December 23, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode of the Practical Spirituality Podcast, Gareth and Kim shed light on the often-unnoticed emotional roots of burnout. They examine how childhood experiences, especially emotional neglect, can lay the groundwork for the feelings of isolation and exhaustion many adults eventually face.
Their discussion reveals the real cost of pursuing achievements without emotional regulation skills, and how this can lead to emotional exhaustion. Through thoughtful conversation, the hosts highlight the value of learning how to say no, in order to create more reciprocal relationships.
Throughout the episode, listeners are guided through practical insights on how to recognize when change is necessary. The hosts emphasize the power of setting boundaries for relief and personal growth, showcasing how self-awareness and introspection can help prevent burnout. By addressing ingrained habits and recognizing the signs of self-neglect, individuals can cultivate a more balanced, fulfilling life.
Become a Community Member at https://community.garethmichael.com/ to join our community and get early access to new episodes, answers to your personal questions and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Hello Gareth, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doing good this morning.
How are you doing?
I am well, very well.
For this week's episode we'regoing to talk about burnout.
I think it's safe to say thisis a topic that comes up in
conversation a lot around thistime of year or finishing out
any given year.
I think everyone sees theholidays, it's coming to the end
of the year, people are tryingto get basically to the finish
(00:52):
line.
So I thought it would be a veryinteresting conversation to
have, but with a bit of a twist,if you want to say so.
The twist being is that if youlook at the normal definition of
burnout, it's a state of mental, physical and emotional
exhaustion caused by excessiveor prolonged stress.
So that's one of the officialdefinitions of burnout, but in
(01:15):
that definition it of coursementions mental, physical and
emotional.
But when it comes to theemotional side of burnout, I
don't think it's talked outenough, if at all.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I very rarely hear it talked out.
Very rarely do I hear anybodyaddressing that part of it,
because they all think it'sabout the level of time they're
spending working and all theto-do things that they have to
do.
Very rarely do you hear anybodytalking about the emotional
side.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I think of course we're going to talk about the
mental and physical as well, butthat is something we're all
familiar with, because we allthink, oh, if we just get more
rest, if I get another few hoursof sleep, if I just, you know,
get things off my to do list,then I'll be able to recuperate
and be more energized and beready for the new year.
(02:03):
But it's not always that simple, because I think we've all had
those experiences throughout theyears where we have slept for
days on end, when we had timeoff, but we just never seem to
be able to get fully rested orto be able to go back to our
peak and being able to performin how, in the way we expect
ourselves to, with thoseexpectations of how we should be
(02:24):
, in an ongoing basis.
So I think it'd be reallyinteresting to talk out what the
emotional side of burnout andthe effects that has on us in
our day-to-day lives.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I think it's interesting that if you do try
and talk to someone about theemotional side of it, they
immediately go to the fact that,well, they're not that
emotional or they haven't hadany big events happening to them
.
They don't see that theiremotions have been up or down,
and so they immediately dismissit.
Just like so many things aboutemotions in society, it gets
(02:57):
dismissed so easily that theydon't actually look at what some
of the ongoing factors of thatemotional side is.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Looking back on where some of these symptoms started
in any of our lives, whichusually goes back to childhood,
and, especially if we are notable to have a relationship with
our emotions, understand inwhat ways these symptoms
actually appear in adulthood,nevermind childhood.
You can link it back to times inour lives we were feeling
disconnected, unsupported,unheard, and that naturally has
(03:27):
us suppressed a lot of ouremotions and therefore we can't
communicate as effectively toanyone, let it be loved ones,
friendships, even to the peoplethat we are going to for support
therapists, coaches you findthat there is a weight that
comes along with us not beingable to have a relationship with
our own emotions and not beingable to communicate effectively.
(03:49):
So of course, we can get intothe symptoms of that which is
some of the standard ones areobviously going to be any of the
anxiety that we run depression,feeling hopeless, and then
physically we can feel fatigue.
Just feeling down affects oursleep, and I know we can go
through an entire list and I'msure everyone will be like that
sounds like me and it's like,yes, the heaviness.
(04:10):
The reason why it probably isrelatable is because there's
very few people from a veryyoung age has been able to have
an effective relationship withtheir emotions to allow them to
be able to not experienceburnout in this way.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But we also need to look at the factor that one of
the key things that happens inchildhood that creates some of
the characteristics that youjust described of emotional
burnout is what I often find,and when I bring this up with
any of my clients, they areabsolutely.
They fight it at first, andthat is the unseen emotional
(04:48):
neglect that so many people dealwith in childhood.
Because if you have parentsthat are emotionally unavailable
, that is hard to describe as aproblem, because they're there,
they're making dinner, you'vegot a house to sleep in, there's
a roof over your head, you'regoing to school, you've got
clothes to wear, your parentsare providing for you physically
(05:10):
, but when they're not providingemotionally, all of the
characteristics you justdescribed that isolation,
feeling unheard, feelingunsupported becomes natural, and
so normal that we don't evenrecognize it as adults as part
of the ongoing problem, becausewe just never have been hurt,
(05:31):
we've never, no one's ever,questioned how we're feeling or
we've been told not to feel.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, and this is why , as an adult, we have a level
of responsibility to starteducating ourselves and building
those relationships with ouremotions and it's not just the
emotions that we're talkingabout.
Of course, you can experiencethe burnout physically and
mentally, but in order torelease the burnout full stop,
you need to look at all threewith equal respect and with
(05:58):
equal cause in order to see howcan we make longer term changes.
But if you're starting thatjourney of looking at the
emotional element of it, thatalso means that there's going to
have to be some internal workdone and especially if we've
never been shown that's a safething to do or even how to do it
, it can feel like a veryintimidating task because if
we're looking at therelationship that we have with
ourselves internally, andespecially if that's
(06:21):
uncomfortable, well, the realityis is that the relationship
that we have internally oftenreflects relationships that we
have externally, and let that bethe relationships we grew up
with, the people that werearound us, our friendships, our
partners.
They often reflect one another.
So, as you were saying, ifyou've been around people from a
young age who were never thereemotionally for you, or you were
(06:42):
never able to learn these skillsets, then you can't expect
your relationship with yourselfto be any different.
Therefore, in order to actuallyhelp release that burnout, no
matter how much sleep we get,there's more layers to it and
that's why, even when we do whatwe think we should be doing
taking time off, resting, more,eating well, if it just doesn't
feel like it's ever enough, it'sbecause it's probably more of
(07:05):
the emotional side and we'relacking that ability to feed
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But then you also get into the argument with people
like myself, who I wouldn'tdream of it.
Who actually have formed such ahabit of.
