The moment a language student first connects with a native speaker is electric—that realization that "I can actually do this!" This transformative experience is precisely why students enroll in language classes, yet ironically, interpersonal communication often receives the least classroom time.
Devon Gunning dives deep into this paradox, examining why speaking activities frequently take a backseat to reading and writing in world language classrooms. Beyond the obvious classroom management challenges, she reveals how educational priorities have shifted toward literacy-focused initiatives at the expense of authentic communication practice.
Drawing from years of classroom experience teaching Spanish and French, Devon shares practical strategies for integrating more interpersonal activities without creating management nightmares. From structured speaking quizzes and info gap activities to classroom passwords and human scavenger hunts, these approaches work even for novice-level learners. Her innovative "Soul Train" and "Speed Dating" techniques provide frameworks that make speaking practice engaging rather than intimidating.
The key mindset shift? Viewing yourself as a "party host" rather than a traditional teacher—someone who facilitates connections between students through compelling questions and scaffolded support. Devon walks through a gradual confidence-building approach, starting with small groups before moving to pairs and eventually individual responses.
This episode challenges the conventional wisdom of language education, arguing that the most valuable skills are often the hardest to assess—and that we must prioritize them anyway. "You cannot drill communicative ability," Devon reminds us, quoting Bill VanPatten. "It develops when we find ourselves in communicative contexts."
Ready to revolutionize your language classroom? Devon's practical challenge to carve out just 10% more time for interpersonal communication could transform your students' language acquisition journey. Listen now to discover how making speaking the "secret sauce" of your instruction can ignite student engagement and proficiency.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, keloke Et salut world language teachers.
Welcome to the PracticalProficiency Podcast, where we
make the transition toproficiency-oriented instruction
in your world language class ina way that works for you, your
unique context and teachingstyle, and doesn't sacrifice
(00:21):
your well-being along the way.
I'm your host, devon Gunning,the teacher author, conference
host, curriculum creator andconsultant behind La Libre
Language Learning.
This podcast is for thecreative world language teacher
like you who's ready to ditchthe overwhelming pressure of
switching to acquisition-driveninstruction and CI overnight.
(00:42):
You're ready to discover howusing more target language in
class can actually bring you andyour students more joy instead
of adding to your plate.
With practical, authentic anddown-to-earth strategies that
don't require reinventing thewheel or more training, we'll
work together towards the magicof a community-based,
(01:04):
target-language-rich classroom,rooted in the power of community
and comprehensible input.
Let's go.
Welcome back to the PracticalProficiency Podcast.
I'm so excited to talk to youtoday.
(01:25):
We are jamming out today abouta subject that is near and dear
to my heart, which is doing morespeaking interpersonal, the key
ingredient, the secret sauce,that thing that is missing in
your world language classenvironment.
So let's get into it.
(01:47):
In this episode, I'm going totalk to you about why it is the
secret ingredient for successfor your students, why it seems
to be the one that is hardestfor us to do in class.
And, of course, you know mepractical ways that you can
start doing more ofinterpersonal activities and
assessments in your classwithout it being a giant
(02:10):
classroom management headache.
So let's get into it.
Let's first talk about whyinterpersonal.
Why is this so important?
Well, first of all,interpersonal, as you well know,
let's think about why you are aworld language teacher.
Think back to that experiencethat you had interacting with a
(02:32):
native speaker or somebody whospeaks the language that you
teach, and how it felt toconnect with somebody for the
first time, when you felt likeyou had just a little tiny grasp
on the conversation orunderstood a little bit of what
that person was saying to you.
Electric right and that's themoment that made you want to
keep working hard towards thislanguage is when you realize
(02:56):
like, oh dang, I can actually dothis.
I can speak another language orsign in another language.
And your students are in yourclass and they have enrolled for
the exact same reason.
They might be in love with theculture or the music or the food
, but they could also just cookthat food at home if they really
(03:19):
wanted to, or if they have afamily member who speaks that
language, like they couldappreciate it in another way for
sure.
But there's nothing quite likeactually using the language in
the way that you want to, andthat is why we're here, y'all.
That is why students havesigned up to take your class.
Sure, I taught Spanish 1-2.
(03:41):
I know that there are a ton ofkids who are in your class
because they feel like theydon't have other options and
they didn't actually one too.
I know that there are a ton ofkids who are in your class
because they feel like theydon't have other options and
they didn't actually sign up.
I get it.
But guess what?
A lot of those feelings go outthe door when you show them how
real world your class really is.
Because Spanish is such auseful language, and so is
French, because I also taughtFrench one.
(04:02):
But we can only show them howuseful it is if they actually
get to use it in class.
Now, my specialty is Spanishone and French one.
So, no, we're not just going tobe talking about how your upper
level quote, unquote kids canuse more language in class.
Class I'm talking about, inlevel one, how you can do, when
(04:27):
it's appropriate, moreinterpersonal tasks, and even in
level one, how you canappropriately build up to this
so that your students can dowhat they signed up to do, why
they're here, which is be more,connect more with other speakers
of this amazing language thatyou teach, and be more connected
to global citizens in theirenvironment.
(04:47):
So let's get into it here.
Interpersonal is really themissing ingredient in here.
We've talked about why studentsare here, and the real reason
is because they want to interactand they want to speak.
However, what's getting in theway?
I mean, don't we teach worldlanguage?
Isn't that the whole point?
But take a look at your lessonplans and just think about what
you're planning to do this week.
(05:09):
What percentage of time isactually spent in communicative
contexts?
How much of that time do yourstudents actually get to try out
their communicative skills?
When are they actually going tobe responding to questions from
you?
And in level one, when I sayresponding to questions, I
(05:29):
literally mean saying we knowthat's really what you're
looking for for the first couplemonths, although I'm recording
this in the springtime.
You may be listening to itlater on, but at this point in
class, your students willprobably be able to answer
things like either, or questionsas well, or be able to find
some common ground between themand their peers, like oh, moi
(05:51):
aussi, or yo tambien me too,things like that.
So when I'm saying doing anykind of interpersonal work,
that's really all you need forlevel one, and then your twos,
threes and fours.
Of course, more will beexpected from them.
But yeah, even in level one,how much of your day are they
getting any kind ofinterpersonal communicative
(06:12):
context?
So I would say that's the firstissue that we have on our
plates here is that we simplydon't spend enough time doing
this in class, and I get itbecause I didn't use to spend
enough time doing it either,even though speaking was the
focus of my class.
I find that every world languageteacher has their focus, and
(06:33):
speaking was mine.
Some people are more intoliteracy and reading and some
people are more into writingskills, but for me, speaking is
the whole reason that studentsare in class and that's what
we're going to focus on, even inlevel one.
So let's talk about those otherfocuses for a second and why.
I am going to perhaps rufflesome feathers and tell you that
(06:54):
your focus really should bespeaking, because in a school
environment things can often geta bit kerfuffled, we'll say,
since you are in a quote-unquoteacademic subject, people will
mistake something that is astactile, as real-world and as
skill-based as interacting in alanguage or signing in a
(07:17):
language.
They still think that thatmeans lots of worksheets, lots
of paper and lots of writing andreading, and although we know
that reading drives acquisition,we know that from a lot of
research, there's also thisimportant piece of interaction.
It's input plus interactionthat makes the difference.
(07:37):
So what's the differencebetween a book and a book?
Our classes, even though theyare technically, academically
built, they are skills.
They are not an academicsubject.
You cannot teach French thesame way that the teacher across
from you who's teaching Englishteaches English.
You cannot teach it the sameway the history teacher does, or
the science or the math teacher.
