December 24, 2024 • 69 mins
Amy Perrier is a Christian, Physical Therapist, Mother to five children...and a ranch wife.
In this episode, she discusses the challenges, rewards and learnings that she has gathered over the past two+ decades of trying to balance all of these duties.
We talk spousal communication, generational transitions, Retirement (or lack thereof) and community leadership.
Like the one I did with Ava last January, we recorded this on Bluetooth in the truck, so get ready for a little road noise and a few pauses as we navigate the byways of south central Missouri while recording our discussion.
It's real, raw and hopefully relatable for a lot of you.
We pray that you all have a wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (00:03):
Well, Merry Christmas.
And thanks for joining us forepisode 66 of practically
ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier.
Well, this one is long overduefrom several perspectives.
First off, it's been a month ornearly a month since our last
episode.
And I apologize between our bullsale, a couple long weeks, maybe
(00:26):
three long weeks of bulldeliveries and then a fall AI
season and flushing donors andeverything else right after
that.
The pod once again, got pushedto the back burner.
So, um, I apologize, but we wereback plus after lots of requests
over the months or a year, Ifinally got my wife, Amy to join
(00:48):
me on the podcast.
I think though that the wait wasworthwhile, we recorded it on
our anniversary as fitting asthat might be.
And this was almost a month ago,but I finally got time to edit
and post the recording thisweek.
So I'm like the one that I didwith Ava last January, we
recorded this on Bluetooth inthe truck.
(01:11):
And so.
Prepare yourself for a littleroad noise.
A few long pauses as we navigatethe byways of south central,
Missouri, and Arkansas, where wewere while we were recording
this discussion.
But I think.
If you can tolerate that, Ithink you'll enjoy the
discussion.
The discussion actually kind ofturned into more of a therapy
(01:33):
session, a few points during thepodcast.
I kind of hoped that we would bethe therapists leading this
discussion for you.
But I think we may have turnedinto the patients.
So I guess that makes you thetherapist.
I'm sorry.
Uh, send me the bill.
We talk about spousalcommunication.
(01:55):
Generational transitionsretirement or lack thereof for
most farmers and ranchers.
Community leadership and, and awhole host of other discussion
points.
And.
While this may not have been themost topical conversation.
It was real.
And it may have been a littlebit raw and it may touch a few
(02:16):
nerves as we talk aboutranchers, psyche and their
spouses and their families.
And I likely gore everybody's oxat some point in this episode.
So if you're a generation olderthan I am, I'm sorry.
If you are a generation youngerthan I am.
I'm sorry.
It probably got everybodyincluding myself.
(02:38):
Um, you may not learn anything.
Especially earth shattering inthis next hour.
But I hope that we shed somelight on the challenges that we
all face.
As we walk in the back door, thefront door at home or in the
office.
After we've finished the day.
At work or doing the real workeach day.
(03:01):
And we end this podcast withkind of a bit of a
self-reflection and hopefullysome gratefulness of what it is
that we all have.
And while I didn't intend thisto be a Christmas episode, I
think that pausing to find thegood and what we see and what we
do and what we, those that wehave around us.
Every day is pretty fitting thistime of year.
(03:23):
And so, um, maybe it all waspart of God's plan that I was
this tardy and maybe this willfit as a Christmas episode after
all.
So the, for the final time thisyear, I thank you from the
bottom of my heart for listeningto practically ranching and
supporting our family and ourranch and, uh, the tremendous
bull sale that we just finishedup with.
(03:45):
I know a lot of you, um, werethere and a lot of you were
bidding online and, and again, Ijust, I can't thank you enough.
We were very blessed.
So Merry Christmas.
Remember that Jesus is thereason for the season.
And I pray that he grants youand your family, many blessings
this season.
And into 2025.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (04:06):
So without further ado.
Here's Amy Perrier.
Matt (04:10):
All right, back by popular demand, live from the Dalebanks
delivery rig practicallyranching take two or part two.
Welcome my wife, Amy Perrier.
Round of applause, please fromthe studio audience.
Are you having fun yet?
Are you going to talk?
(04:31):
These things don't go well.
It's just the host speaking.
Amy (04:35):
Um, yeah, like if I, if my brain can stop criticizing or
being critical, trying to decidewhat you need to say, I can come
up with what I want to say.
Matt (2) (04:44):
Is that what you do on every podcast?
It's question.
Why is my husband asking thatquestion?
Doesn't he know what a good hostwould do?
Matt (04:59):
I have that effect on people.
It happens after about 50minutes into it, you'll feel
comfortable.
And the last 15 minutes will goreally well.
So Where are we and why are wehere?
Amy (05:13):
We're in the Ozarks but Different reason than some
people come to the Ozarks, butwe're delivering bulls and
celebrating our anniversary
Matt (05:24):
Oh, you know, that's the real reason the bull thing is
just a ploy to be able to have aromantic date through four
states and a 12 and a half hourroad trip And see the beautiful
Ozarks of Arkansas Missouri,Northeast, Oklahoma.
Amy (05:42):
Every girl's dream.
Yeah.
Matt (05:44):
Well it comes right down to it's why you married me.
Yeah.
Every girl's dream
Amy (05:53):
But my own still
Matt (05:59):
a little shocked that Tom and Carolyn Perrier allowed
that.
Maybe we just didn't ask easierto, uh, beg forgiveness than ask
permission.
So 23 years.
Amy (06:14):
Yes.
Matt (06:15):
Happy the anniversary, honey.
Amy (06:16):
Thank you.
You too.
Matt (06:18):
What is the secret, Amy?
What's the secret to 23 years ofhappy marriage in today's day
and age?
Amy (06:27):
Well, you would say low expectations.
Not
Matt (06:34):
my, not my
Matt (2) (06:35):
joke or story, but I still love it.
Amy (06:38):
Yeah.
Matt (2) (06:39):
You wouldn't say low expectations is how you got
through it.
Come on.
Amy (06:44):
Occasionally yes.
Blind hopefulness.
Matt (06:49):
Blind optimism and hopefulness.
First thing was you didn't knowyou were coming back to the
ranch.
At the time you thought we weregonna be a suburban Kansas City
yuppie type household, right?
Amy (07:04):
As a yuppie, but just, yeah.
I mean we, we didn't know at thetime we were gonna come back.
I mean, I'm sure that was alwayskind of a, in the back of our
minds as a possibility, but Ifigured we'd always end up in
the country at some point, atleast.
Yeah.
Matt (07:21):
Just thought we'd have 40 acres of country, not
Amy (07:29):
a few horses and a dog.
to take care of.
Not five kids in the car.
Lots of your other women.
I call them your cows to takecare of.
Matt (07:44):
Yes.
They all require some care,
Amy (07:49):
but it's good.
I love it.
Wouldn't change it.
Matt (07:53):
So there's lots of ranching couples that might be
listening to this, even thoughthe other half better half may
not be listening.
listening simultaneously.
If you were telling a younglady, let's say, who was about
(08:13):
to be a ranch wife, if you'reabout to give her a piece of
advice, what would you tell her?
So that she too can get theopportunity to celebrate 23
years of marital bliss, driving79 miles an hour down interstate
through the Ozarks with bullstrailing along behind.
(08:33):
Kind
Amy (08:36):
of like motherhood and being a new mom.
All at the same time.
So it's kind of hard to separatethem, but, um, I'd just say it
gets easier.
(08:57):
Times, times make up for it.
There's a lot of blessings thatcome with the hard.
Makes
Matt (09:16):
the good times seem all that much better.
Challenging times.
I think that's one thing,whether it be marriage, or just
working the land, nature andmarkets as a partner, i.
(09:37):
e.
much control of either.
What's good.
Take the good with the bad.
Cherish the good when it'sthere, knowing that it may not
be there forever.
B, not to get too philosophical.
Maybe that's why farmers andranchers, couple, farming and
(10:01):
ranching couples seem to stickit out.
Maybe beat the average comparedto, society in general.
Because we know it's not alwaysgoing to be rainbows and
unicorns.
Sunshine.
And we know that we can getthrough, as you said, do the
hard.
Amy (10:25):
You learn pretty quickly that you, you don't have a lot
of control over really,especially, like you said, the
weather, and it applies to life.
Then people realize, branchinginside, inside of things, that
(10:51):
you don't have a lot of control,control certain aspects, and so,
that's easier to apply that tothe rest of your life,
parenting, or, you know,whatever else it may be, so that
I think you get thatperspective.
Maybe a little sooner than youwould in a different type of
lifestyle.
(11:11):
Cause it seems when you don'thave those other factors, it
seems like you have things undercontrol or that you can control
things more.
And then when you realize youcan't, it's a lot harder to deal
with.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Matt (11:25):
Yeah, I agree.
What was the most challengingthing besides just the lack of
control?
What was the thing thatsurprised you the most?
About moving back to DalebanksAngus and starting our life in
production ag.
I think
Amy (11:48):
the thing that's the hardest, sounds kind of odd, but
it's also a blessing too.
I mean the fact that as a mom,you've got little kids, you as a
rancher, it sounds kind of odd.
Both gone a lot and there a lot.
(12:10):
You have, you have long days,long hours, work, Saturday,
Sunday, you know, seven days aweek.
Yet, you're also O there forlunch or you need to run it,
take a kiddo with you.
you know, that part of it, youknow, I often thought, well,
(12:32):
yes, you know, you're gone alot, but at the same time,
you're also accessible to somedegree.
Whereas if you worked at a nineto five job way, you wouldn't be
accessible in that aspect.
You'd be home in the eveningsand be done with work and be
home on the weekends maybe, but.
Matt (12:51):
So you're saying it's better that I would come in for
lunch or drop into check emailsor whatever I had to do before
iPhones and then be gone orwould it?
Amy (13:04):
I'm just saying there's, there's, there's good and bad.
I mean, it was hard that youhave long hours.
Um, I'm home sometimes you'restill working, you know, on the
computer or whatever.
but also I always try to temperthat with the benefit or the
Positive aspect that, you know,you're still, you were still
(13:27):
accessible or around when you,you know, if I really needed
help with something, which wouldbe different than a non ranch
job, maybe.
Matt (13:36):
So you came back with a pretty good feel for what a
farmer slash rancher type'shours and, uh, ability to be
home would be like because yougrew up in it.
Amy (13:54):
Yeah, my dad was a farmer.
And a hog.
He raised hogs.
Matt (14:00):
How in the world does someone like Carolyn Graham, who
moved back to the ranch aftergrowing up in the pavement of
Kansas City when she married dadand they moved back, how do any
of these husbands or wives whomarry a spouse who is the farmer
(14:22):
rancher, how do they get used toit?
Amy (14:25):
You'll have to ask her.
She'll have to be the next onthe road.
There you
Matt (14:28):
go.
I mean, it's, it was challengingenough for you and me.
You grew up in it.
Matt (3) (14:34):
I can't
Matt (14:34):
imagine not understanding, not seeing this every day as a
kid in your formative years andthen being thrust into it.
We've got friends, many friends,both husbands or wives who
married the farmer rancher andare now coming back to this
life.
And it's, it's a shock.
(14:55):
It's, it's a little bit of ashock.
Amy (15:02):
Yeah, it was an adjustment even for us.
You know, we had Ava, she was ayear when we came back.
And we lived in Platte City, sowe were, you know, I worked in
Kansas City, so, things werevery accessible as far as stores
and restaurants and, you know,run here if you need something
kind of thing.
so that aspect of, of both justaccessibility of things and
(15:27):
Also, I think the biggestadjustment, you know, at the age
that we were at, the biggestadjustment was just the fact
that we couldn't go and wecouldn't go wherever we wanted
to on the weekend.
You know, you were workingweekends.
That was, that was probably thebiggest adjustment.
Matt (15:45):
Unless we were delivering bulls.
Amy (15:47):
Unless we were delivering bulls.
Matt (15:49):
We joke about this, but at least our family, and I think
nearly every ranching family, isat least some level of this.
We feel guilty if we do leavethe place
Amy (16:01):
without a purpose, a ranch.
So
Matt (16:03):
therefore we have to have a purpose.
We have to have an excuse.
Oh, we've got to go to thismeeting or, oh, we've got, I
mean, every vacation growing upthat I took involved one to five
stops at Angus operationsthroughout the country in order
for us to be able to be gone fora week.
Each summer we had to go look atgenetics.
(16:25):
We had to go look at calves outof the next circle.
We're going to use or whatever.
And I think that that's notuncommon.
We have this guilt ridden lifethat we can't really actually
just leave and go somewhereunless the business is calling
us to do
Amy (16:43):
it.
