January 16, 2025 • 60 mins
Sam Hands and his family own and operate Triangle H, a diversified cow-calf, farming and feeding operation near Garden City, KS.
Sam and daughter, Marisa Kleysteuber, provide the management and leadership for this progressive, quality-focused beef operation.
In this episode, Sam shares some of his outlooks on employee management, working with the younger generation; plus the lessons he has learned from his time at Kansas State University, the military and just careful observation of what motivates people to do their best.
And, of course, we talk quality beef production, challenges to farming and ranching in southwest Kansas and other production-related issues.
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Episode Transcript
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Microphone (Yeti Stereo (00:06):
Thanks for joining us for episode 67 of
practically ranching.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (00:10):
Brought to you by Dalebanks, Angus I'm
Matt Perrier.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mic (00:15):
Sam Hands could be described in a
number of different ways.
Cattle feeder, farmer, cow calfproducer, beef industry
visionary, leader.
You know, he and his family'scompany, triangle H land and
cattle have set the bar high forquality cattle for quality beef
(00:37):
production.
They've won everything from thecertified Angus beef programs,
feed yard, commitment toexcellence award a couple of
years ago.
To most recently the covetedEarl Brook over award for the
top indexing steer at a, the2024.
Beef empire days in garden city.
So sure.
(00:58):
We talk a little bit aboutquality beef production in the
feed yard business, and the manyand issues that are involved in
that endeavor.
But in addition to thoseproduction oriented types of
traits, Sam has another qualitythat I really, really
appreciate.
He's a great family man, a greatboss, a great person.
(01:20):
In fact, this episode kind ofcame about because a friend of
mine and former member of ourcrew here at Dalebanks Angus
Brian Watts.
Uh, used to work for Sam beforehe was here at Dale banks.
And now out in the panhandle,Oklahoma.
You know, Brian always commentedabout how well Sam managed his
team, their triangle H so Iwanted to kind of dig a little
(01:43):
deeper and find out what Sam'sspecial sauce is here.
He shares some of his outlookson employee management on
working with his daughter,Marisa, and the next generation,
their triangle H.
Plus the lessons that he'slearned from his years at Kansas
state university, and of coursegrowing up in Southwest Kansas,
(02:04):
even his experience as amilitary officer and just.
Uh, observation of whatmotivates people to do their
best.
You know, every time I'm aroundSam, I learned something.
And even though I had a fewtechnical difficulties with
this, week's recording again.
Uh, I hope you'll learnsomething too.
(02:26):
I think, um, Sam has a lot toshare, and I know that you'll
enjoy our conversation with Sam,Hands, Triangle H, Land cattle
from garden city, Kansas.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (02:38):
Well, I've been very blessed, but
actually, two sides of my dad'sfamily both came to this part of
the country out here in westernKansas, but actually out of my
dad's mother's side, the Allemanside, we have been here 150
years.
my great, my great grandfatherAlleman, he, at 16 years of age,
(03:00):
he saddled up one night and ranaway from home.
And so he, he left a horsebackat 16 from Illinois.
He went down into the Fort Wortharea and worked down there.
He did cattle drives from there,clear up into Montana.
Primarily kind of settled downinto the Dodge City, Panhandle
area, doing the runs between thePanhandle to Dodd City.
(03:24):
So he was a roaming cowboy for anumber of years.
In fact, he was out in this partof the country before he Garden
City even became to be.
And then he later settled downand established a family here in
the late 1800s.
The Hands family moved in here,oh, right around 1900, but
(03:48):
primarily those earlier years itwas dryland farming and running
some cattle in general.
As time went along, oh, I knowat the time that I, I was a
infant.
My parents, like most of the,those in the neighborhood,
(04:08):
milked a few cows.
In fact, they talk about howthey sit the high chair out
there in the barn for me to sitin while mom and dad milk cows
and that was a line of businessto start the day.
But, it was right at, seven,about 75 years ago that, dad and
my grandfather Vesto drilledtheir first well for flood
(04:31):
irrigation.
So, that's when this countryreally started changing as we,
Brought in flood irrigation,pulling water up from the
Ogallala aquifer.
So first it was flood primarily,growing grain, sorghum and
wheat, which has been growingdry land, it's just now it was
irrigated.
And, then it was there in the,sixties that, the sprinkler
(04:56):
irrigation started coming tothis part of the country.
And so, you know, at the time mybrothers and I were students up
at K State in the late sixties,early seventies, Things weren't
necessarily that, promising outhome, so to speak, but it was
changing pretty fast.
But there, it was interestingthat as I was finishing up at K
(05:22):
State and had my time commitmentwith the military ahead of me, a
lot of my fellow college friendsI went to school with says,
gosh, I'm about ready tograduate.
I don't know what to do.
Where am I going to go?
Well, things Are starting todevelop between irrigation out
in Western Kansas, the cattlefeeding industry and everything.
I says, Well, you might take alook out west.
(05:45):
We've got a few things happeningout there.
I think it could be a greatopportunity.
When I get back from theservice, they're all out here.
I mean, there was a time Iprobably had went to school with
every feedlot manager in westernKansas.
But, you know, things havechanged over time from those
five to ten, five to tenthousand head feed yards.
(06:06):
Now we're dealing with fifty toa hundred thousand head feed
yards from the corporate leveland all that.
And it's a whole new marketing.
criteria out there as well, but,our operation's been fortunate
to grow.
I mean, as my brothers and Icame back in the 70s and
developed, again, the company weknow as Triangle H Grain and
(06:26):
Cattle Company, we werebasically a tenant.
We farmed for fam, familymembers and particularly a lot
of neighbors, helped themdevelop their land into
irrigation.
and went from there.
we had a cow calf operation thatactually I'd had the privilege
to start with dad when I wasnine years old, back in 57.
(06:49):
And so we had a few cows, and sowe expanded the cow program as
well as expanded the farmingfrom dry land to irrigated
farming.
But just like our cow calf, Ifeel very fortunate to actually
be able to trace them back, to.
1957, but, started AI in 68, andwe established, due to the lack
(07:13):
of having native range out inour operation, started
establishing cool seasonirrigated grass there in 73.
So, knocking on wood to date,we've been in cool season
irrigated grass for cow calf forover 50 years.
Now, some of that's, some ofthat's happened to change due to
(07:33):
declining water table, butthere's various ways to
accomplish that, between,technology and the irrigation
systems and varieties and soforth but still the cow calf and
farming has been our base but aswe started marketing on the rail
we had acquired some ground thathad a grow yard that we were
(07:58):
using in that same fashion andwe said well maybe we just want
to do our own finishing.
And so that's how we kind of gotstarted finishing.
So after having fed totally inthe commercial yards for 25
years, we, started feeding onour own.
And today we do some of both,but primarily do our own
(08:18):
feeding.
And as USPB came along, like Isay, we bought in there and
that's been a very good baselineprogram for us.
It's, helped us in gatheringdata because back in the 80s and
90s particularly.
I mean my wife and I spent a lotof time in the coolers gathering
that data so we'd have thatparticular old cow calf.
(08:39):
But now today anything thatcomes into our feed yard has a
three way ID system, the ranchtag.
The lot tag with an ID systemand EID.
So, we have three forms ofidentification and so we have
the initial weight and theoutgoing, carcass weight that we
(09:01):
can work from.
And, so it's been fun to watchthat data come together and help
producers do a better job yearto year.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (09:09):
Yeah, no doubt about that.
Well, Sam, you and I alwayscover a pretty wide swath of,
discussion points and issues.
When we run into each other at ameeting, or what have you we
could, I could throw aboutanything at you that I wanted
to, but, instead of our typicaldiscussions about fed cattle
marketing and value basedmarketing and cattle feeding and
(09:33):
things like that.
A couple of the things I want totouch on revolve around people
and, whether it be familygenerational transitions, or.
employee relations, you, I thinkhave an innate ability to, Kind
of figure out how and whatdrives people to do their best
(09:53):
in addition to what drivescattle to do their best.
I saw in an interview that youdid with certified Angus beef
program, you all won there.
Feeding quality excellence, award they're a few years ago.
And.
In that article, They quoted youas saying, but cattle don't
perform to their greatestpotential without the right
people.
(10:13):
I reoccurring question four.
And you said you and Marissa,your daughter is how to bring in
good employees and then helpthose employees grow and
develop.
you said we may not be a bigyard, but we feel there are some
natural niches where we can giveopportunities to a person to
have a career opportunity,especially those who may not be
in a position to marry into agor inherited.
(10:35):
And I think that, that says alot.
and a lot of us.
You know, whether we have a bigteam or not, a lot of us
struggle with making sure wecommunicate what it is we want
done to those around us.
And so I'd like you to sharejust a little of how, how you've
been able to do that.
Uh, they're triangulate throughthe years.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2 (10:54):
man, I think the biggest thing as we
start looking at, part of theteam, labor force, if you will.
that's outside the family is, isgetting them to buy into the
program just like they are afamily.
I mean, as my brothers and dad,and that's put the initial
(11:16):
Triangle H Grain and CattleCompany together back 50 years
ago, we received a salary andhad no employees, later had
employees, but.
You know, as a company,regardless of what we're doing
business wise, if employee isstrictly hourly and just there
(11:39):
to make the doughnuts, so tospeak, each morning, there's not
a lot of incentive to me forthose individuals to do better.
And I've always been realimpressed with operations.
And I think you and I have bothhave seen it.
Matt in board meetings.
You can be a dictator or you canbe a cooperator and a salesman.
(12:04):
So how do we as company owners,how do we get the rest of the
team to buy in?
And I think some of that has tobe is even though there's maybe
the basic ways that we all dothings, I think the more they
(12:26):
have some input on how thathappens, helps them buy into
that.
You know, as we, in our feedlot,as we feed cattle, yeah there's
a time frame it has to happenwithin and criteria we got to
follow, but there's just thoselittle deals that we do every
day that they can have anopportunity to buy in and help
(12:48):
make that process.
They're the ones out there inthe trees, so to speak.
Sometimes when we're all sittinghere working from the desk or
the phone, we may not see thetrees for the forest.
And they're amongst the trees.
So as they, as employees seethings day to day, and maybe
(13:08):
from past experiences, I thinkthat all can help, help letting
them buy into that program, Andat the same time, I think it's
real important for the employeesto, to understand what your
objective is.
Here at Triangle H, we've beenextremely blessed to have the
genetic pool of cattle that wework with.
(13:33):
But even more so, to help thatprocess develop.
We were fortunate enough to havebought in and become part of U.
S.
Premium Beef on the groundfloor.
So, that gave us a real definitetarget to, be working towards.
And I think that helped a lot.
(13:53):
it's just like at the end ofeach week, or even after we ship
cattle, our people, Not just theowners of the cattle, but our
people.
They want to know, what doescattle weigh?
How do they perform?
What do they do?
They want to know how they gradeit.
on the rail and so forth.
So, it helps them develop an eyefor those cattle reaching that
optimum end point.
(14:14):
the more eyes we got watchingfor the same thing, the better
job we're going to do.
