April 21, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode of the Practical Spirituality Podcast, Gareth and Kim explore the emotional struggle many people face—the pendulum swing between caring too much and shutting down completely. They reflect on how this imbalance can lead to emotional exhaustion, isolation, and burnout.
Kim shares her personal experience with over-caring and the frustration of trying to stop herself from feeling so deeply. Gareth offers insight into how even well-meaning care can sometimes act as a distraction from facing one’s own healing. Together, they explore how cultural expectations often place unrealistic pressure on people to care endlessly, leading to guilt and resentment when boundaries are finally set.
Our hosts offer practical tools for finding a healthy balance—emphasizing that this is not about becoming less caring, but about learning to care in a way that doesn’t deplete our own wellbeing.
For anyone who has ever felt drained by their own empathy, this episode provides honest reflection, gentle guidance, and a reminder that caring for others starts with caring for ourselves.
Become a Community Member at https://community.garethmichael.com/ to join our community and get early access to new episodes, answers to your personal questions and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello Gareth.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you doing this evening?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm good this evening , thank you.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, the laugh before the recording helped
lighten the mood a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, it did, yes, it did.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think for this week's episode.
I want to talk about aninteresting topic of when we
find ourselves, or foundourselves in the past, caring
too much about people, the worldaround us, life in general.
And I think it's anotherinteresting angle to take out of
it because, especially withwhat's going on in the world,
(01:06):
especially if you would deemyourself or deem someone else as
a caring person, and thatcontinuously becomes challenged
on an ongoing basis, it can bevery hard to keep that hope, to
want to be an ongoing caringperson towards others or towards
the world around us, or any ofus around us or any of us, if it
(01:26):
constantly feels like it'sbeing taken advantage of or it's
not being seen or heard or andit's not even about it being
reciprocated back always.
Because I think if you're acaring person, you just want the
best outcome, the bestsituation for people in general.
But if you look at the worldaround us now, it doesn't seem
as if a lot of the people in theworld care about one another or
care about really anything.
(01:47):
So I just think it's a veryinteresting if you're a person
who does care, but now it feelslike you have to be forced not
to care in order to, so to speak, survive.
That's an interesting dynamicthat I feel like a lot of people
, or a lot of people, are beingput in those positions at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, you know, this is one that hits very close to
home, and especially the angleyou've chosen with it, and so I
think it is going to be a veryinteresting topic, and it's
interesting in the fact that,even as a very caring person, it
is one of the struggles I'vehad my entire life, and no
(02:22):
matter how many times I go.
That's it.
I've had my entire life, and nomatter how many times I go.
That's it, I'm done.
I'm not caring about anybodyanymore.
Two seconds, goodbye, that's itBack in.
It's very frustrating.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it is, and I think we're in a world now.
It's like I'm allowed to careonly if I also have leverage
that I can use if needed.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, that's what it seems like.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes, caring is becoming a lot more conditioned
that you actually, because Ifeel like people feel like it's
not safe anymore to actuallycare fully or authentically
because we've just been allmaybe burned in a lot of
different ways and this is justone angle, of course, because I
do think so.
We're going beyond talkingabout caring then.
It's more than just being niceor being polite and saying
(03:12):
please and thank you.
We're having my deep caring ofactually wanting the best for
individuals, even if it meansyou going the extra mile in
order to help that person.
And so that's where it's aninteresting conversation,
because I think it's it's harderand harder to justify that
those behaviors or actionsanymore, especially if it's been
long, over an extended periodof time, where we don't feel it
(03:33):
has been reciprocated or it'sjust been taken for granted or
people have actually abused thatpart of us.
And I think there is a naturalinstinct in human beings overall
to want to care about oneanother.
But just the way the world isand the patterns and behaviors
that we all have been runningnow for such a long time, it
does seem to become less andless present, and what I mean by
(03:55):
presence that I do believe itstill lives on within people,
but especially our quality.
That's being suppressed morethan ever because people just
don't see the value in it beingthe primary protocol when it
comes to human interaction well,I think I agree with that, but
I think it more like the cost ofit.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's becoming too high because it does come at a
high price if you don't know howto protect yourself from that,
because most people that arereally caring people like you
said, and especially caring inthe sense that you just
genuinely care about somebodyelse's well-being and that you
would just naturally step in anddo things that other people
(04:33):
might not You're going to getburned a few times and as sad as
that is to say in today's world, that is the truth, is the
truth, and I think we're findingfewer and fewer people that are
like that only because theyhave to protect themselves, so
they put that shell up aroundthemselves and pretend that they
don't care.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Which makes sense.
You know, you can't blamepeople for wanting to protect
themselves or putting thosewalls up, and I think it's that.
How can we get that balance,though?
Because I think caring is sucha natural instinct, whereas
actually learning, as you'resaying, how to protect ourselves
under circumstances and how toheal those wounds doesn't come
necessarily natural in ourday-to-day culture.
(05:16):
So, therefore, you want to finda space where you don't have to
be so full caring mode all thetime that you're going to expose
yourself to so much more hurt,but that you don't also go to
the other extreme of shuttingourselves down completely, where
we're like I'm just not goingto care anymore, as you've tried
many times, but feel stilltrying but you know, because I
(05:38):
think that's such a pendulumswing that actually really
affects our belief, ourunderstanding about ourselves
and it does affect ourrelationships then, because it
feels like we're swinging fromcaring to then shutting
ourselves off and it does haveconsequences to how we interact
with the people we love the most.
So I think trying to understandhow do we get that balance right
in this life and I think a lotof the time, like most of the
(06:00):
things we talk about, is abouthaving an awareness and building
a certain level of skill setsthat we didn't know we needed,
but we do have the wounds toshow from our past of why these
skill sets and healing is needed.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, you know what I can say from my own personal
experience, and the minute youbrought this topic up, all I
could see is a UNICEF commercialfrom when I was five years of
age and the little boy standingthere in Africa with his swollen
belly and me just wanting todie and physically feeling sick
because how could the world letsomebody starve like that.
(06:34):
And that was the beginning of mebecoming aware of the depths
that I did care.
And it didn't stop with acommercial.
It went on in many areas.
So, like you said, there was somany wounds by the time I got
to the point of really beingable to understand that this is
a.
It's a very positive thing inme that I care, but also, at the
(06:59):
same time, I spent so much timecaring for everything outside
of me instead of caring for me.
And I think that is where thebalance has to start, because
often you'll find, with peoplewho care, as it's often said to
me you know all you got to do ispick up the phone and Kim will
be right there Not necessarily agood thing.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, I mean, it's nice that people think that
about me, but I need to havethose boundaries as well and I
need to be able to take care ofmyself as well.
And if I can't find thatbalance, if I'm swinging from
that pendulum, you know it doescreate all kinds of problems,
not just emotional but physical.
It affects your health, itaffects your, you know.
(07:44):
You do get to the point whereyou're like, no, I don't want to
go around people, I'll bepresented with something and I
don't want to be around that.
Thank you very much.
So the balance for me came, youknow, and I know people
listening to our podcast mightthink you know, do they ever
stop going on about this?
