March 12, 2025 • 61 mins
Bill Rishel and his wife, Barb, live near North Platte, Nebraska. Born and raised in Pennsylvania, he has always had a passion for Angus cattle and beef cattle improvement.
Bill will be honored in November with induction into the Saddle & Sirloin Portrait Gallery, and an in-depth synopsis of Bill's industry accomplishments may be found in this article:
Bill Rishel To Be Honored with 2025 Saddle & Sirloin Portrai
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Thanks for joining us forepisode 71 of Practically
Ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier, and we arehere.
Thanks to Dalebanks Angus, yourhome for practical profitable
genetics since 1904.
We're opening our spring privatetreaty bull offering this week,
so stick around at the end ofthe show to hear details about
the bulls.
You know, some of these podcaststake just a bit of planning and
(00:30):
preparation to get the guestsscheduled or talked into even
sitting down and recording withme.
Some others require me to do alittle bit of research and
preparation to figure out whattopics we wanna talk about.
This week's podcast tookneither.
It was definitely a spur of themoment conversation that took
(00:51):
place in the trade show at theCattle Industry Convention last
month.
And honestly, those aresometimes the best kind of
conversations that I have.
I've known Bill Rishel and hiswife, Barb, since I was a
teenager.
Bill served on the AmericanAngus Association Board of
Directors with my dad, and wevisited their ranch near North
(01:12):
Platte, Nebraska on our summervacation in the early nineties,
and I've always had a soft spotfor smart, passionate
storytellers in the beefbusiness.
So I've always enjoyed myconversations with Bill.
This episode is probably reallygonna play to some of you Angus
history buffs and cattlebreeders.
As we talk about a couple bullsand a couple breeders at some of
(01:35):
you may recognize.
And since we were at the CattleIndustry Convention, we also had
a really good discussion aboutBill's lifelong focus on the
consumer and his work with theBeef Checkoff Program and, and
even some of today's challengesand opportunities for cattlemen.
At 80 years.
Young Bill is still as sharp asever.
(01:57):
I edited these spots out, but atleast twice during our podcast
conversation, folks came up and.
Just started talking to Bill.
We had headphones on and amicrophone in front of us, but
it didn't stop him.
They wanted to catch up withtheir old buddy, Mr.
Rishel, and after carrying on aconversation for a minute or two
with these people, he turnedback to the microphone and pick
(02:20):
up exactly where he was inconversation 90 seconds before.
I don't know very many folks whoare half Bill's age and can
still do that.
After we finished up talking,Bill shared with me that he will
be honored as the 2025 inducteeinto the Saddle and Sirloin
Portrait Gallery at Louisvillethis fall, which is for most of
(02:42):
you listening, know that it'sone of the highest honors in the
livestock industry.
Bill's passion for and serviceto the beef industry is
impressive, but honestly, it'shis love of the people with whom
he has worked.
That's likely his most endearingquality.
This coupled with his quest forknowledge Make Bill one of those
(03:02):
guys from whom I can alwayslearn something.
So let's do just that as wevisit with Bill Rishel.
Matt (03:11):
If we get any place that you don't want to talk about,
you just say, that's classified,and we'll, cause I know how
proprietary, I've got so muchclassified information, I
wouldn't know where to start,the only difference with your
classified information and thatof the rest of the world is,
you've shared it for decades,begging people to actually use
(03:34):
it, right?
Bill (03:36):
How
Matt (03:36):
well you know, I think that's been the cool thing is,
and I need to introduce this isa little bit different than I've
done before, but I'm recordingwith Bill Rishel in the middle
of the U.
S.
Premium beef booth at the N.
C.
B.
A.
Trade show in 2025.
And I just ran past here.
(03:58):
And as we were shooting thebreeze and catching up on old
times between Angus stuff andfamily stuff.
Somebody came by and said, youknow, this would make a great
podcast.
And so guess what?
We pulled out the recorder andhere we are.
So as I was growing up, you wereon the American Angus board with
my dad.
That was the first place I metyou and Barb.
(04:19):
And actually I take that back.
I think we visited your place inNorth Platts a year or two
before, but somewhere in thatmid eighties time period.
Now, what I always appreciatedabout you was.
As hard as you worked atlearning new information, it
wasn't ever classified.
You wanted people to learn whatyou had learned, and then, in
(04:40):
reciprocal form, learn from themagain later on down the road,
which is something that I don'tknow that we see all the time in
industries.
Why did you do that?
BIF, American Angus Association,Nebraska Cattlemen, NCBA, NCA,
all the different things thatyou did.
Why?
Bill (2) (04:57):
Matt, that's a great question, and I appreciate the
opportunity to visit with youand your effort here.
And I think I can answer thatvery honestly by saying that
there were so many people thathelped me as a young person
growing up in this business,whether it was 4 H, judging
teams, or whatever the case mayhave been, that helped me in
(05:20):
many great ways.
Often not appreciating it untilmuch later in life and realized
that whatever I was able toaccomplish and do and amount to
anything, really, I owed a lotto those people and I felt
compelled to be able to sharewith other young people coming
along.
And I got a lot of thoseexperiences working with, uh,
(05:44):
judging teams from otheruniversities and colleges that
would come through Rishel Angusover the many, many years stop
in and want to know if we couldput some classes of livestock
together to help them with theirjudging team efforts.
And we did that and we did itwith an open mind and very
(06:05):
willing to kind of help thesekids try to become more
proficient at judging beefcattle in particular.
But I, I had a greatappreciation for that and what
it meant to me in my life.
And as a result.
Uh, I think that carried overand allowed me to do a lot of
that for other young people,especially college students, 4 H
(06:26):
people.
It, it didn't matter.
It's just the idea that thesepeople could go on and possibly
become a very, very importantpart of our industry.
And at the end of the day, I'vemaintained that thought process
all through my involvement withNCBA and other organizations.
that are very responsible forhelping to keep our industry
(06:49):
viable.
So that's about the best way Icould answer that for you, Matt.
Matt (06:54):
What was the, what was the hardest lesson that you learned?
Whether it be as a kid, as ayoung person in the beef
business, later in life, whatwas the hardest lesson you
learned, and maybe the best one?
Bill (2) (07:07):
I think, and my wife's sitting here with me right now,
and she may, she may kind of geta funny look when I say, I think
in many ways, the hardest lessonI've learned was to be a little
more patient than what I was ata, at a young age.
I, I don't know if I'veaccomplished that yet, but I
think
Matt (2) (07:24):
it is.
I was just about to ask you, howold were you?
Because I haven't learned ityet.
And Amy could attest, just likeBarb.
Bill (2) (07:33):
Well, I have, I just, I just have to tell you that I
think anyone who really has apassion for this industry, I
think it's difficult to havepatience because you want it to
happen right now.
I don't want to wait 283 days toget this calf.
No, no, no, I don't.
I, yeah, I, waiting for a newcalf crop, waiting for the
(07:54):
calves to buy a new herd bull.
It doesn't matter.
It's, it's, it's a difficultindustry.
It takes time.
And I think I have finallyrealized that, uh, that time
invested has been extremelyworthwhile.
So I believe that was difficult.
And I think I'm getting to apoint more.
While I can tell you one placewhere it really shows up is I've
(08:20):
never been opposed to using aherd sire before he was proven,
but I had some prerequisites andthat was, I had to know a lot
about his mother.
I had to know a lot about.
relatives and other cattle inhis pedigree and have some way
(08:43):
to determine what I thought thebreeding potential of that bull
was.
And, and I, so I have becomemore patient and maybe wait
until a bull's more proven.
One of my great mentors over theyears was a guy by the name of
Clarence Van Dyke, Van DykeAngus Ranch at Manhattan,
Montana.
And I tried to get Clarence topartner with me on a bull one
(09:07):
time a number of years ago,1981.
And he said, Oh, Bill, he said,you know, our program, he said,
we only use proven sires.
And I kind of chuckled.
I said, I know Clarence.
And I said, I'm not going topush you anymore to do this.
But I said, I know how much youlove great females.
(09:27):
And I'm pretty convinced thatthis bull will be a great female
sire.
And just to share with youraudience that may know this
name, the bull happened to beAAR New Trend..
Matt (2) (09:40):
So you would if you would be old enough and have
enough
Matt (09:43):
hairs like I have to know.
Bill (2) (09:45):
So that's that's one of my my very, very good
memories because I lovedClarence Van Dyke and his
ability as a cow man.
He had a he was in the Holsteincow business before he got in
the registered Angus business.
And he knew a lot about maternalvalue and milk and all of that.
I don't think that a lot of us,including me, until we got more
(10:08):
involved in this carcass effortand marbling, I don't, I don't
think a lot of people realized,like, I believe, this is my
belief, I can't back it up allthat much, but I think the
marbling trait in our Anguscattle today is very, very much
a maternal trait.
And I think that muscle in thesecattle is a masculine trait.
(10:30):
And actually, ribeye andmarbling have been extremely
antagonistic over the years whenyou're trying to improve these
cattle and, and what's in themwhen it comes to carcass merit.
So, that's just a sidebar afteryou live long enough and do
enough things in this industry,you eventually just start to
(10:51):
make certain comparisons inrelative Get relative ideas
about how these traits operate,what they do, and how they work.
Matt (10:58):
We, uh, we love as cattle breeders and geneticists to turn
causation into correlation andfigure out is this real or just
perceived?
And quite often we're guilty ofmaybe making something a
correlation that geneticistswould argue.
But, uh, yeah, I think we'veseen the same thing.
Bill (2) (11:18):
I know, Matt, that I just feel certain.
That you and I both believe thatwhat we have to do first and
foremost is continue to breedand produce cattle with very,
very strong maternal value tothem.
(11:38):
Because a cow herd doesn't havematernal value, and by that I'm
talking about fertility,reproduction.
And I'm talking about thatcalving interval that most
people don't talk much about atall.
But that calving interval is allabout economics and value and
money, whether you're purebredor commercial.
(12:00):
I've always really believed inthe fact that if I can breed a
set of cows that have thistremendous value of reproduction
and production and fertility andthose things that really matter
in calf crop percentage.
Live calves, that I could tearup the papers on my registered
(12:21):
cows if I had to if times gotreally, really tough and run
them as a commercial cow herdand still make money and compete
in the cattle business.
Matt (12:29):
I have argued with dad as we have looked at end of year
financials and assets and how wevalue things and he values our
cows at their commercial value.
Yeah.
And I argue with him that whenthe bank comes to look at that,
those cows are worth more thanthat.
Bill (2) (12:46):
No question.
Matt (12:47):
Yet, I think that that stands the test of time.
If you look at them, not justfrom the banker's standpoint,
but if you look at them withthat conservative approach as
nothing but a commercial cow,when it comes right down to
their market value, the rest isblue sky and BS.
Yeah.
If you look at it that way, Ithink you treat them.
(13:08):
Just like you said, you makesure that they pay their way,
that they are Yeah, I think cowfirst There's no question and
bull generator second
Bill (2) (13:15):
I think it impacts, it impacts the, uh, the way that
you breed and, and produce a setof cows that will keep you in
the cow business and and keepthe operation productive not
only productive but profitableat the same time.
So I, I'm proud to be a part ofan old school with your dad,
(13:37):
Tom, in that respect.
And, uh, I, I believe that withall my heart, uh, that it's real
easy to get derailed, if youwill, in a breeding program.
And the other thing while we'reon it is, you know, if you have
a really productive, I'm goingto say great set of cows.
(14:00):
You can buy the wrong bull andyou can breed some of the wrong
cattle, but your cow herd willcarry that and make them look
valuable for a while until thatdepth in that pedigree runs out
of power.
And then you say, how am I goingto fix this problem?
(14:21):
And so that's what we want tostay away from.
Matt (14:24):
And that's, I think, why, as you've alluded to, why you
can reach out there and mayberoll the dice and use an
unproven, slightly unprovenbull, as long as you don't do it
year after year, generationafter generation, until you find
yourself in a hole that you'vegot to breed yourself back out
of.
Bill (2) (14:41):
And Matt, quite honestly, as a registered
breeder, It's easier for me touse a bull that I raised in that
respect than to go out and buyone and spend a lot of money on
it.
You
Matt (14:53):
know something about the
Bill (2) (14:54):
cow.
Because you know something aboutthe mother and the grandmother.
And believe me, it is very, veryvaluable in that grandmother
just as much as the mother.
Matt (15:04):
So I want to go back.