You know, we can use the wordpleasing, or we could say doing
as the norm, because that oneespecially if we're in that fawn
(07:31):
process as a child, we arelearning to please others for
our survival technique, and thenit becomes normal and it's I'm
sure you've heard me say it veryoften that when I take time off
, it feels uncomfortable to meto take time off.
It feels uncomfortable to me totake time off because I'm not
achieving anything, and so I'vebeen so geared to achieve that
(07:53):
sitting with myself and thatmakes me think back to the very
first time that you asked me todo that sit in silence and my
body tried to get out of thechair 100 times.
And these are things thatpeople are not taught about.
We don't even have any cluethat that is a problem, because
it seems so normal and it seemsso productive that, of course,
(08:17):
if we are achieving andproducing, that must be a good
thing, instead of recognizingthat, yes, we may be doing that
and yes, that may be bringing infinancial gain, but it isn't
bringing any personal gain.
Is it bringing any satisfaction?
Is it bringing us any?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
peace.
I agree with what you're sayingand I think this is why it is
an important conversation,because it is nice to be able to
achieve those things and towork hard and to go after things
you want.
But I think the argument is isthat it shouldn't cost as much
as it does to ourselves, exactlybecause we weren't taught how
to emotionally regulate.
So if we were able tounderstand our emotions, express
(08:55):
them and be bettercommunicators about it, you can
still go and achieve what youwant to achieve and put in
equally hard work.
But we don't realize the costof it to ourselves and it leads
to extreme burnout, especiallyas the decades roll on.
Yes Because you and I had abrief conversation before the
recording that when you're young, so to speak, or in your
(09:17):
teenage years and in your 20s,you feel like you have the
energy to conquer the worldRight, because technically you
do.
You have the mental and physicalcapacity to keep up with how
chaotic and busy life is.
But then, as decades go on,when you're in your 40s, 50s,
60s, 70s, the mind and the bodynaturally start to slow down, as
it should.
The emotional weight of 60, 70years of experience of not being
(09:42):
able to effectively communicateis also there, and the weight
of that starts to slow us downin different ways and we are
forced.
When the mind and the body isnot operating in the way we
expect it to or in ways we thinkit should, then everything
starts to get heavier on usright across the board.
The body and the mind willalways find creative ways,
(10:04):
through different stages in ourlives, to force us to have to
deal with our emotions at somepoint.
Yes, so we're not sitting herepointing fingers at our
caregivers or our parents or oursociety or education.
we're saying they can't teach uswhat they didn't know
themselves exactly but when oursystem is telling us the
symptoms and there's it isaffecting us in our day-to-day
(10:27):
lives and when we are trying butyet we don't feel we're getting
the results of what's beenpromised, then we have to go
back to the drawing board and go.
What piece of this am I missing?
And, let's be honest, 99% of ushave been missing that piece.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, I would say 99% .
And not only that the ongoingeffect of how we relationships
and what our part in thatrelationship is and how we play
that role, why we think we wantsomething from a relationship,
our behavior often showssomething totally different and
(11:01):
so therefore, we're left withthose relationships and those
connections that we have goingwell.
When is it going to be my turn?
Because we often are in thatgiving, giving, giving giving
stage and with, of course, thehonest thought that it will come
back, naturally, because wethink that's just the way it is.
(11:21):
But yet when it doesn't and wedon't know how to have the
conversations because we haven'tlearned how to get our own
needs met, we don't know how toarticulate that to other people
then the resentment and the justavoidance starts to build.
And when the avoidance and theresentment starts to build, our
relationships start to breakdown.
That adds another layer ofweight on it and it feels almost
(11:45):
too hard to go out and have therelationships that we think we
want.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Exhausting.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes, it is.
Think we want Exhausting.
Yes, it is, and so I think it'simportant for us to look at are
our relationships feeding us orare they draining us?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
The latter, well, most of them are the latter, and
the reason why I say that isbecause when we don't have a
relationship with ourselves,majority of us haven't had the
opportunity to have arelationship with ourselves
ourselves.
Majority of us haven't had theopportunity to have a
relationship with ourselves.
Most of us tend to be peoplepleasers, as you mentioned, or
constantly giving ourselves toother people.
Then it is incredibly hard tofind, often, a relationship in
our lives that is balanced,where there is that equal give
(12:25):
and receive.
I do think, more often than not, relationships and friendships,
they do deplete us more thanmaybe what we recognize, but
because we've been so used to it, we can't see it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
No, we can't see it, and it's an interesting process,
as you and I both have spokenabout privately many times, when
you do start to say no to someof the relationships that you've
been giving, giving, giving andthe effects and let's make no
mistake about it that in itselfis very stressful.
If you're not used to doing itand you start saying no, that is
(12:59):
another extra drain on thesystem, because every part of
your body says this is not theway I'm supposed to do it.
I'm supposed to do it the otherway.
I'm always supposed to be therefor people, and when we're
saying no to that, then we addguilt and shame and whatever
else that's been unprocessedunderneath that on top of it.
The good news is it doesbalance out.
(13:21):
I mean, you know, it's justlike when you learn anything new
it's awkward, it's hard, it'sconfronting.
But the more that you practiceit, then you're starting to
teach the people you're inrelationship with how to have
more of a give and takerelationship.
But unless we start that, ifwe're always giving, they're not
going to.
It's just that simple.
(13:42):
And so that is also why itcomes back to us, why it's
important for us to recognize isthis what we are doing, and how
can we go about making thosechanges in our relationships?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Because for most of us, depending on the
relationship that we're talkingabout our friendship or
connection with family memberswe have been most likely
suppressing a lot of ouremotions for a very long time,
and when we get into the habitof doing that for so long, the
idea of opening up of courseisn't very intimidating.
But we don't often link what'shappening, the symptoms that are
(14:17):
happening to us is actuallylinked to the suppression over
an extended period of time, andit does feel, as you were saying
, too risky to step into thatand to open up, because people
get very defensive, veryreactive, and that makes us
often shut down even more,because it's like.
This is why I don't do this,because we're already feeling
(14:37):
burnt out, so the idea ofopening up does not feel like
it's going to refresh us.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
No, it feels like it's more work than it's worth,
and in the beginning there mightbe a little bit more work, but
that is what's important whenyou are learning how to
articulate your feelings andhave that reverence for yourself
.
It doesn't mean and we'recertainly not talking about
going out and dumping everythingthat we're feeling on our
(15:02):
friends and family.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That is not what we're talking about, but it is
about having that equal exchange.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
But it is about having that equal exchange and
it's about respecting the otherperson's feelings while at the
same time respecting your ownfeelings and your own emotions
around whatever topic you mightbe discussing.
But I think that's the firststep, is having that honest
conversation with self.
No-transcript.