So, I think getting, you know,Getting people to buy into the
program, but help them be a partof that decision making process.
You know, we're seeing somecompanies even get to the point
of actually letting employeeshave some actual physical
ownership.
It's not easy to do, but I thinkthere's a lot of merit to that
(14:37):
because we're all here for ashort time and we're all here to
try to be good stewards and goodservants.
Uh, not gonna take it with you.
So.
Help, help the ones comingforward, be a part of that
process.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (14:51):
Do you have some of those incentive
or ownership programs built intoday, or is that something
you're kind of considering forthe future?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01- (15:00):
Probably more for the future, it's been
discussed a number of times.
You know, we've worked various,bonus programs and that for
incentives to, do better,whether it be, covering death
loss or percent calf crop, allthese things.
But, biggest thing, just makingsure that everybody understands
(15:21):
the objectives, the goals andexpectations, but also let them
have some input on how we getthat mission accomplished.
You know, and one thing that'shelped particularly in our
feedlot side.
Marissa has done a lot ofcommunication, of course, today
with all the social media, butas cattle are sent in here by
(15:43):
the owners, by the time thesecattle arrive here, she's got a
written email manuscript of whenthose cattle were born, as much
information as you can about thecalf crop themselves as far as
description, what healthprograms they've had, what the
nutrition program has been todate, days since weaning, all
(16:07):
these factors.
and basically everybody knowswe're going to market through U.
S.
premium beef.
We have options to do differentif they so choose, but we've
pretty well got an outline fromthe owner of those cattle.
of what, what's arriving at ourdoorstep.
Because our objective is we'rejust not going to go to
(16:28):
standard, protocol, and theyautomatically get this in 24
hours.
We're going to adjust ourprogram to fit the cattle coming
in and help match it to bestwhere they can reach their
genetic potential.
our objective is not, sometarget that we've selected, Help
the cattle reach their geneticpotential and particularly our
(16:50):
target is towards high qualitybeef Through US premium beef.
that's our objective
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (16:57):
Yeah, I want to come back to that
quality mindset on you SPB.
But, I do want to.
Re track back and you'dmentioned.
Giving those employees, someautonomy and letting them buy in
to the program.
How do you figure out.
When they're ready.
And I know, obviously we try to.
(17:18):
Try to hire people that can takeit up pretty quickly, but,
there's always kind of a growthcurve and a learning curve.
how do you let them.
have enough rain.
without getting themselves introuble.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (17:31):
Well, and one thing I think that helps
a lot here, Grant, we're dealingwith our own cow calf operation
as well as feedlot where a highpercent of those cattle are
custom bases.
But, we can say we have astandard operating procedure
that we follow here, but again,we try to adjust that to fit the
cattle coming in, particularlyon the feedlot side and even in
(17:54):
our own cow calf.
I mean, as we go in wet yearsversus dry years or, market
cycles, well, we're going totweak and fine tune those,
normal procedures to fitaccordingly.
I think we all see it too oftenwhere somebody's hired on and
you just say, well, Joe, go outthere and do this, this, and
(18:15):
this, but we can't assume thatJoe knows what we mean by doing
this, this, and this.
I think it's, we kind of likethem to, shadow us for, maybe
it's only a day or two, but dosome shadowing with somebody.
to where they understand, okay,this is the procedure we follow.
These are the, that, that workhere.
(18:37):
Now, at the same time, ourencouragement is, maybe from
past experience, that they findthat they may say, well, had you
ever thought about trying this?
and that's where a place wherethey can kind of do some buying
in, is be open with some ideasto bring.
We have to be open to receivethe ideas, but then be willing
to offer those ideas.
(18:57):
But the bigger thing is we'll dosome shadowing to start with.
And then as we gain comfortzone, we give them more and more
freedom of reign, so to speak,to carry on.
But it goes back probably tosome of my, days as a officer in
the military after I got out ofcollege is, it sounds kind of
(19:19):
funny coming from that side.
But as I recall, that's where Ilearned.
And it was what the boss checks.
So, even though I want to givethem, the opportunity to develop
themselves and to do the bestthey can and, become personally
involved and take ownership, ifI don't do the follow up, How am
(19:45):
I really going to know whetherthat's the case?
I think over the years it's justkind of become something I
automatically look at and do,but it's that old criteria of
you plan, you organize,delegate, execute, evaluate, and
you just keep repeating that.
That's just an ongoing processyou do.
(20:08):
It's always been planning,organizing, delegate, execute,
and evaluate.
But as we talk about havingpersonnel being part of the
company, once we're past whatyou and I as a sole proprietor
can do, we either have to resortto the fact that this is as big
(20:31):
as we're going to be, or we'vegot to be willing to bring
others in.
As we bring others in, you'vegot more eyes and more physical
strength and all these things,but you also have another
opportunity to use another mind.
And so it's like a team ofhorses.
(20:52):
We need to make them everybodytry to make it to where
everybody's working together andnot go in different directions.
Now, as we've dealt with,bringing on personnel within the
company, I mean, we've, we'vehired out of universities and,
We've had people in therewithout, even a high school
(21:12):
education, but the biggest thingis being willing to work, show
up on time, and being willing towork, willing to learn.
I hope that as you start eachday, It's with excitement that,
well, what's Mother Natureprovided me as far as to work
(21:32):
with within the environmenttoday?
And, what kind of challenges dowe have before us that need to
be accomplished today in theoperation?
And we work our way through thatthrough the course of the day.
hopefully at the end of the day,as we're going Leaving the
operation and driving home to bewith our families we can look
(21:53):
back in the rearview mirror andsay, this is good.
I know I've had a brother that,that, has even accused me, says,
You spend too much time lookingat your cows.
You're always just out lookingat your cows.
At the time I said, well, Ienjoy it, but that's my
(22:15):
evaluation.
So, did our plan, organize,delegate, execute work?
Or what do we need to dodifferent?
You know, so, always have to reevaluate and re look at, Are we
meeting our goals?
Benchmarks or what do we need toadjust?
And I think it's no differentthan, gosh here we all watch,
(22:38):
spend all this time watchingthese football teams.
Well the coaches show up just asmuch as the players show up, but
they're always planning,organizing, delegating,
executing, and evaluating.
But the, I remember being toldthat back in my days of the
service, is what the boss checksgets done.
(23:00):
And that doesn't mean to beinsulting, but if you don't do
your part.
As a follow up, how can thatemployee get the,, feedback from
you as, did I do a good job ornot?
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mic (23:14):
Not to draw too many more parallels
to value-based marketing, butthat feedback that you talked
about, through us premium beef,and you've mentioned several
times, but that feedback thatyou're giving your employees.
Is fairly similar to thefeedback that you're getting
from the packer, from the gridon how your cattle did.
And I think.
(23:34):
You know, evaluation, you talkabout things like that.
I think.
There's quite a few parallelsbetween those, for sure.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025 (23:44):
I appreciate that, but yeah, it
was just like back in the 80sthere.
Yeah.
When basically the feedingindustry was what we call four
way colored cattle.
We brought all thesecontinentals into the industry
and you talk about a mongrel setof cattle out there.
There was no consistencythroughout the feeding industry
(24:05):
and, but yet every hoof broughtthe same price.
I don't care whether it was aset of roping steers.
or the best set of Dale Bankssteers in the country, they all
brought the same price.
So I became quite frustrated atthat point and started marketing
on the rail, just initially,just using the old grade and
yield system.
(24:27):
Now I found that, okay, we'dbeen beating everybody in the
feedlot as far as performance,but there was room for
improvement on the rail.
So we really started focusing onour genetics going forward.
And so we got tied in with IBPand we were allowed to ride
piggyback on Paul Engler'sformula that he had with IBP.
(24:52):
And so I had 10 years experienceof that before USPB even came
along, which was a blessingbecause we were where we needed
to be at that point in time andhave moved on from there.
But yeah, having that feedbackevery week.
to show us, well, maybe we're alittle early, maybe we're a
little late, but, yeah, we, we,we've adjusted rations as well
(25:16):
as implant program strategies,days on feeding everything to,
to try to hit that target thebest we can.
Now, the challenge part we haveprobably in our feeding
operation is we're totallydealing with.
other cow calf producers acrossthe country.
(25:37):
As compared to most of myneighboring feed yards that have
order buyers that are justbuying certain, certain sex,
certain weight of cattle.
And so as we deal with calfcrops, there's going to be more
variance in our pin of cattlethan maybe those bought by an
order buyer, but they'll be moreconsistent in the genetics.
(25:58):
But we will have to do somesorting to get them to realize
their genetic potential.
So they'll be the good old bigones go first, then kind of the
middles, and then it'll be thetail enders that, you know,
maybe they're the poor geneticsof the calf drop, and maybe
they're just the younger ones.
But here, um, Oh gosh, it's beennearly 30 years ago as we got in
(26:19):
that process of doing all thatwith that information available,
we developed our own index.
So, out of a calf crop of 100calves, let's say, we've got
them ranked top to bottom ontheir feedlot performance and
their carcass traits.
Now, what typically will happenwith the cow calf operator is,
(26:40):
well, I want them all to be justlike this top one.
And that's fine, but we say,more importantly, let's find why
those ones are on the bottom andlet's get rid of that bottom 10
percent and keep moving up fromthere.
But, it's been interesting tohave some feedback from them.
But, you know, one, one thingthat's, universal, I'd say,
(27:04):
whether it's our program or anyof these other.
corporate feed yards is theimportance of health.
if you were to watch, saleThrough Superior Livestock,
there's a segment in therethat's all on the beef cross
dairy calves.
And I've been kind of surprisedinitially about how those calves
(27:27):
may bring more money than thebeef calves you and I produce.
But the whole thing is there'svolumes, consistency,
traceability, and healthprograms.
And the health programs istremendously important these
days.
That's why Marissa works a lotwith helping the producers.
If they don't have a good healthprogram going on home, help them
(27:49):
get one established.
But coordinating that with whatwe do here because, you know,
back there in the, I'm gonna saythe 60s through 80s, when you
had your everyday commercialfeedlot going on out here, if
you weren't under a quarterpercent death, death loss as a
(28:09):
yard, you probably wouldn't stayin business very long.
Today, one and a half, twopercent becomes common practice.
A lot of that's just because oflack of labor.
But it isn't, it isn't that hardto do better, but it's when
you've got such large volumesand shortage of labor and
shortage of people.
(28:30):
trained labor, it's becomingmore challenging, but it's
amazing the technology that'sout there today to help us all
do a better job.
But that's where we have a realfortunate situation for us in
that we're working with fellowcow calf producers.
So we as a company, we look ateach one of those sets that come
(28:55):
in just like we do our own cowcalf operation And feel that
same importance that they do, Imean, uh, each animal is part of
their family, just like ours ispart of ours, and so we try to
keep that all in mind.
Part of it, I think, goes fromthe standpoint, back in those
(29:15):
earlier years in the feedlotbusiness of the, particularly
the 60s and 70s, you weredealing with more of yearling
cattle.
But then, as genetics and thathad all improved, you were
dealing with more calf feds.