But the only thing that madesense to me is when I discovered
(08:07):
Sacred Contracts, because thatwas the only way I could find
the balance, because I thoughtall the pain in the world was
just because not enough peoplewere caring and that if I cared
enough, that I would make adifference and then, therefore,
people would just naturally benicer to each other.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You know, a few hard knocks against the wall and I
found out that's not necessarilythe way it works.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But it is.
It's the balance, and when Istarted to understand that, that
was the first time that I wasable to go wait.
I have no clue how to care forme, and I knew that because that
was right around the time I gotpregnant with my oldest child
and that was my greatest fear.
How do I take care of a babywhen I can't even manage me at
(08:55):
that point in my life, and soyou know I had to grow up fast.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
But I think that's why it's such an interesting
conversation, because it's solayered, because you said it is
caring for ourselves, justcaring for our family members,
and then there's actually caringfor the greater good of people
and nature.
And so, depending on whichangle you're talking about, I
think we can all.
It brings up a lot emotionallyand even in memories, different
(09:20):
times in our lives.
And just before we start I waseven saying to you about where I
struggle with how much I docare with people at times,
because with anyone listening tothe podcast or any of the
clients I work with, of course Inaturally care and somewhat
even feel protective of themwhen I'm working with them at
times.
But I know how hard hitting aswe even talked about in some
(09:42):
recent episodes the spiritualcontracts of mind design
messaging can be, especiallywhen you look out at the world
and what people have to gothrough and to say that that's
all a part of a contract thatany of us, so to speak, signed
up for at some level within us.
The caring part of me reallydislikes saying that, because I
know how much pain and hurtpeople have actually gone
through.
(10:03):
So even though I 100 believe inthe messaging, the part of me
that doesn't want people to hurtmore and the fact that I know
this messaging actually bringsup more hurt in them, I feel the
caring part of me feelsresponsible.
I don't I want to be that guythat brings up that pain and
then etc, etc, etc.
Even though I know it's 100correct with michael's messaging
and the messaging that'sactually led to a lot of healing
(10:24):
in my journey, your journey,other people's journey.
But the point is that, evenwith all that logic there of
understanding, as we both knowthe emotional part of it though,
of the cost of the messagingand what that can bring up, so
to speak, because the caringpart of me doesn't want anyone
to hurt more than what they haveto, even though I know I'm not
(10:44):
responsible for their hurt tostart with.
So it'd be easier for me to say, oh, I'll just not care over
how people are going to respondto the messaging.
But it's not that simple, as weboth know.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You just can't turn off that part of you like a
switch you can't, you absolutelycan't, and if anybody could, it
would be me, because I've spenta lifetime trying, because I
thought that was the number oneproblem with me is that I cared
too much, and many people toldme that, but it is the essence
of who I am on so many differentlevels, so I can't just switch
(11:20):
it off.
I can't just switch it off but,as you so kindly tell me, when
I sit with me and love me, thenI can see the benefit somebody
else has going through thejourney that they're going
through.
And, of course, right at thismoment I have, as I always do,
(11:42):
quite a few people in my lifethat are going through quite a
few things that I would muchrather they'd not have to go,
and if I could take their painaway from them, I would.
Yep, absolutely it's just notgoing to happen.
It's just not going to happen.
So the most caring thing I cando is be present, sit in that
strength to remind them thatthey have what it takes to move
(12:02):
through this.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And I think sometimes it's only that when we're
exposed to how over-caring attimes ends up hurting or burning
us throughout life, that weactually begin to understand
where there hasn't beenboundaries, as you mentioned
earlier, as we go through life.
And I think the different waysin which that can appear is that
when there is just thatresentment that can often build
(12:25):
and let that be with ourpartners, with our family and
with our kids, with colleagues,friends, and even just a
generalized burnout that weactually don't know how to be
present with ourselves in mind,body emotions, and I think it's
that this definition ofself-care.
So if we don't have thatself-care, it's that how can
(12:45):
those parts of us actually beginto heal and revive themselves
as we go throughout life?
Because we're just giving toomuch and then we can get into
those patterns of that.
That's what then people expectof us, because that's all
they've ever known but you'vetalked about that often, even in
your experience over the yearsis that when you give so much
and then suddenly, when youstart to put in those boundaries
, it's like either I'm a caringperson or a horrible person.
(13:08):
It's like there's no in betweenyeah yeah, because it feels like
black and white.
Because we've never been shownor taught of how to find the
correct boundaries that suitseveryone's needs.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Because when you're trying to figure that out it
feels like an impossible taskI'm going to throw a spanner in
works here because I think thisis an important part to bring up
this subject and you're goingto remember this as soon as I
start to speak about it.
A few years ago, I spoke to youabout something I cared deeply
about, that was probably more ona global scale, and you just
(13:40):
kind of laughed at me and said,oh, you're just distracting
yourself.
And I was like you just kind oflaughed at me and said oh,
you're just distracting yourself, and I was like I really care
about this, I am reallygenuinely worried about what is
happening here and you know Ican sit here a couple years
later and go.
Okay, I see where you weretelling me.
I was distracting myself, but Igenuinely felt that I could see
(14:01):
how many people on the planetwere hurting because of the
general overall thing that washappening.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I felt so powerless and helpless in it, but again I
was able.
After you said it, as with mostthings that you say to me, I go
away kicking and screaming andgoing.
You're wrong, you're wrong,you're wrong, you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I hate it when he's right.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know, because what?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
a fun dynamic we have .
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's crazy, but it was very powerful for me because
I did.
That was the first time and Ican honestly say it's the first
time that I realized, oh, I cansee where.
I do this with a lot of thingsBecause it feels so important,
because so many people areinvolved, that we should care,
(14:55):
but I have no power over that.
So me caring and worrying doesnothing but harm me and anyone
that is around me and it'scounterproductive to what I'm
saying I care about.
And that was a very huge lessonin self-care that you taught me
around this subject, because Ijust didn't think I had any
(15:18):
control over that, because itjust felt so real to me at the
time and so important as they dowhen they're in your face and
it's a lesson for you to learn.
But then, once I got it and Iwas able to go, I see my job is
to take care of me and if I'mtaking care of me and I am still
(15:39):
being that loving, kind personto every single person around me
, that's where I affect thechange, not worrying about
what's happening on the globe.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, let's take a step back from this week's
episode and share with everyonewhat we've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(16:21):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And, as we talked about in the previous episode,
it's like worrying isworshipping the problem, and I
think it's that we never thinkthat being too caring can be a
problem.
I want to, especially in theexamples you're using there on a
global scale, that we neverthink we can care too much as a
way to escape ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, I was not happy with you when you told me I
don't know if you remember, butI wasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And when I got it I like oh okay because it's not
saying that these things aren'tactually happening in the world
or they don't.
Of course it matters, and ofcourse if other people are going
through matters, but I thinksometimes we it's a warped
perspective at times of how muchimpact we can actually have to
create the change that we expectto see in the world, and it's
that we like.
(17:27):
At most things, it alwaysstarts with self, as you
mentioned, as we often talkabout, and the impact that we
can create around the peoplearound us.