(15:58):
So when you look at it in mind,body, emotions, it's about
starting to have that curiosity.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But it also means so like the misunderstanding is,
when we hit burnout, we think weneed to take a vacation and we
we need to rest and we need todo more self-care, which is all
true, except for it's how we'redoing that rest and how we're
doing that self-care.
Because if we're doing self-careand giving ourselves a nice
long soak in a bath or read of abook, and we're still not
(16:29):
addressing the emotional needs,read of a book, and we're still
not addressing the emotionalneeds, if we still can't say no
every time the phone rings,we're certainly not addressing
what needs to happen for us.
And so that's why, as we'veoften said on this podcast, how
important it is to pay attentionto the physical, the mental and
the emotional side, as well asthe spiritual side, you know,
(16:50):
because I think that's anotherwhole aspect of burnout that
gets completely overlooked.
Because if you're not, if youhaven't had the ability to know
what feeds your soul and you'retaking this time off and resting
or doing all the physical workand you might even be starting
to open up emotionally If youdon't have something that feeds
(17:14):
that part of you, that spiritualside of you, then that's just
one more aspect that you'remissing out on.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Let's take a step back from this week's episode
and share with everyone whatwe've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(17:53):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's understanding that there is a reason behind
why these experiences areunfolding the way they are.
And when we all if eight billionof us all have the mind, body,
emotion, soul components, theneach of those departments play a
vital role in understandingself.
And I do think is that whenyou're on this journey depending
on what you want to call that,your energy will eventually
(18:34):
guide you and begin opening youup bit by bit, with the right
resources, with the right people, and it's allowing yourself to
engage in that as that unfolds,because there's a reason why I
wasn't doing this 20 years ago.
There's a reason why you weren'tdoing this 20 years ago.
This 20 years ago there's stilllike certain experiences that
we had to go through withcertain individuals in our lives
(18:54):
at that time that were allleading us down a certain path
for ourselves and for theeventual growth that we're meant
to have.
It's easy to look back inhindsight and understand why it
was meant to be that way, butnow it's that it's understanding
that our energy is asking us tohave a better understanding of
all these different areas thatmake us fundamentally human and
if we're not going to allowourselves beginning opening of
(19:15):
all these different areas thatmake us fundamentally human?
And if we're not going to allowourselves to begin opening up
in those different areas, howcan we expect our lives to get
easier when we don't understandlife itself around us and within
us.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I guess the bigger question that's going to be
asked by so many people is so,as I get often asked the how
question how do I do any of that?
How do I know if I'm doing thator if I'm not doing that?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
When, the how or why questions begin appearing, if
that's a clear indicator thatchange is necessary.
And it's actually time for achange within ourselves for the
right reasons.
Because if we're asking thatquestion, it's time, whereas for
a long time, even if we wereaware of that, we still had the
opportunity to push away or tobury it, so we can no longer
actually buy in to the storythat we were telling ourselves
before, because it's that itbecomes unbearable or it's just
(20:06):
I can't live like this anymoreand let that be mentally,
emotionally, physically or allof the above, quite frankly.
But life has an interesting wayof saying to us okay, it's time
for a change, here's theopportunity, here's the things
we're going to haunt you with tokeep getting your attention,
but here is also the resources,the people.
(20:27):
It comes in waves, in the senseof when it's time for that
change that we've been askingfor, searching for, or it's just
time for.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So if I look back on some of the things that I've had
to address, you know, I thinkwhen it first came to discussing
burnout for me, especially whenyou and I first started
discussing it, I had no idea theemotional toll.
It I had no idea the emotionaltoll and I would have fought
(20:59):
tooth and nail on reclaimingwhat I needed in relationships
because that was so foreign tome.
So I think the very first stepis recognizing is there balance
in all your interactions withpeople?
Like Gareth said, if you'reasking these questions, it is
time, but the very first step todoing that is all right.
So is there an equal exchange?
Am I feeling supported?
(21:20):
Am I feeling heard in theserelationships?
And if I'm not, it's not aboutblasting the other person.
It's about what in me hasallowed this type of
relationship to continue and todevelop and what needs to change
in me.
It's never about focusing onthe other people, like we said
earlier.
It's about okay, so what needsto shift inside of me to have
(21:44):
more balance in theserelationships.
And that sometimes is where youdefinitely need an objective
point of view to be able to.
You definitely need anobjective point of view to be
able to see that in a differentway.
I would have argued till thecows came home about what needed
to shift and what didn't needto shift and how it wouldn't
(22:04):
shift.
And you know I'm very happy toreport and I'm sure people have
listened to this podcast overthe years.
You know my children used totalk to me about something if
they needed something, and theywould always preface the call
with now, mom, you know you cansay no and I'm happy to report.
They don't do that anymorebecause they now know that I
have the ability to say no.
But for a long time if theyasked a question, I would do
(22:27):
whatever it took to get thatsolution for them.
And it is really a huge weightoff the shoulders to sometimes
get a phone call, be able tolisten to what's going on for
those people and go.
I'm really sorry to hear thatand that there's nothing to be
done but to listen.
So I think that's theinteresting place for people to
(22:49):
start to understand is that theycan come back and see what's
going on in their relationships,their connections, their
relationship with work, theirrelationship with their own
house.
Are they driving themselvescrazy to reach a perfectionistic
point of view in life?
And if that is true, thenwhat's driving that?
It's not about just stopping it, because because some people do
(23:11):
like you know a very organizedhousehold and there's nothing
wrong with that, but what'sdriving underneath it that we
want to really look at andaddress how we can do that
differently?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But I think that's what's interesting about your
saying was also the challenge ofthat.
Not only do we not know why theburnout is there, and then,
even when we do figure out,sometimes the root of the
problem, sometimes in therelationships, then we don't
know how to have theconversation, and then there's
the fears about what that willlead to, and then the ongoing
(23:45):
exhaustion of the idea of it,because I'm already tired enough
.
So you can see why people avoidit so much and it's easier just
to say I'm just tired.
It's been a long week, a longmonth, a long life.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then you can also see why people do lean on their
vices or the many pleasures inlife in order to get through
because it's easier to have thatmoment of immediate
gratification with thesedifferent vices than to have to
have these conversations thatyou could argue we were never
allowed to have, trained to haveor ever expect to have.
(24:23):
But in saying that, this is theroot of being able to identify
and to learn those skills,Because if these relationships
have got us to this stage offeeling this depleted and this
burnt out, well it's only goingto continue to head in that
direction over many years tocome unless there is some change
(24:45):
created within self, by self,internally and externally, to
give us that opportunity to tryto reset and get balance.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Exactly.
And so then it's about, as youwere just saying, having an
understanding of what thatemotional attunement within self
actually is.