(07:58):
If you've heard any of mypodcast episodes, you probably
heard me talk about this before,because it's really important
is this mindset shift that weall need to do, and this is one
of the reasons why interpersonalskills are so lacking in North
American world language students.
So, with this idea in mind,think about it this way, since
literacy is a hugely importantinitiative justifiably so in at
(08:22):
least the United States, whichis is my teaching experience.
It has taken over many otherclassroom initiatives and we can
certainly do our part in worldlanguage and in a lot of states
it's even mandated.
I know in my state in southcarolina we have to do a certain
amount of literacy work inclass.
However, think about it we'relanguage, we are a world.
(08:45):
However, think about it, we'rea language, we are a world
language.
Acquiring a language naturallyboosts literacy.
Bilingual students do better inevery version of tests that
they've done when they comparehow well they can make
connections between words, howfluently they can cross between
ideas.
There is so much power to behad when your students have
(09:08):
competency in another language.
So I would say that our focusaside from the legal things that
you have to do in yourclassroom because I know that's
a reality but aside from thatfocus, I am not really okay with
hearing in meetings anymorejustifying a huge excess of
writing assignments, especiallyin level one and level two.
(09:30):
Whenever I work withdepartments and things and I see
what they have lined up for theweek or for the month and the
types of finals that they'regiving.
It is hugely overburdened withwriting assignments instead of
the whole point that studentsare there, which is speaking.
So let's dial back on this ideathat more writing and more
reading will contribute tostudents' literacy skills.
(09:51):
Acquiring a language in generalwill, of course, expand the
language centers, all thedifferent language centers of
the brain, and will add on to astudent's ability, once they're
in high school, to do better onthe SATs, do better in all other
realms of literacy focused work.
And asking students to do moreliteracy focused reading not
(10:15):
like reading for acquisition,but like long paragraphs of more
difficult language things likethat, as well as long sections
of writing that are notappropriate for their
proficiency level that this pushtowards literacy is actually
detrimental, because theliteracy focus really happens.
That magic happens in a worldlanguage classroom when students
(10:39):
are reading, compelling inputat their proficiency level and
then responding to it.
That's where we can work on theliteracy.
And, of course, we can do thatall day long, because reading in
the target language doesnothing but benefit our students
when it's at the appropriatelevel.
The other side that I wouldthink about this is that there's
(10:59):
also this element of rigor thatI would like to address.
Reading in the target languageis hard enough, you don't need
to add anything to it.
Writing in the target languageis hard enough.
You don't have to add any otherextra layers to it.
Your students are still inlevels one and two.
They're working towards thegoal of novice high.
(11:21):
That is an appropriate goal forif you're in middle school or
high school, a novice programNow is an appropriate goal for,
if you're in middle school orhigh school, a novice program
Now.
I was just working with anotherschool internationally who has a
multilingual population, sotheir students will be moving
through this faster.
So make sure that you'relooking at your school context
to see what that might be foryou.
But for the majority of schoolsin a North American context, if
(11:43):
your students are having are inyour program for approximately
a year for level one and thenapproximately a year for the
second stage of that course,whatever it may be, then yeah,
you're moving towards novicehigh.
So with that in mind, yourlanguage activities should be
appropriate for that proficiencyskill and for output for novice
(12:07):
high.
You're really looking at likenine sentences, maybe 12, if
your students are reachingtowards intermediate low and
they're not going to be likecute connected ideas.
They're going to be repetitivephrases that are just going to
recycle the things that theyalready know how to say, and
there's going to be a few littleconjunctions in there that will
(12:27):
make you excited, but there'sgoing to be some errors and
they're going to have to workreally hard to get sequential
ideas in there.
So that's what we're lookingfor in this stage of the game.
That is an appropriate measureof your student's proficiency.
If you're trying to go for more,you're taking away precious
time from the interaction andthe communicative settings that
(12:49):
they can only get in class.
They can only get that in class.
I'm not a huge fan of this, butif you really need to, your
students can do writingassignments at home, but they
can only interact with you inclass.
It is such a precious skillthat will give them the most
bang for their buck.
So, with that in mind, lookingat my notes here, oh, I want to
(13:11):
bring this all home, with thisidea of literacy in the world
language classroom being really,really important, but putting
that towards the books thatyou're assigning, the novels
that you're assigning, thereading time that you're
assigning and not focusing on.
Well, let's make our writingassignments stronger, or let's
(13:32):
make them more complex, or let'sgive them full-length articles
written for native speakers andcall that our reading assignment
for the day and that we'repromoting literacy.
Because, surprise, you're not.
They can't read that, unlessyou're adjusting the task for
the text, of course.
So think of it this way if youwere the music teacher and you
(13:55):
were teaching such an importantskill like expressing yourself
through music, a way tounderstand the world and other
people around you through music,and you were taking away the
only time they have in classwith you to learn more about
being more proficient in theirinstrument and handing them
articles to read in order toboost their literacy, don't you
(14:17):
think your district would beupset, and rightly so?
That's not why they're here.
You are improving theirliteracy by helping them learn
to read music, which isincredibly difficult, trust me.
I've been there.
I played an instrument for 12years and I loved it, but it's a
difficult skill to read music.
So that's the same thing forlanguage teachers is.
You're far more like the musicteacher.
(14:38):
You're far more like thewelding teacher or the gym
teacher or the art teacher.
If you're taking away time frompainting in class in order to
read, then you're not doing yourstudents a good service, unless
the reading is with athoroughly comprehensible novel
where you are reading all of thetime with compelling and
(15:01):
interesting and short,appropriate level of materials
and there's a whole podcastepisode about that with
DigiLangua, the DigiGals, whowill talk more about the
importance of literacy and howto do it right.
So let's not carve into ourprecious class time,
interpersonal time, by doing toomuch writing.
So, with that in mind, you'veheard my giant soapbox about why
(15:22):
I think we're not spendingenough time doing, speaking or
interacting in conversations inclass.
There's another important pieceto this is that, in addition to
the ideas we've already talkedabout, there's this whole thing
called classroom management,which makes it very difficult to
lead any type of interactiveactivity in class where you have
(15:46):
you having a conversation withstudents or students having
conversations with each other.
That's so hard to do.
So we're going to talk abouthow we can make that easier.
Now it's really chaotic in aclassroom environment, even if
you have a, you have a reallygood handle on classroom
management and you only have 13students.
Or if you're like me and you'regood at classroom management,
(16:09):
but you have 35 students andthey have a lot going on and
half of them don't even want tobe there, so it's a whole thing.
This is what I used to do inthose types of environments.
First of all, I would say, too,that a lot of people don't make
enough time for this, not onlybecause it's hard to do, but
because it's really difficult togive a grade to these right,
like when you are working in aclassroom setting.
(16:32):
It's so much easier to justpick up a tangible piece of
paper or an assignment and put agrade in the gradebook for that
right.
That's so much easier.
It's so much less stressful.
Students get it.
You get it, I get it, you getit, I get it.
Frankly, however, the intangibleskills are the most important.
If we don't give our studentsenough opportunities to use the
(16:52):
language in a meaningful way andgive them sentence starters and
scaffolding and things likethat, so that when you give them
a question they know how toanswer it, then what are they
going to do when it comes timefor well, practically speaking,
the speaking final that you'reabout to give them at the end of
the year or, even worse, thewhole point of the class, which
is to learn how to speak andinteract?
If you don't give them anychances to do it.
(17:15):
They're going to have a hardtime with it.
Simple as that.
So here's the how, and I'mgoing to give you examples from
a level one point of view,because honestly, I think that's
the hardest class to do this in.
And then if you teach higherlevels, you can, of course,
adapt these.
