May 5, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of the Practical Spirituality Podcast, Gareth and Kim explore the hidden harm behind the constant push for positivity in the spiritual and self-help worlds. They discuss how forced positivity can become a defense mechanism, blocking authentic connection and emotional healing.
Our hosts assess how covering up uncomfortable emotions with positive thinking doesn't make them go away; it simply buries them, where they resurface later in unexpected and often harmful ways. Through personal stories they highlight how toxic positivity shows up in everyday moments, and how this reveals a deeper cultural discomfort with emotional honesty and vulnerability.
Gareth and Kim assess tools for building emotional intelligence: removing judgment from emotions, validating all feelings, practicing active listening, and expanding emotional vocabulary. By getting more comfortable with the full emotional spectrum, even difficult emotions can become valuable guides rather than threats.
This episode invites listeners to stop gaslighting their own experiences and begin forming a more genuine relationship with themselves. With compassion and practical guidance, Gareth and Kim show how true growth comes from acknowledging every part of the emotional journey—not just the pleasant parts.
Become a Community Member at https://community.garethmichael.com/ to join our community and get early access to new episodes, answers to your personal questions and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello Gareth.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you doing this evening?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I am surviving.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You had a pretty crazy weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I've had a pretty full-on five days.
Yes, I have, and for those ofyou who don't know, I was
helping take care of my twobeautiful grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Who are both under the age of three.
Three, yeah, it's quite ahandful.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How quickly we forget .
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Once again, another interesting episode for this
week.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It is indeed going to be interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
But I do think we've all, especially when we've been
on this journey of exploringourselves I think especially
when new age started to become ahuge deal and more accessible
and, of course, the differentelements of psychology and
self-help.
There's always been such a hype, even still to this day, around
positivity and for thelong-term listeners of this
(01:23):
podcast, they know we've hadsome interesting comments in the
past surrounding positivity andthe role that it of course,
plays in the journey ofunderstanding self.
But then sometimes how peoplecan, unintentionally maybe, lean
too much into it to the pointof where it actually causes an
imbalance in our lives which cancome at a surprise or a shock
(01:45):
to us, because we think how canyou ever be imbalanced when it
comes to being such a positiveperson?
Right, but what we don'trealize is how that level of
positivity isn't necessarilyorganic.
It can be forced, it's more ofa mindset and it's actually
burying a lot of other thingsthat maybe we weren't quite
aware of.
That's exactly what we weredoing.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yes, I agree, but not always.
We're not saying it always is,but it has a tendency to bury a
lot of things when peoplehaven't had the ability or the
curiosity or the support toexplore some of the things that
they don't want to be looking atin their lives.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yes, yes, and I think it's where people can deem it
as toxic positivity at times.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I know that's quite an extreme version of events,
because I do think that ofcourse it plays an important
role in our lives and it'simportant to have, I do think, a
positive outlook on life andunderstanding that there is a
reason behind why certain thingshappen, and to want to see the
good in people and the good inthe world.
But that, but if we don't havea good, solid relationship or
(02:53):
foundation with our negativeemotions or the experiences
we've gone through and we'rejust forcing ourselves or
forcing others to talk onlypositive and that they're not
allowed to be communicative orexpressive about what's going on
with their lives, without no no, you just need to change your
mindset and be positive about it, and it's just when you throw
positivity at a negative.
(03:13):
It doesn't make the negative goaway.
The negative just has to bestored in a different way and
always comes up in a newcreative element in any of our
lives.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
In random ways, and the way that I usually describe
this is you know, we know thatthe tendency of the mind is
towards the negative, and thatis for security and safety
reasons, and so what usuallyhappens is because the mind has
a propensity for the negativityand the risk assessment.
When we start to get on thisjourney that we're on not when
(03:48):
we get on it when we wake up tothe fact that we want to get
curious the automatic thing thathappens is the pendulum swing
where we go from Mr or MrsNegative all the time over to
well, I just have to be positive, and if I just continue to
throw positivity at this, it'sgoing to change it, because we
are surrounded by a world thattalks about especially in the
(04:11):
new age stuff about speaking itinto truth, and while there is
truth in speaking it into truth,we can only speak it into truth
if we have worked through theother that we don't want to look
at.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, being around positive people, being positive,
changing your language,changing your wording, that's
all great, but, as you're saying, it does not help you
understand what you still don'tunderstand, which has caused any
of us to be in a negativemindset, in a depressive phase,
and whatever the language youwant to choose.
So this is where I think therecan be confusion out there of
(04:46):
how to get that balance, becausenaturally, of course, it's nice
to be around positive peoplewho have a really nice
perspective of the world andwant to see everyone happy and
smiling, and there's nothingwrong with that.
I think it is encouraged, butnot as a defensive mechanism
away from a sense of realitythat you as a person have lived
and still don't understand.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Very true.
I have lived it and I stilldon't understand it.
Didn't mean it directly towardsyou, that's okay, I heard it
directly, so I don't mind takingthat on.
And it's true Because I want youto think about it.
I know that when I firststarted getting curious about
(05:26):
why my life was the way it wasand trying to understand it, of
course I fell into that trap ofalways being positive, but it
just sent me down a differentspiral of failure or not good
enough or not worthy enough,because I couldn't maintain it.
And I had the naive outlookthat when I ran into people who
(05:48):
were optimistic or who werepositive, I held the belief that
they were that all the time,which is not possible for
anybody to be that positivityall the time, to be that
positivity all the time.
And so that is where it startsto become a problem, because
(06:10):
then we start judging ourinsides based on what we
perceive someone else's outsidesare, which is that positivity?
Or even if people are saying,oh, all you have to do is be
blah, blah, blah, and youhaven't been able to manage to
do that because the negativityis so weighing you down and you
(06:30):
don't understand it, then itjust adds another layer.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And what you just said the reality is, from any of
our experiences, is that whenwe find ourselves in tricky
positions, where we do findourselves leaning into that more
negative bias and we see peoplebeing so positive even though
we don't know at that stage,that's, we think that's the way
they are all the time, but, asyou said, they're absolutely not
.
We can all find differentexamples where we've all thrown
(06:57):
ourselves into differentextremes throughout life in
order to actually find the truthout.
What does actually mean for us?
What does this bring up in me?
And that is how we discover whowe are and how we operate in
this world.
At the end of the day, I thinkthat's when understanding of
what is, uh, our approach, thatis, has a healthy optimism about
life, versus, say, it's beingan overbearing approach in the
(07:22):
sense of like always look on thebright side, meaning we can
never allow ourselves to go towhere life is actually taking us
.
And I think that's where it canbe a bit.
We can be a bit delusional attimes what we're actually going
through, and that's what puts usinto autopilot modes and just
put a smile on your face andavoid and keep pushing.
And I think sometimes we're notalways quite aware of the
(07:42):
origins or the influences ofwhat has put us in that position
or why we do that to start with.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, and I know so many people that have tried that
, and you know it does tend tosilence some real concerns when
they haven't had anunderstanding of what, let's say
, someone who's been dealingwith depression had an
understanding of what, let's say, someone who's been dealing
with depression.
(08:09):
So if they're dealing withdepression and someone's telling
them always look on the brightside, or all you have to do is
speak positive words all thetime, well, that does not shift
depression at all, and so thatthen can lead to so many other
difficulties in that person'slife and just compound the
misunderstandings that they'vealready picked up and cause them
to go.
Oh well, I might as well justcompletely detach emotionally
(08:33):
because I can't get it rightanyway, which is very dangerous
for lots of people, because Ithink one of the most
responsible things we can dohere is point out that the brain
does have a negative bias andthat we are going to feel not
positive at some point in ourlife many multiple points of our
(08:55):
life and but it goes back tothat.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I think unrealistic understanding that people assume
that emotions are a choice.
You can just choose to be happyand as if someone's choosing to
be depressed, and this is wherethere is a lack of education or
understanding about what goes onwithin a person when anyone
finds themselves in thatposition or in those phases
within their lives, like it'snot a choice.
(09:21):
So I think when someone mayoverly simplifies it, as you're
saying, it can actually causemore damage than good, because I
think the way it's not tryingto force positivity into our
lives or forcing into otherpeople's lives, to me the
positive outlook is we can workthrough this, there is light at
the end of the tunnel, but weneed to do this in stages and in
sections to understand why themind-body emotions is actually
(09:43):
producing these emotions in thisway.