You said something that I thinkis really interesting and may
fly in the face of some oftoday's discussions.
And that is that marbling isIt's a maternal trait or has not
a genetic correlation necessary,but at least a perceived
correlation.
Because I think a lot of thediscussions today would say
(15:24):
you're either one or the other.
You're either breeding for highmarbling or you're breeding for
maternal genetics and you'resaying they go hand in hand.
How do you see that and how haveyou seen that as you've read
cow?
Bill (2) (15:35):
Quite frankly, I don't have scientific proof of that at
all.
I want to make that clear toyour listeners.
But I will tell you that historyand records and looking at
records and studying them and inthe cow herd that we put
together, Uh, I can see thatmarbling trait appear to exhibit
(16:00):
more strength and more passingfrom generation to generation
through the female than I'vesires that will go ahead and
pass that trait fairly.
Fairly, uh, strongly, but, uh,I, uh, I just really feel like
it's a little stronger in thosematernal lines and cows carry it
(16:22):
and pass it on easier.
I, I'm not sure why that wouldbe, uh, and it's, it is
speculation on my part and Iunderstand that, so I don't want
to mislead anybody.
But that's what I think I'veseen in the records that I've
lived with and worked with.
Matt (16:39):
So I want you to do something for me.
I want you to define maternal.
In your, from your experience,your opinion, because I think
that has a fairly gray areaamongst some discussions.
What's maternal to Bill Rischel?
Bill (2) (16:56):
Maternal to me is, I mentioned it briefly here just a
little bit ago, and that iscalving interval.
Um, It's one of the mostimportant traits to a commercial
producer because of thetightness of a calf crop, the
uniformity of a calf crop whenit comes marketing time to
(17:18):
market your, your calf crop.
That, that calving interval iswhat creates a uniform calf crop
in a good cow herd.
So when we talk
Matt (17:28):
about that, that trait, maternal calving interval,
fertility, reproduction, We'veall been told in every study,
every genetics class, thatfertility and those maternal
traits are a fairly lowlyheritable set of traits.
(17:48):
which means they're affectedgreatly by how we manage the
environment.
Bill (2) (17:53):
Yeah, no question.
Matt (17:54):
So how, as producers, let's say seed stock producers.
As a commercial cow calfproducer, I think you just make
sure and you give themeverything that they need to
make sure they get bred.
But as seed stock producers whoare trying to let Mother Nature
help us make those selectiondecisions.
And find out which ones can getthe job done on grass and on a
(18:15):
little bit of supplement orwhatever the case may be.
When is enough managementenough?
And we don't overshoot therunway and hide some cattle that
won't breed under the normalenvironment.
Or is there?
Do we just make sure on a 2 fatmarket?
I think you
Bill (2) (18:30):
just, you just opened up a whole new subject.
We have plenty of time.
The point that I think needs tobe clarified and made clear,
particularly to a lot ofcommercial operators, and
sometimes I think there'scommercial operators that
understand this better than alot of purebred operators, but
that has to do with yourcontemporary grouping of this
(18:54):
calf crop and what you'reworking with, and to make sure
that you keep everything as evensteven as you can in your
contemporary groups, And theAngus Association will recommend
that you contemporary group thecalves out of your first calf
heifers separate from your maincow herd, right?
(19:14):
And that is because theadjustment factors in there to
get those calves off your firstcalf heifers to the same
supposedly equal librium orequal place of, of the rest of
the, the calf crop out of yourcows.
Uh, if you don't keep thosecontemporary groups in the right
(19:36):
sort, they can mess up all thedata, which means none of your
data is really worthwhileanymore.
And we, we can't forget thatissue.
That, uh, contemporary groupsproperly done are the reason why
the BIF and, and the breedassociations are successful.
(19:57):
With.
Their databases.
Matt (20:01):
And for those who may not be in the seed stock business, a
contemporary group, I guessyou're the guest, I'll let you
define it.
Bill (2) (20:09):
Contemporary group has to do, number one, I would say
sex of calf.
And number two, is birth date.
Yep.
And the age grouping.
Matt (20:22):
And all handled and treated the same way.
All handled and treated the
Bill (2) (20:25):
same way.
And that takes you all the waythrough ultrasounding data.
It takes you through any data onto, uh, performance testing, uh,
for bulls, gain testing.
And takes you beyond that to thepoint to where you're talking
about, uh, these cattle that arejust You know, being measured on
a level playing field is thebest way I can say it.
Matt (20:48):
Basically, we're attempting to take every
environmental advantage ordisadvantage that, that that
calf may have had and strip itdown so we know just what the
genetics were doing in thatcalf.
Matt,
Bill (2) (21:00):
I want to go back to one other thing here when I
talked about calving interval.
A number of years ago, I satdown and started going through
our records on this, on our cowherd.
And I found it extremelyfascinating that how many cows
that were now 3, 4, 5 years oldthat had calving intervals at
(21:24):
358 to 365 days of a calvinginterval.
And for anybody that'sinterested in that, all of
these, all of these cows thatI'm talking about were being
managed the same way and all ofthese cows were doing this when
(21:46):
the vast majority of ourbreeding was by artificial
insemination.
Right.
And as a commercial herd, if youcan do it AI ing on these
programs in a commercial herd,you can get into a situation
where, uh, They don't do any AI.
They turn out bulls becausebulls work 24 hours a day and
(22:08):
they get the job done And if ifyou can do this AI'ing like we
did we're pretty confident thatour commercial bull Customers
could do this turning bulls out.
Mm hmm, and that's the real realDifference that makes a
difference on why that's animportant trait You you run into
a bad batch of semen you runinto some bad management you run
(22:30):
into a Drought conditions runinto just a fertility problem
that never got corrected orbuilt right.
And all of a sudden, you know,the calving interval is going to
suffer greatly.
And commercial man just can'tmake a really good living
selling cattle and uniformitygroups with those kind of issues
(22:52):
going wrong.
Matt (22:54):
I just had this conversation at breakfast this
morning with a couple of folksand Troy Marshall was mentioning
one of the One of the drivers ofvalue to a feed yard is, since
we have provided so much growthpotential and so much, uh,
marbling and quality andeverything else in that carcass,
now what they're asking for isconsistency.
(23:16):
Consistency of outcome groups,and, and those are the things
that you're, I think, talkingabout.
And a lot of that is solved byage of that calf.
Bill (2) (23:25):
Yep.
Matt (23:25):
But also the genetics that are behind him or her and how
they perform at all steps alongthe way, whether it be calves,
yearlings, heifers, cows,whatever the case may be.
Yeah.
So, we talked about New Trend.
Yep.
He spurred on a, a new, a newdesign of cattle.
(23:47):
Tell me about what that bull didand maybe the selection and the,
the, the.
Many A.
I.
Sires that he either sired orwas grand sire of or cows that
he left and where your path wentafter you bought that New Trend
bull in the eighties.
Bill (2) (24:03):
Well, the background before that might be really
interesting to some of yourlisteners.
I managed and helped tomanage...
You know, we were scratching fora living and doing other things
besides building a cow herd atone time.
Managed a few Angus sales aroundthe country and one of those was
the Montana Angus Associationevery year in the fall had a Had
(24:27):
a sale at Billings called theNorthern International Livestock
Exposition sale and I got hiredby the Montana Angus Association
to go select those cattle andFor years they had this sale and
I don't think anybody wasselecting them all that much
But, uh, I decided I was goingto try and do it upright.
(24:48):
It had been averaging, theseopen heifers and bread heifers,
were averaging about$400, 450when I took that thing over.
And so, my goal was to go outand get on 30 ranches, at least,
minimum, and, and, uh, withthat, capture, a total of 50 to
60 heifer calves and bredheifers for that sale.
(25:13):
And over quite a few years inthe late seventies and early
eighties, uh, we built thatthing up to where we actually
were averaging somewhere betweenthree and 4, 000 on those
females.
And I decided that it was abouttime.
Maybe we find a good bull calfout of Montana.
(25:34):
Montana cattle were very popularand find a real good bull calf.
And I spotted one at ArntzenAngus Ranch at Christina,
Montana.
And when I went in, you know, inthose days, we didn't have all
these EPDs and all this data andeverything.
Not coming from Angus.
(25:54):
But most everybody, Montana wasone of the first states in the
nation after Virginia andNebraska and some other ones.
I don't know when Kansas startedthere.
It was later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But these states
Matt (26:09):
Beef Cattle Improvement.
Bill (2) (26:11):
Beef Cattle Improvement Associations was the
source and the record keepingentity of their herds.
But when I would walk into aperson's home after I wrote
these numbers down on thesecattle that I eyeballed, you
know, heifers or bred heifers,The amount of data I had was on
(26:35):
a three by five card.
It looked like a housewife wouldkeep her recipes in a box, you
know?
And and so,, that's what we weredealing with.
And when I talked to the Arntzenboys and told him I found a bull
calf out there that That I'dlike to put in the Nile and see
if we could sell a good bullcalf down there.
(26:55):
And he was different.
And I realized when I was doingthis that there might be some
blowback, because this was 1981.
And we were on that shift towardbigger, much bigger, very large
cattle.
But these were the early days ofit.
And this bull was anything but agiant.
(27:16):
But he had, he had a lot ofvolume.
He was very sound, he was agreat footed beast, and there
were things in his pedigree, andhad they gone wrong, and not to
my liking, Um, he probablywouldn't have amounted to much.
But if they went right, as theydid, then the rest of it was
(27:39):
going to be history.
And I was convinced, because ofmy knowledge of the sire of New
Trend, who was a Van Dyke bredbull, VDAR Shoshone 548.
The sire of his dam was a bullcalled Candler Forever 376, who
by the way was a sire daughtermating.
Bill (27:58):
Oh, that's right.
Which some
Bill (2) (27:59):
people will tell you not to do.
If it works, it's line breeding.
If it works, it's line breeding.
If it doesn't work, it'sinbreeding.
Exactly.
So, we had a lot of fun withthat over the years.
But, I also told him that day, Isaid, uh, You know, if we're
going to do this, you guys needto come up with a new name for
this bull.
(28:20):
And, and they said, we don'tknow anything about that, you
name him.
I said, I've been thinking aboutthis guys.
I said, I didn't have a lot oftime since we were out there in
the pasture coming into thekitchen table.
But I said, I would name himbecause of this background.
Very, very maternal.
The 376th is some of thesweetest great udder females in
(28:42):
the breed at that time.
The Shoshone side, on the otherhand, was really high milk
level.
And sometimes a little too muchwhite.
And the other issue would bethat, uh, Sometimes you get too
much milk and you haven't paidenough attention to udders.
You can really get into udderproblems.
And that's a labor problem thatnobody in this business should
(29:04):
want.
Or, or, or.
Create.
Right,
Bill (29:07):
right.
Bill (2) (29:07):
So those were all no-nos for me.
And the positive side was thatwhen he was a calf nursing his
mother, when I first saw him outthere in their pasture, the
pasture that he was running inand his mother were nearly all
VDAR Shoshone 548 daughters.
Oh, okay.
There wasn't a bad uttered cowin that whole pasture.
(29:28):
They were beautiful uttered.
They were full of milk and everytime those big bull calves that
were in that group of cows outthere come out from under the
cow, they were white from aboutmidway between their eyeballs,
clear down around their mouth,you know, their nose, the whole
deal.
They were just covered withmilk.
And, and I, I told him, I said,you know, I think this bull can
(29:49):
be a, a really valuable bull tobuild cow herds and to keep
maternal values straight inthese cattle, meaning looking at
it primarily from fertility.
Utters, soundness, longevity.
Longevity is a really big thingwe haven't talked about yet here
today, Matt.
But it's all part of this.
(30:09):
And longevity leads to the kindof females that can get you past
the time when they're amortizedin your breeding program and
start to really be profitablecows.
Make some money.
Comes time to make money.
So I said, why don't you just Isaid, well, use your Initials A.
A.
R.
Arntzen Angus Ranch and whydon't we just call him A.
(30:31):
A.
R.
New Trend and they looked at melike I'd lost my mind.
I think
Matt (30:37):
that's the only people that's ever looked at you that
way, right?
Bill (2) (30:41):
I think there's been other cases for sure.
But the whole point being isthat in the long run, the other
thing they asked me And this,this is really, I think this is
a special part of the wholedeal.
They finally looked at me andthey said, what do you think he
can bring there in that sale atthe Nile?
