#75 - Marci Penner, Rural By Choice

Marci Penner has served as executive director of Kansas Sampler Foundation since the formation of the 501c3. She has a unique perspective of Kansas having been to every one of the 627 incorporated cities several times for guidebook research. 

Having a reason to observe, have conversations, and note common issues and differences led to the PowerUp Movement (empowerment of those 21-39 who are rural by choice) and the access to resources and topics for the Big Rural Brainstorm and We Kan! Conference. With the opportunity to do guidebook programs and speak at conferences, Marci enjoys the continual journey around the state. She thrives on matching those seeking guidance with resources and to bringing together Good Thinkers who use collective brilliance to move rural communities forward.
A graduate and double-sport letter-winner at the University of Kansas, Marci received her Master’s degree in Counseling and Guidance from the University of Wisconsin. She spent five years as an elementary guidance counselor in the Philadelphia area. She’s happy to be home on the family farm near Inman where the offices of the Kansas Sampler Foundation are located. Marci is dedicated to helping Kansans see Kansas with new eyes and to keeping our communities alive and thriving.

Kansas Sampler Foundation | Pursuing Everyone's Love for Kansas

978 Arapaho Road

Inman, KS 67546
620.960.0552
[e-mail]

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Thanks for joining us forepisode 75 of Practically
Ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier, and we arehere thanks to Dalebanks Angus,
your home for Practical.
Profitable.
Genetics.
(TM).
Since 1904.
Have you ever served as avolunteer leader in your
community?
Have you ever been frustrated bythose leadership paradigms that

(00:26):
seem to rule the day?
Have you ever questioned yourdecision to live and work in the
community that you've chosen tolive and work?
If you answered yes to any orquite possibly all--of the
above, I think this conversationis going to be one that you--can
really relate to.

(00:48):
Marci Penner is the executivedirector of the Kansas Sampler
Foundation.
And through her work with KansasSampler, she has published a ton
of guidebooks, she's authoredseveral other books, the Eight
Wonders of Kansas, and along theway she has kind of adopted a

(01:10):
mission of sorts to inspire andto encourage positive leadership
in rural Kansas.
Now she's clearly a very, veryproud Kansan, but I believe that
her work and her perspectivesare relevant for anybody in
rural America.
She has seen the challenges ofrural development, of

(01:32):
involvement and communityvibrance, or sometimes lack
thereof.
She's heard from leaders likeyou, both young and old, about
the trials and the tribulationsof, of getting things done with
strictly volunteer workforces.
In this episode, we hit onseveral issues that I'll bet may
resonate with you and or yourcommunity.

(01:55):
As usual, we may not give youany solid concrete answers, but
I think sometimes just knowingthat you and your community
aren't the only ones with thesechallenges can be pretty
helpful.
In addition, I'm going toinclude Marci's contact
information and website addressand all kinds of different info

(02:16):
that, um, maybe you can find atidbit of information through
her past writings or newslettersor information that she provides
that may give you even moreinsights and ideas.
And if nothing else, just somereassurance that it truly is a
great blessing to be rural bychoice.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (02:37):
before we get very far into this, I've
seen a lot of backgrounds, as Ihave interviewed folks and seen
people on Zooms and things, youhave to have the most
appropriate background.
And it's a legit poster, right?
Or wallpaper or something.
It's not, yeah, you're gonnashow it to me.
And I don't re record video, sounfortunately the listeners

(03:00):
can't see it.
Oh, that's.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (03:02):
an entire wall

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (03:04):
That's awesome.
So I'll just, I'll try todescribe in Marcy's office, she
has the entire state of Kansasmapped out and, uh, a wide
enough angle that you can prettywell see it east to west, north
to south.
So it's, it's very fitting forwhat I would say, one of Kansas'
biggest cheerleaders throughoutthe decades, uh, Marcy Penner to

(03:26):
have the map of Kansas.
Right, In her background.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (03:30):
When people come in the front door, I
want them to know what we're allabout.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (03:33):
That's awesome.
Well, we have a lot of Kansaslisteners.
We have listeners from acrossthe world, like I said, and
especially United States, and Iwould say 90 some percent of
them live somewhere in ruralAmerica.
And so the things that you havedone for rural Americans, rural
development, specifically in ourstate, rural Kansans, I.

(03:57):
It's pretty inspirational.
And you and I have only metonce, I don't even know if you
would remember when you came, Ithink it was while Heather
Fuesz, our mutual friend and agroup of us were working on
trying to, raise some money forthe Greenwood Hotel renovation.
So it's been 10 or 15, maybepushing 15 or 20 years ago.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (04:14):
Yeah,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (04:15):
but

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_124 (04:16):
I remembered your name

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (04:17):
yes.
Yep, that would be where it wasfrom.
But you've done just someamazing work in, a lot of
different areas.
And I guess the time that Ireally said I've got to have
Marci on the pod was when Iheard you on another podcast, I
think with Kansas HealthInstitute and talking about your
work and talking specificallyabout your phrase, rural by

(04:41):
choice.
Tell me a little about how thatcame about.
Oh, yeah.
You've got it on your T-shirt.
Yeah.
Perfect, perfect.
tell me how that phrase cameabout.
Is it original and what inspiredthat?
Because that, covers the gamutin my opinion.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (04:56):
It, it really does.
I'll, I'll first say that, um,it's now associated with our,
term power ups.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (05:03):
Okay.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (05:04):
the power up movement.
It's 21 to 30 nines who arerural by choice.
And there's so much power inthose words because if you leave
that part off, we're talkingjust about an age group.
But rural by choice is anidentifier about your being,
your attitude, how you see theworld.

(05:24):
I started this with dad in 1990and Deanne Wright, out of
Council Grove working for KansasState, was interviewing dad and
I on the K State radio stationand her and her husband, they
opened a business, really just adowntown storefront called Rural
By Choice.