But when we're starting toproject it out to millions or
billions of people and thegovernments and things that we
actually do not have any sortsof control of, as you're saying,
then you actually have to startquestioning what is this really
(17:50):
about?
And no one ever likes that lineof questioning, because, of
course, the point is valid, butwhen it's pumped with a lot of
emotion, I think that's whatit's always very telling about.
Where is that coming from?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, it's like you said to me back then and can say
now, because we're talkingabout self-care, you know the
mind gets creative and how itbrings things up, and I'm a
runner from way back, and so itwas just another way of running,
from the fear that I wasfeeling at that time, of feeling
out of control about what washappening, and so how many
(18:28):
people think caring can become away of running and avoiding?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Which it does in a lot of people's lives.
Yeah, and I think that's anaspect that we don't talk about
very much, about how it comes atthat cost, if we're using it to
avoid ourselves and what.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
what's happening for us so I think that's where it's
an important conversation tounderstand what are the dynamics
with our relationship withcaring too little or too much
and what, what are the differentevents in our lives that has
actually dictated where wecurrently are on that scale,
because, like anything we didn't, there's a history that comes
(19:11):
along with this and a lot of itdealt and a lot of it very much
undealt with, because we're justso unaware of all of these
patterns, behaviors that comewith it.
So I think, in diving into that, what are some of the tips or
ways in which we can startexploring our relationship with
those parts of us that we findourselves either caring too
(19:31):
little or caring too much?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So I think just even those words and we talked about
the pendulum before caring toolittle or caring too much are
the extremes of either end, andif we're at either end of those,
there's usually something thatwe don't want to look at and so
it's like, okay, so how do Istart to explore why I care too
(19:54):
much?
Or how do I look at why do I notcare at all?
And so there's some questionsthat we can ask ourselves and,
of course, as you and I alwayssay, getting professional help
or someone that's objective tohelp you look at it and see,
because many times the word thatgets used with caring too much
is codependent, because you arecaring about something outside
(20:20):
of you more than you are caringabout yourself and your own
well-being, your immediatefamily's well-being, and
everything is about outside ofyou.
So the more you can turn it inand go okay.
So what is this reflectingabout me and becoming present to
why it is you're caring andwhat's behind it?
(20:41):
And caring too little is justlike the caring too much is.
Am I trying to avoid?
What am I trying to avoid inthat?
And I don't think these arequestions that we can answer on
our own.
I think, like we've often said,we can start to write about it
and get an idea, but usually itjust brings up a lot of the
(21:03):
unexplored and unresolvedemotions that might be driving
some of that caring behavior.
But we need that outside sourceto be able to really understand
it and decipher it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And I think this was interesting when we do start to
explore it or have theopportunity to, when you start
to to realize, as we weretalking a little briefly about
earlier was that the elements ofcaring that have been taught to
us and then the elements of itthat are due to experience.
What I mean by that is that,say, when it comes to family
dynamics or within friends,there's an expectation that you
(21:37):
should have a certain level ofcare, or if you don't go to
certain birthdays or certainevents, you don't care about us,
so therefore you have to turnup in order to show that you
care.
So this, so there isconditioned elements of caring
for ourselves or caring forothers.
That is kind of built into alot of the different cultures
globally.
And then there's certainexperiences that we were kind of
(21:59):
more talking about at the startof this episode is that when we
were caring too muchemotionally about a person, a
partner, a sibling, a friend orwhatever it might be, then it
being taken advantage of and weexperienced that head on, with
the emotional part of it versus,say, the former was the
logically we've been trained ortaught to have to care mentally
about because of who they are insociety, of what's expected
(22:23):
from us.
So it is actually quite layeredin the different ways in which
we approach this of what hasbeen taught to us to expect in
the black and white, or thatpendulum swing and caring when
it comes to cultural standardsand social norms, and then it
comes to our experiences.
That tend to be that lightswitch of I have to turn it on
or no, I have to turn it off,and it seems to sit back and
(22:44):
forward and so experiencedictates the emotional decisions
on that versus the culturalelements of what we've been
taught, of what we should orshouldn't care about.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Exactly, and you know we talk about.
The impact of that is thatresentment and the burnout,
because if you're out therecaring too much, you're usually
not taking care of yourself, youusually don't have the
boundaries, so of course you hitthe burnout and the resentment.
So if you have hit burnout andresentment, you're on one end of
those pendulums.
Or if you're like me I'm notgoing out of the house this week
(23:18):
you're probably at the otherend of the pendulum.
It's not necessarily a healthyplace to be.
So it's finding that middleground again, you know, and that
is what is so hard to navigateon our own, and I think this is
an important fact that none ofus like to face is that human
(23:40):
beings are a pack animal.
We are meant to be in community,and the reason we are meant to
be in community and the reasonwe are meant to be in community,
is because the community canhelp us understand ourself
better than we understandourself and can see where we are
running on a program or not,and so we have that or not, and
(24:09):
so we have that.
And then, once we start to turnthat reflection inward and we
start to take care of ourselves,of course there's going to be a
healthier level of caring.
It becomes natural, but it ishard, like a life for me, and
I'm going to say it like this itbecomes hard to do the
self-care when you've spent agood portion of your life caring
for somebody outside ofyourself.
(24:29):
And finding that fine line ofbalance can take a little bit of
practice and a lot of input cantake a little bit of practice
and a lot of input.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I couldn't agree more , and I think it's that,
regardless of where we are inthat pendulum swing, in either
extreme, both sides create veryunique wounds as we go through
life and those experiences.
So I think when we actuallystart becoming aware that we
need to explore caring more,caring less, and finding that
middle ground of what careshould mean for us present day,
(25:04):
it does mean healing the woundsfrom the past that were created
on either side of that pendulumswing, depending on who it was
with and especially if we'regoing throughout our entire
lives, there can be a lot ofdifferent memories or
experiences of individualsinvolved in that.
That has us continuing to swingfrom side to side.
So, and to get that middleground that's where setting the
boundaries becomes so important,as well as healing the wounds
(25:27):
that continue to, as I mentioned, have us go from one side to
the other, and we can't do thaton our own, but we have to begin
opening up, to begin exploringand learning from those
experiences.
As you said is that we are, bynature, caring individuals, so
if we ever think we're going tobe able to completely switch
that off, I don't believe that'sactually the end goal here.
(25:49):
It's not, but it's actuallylearning from the experience of
how do I get that balance inlife where I can still care for
myself, care for otherindividuals, share my
experiences, share my wisdom,want to understand what other
people are going through, but,if not, constantly taking a
mental, emotional or physicaltoll on myself present day to
(26:09):
the point of where I feel like Ihave to go hide, or else I have
to throw myself more intosomething else in order to prove
what to who.
Well, that's what everyone hasto go explore, to understand
what's driving any of this.
To start with, that's exactlyit.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And then, once we start to have the awareness that
our caring too much is actuallyhindering somebody.
So if you look at a parentthat's over caring for their
child, they think that they'rehelping their child, but they're
disabling their child becausethe child is not learning how to
work through certain things ontheir own and they're always
looking for someone else tosolve that problem.