What's it trying to guide ustowards?
But us trying to smotherourselves in positivity, in
hopes that gives us a betterunderstanding?
I've yet to see that actuallycause results that have been
able to be sustained longer termto actually give us what we
want and and that is the keyword sustained.
(10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
To be able to sustain that long term.
Today I was in a shop and Iheard two people overheard two
people greet each other and itwas that sickly, sickly sweet,
positive.
Oh, it's so good to see thefalseness of it.
It was like fingernails on ascratch board to me, because I
(10:28):
listened to this banter back andforth for about 30 seconds and
I was like, just walk away, justwalk away, because it sounded
the tones of their voice wasthat really high-pitched, happy.
Oh look, everything iswonderful and great, and but it
just rang so false and so I wasjust like and what I love is my
(10:54):
very first teacher years ago I'mgoing to swear here, so please
apologize taught us to make sureyou have your bullshit monitor
on at all times.
And it couldn't have gottenlouder in that moment today.
And that is what falsepositivity does, and I think
almost every single personlistening to this podcast
(11:16):
tonight will be able to identifywith the story I just talked
about and recognize that it'salmost insulting when someone is
trying to throw that falsepositivity at you when you know
that it's that's not what you'repicking up.
So I think it's interesting,but I think it's part of the
(11:38):
culture that we've been broughtinto with social media and the
self-help culture and thespirituality culture that we're
in, that if we are not doingthat, then we are not really
working on ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So what's the saying?
A friend to all is a friend tonone.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yes, okay, I haven't heard that one, but I like it, I
like it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But again, I think it rings true at times because we
just find ourselves into thoseautopilot modes of we can't
actually display what we'rereally going through to the
outside world.
And especially if we bump intosomebody that we haven't seen in
a few years or catches us offguard, it's like suddenly you're
smiling, you're fixing yourhair, your coat, you're sucking
your stomach in, especially ifwe bump into somebody that we
(12:26):
haven't seen in a few years orcatches us off guard.
It's like suddenly you'resmiling, you're fixing your hair
, your coat, you're sucking yourstomach in, you're doing
everything to try to put yourbest foot forward to try to be
as positive about your life ashumanly possible.
And the funny thing is, asyou're saying, is that everyone
can recognize that high-pitchedtone of pretending to be content
to see one another, but bothinternally are screaming going.
(12:46):
How do I get out of thissituation?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
yes, that's exactly what I picked up today.
Oh my god, how did I run intothis person?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
yeah.
So we've all been there in ourown ways and I think we all
think of certain people orcertain circumstances in which
that has happened.
But that is a social norm.
Is that we can't?
Actually, if someone asks howare you doing, we're actually
not going to say no, I hate mypartner, the kids are at me
recently, the I'm actually in somuch debt right now I hate my
(13:16):
job.
Thanks for asking.
No, it's positively going, yeah, some options at work and we
might be moving house.
Not saying because we'rebankrupt didn't say which
direction, you know, is that wehave to try to spin it.
And reality is that we're doingthat more for ourselves,
(13:37):
because we don't even want tosay our own truth outwardly for
the other person to hear,because we don't even know how
to deal with what we're goingthrough, nevermind someone else
asking.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Or like, for example, for me you know, I had a
full-on five days and my brotheractually called me today and he
said how are you going, sis?
And I said well, I just gotback from five days of taking
care of McCall and Jess's kids.
And he goes oh, so you're ahappy grandma?
And I said yeah, that's notquite how I'd spin it.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm a grandma.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I'm definitely a grandmother and I've definitely
discovered that I want to be apart-time grandmother and I love
those children.
There is no doubt about it.
But it was just the intensityand what I think is what we can
(14:27):
say is we don't have to put thedoom and gloom on it, but the
reality of what the situationwas.
I was overwhelmed, it wasextremely tiring and, as much as
I love these little people, itwas a bit much after working
full-time all the time and Ithink people, people really
appreciate reality versus thefalse positivity and it allows
(14:48):
them to be able to be honestabout what's going on for them
and it kind of helps eliminatethat fear of not being positive
all the time or that fear of thenegativity that comes with it.
And I didn't paint it as alldoom and gloom I.
I just was like it was.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know this is what happened.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It was a bit much.
I'm still recovering.
Ask me next week and it'll beall happy, but this week it's
still too real.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You're still in recovery, yes, but I think
that's interesting, though,because when we talk about
negativity, a lot of us actuallyaren't expressing, because when
you and I are talking aboutfinding a balance, it's actually
about expressing positive andnegative experiences and
everything in between.
What we don't realize is thatwe're either often complaining,
(15:37):
which isn't necessarilyexpressing.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, about what we're actually going.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
What's what's going on for us or what's going on in
the situation.
Or else we're being extremelypositive, to the point of toxic
positivity and putting a massivespin on it, and that's not
expressing either.
Both are different ways ofactually avoiding the core of
what actually needs to beexpressed, that creates the
change that we would actuallywant or desire.
(16:02):
But, as we both know, a lot ofus actually are quite fearful of
change and what that represents.
So that's why we turn tocomplaining.
Or extreme positivity, becauseboth of those don't lead to
change, because, as human beings, we don't like change.
We don't know how to processchange, and change often
represents more things we haveto process or go through.
That's why there can be aresistance to doing it.
So that's why we find ourselvesgoing from either extreme
(16:25):
negativity, where we'respiraling, or extreme positivity
, where everything smells likeartificial roses Right, exactly.
And both stink for verydifferent reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yes, yes, and finding that middle ground, you know,
from that pendulum swinging, istrial and error, you know, and
it is about finding the honestyin yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Let's take a step back from this week's episode
and share with everyone whatwe've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(17:20):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we Like?
I can honestly sit here and telleveryone I truthfully love
(17:43):
every single aspect of thosekids.
It still overwhelmed me.
I still got tired.
That's the reality of it.
That doesn't mean I don't wantto spend more time with them.
It just simply means I'mrecognizing my limitations, and
the more honest I can be aboutwhat my limitations are, the
easier it is for us to interactin that situation.
(18:04):
But that is the part thateverybody shies away from,
because we don't want to hurtthe other person's feelings
about the reality of being, youknow, full on for that many days
.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, because you're saying it's the not wanting to
hurt the other person's feelings, but sometimes we don't want to
be honest to ourselves aboutwhat we're feeling also and then
to express that and thatbecomes a risk of maybe hurting
them.
So I just think we have so manylayers in which we are trained
to be dishonest with ourselvesand therefore, when that exists,
(18:38):
we're then pushed to eitherextreme to try to find a balance
which neither pendulum swing asyou mentioned there actually
achieves that.
It just continues to break usdown in new ways and continues
to compound over many years andso.
But that goes back to what wetalked about briefly earlier.
So that is a societal realitythat we've all been taught those
(19:01):
skill sets, those behaviors,those patterns, and so we've
only been.
We can only begin to changethat by going back into self.
But, like most things, if wefind ourselves going to either
extreme, it tends to be fearleading that charge more often
than not.
So maybe we should dive intothat of beginning to recognize
what is this fear that's eitherpushing us into toxic positivity
(19:24):
, to the point of where it'sunbearable even to ourselves
sometimes, or even the fear thatpushes us into the complaining
mode.
I think both are veryinteresting angles.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, I think also, they're all very multi-layered
on so many different levels aswell.
It depends on our upbringing.
On our upbringing, you know.
If we've been told that theseemotions that we call negative
emotions, which I don'tnecessarily like, I just go
emotions are emotions, they'reneither good nor bad, but we
have labeled them negative andwe have learned that they're bad
(19:57):
.
So therefore, if you have them,there must be something wrong
with you.
And then we internalize thatbelief, which then becomes shame
when we do have it.
And then we don't that belief,which then becomes shame when we
do have it.
And then we don't evenunderstand.
We meet someone and they'retelling you about a great
weekend they've had, and you gointo the shame.
And so then you therefore don'twant to talk about the reality
of your weekend because you'reafraid of the judgment.
(20:19):
You're afraid of not meetingthe status quo, not being able
to measure the same placesomebody else is, or the sadness
, or even own the sadness, thatyou are not having the type of
weekend that you want to have.
