#76 - Josh White, Always Be Prepared to Give an Answer

Links:

National Cattlemen’s Beef Association

Beef Quality Assurance - BQA

Masters of Beef Advocacy

Environmental Stewardship Award Program

Stockmanship & Stewardship

Cattlemen’s College

Rancher’s Resilience Grant

U S Roundtable for Sustainable Beef

Josh White serves as the Sr. Executive Director - Producer Education & Sustainability for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association (NCBA). He is a fourth-generation cattleman whose first experiences with cattle trace back to helping with his grandfather’s commercial Hereford cows in central Georgia as a child. By age twelve Josh had purchased his first heifer, began building his own herd and became a self-professed cattle nerd.  After graduating with honors from Berry College (’95) in northwest Georgia with a degree in Animal Science, Josh worked in private industry and grew his cattle herd, while also serving as a volunteer leader in several county, state and national ag and cattle organizations. 

In 2009 Josh took the opportunity to move from a volunteer leader role to full time industry service and joined the Georgia Cattlemen’s Association and Georgia Beef Board as Executive Vice President, serving there until joining NCBA in 2014. In his current role as Sr. Executive Director – Producer Education & Sustainability with NCBA, Josh and his team are working to capitalize on the rich histories of the Beef Quality Assurance, Masters of Beef Advocacy, Environmental Stewardship Award Program, Stockmanship & Stewardship, and Cattlemen’s College programs while moving these initiatives forward to deliver even greater value to NCBA members and the cattle industry. New programs like the Rancher’s Resilience Grant are a true passion for Josh and the team – finding ways to empower even more producers to participate in impactful educational opportunities. In addition to overseeing numerous programs, Josh provides leadership for NCBA’s policy funded sustainability efforts and supports beef checkoff funded efforts associated with sustainable cattle production. 

Josh was recently awarded the Continuing Service Award by the Beef Improvement Federation for his passionate service to BIF over the past decade.  He currently serves on the Beef Focus group for the USDA Meat Animal Research Center (Clay Center, NE) and on the Animal Science Advisory Council at his alma mater. He also represents NCBA on the U S Roundtable for Sustainable Beef and serves as co-chair of the Cattle Health & Welfare committee at the Global Roundtable for Sustainable Beef. Josh continues to own cattle on the family farm in Georgia.  He and his wife of 29 years, Erin, live in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Their three children are scattered around the country in early career or college, and they have one exceptional grandchild. 

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Thanks for joining us forepisode 76 of Practically
Ranching.
I'm Matt Perrier, and we're herethanks to Dale Banks Angus, your
home for Practical.
Profitable.
Genetics.
since 1904.
My guest this week is JoshWhite.
I've known Josh since I waselected to the Beef Improvement
Federation Board in 2016.

(00:27):
Uh, we've both moved on fromthose board positions at BIF,
but we caught up for thisface-to-face visit while we were
at the annual BIF symposium inAmarillo, Texas last week.
Now, as loyal listeners to thispodcast can attest, I have kind
of a soft spot for students ofthe beef industry.

(00:47):
Josh clearly does as wellbecause he spent his entire
professional career eitherserving as a volunteer leader or
a staff member of variousproducer organizations, first in
the southeast, then on anational scale.
And in fact, Josh's love forcattle and education and

(01:07):
learning led him to purchase hisfirst cow from his grandfather
when he was 12 years old, andthen that entire cow herd by the
time he was age 16.
In nearly all of his roles, he'sbeen helping educate others all
the while, soaking in quite abit of this learning for himself
in the process.
For the last decade, he hasserved as the Director of

(01:31):
Producer Education andSustainability for the National
Cattleman's Beef Association.
The first part of that jobtitle, it's fairly innocuous,
but the S word, as I call it,seems to heighten a few of our
senses.
In this case though,sustainability is clearly an
excellent mission.
I mean seriously, who doesn'tsupport producer sustainability?

(01:55):
We cover some of Josh'sviewpoints on all these efforts.
Education, sustainability of ourbeef cattlemen, stewardship of
our resources, we talk aboutstockmanship and the beef
quality assurance program andsuccession planning, and a whole
host of topics.
And in true Josh White fashion,he provides links for nearly all

(02:16):
of the programs that wediscussed, and those are
included in this episode's shownotes.
The next rainy day you have, Iwould suggest checking any or
all of these links out.
Most of all, we talk in thisepisode about being curious,
always striving to get better atour craft, and caring enough

(02:38):
about the beef industry to, asJosh Paraphrases from scripture,
"always be prepared to give ananswer." If you like me, enjoy
learning, growing, and betterunderstanding our industry, then
I think you like me, will reallyenjoy this conversation with
Josh White.

josh (03:00):
Beautiful spring.
We've gotten lots of rain in,uh, the two locations.
I track the closest where I livein metro Denver and then in
Georgia, where I still have afew cows.
So lots of moisture in those twolocations, uh, through this
spring and early summer,

Matt (03:15):
and not a bad cattle market to, go along with that.
Holy

josh (03:18):
smokes.
That's the understatement of theday.
Yeah, it's just on fire.
I sold some calves down thereand I, I just run a few head
still on a family operation, butI sold a few back in April when
that's usually the right time tosell those fall born calves.
And man, I can't believe howthey've kept going up, which I'm
not complaining.
I got plenty of money out of'em.

Matt (03:38):
So you should have waited till the quote unquote low in
November.
Well, my

josh (03:41):
dad, my dad turns, uh, 80 this year and he's my herdsman
and so it's really built aroundhis schedule and what he wants
to do.
I just try to make it as easyfor him as I can and, and let me
keep a few cows around therethat aren't too much of a
headache to him.
Yep, that's, that's good.
It's more about that thananything.
Keep him in good rig.

Matt (04:00):
Yep.
That's good for you.
So that is today kind of yourhobby.
Your main gig is your title's.

josh (04:08):
I'm the Senior Executive Director of producer Education
and Sustainability at NationalCattleman's Beef Association.

Matt (04:15):
And so you and I just made the cardinal sin, in my opinion,
of the beef industry.
And the two things thatcattlemen want to learn about
and talk about are what Theweather prices and weather.
Yeah, the weather and themarkets.
That's right.
And the two things that weprobably have the less the least

(04:35):
ability to have effect on andget better at are prices, right.
And weather.
Right.
So you, I think your entirecareer have been in some way,
shape or form trying to helpranchers educate themselves.
Tell us a little bit about yourtime before NCBA, what all you

(04:56):
did.
Sure.
All those different things thatyou've kind of tried to help
share some

josh (05:00):
information.
I don't wanna bore everybody toomuch, but, um, yeah.
Grew up in, uh, in the south,uh, son of a commercial banker.
Uh, my grandparents were muchcloser to ag.
My, one of my grandfathers, mypaternal grandfather had a farm
and was in the farming businesshis whole life.
And so I kinda caught the bugfrom, from the grandparents.