And I never tried to misleadanybody on anything or blow
(31:04):
smoke anywhere.
But I said, guys, I said, I, I'mnot going to go there because I
said, I can't promise anything.
I said, what would make you guyshappy?
And they said, well, it's 1981.
Let's keep all this inperspective.
And then
Matt (31:19):
goals.
For that perspective, what doyou, what would Bulls and Angus
Breed have been averagingnationwide in 81?
Bill (2) (31:27):
Probably nationwide across Oh Maybe more
Matt (31:33):
2, 000.
Boy, you may be right.
We've got the data.
I'll look it up.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, go ahead.
That would be
Bill (2) (31:38):
interesting.
Yeah, but The most fascinatingpart of the deal was they said
well in our sale He's probablywouldn't do more than about
twenty five hundred dollars AndI said, guys, I'm very, very
interested in this bull.
I said, I really believe in whatI just told you, and I'm willing
to put my money where my mouthis.
(32:00):
And I said, I would give you,I'd write you a check today for
2, 500 and put him on a truckfor North Platte, Nebraska.
But I said, I'm not here to dothat.
I am here to sell these cattlefor Montana breeders.
to their highest value possible,and I said, if I didn't follow
(32:21):
that belief in any way, I said,then I'm the wrong guy to be
sitting here with you.
And so the rest, he goes to theNile.
There was three guys bid on himthat day.
I was managing the sale and Iwas bidding on him.
Pat Goggins was the auctioneerand he was bidding on him.
(32:42):
And then Bob Sitz goes tobidding on him, and he took him
up to about somewhere around 7,500 8, 000.
He wasn't really, you know, hewasn't willing to gamble on him
too high, because I watched himbuy bulls for 20, 000 in a day.
Even then.
And, uh, finally the bull got tobuy 9, 500.
(33:03):
And Pat slammed the gavel downand says, sold Vermillion Ranch.
Matt (33:07):
Oh,
Bill (2) (33:09):
and I, I looked at Pat and I said, no, no, Pat.
I said, that's my bid.
And he looked at me like, whatin the world is wrong with you,
young man?
And so this is such a greatstory.
And, uh, so he said, okay.
He fired her back up and hesays, 10, 000.
(33:29):
I went, yes.
He goes, bam, sold.
That's a true story.
And, and of course, all things,I mean, I heard all kinds of
stories about how Bill Ruschelgot stuck with that bull.
Oh, that's great.
And, and of course, you know,had, had to buy him, but I
couldn't, it couldn't have beenmore untruth to that ever.
(33:52):
I wanted the bull and I thoughtI knew what was there.
And history's proved that to beabsolutely correct.
There's a lot of people who wishthey would have gone 10 5.
And should have gone 10 5.
Really, quite honestly, it wouldhave improved 90 some percent of
the cow herds in the country atthat point in time.
Matt (34:10):
Yeah, he did a lot.
And he did so many things sowell.
And things that, you know,you're talking about foot
soundness and athleticism andlongevity.
Things that I'm not sure atleast at Dale Banks Angus in
1981 or two that we were evenconsidering because we didn't
feel like we had an issue withit, but he added growth and
(34:32):
added marbling and things thatwe weren't even marbling.
We weren't even measuring it andmilk and milk.
And you'd be surprised how manyhis
Bill (2) (34:39):
daughters were those average to short generation
interval.
Yep.
Calving intervals and stayedforever.
Stayed stability, longevity.
He was truly one of the greatsires of the era and in fact Van
Dyke's went back and finallyused him even though he didn't
partner on him to start with andthey produced guess who?
(35:02):
Nutrient 315.
Yep, who sold for?
73, 000 in their bull sale thatspring and I'd say he went to
Sydenstrickers, by the way inMexico, Missouri So, it was,
there's a lot of great memoriesfrom all of that.
Uh, special things that youstore away and, and it's such a
(35:23):
treat to even bring them up andvisit with somebody about it,
you know, because it's prettyspecial.
Matt (35:28):
Well, and again, the traits that you were looking at
then, I don't know if there'sstill AAR New Trend Semen
around, but I guarantee there'dbe some folks saying, that's
exactly what we need right heretoday.
And I mean, he was doing it,what now, 40 some years ago.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah.
Bill (2) (35:49):
So, uh, oh, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say,you know, you said the traits
we're after today, and quitehonestly, to be, to develop and
produce a great herd of cows.
They're the traits that arefundamental to anybody's
building a cow herd.
They're timeless.
Timeless.
That's a great
Matt (36:09):
word.
Profitability, regardless ofwhat it is that we're selling on
the, on the revenue side ofthings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we, we walked a little downmemory lane.
Um, what do the letters C, A,and B bring up in your memory?
And what can you tell us aboutthe early days of the Certified
(36:31):
Angus Beef Program that you wereso ingrained in and helped drive
and keep going forth?
Bill (2) (36:40):
I, being fairly active, and this wasn't the
early days, CAB was actuallystarted in 1978.
for some reason, I've been abeliever in that most of my
life, and that is, I grew up,Matt, and you'll remember some
of this, but most of ourknowledge or drivers or people
(37:03):
who influenced our industrywe're professors at major land
grant institutions, and really,many of them extremely valuable
and good people.
But As the industry would lookto them for the pecking order or
the pyramid of quality from thetop of that pyramid to the base,
(37:25):
and it started at the top with apurebred Angus breeder.
And I came to a point in time inmy life where I thought, this
isn't right.
Yeah, I believe in the purebredindustry and what have you, but
I don't care what the breed is.
Nobody was talking about aconsumer anywhere, and I
couldn't make sense out of that.
(37:47):
I just really struggled withthat, and when people made fun
of New Trend as a bull in ourplace and on, some of the folks,
you know, because he wasn't thebiggest bull in the breed,
started calling him new toadinstead of And for those who
don't know, that's a definition.
(38:10):
Of an animal's not real big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he'd weigh 22 or 23 hundredcoming out of a set of cows when
he was two and a three year old.
Yep.
Long, long, long.
I mean long hip, long bodied.
Um, he had a little old bentdown ear because he got in a
fight with a Horned HerefordBull one day that jumped in from
across the fence.
(38:30):
And it gave him a cauliflowerear but he whipped the bull hard
enough he went back home.
And then people.
Well, and a few years later wehad some five year old daughters
of him in production and thestate tour was coming to
Nebraska and we were on it.
And I put all new trenddaughters in the lot right out
(38:52):
in front of the auction barnthere on the place.
And they all had these big bullcalves on them, you know, that
were just massive.
I mean, the kind that make yourmouth water.
And about two or three producerson that trip came up to me
personally and said, Aren't youafraid you're going to get your
cows too big?
Ha ha ha! You mean the ones outof toad?
(39:14):
Yeah, out of the old toad bull,you know.
So, had a lot of fun with thatover the years.
It, it was, uh It didn't definehim at all correctly, you know,
I mean Really economic traitsthat were really valuable and
still are and always will beWe're still there and it didn't
(39:35):
have a whole lot to do with howbig a frame bully was He caused
he cast a big shadow.
I can tell you that you know for
Matt (39:42):
sure Literally and figures.
Yes.
Yes So one other thing youmentioned was the fact that
Clarence Van Dyke moved from thedairy business to the registered
Angus business.
and there were a lot of folkswho did that in those days.
No question.
What would those guys if theyfast forwarded and we're still
(40:03):
with us today and in 2025 sawthe whole beef on dairy
phenomenon?
How ironic to them.
But How do you look at that andgoing forth?
Do we see that grow?
Is it going to stay just asstagnant as it, because we've
got an X number of dairy cows?
Or where do you see that goingin the future?
Bill (2) (40:24):
You're talking about beef dairy cross?
Correct.
Yes.
I, I've got some perspective andsome ideas on it.
Um, you know my activity andinvolvement with NCBA over the
years.
At one time, we had that groupat NCBA called Research and
Knowledge Group, and under that,there was one committee called
Product Enhancement.
(40:46):
And that's where we did all themuscle profiling work for the
industry, as well as looking at,uh, these values of dressed
cattle and, and what have you.
It was, uh, it's beenfascinating because, and, and I
think, 2001 or 2004, maybe itwas, we had one of the beef
(41:09):
quality audits that I happenedto be on.
And, uh, when the data came inon that, it was, they gathered
more information than any othertime of a beef quality audit.
And by more information, I mean,you know, all the way from
through the feedlot performance,onto the, the packing industry,
(41:31):
the packing house.
And with that, they gatheredinformation on heifer harvests,
steer harvests.
They gathered information on theHolstein steer population in the
industry, which had never beendone before, but it ended up
being one of the most in depthstudies of our cattle in the
(41:54):
industry and where we were withwhat's going on.
And so I got invited to go todinner with, uh, Bo Reagan and
Dr.
Gary Smith, who was at ColoradoState.
And I really all meet scientistguys that were fabulous, very,
very helpful to the industry.
And they sat there worried thatnight about presenting this
(42:16):
information because when theygot the data back, the Holstein
population in that harvest dataproved to be Uh, let me get this
right.
I want to say it exactly right.
The whole steam population inthat entire database that they
gathered from large numbers ofthem graded about 8.
(42:41):
5 percent prime, if I'mremembering the numbers
correctly, when the hugepopulation with them included on
a national basis of our, ourgeneral beef harvest, steer
harvest, and heifer harvest, theaverage for prime was two to two
and a half percent.
So with that background, I'vealways known that these Holstein
(43:03):
cattle are another reason why Imight be thinking about maternal
and in relation to marblingbecause this influenced my
thinking and back me up thatthey were, they were produced
for milk.
Milk is a maternal trait andthey were selected for that
almost totally.
So why wouldn't there be arelationship with maybe this
(43:25):
marbling thing, when you seethat kind of data, you know,
coming back and representing it.
Now, we've talked about some ofthe good things in it.
Uh, the good news for the dairyindustry is, they're not getting
these big, big, overgrown, roughframed, mixed amount of muscle
(43:46):
in them.
That's the reason they'vecrossed, uh, A lot of them with
other breeds of beef bulls,heavier muscled cattle, trying
to get more muscle on them.
The thing they haven't fixedyet.
And the thing that I think willbe a real problem for the retail
sector of our industry is theuniformity of the ribeye.
These ribeyes in these dairysteers, if you take straight
(44:08):
Holsteins, they're not biground, big ribeyes that smile at
you.
They're, they're pretty narrow.
They, they look a little bitmore like cattle that just.
They'll slab sided.
Don't have a lot of muscle inthem per say.
And so, until they get thatfixed, and get more uniformity
for that retail case, I thinkthat's their biggest issue to
(44:31):
overcome.
Matt (44:32):
And of course, as they select those sires, those beef
sires to use on those dairycows, I know that marbling is
one thing, and, and You know,rib eye area or red meat yield
or muscle is another and, and,and they're figuring out some
lines that help them get closerto a beef.
No question.
And the consistency of marblingis there because they're so
(44:56):
closely related.
Those, that cow herd has beenselected for years and years and
years.
They've used AI.
There's, you know, maybe almostinbred is to go back to our
earlier discussion.
And so there is a ton ofconsistency there and they're
all raised.
I mean, you talk aboutcontemporary groups, dairy to
(45:16):
dairy to dairy, they may have alittle different feedstuffs, but
their management is very, verysimilar compared to us cowboys
that all are going to do itdifferently.
So I think that's my, Ishouldn't say fear, but that's
a, that's something that I guessI'm concerned about the
consistency of our beef cattleas they have to quote unquote
(45:39):
compete against.
It's a more consistent beef ondairy.
And I never thought that I wouldeven say that that was
competition because it's allbeef.
It's all beef.
But, uh, there, there are somereasons there that we have to
make sure that we produce alevel of consistency that, that
rivals that.
Bill (2) (45:58):
You know, uh, we're, we're talking about this and I
started earlier talking aboutthat pyramid with the purebred
breeder at the top, right?
And it came to me in the late80s after my struggles with New
Trend and how a lot of thatplayed out.
It just came to my mind when Itold her what happened on that
(46:18):
tour that day about those guysworried about us getting our
cows too big.
I said, there's so much aboutthis industry that just when I
think about it, I said, it'sjust not common sense and it's
kind of borderline, you know,just.
Not a smart way to look atthings.
(46:38):
Insanity?
Yeah, borderline, borderline.
And so, uh, I said, we've got tofigure out something different
here, and a different way to goabout this business, or I need
to find something else to do.
And she said, well, what wouldyou do?