Does that make sense?
So there's so many differentlayers to this fear that we're
talking about.
There's the fear of even justsitting with the
(20:43):
uncomfortability of it being theway it was.
How many times do we have anidea of how we want something to
be?
I don't know of anybody thatgoes oh, I'm going to go away
for the weekend and paints it asa negative experience.
Always paint the most possiblebest case scenario and that if
(21:04):
it doesn't hit that scenario,then it was bad.
And then there's that fear ofbeing able to go.
Oh well, it didn't actuallymeet the expectations I had for
it.
So I think, recognizing allthese different levels and
layers of fear, around thediscomfort of emotions, the
labeling of them, what ourbeliefs are around positive and
(21:28):
negative, yeah.
Because I know you come up to meand you're super positive.
I'm like what?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You better watch yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
My radar just went on .
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So, for our listeners , what's the best way to?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
approach you if they see you just be real.
I think being real is theanswer, don't you think?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
yeah, yeah, without realizing it, we're often trying
to dodge what's really going oninside of us, and we'll use
either side of the spectrum inorder to do that, because we
don't know how to process ordeal with our own realities.
That's coming up present day,and I think when there's that
much miscommunication going oninternally and then you're also
being expected to play certainroles externally in the world,
(22:19):
you can see how that's quite astorm.
In order to how to find yourplace or how to understand who
you are, how to actually findpeace with himself.
It certainly becomes a verylayered process, as you're
saying, and we've all heard thedifferent sayings that come out
in life, and I think it dependson the person that's coming from
of whether it's actually saidwith good intention or it's
(22:41):
actually said just now.
Let's end this conversation.
So what I mean by that is it canbe, phrases, certain phrases,
like you know, just be happy,never a great one.
So meaning single your entirelife, just one emotion.
I can't see that flying longer,or it could be worse.
You love that one.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, love that one.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Or telling people or asking someone to don't dwell on
it Just don't think about it,kim or the one that I am caught,
and I'll admit that I say allthe time is that everything
happens for a reason.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So I'm going to argue this one because, you know, if
it comes with a caveat,everything happens for a reason
I don't think it's such a badone, the one that really gets me
more than that.
Just stop caring.
Just stop caring, kim, like youknow, why do you care so much?
Well, hello people, if I knewhow to stop caring, don't you
(23:41):
think I would have To me?
It seems so redundant.
I'm like what You're telling'retelling me.
Just why do you even care?
Well, because I'm human yeah, Ilike people.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Maybe I care for you, maybe I like you, maybe I want
the best for you.
I'm sorry and it's wellintended, but it's like so in
any of these phrases, obviouslydepending on which one we're
talking about, if you're usingit at the end of a conversation,
that means this conversation isover, or if you're using it at
(24:14):
the start of the conversation,it's actually opening up
exploration of what's actuallygoing on.
So it's all about the, as Isaid, the intention of the
person in which it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yes, yes, will actually guide where it's coming
from.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Will actually guide where it's going to take you in
actually exploring self orunderstanding what's going on
within any of us.
But I think what's also nottalked about that often is that
even when we're trying to findour feet and understanding what
the roles of positivity andnegativity play in our lives, is
that the emotional toll it endsup having on us when we do find
(24:46):
ourselves in that overlypositive state of mind in our
day-to-day lives or even withthe people around us?
So I actually found this that itmakes it very hard to build
authentic relationships whereeveryone can actually be
vulnerable with one another andactually discuss what they're
going through.
(25:06):
Because all of a sudden, ifyou're all about that positive
mindset, that positive emotions,is like there's no room for
guilt or shame or feeling sad orhaving a bad day suddenly
you're isolating so many humanqualities that we do need in
this life, because life is fullof a lot of hardships and that's
not all life is.
(25:27):
But when you are met with thatreality and suddenly you won't
allow yourself or the peoplearound you to express that
without having to correct them,how does that not begin to have
an emotional toll on you and thepeople around you in its own
way?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, it has to have that emotional toll because it's
just not possible and basicallythe minute that we're doing
that, we're telling someone thatthey're not okay as they are,
or what they're experiencing inthis moment, and so how can
anybody gain insight if, whenthey go to express it, it's met
(26:03):
with guilt or shame or isolatingtheir experience as different
or not?
okay, they're going to naturallyjust add another layer of that
guilt or shame or whatever it isthat they've been adding to.
So it's about then recognizingthat there is a time and a place
to have these type ofconversations around the
positivity or the negativity,like if someone had said to me
(26:26):
last night when I got home weused to be happy, we spent five
days with you, yeah, okay, great.
I'm sorry I didn't feel thatway.
I mean I did.
I did have so many moments ofgreat happiness, but I had a lot
of moments of exhaustion and Ihad a lot of moments of not
knowing exactly what the rightthing to do, and it's not like
(26:48):
you said.
Most of us will fall into thecomplaining or going to the
other extreme instead of just.
This was the reality of what itis yeah, this is what I'm
feeling now.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It doesn't mean I'll feel this way tomorrow, and I
think this is where we've allbeen around those people.
And again, they have stuffgoing on in their own lives.
So it's not a judgment, butit's.
You could see how someone mightsay to you was a lot of people
would wish to have grandkids,kim, why are you complaining?
A lot of people are robbed ofthat.
A lot of people don't even geta chance to see their grandkids.
(27:19):
They live in differentcountries and it goes back to
what you said about a, even theexamples you would have used.
And there's kids in africa thatwanted that food.
Kim, eat your food.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yes, but yes, I mean, people would say that to me,
and that is they unintentionallyshaming you for having feelings
.
And I think that is the partabout what we're saying about
the out of balance of positiveand negative, and instead of
having to label whatever we'refeeling as positive or negative,
(27:50):
can we just accept that they'reall emotions and that every
layer of emotion has somethingthat it can teach us if we're
paying attention to it?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
But I think it's kind of like how that level of
positivity can cause so muchblindness as well.
Because, even going back tothat other example or quote,
we've all heard that love isblind, and it can be similar if
we find ourselves practicingtoxic positivity or an
overwhelming amount ofpositivity.
It's as if the person can do nowrong.
(28:19):
So it's like we're actuallygaslighting reality for everyone
.
So if one of your grandkids didsomething or hit the other
child and it's like, oh, theydidn't mean to, they didn't mean
that they were just doing this,or they're just doing that, or
they're putting a positive spinon something actually very
negative that just happened, doyou get what I mean?
It's actually like you'restarting to gaslight.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
not just a person, but reality, the reality of the
situation and completelydiscounting the effect it had on
the other person as well.
And so you're basically sayingthe other person doesn't really
exist or doesn't really count.
Yeah, and one of the key thingsand one of the reasons it was
so overwhelming know, just sothat the listeners have some
(29:05):
background when mydaughter-in-law had her second
child, I came and stayed for aweek and I believe that their
oldest child started toassociate me with a parent
leaving.
So when I now show up at thehouse, his immediate reaction is
no, grandma, no.
(29:25):
Okay, that's not personal, butwhen you hear it for five days
straight, you start to feel it alittle bit personally.
And that is not saying I'm notgoing to gaslight myself and
saying that doesn't hurt.
Even though I intellectuallyunderstand why this child is
reacting the way he is reacting,okay, it's still there's going
to be those moments when I'mexhausted that that feeling
(29:47):
comes through and someone going,oh, but you know he doesn't
really mean it.
Well, on one level I do, butthere's another part of me that
goes well wait a minute, buthe's still saying it.
He's still saying it.
It's still hitting at that areawhere it really hurts.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I think that is where we then start to get the
richness of it, because itpoints to an area that there's
still wound in me.
I'm able to freely discuss thatand not place blame on him.
I do logically understand whyhe's doing it, but thank you, my
(30:24):
beautiful little guy, forshowing me where I still have
some wounds to look at.
Could have waited, could havewaited a little while, but
that's okay, I got the message.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
No matter what we're going through in life, there's
always going to be an emotionaltoll of some kind and I think
it's by putting ourselves in aposition where it's actually
worth the emotional toll.
So we all know that even whenwe're being honest about what
we're feeling, we're goingthrough knowing that we may not
feel the same way tomorrow inany of us expressing.
We know that that could have aneffect on someone else and just
having that honest conversationand that's why a lot of us
(30:57):
avoid in the past I've avoidedhonest conversations.