Because for most people thathave been running a program like
this for a very long timewouldn't have a clue what
emotional attunement is,wouldn't know how to recognize
(25:17):
whether I'm feeling emotionallysupported or balanced or
energized, and they wonder whythey get excited about a project
and then, as soon as theproject starts, they go.
I don't want to do this anymore, you know, and I agree with the
vices that you said.
So that is why, often, you andI both come back to getting to
(25:39):
know ourselves a little bitbetter, getting to understand
our emotions, understandingwhat's going on inside of us,
because until we can actuallytune into what it is inside of
us and feel good about it, thenwe're just going to continue the
cycles over and over and overagain and we'll continue to
(26:00):
blame oh, it's the end of theyear, there's too much work.
I've, you know, I've had, I'vetraveled overseas, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah all thosethings that we throw in there.
It's also, if we think about it, this is why, for years, we
talk about people having midlifecrisis, because they reach this
point and they go.
(26:21):
I just can't do it life thisway anymore.
But quite often they go out andthey think it's something else
that they're reaching for.
Another person, another object,another goal.
Instead of going, let me justturn around, bring that focus in
on me.
What would bring me joy on adaily basis inside of me?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think what the interesting point you made
earlier, though, is by taking astep back and looking at the
different relationships orfriendships within our lives,
the people that we're excited tomeet, feel energized by, versus
the people that we, so to speak, have to spend time with.
That you feel like you have totake a deep breath before
engaging in the conversation orin that time with them, but a
lot of us don't really everquestion what is it about that
(27:03):
person, these individuals thatmake me respond in a certain way
?
Do I feel seen, seen, do I feelheard?
Can I open up and express?
Or, with this person, do I feelguarded or do I have to shut
down and protect myself?
And then, when we weigh up theindividuals that we talk in on a
day-to-day basis and how manyof these people do we feel
guarded with and have to shutdown versus the people we open
(27:25):
up with is it actually balancedin who we're expected to be,
depending on who we're around?
I think you'll get your answerspretty quickly of what side of
it you're on or why we feel soburnt out, and I think there's
an interesting exercise to do,because a lot of us do engage
with a lot of different peoplein a given day that'd be family,
friends, colleagues and you cansee quite clearly when you ask
(27:47):
the correct questions of are weenergized or do we feel burnt
out by these engagements?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, and I just had another thought that, as you
were saying that about, you know, for those of us that have been
running that FON or pleasingprogram for many years, it's
often about acceptance, and sowe've been looking outside of
our ourselves for acceptance.
Yet how many people actuallyrealize that's what they've been
doing?
And so therefore, when they goto start to look at this, where
(28:16):
is that balance in thatrelationship?
You know, I know in thebeginning for me I felt like I
was going to be dying if I hadto not be entering the
relationship or the conversationmaking sure.
They felt okay, because thatwas the whole focus.
And so now to stop doing thatand to really meet my own needs,
(28:39):
that just felt so much harderthan anything else I had ever
done.
But I didn't come up with thaton my own, and that was after
many years of working on myselfbefore I started to recognize
that I was enteringrelationships making sure.
And so when the resentmentstarted to build not their fault
(29:00):
it was me who was doing all thegiving.
It was me who was doing all ofthe need for acceptance, so I
would bend over backwards.
Was doing all of the need foracceptance, so I would bend over
backwards.
So when it came time to stopthat or to change how I was
entering into the relationships,even that felt very awkward, to
say the least when you come tothat realization.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And then you were saying the bitterness that comes
up towards the other person andthe self-realization that we
did it to ourselves.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's a very tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It is Trust me.
I've had to swallow a few ofthose.
So you know, and not knowing howto do it differently is the
other thing, because it's allwell and good to sit here and
say this in hindsight becausewe've gone through so much of
that, but for someone who'sgoing through it it feels
(29:52):
excruciating and it feels likethe wrong factor is what has how
.
I just feel wrong.
I feel wrong if I'm not tryingto gain your acceptance, and
I'll never forget the day that Irealized so many of my
relationships were based on this, because someone would have a
point of of view and I wouldwant to give my point of view,
(30:13):
and I could feel myself stoppingbecause they might not approve
of my point of view, and if theydidn't approve of my point of
view, then I might lose thatrelationship, and then,
therefore, where would I be?
It's very sad, but that is thetruth, and I think there'll be a
lot of people that can relateto that.
And so then it was about havingto find the courage to say my
(30:35):
point of view, whether theyliked it or not.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And I think both are exhausting, but one benefits you
and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Exactly, exactly.
So.
I think you know, witheverything that we've covered so
far, what I think we're sayingmore than anything is to look
beyond the workload, to lookbeyond the busyness of the year
or the end of the year or whatwe think it is, whether it's
kids and school or work andprojects.
(31:04):
You know, home maintenance,life maintenance.
You know often, I hear today,you know, adulting is difficult.
I hear that very often.
And we're talking about lookingbeyond that and going why.
Let's look at why is it sodifficult, why is it causing us
so much challenge to do theseeveryday things and why is there
(31:29):
such a drain?
And then focus on which is whoand when?
Have we ever been taught how torecognize what fulfills our
emotional needs?
Because I mean seriously, Iwasn't ever taught how to
recognize what would fulfill myemotional needs.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I think in this conversation which has been
interesting because I'm sureyou've noticed your clients as
well this time of year theburnout side of it.
Everyone's feeling it in theirown respect.
It'll be mind, body, emotionsat different levels.
But we have to look back in ifyou're feeling it in any of
those areas.
It comes back to the ways inwhich we have been taught to
(32:07):
neglect ourselves in mind, body,emotions and, depending on the
person, it might be more in onearea than it is in the other, it
might be all three equally, butif that burnout is present,
it's because there's a lack ofrelationship with self in those
areas.
The good news is is that we cando something about that when
(32:28):
we're willing to be curious anddive into asking the questions
and exploring with the rightpeople.
And when we do that, it'samazing of where our
subconscious and conscious mindtakes us to help find those
answers within.
For many years, a lot of us haveturned to external excuses or
(32:48):
external distractions to stopourselves going inwards.
And that can be for verygenuine reasons, because a lot
of us have never been taught orshown to go inwards, how to do
it, when it can get to a stagewhere the burnout is actually
too strong, it's too much, andlife in its own way, forces us
or asks us to take a step backand to begin working on
(33:11):
ourselves in these differentways.
And that's when we need to askourselves are we creating
excuses?
Are we getting caught up in theworkload?
Are we looking at our how busyChristmas is and therefore
deferring certain conversationsor certain actions until the new
year, until February, becauseeveryone's just too busy?