Matt (16:43):
Which again, not normal today, especially.
Amy (16:48):
Yeah.
You've gotten better at that.
Your parents have gotten betterat that.
But yeah, there's always gottabe a reason to leave and that
might just be your
Matt (17:03):
Yeah, probably so.
So is that why we don't retire?
Seriously, I mean, most farmersand ranchers, they just, I
think, part of it is we don'thave a hobby, and so what do we
do at age 70?
Amy (17:20):
Yeah, I think it's your lifestyle, so it's hard to give
that up, because that's allyou've known and all you've
done, and everything, everythingrevolves around it.
It's not just a job.
?? (17:30):
I
Amy (17:31):
think it's part of it, and having purpose, you know,
continuing to have purpose isimportant.
Matt (17:40):
But it also, again, and I'm not, this is not a self
reflection solely, but I didhave somebody a few weeks ago
tell me that the reason thatthis quote unquote next
generation won't rise up andtake hold, and this wasn't just
in agriculture, this wasbusiness wide and culture wide
and even talking about communityservice organizations, the
(18:03):
reason this quote unquote nextgeneration won't take hold is
the old guys and gals won't getthe heck out of the way.
And their thought was becauseBecause small town rural
communities, often run by farmerand rancher types, small
business owners, etc.
Because those boards are full of65 to 80 year old men and women,
(18:31):
it's not that the youngergeneration doesn't want to
contribute, it's just that theydon't want to contribute when
they're still being run by theirgrandparents.
Amy (18:42):
Yeah, I think that, I think that's probably the case with
every generation, thattransition.
I mean.
Mom talks about groups thatshe's, organizations that she's
was in that, you know, it washard to get the old guard to
either change or move on so theycould do with the things that
(19:04):
they wanted to do.
maybe our age or the generationa little bit younger are a
little more, even moreindependent to do things their
own way.
And I see benefit of both.
You can figure out how tocollaborate with the older
(19:26):
generation.
Then you can learn a lot, butthey also need to learn how to
collaborate with you and causethey can learn a lot from, or we
can learn a lot from the youngergeneration.
So I think that's just achallenge probably across the
board.
Rations.
And I think part of it too isour age, you know, we're kind of
(19:49):
in that middle zone where a lotof people didn't come back to
small towns and come back torural America.
You know, there's.
You know, that age group becausethey grew up in the eighties and
things were really rough and,you know, maybe at the time that
they would have been cominghome, things weren't, in such a
(20:11):
place that they could besupported on the ranch that, um,
we just didn't have a lot ourage.
And now there is a younger groupand see, it feels like there's a
larger portion of, you know, 25to 35, 40 age kiddos.
that are, I guess they'rekiddos, kiddos to me, are coming
(20:31):
back to the rural areas.
So I think maybe because ofthat, because of that gap, it's
a global transition, um, andthey just do things differently.
So you know, the, the standardmonthly or once a week meeting
is not always their, theirthing.
So I think there will be somechanges that will be made in
(20:53):
order for those organizations orgroups to continue with that age
group.
The
Matt (20:58):
truth of it is.
Any other industry, you and Iare 51 years old, any other
industry we are approaching, ifnot already the old guard.
And yet nearly any communitymeeting we go to industry
meetings, sometimes average orthe younger crowd to the people
(21:24):
who are at said meetings.
And so here we are talking aboutthey, the older generation.
And when in actuality we oughtto be the older generation,
we've got a lot.
Listen to this podcast andthey're laughing their tails off
as we talk about the oldergeneration.
We are the older generation, um,in most aspects, but you're
(21:48):
right.
Just like with nearly anysituation, there is a balance
somewhere that probably bothends of the extremes need to
give a little.
And, um, it's hard after, ifthis is like you said, all
you've done for your entirelife.
Uh, it's hard to relinquish thatcontrol or move on or turn the
(22:12):
reins over or what else.
And fortunately, in ourbusiness, our family, mom and
dad have been very good aboutseeing that there are
opportunities when a generationis interested and can and wants
to take a set of tasks or takeownership or whatever else.
(22:34):
but it's still not easy.
It's easier.
But we've all seen and heard andmaybe people that are sitting
here listening today are in themidst of a situation where
somebody our age, 50, 60 yearsold is still not able to make a
decision for the family businessbecause grandma and grandpa or
mom and dad or whoever hasn'tgiven them that opportunity.
(22:56):
And it's that, man, that's riskyand challenging.
And why would the subsequentgenerations want to come back
and subject themselves to 40years of before they even get to
make a management decision.
There's
Amy (23:14):
definitely a balance of the generation coming up has to feel
some ownership or decisionmaking to basically what they're
(23:36):
sacrificing is worth it becausethey are sacrificing a lot to be
there and parents haven't beenopen to that, you know, allowing
you to take more and moreresponsibility.
And me, me even, even though I'mnot a daily part of the ranch,
um, makes the, the sacrifice,you know.
(23:59):
That you're making worth it oryou see the road ahead I guess a
little bit better than if youwere not all those things
Matt (24:08):
and I'll even Be a little too Transparent here, but there
were times when we moved back ayear two years three years into
it even though mom and dadImmediately started giving us
Some of that autonomy, you knowthe day I moved back I May say I
(24:32):
basically got to take over thecustomer service, marketing, and
PR part of our business justbecause that was something that
I'd had a lot of training withthrough the Angus Association
and life and what have you andit was talent or something I had
interest in.
And then soon after the geneticselection decisions and mating
(24:54):
decisions and things like that,um, you know, I got to start
doing that right off the bat andeven still there were times when
I.
just throw up my hands indisgust because I didn't feel
like I was good at everythingelse I was supposed to be doing.
I guess I just bring that up incase there are people out there
(25:15):
questioning why they ever cameback to the family business,
farm, ranch, whatever the casemay be, or to prepare them if
they are getting ready to, it'snot going to be any different
than any other job.
The only big difference is, it'sharder to change.
You just either quit or make asignificant change in your
(25:40):
duties when it's your familybusiness.
And I don't know that we canever quantify how much more
difficult it is when your bossis your dad, or your grandpa, or
your grandmother, and thatbusiness partner is your spouse,
your in law, cousins, orwhatever, uh, that's a whole
(26:08):
extra layer that I don't thinkthat any amount of college can
do.
or extension meetings, orresearch can ever prepare you
for.
We all learn how to network, weall learn how to get along with
our boss and our co workers, andwe read books and hear podcasts
(26:28):
about these things, uh,workplace, environment, culture,
and building that positiveacquirement.
It spills over to the Christmastable, or Thanksgiving dinner,
or whatever else, especiallywhen it's maybe in a negative
light.
It's tough, and it is somethingthat we have to talk about, and
(26:51):
we have to recognize, and wehave to admit that, once again,
it's not a normal businessculture and employee employer
relationship.
It's stressful.
Amy (27:05):
I just read something this morning that, um, talked about
that the thoughts of youth arelong, long thoughts.
Here, so I just can read it, um,and I, I think, I get it.
Get that in the sense of, youknow, when you're in your
twenties and you're trying tomake decisions about your life,
(27:25):
you know, you're thinking aboutthe end, like, where am I going
to end up?
And I need to do all thesethings to be able to end up
there.
And I think when you come backto the ranch, you know, as the
youth, as the younger person,you're seeing all these things
that will, in order for me toget to where I want to be, we've
got to make all these changesand we got to add this or we got
to do that.
(27:46):
And you're, you're Thinkingabout that long term view.
whereas, you know, thegenerations that, that, the
generation that's there at thetime, they've already, they
already know what they've doneto prepare for their end time
and they don't feel like some,you know, they need to make all
these changes necessarily, or atleast not as fast as quickly as
(28:08):
maybe the youth that comes backwants to do, um, because, you
know, they've kind of laid outtheir plan and they, they feel
like they're on the trajectorythat they need to be.
for their plan.
Um, so, you know, I can see asthe person, you know, as, as
(28:28):
we're getting to be thegeneration that's going to be
the older generation and havingour kids come back, um, you
know, that's if they want to,yeah, that, uh, you know, that
time span goes quickly.
And so now you're alreadythinking, well, what changes are
they gonna, they gonna want tomake?
You have to.
You have to be open to that andyour parents have been, you have
(28:50):
to be open to that and allowingthose changes to be made
because,, it does cause, forone, it's just too much conflict
if you're not at least open todiscussing, you know, it doesn't
mean I have to make all of thechanges, but if you're not at
least open to discussing andfiguring it out, how it's going
to work for all of you, um, itjust isn't going to work or it's
(29:14):
going to make it very difficult.
And like you said, that's adifferent dynamic.
When it's a family businessversus just working for someone,
that if you're not happy withwhat they're accepting from you,
then you can move on to adifferent job.
whereas when it's your familybusiness, you've got to work it
(29:34):
out.
You've got to figure out a wayto work it out, to, uh, keep
things going.
Matt (29:40):
So we're going to play.
Would you rather, would yourather have the situation where
you come back as a young personcouple to a farmer ranch.
You're a young kid that's notmarried, uh, to a farmer ranch
and spend the next 30 years withfamily that doesn't want to give
(30:05):
you, they want you to learn alot from them and you do learn a
lot, but until they finally passaway or fully retire or whatever
the case may be, you never getthat opportunity to make
management decisions untilyou're 50 or 60 or have to come
back immediately because of atragedy and the family farm or
(30:26):
ranch is going to end if youdon't come back and save it and
you got nobody to learn from.
Both tough situations, luckilywe've not had to do either one
ourselves, but which is which istougher?
Amy (30:42):
Oh that's hard, um I, I think I would choose the, even
though it would be verydifficult, I think I would
choose the one where you werethere even if you didn't get
Make them in and managementdecisions because at least
you've had that time.
There's so many benefits tobeing with your family, working
with your family, alwaysoperation because you can change
(31:07):
your mindset.
Life is a lot about yourmindset.
So if you can, you can changeyour mindset and look at the
benefits and get to drug down bythe negatives of not being able
to do everything that you want,decision standpoint, et cetera.
(31:28):
As if you don't come back andyou're still.
Suddenly thrust into it, to takeover and be missed out on that,
those benefits of being inintegration with your family.
Matt (31:47):
But, play devil's advocate, as I so often do, with
you, you're not encumbered bybiases, you're not encumbered by
the way we've always donethings.
You have a clean palette, andyou get to do it the way that in
2024, whenever you came back.
(32:11):
Technology and the currentknowledge and understanding, you
know, you're not biased.
And I've, I've seen both.
I've seen folks and, and theright people making the
decisions can make either onework.
And both could share thechallenges, but both could share
the opportunities that they hadbecause of that situation too.
?? (32:35):
Yeah.
Matt (32:36):
I mean, I just, I bring that up because so often I see
farms and ranches that are stilldoing things the way they were
in the 1950s.
Not because they don't know thetechnologies are there, but just
because two, three generationsAll had the blinders on because
the generation before them toldthem you can't do it any other
(32:58):
way than the way we do.
There's good and bad.
Amy (33:03):
Yeah, there's uh, a lot to be said to being just open to
discuss and learn from eachother.
Because I think that, I thinkthat the businesses or the
ranches that are making changesor at least, you know, open to
that are the ones that arecontinuing at a successful
(33:27):
level.
I mean, not that you can't, notthat you can't survive doing
things the same way that you'vedone for years, um, but I think,
you know, the ranches that weknow that are really growing and
making changes and bringing,getting their youth to come
(33:49):
back, um, are ones that arewilling to, to allow that to
happen.
All
Matt (33:57):
right, since we had so much fun with that round, we'll
do another would you rather.
Would you rather.
have a ranch that hashistorically supported one or
maybe two family members, zerokids who want to return to the
family farm or ranch, or fivekids who all have to come back,
(34:21):
want to come back to the farm orranch.
Not any family in particular.
Just
Amy (34:27):
preparing for the worst and Worst or best case scenario.
Yeah.
Definitely.
would take the all five versusnone.
But no pressure for any of ourkids to come back.
Matt (34:38):
How do you make it work?
Amy (34:39):
Um.
Matt (34:40):
You got competition for land, from outside of
agriculture, from withinagriculture.
You can't make, overnight, youcan't make a business into
something that can support 500percent more salaries and health
(35:00):
insurances and everything else.
So, I mean.
Amy (35:04):
Well, hopefully.
It wouldn't happen all at once.
I don't think it could happenall at once for one thing.
Matt (35:08):
Yeah.
Amy (35:09):
Um, we have friends that, you know, they, they've required
their kids to bring something tothe table.