(05:22):
It skipped a generation.
My dad wasn't much on it, but,um, by the time I was 16, I
owned all the cattle on thefamily farm.
Uh, and had a note to my dadbecause he was tired of fooling
with them.
Right.
And said, you're way better atthis than me, so here you go.
Um, but we're, our place ispretty close into Atlanta, so it

(05:42):
was already starting to getswallowed up by Metro Atlanta.
And so didn't have a whole lotof opportunities through four H
or FFA or anything.
I didn't have any of that in thehigh school I went to, but was
able to latch onto some folksthat knew.
A lot more about cattle than Idid in extension and through
various associations.
And then, uh, Sunbelt Ag Expo isthe big farm show in the

(06:05):
Southeast that draws from manystates and many countries.
And that was like the highlightof my year as a pre-teen and
early teen to go down there andjust soak up as much info.
This was pre-internet, so thiswould've been in the eighties,
late eighties and, and, uh, gotexposed more to breeds of cattle
and, and the ag land grantuniversity systems and whatnot

(06:30):
that were in the southeast thathad big displays and recruiters
and whatnot.
And so ended up gettingrecruited to go to Berry
College, which is a privatecollege in North Georgia that is
one of the largest campuses inthe world.
They run a lot of cattle andthey guarantee every student a
job.
And so I was able to go up thereand work on the beef unit,

(06:53):
became a student supervisor veryquickly, lived out at the beef
unit, uh, for most of my time upthere and got an animal science
degree and I was able to learnhow to ai, I was able to drive a
truck and trailer and, takecattle to a pack and plan and,
you know, just really got a lotof experience that I didn't get
just on a cow calf place, uh,that I grew up on.
So that was a great experience.

(07:15):
Really helped expand myhorizons, going all around the
southeast.
They also ran four or fivebreeds of cattle, so I got to
learn the genetics.
I gotta help with all thepaperwork, learn the EPDs and
the genetics of all thosebreeds, which was a lot of fun.
I've always been really inclinedto the genetics side of things.
And, um, actually went back towork in a family business of

(07:37):
real estate and development.
I had uncles and, and aunts andmy dad with his commercial
banking background that all didsomething related to real estate
pretty much at that time, eitherdeveloping subdivisions,
commercial, industrial buildinghouses and all that.
So I was able to go back, workwith several of them in that
business, grow my own cow herd,and then also became vice

(07:59):
president of our local farmbureau at like 24 or something
ridiculously young, was on theState Farm Bureau, uh, young
farmer rancher committee real,real early.
And, um, we raised lim and limbflex cattle at that time.
So I, I actually replacedJonathan Perry on the Georgia
Limousine Association Board ofDirectors when he went up to
Deer Valley.

Matt (08:19):
Cool.

josh (08:20):
And left Dormy Brothers down in Fitzgerald, Georgia for
a little trip down memory lanefor folks in the Southeast that
remember all of that.
And, um, so I've known Jonathanfor a long time and basically I
was got to a point where I wasserving on so many volunteer
capacities with so manydifferent organizations related
to ag and cattle, whether it waslocal, state, or national, that,

(08:43):
uh, it just became apparent thatsome of my skills were
translatable in other directionsand that I should probably be
doing something else.
I felt definitely a sense ofcalling when a job came open at
Georgia Cattleman's Associationfor their executive vice
president role.
Uh, I was in my, thirties at thetime and, um..

(09:03):
The first PowerPoint I everdelivered in my life was the
interview for that position to aboard of directors and one of
the guys around there said, thatwas the best presentation I've
ever seen.
I didn't tell him at the time,that was the first PowerPoint I
had ever done, but, um, youknow, the Lord was, was in it.
So, um, it was a real blessingto transition to that, that, uh,

(09:25):
role.
So I served as executive VP ofthe Georgia Cattleman's
Association and Beef Council forabout five and a half years.
Um.
And then a similar situation.
Uh, forest Roberts was the CEOof NCBA at the time.
And of course, GeorgiaCattlemen's and Beef Council.
We worked a lot with our, as astate affiliate with the

(09:45):
national folks.
I had gotten to meet and, andgrow, grew to, to know a lot of
people at the national office.
And, Dr.
John Patterson, who led theproducer ed team before me had
gone part-time and they werelooking to kind of restructure,
revamp, really wanted to retoolthe department and I'd done a

(10:06):
bit of a rebuild at GeorgiaCattleman.
And so I talked to Forest and hesaid, you need to interview for
this job.
We'd love to have you come out.
And, you know, it was, it wasanother God thing.
It just kind of fit and, um, gotin there and, and Grace Webb,
who's been with NCBA for wellover 20 years was there.

(10:26):
And, uh, JP, Dr.
Patterson was kind of in andout.
He was working remote part-timeand they had just hired another
employee to help with BQA.
'cause Ryan Rupert, who for along time kind of ran the BQA
deal, had left.
And so there were, there was onefull-time person and a part-time
person, and then me and thenChase the court who had just

(10:47):
been hired, um, coming in.
And so it was, it was a lot offun.
That was 11 years ago, roughly,and we got to rebuild that team
and, and kinda try to catch anew, uh, a new hold, so to
speak, with with BQA andCattleman's College and all
those other programs.
So a lot of fun, greatopportunity.

(11:08):
And now there's about 12 of uson my team.
So it's, it's really evolvedover the years.
That's awesome.
And you and

Matt (11:14):
I basically had a complete opposite, start in our
professional careers comingoutta animal science.
And I've only known you since Igot on BIF board however many
years ago that was in Manhattanand worked with you since then.
Some.
But you started on the producerside and quickly into the

(11:35):
volunteer leadership of, ofCattlemen's and farming
organizations, and then moved tothe staff side.
I started on the staff ofPennsylvania Beef Council for a
year, then American Angus for.
What eight and then came back tothe producer side and got
involved just like you, whenyou're fresh meat coming back to
rural America, you're gonna getthrown into every volunteer

(11:55):
position that you're willing totake.
That's right.
Yeah.
It's, I think both of thoseactually go hand in hand.
And the reason you were able todo that PowerPoint and get the
job, the first time you'd everclicked down on the, on the
screen or on the slides, wasbecause all that work that you'd
done in volunteer work.
And I think that, um, probablythe reason that I've gotten

(12:17):
thrown into as many volunteerpositions is because I saw the
staff side first.
Right.
And I, I think those two arebeneficial.
And I think it's probably whyyou're so good at helping folks
learn and find new ways to do abetter job at the farms and
ranches back home.
And, and I think that that'ssomething that.

(12:40):
A lot of times, just like westarted, we do a, we do an
excellent job of asking how muchrain somebody got down the road
or asking what somebody's calvesbrought or weighed at the local
livestock market or stockyardsor sale barn, depending on the
region.
But we do a terrible job.
My opinion as an industrysaying, what have you learned

(13:02):
lately?
Have you figured out anythingthat'll make you better, that
allows you to get more pounds ofcalf weaned to per cow exposed
or whatever the, rubric or the,the measurement that we put on
production and, and cost savingsand things like this.
My, not to editorialize toomuch, but my grandfather,

(13:23):
Francis Perrier once said,probably not once, I think he
said it a lot, but he said, whenI go get a haircut, my barber
has to have a license.
I.
When I go eat at the local cafe,they have to be licensed with
some health department of somekind on a state or even federal

(13:44):
level.
Obviously the veterinarian hasto have their licensure and
everything else, but you canraise cattle or food or crops
without so much as a requirementthat you know, the front end
from the back end.
That's very true.
He used to say, and I, Ijokingly brought this up to
Teagarden and some of them atKLA when I was serving in

(14:05):
leadership there, FrancisPerrier used to say, you ought
to have to be licensed if you'regonna run a set of cows.
Man, you talk about, yeah, somefolks getting nervous and, and
we can't do that.
I don't want that, and I wouldnever lobby for that.
But I think his premise was ifwe're not asking questions and
doing some quote unquotecontinuing education of some

(14:26):
kind.
We're probably not going to getmuch better.
That's right.
You can do it a lot of differentways.
And that's the reason thispodcast started, was to try to
share some information for folkswho frankly, maybe can't, or at
least don't feel comfortablegetting off the place, but they
can sit in a pick up or on ahorse or in a tractor and learn

(14:46):
something from somebody.
And I think you all have done aphenomenal job with that
producer education component andbeef quality assurance.
I mean, your stockmanship andstewardship series and all these
different things.
I'd say 90 some percent of thecattlemen across the nation
don't even realize thoseresources are available, much
less available from the NCBA.

