December 11, 2024 • 18 mins
In this episode of Practical Access, hosts Lisa Dieker and Rebecca Hines dive into the critical role of assistive technology (AT) in math and science education with guest Dr. Tiffanie Zaugg. Dr. Zaugg is a former AAC Coordinator in the school district of Iowa and creator of EL, a chatbot designed to revolutionize teaching practices and enhance student learning experiences. Dr. Zaugg shares insights on using AT to support students with diverse needs. The discussion highlights:
- Framework for AT Use: Exploring the SETT Framework (Student, Environment, Tasks, Tools) to identify specific needs before selecting tools.
- AI and AT Innovations: Utilizing AI-driven tools like MathGPT and platforms like Microsoft's Math Solver to enhance accessibility and comprehension.
- Accessible Resources: Recommendations like the Inclusive 365 guide and leveraging built-in device features for speech-to-text, text-to-speech, and more.
- Teacher Empowerment: Strategies for new educators to build a basic AT toolkit, even in resource-limited settings, and the importance of shifting mindsets around AT as an essential, not optional, resource.
- Debates on Technology in Classrooms: Navigating trends like cell phone restrictions and their implications for students relying on mobile devices as AT.
Dr. Zaugg also addresses resistance to AT use, offering practical ways to reframe its importance and promote its integration in classrooms. Whether you're a teacher, administrator, or parent, this episode provides actionable strategies to ensure students can thrive with the support of assistive technology.
Tune in for a thoughtful discussion that reimagines how we approach learning in STEM through innovation and accessibility.
We love to hear from our listeners! If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. We look forward to receiving your questions on our Twitter (@Accesspractical) or Instagram (@Practical_Access).
Resources:
Tiffanie’s Chatbot, EL: https://www.canva.com/design/DAF4ZnhZ8TI/bGhftIi8zBjLuBFANJBP2w/view?utm_content=DAF4ZnhZ8TI&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=editor
Equatio: https://www.texthelp.com/products/equatio/
Math Solver: https://math.microsoft.com/en
MathGPT: https://math-gpt.org/
Inclusive 365: https://inclusive365.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa Dieker (00:07):
Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa
Dieker.
Rebecca Hines (00:10):
And I'm Rebecca Hines and Lisa, today's guest is
someone that we know has a broadexperience and background in
technology in general, todaywe're going to tap into a
specific area. Tell us what thatis.
Lisa Dieker (00:26):
Yeah, so we're excited to be talking about AT
support in science and math, butwe're equally excited to have a
friend and a colleague that wenow can call Dr. Tiffanie Zaugg.
Welcome Dr. Zaugg, we're so gladwe're with you, and we'll call
you Tiffanie from this pointforward.
Tiffanie Zaugg (00:42):
Thank you for having me.
Lisa Dieker (00:44):
So, I'm gonna kick off the first question. I am a
new teacher. I am teaching math,and I have a kid who's
struggling with comprehendingmath. What's what's a go to,
what assistive technology? Wheredo I go find who do I even talk
to to get this name? Does itjust fall into the my lap?
(01:07):
Where? Where do we start?
Tiffanie Zaugg (01:09):
Well, I would reach out to, you know, every
state does assistive technologya little differently. Who are
the, I hate using the wordexperts, because I feel like
everybody isn't. You know,technology changes so quickly
that everybody is an expert, orcould be an expert, but reach
(01:29):
out to if your district hassomeone, there's people at the
state level. There's statefunded or Office of Special
Education funded AT people. Butone of the things I would say is
really thinking about there is aframework that we use in
assistive technology called theSETT Framework, by Joy Zabala,
(01:53):
and it's really as a new teacheror new to assistive technology,
going through what SETT standsfor. First thing we want to talk
about is the student. What iswhat areas are the student
having issues with? I I eventhink about science, right?
Science, there's really not adisability for science, it's
more, do they have a reading isit a reading difficulty? Is it a
(02:15):
writing difficulty? Same waywith math, what is it that the
student is struggling with?
Right? So we really need to knowwhat it is about the student,
what's the environment? E isenvironment. Where is this
taking place? Is it math class?
Is it, I'm struggling with mathconcepts in science and social
science and mathematics, right?
And then what is the specifictask we want the student to be
(02:37):
able to do you know, are they?
