, like, a
full blog post or anything likethat. We know it's produces
factually incorrect informationa lot, and we have to produce
factually accurate information,but we're watching it, and I

(18:31):
think that any practitioner inmarketing or PR or social needs
to begin to understand how towrite good prompts, how to have
taste like, I mean, that soundslike a bit snobby, I think. But
like, how to really determine,like, what is your tone?

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:48):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (18:48):
Who is, who is your audience that you're
talking to? And like, the whatthe AI puts out is not
necessarily going to match. Itdoesn't mean the idea might be
bad, but like, the idea might begood, might...

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (18:57):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (18:57):
Like, but like, you have to own that tone of
voice and figure out how whatthat kind of machine gives you,
and how to transpose that intosomething that's actually useful
for your audience and your toneof voice and your brand identity
and things like that, until weget to a place where we can
train the AI and our brandidentity, which probably will
come,

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (19:17):
yeah,

Jacquie Severs (19:18):
Barely enough, yes, yeah, yeah. And so I think
that's it feels like it's comingright? So, like, as the
practitioner, like, you shouldbe smart to be the expert in
your team, right? Like, ourmarketing team was immediately
like, well, we're going to bethe experts. Like, when it comes
up in a meeting, we know how toanswer, how to use it, where,
what the best cases are, whennot to use it, yeah. I think

(19:39):
anyone who's paying attentionright now is starting to
recognize the language as well.
I know if I see a social post goup and it's written by AI, it's
like, immediately I'm like, oh,that's written by AI, and my
brain just shuts it out. Now, Idon't know if other people are
doing that, but it has patterns,right? Just like any other

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (19:56):
Yeah, no, it's true. Anytime I see an
article and it's starts with inthe world of blah, blah, blah,
blah. I'm like, okay, AI. Andthen it ends with In conclusion,
or, like, the words publicrelations, public relations, and
in brackets, PR, I'm like, Oh,just a little bit of editing,
even just a little bit ofediting.

Jacquie Severs (20:13):
Just a little bit of editing. Yeah. So, I
mean, like, I said, it's like,it's a good idea generator. It's
not a bad place to bounce ideasoff of. I like to, I like to
give things acronyms. Like,we're like, oh, we're gonna do
this project and what we'regonna call this project, so that
we're not calling it the, youknow, big, long titles word
project. I'll be like, I putthose seven words in the I'd be

(20:34):
like, give me, like, a cleveracronym for this. Like, generate
like, 100 ideas of like, youknow, D.R.E.A.M., can you make
this project the dream project,but, like, it's dance or
something. Love to use it thatway. Yeah. So, I mean, it's,
it's interesting. And I wouldsay on, like, on the design
side, even on the sort of visualside, there are absolutely great

(20:57):
uses for it. You know, whetheryou're you need more sky and the
picture that you have for yourreport cover or whatever. Yes,
you know, that's great, but thegenerated images, I am still and
I don't think it's there yetwhere people should be using
them. Certainly, I've seen some,you know, things being promoted
with a generated logo. And I'mlike, this is spelling mistakes

(21:18):
in it, right? Like, we're notthere yet, but it's interesting
to see people experimenting withit. So...

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (21:24):
For sure, how do you ensure that you know,
with all the marketingstrategies that you create and
everything that you're doing,and given that you are
government, essentially rightwith tourism, that it is both
inclusive and culturallysensitive in what you're
promoting?

Jacquie Severs (21:41):
Yeah. I mean, that's very important to what
we're doing. One way I would saythat we are inclusive, or strive
to be inclusive, is centeringvoices of people of various
backgrounds. Yeah. So when wehire writers for our blog. We

(22:02):
find writers from differentcommunities or different
backgrounds, differentperspectives, different ages,
cultural groups, things likethat, so that we're having
different voices on our blog.
Like it's not just all uswriting about things, it's
different writers writing aboutthings. For example, right now
we have a writer who's writingabout black owned businesses,
and she is a black writer,right? Like, we work together in

(22:22):
partnerships like that. We alsowork like more broadly,
regionally, or we have a deioffice, and we do work closely
with that office onunderstanding the various events
that are happening throughoutthe year, we try to find
partnerships that make sense indifferent communities, whether

(22:45):
that be food festivals, culturalevents, things like that, where
we're supporting differentopportunities for people to
explore culture. We're veryparticular when we're promoting
tourism destinations that we'relooking essentially through that
lens on everything. So whetherthat's like a, you know, a list

