Conversations About Sex (Part One): Sharing Sexual Histories with Keeley Rankin, MA

Sex and relationship coach Keeley Rankin joins me for the first of two conversations about sex. In Part One, we discuss how you  can deepen your relationship by sharing your sexual history. Before diving into the topic, we discuss what sex is and why it's important. (If you think you know what sex is, listen to Keeley explain an activity she has couples do to expand their definition.)

Keeley and I discuss how your sexual history is more than your "number" or STI's. She defines it as how you first learned about sex, the messages about sexuality and gender you internalized, and what you observed in your parents/guardians in terms of affection and relaxation. Keeley explains how some people observed too much in their childhood and describes how seeing and/or hearing your parents engage in sex may have been traumatic.

The next part of histories we discuss is past sexual partners, and with that the need to know your partner's comfort level with hearing about past experiences before you share them.  Depending on their comfort, you may or may not (carefully) proceed with sharing positive past experiences (no names necessary), but it's especially important for your partner to know about any negative experiences to better understand what to avoid, where to go slow, etc.

Lastly, we discuss sexual communication with your partner and how and when to give sexual feedback after the NRE (new relationship energy) wanes. Keeley emphasizes the need to normalize making corrections/giving feedback and generously uses her own marriage as an example. She suggests using the "sandwich technique" of surrounding your request for a change with two positive comments.

Keeley Rankin has a passion for helping people find and expand pleasure. She has a master’s in Counseling Psychology with a focus on marriage and family therapy, and has been a sex and relationship coach for over a decade. Keeley is a Certified Queer Conscious Educator as well as a Certified Sexological Bodyworker, and she specializes in helping men overcome sexual struggles.

For more information on Keeley's work visit:

• KeeleyRankin.com
• Instagram: keeleyrankinsexcoach
• Facebook: keeleyrankinma

Additional resources:

• Sandwich technique
• 10 Questions Checklist (download this FREE list of questions covering each of the Practically Married subjects)

If you like what you heard...

• Follow Practically Married with Paula Holt on your favorite podcast platform to get every episode!
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• Follow @getpracticallymarried on Instagram to tell us about your experiences using the strategies you hear on the show!

Edited by Veronica Gruba
Music by Sage Holt-Hall

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:00):
This is the first of a two part episode on sex. So this

(00:04):
one is definitely for a grownand sexy audience only. Alright,
let's get into itWelcome to practically married,

(00:26):
the podcast created to helpdating engaged and newly married
couples prepare for healthy longterm committed relationships.
I'm Paula Holt. And on thisshow, I'm going to bring you
conversations with experts whowill give you tools to take your
relationship to the next level.

(00:47):
Although many of our guests willbe therapists, please keep in
mind that practically married isfor educational purposes only,
and is not a substitute fortherapy with a licensed
professional.
Hi, thanks for joining me.
Before we get into theconversation, I wanted to take a
moment to point out somethingthat has been a recurring theme

(01:08):
in the practically marriedinterviews. And that's the need
for self reflection.
When we think about working onour relationship, we often think
about what we can work on withour partner, or probably more
often we think about what ourpartner needs to work on.
But what's emerged in theseconversations so far, is that a

(01:32):
lot of what we need to do firstis work on better understanding
ourselves. By thinking about howour childhood and other past
experiences have shaped usis the point that comes up in
this conversation today with myguest who has a passion for
helping people find and expandpleasure.

(01:54):
Keeley Rankin has been a sex andrelationship coach for over a
decade. She has a Master's inCounseling Psychology with a
focus on marriage and familytherapy. She's also a specialist
in the field of male sexualstruggles. And she's certified
and multiple forms of body work.
Let's welcome Keeley Rankin tothe show.

(02:18):
Hi, Kaylee. Welcome to thepractically married podcast. Hi,
I'm so so delighted and excitedto be here with you. Well, I am
very happy to have you becausethis is a topic that is so
important. And I think peoplewill be very interested in I
have to tell you all morning,the song that has been playing

(02:39):
in my head is let's talk aboutsix spades.
Pepper, so that's been that'sbeen playing in my head. I guess
the first thing I want to startoff with is defining what sex
is, which for some people willseem like, of course we know
what sex is. Yeah, but I think,you know, and I'm sure you'll

(03:02):
agree a lot of us are kind ofraised with a very narrow
definition of sex. And can youspeak to how you would define
sex? And maybe how couplesshould think about it? Yes. And
I actually love that we're thatyou're starting out this
part of part of this experiencetalking about like, what is sex

(03:23):
because I do believe almosteveryone and myself included
sometimes will narrow in theidea of sex. I think we hear the
word sex and most people thinkpenetration and orgasm that's
normally goes along with it too.
But sex if you'reright, if if if, depending on
Yeah,that's good. I was gonna go into

(03:44):
a more complicated thing, but yaknow, I should you know, that
applicated but it is. But youknow, it's, um, it.
There's such a huge array of waythat people can be sexual, and
erotic and inhabit their bodiesin this adult playful, fun,

(04:05):
sexy, pleasurable way. And sowhen I think of sex, I'm like,
what is fun? What is playful?
What is sexy, what is sensual,what is erotic, what feels good,
and that is sex to me and Inormally will have couples when
I start working with them todraw a big circle. If they have
children at home, I'm like, getone of those big pieces of paper
out that you give your kid anddraw a big circle and put a dot

(04:26):
for sex intercourse actually.
And then I want them to fill inall of the other things that
happen or could happen that theywould want to have happen within
that circle that is actually inthe arena of sexuality and and I
consider sex. So I think and Inormally have them put it on,

(04:46):
put it on the fridge if theycan, so they can walk by it, see
it fill it out because there isso much more to who we are as
erotic beings than just takingour clothes off and getting into
the experience ofphysical act of intercourse and
trying to find orgasm. Right? Ilike that exercise, that's a
good way to do it. Because Ithink, you know, many people are

(05:08):
visual learners. And so it's,it's a good way to remind people
in a way that they can processvery quickly and easily, right.
And you can just add it in,like, you walk into the kitchen,
and you're like, oh, yeah, thatthing, and you can add it in,
and then your partner goes bylater. And they're like, Oh, I
didn't, you put that up there.
And it sort of opens up thisplayful way of talking about it.