(15:09):
You know, right there.
So many times we, we have alittle bit of a, um, connotation
because of policy arms of NCBAor because of the checkoff side
of, of the Cattleman's BeefBoard and, and the contractor
status that NCBA has with them.
Your part of it from a producered standpoint is kind of like

(15:29):
the Switzerland of NCBA.
Yeah.
Because it's, it's relevant forall of us, regardless if we are
card carrying members orcarrying the policy book in our
back pocket.
I mean, what you all do there isjust awesome.
And the information that youhave, how do folks tap into
that, whether they're a memberor not?

(15:50):
Do they have to be, and, andwhat do you provide there?
I guess just for background?

josh (15:54):
No, that's a great, uh, great open door.
So I guess, yeah, I think yourpoint is so well taken.
Like stay curious and keeplearning.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, if we could all do that,I think we would all be getting
a lot better, I would say toeditorialize myself a little bit
that we have certainly.

(16:14):
Yeah.
Drifted into wanting to be uh,entertained a lot more Yeah.
Than, than seeking out newknowledge and education and,
and, um, you know, we've gottena little lazy as a culture, I
would say, in society, but, uh,there's a ton of opportunity.
We have, many, many free or lowcost options for people to plug

(16:39):
in to get educational content.
And so you mentioned kind of thetwo arms.
Some of what my team works onis, policy funded or sponsored
by a, you know, a sponsor thathelps us fund that.
And then some of what we work onis beef checkoff funded, namely
the beef quality assuranceprogram.
Mm-hmm.
Which you can go online rightnow and get certified for free.

(17:02):
You can do that through a cowcalf module, a feed yard module,
or um, back stocker backgroundor module.
And then you already mentionedcontinuing ed for those that are
certified and in our database,you have access now to a new
continuing education platformfor recertification.
So a huge thing that we'rereally proud of, I don't want to

(17:22):
talk just about that, but, sothat's, that's one huge platform
and opportunity.
We also, of course, have done awebinar series now for about 10
years, and all of those arerecorded and, and posted up on
YouTube.
so you can check out our webinarseries, that's free.
We have the stockmanship andstewardship program that you

(17:44):
mentioned that travels thecountry and, um, we have stops
coming up in.
Well, it may have, it may havealready happened by the time
this airs, but we have one inSouth Dakota, one in Missouri,
and one in Texas this year.
And we just talked to, Imentioned Sunbelt Ag Expo.
It was on my mind because we'vejust been talking to them about
having Kurt Pate come down thereto Moultrie, Georgia in October,

(18:06):
and it looks like that's gonnawork out so good.
We'll be teaming up to offersome BQA content.
Plus Curt Pate, who is arenowned horseman and stockman
and cattle handler.
He'll be doing sessions everyday of Sunbelt for three days
down there and do a little bitdifferent stuff each day.
So that's gonna be a lot of fun.
And those are, uh, have a smallregistration fee to them.

(18:28):
It depends on the location andhow many meals we're feeding you
and that kind of thing.
But, um, we also have a programspeaking of things that people
don't know about or that theycould, could utilize, um.
I would really encourage peopleto check out.
And that's our rancherresilience grant.
Yeah.
Um, going just, just pre COVIDright on the front end of COVID,

(18:51):
uh, Cargill reached out and hadsome money that they wanted to
reinvest in rancher resilienceand producer education.
And so we set up a fund throughour foundation, through a
partnership that Cargill putsmoney in and we manage the
process, um, that, you know, wewill reimburse your hotel cost
and registration fee for a lotof different events.

(19:13):
Pretty much all of the NobleResearch Institute events that
they're doing around thecountry, around grazing and
ranch management.
Uh, the King Ranch events, allof our events like stockmanship
and stewardship, the BIFsymposium that we're at right
now qualifies for it.
Our annual convention, a lot ofthe breed association
conventions, many of the stateconventions.

(19:34):
So check that out at uh,ncba.org.
Go onto that tab that has theproducer resources and you'll
see all of our content.
We've got lots of differentthings going on that I've
already mentioned, but RancherResilience Grant, you can also
just Google that NCBA RancherResilience Grant, and you'll get
to that.
It's a simple application.
You select the, from a menu ofupcoming events and hey, what

(19:59):
better way to, uh, get back atthe packer than have them pay
you to go get some education?
So, exactly.
For those of, of course, rightnow, the, the cattle market's
pretty dang good.
Yeah.
But, uh, but always I joke withpeople, you know, Hey, get
Cargill, pay your hotel bill.
That's, that's pretty cool.

Matt (20:15):
Yeah, no doubt.
And I mean, it's, especially asyou look at where you all have
the convention where BIF has itsconvention, I mean, even
Amarillo, Texas, you know,downtown Amarillo Hotels, you're
not gonna find'em for 87 95 anight.
It, it's, it's pretty pricey tocome to some of these,
especially on a, on a fairlytight budget like most ranchers

(20:36):
have.
That's right.
But when you can tap intosomething like that, ranchers
Resilience grant, um.
Yeah, it, it, it's a differencemaker and, and I think a lot of
folks I've tried to tell folksis they look at the price tag
for NCBA Cattleman's College orfor the hotel where we have NCBA
type events.
they get sticker shock and say,yeah.

(20:57):
My education isn't worth that.
You can see, I mean, just likekids can kind get a scholarship
to make that education moreattainable.
It's a scholarship for ranchersto, to That's right.

josh (21:07):
Further their education.
Yeah.
You have to complete a module,which there's a wide variety of
modules that'll qualify eitheron the US roundtables platform
that's a little sustainabilityoriented.
We have a grazing managementone, or you can go do some BQA
stuff.
So there is a little hoop tojump through.
Then you need to take a pictureto prove you went to the event,
send it to us, and there's alittle survey at the end.

(21:28):
And then we send you a check.
Like for our convention, it wasover$2,000.
Yeah, we reimbursed.
So yeah, we wanna make surepeople are actually attending
the events before we, it is areimbursement.
Sure.
But, uh, if you pull all thetriggers and do your part to get
it back to us, uh.
The check will beat its way toyour door before your credit
card bill will hopefully fromthe, from taking the trip,

(21:48):
that's the goal, or shortlythereafter.
So that's, that's the deal.
And we've still got some moneyin the, in the bucket there for
at least another year or twothat, and we're hoping Cargill
will reinvest.
It's been very successful.
So.
Good.
That's awesome.
That's a cool deal.