(23:07):
of great patios to exploreacross the region, right? Like,
where's it great? Where are yougoing to patio seasons here?
Where are you going to go tohave a game? We will look
through that lens of like, havewe covered all eight
municipalities in that region?
Have we covered different kindsof business ownership. Have we
covered places that arewelcoming to all different kinds
of people? Have we consideredaccessibility? Right? Like all

(23:29):
of these things are kind ofincluded. Now, it's not perfect.
We don't know if we're trying todo the eight best patios in the
region. It's not always perfect.
We can't always, you know, hitall of the marks, if you will,
but we certainly look at itthrough that lens on everything
that we do and everything thatwe publish, all of the
partnerships that we form, wetry to find and go out and find
it. Because sometimes it's noteasy, you know, sometimes I

(23:51):
think when people try to do thework of being inclusive, or try
to, you know, build a paneldiscussion, the easy thing to do
is the people that you alreadyknow, and that group of people
that you already know might bevery similar to yourself and
might not be that diverse orinclusive. I think that's a
human thing.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (24:10):
Yes.

Jacquie Severs (24:10):
It is an extra step to go. No, you know what?
We need a woman on this panel.
We need someone from a differentcultural background on this
panel. We need someone who isolder on this panel, someone who
is younger on this panel, like,let's, let's take that extra
step and really think and digdeep and make sure that we're
representing all differentvoices. So we do try to go
through that process on anythingthat we partner with. It is kind
of part of our work culture. Andthen it's also, I think, a

(24:35):
really important thing intourism, people want to feel
like they see themselves in yourmarketing. So there is, you
know, it is the right thing todo and it's a strategic thing to
do. Yeah, put it that way,right, like it is both and so
we, we do those thingsabsolutely for both reasons,.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (24:52):
Amazing, amazing. When you're putting
together a campaign, how do youmeasure success?

Jacquie Severs (24:59):
It depends on the campaign. It's interesting,
working into both tourism andeconomic development. A lot of
the story, well, basically, allthe stories that we're telling
and all of the things that we'repromoting are not ourself.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (25:11):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (25:11):
Right? Like we are building our brand as a
trusted voice, both for businessand for tourism in the region,
we use those brands outside theregion and try to create trust,
but everything we're promotingis not ourselves. And so how we
measure success is overalleconomic success in the region.

(25:32):
So when we're looking at overalleconomic success, we are looking
at job growth, we are looking atincome and GDP, like, how,
whether that's raising, whetherwe're kind of raising the
quality of life for people wholive in Durham Region. So it's a
little bit different. So that'skind of like the high level, but
when you get into the actualcampaigns, I mean, we are
looking at things likeimpressions, click throughs,

(25:54):
landing page views, our growth,our engagement rate on our
social media and things likethat. Like, we do measure those
and have targets for those aswell. But yeah, ultimately, our
ultimate, highest level goal isjob creation. So it all kind of
funnels up to that.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (26:10):
Amazing.
How does sustainability andtourism marketing come into play
when you're incorporating thatinto your strategies?

Jacquie Severs (26:18):
That's an interesting piece for us,
we...we do a lot of work onsustainability as, I guess, a
regional governmentorganization. You know, we have
a sustainability office in ourplanning team, which of which
we're sort of clustered withtogether in terms of the
organization, are doing a lot ofwork on things like walkable

(26:41):
communities, cyclinginfrastructure. So on the
tourism side, that's sort of, Iguess, the fit with those kinds
of initiatives are things likepromoting local food. We do a
ton of work around agriculturein general. It's a big economic
sector in Durham Region, and sowe have a lot of resources

(27:01):
dedicated to supportingagriculture and agricultural
growth, urban farming, thingslike that. And then on the
tourism side, it is promotinglocal food. So local,
independently owned restaurants,particularly those that use
sourcing, are sourcing localingredients, which may be
outside of Durham Region, but,you know, relatively local
Ontario or Canadian ingredients,and then also like farmers

(27:25):
markets and sourcing local foodlike that has been a very big
piece of our promotion in anongoing way every year. The
other one, I would say, aboutsustainability and that sort of
walkable cycle will communitiesand making them a better place
to live is downtowns. So on thetourism side, we have a big
focus on downtowns, whetherthat's supporting grant