So because your students have alittle bit more in I was
actually it's a perfect analogymore in their language iceberg.
(17:39):
I was just doing an interviewtoday with Bryce Hedstrom that
y'all will see at Practical andComprehensible, my free
conference for comprehensibleinput.
Enthusiast teachers Come andhang out with me this summer,
july 8th through 11th.
My first presentation we didtoday with Bryce and he was
talking about the languageiceberg, which is the idea that
(17:59):
in a student's language ability,in their heads, they have the
iceberg, where, if you look atit, the tip of the iceberg is
what they're able to say and thebottom of the iceberg all that
stuff underneath, like 80% ofwhat you can't see is how much
they can understand from you.
So with that language iceberg,we do really need to build that
(18:22):
up first.
It is important that yourstudents have enough input
before they can start to use anyof that output that they have
on the tip of their iceberg.
Here are some of the hows thatI would make this happen in
level ones, and then, of course,in levels two, three and four.
If their language icebergs arebigger, then you'll be able to
(18:42):
expand on these ideas too.
But in level one, these were mygo-tos to make speaking a focus
in my class.
Again, once it was appropriate,after like two to three months
of solid input, I would schedulespeaking quizzes and, honestly,
I would do this from the verybeginning of class for my own
reasons.
There's a whole blog post onthis.
If you want more information,I'll link it in the show notes
(19:04):
below.
But in level one, yeah, I usedto do simple speaking quizzes
every two weeks and this was ahigh school class block schedule
, 90 minutes.
So they would have, you know, agood four weeks quote unquote
before they would work on aspeaking quiz.
But I would schedule speakingquizzes regularly and they would
(19:25):
be very simple Two to threesimple questions that we would
review quite a bit and I wouldgive them a lot of practice on
how to answer it.
And it would technically bemore of a performance assessment
than a proficiency assessment,performance being that they had
rehearsed the language a lot,that they they knew and they
were ready for that task.
Performance is not a bad thing.
(19:46):
It's actually very appropriatein level one.
You're not going to find a lotof proficiency again if their
language icebergs are prettysmall, so I'm not going to ask
them a spontaneous question inlevel one.
They're not ready for that, notmaybe until the end when
they're more displaying novicemid or novice high.
To prepare for speaking quizzesand make sure that students were
ready for these, we would do alot of activities in class to
(20:08):
get them ready, especially theday of the speaking quiz, so
everything would be really freshin their mind.
We would do things beforehand,called info gaps.
Info gap activities are thesewonderful ways where you can
give students in pairs differentpieces of information and they
need to ask each other questionsabout it in order to get the
(20:30):
full picture.
Simple, simple, simplequestions On one of my
activities that I have for saleon TPT.
It looks like this it's aphysical personality description
deal and there's pictures ofdifferent people and student A
has four pictures and student Bhas four different pictures and
(20:51):
student B has the clues aboutstudent A's pictures and student
A has the clues about studentB's pictures, and they have to
ask each other questions tofigure out oh, who was that
person?
And match them up, kind of deal.
So that's what an info gapactivity can look like.
It can be as simple as doesyour person have curly hair?
And they would say yes or no?
(21:11):
How about brown eyes?
Or blue eyes or green eyes?
And the person would have torespond my person has green eyes
, and that would be your answer.
So that's how you can do infogap activities, and you can do
that in so many different ways.
I mean, I used to do them inclass when I was a seventh grade
french student where my teacherwould give us a slip of paper
(21:34):
like info gap activities are oldas the game itself that my
teacher would give us one slipof paper to one partner.
That would be like you're goingto this, this place in France,
and your other friend is goingto this place in France.
These are some key, cool placesin that area.
You have to guess where yourpartner is going, stuff like
that.
So on that sheet of paper,though, I would say where we've
(21:57):
come from since my seventh gradeclass is.
You should put some hints orsome questions on there to help
them with that info gap activityso that they know how to ask
the questions, because askingquestions is really hard for
level one students.
It's a novice high skill,really, I would say too.
Another thing that you can do isdo classroom passwords.
This way, students are used toproducing language or answering
(22:21):
questions from you.
If it's a call and response,question answer type deal, what
are classroom passwords?
They are, oh my god, so muchfun.
This is another Bryce Hestromtactic, actually, that he taught
me, but he invented these as away to create classroom
community as well as teach hisstudents cool Spanish idioms.
The way it works is you set apassword for the week and
(22:43):
students cannot get in your doorunless they answer your
question correctly or say theclassroom password, and you get
to set a new one every week, andI would do things like write
the password on the board sothey'd be able to see it, you
know, but it's a really nicetradition that helps your
students get used to producingevery single day.
Another thing that you should bedoing, if you're not already,
(23:05):
is have a routine for classroomconversations.
I ask the people who study withme the ways to make
comprehensible input morepractical in your classroom.
Through my membership, thePractical Proficiency Network,
we do this tradition and thisroutine.
I teach every student in hereto do it, which is doing
(23:28):
structured classroomconversations.
I give every student in thatprogram a goal of get to the
point where you can talk everyday, or at least you know, start
with two to three times a week,if you need to, for three
minutes with your students andwe talk about how to do it.
You know ways to instillroutines, things like that, and
then we move up to five minutesand then 10 minutes and then 15
(23:48):
minutes and then doing theroutine every single day.
There is nothing that will giveyour students a better
communicative ability thanactually conversing with you in
the target language.
Now it doesn't look likethey're doing much speaking at
first, honestly, because reallythey're just going to be
responding to you with yes or noquestions, or either or
(24:10):
questions.
That's really all it looks like.
And some other activities I usedto do with students is I would
do things like a human scavengerhunt, where you would give them
like, let's say, it's a familyunit.
You would give them somepre-written questions on a
simple worksheet that says likedo you have an aunt who lives
(24:30):
nearby, or do you have a halfbrother or a half sister or
something like that?
You ask them.
You know nine or ten questionsand then you give them the
assignment.
You have to go around the roomand ask students in your class
to sign if this is true for them.
So it involves a lot ofinteraction.
It will involve you making surethat everybody uses the target
(24:53):
language, because they'lltotally want to teach and do it
in english, or just not sayanything and sign each other's
papers.
So make sure that you'rewalking around and ensuring that
they're using the targetlanguage.
This is a really easy way toget around that problem of how
do I grade speaking assignmentsor how do I grade these easily
is go around the room, make surethat everybody's using the
target language and then at theend of class, collect all of the
(25:16):
signature papers and you cansee who did it and who didn't.
That kind of deal.
But my two favorite ones forthis are my own personal
creations, and that is SoulTrain and Speed Dating.
They're not really my creations, but they're just like twists
on classic themes.
But whenever I would have aspeaking quiz day, I would ask
students to get in a tunnelright across from each other
(25:40):
somewhere in the room so thatthey're moving and working with
different people all the time.
I would give them a questionand say here's the question, and
it would be something like howold are you, in the target
language, like cuántos añostienes, and they would have to
answer it to each other and then, as soon as they answered to
each other, the two people atthe very front of the soul train
would have to go through thesoul train and then they would
(26:03):
move to the back.
Oh, actually it was only oneperson, so that you'd have only
one side moving each time.
That way, this side wouldalways have somebody new to talk
to and it allows students toget that repetition that they
need of working with thatquestion you know multiple times
without getting super bored.
The other thing that I would dois if your students would
prefer to be seated, as manyhigh school students would like
(26:24):
to be, is they can still movearound, but be seated by doing
something called speed dating,where you move the desk so that
they're facing each other.
Same concept, except eachquestion they are going to move
seats and talk to somebody new.
So those are some simple ideasthat you can do, but I would say
all of the time forinterpersonal activities.