(05:29):
And, you know, really saying,like, we don't have to be in a
box, we don't have to be in thisbox of what we thought sex was,
we can step outside of it. We'renot wrong or bad. It doesn't
have to be shameful.
Well, another thing that thatsome people may think is
obvious, but you know, I thinkwe should really kind of start
from scratch and think aboutthese things.

(05:52):
Is why is it important in arelationship?
Right, you know, why a seximportant, I think is such an
interesting question for everyhuman engaging in a romantic
connected relationship to askthemselves, what is important
for them? Right? And is itimportant, I guess the vets
isn't important? And why right?
Is it a not B in somerelationships? Right. And I

(06:16):
think what normally happens incouples is that for one person,
it's like, number one or two onlevel of priority, and for the
other person that's maybe likefive or six, or even lower. And
that's where we get sort of thismismatch. And it becomes really
important to understand how isyour partner holding their
relationship with sexuality, andhow often and the ways in which

(06:39):
you engage with it. And youknow, that it's interesting, I
think the question of like, therole that it plays in a couple,
because I think for somecouples, it plays this role of,
it's the only thing that we dothat's unique together. Like,
you know, I go to dinner with myfriends, but I don't have sex
with my friends, I play tenniswith my sister, you know. So

(07:01):
there's a way in which sexbecomes, or this space of a rod
of sudden becomes this reallyunique shared experience between
the couple that separates itfrom family or from friends, and
moves it into this really,really unique and important
space, as well as I think formost, and these are

(07:22):
generalizations, but you know,every, and every person is very
unique. But I also think formost, most people, the
experience of taking yourclothes off, and using your
genitals or playing in that way,is a very, very
vulnerable, and there's acertain part of us inside that's

(07:45):
activated, when we share in thatway. And a level of protection,
I think that we have around ourbodies and sharing in those
vulnerable, intimate spaces. Soit also holds this.
You know, I'm, I'm engaging inthis way where I trust you to be
this vulnerable. I think that'sa big part too, for many people

(08:07):
on a deeper layer, what itsounds like. And I mean, we know
this thatEach couple has to define kind
of what their sexualrelationship means for them. And
obviously, what that requires isa level of communication. But
unfortunately, many of us have ahard time talking about six, can

(08:28):
you? Can you speak to that alittle bit and kind of some of
the challenges that you observedin couples who struggle to
communicate about sex.
I think the first thing toalways remember when we're
communicating around sex is thatmost people, if not all, people

(08:49):
don't like to use sort of theversion of all but most people
will struggle at some point tocommunicate around sexuality and
eroticism. So if you'relistening to this, and you're
thinking, Oh, no, my partner andI, like we struggled to
communicate, what do we do? Ithink the first thing to do is
to just take a big deep breath,like, okay, everything's fine.

(09:11):
Yeah, most people struggle.
It doesn't mean the end of yourrelationship. It doesn't mean
you can't work through it. Andthat breath also we want to
remember patience, because oneof the things about sexuality,
especially in a long termrelationship is this is the long
game. This is this is more thana marathon. This is 100 mile
race. This is you don't stoprunning. So there's no need to

(09:34):
sprint into it. There's no needto come at our partners with
aggression or hostility. Iunderstand resentment and anger
that is a very real emotion. Andwhen we come at our partner in
that place, it becomes very,very difficult for you know,
oftentimes people don'tcommunicate
sometimes because they're scaredor they feel ashamed, but

(09:56):
sometimes people just genuinelyand more often than not, they
don't knowNo, like, they don't know the
answer to these questions. I'venever thought about it.
Well, a lot of times it's noteven not knowing the answer to
the question is what question doyou even ask?
Where do you start? Right? Manyof us, I certainly count myself

(10:16):
among the many when it comes tonot having learned about six,
kind of in any direct way. Iwasn't, you know, I didn't go
from I didn't come from one ofthose households where the
parents spoke openly. For that'san understatement. Actually, it
wasn't spoken about at all.
Right. And and I think for a lotof people, maybe it's a little

(10:38):
better for,for people today. But it really
depends. There's a big spectrumbetween people who were raised
in sort of a overly sexualizedenvironment. And then there's a
healthy environment. And thenthose those many, many on the
range where no one discussed it.

(10:59):
Yeah. And so that, yeah, thatquestion of like, where do we
even begin to communicate aboutit also, and I think that's the
gentleness with yourself oflike, I'm not wrong or bad for
not knowing where to start. Andthere's lots and lots of
resources, there's notnecessarily one perfect place to
start. It's more just that youstart, and you hold the space to
let it evolve. And beingcurious. And it seems especially

(11:23):
difficult, I think, for a lot ofstraight couples, because there
is going back to that definitionof sex. There is this kind of
expectation in straight couples,a lot of times that, well, we
know what sex is, and right,we're just going to do that.
Whereas I think in a lot ofqueer couples, right, so I have
been told is that you have tocommunicate about sex from the

(11:48):
beginning, because you have tosay what you want, there's no,
there's not a given of what sexis going to be as much we're
partners as frustrate partners.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah,they're sort of
because they have to navigatemore complex dynamics

(12:09):
that don't fit that typicalscript that everyone's just sort
of handed as they enteredpuberty through their peers.
There's more of there's more ofa conversation, although, you
know, not always, I think it isalso true is very difficult for
many queer couples tocommunicate as well.
But there are some things I yes,that I think that they know,