(26:44):
And that's just a small example,but that's a huge example when
it comes to trying to find thatbalance.
Whether you're a parent, orwhether you're a friend, or
whether you're a lover, orwhether you're in a work
situation, if your caring isgetting in the way of somebody
else being able to explore theirown growth, then it's no longer
healthy caring, and that's agood guideline to be looking for
(27:08):
.
Am I caring too much about whatsomebody else's outcome is
going to be, because we thinkthat we're going to help them
but it's not actually helpingthem grow?
And I think that's an importantpoint to bring up when we talk
about these boundaries andstarting to do this
self-reflection, because youknow, I would have gathered the
(27:29):
8 billion people on the planetand just given them a great big
hug and said you know, we're allgoing to be okay, it's okay.
How is?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
that going?
That's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Not working so well for me at the moment.
Yeah, I was just gonna say itgoes back to recognizing the
limits.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's beautiful to care, but you can care too much
and you can actually hinder thepeople you love if you're doing
that codependency or that overcaring and disabling people and,
like most things, it's veryeasy to continue to focus just
on the external responses orpeople externally, of which is,
in ways in which we haveexamples of we've been caring
(28:13):
too little or caring too much,and so, like most things, I
think in doing this journey ofunderstanding our relationship
with any of these components isturning back to self, and I
think if we look back on our ownlives in the past and today and
present day, we can, if webegin exploring it, find
examples of ways in which whatways am I caring for myself too
(28:34):
little and what ways am Iactually caring for myself a
little too much, actually caringfor myself a little too much?
And I think it's that that'swhere you can see of how we
actually starve ourselves ofcertain things or certain things
that we actually need in mind,body, emotions or in connection
and in other ways you canactually see in caring too much
means it's actually maybefeeding certain addictions in
our life where we actually feelthat's part of what's maybe
(28:54):
going to help or heal thesituation that we often find
doesn't and keeps that imbalancegoing from one extreme to the
other.
So it's only when we actuallyunderstand of what does caring
for ourself actually look like.
Will that be in ways in whichis too little or too much?
It can actually be a greatindicator to understand why our
relationship is the way it iswith other people outside of us
(29:15):
externally, because we only everproject outwardly what's
already within us internally.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And we often don't want to see that reflection, and
so therefore, we hide from itor bury it or numb it or
whatever it is we're doing withwhatever addictions that might
be there at that time.
So I guess the other thing thatI would say is really important
is learning how to communicatewhat's happening inside of you
you and communicating withsomebody else, because I know in
(29:45):
my journey and learning how topull back that over caring too
much, I had to learn how to setthe boundaries, state the
boundaries say.
The no, which I know you canattest to, was not the easiest
journey for me to do, and in thevery beginning it felt like I
would die.
But the more I communicated it,the easier it became, and the
(30:09):
more I got practice of it, theeasier it is to stay to a
healthy boundary and not havethe guilt and the shame and all
the self-doubt come flooding inwith it.
But that also goes to healingthe wounds that you spoke about
earlier, and so when you put allof that together, you can see
why it gets set up the way itgets set up, because there's so
(30:30):
many layers that we're workingon at any given time as we're
doing this journey with thecaring or anything else that
we're working on at that moment,but I think it's important not
to kid ourselves and to learnhow to communicate, even within
ourself, about what's happening,because we're not always the
(30:52):
kindest people to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, and it's also that fact that other people are
also not the kindest people toourselves either, depending on
the circumstance.
And I think if we're being realabout this, especially if
you're trying to find thatbalance for yourself and for the
people around you, the realityis a lot of people may not be
that supportive in you findingthat balance, because they've
been benefiting from the fact ofthe imbalance for so long.
(31:16):
And that's where talking to aprofessional to understand what
that looks like and how to dothat with time becomes so
important, because that's whenpeople can begin to gaslight us
or say, get into our head inother ways because, as I
mentioned, they've beenbenefiting the fact that we
couldn't, that we have beencaring too much.
So even though in theory itsounds great that everyone
(31:38):
should want balance and everyoneshould want a self-care for
every person equally, that'sjust not always the reality or
the case.
Especially if you're trying tofind that balance with your boss
at work.
They're not going to want thatbalance because they were
getting more out of you fortheir money beforehand when you
were working overtime and notgetting paid for it.
So this is where it does bringup a lot of interesting
(32:02):
imbalances in our day-to-daylife, and we do have to learn
the skill sets to be equipped ofhow to deal with those
individuals who actually havebeen helping fund that imbalance
out of their own self-interest.
But would they ever admit that?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
of course not of course they're not going to
admit it in on level, whether itbe your boss, but also, of
course, the boss is going toenable it.
But even if you're starting towork on this and you look at it,
why are you working so hard andcaring about somebody else's
business more than you're caringabout yourself and your own
(32:35):
well-being?
And that's a very big questionto ask yourself, very
confronting question to ask, andwe don't always have the answer
straight away.
But that's a great place tostart and quite often we can't
do that on our own.
We just think that we want tobe good employees, but it's
never just about being a goodemployee.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I think this has been a very important conversation
for us to explore, becausereality is is that whether we
find ourselves caring too littleor caring too much about
ourselves, about the worldaround us, about family, about
friends the list goes on it'sour responsibility to actually
explore what is the emotionalresponse to something that is
actually driving either side ofit, because it's our we're
(33:17):
responding in a way that wethink is the solution went off
and it's not.
It actually finds ourselvesbeing exposed to more
experiences that just adds tothis imbalanced pendulum swing
that we continue to findourselves in.
So it's only when we actually gothrough enough of it throughout
life and we have and theawareness with that has come
from all of these differentexperiences, can we find
(33:38):
ourselves actually seeing it isthe right time now to begin
exploring this and questioningit, and you can't do that, as we
often talk about, until it isthe time is right to do that.
It can be a tough adjustment tofind that balance while also
continuing to engage with thereal world when people do have
busy jobs, busy lives maybe kidsin the house, grandkids, like
(33:59):
life can be so busy at times,especially when we are running
those people pleasing tendenciesat times and we're running.
It's just.
It's very hard sometimes, asyou said, to find that balance
on your own, and even when weare trying something new, we
don't actually know is it theright thing to do, or did we do
that right, or it's justsomething that constantly needs
communication and be talked out.
(34:20):
So I loved when you'd mentionedthat earlier, though it's that
we really can't do it on our own.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like most, like most things, it's something that we
need to take baby steps with, tounderstand how it, what it
means for us present day andwhat that means for us moving
forward well, I couldn't havesaid it better, and I think the
other thing that I would justleave everybody on, especially
having lived this life ofdealing with this same sort of
thing, is that it's notsomething that I'm going to go
(34:46):
in and work on and it's going tobe solved, and I never have to
have that problem ever again,because that is not the way it
works.
That is not the nature of whoyou are.
You've got ingrained programsthat have been there for most of
your life and there's differentlevels of awareness when it
(35:07):
comes to working on these things.
So, even though I might havebeen really bad at it at the
beginning or really deeply intothe caring too much, it doesn't
mean it got switched off and Idon't care.