But now, again, we've kind ofbeen full circle, in that,
there's a lot of these big yardstoday, they don't want to see
(29:35):
those animals until they're,weighing eight, nine hundred
pounds in about a year of age.
So, they've, yeah, our thousandsare exactly right.
I mean, back in your FlintHills, there's cattle that go
out to grass in the springbigger than they used to come
off the grass in the fall, youknow.
but, you know, and that buildson a whole new deal here we talk
(29:57):
about as we get this data on theend.
always evaluating that.
I mean, just like currently.
I'm jumping subjects here onyou, Matt, but just like
currently, due to where we arein the market cycle, the signals
say, just keep feeding them,just keep feeding them, make
them bigger, make them bigger.
Well, I'm just using roughnumbers, but basically when your
(30:21):
cost of gain is a dollar a poundand you're selling for two
dollars a pound, duh, it doesn'ttake a lot to figure that out.
But at the same time, we have tolook at the fact, there's two
things.
One, As we've all became veryproficient with EPDs from a cow
calf standpoint, when you addpositive to positive to
(30:41):
positive, what are you going toget?
Not a smaller animal.
You're going to get a biggeranimal.
Potential to get a biggeranimal.
But that's why the grade'sshowing up like it is and
everything.
But at the same time, I've beena little disappointed in our
feeding industry from thestandpoint of when we were
totally selling live.
(31:03):
Feed yards focused on feedefficiency.
that was the big thing, that anddeath loss was the big thing
they looked at, was feedefficiency.
Today, where they're all sellingon the rail, they sound like a
packer.
It's dressing percent, it'sdressing percent, it's dress,
and I'm, I get in some realtouchy arguments with people
(31:27):
about dressing percent because,It really has nothing to do with
what the consumer's getting toenjoy.
And so I think the question weas an industry got to be looking
at today is where's that optimumend point of feeding those
cattle to?
(31:48):
Because just more days on feeddoesn't give you more red meat.
And after so many days on feed,you're really probably not
changing the quality grade thatmuch either, but you are putting
more white tallow.
on the rail.
And so where's that optimumendpoint?
Because like in our part of thecountry out here where water's
(32:10):
and our aquifer is becoming morecrucial, if we're overfeeding
cattle, are we not just asguilty as the farmer that
overwaters his crop just to makesure he gets the big yield he
wants?
So whether we're a farmer or acattleman, we need to be more in
(32:31):
our optimum efficiency level.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (32:35):
What's it take for that to occur?
Is it the carrot or the stick?
We have to change.
The grids are.
Rule that we can't use this muchwater in Western Kansas.
what's it going to take to getto more of that optimum?
Endpoint and feeding and usage.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (32:54):
Well, I think we'd probably all agree
that the dollar bill driveseverything.
Supply and demand, the dollarbill drives everything.
And it's just like I say, weknow we don't need to be feeding
these cattle to weigh 1, 700pounds and have 50 percent fours
and 15 percent heavies and allthese kind of things.
(33:15):
We know that, but it still pays.
It economically pays right now,but I think we have to be more
mindful of our responsibility asof stewards of the land and
service to mankind to do what'sright.
(33:38):
you know, the on the Packerlevel is pounds, pounds, pounds.
I mean, if, if that chain shutsdown for some unfortunate
reason, they can tell you by thesecond what that costs them for
every, every fraction of aminute or whatever that's down.
(33:59):
It's amazing what our agindustry out here, whether it's
beef, pork, dairy, that theeconomy of scale they're
operating and with the laborforce they're working with.
It's amazing what they'regetting done.
But, um, I think we're in a veryfortunate situation here in the
(34:19):
beef industry.
And that, yeah, the Continentalsthat we brought in here during
the whole late 60s through 80s,they, they, uh, did a lot to add
production efficiency.
To our, uh, cattle in the feedyards and, uh,, more red meat
(34:39):
yield and all this.
But, like I say, by the time wegot into the 80s, we were
dealing with about a 45 percent,percent choice.
Well, thanks to the CertifiedAngus Beef Program, which I've
been totally privileged to havebeen not on the, not only the
decision making levels, but tohave been involved in various
(35:00):
aspects to watch that grow.
But Certified Angus Beef Programis, in my opinion, is what's
saved and made the beef industrywhat it is today.
And so, today, the consumerwants that high quality product,
but just like a gentleman I wastalking to here the other week,
he says, he says, you know, ouryoung people and kids today,
(35:23):
don't even think chickens have,have bones, you know, or have
chicken wings.
They just think, they think ofjust, you know, chicken tenders
and all these things.
I says, that's a very goodpoint, because, really, I think
we could do the same thing inthe beef, in that, Yes, those of
(35:43):
us on the elder side, we knowwhat a ribeye is supposed to be
like and so forth, but ouryounger sector beyond hamburger,
what do they really know orcare?
And so, how many, how manysteaks could we really turn that
ribeye into, uh, as long as it'sthick and juicy and has good
(36:04):
flavor?
So, I think, as a beef industry,we could probably do a, a lot to
increase the value of ourcarcass just with a knife.
Because economically, we'reprobably not going to back up,
uh, genetically, but with aknife, as long as we have thick,
juicy, flavorable cuts, theconsumer, I don't think they
(36:29):
really care what shape it is,just as long as it tastes good.
Is what I described, thick,juicy, and flavorable.
And again, I give a lot ofappreciation to certified Angus
beef, what they've done andaccomplished in that
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (36:44):
Yeah.
Now you're getting into severaltopics that we've had past
discussions here on practicallyranching about, uh, whether it
be portion size and.
Cutting those stakes intomultiple pieces and presenting
them different ways or, or whathave you.
Um, you also touched on one thatwe talked about.
Oh, gosh, about a year ago.
And, and that is.
(37:05):
How much longer can we afford tokeep raising the levels of corn?
Um, and other crops, but corn isprobably the one that gets the
most water and the most blame.
Um, can we keep doing that inSouthwest Kansas?
And if so, how?
And, and, um, What are you?
What do you see the future forirrigation there?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-202 (37:25):
In our, in our part of the world
here, where say 16 might be ournormal rainfall.
We don't, we don't, don't needto be trying to produce corn to
the level that Iowa and Illinoisis.
We need to have the appropriatevarieties planted in our part of
the country and supplementMother Nature what needs be so
(37:50):
that, again, they can reachtheir genetic potential.
But it's just like in thefeedlots here, we're talking
about the cattle, I mean, yeah,as we were talking about the,
um, the overall percents ofdeath loss and some of these
things.
As, as we saw over the years,the performance of these cattle
get better and better, uh, andinvariably we were seeing some
(38:17):
issues, which other feed yardshave as well, and that'd be,
what we call late deads in thefeeding period or
enterotoxemias.
Some of these issues, but whenyou got these cattle that
perform like the superstars do,you're really walking on thin
ice.
Now, a measure we took hereprobably close to 10 years ago
(38:40):
is, we actually brought moreroughage back into the diet, so
as to give more of a bufferthere and let those animals
truly operate.
as a ruminant rather than asimple stomach animal.
And that's, that's made a hugedifference.
So we kind of control how muchof that feeding period that
they're here is towards theharder finishing of it.
(39:03):
Even, even at that, uh, towardsthat end, we're watching our
implant program, but the amountof days we have on real, what we
call hard feed, even it's gotmore roughage in it than most
yards would.
Uh, we still kind of controlthat.
We have a lower ration that wewant to grow calves on and the
(39:24):
high percent of the feedingperiod is done in what we call
more of a transition ration thatthey'll still get the
performance there.
It's just not quite so hot to,so we don't, create an abusive
situation to cause problemsbecause guys share back in the
sixties, you know, finished yearmight weigh a thousand pounds.
(39:45):
Well today we got them going outat 700 pounds.
They don't have any more heartsand lungs than they did before.
You know, so you're, you'remaking that same engine do a lot
more work.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (39:57):
So we'll kind of switch back to the
people side of the businesshere, Sam.
As you've brought Marissa backinto your operation.
And I think that you said thereoffline that, um, all of your
brothers and you of course cameback, um, Back in the sixties,
but two of the nine cousins, Ithink that you said in Marisa's
(40:19):
generation or back, and, um, asyou've seen her and Tyler come
back.
What are some tips that youwould have for bringing that
next younger generation back andmaking it easy, making it as
easy as possible for them andfor you and employees and
everything else in thattransition.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025 (40:42):
I think one thing we've, we've all
seen is just in the case of ouroperation here with Marisa,
there's more and more of ouryoung ladies coming back into
the operations these days.
And that's very encouraging.
And, you know, and I think asMarisa came back and got
(41:03):
involvement there was probablysome resentment from the males
after thinking, well, I'm notgoing to have some young girl
tell me what to do.
You know, but, uh, the same timethey quickly saw that she was in
the trenches with them and therewasn't anything that they were
doing that she didn't do aswell.
(41:24):
And so once, once they got on,on line with her and, and
understood what her objectiveswere and, and worked together as
a team, I think they found it,um, very rewarding because she,
she's a, in her caseparticularly, she's a lot
(41:44):
better, what I'm going to referto as an HR person than I am,
you know.
Um, um.
You know, she has those peopleskills a lot better than, than I
do.
And, uh, but I, you know, our,our young people today, no doubt
think differently.
(42:05):
Uh, but just like during my daysback at K State, well, in my
generation time of going back toK State, we all needed
everything we could learn fromthe books.
We knew how to do the work.
We knew what cows were about.
We knew what corn was about.
We needed everything we couldlearn from the books.
(42:27):
Today's young people is just theopposite.
Even if they don't have a lot ofeducation, they know how to go
on social media and get moreinformation than I could ever
dream of, but they maybe don'tunderstand the basics.
What what needs to happen and soeven at our university levels,
hands on experience is moreimportant.
(42:48):
And so that's why I talk aboutshadowing when we bring new
people in.
We'd like to have them shadow.
For a while, till they getcomfortable with what our
process is, you know, I know shedoes a great job of trying to
make sure they.
Have the proper tools they need,whether it be trucks, pickups,
trailers, whatever, but theyneed to have the appropriate
(43:10):
tools and that to be the best.
or fancies or anything likethat, but have appropriate
tools, but then need tounderstand the objective of the,
of the job and, and, and theessence of the time.
As you, like I said,particularly in cattle feeding,
there's a, there's a, when weare pushing these cattle like we
(43:30):
do, the essence of time is, isreal important as well as what
we call reading the cattle inthe feed yards to make sure
that, that, uh, bunk managementand everything's happening,
happening appropriately and thatwe're monitoring.
What they're doing along, alongwith, with the, uh, with the
weather.
But, you know, as we deal withoperations, whether it's ranch,
(43:53):
farm, feedlot, dairies,whatever.
It's all about time.
I mean, there's the supply anddemand, dollars and cents.
But it's all about time, timeand location.
But the most expensive time anyof us can spend is redo.
(44:14):
So, that's why we feel it's soimportant to have, uh,
understanding what's expected towhere it's done right the first
time and in the appropriateamount of time, you know,
because redo time is extremelyexpensive, uh, and then
everything gets, gets behind.