(27:46):
applications for like federalfunding for downtown
revitalizations or economicdevelopment, promoting events
and supporting events thathappen in our downtowns,
promoting downtowns in generalthrough our content and
promoting people going intotheir downtowns and feeling
ownership of their downtowns.
That's a big area, and it'smaybe funny to say that as a

(28:06):
sustainability but when we thinkabout how our communities are
growing in the way thatcommunities are changing, in
terms of density of housing andhow people are going to be
living in the next 10 or 20years, keeping our downtown
strong as a really, reallyimportant piece to having
sustainable neighborhoods withstrong local businesses lots of
places to work a better qualityof life and not feeling like you

(28:28):
have to drive a great distanceto go do things or go places or
experience that kind ofcommunity that people want. So
downtowns are really importantpiece of sustainability for for
our region.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (28:42):
With everything going on, how do you
stay up to date on the tourismand marketing landscape, to make
sure that you are going with thelatest trends, or being ahead of
the trends even?

Jacquie Severs (28:56):
I just never stop. There's this thing I
learned. So I'm, I'm doing amaster's right now on the side,
and I have my the prof, who'sthe PhD prof who's running that
program, is this amazing woman,and I love learning from her.
And she has this idea. She didher PhD on cultural

(29:17):
intermediaries, and I've beenobsessed with that idea ever
since I watched the lecture onit. It's very much my life,
right? So when you're a culturalintermediary, you sort of sit in
between a lot of things. You sitbetween government and business
and arts and culture, and youknow, people who live in
communities, and you sort ofconnect, and you interconnect
all of those things, yeah. Sothat's great. That's an exciting

(29:41):
place to be in. But it alsomeans you kind of never stop
working. Like, even when you'renot working, you're still like,
"Oh, I gotta introduce you tothis person," "Oh, I read about
this podcast. I've gotta, like,send it to it," right? Because
it is, like, your life's work,right? Yeah, like your life and
your work are kind of what. So Iwould say that is kind of one
part of my personality that isabsolutely true. I felt so seen

(30:02):
when she was doing that lecture.
I was like, oh, there's a termfor that. I just thought I was a
workaholic. I'm a culturalintermediary. That's a much
kinder term, but that's justalso being a person who's a
lifelong learner, who's reallypassionate about their community
and what they're doing. So itkind of like never want to stop
learning and getting better atwhat I'm doing. So, I mean, I

(30:22):
read newsletters. I There'sgreat people I follow, you know,
like experts at social orexperts and content writing, or
those kinds of people. I readthose newsletters, I follow
those things. I try to pick andchoose conferences to go to that
are extremely relevant for me. Istruggle sometimes with industry
conferences because you alwayswant to go. You're like, oh,

(30:44):
this is fun. I get to go go toKingston, yeah. But I will look
at the agenda, and if the agendahas like, one session, that's
like, social media 101, I'mlike, This is not my conference.
Yeah, I will enjoy it. It'll beinteresting, but it's not
actually going to level up myskill. Yeah, that's not the one
for me. So I will try toidentify things that are
actually the best use of my timealways, and attend those and

(31:06):
really like where I know I'mgoing to sit the whole time and
not look at my phone. Those arethe ones I want to go to,
staying connected with people inpost secondary, you know,
finding opportunities to go towebinars and things like that.
That's it's kind of just anongoing thing. I always am

(31:26):
trying to learn from people whoI think are better than me, or
that are mentors, or that havehad success in the past. So for
like, tourism is interestingbecause it's a little bit new,
like I've come from the otherside of tourism, new, word to
tourism and government. So evenin that I'm like, I'm going to
the tourism conferences, I'mtrying to learn from people who
talk about industry developmentand and hear what they're

(31:47):
saying, and hear what the latesttrends are, and make
connections. And you know,higher levels of government
where people are much moredeeply experienced and have
their perspective, read theirreports like, I love reading,
like, provincial reports ontourism and things like that, to
really have a broaderperspective outside of the space
that I work in.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (32:09):
Yeah, I love the point about the
conferences in that, you know, alot of people be like, "Oh, it's
a big name conference. I have togo." But if you look at the
sessions and it's not actuallygoing to help you, or it's basic
in comparison to where you're atin your skill set, why would you
go right? Like you said,otherwise you're just on your
phone and checking emails, whichyou could do at the office or at

(32:30):
home.