You know, if you're going tocome back, you have to bring
some other sort of income.
Either, starting another aspectlike providing hunting services
or,, direct meat services or.
to bring additional businessinto the ranch.
(35:33):
they have to use theircreativity to come up with
something to help financially.
So
Matt (35:41):
you either create an enterprise or you have an off
farm job or something to payyour own way through additional
revenue or through outsideincome.
Amy (35:53):
Yeah, I think that, you know, you wouldn't have to maybe
do that with one or two but ifyou're going to have five kids
come back, that's the only way.
You're going to be able to doit.
You're going to expand yourbusiness.
Matt (36:06):
And for those who don't know our story, the way we did
it, and I'm not saying this isright, wrong or indifferent, but
we had two non family employees.
In addition to my mom and dad,we had one of those two, the
longest term employee who took ajob elsewhere.
Dad called asked if I knew ofanybody that might want the job.
(36:31):
And it got us thinking thatmaybe it was the deal.
for us to transition into ranchwithout having to bring in a
bunch of new revenue right offthe bat.
We came in as paid labor.
We started working toward agriship and things like that.
(36:56):
And there are challenges withthat, because it is hard to look
at it from a business standpointwhen you're doing the same work
that you were.
Also, it was a great way for meto get in shape.
And learn how to do some of thethings.
(37:17):
Things that were going on that Ididn't even realize because it
wasn't happening in the summerwhen I was working growing up or
it wasn't happening on theweekends or spring break or
whenever I actually saw thethings happening.
I thought I knew everything thatwas going on in Dalebanks Angus
and it turns out I didn't knowsquat.
I learned a lot right off thebat and it was a good way to do
it.
(37:37):
I don't know if I'd do it anydifferent but it's not, not for
everybody.
We're all kids our age that areteens and 20 year olds.
Now, how will agriculture lookdifferent for them than it did
for us when we were 30?
(37:59):
When we
Amy (38:01):
You know, when we came back, the, the thing that was
kind of starting to happen.
was sharing our story, you know,letting the world know I had
some opportunities right off thebat to do that different views
(38:21):
or videos or thing, you know,commercial things like that.
That was kind of a new thing.
Like people weren't doing thatto the extent that they are now
by any means., so that was kindof the new focus, just the day
(38:42):
to day ranching aspects.
so I think once our kids comeback, that'll just be kind of a
normal part of it is, the socialmedia part of it, especially if
you're selling anything direct.
But even standpoint, sharingwhat you do is just kind of part
(39:02):
of the job now, I think, or itcan be, doesn't have to be.
But, just all the technologythat's going to be available to
them through AI and.
And you know, we just kind ofget to, to see what that's going
to look like, but, virtualfencing and, we definitely had
it easier from a laborstandpoint than when your
(39:25):
parents came back, not that youdidn't or don't continue to work
very hard or employees, workvery hard physically, but the
things that you do on a dailybasis are different than And I
think that will continue toevolve, even though we keep a
lot of the same traditions, westill, or actually it was kind
(39:46):
of a new transition when we cameback, you know, using horses
and, the way we have, thosethings may not change, but just
some of the other technology andthings that they can wise on
will be different.
Matt (40:06):
I think you're right.
I mean, the technology thing,everybody talks about it, but I
think, you know, We did bringsomething up there that's kind
of ironic or a paradox.
We went, when I moved back,because I liked using horses,
some would say we went backwardsand we went from moving cows
(40:29):
quite often, or at least to alarge extent, with a pickup and
a four wheeler, leading them inthe four wheelers, to back where
we used horses a lot, nearlyevery day.
Those first few years.
And again, we probably couldhave done it more efficiently
from a time standpoint, but itwas something that I, it was a
(40:52):
reason that I wanted to be backon the ranch was so I could be
horseback.
And so here we were supposed tofollow the rules and use
advanced technology.
And yet we took a step back intime and went back to use
horses, drag calves instead ofrunning through a shoot and
(41:12):
things like that.
So And I, I know that it was theright decision economically, but
um, that is one thing that Ithink is important for both the
younger and the older generationto recognize is, even though
we're flesh of your flesh, wemay like things different, or
(41:36):
like things done differently,and that has to be okay within
reason.
Uh, again, that's That's wherethat give and take comes, and
luckily, Dad to accept that andthat being fine, and I think
we're probably all better forit.
And our employees at the time,our employee, liked it better
(41:56):
too, and so, what we did.
Dad always had to be driven byadvances in technology,
sometimes a return to a moretraditional approach in a
business might be good.
Amy (42:10):
Well, I think it's kind of a quality of life.
Decision.
Um, you know, that's somethingyou enjoyed and our employees
and your dad didn't necessarilywhen he, you know, when he came
back, he, he's not a big horseperson.
So, that just, just havingsatisfied employees, you
(42:31):
included is important.
And so that was, you know, eventhough it wasn't necessarily his
choice, he made a good choice byallowing.
Um, just because you want to be,it's hard work.
You want to be doing it in a, ina way that you enjoy the most
(42:55):
that you can, you know,obviously all your jobs and
tasks, you're not going toenjoy, but those that you can do
in such a way that it's, uh,that it's enjoyable is also
important.
Matt (43:07):
So we keep bringing up the fact that mom and dad, large
part, we feel like did it right.
And, and, um, made it as easy ofa transition as it could be and
continues to be for us from abusiness standpoint, a cultural
standpoint.
(43:28):
Why, why did they or why doother families struggle?
And, and it's still a struggle.
I mean, it's any time, even inthe most perfect estate planning
and generational transition andeverything else is still going
to be a transition and changecan be hard.
And it's not.
(43:51):
Is that such a challenge for agenerator?
Amy (44:00):
I mean, I don't, I think it's different in every
situation.
But, you know, maybe it comesback down to that control
aspect.
Because there are so many thingsthat you don't have control of.
You know, it's scary to let goof, things that have worked.,
Even though sometimestransitioning things that have
(44:22):
worked well into something thatmight work even better.
you know, is good.
It's sometimes hard to see thatwhen something's working well,
why change it?
Um, and I have control overthis.
So why would I let that controlgo?
Because I have so many otheraspects as a rancher that I
don't have control over.
So, I think that could play apart in it.
(44:44):
And just, personalities andcommunication, you know, you're
not, you know, you're not alwaysthe best communicator.
You know, we have a rule.
Your parents kind of had a rulethat you have to go and work for
someone else first before youcome back to the ranch.
And I think that's an importantstep for both of you.
if, if grandpa and dad neverworked for anyone else, they
(45:12):
maybe didn't learn some of thoseyou know, interpersonal or
communication skills that youwould learn from working for
someone else.
you just kind of resort back to.
always functional, maybe alittle dysfunctional
relationships and ways ofrelating.
Whereas if you're working forsomeone else, you're forced to
kind of face some of that inyour own self of how you
(45:34):
communicate and how you interactwith people or what amount of
control you're willing to giveup.
And so, that may play a part init.
So I think it's again, it'sjust, it's different in every
situation, but ultimately, youknow, you have to balance what's
best for you.
and what's best for your family.
Matt (45:56):
what's the hardest thing about being married to your
business partner who probablyputs in more hours than most
business partners would and thenturns around and can't turn it
off and she or he gets back tothe house.
(46:21):
How do you deal with that?
Now we're just talking the samegeneration.
Amy (46:28):
Yeah,
Matt (46:28):
not worrying about mother's father's in laws
outlaws
Amy (46:33):
Well, it's it's taken 20 20 years to figure out
Matt (46:39):
basically you say you don't know yet
Amy (46:41):
No, I'm saying I've gotten a lot better at it You know it
because it is it is challengingThat it's always about I mean
work is a is a big factor in ourmarriage all the time and it's
always there It's always outsideour door You know So I talked
(47:02):
earlier about it was nice tohave the flexibility of you
being able to come in and out ofthe house.
But sometimes that's hard toobecause
Matt (47:09):
look at all those Airstreams, all my wife wants is
an Airstream trailer.
Speaking of
Amy (47:15):
getting away from work, we can get an Airstream and then
you won't think about it.
Um, but
Matt (3) (47:21):
I think I'd think about it more anyway, proceed
Amy (47:24):
anyways.
You know, sometimes when youcome into the house, you're in
your work zone and if you don'tsee.
The work zone happening in thehouse, you know,
Matt (47:37):
I start knocking heads.
You
Amy (47:39):
start knocking heads, which isn't always about
Matt (47:42):
literally for anybody that's going to call social
services on.
Amy (47:46):
Yeah.
Why are we sitting?
Why are we, you know, and not somuch for me, but for the kids,
but then also.
So if I'm, you know, not doingthings the way you think I
should be doing them, the bossman comes out and definitely
been some conflict in thataspect.
But, otherwise, just, you cominghome and thinking me thinking
that you're home for the eveningor home for the day.
(48:09):
And then it's a wall in about anhour.
So I got to go do this for, youknow, another hour and then I
got to come back.
You know, so that was a hardaspect for me at first too is,
okay, when are you actually homefor the evening?
You know, when are you done forthe day?
Or I got it.
No, because then you're gettingon the computer.
But I also feel like I figuredout how to maybe communicate
(48:35):
that with you and better when itfrustrates me or You know, like
yesterday you wanted to deliverbulls on Thanksgiving and try to
make it on our way to a familyThanksgiving and it really
wasn't working out.
Now the road's bouncing these,my voices.
Not,
Matt (48:53):
not yet.
We're almost
Matt (3) (48:56):
there, but not yet.
Amy (48:57):
But, uh, yeah, you know, I think you've gotten a better,
you've gotten better atlistening when I kind of subtly
suggest maybe we just don't needto deliver bulls on
Thanksgiving.
Maybe we can skip a day and youcan take a little break and be
refreshed.
Fresh for your long trip today,and you, you know, that probably
would have been a 30 minutediscussion several years ago
(49:18):
and, well,
Matt (49:18):
I probably would have told you you were wrong.
Amy (49:20):
Yeah.
And now you're a little more,cause you
Matt (49:22):
were,
Amy (49:23):
I was wrong.
Matt (49:23):
But from a dollars and cents, efficiency standpoint,
you were wrong,
Amy (49:33):
we could
Matt (49:34):
have saved a good Yeah.
Yeah.
Probably 45, 50 minutes of drivetime if we added both the dual,
yeah, for a six hour trip.
No, you were right, and I thinkmaybe you've gotten a little
better at being direct or moredirect than you used to be and
hopefully I have gotten betterat, um, hearing you when you
(49:58):
subtly say, that's a terribleidea.
What the hell is wrong with you?
What do you mean you want todeliver some of these three
people's bulls on Thanksgivingand ruin our dinner?
Welcome to Matt and Amy'stherapy session.
Um, join us on the couch as wesort through our own problems
(50:18):
and make thousands of peoplelisten in.
Amy (50:23):
Cause we know you
Matt (50:24):
people have had them too.
Amy (50:25):
Yeah.
It's definitely a process, um,an added dimension, an added
marital dimension to, you know,having a work business, family
business.
Yeah,
Matt (50:41):
I, because I don't know any other way, I can't compare
and contrast, but when I saythat farmers and ranchers and
their families are not normal,it may be more of a small
business owners and theirfamilies, because if you own a
restaurant or a hotel, orwhatever else, you're probably
(51:03):
bringing the same stuff home andyou never can get away from it.
But the fact of the matter isthat small business owners are
definitely in the minoritytoday, business owners of any
kind.
And you can't just clock out,turn your phone off, turn your
mind off and say, well, youknow, whoever just took over for
(51:25):
me on The next shift can dealwith that because it doesn't
matter to me.
It still matters and it mattersnot only to the person who is
stressed about it or thinkingabout it or figuring out that
there's a more efficient way ofdoing this and all we have to do
is work on Thanksgiving.
(51:46):
It also, oh, I think I justmissed my turn.
I did just miss my turn.
Um, it also matters to everybodyaround, the spouse, the kids,
and that's When things get realis when, uh, it starts getting
too extreme.
Yeah.
(52:07):
It's,
Amy (52:09):
uh, you know, that's, that is one challenge when you're
asked about challenges of beinga ranch wife.
Um, just explaining to peoplewhat you do as a ranch wife is
very difficult.
Um, you know, the friends thatare also ranch wives, you know,
we kind of joke about it.
You know, your day is, and Iwork all day.
(52:30):
I ranch too, but I don't workfull time off the ranch, but I
feel like I have a job as aranch wife because, you know,
your day is never the same andyou never really know what your
day is going to bring because itis a business and there are
things that come up that youbasically are an employee that
(52:54):
you have to help deal with, youknow, or it changes what you do
in some capacity or what youplan to do for the day.