But then there's kind of the oldcliche, leaves people scratching
(44:36):
their head a little bit, but Ithink we all have to stop and
think about it is, do we makethe time fit the job or the job
fit the time?
but as you know, as well asanybody, Matt, When working
cattle, faster is notnecessarily faster.
Sometimes slower is faster.
Just because you get it rightthe first time and you create
(44:59):
less stress, cattle and peopledon't experience any accidents
and so forth.
You know, as we're looking at,personnel issues, I know
something we try, try to do isas much as possible is, local,
(45:19):
because the positive about localis they're more apt to stay, you
know, you can find a superstarcoming from out of state, but
will they stay?
Okay.
You know, and so, local is veryvaluable, particularly out in
this part of the world.
(45:39):
I wish I was bilingual, ouryoung people that are bilingual
today are at a definiteadvantage.
Um, but I know we've, we've hada number of people from other
cultures come in and If there'sthat bilingual opportunity
within the company, it reallyhas a tremendous additional
(46:02):
value.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mi (46:03):
What are some other things Sam, that
you've kind of figured out havehelped you in creating that team
approach their triangle H.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (46:13):
we, we work to try to create a
timeframe here that people gethome in appropriate time and
safely and have time to spendwith their families and so
forth.
But, um, you know, I, of course,this all comes after the fact
that they're here, but are, arethey one that always find it a.
(46:38):
easy way to get out early, so tospeak, you know, or are they,
are they one of them making adifference in the day?
But the, the thing we've alsoworked with here, I know in the
big feed yards, they have kindof a rotational system of so
many days on many days off andall this.
And, and in their number ofpeople are dealing with, that's
(47:00):
about the only way they can doit.
We try to honor weekends as bestwe can.
Um, and work around that wherebasically our, primarily our
work happens Monday throughFriday for the most part.
Certain amount on Saturday andminimal on Sunday.
But we tried to to accommodateeverybody's needs as best we can
(47:26):
to where they could be to theKids basketball games and other
activities and home foranniversary and all these kind
of things the best best we can,as I said, it's, it's.
It's a privilege to be part ofthe food source here, providing
(47:48):
food for the world, but a lot ofresponsibility comes along with
that, and I think that's animportant thing to, uh,, try to
instill in our employees isevery human body that's born
needs nutrition and shelter, andyou're part of that, you're part
of that solution.
(48:09):
So, how can it, how can you on aday to day basis help, help do
your part to make sure mankindis taken care of for another
day?
You know, food and shelter wise.
But, uh, gotta remember theirindividual needs.
I mean, I had, I had a goodfriend, an associate from
(48:30):
another operation make thecomment.
It always stuck with me.
He says, I know when we getaround holidays and weekends,
it's always a struggle.
Who's going to be here and who'sgoing to work?
His comment was as owner you cango whenever you want to go, but
(48:52):
his point was take care of yourpeople first
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (48:55):
Yeah, I would agree completely.
And, um, Point.
Very well taken and spot on.
One thing that everybody alwaystalks about, whether this is the
motivating factor for peopledoing their job and staying with
their job or not.
Everybody talks aboutcompensation.
Hourly versus salary, additionalbenefits packages.
(49:19):
If you're at Liberty, you know,you're willing.
Um, how do you handle that attriangle H in terms of how, how
the folks are paid and rewardedfor the time they're dedicating
to you?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (49:34):
Uh, that way we try to avoid that
aspect of watching the clock.
You know, we got a job to do andto get done.
Uh, we try to monitor what, whatwe understand to feel is the
going, uh, wage for theterritory and living costs for
(49:55):
our area and these kind ofthings.
But at the same time, and I knowa lot of people get.
Particularly on the upper end ofthe operations get paid very
well, uh, with benefits that goalong with it.
But each, each person has a veryunique responsibility, and so we
(50:17):
want to make sure they're paidappropriately.
But kind of, one thing we seemedlike we've always noticed, that
as long as they have theappropriate amount of.
Uh, income to take care offamily needs and, and live
accordingly.
(50:38):
Time off is probably moreimportant than anything else.
So we try to, again, honor thosetimes off that they need to, uh,
to attend the kids events oranniversaries.
family outings, and I alwaysjokingly say that from about mid
(50:59):
November to mid January is oneof the toughest times of year
because how do you get everybodywhere they need to be on
Thanksgiving, Christmas, NewYear's, etc.
And we do a lot of the samething around Easter and 4th of
July and Labor Day, MemorialDay, all those different events.
But, um, going back to what thegentleman told me before is,
(51:20):
well, I can make an adjustmentand do that whenever.
I want to do it, but, try tohelp them have that privilege to
enjoy those days the best wecan.
At the same time, we, everybodyhere understands up front that,
um, not everybody is going to beable to be off on Christmas day.
So, at least a nucleus of peoplewill have to be here on
(51:41):
Christmas day.
as unfortunate as it is, but we,we, Do the best we can to try to
accommodate their wishes andneeds to where being part of the
food industry and particularlythe livestock industry is not a
(52:01):
negative, but they can holdtheir heads up high be proud of
what they're doing.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (52:08):
Yeah.
I think that.
Coupled with your perspectiveof, as you said earlier in the
podcast, how you approach thatday what's what's mother nature
got in store for me today.
And how am I going to deal withher challenges?
I mean that, that positiveoutlook and perspective, and
whether it be dealing withemployees and, and their
(52:28):
challenges or anything else thatcomes at.
Yeah, I think, um, Uh, it says alot.
And, In today's day and ageseems like everything has to be
written down and cleared throughan attorney or legal challenge
channels.
It doesn't sound like you have a150.
Pay each employee handbook andspecifying how many hours of
(52:50):
paid time off they get and howto request it and everything
else you just.
Make sure that if they'regetting the job done and they
need some time with family, youfigure out a way that somebody
else can help make it happen.
And then I think that.
A little bit of flexibility goesa long way in that.
in that regard.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (53:09):
And we do have a, you know, policy
that they're, each, eachperson's authorized X amount of
days off through the course ofthe year.
And, you know, and really ifthey're all, all, all managed
properly, it's amazing how manydays off they have.
Now, we've been very blessed atthe same time as Very seldom
(53:33):
does anybody use all their days,but it's not a use or lose.
So, if they don't use all theirdays for the year, it goes in
the bank, so to speak.
So, at that point in time, whenthey make a change of vocations
or retire, it's money in thebank.
basically, as a person comes onboard, here's my recall is is
(53:56):
out of a course of 365 days.
Potentially, you've got 85 ormore days off a year.
Available, you know, that'sbasically through the, through
the course of the year out ofout of a month, you'll have.
Yeah.
3 weekends, it'll just be 1 day1 weekend will be 2 days, but
then X amount of days forholidays and and a couple of
(54:20):
weeks of paid vacation as well.
We don't, we don't have as many,you might say, sitting on the
bench waiting to get called aswe used to.
Everybody's pretty, pretty fullycommitted, but everybody
understands that.
Okay.
I'm going to have to cover for.
Jake here tomorrow, but he'll becoming to me the next day and so
(54:42):
forth.
So, but yeah, we've kind ofobserved that After X amount of
money Uh, time off is moreimportant and it's just like, I
heard just recently I had a, hada young, young man that got
engaged and all that and I says,sorry, I asked a few questions.
(55:04):
I says, well, the big thing youwant to be thinking about, I
says, I'm not, I'm not wantingyou to leave, but I says, you're
a bride to be, where is it thatyou and her are going to be
happy?
Because if mom is not happy,nobody's happy.
like that.
We've, we've, we've seen, we've,we've seen cases over the years
(55:25):
where, that has been, that'sbeen a big issue.
So that we, when we see thatcoming up as a potential, we, we
want to challenge them becauseI'd, I'd rather get it done up
front than to have to deal withit later.
because I want their marriageand their family life to be
successful.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (55:46):
That pretty well sums up the entire
conversation, and how you havehad that success with Triangle
H, and with keeping everybodygoing in the right direction.
I mean, you can go clear back tothe KSU days when you told a few
of your buddies that WesternKansas is where it's at.
(56:07):
And by the time you got backfrom the service, they'd started
feed yards and were on the frontedge of it.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13 (56:12):
creepy bee for anything You want.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (56:12):
You were on value based marketing
before value based marketing waseven cool.
And so you were ready to takeoff with U.
S.
Premium Beef when it came about.
Um, you seem to have a bit of avisionary approach in seeing
what's about to happen and notjust talking about it, but
actually doing it.
Doing it, even if it is, likeyou said, that young employee
(56:33):
that you can tell he or she, thespouse is probably not going to
love being and doing what it isyou're doing.
And so we need to talk aboutthis and think about this for it
becomes a problem.
And that's, that's what I thinkall of us have to do, whether it
be with employee relations orgeneration transfer, or even
(56:54):
just cattle management andhandling, it's, it's a, you
gotta be looking longterm.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2 (56:58):
deal with Well, it is and like I
said, it's, I think it's aunique blessing to be involved
in a situation where we are partof the food, food industry and,
even though our part may be verysmall, but just to know that we
can hopefully make, make adifference.
And again, I'm real proud of thebeef industry and that.
(57:21):
And of course, you talk aboutthings out here.
I mean, underground water iswhat made our.
country has a success it's had,but there's also a lot of our
country out here that doesn'thave that underground water and
they also have been successful.
And part of it is, at leastamongst the people out here is,
and maybe it's just the natureof the people that are willing
(57:43):
to come out here, is that theykind of have a can do attitude.
I mean, they just won't take nofor an answer, you know.
They, they will find a way tomake it work
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (57:58):
I always cherished my
opportunities, cause I didn'tknow a lot of folks from
southwest Kansas till I went toK State.
And, um, not to say one region,but, there was a, and you called
it, can do attitude, I call itrabid capitalism.
They, they approached achallenge that I would have
(58:22):
said, well, I don't know, whatare the neighbors going to say
if I did something like that?
And they'd be like, pony up,let's borrow the money and go.
And I mean, no questions asked.
Let's roll.
It was just a little differentway of, of, uh, yeah, you gotta
be, you gotta be a tough oldbird to live in 16 inch or less
rainfall and a drought everyother year and
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (58:44):
Well, it's very, very true and you
know, as you go on, on, uh,West, it's, uh, more, more of
that case, more of that case allthe time.
Um,
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (58:53):
You bet.
Well, Sam, I appreciated abunch.
This has been a fun discussion.
It always is when I'm around youand it doesn't matter what topic
we're on.
It seems like you've got apretty good handle on all of
them.
And so, um, again, congrats oneverything you've done this far,
the best to the family and, sureappreciate you being on today.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (59:14):
Well, thanks, Matt, to have the
opportunity.
I feel an honor to be part ofyour podcast system and, enjoy
the discussion appreciate theleadership of all you young
people for our industry goingforward.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mi (59:26):
Once again, thanks for tuning in to
practically ranching.
We appreciate you being here andall your support.
If you like what we're doing,right.
This show, share it withsomebody you think would enjoy
it.