And I said, I don't knowanything else.
I said, I guess we just have to,and then we had a guy working
(46:59):
for us, and I said, if we getout of this business at this
point, She said, what are wegoing to do for Kenny?
And I said, well, I don't know,but he's not going to go
anywhere and make what we'repaying him.
Yeah.
I just wasn't going to happen.
And so, um, I, I said, we've gotto get a better handle on
(47:19):
identifying those economicvalues and merits that have to
do with consumer acceptance andbeef demand.
And of course to say that in the1980s was still about 10 years
ahead when beef demand finallyturned and went up.
Right.
That was about 98, 99.
That's correct.
Yeah.
The
Matt (47:37):
bottom was 96.
Yep, that's right.
I like to say that's when Igraduated from Kansas State
University and entered the beefindustry.
You're responsible for Eversince then, Bill, if you look at
that chart, I mean, we've beenon a race to the top.
Matt (2) (47:52):
Because it couldn't have gone much worse
Matt (47:53):
than we were in the beef industry selling 50 to 60 cent
cattle.
That's so true.
Yeah.
Matt (2) (48:00):
That's
Matt (48:00):
so true.
Matt (2) (48:01):
But
Matt (48:02):
I think that as as As visionary as we see that today,
you were, you were certifiablynuts back then, right?
Talking about marbling.
Why in the world would we focuson a trait that nobody pays us
for?
How many times did you hearthat?
A lot.
Yeah.
A lot.
(48:22):
All by the pound.
Every feed yard you went tountil 1996, 7, 8.
Well, I was all going to, wasall going to be sold for the
same price, Matt.
I remember
Bill (2) (48:33):
going to San Diego, California for an NCBA
convention.
When one of your fellowbreeders, Jan Lyons in Kansas
was president of NCBA.
Matt (48:44):
And Mick
Bill (2) (48:44):
Colvin was certified Angus beef and a very good
friend of mine and ran theprogram when I chaired CAB one
year at American Angusassociation.
And he was there and I was thereand we all got up and took
turns.
Trying to stop a move by aproducer from the West Coast
that said, we just got a lowerthese grades one more time and
(49:07):
just worry about raising redmeat.
Matt (49:10):
Yep.
Bill (2) (49:11):
And we fought that tooth and nail the whole way and
managed to get that thingstopped because it didn't make
any sense for what we believe tobe the future of the industry.
So I think we earned our starsthat day.
Matt (49:24):
You did.
And I was not there.
Of course, I was probably, Ithink, maybe working for the
Angus Association at the time,or maybe even still in college,
but I remember, if it wasn'tthat one, it was in that same
era, that Tom Perrier was amember of the Kansas Livestock
Association delegation, andvoted with you, and broke ranks
(49:49):
with KLA, which Was not supposedto be done at the time, but Tom
Perrier was a little bitindependent minded as, as were
you and felt like that was notthe right thing to do for the
consumer focus that we needed tobe.
And, um, you all weren't alone,but you were barely in the
majority, right?
Bill (2) (50:09):
Yeah, I think that
Matt (50:10):
would be an accurate statement for sure.
Because we were still in themindset of pounds pay and Uh,
let's get the most out of thepounds that we can, and if we
lower the grades and can makemore choice that way, instead of
focusing on improving themarbling and improving the
feeding and management andprogramming and everything that
we've learned since then, but itwas a short term fix.
(50:31):
It was a band aid that didn'tactually address, it was a
symptom, not the actual problemthat we had.
Bill (2) (50:37):
Well, at the end of the day, no matter what business
you're in, And it's not just eggand it's not just beef.
But consumer demand for yourproduct that you're producing is
ultimately your hope forsurvival.
Ultimately.
And Ed, you can just kind of endthe discussion on that as far as
(51:00):
I'm concerned.
It's really about consumerdemand.
It was then, it is now, and itwill be 20 years into the
future.
Matt (51:09):
And that's the cool thing about being at a meeting like
this.
this because it's the one timethat we as cattlemen get to have
all of the different componentstogether in the same room,
arguing about how we meet thatconsumer demand.
And we all have a differentperspective, and we all want to
(51:29):
protect our turf, etcetera,etcetera.
But I think there is extremevalue.
Even though we have to give up alittle of our independent nature
as cowboys and everything else,but I think there's huge value
in sitting in that room with thedirector of beef procurement for
a big retailer, or a foodservice, or a packing plant
(51:52):
that's buying fed cattle andsaying, Hey.
These are the challenges that wehave with what we're bringing in
our doors and getting out ourback doors.
You know, you stick everybody inthat room to duke it out.
And yet, the narrative afterNCBA, we'll make some decision
this week that won't make myneighbors happy because it looks
like it favored this segmentover that segment.
(52:14):
But, if all of us are focused onthat consumer, We bring more
money in, and that's more moneythat we get to share amongst the
different segments.
And so I think that's somethingthat, that I was reminded.
I haven't been to NCBA in sevenor eight years.
And so I had almost forgottenjust how cool it is to see as
many minds sitting aroundtables, talking at the bar,
(52:37):
talking in the halls, hammeringout the, the resolutions in the
committee meetings, but tryingto do that
Bill (2) (52:43):
exact thing.
You know, Matt, you can, you caneven transfer.
Over into the beef checkoff.
Yeah, yeah.
And there is no doubt, there'stoo much science and too much
proof on when the checkoff tookhold and when we started to see
this turnaround from decline inbeef consumption and in the
(53:05):
market and the consumption towhere it finally turned around
and went the other way.
And I mean, it's lockstep withcheckoff work, with promotion of
the product.
With working with MEF, the MeatExport Federation, on exporting
meat, beef, and all meats tothese foreign countries
(53:26):
economies that love our beef, weare the number one producer of
high quality beef in the world,and there's nobody close.
And so, everybody who's in thecattle business, needs to hear
that, and needs to understandthat.
And the fact is that, That hasworked to all of our benefit.
Matt (53:50):
Well, I jokingly said that it was me graduating from K
State in 96 that turned thetide, but there was something
else that happened.
And you, I'm sure, were sittingin the room.
but in 1996, right here in SanAntonio, this group voted to
merge the National Cattlemen'sAssociation, the policy arm.
(54:10):
And the Beef Industry Council,the National Livestock and Meat
Board, or the Check Were youhere?
Because I wasn't.
I was there.
That was a contentiousdiscussion.
No question.
And there are still some folksthat believe that that was not
the right move.
Some may say that it was theright move, but it wasn't
(54:30):
handled from then forthcorrectly.
And we can all argue that backand forth.
I think it got at exactly whatyou said you were trying to do
in the 1980s.
And that is figure out how wefocus on the consumer and pass
those dollars through the chainto reward us for making the
right decisions.
Bill (2) (54:49):
I agree with you on both points.
That wasn't handled the way itneeded to be handled at the
time.
Uh, and it created some illfeelings that festered for quite
a while in our industry.
I agree.
And, uh Really, quite honestly,that checkoff to do the job that
(55:09):
we ought to be doing shouldprobably be increased today, but
there's a lot of people for fearof losing it completely, don't
want to open that up and try todo it all over again.
And I'm probably part of thatgroup.
I'm more interested inmaintaining and hanging on to
the things that have proved towork for us and for prices.
(55:32):
And for consumer buying of beefand just do the best we can with
what we got.
Uh, let's not forget the moneyfrom the checkoff that went into
the muscle profiling work thatadded how much money to the
chuck, which was a low price cutof meat.
And most of those muscles in thechuck were four or five muscles
(55:53):
going four or five differentways in that shoulder area of
this carcass.
And the fact is that it was lowvalued beef.
It's ground.
And, and then we find a muscleup in that shoulder area, you
know, in the chuck, thathappened to be the most tender
muscle in the entire carcass ofthis animal.
(56:14):
And that went on to create theflat iron steak, the petite
tender, the, uh, What's a coupleof the other ones, Matt?
Matt (56:23):
The flat iron was the first one that I came to mind.
I think there's a chuck eye orsomething.
There is.
There's several in there.
But, uh, yeah.
I mean, that muscle profilingwas the first work that I had
heard of separating out thosemuscles.
And that was, that was simplybecause of beef checkoff
dollars.
Yep.
And what has happened since thenis because the Packer processors
(56:44):
saw that research and figuredout that they could get five,
six, seven times more out ofthat.
Then they started doing the samething and it encouraged, and
that's, that's the cool thingabout when producers spend a
little and hopefully it getsleveraged by the rest of the
industry.
And that's where that checkoff,I think, does things that we
don't even know.
It's not all about advertisingand, uh, on the Super Bowl or
(57:07):
whatever it is everybody wantsto see that beef checkoff do
want to share with your
Bill (2) (57:11):
audience one more thing.
Yeah.
I remember sitting in a meetingwith Nebraska Cattlemen.
Um, we had a meeting in, in, andI think it was Kearney,
Nebraska, and we hadrepresentatives of a couple of
major packers in the state atthat meeting, and one, one old
cattleman, who I knew as a goodfriend, just west of North
(57:33):
Platte, stood up and asked thehead honchos of one of those
packing companies, why don't youguys just pay us more for these
real good, straight Anguscattle?
That, that, that, uh, Alwaysgrade well and everything and
the guy who was fielding thequestion said because we don't
have to and only I might be theonly one that appreciated that,
(57:56):
you know, just from running myown business all these years and
and how you how you want toattack things and how you want
to approach your business, buthe was very honest and very
forward about it.
And I appreciated that that dayvery much.
Matt (58:11):
And we as an industry figured out how to build.
I mean, we're We're sitting inthe U.
S.
premium beef booth right now.
And it would have been, not theonly, but one of the ones that
lasted that said, You know what?
We believe there is a valuedifference.
And a better
Bill (2) (58:27):
way.
Matt (58:27):
And a better way of buying and selling these cattle.
And we're going to incentivizepeople to do the right thing.
And it worked, and it's takenroot, and everybody else has
benefited from it.
So
Bill (2) (58:37):
there was, there was another, there was an old cattle
buyer in that crowd that daywith that same packer.
The guy who was the head upfront.
And he said, when are you goingto start buying these cattle on
a, on a grade merit basis?
And I'll never forget this oneword, never.
And they believed it.
He believed it.
Yeah.
He believed it.
(58:57):
Guess what they're doing today?
80
Matt (58:59):
some percent of them are getting bought on a great deal.
Bill (2) (59:02):
And that's instrument grading.
And that's another thing.
After muscle profiling, ourproduct enhancement committee
worked on that with.
with Ag Research Service, USDA,and had instrument grading in
these plants today.
And my goal and hope is thatwe'll still see a time when we
figure out a way to capturetenderness on these cattle and
(59:25):
incorporate that into our entiregrading system.
Yeah.
Now that, that some of our ownpeople don't care for that that
much at this point in time, andI know it, but I still believe
that it would be worthwhile.
Matt (59:37):
Well, Bill Rieschel at last.
One hour of recording time,which is usually the absolute
upper limit of one of thesepodcasts.
I, you look to me like you'rejust getting warmed up.
I, I mean, I mean,
Matt (2) (59:50):
Barb is over here giving us the cut.
You all are finished signs.
So, I guess, I guess, that's,uh, that's, that's our signal
that we've got to end
Matt (01:00:02):
it.
But, I know that we'll keepthese conversations going, but,
uh, no, I appreciate it a bunch.
Bill (2) (01:00:07):
I appreciate this opportunity and thanks so much
for sitting down here andconsidering this.
Oh, you bet.
I've enjoyed every minute of it.
It, it makes me feel a littlebit younger, if nothing else.
Matt (01:00:20):
Well, guess what?
Uh, you don't have to worryabout that, because anybody
listening here is as quickwitted and as sharp as you've
been, they can tell.
So keep up the good work.
Thanks, man.
And happy late birthday.
You bet you and we justestablished that you're a good
20 days older than tom perrier.
So You all share the same birthyear, birth month.
(01:00:43):
Whatever
Bill (2) (01:00:43):
you do, don't tell Tom that I'm older and wiser.
Matt (01:00:46):
Well, you just did.
Thanks Bill.
Bill (2) (01:00:51):
Take care.
Matt (01:00:52):
Thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to
you by Dalebanks angus.
If you like this show, even ifyou didn't share it with someone
you think would enjoy it, giveus a five star review and a
comment so we can keep crankingthe content out.
As we said at the start of theshow, our spring private treaty
bulls are now available.