(26:45):
When you're looking forsomething to make this easier to
do in your class and get moreresponse from students, keep in
mind you're a party host in yourclass.
The whole point of being aworld language teacher, or
really a world languagefacilitator, is that you are
looking for opportunities tohelp students connect with each
(27:06):
other through the targetlanguage, which means borrow
from all the fun party gamesthat are out there and find fun
questions that would get theminterested in talking to you and
answering questions from you.
So anytime that you can findthings that are like really fun
this or that, or icebreakerswould you rather all of that you
(27:27):
can do that in the targetlanguage.
That makes a huge difference.
So keep in mind that whole idea, this mindset shift that is so
crucial to being a good languagefacilitator, is that you are a
party host.
Your job is to be reallyinterested in your students, ask
them questions so that theywant to answer and be interested
in their answers and keep theconversation going.
(27:48):
That's it.
It's very simple to say andit's very difficult to execute,
which is why that simple ideawill require some practice, for
sure.
I would say, too, something thatyou can do to make this a lot
more practical on your side isthere are tons and tons of
activities available onlinewhere you can avoid the question
.
I'm thinking of things likewhere your students don't
(28:13):
necessarily have to have theireyes on you all the time or they
don't have to be constantlyasking questions of each other,
but you can get those littlequestion cards, sets of question
cards and conversation startersand things that they can ask
each other, and you can handthose out and have those be
activities that they work onwith each other.
They can ask each otherquestions, or they can come up
(28:34):
to you and get points for askingquestions, things like that.
Anything that you can do toavoid the question, like posting
the question on the board orhave students answer the
questions with each other.
That makes a big difference,because the question is usually
the barrier.
It's the hardest part.
Now, with that in mind, I wouldsay that another reason why
(28:57):
interpersonal activities getneglected is because, let's face
it, you might be feeling alittle neglected too.
How many times have you donethis awesome speaking activity
or conversation activity orpartner activity and your
students didn't do crap with it.
They were not responding.
You were getting a lot ofcrickets, whatever it might be.
(29:19):
We're going to troubleshootthat a little bit.
Right now, I have a lot, a lot,a lot of information about this
on my blog for you too as well,and on my YouTube channel.
There's tons of things that youcan find for what to do if
you're hearing crickets, how toget more response, engagement
all of that.
(29:41):
But in a nutshell, when it comesspecifically to interpersonal,
I would like to say that,besides the usual suspects for
engagement, that there's someother things going on here as to
why your students aren'tresponding to these types of
activities.
First thing is to think of thisIf you are asking your students
to answer a question on thespot from you in front of all of
their peers and that's thefirst way that you're
(30:02):
introducing any type ofcommunicative activity to them
you're going to encounter a lotof crickets.
Some students may becomfortable with that, but most
of them will not be.
Try this instead.
There's safety in numbers, andyour students don't have that
confidence in theircommunication yet, so can you
build on it?
(30:23):
I would say.
A huge reason that yourstudents are not responding to
you is because they don't havethe confidence yet in the
language and it's our job tobuild that up.
So what does that look like?
It means you're going to askthem extremely simple questions
like simpler than you think theyneed to be with extremely
(30:43):
sheltered vocabulary not grammar, but sheltered vocabulary where
you know they'll be able tounderstand your question and you
can provide them anything theyneed to help with one word or
two.
But if you need to break downthe whole question, then the
first problem is the question.
Let's assume that your questionis a good one.
It's appropriate for theirlevel, it's completely
(31:05):
comprehensible, all that jazz,and they're just having trouble
responding to you.
Start with this to build theirconfidence, safety in numbers,
work first in groups of four tofive and allow students to hear
the question from you first andthen answer with each other in
their little groups.
So they're going to answer toeach other and they're not going
(31:26):
to say it out loud to the classat first.
They're just they're going tosay to each other.
You will give them plenty oftime to do so.
Even if they start breaking offinto little chattery groups,
it's okay.
Walk around the room to eachgroup and hear each person's
response and talk to them.
Talk it through with them Ifyou're noticing that they're
having trouble with how torespond to you, because you
might discover, like, ooh, Ithought they would know how to
(31:49):
answer this because we've goneover it, but I'm noticing that
they're forgetting thisimportant verb structure.
And then you can write asentence starter for them on the
board and have them try itagain.
So go around the room and dothat feedback round.
Then, the next time you trysomething like this, do it in
groups of three, make the groupa little bit smaller, let them
answer with each other, and thendo that small one-on-one
(32:11):
interaction with them to checkin and see how are these answers
going.
And then, of course, anystudent that you know is needing
a little bit more support.
You can give that support.
Then you can put them inpartner groups, and I would say
too that, if classroommanagement allows it, let them
work with people they'refamiliar working with.
This is the hardest skillyou're asking them to do in your
class ever.
This is really difficult.
(32:32):
So allow them to work withpeople that they're comfortable
with and then, once you'restarting to whittle down, to
like, okay, it's been two weeks,they've been working in
partners for a while.
I bet you they're ready forone-on-one now.
So now you can do some of thoseactivities where you can ask,
like in the middle of class, belike hey, jeremy, what do you
(32:52):
think about this, do you preferbananas or oranges?
And they'll be like naranjas,like so proudly.
That's where you'll start tosee that confidence happening,
because they've been given lotsand lots of trial runs to make
it happen first, and you've alsobeen giving them lots of
language and input so thatthey're ready for it right.
Wink, wink, hint, hint.
(33:19):
I would say too that a hugething that you can do to build
your students' confidence isprovide them with the language
they need to be successful.
Give them rejoinders, give themways to respond to you that
aren't just like okay or yes orno, like they want to respond to
you.
You need to show them how andif they need help, they also
need that.
To show them things like noentiendo, like.
(33:41):
Show them how to say thingslike I don't understand, so that
you can keep the conversationgoing in your target language.
Also, don't forget this is mylast tip for you Do not forget
the sentence starters, eventhough you may have gone over
that structure a million timesin class.
You're talking aboutcommunicative context.
Communicative context is adifferent part of your brain
(34:03):
than the memorization section ofyour brain.
We're talking about thedifference between declarative
and procedural those are reallyfancy terms for saying stuff
that your brain can consciouslypull out and stuff that your
brain can unconsciously rely on.
This is the acquisition part ofthis game.
So if you are teaching a lot ofvocabulary words and focusing a
(34:24):
lot on grammar, then you arefocusing on declarative stuff.
This is stuff that yourstudents can pull from memory,
that maybe they can constructsome things with.
But like kind of clumsily, andif you give them not very many
opportunities to communicatethat whole section of their
brain, the communicative area isgonna be pretty empty and
(34:48):
they're not gonna know how to doit.
You need to give them lots andlots of opportunities to do this
in order for that skillset tobuild up.
That muscle will be weak untilyou work it.
So I will leave you with thisthought.
This is a quote from BBP BillVan Patten, from the language
educator 15 years ago.
This is not a new idea.
(35:09):
It's from a long time ago thatyou cannot drill communicative
ability.
It develops when we findourselves in communicative
contexts.
So I will leave you with thisthought to mull on the idea of
how you can make interpersonalthe secret ingredient that it
(35:32):
deserves to be in your classroom.
How many times this week canyou schedule some sort of
interpersonal opportunity?
But before that, how can youset your students up for success
in interpersonal communicativecontexts?
By giving them the right amountof input, lots and lots of
comprehensible things to read,as well as structured, scheduled
(35:58):
and scaffolded opportunities tointeract in a way that is
appropriate for their level, sothat when it comes time for when
you do the big thing thateverybody always judges their
success of their class on, whichis, oh, we're going to do
speaking now, if you don't spendenough of your time in class
giving them opportunities tospeak and sign, you will get
(36:19):
what you work for.