Um, and
Matt (53:02):
Or if you have kids and the person that's working on the
ranch, A, doesn't even considerthe fact that they probably
could or should be helping outgetting kids shuttled or picked
up or watched when they're sickor whatever else, and B, in
(53:22):
their defense, maybe flat outcan't because cows are
synchronized to be bred todayand tomorrow and that's gonna be
all they can think about and dotoday and tomorrow.
Regardless of every other, uh,unforeseen circumstance with
sick kids who are home orwhatever else.
(53:44):
is coming about.
Amy (53:45):
Yeah, it's kind of that yin and the yang or that good and
the bad of the flexibility thatyou have.
Um, because some days you dohave that flexibility and of
helping out with the kids andsome days you definitely do not.
And so, yeah.
Matt (54:02):
I remember vividly walking in one time thinking that I was
going to be able to really makeyour day because I was going to
help with young Ava or somethingfor 30 minutes.
And you told me, you know,sometimes I wish you would just,
(54:24):
when you walk out that door inthe morning, not come back until
after dark.
Because then I know I don't haveto worry about you.
Don't worry about changingthings as you show up for 30
minutes thinking that you'rehelping and you're actually
completely upsetting the trip.
If I just knew that you weregoing to be gone, it'd be
easier.
I'm like, oh, didn't see thatcoming.
(54:44):
You're welcome, honey.
I thought I was doing you afavor.
I'm sure that
Amy (54:49):
was a day I didn't get much sleep the night before.
Probably.
Matt (54:52):
Probably.
Because of Ava.
Amy (54:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Because of baby Ava.
It's
Matt (54:56):
all Ava's fault.
It's that uncertainty.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot
Amy (55:00):
of uncertainty.
No schedule at all.
Matt (55:04):
I probably quoted him before.
The great western cowboy poetlaureate, Baxter Black, on an
airplane one time, sitting nextto a young, attractive lady, and
she saw his wild rag and hiscowboy hat, and she asked him if
he was a real cowboy.
(55:25):
Yes, man, I am.
Always wondered, what do cowboysactually do?
Get up every morning, watch thesun come up, and wait for snow.
And
Matt (3) (55:41):
that's kind of it.
And that's hard to deal with.
I
Matt (55:44):
mean, we keep going back to the unknowns, but there's a
lot of them.
There's a lot of them.
And as good as we should be atdealing with change and the
unknowns, we just move fromcrisis to crisis sometimes in
agriculture, it seems.
Like, we live for the crisis.
In
Amy (56:03):
some aspects, yes.
I mean, you're a planner, andyou have everything planned out.
Matt (56:07):
Yeah, which is not a good thing.
Amy (56:09):
Sometimes that backfires.
If, uh, if things don't go asplanned, it's sometimes, it's
like the low expectations.
It's harder to, uh, deal with itsometimes when you have a plan
and it doesn't work out.
Whereas I'm less of a planner.
I've become more of a plannerthan I used to be, but, I've
(56:29):
kinda, I'm more of a go with theflow kind of person, um, which
is good and bad too.
So, it's, branching is really alot like parenthood.
I mean, and that's basicallywhat you have is
?? (56:43):
life.
Amy (56:45):
Cattle and kids, you know, they all need when they need
something, they need somethingright away and you can't put it
off.
So you have kids and uh, severalpastures full of cattle that
have to have whatever they needwhen they need it.
Matt (57:03):
We started this podcast comparing my other women.
Amy (57:08):
Yeah.
And now I'm saying that they'reactually your kids.
Now they're actually my kids.
Yup.
Matt (57:16):
The parallels of cattle production and family This
really is like sitting on thecouch.
Hang out your shingle, honey.
People will be calling in forthe next one for advice from Dr.
Amy.
Amy (57:32):
Well, maybe it's Dr.
Matt.
Maybe you're helping me.
Matt (57:38):
Well, I've been saying that for years.
What a blessing I am to you.
I'm just glad you're finallyrecognizing it.
Amy (57:50):
We make a good team most days if we're not on opposite
sides.
Matt (57:55):
Well, and honestly, sometimes the best teams are
constantly, not constantly, butare not hesitant to help their
teammate do better.
Amy (58:06):
Yeah.
Matt (58:09):
That doesn't come without, as you said, communication and,
uh,
Amy (58:15):
forgiveness.
There you
Matt (58:17):
go.
It Takes some of that.
All right.
We're 58 minutes into an hourlong podcast.
Any closing thoughts of wisdom?
gripes that you have about, thepodcast host slash business
(58:38):
partner slash father of yourchildren.
Amy (58:43):
Oh yeah.
Matt (58:45):
Oh yeah.
Amy (58:46):
No, I said, Oh no, I don't know.
23 years of, um, it's hard tosum up, but it's been a fun ride
and hopefully we'll keep going.
Matt (2) (58:57):
Hopefully the operative word of hopefully.
Oh, such optimism.
Wild optimism.
?? (59:08):
Again, low expectations.
Low
Matt (2) (59:10):
expectations.
That's what's gotten you thisfar.
Amy (59:13):
Yeah.
Just enjoy the present moment,you know.
Try not to worry too much aboutwhat's coming or what's
happened.
Just enjoy the present moment asmuch as you can.
Matt (2) (59:28):
It's impossible, honey.
I
Amy (59:29):
know, it's impossible for you.
That's,
Matt (59:31):
you just got to the reason that it's so hard to be a
farmer.
Farmer Rancher family is becauseyou're constantly worrying about
what's coming next.
Weather market risks, the taskat hand, the task that we have
(59:52):
that's coming up.
'cause you gotta prepare theequipment.
You gotta prepare the cattle,you gotta prepare the pens,
prepare your plan.
I mean that is the wild partabout watching Yellowstone.
Or any of the number of westernsthat people who don't get our
business think, Wow, wouldn'tthat be nice to just sit there
(01:00:16):
horseback and not have a care inthe world?
I've never gotten on a horse andnot had a care in the world.
I enjoy getting on a horse andit's therapeutic for me.
But I don't know any farmer orrancher ever in history who
doesn't have a care in theworld.
We're constantly thinking aboutwhat's coming up.
(01:00:37):
And as a result Result.
You know, we go, and I may havetalked about this, we go to the
Symphony and the Flint Hillsevery June, which this June is,
I guess gonna be the last one,but, so if you've got it on your
bucket list, make sure and go toSymphony and the Flint hills.org
and get your tickets.
Now,
?? (01:00:54):
there's a little plug.
We go
Matt (01:00:55):
to this symphony and there's a handful of ranchers
who maybe go every year, maybeyou're hosting it, maybe you're
volunteering or whatever else.
And for one day a year, at leastfor me, and I think other ranch.
One day a year, we get to standhere in the Flint Hills and see
(01:01:17):
things that we never ever see,that are there every single day.
But we see them, why?
Because there's 6, 500 of ourclosest suburban friends who
have driven hours, if nothalfway across the world, flown,
to come and witness this withus, and we see it through their
(01:01:37):
eyes.
Otherwise, when we see thatgrass, we see, okay.
Have we taken half of this andis it time to move this group of
cows tomorrow or next week ornext month?
Or we see this beautifulhillside that could use a better
(01:01:59):
pond right there or a waterdevelopment down the hill from
the pond or we could do a betterjob of grazing if we'd move the
mineral feeder here or whateverthe case may be.
We see it as a, as a part of ourbusiness, not as a legacy that's
so beautiful that it has nolimits.
I
Amy (01:02:20):
think anything from the outside looks way more romantic
than it does on the inside.
but it's there and you know,your capacity to appreciate it
is there because you taught methat because when we first got
married, I'm really, I mean, youknow, you, you were always good
at pointing out, Oh, look at thesky.
(01:02:42):
Look at the beautiful sunrise.
Look at the sunset.
You know, you were alwayspointing out those things.
And I, You know, I don't think Idid, didn't, I don't think I
didn't have an appreciation forthose things, but just your
awareness of them was greaterthan mine.
And so, it's definitely there,but yeah, being on the ranch
every day, it's gonna take thataway, you know, you do have to
(01:03:05):
have moments that remind you ofthat.
of where you live and why youlive there and the beauty around
you.
That's life.
I mean, everyone gets boggeddown with what's happening and
what they need to do and we allneed a reminder to just enjoy
the present moment becausethat's life too.
You know, the present moment isreally your life and you can't
(01:03:26):
constantly be worrying aboutwhat's to come because you're
going to miss your life if youdon't, if you do.
Matt (01:03:32):
I think tying it into the whole generation transition and
And should or shouldn't or canor can't we have the next
generation come in as a viablepart of this operation?
Not Dale Banks Angus, but justin general one's farm or ranch.
(01:03:53):
I don't know how we quantify iton a balance sheet, but we have
to recognize that there is valuein this land and the ability to
raise a family, carry on alegacy and have that that you
(01:04:16):
can't put a dollar amount on.
But once we get back in the heatof the moment, trying to pay the
bills and make the land paymentand all these other things, all
that intrinsic value, it doesn'tgo away, but it's doggone hard
(01:04:39):
to see.
I think, just what you said, wehave to figure out a way to
remind ourselves that we didn'tjust do this for the paycheck,
obviously.
We didn't just We did thisbecause we believe it's
important.
It's important to carry onfamily businesses in America.
(01:05:01):
It's important to feed ourneighbors in the world.
It's important to raise a familyand show them work ethic.
And all these things that wetalk about this podcast and
coffee shops across the west andmidwest and every place else.
(01:05:21):
But we have to remind ourselvessometimes that that's important.
It's important.
In fact, probably, for the goodof the country and of humanity,
we still have to keep doing thisto prove that it can be done.
And there's value.
Amy (01:05:42):
Well, your dad's favorite line is, we're not in the
business of raising cattle,we're in the business of raising
kids.
And your favorite line is, thebiggest export that we have from
rural America is our kids.
And that's the That's the dailyreminder for me of why we came
back and that,, you know, we hadAva at the time she was a year
and, you know, that was ourdecision was we want to raise
(01:06:04):
our kids in this lifestyle.
And, fortunately so far, knockon wood, it has turned out.
I mean, they, you know, havelearned some of
Matt (01:06:14):
Ava's friends that are listening to this might argue my
question.
Um,
Amy (01:06:18):
you know, they have,
Matt (01:06:19):
sorry, Ava
Amy (01:06:21):
developed the skills that we'd hoped that they would.
We develop, you know, work ethicand, persistence and drive and
also just appreciation for thethings around them, and not that
you can't get that off theranch, but for us that we knew
that that's where we wanted toraise our kids.
And so they are my reminder, Iguess, on a daily basis of why
(01:06:43):
we did it and why we continue todo it.
And so
Matt (01:06:53):
I rarely have a hard time closing out a podcast.
I don't know how to close thisone out.
You got to land the plane forme.
Amy (01:07:03):
You're
Matt (01:07:03):
my co pilot.
Amy (01:07:07):
to another 23 more years.
I don't know.
Matt (3) (01:07:10):
Just 23.
What's that make us?
74.
Amy (01:07:15):
Hopefully you've got
Matt (3) (01:07:16):
somebody in mind after that.
Amy (01:07:22):
Another podcast in 23 because I don't think you're
going to want to do another onewith me after that.
Matt (2) (01:07:27):
Great.
Matt (01:07:29):
I'm thinking podcasts will be done.
By 2047.
Amy (01:07:35):
Yeah, we'll be on to something else.
Matt (01:07:38):
But it's been fun for this one.
Amy (01:07:40):
Yep.
Matt (01:07:41):
So thanks for agreeing to finally do it.
I have tried once or maybe twicebefore.
And finally I had enough peoplethat demanded that Amy be a
guest.
And how dare I not have Amy as aguest.
That, uh, I finally said thiscan't continue.
Because they all think it's myfault.
Amy (01:08:03):
Thanks
Matt (01:08:03):
for doing it.
Amy (01:08:04):
They might regret their decision.
They're encouragement efforts.
Matt (01:08:06):
Not a chance, honey.
Not a chance.
There probably, there's going tobe a, uh, mass request for you
to take over as host,permanently.
Thanks for listening.
As always, we'll be back againin a couple weeks.
Thanks
Amy (01:08:24):
for having me.
Matt (01:08:25):
Tell your spouse thank you.
Make them tell you thank you.
See that it's a team effortthanks everybody.
Talk to you soon.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (01:08:37):
Thanks again for tuning in to
practically ranching.