(05:45):
And so we had been talking and,and it just fit what we did.
And when they closed that down,they sort gifted the

matt_3_05-20-2025_1240 (05:55):
Awesome.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (05:56):
mean, it's not copyright, it's not
it's others.
I've seen it elsewhere.
But it felt good to be giftedthe term in an official way,
including a sign.
but.
It really identifies who andwhat we are, what we do, values

(06:18):
all those things.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (06:20):
And it probably means different things
to different people.
But the thing that struck me,and I think a lot of people
listening to this right now, um,sometimes we are in a place, we
are in a location, a physicalplace because we have to be.
And sometimes that may be ruralAmerica, sometimes that may be

(06:41):
inner city America or evensuburban America, and we don't
necessarily want to be there.
Rural by choice, even thoughthere are gonna be some times
that you go, was this the rightmove?
Should I come back to the familyranch?
Should I have come back andstarted a pharmacy in small town
America instead of going to workfor Walgreens, et cetera, et

(07:02):
cetera.
The overall goal is that I choseto do this.
There are reasons that I thoughtthis was a good idea then, and
I'm gonna be happy with where Iam now.
And I think sometimes in ruralKansas, rural America, that um,
is tough to keep thatmotivation.
Do you see the same thing,

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (07:23):
Yeah.
And to keep going on that alittle bit, it's, it's not like
you're settling

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (07:29):
right?

marci-penner_3_05-20-202 (07:29):
there.
You want to be there.
There's something about livingin a rural community that, that
touches you, that is you, that,and you know, those are the kind
of people we need to sustain ourcommunities is people who are
there by choice, not by default.
Not because they couldn't get ajob somewhere.
They couldn't make it in school.

(07:50):
They're parents, begged them tocome back.
and, and we find that you cantell the difference

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (07:56):
Yeah,

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (07:56):
in people who are rural by choice
and people who just kind of feellike they're stuck And those are
the people that we think willmove rural communities forward.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (08:06):
so we've all seen that difference.
Maybe we've been on both sidesof that line I think immediately
we can conjure up and volunteergroups and then, you know,
sitting next to'em in ball gamesand things like that, we can see
the differences in the mindsetand the attitude.
Have you seen ways that you canhelp folks who do grasp and have

(08:29):
been to some of your conferencesand have decided that this is,
this was my choice and I'm gladthat I did it.
How do you help move folks thatmaybe don't feel like that up to
having that positive attitude?

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_124 (08:44):
I think some people don't think
it's okay.

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (08:48):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (08:49):
And so like if they come to our
conference or, or some, And findout that others are feeling the
same way.
They're proud of it, they'redoing things.
I think it elevates thatattitude in them we like to say
rural is cool, and that doesn'tmean everything about rural is

(09:09):
cool, but when you start lookingfor those things that uh,
special in a way that just youthat, um, feeling in you that,
wow, this is the best place tolive.
I am so glad I'm, I'm here and,and I think one of the jobs we

(09:31):
have is to share those examplesand to speak it and to amplify
it so that others hear it andmm-hmm.
When they do, maybe, andhopefully it'll bring something
out in them.
I, I also think we need to.
Uh, one thing we put in ourKansas Power Up and Go report

(09:52):
was to create the choir, meanswe need to the voices that can
say rural is okay.
It's okay to choose it and sharethat with our, um, graduating
seniors in high school.
And we need to do a better jobof not just living it, but

(10:13):
saying it and, and showing it,wearing it on our sleeve,
wearing it on

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (10:18):
On your shirt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It reminds me just last Sunday,we were up in Manhattan for our
oldest daughter Ava's collegegraduation, and went to Mass the
next morning with her and, and,um, the priest there, father
Gail, part of his homily wasaddressing these graduates as

(10:39):
they moved on from K State.
And he said, you're going to besomeplace different in a month
or a year than you are rightnow.
And you may miss us back here inManhattan.
You may miss your folks at homeor your friends or whatever
else, but you have to find a wayto be.
to be present where you are thenand to be glad that you're

(11:01):
there.
And it's okay to sometimes missand maybe even come back.
But, um, wherever you are,that's where you need to be.
And, and I think sometimes thatwe, yeah, wherever it might be,
we have a hard time finding thatplace and, and being okay with
it and not looking at thegreener grass on the other side
of the fence.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (11:20):
Well, that sounds like a perfect
message for graduates to haveheard.
I, I sometimes think, um,graduates do need to leave,

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (11:30):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (11:30):
to a bigger city, go where you
think is the best place for you.
And find out if you are rural bychoice.
And sometime it doesn't happenuntil they have kids or you
know, something that changestheir perspective a little bit.
But, um, I was in big cities fora while and I know that shaped

(11:52):
me valuing rural more when I didcome back.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (11:58):
Yeah, the folks who have listened to
this podcast much at all know mystory and my wife Amy's story,
but that's what we did.
It doesn't necessarily mean thateverybody has to do that, but
that was almost a rule that ourfamily had and still has that,
um, in addition to whatevertechnical school, trade school,
university, wherever you go tofurther your education after

(12:20):
high school, in addition tothat, you need to live somewhere
else.
Get a paycheck from someone elsewho isn't family, and not just
prove to the world that you cando it, but more importantly,
prove to yourself and make surethat you've tried that first.
Because once right or wrong, we,I, it doesn't matter if it's a

(12:41):
farm or ranch, you, familybusiness, when you move back to
your hometown or even mayberural America in general, I, I
don't know about that part, butwhen you move from college or
from a big city back to ruralAmerica, a lot of times it's
pretty difficult to pick up andmove away again.

(13:02):
And so you better, better haveexperienced those and not always
be wishing that you had

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (13:09):
Yeah, and, and just think about all
the tools people bring back whohave left and

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (13:15):
right.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (13:16):
They bring tools, they bring
perspectives, otherwise ourcommunities become too insular
and, and we need.
Either newcomers coming in or weneed people moving back who
bring something with them.
If you don't mind, I'd, I'd liketo say something about what you

(13:36):
just said.
Sometime people will move backstill in their youngish ages and
they've, they feel like theirhigh school mates who are still
there, look at'em as though theyare losers.
You had to come back.
What was,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (13:54):
Oh.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (13:54):
you fail?
What happened?
Um, you couldn't make it.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (13:59):
Hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (14:00):
And so when I did one of our, my
journeys to every city in thestate to research for a
guidebook in the early twothousands, that's when it really
hit me about these power ups.
I found them lonely.
I found them wanting to have avoice.
I found them.