I'm saying we all have ourgo-tos to avoid or to distract,
(33:38):
and so when we're going to beginto take responsibility for
those in our day-to-day lives,can we start creating the
changes to stop us from burningout in mind body emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Very good, very good.
(34:08):
You Connect with like-mindedindividuals through our app.
Navigate each step of thejourney together with us by
joining our Gareth Michaelcommunity.
Here are a few of the thingsyou're going to get.
You'll get exclusive real-timeaccess to live recording and
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(34:29):
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To learn more about ourcommunity, please go to
wwwgarethmichaelcom.
Thanks again and I hope youguys are having a lovely week.
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Hello Gareth, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm doing good this morning.
How are you doing?
I am well, very well.
For this week's episode we'regoing to talk about burnout.
I think it's safe to say thisis a topic that comes up in
conversation a lot around thistime of year or finishing out
any given year.
I think everyone sees theholidays, it's coming to the end
of the year, people are tryingto get basically to the finish
(00:52):
line.
So I thought it would be a veryinteresting conversation to
have, but with a bit of a twist,if you want to say so.
The twist being is that if youlook at the normal definition of
burnout, it's a state of mental, physical and emotional
exhaustion caused by excessiveor prolonged stress.
So that's one of the officialdefinitions of burnout, but in
(01:15):
that definition it of coursementions mental, physical and
emotional.
But when it comes to theemotional side of burnout, I
don't think it's talked outenough, if at all.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I very rarely hear it talked out.
Very rarely do I hear anybodyaddressing that part of it,
because they all think it'sabout the level of time they're
spending working and all theto-do things that they have to
do.
Very rarely do you hear anybodytalking about the emotional
side.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I think of course we're going to talk about the
mental and physical as well, butthat is something we're all
familiar with, because we allthink, oh, if we just get more
rest, if I get another few hoursof sleep, if I just, you know,
get things off my to do list,then I'll be able to recuperate
and be more energized and beready for the new year.
(02:03):
But it's not always that simple, because I think we've all had
those experiences throughout theyears where we have slept for
days on end, when we had timeoff, but we just never seem to
be able to get fully rested orto be able to go back to our
peak and being able to performin how, in the way we expect
ourselves to, with thoseexpectations of how we should be
(02:24):
, in an ongoing basis.
So I think it'd be reallyinteresting to talk out what the
emotional side of burnout andthe effects that has on us in
our day-to-day lives.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I think it's interesting that if you do try
and talk to someone about theemotional side of it, they
immediately go to the fact that,well, they're not that
emotional or they haven't hadany big events happening to them
.
They don't see that theiremotions have been up or down,
and so they immediately dismissit.
Just like so many things aboutemotions in society, it gets
(02:57):
dismissed so easily that theydon't actually look at what some
of the ongoing factors of thatemotional side is.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Looking back on where some of these symptoms started
in any of our lives, whichusually goes back to childhood,
and, especially if we are notable to have a relationship with
our emotions, understand inwhat ways these symptoms
actually appear in adulthood,nevermind childhood.
You can link it back to times inour lives we were feeling
disconnected, unsupported,unheard, and that naturally has
(03:27):
us suppressed a lot of ouremotions and therefore we can't
communicate as effectively toanyone, let it be loved ones,
friendships, even to the peoplethat we are going to for support
therapists, coaches you findthat there is a weight that
comes along with us not beingable to have a relationship with
our own emotions and not beingable to communicate effectively.
(03:49):
So of course, we can get intothe symptoms of that which is
some of the standard ones areobviously going to be any of the
anxiety that we run depression,feeling hopeless, and then
physically we can feel fatigue.
Just feeling down affects oursleep, and I know we can go
through an entire list and I'msure everyone will be like that
sounds like me and it's like,yes, the heaviness.
(04:10):
The reason why it probably isrelatable is because there's
very few people from a veryyoung age has been able to have
an effective relationship withtheir emotions to allow them to
be able to not experienceburnout in this way.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But we also need to look at the factor that one of
the key things that happens inchildhood that creates some of
the characteristics that youjust described of emotional
burnout is what I often find,and when I bring this up with
any of my clients, they areabsolutely.
They fight it at first, andthat is the unseen emotional
(04:48):
neglect that so many people dealwith in childhood.
Because if you have parentsthat are emotionally unavailable
, that is hard to describe as aproblem, because they're there,
they're making dinner, you'vegot a house to sleep in, there's
a roof over your head, you'regoing to school, you've got
clothes to wear, your parentsare providing for you physically
(05:10):
, but when they're not providingemotionally, all of the
characteristics you justdescribed that isolation,
feeling unheard, feelingunsupported becomes natural, and
so normal that we don't evenrecognize it as adults as part
of the ongoing problem, becausewe just never have been hurt,
(05:31):
we've never, no one's ever,questioned how we're feeling or
we've been told not to feel.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, and this is why , as an adult, we have a level
of responsibility to starteducating ourselves and building
those relationships with ouremotions and it's not just the
emotions that we're talkingabout.
Of course, you can experiencethe burnout physically and
mentally, but in order torelease the burnout full stop,
you need to look at all threewith equal respect and with
(05:58):
equal cause in order to see howcan we make longer term changes.
But if you're starting thatjourney of looking at the
emotional element of it, thatalso means that there's going to
have to be some internal workdone and especially if we've
never been shown that's a safething to do or even how to do it
, it can feel like a veryintimidating task because if
we're looking at therelationship that we have with
ourselves internally, andespecially if that's
(06:21):
uncomfortable, well, the realityis is that the relationship
that we have internally oftenreflects relationships that we
have externally, and let that bethe relationships we grew up
with, the people that werearound us, our friendships, our
partners.
They often reflect one another.
So, as you were saying, ifyou've been around people from a
young age who were never thereemotionally for you, or you were
(06:42):
never able to learn these skillsets, then you can't expect
your relationship with yourselfto be any different.
Therefore, in order to actuallyhelp release that burnout, no
matter how much sleep we get,there's more layers to it and
that's why, even when we do whatwe think we should be doing
taking time off, resting, more,eating well, if it just doesn't
feel like it's ever enough, it'sbecause it's probably more of
(07:05):
the emotional side and we'relacking that ability to feed
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But then you also get into the argument with people
like myself, who I wouldn'tdream of it.
Who actually have formed such ahabit of.
You know, we can use the wordpleasing, or we could say doing
as the norm, because that oneespecially if we're in that fawn
(07:31):
process as a child, we arelearning to please others for
our survival technique, and thenit becomes normal and it's I'm
sure you've heard me say it veryoften that when I take time off
, it feels uncomfortable to meto take time off.