If you're in the market forregistered females, we have a
nice set of spring open heifersthat will be ready to breed this
spring.
Emailme@mattperrier@dalebanks.com for
details.
And I'll get you the informationonce again, Merry Christmas.
God bless you all in 2025.
(01:08:58):
And we'll talk to you in a fewweeks.
Well, Merry Christmas.
And thanks for joining us forepisode 66 of practically
ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier.
Well, this one is long overduefrom several perspectives.
First off, it's been a month ornearly a month since our last
episode.
And I apologize between our bullsale, a couple long weeks, maybe
(00:26):
three long weeks of bulldeliveries and then a fall AI
season and flushing donors andeverything else right after
that.
The pod once again, got pushedto the back burner.
So, um, I apologize, but we wereback plus after lots of requests
over the months or a year, Ifinally got my wife, Amy to join
(00:48):
me on the podcast.
I think though that the wait wasworthwhile, we recorded it on
our anniversary as fitting asthat might be.
And this was almost a month ago,but I finally got time to edit
and post the recording thisweek.
So I'm like the one that I didwith Ava last January, we
recorded this on Bluetooth inthe truck.
(01:11):
And so.
Prepare yourself for a littleroad noise.
A few long pauses as we navigatethe byways of south central,
Missouri, and Arkansas, where wewere while we were recording
this discussion.
But I think.
If you can tolerate that, Ithink you'll enjoy the
discussion.
The discussion actually kind ofturned into more of a therapy
(01:33):
session, a few points during thepodcast.
I kind of hoped that we would bethe therapists leading this
discussion for you.
But I think we may have turnedinto the patients.
So I guess that makes you thetherapist.
I'm sorry.
Uh, send me the bill.
We talk about spousalcommunication.
(01:55):
Generational transitionsretirement or lack thereof for
most farmers and ranchers.
Community leadership and, and awhole host of other discussion
points.
And.
While this may not have been themost topical conversation.
It was real.
And it may have been a littlebit raw and it may touch a few
(02:16):
nerves as we talk aboutranchers, psyche and their
spouses and their families.
And I likely gore everybody's oxat some point in this episode.
So if you're a generation olderthan I am, I'm sorry.
If you are a generation youngerthan I am.
I'm sorry.
It probably got everybodyincluding myself.
(02:38):
Um, you may not learn anything.
Especially earth shattering inthis next hour.
But I hope that we shed somelight on the challenges that we
all face.
As we walk in the back door, thefront door at home or in the
office.
After we've finished the day.
At work or doing the real workeach day.
(03:01):
And we end this podcast withkind of a bit of a
self-reflection and hopefullysome gratefulness of what it is
that we all have.
And while I didn't intend thisto be a Christmas episode, I
think that pausing to find thegood and what we see and what we
do and what we, those that wehave around us.
Every day is pretty fitting thistime of year.
(03:23):
And so, um, maybe it all waspart of God's plan that I was
this tardy and maybe this willfit as a Christmas episode after
all.
So the, for the final time thisyear, I thank you from the
bottom of my heart for listeningto practically ranching and
supporting our family and ourranch and, uh, the tremendous
bull sale that we just finishedup with.
(03:45):
I know a lot of you, um, werethere and a lot of you were
bidding online and, and again, Ijust, I can't thank you enough.
We were very blessed.
So Merry Christmas.
Remember that Jesus is thereason for the season.
And I pray that he grants youand your family, many blessings
this season.
And into 2025.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (04:06):
So without further ado.
Here's Amy Perrier.
Matt (04:10):
All right, back by popular demand, live from the Dalebanks
delivery rig practicallyranching take two or part two.
Welcome my wife, Amy Perrier.
Round of applause, please fromthe studio audience.
Are you having fun yet?
Are you going to talk?
(04:31):
These things don't go well.
It's just the host speaking.
Amy (04:35):
Um, yeah, like if I, if my brain can stop criticizing or
being critical, trying to decidewhat you need to say, I can come
up with what I want to say.
Matt (2) (04:44):
Is that what you do on every podcast?
It's question.
Why is my husband asking thatquestion?
Doesn't he know what a good hostwould do?
Matt (04:59):
I have that effect on people.
It happens after about 50minutes into it, you'll feel
comfortable.
And the last 15 minutes will goreally well.
So Where are we and why are wehere?
Amy (05:13):
We're in the Ozarks but Different reason than some
people come to the Ozarks, butwe're delivering bulls and
celebrating our anniversary
Matt (05:24):
Oh, you know, that's the real reason the bull thing is
just a ploy to be able to have aromantic date through four
states and a 12 and a half hourroad trip And see the beautiful
Ozarks of Arkansas Missouri,Northeast, Oklahoma.
Amy (05:42):
Every girl's dream.
Yeah.
Matt (05:44):
Well it comes right down to it's why you married me.
Yeah.
Every girl's dream
Amy (05:53):
But my own still
Matt (05:59):
a little shocked that Tom and Carolyn Perrier allowed
that.
Maybe we just didn't ask easierto, uh, beg forgiveness than ask
permission.
So 23 years.
Amy (06:14):
Yes.
Matt (06:15):
Happy the anniversary, honey.
Amy (06:16):
Thank you.
You too.
Matt (06:18):
What is the secret, Amy?
What's the secret to 23 years ofhappy marriage in today's day
and age?
Amy (06:27):
Well, you would say low expectations.
Not
Matt (06:34):
my, not my
Matt (2) (06:35):
joke or story, but I still love it.
Amy (06:38):
Yeah.
Matt (2) (06:39):
You wouldn't say low expectations is how you got
through it.
Come on.
Amy (06:44):
Occasionally yes.
Blind hopefulness.
Matt (06:49):
Blind optimism and hopefulness.
First thing was you didn't knowyou were coming back to the
ranch.
At the time you thought we weregonna be a suburban Kansas City
yuppie type household, right?
Amy (07:04):
As a yuppie, but just, yeah.
I mean we, we didn't know at thetime we were gonna come back.
I mean, I'm sure that was alwayskind of a, in the back of our
minds as a possibility, but Ifigured we'd always end up in
the country at some point, atleast.
Yeah.
Matt (07:21):
Just thought we'd have 40 acres of country, not
Amy (07:29):
a few horses and a dog.
to take care of.
Not five kids in the car.
Lots of your other women.
I call them your cows to takecare of.
Matt (07:44):
Yes.
They all require some care,
Amy (07:49):
but it's good.
I love it.
Wouldn't change it.
Matt (07:53):
So there's lots of ranching couples that might be
listening to this, even thoughthe other half better half may
not be listening.
listening simultaneously.
If you were telling a younglady, let's say, who was about
(08:13):
to be a ranch wife, if you'reabout to give her a piece of
advice, what would you tell her?
So that she too can get theopportunity to celebrate 23
years of marital bliss, driving79 miles an hour down interstate
through the Ozarks with bullstrailing along behind.
(08:33):
Kind
Amy (08:36):
of like motherhood and being a new mom.
All at the same time.
So it's kind of hard to separatethem, but, um, I'd just say it
gets easier.
(08:57):
Times, times make up for it.
There's a lot of blessings thatcome with the hard.
Makes
Matt (09:16):
the good times seem all that much better.
Challenging times.
I think that's one thing,whether it be marriage, or just
working the land, nature andmarkets as a partner, i.
(09:37):
e.
much control of either.
What's good.
Take the good with the bad.
Cherish the good when it'sthere, knowing that it may not
be there forever.
B, not to get too philosophical.
Maybe that's why farmers andranchers, couple, farming and
(10:01):
ranching couples seem to stickit out.
Maybe beat the average comparedto, society in general.
Because we know it's not alwaysgoing to be rainbows and
unicorns.
Sunshine.
And we know that we can getthrough, as you said, do the
hard.
Amy (10:25):
You learn pretty quickly that you, you don't have a lot
of control over really,especially, like you said, the
weather, and it applies to life.
Then people realize, branchinginside, inside of things, that
(10:51):
you don't have a lot of control,control certain aspects, and so,
that's easier to apply that tothe rest of your life,
parenting, or, you know,whatever else it may be, so that
I think you get thatperspective.
Maybe a little sooner than youwould in a different type of
lifestyle.
(11:11):
Cause it seems when you don'thave those other factors, it
seems like you have things undercontrol or that you can control
things more.
And then when you realize youcan't, it's a lot harder to deal
with.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Matt (11:25):
Yeah, I agree.
What was the most challengingthing besides just the lack of
control?
What was the thing thatsurprised you the most?
About moving back to DalebanksAngus and starting our life in
production ag.
I think
Amy (11:48):
the thing that's the hardest, sounds kind of odd, but
it's also a blessing too.
I mean the fact that as a mom,you've got little kids, you as a
rancher, it sounds kind of odd.
Both gone a lot and there a lot.
(12:10):
You have, you have long days,long hours, work, Saturday,
Sunday, you know, seven days aweek.
Yet, you're also O there forlunch or you need to run it,
take a kiddo with you.
you know, that part of it, youknow, I often thought, well,
(12:32):
yes, you know, you're gone alot, but at the same time,
you're also accessible to somedegree.
Whereas if you worked at a nineto five job way, you wouldn't be
accessible in that aspect.
You'd be home in the eveningsand be done with work and be
home on the weekends maybe, but.
Matt (12:51):
So you're saying it's better that I would come in for
lunch or drop into check emailsor whatever I had to do before
iPhones and then be gone orwould it?
Amy (13:04):
I'm just saying there's, there's, there's good and bad.
I mean, it was hard that youhave long hours.
Um, I'm home sometimes you'restill working, you know, on the
computer or whatever.
but also I always try to temperthat with the benefit or the
Positive aspect that, you know,you're still, you were still
(13:27):
accessible or around when you,you know, if I really needed
help with something, which wouldbe different than a non ranch
job, maybe.
Matt (13:36):
So you came back with a pretty good feel for what a
farmer slash rancher type'shours and, uh, ability to be
home would be like because yougrew up in it.
Amy (13:54):
Yeah, my dad was a farmer.
And a hog.
He raised hogs.
Matt (14:00):
How in the world does someone like Carolyn Graham, who
moved back to the ranch aftergrowing up in the pavement of
Kansas City when she married dadand they moved back, how do any
of these husbands or wives whomarry a spouse who is the farmer
(14:22):
rancher, how do they get used toit?
Amy (14:25):
You'll have to ask her.
She'll have to be the next onthe road.
There you
Matt (14:28):
go.
I mean, it's, it was challengingenough for you and me.
You grew up in it.
Matt (3) (14:34):
I can't
Matt (14:34):
imagine not understanding, not seeing this every day as a
kid in your formative years andthen being thrust into it.
We've got friends, many friends,both husbands or wives who
married the farmer rancher andare now coming back to this
life.
And it's, it's a shock.
(14:55):
It's, it's a little bit of ashock.
Amy (15:02):
Yeah, it was an adjustment even for us.
You know, we had Ava, she was ayear when we came back.
And we lived in Platte City, sowe were, you know, I worked in
Kansas City, so, things werevery accessible as far as stores
and restaurants and, you know,run here if you need something
kind of thing.
so that aspect of, of both justaccessibility of things and
(15:27):
Also, I think the biggestadjustment, you know, at the age
that we were at, the biggestadjustment was just the fact
that we couldn't go and wecouldn't go wherever we wanted
to on the weekend.
You know, you were workingweekends.
That was, that was probably thebiggest adjustment.
Matt (15:45):
Unless we were delivering bulls.
Amy (15:47):
Unless we were delivering bulls.
Matt (15:49):
We joke about this, but at least our family, and I think
nearly every ranching family, isat least some level of this.
We feel guilty if we do leavethe place
Amy (16:01):
without a purpose, a ranch.
So
Matt (16:03):
therefore we have to have a purpose.
We have to have an excuse.
Oh, we've got to go to thismeeting or, oh, we've got, I
mean, every vacation growing upthat I took involved one to five
stops at Angus operationsthroughout the country in order
for us to be able to be gone fora week.
Each summer we had to go look atgenetics.
(16:25):
We had to go look at calves outof the next circle.
We're going to use or whatever.
And I think that that's notuncommon.
We have this guilt ridden lifethat we can't really actually
just leave and go somewhereunless the business is calling
us to do
Amy (16:43):
it.
Matt (16:43):
Which again, not normal today, especially.
Amy (16:48):
Yeah.
You've gotten better at that.
Your parents have gotten betterat that.
But yeah, there's always gottabe a reason to leave and that
might just be your
Matt (17:03):
Yeah, probably so.
So is that why we don't retire?