Matt (22:02):
And, and I think they see the benefit, not just, you know,
having an opportunity.
Obviously, you know, companiesare looking for donation
opportunities when they need atax write off or whatever else,
but I think they also see thatit pays them to have producers
who can even do a better job,whether it be in genetics or

(22:23):
health or whatever else.
If, if we know how to make moremoney ourselves, we're probably
gonna help them have a healthierproduct.
Higher quality product to marketand then make more money.
I mean, this, this one beefconcept that, uh, that has been
thrown about by the likes of Dr.
Dan Thompson and others, uh, it,it sounds all warm and fuzzy.

(22:45):
Maybe it even sounds threateningto some that still want a
segmented look to the beefindustry in supply chain.
But it's factual.
I mean, gone are the days, in myopinion, where the only way
we're gonna be profitable in oursegment or on our ranch is to
steal a profit from either theguy or gal before us that

(23:06):
mismanaged cattle, or from theguy buying our cattle at the
feed yard or at the packingplant or the retail level.
Um, I, I think today we'reseeing.
Fetal programming and health ofcalves and colostrum at birth
and all these different thingsthat pay huge dividends way on
down the line.

(23:26):
Sure.
They make the rancher money,they make the feed yard money,
make the packer money, everybodywins.

josh (23:31):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, well managedcattle that'll get the job done
or good for everybody and Yeah,and I think we're, you know,
we've tried to push into someother areas past what we've
talked about as kind of the, thecore topics, but around risk
management, you know, try to do,create more entry level risk
management content because,gosh, with LRP available now,

(23:52):
pasture range and forage, Imean, these are real difference
makers for a lot of ranchers Ifthey can figure out how to use
some of these tools.
We've got a big focus now.
We've just started working moreon transition planning and, uh,
we were, we're working withShannon Farrell, who was a
keynote at our convention out ofOklahoma State, uh, to try to
create some real entry level.

(24:15):
You know, how do you have the,what are the right questions to
ask?
How do you start theconversation around succession
planning?
We know we're, we're typicallynot gonna be the deep dive, but
we can at least try to helppeople get started and find the
resources they need to moveforward in some of these more
difficult areas to think about.
I mean, grazing management, Imentioned that we have a very

(24:35):
entry level.
Grazing management plan templatenow built out, and a module that
tracks along with it biosecuritycan get daunting and
overwhelming.
We have kind of an entry levelmodule in the BQA platform
around that and a, basicbiosecurity plan template to get
you started.
We call it kind of the dailyplan, not the full secure beef

(24:57):
supply plan, which is verytechnical, but how do you get
started?
Um, and I think that's where,whether you're a beginning
farmer or rancher or you're agenetics guy and you love
genetics and maybe a littlenutrition and repro, but all the
rest of this stuff you'd rathernot focus on.
You know, that's a big challengefor a lot of operations that may
be family based and have one ortwo people trying to do

(25:19):
everything.
Yep.
We tend to, unless you're justhighly disciplined and
regimented, most people tend todrift to just focus on what they
want to focus on and what theyenjoy and, um, that kind keep
learning.
Stay curious mantra.
Goes also to the things that youmay not have a natural affinity
to.
How do you have theself-discipline to tackle some

(25:41):
of those tougher topics?

Matt (25:42):
Yeah.
And those are the ones, andreally any of these, but like
you said, succession planning,you're not gonna go write that
plan for them.
Even your speakers aren'tnecessarily going to write that
plan for them.
But it starts the conversationeither amongst them and the
subsequent generation or thegeneration ahead of them, or
even in their own mind.

(26:03):
I, right.
I'm guilty of when I stay athome on the ranch for months,
even sometimes years at a time,I get to believe in my own bs.
Yeah.
And thinking that, ah, I canfigure this out.
Mm-hmm.
I don't need, and when I go to ameeting like B-I-F-N-C-B-A or
any of these events that we'retalking about, even the drive

(26:26):
there, especially the driveback, I get to thinking about
things that maybe I didn'treally even hear a speaker talk
about, but it.
Queued something else in my mindthat, hey, I could really do a
better job communicating with myfamily.
Absolutely.
Or our team member, or whateverthe case may be.
It may not have been even talkedabout, but it gets us out of

(26:48):
that shell.
And I think the toughest one,it's, I'm sure there's a quote
that I'll screw up, but thefirst step of the journey is the
hardest part.
That's right.
And I think once you go to oneof these events, I don't care if
it's a state Cattleman'sregional farm tour, whatever the
case may be, that first one getsyou hooked and realized, okay,

(27:08):
yeah, I'm, I may have missedbeing there to put that hay crop
up that week, or I may havemissed something.
Um, but I gained so much more interms of dollars that I can then
make.
Years down the road that it wasworth it.
Yeah.

josh (27:24):
Challenging our own thinking.
Yeah.
Paradigms and, and, and again,pushing into areas that we are
not naturally inclined to.
Um, very, very important in mymind.
I've, you know, I, I read somuch, ag trade media and, and,

(27:45):
uh, produce, you know, weproduce a lot out of NCBA shop
with our communications team.
And, and I enjoy perusing the,the ag podcast and whatnot too,
and have really enjoyedlistening to Temple and, you
know, Don Close and severalother people on your podcast
over, over the last few years.
But I try to make it a point togo listen to business, podcasts

(28:10):
or, you know, more spiritual,content, um, things that are
outside of my day to day andthings that will challenge my
thinking and if possible fromsomeone that I don't have much
in common with.
Yeah.
Because we are definitely,guilty of getting in our own

(28:30):
heads and our own echo chambersand, uh, how, how do we have
some unique thoughts?
There's nothing new under thesun.
Right.
And when you get into your own,into the ag community and then
into the beef cattle community,and we have some great
innovators and some greatthinkers, but if, if we are
going to.

(28:50):
Challenge each other and, andget some new insight.
We need to be trying to borrowsome things from other
industries, other expertises andother, other minds out there.

Matt (29:01):
Yeah.
It's not easy to do.
And you just used the worduncomfortable.
Um, I'm gonna switch stirrupshere just for a bit.
Um, one uncomfortable area thatyou have in your title is the S
word.
Not that S word, butsustainability.
Sure.
And that is one of those I gotreminded the last couple of

(29:25):
weeks because of an Angusassociation, uh, project,
research project that broughtsustainability and methane into
the conversation.
And while that particularresearch project was actually
not on sustainability, it was onforage efficiency, but they
just.
Use methane to measure that and,and try to see if we can find
cows that do more with less outthere on pasture.

(29:47):
But regardless, I would guessthat the sustainability part of
your job description may causeas much heartburn amongst
ranchers as maybe anything elseyou do.
Is that close or is that justwhat I hear in the highways and
byways and back roads of, ofKansas that folks in rural

(30:08):
America, me included, have lotsof questions about when we get
into climate discussions andsustainability because it's
almost like we have to admitthat we may have a problem in
the beef industry.
I don't, I don't believe thatit's a problem the rest of the
world does, in my opinion.
I'm once again leading thewitness here, but my opinion is

(30:30):
the only way that we can trulytell our story about cattle's
impact on climate changesustainability.
Is to gather the data and havethe conversations with the
people who think that we'retrying to kill them with methane
or dust or Sure.
Whatever the things may be.
How do we get past that?
Is that, do you hear or see thesame thing?