If you'd like information on theBulls email, Matt
(01:01:12):
perrier@dalebanks.com or text 62 0 5 8 3 43 0 5 with your email
address and we'll get you thelist.
God bless you all.
We look forward to visitingagain soon.
Thanks for joining us forepisode 71 of Practically
Ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier, and we arehere.
Thanks to Dalebanks Angus, yourhome for practical profitable
genetics since 1904.
We're opening our spring privatetreaty bull offering this week,
so stick around at the end ofthe show to hear details about
the bulls.
You know, some of these podcaststake just a bit of planning and
(00:30):
preparation to get the guestsscheduled or talked into even
sitting down and recording withme.
Some others require me to do alittle bit of research and
preparation to figure out whattopics we wanna talk about.
This week's podcast tookneither.
It was definitely a spur of themoment conversation that took
(00:51):
place in the trade show at theCattle Industry Convention last
month.
And honestly, those aresometimes the best kind of
conversations that I have.
I've known Bill Rishel and hiswife, Barb, since I was a
teenager.
Bill served on the AmericanAngus Association Board of
Directors with my dad, and wevisited their ranch near North
(01:12):
Platte, Nebraska on our summervacation in the early nineties,
and I've always had a soft spotfor smart, passionate
storytellers in the beefbusiness.
So I've always enjoyed myconversations with Bill.
This episode is probably reallygonna play to some of you Angus
history buffs and cattlebreeders.
As we talk about a couple bullsand a couple breeders at some of
(01:35):
you may recognize.
And since we were at the CattleIndustry Convention, we also had
a really good discussion aboutBill's lifelong focus on the
consumer and his work with theBeef Checkoff Program and, and
even some of today's challengesand opportunities for cattlemen.
At 80 years.
Young Bill is still as sharp asever.
(01:57):
I edited these spots out, but atleast twice during our podcast
conversation, folks came up and.
Just started talking to Bill.
We had headphones on and amicrophone in front of us, but
it didn't stop him.
They wanted to catch up withtheir old buddy, Mr.
Rishel, and after carrying on aconversation for a minute or two
with these people, he turnedback to the microphone and pick
(02:20):
up exactly where he was inconversation 90 seconds before.
I don't know very many folks whoare half Bill's age and can
still do that.
After we finished up talking,Bill shared with me that he will
be honored as the 2025 inducteeinto the Saddle and Sirloin
Portrait Gallery at Louisvillethis fall, which is for most of
(02:42):
you listening, know that it'sone of the highest honors in the
livestock industry.
Bill's passion for and serviceto the beef industry is
impressive, but honestly, it'shis love of the people with whom
he has worked.
That's likely his most endearingquality.
This coupled with his quest forknowledge Make Bill one of those
(03:02):
guys from whom I can alwayslearn something.
So let's do just that as wevisit with Bill Rishel.
Matt (03:11):
If we get any place that you don't want to talk about,
you just say, that's classified,and we'll, cause I know how
proprietary, I've got so muchclassified information, I
wouldn't know where to start,the only difference with your
classified information and thatof the rest of the world is,
you've shared it for decades,begging people to actually use
(03:34):
it, right?
Bill (03:36):
How
Matt (03:36):
well you know, I think that's been the cool thing is,
and I need to introduce this isa little bit different than I've
done before, but I'm recordingwith Bill Rishel in the middle
of the U.
S.
Premium beef booth at the N.
C.
B.
A.
Trade show in 2025.
And I just ran past here.
(03:58):
And as we were shooting thebreeze and catching up on old
times between Angus stuff andfamily stuff.
Somebody came by and said, youknow, this would make a great
podcast.
And so guess what?
We pulled out the recorder andhere we are.
So as I was growing up, you wereon the American Angus board with
my dad.
That was the first place I metyou and Barb.
(04:19):
And actually I take that back.
I think we visited your place inNorth Platts a year or two
before, but somewhere in thatmid eighties time period.
Now, what I always appreciatedabout you was.
As hard as you worked atlearning new information, it
wasn't ever classified.
You wanted people to learn whatyou had learned, and then, in
(04:40):
reciprocal form, learn from themagain later on down the road,
which is something that I don'tknow that we see all the time in
industries.
Why did you do that?
BIF, American Angus Association,Nebraska Cattlemen, NCBA, NCA,
all the different things thatyou did.
Why?
Bill (2) (04:57):
Matt, that's a great question, and I appreciate the
opportunity to visit with youand your effort here.
And I think I can answer thatvery honestly by saying that
there were so many people thathelped me as a young person
growing up in this business,whether it was 4 H, judging
teams, or whatever the case mayhave been, that helped me in
(05:20):
many great ways.
Often not appreciating it untilmuch later in life and realized
that whatever I was able toaccomplish and do and amount to
anything, really, I owed a lotto those people and I felt
compelled to be able to sharewith other young people coming
along.
And I got a lot of thoseexperiences working with, uh,
(05:44):
judging teams from otheruniversities and colleges that
would come through Rishel Angusover the many, many years stop
in and want to know if we couldput some classes of livestock
together to help them with theirjudging team efforts.
And we did that and we did itwith an open mind and very
(06:05):
willing to kind of help thesekids try to become more
proficient at judging beefcattle in particular.
But I, I had a greatappreciation for that and what
it meant to me in my life.
And as a result.
Uh, I think that carried overand allowed me to do a lot of
that for other young people,especially college students, 4 H
(06:26):
people.
It, it didn't matter.
It's just the idea that thesepeople could go on and possibly
become a very, very importantpart of our industry.
And at the end of the day, I'vemaintained that thought process
all through my involvement withNCBA and other organizations.
that are very responsible forhelping to keep our industry
(06:49):
viable.
So that's about the best way Icould answer that for you, Matt.
Matt (06:54):
What was the, what was the hardest lesson that you learned?
Whether it be as a kid, as ayoung person in the beef
business, later in life, whatwas the hardest lesson you
learned, and maybe the best one?
Bill (2) (07:07):
I think, and my wife's sitting here with me right now,
and she may, she may kind of geta funny look when I say, I think
in many ways, the hardest lessonI've learned was to be a little
more patient than what I was ata, at a young age.
I, I don't know if I'veaccomplished that yet, but I
think
Matt (2) (07:24):
it is.
I was just about to ask you, howold were you?
Because I haven't learned ityet.
And Amy could attest, just likeBarb.
Bill (2) (07:33):
Well, I have, I just, I just have to tell you that I
think anyone who really has apassion for this industry, I
think it's difficult to havepatience because you want it to
happen right now.
I don't want to wait 283 days toget this calf.
No, no, no, I don't.
I, yeah, I, waiting for a newcalf crop, waiting for the
(07:54):
calves to buy a new herd bull.
It doesn't matter.
It's, it's, it's a difficultindustry.
It takes time.
And I think I have finallyrealized that, uh, that time
invested has been extremelyworthwhile.
So I believe that was difficult.
And I think I'm getting to apoint more.
While I can tell you one placewhere it really shows up is I've
(08:20):
never been opposed to using aherd sire before he was proven,
but I had some prerequisites andthat was, I had to know a lot
about his mother.
I had to know a lot about.
relatives and other cattle inhis pedigree and have some way
(08:43):
to determine what I thought thebreeding potential of that bull
was.
And, and I, so I have becomemore patient and maybe wait
until a bull's more proven.
One of my great mentors over theyears was a guy by the name of
Clarence Van Dyke, Van DykeAngus Ranch at Manhattan,
Montana.
And I tried to get Clarence topartner with me on a bull one
(09:07):
time a number of years ago,1981.
And he said, Oh, Bill, he said,you know, our program, he said,
we only use proven sires.
And I kind of chuckled.
I said, I know Clarence.
And I said, I'm not going topush you anymore to do this.
But I said, I know how much youlove great females.
(09:27):
And I'm pretty convinced thatthis bull will be a great female
sire.
And just to share with youraudience that may know this
name, the bull happened to beAAR New Trend..
Matt (2) (09:40):
So you would if you would be old enough and have
enough
Matt (09:43):
hairs like I have to know.
Bill (2) (09:45):
So that's that's one of my my very, very good
memories because I lovedClarence Van Dyke and his
ability as a cow man.
He had a he was in the Holsteincow business before he got in
the registered Angus business.
And he knew a lot about maternalvalue and milk and all of that.
I don't think that a lot of us,including me, until we got more
(10:08):
involved in this carcass effortand marbling, I don't, I don't
think a lot of people realized,like, I believe, this is my
belief, I can't back it up allthat much, but I think the
marbling trait in our Anguscattle today is very, very much
a maternal trait.
And I think that muscle in thesecattle is a masculine trait.
(10:30):
And actually, ribeye andmarbling have been extremely
antagonistic over the years whenyou're trying to improve these
cattle and, and what's in themwhen it comes to carcass merit.
So, that's just a sidebar afteryou live long enough and do
enough things in this industry,you eventually just start to
(10:51):
make certain comparisons inrelative Get relative ideas
about how these traits operate,what they do, and how they work.
Matt (10:58):
We, uh, we love as cattle breeders and geneticists to turn
causation into correlation andfigure out is this real or just
perceived?
And quite often we're guilty ofmaybe making something a
correlation that geneticistswould argue.
But, uh, yeah, I think we'veseen the same thing.
Bill (2) (11:18):
I know, Matt, that I just feel certain.
That you and I both believe thatwhat we have to do first and
foremost is continue to breedand produce cattle with very,
very strong maternal value tothem.
(11:38):
Because a cow herd doesn't havematernal value, and by that I'm
talking about fertility,reproduction.
And I'm talking about thatcalving interval that most
people don't talk much about atall.
But that calving interval is allabout economics and value and
money, whether you're purebredor commercial.
(12:00):
I've always really believed inthe fact that if I can breed a
set of cows that have thistremendous value of reproduction
and production and fertility andthose things that really matter
in calf crop percentage.
Live calves, that I could tearup the papers on my registered
(12:21):
cows if I had to if times gotreally, really tough and run
them as a commercial cow herdand still make money and compete
in the cattle business.
Matt (12:29):
I have argued with dad as we have looked at end of year
financials and assets and how wevalue things and he values our
cows at their commercial value.
Yeah.
And I argue with him that whenthe bank comes to look at that,
those cows are worth more thanthat.
Bill (2) (12:46):
No question.
Matt (12:47):
Yet, I think that that stands the test of time.
If you look at them, not justfrom the banker's standpoint,
but if you look at them withthat conservative approach as
nothing but a commercial cow,when it comes right down to
their market value, the rest isblue sky and BS.
Yeah.
If you look at it that way, Ithink you treat them.
(13:08):
Just like you said, you makesure that they pay their way,
that they are Yeah, I think cowfirst There's no question and
bull generator second
Bill (2) (13:15):
I think it impacts, it impacts the, uh, the way that
you breed and, and produce a setof cows that will keep you in
the cow business and and keepthe operation productive not
only productive but profitableat the same time.
So I, I'm proud to be a part ofan old school with your dad,
(13:37):
Tom, in that respect.
And, uh, I, I believe that withall my heart, uh, that it's real
easy to get derailed, if youwill, in a breeding program.
And the other thing while we'reon it is, you know, if you have
a really productive, I'm goingto say great set of cows.
(14:00):
You can buy the wrong bull andyou can breed some of the wrong
cattle, but your cow herd willcarry that and make them look
valuable for a while until thatdepth in that pedigree runs out
of power.
And then you say, how am I goingto fix this problem?
(14:21):
And so that's what we want tostay away from.
Matt (14:24):
And that's, I think, why, as you've alluded to, why you
can reach out there and mayberoll the dice and use an
unproven, slightly unprovenbull, as long as you don't do it
year after year, generationafter generation, until you find
yourself in a hole that you'vegot to breed yourself back out
of.
Bill (2) (14:41):
And Matt, quite honestly, as a registered
breeder, It's easier for me touse a bull that I raised in that
respect than to go out and buyone and spend a lot of money on
it.
You
Matt (14:53):
know something about the
Bill (2) (14:54):
cow.
Because you know something aboutthe mother and the grandmother.
And believe me, it is very, veryvaluable in that grandmother
just as much as the mother.
Matt (15:04):
So I want to go back.
You said something that I thinkis really interesting and may
fly in the face of some oftoday's discussions.
And that is that marbling isIt's a maternal trait or has not
a genetic correlation necessary,but at least a perceived
correlation.