Seriously, I mean, most farmersand ranchers, they just, I
think, part of it is we don'thave a hobby, and so what do we
do at age 70?
Amy (17:20):
Yeah, I think it's your lifestyle, so it's hard to give
that up, because that's allyou've known and all you've
done, and everything, everythingrevolves around it.
It's not just a job.
?? (17:30):
I
Amy (17:31):
think it's part of it, and having purpose, you know,
continuing to have purpose isimportant.
Matt (17:40):
But it also, again, and I'm not, this is not a self
reflection solely, but I didhave somebody a few weeks ago
tell me that the reason thatthis quote unquote next
generation won't rise up andtake hold, and this wasn't just
in agriculture, this wasbusiness wide and culture wide
and even talking about communityservice organizations, the
(18:03):
reason this quote unquote nextgeneration won't take hold is
the old guys and gals won't getthe heck out of the way.
And their thought was becauseBecause small town rural
communities, often run by farmerand rancher types, small
business owners, etc.
Because those boards are full of65 to 80 year old men and women,
(18:31):
it's not that the youngergeneration doesn't want to
contribute, it's just that theydon't want to contribute when
they're still being run by theirgrandparents.
Amy (18:42):
Yeah, I think that, I think that's probably the case with
every generation, thattransition.
I mean.
Mom talks about groups thatshe's, organizations that she's
was in that, you know, it washard to get the old guard to
either change or move on so theycould do with the things that
(19:04):
they wanted to do.
maybe our age or the generationa little bit younger are a
little more, even moreindependent to do things their
own way.
And I see benefit of both.
You can figure out how tocollaborate with the older
(19:26):
generation.
Then you can learn a lot, butthey also need to learn how to
collaborate with you and causethey can learn a lot from, or we
can learn a lot from the youngergeneration.
So I think that's just achallenge probably across the
board.
Rations.
And I think part of it too isour age, you know, we're kind of
(19:49):
in that middle zone where a lotof people didn't come back to
small towns and come back torural America.
You know, there's.
You know, that age group becausethey grew up in the eighties and
things were really rough and,you know, maybe at the time that
they would have been cominghome, things weren't, in such a
(20:11):
place that they could besupported on the ranch that, um,
we just didn't have a lot ourage.
And now there is a younger groupand see, it feels like there's a
larger portion of, you know, 25to 35, 40 age kiddos.
that are, I guess they'rekiddos, kiddos to me, are coming
(20:31):
back to the rural areas.
So I think maybe because ofthat, because of that gap, it's
a global transition, um, andthey just do things differently.
So you know, the, the standardmonthly or once a week meeting
is not always their, theirthing.
So I think there will be somechanges that will be made in
(20:53):
order for those organizations orgroups to continue with that age
group.
The
Matt (20:58):
truth of it is.
Any other industry, you and Iare 51 years old, any other
industry we are approaching, ifnot already the old guard.
And yet nearly any communitymeeting we go to industry
meetings, sometimes average orthe younger crowd to the people
(21:24):
who are at said meetings.
And so here we are talking aboutthey, the older generation.
And when in actuality we oughtto be the older generation,
we've got a lot.
Listen to this podcast andthey're laughing their tails off
as we talk about the oldergeneration.
We are the older generation, um,in most aspects, but you're
(21:48):
right.
Just like with nearly anysituation, there is a balance
somewhere that probably bothends of the extremes need to
give a little.
And, um, it's hard after, ifthis is like you said, all
you've done for your entirelife.
Uh, it's hard to relinquish thatcontrol or move on or turn the
(22:12):
reins over or what else.
And fortunately, in ourbusiness, our family, mom and
dad have been very good aboutseeing that there are
opportunities when a generationis interested and can and wants
to take a set of tasks or takeownership or whatever else.
(22:34):
but it's still not easy.
It's easier.
But we've all seen and heard andmaybe people that are sitting
here listening today are in themidst of a situation where
somebody our age, 50, 60 yearsold is still not able to make a
decision for the family businessbecause grandma and grandpa or
mom and dad or whoever hasn'tgiven them that opportunity.
(22:56):
And it's that, man, that's riskyand challenging.
And why would the subsequentgenerations want to come back
and subject themselves to 40years of before they even get to
make a management decision.
There's
Amy (23:14):
definitely a balance of the generation coming up has to feel
some ownership or decisionmaking to basically what they're
(23:36):
sacrificing is worth it becausethey are sacrificing a lot to be
there and parents haven't beenopen to that, you know, allowing
you to take more and moreresponsibility.
And me, me even, even though I'mnot a daily part of the ranch,
um, makes the, the sacrifice,you know.
(23:59):
That you're making worth it oryou see the road ahead I guess a
little bit better than if youwere not all those things
Matt (24:08):
and I'll even Be a little too Transparent here, but there
were times when we moved back ayear two years three years into
it even though mom and dadImmediately started giving us
Some of that autonomy, you knowthe day I moved back I May say I
(24:32):
basically got to take over thecustomer service, marketing, and
PR part of our business justbecause that was something that
I'd had a lot of training withthrough the Angus Association
and life and what have you andit was talent or something I had
interest in.
And then soon after the geneticselection decisions and mating
(24:54):
decisions and things like that,um, you know, I got to start
doing that right off the bat andeven still there were times when
I.
just throw up my hands indisgust because I didn't feel
like I was good at everythingelse I was supposed to be doing.
I guess I just bring that up incase there are people out there
(25:15):
questioning why they ever cameback to the family business,
farm, ranch, whatever the casemay be, or to prepare them if
they are getting ready to, it'snot going to be any different
than any other job.
The only big difference is, it'sharder to change.
You just either quit or make asignificant change in your
(25:40):
duties when it's your familybusiness.
And I don't know that we canever quantify how much more
difficult it is when your bossis your dad, or your grandpa, or
your grandmother, and thatbusiness partner is your spouse,
your in law, cousins, orwhatever, uh, that's a whole
(26:08):
extra layer that I don't thinkthat any amount of college can
do.
or extension meetings, orresearch can ever prepare you
for.
We all learn how to network, weall learn how to get along with
our boss and our co workers, andwe read books and hear podcasts
(26:28):
about these things, uh,workplace, environment, culture,
and building that positiveacquirement.
It spills over to the Christmastable, or Thanksgiving dinner,
or whatever else, especiallywhen it's maybe in a negative
light.
It's tough, and it is somethingthat we have to talk about, and
(26:51):
we have to recognize, and wehave to admit that, once again,
it's not a normal businessculture and employee employer
relationship.
It's stressful.
Amy (27:05):
I just read something this morning that, um, talked about
that the thoughts of youth arelong, long thoughts.
Here, so I just can read it, um,and I, I think, I get it.
Get that in the sense of, youknow, when you're in your
twenties and you're trying tomake decisions about your life,
(27:25):
you know, you're thinking aboutthe end, like, where am I going
to end up?
And I need to do all thesethings to be able to end up
there.
And I think when you come backto the ranch, you know, as the
youth, as the younger person,you're seeing all these things
that will, in order for me toget to where I want to be, we've
got to make all these changesand we got to add this or we got
to do that.
(27:46):
And you're, you're Thinkingabout that long term view.
whereas, you know, thegenerations that, that, the
generation that's there at thetime, they've already, they
already know what they've doneto prepare for their end time
and they don't feel like some,you know, they need to make all
these changes necessarily, or atleast not as fast as quickly as
(28:08):
maybe the youth that comes backwants to do, um, because, you
know, they've kind of laid outtheir plan and they, they feel
like they're on the trajectorythat they need to be.
for their plan.
Um, so, you know, I can see asthe person, you know, as, as
(28:28):
we're getting to be thegeneration that's going to be
the older generation and havingour kids come back, um, you
know, that's if they want to,yeah, that, uh, you know, that
time span goes quickly.
And so now you're alreadythinking, well, what changes are
they gonna, they gonna want tomake?
You have to.
You have to be open to that andyour parents have been, you have
(28:50):
to be open to that and allowingthose changes to be made
because,, it does cause, forone, it's just too much conflict
if you're not at least open todiscussing, you know, it doesn't
mean I have to make all of thechanges, but if you're not at
least open to discussing andfiguring it out, how it's going
to work for all of you, um, itjust isn't going to work or it's
(29:14):
going to make it very difficult.
And like you said, that's adifferent dynamic.
When it's a family businessversus just working for someone,
that if you're not happy withwhat they're accepting from you,
then you can move on to adifferent job.
whereas when it's your familybusiness, you've got to work it
(29:34):
out.
You've got to figure out a wayto work it out, to, uh, keep
things going.
Matt (29:40):
So we're going to play.
Would you rather, would yourather have the situation where
you come back as a young personcouple to a farmer ranch.
You're a young kid that's notmarried, uh, to a farmer ranch
and spend the next 30 years withfamily that doesn't want to give
(30:05):
you, they want you to learn alot from them and you do learn a
lot, but until they finally passaway or fully retire or whatever
the case may be, you never getthat opportunity to make
management decisions untilyou're 50 or 60 or have to come
back immediately because of atragedy and the family farm or
(30:26):
ranch is going to end if youdon't come back and save it and
you got nobody to learn from.
Both tough situations, luckilywe've not had to do either one
ourselves, but which is which istougher?
Amy (30:42):
Oh that's hard, um I, I think I would choose the, even
though it would be verydifficult, I think I would
choose the one where you werethere even if you didn't get
Make them in and managementdecisions because at least
you've had that time.
There's so many benefits tobeing with your family, working
with your family, alwaysoperation because you can change
(31:07):
your mindset.
Life is a lot about yourmindset.
So if you can, you can changeyour mindset and look at the
benefits and get to drug down bythe negatives of not being able
to do everything that you want,decision standpoint, et cetera.
(31:28):
As if you don't come back andyou're still.
Suddenly thrust into it, to takeover and be missed out on that,
those benefits of being inintegration with your family.
Matt (31:47):
But, play devil's advocate, as I so often do, with
you, you're not encumbered bybiases, you're not encumbered by
the way we've always donethings.
You have a clean palette, andyou get to do it the way that in
2024, whenever you came back.
(32:11):
Technology and the currentknowledge and understanding, you
know, you're not biased.
And I've, I've seen both.
I've seen folks and, and theright people making the
decisions can make either onework.
And both could share thechallenges, but both could share
the opportunities that they hadbecause of that situation too.
?? (32:35):
Yeah.
Matt (32:36):
I mean, I just, I bring that up because so often I see
farms and ranches that are stilldoing things the way they were
in the 1950s.
Not because they don't know thetechnologies are there, but just
because two, three generationsAll had the blinders on because
the generation before them toldthem you can't do it any other
(32:58):
way than the way we do.
There's good and bad.
Amy (33:03):
Yeah, there's uh, a lot to be said to being just open to
discuss and learn from eachother.
Because I think that, I thinkthat the businesses or the
ranches that are making changesor at least, you know, open to
that are the ones that arecontinuing at a successful
(33:27):
level.
I mean, not that you can't, notthat you can't survive doing
things the same way that you'vedone for years, um, but I think,
you know, the ranches that weknow that are really growing and
making changes and bringing,getting their youth to come
(33:49):
back, um, are ones that arewilling to, to allow that to
happen.
All
Matt (33:57):
right, since we had so much fun with that round, we'll
do another would you rather.
Would you rather.
have a ranch that hashistorically supported one or
maybe two family members, zerokids who want to return to the
family farm or ranch, or fivekids who all have to come back,
(34:21):
want to come back to the farm orranch.
Not any family in particular.
Just
Amy (34:27):
preparing for the worst and Worst or best case scenario.
Yeah.
Definitely.
would take the all five versusnone.
But no pressure for any of ourkids to come back.
Matt (34:38):
How do you make it work?
Amy (34:39):
Um.
Matt (34:40):
You got competition for land, from outside of
agriculture, from withinagriculture.
You can't make, overnight, youcan't make a business into
something that can support 500percent more salaries and health
(35:00):
insurances and everything else.
So, I mean.
Amy (35:04):
Well, hopefully.
It wouldn't happen all at once.
I don't think it could happenall at once for one thing.
Matt (35:08):
Yeah.
Amy (35:09):
Um, we have friends that, you know, they, they've required
their kids to bring something tothe table.
You know, if you're going tocome back, you have to bring
some other sort of income.
Either, starting another aspectlike providing hunting services
or,, direct meat services or.
to bring additional businessinto the ranch.
(35:33):
they have to use theircreativity to come up with
something to help financially.
So
Matt (35:41):
you either create an enterprise or you have an off
farm job or something to payyour own way through additional
revenue or through outsideincome.