So my challenge to you is tocarve out at least 10% even more
, but 10% is the minimum I'mlooking for.
Carve out 10% more time in yourlesson plans this week for your
students to interact with youand interact with each other,
and you will be amazed to seehow much just that small change
(36:40):
will help your students'communicative ability and the
communicative centers of theirbrains to grow and thrive and,
of course, lead to the wholegoal acquisition and interacting
with native speakers.
Thank you so much for sharingsome of your time with me your
commute with me, maybe and I'mexcited to hear what you think
about this episode and to getyour students conversing with
(37:01):
each other or signing with eachother more.
This is Devin signing out and Ihope to hang out with you for
our next episode.
Bye for now.
What's up, keloke Et salut world language teachers.
Welcome to the PracticalProficiency Podcast, where we
make the transition toproficiency-oriented instruction
in your world language class ina way that works for you, your
unique context and teachingstyle, and doesn't sacrifice
(00:21):
your well-being along the way.
I'm your host, devon Gunning,the teacher author, conference
host, curriculum creator andconsultant behind La Libre
Language Learning.
This podcast is for thecreative world language teacher
like you who's ready to ditchthe overwhelming pressure of
switching to acquisition-driveninstruction and CI overnight.
(00:42):
You're ready to discover howusing more target language in
class can actually bring you andyour students more joy instead
of adding to your plate.
With practical, authentic anddown-to-earth strategies that
don't require reinventing thewheel or more training, we'll
work together towards the magicof a community-based,
(01:04):
target-language-rich classroom,rooted in the power of community
and comprehensible input.
Let's go.
Welcome back to the PracticalProficiency Podcast.
I'm so excited to talk to youtoday.
(01:25):
We are jamming out today abouta subject that is near and dear
to my heart, which is doing morespeaking interpersonal, the key
ingredient, the secret sauce,that thing that is missing in
your world language classenvironment.
So let's get into it.
(01:47):
In this episode, I'm going totalk to you about why it is the
secret ingredient for successfor your students, why it seems
to be the one that is hardestfor us to do in class.
And, of course, you know mepractical ways that you can
start doing more ofinterpersonal activities and
assessments in your classwithout it being a giant
(02:10):
classroom management headache.
So let's get into it.
Let's first talk about whyinterpersonal.
Why is this so important?
Well, first of all,interpersonal, as you well know,
let's think about why you are aworld language teacher.
Think back to that experiencethat you had interacting with a
(02:32):
native speaker or somebody whospeaks the language that you
teach, and how it felt toconnect with somebody for the
first time, when you felt likeyou had just a little tiny grasp
on the conversation orunderstood a little bit of what
that person was saying to you.
Electric right and that's themoment that made you want to
keep working hard towards thislanguage is when you realize
(02:56):
like, oh dang, I can actually dothis.
I can speak another language orsign in another language.
And your students are in yourclass and they have enrolled for
the exact same reason.
They might be in love with theculture or the music or the food
, but they could also just cookthat food at home if they really
(03:19):
wanted to, or if they have afamily member who speaks that
language, like they couldappreciate it in another way for
sure.
But there's nothing quite likeactually using the language in
the way that you want to, andthat is why we're here, y'all.
That is why students havesigned up to take your class.
Sure, I taught Spanish 1-2.
(03:41):
I know that there are a ton ofkids who are in your class
because they feel like theydon't have other options and
they didn't actually one too.
I know that there are a ton ofkids who are in your class
because they feel like theydon't have other options and
they didn't actually sign up.
I get it.
But guess what?
A lot of those feelings go outthe door when you show them how
real world your class really is.
Because Spanish is such auseful language, and so is
French, because I also taughtFrench one.
(04:02):
But we can only show them howuseful it is if they actually
get to use it in class.
Now, my specialty is Spanishone and French one.
So, no, we're not just going tobe talking about how your upper
level quote, unquote kids canuse more language in class.
Class I'm talking about, inlevel one, how you can do, when
(04:27):
it's appropriate, moreinterpersonal tasks, and even in
level one, how you canappropriately build up to this
so that your students can dowhat they signed up to do, why
they're here, which is be more,connect more with other speakers
of this amazing language thatyou teach, and be more connected
to global citizens in theirenvironment.
(04:47):
So let's get into it here.
Interpersonal is really themissing ingredient in here.
We've talked about why studentsare here, and the real reason
is because they want to interactand they want to speak.
However, what's getting in theway?
I mean, don't we teach worldlanguage?
Isn't that the whole point?
But take a look at your lessonplans and just think about what
you're planning to do this week.
(05:09):
What percentage of time isactually spent in communicative
contexts?
How much of that time do yourstudents actually get to try out
their communicative skills?
When are they actually going tobe responding to questions from
you?
And in level one, when I sayresponding to questions, I
(05:29):
literally mean saying we knowthat's really what you're
looking for for the first couplemonths, although I'm recording
this in the springtime.
You may be listening to itlater on, but at this point in
class, your students willprobably be able to answer
things like either, or questionsas well, or be able to find
some common ground between themand their peers, like oh, moi
(05:51):
aussi, or yo tambien me too,things like that.
So when I'm saying doing anykind of interpersonal work,
that's really all you need forlevel one, and then your twos,
threes and fours.
Of course, more will beexpected from them.
But yeah, even in level one,how much of your day are they
getting any kind ofinterpersonal communicative
(06:12):
context?
So I would say that's the firstissue that we have on our
plates here is that we simplydon't spend enough time doing
this in class, and I get itbecause I didn't use to spend
enough time doing it either,even though speaking was the
focus of my class.
I find that every world languageteacher has their focus, and
(06:33):
speaking was mine.
Some people are more intoliteracy and reading and some
people are more into writingskills, but for me, speaking is
the whole reason that studentsare in class and that's what
we're going to focus on, even inlevel one.
So let's talk about those otherfocuses for a second and why.
I am going to perhaps rufflesome feathers and tell you that
(06:54):
your focus really should bespeaking, because in a school
environment things can often geta bit kerfuffled, we'll say,
since you are in a quote-unquoteacademic subject, people will
mistake something that is astactile, as real-world and as
skill-based as interacting in alanguage or signing in a
(07:17):
language.
They still think that thatmeans lots of worksheets, lots
of paper and lots of writing andreading, and although we know
that reading drives acquisition,we know that from a lot of
research, there's also thisimportant piece of interaction.
It's input plus interactionthat makes the difference.
(07:37):
So what's the differencebetween a book and a book?
Our classes, even though theyare technically, academically
built, they are skills.
They are not an academicsubject.
You cannot teach French thesame way that the teacher across
from you who's teaching Englishteaches English.
You cannot teach it the sameway the history teacher does, or
the science or the math teacher.
(07:58):
If you've heard any of mypodcast episodes, you probably
heard me talk about this before,because it's really important
is this mindset shift that weall need to do, and this is one
of the reasons why interpersonalskills are so lacking in North
American world language students.
So, with this idea in mind,think about it this way, since
literacy is a hugely importantinitiative justifiably so in at
(08:22):
least the United States, whichis is my teaching experience.
It has taken over many otherclassroom initiatives and we can
certainly do our part in worldlanguage and in a lot of states
it's even mandated.
I know in my state in southcarolina we have to do a certain
amount of literacy work inclass.
However, think about it we'relanguage, we are a world.
(08:45):
However, think about it, we'rea language, we are a world
language.
Acquiring a language naturallyboosts literacy.
Bilingual students do better inevery version of tests that
they've done when they comparehow well they can make
connections between words, howfluently they can cross between
ideas.