I still care.
I just have more emotionalmaturity around how I care.
Do I still get caught out in itsometimes?
(35:27):
I absolutely do, and so I justI like to put that little
disclaimer in there foreverybody, because so many
people think they're going toget there.
It's going to be done, and weknow that this is an ongoing
process.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode,then you might want to check out
(35:48):
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community by your side, nomatter where life takes you.
Connect with like-mindedindividuals through our app.
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(36:12):
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wwwgarethmichaelcom.
(36:35):
Thanks again, and I hope youguys are having a lovely week.
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello Gareth.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you doing this evening?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm good this evening , thank you.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, the laugh before the recording helped
lighten the mood a little bit.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yes, it did, yes, it did.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think for this week's episode.
I want to talk about aninteresting topic of when we
find ourselves, or foundourselves in the past, caring
too much about people, the worldaround us, life in general.
And I think it's anotherinteresting angle to take out of
it because, especially withwhat's going on in the world,
(01:06):
especially if you would deemyourself or deem someone else as
a caring person, and thatcontinuously becomes challenged
on an ongoing basis, it can bevery hard to keep that hope, to
want to be an ongoing caringperson towards others or towards
the world around us, or any ofus around us or any of us, if it
(01:26):
constantly feels like it'sbeing taken advantage of or it's
not being seen or heard or andit's not even about it being
reciprocated back always.
Because I think if you're acaring person, you just want the
best outcome, the bestsituation for people in general.
But if you look at the worldaround us now, it doesn't seem
as if a lot of the people in theworld care about one another or
care about really anything.
(01:47):
So I just think it's a veryinteresting if you're a person
who does care, but now it feelslike you have to be forced not
to care in order to, so to speak, survive.
That's an interesting dynamicthat I feel like a lot of people
, or a lot of people, are beingput in those positions at the
moment.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, you know, this is one that hits very close to
home, and especially the angleyou've chosen with it, and so I
think it is going to be a veryinteresting topic, and it's
interesting in the fact that,even as a very caring person, it
is one of the struggles I'vehad my entire life, and no
(02:22):
matter how many times I go.
That's it.
I've had my entire life, and nomatter how many times I go.
That's it, I'm done.
I'm not caring about anybodyanymore.
Two seconds, goodbye, that's itBack in.
It's very frustrating.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it is, and I think we're in a world now.
It's like I'm allowed to careonly if I also have leverage
that I can use if needed.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well, that's what it seems like.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes, caring is becoming a lot more conditioned
that you actually, because Ifeel like people feel like it's
not safe anymore to actuallycare fully or authentically
because we've just been allmaybe burned in a lot of
different ways and this is justone angle, of course, because I
do think so.
We're going beyond talkingabout caring then.
It's more than just being niceor being polite and saying
(03:12):
please and thank you.
We're having my deep caring ofactually wanting the best for
individuals, even if it meansyou going the extra mile in
order to help that person.
And so that's where it's aninteresting conversation,
because I think it's it's harderand harder to justify that
those behaviors or actionsanymore, especially if it's been
long, over an extended periodof time, where we don't feel it
(03:33):
has been reciprocated or it'sjust been taken for granted or
people have actually abused thatpart of us.
And I think there is a naturalinstinct in human beings overall
to want to care about oneanother.
But just the way the world isand the patterns and behaviors
that we all have been runningnow for such a long time, it
does seem to become less andless present, and what I mean by
(03:55):
presence that I do believe itstill lives on within people,
but especially our quality.
That's being suppressed morethan ever because people just
don't see the value in it beingthe primary protocol when it
comes to human interaction well,I think I agree with that, but
I think it more like the cost ofit.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It's becoming too high because it does come at a
high price if you don't know howto protect yourself from that,
because most people that arereally caring people like you
said, and especially caring inthe sense that you just
genuinely care about somebodyelse's well-being and that you
would just naturally step in anddo things that other people
(04:33):
might not You're going to getburned a few times and as sad as
that is to say in today's world, that is the truth, is the
truth, and I think we're findingfewer and fewer people that are
like that only because theyhave to protect themselves, so
they put that shell up aroundthemselves and pretend that they
don't care.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Which makes sense.
You know, you can't blamepeople for wanting to protect
themselves or putting thosewalls up, and I think it's that.
How can we get that balance,though?
Because I think caring is sucha natural instinct, whereas
actually learning, as you'resaying, how to protect ourselves
under circumstances and how toheal those wounds doesn't come
necessarily natural in ourday-to-day culture.
(05:16):
So, therefore, you want to finda space where you don't have to
be so full caring mode all thetime that you're going to expose
yourself to so much more hurt,but that you don't also go to
the other extreme of shuttingourselves down completely, where
we're like I'm just not goingto care anymore, as you've tried
many times, but feel stilltrying but you know, because I
(05:38):
think that's such a pendulumswing that actually really
affects our belief, ourunderstanding about ourselves
and it does affect ourrelationships then, because it
feels like we're swinging fromcaring to then shutting
ourselves off and it does haveconsequences to how we interact
with the people we love the most.
So I think trying to understandhow do we get that balance right
in this life and I think a lotof the time, like most of the
(06:00):
things we talk about, is abouthaving an awareness and building
a certain level of skill setsthat we didn't know we needed,
but we do have the wounds toshow from our past of why these
skill sets and healing is needed.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, you know what I can say from my own personal
experience, and the minute youbrought this topic up, all I
could see is a UNICEF commercialfrom when I was five years of
age and the little boy standingthere in Africa with his swollen
belly and me just wanting todie and physically feeling sick
because how could the world letsomebody starve like that.
(06:34):
And that was the beginning of mebecoming aware of the depths
that I did care.
And it didn't stop with acommercial.
It went on in many areas.
So, like you said, there was somany wounds by the time I got
to the point of really beingable to understand that this is
a.
It's a very positive thing inme that I care, but also, at the
(06:59):
same time, I spent so much timecaring for everything outside
of me instead of caring for me.
And I think that is where thebalance has to start, because
often you'll find, with peoplewho care, as it's often said to
me you know all you got to do ispick up the phone and Kim will
be right there Not necessarily agood thing.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, I mean, it's nice that people think that
about me, but I need to havethose boundaries as well and I
need to be able to take care ofmyself as well.
And if I can't find thatbalance, if I'm swinging from
that pendulum, you know it doescreate all kinds of problems,
not just emotional but physical.
It affects your health, itaffects your, you know.
(07:44):
You do get to the point whereyou're like, no, I don't want to
go around people, I'll bepresented with something and I
don't want to be around that.
Thank you very much.
So the balance for me came, youknow, and I know people
listening to our podcast mightthink you know, do they ever
stop going on about this?
But the only thing that madesense to me is when I discovered
(08:07):
Sacred Contracts, because thatwas the only way I could find
the balance, because I thoughtall the pain in the world was
just because not enough peoplewere caring and that if I cared
enough, that I would make adifference and then, therefore,
people would just naturally benicer to each other.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
You know, a few hard knocks against the wall and I
found out that's not necessarilythe way it works.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But it is.