(12:29):
that they would have to normallynavigate in the bedroom that
allows them to have slightlydifferent types of
conversations. Absolutely. Well,you know, on the subject of sex
and communication, I think,well, you know, really what I
want to talk to you about today,and you have so graciously
agreed to do two episodes onsex, because we just couldn't

(12:52):
figure out a way to fit it allin. And so one of the things I
want to start with is couplestalking about their sexual
history.
And what that means, because Iwill say, I grew up in an era
where your history was yournumber, you know, when people
talked about that, and it was,you know, during, you know, the,

(13:15):
the kind of the height of HIVand AIDS, and people want it to
know people's number sometimes,and when the age something
around the number, and thenumber just doesn't, it doesn't
begin to tell the story of whatyour sexual history is, nor does
you know your experience withSTIs. But that's another thing

(13:36):
that sometimes people previouslywould would be asking when they
asked about your sexual history.
But can you talk to us a littlebit about when you think of
someone's sexual history? Whatdoes that mean?
Yeah, I normally, the firstthing I think of when I think of
someone's sexual history isactually the first time that

(13:58):
they explored masturbation orwhat they remember about self
pleasuring sometimes it's wayway back, like lots of children
will actually explore touchingthemselves just for pleasure,
you know, three, four years old,and some people will have
memories of their parents,scolding them, or really shaming
them. And well, you know, wenormally and it's very

(14:22):
controversial to talk about ayounger person as a sexual being
but we are all born sexualbeings. And as we move through
life, and we develop differentlevels of maturity, our
sexuality ends up most of thetime looking more like an adult
sexuality. But there is youknow, if we take sexuality as
this connection to pleasure inour bodies.

(14:46):
It's something when I think ofhistory is like going way back
in time and looking at thoseexperiences of how people
learned about pleasure in theirbodies. There's definitely the
space to learn aboutyou know, pee
Uberti and if orgasm is a partof someone's experience, their
first orgasms their first sexualpartners, and what we're really,

(15:08):
you know, when I, sometimesheterosexual couples can be a
little funny about learningabout people's past sexual
partners, like I don't want tolearn about who he or she was
with. And that's just too muchfor me to hear. But there is
some really importantinformation that you're probably
gonna need or want to know, in along term committed

(15:29):
relationship, specificallyaround if there's any sexual
violations that happened ifsomeone experienced someone
forcing themselves on on yourpartner, because that's going to
that is going to show up in yourrelationship. Absolutely. And
you will want to know aboutthat, even before past partners,

(15:50):
you know, seems important tohave conversations informative,
certainly to have conversationsabout how you learned about sex,
right? And what messages youreceived about.
Right, depending on yourbackground, did you receive
information about particularlyaround like, these stereotypical

(16:10):
gender? You know, messagesaround what good girls are? Or
what men what a man is? And whata man does?
And you share? I don't know, ifyou've, when you can't, when you
counsel couples, yeah, youprobably get into a lot of that
type of information. Right? Ithink there's definitely like
these stereotypical messagesthat people receive about what

(16:33):
it means to be your gender andhow that impacts us as, as
sexual beings. And one of thethings I also get really curious
about with, withpeople, when I work with them,
and couples, when I work withthem is the messages that they
actually got around relaxation,or self care, or doing things
that are fun, just for you thataren't work related. You know,

(16:56):
the Western culture is veryseeped in, like, Do do do get
things done productivity, go totwo, yes, exactly. And really
exploring, like, Did you seeyour parents relax or take care
of themselves? I mean, mostpeople aren't going to see their
parents in an erotic experience.

(17:17):
But did you? Did you observethem in a space where they
could, and let go, and thatoftentimes, I found the clients
who, whose parents were reallyin that space of self care. And,
and when I mean, self care, Imean, doing things that allow
them to just relax that aren'tproductivity based, right. And

(17:40):
that actually has an incrediblyinteresting impact on how people
think about sexuality. Thepeople who grew up, you know,
I don't know why. But I'veworked with a lot of people who
came from farms, this is maybe alittle odd. But there's this,
you wake up early in themorning, you don't take a day
off, you go out rain or shine,and you'd get it done. And they

(18:00):
can sometimes bring that energyinto the bedroom of like, we
just got to get this done, wejust got to figure it out. It's
like we could time it. And it'sto happen. And there's this,
there's this becomes a lack ofcuriosity, not for everyone who
has worked on a farm or lived ona farm, of course, but there can
be this energy that carriesforward based on what was
happening in the family thatjust gets put into our sexual

(18:23):
worlds. Because everything thatwe're doing is impacting who we
are sexual beings is not aseparate thing. It's not just
like, suddenly you leaveyourself and move towards the
erotic space. We are always inour erotic space, and is always
being impacted. And I thinkthose things are also just as
important as looking at theother pieces that we're talking

(18:43):
about, like those messages thatthat we're getting, or the roles
that each parent played in therelationship is always a really
interesting one, too. Right?
Well, I thought you were gonnasay, have we observed our
parents, not that we, you know,most of us, as you said, don't
observe our parents in any trueerotic way. But even just
observing them beingaffectionate, right, you know,

(19:04):
kind of, I thought you weregonna say that, but you took
that even to self care, which Ithink is interesting, even just
relaxing. Right? Right. I havethought about that as something
that would impact you sexuallyas as an adult and that kind of
almost subconscious message,right? You're getting about how
to treat yourself and and whatto do kind of with your time. So

(19:28):
that's that's an interestingpoint. Well, it is also really
interesting, too. I think whenyou ask people if they ever
witnessed their parents, youknow, being intimate in front of
them if they ever saw a questionthat, again, is more of a
trauma.