There is so much power to behad when your students have
(09:08):
competency in another language.
So I would say that our focusaside from the legal things that
you have to do in yourclassroom because I know that's
a reality but aside from thatfocus, I am not really okay with
hearing in meetings anymorejustifying a huge excess of
writing assignments, especiallyin level one and level two.
(09:30):
Whenever I work withdepartments and things and I see
what they have lined up for theweek or for the month and the
types of finals that they'regiving.
It is hugely overburdened withwriting assignments instead of
the whole point that studentsare there, which is speaking.
So let's dial back on this ideathat more writing and more
reading will contribute tostudents' literacy skills.
(09:51):
Acquiring a language in generalwill, of course, expand the
language centers, all thedifferent language centers of
the brain, and will add on to astudent's ability, once they're
in high school, to do better onthe SATs, do better in all other
realms of literacy focused work.
And asking students to do moreliteracy focused reading not
(10:15):
like reading for acquisition,but like long paragraphs of more
difficult language things likethat, as well as long sections
of writing that are notappropriate for their
proficiency level that this pushtowards literacy is actually
detrimental, because theliteracy focus really happens.
That magic happens in a worldlanguage classroom when students
(10:39):
are reading, compelling inputat their proficiency level and
then responding to it.
That's where we can work on theliteracy.
And, of course, we can do thatall day long, because reading in
the target language doesnothing but benefit our students
when it's at the appropriatelevel.
The other side that I wouldthink about this is that there's
(10:59):
also this element of rigor thatI would like to address.
Reading in the target languageis hard enough, you don't need
to add anything to it.
Writing in the target languageis hard enough.
You don't have to add any otherextra layers to it.
Your students are still inlevels one and two.
They're working towards thegoal of novice high.
(11:21):
That is an appropriate goal forif you're in middle school or
high school, a novice programNow is an appropriate goal for,
if you're in middle school orhigh school, a novice program
Now.
I was just working with anotherschool internationally who has a
multilingual population, sotheir students will be moving
through this faster.
So make sure that you'relooking at your school context
to see what that might be foryou.
But for the majority of schoolsin a North American context, if
(11:43):
your students are having are inyour program for approximately
a year for level one and thenapproximately a year for the
second stage of that course,whatever it may be, then yeah,
you're moving towards novicehigh.
So with that in mind, yourlanguage activities should be
appropriate for that proficiencyskill and for output for novice
(12:07):
high.
You're really looking at likenine sentences, maybe 12, if
your students are reachingtowards intermediate low and
they're not going to be likecute connected ideas.
They're going to be repetitivephrases that are just going to
recycle the things that theyalready know how to say, and
there's going to be a few littleconjunctions in there that will
(12:27):
make you excited, but there'sgoing to be some errors and
they're going to have to workreally hard to get sequential
ideas in there.
So that's what we're lookingfor in this stage of the game.
That is an appropriate measureof your student's proficiency.
If you're trying to go for more,you're taking away precious
time from the interaction andthe communicative settings that
(12:49):
they can only get in class.
They can only get that in class.
I'm not a huge fan of this, butif you really need to, your
students can do writingassignments at home, but they
can only interact with you inclass.
It is such a precious skillthat will give them the most
bang for their buck.
So, with that in mind, lookingat my notes here, oh, I want to
(13:11):
bring this all home, with thisidea of literacy in the world
language classroom being really,really important, but putting
that towards the books thatyou're assigning, the novels
that you're assigning, thereading time that you're
assigning and not focusing on.
Well, let's make our writingassignments stronger, or let's
(13:32):
make them more complex, or let'sgive them full-length articles
written for native speakers andcall that our reading assignment
for the day and that we'repromoting literacy.
Because, surprise, you're not.
They can't read that, unlessyou're adjusting the task for
the text, of course.
So think of it this way if youwere the music teacher and you
(13:55):
were teaching such an importantskill like expressing yourself
through music, a way tounderstand the world and other
people around you through music,and you were taking away the
only time they have in classwith you to learn more about
being more proficient in theirinstrument and handing them
articles to read in order toboost their literacy, don't you
(14:17):
think your district would beupset, and rightly so?
That's not why they're here.
You are improving theirliteracy by helping them learn
to read music, which isincredibly difficult, trust me.
I've been there.
I played an instrument for 12years and I loved it, but it's a
difficult skill to read music.
So that's the same thing forlanguage teachers is.
You're far more like the musicteacher.
(14:38):
You're far more like thewelding teacher or the gym
teacher or the art teacher.
If you're taking away time frompainting in class in order to
read, then you're not doing yourstudents a good service, unless
the reading is with athoroughly comprehensible novel
where you are reading all of thetime with compelling and
(15:01):
interesting and short,appropriate level of materials
and there's a whole podcastepisode about that with
DigiLangua, the DigiGals, whowill talk more about the
importance of literacy and howto do it right.
So let's not carve into ourprecious class time,
interpersonal time, by doing toomuch writing.
So, with that in mind, you'veheard my giant soapbox about why
(15:22):
I think we're not spendingenough time doing, speaking or
interacting in conversations inclass.
There's another important pieceto this is that, in addition to
the ideas we've already talkedabout, there's this whole thing
called classroom management,which makes it very difficult to
lead any type of interactiveactivity in class where you have
(15:46):
you having a conversation withstudents or students having
conversations with each other.
That's so hard to do.
So we're going to talk abouthow we can make that easier.
Now it's really chaotic in aclassroom environment, even if
you have a, you have a reallygood handle on classroom
management and you only have 13students.
Or if you're like me and you'regood at classroom management,
(16:09):
but you have 35 students andthey have a lot going on and
half of them don't even want tobe there, so it's a whole thing.
This is what I used to do inthose types of environments.
First of all, I would say, too,that a lot of people don't make
enough time for this, not onlybecause it's hard to do, but
because it's really difficult togive a grade to these right,
like when you are working in aclassroom setting.
(16:32):
It's so much easier to justpick up a tangible piece of
paper or an assignment and put agrade in the gradebook for that
right.
That's so much easier.
It's so much less stressful.
Students get it.
You get it, I get it, you getit, I get it.
Frankly, however, the intangibleskills are the most important.
If we don't give our studentsenough opportunities to use the
(16:52):
language in a meaningful way andgive them sentence starters and
scaffolding and things likethat, so that when you give them
a question they know how toanswer it, then what are they
going to do when it comes timefor well, practically speaking,
the speaking final that you'reabout to give them at the end of
the year or, even worse, thewhole point of the class, which
is to learn how to speak andinteract?
If you don't give them anychances to do it.
(17:15):
They're going to have a hardtime with it.
Simple as that.
So here's the how, and I'mgoing to give you examples from
a level one point of view,because honestly, I think that's
the hardest class to do this in.
And then if you teach higherlevels, you can, of course,
adapt these.
So because your students have alittle bit more in I was
actually it's a perfect analogymore in their language iceberg.
(17:39):
I was just doing an interviewtoday with Bryce Hedstrom that
y'all will see at Practical andComprehensible, my free
conference for comprehensibleinput.
Enthusiast teachers Come andhang out with me this summer,
july 8th through 11th.
My first presentation we didtoday with Bryce and he was
talking about the languageiceberg, which is the idea that
(17:59):
in a student's language ability,in their heads, they have the
iceberg, where, if you look atit, the tip of the iceberg is
what they're able to say and thebottom of the iceberg all that
stuff underneath, like 80% ofwhat you can't see is how much
they can understand from you.
So with that language iceberg,we do really need to build that
(18:22):
up first.
It is important that yourstudents have enough input
before they can start to use anyof that output that they have
on the tip of their iceberg.