Because I think a lot of thediscussions today would say
(15:24):
you're either one or the other.
You're either breeding for highmarbling or you're breeding for
maternal genetics and you'resaying they go hand in hand.
How do you see that and how haveyou seen that as you've read
cow?
Bill (2) (15:35):
Quite frankly, I don't have scientific proof of that at
all.
I want to make that clear toyour listeners.
But I will tell you that historyand records and looking at
records and studying them and inthe cow herd that we put
together, Uh, I can see thatmarbling trait appear to exhibit
(16:00):
more strength and more passingfrom generation to generation
through the female than I'vesires that will go ahead and
pass that trait fairly.
Fairly, uh, strongly, but, uh,I, uh, I just really feel like
it's a little stronger in thosematernal lines and cows carry it
(16:22):
and pass it on easier.
I, I'm not sure why that wouldbe, uh, and it's, it is
speculation on my part and Iunderstand that, so I don't want
to mislead anybody.
But that's what I think I'veseen in the records that I've
lived with and worked with.
Matt (16:39):
So I want you to do something for me.
I want you to define maternal.
In your, from your experience,your opinion, because I think
that has a fairly gray areaamongst some discussions.
What's maternal to Bill Rischel?
Bill (2) (16:56):
Maternal to me is, I mentioned it briefly here just a
little bit ago, and that iscalving interval.
Um, It's one of the mostimportant traits to a commercial
producer because of thetightness of a calf crop, the
uniformity of a calf crop whenit comes marketing time to
(17:18):
market your, your calf crop.
That, that calving interval iswhat creates a uniform calf crop
in a good cow herd.
So when we talk
Matt (17:28):
about that, that trait, maternal calving interval,
fertility, reproduction, We'veall been told in every study,
every genetics class, thatfertility and those maternal
traits are a fairly lowlyheritable set of traits.
(17:48):
which means they're affectedgreatly by how we manage the
environment.
Bill (2) (17:53):
Yeah, no question.
Matt (17:54):
So how, as producers, let's say seed stock producers.
As a commercial cow calfproducer, I think you just make
sure and you give themeverything that they need to
make sure they get bred.
But as seed stock producers whoare trying to let Mother Nature
help us make those selectiondecisions.
And find out which ones can getthe job done on grass and on a
(18:15):
little bit of supplement orwhatever the case may be.
When is enough managementenough?
And we don't overshoot therunway and hide some cattle that
won't breed under the normalenvironment.
Or is there?
Do we just make sure on a 2 fatmarket?
I think you
Bill (2) (18:30):
just, you just opened up a whole new subject.
We have plenty of time.
The point that I think needs tobe clarified and made clear,
particularly to a lot ofcommercial operators, and
sometimes I think there'scommercial operators that
understand this better than alot of purebred operators, but
that has to do with yourcontemporary grouping of this
(18:54):
calf crop and what you'reworking with, and to make sure
that you keep everything as evensteven as you can in your
contemporary groups, And theAngus Association will recommend
that you contemporary group thecalves out of your first calf
heifers separate from your maincow herd, right?
(19:14):
And that is because theadjustment factors in there to
get those calves off your firstcalf heifers to the same
supposedly equal librium orequal place of, of the rest of
the, the calf crop out of yourcows.
Uh, if you don't keep thosecontemporary groups in the right
(19:36):
sort, they can mess up all thedata, which means none of your
data is really worthwhileanymore.
And we, we can't forget thatissue.
That, uh, contemporary groupsproperly done are the reason why
the BIF and, and the breedassociations are successful.
(19:57):
With.
Their databases.
Matt (20:01):
And for those who may not be in the seed stock business, a
contemporary group, I guessyou're the guest, I'll let you
define it.
Bill (2) (20:09):
Contemporary group has to do, number one, I would say
sex of calf.
And number two, is birth date.
Yep.
And the age grouping.
Matt (20:22):
And all handled and treated the same way.
All handled and treated the
Bill (2) (20:25):
same way.
And that takes you all the waythrough ultrasounding data.
It takes you through any data onto, uh, performance testing, uh,
for bulls, gain testing.
And takes you beyond that to thepoint to where you're talking
about, uh, these cattle that arejust You know, being measured on
a level playing field is thebest way I can say it.
Matt (20:48):
Basically, we're attempting to take every
environmental advantage ordisadvantage that, that that
calf may have had and strip itdown so we know just what the
genetics were doing in thatcalf.
Matt,
Bill (2) (21:00):
I want to go back to one other thing here when I
talked about calving interval.
A number of years ago, I satdown and started going through
our records on this, on our cowherd.
And I found it extremelyfascinating that how many cows
that were now 3, 4, 5 years oldthat had calving intervals at
(21:24):
358 to 365 days of a calvinginterval.
And for anybody that'sinterested in that, all of
these, all of these cows thatI'm talking about were being
managed the same way and all ofthese cows were doing this when
(21:46):
the vast majority of ourbreeding was by artificial
insemination.
Right.
And as a commercial herd, if youcan do it AI ing on these
programs in a commercial herd,you can get into a situation
where, uh, They don't do any AI.
They turn out bulls becausebulls work 24 hours a day and
(22:08):
they get the job done And if ifyou can do this AI'ing like we
did we're pretty confident thatour commercial bull Customers
could do this turning bulls out.
Mm hmm, and that's the real realDifference that makes a
difference on why that's animportant trait You you run into
a bad batch of semen you runinto some bad management you run
(22:30):
into a Drought conditions runinto just a fertility problem
that never got corrected orbuilt right.
And all of a sudden, you know,the calving interval is going to
suffer greatly.
And commercial man just can'tmake a really good living
selling cattle and uniformitygroups with those kind of issues
(22:52):
going wrong.
Matt (22:54):
I just had this conversation at breakfast this
morning with a couple of folksand Troy Marshall was mentioning
one of the One of the drivers ofvalue to a feed yard is, since
we have provided so much growthpotential and so much, uh,
marbling and quality andeverything else in that carcass,
now what they're asking for isconsistency.
(23:16):
Consistency of outcome groups,and, and those are the things
that you're, I think, talkingabout.
And a lot of that is solved byage of that calf.
Bill (2) (23:25):
Yep.
Matt (23:25):
But also the genetics that are behind him or her and how
they perform at all steps alongthe way, whether it be calves,
yearlings, heifers, cows,whatever the case may be.
Yeah.
So, we talked about New Trend.
Yep.
He spurred on a, a new, a newdesign of cattle.
(23:47):
Tell me about what that bull didand maybe the selection and the,
the, the.
Many A.
I.
Sires that he either sired orwas grand sire of or cows that
he left and where your path wentafter you bought that New Trend
bull in the eighties.
Bill (2) (24:03):
Well, the background before that might be really
interesting to some of yourlisteners.
I managed and helped tomanage...
You know, we were scratching fora living and doing other things
besides building a cow herd atone time.
Managed a few Angus sales aroundthe country and one of those was
the Montana Angus Associationevery year in the fall had a Had
(24:27):
a sale at Billings called theNorthern International Livestock
Exposition sale and I got hiredby the Montana Angus Association
to go select those cattle andFor years they had this sale and
I don't think anybody wasselecting them all that much
But, uh, I decided I was goingto try and do it upright.
(24:48):
It had been averaging, theseopen heifers and bread heifers,
were averaging about$400, 450when I took that thing over.
And so, my goal was to go outand get on 30 ranches, at least,
minimum, and, and, uh, withthat, capture, a total of 50 to
60 heifer calves and bredheifers for that sale.
(25:13):
And over quite a few years inthe late seventies and early
eighties, uh, we built thatthing up to where we actually
were averaging somewhere betweenthree and 4, 000 on those
females.
And I decided that it was abouttime.
Maybe we find a good bull calfout of Montana.
(25:34):
Montana cattle were very popularand find a real good bull calf.
And I spotted one at ArntzenAngus Ranch at Christina,
Montana.
And when I went in, you know, inthose days, we didn't have all
these EPDs and all this data andeverything.
Not coming from Angus.
(25:54):
But most everybody, Montana wasone of the first states in the
nation after Virginia andNebraska and some other ones.
I don't know when Kansas startedthere.
It was later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But these states
Matt (26:09):
Beef Cattle Improvement.
Bill (2) (26:11):
Beef Cattle Improvement Associations was the
source and the record keepingentity of their herds.
But when I would walk into aperson's home after I wrote
these numbers down on thesecattle that I eyeballed, you
know, heifers or bred heifers,The amount of data I had was on
(26:35):
a three by five card.
It looked like a housewife wouldkeep her recipes in a box, you
know?
And and so,, that's what we weredealing with.
And when I talked to the Arntzenboys and told him I found a bull
calf out there that That I'dlike to put in the Nile and see
if we could sell a good bullcalf down there.
(26:55):
And he was different.
And I realized when I was doingthis that there might be some
blowback, because this was 1981.
And we were on that shift towardbigger, much bigger, very large
cattle.
But these were the early days ofit.
And this bull was anything but agiant.
(27:16):
But he had, he had a lot ofvolume.
He was very sound, he was agreat footed beast, and there
were things in his pedigree, andhad they gone wrong, and not to
my liking, Um, he probablywouldn't have amounted to much.
But if they went right, as theydid, then the rest of it was
(27:39):
going to be history.
And I was convinced, because ofmy knowledge of the sire of New
Trend, who was a Van Dyke bredbull, VDAR Shoshone 548.
The sire of his dam was a bullcalled Candler Forever 376, who
by the way was a sire daughtermating.
Bill (27:58):
Oh, that's right.
Which some
Bill (2) (27:59):
people will tell you not to do.
If it works, it's line breeding.
If it works, it's line breeding.
If it doesn't work, it'sinbreeding.
Exactly.
So, we had a lot of fun withthat over the years.
But, I also told him that day, Isaid, uh, You know, if we're
going to do this, you guys needto come up with a new name for
this bull.
(28:20):
And, and they said, we don'tknow anything about that, you
name him.
I said, I've been thinking aboutthis guys.
I said, I didn't have a lot oftime since we were out there in
the pasture coming into thekitchen table.
But I said, I would name himbecause of this background.
Very, very maternal.
The 376th is some of thesweetest great udder females in
(28:42):
the breed at that time.
The Shoshone side, on the otherhand, was really high milk
level.
And sometimes a little too muchwhite.
And the other issue would bethat, uh, Sometimes you get too
much milk and you haven't paidenough attention to udders.
You can really get into udderproblems.
And that's a labor problem thatnobody in this business should
(29:04):
want.
Or, or, or.
Create.
Right,
Bill (29:07):
right.
Bill (2) (29:07):
So those were all no-nos for me.
And the positive side was thatwhen he was a calf nursing his
mother, when I first saw him outthere in their pasture, the
pasture that he was running inand his mother were nearly all
VDAR Shoshone 548 daughters.
Oh, okay.
There wasn't a bad uttered cowin that whole pasture.
(29:28):
They were beautiful uttered.
They were full of milk and everytime those big bull calves that
were in that group of cows outthere come out from under the
cow, they were white from aboutmidway between their eyeballs,
clear down around their mouth,you know, their nose, the whole
deal.
They were just covered withmilk.
And, and I, I told him, I said,you know, I think this bull can
(29:49):
be a, a really valuable bull tobuild cow herds and to keep
maternal values straight inthese cattle, meaning looking at
it primarily from fertility.
Utters, soundness, longevity.
Longevity is a really big thingwe haven't talked about yet here
today, Matt.
But it's all part of this.
(30:09):
And longevity leads to the kindof females that can get you past
the time when they're amortizedin your breeding program and
start to really be profitablecows.
Make some money.
Comes time to make money.
So I said, why don't you just Isaid, well, use your Initials A.
A.
R.
Arntzen Angus Ranch and whydon't we just call him A.
(30:31):
A.
R.
New Trend and they looked at melike I'd lost my mind.
I think
Matt (30:37):
that's the only people that's ever looked at you that
way, right?
Bill (2) (30:41):
I think there's been other cases for sure.
But the whole point being isthat in the long run, the other
thing they asked me And this,this is really, I think this is
a special part of the wholedeal.
They finally looked at me andthey said, what do you think he
can bring there in that sale atthe Nile?
And I never tried to misleadanybody on anything or blow
(31:04):
smoke anywhere.
But I said, guys, I said, I, I'mnot going to go there because I
said, I can't promise anything.
I said, what would make you guyshappy?
And they said, well, it's 1981.
Let's keep all this inperspective.