Amy (35:53):
Yeah, I think that, you know, you wouldn't have to maybe
do that with one or two but ifyou're going to have five kids
come back, that's the only way.
You're going to be able to doit.
You're going to expand yourbusiness.
Matt (36:06):
And for those who don't know our story, the way we did
it, and I'm not saying this isright, wrong or indifferent, but
we had two non family employees.
In addition to my mom and dad,we had one of those two, the
longest term employee who took ajob elsewhere.
Dad called asked if I knew ofanybody that might want the job.
(36:31):
And it got us thinking thatmaybe it was the deal.
for us to transition into ranchwithout having to bring in a
bunch of new revenue right offthe bat.
We came in as paid labor.
We started working toward agriship and things like that.
(36:56):
And there are challenges withthat, because it is hard to look
at it from a business standpointwhen you're doing the same work
that you were.
Also, it was a great way for meto get in shape.
And learn how to do some of thethings.
(37:17):
Things that were going on that Ididn't even realize because it
wasn't happening in the summerwhen I was working growing up or
it wasn't happening on theweekends or spring break or
whenever I actually saw thethings happening.
I thought I knew everything thatwas going on in Dalebanks Angus
and it turns out I didn't knowsquat.
I learned a lot right off thebat and it was a good way to do
it.
(37:37):
I don't know if I'd do it anydifferent but it's not, not for
everybody.
We're all kids our age that areteens and 20 year olds.
Now, how will agriculture lookdifferent for them than it did
for us when we were 30?
(37:59):
When we
Amy (38:01):
You know, when we came back, the, the thing that was
kind of starting to happen.
was sharing our story, you know,letting the world know I had
some opportunities right off thebat to do that different views
(38:21):
or videos or thing, you know,commercial things like that.
That was kind of a new thing.
Like people weren't doing thatto the extent that they are now
by any means., so that was kindof the new focus, just the day
(38:42):
to day ranching aspects.
so I think once our kids comeback, that'll just be kind of a
normal part of it is, the socialmedia part of it, especially if
you're selling anything direct.
But even standpoint, sharingwhat you do is just kind of part
(39:02):
of the job now, I think, or itcan be, doesn't have to be.
But, just all the technologythat's going to be available to
them through AI and.
And you know, we just kind ofget to, to see what that's going
to look like, but, virtualfencing and, we definitely had
it easier from a laborstandpoint than when your
(39:25):
parents came back, not that youdidn't or don't continue to work
very hard or employees, workvery hard physically, but the
things that you do on a dailybasis are different than And I
think that will continue toevolve, even though we keep a
lot of the same traditions, westill, or actually it was kind
(39:46):
of a new transition when we cameback, you know, using horses
and, the way we have, thosethings may not change, but just
some of the other technology andthings that they can wise on
will be different.
Matt (40:06):
I think you're right.
I mean, the technology thing,everybody talks about it, but I
think, you know, We did bringsomething up there that's kind
of ironic or a paradox.
We went, when I moved back,because I liked using horses,
some would say we went backwardsand we went from moving cows
(40:29):
quite often, or at least to alarge extent, with a pickup and
a four wheeler, leading them inthe four wheelers, to back where
we used horses a lot, nearlyevery day.
Those first few years.
And again, we probably couldhave done it more efficiently
from a time standpoint, but itwas something that I, it was a
(40:52):
reason that I wanted to be backon the ranch was so I could be
horseback.
And so here we were supposed tofollow the rules and use
advanced technology.
And yet we took a step back intime and went back to use
horses, drag calves instead ofrunning through a shoot and
(41:12):
things like that.
So And I, I know that it was theright decision economically, but
um, that is one thing that Ithink is important for both the
younger and the older generationto recognize is, even though
we're flesh of your flesh, wemay like things different, or
(41:36):
like things done differently,and that has to be okay within
reason.
Uh, again, that's That's wherethat give and take comes, and
luckily, Dad to accept that andthat being fine, and I think
we're probably all better forit.
And our employees at the time,our employee, liked it better
(41:56):
too, and so, what we did.
Dad always had to be driven byadvances in technology,
sometimes a return to a moretraditional approach in a
business might be good.
Amy (42:10):
Well, I think it's kind of a quality of life.
Decision.
Um, you know, that's somethingyou enjoyed and our employees
and your dad didn't necessarilywhen he, you know, when he came
back, he, he's not a big horseperson.
So, that just, just havingsatisfied employees, you
(42:31):
included is important.
And so that was, you know, eventhough it wasn't necessarily his
choice, he made a good choice byallowing.
Um, just because you want to be,it's hard work.
You want to be doing it in a, ina way that you enjoy the most
(42:55):
that you can, you know,obviously all your jobs and
tasks, you're not going toenjoy, but those that you can do
in such a way that it's, uh,that it's enjoyable is also
important.
Matt (43:07):
So we keep bringing up the fact that mom and dad, large
part, we feel like did it right.
And, and, um, made it as easy ofa transition as it could be and
continues to be for us from abusiness standpoint, a cultural
standpoint.
(43:28):
Why, why did they or why doother families struggle?
And, and it's still a struggle.
I mean, it's any time, even inthe most perfect estate planning
and generational transition andeverything else is still going
to be a transition and changecan be hard.
And it's not.
(43:51):
Is that such a challenge for agenerator?
Amy (44:00):
I mean, I don't, I think it's different in every
situation.
But, you know, maybe it comesback down to that control
aspect.
Because there are so many thingsthat you don't have control of.
You know, it's scary to let goof, things that have worked.,
Even though sometimestransitioning things that have
(44:22):
worked well into something thatmight work even better.
you know, is good.
It's sometimes hard to see thatwhen something's working well,
why change it?
Um, and I have control overthis.
So why would I let that controlgo?
Because I have so many otheraspects as a rancher that I
don't have control over.
So, I think that could play apart in it.
(44:44):
And just, personalities andcommunication, you know, you're
not, you know, you're not alwaysthe best communicator.
You know, we have a rule.
Your parents kind of had a rulethat you have to go and work for
someone else first before youcome back to the ranch.
And I think that's an importantstep for both of you.
if, if grandpa and dad neverworked for anyone else, they
(45:12):
maybe didn't learn some of thoseyou know, interpersonal or
communication skills that youwould learn from working for
someone else.
you just kind of resort back to.
always functional, maybe alittle dysfunctional
relationships and ways ofrelating.
Whereas if you're working forsomeone else, you're forced to
kind of face some of that inyour own self of how you
(45:34):
communicate and how you interactwith people or what amount of
control you're willing to giveup.
And so, that may play a part init.
So I think it's again, it'sjust, it's different in every
situation, but ultimately, youknow, you have to balance what's
best for you.
and what's best for your family.
Matt (45:56):
what's the hardest thing about being married to your
business partner who probablyputs in more hours than most
business partners would and thenturns around and can't turn it
off and she or he gets back tothe house.
(46:21):
How do you deal with that?
Now we're just talking the samegeneration.
Amy (46:28):
Yeah,
Matt (46:28):
not worrying about mother's father's in laws
outlaws
Amy (46:33):
Well, it's it's taken 20 20 years to figure out
Matt (46:39):
basically you say you don't know yet
Amy (46:41):
No, I'm saying I've gotten a lot better at it You know it
because it is it is challengingThat it's always about I mean
work is a is a big factor in ourmarriage all the time and it's
always there It's always outsideour door You know So I talked
(47:02):
earlier about it was nice tohave the flexibility of you
being able to come in and out ofthe house.
But sometimes that's hard toobecause
Matt (47:09):
look at all those Airstreams, all my wife wants is
an Airstream trailer.
Speaking of
Amy (47:15):
getting away from work, we can get an Airstream and then
you won't think about it.
Um, but
Matt (3) (47:21):
I think I'd think about it more anyway, proceed
Amy (47:24):
anyways.
You know, sometimes when youcome into the house, you're in
your work zone and if you don'tsee.
The work zone happening in thehouse, you know,
Matt (47:37):
I start knocking heads.
You
Amy (47:39):
start knocking heads, which isn't always about
Matt (47:42):
literally for anybody that's going to call social
services on.
Amy (47:46):
Yeah.
Why are we sitting?
Why are we, you know, and not somuch for me, but for the kids,
but then also.
So if I'm, you know, not doingthings the way you think I
should be doing them, the bossman comes out and definitely
been some conflict in thataspect.
But, otherwise, just, you cominghome and thinking me thinking
that you're home for the eveningor home for the day.
(48:09):
And then it's a wall in about anhour.
So I got to go do this for, youknow, another hour and then I
got to come back.
You know, so that was a hardaspect for me at first too is,
okay, when are you actually homefor the evening?
You know, when are you done forthe day?
Or I got it.
No, because then you're gettingon the computer.
But I also feel like I figuredout how to maybe communicate
(48:35):
that with you and better when itfrustrates me or You know, like
yesterday you wanted to deliverbulls on Thanksgiving and try to
make it on our way to a familyThanksgiving and it really
wasn't working out.
Now the road's bouncing these,my voices.
Not,
Matt (48:53):
not yet.
We're almost
Matt (3) (48:56):
there, but not yet.
Amy (48:57):
But, uh, yeah, you know, I think you've gotten a better,
you've gotten better atlistening when I kind of subtly
suggest maybe we just don't needto deliver bulls on
Thanksgiving.
Maybe we can skip a day and youcan take a little break and be
refreshed.
Fresh for your long trip today,and you, you know, that probably
would have been a 30 minutediscussion several years ago
(49:18):
and, well,
Matt (49:18):
I probably would have told you you were wrong.
Amy (49:20):
Yeah.
And now you're a little more,cause you
Matt (49:22):
were,
Amy (49:23):
I was wrong.
Matt (49:23):
But from a dollars and cents, efficiency standpoint,
you were wrong,
Amy (49:33):
we could
Matt (49:34):
have saved a good Yeah.
Yeah.
Probably 45, 50 minutes of drivetime if we added both the dual,
yeah, for a six hour trip.
No, you were right, and I thinkmaybe you've gotten a little
better at being direct or moredirect than you used to be and
hopefully I have gotten betterat, um, hearing you when you
(49:58):
subtly say, that's a terribleidea.
What the hell is wrong with you?
What do you mean you want todeliver some of these three
people's bulls on Thanksgivingand ruin our dinner?
Welcome to Matt and Amy'stherapy session.
Um, join us on the couch as wesort through our own problems
(50:18):
and make thousands of peoplelisten in.
Amy (50:23):
Cause we know you
Matt (50:24):
people have had them too.
Amy (50:25):
Yeah.
It's definitely a process, um,an added dimension, an added
marital dimension to, you know,having a work business, family
business.
Yeah,
Matt (50:41):
I, because I don't know any other way, I can't compare
and contrast, but when I saythat farmers and ranchers and
their families are not normal,it may be more of a small
business owners and theirfamilies, because if you own a
restaurant or a hotel, orwhatever else, you're probably
(51:03):
bringing the same stuff home andyou never can get away from it.
But the fact of the matter isthat small business owners are
definitely in the minoritytoday, business owners of any
kind.
And you can't just clock out,turn your phone off, turn your
mind off and say, well, youknow, whoever just took over for
(51:25):
me on The next shift can dealwith that because it doesn't
matter to me.
It still matters and it mattersnot only to the person who is
stressed about it or thinkingabout it or figuring out that
there's a more efficient way ofdoing this and all we have to do
is work on Thanksgiving.
(51:46):
It also, oh, I think I justmissed my turn.
I did just miss my turn.
Um, it also matters to everybodyaround, the spouse, the kids,
and that's When things get realis when, uh, it starts getting
too extreme.
Yeah.
(52:07):
It's,
Amy (52:09):
uh, you know, that's, that is one challenge when you're
asked about challenges of beinga ranch wife.
Um, just explaining to peoplewhat you do as a ranch wife is
very difficult.
Um, you know, the friends thatare also ranch wives, you know,
we kind of joke about it.
You know, your day is, and Iwork all day.
(52:30):
I ranch too, but I don't workfull time off the ranch, but I
feel like I have a job as aranch wife because, you know,
your day is never the same andyou never really know what your
day is going to bring because itis a business and there are
things that come up that youbasically are an employee that
(52:54):
you have to help deal with, youknow, or it changes what you do
in some capacity or what youplan to do for the day.
Um, and
Matt (53:02):
Or if you have kids and the person that's working on the
ranch, A, doesn't even considerthe fact that they probably
could or should be helping outgetting kids shuttled or picked
up or watched when they're sickor whatever else, and B, in
(53:22):
their defense, maybe flat outcan't because cows are
synchronized to be bred todayand tomorrow and that's gonna be
all they can think about and dotoday and tomorrow.