Is it a physical disability?
Maybe struggling withhandwriting or lining up
problems? Is it executivefunctioning? All of those things
are important to be able tonarrow down. What if you'll
notice last the last thing, thelast T is tools, because we like
(02:58):
to jump to tools, right? Like,oh, you know, these are the fun
little things to do, but whenwe're talking about assistive
technology, we really need to gothrough the framework to get us
to what kind of tools arespecific to the students area of
need.
Rebecca Hines (03:16):
So, I definitely agree with all of those things
as someone who is has aninterest in AI, as I know you
do, do we now have some somesteps, you know, when I go
through that process? I knowyou've created a tool that is
designed for educators. Is therea way that we can help teachers
(03:39):
learn to look for solutionsthemselves or suggestions
themselves, so that they canhave a more clear request when
they go and try to find the toolthat they're looking for?
Tiffanie Zaugg (03:54):
So yes, if you or you for say, we'll just throw
EL out there. If I was a teacherand I was using my AI chat bot,
EL, I would be asking, I have astudent who is struggling in the
area of mathematics. I would bespecific as to what that that is
right, like, what task do I wantthem to be able to do. Is it a
(04:15):
multiplication? Is it? Is it,you know, they're struggling
with fractions what, and thenasking what tools are available,
or what assistive technology isavailable for that student.
Because, you know, there are somany from low tech to high tech,
and when I say low tech, I'mtalking like it could be a math
(04:39):
manipulative, right? Like Icould just go get pennies out of
my purse and be using that tohelp with money, right? So to
high tech, which could be, youknow, Equatio is a product by
Texthelp that is is formathematics, itmakes math
(05:00):
accessible. So there's just alot of different options. And
what I would say, first off,think about what you have
currently yourself, you know,like what tools, every product
is required, or every platform.
And when I say platform, I mean,is it a Mac? Is it a PC? Is it a
tablet? What accessibilityfeatures are built into them?
(05:23):
First, right? We always want touse what is readily available to
us. So for example, if you'restruggling with math, Microsoft
has a math website. I broughtthem up so I would remember all
(05:47):
of the different names. But,Microsoft has Math Solver, so
you can put a math problem inMath Solver and it's going to
solve it out and give you thestep-by-step on how to how to
solve a math problem. So reallythinking about what tools you
have available already builtinto your device, right? I just
(06:11):
saw that Apple, the IOS 18 iscoming out with a math tablet
that goes along with it's a mathnotebook, is what it's called,
and it's geared towards makingit accessible, making math
accessible on a tablet, oractually on an on an iPad,
(06:35):
right? iPad 18, and using thepencil and I can write out my
problems, it's going to help mesolve them and walk through it.
So, there's constantly newtechnology coming out,
obviously, which we know aboutMathGPT is something that's
brand new, or it's newer andit's using AI. And I just read
(06:59):
an article where a lot of thecolleges in California are using
it because they're not allowedto have basic math classes in
college anymore. So these aretools that we can be able to
use. One of the other things asI go down my my path here, there
(07:20):
is Inclusive 365 is a book. Itis a wet and there's also a
website that gives you 365different tools in specific
areas. So I could go in and Icould look it's inclusive365.com
is the website. I can go and sayI'm looking for something in
STEAM (07:48):
science, technology, education, arts and mathematics,
right? And it's going to give mea whole bunch of different
strategies that I could be usingin those areas. I could look for
it in reading like it has all ofthe different areas. So there's
a lot of great resources outthere that will help pull those
(08:08):
strategies you need specificallyfor students. So if I was a
beginning teacher, and if I hadwell, if I had my way, I would
make sure everybody had thatbook or the website, because it
does provide a lot of content,specific strategies. Mike
Marotta, Karen Janikowski, BethPoss and Christopher Bugaj are
(08:33):
the authors. They're worldrenowned AT people, and they've
just done a really great job ofgiving you an idea of different
tools, but it's contentspecific, task specific, and
that's really what we want tomake sure we're doing, instead
of just randomly throwing toolsat a student and seeing what
(08:58):
catches, which unfortunately hashappened a lot in the past.