(14:20):
just wanting to break out oftheir shell, but their voice
wasn't valued.
They, they felt isolated.
they thought maybe I did makethe wrong decision.
our job became to connect themwith other rural by choice young
people around the state.
And it didn't matter how fararound the state, they just

(14:42):
needed to know that there wereothers like them wanted to come
back.
And, as a core, as a collective,they felt strong enough to start
letting their voice be heard andmaking a difference in the way
that they had imagined when theycame back.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (15:02):
Yeah.
And that's, I can, I can see it.
I have seen it, maybe felt it.
Um, and it, it's kind of adouble-edged sword because here
you've gone away to school,maybe a job for a little while
and then come back.
And I think a, you know, you'vemissed out on some growth and
some memories and some thingsthat happened in that four to

(15:26):
eight or 15 years that you weregone.
And now your classmates are muchdifferent.
You might be much different.
And if they were close friends,then, um, there's something
different than there was.
And both of you, both sides ofthat coin are going to go okay.
I wonder what happened.
I wonder why this person is likethis.

(15:48):
And a lot of times it's justlife.
And, and there's a window there.
I was gone for 12 years from,from Eureka, Kansas, um, between
college and, and work.
And I mean, there are thingsthat happened in the mid
nineties to mid two thousandsthat were significant in Eureka
to all of my buddies and all ofthe folks who went straight to

(16:11):
work here and, and had familiesand things like that.
I didn't, I don't even know theyhappened.
And so it does, it, it makes usdifferent.
We have to recognize that.
So we'll come back to some ofthese kind of philosophical
viewpoints and things, but youmentioned something a little bit
ago that I wanna flesh out aboutyour trip to all of the towns in

(16:32):
Kansas.
How many incorporated cities inKansas?
600 and some.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (16:38):
Uh, you know, it, it does change a
little

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (16:40):
I guess that's true.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (16:41):
two thousands it was 627

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (16:43):
Wow.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (16:44):
it's 625.
and, even though we look forexploring things for our type of
guidebook.
We

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (16:51):
I.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (16:51):
put every city in city, meaning down
to, there's a hundredincorporated cities with less
than a hundred population.
But I had to go there to seewhat they had because they don't
often know what they have thatmight be of interest.

(17:12):
in Mclouth, they have this weirdboulder in the middle of a city
street.
It's, it's, it's maybe two, twofoot high and four foot long.
It's a glacial hills boulder,and it's part of a bigger
boulder that's underneath.
And they, they couldn't move it,but the street needed to go
there.

(17:33):
And so they've chipped away andthey ca can't get rid of that
boulder.
But, um.
we it in the guidebook as therock in the middle of the road.
And, and I've even taken a busof explorers there to see it.
And that's an explor thing.
And, and most of our towns havethat, but they don't value those

(17:54):
kind of things I went out,, butit, the journey also turned up,
um, our work on the other sideof things, which is to support
and network rural communitiesand share best practices that
are functional for the smallestof towns.
Um, so it's, I I think the magicof our work is because we go to

(18:22):
every town and see people inplace, see the rock in the
middle of the road, in place.
We don't just read about it in abrochure.
We see it, we feel it, we seethe context of it.
And, and that has fueled everysingle thing we've done.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (18:39):
So tell me a little more about this
journey.
Uh, the first part of it waswith your dad in 1990s.
Is that what you said?
And then, you know, why then,and then how did that go forth?
I.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (18:52):
Yeah.
I moved back from thePhiladelphia area.
I had been an elementaryguidance counselor, but uh, at
some point I had a accident in aweight room and it, uh, I had to
be on medical disability and hadto move home.
And the only job I could holdwas with my dad.
And on my good days, we would godriving around this state to,

(19:15):
work on our first guidebook,which, complimented some work he
had done previously with otherthings.
And that changed my life, thatdriving around with my dad and
starting to see these ruralcommunities.
And after two years of that, weformed the nonprofit, the Kansas

(19:37):
Sampler Foundation, to do thetwo things that we saw, uh, one
was to educate Kansans aboutKansas.
Newsflash, we didn't know ourown state very well.
And the second thing was thatsome of these small towns were
finding really cool, easy,grassroots ways to sustain

(19:57):
themselves.
But back in the nineties, therewasn't email Facebook, there
wasn't a way to share thesethings.
And so we wanted to all of thesethings and, and also we didn't
feel like, I don't wannadisparage the state, but in

(20:19):
those days, they weren't reallythinking about the 75% of the
cities in Kansas that werevolunteer led or under the
population of 1500.
with good reason.
There wasn't a connection, therewasn't a way to communicate, um,
these small towns.
They maybe didn't have a chamberoffice.

(20:39):
They didn't have, wasn't a wayto have a constant contact
person each and every year.
And so we started really, um,doing all the things we did for
the purpose of supporting thosevolunteer led communities.

(21:00):
And I think we helped, not onlythe state, but other nonprofits
and other organizations moreeasily connect with these
communities in a way that theycould then support or help them
or know them or go to them.
And so that's how it started.
Just dad and I driving aroundthe state, forming a nonprofit,

(21:22):
writing guidebooks, andfollowing our noses.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (21:26):
And what you saw and what that first
arrival in Mclouth, Kansas orwherever the case may be, I
think is some of the benefit ofwhether it be leaving and coming
back to your own rural communityor showing up in someone's
community, a new person showingup to a rural community and
asking questions.

(21:48):
How come that storefront isstill there and yet so
dilapidated.
That's one of the coolest piecesof architecture I've ever seen,
and I've traveled this wholeworld and those of us that have
lived there and driven down thatmain street for 47 years, go,
what's so big about thatbuilding?
There's nothing, nothing hasbeen run down since the sixties.

(22:11):
Why would anybody care?
Well, sometimes it takes MarcyPenner showing up, or it takes
Joe Blow from Philadelphia, orwhatever the case may be, to see
things through a different lensand a different perspective.
Now, the tough part is thoseleaders of our rural
communities, me included, have areally tough time when someone

(22:33):
who doesn't have a familiar nameor a familiar accent, or a
familiar look or whatever thecase may be, it's hard for us to
go, yeah, that's a great idea.
Let's figure out how we canbuild some value back into that
building, or whatever the casemay be.
How, how do you do that?
How do you take the good withthe bad?