(30:52):
And if so, how do we get pastthis fear that if we talk about
sustainability as cowboys, it'ssaying that we agree that we
have a sustainability problem?

josh (31:03):
Well, I think, um, to loosely quote a, a bible verse,
you know, you need to always beprepared to give an answer,
right?
Mm-hmm.
To defend.
I think that's talking aboutfaith, right?
But, uh, and what you believe.
But I think that it kind ofapplies to this.
I mean, if, if we go back to theroots of it, it, you know, it
was that livestocks long shadowreport.

(31:25):
Oh yeah.
You know, pushing, what, 15years ago now, maybe 20.
That really threw the beefindustry and livestock
production under the bus.
And, um, we know that that wasinaccurate.
That's long been debunked, butthe stigma certainly in society,
uh, and maybe more with, withsort of the, the more activist

(31:49):
type mind Sure.
Mindset folks, uh, that reallywanted to do away with cattle
production, maybe even for otherreasons.
Just latched onto I I think so.
So I guess just to kind of backup to my thought process around
this and, and when I was hired,I didn't have that word in my
Sure title.
Uh, it was a producer educationteam, and then I gained the

(32:09):
sustainability over time.
You,

Matt (32:11):
you dreamt

josh (32:11):
all this up because you were bored.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I got asked totake, to take it on and help out
with it.
And I think that if I.
Could kind of go back, and thishas been my mantra the whole
time, is if some of theseentities, whether they're
corporate or NGOs or whatever,quit caring about beef

(32:33):
sustainability mm-hmm.
Is some of the stuff that we'vebeen working on, on our team and
helping guide the industrytoward useful anyway.
Sure.
Even if that word goes away,well, what you just talked
about, more efficient cows onthe range is good for us.

Matt (32:49):
Mm-hmm.
Great.

josh (32:51):
Doing a better job with raising cattle and delivering a
high quality product is alwaysin our best interest.
So let's just make sure thatwe're aligning the, this
narrative with stuff that's goodfor us.
And that's, that's our goalevery day.
And, and my team is just how canwe help each other get better as

(33:12):
producers and how can we, um,generate some value?
And, and, you know, it's beenquoted a million times, One of
our past presidents at NCBAsaid, if you're, if you're not
at the table, you're on themenu.
Right.
JD Alexander from Nebraska.
So I think that's, that was alsoa early concept with NC B's

(33:35):
volunteer rancher feedermembership, is that, you know,
we've gotta be at the table andbe preparing a defense for our
industry.
I would tend to agree with youthat it's mostly been overblown
our contribution to, to globalwarming, for instance, if you
even believe that's a, a thing.
Um, or climate change orwhatnot.

(33:58):
We know that there's a lot ofother causes and whatnot, and
we're, we're probably a tinyplayer in that.
But I think one of the reallycool things is that we can be
part of the solution, and that'sreally where NCBA has evolved to
over the years, is how do we, Imentioned grazing management
earlier.

(34:18):
You've mentioned grazing.
You know, how do we continue to,to tell our story around how
cattle are just, golly, they'rea fascinating, amazing creature
that rumen is just phenomenalfact that they can go out and
eat all kinds of stuff, or evenin a feed yard setting, eat
mm-hmm.
Stuff that would go in alandfill or somewhere and we can

(34:39):
turn it into the amazing highquality beef that we have today
is, is a terrific story to tell.
It is a positive sustainabilitynarrative and so we've, we've
gotta do a better job ofquantifying some of that to help
make the case and of telling,you know, putting more of a
story around it.
But, um.
Personally, I've never feltthreatened around this topic.

(35:02):
Um, I don't, I don't live infear in general in my life.
I'm a very proactive person andvery positive person.
I wake up in the morning readyto tackle the day, right?
And for come from a positivemindset.
I think cattle are amazing and Ithink we're part of the
solution.
And so that's always been my, mymindset around it.
It's really not thatcomplicated.
Do a good job, better job everyday if you can, raising your

(35:23):
cattle, treat'em well, get BQAcertified.
Treat your help.
Right?
Improve your land.
You're, you're sustainable, youknow, and that's most ranchers.

Matt (35:32):
Yeah.
And that's, that is the irony ofthe whole thing.
As we hear folks get up in armsabout even having a discussion,
even quote unquote being at thattable instead of on that menu,
as JD Alexander said, um Ialmost get this feeling, and
I've, I've had people say thisto me even in the last couple

(35:54):
weeks.
If we're talking about it, we'resaying that we believe in it and
we don't believe in it.
I, I can think of all kinds ofdifferent metaphors of things
that I address with neighbors,whether they're urban, suburban,
rural, whatever the case may be.
That discussion points come upand I give my 2 cents.

(36:15):
I give my perspective on anissue that I really don't think
is as that person.
I'm talking with a thing, andyet if I walked away from that
discussion, politics, religion,economics, whatever the case may
be, if I walked away from that,what's the first thing they

(36:37):
would think?
Ooh, he's got something to hide.
Sure.
If he's saying he doesn't bel,he doesn't even want to talk
about this.
Obviously he is breaking thelaw, trying to kill me, try, you
know, whatever the case may be,trying to take me over.
And yet when I have thediscussion.
I may not change your mind, butthey shrug their shoulders and
say, okay, now I get it.

(36:59):
Yeah.
I see why, I mean, not agreewith you, but I see why you feel
like you, you have, and I, Ithink you've gotten to see this,
you know, whether it be with theround table or all of these
sustainability discussions kindof come from that early point
when there was, there was noranch, there were no ranchers in
the room talking aboutsustainability early on.

(37:21):
And now through you all yourall's work and and so many
others, now we have the seat atthe table.
And I would guess, well, let meask you, do those retailers, do
those non-governmentorganizations that I still say
are government organizations,they just don't, aren't written
into the DC um, uh, laws, but dothose folks.

(37:46):
Have a better understanding ofwhat farmers and ranchers do
every day and are they lesslikely to put on carbon taxes
and all these things that weworry about because of some of
those discussions becausethey've shaken hands with a guy
or a gal in a cowboy hat thathas a little manure on their
boots.

josh (38:04):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
We know, uh, that things havegreatly improved and really, you
know, trying to.
Do a better job of connectingthings like the Environmental
Stewardship Award program.

Matt (38:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Which is awesome.

josh (38:18):
Into more of the narrative around these things has just
been a simple step that tryingto help connect the dots because
I mean, ESOP's been around forover 30 years.
We've been talking aboutenvironmental stewardship in the
beef industry and awardingranchers around the country for
their efforts for decades, forover 30 years.
Yeah.

(38:39):
I mean, this is not a new topicfor us.
And so BQA is another example.
So when, when we do, uh, onbehalf of the beef checkoff, you
know, the folks on our consumermarket research team ask
consumers what they care about,even related to sustainability,
it always comes back to animalwelfare first.
Yeah.
The US consumer is not verysophisticated when it comes to

(39:02):
connecting cattle productionand, you know, climate change.
So that's, you know.
Very difficult to get a consumerto say, without aiding them,
without telling them to beconcerned about it, to start
with.
But they, they have pets.
They've seen documentariesaround some sort of agriculture
that's, you know, perceived asfactory farming or wrong or

(39:25):
whatever, uh, animal abusenarratives and whatnot.
So top of mind that trumpseverything else.
But then when we tell them, Hey,we've got a beef quality
assurance program that's beenaround pushing 40 years now.
Mm-hmm.
And we've got over 200,000farmers and ranchers that are
actively certified today.