We don't want to triggerourselves, we don't have to deal
with our own emotions, whatthat brings up on us.
But either way, there's a costand you have to figure out which
one is actually worth bearingand to me is the one where we
push things down, costs way moreand needs to compound and
actually puts us into a lot ofmental and emotional debt over
(31:20):
many years, versus the other oneconsiderably helps us break
free from that debt.
We've been taught or been giventhat burden from previous
generations or from a societalsense.
So when we think it's thatthrowing positivity towards
these situations, that's justturning a blind eye to that
sense of reality and it's notreally solving anything and we
(31:43):
might actually buy into that fora period of time.
I do actually think there's aperiod of time where we do feel
the benefits of this immenselevel of positivity.
Why?
Because it's just a differentchange from all the negativity
we find ourselves living in, soit can be refreshing.
But is it sustainable?
as we talked about at the startof this episode, no it's not
Because we actually haven'tlearned anything, we haven't
(32:04):
necessarily processed anything,we haven't dealt with those
experiences, those realities oreven the stuff that's currently
going on in present day.
So of course, at some stage ithas to catch up with us, because
we can't run from ourselves orthe range of emotions in which
we're here to experience.
So that brings us on to, Iguess, the next section of the
(32:25):
episode of what's a healthierway we can begin to approach
positivity, so that we're notpushing it into extremity to try
to avoid the things we've neverbeen taught to deal with.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Well, I personally think one of the first steps is
to take the conditioning out ofthe emotions, which is, you know
, good emotions or bad emotions,positive emotions or negative
emotions.
They are just emotions.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And then being able to validate those emotions,
whatever they are.
So once we can validate that,oh, I'm feeling hurt.
Okay, yep, that's true, I amfeeling hurt.
I don't have to associate thathurt or push the blame on anyone
(33:09):
.
I'm just validating that'swhat's happening for me, rather
than trying to repress it likethe beach ball under the water,
hoping it's not going to pop outat the wrong time.
And then I guess there is thebalanced optimism and anyone
that knows me well enough, I'mconstantly going you know, okay,
(33:30):
so that was then and this isnow.
So, yes, it was very big dealthen and right now, how is it
for you now?
And that's when you can havethat balanced optimism.
The other thing I've learned,gareth, more than anything, is,
as I have had the ability toprocess and understand what
(33:51):
these emotions have come to showme, I have gained a sense of
wisdom for lack of a better wayof saying it wisdom and I'm able
to look at it completelydifferently because I can see
what it has taught me.
Now it doesn't change theeffect of what happened.
What happened happened, butI've gained a new perspective
(34:14):
once I've understood what thoseemotions meant at that time.
So those are just a couple ofthe things that I know, but also
one of the other huge beginningsteps is learning that active
listening, because so few peopleactually listen actively.
They listen to respond insteadof just being present and
(34:36):
listening and having empathy forwhat that other person is
experiencing in that moment.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I think that's what's interesting what you're saying.
I think that's what'sinteresting what you're saying.
It's only when you start tobecome more aware of everything
you mentioned that it can behard to validate someone else's
emotions when you don't have agreat relationship with your own
.
Because even if you want to,with the best intentions, it's
hard to be present at times ifthere's so much going on in your
own head, so much going on inyour own life.
(35:03):
And, as you said, a lot of thetime people are just waiting for
the person to stop talking sothey can talk about themselves.
But even when they're talkingabout themselves doesn't mean
that they're actually expressingbeing honest in conversation
about what's going on.
And that's why we can findourselves in a lot of these
trauma bonding friendships whereit's that we're bonding over
(35:24):
our lack of ability tocommunicate about what's really
going on in each other's lives,and we'll talk about the
positive times of our past everytime we meet over a drink or a
coffee or something like that,and many years can pass.
So is there anything wrong withthat?
Yes and no, you know, becauseit, but I'm saying when we find
(35:46):
ourselves wanting to start toopen up.
That's why it can actually betricky to expect more from these
relationships or friendshipsthat they're actually not maybe
capable of giving us as we'regoing through this transition,
even in our own lives.
So, as we often say in many ofthe episodes, that's where we do
need to turn to differentprofessionals, people who
actually can understand.
(36:07):
Hold that space for us,continue to educate our logical
mind, both consciously andsubconsciously, of all these
different skill sets that wejust didn't have the opportunity
in life as of yet to actuallydevelop.
That is the starting process ofactually shifting away from any
toxic positivity but it canalso argue from toxic negativity
, because the reality is that wewant to have a great
(36:30):
relationship, as you were saying, with all of our emotions and
our ability to communicate it,but to hold space for ourselves
primarily first, but then learnhow to actually also hold space
for other individuals in ourlives that are also maybe at
some stage going to be goingthrough that transitionary
period of wanting to be morehonest about what they're going
through.
And it is kind of an upsettingfact that life often takes us
(36:52):
life does take us to a breakingpoint before we're even able to
be that honest with ourselves.
Yes and yes, that was a heavysigh, I'm just you know,
relating yeah, but that is partof the journey, I want to say,
(37:13):
of graduating this life, becausewe find our all ourselves in
toxic negativity, toxicpositivity, trying to find the
different people that we cancommunicate to without life,
open up to the wrong people,open up to the right people, and
then we to the right people,and then we find the right
people.
They can get taken away from us.
It's like we all, but it alwaysgoes back to building that
relationship with self, knowingthat these things can even exist
(37:35):
to start with.
That is more often not thejourney of finding that balance
within ourselves, instead ofbeing reliant on any extreme
just to get through life.
And it's only when you take astep back you realize how much
of a rarity that actually is inhaving those skill sets from day
one.
I don't think any person does.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Very, very few people do, and so I know I can say
that I've been working on myselffor a very long time and I'm
still finding new skills, I'mstill finding new ways, I'm
still finding new layers, and Idon't say that with dread or
regret or any of that.
It just is what it is and willbe as long as I'm here.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, you're saying it more matter of fact, because
we're constantly evolving andchanging and life still
continues to bring experiencesto our front door that we may
not have asked for on a humanlevel, but it doesn't stop them
from arriving.
So we're constantly being, ifyou want to say I don't like
saying the word test, and Idon't believe life is a test.
Life's an experience to beunderstood and to be explored,
but life still is like how aboutthis?
(38:40):
Are you going to apply yourknowledge from that?
Are you going to?
You know, are you going to godown the slippery slope?
Are you going toapse?
Are you going to?
But life has always been thatway and will continue to be that
way, and I think it continuesto question are we going to go
to either extreme or are wegoing to use the skill sets or
the journey has taught us to doit in order to find that balance
(39:01):
and peace within ourselves?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And I think the other thing that we haven't actually
covered here yet that I want totalk about is, as we start to
build this emotional vocabularythat we're talking about, we
might find that we only have arelationship with negative
emotions, or we only have arelationship, or we've only ever
allowed ourselves to look atthose positive emotions or what
(39:24):
we've deemed as that.
And so sometimes I'll be workingwith people and they can't even
identify what it would be likeif they didn't have the negative
or what it would be like ifthey didn't have the positive,
because they have no vocabularyand no relationship with the
opposite, because it's been sounbalanced for so long.
(39:45):
So it's in understanding thatthe more we start to express and
explore these emotions, itreduces the discomfort around
being with those emotions.
That allows us to have a moreneutral effect when we're
working through those emotions.
So I think basically what we'retrying to say overall that we
(40:08):
both really love positivity, butwe also want to have an equal
relationship with the negativity, and that neither are more
important than the other.
And it's in finding thatbalance within ourselves and
within our emotions that wereally start to grow and blossom
from these states that we wereafraid of in the past, and the
(40:29):
more that we do that and themore that we're paying attention
to what we're doing in thoseemotions, whether we're
conversing with somebody else orwhether we're really delving
into the relationship withourself.
It's not about using thosedismissive verbiages that we've
picked up on social media toshame or blame ourselves, but
it's about being authentic andhaving that sense of kindness to
(40:54):
ourselves, to really hearwhat's happening for ourselves,
and the more that we do that,life does tend to feel more
balanced on so many differentlevels.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Couldn't have said it better, Missy different levels.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Couldn't have said it better.
I must say Thanks so much forlistening.