Here are some of the hows thatI would make this happen in
level ones, and then, of course,in levels two, three and four.
If their language icebergs arebigger, then you'll be able to
(18:42):
expand on these ideas too.
But in level one, these were mygo-tos to make speaking a focus
in my class.
Again, once it was appropriate,after like two to three months
of solid input, I would schedulespeaking quizzes and, honestly,
I would do this from the verybeginning of class for my own
reasons.
There's a whole blog post onthis.
If you want more information,I'll link it in the show notes
(19:04):
below.
But in level one, yeah, I usedto do simple speaking quizzes
every two weeks and this was ahigh school class block schedule
, 90 minutes.
So they would have, you know, agood four weeks quote unquote
before they would work on aspeaking quiz.
But I would schedule speakingquizzes regularly and they would
(19:25):
be very simple Two to threesimple questions that we would
review quite a bit and I wouldgive them a lot of practice on
how to answer it.
And it would technically bemore of a performance assessment
than a proficiency assessment,performance being that they had
rehearsed the language a lot,that they they knew and they
were ready for that task.
Performance is not a bad thing.
(19:46):
It's actually very appropriatein level one.
You're not going to find a lotof proficiency again if their
language icebergs are prettysmall, so I'm not going to ask
them a spontaneous question inlevel one.
They're not ready for that, notmaybe until the end when
they're more displaying novicemid or novice high.
To prepare for speaking quizzesand make sure that students were
ready for these, we would do alot of activities in class to
(20:08):
get them ready, especially theday of the speaking quiz, so
everything would be really freshin their mind.
We would do things beforehand,called info gaps.
Info gap activities are thesewonderful ways where you can
give students in pairs differentpieces of information and they
need to ask each other questionsabout it in order to get the
(20:30):
full picture.
Simple, simple, simplequestions On one of my
activities that I have for saleon TPT.
It looks like this it's aphysical personality description
deal and there's pictures ofdifferent people and student A
has four pictures and student Bhas four different pictures and
(20:51):
student B has the clues aboutstudent A's pictures and student
A has the clues about studentB's pictures, and they have to
ask each other questions tofigure out oh, who was that
person?
And match them up, kind of deal.
So that's what an info gapactivity can look like.
It can be as simple as doesyour person have curly hair?
And they would say yes or no?
(21:11):
How about brown eyes?
Or blue eyes or green eyes?
And the person would have torespond my person has green eyes
, and that would be your answer.
So that's how you can do infogap activities, and you can do
that in so many different ways.
I mean, I used to do them inclass when I was a seventh grade
french student where my teacherwould give us a slip of paper
(21:34):
like info gap activities are oldas the game itself that my
teacher would give us one slipof paper to one partner.
That would be like you're goingto this, this place in France,
and your other friend is goingto this place in France.
These are some key, cool placesin that area.
You have to guess where yourpartner is going, stuff like
that.
So on that sheet of paper,though, I would say where we've
(21:57):
come from since my seventh gradeclass is.
You should put some hints orsome questions on there to help
them with that info gap activityso that they know how to ask
the questions, because askingquestions is really hard for
level one students.
It's a novice high skill,really, I would say too.
Another thing that you can do isdo classroom passwords.
This way, students are used toproducing language or answering
(22:21):
questions from you.
If it's a call and response,question answer type deal, what
are classroom passwords?
They are, oh my god, so muchfun.
This is another Bryce Hestromtactic, actually, that he taught
me, but he invented these as away to create classroom
community as well as teach hisstudents cool Spanish idioms.
The way it works is you set apassword for the week and
(22:43):
students cannot get in your doorunless they answer your
question correctly or say theclassroom password, and you get
to set a new one every week, andI would do things like write
the password on the board sothey'd be able to see it, you
know, but it's a really nicetradition that helps your
students get used to producingevery single day.
Another thing that you should bedoing, if you're not already,
(23:05):
is have a routine for classroomconversations.
I ask the people who study withme the ways to make
comprehensible input morepractical in your classroom.
Through my membership, thePractical Proficiency Network,
we do this tradition and thisroutine.
I teach every student in hereto do it, which is doing
(23:28):
structured classroomconversations.
I give every student in thatprogram a goal of get to the
point where you can talk everyday, or at least you know, start
with two to three times a week,if you need to, for three
minutes with your students andwe talk about how to do it.
You know ways to instillroutines, things like that, and
then we move up to five minutesand then 10 minutes and then 15
(23:48):
minutes and then doing theroutine every single day.
There is nothing that will giveyour students a better
communicative ability thanactually conversing with you in
the target language.
Now it doesn't look likethey're doing much speaking at
first, honestly, because reallythey're just going to be
responding to you with yes or noquestions, or either or
(24:10):
questions.
That's really all it looks like.
And some other activities I usedto do with students is I would
do things like a human scavengerhunt, where you would give them
like, let's say, it's a familyunit.
You would give them somepre-written questions on a
simple worksheet that says likedo you have an aunt who lives
(24:30):
nearby, or do you have a halfbrother or a half sister or
something like that?
You ask them.
You know nine or ten questionsand then you give them the
assignment.
You have to go around the roomand ask students in your class
to sign if this is true for them.
So it involves a lot ofinteraction.
It will involve you making surethat everybody uses the target
(24:53):
language, because they'lltotally want to teach and do it
in english, or just not sayanything and sign each other's
papers.
So make sure that you'rewalking around and ensuring that
they're using the targetlanguage.
This is a really easy way toget around that problem of how
do I grade speaking assignmentsor how do I grade these easily
is go around the room, make surethat everybody's using the
target language and then at theend of class, collect all of the
(25:16):
signature papers and you cansee who did it and who didn't.
That kind of deal.
But my two favorite ones forthis are my own personal
creations, and that is SoulTrain and Speed Dating.
They're not really my creations, but they're just like twists
on classic themes.
But whenever I would have aspeaking quiz day, I would ask
students to get in a tunnelright across from each other
(25:40):
somewhere in the room so thatthey're moving and working with
different people all the time.
I would give them a questionand say here's the question, and
it would be something like howold are you, in the target
language, like cuántos añostienes, and they would have to
answer it to each other and then, as soon as they answered to
each other, the two people atthe very front of the soul train
would have to go through thesoul train and then they would
(26:03):
move to the back.
Oh, actually it was only oneperson, so that you'd have only
one side moving each time.
That way, this side wouldalways have somebody new to talk
to and it allows students toget that repetition that they
need of working with thatquestion you know multiple times
without getting super bored.
The other thing that I would dois if your students would
prefer to be seated, as manyhigh school students would like
(26:24):
to be, is they can still movearound, but be seated by doing
something called speed dating,where you move the desk so that
they're facing each other.
Same concept, except eachquestion they are going to move
seats and talk to somebody new.
So those are some simple ideasthat you can do, but I would say
all of the time forinterpersonal activities.
(26:45):
When you're looking forsomething to make this easier to
do in your class and get moreresponse from students, keep in
mind you're a party host in yourclass.
The whole point of being aworld language teacher, or
really a world languagefacilitator, is that you are
looking for opportunities tohelp students connect with each
(27:06):
other through the targetlanguage, which means borrow
from all the fun party gamesthat are out there and find fun
questions that would get theminterested in talking to you and
answering questions from you.
So anytime that you can findthings that are like really fun
this or that, or icebreakerswould you rather all of that you
(27:27):
can do that in the targetlanguage.
That makes a huge difference.
So keep in mind that whole idea, this mindset shift that is so
crucial to being a good languagefacilitator, is that you are a
party host.
Your job is to be reallyinterested in your students, ask
them questions so that theywant to answer and be interested
in their answers and keep theconversation going.