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (22:52):
Well, that's why I personally don't
think the formula systems work

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (22:57):
Okay.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (22:57):
I, I agree with you.
I don't think you can just go inand say, Hey, this is, this is a
great strategy.
Here are the steps to do it.
If you do this, you'll help yourcommunity.
I think you have to find a wayto help those local community
doers see those possibilities.

(23:19):
And and you can't just go in andsay that.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (23:23):
Right.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (23:24):
that doesn't help either.
I, I think that the conferenceswe've done from the big rural
brainstorm to the weekendconferences, which are built on
peer to peer sharing, um, theKansas Sampler Festival that we
did, which, which, okay.
Getting too excited, Matt.
Let me

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (23:44):
no.
That's why you're on here.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (23:46):
well, those conferences, um, let's say
you or Heather or somebody wentto them and you saw that it, uh,
a certain, plan work for someoneelse and you heard about how
they did it now you choose to gohome and do that,

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (24:10):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (24:11):
and there will be so much more
buy-in than if you hire aconsultant

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (24:15):
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20-202 (24:16):
here's how to do it.
seen towns like yours before.
I just.
Over these 30 years, I've seenthose consultants come and go
and I just don't see thesticking power them.
But if you can change the localenthusiasts

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (24:36):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (24:37):
and help them know the resources and
maybe guide them to the tools orthe people that can help or help
fund, um, I think then you'vegot a real chance.
And I think that's happened withmyreka.
I think, that's happened.
I've seen it happen all over thestate, but only because someone

(24:57):
in that town was inspired,likely by going to another town
and doing something.
The Kansas Sampler Festival wasan event to bring people
together to say what they hadfor you to see and do.
and first we had to teach peoplethat explorer things were worth

(25:20):
promoting and everybody cametogether in one at first.
We had it on our farm for eightyears.
Um, but it wasn't just thepublic coming to get the
information that was important.
It was the people behind thebooth going to each other's
booths

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (25:41):
Hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (25:41):
to see, oh, you think that was of
interest to the public?
Or, oh, look how you'repromoting this.
I could do that because none ofthese people, 90% of the folks
that were promoting hadn'tpromoted anywhere else.
It was very grassroots.
so they were showing each otherhow to tell their story in a

(26:03):
very low budget way that feltdoable to others.
And I think the only way to makeprogress.
In a community is for thosepeople to be inspired because as
you know, Matt, with theGreenwood Hotel Project, it, it

(26:24):
takes patience, dedication,perseverance.
This is not for wimps to sustainvolunteer led communities,
especially.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (26:34):
Yeah, it, it's not, and that that
persistence part of it, um, iscritical.
And, and it's, again, it's kindof a, uh, it's kind of a
double-edged sword becausethings seem to take so long in
rural America to take root,build enough energy and support

(26:56):
behind them, and then enoughfunding to actually make them
happen quite often, um, and getthat change of, of outlook and
perspective and culture to getthem rolling that sometimes, you
know, this kind of common threeto six year term that you're
usually on a volunteer board ofdirectors in a lot of different

(27:17):
types of organizations.
You're on there for 20 yearsbefore you finally get something
across the finish line, and thenmaybe another 10 or 15 to just
keep the thing going.
consequently a lot of ourvolunteer boards, at least in
our community, and I don't thinkwe would be unique in this
historically, have been probablyhalf or more retirement age and

(27:41):
older.
Um, let's, let's talk about thata little bit and, and just to
make sure that we coverourselves.
We have all ages listening tothis podcast, probably a little
heavier on the 30 somethings anddown.
But, um, but no, we, we have allages that wanna learn, and
that's a challengingenvironment.

(28:02):
I don't care if it's a local,,preservation society or social
club or a state organization.
Whatever the case may be.
You've got a lot of gray-hairedfolks telling the energetic 20
year olds, wait your turn.
How do you, how do you balancethose two things?
Because they're both very, veryvaluable.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_124 (28:21):
I think we're still missing a
piece

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (28:23):
Okay.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (28:24):
and, we call that communities of the
future, we haven't, you know,it's been something growing in,
in my mind, um, in our minds aswe continue to travel the state.
Um, and it has to do withgetting every age group

(28:44):
involved.
I call it the eight to 98 plan,which it's just a concept in my
head, but.
If we can get everybody helpingeach other, if you can have a
cohesive community likes itself,you are much more likely to not
just have those 12 on the boarddoing all the work.

(29:07):
I mean, the goal is to havealmost everybody in the
community feeling like they canbe involved, like they can
participate, like their voiceneeds to be heard.
We, need to stop having the 70,80 year olds telling the 20, 30
year olds, this is how you doit.
What we need to do is have thoseolder folks with all their

(29:28):
wisdom, say to the youngers,tell me how you see this.
What would you do?
What's your idea?
How can I support you?
And, and it'd be really great ifthe younger ones then said.
This is what I'm thinking, butyou probably know how to handle
this part that I don't see.
It's that mutual respect.

(29:49):
it's finding a way really havefeel like they're a team.

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (29:58):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (29:59):
You know, when the local sports team
goes to state, everybody is inthe bleachers.
How can we replicate thatfeeling so that it's about our
town not just for one year ortwo years, but it's for decades
it, it, you know, it's just soexciting that people, kids don't

(30:22):
wanna leave.
They, they say, well, I was soinvolved when I was young.
They listened to me.
I got to give away money forthis project and that, you know.
It, it, it's creating a love foryour town.
It's creating a, I want to behere, but I wanna make a
difference.
It's, it's about listening toall viewpoints.

(30:45):
It's the leadership paradigm.
Matt, the leadership paradigm isa little messed up,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (30:53):
You don't say.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (30:57):
and I truly believe it's the more,
the bigger percentage of peoplein a town that you can get
involved and feeling likethey're contributing to the good
of the town.
Um, the better chance you haveof having a thriving town that
everybody wants to live in,whether it's 90 people or 900

(31:19):
people, I mean, don't you wannalive in a town where you feel
like you're and loved and peopleare interested in you?