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(41:30):
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Thanks again, and I hope youguys are having a lovely week.
Welcome back to the Practical Spirituality Podcast.
We are so excited to have youon this journey with us, where
we explore all elements of mind,body, emotions and soul through
the lens of everyday life.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello Kim.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello Gareth.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
How are you doing this evening?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I am surviving.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You had a pretty crazy weekend.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I've had a pretty full-on five days.
Yes, I have, and for those ofyou who don't know, I was
helping take care of my twobeautiful grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Who are both under the age of three.
Three, yeah, it's quite ahandful.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How quickly we forget .
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Once again, another interesting episode for this
week.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
It is indeed going to be interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
But I do think we've all, especially when we've been
on this journey of exploringourselves I think especially
when new age started to become ahuge deal and more accessible
and, of course, the differentelements of psychology and
self-help.
There's always been such a hype, even still to this day, around
positivity and for thelong-term listeners of this
(01:23):
podcast, they know we've hadsome interesting comments in the
past surrounding positivity andthe role that it of course,
plays in the journey ofunderstanding self.
But then sometimes how peoplecan, unintentionally maybe, lean
too much into it to the pointof where it actually causes an
imbalance in our lives which cancome at a surprise or a shock
(01:45):
to us, because we think how canyou ever be imbalanced when it
comes to being such a positiveperson?
Right, but what we don'trealize is how that level of
positivity isn't necessarilyorganic.
It can be forced, it's more ofa mindset and it's actually
burying a lot of other thingsthat maybe we weren't quite
aware of.
That's exactly what we weredoing.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yes, I agree, but not always.
We're not saying it always is,but it has a tendency to bury a
lot of things when peoplehaven't had the ability or the
curiosity or the support toexplore some of the things that
they don't want to be looking atin their lives.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yes, yes, and I think it's where people can deem it
as toxic positivity at times.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I know that's quite an extreme version of events,
because I do think that ofcourse it plays an important
role in our lives and it'simportant to have, I do think, a
positive outlook on life andunderstanding that there is a
reason behind why certain thingshappen, and to want to see the
good in people and the good inthe world.
But that, but if we don't havea good, solid relationship or
(02:53):
foundation with our negativeemotions or the experiences
we've gone through and we'rejust forcing ourselves or
forcing others to talk onlypositive and that they're not
allowed to be communicative orexpressive about what's going on
with their lives, without no no, you just need to change your
mindset and be positive about it, and it's just when you throw
positivity at a negative.
(03:13):
It doesn't make the negative goaway.
The negative just has to bestored in a different way and
always comes up in a newcreative element in any of our
lives.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
In random ways, and the way that I usually describe
this is you know, we know thatthe tendency of the mind is
towards the negative, and thatis for security and safety
reasons, and so what usuallyhappens is because the mind has
a propensity for the negativityand the risk assessment.
When we start to get on thisjourney that we're on not when
(03:48):
we get on it when we wake up tothe fact that we want to get
curious the automatic thing thathappens is the pendulum swing
where we go from Mr or MrsNegative all the time over to
well, I just have to be positive, and if I just continue to
throw positivity at this, it'sgoing to change it, because we
are surrounded by a world thattalks about especially in the
(04:11):
new age stuff about speaking itinto truth, and while there is
truth in speaking it into truth,we can only speak it into truth
if we have worked through theother that we don't want to look
at.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, being around positive people, being positive,
changing your language,changing your wording, that's
all great, but, as you're saying, it does not help you
understand what you still don'tunderstand, which has caused any
of us to be in a negativemindset, in a depressive phase,
and whatever the language youwant to choose.
So this is where I think therecan be confusion out there of
(04:46):
how to get that balance, becausenaturally, of course, it's nice
to be around positive peoplewho have a really nice
perspective of the world andwant to see everyone happy and
smiling, and there's nothingwrong with that.
I think it is encouraged, butnot as a defensive mechanism
away from a sense of realitythat you as a person have lived
and still don't understand.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Very true.
I have lived it and I stilldon't understand it.
Didn't mean it directly towardsyou, that's okay, I heard it
directly, so I don't mind takingthat on.
And it's true Because I want youto think about it.
I know that when I firststarted getting curious about
(05:26):
why my life was the way it wasand trying to understand it, of
course I fell into that trap ofalways being positive, but it
just sent me down a differentspiral of failure or not good
enough or not worthy enough,because I couldn't maintain it.
And I had the naive outlookthat when I ran into people who
(05:48):
were optimistic or who werepositive, I held the belief that
they were that all the time,which is not possible for
anybody to be that positivityall the time, to be that
positivity all the time.
And so that is where it startsto become a problem, because
(06:10):
then we start judging ourinsides based on what we
perceive someone else's outsidesare, which is that positivity?
Or even if people are saying,oh, all you have to do is be
blah, blah, blah, and youhaven't been able to manage to
do that because the negativityis so weighing you down and you
(06:30):
don't understand it, then itjust adds another layer.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And what you just said the reality is, from any of
our experiences, is that whenwe find ourselves in tricky
positions, where we do findourselves leaning into that more
negative bias and we see peoplebeing so positive even though
we don't know at that stage,that's, we think that's the way
they are all the time, but, asyou said, they're absolutely not
.
We can all find differentexamples where we've all thrown
(06:57):
ourselves into differentextremes throughout life in
order to actually find the truthout.
What does actually mean for us?
What does this bring up in me?
And that is how we discover whowe are and how we operate in
this world.
At the end of the day, I thinkthat's when understanding of
what is, uh, our approach, thatis, has a healthy optimism about
life, versus, say, it's beingan overbearing approach in the
(07:22):
sense of like always look on thebright side, meaning we can
never allow ourselves to go towhere life is actually taking us
.
And I think that's where it canbe a bit.
We can be a bit delusional attimes what we're actually going
through, and that's what puts usinto autopilot modes and just
put a smile on your face andavoid and keep pushing.
And I think sometimes we're notalways quite aware of the
(07:42):
origins or the influences ofwhat has put us in that position
or why we do that to start with.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well, and I know so many people that have tried that
, and you know it does tend tosilence some real concerns when
they haven't had anunderstanding of what, let's say
, someone who's been dealingwith depression had an
understanding of what, let's say, someone who's been dealing
with depression.
(08:09):
So if they're dealing withdepression and someone's telling
them always look on the brightside, or all you have to do is
speak positive words all thetime, well, that does not shift
depression at all, and so thatthen can lead to so many other
difficulties in that person'slife and just compound the
misunderstandings that they'vealready picked up and cause them
to go.
Oh well, I might as well justcompletely detach emotionally
(08:33):
because I can't get it rightanyway, which is very dangerous
for lots of people, because Ithink one of the most
responsible things we can dohere is point out that the brain
does have a negative bias andthat we are going to feel not
positive at some point in ourlife many multiple points of our
(08:55):
life and but it goes back tothat.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I think unrealistic understanding that people assume
that emotions are a choice.
You can just choose to be happyand as if someone's choosing to
be depressed, and this is wherethere is a lack of education or
understanding about what goes onwithin a person when anyone
finds themselves in thatposition or in those phases
within their lives, like it'snot a choice.
(09:21):
So I think when someone mayoverly simplifies it, as you're
saying, it can actually causemore damage than good, because I
think the way it's not tryingto force positivity into our
lives or forcing into otherpeople's lives, to me the
positive outlook is we can workthrough this, there is light at
the end of the tunnel, but weneed to do this in stages and in
sections to understand why themind-body emotions is actually
(09:43):
producing these emotions in thisway.
What's it trying to guide ustowards?
But us trying to smotherourselves in positivity, in
hopes that gives us a betterunderstanding?
I've yet to see that actuallycause results that have been
able to be sustained longer termto actually give us what we
want and and that is the keyword sustained.
(10:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
To be able to sustain that long term.
Today I was in a shop and Iheard two people overheard two
people greet each other and itwas that sickly, sickly sweet,
positive.
Oh, it's so good to see thefalseness of it.
It was like fingernails on ascratch board to me, because I
(10:28):
listened to this banter back andforth for about 30 seconds and
I was like, just walk away, justwalk away, because it sounded
the tones of their voice wasthat really high-pitched, happy.