Lisa Dieker (09:04):
Yeah, and that's and that's a great opening to
the question I wanted to askyou. So I hear this a lot, and I
know your answer will match myanswer, but people will say,
"Well, I don't know if that kidcan use text-to-speech, because
they can't use it on the statetests." And I'm like, Well, I
don't care, because one day outof the year isn't the same as
179 and kids will learn more ifthey can learn with ease. But,
(09:25):
but what I find teachers say tome, when they follow up with
that, like, okay, I get it.
That's okay. Is it? Like, "Idon't know what to use. I don't
know where to get it." So one ofthe things I've been
recommending, I'm kind ofcurious what you how you see is
that people have, like, a toolkit in their district. Like,
these are the 10 things. Becausethe problem comes that if a kid
moves a lot, or the kids instate A, they can have a
(09:48):
keyboard in state B, they can't.
You know, it becomes this wholecatch 22 but I'm kind of
curious, like, maybe, what areyour two or three go-tos that if
I'm a teacher, and I'm in arural school where there is no
AT support? It's me, myself andI or I'm, you know, a new
teacher, and I don't even knowwho to call, like, where would
(10:10):
be, besides the accessiblefeatures built in, like, what
should I make sure my studentsare having access to, kind of on
a daily basis? And how do I do Ibuild that skill set with the
little time I have?
Tiffanie Zaugg (10:23):
So, you talk about speech-to-text,
text-to-speech, I think thoseare any more to me. That's just
a given. I always like to usethe scenario that we those are
tools that are readilyavailable, that we're already
using, right? You've, thehistory of AT, you know,
(10:45):
everything starts as assistivetechnology, and then it gets to
the point where it becomesgeneral, and now we all have
access to it, right? So why notteach the students to use tools
that they already have? Youknow, the obviously having a
calculator available. I know itintrigues me that still today we
have the whole conversationabout, well, even calculators
(11:08):
are still cheating. And I'mlike, come on, people look good.
This is 2024, but having thatunderstanding of why those tools
are important and how to moveforward with those tools. So I
would say, use what's built in,because we know that all devices
(11:32):
have speech-to-text,text-to-speech built into them.
There's a calculator built inthere somewhere, right? And then
when you talk about state tests,I would consider looking at a
state test that has thoseaccessibility features built in,
because there are state testsnow that have those built in,
and pushing the envelope, and asAT people, that is something
(11:54):
we've been really trying to doin states, is pushing that,
those tools to get them built inso it's not a but they don't get
to use it on state test, right?
Lisa Dieker (12:06):
And yet, I argue too that I understand state
tests are validated. You know,two years ago, on a large sample
and tech changes before the testvalidated changes. But, yeah,
it's an interesting piece. And Iand, and yet I also think, and I
think you would agree that kidsshould know how to use the tech
themselves, like they should beable to say to the teacher, Hey,
(12:27):
these are the three tools I'musing. And if you have questions
about it, see me like I thinkwe're kind of in a new shift,
where it should be that I cometo school. So my last question
for you would be, is cellphones? There's a new trend
across the country of cellphones being put away. And yet,
it's a hard one for me to argue,because I'm just like, Bring on
the tech. Yet, I've been inschools where kids tell me they
(12:49):
love that their cell phones areput away. I've been in other
schools that have it. What? Whatdo you see as the trend in the
AT world, and that, especiallyin math and science, where it is
a tool for that? And that's,that's my last question. I'll
let you finish it up.
Tiffanie Zaugg (13:02):
Oh, you know that is I've been reading those
articles in the whole shift. Butthen I also have seen students,
where obviously their AT istheir phone, for example,
Bookshare, okay, if I am astudent that needs my textbooks
read to me, Bookshare is free tostudents with reading
(13:26):
disability, A I'm not. Mystudent doesn't have to carry 40
books in their backpack, right?
Like so there's some physicalthings, but having those books
with them at all times, in anall spaces that is accessible to
them at all times, I have a hardtime taking that away. So where,
(13:48):
where litigiously Are we goingto end up when a teacher tells a
student you can't have your cellphone, but it's a it's their
access to curriculum. So I thinkthere's gonna probably be,
unfortunately, some legal issuesthat arise by taking that. And I
(14:10):
know you could put Bookshare ona tablet, and then it becomes
their AT that way, but I look atit, my cell phone probably just
like yours, is my assistivetechnology. If I don't have my
calendar, I'm probably not goingto tell you what I'm supposed to
(14:32):
be doing today at 2:30 with Lisaand Becky.