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (31:28):
And have a purpose and have, you
know, yeah.
That

marci-penner_3_05-20-20 (31:32):
you're, even if you're 80 and have a
purpose.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (31:35):
right.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (31:36):
And we can do that because even at
80, you're gonna have talentsand gifts that aren't gone

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (31:42):
Oh, without a doubt.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (31:44):
And then you're more likely to give
money because you're being madeto feel like still somebody.
You're still somebody in a thatfeels like they're somebody in a
town where everybody feels thatway.
Now, that's a community.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (32:03):
That is.
So without naming anycommunities, can you describe
what a healthy rural communitythat fits what you just
described, uh, what they have,how did they get there?
What does their, let's say,elected or appointed leadership

(32:23):
and, and how, how does it allwork?
Because I think any of us couldtalk about the other extreme and
what doesn't work.
Um, gimme some examples of howyou see and, and is maybe there
isn't just a cookie cutter.
But if there is, I'd love tohear it.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (32:42):
well, I wouldn't say it's cookie
cutter because we're all sodifferently, whether it's the
geography or the resources orwhatever it is, but there's,
there's two kinds of cultures.
The, the one I'm thinking of,and you said not to say names
and, and there's

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (32:59):
You can.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (33:01):
okay, Caldwell, I love Caldwell.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (33:04):
Okay.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (33:05):
have this, and it might just be a, a
look from an outsider, maybe theinsiders.
No, there's still gonna begrumpy people in Caldwell, but,
from what, what I've seen over30 years, they still have this
same culture of volunteerism.
Everybody volunteers easily.
You don't have to twist theirarm.

(33:27):
they have a few key people whojust keep things enthusiastic
and fun.
There's a three letter word thatis essential to a cohesive
community.
this community of 1200, justbuilt this fabulous new
hospital.
So people want to invest inCaldwell.

(33:51):
You can walk down this Chisholmtrail, this historic Chisholm
Trail town and see these, brassplaques, maybe two in every
block or one in every block.
So if, if the museum is closed,you just walk down and you read
the story, but there's so muchpride evident.
if there's a, kind of a eateryopening, they check with the

(34:16):
eatery across the street to seehow they can not be open.
At the same time, they careabout the success of each other.
And I could go on and on.
Oh, they're also very acceptingof newcomers and you don't have
to look like everyone else intown to be accepted.
I think that welcoming, a senseof belonging, getting everybody

(34:41):
involved, having fun, it in away that people want to invest.
invest can mean not just money.
Great school system with a, um,soup who's part of the community
and.
I'm not gonna say this is, thishasn't been true every year, but

(35:02):
currently Caldwell has an allwomen's city council, a woman,
city administrator, and a woman.
Is it the sheriff or, the toplaw enforcement person And then
the city clerk is the guy, it's,it's not just being a woman.
It's, it's about how, how theyall get along and they're not

(35:23):
trying to get the credit fromone another.
They don't really have this egothat's trying to this power
thing and they bring otherpeople into the conversation and
the local, telephone Telco putsmoney in to create this venue
that the community uses in a,the mural in town.

(35:46):
They gave a chance for everybodyto be involved in the mural.
Not just painting, but paintingsomething about you.
Okay?
So that's, that's one culture Isee for successful.
The other is when the rightperson people or family comes
into town and changes the energythe town or someone leaves.

(36:11):
So something has, in a stagnanttown, something has to happen
for the town to get juiced up,and it could be that a few key
people go to a conferencesomewhere and they come back all
enthused.
But you can't be the only oneenthused.
But if the right people comeinto town or leave town, I think

(36:33):
there's a chance for a newenergy.
And it's, and it's really fun tosee those well.
Now we've got all the grumpypeople, people that, um, say
this is not gonna work.
And it might be one loud voice,there's, you know, I've, I've

(36:56):
heard great strategies of handlethose people.
And it's just to go to them andsay, okay, how would, how would
you do it?
I wanna hear your thoughts andput'em to the test.
would you do it?
Um, we, even at our conferences,we have something called the
Reframe Rule, and we have ayellow card.

(37:17):
And if anyone starts beingnegative or sapping the energy
in the room or saying, oh, we'venever done it that way.
Someone can flash the yellowcard and it's, they, we help
them reframe what they said sothat it doesn't pull everybody
down.
Maybe there's a good point inwhat they're trying to say, but

(37:39):
they're doing it in a way that'skilling the energy.
So we have to help these peoplerealize they're killing their
town, man, help them figure outhow to use language in a way.
I, I know they would rather bepart of exciting things.

(38:00):
They just haven't been taughtthat they don't know that yet
about themselves,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (38:05):
I mean, who wouldn't want,

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (38:07):
part of positive.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (38:08):
yeah, a hundred percent.
So as far as leadership goesand, and we can talk either the
successful communities thatyou've seen really work well or
we can say the ones that, thathave a problem.
One thing that's interesting tome, and you touched on this a
little bit ago when you weresaying, you know, your city
council or your board shouldn't.

(38:30):
Have to be the only ones thatare doing everything, and yet,
quite often in rural America,that's exactly what it is.
I've gotten the opportunity tobe on quite a few different
volunteer boards, both at thelocal level where I started, and
then kind of at some state andnational levels as well.
I'm gonna throw Eureka under thebus because that's what I'm most

(38:52):
familiar with.
Our Eureka boards, nearly everysingle board that I can think
of, whether it be volunteer orelected or whatever the case may
be, those board members willhave their monthly or quarterly
or whatever meetings they willvote on all of the, the
business.
Hopefully set some kind oflong-term strategy in addition

(39:15):
to that, and then also be taskedwith all of the grunt work.
You get to the national levelboards and quite often you
either have staff or key peoplewho do a lot of the grunt work
or, or you're hiring anaccountant or whatever the case
may be, and those people thatare on the board are there to do

(39:35):
two main things, set long-termstrategy and hire or fire the
director, the CEO or whateverthe case may be.
Is it a cultural thing?
Is it just a lack of population?
And, and why do we in RuralAmerica task the quote unquote
leaders and hopefully thoughtleaders with not only taking a

(39:58):
step back because I think youcan make better decisions when
you're not in the trencheshaving to do every single amount
of work that that communityorganization's doing.
How do we, can we do that?
Should we do that?
Is that possible?
Have you seen boards at a locallevel that then also sometimes
give away the power to thepeople so that they can go and

(40:21):
help carry out the mission?
Or is that just non-existentwhen we're talking about
communities of 2,500 people inless?