Oh look, everything iswonderful and great, and but it
just rang so false and so I wasjust like and what I love is my
(10:54):
very first teacher years ago I'mgoing to swear here, so please
apologize taught us to make sureyou have your bullshit monitor
on at all times.
And it couldn't have gottenlouder in that moment today.
And that is what falsepositivity does, and I think
almost every single personlistening to this podcast
(11:16):
tonight will be able to identifywith the story I just talked
about and recognize that it'salmost insulting when someone is
trying to throw that falsepositivity at you when you know
that it's that's not what you'repicking up.
So I think it's interesting,but I think it's part of the
(11:38):
culture that we've been broughtinto with social media and the
self-help culture and thespirituality culture that we're
in, that if we are not doingthat, then we are not really
working on ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So what's the saying?
A friend to all is a friend tonone.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yes, okay, I haven't heard that one, but I like it, I
like it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But again, I think it rings true at times because we
just find ourselves into thoseautopilot modes of we can't
actually display what we'rereally going through to the
outside world.
And especially if we bump intosomebody that we haven't seen in
a few years or catches us offguard, it's like suddenly you're
smiling, you're fixing yourhair, your coat, you're sucking
your stomach in, especially ifwe bump into somebody that we
(12:26):
haven't seen in a few years orcatches us off guard.
It's like suddenly you'resmiling, you're fixing your hair
, your coat, you're sucking yourstomach in, you're doing
everything to try to put yourbest foot forward to try to be
as positive about your life ashumanly possible.
And the funny thing is, asyou're saying, is that everyone
can recognize that high-pitchedtone of pretending to be content
to see one another, but bothinternally are screaming going.
(12:46):
How do I get out of thissituation?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
yes, that's exactly what I picked up today.
Oh my god, how did I run intothis person?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
yeah.
So we've all been there in ourown ways and I think we all
think of certain people orcertain circumstances in which
that has happened.
But that is a social norm.
Is that we can't?
Actually, if someone asks howare you doing, we're actually
not going to say no, I hate mypartner, the kids are at me
recently, the I'm actually in somuch debt right now I hate my
(13:16):
job.
Thanks for asking.
No, it's positively going, yeah, some options at work and we
might be moving house.
Not saying because we'rebankrupt didn't say which
direction, you know, is that wehave to try to spin it.
And reality is that we're doingthat more for ourselves,
(13:37):
because we don't even want tosay our own truth outwardly for
the other person to hear,because we don't even know how
to deal with what we're goingthrough, nevermind someone else
asking.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Or like, for example, for me you know, I had a
full-on five days and my brotheractually called me today and he
said how are you going, sis?
And I said well, I just gotback from five days of taking
care of McCall and Jess's kids.
And he goes oh, so you're ahappy grandma?
And I said yeah, that's notquite how I'd spin it.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm a grandma.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I'm definitely a grandmother and I've definitely
discovered that I want to be apart-time grandmother and I love
those children.
There is no doubt about it.
But it was just the intensityand what I think is what we can
(14:27):
say is we don't have to put thedoom and gloom on it, but the
reality of what the situationwas.
I was overwhelmed, it wasextremely tiring and, as much as
I love these little people, itwas a bit much after working
full-time all the time and Ithink people, people really
appreciate reality versus thefalse positivity and it allows
(14:48):
them to be able to be honestabout what's going on for them
and it kind of helps eliminatethat fear of not being positive
all the time or that fear of thenegativity that comes with it.
And I didn't paint it as alldoom and gloom I.
I just was like it was.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know this is what happened.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It was a bit much.
I'm still recovering.
Ask me next week and it'll beall happy, but this week it's
still too real.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You're still in recovery, yes, but I think
that's interesting, though,because when we talk about
negativity, a lot of us actuallyaren't expressing, because when
you and I are talking aboutfinding a balance, it's actually
about expressing positive andnegative experiences and
everything in between.
What we don't realize is thatwe're either often complaining,
(15:37):
which isn't necessarilyexpressing.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, about what we're actually going.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
What's what's going on for us or what's going on in
the situation.
Or else we're being extremelypositive, to the point of toxic
positivity and putting a massivespin on it, and that's not
expressing either.
Both are different ways ofactually avoiding the core of
what actually needs to beexpressed, that creates the
change that we would actuallywant or desire.
(16:02):
But, as we both know, a lot ofus actually are quite fearful of
change and what that represents.
So that's why we turn tocomplaining.
Or extreme positivity, becauseboth of those don't lead to
change, because, as human beings, we don't like change.
We don't know how to processchange, and change often
represents more things we haveto process or go through.
That's why there can be aresistance to doing it.
So that's why we find ourselvesgoing from either extreme
(16:25):
negativity, where we'respiraling, or extreme positivity
, where everything smells likeartificial roses Right, exactly.
And both stink for verydifferent reasons.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yes, yes, and finding that middle ground, you know,
from that pendulum swinging, istrial and error, you know, and
it is about finding the honestyin yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Let's take a step back from this week's episode
and share with everyone whatwe've been up to behind the
scenes.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
We're really excited to be able to finally offer the
Gareth Michael community to eachof you.
The community offers a range ofbenefits, including access to
our live events, weekly podcastepisodes, articles,
self-checking questions, as wellas a community of individuals
you can connect with andinteract with along the way.
It's designed to offer yousupport, guidance and a safe
(17:20):
space on a day-to-day basis.
We'd love to have you join ourglobal community of like-minded
individuals.
That website address, again, iswwwgarethmichaelcom.
Now let's get back to thatepisode, shall we Like?
I can honestly sit here and telleveryone I truthfully love
(17:43):
every single aspect of thosekids.
It still overwhelmed me.
I still got tired.
That's the reality of it.
That doesn't mean I don't wantto spend more time with them.
It just simply means I'mrecognizing my limitations, and
the more honest I can be aboutwhat my limitations are, the
easier it is for us to interactin that situation.
(18:04):
But that is the part thateverybody shies away from,
because we don't want to hurtthe other person's feelings
about the reality of being, youknow, full on for that many days
.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, because you're saying it's the not wanting to
hurt the other person's feelings, but sometimes we don't want to
be honest to ourselves aboutwhat we're feeling also and then
to express that and thatbecomes a risk of maybe hurting
them.
So I just think we have so manylayers in which we are trained
to be dishonest with ourselvesand therefore, when that exists,
(18:38):
we're then pushed to eitherextreme to try to find a balance
which neither pendulum swing asyou mentioned there actually
achieves that.
It just continues to break usdown in new ways and continues
to compound over many years andso.
But that goes back to what wetalked about briefly earlier.
So that is a societal realitythat we've all been taught those
(19:01):
skill sets, those behaviors,those patterns, and so we've
only been.
We can only begin to changethat by going back into self.
But, like most things, if wefind ourselves going to either
extreme, it tends to be fearleading that charge more often
than not.
So maybe we should dive intothat of beginning to recognize
what is this fear that's eitherpushing us into toxic positivity
(19:24):
, to the point of where it'sunbearable even to ourselves
sometimes, or even the fear thatpushes us into the complaining
mode.
I think both are veryinteresting angles.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well, I think also, they're all very multi-layered
on so many different levels aswell.
It depends on our upbringing.
On our upbringing, you know.
If we've been told that theseemotions that we call negative
emotions, which I don'tnecessarily like, I just go
emotions are emotions, they'reneither good nor bad, but we
have labeled them negative andwe have learned that they're bad
(19:57):
.
So therefore, if you have them,there must be something wrong
with you.
And then we internalize thatbelief, which then becomes shame
when we do have it.
And then we don't that belief,which then becomes shame when we
do have it.
And then we don't evenunderstand.
We meet someone and they'retelling you about a great
weekend they've had, and you gointo the shame.
And so then you therefore don'twant to talk about the reality
of your weekend because you'reafraid of the judgment.
(20:19):
You're afraid of not meetingthe status quo, not being able
to measure the same placesomebody else is, or the sadness
, or even own the sadness, thatyou are not having the type of
weekend that you want to have.
Does that make sense?
So there's so many differentlayers to this fear that we're
talking about.
There's the fear of even justsitting with the
(20:43):
uncomfortability of it being theway it was.
How many times do we have anidea of how we want something to
be?
I don't know of anybody thatgoes oh, I'm going to go away
for the weekend and paints it asa negative experience.