It feels uncomfortable to me totake time off because I'm not
achieving anything, and so I'vebeen so geared to achieve that
(07:53):
sitting with myself and thatmakes me think back to the very
first time that you asked me todo that sit in silence and my
body tried to get out of thechair 100 times.
And these are things thatpeople are not taught about.
We don't even have any cluethat that is a problem, because
it seems so normal and it seemsso productive that, of course,
(08:17):
if we are achieving andproducing, that must be a good
thing, instead of recognizingthat, yes, we may be doing that
and yes, that may be bringing infinancial gain, but it isn't
bringing any personal gain.
Is it bringing any satisfaction?
Is it bringing us any?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
peace.
I agree with what you're sayingand I think this is why it is
an important conversation,because it is nice to be able to
achieve those things and towork hard and to go after things
you want.
But I think the argument is isthat it shouldn't cost as much
as it does to ourselves, exactlybecause we weren't taught how
to emotionally regulate.
So if we were able tounderstand our emotions, express
(08:55):
them and be bettercommunicators about it, you can
still go and achieve what youwant to achieve and put in
equally hard work.
But we don't realize the costof it to ourselves and it leads
to extreme burnout, especiallyas the decades roll on.
Yes Because you and I had abrief conversation before the
recording that when you're young, so to speak, or in your
(09:17):
teenage years and in your 20s,you feel like you have the
energy to conquer the worldRight, because technically you
do.
You have the mental and physicalcapacity to keep up with how
chaotic and busy life is.
But then, as decades go on,when you're in your 40s, 50s,
60s, 70s, the mind and the bodynaturally start to slow down, as
it should.
The emotional weight of 60, 70years of experience of not being
(09:42):
able to effectively communicateis also there, and the weight
of that starts to slow us downin different ways and we are
forced.
When the mind and the body isnot operating in the way we
expect it to or in ways we thinkit should, then everything
starts to get heavier on usright across the board.
The body and the mind willalways find creative ways,
(10:04):
through different stages in ourlives, to force us to have to
deal with our emotions at somepoint.
Yes, so we're not sitting herepointing fingers at our
caregivers or our parents or oursociety or education.
we're saying they can't teach uswhat they didn't know
themselves exactly but when oursystem is telling us the
symptoms and there's it isaffecting us in our day-to-day
(10:27):
lives and when we are trying butyet we don't feel we're getting
the results of what's beenpromised, then we have to go
back to the drawing board and go.
What piece of this am I missing?
And, let's be honest, 99% of ushave been missing that piece.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, I would say 99% .
And not only that the ongoingeffect of how we relationships
and what our part in thatrelationship is and how we play
that role, why we think we wantsomething from a relationship,
our behavior often showssomething totally different and
(11:01):
so therefore, we're left withthose relationships and those
connections that we have goingwell.
When is it going to be my turn?
Because we often are in thatgiving, giving, giving giving
stage and with, of course, thehonest thought that it will come
back, naturally, because wethink that's just the way it is.
(11:21):
But yet when it doesn't and wedon't know how to have the
conversations because we haven'tlearned how to get our own
needs met, we don't know how toarticulate that to other people
then the resentment and the justavoidance starts to build.
And when the avoidance and theresentment starts to build, our
relationships start to breakdown.
That adds another layer ofweight on it and it feels almost
(11:45):
too hard to go out and have therelationships that we think we
want.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Exhausting.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes, it is.
Think we want Exhausting.
Yes, it is, and so I think it'simportant for us to look at are
our relationships feeding us orare they draining us?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
The latter, well, most of them are the latter, and
the reason why I say that isbecause when we don't have a
relationship with ourselves,majority of us haven't had the
opportunity to have arelationship with ourselves
ourselves.
Majority of us haven't had theopportunity to have a
relationship with ourselves.
Most of us tend to be peoplepleasers, as you mentioned, or
constantly giving ourselves toother people.
Then it is incredibly hard tofind, often, a relationship in
our lives that is balanced,where there is that equal give
(12:25):
and receive.
I do think, more often than not, relationships and friendships,
they do deplete us more thanmaybe what we recognize, but
because we've been so used to it, we can't see it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
No, we can't see it, and it's an interesting process,
as you and I both have spokenabout privately many times, when
you do start to say no to someof the relationships that you've
been giving, giving, giving andthe effects and let's make no
mistake about it that in itselfis very stressful.
If you're not used to doing itand you start saying no, that is
(12:59):
another extra drain on thesystem, because every part of
your body says this is not theway I'm supposed to do it.
I'm supposed to do it the otherway.
I'm always supposed to be therefor people, and when we're
saying no to that, then we addguilt and shame and whatever
else that's been unprocessedunderneath that on top of it.
The good news is it doesbalance out.
(13:21):
I mean, you know, it's justlike when you learn anything new
it's awkward, it's hard, it'sconfronting.
But the more that you practiceit, then you're starting to
teach the people you're inrelationship with how to have
more of a give and takerelationship.
But unless we start that, ifwe're always giving, they're not
going to.
It's just that simple.
(13:42):
And so that is also why itcomes back to us, why it's
important for us to recognize isthis what we are doing, and how
can we go about making thosechanges in our relationships?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Because for most of us, depending on the
relationship that we're talkingabout our friendship or
connection with family memberswe have been most likely
suppressing a lot of ouremotions for a very long time,
and when we get into the habitof doing that for so long, the
idea of opening up of courseisn't very intimidating.
But we don't often link what'shappening, the symptoms that are
(14:17):
happening to us is actuallylinked to the suppression over
an extended period of time, andit does feel, as you were saying
, too risky to step into thatand to open up, because people
get very defensive, veryreactive, and that makes us
often shut down even more,because it's like.
This is why I don't do this,because we're already feeling
(14:37):
burnt out, so the idea ofopening up does not feel like
it's going to refresh us.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
No, it feels like it's more work than it's worth,
and in the beginning there mightbe a little bit more work, but
that is what's important whenyou are learning how to
articulate your feelings andhave that reverence for yourself
.
It doesn't mean and we'recertainly not talking about
going out and dumping everythingthat we're feeling on our
(15:02):
friends and family.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That is not what we're talking about, but it is
about having that equal exchange.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
But it is about having that equal exchange and
it's about respecting the otherperson's feelings while at the
same time respecting your ownfeelings and your own emotions
around whatever topic you mightbe discussing.
But I think that's the firststep, is having that honest
conversation with self.
No-transcript.
(15:58):
So when you look at it in mind,body, emotions, it's about
starting to have that curiosity.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But it also means so like the misunderstanding is,
when we hit burnout, we think weneed to take a vacation and we
we need to rest and we need todo more self-care, which is all
true, except for it's how we'redoing that rest and how we're
doing that self-care.