(19:50):
Hearing is often a violation ofthat person's experience. And
that could be a trauma but moreof a sweet gesture like, like a
gentle kiss.
or a Shoulder Touch that maybethe parents didn't see the child
was there. And they did. But itwas still in an appropriate
context. So that they felt like,oh, yeah, my parents have this

(20:11):
secret special life that theyshare together, there's an
energy that happens when apartner reaches out to another
in a loving gesture like that.
And that can also have that canhave a really big impact of
like, Oh, I get to have thatwhen I'm older. That's what
adults do versus never seensomething like that. Right.
Okay. And when you mentioned,you know, the kind of the trauma

(20:31):
around seat, the walk in or thehearing,
can you speak to that a littlebit, and kind of how you see
that impacting people as adults?
Yeah, so not every person whooverhears or walks in on their
parent is going to experiencea trauma around it, it's more

(20:53):
the context of how it happens.
You know, if it's happeningregularly, it can really be
very, very confusing. The typeof sex that an adult is gauging
engaging in is not somethingthat a child can understand,
comprehend, their brains are notset up, their bodies are not set

(21:16):
up. Their, their sexual organsgo with that very controversial
again, but they're not not in away that an adult is. And so it
can feel very confusing,alarming, not understanding.
It's not the end of the world ifit happens, but it's definitely

(21:36):
something.
If you if you're not able to, atthat moment, if your parent
wasn't able to talk to you, orif you have children, and that
has happened, and you you know,it is important to try to
discuss with them a little bitwhat had happened. And, of
course, mitigate anyopportunity, get a lock on the
door, if you can, noisemachines, because

(22:00):
the other people who I've workedwith her that's been an ongoing
experience, it's there's justthis violate, they feel this,
what has been reported, whatthey share is it just feels like
this violation upon them. Likethere's something being foisted
upon them that they didn't askfor didn't consent to, they
don't understand what'shappening, they don't feel taken
care of going back to the issueof past partner, so if you

(22:24):
imagine your sexuality as anadult, you know, you've been
this child who has been raisedwith certain messages, certain
experiences. Now, if you haveassuming you are a sexually
active or worse sexually activeperson before you met your
partner, because not everyoneis, but assuming you are, then
you've had these past sexualexperiences with other partners.

(22:47):
And you spoke to that a littlebit earlier. But I think we
should talk about that a littlebit more, because it is
important and it is relevant toyour current relationship.
Absolutely. That's something toreflect on, I think, and to talk
about, but maybe you can speakto it is something to talk about
carefully. And maybe not atleast for for a lot of people.

(23:12):
Right, right? To talk aboutcarefully. And so how would you
kind of suggest that coupleshave those conversations around
kind of past partners?
I think the first thing to dowhen in the conversation would
be to gauge everyone's level ofcomfort. Right? So we say,

(23:32):
you know, we're going to havethis conversation around our
sexual histories. We know we'veboth been erotic with other
people. Like are you know, oneto 1010 is like I'm comfortable.
Tell me anything like a friend.
One is like I barely even wantto have this conversation Lala
listening. I've never heard thatthat's not true. You're a virgin
when I met you.

(23:53):
You know, so as you can sort ofgauge people's level of comfort
and I think that's going toimpact how you share if someone
is just like I I'm curious toknow anything I know you love
me. I know you had a past.
I'm, I feel confident, secureand are couple and I I trust
you, then it's sort of like youjust start sharing and the

(24:15):
places that we would want tofocus on more even and in
general would be things thatwere really pleasurable, that
you liked that you enjoyedthings that turned you on that
maybe you still think about nowor that surprised you. That felt
really good. That's always aninteresting one. Like what
surprised you that you werelike, well, I didn't know I like

(24:36):
that.
And that could be anything fromspecific touches to like, the
way the erotic experience waslaid out, like, first we boarded
an airplane and then we wenthere and then this happened, you
know, can be a whole experienceor it could just be one
particular way of touching orsome particular sexual

(24:59):
experience andAnd then the other piece that's
really important is things thatyou found that you don't like,
actually things that you'relike, Ooh, that was not my
thing. Andthis is why and you know, what's
true about humans is oursexuality is evolving, it's not
going to be the same. So thewoman or the person that you
were having sex 10 years agowith somebody, there, you cannot

(25:20):
revisit that body, your body isnow different, and the things
that are pleasurable and turnyou on that you desire will be
different. And there is alsoinformation that we can normally
gather and bring with us. Well,it almost seems like unless your
partner says, I'm a 10, you cantell me anything, that telling

(25:41):
them the bad things would beeasier, and maybe telling them
or not easier for you easier forthem, it might be more difficult
for you.
But important, very important,because they don't know the
negative, they don't know thenegative things you experienced,

(26:03):
they may do something thataffects you in a visceral way.
And they have no idea. So right,it's sort of a, it's sort of
like athere's a there's many facets to
the conversation around pastrelationships. There's a
building of closeness, knowingsomeone has someone's history,
their memories,the intimacy that happens when

(26:27):
we share vulnerable information.
And then there's also just thissuperhighway of like, Oh, my
partner doesn't like that. SoI'm probably not going to try it
again. Or if I do, I'm going toask, and we can revisit it. But
it's like you don't have tostumble over that block that
someone's already stumbled over.
Right? You can just kind of skipit move forward, it is possible
to share information. Forinstance, I don't know that I

(26:51):
would want to hear, hey, this iswhat some other woman did to me
that I like, can you do that? Idon't necessarily know that I
want to hear that specifically,but to say like, I like this
act, or I like this touch or,you know, you don't necessarily
have to say, well, it was thisperson. You remember I told you
remember that woman we ran intoat the grocery store? Yeah, she