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (40:29):
Well, you know, especially in these
volunteer led communities, Ithink there's just capacity as a
real issue.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (40:36):
Sure.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (40:37):
It's a real issue.
What you're saying would beideal.
Um, I, you know, I think weshould blow up a lot of ways.
We've done things in the past,even boards,

matt_3_05-20-2025_12402 (40:49):
Mm-hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2 (40:49):
Meetings need to be different.
And, and I'm talking volunteerled communities because

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (40:54):
Yep.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (40:55):
are the ones where you can make
changes.
Um, you, you don't have tofollow all the I mean, really
there's more, leeway to dothings differently.
I think people sign up becausein small towns, because they,
they do wanna be involved.
but it is special when you findthese communities where the

(41:18):
board, makes the plan, puts outthe word like in Axl, population
400 in Marshall County.
Uh, they needed a grocery store.
So everyone who knew how tobuild things came in and built
it.
It's community owned, it'scommunity, supported by people
who were doing the hammering andnailing well, they're gonna come

(41:40):
in and buy, the kids saw this,so then they wanna get involved.
You know, it's, it's thatculture thing.
Matt, it's, I think in smalltowns, we just think boards, you
know, you get the new person whocomes into town, you slap'em on
a board.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (41:58):
Yep.

marci-penner_3_05-20- (41:59):
regarding boards, I, I really think we
sometime don't think boldenough.
We don't realize that if, ifthis meeting or this board isn't
exciting or if it's not doingmuch or if we just rehash the
same things every time, or ifthe same people are on it for

(42:20):
decades, it's okay to blow it upand do it differently.
Um, but it, it seems like weneed someone to offer a
substitute plan

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (42:35):
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (42:36):
for some of those things, and that's
part of our communities of thefuture in the eight to 98 plan.
So it, it's one of the, uh,pluses of being able to go to
every town in the state becauseyou see how everybody does it a
little differently, and it's achance to grab this or take that
or eliminate that, see howsomeone else has done it, what

(42:59):
might work.
And I think we just get stuck indoing things the way we've
always done'em.
And that's why we need to say tothe 20 somethings, well, how
would you do it?

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (43:11):
Yep.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (43:13):
Let's do it different.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (43:15):
Well, and as we see population decline
in rural America and, and I hatethat, but it is a fact of life
and I don't know whether that wecan stem that tide or even turn
it the other way.
But by and large, there are fewfolks, especially few folks who
are willing and able to serve onsome of these boards than there

(43:39):
were 50 years ago.
And yet most of us are still,and I'll just pick on
agriculture.
You've probably got a countyfarm bureau or farmer's union
board.
You've probably got a countyCattlemen's association board,
maybe a county Cattle Women'sAssociation board.
You've got a soil conservationor uh, county, uh, conservation

(44:04):
board.
You've got a rural water board.
Quite often you've probably gota rural watershed drainage
board.
A lot of these meet monthly anda lot of them have probably 30
to 70% overlap of the same boardmembers just on volunteer
agricultural boards in 105counties in the state of Kansas.

(44:27):
And I don't think it's anywhereany different, anywhere else.
I remember after the first year,just like you said, I moved home
in 2004 and I was fresh meat.
I mean everybody, you know, ohgood, you can.
I've been on this board for 20years.
You get to be my replacement.
And after being asked by five orsix different boards in a matter
of two or three years, I went,why don't we have one ag board

(44:51):
and take care of all thebusiness?
And have one meeting a monthinstead of six times 12.
Oh, you can't do that becauseyou know, you got all this
business and dah, dah, dah, dah.
And I'm like, well, I, somepeople might be willing to serve
on all these boards, but I amnot one of them.
I, I will do a few, I will do alittle, I'll try to give back
and, but yeah, I think when youtalk about blowing up boards,

(45:17):
um, that is a bitter pillsometimes for folks to swallow.
But I don't know any otheroption in order to go forth
because the volunteerism, thewillingness to spend time away
from family or business orpersonal time or whatever else,
and the number of people isgoing to dictate that we have
to.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (45:38):
We have to do things differently.
We have to be bold.
We have to.
Our conference in April was, uh,taking I transforming ideas from
blah to bold.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (45:49):
Hmm.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (45:49):
And really hard to come up with the
bold, but, uh, rural communitylisteners out there, we gotta do
it.
We can't just do things in aregular way that we've always
done'em.
So Matt, you're telling me theydidn't blow up all the boards
and make one?

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (46:09):
Uh, I don't know of one of those that
I mentioned that is no long,that has ceased to exist.
Um, and I mean, for instance,one of them, I'll again pick out
the one that I probably havebeen the most active with the
Greenwood County Cattleman'sAssociation.
It predates the Kansas LivestockAssociation, believe it or not.

(46:31):
Um, and, and so there is somehistory and tradition and things
there that I think are worthholding onto, but there is also
the glaringly obvious fact ofthe matter that I.
You can only cycle through somany times on that volunteer
board before you go, Hey, youknow, I know what we're gonna

(46:53):
do.
I know the motions that we'regonna make at the annual spring
meeting.
I know the schedule for the fallCattleman's day parade.
I know that we're gonna help theyouth out at the four h sale.
I'll do that, but I don't wannasit on the board.

marci-penner_3_05-20-20 (47:06):
Mm-hmm.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (47:07):
you know, there's, I, I hope that we
can figure out ways to, hold on,what is it?
I heard, um, cherish thetradition and chart the future
or something like that becausethere's, there's ways that both
of those, I think can still be apositive thing for, for the
community and keep and be ableto keep folks involved enough
that we can do the business.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (47:28):
Well, uh, have you ever have those,
we're gonna use you as anexample.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (47:35):
love it.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (47:36):
Let's say there's 12 boards that
you're talking about.
they ever been in the same room?
present in a three minute thingwhat they do, what their purpose
is.
Because I think sometime, um,you, you might know that they
all exist, but they haven't beenin the same room to hear each
other echo what the other onedoes.