And we'll keep trying to crankout the content.
All the best to you.
As we start into our winter andspring calving seasons across
(59:47):
the nation.
Be sure.
And take care of yourselves andyour family.
As well as the livestock duringthese, uh, These upcoming weeks
and months in the cold.
So all the best.
And we will talk to you againsoon.
Thanks for joining us for episode 67 of
practically ranching.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (00:10):
Brought to you by Dalebanks, Angus I'm
Matt Perrier.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mic (00:15):
Sam Hands could be described in a
number of different ways.
Cattle feeder, farmer, cow calfproducer, beef industry
visionary, leader.
You know, he and his family'scompany, triangle H land and
cattle have set the bar high forquality cattle for quality beef
(00:37):
production.
They've won everything from thecertified Angus beef programs,
feed yard, commitment toexcellence award a couple of
years ago.
To most recently the covetedEarl Brook over award for the
top indexing steer at a, the2024.
Beef empire days in garden city.
So sure.
(00:58):
We talk a little bit aboutquality beef production in the
feed yard business, and the manyand issues that are involved in
that endeavor.
But in addition to thoseproduction oriented types of
traits, Sam has another qualitythat I really, really
appreciate.
He's a great family man, a greatboss, a great person.
(01:20):
In fact, this episode kind ofcame about because a friend of
mine and former member of ourcrew here at Dalebanks Angus
Brian Watts.
Uh, used to work for Sam beforehe was here at Dale banks.
And now out in the panhandle,Oklahoma.
You know, Brian always commentedabout how well Sam managed his
team, their triangle H so Iwanted to kind of dig a little
(01:43):
deeper and find out what Sam'sspecial sauce is here.
He shares some of his outlookson employee management on
working with his daughter,Marisa, and the next generation,
their triangle H.
Plus the lessons that he'slearned from his years at Kansas
state university, and of coursegrowing up in Southwest Kansas,
(02:04):
even his experience as amilitary officer and just.
Uh, observation of whatmotivates people to do their
best.
You know, every time I'm aroundSam, I learned something.
And even though I had a fewtechnical difficulties with
this, week's recording again.
Uh, I hope you'll learnsomething too.
(02:26):
I think, um, Sam has a lot toshare, and I know that you'll
enjoy our conversation with Sam,Hands, Triangle H, Land cattle
from garden city, Kansas.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (02:38):
Well, I've been very blessed, but
actually, two sides of my dad'sfamily both came to this part of
the country out here in westernKansas, but actually out of my
dad's mother's side, the Allemanside, we have been here 150
years.
my great, my great grandfatherAlleman, he, at 16 years of age,
(03:00):
he saddled up one night and ranaway from home.
And so he, he left a horsebackat 16 from Illinois.
He went down into the Fort Wortharea and worked down there.
He did cattle drives from there,clear up into Montana.
Primarily kind of settled downinto the Dodge City, Panhandle
area, doing the runs between thePanhandle to Dodd City.
(03:24):
So he was a roaming cowboy for anumber of years.
In fact, he was out in this partof the country before he Garden
City even became to be.
And then he later settled downand established a family here in
the late 1800s.
The Hands family moved in here,oh, right around 1900, but
(03:48):
primarily those earlier years itwas dryland farming and running
some cattle in general.
As time went along, oh, I knowat the time that I, I was a
infant.
My parents, like most of the,those in the neighborhood,
(04:08):
milked a few cows.
In fact, they talk about howthey sit the high chair out
there in the barn for me to sitin while mom and dad milk cows
and that was a line of businessto start the day.
But, it was right at, seven,about 75 years ago that, dad and
my grandfather Vesto drilledtheir first well for flood
(04:31):
irrigation.
So, that's when this countryreally started changing as we,
Brought in flood irrigation,pulling water up from the
Ogallala aquifer.
So first it was flood primarily,growing grain, sorghum and
wheat, which has been growingdry land, it's just now it was
irrigated.
And, then it was there in the,sixties that, the sprinkler
(04:56):
irrigation started coming tothis part of the country.
And so, you know, at the time mybrothers and I were students up
at K State in the late sixties,early seventies, Things weren't
necessarily that, promising outhome, so to speak, but it was
changing pretty fast.
But there, it was interestingthat as I was finishing up at K
(05:22):
State and had my time commitmentwith the military ahead of me, a
lot of my fellow college friendsI went to school with says,
gosh, I'm about ready tograduate.
I don't know what to do.
Where am I going to go?
Well, things Are starting todevelop between irrigation out
in Western Kansas, the cattlefeeding industry and everything.
I says, Well, you might take alook out west.
(05:45):
We've got a few things happeningout there.
I think it could be a greatopportunity.
When I get back from theservice, they're all out here.
I mean, there was a time Iprobably had went to school with
every feedlot manager in westernKansas.
But, you know, things havechanged over time from those
five to ten, five to tenthousand head feed yards.
(06:06):
Now we're dealing with fifty toa hundred thousand head feed
yards from the corporate leveland all that.
And it's a whole new marketing.
criteria out there as well, but,our operation's been fortunate
to grow.
I mean, as my brothers and Icame back in the 70s and
developed, again, the company weknow as Triangle H Grain and
(06:26):
Cattle Company, we werebasically a tenant.
We farmed for fam, familymembers and particularly a lot
of neighbors, helped themdevelop their land into
irrigation.
and went from there.
we had a cow calf operation thatactually I'd had the privilege
to start with dad when I wasnine years old, back in 57.
(06:49):
And so we had a few cows, and sowe expanded the cow program as
well as expanded the farmingfrom dry land to irrigated
farming.
But just like our cow calf, Ifeel very fortunate to actually
be able to trace them back, to.
1957, but, started AI in 68, andwe established, due to the lack
(07:13):
of having native range out inour operation, started
establishing cool seasonirrigated grass there in 73.
So, knocking on wood to date,we've been in cool season
irrigated grass for cow calf forover 50 years.
Now, some of that's, some ofthat's happened to change due to
(07:33):
declining water table, butthere's various ways to
accomplish that, between,technology and the irrigation
systems and varieties and soforth but still the cow calf and
farming has been our base but aswe started marketing on the rail
we had acquired some ground thathad a grow yard that we were
(07:58):
using in that same fashion andwe said well maybe we just want
to do our own finishing.
And so that's how we kind of gotstarted finishing.
So after having fed totally inthe commercial yards for 25
years, we, started feeding onour own.
And today we do some of both,but primarily do our own
(08:18):
feeding.
And as USPB came along, like Isay, we bought in there and
that's been a very good baselineprogram for us.
It's, helped us in gatheringdata because back in the 80s and
90s particularly.
I mean my wife and I spent a lotof time in the coolers gathering
that data so we'd have thatparticular old cow calf.
(08:39):
But now today anything thatcomes into our feed yard has a
three way ID system, the ranchtag.
The lot tag with an ID systemand EID.
So, we have three forms ofidentification and so we have
the initial weight and theoutgoing, carcass weight that we
(09:01):
can work from.
And, so it's been fun to watchthat data come together and help
producers do a better job yearto year.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (09:09):
Yeah, no doubt about that.
Well, Sam, you and I alwayscover a pretty wide swath of,
discussion points and issues.
When we run into each other at ameeting, or what have you we
could, I could throw aboutanything at you that I wanted
to, but, instead of our typicaldiscussions about fed cattle
marketing and value basedmarketing and cattle feeding and
(09:33):
things like that.
A couple of the things I want totouch on revolve around people
and, whether it be familygenerational transitions, or.
employee relations, you, I thinkhave an innate ability to, Kind
of figure out how and whatdrives people to do their best
(09:53):
in addition to what drivescattle to do their best.
I saw in an interview that youdid with certified Angus beef
program, you all won there.
Feeding quality excellence, award they're a few years ago.
And.
In that article, They quoted youas saying, but cattle don't
perform to their greatestpotential without the right
people.
(10:13):
I reoccurring question four.
And you said you and Marissa,your daughter is how to bring in
good employees and then helpthose employees grow and
develop.
you said we may not be a bigyard, but we feel there are some
natural niches where we can giveopportunities to a person to
have a career opportunity,especially those who may not be
in a position to marry into agor inherited.
(10:35):
And I think that, that says alot.
and a lot of us.
You know, whether we have a bigteam or not, a lot of us
struggle with making sure wecommunicate what it is we want
done to those around us.
And so I'd like you to sharejust a little of how, how you've
been able to do that.
Uh, they're triangulate throughthe years.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2 (10:54):
man, I think the biggest thing as we
start looking at, part of theteam, labor force, if you will.
that's outside the family is, isgetting them to buy into the
program just like they are afamily.
I mean, as my brothers and dad,and that's put the initial
(11:16):
Triangle H Grain and CattleCompany together back 50 years
ago, we received a salary andhad no employees, later had
employees, but.
You know, as a company,regardless of what we're doing
business wise, if employee isstrictly hourly and just there
(11:39):
to make the doughnuts, so tospeak, each morning, there's not
a lot of incentive to me forthose individuals to do better.
And I've always been realimpressed with operations.
And I think you and I have bothhave seen it.
Matt in board meetings.
You can be a dictator or you canbe a cooperator and a salesman.
(12:04):
So how do we as company owners,how do we get the rest of the
team to buy in?
And I think some of that has tobe is even though there's maybe
the basic ways that we all dothings, I think the more they
(12:26):
have some input on how thathappens, helps them buy into
that.
You know, as we, in our feedlot,as we feed cattle, yeah there's
a time frame it has to happenwithin and criteria we got to
follow, but there's just thoselittle deals that we do every
day that they can have anopportunity to buy in and help
(12:48):
make that process.
They're the ones out there inthe trees, so to speak.
Sometimes when we're all sittinghere working from the desk or
the phone, we may not see thetrees for the forest.
And they're amongst the trees.
So as they, as employees seethings day to day, and maybe
(13:08):
from past experiences, I thinkthat all can help, help letting
them buy into that program, Andat the same time, I think it's
real important for the employeesto, to understand what your
objective is.
Here at Triangle H, we've beenextremely blessed to have the
genetic pool of cattle that wework with.
(13:33):
But even more so, to help thatprocess develop.
We were fortunate enough to havebought in and become part of U.
S.
Premium Beef on the groundfloor.
So, that gave us a real definitetarget to, be working towards.
And I think that helped a lot.
(13:53):
it's just like at the end ofeach week, or even after we ship
cattle, our people, Not just theowners of the cattle, but our
people.
They want to know, what doescattle weigh?
How do they perform?
What do they do?
They want to know how they gradeit.
on the rail and so forth.
So, it helps them develop an eyefor those cattle reaching that
optimum end point.
(14:14):
the more eyes we got watchingfor the same thing, the better
job we're going to do.
So, I think getting, you know,Getting people to buy into the
program, but help them be a partof that decision making process.
You know, we're seeing somecompanies even get to the point
of actually letting employeeshave some actual physical
ownership.
It's not easy to do, but I thinkthere's a lot of merit to that
(14:37):
because we're all here for ashort time and we're all here to
try to be good stewards and goodservants.