Regardless of every other, uh,unforeseen circumstance with
sick kids who are home orwhatever else.
(53:44):
is coming about.
Amy (53:45):
Yeah, it's kind of that yin and the yang or that good and
the bad of the flexibility thatyou have.
Um, because some days you dohave that flexibility and of
helping out with the kids andsome days you definitely do not.
And so, yeah.
Matt (54:02):
I remember vividly walking in one time thinking that I was
going to be able to really makeyour day because I was going to
help with young Ava or somethingfor 30 minutes.
And you told me, you know,sometimes I wish you would just,
(54:24):
when you walk out that door inthe morning, not come back until
after dark.
Because then I know I don't haveto worry about you.
Don't worry about changingthings as you show up for 30
minutes thinking that you'rehelping and you're actually
completely upsetting the trip.
If I just knew that you weregoing to be gone, it'd be
easier.
I'm like, oh, didn't see thatcoming.
(54:44):
You're welcome, honey.
I thought I was doing you afavor.
I'm sure that
Amy (54:49):
was a day I didn't get much sleep the night before.
Probably.
Matt (54:52):
Probably.
Because of Ava.
Amy (54:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Because of baby Ava.
It's
Matt (54:56):
all Ava's fault.
It's that uncertainty.
Yeah, there's definitely a lot
Amy (55:00):
of uncertainty.
No schedule at all.
Matt (55:04):
I probably quoted him before.
The great western cowboy poetlaureate, Baxter Black, on an
airplane one time, sitting nextto a young, attractive lady, and
she saw his wild rag and hiscowboy hat, and she asked him if
he was a real cowboy.
(55:25):
Yes, man, I am.
Always wondered, what do cowboysactually do?
Get up every morning, watch thesun come up, and wait for snow.
And
Matt (3) (55:41):
that's kind of it.
And that's hard to deal with.
I
Matt (55:44):
mean, we keep going back to the unknowns, but there's a
lot of them.
There's a lot of them.
And as good as we should be atdealing with change and the
unknowns, we just move fromcrisis to crisis sometimes in
agriculture, it seems.
Like, we live for the crisis.
In
Amy (56:03):
some aspects, yes.
I mean, you're a planner, andyou have everything planned out.
Matt (56:07):
Yeah, which is not a good thing.
Amy (56:09):
Sometimes that backfires.
If, uh, if things don't go asplanned, it's sometimes, it's
like the low expectations.
It's harder to, uh, deal with itsometimes when you have a plan
and it doesn't work out.
Whereas I'm less of a planner.
I've become more of a plannerthan I used to be, but, I've
(56:29):
kinda, I'm more of a go with theflow kind of person, um, which
is good and bad too.
So, it's, branching is really alot like parenthood.
I mean, and that's basicallywhat you have is
?? (56:43):
life.
Amy (56:45):
Cattle and kids, you know, they all need when they need
something, they need somethingright away and you can't put it
off.
So you have kids and uh, severalpastures full of cattle that
have to have whatever they needwhen they need it.
Matt (57:03):
We started this podcast comparing my other women.
Amy (57:08):
Yeah.
And now I'm saying that they'reactually your kids.
Now they're actually my kids.
Yup.
Matt (57:16):
The parallels of cattle production and family This
really is like sitting on thecouch.
Hang out your shingle, honey.
People will be calling in forthe next one for advice from Dr.
Amy.
Amy (57:32):
Well, maybe it's Dr.
Matt.
Maybe you're helping me.
Matt (57:38):
Well, I've been saying that for years.
What a blessing I am to you.
I'm just glad you're finallyrecognizing it.
Amy (57:50):
We make a good team most days if we're not on opposite
sides.
Matt (57:55):
Well, and honestly, sometimes the best teams are
constantly, not constantly, butare not hesitant to help their
teammate do better.
Amy (58:06):
Yeah.
Matt (58:09):
That doesn't come without, as you said, communication and,
uh,
Amy (58:15):
forgiveness.
There you
Matt (58:17):
go.
It Takes some of that.
All right.
We're 58 minutes into an hourlong podcast.
Any closing thoughts of wisdom?
gripes that you have about, thepodcast host slash business
(58:38):
partner slash father of yourchildren.
Amy (58:43):
Oh yeah.
Matt (58:45):
Oh yeah.
Amy (58:46):
No, I said, Oh no, I don't know.
23 years of, um, it's hard tosum up, but it's been a fun ride
and hopefully we'll keep going.
Matt (2) (58:57):
Hopefully the operative word of hopefully.
Oh, such optimism.
Wild optimism.
?? (59:08):
Again, low expectations.
Low
Matt (2) (59:10):
expectations.
That's what's gotten you thisfar.
Amy (59:13):
Yeah.
Just enjoy the present moment,you know.
Try not to worry too much aboutwhat's coming or what's
happened.
Just enjoy the present moment asmuch as you can.
Matt (2) (59:28):
It's impossible, honey.
I
Amy (59:29):
know, it's impossible for you.
That's,
Matt (59:31):
you just got to the reason that it's so hard to be a
farmer.
Farmer Rancher family is becauseyou're constantly worrying about
what's coming next.
Weather market risks, the taskat hand, the task that we have
(59:52):
that's coming up.
'cause you gotta prepare theequipment.
You gotta prepare the cattle,you gotta prepare the pens,
prepare your plan.
I mean that is the wild partabout watching Yellowstone.
Or any of the number of westernsthat people who don't get our
business think, Wow, wouldn'tthat be nice to just sit there
(01:00:16):
horseback and not have a care inthe world?
I've never gotten on a horse andnot had a care in the world.
I enjoy getting on a horse andit's therapeutic for me.
But I don't know any farmer orrancher ever in history who
doesn't have a care in theworld.
We're constantly thinking aboutwhat's coming up.
(01:00:37):
And as a result Result.
You know, we go, and I may havetalked about this, we go to the
Symphony and the Flint Hillsevery June, which this June is,
I guess gonna be the last one,but, so if you've got it on your
bucket list, make sure and go toSymphony and the Flint hills.org
and get your tickets.
Now,
?? (01:00:54):
there's a little plug.
We go
Matt (01:00:55):
to this symphony and there's a handful of ranchers
who maybe go every year, maybeyou're hosting it, maybe you're
volunteering or whatever else.
And for one day a year, at leastfor me, and I think other ranch.
One day a year, we get to standhere in the Flint Hills and see
(01:01:17):
things that we never ever see,that are there every single day.
But we see them, why?
Because there's 6, 500 of ourclosest suburban friends who
have driven hours, if nothalfway across the world, flown,
to come and witness this withus, and we see it through their
(01:01:37):
eyes.
Otherwise, when we see thatgrass, we see, okay.
Have we taken half of this andis it time to move this group of
cows tomorrow or next week ornext month?
Or we see this beautifulhillside that could use a better
(01:01:59):
pond right there or a waterdevelopment down the hill from
the pond or we could do a betterjob of grazing if we'd move the
mineral feeder here or whateverthe case may be.
We see it as a, as a part of ourbusiness, not as a legacy that's
so beautiful that it has nolimits.
I
Amy (01:02:20):
think anything from the outside looks way more romantic
than it does on the inside.
but it's there and you know,your capacity to appreciate it
is there because you taught methat because when we first got
married, I'm really, I mean, youknow, you, you were always good
at pointing out, Oh, look at thesky.
(01:02:42):
Look at the beautiful sunrise.
Look at the sunset.
You know, you were alwayspointing out those things.
And I, You know, I don't think Idid, didn't, I don't think I
didn't have an appreciation forthose things, but just your
awareness of them was greaterthan mine.
And so, it's definitely there,but yeah, being on the ranch
every day, it's gonna take thataway, you know, you do have to
(01:03:05):
have moments that remind you ofthat.
of where you live and why youlive there and the beauty around
you.
That's life.
I mean, everyone gets boggeddown with what's happening and
what they need to do and we allneed a reminder to just enjoy
the present moment becausethat's life too.
You know, the present moment isreally your life and you can't
(01:03:26):
constantly be worrying aboutwhat's to come because you're
going to miss your life if youdon't, if you do.
Matt (01:03:32):
I think tying it into the whole generation transition and
And should or shouldn't or canor can't we have the next
generation come in as a viablepart of this operation?
Not Dale Banks Angus, but justin general one's farm or ranch.
(01:03:53):
I don't know how we quantify iton a balance sheet, but we have
to recognize that there is valuein this land and the ability to
raise a family, carry on alegacy and have that that you
(01:04:16):
can't put a dollar amount on.
But once we get back in the heatof the moment, trying to pay the
bills and make the land paymentand all these other things, all
that intrinsic value, it doesn'tgo away, but it's doggone hard
(01:04:39):
to see.
I think, just what you said, wehave to figure out a way to
remind ourselves that we didn'tjust do this for the paycheck,
obviously.
We didn't just We did thisbecause we believe it's
important.
It's important to carry onfamily businesses in America.
(01:05:01):
It's important to feed ourneighbors in the world.
It's important to raise a familyand show them work ethic.
And all these things that wetalk about this podcast and
coffee shops across the west andmidwest and every place else.
(01:05:21):
But we have to remind ourselvessometimes that that's important.
It's important.
In fact, probably, for the goodof the country and of humanity,
we still have to keep doing thisto prove that it can be done.
And there's value.
Amy (01:05:42):
Well, your dad's favorite line is, we're not in the
business of raising cattle,we're in the business of raising
kids.
And your favorite line is, thebiggest export that we have from
rural America is our kids.
And that's the That's the dailyreminder for me of why we came
back and that,, you know, we hadAva at the time she was a year
and, you know, that was ourdecision was we want to raise
(01:06:04):
our kids in this lifestyle.
And, fortunately so far, knockon wood, it has turned out.
I mean, they, you know, havelearned some of
Matt (01:06:14):
Ava's friends that are listening to this might argue my
question.
Um,
Amy (01:06:18):
you know, they have,
Matt (01:06:19):
sorry, Ava
Amy (01:06:21):
developed the skills that we'd hoped that they would.
We develop, you know, work ethicand, persistence and drive and
also just appreciation for thethings around them, and not that
you can't get that off theranch, but for us that we knew
that that's where we wanted toraise our kids.
And so they are my reminder, Iguess, on a daily basis of why
(01:06:43):
we did it and why we continue todo it.
And so
Matt (01:06:53):
I rarely have a hard time closing out a podcast.
I don't know how to close thisone out.
You got to land the plane forme.
Amy (01:07:03):
You're
Matt (01:07:03):
my co pilot.
Amy (01:07:07):
to another 23 more years.
I don't know.
Matt (3) (01:07:10):
Just 23.
What's that make us?
74.
Amy (01:07:15):
Hopefully you've got
Matt (3) (01:07:16):
somebody in mind after that.
Amy (01:07:22):
Another podcast in 23 because I don't think you're
going to want to do another onewith me after that.
Matt (2) (01:07:27):
Great.
Matt (01:07:29):
I'm thinking podcasts will be done.
By 2047.
Amy (01:07:35):
Yeah, we'll be on to something else.
Matt (01:07:38):
But it's been fun for this one.
Amy (01:07:40):
Yep.
Matt (01:07:41):
So thanks for agreeing to finally do it.
I have tried once or maybe twicebefore.
And finally I had enough peoplethat demanded that Amy be a
guest.
And how dare I not have Amy as aguest.
That, uh, I finally said thiscan't continue.
Because they all think it's myfault.
Amy (01:08:03):
Thanks
Matt (01:08:03):
for doing it.
Amy (01:08:04):
They might regret their decision.
They're encouragement efforts.
Matt (01:08:06):
Not a chance, honey.
Not a chance.
There probably, there's going tobe a, uh, mass request for you
to take over as host,permanently.
Thanks for listening.
As always, we'll be back againin a couple weeks.
Thanks
Amy (01:08:24):
for having me.
Matt (01:08:25):
Tell your spouse thank you.
Make them tell you thank you.
See that it's a team effortthanks everybody.
Talk to you soon.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (01:08:37):
Thanks again for tuning in to
practically ranching.
If you're in the market forregistered females, we have a
nice set of spring open heifersthat will be ready to breed this
spring.
Emailme@mattperrier@dalebanks.com for
details.
And I'll get you the informationonce again, Merry Christmas.
God bless you all in 2025.
(01:08:58):
And we'll talk to you in a fewweeks.
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