(47:58):
And it might be come soglaringly obvious if they were
together we did something inInman once called the state of
the Town.
And part of it was we gave everynonprofit a two minute chance to
say not what they did, but whattheir goals were.
Because if you just get into thehistory of it, uh,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (48:21):
You, you've got a six day conference.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_12 (48:24):
we got a six day conference and it
was really instructive to people'cause they had never.
Heard all the nonprofits in onesetting being described and the
community was invited.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (48:38):
It's a great idea.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2 (48:39):
Correct.
So, you know, who should come tothat, um, meeting with the 12
boards?
Should it be just peopleinvolved or should it be the
community?
There's, I think, ways to handlethings, but, uh, I'll say this
on your air, Matt, you might endup cutting this part, but you

(49:00):
either need to be sippingwhiskey or be sleep deprived or,
uh, have just run a marathon tocome up with the best ideas.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (49:08):
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20- (49:09):
otherwise we just get in this regular rut
and it's really hard to seethings like, why don't we try
this?
Our minds are so filled with.
Survival in a way in rural,doing the primary things that we

(49:30):
don't have a lot of white spaceto think about.
The whiskey induced ideas thatmight break, old paradigms up
and allow us to figure out anattempt at something different.
I appreciate attempts, theydon't all work,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (49:48):
Sure.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (49:49):
but I appreciate a community that's
elastic enough to allow tryingsome new things.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (49:57):
We'd brought up, and I think I
mentioned where we met, was whenwe were working on the hotel
project and restoring an old.
150 year old, I think, uh, hotelon Main Street, Eureka, Kansas,
Greenwood Hotel.
That, and I wasn't part of it,but that was a whiskey induced

(50:17):
idea.
I believe.
Um, Heather and four or fiveother ladies that were at the
Greenwood County Cattleman'sBanquet, I think sat down around
a table and, um, there had beena bit of a catalyst, I think
within the community, a grocerystore wanting to expand or
something, and basically knockedthe hotel down and they said,

(50:38):
what do we need to do?
And um, they got on, got on itand recruited some folks.
And, and that would be a classicexample of a time that that's
what it took.
It took that passion and thatenergy and maybe a little
whiskey or whatever it mightmight have been that evening,
um, to.
Inspire everybody and um, and,and they got that done.

(51:01):
It, it hasn't been without itschallenges and continues to be
so, but, um, those are types ofthings that I think are worth,
worth doing and getting behind.
so we in the process created,guess what?
Another organization withanother board that has to have
another set of meetings and wedidn't get rid of any of the old

(51:22):
ones.
And, and that's the challenge.
How, how do you do that?
How do you move forward and dothings that need to be done
today and say this means thatwe're gonna have to cut out
something that needed to be done50 years ago, but maybe doesn't
need a monthly meeting today.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (51:41):
You know, I don't, uh, we're not
picking on, on the hotel, butwe're using it as an

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (51:47):
Sure.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (51:48):
Um, but the truth is maybe if they
had all the business theyneeded, not need that board
because it would be, becomeprofitable and it would be
running on its own.
You know what I mean?
Um, so.
Sometime we need to say, do weneed a board or do we need to

(52:10):
put money in a marketing planorganization or a business plan,
or, or do we need to go outsideof the community to get some i
ideas or input or infusion ofsomething funds.

(52:31):
But there's, there's probably anexample in another rural
community of a historic hotelthat's made it, it might be that
a certain chef needs to come totown and, open right beside it,
or in it to make the hotel work.

(52:52):
the, the thing about boards, wedo rehash the same things over
and over again because, Betweenmeetings, we're doing all sorts
of other things in our life.
We're not going around the stateor country to find the example
that might pry us loose fromwhere we're stuck.
And when do you know you'restuck?

(53:12):
Is it the second meeting or isit the 22nd meeting?
So

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (53:16):
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (53:17):
know you're, you're stuck.
So you don't know.
You should go out and look for adifferent solution than just
meeting every month.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (53:25):
I think here we are almost at the
hour mark, and you've opened acan of worms that I think could
be another hour long discussion.
But I think the overarchingquestion there, and to describe
for those folks who aren't herein this Greenwood County, Kansas
area, the Greenwood Hotelactually is no longer a working
hotel, not today.

(53:45):
It used to be three story grandHotel through the late 18
hundreds and early 19 hundreds,and, um, beautiful structure.
But today, all we got done andit, it was, it took a lot of
funds and a lot of volunteereffort to get this done.
But all we got done was sealingthe exterior envelope of that
hotel, fixing the windows,fixing the roof, making sure it

(54:07):
wasn't leaking and falling apartto the ground.
And refinishing the first floor.
And it's a community eventscenter and people can rent it
out for meetings.
They can rent it out for weddingreceptions and birthday parties
and what have you.
And it's a great place,

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (54:23):
Yeah.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (54:24):
but it is barely, in its current state,
self-sufficient.
And if we were honest withourselves and charged ourselves
back for the, and I I'm sayingourselves, I'm no longer on the
board.
My mother is, and so many othersthat put in tons of volunteer
hours just to keep that thinggoing.

(54:44):
Um, I have seen very few, andI'm finally getting to my
question.
I've seen very few occurrenceswhere a volunteer board in rural
Kansas has been able to take ahistorical building, a, uh, a, a
festival, something and get itto the point where I.
It can be sustained on its ownbecause it is a thriving

(55:08):
business, or it is a thrivingnonprofit that makes more money
than it spends.
Um, how do you get to thatpoint?
How do you take these nonprofit,volunteer mindset, um,
renovations or, or parades, orfestivals or whatever it is that
we spend all this time on andget'em to the point where they

(55:29):
fly on their own?

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (55:31):
Well, they saved the building.
It's not a parking lot.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (55:34):
Yep.
Yeah, it was a success.
I don't get me wrong, it was asuccess.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (55:39):
But, at what point are we willing to
say, okay, if someone came inand had a for-profit plan for
this building, would we allowthat to happen?
You know, save the, the exteriorso that banker building missing

(55:59):
on Main Street.
Would we be okay with that?
And it depends a little bit onthe personality of the
entrepreneur coming in to say,I, I wanna make it into the best
steakhouse in southeast Kansas.
But wouldn't that be

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (56:18):
That would be awesome.
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (56:20):
for that and.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (56:25):
And I guess the, the, my overarching
question is, you put it on, isit the second or the 22nd
meeting that we say we've gottenstagnant?
I would say, is it the, thesixth month or the 60th month
that we have barely broken evenand haven't paid ourselves one
thin dime for all the time thatwe're putting into this.

