January 8, 2025 • 30 mins
Dr. Jackie Meyer discusses her challenges with chronic fatigue and how they served as a turning point, inspiring her to redefine her career. Through her story, she highlights the importance of embracing leadership and prioritizing work-life balance to achieve personal fulfillment and professional success.
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KC Brothers (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Canopy Practice
Success.
I am here, Kasey Brothers, yourhost, with Dr.
Jackie Meyer.
Jackie, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you, Kasey.
It's good to have you here.
Give us a little background onyou, because we've got some
really fun things to talk abouttoday.
Jackie Meyer (00:25):
Yeah, so much to talk about.
Um, well, I am a CPA turneddoctor, not that kind of doctor.
I recently received a doctoratein leadership, uh, wrote a book
called the balance sheet of lifeformula.
And had my own CPA firm for 12years that I sold a couple years
ago and, um, really kind oftransformed it from all the
(00:49):
traditional ways to modern bestpractices and, and really like
amp the value of it.
And so, yeah, there's a lotthere, but we can kind of deep
dive into each of those aspectsas we go.
KC Brothers (01:01):
Okay, well, I mean, you've written a book on the,
this topic of balance sheet oflife, um, which I take is your
vernacular for work lifebalance, harmonies, you know,
whatever you want to call it.
Yeah.
Um, which accountants?
Mm.
Mm.
Struggle with.
(01:22):
But I don't know why.
I know it's been a topic, like,it's interesting to me, like, I
always kind of want to dive backand think, like, okay, where did
this start?
Who knows, right?
Who cares?
Almost at some point.
But most accountants reallystruggle with this.
Jackie Meyer (01:39):
Yeah, I think it's kind of naturally ingrained in
us, um, with our moreintroverted personalities, very
numbers oriented, uh, but alsoreally good.
We tend to be good people too.
And we want to help people inour own like quirky way.
And so that somehow tends totranslate into this workaholism
(02:01):
that really, you know, getspeople over there in over their
heads.
KC Brothers (02:06):
Yeah.
And that, that's fair that thatcould be a really good thing.
obvious root cause of just thisdesire to help.
Um, so tell us a little bitabout your situation, what you'd
gotten into.
Jackie Meyer (02:18):
Sure.
Um, so I started thinking Iwould be in finance, and then I
worked in college full time.
Um, I started working reallyyoung, when I was 15 actually.
But, um, I started working for afinancial planner slash CPA firm
in Fort Worth, Texas.
I live in South Lake, Texas now,which is close to DFW airport.
(02:42):
And he exposed me to taxpreparation, which for most
people is like bleh.
I loved it.
Like I love the idea.
Not growing up with a whole lotof money.
I had a single teacher, mom.
Um, I love the idea of usingyour brain and knowledge to like
magically and legally findpeople money.
(03:04):
And
so I fell in love with tax planning.
And I kind of like, you know,went got the back way into
Deloitte got into their high networth division.
Um, and then went to a smallerfirm here in DFW, kind of
learned the ropes of running apractice.
And I started my own firm in2010.
KC Brothers (03:26):
And I mean, the big four have their own issues with
work life balance as well.
Oh yeah.
How did that transition?
Like, were you instantly workingas many hours as you'd been
working at Deloitte?
Like, or, or I'm sure you hadto, you know, there's this, um,
anxiety that comes with startingin business and you've got to
(03:48):
keep the lights on.
You've got to bring clients in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What happened?
Jackie Meyer (03:53):
Well, so that's a funny story in itself.
So first of all, Deloitte waslike, taught me everything that
I didn't want out of my career.
Uh, it's great on your resume.
I got many great clients thatsaid, Oh, you worked at
Deloitte.
You must be amazing.
But you have this huge buildupof like all, how amazing it is
(04:16):
to work for the big four.
And then.
You're in this like competitionmode with all the other staff
members as to who can stay thelatest, who can show up the
earliest, who's the smartest.
It was just like very toxicenvironment in my particular
niche.
Um, so I barely made it to liketwo years there before leaving.
(04:39):
Um, as that transferred intostarting my own firm.
I would say I easily was workingovertime.
Um, the firm I had worked atprior to starting my own
actually let me go.
And so I was very, very upset atthe time.
(05:00):
Um, I pushed a lot ofboundaries.
I really wanted to grow taxplanning and grow into Southlake
and Staff weren't getting araise.
And, you know, it was like allthis like argumentative stuff
that I didn't realize at thetime is really just me being an
entrepreneur, but I didn't knowI was an entrepreneur at heart.
Right.