It's the balance, and when Istarted to understand that, that
was the first time that I wasable to go wait.
I have no clue how to care forme, and I knew that because that
was right around the time I gotpregnant with my oldest child
and that was my greatest fear.
How do I take care of a babywhen I can't even manage me at
(08:55):
that point in my life, and soyou know I had to grow up fast.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
But I think that's why it's such an interesting
conversation, because it's solayered, because you said it is
caring for ourselves, justcaring for our family members,
and then there's actually caringfor the greater good of people
and nature.
And so, depending on whichangle you're talking about, I
think we can all.
It brings up a lot emotionallyand even in memories, different
(09:20):
times in our lives.
And just before we start I waseven saying to you about where I
struggle with how much I docare with people at times,
because with anyone listening tothe podcast or any of the
clients I work with, of course Inaturally care and somewhat
even feel protective of themwhen I'm working with them at
times.
But I know how hard hitting aswe even talked about in some
(09:42):
recent episodes the spiritualcontracts of mind design
messaging can be, especiallywhen you look out at the world
and what people have to gothrough and to say that that's
all a part of a contract thatany of us, so to speak, signed
up for at some level within us.
The caring part of me reallydislikes saying that, because I
know how much pain and hurtpeople have actually gone
through.
(10:03):
So even though I 100 believe inthe messaging, the part of me
that doesn't want people to hurtmore and the fact that I know
this messaging actually bringsup more hurt in them, I feel the
caring part of me feelsresponsible.
I don't I want to be that guythat brings up that pain and
then etc, etc, etc.
Even though I know it's 100correct with michael's messaging
and the messaging that'sactually led to a lot of healing
(10:24):
in my journey, your journey,other people's journey.
But the point is that, evenwith all that logic there of
understanding, as we both knowthe emotional part of it though,
of the cost of the messagingand what that can bring up, so
to speak, because the caringpart of me doesn't want anyone
to hurt more than what they haveto, even though I know I'm not
(10:44):
responsible for their hurt tostart with.
So it'd be easier for me to say, oh, I'll just not care over
how people are going to respondto the messaging.
But it's not that simple, as weboth know.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You just can't turn off that part of you like a
switch you can't, you absolutelycan't, and if anybody could, it
would be me, because I've spenta lifetime trying, because I
thought that was the number oneproblem with me is that I cared
too much, and many people toldme that, but it is the essence
of who I am on so many differentlevels, so I can't just switch
(11:20):
it off.
I can't just switch it off but,as you so kindly tell me, when
I sit with me and love me, thenI can see the benefit somebody
else has going through thejourney that they're going
through.
And, of course, right at thismoment I have, as I always do,
(11:42):
quite a few people in my lifethat are going through quite a
few things that I would muchrather they'd not have to go,
and if I could take their painaway from them, I would.
Yep, absolutely it's just notgoing to happen.
It's just not going to happen.
So the most caring thing I cando is be present, sit in that
strength to remind them thatthey have what it takes to move
(12:02):
through this.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And I think sometimes it's only that when we're
exposed to how over-caring attimes ends up hurting or burning
us throughout life, that weactually begin to understand
where there hasn't beenboundaries, as you mentioned
earlier, as we go through life.
And I think the different waysin which that can appear is that
when there is just thatresentment that can often build
(12:25):
and let that be with ourpartners, with our family and
with our kids, with colleagues,friends, and even just a
generalized burnout that weactually don't know how to be
present with ourselves in mind,body emotions, and I think it's
that this definition ofself-care.
So if we don't have thatself-care, it's that how can
(12:45):
those parts of us actually beginto heal and revive themselves
as we go throughout life?
Because we're just giving toomuch and then we can get into
those patterns of that.
That's what then people expectof us, because that's all
they've ever known but you'vetalked about that often, even in
your experience over the yearsis that when you give so much
and then suddenly, when youstart to put in those boundaries
, it's like either I'm a caringperson or a horrible person.
(13:08):
It's like there's no in betweenyeah yeah, because it feels like
black and white.
Because we've never been shownor taught of how to find the
correct boundaries that suitseveryone's needs.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Because when you're trying to figure that out it
feels like an impossible taskI'm going to throw a spanner in
works here because I think thisis an important part to bring up
this subject and you're goingto remember this as soon as I
start to speak about it.
A few years ago, I spoke to youabout something I cared deeply
about, that was probably more ona global scale, and you just
(13:40):
kind of laughed at me and said,oh, you're just distracting
yourself.
And I was like you just kind oflaughed at me and said oh,
you're just distracting yourself, and I was like I really care
about this, I am reallygenuinely worried about what is
happening here and you know Ican sit here a couple years
later and go.
Okay, I see where you weretelling me.
I was distracting myself, but Igenuinely felt that I could see
(14:01):
how many people on the planetwere hurting because of the
general overall thing that washappening.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I felt so powerless and helpless in it, but again I
was able.
After you said it, as with mostthings that you say to me, I go
away kicking and screaming andgoing.
You're wrong, you're wrong,you're wrong, you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I hate it when he's right.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know, because what?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
a fun dynamic we have .
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's crazy, but it was very powerful for me because
I did.
That was the first time and Ican honestly say it's the first
time that I realized, oh, I cansee where.
I do this with a lot of thingsBecause it feels so important,
because so many people areinvolved, that we should care,
(14:55):
but I have no power over that.
So me caring and worrying doesnothing but harm me and anyone
that is around me and it'scounterproductive to what I'm
saying I care about.
And that was a very huge lessonin self-care that you taught me
around this subject, because Ijust didn't think I had any
(15:18):
control over that, because itjust felt so real to me at the
time and so important as they dowhen they're in your face and
it's a lesson for you to learn.
But then, once I got it and Iwas able to go, I see my job is
to take care of me and if I'mtaking care of me and I am still
(15:39):
being that loving, kind personto every single person around me
, that's where I affect thechange, not worrying about
what's happening on the globe.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, let's take a step back from this week's
episode and share with everyonewhat we've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(16:21):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And, as we talked about in the previous episode,
it's like worrying isworshipping the problem, and I
think it's that we never thinkthat being too caring can be a
problem.
I want to, especially in theexamples you're using there on a
global scale, that we neverthink we can care too much as a
way to escape ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah, I was not happy with you when you told me I
don't know if you remember, butI wasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And when I got it I like oh okay because it's not
saying that these things aren'tactually happening in the world
or they don't.
Of course it matters, and ofcourse if other people are going
through matters, but I thinksometimes we it's a warped
perspective at times of how muchimpact we can actually have to
create the change that we expectto see in the world, and it's
that we like.
(17:27):
At most things, it alwaysstarts with self, as you
mentioned, as we often talkabout, and the impact that we
can create around the peoplearound us.
But when we're starting toproject it out to millions or
billions of people and thegovernments and things that we
actually do not have any sortsof control of, as you're saying,
then you actually have to startquestioning what is this really
(17:50):
about?
And no one ever likes that lineof questioning, because, of
course, the point is valid, butwhen it's pumped with a lot of
emotion, I think that's whatit's always very telling about.