Uh, not gonna take it with you.
So.
Help, help the ones comingforward, be a part of that
process.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (14:51):
Do you have some of those incentive
or ownership programs built intoday, or is that something
you're kind of considering forthe future?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01- (15:00):
Probably more for the future, it's been
discussed a number of times.
You know, we've worked various,bonus programs and that for
incentives to, do better,whether it be, covering death
loss or percent calf crop, allthese things.
But, biggest thing, just makingsure that everybody understands
(15:21):
the objectives, the goals andexpectations, but also let them
have some input on how we getthat mission accomplished.
You know, and one thing that'shelped particularly in our
feedlot side.
Marissa has done a lot ofcommunication, of course, today
with all the social media, butas cattle are sent in here by
(15:43):
the owners, by the time thesecattle arrive here, she's got a
written email manuscript of whenthose cattle were born, as much
information as you can about thecalf crop themselves as far as
description, what healthprograms they've had, what the
nutrition program has been todate, days since weaning, all
(16:07):
these factors.
and basically everybody knowswe're going to market through U.
S.
premium beef.
We have options to do differentif they so choose, but we've
pretty well got an outline fromthe owner of those cattle.
of what, what's arriving at ourdoorstep.
Because our objective is we'rejust not going to go to
(16:28):
standard, protocol, and theyautomatically get this in 24
hours.
We're going to adjust ourprogram to fit the cattle coming
in and help match it to bestwhere they can reach their
genetic potential.
our objective is not, sometarget that we've selected, Help
the cattle reach their geneticpotential and particularly our
(16:50):
target is towards high qualitybeef Through US premium beef.
that's our objective
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (16:57):
Yeah, I want to come back to that
quality mindset on you SPB.
But, I do want to.
Re track back and you'dmentioned.
Giving those employees, someautonomy and letting them buy in
to the program.
How do you figure out.
When they're ready.
And I know, obviously we try to.
(17:18):
Try to hire people that can takeit up pretty quickly, but,
there's always kind of a growthcurve and a learning curve.
how do you let them.
have enough rain.
without getting themselves introuble.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (17:31):
Well, and one thing I think that helps
a lot here, Grant, we're dealingwith our own cow calf operation
as well as feedlot where a highpercent of those cattle are
custom bases.
But, we can say we have astandard operating procedure
that we follow here, but again,we try to adjust that to fit the
cattle coming in, particularlyon the feedlot side and even in
(17:54):
our own cow calf.
I mean, as we go in wet yearsversus dry years or, market
cycles, well, we're going totweak and fine tune those,
normal procedures to fitaccordingly.
I think we all see it too oftenwhere somebody's hired on and
you just say, well, Joe, go outthere and do this, this, and
(18:15):
this, but we can't assume thatJoe knows what we mean by doing
this, this, and this.
I think it's, we kind of likethem to, shadow us for, maybe
it's only a day or two, but dosome shadowing with somebody.
to where they understand, okay,this is the procedure we follow.
These are the, that, that workhere.
(18:37):
Now, at the same time, ourencouragement is, maybe from
past experience, that they findthat they may say, well, had you
ever thought about trying this?
and that's where a place wherethey can kind of do some buying
in, is be open with some ideasto bring.
We have to be open to receivethe ideas, but then be willing
to offer those ideas.
(18:57):
But the bigger thing is we'll dosome shadowing to start with.
And then as we gain comfortzone, we give them more and more
freedom of reign, so to speak,to carry on.
But it goes back probably tosome of my, days as a officer in
the military after I got out ofcollege is, it sounds kind of
(19:19):
funny coming from that side.
But as I recall, that's where Ilearned.
And it was what the boss checks.
So, even though I want to givethem, the opportunity to develop
themselves and to do the bestthey can and, become personally
involved and take ownership, ifI don't do the follow up, How am
(19:45):
I really going to know whetherthat's the case?
I think over the years it's justkind of become something I
automatically look at and do,but it's that old criteria of
you plan, you organize,delegate, execute, evaluate, and
you just keep repeating that.
That's just an ongoing processyou do.
(20:08):
It's always been planning,organizing, delegate, execute,
and evaluate.
But as we talk about havingpersonnel being part of the
company, once we're past whatyou and I as a sole proprietor
can do, we either have to resortto the fact that this is as big
(20:31):
as we're going to be, or we'vegot to be willing to bring
others in.
As we bring others in, you'vegot more eyes and more physical
strength and all these things,but you also have another
opportunity to use another mind.
And so it's like a team ofhorses.
(20:52):
We need to make them everybodytry to make it to where
everybody's working together andnot go in different directions.
Now, as we've dealt with,bringing on personnel within the
company, I mean, we've, we'vehired out of universities and,
We've had people in therewithout, even a high school
(21:12):
education, but the biggest thingis being willing to work, show
up on time, and being willing towork, willing to learn.
I hope that as you start eachday, It's with excitement that,
well, what's Mother Natureprovided me as far as to work
(21:32):
with within the environmenttoday?
And, what kind of challenges dowe have before us that need to
be accomplished today in theoperation?
And we work our way through thatthrough the course of the day.
hopefully at the end of the day,as we're going Leaving the
operation and driving home to bewith our families we can look
(21:53):
back in the rearview mirror andsay, this is good.
I know I've had a brother that,that, has even accused me, says,
You spend too much time lookingat your cows.
You're always just out lookingat your cows.
At the time I said, well, Ienjoy it, but that's my
(22:15):
evaluation.
So, did our plan, organize,delegate, execute work?
Or what do we need to dodifferent?
You know, so, always have to reevaluate and re look at, Are we
meeting our goals?
Benchmarks or what do we need toadjust?
And I think it's no differentthan, gosh here we all watch,
(22:38):
spend all this time watchingthese football teams.
Well the coaches show up just asmuch as the players show up, but
they're always planning,organizing, delegating,
executing, and evaluating.
But the, I remember being toldthat back in my days of the
service, is what the boss checksgets done.
(23:00):
And that doesn't mean to beinsulting, but if you don't do
your part.
As a follow up, how can thatemployee get the,, feedback from
you as, did I do a good job ornot?
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mic (23:14):
Not to draw too many more parallels
to value-based marketing, butthat feedback that you talked
about, through us premium beef,and you've mentioned several
times, but that feedback thatyou're giving your employees.
Is fairly similar to thefeedback that you're getting
from the packer, from the gridon how your cattle did.
And I think.
(23:34):
You know, evaluation, you talkabout things like that.
I think.
There's quite a few parallelsbetween those, for sure.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025 (23:44):
I appreciate that, but yeah, it
was just like back in the 80sthere.
Yeah.
When basically the feedingindustry was what we call four
way colored cattle.
We brought all thesecontinentals into the industry
and you talk about a mongrel setof cattle out there.
There was no consistencythroughout the feeding industry
(24:05):
and, but yet every hoof broughtthe same price.
I don't care whether it was aset of roping steers.
or the best set of Dale Bankssteers in the country, they all
brought the same price.
So I became quite frustrated atthat point and started marketing
on the rail, just initially,just using the old grade and
yield system.
(24:27):
Now I found that, okay, we'dbeen beating everybody in the
feedlot as far as performance,but there was room for
improvement on the rail.
So we really started focusing onour genetics going forward.
And so we got tied in with IBPand we were allowed to ride
piggyback on Paul Engler'sformula that he had with IBP.
(24:52):
And so I had 10 years experienceof that before USPB even came
along, which was a blessingbecause we were where we needed
to be at that point in time andhave moved on from there.
But yeah, having that feedbackevery week.
to show us, well, maybe we're alittle early, maybe we're a
little late, but, yeah, we, we,we've adjusted rations as well
(25:16):
as implant program strategies,days on feeding everything to,
to try to hit that target thebest we can.
Now, the challenge part we haveprobably in our feeding
operation is we're totallydealing with.
other cow calf producers acrossthe country.
(25:37):
As compared to most of myneighboring feed yards that have
order buyers that are justbuying certain, certain sex,
certain weight of cattle.
And so as we deal with calfcrops, there's going to be more
variance in our pin of cattlethan maybe those bought by an
order buyer, but they'll be moreconsistent in the genetics.
(25:58):
But we will have to do somesorting to get them to realize
their genetic potential.
So they'll be the good old bigones go first, then kind of the
middles, and then it'll be thetail enders that, you know,
maybe they're the poor geneticsof the calf drop, and maybe
they're just the younger ones.
But here, um, Oh gosh, it's beennearly 30 years ago as we got in
(26:19):
that process of doing all thatwith that information available,
we developed our own index.
So, out of a calf crop of 100calves, let's say, we've got
them ranked top to bottom ontheir feedlot performance and
their carcass traits.
Now, what typically will happenwith the cow calf operator is,
(26:40):
well, I want them all to be justlike this top one.
And that's fine, but we say,more importantly, let's find why
those ones are on the bottom andlet's get rid of that bottom 10
percent and keep moving up fromthere.
But, it's been interesting tohave some feedback from them.
But, you know, one, one thingthat's, universal, I'd say,
(27:04):
whether it's our program or anyof these other.
corporate feed yards is theimportance of health.
if you were to watch, saleThrough Superior Livestock,
there's a segment in therethat's all on the beef cross
dairy calves.
And I've been kind of surprisedinitially about how those calves
(27:27):
may bring more money than thebeef calves you and I produce.
But the whole thing is there'svolumes, consistency,
traceability, and healthprograms.
And the health programs istremendously important these
days.
That's why Marissa works a lotwith helping the producers.
If they don't have a good healthprogram going on home, help them
(27:49):
get one established.
But coordinating that with whatwe do here because, you know,
back there in the, I'm gonna saythe 60s through 80s, when you
had your everyday commercialfeedlot going on out here, if
you weren't under a quarterpercent death, death loss as a
(28:09):
yard, you probably wouldn't stayin business very long.
Today, one and a half, twopercent becomes common practice.
A lot of that's just because oflack of labor.
But it isn't, it isn't that hardto do better, but it's when
you've got such large volumesand shortage of labor and
shortage of people.
(28:30):
trained labor, it's becomingmore challenging, but it's
amazing the technology that'sout there today to help us all
do a better job.
But that's where we have a realfortunate situation for us in
that we're working with fellowcow calf producers.
So we as a company, we look ateach one of those sets that come
(28:55):
in just like we do our own cowcalf operation And feel that
same importance that they do, Imean, uh, each animal is part of
their family, just like ours ispart of ours, and so we try to
keep that all in mind.
Part of it, I think, goes fromthe standpoint, back in those
(29:15):
earlier years in the feedlotbusiness of the, particularly
the 60s and 70s, you weredealing with more of yearling
cattle.
But then, as genetics and thathad all improved, you were
dealing with more calf feds.
But now, again, we've kind ofbeen full circle, in that,
there's a lot of these big yardstoday, they don't want to see
(29:35):
those animals until they're,weighing eight, nine hundred
pounds in about a year of age.
So, they've, yeah, our thousandsare exactly right.