Rebecca Hines (14:39):
Yeah, Tiffanie, I think that's a great a great
response. My My final question,I know that you have extensive
background working with teachersat the district and state level
in Iowa, what what is yourelevator speech? What is your
recurring statement? To thosewho are resistant to using AT
(15:03):
I'm sure you must have comeacross that throughout your
career.
Tiffanie Zaugg (15:07):
Oh, I do. My favorite, my favorite example of
this was I was doingprofessional development in a
school district, and the highschool basketball coach was a
social studies teacher. Andright away is like, oh, our
students don't need AT and AT,you know, blah, blah, blah was
(15:27):
going on, and I said to him, Isaid, I can think of assistive
technology that you do use in abasketball game on a regular
basis. You may not think aboutit as assistive technology, but
it's there when you need it, andyou have access to it, and what
would you do without it? Andhe's like, I don't either. And I
(15:49):
said, What about the scoreboard?
Right? A scoreboard is prettyimportant to a coach when the
time's ticking down in seconds,but having that available.
Having what they need when theyneed it is so important, and if
they don't, what do you do? So,I try to have my elevator speech
directed with little nuances,directed towards that person and
(16:15):
where they're coming from. Youknow, visual schedules is always
something I always get well,like, you don't, you know, like,
they should know their scheduleby now, and you know, they've
had their visual schedule. Theydon't need it anymore. Um, so
having those, having thoselittle sayings, or little ways
that I can tweak it and make itpersonable to that person is
(16:39):
really more my elevator speech.
I know that doesn't give you aspecific but.
Rebecca Hines (16:46):
No, that's, that's exactly that's exactly
right. I agree. I agree withthat. And then the reason I
asked you is because I feel likethose of us who work with kids
with disabilities in particular,we all need to have a response,
even shoulder to shoulder, forour peers who say it, because
it's just not intuitive toeveryone, and we can all do more
(17:07):
to communicate that idea of, youknow, what does AT actually do?
It just provides access.
Tiffanie Zaugg (17:15):
Well, I and I, I think this was a aha through my
dissertation process, when Iasked the teachers about their
future use of allowing studentsto use AI, and their comment to
me was, well, as long as theycan show me they know how to do
it first, and then it, somethingclicked in me, my AT part of my
(17:37):
world, and it's like, is thatwhere we're still having
barriers, right? Is it stillthat mindset that you have to
show mewithout technology, that you can
do something before I allow youto use technology to do that?
And that is truly a barrier thatwe've got to to figure out how
to to break that mindset in thatcycle. So if you, you know, if
(18:01):
you guys have some great ideas,I'm all for that too.
Lisa Dieker (18:07):
Well and I love that breaking the cycle that
kids can do science and mathwith AT, instead of let them do
science and math and then showthem AT. Well, thank you so much
for joining us today, Tiffanie.
And if you have any questions,please send us a Tweet @Access
Practical or on our Facebookpage, @Practical Access. Thank
you again for joining us, andcongratulations on your
doctorate.
Rebecca Hines (18:27):
Thank you.
Welcome to Practical Access. I'm Lisa
Dieker.
Rebecca Hines (00:10):
And I'm Rebecca Hines and Lisa, today's guest is
someone that we know has a broadexperience and background in
technology in general, todaywe're going to tap into a
specific area. Tell us what thatis.
Lisa Dieker (00:26):
Yeah, so we're excited to be talking about AT
support in science and math, butwe're equally excited to have a
friend and a colleague that wenow can call Dr. Tiffanie Zaugg.
Welcome Dr. Zaugg, we're so gladwe're with you, and we'll call
you Tiffanie from this pointforward.
Tiffanie Zaugg (00:42):
Thank you for having me.
Lisa Dieker (00:44):
So, I'm gonna kick off the first question. I am a
new teacher. I am teaching math,and I have a kid who's
struggling with comprehendingmath. What's what's a go to,
what assistive technology? Wheredo I go find who do I even talk
to to get this name? Does itjust fall into the my lap?
(01:07):
Where? Where do we start?