Always paint the most possiblebest case scenario and that if
(21:04):
it doesn't hit that scenario,then it was bad.
And then there's that fear ofbeing able to go.
Oh well, it didn't actuallymeet the expectations I had for
it.
So I think, recognizing allthese different levels and
layers of fear, around thediscomfort of emotions, the
labeling of them, what ourbeliefs are around positive and
(21:28):
negative, yeah.
Because I know you come up to meand you're super positive.
I'm like what?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You better watch yourself.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
My radar just went on .
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So, for our listeners , what's the best way to?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
approach you if they see you just be real.
I think being real is theanswer, don't you think?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
yeah, yeah, without realizing it, we're often trying
to dodge what's really going oninside of us, and we'll use
either side of the spectrum inorder to do that, because we
don't know how to process ordeal with our own realities.
That's coming up present day,and I think when there's that
much miscommunication going oninternally and then you're also
being expected to play certainroles externally in the world,
(22:19):
you can see how that's quite astorm.
In order to how to find yourplace or how to understand who
you are, how to actually findpeace with himself.
It certainly becomes a verylayered process, as you're
saying, and we've all heard thedifferent sayings that come out
in life, and I think it dependson the person that's coming from
of whether it's actually saidwith good intention or it's
(22:41):
actually said just now.
Let's end this conversation.
So what I mean by that is it canbe, phrases, certain phrases,
like you know, just be happy,never a great one.
So meaning single your entirelife, just one emotion.
I can't see that flying longer,or it could be worse.
You love that one.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, love that one.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Or telling people or asking someone to don't dwell on
it Just don't think about it,kim or the one that I am caught,
and I'll admit that I say allthe time is that everything
happens for a reason.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So I'm going to argue this one because, you know, if
it comes with a caveat,everything happens for a reason
I don't think it's such a badone, the one that really gets me
more than that.
Just stop caring.
Just stop caring, kim, like youknow, why do you care so much?
Well, hello people, if I knewhow to stop caring, don't you
(23:41):
think I would have To me?
It seems so redundant.
I'm like what You're telling'retelling me.
Just why do you even care?
Well, because I'm human yeah, Ilike people.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Maybe I care for you, maybe I like you, maybe I want
the best for you.
I'm sorry and it's wellintended, but it's like so in
any of these phrases, obviouslydepending on which one we're
talking about, if you're usingit at the end of a conversation,
that means this conversation isover, or if you're using it at
(24:14):
the start of the conversation,it's actually opening up
exploration of what's actuallygoing on.
So it's all about the, as Isaid, the intention of the
person in which it's coming from.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yes, yes, will actually guide where it's coming
from.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Will actually guide where it's going to take you in
actually exploring self orunderstanding what's going on
within any of us.
But I think what's also nottalked about that often is that
even when we're trying to findour feet and understanding what
the roles of positivity andnegativity play in our lives, is
that the emotional toll it endsup having on us when we do find
(24:46):
ourselves in that overlypositive state of mind in our
day-to-day lives or even withthe people around us?
So I actually found this that itmakes it very hard to build
authentic relationships whereeveryone can actually be
vulnerable with one another andactually discuss what they're
going through.
(25:06):
Because all of a sudden, ifyou're all about that positive
mindset, that positive emotions,is like there's no room for
guilt or shame or feeling sad orhaving a bad day suddenly
you're isolating so many humanqualities that we do need in
this life, because life is fullof a lot of hardships and that's
not all life is.
(25:27):
But when you are met with thatreality and suddenly you won't
allow yourself or the peoplearound you to express that
without having to correct them,how does that not begin to have
an emotional toll on you and thepeople around you in its own
way?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, it has to have that emotional toll because it's
just not possible and basicallythe minute that we're doing
that, we're telling someone thatthey're not okay as they are,
or what they're experiencing inthis moment, and so how can
anybody gain insight if, whenthey go to express it, it's met
(26:03):
with guilt or shame or isolatingtheir experience as different
or not?
okay, they're going to naturallyjust add another layer of that
guilt or shame or whatever it isthat they've been adding to.
So it's about then recognizingthat there is a time and a place
to have these type ofconversations around the
positivity or the negativity,like if someone had said to me
(26:26):
last night when I got home weused to be happy, we spent five
days with you, yeah, okay, great.
I'm sorry I didn't feel thatway.
I mean I did.
I did have so many moments ofgreat happiness, but I had a lot
of moments of exhaustion and Ihad a lot of moments of not
knowing exactly what the rightthing to do, and it's not like
(26:48):
you said.
Most of us will fall into thecomplaining or going to the
other extreme instead of just.
This was the reality of what itis yeah, this is what I'm
feeling now.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It doesn't mean I'll feel this way tomorrow, and I
think this is where we've allbeen around those people.
And again, they have stuffgoing on in their own lives.
So it's not a judgment, butit's.
You could see how someone mightsay to you was a lot of people
would wish to have grandkids,kim, why are you complaining?
A lot of people are robbed ofthat.
A lot of people don't even geta chance to see their grandkids.
(27:19):
They live in differentcountries and it goes back to
what you said about a, even theexamples you would have used.
And there's kids in africa thatwanted that food.
Kim, eat your food.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yes, but yes, I mean, people would say that to me,
and that is they unintentionallyshaming you for having feelings
.
And I think that is the partabout what we're saying about
the out of balance of positiveand negative, and instead of
having to label whatever we'refeeling as positive or negative,
(27:50):
can we just accept that they'reall emotions and that every
layer of emotion has somethingthat it can teach us if we're
paying attention to it?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
But I think it's kind of like how that level of
positivity can cause so muchblindness as well.
Because, even going back tothat other example or quote,
we've all heard that love isblind, and it can be similar if
we find ourselves practicingtoxic positivity or an
overwhelming amount ofpositivity.
It's as if the person can do nowrong.
(28:19):
So it's like we're actuallygaslighting reality for everyone
.
So if one of your grandkids didsomething or hit the other
child and it's like, oh, theydidn't mean to, they didn't mean
that they were just doing this,or they're just doing that, or
they're putting a positive spinon something actually very
negative that just happened, doyou get what I mean?
It's actually like you'restarting to gaslight.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
not just a person, but reality, the reality of the
situation and completelydiscounting the effect it had on
the other person as well.
And so you're basically sayingthe other person doesn't really
exist or doesn't really count.
Yeah, and one of the key thingsand one of the reasons it was
so overwhelming know, just sothat the listeners have some
(29:05):
background when mydaughter-in-law had her second
child, I came and stayed for aweek and I believe that their
oldest child started toassociate me with a parent
leaving.
So when I now show up at thehouse, his immediate reaction is
no, grandma, no.
(29:25):
Okay, that's not personal, butwhen you hear it for five days
straight, you start to feel it alittle bit personally.
And that is not saying I'm notgoing to gaslight myself and
saying that doesn't hurt.
Even though I intellectuallyunderstand why this child is
reacting the way he is reacting,okay, it's still there's going
to be those moments when I'mexhausted that that feeling
(29:47):
comes through and someone going,oh, but you know he doesn't
really mean it.
Well, on one level I do, butthere's another part of me that
goes well wait a minute, buthe's still saying it.
He's still saying it.
It's still hitting at that areawhere it really hurts.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I think that is where we then start to get the
richness of it, because itpoints to an area that there's
still wound in me.
I'm able to freely discuss thatand not place blame on him.
I do logically understand whyhe's doing it, but thank you, my
(30:24):
beautiful little guy, forshowing me where I still have
some wounds to look at.
Could have waited, could havewaited a little while, but
that's okay, I got the message.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
No matter what we're going through in life, there's
always going to be an emotionaltoll of some kind and I think
it's by putting ourselves in aposition where it's actually
worth the emotional toll.
So we all know that even whenwe're being honest about what
we're feeling, we're goingthrough knowing that we may not
feel the same way tomorrow inany of us expressing.
We know that that could have aneffect on someone else and just
having that honest conversationand that's why a lot of us
(30:57):
avoid in the past I've avoidedhonest conversations.
We don't want to triggerourselves, we don't have to deal
with our own emotions, whatthat brings up on us.
But either way, there's a costand you have to figure out which
one is actually worth bearingand to me is the one where we
push things down, costs way moreand needs to compound and
actually puts us into a lot ofmental and emotional debt over
(31:20):
many years, versus the other oneconsiderably helps us break
free from that debt.