(27:14):
did this to me, and I liked it,you know, leave those details
out. You know, it's tricky,because people who are, who are
ones on the Comfort Scale haveoften very elaborate brain paths
when this happens. So if you sayI like this, there can already
sometimes be on the journey oflike, Who did that to you and

(27:36):
who was happening. And they cango into this whole elaborate
fantasy in their head or, or, ornightmare.
So, you know, it's interestingthat the delicate path of
walking, how much informationyou share and not share. And
that's where the communicationabout the communication becomes
important. Right? It's like whenyou said it that way, it didn't

(27:58):
feel good. Can we try anotherway to find to communicate about
this for us as a couple thatfits what we need at this time.
And I'm imagining, as you hearabout something your husband
did, you know, over time, youwould actually probably grow
more comfortable. Andthe first time it would probably

(28:19):
be alarming, but I'm imaginingover time.
Trusting that he's going toshare with you the things that
he knows you need to know abouthis history would actually allow
you to build more trust withinyour couple with him. Right, I
can see that the only thing Ithink would be difficult is if

(28:40):
it was something that I had tofeel like I had to live up to,
like, Oh, can I do this as well?
Right? Yes, right. Right. Yes.
Where it would be hard to hearthat information. Right in the
attribute, any attributing it toa specific person from the past,

(29:01):
I can see where I can see a lotof couples struggling with that.
And that's actually not what'sreally important. What's not
important is who was the personwho did these things with
necessarily what you learnedabout yourself in those erotic
experiences, what your takeawaywas? And I think what's tricky,
and you're leading to a reallyinteresting point, which is such
a major place that people getstuck with sex is the

(29:24):
comparison. Right? Am I goodenough? Am I as good as her? Or
him? You know, are we getting itright as a couple are other
people doing it better and thatis such a mess to get stuck in
in. It's really something goodto catch yourself and when
you're in comparing mind. Well,I definitely want to talk about
that more in our next episode,because I want to talk about

(29:47):
that as it relates topornography. So let's let's hold
hold that one. Okay, great. Alittle teaser. Yeah, a little
bit.
HereA just a quick break in this
interview to let you know aboutone of the free resources
available at practically Marydotnet.

(30:08):
Download our 10 Questionschecklist. So you and your
partner can answer questionsfrom each of the 10 practically
Mary's subjects, includingmoney, sex, in laws and more.
After you answer all thequestions, send me a DM and gay
practically married. And let meknow how it went. Okay, back to
our conversation.

(30:31):
So we talked about the past interms of your, you know, kind of
growing up what messages you'vehad, and then paths partners. So
now I want to kind of move intothe present with your partner.
And I think that what people maybe a step that people forget is
they go right into theirrelationship as a couple, and

(30:52):
don't think about theirsexuality individually. First,
and I know that's something thatyou've talked about and because
So can you talk a little bitabout up about how each person
needs to reflect on their ownsexuality
and bring that information andthat self knowledge to the

(31:13):
relationship? Right, so Inormally or or I always think
about human sexuality as twoparts. What's much more
complicated than this is an easyway to talk about this. There's
you as a sexual being who isexploring self pleasure by
yourself, we normally use theword masturbation, and then
there's you as a sexual being inrelationship with other people.

(31:34):
And these two sexual eroticbeings often look different. The
way you masturbate, what you doin private, how you just move
into your own pleasure willoften look very different than
if you have a witness or areparticipating in some experience
with another person or witnessmakes me laugh.

(31:55):
There's Yeah, so it's,I think what you're speaking to
is how do we take what we knowabout ourselves? Or how do we
allow ourselves to learn aboutour own self pleasure and
Bridgette, into our partneredexperience, and, you know, some
people me for many, many years,I didn't have any sort of self
pleasuring practice, I didn'tmasturbate it and grow up

(32:18):
masturbating. My first, youknow, genital experiences were
with a partner, I ended uphaving to find my orgasm,
because I am adelayed orgasm, or meaning it
was difficult for me to find myorgasm. So went on this whole
sexual journey, and then I endedup finding it alone and had to
learn how to bring it into apartnership. And thank you for

(32:39):
sharing that. Because, yeah,that can't be emphasized enough.
Right. Right. And I think thatthere, if one is over,
emphasized, which we can getinto this with the porn too,
like, if self pleasure is overemphasized and partner
experiences happening, therebecomes an imbalance, or if only
partner experiences happening,and there's no exploration of

(33:02):
self pleasuring, that can alsobe an imbalance. And of course,
in the longevity of a longcouple different things are
going to take over, given what'shappening with people's health,
or things going on in theirlife. At some point, those
aren't going to feel necessarilyin balance, but we want to be
mindful about them. And so, youknow, I always I actually hold

(33:23):
this belief thatonce we get past the new
relationship energy, which isInari, couples talk about that,
in a when you meet your partner,there's so much excitement
happening, there's so manyhormones, there's so many
fantasies, so many ideas, andyou're just ecstatic to be with
that person no matter what theydo. But as you get to know them
more, and the NRA wears off, ourreal sexuality comes forward,

(33:45):
not just this hyped up animated,won't do anything. And that's
actually where the realrelationship begins as well. And
that is where the importance ofknowing your body, staying
connected with your body andbeing being able to bring that
forward. And sharing becomesreally, really important. Right.
And, specifically, I think oneof the things that's really

(34:09):
important in the present momentof the couple is how do we share
feedback around things thatexcite us or things that aren't
quite right. And I think there'smany ways to share the positive
feedback, you can do that in themoment. And more importantly,
even if you do it in themorning, that moment, you know,

(34:29):
I often will have couples startor will start our sessions if
things are going well in theirrelationship with them. Taking a
moment to go back and forth andsay what they have enjoyed about
their erotic experiences. Andit's surprising because I work
with so many people and theyknow we're going to do that. And
I'm like, Have you guys talkedabout it? Since you know, the
last week since I saw you, youhad this amazing experience is