Tiffanie Zaugg (01:09):
Well, I would reach out to, you know, every
state does assistive technologya little differently. Who are
the, I hate using the wordexperts, because I feel like
everybody isn't. You know,technology changes so quickly
that everybody is an expert, orcould be an expert, but reach
(01:29):
out to if your district hassomeone, there's people at the
state level. There's statefunded or Office of Special
Education funded AT people. Butone of the things I would say is
really thinking about there is aframework that we use in
assistive technology called theSETT Framework, by Joy Zabala,
(01:53):
and it's really as a new teacheror new to assistive technology,
going through what SETT standsfor. First thing we want to talk
about is the student. What iswhat areas are the student
having issues with? I I eventhink about science, right?
Science, there's really not adisability for science, it's
more, do they have a reading isit a reading difficulty? Is it a
(02:15):
writing difficulty? Same waywith math, what is it that the
student is struggling with?
Right? So we really need to knowwhat it is about the student,
what's the environment? E isenvironment. Where is this
taking place? Is it math class?
Is it, I'm struggling with mathconcepts in science and social
science and mathematics, right?
And then what is the specifictask we want the student to be
(02:37):
able to do you know, are they?
Is it a physical disability?
Maybe struggling withhandwriting or lining up
problems? Is it executivefunctioning? All of those things
are important to be able tonarrow down. What if you'll
notice last the last thing, thelast T is tools, because we like
(02:58):
to jump to tools, right? Like,oh, you know, these are the fun
little things to do, but whenwe're talking about assistive
technology, we really need to gothrough the framework to get us
to what kind of tools arespecific to the students area of
need.
Rebecca Hines (03:16):
So, I definitely agree with all of those things
as someone who is has aninterest in AI, as I know you
do, do we now have some somesteps, you know, when I go
through that process? I knowyou've created a tool that is
designed for educators. Is therea way that we can help teachers
(03:39):
learn to look for solutionsthemselves or suggestions
themselves, so that they canhave a more clear request when
they go and try to find the toolthat they're looking for?
Tiffanie Zaugg (03:54):
So yes, if you or you for say, we'll just throw
EL out there. If I was a teacherand I was using my AI chat bot,
EL, I would be asking, I have astudent who is struggling in the
area of mathematics. I would bespecific as to what that that is
right, like, what task do I wantthem to be able to do. Is it a
(04:15):
multiplication? Is it? Is it,you know, they're struggling
with fractions what, and thenasking what tools are available,
or what assistive technology isavailable for that student.
Because, you know, there are somany from low tech to high tech,
and when I say low tech, I'mtalking like it could be a math
(04:39):
manipulative, right? Like Icould just go get pennies out of
my purse and be using that tohelp with money, right? So to
high tech, which could be, youknow, Equatio is a product by
Texthelp that is is formathematics, itmakes math
(05:00):
accessible. So there's just alot of different options. And
what I would say, first off,think about what you have
currently yourself, you know,like what tools, every product
is required, or every platform.
And when I say platform, I mean,is it a Mac? Is it a PC? Is it a
tablet? What accessibilityfeatures are built into them?
(05:23):
First, right? We always want touse what is readily available to
us. So for example, if you'restruggling with math, Microsoft
has a math website. I broughtthem up so I would remember all
(05:47):
of the different names. But,Microsoft has Math Solver, so
you can put a math problem inMath Solver and it's going to
solve it out and give you thestep-by-step on how to how to
solve a math problem. So reallythinking about what tools you
have available already builtinto your device, right? I just
(06:11):
saw that Apple, the IOS 18 iscoming out with a math tablet
that goes along with it's a mathnotebook, is what it's called,
and it's geared towards makingit accessible, making math
accessible on a tablet, oractually on an on an iPad,
(06:35):
right? iPad 18, and using thepencil and I can write out my
problems, it's going to help mesolve them and walk through it.