Because if we're doing self-careand giving ourselves a nice
long soak in a bath or read of abook, and we're still not
(16:29):
addressing the emotional needs,read of a book, and we're still
not addressing the emotionalneeds, if we still can't say no
every time the phone rings,we're certainly not addressing
what needs to happen for us.
And so that's why, as we'veoften said on this podcast, how
important it is to pay attentionto the physical, the mental and
the emotional side, as well asthe spiritual side, you know,
(16:50):
because I think that's anotherwhole aspect of burnout that
gets completely overlooked.
Because if you're not, if youhaven't had the ability to know
what feeds your soul and you'retaking this time off and resting
or doing all the physical workand you might even be starting
to open up emotionally If youdon't have something that feeds
(17:14):
that part of you, that spiritualside of you, then that's just
one more aspect that you'remissing out on.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Let's take a step back from this week's episode
and share with everyone whatwe've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(17:53):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
It's understanding that there is a reason behind
why these experiences areunfolding the way they are.
And when we all if eight billionof us all have the mind, body,
emotion, soul components, theneach of those departments play a
vital role in understandingself.
And I do think is that whenyou're on this journey depending
on what you want to call that,your energy will eventually
(18:34):
guide you and begin opening youup bit by bit, with the right
resources, with the right people, and it's allowing yourself to
engage in that as that unfolds,because there's a reason why I
wasn't doing this 20 years ago.
There's a reason why you weren'tdoing this 20 years ago.
This 20 years ago there's stilllike certain experiences that
we had to go through withcertain individuals in our lives
(18:54):
at that time that were allleading us down a certain path
for ourselves and for theeventual growth that we're meant
to have.
It's easy to look back inhindsight and understand why it
was meant to be that way, butnow it's that it's understanding
that our energy is asking us tohave a better understanding of
all these different areas thatmake us fundamentally human and
if we're not going to allowourselves beginning opening of
(19:15):
all these different areas thatmake us fundamentally human?
And if we're not going to allowourselves to begin opening up
in those different areas, howcan we expect our lives to get
easier when we don't understandlife itself around us and within
us.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I guess the bigger question that's going to be
asked by so many people is so,as I get often asked the how
question how do I do any of that?
How do I know if I'm doing thator if I'm not doing that?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
When, the how or why questions begin appearing, if
that's a clear indicator thatchange is necessary.
And it's actually time for achange within ourselves for the
right reasons.
Because if we're asking thatquestion, it's time, whereas for
a long time, even if we wereaware of that, we still had the
opportunity to push away or tobury it, so we can no longer
actually buy in to the storythat we were telling ourselves
before, because it's that itbecomes unbearable or it's just
(20:06):
I can't live like this anymoreand let that be mentally,
emotionally, physically or allof the above, quite frankly.
But life has an interesting wayof saying to us okay, it's time
for a change, here's theopportunity, here's the things
we're going to haunt you with tokeep getting your attention,
but here is also the resources,the people.
(20:27):
It comes in waves, in the senseof when it's time for that
change that we've been askingfor, searching for, or it's just
time for.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
So if I look back on some of the things that I've had
to address, you know, I thinkwhen it first came to discussing
burnout for me, especially whenyou and I first started
discussing it, I had no idea theemotional toll.
It I had no idea the emotionaltoll and I would have fought
(20:59):
tooth and nail on reclaimingwhat I needed in relationships
because that was so foreign tome.
So I think the very first stepis recognizing is there balance
in all your interactions withpeople?
Like Gareth said, if you'reasking these questions, it is
time, but the very first step todoing that is all right.
So is there an equal exchange?
Am I feeling supported?
(21:20):
Am I feeling heard in theserelationships?
And if I'm not, it's not aboutblasting the other person.
It's about what in me hasallowed this type of
relationship to continue and todevelop and what needs to change
in me.
It's never about focusing onthe other people, like we said
earlier.
It's about okay, so what needsto shift inside of me to have
(21:44):
more balance in theserelationships.
And that sometimes is where youdefinitely need an objective
point of view to be able to.
You definitely need anobjective point of view to be
able to see that in a differentway.
I would have argued till thecows came home about what needed
to shift and what didn't needto shift and how it wouldn't
(22:04):
shift.
And you know I'm very happy toreport and I'm sure people have
listened to this podcast overthe years.
You know my children used totalk to me about something if
they needed something, and theywould always preface the call
with now, mom, you know you cansay no and I'm happy to report.
They don't do that anymorebecause they now know that I
have the ability to say no.
But for a long time if theyasked a question, I would do
(22:27):
whatever it took to get thatsolution for them.
And it is really a huge weightoff the shoulders to sometimes
get a phone call, be able tolisten to what's going on for
those people and go.
I'm really sorry to hear thatand that there's nothing to be
done but to listen.
So I think that's theinteresting place for people to
(22:49):
start to understand is that theycan come back and see what's
going on in their relationships,their connections, their
relationship with work, theirrelationship with their own
house.
Are they driving themselvescrazy to reach a perfectionistic
point of view in life?
And if that is true, thenwhat's driving that?
It's not about just stopping it, because because some people do
(23:11):
like you know a very organizedhousehold and there's nothing
wrong with that, but what'sdriving underneath it that we
want to really look at andaddress how we can do that
differently?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But I think that's what's interesting about your
saying was also the challenge ofthat.
Not only do we not know why theburnout is there, and then,
even when we do figure out,sometimes the root of the
problem, sometimes in therelationships, then we don't
know how to have theconversation, and then there's
the fears about what that willlead to, and then the ongoing
(23:45):
exhaustion of the idea of it,because I'm already tired enough
.
So you can see why people avoidit so much and it's easier just
to say I'm just tired.
It's been a long week, a longmonth, a long life.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And then you can also see why people do lean on their
vices or the many pleasures inlife in order to get through
because it's easier to have thatmoment of immediate
gratification with thesedifferent vices than to have to
have these conversations thatyou could argue we were never
allowed to have, trained to haveor ever expect to have.
(24:23):
But in saying that, this is theroot of being able to identify
and to learn those skills,Because if these relationships
have got us to this stage offeeling this depleted and this
burnt out, well it's only goingto continue to head in that
direction over many years tocome unless there is some change
(24:45):
created within self, by self,internally and externally, to
give us that opportunity to tryto reset and get balance.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Exactly.
And so then it's about, as youwere just saying, having an
understanding of what thatemotional attunement within self
actually is.
Because for most people thathave been running a program like
this for a very long timewouldn't have a clue what
emotional attunement is,wouldn't know how to recognize
(25:17):
whether I'm feeling emotionallysupported or balanced or
energized, and they wonder whythey get excited about a project
and then, as soon as theproject starts, they go.
I don't want to do this anymore, you know, and I agree with the
vices that you said.