Where is that coming from?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, it's like you said to me back then and can say
now, because we're talkingabout self-care, you know the
mind gets creative and how itbrings things up, and I'm a
runner from way back, and so itwas just another way of running,
from the fear that I wasfeeling at that time, of feeling
out of control about what washappening, and so how many
(18:28):
people think caring can become away of running and avoiding?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Which it does in a lot of people's lives.
Yeah, and I think that's anaspect that we don't talk about
very much, about how it comes atthat cost, if we're using it to
avoid ourselves and what.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
what's happening for us so I think that's where it's
an important conversation tounderstand what are the dynamics
with our relationship withcaring too little or too much
and what, what are the differentevents in our lives that has
actually dictated where wecurrently are on that scale,
because, like anything we didn't, there's a history that comes
(19:11):
along with this and a lot of itdealt and a lot of it very much
undealt with, because we're justso unaware of all of these
patterns, behaviors that comewith it.
So I think, in diving into that, what are some of the tips or
ways in which we can startexploring our relationship with
those parts of us that we findourselves either caring too
(19:31):
little or caring too much?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So I think just even those words and we talked about
the pendulum before caring toolittle or caring too much are
the extremes of either end, andif we're at either end of those,
there's usually something thatwe don't want to look at and so
it's like, okay, so how do Istart to explore why I care too
(19:54):
much?
Or how do I look at why do I notcare at all?
And so there's some questionsthat we can ask ourselves and,
of course, as you and I alwayssay, getting professional help
or someone that's objective tohelp you look at it and see,
because many times the word thatgets used with caring too much
is codependent, because you arecaring about something outside
(20:20):
of you more than you are caringabout yourself and your own
well-being, your immediatefamily's well-being, and
everything is about outside ofyou.
So the more you can turn it inand go okay.
So what is this reflectingabout me and becoming present to
why it is you're caring andwhat's behind it?
(20:41):
And caring too little is justlike the caring too much is.
Am I trying to avoid?
What am I trying to avoid inthat?
And I don't think these arequestions that we can answer on
our own.
I think, like we've often said,we can start to write about it
and get an idea, but usually itjust brings up a lot of the
(21:03):
unexplored and unresolvedemotions that might be driving
some of that caring behavior.
But we need that outside sourceto be able to really understand
it and decipher it.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And I think this was interesting when we do start to
explore it or have theopportunity to, when you start
to to realize, as we weretalking a little briefly about
earlier was that the elements ofcaring that have been taught to
us and then the elements of itthat are due to experience.
What I mean by that is that,say, when it comes to family
dynamics or within friends,there's an expectation that you
(21:37):
should have a certain level ofcare, or if you don't go to
certain birthdays or certainevents, you don't care about us,
so therefore you have to turnup in order to show that you
care.
So this, so there isconditioned elements of caring
for ourselves or caring forothers.
That is kind of built into alot of the different cultures
globally.
And then there's certainexperiences that we were kind of
(21:59):
more talking about at the startof this episode is that when we
were caring too muchemotionally about a person, a
partner, a sibling, a friend orwhatever it might be, then it
being taken advantage of and weexperienced that head on, with
the emotional part of it versus,say, the former was the
logically we've been trained ortaught to have to care mentally
about because of who they are insociety, of what's expected
(22:23):
from us.
So it is actually quite layeredin the different ways in which
we approach this of what hasbeen taught to us to expect in
the black and white, or thatpendulum swing and caring when
it comes to cultural standardsand social norms, and then it
comes to our experiences.
That tend to be that lightswitch of I have to turn it on
or no, I have to turn it off,and it seems to sit back and
(22:44):
forward and so experiencedictates the emotional decisions
on that versus the culturalelements of what we've been
taught, of what we should orshouldn't care about.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Exactly, and you know we talk about.
The impact of that is thatresentment and the burnout,
because if you're out therecaring too much, you're usually
not taking care of yourself, youusually don't have the
boundaries, so of course you hitthe burnout and the resentment.
So if you have hit burnout andresentment, you're on one end of
those pendulums.
Or if you're like me I'm notgoing out of the house this week
(23:18):
you're probably at the otherend of the pendulum.
It's not necessarily a healthyplace to be.
So it's finding that middleground again, you know, and that
is what is so hard to navigateon our own, and I think this is
an important fact that none ofus like to face is that human
(23:40):
beings are a pack animal.
We are meant to be in community,and the reason we are meant to
be in community and the reasonwe are meant to be in community,
is because the community canhelp us understand ourself
better than we understandourself and can see where we are
running on a program or not,and so we have that or not, and
(24:09):
so we have that.
And then, once we start to turnthat reflection inward and we
start to take care of ourselves,of course there's going to be a
healthier level of caring.
It becomes natural, but it ishard, like a life for me, and
I'm going to say it like this itbecomes hard to do the
self-care when you've spent agood portion of your life caring
for somebody outside ofyourself.
(24:29):
And finding that fine line ofbalance can take a little bit of
practice and a lot of input cantake a little bit of practice
and a lot of input.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I couldn't agree more , and I think it's that,
regardless of where we are inthat pendulum swing, in either
extreme, both sides create veryunique wounds as we go through
life and those experiences.
So I think when we actuallystart becoming aware that we
need to explore caring more,caring less, and finding that
middle ground of what careshould mean for us present day,
(25:04):
it does mean healing the woundsfrom the past that were created
on either side of that pendulumswing, depending on who it was
with and especially if we'regoing throughout our entire
lives, there can be a lot ofdifferent memories or
experiences of individualsinvolved in that.
That has us continuing to swingfrom side to side.
So, and to get that middleground that's where setting the
boundaries becomes so important,as well as healing the wounds
(25:27):
that continue to, as I mentioned, have us go from one side to
the other, and we can't do thaton our own, but we have to begin
opening up, to begin exploringand learning from those
experiences.
As you said is that we are, bynature, caring individuals, so
if we ever think we're going tobe able to completely switch
that off, I don't believe that'sactually the end goal here.
(25:49):
It's not, but it's actuallylearning from the experience of
how do I get that balance inlife where I can still care for
myself, care for otherindividuals, share my
experiences, share my wisdom,want to understand what other
people are going through, but,if not, constantly taking a
mental, emotional or physicaltoll on myself present day to
(26:09):
the point of where I feel like Ihave to go hide, or else I have
to throw myself more intosomething else in order to prove
what to who.
Well, that's what everyone hasto go explore, to understand
what's driving any of this.
To start with, that's exactlyit.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And then, once we start to have the awareness that
our caring too much is actuallyhindering somebody.
So if you look at a parentthat's over caring for their
child, they think that they'rehelping their child, but they're
disabling their child becausethe child is not learning how to
work through certain things ontheir own and they're always
looking for someone else tosolve that problem.
(26:44):
And that's just a small example,but that's a huge example when
it comes to trying to find thatbalance.
Whether you're a parent, orwhether you're a friend, or
whether you're a lover, orwhether you're in a work
situation, if your caring isgetting in the way of somebody
else being able to explore theirown growth, then it's no longer
healthy caring, and that's agood guideline to be looking for
(27:08):
.