So, there's constantly newtechnology coming out,
obviously, which we know aboutMathGPT is something that's
brand new, or it's newer andit's using AI. And I just read
(06:59):
an article where a lot of thecolleges in California are using
it because they're not allowedto have basic math classes in
college anymore. So these aretools that we can be able to
use. One of the other things asI go down my my path here, there
(07:20):
is Inclusive 365 is a book. Itis a wet and there's also a
website that gives you 365different tools in specific
areas. So I could go in and Icould look it's inclusive365.com
is the website. I can go and sayI'm looking for something in
STEAM (07:48):
science, technology, education, arts and mathematics,
right? And it's going to give mea whole bunch of different
strategies that I could be usingin those areas. I could look for
it in reading like it has all ofthe different areas. So there's
a lot of great resources outthere that will help pull those
(08:08):
strategies you need specificallyfor students. So if I was a
beginning teacher, and if I hadwell, if I had my way, I would
make sure everybody had thatbook or the website, because it
does provide a lot of content,specific strategies. Mike
Marotta, Karen Janikowski, BethPoss and Christopher Bugaj are
(08:33):
the authors. They're worldrenowned AT people, and they've
just done a really great job ofgiving you an idea of different
tools, but it's contentspecific, task specific, and
that's really what we want tomake sure we're doing, instead
of just randomly throwing toolsat a student and seeing what
(08:58):
catches, which unfortunately hashappened a lot in the past.
Lisa Dieker (09:04):
Yeah, and that's and that's a great opening to
the question I wanted to askyou. So I hear this a lot, and I
know your answer will match myanswer, but people will say,
"Well, I don't know if that kidcan use text-to-speech, because
they can't use it on the statetests." And I'm like, Well, I
don't care, because one day outof the year isn't the same as
179 and kids will learn more ifthey can learn with ease. But,
(09:25):
but what I find teachers say tome, when they follow up with
that, like, okay, I get it.
That's okay. Is it? Like, "Idon't know what to use. I don't
know where to get it." So one ofthe things I've been
recommending, I'm kind ofcurious what you how you see is
that people have, like, a toolkit in their district. Like,
these are the 10 things. Becausethe problem comes that if a kid
moves a lot, or the kids instate A, they can have a
(09:48):
keyboard in state B, they can't.
You know, it becomes this wholecatch 22 but I'm kind of
curious, like, maybe, what areyour two or three go-tos that if
I'm a teacher, and I'm in arural school where there is no
AT support? It's me, myself andI or I'm, you know, a new
teacher, and I don't even knowwho to call, like, where would
(10:10):
be, besides the accessiblefeatures built in, like, what
should I make sure my studentsare having access to, kind of on
a daily basis? And how do I do Ibuild that skill set with the
little time I have?
Tiffanie Zaugg (10:23):
So, you talk about speech-to-text,
text-to-speech, I think thoseare any more to me. That's just
a given. I always like to usethe scenario that we those are
tools that are readilyavailable, that we're already
using, right? You've, thehistory of AT, you know,
(10:45):
everything starts as assistivetechnology, and then it gets to
the point where it becomesgeneral, and now we all have
access to it, right? So why notteach the students to use tools
that they already have? Youknow, the obviously having a
calculator available. I know itintrigues me that still today we
have the whole conversationabout, well, even calculators
(11:08):
are still cheating. And I'mlike, come on, people look good.
This is 2024, but having thatunderstanding of why those tools
are important and how to moveforward with those tools. So I
would say, use what's built in,because we know that all devices
(11:32):
have speech-to-text,text-to-speech built into them.
There's a calculator built inthere somewhere, right? And then
when you talk about state tests,I would consider looking at a
state test that has thoseaccessibility features built in,
because there are state testsnow that have those built in,
and pushing the envelope, and asAT people, that is something
(11:54):
we've been really trying to doin states, is pushing that,
those tools to get them built inso it's not a but they don't get
to use it on state test, right?
Lisa Dieker (12:06):
And yet, I argue too that I understand state
tests are validated. You know,two years ago, on a large sample
and tech changes before the testvalidated changes. But, yeah,
it's an interesting piece. And Iand, and yet I also think, and I
think you would agree that kidsshould know how to use the tech
themselves, like they should beable to say to the teacher, Hey,
(12:27):
these are the three tools I'musing. And if you have questions
about it, see me like I thinkwe're kind of in a new shift,
where it should be that I cometo school. So my last question
for you would be, is cellphones? There's a new trend
across the country of cellphones being put away. And yet,
it's a hard one for me to argue,because I'm just like, Bring on
the tech. Yet, I've been inschools where kids tell me they
(12:49):
love that their cell phones areput away. I've been in other
schools that have it. What? Whatdo you see as the trend in the
AT world, and that, especiallyin math and science, where it is
a tool for that? And that's,that's my last question. I'll
let you finish it up.