We've been taught or been giventhat burden from previous
generations or from a societalsense.
So when we think it's thatthrowing positivity towards
these situations, that's justturning a blind eye to that
sense of reality and it's notreally solving anything and we
(31:43):
might actually buy into that fora period of time.
I do actually think there's aperiod of time where we do feel
the benefits of this immenselevel of positivity.
Why?
Because it's just a differentchange from all the negativity
we find ourselves living in, soit can be refreshing.
But is it sustainable?
as we talked about at the startof this episode, no it's not
Because we actually haven'tlearned anything, we haven't
(32:04):
necessarily processed anything,we haven't dealt with those
experiences, those realities oreven the stuff that's currently
going on in present day.
So of course, at some stage ithas to catch up with us, because
we can't run from ourselves orthe range of emotions in which
we're here to experience.
So that brings us on to, Iguess, the next section of the
(32:25):
episode of what's a healthierway we can begin to approach
positivity, so that we're notpushing it into extremity to try
to avoid the things we've neverbeen taught to deal with.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Well, I personally think one of the first steps is
to take the conditioning out ofthe emotions, which is, you know
, good emotions or bad emotions,positive emotions or negative
emotions.
They are just emotions.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And then being able to validate those emotions,
whatever they are.
So once we can validate that,oh, I'm feeling hurt.
Okay, yep, that's true, I amfeeling hurt.
I don't have to associate thathurt or push the blame on anyone
(33:09):
.
I'm just validating that'swhat's happening for me, rather
than trying to repress it likethe beach ball under the water,
hoping it's not going to pop outat the wrong time.
And then I guess there is thebalanced optimism and anyone
that knows me well enough, I'mconstantly going you know, okay,
(33:30):
so that was then and this isnow.
So, yes, it was very big dealthen and right now, how is it
for you now?
And that's when you can havethat balanced optimism.
The other thing I've learned,gareth, more than anything, is,
as I have had the ability toprocess and understand what
(33:51):
these emotions have come to showme, I have gained a sense of
wisdom for lack of a better wayof saying it wisdom and I'm able
to look at it completelydifferently because I can see
what it has taught me.
Now it doesn't change theeffect of what happened.
What happened happened, butI've gained a new perspective
(34:14):
once I've understood what thoseemotions meant at that time.
So those are just a couple ofthe things that I know, but also
one of the other huge beginningsteps is learning that active
listening, because so few peopleactually listen actively.
They listen to respond insteadof just being present and
(34:36):
listening and having empathy forwhat that other person is
experiencing in that moment.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I think that's what's interesting what you're saying.
I think that's what'sinteresting what you're saying.
It's only when you start tobecome more aware of everything
you mentioned that it can behard to validate someone else's
emotions when you don't have agreat relationship with your own
.
Because even if you want to,with the best intentions, it's
hard to be present at times ifthere's so much going on in your
own head, so much going on inyour own life.
(35:03):
And, as you said, a lot of thetime people are just waiting for
the person to stop talking sothey can talk about themselves.
But even when they're talkingabout themselves doesn't mean
that they're actually expressingbeing honest in conversation
about what's going on.
And that's why we can findourselves in a lot of these
trauma bonding friendships whereit's that we're bonding over
(35:24):
our lack of ability tocommunicate about what's really
going on in each other's lives,and we'll talk about the
positive times of our past everytime we meet over a drink or a
coffee or something like that,and many years can pass.
So is there anything wrong withthat?
Yes and no, you know, becauseit, but I'm saying when we find
(35:46):
ourselves wanting to start toopen up.
That's why it can actually betricky to expect more from these
relationships or friendshipsthat they're actually not maybe
capable of giving us as we'regoing through this transition,
even in our own lives.
So, as we often say in many ofthe episodes, that's where we do
need to turn to differentprofessionals, people who
actually can understand.
(36:07):
Hold that space for us,continue to educate our logical
mind, both consciously andsubconsciously, of all these
different skill sets that wejust didn't have the opportunity
in life as of yet to actuallydevelop.
That is the starting process ofactually shifting away from any
toxic positivity but it canalso argue from toxic negativity
, because the reality is that wewant to have a great
(36:30):
relationship, as you were saying, with all of our emotions and
our ability to communicate it,but to hold space for ourselves
primarily first, but then learnhow to actually also hold space
for other individuals in ourlives that are also maybe at
some stage going to be goingthrough that transitionary
period of wanting to be morehonest about what they're going
through.
And it is kind of an upsettingfact that life often takes us
(36:52):
life does take us to a breakingpoint before we're even able to
be that honest with ourselves.
Yes and yes, that was a heavysigh, I'm just you know,
relating yeah, but that is partof the journey, I want to say,
(37:13):
of graduating this life, becausewe find our all ourselves in
toxic negativity, toxicpositivity, trying to find the
different people that we cancommunicate to without life,
open up to the wrong people,open up to the right people, and
then we to the right people,and then we find the right
people.
They can get taken away from us.
It's like we all, but it alwaysgoes back to building that
relationship with self, knowingthat these things can even exist
(37:35):
to start with.
That is more often not thejourney of finding that balance
within ourselves, instead ofbeing reliant on any extreme
just to get through life.
And it's only when you take astep back you realize how much
of a rarity that actually is inhaving those skill sets from day
one.
I don't think any person does.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Very, very few people do, and so I know I can say
that I've been working on myselffor a very long time and I'm
still finding new skills, I'mstill finding new ways, I'm
still finding new layers, and Idon't say that with dread or
regret or any of that.
It just is what it is and willbe as long as I'm here.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, you're saying it more matter of fact, because
we're constantly evolving andchanging and life still
continues to bring experiencesto our front door that we may
not have asked for on a humanlevel, but it doesn't stop them
from arriving.
So we're constantly being, ifyou want to say I don't like
saying the word test, and Idon't believe life is a test.
Life's an experience to beunderstood and to be explored,
but life still is like how aboutthis?
(38:40):
Are you going to apply yourknowledge from that?
Are you going to?
You know, are you going to godown the slippery slope?
Are you going toapse?
Are you going to?
But life has always been thatway and will continue to be that
way, and I think it continuesto question are we going to go
to either extreme or are wegoing to use the skill sets or
the journey has taught us to doit in order to find that balance
(39:01):
and peace within ourselves?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And I think the other thing that we haven't actually
covered here yet that I want totalk about is, as we start to
build this emotional vocabularythat we're talking about, we
might find that we only have arelationship with negative
emotions, or we only have arelationship, or we've only ever
allowed ourselves to look atthose positive emotions or what
(39:24):
we've deemed as that.
And so sometimes I'll be workingwith people and they can't even
identify what it would be likeif they didn't have the negative
or what it would be like ifthey didn't have the positive,
because they have no vocabularyand no relationship with the
opposite, because it's been sounbalanced for so long.
(39:45):
So it's in understanding thatthe more we start to express and
explore these emotions, itreduces the discomfort around
being with those emotions.
That allows us to have a moreneutral effect when we're
working through those emotions.
So I think basically what we'retrying to say overall that we
(40:08):
both really love positivity, butwe also want to have an equal
relationship with the negativity, and that neither are more
important than the other.
And it's in finding thatbalance within ourselves and
within our emotions that wereally start to grow and blossom
from these states that we wereafraid of in the past, and the
(40:29):
more that we do that and themore that we're paying attention
to what we're doing in thoseemotions, whether we're
conversing with somebody else orwhether we're really delving
into the relationship withourself.
It's not about using thosedismissive verbiages that we've
picked up on social media toshame or blame ourselves, but
it's about being authentic andhaving that sense of kindness to
(40:54):
ourselves, to really hearwhat's happening for ourselves,
and the more that we do that,life does tend to feel more
balanced on so many differentlevels.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Couldn't have said it better, Missy different levels.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Couldn't have said it better.
I must say Thanks so much forlistening.
If you enjoyed this episode,then you might want to check out
our online community.
We built it to offer you thecomfort of having a supportive
community by your side, nomatter where life takes you.
Connect with like-mindedindividuals through our app.
Navigate each step of thejourney together with us by
(41:30):
joining our Gareth Michaelcommunity.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.