Like I wanted to run the show
(05:22):
and so,
you know, they wanted me to sign a letter
stating that I was quitting.
And I was like, no, like I'llsign a letter stating that
you're letting me go.
And.
I thought it was like the worstthing to ever happen to me and
felt so low, but looking back,it was the best thing to ever
happen to me because it forcedme to start my own firm and it
(05:44):
forced me down this path that Imaybe wouldn't have chosen for
myself.
But I mean, I had 80K of studentloan debt that I paid off in
year one of that part time onthe side CPA firm, uh, as I was
growing.
And I just started, it juststarted multiplying.
I mean, the money that you canmake doing your own business
(06:04):
service based business.
Is so much more than working forsomeone else, but yeah, I got
into the, you know, workingnights and weekends trap and my
husband has always been sosupportive of that, but things
started to crumble a bit when I,we, we started to have kids, you
know?
KC Brothers (06:21):
Yeah.
And I mean, they, that reallykind of puts things in
perspective.
Anyway, so you started to havekids, um, but you were still, I
mean, it's your firm and there'sa lot going on and there's this
ownership, this emotionalattachment.
It's almost like its own baby.
(06:43):
Yeah.
Right.
Um, but you ended up selling thefirm.
So tell us what happenedbetween, you know, this, um,
workaholic, uh, portion ofstarting your own firm, having
kids and then getting in aposition to be sold.
Yeah.
So,
Jackie Meyer (07:03):
um, I didn't grow up in the kind of safest
emotional environment.
My mom had, has severe anxietyand, um, she would be worried
about the weather or, you know,like someone coming after us or
just these really irrationalfears all the time.
And so it was kind of, you know,unstable environment growing up.
(07:25):
Um, I.
What I believe now is that Iprobably had major depressive
disorders since I was a child,but being a high performer, I
just kind of like went, I'mgoing to just work through this,
work through this, work throughthis.
And that all kind of crumbledaround me.
Once I had my daughter, the endof 2013, I planned both my kids,
by the way, to have them inDecember.
(07:49):
Yeah.
Around tax season.
Yeah.
Um, you know, it just seems sopractical, right?
Yeah.
In
KC Brothers (07:57):
fact, to that point, I've seen LinkedIn posts.
Yeah.
Um, talking about this and howbackwards that is, but it's
something that like, it'sreality and it's such a bummer
that it is.
For
Jackie Meyer (08:10):
sure.
Yeah, it is.
It is, but you know, teach theirown, it all seemed to work out
in its own way.
But I mean, today is my son'seighth birthday.
The end of this month is mydaughter's 11th birthday.
So yeah, we've got a lot ofcelebrations right now.
Um, but yeah, so I had mydaughter and I was still trying
(08:32):
to be the perfect, like type A.
know it all firm owner and thena mom and the concept of being
this baby's like only source ofUh, you know food and water and
energy and all those things itjust like Really like put life
into a totally differentperspective.
(08:53):
And so What I think now at thetime I started feeling really
sick like muscle soreness, um,extreme fatigue.
I was so brain fogged that myhusband would be like, you are
talking so slow.
Like what is going on with you?
And I thought, I'm like, do Ihave a brain tumor?
(09:15):
I went to like all these doctorslooking back, honestly, I think
it was postpartum depression.
And, um, I just didn't evenrecognize it.
It's so hard to recognize thosethings in yourself.
And so I would encourage anyonewatching or listening if.
If, um, you know, if youidentify with that at all, you
know, go to a doctor, maybe goto a counselor because after
(09:37):
seeing a ton of regular doctors,a counselor is who helped me
sort through it the most,because I was focusing so much
on how bad I felt that I wasn'table to like, knock myself out
of that and be like, okay.
What can I do?
What medication can I take?
How can I get out of this sothat I can be the best mom and
business owner that I can be?
And so I was working through alot of problems there, ended up
(10:00):
getting diagnosed with chronicfatigue.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith it, but it's essentially
like, we don't know what's wrongwith you, but.
You sleep twice as much aseveryone else and your body's in
pain.
So it must be chronic fatigue.
Um, and I was lucky because Istarted surrounding myself with
the greatest mentors and coachesthat really like helped keep me
(10:23):
on track and, you know, keep theeye on the prize of what was
really important with my familyand whatnot.
And my husband was always sosupportive as well.
Um, and so I thought I Gettingthings back to normal.
And then of course I getpregnant with my second child,
Gabriel in 2016.
And I like almost have this likeimmense panic attack of like,
(10:46):
whoa, I, I got flooded with allthe bad, like feelings and vibes
and things that I had donewrong, so to speak in 2014 with
Alex.