(27:48):
That's it.
It's very simple to say andit's very difficult to execute,
which is why that simple ideawill require some practice, for
sure.
I would say, too, something thatyou can do to make this a lot
more practical on your side isthere are tons and tons of
activities available onlinewhere you can avoid the question
.
I'm thinking of things likewhere your students don't
(28:13):
necessarily have to have theireyes on you all the time or they
don't have to be constantlyasking questions of each other,
but you can get those littlequestion cards, sets of question
cards and conversation startersand things that they can ask
each other, and you can handthose out and have those be
activities that they work onwith each other.
They can ask each otherquestions, or they can come up
(28:34):
to you and get points for askingquestions, things like that.
Anything that you can do toavoid the question, like posting
the question on the board orhave students answer the
questions with each other.
That makes a big difference,because the question is usually
the barrier.
It's the hardest part.
Now, with that in mind, I wouldsay that another reason why
(28:57):
interpersonal activities getneglected is because, let's face
it, you might be feeling alittle neglected too.
How many times have you donethis awesome speaking activity
or conversation activity orpartner activity and your
students didn't do crap with it.
They were not responding.
You were getting a lot ofcrickets, whatever it might be.
(29:19):
We're going to troubleshootthat a little bit.
Right now, I have a lot, a lot,a lot of information about this
on my blog for you too as well,and on my YouTube channel.
There's tons of things that youcan find for what to do if
you're hearing crickets, how toget more response, engagement
all of that.
(29:41):
But in a nutshell, when it comesspecifically to interpersonal,
I would like to say that,besides the usual suspects for
engagement, that there's someother things going on here as to
why your students aren'tresponding to these types of
activities.
First thing is to think of thisIf you are asking your students
to answer a question on thespot from you in front of all of
their peers and that's thefirst way that you're
(30:02):
introducing any type ofcommunicative activity to them
you're going to encounter a lotof crickets.
Some students may becomfortable with that, but most
of them will not be.
Try this instead.
There's safety in numbers, andyour students don't have that
confidence in theircommunication yet, so can you
build on it?
(30:23):
I would say.
A huge reason that yourstudents are not responding to
you is because they don't havethe confidence yet in the
language and it's our job tobuild that up.
So what does that look like?
It means you're going to askthem extremely simple questions
like simpler than you think theyneed to be with extremely
(30:43):
sheltered vocabulary not grammar, but sheltered vocabulary where
you know they'll be able tounderstand your question and you
can provide them anything theyneed to help with one word or
two.
But if you need to break downthe whole question, then the
first problem is the question.
Let's assume that your questionis a good one.
It's appropriate for theirlevel, it's completely
(31:05):
comprehensible, all that jazz,and they're just having trouble
responding to you.
Start with this to build theirconfidence, safety in numbers,
work first in groups of four tofive and allow students to hear
the question from you first andthen answer with each other in
their little groups.
So they're going to answer toeach other and they're not going
(31:26):
to say it out loud to the classat first.
They're just they're going tosay to each other.
You will give them plenty oftime to do so.
Even if they start breaking offinto little chattery groups,
it's okay.
Walk around the room to eachgroup and hear each person's
response and talk to them.
Talk it through with them Ifyou're noticing that they're
having trouble with how torespond to you, because you
might discover, like, ooh, Ithought they would know how to
(31:49):
answer this because we've goneover it, but I'm noticing that
they're forgetting thisimportant verb structure.
And then you can write asentence starter for them on the
board and have them try itagain.
So go around the room and dothat feedback round.
Then, the next time you trysomething like this, do it in
groups of three, make the groupa little bit smaller, let them
answer with each other, and thendo that small one-on-one
(32:11):
interaction with them to checkin and see how are these answers
going.
And then, of course, anystudent that you know is needing
a little bit more support.
You can give that support.
Then you can put them inpartner groups, and I would say
too that, if classroommanagement allows it, let them
work with people they'refamiliar working with.
This is the hardest skillyou're asking them to do in your
class ever.
This is really difficult.
(32:32):
So allow them to work withpeople that they're comfortable
with and then, once you'restarting to whittle down, to
like, okay, it's been two weeks,they've been working in
partners for a while.
I bet you they're ready forone-on-one now.
So now you can do some of thoseactivities where you can ask,
like in the middle of class, belike hey, jeremy, what do you
(32:52):
think about this, do you preferbananas or oranges?
And they'll be like naranjas,like so proudly.
That's where you'll start tosee that confidence happening,
because they've been given lotsand lots of trial runs to make
it happen first, and you've alsobeen giving them lots of
language and input so thatthey're ready for it right.
Wink, wink, hint, hint.
(33:19):
I would say too that a hugething that you can do to build
your students' confidence isprovide them with the language
they need to be successful.
Give them rejoinders, give themways to respond to you that
aren't just like okay or yes orno, like they want to respond to
you.
You need to show them how andif they need help, they also
need that.
To show them things like noentiendo, like.
(33:41):
Show them how to say thingslike I don't understand, so that
you can keep the conversationgoing in your target language.
Also, don't forget this is mylast tip for you Do not forget
the sentence starters, eventhough you may have gone over
that structure a million timesin class.
You're talking aboutcommunicative context.
Communicative context is adifferent part of your brain
(34:03):
than the memorization section ofyour brain.
We're talking about thedifference between declarative
and procedural those are reallyfancy terms for saying stuff
that your brain can consciouslypull out and stuff that your
brain can unconsciously rely on.
This is the acquisition part ofthis game.
So if you are teaching a lot ofvocabulary words and focusing a
(34:24):
lot on grammar, then you arefocusing on declarative stuff.
This is stuff that yourstudents can pull from memory,
that maybe they can constructsome things with.
But like kind of clumsily, andif you give them not very many
opportunities to communicatethat whole section of their
brain, the communicative area isgonna be pretty empty and
(34:48):
they're not gonna know how to doit.
You need to give them lots andlots of opportunities to do this
in order for that skillset tobuild up.
That muscle will be weak untilyou work it.
So I will leave you with thisthought.
This is a quote from BBP BillVan Patten, from the language
educator 15 years ago.
This is not a new idea.
(35:09):
It's from a long time ago thatyou cannot drill communicative
ability.
It develops when we findourselves in communicative
contexts.
So I will leave you with thisthought to mull on the idea of
how you can make interpersonalthe secret ingredient that it
(35:32):
deserves to be in your classroom.
How many times this week canyou schedule some sort of
interpersonal opportunity?
But before that, how can youset your students up for success
in interpersonal communicativecontexts?
By giving them the right amountof input, lots and lots of
comprehensible things to read,as well as structured, scheduled
(35:58):
and scaffolded opportunities tointeract in a way that is
appropriate for their level, sothat when it comes time for when
you do the big thing thateverybody always judges their
success of their class on, whichis, oh, we're going to do
speaking now, if you don't spendenough of your time in class
giving them opportunities tospeak and sign, you will get
(36:19):
what you work for.
So my challenge to you is tocarve out at least 10% even more
, but 10% is the minimum I'mlooking for.
Carve out 10% more time in yourlesson plans this week for your
students to interact with youand interact with each other,
and you will be amazed to seehow much just that small change
(36:40):
will help your students'communicative ability and the
communicative centers of theirbrains to grow and thrive and,
of course, lead to the wholegoal acquisition and interacting
with native speakers.
Thank you so much for sharingsome of your time with me your
commute with me, maybe and I'mexcited to hear what you think
about this episode and to getyour students conversing with
(37:01):
each other or signing with eachother more.
This is Devin signing out and Ihope to hang out with you for
our next episode.
Bye for now.
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