Jacquie Severs (32:30):
Yeah, and I think it depends on your Yeah.
It's not going to be for me. Ineed to go to the marketing
personality. I know a lot ofpeople use conferences like that
for networking. They want tobuild their network. They want
to be present. And I applaudthose people I am not the
greatest at in personnetworking. I like, I'm an
introvert, you know, like Istruggle a little bit in those
environments. I know I strugglea bit in those environments. So
if I am going to push myself,because I will go and I'm like,

(32:53):
I'm an extrovert, this week, I'mmeeting everyone. If I'm going
to go to that effort and, like,push myself to do it like, I
really, really just want to findit valuable in all of the
possible ways, of course. Andso, like, I'm not necessarily
saying about any specificconference, believe it or not, I
conference, right? Like, I needto go to that market con
used to decline going to beerconferences. I was like, I know
that's going to be fun. I knowthere's going to be a lot of fun

(33:15):
had at that conference, butthere's going to be one session
on marketing.
conference and learn for thebest marketers, and then think
about how that applies to theindustry I'm working in. And so
sometimes I think, as marketers,that is the case, right? Like
you're gonna be in whateverproduct industry we're in,
whatever kind of you know,channel your marketing. That

(33:39):
might actually not be theconference for you. The
Marketing Conference might befor you, the PR the social media
events. Those ones might be theones where you need to go. Even
if they seem less relevantbecause they're not industry
specific, they are industryspecific for you. So that's
something I've looked at doingfor a number of years in
different industries I've beenin.

Unknown (33:56):
in.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (33:57):
How? Not how, but what trends do you see
coming up for tourism andmarketing in particular?

Unknown (34:07):
I

Jacquie Severs (34:07):
That's interesting trends. I would say
the biggest trend this year is,or this past year, I would say,
like, the past 18 months hasbeen, like, social media in its
flop era. Like, I just feel likethis is the conversation of most
of the marketers, of like, mykind of age and like level of
experience they're talkingabout, because we have been in
marketing now for 20 years, andthat, basically, that entire 20

(34:28):
years has been driven by thegross of social media. So you've
gone from being a person whowrote press releases to
launching your company's firstFacebook page to or MySpace.
With my case, the first one Ilaunched corporate was in
MySpace, and now you've kind of,you built it up. And now, like,
you know, two years ago, youwere running a mega Instagram
account, and I'm being Facebookand like, Twitter was popping

(34:50):
you were, like, dropping moneyon Twitter ads. And now it's
like, okay, what are we doingnow, like, news isn't on meta
and Tiktok may be gettingbanned, and Twitter is X, and
it's not really working anymore.
I don't even want to go on thereto publish content, because it's
upsetting. And like Facebook,it's like, it's so pay to play,
and the Facebook advertisingplatform is frustrating. It's

(35:11):
like, it just feels like, and noone really knows what's coming
next. To invest their time.
People are asking, should I geton Threads? I'm like, Well,
we're on threads. We parked ourthreads account.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (35:24):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (35:24):
We're not sure yet. We can't publish to it from
our publishers. So you know, itreally is just a time of
uncertainty. So that's a bigtrend. A lot of people,
including us, are really focusedon building their e-news lists
as a result. Like, let's own ourcontacts. Let's really focus on
that again, and that seems to bethe biggest conversation
happening all the time.
Otherwise, I would say anotherinteresting trend, and this is

(35:49):
more, I guess, a social trendthat I'm paying attention to,
because I think it's importantin community building, is the
lack, sorry, it's two, sort oftwo things. It was, like, the
lack of a cultural monolith,like the way that, like I said
this recently to a co worker.

(36:09):
She was like, Oh, I went to seethis podcaster, and it was at
the Scotiabank arena, and shesaid his name. And I was like,
Oh, that's weird. I've neverheard of him. She was like, Oh,
I'd never heard of him either.
Like, I went with my partner.
And I was like, it is. Itcontinues to be baffling to me
that there can be artists orentertainers of any kind that
are big enough to fill theScotiabank arena, and I have
never even heard their name.
Now, I don't need to knoweverything about everyone. I
don't need to know everymusician. I know that. I don't
I'm in my 40s now I'm like, I'mnot hip to everything. But like,

(36:33):
if you're big enough to fill thearena downtown Toronto, I think
normally your name would have atleast crossed my radar at some
point.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (36:40):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (36:41):
It's not the case anymore, right? Like,
there's so many niches and microniches and niches within niches,
and like Tik Tok and YouTubestars that are like massive,
like global things, and I'venever seen their content before,
and that is a real interestingarena to play in as a marketer,
because you're also competingwith all of those people out for