(39:45):
Meaning they went through thatprogram in the last three years.
And then when we add dairy, it'sanother couple hundred thousand.
Then we add the youth, it'sanother couple hundred thousand.
So we've got pushing 600,000individual certifications in the
last three years, or theequivalent with dairy Man that.
They're like, oh, you guysreally do care.

(40:06):
You're doing something about it.
So yeah, we've, we have powerfulnarratives to share on this
topic, uh, of doing the rightthing.
I think we've got to continueto, engage.
Like I said, stay curious, keeplearning.
Um, for BQA, my mantra is getcertified.

(40:26):
And stay certified.
Yeah.
I mean, people again have wantedto complain about, well, I did
that 20 years ago.
I got certified.
Yeah.
I know how to get to graduatehigh school four times.
Why do I have to keep goingthrough this?
Well, you don't.
You don't have to do the samecontent anymore,

Matt (40:41):
right?

josh (40:41):
cause it's all new.
If you hadn't been on therelately, you have no idea what
you're missing.
So yeah, it, it's not check itout.
Just the

Matt (40:46):
realize or demonstration of where to a shot.

josh (40:49):
Go to an in-person training or, or come online.
You'll have some, some newcontent.
We just redid the BQA manuallast year.
It's a whole new animal.
We did the module, the basicmodule's four years ago.
But now we've got the CEplatform with I think five or
six different courses availableand you only have to do two or
three of them to getrecertified.

(41:09):
So, um, we've got facilitydesign, we've got biosecurity.
You can go ahead and work onyour biosecurity plan and get CE
credit for it.
Our BQA transportationcertification qualifies as CE
continuing ed for BQA.
So there's lots of opportunity.
Uh, so get certified and staycertified.
'cause that is probably the mostpowerful tool we have to

(41:32):
legitimately tell our storytoday about how we raise cattle.

Matt (41:37):
Yeah.

josh (41:37):
It is the walk the walk so that you know the people that
are trying to help us tell ourstory, right?
Can talk the talk.
We've gotta be doing the rightthing.
And bq A is how we prove it.

Matt (41:50):
And the

josh (41:50):
fact

Matt (41:51):
that you've got all of those different options, you
know, some of which don't evenrequire you to leave the ranch
are pretty powerful.
Now I'm, I'm a little moreextroverted and a little more
social and I do a better joblearning when I've got somebody
else talking to me or with me.
And, uh, so, you know, I I, Iprobably prefer doing something

(42:11):
in person and I'm sure youprobably prefer folks learning
in person we than online.
Yeah.
But there is that option.
And the nice thing about doingit in person, you hear or see
something from that presenterand then you have a 15, 20
minute break or you have lunchand you sit down next to
somebody you don't know from adifferent part of the world and
you get to talking and you go,really, that's how you work

(42:34):
calves or?
That's the program that you haveworked out with your vet.
I need to have that conversationwith my vet.
And guess what, lo and behold,you see your pull rate reduced.
You see your, you know, livecattle, uh, weaning rate rates
increase.
I mean, you make some moneyimprove.
I mean, it's just an investment.

josh (42:54):
Improve, improve your quality of life, you know, I
mean Exactly.
Yeah.
You make it easier.
I love every time I get to bearound Ron Gill, Kurt Pay.
Mm-hmm.
Deanan Fish.
Oh, yeah.
Uh, Todd or any of these guysthat are just so good, I learn
something.
But one of my favorite thingsthat, uh, you know, that, that
Ron talks about is familyrelations.

(43:16):
You know, you can, you canreally improve your quality of
life and your family relationsif you'll pay a little bit of
attention to facility design andcattle handling and, yeah, it's
probably the source of moreridiculous, uh, oh my gosh.
Communications fights, yeah.
Arguments or whatever.
People storming off mad than,than anything else.

(43:38):
And so, well, you

Matt (43:39):
can, in my opinion, and to echo, and I think I heard Kurt p
it may have been Ron say thisone time, and I lived it.
Um, and I heard about it evenworse, when my dad was a kid.
But our family, I don't wannasay dreaded, but you knew that
there was going to be some largestressor.

(44:00):
Every time we had a big CalWork,something was gonna go wrong and
you were kind of nervous aboutit leading up to it.
And the closer you got, the morenervous you got.
And that made the horses and thecattle and everybody else
nervous when you can put intoplace the things, simple things
that those guys teach in termsof cattle handling and facility

(44:20):
design and all these things.
Now everybody on the place can'twait.
To go work.
Cattle can't wait to get to dothose things.
And they happen without a hitchusually.
Um, and when there is a hitch,there's not already this
stressor leading up to it.
Right.
And so that's one of the manythings that I remember Ron Gill
saying, if, if you're dreadingworking cattle, something's

(44:44):
wrong.

josh (44:44):
You're doing it wrong.
Exactly.
Something, something's wrong.
I think, uh, one of the smartestthing we did on our little
outfit is just start, well, Imean, good grazing, rotational
grazing, getting those cattle tomove and being able to lead them
where you want'em and stuffbecause they want to go where
you're going'cause it's freshgrass.
That helps a lot.
Um, that, that does go hand inhand with good cattle handling,

(45:08):
if you can.
You get a little bit oftraining, but uh, then just kind
of running the cattle throughthe, through the facility
sometime when you're not workingthem.
Mm-hmm.
Especially your heifers asyou're developing them.
If you develop your own heifers,man, that makes a world of
difference.
Just kinda getting them used tothe facility instead of, they
only go through it every now andagain, and when they do, it's

(45:28):
under that high stress typeenvironment.
Uh, wow.
Makes a huge difference.
And I, we really started lookingat that because we were AI and a
lot of cattle and some work thatCliff Lamb had done when he was
at Marianna, Florida.
And, and, uh, he may have donesome of that with Funston outta
UNL, but you know, they startedrunning their, uh, heifers or

(45:50):
walking them probably is abetter way to say it, through
the facility a time or twobefore they AIed.
And they compared that to acontrol that they had and their
conception rates werephenomenally better.
Wow.
Uh, with the cattle that theyhad acclimated to that system.
So.
Yeah, pretty cool stuff.
And I mean, AI conception rate'spretty important and you invest

(46:13):
a lot of money in that deal.
If you can just handle'em alittle bit and get improvements,
that's worth a lot.

Matt (46:18):
Yeah.
First time I heard somebody saythat, I'm like, I don't have
time to do that.
That's one more time to theshoot.
And then when you do that andrealize that over the next two
or three times through theshoot, you save a third, maybe
half the amount of time, guesswhat?
You spent two, three hours anddidn't quote unquote do anything

(46:39):
and then you saved six years.
The lifetime of that cow, or 10hours.

josh (46:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Really.
Exactly.
I mean, yeah, she works better.
Yeah.
And no doubt about it.
I think, you know, maybe 5%better conception rate, let's
just say that.
Uh, yeah.
I mean, so that'll, I don'tremember the exact data, but it
was, it was significant,statistically significant.
So it probably had to be atleast 5%.
Yeah.
And on today's market, that's apile

Matt (47:03):
of month.
It adds up regardless of whenyou're selling them, it adds up.
So the tie there that you madeback 10 minutes ago with
consumers looking at the wordsustainability and going to
welfare.
The first time I saw that, I'mlike, what are you talking
about?
I, I look at sustainability as afive and six generation ranch

(47:23):
that sustained itself, which hasa huge financial component, a
pretty significant environmentalcomponent.
'cause if you don't have thesoil, if you don't have the
grass, if you don't have thecows, you don't have anything.
There are all these differentthings.
But when I started hearing aboutanimal welfare being part of the
sustainability discussion, I'mlike, that's crazy talk.