Am I caring too much about whatsomebody else's outcome is
going to be, because we thinkthat we're going to help them
but it's not actually helpingthem grow?
And I think that's an importantpoint to bring up when we talk
about these boundaries andstarting to do this
self-reflection, because youknow, I would have gathered the
(27:29):
8 billion people on the planetand just given them a great big
hug and said you know, we're allgoing to be okay, it's okay.
How is?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
that going?
That's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Not working so well for me at the moment.
Yeah, I was just gonna say itgoes back to recognizing the
limits.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
It's beautiful to care, but you can care too much
and you can actually hinder thepeople you love if you're doing
that codependency or that overcaring and disabling people and,
like most things, it's veryeasy to continue to focus just
on the external responses orpeople externally, of which is,
in ways in which we haveexamples of we've been caring
(28:13):
too little or caring too much,and so, like most things, I
think in doing this journey ofunderstanding our relationship
with any of these components isturning back to self, and I
think if we look back on our ownlives in the past and today and
present day, we can, if webegin exploring it, find
examples of ways in which whatways am I caring for myself too
(28:34):
little and what ways am Iactually caring for myself a
little too much, actually caringfor myself a little too much?
And I think it's that that'swhere you can see of how we
actually starve ourselves ofcertain things or certain things
that we actually need in mind,body, emotions or in connection
and in other ways you canactually see in caring too much
means it's actually maybefeeding certain addictions in
our life where we actually feelthat's part of what's maybe
(28:54):
going to help or heal thesituation that we often find
doesn't and keeps that imbalancegoing from one extreme to the
other.
So it's only when we actuallyunderstand of what does caring
for ourself actually look like.
Will that be in ways in whichis too little or too much?
It can actually be a greatindicator to understand why our
relationship is the way it iswith other people outside of us
(29:15):
externally, because we only everproject outwardly what's
already within us internally.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And we often don't want to see that reflection, and
so therefore, we hide from itor bury it or numb it or
whatever it is we're doing withwhatever addictions that might
be there at that time.
So I guess the other thing thatI would say is really important
is learning how to communicatewhat's happening inside of you
you and communicating withsomebody else, because I know in
(29:45):
my journey and learning how topull back that over caring too
much, I had to learn how to setthe boundaries, state the
boundaries say.
The no, which I know you canattest to, was not the easiest
journey for me to do, and in thevery beginning it felt like I
would die.
But the more I communicated it,the easier it became, and the
(30:09):
more I got practice of it, theeasier it is to stay to a
healthy boundary and not havethe guilt and the shame and all
the self-doubt come flooding inwith it.
But that also goes to healingthe wounds that you spoke about
earlier, and so when you put allof that together, you can see
why it gets set up the way itgets set up, because there's so
(30:30):
many layers that we're workingon at any given time as we're
doing this journey with thecaring or anything else that
we're working on at that moment,but I think it's important not
to kid ourselves and to learnhow to communicate, even within
ourself, about what's happening,because we're not always the
(30:52):
kindest people to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
No, and it's also that fact that other people are
also not the kindest people toourselves either, depending on
the circumstance.
And I think if we're being realabout this, especially if
you're trying to find thatbalance for yourself and for the
people around you, the realityis a lot of people may not be
that supportive in you findingthat balance, because they've
been benefiting from the fact ofthe imbalance for so long.
(31:16):
And that's where talking to aprofessional to understand what
that looks like and how to dothat with time becomes so
important, because that's whenpeople can begin to gaslight us
or say, get into our head inother ways because, as I
mentioned, they've beenbenefiting the fact that we
couldn't, that we have beencaring too much.
So even though in theory itsounds great that everyone
(31:38):
should want balance and everyoneshould want a self-care for
every person equally, that'sjust not always the reality or
the case.
Especially if you're trying tofind that balance with your boss
at work.
They're not going to want thatbalance because they were
getting more out of you fortheir money beforehand when you
were working overtime and notgetting paid for it.
So this is where it does bringup a lot of interesting
(32:02):
imbalances in our day-to-daylife, and we do have to learn
the skill sets to be equipped ofhow to deal with those
individuals who actually havebeen helping fund that imbalance
out of their own self-interest.
But would they ever admit that?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
of course not of course they're not going to
admit it in on level, whether itbe your boss, but also, of
course, the boss is going toenable it.
But even if you're starting towork on this and you look at it,
why are you working so hard andcaring about somebody else's
business more than you're caringabout yourself and your own
(32:35):
well-being?
And that's a very big questionto ask yourself, very
confronting question to ask, andwe don't always have the answer
straight away.
But that's a great place tostart and quite often we can't
do that on our own.
We just think that we want tobe good employees, but it's
never just about being a goodemployee.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I think this has been a very important conversation
for us to explore, becausereality is is that whether we
find ourselves caring too littleor caring too much about
ourselves, about the worldaround us, about family, about
friends the list goes on it'sour responsibility to actually
explore what is the emotionalresponse to something that is
actually driving either side ofit, because it's our we're
(33:17):
responding in a way that wethink is the solution went off
and it's not.
It actually finds ourselvesbeing exposed to more
experiences that just adds tothis imbalanced pendulum swing
that we continue to findourselves in.
So it's only when we actually gothrough enough of it throughout
life and we have and theawareness with that has come
from all of these differentexperiences, can we find
(33:38):
ourselves actually seeing it isthe right time now to begin
exploring this and questioningit, and you can't do that, as we
often talk about, until it isthe time is right to do that.
It can be a tough adjustment tofind that balance while also
continuing to engage with thereal world when people do have
busy jobs, busy lives maybe kidsin the house, grandkids, like
(33:59):
life can be so busy at times,especially when we are running
those people pleasing tendenciesat times and we're running.
It's just.
It's very hard sometimes, asyou said, to find that balance
on your own, and even when weare trying something new, we
don't actually know is it theright thing to do, or did we do
that right, or it's justsomething that constantly needs
communication and be talked out.
(34:20):
So I loved when you'd mentionedthat earlier, though it's that
we really can't do it on our own.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like most, like most things, it's something that we
need to take baby steps with, tounderstand how it, what it
means for us present day andwhat that means for us moving
forward well, I couldn't havesaid it better, and I think the
other thing that I would justleave everybody on, especially
having lived this life ofdealing with this same sort of
thing, is that it's notsomething that I'm going to go
(34:46):
in and work on and it's going tobe solved, and I never have to
have that problem ever again,because that is not the way it
works.
That is not the nature of whoyou are.
You've got ingrained programsthat have been there for most of
your life and there's differentlevels of awareness when it
(35:07):
comes to working on these things.
So, even though I might havebeen really bad at it at the
beginning or really deeply intothe caring too much, it doesn't
mean it got switched off and Idon't care.
I still care.
I just have more emotionalmaturity around how I care.
Do I still get caught out in itsometimes?
(35:27):
I absolutely do, and so I justI like to put that little
disclaimer in there foreverybody, because so many
people think they're going toget there.
It's going to be done, and weknow that this is an ongoing
process.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode,then you might want to check out
(35:48):
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(36:35):
Thanks again, and I hope youguys are having a lovely week.
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