And then
Matt (31:19):
goals.
For that perspective, what doyou, what would Bulls and Angus
Breed have been averagingnationwide in 81?
Bill (2) (31:27):
Probably nationwide across Oh Maybe more
Matt (31:33):
2, 000.
Boy, you may be right.
We've got the data.
I'll look it up.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, go ahead.
That would be
Bill (2) (31:38):
interesting.
Yeah, but The most fascinatingpart of the deal was they said
well in our sale He's probablywouldn't do more than about
twenty five hundred dollars AndI said, guys, I'm very, very
interested in this bull.
I said, I really believe in whatI just told you, and I'm willing
to put my money where my mouthis.
(32:00):
And I said, I would give you,I'd write you a check today for
2, 500 and put him on a truckfor North Platte, Nebraska.
But I said, I'm not here to dothat.
I am here to sell these cattlefor Montana breeders.
to their highest value possible,and I said, if I didn't follow
(32:21):
that belief in any way, I said,then I'm the wrong guy to be
sitting here with you.
And so the rest, he goes to theNile.
There was three guys bid on himthat day.
I was managing the sale and Iwas bidding on him.
Pat Goggins was the auctioneerand he was bidding on him.
(32:42):
And then Bob Sitz goes tobidding on him, and he took him
up to about somewhere around 7,500 8, 000.
He wasn't really, you know, hewasn't willing to gamble on him
too high, because I watched himbuy bulls for 20, 000 in a day.
Even then.
And, uh, finally the bull got tobuy 9, 500.
(33:03):
And Pat slammed the gavel downand says, sold Vermillion Ranch.
Matt (33:07):
Oh,
Bill (2) (33:09):
and I, I looked at Pat and I said, no, no, Pat.
I said, that's my bid.
And he looked at me like, whatin the world is wrong with you,
young man?
And so this is such a greatstory.
And, uh, so he said, okay.
He fired her back up and hesays, 10, 000.
(33:29):
I went, yes.
He goes, bam, sold.
That's a true story.
And, and of course, all things,I mean, I heard all kinds of
stories about how Bill Ruschelgot stuck with that bull.
Oh, that's great.
And, and of course, you know,had, had to buy him, but I
couldn't, it couldn't have beenmore untruth to that ever.
(33:52):
I wanted the bull and I thoughtI knew what was there.
And history's proved that to beabsolutely correct.
There's a lot of people who wishthey would have gone 10 5.
And should have gone 10 5.
Really, quite honestly, it wouldhave improved 90 some percent of
the cow herds in the country atthat point in time.
Matt (34:10):
Yeah, he did a lot.
And he did so many things sowell.
And things that, you know,you're talking about foot
soundness and athleticism andlongevity.
Things that I'm not sure atleast at Dale Banks Angus in
1981 or two that we were evenconsidering because we didn't
feel like we had an issue withit, but he added growth and
(34:32):
added marbling and things thatwe weren't even marbling.
We weren't even measuring it andmilk and milk.
And you'd be surprised how manyhis
Bill (2) (34:39):
daughters were those average to short generation
interval.
Yep.
Calving intervals and stayedforever.
Stayed stability, longevity.
He was truly one of the greatsires of the era and in fact Van
Dyke's went back and finallyused him even though he didn't
partner on him to start with andthey produced guess who?
(35:02):
Nutrient 315.
Yep, who sold for?
73, 000 in their bull sale thatspring and I'd say he went to
Sydenstrickers, by the way inMexico, Missouri So, it was,
there's a lot of great memoriesfrom all of that.
Uh, special things that youstore away and, and it's such a
(35:23):
treat to even bring them up andvisit with somebody about it,
you know, because it's prettyspecial.
Matt (35:28):
Well, and again, the traits that you were looking at
then, I don't know if there'sstill AAR New Trend Semen
around, but I guarantee there'dbe some folks saying, that's
exactly what we need right heretoday.
And I mean, he was doing it,what now, 40 some years ago.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah.
Bill (2) (35:49):
So, uh, oh, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say,you know, you said the traits
we're after today, and quitehonestly, to be, to develop and
produce a great herd of cows.
They're the traits that arefundamental to anybody's
building a cow herd.
They're timeless.
Timeless.
That's a great
Matt (36:09):
word.
Profitability, regardless ofwhat it is that we're selling on
the, on the revenue side ofthings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we, we walked a little downmemory lane.
Um, what do the letters C, A,and B bring up in your memory?
And what can you tell us aboutthe early days of the Certified
(36:31):
Angus Beef Program that you wereso ingrained in and helped drive
and keep going forth?
Bill (2) (36:40):
I, being fairly active, and this wasn't the
early days, CAB was actuallystarted in 1978.
for some reason, I've been abeliever in that most of my
life, and that is, I grew up,Matt, and you'll remember some
of this, but most of ourknowledge or drivers or people
(37:03):
who influenced our industrywe're professors at major land
grant institutions, and really,many of them extremely valuable
and good people.
But As the industry would lookto them for the pecking order or
the pyramid of quality from thetop of that pyramid to the base,
(37:25):
and it started at the top with apurebred Angus breeder.
And I came to a point in time inmy life where I thought, this
isn't right.
Yeah, I believe in the purebredindustry and what have you, but
I don't care what the breed is.
Nobody was talking about aconsumer anywhere, and I
couldn't make sense out of that.
(37:47):
I just really struggled withthat, and when people made fun
of New Trend as a bull in ourplace and on, some of the folks,
you know, because he wasn't thebiggest bull in the breed,
started calling him new toadinstead of And for those who
don't know, that's a definition.
(38:10):
Of an animal's not real big.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he'd weigh 22 or 23 hundredcoming out of a set of cows when
he was two and a three year old.
Yep.
Long, long, long.
I mean long hip, long bodied.
Um, he had a little old bentdown ear because he got in a
fight with a Horned HerefordBull one day that jumped in from
across the fence.
(38:30):
And it gave him a cauliflowerear but he whipped the bull hard
enough he went back home.
And then people.
Well, and a few years later wehad some five year old daughters
of him in production and thestate tour was coming to
Nebraska and we were on it.
And I put all new trenddaughters in the lot right out
(38:52):
in front of the auction barnthere on the place.
And they all had these big bullcalves on them, you know, that
were just massive.
I mean, the kind that make yourmouth water.
And about two or three producerson that trip came up to me
personally and said, Aren't youafraid you're going to get your
cows too big?
Ha ha ha! You mean the ones outof toad?
(39:14):
Yeah, out of the old toad bull,you know.
So, had a lot of fun with thatover the years.
It, it was, uh It didn't definehim at all correctly, you know,
I mean Really economic traitsthat were really valuable and
still are and always will beWe're still there and it didn't
(39:35):
have a whole lot to do with howbig a frame bully was He caused
he cast a big shadow.
I can tell you that you know for
Matt (39:42):
sure Literally and figures.
Yes.
Yes So one other thing youmentioned was the fact that
Clarence Van Dyke moved from thedairy business to the registered
Angus business.
and there were a lot of folkswho did that in those days.
No question.
What would those guys if theyfast forwarded and we're still
(40:03):
with us today and in 2025 sawthe whole beef on dairy
phenomenon?
How ironic to them.
But How do you look at that andgoing forth?
Do we see that grow?
Is it going to stay just asstagnant as it, because we've
got an X number of dairy cows?
Or where do you see that goingin the future?
Bill (2) (40:24):
You're talking about beef dairy cross?
Correct.
Yes.
I, I've got some perspective andsome ideas on it.
Um, you know my activity andinvolvement with NCBA over the
years.
At one time, we had that groupat NCBA called Research and
Knowledge Group, and under that,there was one committee called
Product Enhancement.
(40:46):
And that's where we did all themuscle profiling work for the
industry, as well as looking at,uh, these values of dressed
cattle and, and what have you.
It was, uh, it's beenfascinating because, and, and I
think, 2001 or 2004, maybe itwas, we had one of the beef
(41:09):
quality audits that I happenedto be on.
And, uh, when the data came inon that, it was, they gathered
more information than any othertime of a beef quality audit.
And by more information, I mean,you know, all the way from
through the feedlot performance,onto the, the packing industry,
(41:31):
the packing house.
And with that, they gatheredinformation on heifer harvests,
steer harvests.
They gathered information on theHolstein steer population in the
industry, which had never beendone before, but it ended up
being one of the most in depthstudies of our cattle in the
(41:54):
industry and where we were withwhat's going on.
And so I got invited to go todinner with, uh, Bo Reagan and
Dr.
Gary Smith, who was at ColoradoState.
And I really all meet scientistguys that were fabulous, very,
very helpful to the industry.
And they sat there worried thatnight about presenting this
(42:16):
information because when theygot the data back, the Holstein
population in that harvest dataproved to be Uh, let me get this
right.
I want to say it exactly right.
The whole steam population inthat entire database that they
gathered from large numbers ofthem graded about 8.
(42:41):
5 percent prime, if I'mremembering the numbers
correctly, when the hugepopulation with them included on
a national basis of our, ourgeneral beef harvest, steer
harvest, and heifer harvest, theaverage for prime was two to two
and a half percent.
So with that background, I'vealways known that these Holstein
(43:03):
cattle are another reason why Imight be thinking about maternal
and in relation to marblingbecause this influenced my
thinking and back me up thatthey were, they were produced
for milk.
Milk is a maternal trait andthey were selected for that
almost totally.
So why wouldn't there be arelationship with maybe this
(43:25):
marbling thing, when you seethat kind of data, you know,
coming back and representing it.
Now, we've talked about some ofthe good things in it.
Uh, the good news for the dairyindustry is, they're not getting
these big, big, overgrown, roughframed, mixed amount of muscle
(43:46):
in them.
That's the reason they'vecrossed, uh, A lot of them with
other breeds of beef bulls,heavier muscled cattle, trying
to get more muscle on them.
The thing they haven't fixedyet.
And the thing that I think willbe a real problem for the retail
sector of our industry is theuniformity of the ribeye.
These ribeyes in these dairysteers, if you take straight
(44:08):
Holsteins, they're not biground, big ribeyes that smile at
you.
They're, they're pretty narrow.
They, they look a little bitmore like cattle that just.
They'll slab sided.
Don't have a lot of muscle inthem per say.
And so, until they get thatfixed, and get more uniformity
for that retail case, I thinkthat's their biggest issue to
(44:31):
overcome.
Matt (44:32):
And of course, as they select those sires, those beef
sires to use on those dairycows, I know that marbling is
one thing, and, and You know,rib eye area or red meat yield
or muscle is another and, and,and they're figuring out some
lines that help them get closerto a beef.
No question.
And the consistency of marblingis there because they're so
(44:56):
closely related.
Those, that cow herd has beenselected for years and years and
years.
They've used AI.
There's, you know, maybe almostinbred is to go back to our
earlier discussion.
And so there is a ton ofconsistency there and they're
all raised.
I mean, you talk aboutcontemporary groups, dairy to
(45:16):
dairy to dairy, they may have alittle different feedstuffs, but
their management is very, verysimilar compared to us cowboys
that all are going to do itdifferently.
So I think that's my, Ishouldn't say fear, but that's
a, that's something that I guessI'm concerned about the
consistency of our beef cattleas they have to quote unquote
(45:39):
compete against.
It's a more consistent beef ondairy.
And I never thought that I wouldeven say that that was
competition because it's allbeef.
It's all beef.
But, uh, there, there are somereasons there that we have to
make sure that we produce alevel of consistency that, that
rivals that.
Bill (2) (45:58):
You know, uh, we're, we're talking about this and I
started earlier talking aboutthat pyramid with the purebred
breeder at the top, right?
And it came to me in the late80s after my struggles with New
Trend and how a lot of thatplayed out.
It just came to my mind when Itold her what happened on that
(46:18):
tour that day about those guysworried about us getting our
cows too big.
I said, there's so much aboutthis industry that just when I
think about it, I said, it'sjust not common sense and it's
kind of borderline, you know,just.
Not a smart way to look atthings.
(46:38):
Insanity?
Yeah, borderline, borderline.
And so, uh, I said, we've got tofigure out something different
here, and a different way to goabout this business, or I need
to find something else to do.
And she said, well, what wouldyou do?
And I said, I don't knowanything else.
I said, I guess we just have to,and then we had a guy working
(46:59):
for us, and I said, if we getout of this business at this
point, She said, what are wegoing to do for Kenny?