(34:51):
totally new. You're feelingconnected? Now? Like no, we
didn't talk about it.
Okay, well, I mean, we're gonnatalk about it here, which is
great. And it's likeI'm always trying to get people
if things are going well, if youhave a sexy experience with your
partner, tell them, tell themthat evening, tell them the next
day, tell him in a text a weeklater hamstra Thinking about
that thing, it is incrediblyimportant to continue to bolster

(35:13):
the confidence of the sexualcouple when things are going
well, becausewe can get caught up in
endlessly about things thataren't going well, or you know,
life is long. And there's somany parts and pieces and being
married is complicated. And sothe more we can really highlight
and emphasize when things arepleasurable, and gray is, I

(35:36):
think, is a really, reallyimportant part of the longevity
of a sexual couple. Yeah, andit's a way to extend the
experience, right? Becausealmost no matter how good it is,
or was it lasts for a finiteperiod of time, and then a way
to extend that is to revisit it,like you said in a conversation
and a text. That might be apleasant text to

(36:01):
write, that might that'd be apleasant text to receive. If
you're having a bad day at workand get that text, it might give
you a little smile, right? Andit also gives people confidence,
like, oh, I, you know, mypartner's thinking about me, and
they thought I was sexy. And wehave that special thing
together. It's a real confidenceboost for a lot of people.
Right? Well, I think you know,that kind of moves us into

(36:24):
talking more about the yourexperience as a couple going
just to kind of put aput a no, say put a pin in it.
But go back to that and thataspect of knowing your own
sexuality. And just making surethat you have an understanding
of what turns you on of whatmight bring you to orgasm. I

(36:46):
think it's a very unfairexpectation to expect that our
partner should know how toplease us if we don't know what
it's pleasing to us. Right. AndI think we get into a little
slightly tricky territory there.
So if anyone's listening tothis, I don't want them to feel
ashamed or embarrassed. Becauseagain, what's true is sometimes

(37:06):
people just don't know. And sothey're relying on and I know,
because I was that person formany, many years, I was just
relying on the other personcarrying the energy, because I
wasn't able hadn't taken thetime felt scared, ashamed,
embarrassed to really figure itout for myself. And I think
sometimes when people getmarried, they're like, Well, I'm

(37:27):
married now. So my partnershould just do it for me, or I
shouldn't have to do thisbecause I'm in my 40s. Or, you
know, okay, I think we just addto it, yes. To the window. Yeah.
Well, for sure.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Because I didn't say that as acriticism. And I know to be
clear, it's it's just a matterof

(37:52):
not putting pressure on them ornot labeling them as someone who
doesn't satisfy me right. When Ihave, if I haven't communicated
or explored. What is satisfying.
That's all I've met. Totally,totally. I know, I'm just
thinking about people who are inthat dynamic and where they go.
Right. Right. Right. And I'mglad you said that, because a
lot of people going back tothose messages from the past, a

(38:14):
lot of people do get messagesthat about negative messages
about masturbation, or messagesthat masturbation is something
you do when you're single, itshouldn't be something you do
when you're in a couple and someright couples, some partners
have issue with that it issometimes they are concerned
that their partner may believethat you're not pleasing me

(38:35):
enough, you're not satisfyingneeds. So I have this right. And
we'll get more into that withthe porn piece too. Because that
is a big, that's can be a bigpart because porn make primarily
comes in in the masturbationspace. So yes, it's a big one.
And it's really tricky, youknow, to explore yourself
pleasure if you have a partnerwho feels like, that's not a
space that needs to be occupiedwhen you're married. And and a

(39:00):
lot of people do feel that way.
So I'm happy you're talkingabout that, because a lot of
people are like, unless I wastelling them to go and explore
self pleasure. They would notand their partner would be like,
you know, who knows, might mighthappen behind closed doors, but
I do often times people do sharelike, oh, you know, all of those
thoughts, like masturbation isfor single people or it's bad,

(39:23):
or it's what you do when youcan't get sex, especially for
men or good girls don't touchthemselves down there. Again,
that's all of that messaginghistory piece. That impacts the
couple in that moment, day today, how are they exploring? How
are they sharing? How are theyfinding pleasure?
All right. Well, I I'm thinkingabout that in terms of a

(39:47):
homework assignment. Maybewe'll, we'll come to some some
suggestions for couples becausewhat I like to do is have people
leave this conversation, havingsome conch
three specific things that theycan try together. So let's,
let's put that. Let's put thaton the list exploring that.

(40:07):
Let's say you have some thingsmaybe that you want to work on.
How would you recommend coupleskind of broach? Yes, subject? It
depends on how big thecorrection is. If your body is
shutting down and saying no, no,no, no, no, absolutely. In the

(40:28):
moment, we know Yes, yes, yeah,yes. And in some regards, if
we're on that level of bodyshutting down, it doesn't matter
how you get it out, you justsay, No, we need to stop. I
think it's great that youpointed out very important to
point out that if somethingstarts to feel like a violation,
or if you feel yourself shuttingdown, that in a relationship in

(40:51):
a marriage with a trustedpartner, it is still, you know,
your body and your place to say,we need to stop. Right, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. At anypoint, for any reason, no matter
what, even if you don't know whyyou're saying it, it's an
important thing. And sometimesin those moments that can take

(41:11):
some time to figure out why.
Right.
And but that being said, it isimportant in those moments.
In a, we don't want to blameyour partner. And that can be
really, really tricky, becausewe're talking generalizations,
and each couple is reallydifferent. But even if your
partner is if you're wanting tomake a correction, about