I mean, back in your FlintHills, there's cattle that go
out to grass in the springbigger than they used to come
off the grass in the fall, youknow.
but, you know, and that buildson a whole new deal here we talk
(29:57):
about as we get this data on theend.
always evaluating that.
I mean, just like currently.
I'm jumping subjects here onyou, Matt, but just like
currently, due to where we arein the market cycle, the signals
say, just keep feeding them,just keep feeding them, make
them bigger, make them bigger.
Well, I'm just using roughnumbers, but basically when your
(30:21):
cost of gain is a dollar a poundand you're selling for two
dollars a pound, duh, it doesn'ttake a lot to figure that out.
But at the same time, we have tolook at the fact, there's two
things.
One, As we've all became veryproficient with EPDs from a cow
calf standpoint, when you addpositive to positive to
(30:41):
positive, what are you going toget?
Not a smaller animal.
You're going to get a biggeranimal.
Potential to get a biggeranimal.
But that's why the grade'sshowing up like it is and
everything.
But at the same time, I've beena little disappointed in our
feeding industry from thestandpoint of when we were
totally selling live.
(31:03):
Feed yards focused on feedefficiency.
that was the big thing, that anddeath loss was the big thing
they looked at, was feedefficiency.
Today, where they're all sellingon the rail, they sound like a
packer.
It's dressing percent, it'sdressing percent, it's dress,
and I'm, I get in some realtouchy arguments with people
(31:27):
about dressing percent because,It really has nothing to do with
what the consumer's getting toenjoy.
And so I think the question weas an industry got to be looking
at today is where's that optimumend point of feeding those
cattle to?
(31:48):
Because just more days on feeddoesn't give you more red meat.
And after so many days on feed,you're really probably not
changing the quality grade thatmuch either, but you are putting
more white tallow.
on the rail.
And so where's that optimumendpoint?
Because like in our part of thecountry out here where water's
(32:10):
and our aquifer is becoming morecrucial, if we're overfeeding
cattle, are we not just asguilty as the farmer that
overwaters his crop just to makesure he gets the big yield he
wants?
So whether we're a farmer or acattleman, we need to be more in
(32:31):
our optimum efficiency level.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo (32:35):
What's it take for that to occur?
Is it the carrot or the stick?
We have to change.
The grids are.
Rule that we can't use this muchwater in Western Kansas.
what's it going to take to getto more of that optimum?
Endpoint and feeding and usage.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (32:54):
Well, I think we'd probably all agree
that the dollar bill driveseverything.
Supply and demand, the dollarbill drives everything.
And it's just like I say, weknow we don't need to be feeding
these cattle to weigh 1, 700pounds and have 50 percent fours
and 15 percent heavies and allthese kind of things.
(33:15):
We know that, but it still pays.
It economically pays right now,but I think we have to be more
mindful of our responsibility asof stewards of the land and
service to mankind to do what'sright.
(33:38):
you know, the on the Packerlevel is pounds, pounds, pounds.
I mean, if, if that chain shutsdown for some unfortunate
reason, they can tell you by thesecond what that costs them for
every, every fraction of aminute or whatever that's down.
(33:59):
It's amazing what our agindustry out here, whether it's
beef, pork, dairy, that theeconomy of scale they're
operating and with the laborforce they're working with.
It's amazing what they'regetting done.
But, um, I think we're in a veryfortunate situation here in the
(34:19):
beef industry.
And that, yeah, the Continentalsthat we brought in here during
the whole late 60s through 80s,they, they, uh, did a lot to add
production efficiency.
To our, uh, cattle in the feedyards and, uh,, more red meat
(34:39):
yield and all this.
But, like I say, by the time wegot into the 80s, we were
dealing with about a 45 percent,percent choice.
Well, thanks to the CertifiedAngus Beef Program, which I've
been totally privileged to havebeen not on the, not only the
decision making levels, but tohave been involved in various
(35:00):
aspects to watch that grow.
But Certified Angus Beef Programis, in my opinion, is what's
saved and made the beef industrywhat it is today.
And so, today, the consumerwants that high quality product,
but just like a gentleman I wastalking to here the other week,
he says, he says, you know, ouryoung people and kids today,
(35:23):
don't even think chickens have,have bones, you know, or have
chicken wings.
They just think, they think ofjust, you know, chicken tenders
and all these things.
I says, that's a very goodpoint, because, really, I think
we could do the same thing inthe beef, in that, Yes, those of
(35:43):
us on the elder side, we knowwhat a ribeye is supposed to be
like and so forth, but ouryounger sector beyond hamburger,
what do they really know orcare?
And so, how many, how manysteaks could we really turn that
ribeye into, uh, as long as it'sthick and juicy and has good
(36:04):
flavor?
So, I think, as a beef industry,we could probably do a, a lot to
increase the value of ourcarcass just with a knife.
Because economically, we'reprobably not going to back up,
uh, genetically, but with aknife, as long as we have thick,
juicy, flavorable cuts, theconsumer, I don't think they
(36:29):
really care what shape it is,just as long as it tastes good.
Is what I described, thick,juicy, and flavorable.
And again, I give a lot ofappreciation to certified Angus
beef, what they've done andaccomplished in that
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (36:44):
Yeah.
Now you're getting into severaltopics that we've had past
discussions here on practicallyranching about, uh, whether it
be portion size and.
Cutting those stakes intomultiple pieces and presenting
them different ways or, or whathave you.
Um, you also touched on one thatwe talked about.
Oh, gosh, about a year ago.
And, and that is.
(37:05):
How much longer can we afford tokeep raising the levels of corn?
Um, and other crops, but corn isprobably the one that gets the
most water and the most blame.
Um, can we keep doing that inSouthwest Kansas?
And if so, how?
And, and, um, What are you?
What do you see the future forirrigation there?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-202 (37:25):
In our, in our part of the world
here, where say 16 might be ournormal rainfall.
We don't, we don't, don't needto be trying to produce corn to
the level that Iowa and Illinoisis.
We need to have the appropriatevarieties planted in our part of
the country and supplementMother Nature what needs be so
(37:50):
that, again, they can reachtheir genetic potential.
But it's just like in thefeedlots here, we're talking
about the cattle, I mean, yeah,as we were talking about the,
um, the overall percents ofdeath loss and some of these
things.
As, as we saw over the years,the performance of these cattle
get better and better, uh, andinvariably we were seeing some
(38:17):
issues, which other feed yardshave as well, and that'd be,
what we call late deads in thefeeding period or
enterotoxemias.
Some of these issues, but whenyou got these cattle that
perform like the superstars do,you're really walking on thin
ice.
Now, a measure we took hereprobably close to 10 years ago
(38:40):
is, we actually brought moreroughage back into the diet, so
as to give more of a bufferthere and let those animals
truly operate.
as a ruminant rather than asimple stomach animal.
And that's, that's made a hugedifference.
So we kind of control how muchof that feeding period that
they're here is towards theharder finishing of it.
(39:03):
Even, even at that, uh, towardsthat end, we're watching our
implant program, but the amountof days we have on real, what we
call hard feed, even it's gotmore roughage in it than most
yards would.
Uh, we still kind of controlthat.
We have a lower ration that wewant to grow calves on and the
(39:24):
high percent of the feedingperiod is done in what we call
more of a transition ration thatthey'll still get the
performance there.
It's just not quite so hot to,so we don't, create an abusive
situation to cause problemsbecause guys share back in the
sixties, you know, finished yearmight weigh a thousand pounds.
(39:45):
Well today we got them going outat 700 pounds.
They don't have any more heartsand lungs than they did before.
You know, so you're, you'remaking that same engine do a lot
more work.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Micr (39:57):
So we'll kind of switch back to the
people side of the businesshere, Sam.
As you've brought Marissa backinto your operation.
And I think that you said thereoffline that, um, all of your
brothers and you of course cameback, um, Back in the sixties,
but two of the nine cousins, Ithink that you said in Marisa's
(40:19):
generation or back, and, um, asyou've seen her and Tyler come
back.
What are some tips that youwould have for bringing that
next younger generation back andmaking it easy, making it as
easy as possible for them andfor you and employees and
everything else in thattransition.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025 (40:42):
I think one thing we've, we've all
seen is just in the case of ouroperation here with Marisa,
there's more and more of ouryoung ladies coming back into
the operations these days.
And that's very encouraging.
And, you know, and I think asMarisa came back and got
(41:03):
involvement there was probablysome resentment from the males
after thinking, well, I'm notgoing to have some young girl
tell me what to do.
You know, but, uh, the same timethey quickly saw that she was in
the trenches with them and therewasn't anything that they were
doing that she didn't do aswell.
(41:24):
And so once, once they got on,on line with her and, and
understood what her objectiveswere and, and worked together as
a team, I think they found it,um, very rewarding because she,
she's a, in her caseparticularly, she's a lot
(41:44):
better, what I'm going to referto as an HR person than I am,
you know.
Um, um.
You know, she has those peopleskills a lot better than, than I
do.
And, uh, but I, you know, our,our young people today, no doubt
think differently.
(42:05):
Uh, but just like during my daysback at K State, well, in my
generation time of going back toK State, we all needed
everything we could learn fromthe books.
We knew how to do the work.
We knew what cows were about.
We knew what corn was about.
We needed everything we couldlearn from the books.
(42:27):
Today's young people is just theopposite.
Even if they don't have a lot ofeducation, they know how to go
on social media and get moreinformation than I could ever
dream of, but they maybe don'tunderstand the basics.
What what needs to happen and soeven at our university levels,
hands on experience is moreimportant.
(42:48):
And so that's why I talk aboutshadowing when we bring new
people in.
We'd like to have them shadow.
For a while, till they getcomfortable with what our
process is, you know, I know shedoes a great job of trying to
make sure they.
Have the proper tools they need,whether it be trucks, pickups,
trailers, whatever, but theyneed to have the appropriate
(43:10):
tools and that to be the best.
or fancies or anything likethat, but have appropriate
tools, but then need tounderstand the objective of the,
of the job and, and, and theessence of the time.
As you, like I said,particularly in cattle feeding,
there's a, there's a, when weare pushing these cattle like we
(43:30):
do, the essence of time is, isreal important as well as what
we call reading the cattle inthe feed yards to make sure
that, that, uh, bunk managementand everything's happening,
happening appropriately and thatwe're monitoring.
What they're doing along, alongwith, with the, uh, with the
weather.
But, you know, as we deal withoperations, whether it's ranch,
(43:53):
farm, feedlot, dairies,whatever.
It's all about time.
I mean, there's the supply anddemand, dollars and cents.
But it's all about time, timeand location.
But the most expensive time anyof us can spend is redo.
(44:14):
So, that's why we feel it's soimportant to have, uh,
understanding what's expected towhere it's done right the first
time and in the appropriateamount of time, you know,
because redo time is extremelyexpensive, uh, and then
everything gets, gets behind.
But then there's kind of the oldcliche, leaves people scratching
(44:36):
their head a little bit, but Ithink we all have to stop and
think about it is, do we makethe time fit the job or the job
fit the time?
but as you know, as well asanybody, Matt, When working
cattle, faster is notnecessarily faster.