(37:01):
attention and time, along withall the global brands. And so
it's just it feels like a wildwest a little bit. And so the
other side of that is likejumping on trends and
understanding the discourse, ifyou will, like the time that it
takes to understand trends onTwitter or, sorry, trends on
TikTok trends that are filteringinto reels, the music, the why

(37:25):
those clips are trending, whatit actually means, like
understanding all of thosethings is a part of both having
good content and then also, kindof on the government of it all
is having content that's notsuper risky, like making sure
that you're not jumping into atrend that you think is just
this innocent thing, but it'sactually, like, not that you
should be in and that just getsmore and more challenging as

(37:46):
our, like, our culture dividesup, right? Like, yeah, power to
creators. Like, it's amazingthat you could be a creator.
Like, walk down the street, noone recognizes you, but you have
like, multi million followersand this amazing income. Like,
that's amazing,

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (37:59):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (37:59):
It was a challenge for marketers, right
to kind of keep up witheverything.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (38:03):
Yeah, of course. Of course. So with
everything we've talked about, Iwant to hear from you, what was
the most memorable experience orlearning moment in your career
when it came to marketing andtourism, or what was your like
big we did it. This was amazing.

Jacquie Severs (38:20):
I've had a few of those. I've had a few of
those, I would say. And this ismaybe not, it's not related to
the role I'm in right now. I'vehad some big we did it, but I'm
gonna actually focus on atourism destination I went to as
a marketer, paying attention tothe experience of what they were
doing. At one point in mycareer, when I worked in beer,

(38:43):
we were working with JamesonWhiskey folks. We had a
partnership with them, and as aresult of that, got to go to
Ireland with the Jamison Whiskeyteam for like a 48 hour
whirlwind trip. And theyimmersed us in how they train
for their brand. How theyoperate the tourism experience

(39:04):
at the cork distillery and theDublin distillery, which is
essentially just like a tourismwonderland of Jameson. And we
also got to see their barrelfields, which we had to, like,
put our phones away, and we gotto like, it was just like the
most insane. I can't evenpossibly articulate how many
barrels there are, andparticularly in the Dublin

(39:27):
experience, when they walk youthrough like, I 'm not, I wasn't
a whiskey drinker before this,and I was certainly not a
Jameson like, a super fan oranything. It was like a good
branding partnership. But whenthey explained how they walk you
like, essentially, you sign up,you pay and you go through,
like, what is like, you know,you know, Disney World is, like,
It's A Small World After All...

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (39:48):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (39:48):
Like that. It was kind of like that for, like,
the whiskey-making process withlike, multiple, like, small
tasting. So you understand,like, they had you taste their
competitors inside thisexperience. So you could compair
and understand with a person themost passionate, like advocates
for their brand, explaining tothe difference between their

(40:10):
competitors and them. Thedifference between American
whiskey and Irish whiskey is themaking process, spelling all the
ingredients in these like,absolutely like, bonkers,
beautiful brooms, like, justtotally, like a light show,
like, just the whole, like,yeah, just overwhelming of the

(40:30):
senses, and you come out theother side and you're like, I
absolutely are the biggestJameson Whiskey fan. All the
other whiskeys are trash, like,and like, it was just, it, like,
blew my mind, and I was like,this is like, and then
meanwhile, in that trip waslearning, like, how they train
their ambassadors, the programsthat they go through, how they
get the staff, like, where youcan start, where you can go,

(40:52):
they'll send you around theworld. Like, there's a whole
kind of ladder, sort of styleprogram for their ambassadors in
their marketing team. And like,you don't work in their
corporate marketing team, untilyou've done all those rungs of
the ladder, until you've soldsomeone in the distiller, until
you've travelled to Canada andsold someone, until you've been
like, you know, creating socialcontent for like, all of those
steps up to get into like,corporate marketing for them.