So that is why, often, you andI both come back to getting to
(25:39):
know ourselves a little bitbetter, getting to understand
our emotions, understandingwhat's going on inside of us,
because until we can actuallytune into what it is inside of
us and feel good about it, thenwe're just going to continue the
cycles over and over and overagain and we'll continue to
(26:00):
blame oh, it's the end of theyear, there's too much work.
I've, you know, I've had, I'vetraveled overseas, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah all thosethings that we throw in there.
It's also, if we think about it, this is why, for years, we
talk about people having midlifecrisis, because they reach this
point and they go.
(26:21):
I just can't do it life thisway anymore.
But quite often they go out andthey think it's something else
that they're reaching for.
Another person, another object,another goal.
Instead of going, let me justturn around, bring that focus in
on me.
What would bring me joy on adaily basis inside of me?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I think what the interesting point you made
earlier, though, is by taking astep back and looking at the
different relationships orfriendships within our lives,
the people that we're excited tomeet, feel energized by, versus
the people that we, so to speak, have to spend time with.
That you feel like you have totake a deep breath before
engaging in the conversation orin that time with them, but a
lot of us don't really everquestion what is it about that
(27:03):
person, these individuals thatmake me respond in a certain way
?
Do I feel seen, seen, do I feelheard?
Can I open up and express?
Or, with this person, do I feelguarded or do I have to shut
down and protect myself?
And then, when we weigh up theindividuals that we talk in on a
day-to-day basis and how manyof these people do we feel
guarded with and have to shutdown versus the people we open
(27:25):
up with is it actually balancedin who we're expected to be,
depending on who we're around?
I think you'll get your answerspretty quickly of what side of
it you're on or why we feel soburnt out, and I think there's
an interesting exercise to do,because a lot of us do engage
with a lot of different peoplein a given day that'd be family,
friends, colleagues and you cansee quite clearly when you ask
(27:47):
the correct questions of are weenergized or do we feel burnt
out by these engagements?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, and I just had another thought that, as you
were saying that about, you know, for those of us that have been
running that FON or pleasingprogram for many years, it's
often about acceptance, and sowe've been looking outside of
our ourselves for acceptance.
Yet how many people actuallyrealize that's what they've been
doing?
And so therefore, when they goto start to look at this, where
(28:16):
is that balance in thatrelationship?
You know, I know in thebeginning for me I felt like I
was going to be dying if I hadto not be entering the
relationship or the conversationmaking sure.
They felt okay, because thatwas the whole focus.
And so now to stop doing thatand to really meet my own needs,
(28:39):
that just felt so much harderthan anything else I had ever
done.
But I didn't come up with thaton my own, and that was after
many years of working on myselfbefore I started to recognize
that I was enteringrelationships making sure.
And so when the resentmentstarted to build not their fault
(29:00):
it was me who was doing all thegiving.
It was me who was doing all ofthe need for acceptance, so I
would bend over backwards.
Was doing all of the need foracceptance, so I would bend over
backwards.
So when it came time to stopthat or to change how I was
entering into the relationships,even that felt very awkward, to
say the least when you come tothat realization.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And then you were saying the bitterness that comes
up towards the other person andthe self-realization that we
did it to ourselves.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's a very tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It is Trust me.
I've had to swallow a few ofthose.
So you know, and not knowing howto do it differently is the
other thing, because it's allwell and good to sit here and
say this in hindsight becausewe've gone through so much of
that, but for someone who'sgoing through it it feels
(29:52):
excruciating and it feels likethe wrong factor is what has how
.
I just feel wrong.
I feel wrong if I'm not tryingto gain your acceptance, and
I'll never forget the day that Irealized so many of my
relationships were based on this, because someone would have a
point of of view and I wouldwant to give my point of view,
(30:13):
and I could feel myself stoppingbecause they might not approve
of my point of view, and if theydidn't approve of my point of
view, then I might lose thatrelationship, and then,
therefore, where would I be?
It's very sad, but that is thetruth, and I think there'll be a
lot of people that can relateto that.
And so then it was about havingto find the courage to say my
(30:35):
point of view, whether theyliked it or not.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
And I think both are exhausting, but one benefits you
and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Exactly, exactly.
So.
I think you know, witheverything that we've covered so
far, what I think we're sayingmore than anything is to look
beyond the workload, to lookbeyond the busyness of the year
or the end of the year or whatwe think it is, whether it's
kids and school or work andprojects.
(31:04):
You know, home maintenance,life maintenance.
You know often, I hear today,you know, adulting is difficult.
I hear that very often.
And we're talking about lookingbeyond that and going why.
Let's look at why is it sodifficult, why is it causing us
so much challenge to do theseeveryday things and why is there
(31:29):
such a drain?
And then focus on which is whoand when?
Have we ever been taught how torecognize what fulfills our
emotional needs?
Because I mean seriously, Iwasn't ever taught how to
recognize what would fulfill myemotional needs.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I think in this conversation which has been
interesting because I'm sureyou've noticed your clients as
well this time of year theburnout side of it.
Everyone's feeling it in theirown respect.
It'll be mind, body, emotionsat different levels.
But we have to look back in ifyou're feeling it in any of
those areas.
It comes back to the ways inwhich we have been taught to
(32:07):
neglect ourselves in mind, body,emotions and, depending on the
person, it might be more in onearea than it is in the other, it
might be all three equally, butif that burnout is present,
it's because there's a lack ofrelationship with self in those
areas.
The good news is is that we cando something about that when
(32:28):
we're willing to be curious anddive into asking the questions
and exploring with the rightpeople.
And when we do that, it'samazing of where our
subconscious and conscious mindtakes us to help find those
answers within.
For many years, a lot of us haveturned to external excuses or
(32:48):
external distractions to stopourselves going inwards.
And that can be for verygenuine reasons, because a lot
of us have never been taught orshown to go inwards, how to do
it, when it can get to a stagewhere the burnout is actually
too strong, it's too much, andlife in its own way, forces us
or asks us to take a step backand to begin working on
(33:11):
ourselves in these differentways.
And that's when we need to askourselves are we creating
excuses?
Are we getting caught up in theworkload?
Are we looking at our how busyChristmas is and therefore
deferring certain conversationsor certain actions until the new
year, until February, becauseeveryone's just too busy?
I'm saying we all have ourgo-tos to avoid or to distract,
(33:38):
and so when we're going to beginto take responsibility for
those in our day-to-day lives,can we start creating the
changes to stop us from burningout in mind body emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Very good, very good.
(34:08):
You Connect with like-mindedindividuals through our app.
Navigate each step of thejourney together with us by
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Thanks again and I hope youguys are having a lovely week.
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