(41:35):
something that they'regiving to you performing on your
body engaging with and you'rejust like, Oh, we don't really
like that. We don't want to makeit like your partner's bad or
wrong. Because what happens isrobs people have their
curiosity, and they start tofeel watched. And some people
are very, very, very sensitiveto criticism or feedback. So it
has to be really gently given, Ioften talk about it in if you're

(42:00):
going to do it in the moment, oreven after, I guess is like
sandwiching most people knowthat from work, like sandwiching
the feedback. So I really lovethis, this isn't feeling so for
in the moment, it's like, um, Iwas loving the way you kissed my
neck when you came to my mouth.
Something wasn't feeling quiteright, I wonder if you could go

(42:20):
back and kiss my neck again. Sothat would be a correction of my
partner is sticking his tonguedown my throat and I didn't like
it, which does happen with my,my husband.
You know, I think I really wantto normalize what it means to
make corrections or to givefeedback because my husband and
I, we've been together, thingsget all blurry with COVID. But

(42:41):
like, around five years. And youknow, in terms of our sexual
relationship, there's a lot ofamazing things about our sex
life, I mean, a sex coach, so Iwouldn't, you know, marry
someone unless the sex waspretty great. high priority for
me in terms of priority, right.
And, you know, and there arestill things that we're making
improvements on that I sort ofknew from, like day one or two

(43:04):
of our sex life, that these weregoing to be things that we
needed to work on. And that'smainly his touch, like how he
touches me, I like very light,sensual, energetic touches. And
it's taken him a very long, longtime to learn how to do that.
And there are moments where Iwas mad and gonna give up and,

(43:25):
you know, and we're stillworking through it, and it feels
like most of the time, it'sgreat, but you know, he
definitely has to get into astate of mind to be able to
offer that type of touch becauseit just does not come naturally
to him at all. And so I want tosay that as like your things
don't have to be this fairy taleperfect, everything start to

(43:46):
finish feels amazing and great,and you're just lost in the
moment and that may be the casefor for people out there which
is wonderful. And for mostpeople their erotic experience,
there's lots of great things andthere's some things that you
would like to be slightlyimproved. So just really
normalizing that it's not theend of the world again, your

(44:06):
couple isn't destitute for youknow, never having great sex. It
just gives you something to workon. So that feed Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that andthank you to your husband for
it's clear that you know youhave his consent to talk about
this and so thank you to him forbeing willing to again be

(44:29):
vulnerable and and have thatshare because I think it's
helpfulfor you to say that and for
people to understand becausethere's gonna be people
situation. Right well, and Ijust know, buddy, again, as are
generalizations butmaybe you have one evening where
everything feels perfect, butthere will in the longevity of a

(44:51):
long term sexual connection.
There are always going to bethings that need correct course
corrections, no onejust gets it always right to the
other person all of the time. SoI think the person listening,
when you're listening here, andyou're thinking, Oh, my partner
is going to give me feedback, wecannot hear it as criticism or
as like a guide way to the nextplace that we're going to head

(45:14):
so you can learn more about thatperson's body. And also, if we
hold this place of our bodiesare always changing, right? So
what we liked last week, or lastyear or three years ago, it's,
um, you know, it's not likelythat it's going to be exactly
the same. And that's where thatcuriosity comes from. And that's
why we want to be gentle in ourfeedback with people so that

(45:36):
they don't lose that sense oftrying new things. Because we
really, you really need thatcuriosity to keep a sex life
going throughout time. Right?
Well, can you speak to yousitting you gave a great example
of in the moment, right? I likeit when you were kissing my
neck. And right now thatexample, can you give an

(45:58):
example? Where it's not in themoment, but there's may be some
other issue and how to broachthat? Right? So I think you can
still sandwich it after if youneed to, if you feel like you
have a partner who's a littlesensitive about feedback, you
could say like, you know, yes,if it's say, Yes, I agree. And I

(46:19):
would say, Let's not do this,right after, let's be at least
like two hours from the moment.
Let's just say that, in general,do not broach this topic within
two hours. But it could be like,hey, I want to talk about the
sex that we had.
You know, I really loved how youwere sucking on my fingers. But

(46:43):
you know, I want to talk to youabout how we're doing oral sex,
something isn't feeling quiteright for me, are you open to
talking about it? If you'regonna bring it into? Or you can
add that piece? Are you open totalking about it before, if
you're gonna bring a biggertopic that's going to need
something like, the way we'redoing oral sex, or the way

(47:04):
you're undressing me or the wayyou're spanking me, or how you
move me into differentpositions, or how you pull my
hair, or, you know, if it'sgoing to be a bigger piece, not
just like a little minicorrection. I often say ask for
permission, either telling theperson what you want to talk
about and ask for permission totalk about it or say, hey, I

(47:25):
want to talk about our sex lifeis, you know, is now a good
time, or should we talk about ita little bit later, just to give
people some space, because if wego back to the history piece,
which is why it's so importantto know someone's history. And
sex is a really scary topic forthem. Like I've had people that
I've worked with, and they'lljust they show up in my office,
and they just for the first twoor three years, they're like, I

(47:47):
hate coming in here. I wish Ididn't have to, I don't want to
talk about sex. This isterrible. You know, so if
you're, if your partner is oneof those people, and suddenly
you're trying to get them totalk about it willy nilly on the
fly before bed, right? Not gonnago well, it's just not and
you're going to be reallydisappointed. And you're going
to continue to be disappointed.
So that's where that historypiece of how is sex talked about

(48:09):
or not talked about? How arepeople holding it, their level
of comfort becomes so importantto know how to approach your
partner.
And knowing in the communicationthat you don't have to these are
all ongoing conversations rightthere. There's no, it doesn't

(48:29):
have to be resolved that day,right? Especially something as
complex as oral sex like that isa whole complex thing that will
take potentially years to sortthrough and figure out and to
start having conversationsaround. If it's just like, I
don't like when you spank my asslike that. That could be a one