(41:14):
And it just completely, like,changed my I was like, okay,
global brand. And how you builda global brand, how you build
that loyal following, how youcan completely, like, change the
narrative. And they talked aboutthis, like, you know, we're
really trying to convincepeople, like, all around the
world, one of the things wedon't have is, like, people go
into a bar and they'll say,like, a rum and coke.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (41:35):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (41:36):
And, like, we don't have that for whiskey, but
we're trying to make, like, awhiskey and ginger beer, a bar
order.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (41:42):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (41:42):
Like, they're trying to change, like, a
global, like, like pattern, youknow, and like, how people
behave in bars, like, that's thelike level of like aspiration
they have, yeah. And so it justreally, really, like,
completely, like, reformed mybrain. I came away from that. I
was like, there is, like, awhole world of experiential

(42:02):
marketing, ambassadors,immersion in, like, a culture
that just kind of came away Iwas like that. I just learned
more in that, like, 48 hoursthat I can take into my career
then, like, I have learnedeverything up until this point,
like it just kind of threweverything out the window for
me. So it was, it was a realinteresting game changing
experience, and kind of justsort of transformed, I guess,

(42:27):
how I behave as a marketerthinking about, like, customer
experience.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (42:30):
Yeah

Jacquie Severs (42:31):
Who are you trying to talk to? What are you
trying to convince them to do?
Like, understand that and thenthink about everything else
afterwards.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (42:36):
Oh, that's incredible. That sounds
incredible. Absolutelyincredible. That it was a great
experience, yeah, if only, forexample, colleges or
universities could say we'regonna send you to Jameson for
two days. You're gonna do this.
This is gonna be your crashcourse. Yeah, there you go.

Jacquie Severs (42:49):
Right. Yeah. I mean, you know some of those
things you can only learn, like,I mean, that partnership also
came from taking a risk, fromaccepting a phone call, from
having a conversation, andfeeling kind of out of my depth,
talking to like someone andbeing like, yeah, like, let's
actually get together and form apartnership. Like, let's get to
know each other, right? And so,you know, amazing things happen.
I guess when you get a littleout of your depth, yeah,

(43:12):
exactly, sometimes comfort zoneisn't the best place. Just
absolutely, just, yeah, get outof that.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (43:17):
Yeah. To wrap up, this has been
absolutely amazing. Thank you somuch for all this great insight
and the stories and like, I'mgoing to think of that Jameson
one. I'm not going to lie forquite some time. And when my
husband gets home, who is Irish.

Jacquie Severs (43:29):
I probably just sold, like, the trip to Ireland.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (43:31):
Oh yeah.
It's like, we have to go back toyour home country because he's
from Ireland. And be like, wedid the Guinness one. Now I have
to do Jameson, let's do this.
Yeah, so next on the radar. Butwhat tips or advice would you
give someone who's consideringentering the tourism sector as
somebody either in marketing orPR?

Jacquie Severs (43:49):
Networking is great if I think in my career,
like all along the way, a lot ofopportunities have come from
people I've known that havedeveloped relationships. You
never know where someone isgoing to end up. Definitely stay
connected to everyone you knewin college, because you never
know where they were going toend up and how you might cross
paths again. And like, whatthose relationships, whether

(44:12):
they just be like someone youcan reach out to for, you know,
speaking events and things likethat. Or, you know, you never
know where that is. So thenetwork piece, I know that that
is advice that I got when I wasa younger marketer, that I was
like, I don't like that advice,because I don't actually like
networking. But I think it'simportant to think of it's like,
does it? I'm not talking aboutgoing up to people at events and
introducing yourself and givinga business card necessarily,

(44:33):
although it is that. I thinkit's that like building
relationships and whoever thatis, and maintaining them right?
Like maintaining them and beingpresent for them. Online
networking is easier now thatLinkedIn exists. Try different
types of marketing careers andindustries. The skills are
transferable. It's one of thebest things about being in

(44:55):
marketing PR design is that youcan work in all different kinds
of businesses because thelessons you learn in beer will
apply to government marketing,and the lessons that you learn
and the art gallery will applyto fashion marketing. Like,
there is different skill setsyou learn along the way.
Absolutely learn all the newsoftwares the second they drop.