And I said, well, I don't know,but he's not going to go
anywhere and make what we'repaying him.
Yeah.
I just wasn't going to happen.
And so, um, I, I said, we've gotto get a better handle on
(47:19):
identifying those economicvalues and merits that have to
do with consumer acceptance andbeef demand.
And of course to say that in the1980s was still about 10 years
ahead when beef demand finallyturned and went up.
Right.
That was about 98, 99.
That's correct.
Yeah.
The
Matt (47:37):
bottom was 96.
Yep, that's right.
I like to say that's when Igraduated from Kansas State
University and entered the beefindustry.
You're responsible for Eversince then, Bill, if you look at
that chart, I mean, we've beenon a race to the top.
Matt (2) (47:52):
Because it couldn't have gone much worse
Matt (47:53):
than we were in the beef industry selling 50 to 60 cent
cattle.
That's so true.
Yeah.
Matt (2) (48:00):
That's
Matt (48:00):
so true.
Matt (2) (48:01):
But
Matt (48:02):
I think that as as As visionary as we see that today,
you were, you were certifiablynuts back then, right?
Talking about marbling.
Why in the world would we focuson a trait that nobody pays us
for?
How many times did you hearthat?
A lot.
Yeah.
A lot.
(48:22):
All by the pound.
Every feed yard you went tountil 1996, 7, 8.
Well, I was all going to, wasall going to be sold for the
same price, Matt.
I remember
Bill (2) (48:33):
going to San Diego, California for an NCBA
convention.
When one of your fellowbreeders, Jan Lyons in Kansas
was president of NCBA.
Matt (48:44):
And Mick
Bill (2) (48:44):
Colvin was certified Angus beef and a very good
friend of mine and ran theprogram when I chaired CAB one
year at American Angusassociation.
And he was there and I was thereand we all got up and took
turns.
Trying to stop a move by aproducer from the West Coast
that said, we just got a lowerthese grades one more time and
(49:07):
just worry about raising redmeat.
Matt (49:10):
Yep.
Bill (2) (49:11):
And we fought that tooth and nail the whole way and
managed to get that thingstopped because it didn't make
any sense for what we believe tobe the future of the industry.
So I think we earned our starsthat day.
Matt (49:24):
You did.
And I was not there.
Of course, I was probably, Ithink, maybe working for the
Angus Association at the time,or maybe even still in college,
but I remember, if it wasn'tthat one, it was in that same
era, that Tom Perrier was amember of the Kansas Livestock
Association delegation, andvoted with you, and broke ranks
(49:49):
with KLA, which Was not supposedto be done at the time, but Tom
Perrier was a little bitindependent minded as, as were
you and felt like that was notthe right thing to do for the
consumer focus that we needed tobe.
And, um, you all weren't alone,but you were barely in the
majority, right?
Bill (2) (50:09):
Yeah, I think that
Matt (50:10):
would be an accurate statement for sure.
Because we were still in themindset of pounds pay and Uh,
let's get the most out of thepounds that we can, and if we
lower the grades and can makemore choice that way, instead of
focusing on improving themarbling and improving the
feeding and management andprogramming and everything that
we've learned since then, but itwas a short term fix.
(50:31):
It was a band aid that didn'tactually address, it was a
symptom, not the actual problemthat we had.
Bill (2) (50:37):
Well, at the end of the day, no matter what business
you're in, And it's not just eggand it's not just beef.
But consumer demand for yourproduct that you're producing is
ultimately your hope forsurvival.
Ultimately.
And Ed, you can just kind of endthe discussion on that as far as
(51:00):
I'm concerned.
It's really about consumerdemand.
It was then, it is now, and itwill be 20 years into the
future.
Matt (51:09):
And that's the cool thing about being at a meeting like
this.
this because it's the one timethat we as cattlemen get to have
all of the different componentstogether in the same room,
arguing about how we meet thatconsumer demand.
And we all have a differentperspective, and we all want to
(51:29):
protect our turf, etcetera,etcetera.
But I think there is extremevalue.
Even though we have to give up alittle of our independent nature
as cowboys and everything else,but I think there's huge value
in sitting in that room with thedirector of beef procurement for
a big retailer, or a foodservice, or a packing plant
(51:52):
that's buying fed cattle andsaying, Hey.
These are the challenges that wehave with what we're bringing in
our doors and getting out ourback doors.
You know, you stick everybody inthat room to duke it out.
And yet, the narrative afterNCBA, we'll make some decision
this week that won't make myneighbors happy because it looks
like it favored this segmentover that segment.
(52:14):
But, if all of us are focused onthat consumer, We bring more
money in, and that's more moneythat we get to share amongst the
different segments.
And so I think that's somethingthat, that I was reminded.
I haven't been to NCBA in sevenor eight years.
And so I had almost forgottenjust how cool it is to see as
many minds sitting aroundtables, talking at the bar,
(52:37):
talking in the halls, hammeringout the, the resolutions in the
committee meetings, but tryingto do that
Bill (2) (52:43):
exact thing.
You know, Matt, you can, you caneven transfer.
Over into the beef checkoff.
Yeah, yeah.
And there is no doubt, there'stoo much science and too much
proof on when the checkoff tookhold and when we started to see
this turnaround from decline inbeef consumption and in the
(53:05):
market and the consumption towhere it finally turned around
and went the other way.
And I mean, it's lockstep withcheckoff work, with promotion of
the product.
With working with MEF, the MeatExport Federation, on exporting
meat, beef, and all meats tothese foreign countries
(53:26):
economies that love our beef, weare the number one producer of
high quality beef in the world,and there's nobody close.
And so, everybody who's in thecattle business, needs to hear
that, and needs to understandthat.
And the fact is that, That hasworked to all of our benefit.
Matt (53:50):
Well, I jokingly said that it was me graduating from K
State in 96 that turned thetide, but there was something
else that happened.
And you, I'm sure, were sittingin the room.
but in 1996, right here in SanAntonio, this group voted to
merge the National Cattlemen'sAssociation, the policy arm.
(54:10):
And the Beef Industry Council,the National Livestock and Meat
Board, or the Check Were youhere?
Because I wasn't.
I was there.
That was a contentiousdiscussion.
No question.
And there are still some folksthat believe that that was not
the right move.
Some may say that it was theright move, but it wasn't
(54:30):
handled from then forthcorrectly.
And we can all argue that backand forth.
I think it got at exactly whatyou said you were trying to do
in the 1980s.
And that is figure out how wefocus on the consumer and pass
those dollars through the chainto reward us for making the
right decisions.
Bill (2) (54:49):
I agree with you on both points.
That wasn't handled the way itneeded to be handled at the
time.
Uh, and it created some illfeelings that festered for quite
a while in our industry.
I agree.
And, uh Really, quite honestly,that checkoff to do the job that
(55:09):
we ought to be doing shouldprobably be increased today, but
there's a lot of people for fearof losing it completely, don't
want to open that up and try todo it all over again.
And I'm probably part of thatgroup.
I'm more interested inmaintaining and hanging on to
the things that have proved towork for us and for prices.
(55:32):
And for consumer buying of beefand just do the best we can with
what we got.
Uh, let's not forget the moneyfrom the checkoff that went into
the muscle profiling work thatadded how much money to the
chuck, which was a low price cutof meat.
And most of those muscles in thechuck were four or five muscles
(55:53):
going four or five differentways in that shoulder area of
this carcass.
And the fact is that it was lowvalued beef.
It's ground.
And, and then we find a muscleup in that shoulder area, you
know, in the chuck, thathappened to be the most tender
muscle in the entire carcass ofthis animal.
(56:14):
And that went on to create theflat iron steak, the petite
tender, the, uh, What's a coupleof the other ones, Matt?
Matt (56:23):
The flat iron was the first one that I came to mind.
I think there's a chuck eye orsomething.
There is.
There's several in there.
But, uh, yeah.
I mean, that muscle profilingwas the first work that I had
heard of separating out thosemuscles.
And that was, that was simplybecause of beef checkoff
dollars.
Yep.
And what has happened since thenis because the Packer processors
(56:44):
saw that research and figuredout that they could get five,
six, seven times more out ofthat.
Then they started doing the samething and it encouraged, and
that's, that's the cool thingabout when producers spend a
little and hopefully it getsleveraged by the rest of the
industry.
And that's where that checkoff,I think, does things that we
don't even know.
It's not all about advertisingand, uh, on the Super Bowl or
(57:07):
whatever it is everybody wantsto see that beef checkoff do
want to share with your
Bill (2) (57:11):
audience one more thing.
Yeah.
I remember sitting in a meetingwith Nebraska Cattlemen.
Um, we had a meeting in, in, andI think it was Kearney,
Nebraska, and we hadrepresentatives of a couple of
major packers in the state atthat meeting, and one, one old
cattleman, who I knew as a goodfriend, just west of North
(57:33):
Platte, stood up and asked thehead honchos of one of those
packing companies, why don't youguys just pay us more for these
real good, straight Anguscattle?
That, that, that, uh, Alwaysgrade well and everything and
the guy who was fielding thequestion said because we don't
have to and only I might be theonly one that appreciated that,
(57:56):
you know, just from running myown business all these years and
and how you how you want toattack things and how you want
to approach your business, buthe was very honest and very
forward about it.
And I appreciated that that dayvery much.
Matt (58:11):
And we as an industry figured out how to build.
I mean, we're We're sitting inthe U.
S.
premium beef booth right now.
And it would have been, not theonly, but one of the ones that
lasted that said, You know what?
We believe there is a valuedifference.
And a better
Bill (2) (58:27):
way.
Matt (58:27):
And a better way of buying and selling these cattle.
And we're going to incentivizepeople to do the right thing.
And it worked, and it's takenroot, and everybody else has
benefited from it.
So
Bill (2) (58:37):
there was, there was another, there was an old cattle
buyer in that crowd that daywith that same packer.
The guy who was the head upfront.
And he said, when are you goingto start buying these cattle on
a, on a grade merit basis?
And I'll never forget this oneword, never.
And they believed it.
He believed it.
Yeah.
He believed it.
(58:57):
Guess what they're doing today?
80
Matt (58:59):
some percent of them are getting bought on a great deal.
Bill (2) (59:02):
And that's instrument grading.
And that's another thing.
After muscle profiling, ourproduct enhancement committee
worked on that with.
with Ag Research Service, USDA,and had instrument grading in
these plants today.
And my goal and hope is thatwe'll still see a time when we
figure out a way to capturetenderness on these cattle and
(59:25):
incorporate that into our entiregrading system.
Yeah.
Now that, that some of our ownpeople don't care for that that
much at this point in time, andI know it, but I still believe
that it would be worthwhile.
Matt (59:37):
Well, Bill Rieschel at last.
One hour of recording time,which is usually the absolute
upper limit of one of thesepodcasts.
I, you look to me like you'rejust getting warmed up.
I, I mean, I mean,
Matt (2) (59:50):
Barb is over here giving us the cut.
You all are finished signs.
So, I guess, I guess, that's,uh, that's, that's our signal
that we've got to end
Matt (01:00:02):
it.
But, I know that we'll keepthese conversations going, but,
uh, no, I appreciate it a bunch.
Bill (2) (01:00:07):
I appreciate this opportunity and thanks so much
for sitting down here andconsidering this.
Oh, you bet.
I've enjoyed every minute of it.
It, it makes me feel a littlebit younger, if nothing else.
Matt (01:00:20):
Well, guess what?
Uh, you don't have to worryabout that, because anybody
listening here is as quickwitted and as sharp as you've
been, they can tell.
So keep up the good work.
Thanks, man.
And happy late birthday.
You bet you and we justestablished that you're a good
20 days older than tom perrier.
So You all share the same birthyear, birth month.
(01:00:43):
Whatever
Bill (2) (01:00:43):
you do, don't tell Tom that I'm older and wiser.
Matt (01:00:46):
Well, you just did.
Thanks Bill.
Bill (2) (01:00:51):
Take care.
Matt (01:00:52):
Thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to
you by Dalebanks angus.
If you like this show, even ifyou didn't share it with someone
you think would enjoy it, giveus a five star review and a
comment so we can keep crankingthe content out.
As we said at the start of theshow, our spring private treaty
bulls are now available.
If you'd like information on theBulls email, Matt
(01:01:12):
perrier@dalebanks.com or text 62 0 5 8 3 43 0 5 with your email
address and we'll get you thelist.
God bless you all.
We look forward to visitingagain soon.
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