Sometimes slower is faster.
Just because you get it rightthe first time and you create
(44:59):
less stress, cattle and peopledon't experience any accidents
and so forth.
You know, as we're looking at,personnel issues, I know
something we try, try to do isas much as possible is, local,
(45:19):
because the positive about localis they're more apt to stay, you
know, you can find a superstarcoming from out of state, but
will they stay?
Okay.
You know, and so, local is veryvaluable, particularly out in
this part of the world.
(45:39):
I wish I was bilingual, ouryoung people that are bilingual
today are at a definiteadvantage.
Um, but I know we've, we've hada number of people from other
cultures come in and If there'sthat bilingual opportunity
within the company, it reallyhas a tremendous additional
(46:02):
value.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mi (46:03):
What are some other things Sam, that
you've kind of figured out havehelped you in creating that team
approach their triangle H.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (46:13):
we, we work to try to create a
timeframe here that people gethome in appropriate time and
safely and have time to spendwith their families and so
forth.
But, um, you know, I, of course,this all comes after the fact
that they're here, but are, arethey one that always find it a.
(46:38):
easy way to get out early, so tospeak, you know, or are they,
are they one of them making adifference in the day?
But the, the thing we've alsoworked with here, I know in the
big feed yards, they have kindof a rotational system of so
many days on many days off andall this.
And, and in their number ofpeople are dealing with, that's
(47:00):
about the only way they can doit.
We try to honor weekends as bestwe can.
Um, and work around that wherebasically our, primarily our
work happens Monday throughFriday for the most part.
Certain amount on Saturday andminimal on Sunday.
But we tried to to accommodateeverybody's needs as best we can
(47:26):
to where they could be to theKids basketball games and other
activities and home foranniversary and all these kind
of things the best best we can,as I said, it's, it's.
It's a privilege to be part ofthe food source here, providing
(47:48):
food for the world, but a lot ofresponsibility comes along with
that, and I think that's animportant thing to, uh,, try to
instill in our employees isevery human body that's born
needs nutrition and shelter, andyou're part of that, you're part
of that solution.
(48:09):
So, how can it, how can you on aday to day basis help, help do
your part to make sure mankindis taken care of for another
day?
You know, food and shelter wise.
But, uh, gotta remember theirindividual needs.
I mean, I had, I had a goodfriend, an associate from
(48:30):
another operation make thecomment.
It always stuck with me.
He says, I know when we getaround holidays and weekends,
it's always a struggle.
Who's going to be here and who'sgoing to work?
His comment was as owner you cango whenever you want to go, but
(48:52):
his point was take care of yourpeople first
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (48:55):
Yeah, I would agree completely.
And, um, Point.
Very well taken and spot on.
One thing that everybody alwaystalks about, whether this is the
motivating factor for peopledoing their job and staying with
their job or not.
Everybody talks aboutcompensation.
Hourly versus salary, additionalbenefits packages.
(49:19):
If you're at Liberty, you know,you're willing.
Um, how do you handle that attriangle H in terms of how, how
the folks are paid and rewardedfor the time they're dedicating
to you?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (49:34):
Uh, that way we try to avoid that
aspect of watching the clock.
You know, we got a job to do andto get done.
Uh, we try to monitor what, whatwe understand to feel is the
going, uh, wage for theterritory and living costs for
(49:55):
our area and these kind ofthings.
But at the same time, and I knowa lot of people get.
Particularly on the upper end ofthe operations get paid very
well, uh, with benefits that goalong with it.
But each, each person has a veryunique responsibility, and so we
(50:17):
want to make sure they're paidappropriately.
But kind of, one thing we seemedlike we've always noticed, that
as long as they have theappropriate amount of.
Uh, income to take care offamily needs and, and live
accordingly.
(50:38):
Time off is probably moreimportant than anything else.
So we try to, again, honor thosetimes off that they need to, uh,
to attend the kids events oranniversaries.
family outings, and I alwaysjokingly say that from about mid
(50:59):
November to mid January is oneof the toughest times of year
because how do you get everybodywhere they need to be on
Thanksgiving, Christmas, NewYear's, etc.
And we do a lot of the samething around Easter and 4th of
July and Labor Day, MemorialDay, all those different events.
But, um, going back to what thegentleman told me before is,
(51:20):
well, I can make an adjustmentand do that whenever.
I want to do it, but, try tohelp them have that privilege to
enjoy those days the best wecan.
At the same time, we, everybodyhere understands up front that,
um, not everybody is going to beable to be off on Christmas day.
So, at least a nucleus of peoplewill have to be here on
(51:41):
Christmas day.
as unfortunate as it is, but we,we, Do the best we can to try to
accommodate their wishes andneeds to where being part of the
food industry and particularlythe livestock industry is not a
(52:01):
negative, but they can holdtheir heads up high be proud of
what they're doing.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo M (52:08):
Yeah.
I think that.
Coupled with your perspectiveof, as you said earlier in the
podcast, how you approach thatday what's what's mother nature
got in store for me today.
And how am I going to deal withher challenges?
I mean that, that positiveoutlook and perspective, and
whether it be dealing withemployees and, and their
(52:28):
challenges or anything else thatcomes at.
Yeah, I think, um, Uh, it says alot.
And, In today's day and ageseems like everything has to be
written down and cleared throughan attorney or legal challenge
channels.
It doesn't sound like you have a150.
Pay each employee handbook andspecifying how many hours of
(52:50):
paid time off they get and howto request it and everything
else you just.
Make sure that if they'regetting the job done and they
need some time with family, youfigure out a way that somebody
else can help make it happen.
And then I think that.
A little bit of flexibility goesa long way in that.
in that regard.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-20 (53:09):
And we do have a, you know, policy
that they're, each, eachperson's authorized X amount of
days off through the course ofthe year.
And, you know, and really ifthey're all, all, all managed
properly, it's amazing how manydays off they have.
Now, we've been very blessed atthe same time as Very seldom
(53:33):
does anybody use all their days,but it's not a use or lose.
So, if they don't use all theirdays for the year, it goes in
the bank, so to speak.
So, at that point in time, whenthey make a change of vocations
or retire, it's money in thebank.
basically, as a person comes onboard, here's my recall is is
(53:56):
out of a course of 365 days.
Potentially, you've got 85 ormore days off a year.
Available, you know, that'sbasically through the, through
the course of the year out ofout of a month, you'll have.
Yeah.
3 weekends, it'll just be 1 day1 weekend will be 2 days, but
then X amount of days forholidays and and a couple of
(54:20):
weeks of paid vacation as well.
We don't, we don't have as many,you might say, sitting on the
bench waiting to get called aswe used to.
Everybody's pretty, pretty fullycommitted, but everybody
understands that.
Okay.
I'm going to have to cover for.
Jake here tomorrow, but he'll becoming to me the next day and so
(54:42):
forth.
So, but yeah, we've kind ofobserved that After X amount of
money Uh, time off is moreimportant and it's just like, I
heard just recently I had a, hada young, young man that got
engaged and all that and I says,sorry, I asked a few questions.
(55:04):
I says, well, the big thing youwant to be thinking about, I
says, I'm not, I'm not wantingyou to leave, but I says, you're
a bride to be, where is it thatyou and her are going to be
happy?
Because if mom is not happy,nobody's happy.
like that.
We've, we've, we've seen, we've,we've seen cases over the years
(55:25):
where, that has been, that'sbeen a big issue.
So that we, when we see thatcoming up as a potential, we, we
want to challenge them becauseI'd, I'd rather get it done up
front than to have to deal withit later.
because I want their marriageand their family life to be
successful.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (55:46):
That pretty well sums up the entire
conversation, and how you havehad that success with Triangle
H, and with keeping everybodygoing in the right direction.
I mean, you can go clear back tothe KSU days when you told a few
of your buddies that WesternKansas is where it's at.
(56:07):
And by the time you got backfrom the service, they'd started
feed yards and were on the frontedge of it.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13 (56:12):
creepy bee for anything You want.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (56:12):
You were on value based marketing
before value based marketing waseven cool.
And so you were ready to takeoff with U.
S.
Premium Beef when it came about.
Um, you seem to have a bit of avisionary approach in seeing
what's about to happen and notjust talking about it, but
actually doing it.
Doing it, even if it is, likeyou said, that young employee
(56:33):
that you can tell he or she, thespouse is probably not going to
love being and doing what it isyou're doing.
And so we need to talk aboutthis and think about this for it
becomes a problem.
And that's, that's what I thinkall of us have to do, whether it
be with employee relations orgeneration transfer, or even
(56:54):
just cattle management andhandling, it's, it's a, you
gotta be looking longterm.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2 (56:58):
deal with Well, it is and like I
said, it's, I think it's aunique blessing to be involved
in a situation where we are partof the food, food industry and,
even though our part may be verysmall, but just to know that we
can hopefully make, make adifference.
And again, I'm real proud of thebeef industry and that.
(57:21):
And of course, you talk aboutthings out here.
I mean, underground water iswhat made our.
country has a success it's had,but there's also a lot of our
country out here that doesn'thave that underground water and
they also have been successful.
And part of it is, at leastamongst the people out here is,
and maybe it's just the natureof the people that are willing
(57:43):
to come out here, is that theykind of have a can do attitude.
I mean, they just won't take nofor an answer, you know.
They, they will find a way tomake it work
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (57:58):
I always cherished my
opportunities, cause I didn'tknow a lot of folks from
southwest Kansas till I went toK State.
And, um, not to say one region,but, there was a, and you called
it, can do attitude, I call itrabid capitalism.
They, they approached achallenge that I would have
(58:22):
said, well, I don't know, whatare the neighbors going to say
if I did something like that?
And they'd be like, pony up,let's borrow the money and go.
And I mean, no questions asked.
Let's roll.
It was just a little differentway of, of, uh, yeah, you gotta
be, you gotta be a tough oldbird to live in 16 inch or less
rainfall and a drought everyother year and
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (58:44):
Well, it's very, very true and you
know, as you go on, on, uh,West, it's, uh, more, more of
that case, more of that case allthe time.
Um,
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256 (58:53):
You bet.
Well, Sam, I appreciated abunch.
This has been a fun discussion.
It always is when I'm around youand it doesn't matter what topic
we're on.
It seems like you've got apretty good handle on all of
them.
And so, um, again, congrats oneverything you've done this far,
the best to the family and, sureappreciate you being on today.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13- (59:14):
Well, thanks, Matt, to have the
opportunity.
I feel an honor to be part ofyour podcast system and, enjoy
the discussion appreciate theleadership of all you young
people for our industry goingforward.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Mi (59:26):
Once again, thanks for tuning in to
practically ranching.
We appreciate you being here andall your support.
If you like what we're doing,right.
This show, share it withsomebody you think would enjoy
it.
And we'll keep trying to crankout the content.
All the best to you.
As we start into our winter andspring calving seasons across
(59:47):
the nation.
Be sure.
And take care of yourselves andyour family.
As well as the livestock duringthese, uh, These upcoming weeks
and months in the cold.
So all the best.
And we will talk to you againsoon.
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