(45:18):
Like, that's how I feel aboutAI. It was like, Well, I better
become an expert in writingprompts. Then, like, Oh, we're
doing, like, reels now. I betterbe the best there is at reels.
Like, I even don't do itpersonally. Like, I was like,
reels is thing, okay,transitions are a thing. I'm
just gonna use my personalaccount and, like, do this
little project where I, like,I've changed my clothes, like I

(45:38):
do outfits with reels and like,then I become an expert. So I
can use that at work, like youhave to adopt whatever it is,
like, even if you feel thatresistance. Because I feel the
resistance to all the new thingsall the time, because I've gone
through enough of them that I'mlike that I'm feeling that
resistance, I better learn it.
So, yeah, just learn the newthings, whatever that is, yeah,
and then find mentors. Like, Ialways feel like a little lost

(46:05):
when I don't have a greatmentor. The best mentors for me,
who are people who push me to dothings that I didn't think I
could do, that have really been,like, really seminal moments in
my career, or someone who'slike, Oh, you're going to do
this because you're going to begreat at it, like, find those
people and work for them. Theyare the ones that will actually

(46:27):
transform your career andaccelerate it, not the people
who tell you that you're not thepeople that you feel intimidated
to share your ideas with becausethey don't hold you up. You're
going to have bosses like thatalong the way. I've had many
bosses like that along the way.
Find the ones that are like noyou can do this insane thing
you've never done before. Ibelieve in 100% those are the
people who are going to progresspropel your career, for sure.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (46:48):
100% agree with that. 100% agree. So before
I let you go, this is PR andlatte. So I have to ask, what is
your favourite caffeinated go tobeverage?

Jacquie Severs (46:59):
I drink black coffee. Feel like ashamed to
admit it on a latte.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:03):
No, don't.

Jacquie Severs (47:05):
Milk is an essential ingredient. I will
occasionally order a flat whiteif I'm feeling fancy, but
lactose-free, but um, blackcoffee. So it's either a black
coffee or an Americano.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:15):
Oh, fancy.

Jacquie Severs (47:16):
I just don't want any. I do not I do not
believe sugar belongs in coffee.
That's my controversial hottake. Sugar does not belong in
coffee.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:25):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (47:25):
Coffee is not a dessert.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:28):
You were the third person I've had on
this would be like, coffee isnot a dessert. It is either
black coffee or there's a littlebit of milk. That is all we
need.

Jacquie Severs (47:35):
That's it.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:35):
What is it with this,?

Jacquie Severs (47:37):
If you feel like you need sugar in a coffee, I
would argue you need bettercoffee?

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (47:41):
Yes, agreed. Okay, I agree with you.
I put milk in my coffee, andthat's it, unless it's from, you
know, Tim Hortons, then I do puta little bit of sweetener, just
kind of, sometimes, it sometimescomes out tasting a little
burned, so little sweetener.

Jacquie Severs (47:55):
But I like, I love all types of coffee, like,
I never. I will drink too. Iwill drink Tim Hortons. I'll
drink McDonalds. I will drinkthat like Van Hooten, like I
will drink all types of coffee.
I do love. I'll give the shoutout to Deadly Grounds. Yes,
coffee is so good. Their Deathby Chocolate is like, oh so
good. The if that's brewing inmy house and I smell it, I'm

(48:17):
like, today is going to be agood day.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (48:19):
Yeah.

Jacquie Severs (48:19):
So if you haven't had deadly grounds,
they're in a mall and strip malland Courtice. You gotta get out
there and get some horror themecoffee and get their death by
chocolate. The best.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (48:31):
They are amazing. Oh, now I kind of want
to go and just be like, coffee,excuse me.

Jacquie Severs (48:35):
Like a doughnuts that look like eyeballs,
whatever they got on that day.
But, yeah, their coffee is sogood.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (48:41):
Yes, so good. Well, thank you again,
Jacquie, for being on today'sepisode. If people want to get
in touch with you on social orsend you an email or anything
like that, where can they findyou?

Jacquie Severs (48:50):
I'm at Jacquie Severs. It's Jackie with a Q
that's important to know.
J-A-C-Q-U-I-E, Severs. I'm atJackie severs basically on every
platform. So you can find me onon any platform.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (49:00):
Amazing.
And we'll make sure to put thoselinks in the episode description
as well, so it's easy for peopleto find you again. Thank you so
much for being on today'spodcast.

Jacquie Severs (49:08):
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I
really appreciate it.

Unknown (49:12):
it.

Matisse Hamel-Nelis (49:12):
You've been listening to the PR & Lattes
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You can also subscribe to ourweekly newsletter by visiting
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(49:35):
sure to follow us on social, onInstagram, at @PRAndLattes, and
on LinkedIn. I've been yourhost, Matisse Hamel-Nelis. Thank
you so much for listening, andwe'll see you next week with a
new latte and guest bye for now.