Tiffanie Zaugg (13:02):
Oh, you know that is I've been reading those
articles in the whole shift. Butthen I also have seen students,
where obviously their AT istheir phone, for example,
Bookshare, okay, if I am astudent that needs my textbooks
read to me, Bookshare is free tostudents with reading
(13:26):
disability, A I'm not. Mystudent doesn't have to carry 40
books in their backpack, right?
Like so there's some physicalthings, but having those books
with them at all times, in anall spaces that is accessible to
them at all times, I have a hardtime taking that away. So where,
(13:48):
where litigiously Are we goingto end up when a teacher tells a
student you can't have your cellphone, but it's a it's their
access to curriculum. So I thinkthere's gonna probably be,
unfortunately, some legal issuesthat arise by taking that. And I
(14:10):
know you could put Bookshare ona tablet, and then it becomes
their AT that way, but I look atit, my cell phone probably just
like yours, is my assistivetechnology. If I don't have my
calendar, I'm probably not goingto tell you what I'm supposed to
(14:32):
be doing today at 2:30 with Lisaand Becky.
Rebecca Hines (14:39):
Yeah, Tiffanie, I think that's a great a great
response. My My final question,I know that you have extensive
background working with teachersat the district and state level
in Iowa, what what is yourelevator speech? What is your
recurring statement? To thosewho are resistant to using AT
(15:03):
I'm sure you must have comeacross that throughout your
career.
Tiffanie Zaugg (15:07):
Oh, I do. My favorite, my favorite example of
this was I was doingprofessional development in a
school district, and the highschool basketball coach was a
social studies teacher. Andright away is like, oh, our
students don't need AT and AT,you know, blah, blah, blah was
(15:27):
going on, and I said to him, Isaid, I can think of assistive
technology that you do use in abasketball game on a regular
basis. You may not think aboutit as assistive technology, but
it's there when you need it, andyou have access to it, and what
would you do without it? Andhe's like, I don't either. And I
(15:49):
said, What about the scoreboard?
Right? A scoreboard is prettyimportant to a coach when the
time's ticking down in seconds,but having that available.
Having what they need when theyneed it is so important, and if
they don't, what do you do? So,I try to have my elevator speech
directed with little nuances,directed towards that person and
(16:15):
where they're coming from. Youknow, visual schedules is always
something I always get well,like, you don't, you know, like,
they should know their scheduleby now, and you know, they've
had their visual schedule. Theydon't need it anymore. Um, so
having those, having thoselittle sayings, or little ways
that I can tweak it and make itpersonable to that person is
(16:39):
really more my elevator speech.
I know that doesn't give you aspecific but.
Rebecca Hines (16:46):
No, that's, that's exactly that's exactly
right. I agree. I agree withthat. And then the reason I
asked you is because I feel likethose of us who work with kids
with disabilities in particular,we all need to have a response,
even shoulder to shoulder, forour peers who say it, because
it's just not intuitive toeveryone, and we can all do more
(17:07):
to communicate that idea of, youknow, what does AT actually do?
It just provides access.
Tiffanie Zaugg (17:15):
Well, I and I, I think this was a aha through my
dissertation process, when Iasked the teachers about their
future use of allowing studentsto use AI, and their comment to
me was, well, as long as theycan show me they know how to do
it first, and then it, somethingclicked in me, my AT part of my
(17:37):
world, and it's like, is thatwhere we're still having
barriers, right? Is it stillthat mindset that you have to
show mewithout technology, that you can
do something before I allow youto use technology to do that?
And that is truly a barrier thatwe've got to to figure out how
to to break that mindset in thatcycle. So if you, you know, if
(18:01):
you guys have some great ideas,I'm all for that too.
Lisa Dieker (18:07):
Well and I love that breaking the cycle that
kids can do science and mathwith AT, instead of let them do
science and math and then showthem AT. Well, thank you so much
for joining us today, Tiffanie.
And if you have any questions,please send us a Tweet @Access
Practical or on our Facebookpage, @Practical Access. Thank
you again for joining us, andcongratulations on your
doctorate.
Rebecca Hines (18:27):
Thank you.
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