(47:45):
And yet time and time again,that's the leading part from a
consumer standpoint.
They want the cattle to behandled right.
And, and again, that's where weget to frame, I think I.
What handling those cattle,right, is they, that consumer
may think they know how theyought to be handled, but they

(48:05):
quickly admit that they don'tknow.
They may know something abouttheir dog or cat at home, but
when it comes time to talkingabout a 12, 13, 1800 pound
animal, um, yeah, we get to havea huge impact on that.
But that was surprising to methat that was even part of it.
I know there, with the roundtable, you all went, spent a lot

(48:27):
of time just defining whatsustainability is for beef
producers.
Do you remember how that wentand what that is today?
'cause I think that bearsrepeating because that's, that's
a big part of it.
When we start throwing this bigs word around, we have to know
what it is a, that beefproducers feel that
sustainability is.

(48:47):
And then of course, like yousaid, what consumers think it
is.

josh (48:51):
Yeah, I think it's important when you, we kinda
shift gears and talk a littleabout the US Roundtable for
Sustainable Beef.
When you say roundtable yeah.
I think that's what you'retalking about, right?
Correct.
Yeah.
Our team's engaged in that.
I actually co-chaired theoutreach working group for quite
a while, which helped build outsome of those modules that might
be good to interact with forfolks that are curious about it.

(49:11):
But number one, that'smulti-stakeholder.
So we have all of the NGOs, thecorporate types, you know, beef
processors, retail food service,and feed yards and cow calf, you
know, seed stock types there.
So it's full supply chain.
So it's definitely a differentconversation there.

(49:33):
Um, because the corporate, youknow, reporting and corporate
sustainability reports and allthese things that didn't even
used to exist exist.
And so, you know that, thatgroup.
Decided that working on, um,animal welfare, health and
welfare, um, worker safety andsort of their quality of life,

(49:56):
the land management air andgreenhouse gas stuff, you know,
all of those were, uh, and thenefficiency or profitability,
they, they call it efficiencyand yield because none of the
corporates can actually talkabout profitability because it
becomes a, a problem for themwith corporate governance and,
and, uh, whatnot, legal issues.

(50:18):
So farmers and ranchers can talkmore profitability than the
corporate types.
But yeah, those are the keyareas.
I mean, I mentioned it beforefor ranchers, I think taking
great care of the cattle, theland and the people, that's
really the easiest way todescribe it.
because again, it's a differentconversation when you get
corporate.
so yeah, I mean, it's, it is abig topic, but I.

(50:38):
I think one of the best thingsabout the US Roundtable is that
it's multi-stakeholder and thateverybody that's a member and
that's engaged from every sectorhas a stake in it, and they have
to come up with ways thatthey're going to do something
about it.
Um, which means it's not justpeople telling each other what
to do.
Each sector including cow calfor feed yard kind of comes up

(51:03):
with their own goals, targets,definitions, what'll move the
needle.
Um, so it's been good.
Now each can criticize the otherand tell'em they need to be
doing more or less sure orwhatever, but it's always been
lead, um, by sector.
I mean one of the latest,coolest things that's come out
of all that is a, a researchroadmap that, that they've been

(51:26):
working on.
And I think that was reallyneeded to help align corporate
dollars and any governmentdollars or, you know.
Foundation money, NGO money onthings that'll move the needle
and be helpful, uh, aroundgrazing or feed yard management
or how we actually calculatethese things.

(51:47):
I mean, there's still a lot ofnoise in the science of methane
calculation when it comes toagriculture, so, um, certainly
not a climate scientist.
Um, so I'm, and I'm thankful forthat.
Yeah.
But, uh, but there's still a lotof noise around that.
To your point earlier, is iteven an issue?
What, how big is it?
Well, it depends on how youcalculate it and how you look at

(52:08):
it.
So those are all very importantconversations to have.
And then I think, again, forcowboys and seed stock guys, or
anybody in the cattle business,it's.
It's just good stewardship andgetting better each day.
Back to, I pulled that slide upwhile you were talking a minute
ago, so I didn't misquote this.
But back to that animal welfareand sustainability connection.

(52:30):
So our data from 2024 when weprobed on beef and
sustainability, we asked, um,thousands of consumers, which of
the following are the mostimportant to address when it
comes to beef andsustainability?
So that's the question.

Matt (52:45):
Okay.

josh (52:46):
And we gave them a laundry list of about 10 things.
Number one on the list at 55%,consumers report animal welfare
as the key topic related to beefand sustainability.
The next highest that relates tocattle production is land use at
28%.

(53:07):
Wow.
Interesting.
So welfare almost doubled it.
Yeah..
Beef affordability is in there.
'cause that interests consumers.
Right?
That's especially in between thetwo.
They usually don't admit it at46%.
So that was really high.
But land 28% water use 27%.
And then climate change in fifthat 26%.

(53:28):
So again, animal welfare trumpsthe rest big time.
And so again, you can dosomething about it.
Get certified.
Stay certified.
That's, that's the best thingyou can do from a practical
standpoint today.
And how we tell our story onbeef sustainability.
Yeah.

Matt (53:44):
And you know, it's, it's incredibly interesting to me
that we, we, we've gotten onthis whole sustainability
discussion.
In my opinion, we got the cartahead of the horse and the
consumer, the world.
This discussion of globalwarming, acid rain, now, climate
change, you know, all throughthe history there've been these

(54:05):
fears and these fear mongers,and they've shaped the narrative
way before ranchers even startedtalking about it.
But if we stepped back and threwall the buzzwords out, methane,
climate change, sustainability,green, you know, all these
different things, and just said,are you as a rancher focused on

(54:31):
taking care of your family andyour crew and your cattle and
your grass, and your soil andyour wildlife?
I can't think of one singlefarmer rancher in the United
States who wouldn't say, yeah,why wouldn't I be?
If I don't do that, my, my goalevery day, and I guess there

(54:56):
might be somebody out there thatsays, I just wanna rape and
pillage the environment and getall that I can and never have an
opportunity for my son ordaughter if they want to, to
come and take this ranch over.
Maybe there's somebody outthere, the Ebenezer

josh (55:09):
screwed, just Yeah.
Farming and ranching.
I've never

Matt (55:11):
met him.
I honestly, I mean, I don't dothings the same way that all my
neighbors do.
I'm, they may question me, I mayquestion them, but I've never
met anybody who didn't have intheir goal somewhere deep inside
of making sure that this placecould carry on after I'm gone.
That's sustainability and everysingle one of us want that.

(55:34):
Yeah.
And yet the way sustainabilitygot framed and handed to us
years ago makes us kind ofdefensive, very defensive, and,
and it's, it's ironic to me, Ican't think of an industry, and
I've said this before, I can'tthink of one industry that is,
has proven itself moresustainability than production,

(55:56):
agriculture.
How many other businesses?
You know, there may be a fewrestaurants, there may be a few
heating and cooling and tireshops.
There may be a few smallbusinesses that say, yeah, I'm
a, I'm the third generation toown this place, but not very
many.
And you go to farms and ranchesacross this nation and that's

(56:17):
the first thing they say.
I'm a third generation, I'm afifth generation.
I'm a seventh generationcattleman.
Right.
That's what drives us.
And you don't get to be that ifyou're not taking care of the
land and your people and theresources.
Yeah.
Very true.
We've got as good of asustainability message as
anybody around.