(56:49):
Where do we have to go fromhere?
Do we have to say it was avaliant effort and close up
shop?
Do we have to say we're willingto run that risk and sell, quote
unquote, sell out to someone andknow that if that person goes
under, we have to be okay withthe whole project or the whole
parade or the whole whatevergoing under, and that that is,

(57:10):
that's a tough, tough decision.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (57:12):
You know, here's what I do.
so easy to say this.
and, and first of all, you knowthose people who are involved in
this and, and you know, theywould do it for no money.
I mean, that's who rural is.
But to honor them, you wannafind a success.

(57:33):
So what I would do is put outthis RFP of good thinkers and
invite people from all over thestate, anywhere just to come
help us figure out how to, andmeet in the Greenwood or on that
whittle bench.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (57:49):
Yeah.
Love that.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (57:51):
Uh, you know, to get an infusion of
ideas from everywhere and, andstate agencies or, or a
congressman or, eight year oldsor a really energetic group from
outside to come see this placedifferently because I can tell

(58:15):
you those people on that board,they see it in a certain way and
you want their vision to cometrue because they worked at this
so hard.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (58:26):
for sure.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (58:27):
you also wanted to be productive for
Eureka, not just now, but fordecades to come.
So.
Bring in a pretty, not just anormal group, you have to think
a little outside the box.
You have to be proven to havebold thinking.
Maybe we'll have whiskey,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (58:50):
That's how the hotel got started, that
that was one of the first thingswe had at our meeting.
How do we save all the um.
Lock boxes that were back in thegentleman's only, of course
corral club at the back of the,uh, of the hotel.
'cause they had their liquorlockers to where they could keep

(59:11):
their bottle of old crow orwhatever in there and go access
it whenever they were at thehotel.
So, but yeah, I mean, it's thatoutsider's perspective.
And the thing that I like aboutyou, Marcy, and we mentioned it
just a little bit ago, youdidn't say go hire a
professional to come in and tellyou what you're doing wrong.
You said, go hire a bunch ofenergetic, rural Kansans or

(59:35):
rural Americans to come in andlet them surface some ideas and
then be willing to say, Hey,we'll give it a try.
I that power of, outsider'sperspective is important.
And that's, that's what is goodabout a quote unquote
consultant, but the power of anoutsider's perspective.

(59:55):
Who has.
Seen some of the same issuesjust in another part of the
state or nation or world, Ithink is even more powerful.
And, and that's, that's a greatway, in my opinion, to kind of
wrap this up and, and talk aboutjust how critical it is for
leaders to not just think thatthey're leading everybody by

(01:00:18):
themselves.
There are other folks out therethat are having some of the same
growing pains and having some ofthe same frustrations with what
it is they're doing or theircommunity is doing.
And, and, uh, yeah, thecommunication and the sharing of
ideas, whether it be through,um, you know, we can, and, and,
um, power up and your big ruralbrainstorm and all these

(01:00:41):
different things that you've puttogether there with the Kansas
sampler and your work.
Um, they're, they're huge.
I mean, they can really, Ithink, help folks out a lot.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (01:00:50):
Yeah, and I, I just wanna make sure I
wouldn't hire people to come inand help.
You think

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:00:55):
Right.

marci-penner_3_05-20-202 (01:00:56):
people would want to,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:00:57):
Yeah.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_ (01:00:58):
they would

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:00:59):
And, and that is a difference.
I mean that, um, again, youjust, you said if people have
that purpose and that passionand, and want to come and help,
whether they're within oroutside of the community, it's
probably gonna be even morevaluable than if you hired
somebody with a lot of zeroesafter their doll after the

(01:01:19):
dollar signs.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025 (01:01:20):
yeah.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:01:22):
Well, Marcy, that's great.
Great info and insights and, um,I'm gonna list for folks
listening.
I'm gonna list, uh, your contactinfo, if that's okay.
And, uh, if people wanna reachout and see kind of some of your
schedules.
Uh, do you have anything comingup?
I know you just had, you said aconference here recently.
Do you have anything scheduledon the horizon?

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (01:01:41):
Uh, just from the explore side of
things,

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:01:43):
Okay.

marci-penner_3_05-20-2025_1 (01:01:43):
big Kansas Road trip popups, which
showcases communities in a waythat, um, helps them and excites
Kansans about being a Kansan.
So Kansas sampler.org.
But you're, you're gonna saythat, um, uh, no, we don't have
any conferences.

(01:02:04):
Uh, right now.
We do do a logs, um, but justemail me.
I'll get you on our weekendtidbits list and that'll keep
you informed.

matt_3_05-20-2025_1240 (01:02:13):
Perfect.
Perfect.
Well, that'll be great and uh,we will do that and, uh, um,
yeah, just can't, uh, can'tthank you enough for being on
here with us today and all thegood work that you have done
throughout the time and, uh,we'll keep in touch.

marci-penner_3_05-20-202 (01:02:28):
Thanks for inviting me, Matt.

matt_3_05-20-2025_124024 (01:02:30):
You bet.
You bet.
Thanks for tuning in toPractically Ranching, brought to
you by Dalebanks angus.
If you like this show, share itwith someone else, give us a
five star review and a commentso we can keep cranking'em out.
We've sold all of our springcalving females, but we will
have another set of fall calvingbred cows available for sale

(01:02:50):
private treaty in the next fewweeks.
Drop me an email if you'reinterested and we'll get you
information on this really niceset of registered females.
And be sure to get our annualsale on your calendar.
It'll be Saturday, November22nd, 2025.
Lastly, I wanna give kudos toour daughter Hannah, who got
pulled in to help me edit thisweek's episode.

(01:03:13):
Hopefully I can get her to dothe same on, uh, most of the
episodes this summer.
Heck, maybe I'll just turn thewhole thing over to the kids for
an episode or two.
But, uh, thank you to Hannah andall of our kids who are helping
a bunch this spring around theranch, around the house, and,
um, every place else as theyfinish up with their school this

(01:03:33):
spring.
So, God bless you all.
I look forward to visiting againsoon.