(48:50):
time potentially one timeconversation depending on your
couple. So Right. Okay. Well, Iwould like to, as I said, Leave
couples with a few very specificand very, like, easily
implemented.
Kind of, I'll say homeworkassignments, because you know,
to hear my kids tell it homeworkis terrible. And I guess I you

(49:12):
know, remember that, but somesome suggested activities for
them. What would you suggest?
Yeah, so I thinkwe're, I think we hold this as
homework but loosely throughoutyour life, okay. Like to explore
without pressure, but to just becurious and to lean into. You

(49:35):
know, I thinkI think a really interesting
place to start, if you've neverstarted these conversations
before is to just be asking yourpartner how important is sex to
you? How important is our eroticlife to you? And what does our
erotic life mean? Like what iswhat is

(50:00):
So, when you think about it,like, how do you think of it?
And I think it's okay for thesequestions to be open ended
again, because they're ongoingconversations, but it just sort
of dipped your toe in the waterof this level of,
can we talk about it? How do wetalk about it? Do we give it

(50:20):
space? And to really watchyourself? If you bring this up?
You know, how do you re relateto it as your partner shares?
And to watch how long does ittake for your partner to come
back? And do you have to bugthem to talk about it? I mean,
there's a lot of reallyinteresting information that can
come in that. So how, howimportant is our sex life?

(50:41):
Right. Okay. How important isour sex life? Okay, I want a
great one. Okay. All right. Whatelse? And and what is our sex
life mean to you? And what doesit mean? Okay, okay. Okay. And
then if we're gonna go into thetalking space, I think asking
those questions around history,right. How what, what were some
of the messages? I think asimple question would be, what

(51:04):
are some of the messages thatyou feel you received about sex?
As you were growing up? Okay.
Early some of the earliestmessages? Yes. And that could be
family, that could be siblings,family, siblings, parents, or
that could be your peers?
Society? Yep. Because that'swhere a lot of information comes

(51:24):
from, unfortunately, a lot ofwrong a lot of information.
Right. Right. Unfortunately,children fill in the gaps where
they don't have answers. Soyeah, that's, that's an
interesting one. Also, I think,you know, if you're feeling
brave, or things are feelinggood asking about sexual
histories, hey, I want to have aconversation about our sexual

(51:45):
histories, things we know welike and don't like or have
explored. think that's a reallyimportant place to get to know
your partner and to understandabout them. Okay, so that's
three good ones. And then I'mgoing to even bring back your
visual exercise on what is next.

(52:07):
And so you put if you drew a bigcircle, let's make a big circle.
Big circle. Okay.
And then you put a stop. Okay,that in the middle, and that's
all interests. Okay. So ifyou're,
if your straight couple bestintercourse? What if you're not

(52:30):
a straight couple?
I think you could decide whatyou want to put there as that go
to thing that because what isintercourse is the thing that
heterosexual couples go to tosay, we did write race. So it
would be in your couple, what doyou go to that says we did it

(52:51):
and that would adopt? Actuallydon't put it in the middle
because I normally I guess I'mI'm normally doing this in my
session. I normally put it notin the center.
Kind of Yeah. The center of it.
Right, right. Right. Okay.
Great. I'm glad you pointed. Youpointed that out.
I'm glad you mentioned that. Sothat's another one, especially

(53:14):
if you are more visuallyoriented, right? Maybe he was
failing, you would just put dotsand add other things hugging dot
bass together, you know.msCentral massage, eight, right,
we would just start to fail inother things that happen in that
circle that are essentialsexuality, eroticism based.

(53:36):
Okay. Well, that's great. Ithink we have given people some
good work to do. And they needto do it all this week before we
talk next week. No, I'm kidding.
Like you said, no, no, no. Youreyes got big. Oh, I said a
lifetime. These are ongoingconversations. The only thing
that I might ask is that if, ifin the next week, you could

(53:58):
start to broach theconversation. Just because I
think some people because it canbe hard to do. And there's an
expression something thatdoesn't have to happen at
anytime. I can't rememberexactly how it goes. But if it
doesn't, right, basically, itnever happens. Right? Yeah. So
it so I would maybe the I wouldinvite couples. And because

(54:19):
everyone likes to be invited.
That doesn't mean you have toaccept the invitation. But it's
nice to be invited. I wouldinvite couples, or a partner who
is listening.
To try one of these things, atleast try to initiate one of
these conversations in the nextweek. If in fact, this is
something that you struggle withuse this as your, in fact use

(54:43):
this as your scapegoat. You cansay I was listening to this
podcast and they say we have todo this. So I think even better
if you're the type of personwhere this is really difficult.
Just then this recording with aheart emoji.
Right, exactly.
that'll be aggressive and thenyour partner, hopefully we'll
open it up and that will force aconversation upon you.

(55:08):
That's great.
Thank you, Kelly so much. I'mglad that we kind of laid the
groundwork in this conversation.
And I'm so glad you're gonnacome back again. And we're gonna
talk about some of these otherissues. We'll talk about
monogamy and non monogamy. Talkabout some sexual fantasies,
different desires. We're goingto talk about pornography, as

(55:28):
we've mentioned, and you're notalso like us to talk to and you
mentioned it earlier. Differentlevels of desire. So I think
that's a big one. Yep. Yep.
Okay, great. Wonderful. UsuallyRankin, thanks for being with
us. Okay, we'll see you nextweek.

(55:57):
To learn more about Kelly'swork, visit Kili rankin.com.
That's keleyrankin.com. You canalso follow her on Instagram and
Facebook at Keely Rankin sexcoach. Check the show notes for
all this information.

(56:29):
Thanks for joining us this week.
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(56:52):
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