(56:37):
It's just that we're scared todeath to talk about it.

josh (56:41):
Yeah, and I think, so just a couple of more thoughts around
this, this area with consumers,number one, you know, how many
of our audience really wants tounderstand how a, uh, computer
is programmed?
Yeah, no, and I mean, let's tellour story about compu, you know,
computer programmers of the worworld tell your story.
So let's, let's remember thatYeah.

(57:04):
Consumers, quote unquote need tounderstand, well, you know, some
of'em just want to buy good beefand really don't care how it
gets to'em.
So I think sometimes we, again,in our own echo chamber, we
oversell it to ourselves abouthow we need to get out there and
tell our story.
I went ahead and pulled up thenumbers For another one that we
ask all the time on our consumerbeef tracker for the beef

(57:26):
checkoff.
Um, what are, you know, do youhave concerns about how cattle
are raised for food?
66% of consumers in 2024 saidthey don't have a concern or
they're not sure if they have aconcern.
So two thirds of people that areeating beef don't have a concern
Yeah.
That they can elucidate.

(57:47):
And so I just think we need toremember that too.
I mean, beef demand is throughthe freaking roof.
Mm-hmm.
And two thirds of consumersdon't have a concern about how
cattle are raised.
So that's the majority.
Right.
When we get into concerns,again, it's animal welfare,
it's, it's how we take care ofthe cattle on the cattle health
side, primarily withantibiotics, hormones, vaccines,

(58:08):
food safety, that kind of thing.
And all of that ties back totheir own health.
Yeah.
So I think whenever we'retalking about these issues, we
need to say what.
Is in it for the consumer.
And that's another good plug forBQA because what's the whole
focus of that beef quality?
Well, what are they consuming?
The beef.
Yeah.

(58:29):
So when we say we take reallygreat care of our cattle and it
yields a high quality, safeproduct that you can enjoy,
bingo.
Yep.
That's what consumers want tohear.
You're doing the right thing onyour place, great.
But what are you doing todeliver me a high quality
product while taking good careof the cattle in the land?
So I think that's important too,to, to remember to connect the

(58:50):
two when we're thinking abouthow we might want to talk to
consumers.
I mean, a lot of consumers saythey know how cattle are raised.
They, they really don't.
Yeah.
We have to remember that mostconsumers are in urban,
suburban.
Settings.
And most of them are 3, 4, 5, 6generations removed from farming
and ranching now, uh, especiallythe younger ones.
And so, we go really complicatedreally fast too.

(59:14):
Like, we want to jump toantibiotics and hormones.
Yeah.
Well, heck, they don't even knowwhat that means.
Most consumers, they, they don'teven understand what a cow calf
operation is.
They think a lot of them arethinking they're stuck in a feed
yard from the time they're born.
Sure.
You know, they don't understandthe production system.
So start simple and, um, justdescribe the care that you have

(59:36):
for the animals and how, how itworks if they're curious.
But most, yeah.
We have a lot of misconceptions.
Just like they do.
Yeah.
About, about that consumeraudience.

Matt (59:46):
I'm as guilty as anybody.
'cause when we first startedinto this whole.
You know, telling our story, 15,20 years ago, Amy and I were, we
were studying the facts.
Every time we went and did abeef demo or talked to
consumers, we wanted to be ableto tell'em exactly how many
grams of zinc or iron or proteinor whatever else.
And finally, this PR person,when we were on one back east,

(01:00:08):
she said, look, nobody reallywants to be educated about this.
They just wanna know that yougive a dang, they wanna put a
face with the steak and somebodythat acts and makes them feel
confident of what, that you'renot trying to kill'em, that
you're trying to do this and doit better every day.

(01:00:30):
And, and, and that's all itcomes down to.
They want to know that you careand that you're trying to get
better.
And generally speaking.
That's enough

josh (01:00:40):
and that you care about the end product and their
experience.
Sure.
Yeah.
And I, I think that's, that'swhat they're after.
That's some of the secret sauceof the Angus deal is that you
guys connected the end productto what you were trying to do on
the genetic side really earlywith CAB.
Right.
So it, it became a productfocused breed in product focus.
So you, you had a leg up, to alot of other, you know, just

(01:01:03):
almost ingrained in the mindsetof raising cattle because of CAB
has helped you a lot, I think,in your mindset, but Yeah, I
think more effective would'vebeen to say, you know, I get up
in the morning, get on a horseor on a side by side and go
check water and look at thecattle every day.
That would've meant more to themmm-hmm.
Than the zinc, iron and proteinmessage.
Yeah.
Because they, yeah.
They want to hear about how youare investing in your operation

(01:01:27):
and then tell'em, you know, Icare about the cattle because I
want you to have a high qualityeating experience.
Um, that's the secret sauce.
Yeah.
Well, I, I think.

Matt (01:01:36):
Kind of to tie a bow on this, I think whether we're
talking with consumers orwhether you're helping put on,
you know, stockmanship andstewardship or BQA or whatever
educational events within thebeef community, I, I looked up,
and of course there's lots ofdifferent versions of this, but
your paraphrase was, you need tobe prepared to give an answer

(01:01:59):
from a Bible verse.
Here's what it says, firstPeter, chapter three, verse 15
to 17.
Always be ready to answereveryone who asks you to explain
about the hope you have, butanswer in a gentle way and with
respect, keep a clear conscienceso that those who speak evil of
your good life in Christ will bemade ashamed.

(01:02:22):
I mean, there's nothing everwrong with, he nailed it, but
that's, yeah,

josh (01:02:27):
there's no, nothing ever wrong with doing the right thing
and then telling the truth aboutit.

Matt (01:02:30):
Yeah, exactly.
Whether we're talking with theneighbor.
Or on Facebook or with theconsumer or whomever.
I mean, I think that plays welljust like these programs that
you and through NCBA involvementand everything else are trying
to bring to us.
So yeah, it, it can be aphenomenal story, but we have to

(01:02:53):
be prepared to give that answerand explain about the hope we
have.

josh (01:02:58):
That's right.

Matt (01:02:59):
All right, Josh, thank you a bunch.
Uh, looking forward to a goodmeeting this week.
And, I'll make sure and put inthe notes some of your contact
information, maybe a websitethat we'll get them to all these
different educationalopportunities that you work
with.
And, um, yeah, hopefully we cancontinue through all avenues to
continue to tell that story andeducate ourselves so we're ready

(01:03:21):
to give that answer.

josh (01:03:22):
Yeah, well.
Appreciate being on and lookforward to meeting some of your
listeners out at Cattle Con inNashville next spring or at one
of these stockmanship andstewardship events.
So it'd be great.
Yeah, always a pleasure.

Matt (01:03:35):
Alright, thanks so bunch Josh.
Good to see you.
Thanks for tuning in toPractically Ranching, brought to
you by Dalebanks Angus.
If you like this show, share itwith someone else.
Give us a five star review and acomment so we can keep cranking
'em out.
We'll be offering a nice set offall calving registered
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So call, text or email me forinformation on these cows.

(01:03:59):
Have a great summer.
Be sure to get our annual bullsale on your calendar.
November 22nd, 2025.
God bless you all, and we'lltalk again soon.