And I didn't want to do thatagain.
So I went to a business coach ofmine, Chuck Bauer, um, who was a
dear friend of mine.
And I'm like, I'm pregnant withmy second kid.
(11:07):
I cannot repeat this again.
Like, please help me get out ofthis.
And he asked me one question.
He said, What clients do youlike working with?
And why,
KC Brothers (11:17):
and in my, yeah, exactly.
Jackie Meyer (11:20):
And in my mind, I heard what clients do you love
working with?
And why?
Cause I love the word love, buthe would never say love in
business.
That's something we joke about.
Uh, and I knew like, I lovedworking with high net wealth
executives in my local area thatwere super sharp.
They had come out of thecorporate world, started their
(11:40):
own entrepreneurial journey.
And I just loved helping themfind tax saving strategies, you
know, contribute back to theirlegacies, contribute to charity
and be able to rub elbows withthese amazing people.
And so he's like, let's developpackages and pricing around
that.
(12:01):
So we did, I ended up creatingmy own pricing method called the
ROI method of value pricing.
And it's literally just acalculator calculator.
That takes the tax savings youcan find for somebody and then
applies these different factorsto calculate a price.
So complexity of engagement,urgency, risk involved, and then
(12:22):
other benefits like intangiblebenefits that you do for the
client.
Wow.
Yeah.
And so I start quoting myclients one by one to convert
them over.
I'm three to five times in mypractice revenue.
I'm equally decreasing my timeto get down to one of my
favorite books in the world, thefour hour work week by Tim
(12:42):
Ferriss.
Right.
And it's like, I'm just like,Whoa, why didn't I do this
before?
Like, why did I follow thistraditional firm path?
Why didn't I just go for it withthese innovative ideas and
whatnot?
And I, I guess it's because.
We're, I think there's a fear asa CPA that we might do something
(13:03):
wrong that, you know, the AICPAdoesn't like contingent fees,
for example, well, this is not acontingent fee, but people
assume it is.
And so you kind of want to hidethat and be like, well, I know
it's working for me.
I know it's.
Uh, orientating my, orientating,whatever that word is,
orientating my clients to likeresults oriented and they're so
(13:27):
much happier by paying me somuch more, but why do other
people seem to be rejectingthis?
And so, you know, I went years,kind of started coaching other
accountants, found passion andspeaking to other accountants
about the transformation that I,that I made in my own firm.
And um, and then I finally likebit the bullet and created my
(13:49):
own tax advisory software andthe the whole ROI methodology is
ingrained throughout thatsoftware.
Now here's what's cool and whyI'm like so openly speaking
about it today.
The AICPA is embracing mypricing methodology.
Yes, yes, yes, I know.
(14:09):
I know it is like a dream cometrue for them to recognize that
we need that change in ourindustry and profession and to
help move CPAs in thatdirection.
So I have a free workbook.
I'm happy to provide the linkfor everybody that's listening
today, but the AICPA will beofficially releasing.
That workbook early 2025 aswell.
KC Brothers (14:32):
Wow.
Yeah.
Look at, look at you, Jackie.
That is so exciting.
Okay.
There's some details I want todouble down on throughout there.
Um, how big was your firm whenyou really hit the wall?
Um, after your first, how manyemployees?
Yeah.
Jackie Meyer (14:50):
So I had about four contractor staff members.
I was a severe control freak.
I think around, like, distrustfears of the way I grew up and
whatnot.
My
KC Brothers (15:04):
next question was going to be, did you have
anybody in the firm that youcould rely on, that you could
delegate to?
But it sounds like with the typeof employees you had and then
what you were just saying, thatYou didn't set yourself up in a
way to, to do that in a firm.
Jackie Meyer (15:19):
No, I didn't.
I mean, looking back, I did havea couple of people that were
just so loyal to me over so manyyears, even as subcontractors.
Um, and I don't know if I, myheart could even embrace or
appreciate that at the time, butnow I definitely do.
Um, you know, especially withthe, the employee and, work, uh,
(15:42):
landscape that we're in rightnow where no one wants to do any
work.
Um, but yeah, so I wasmicromanaging, I was a control
freak and I had about 250clients, so a decent load for a
smaller practice.
I was at about 350 K of grossrevenue, so I was doing okay.
I was netting around like 200,000 probably out of that with
(16:05):
my, my subcontractors.
What happened and I'm glad youasked this because there's a
really nice like streamlineprocess that happened there that
I highly recommend for others.
I went to one of my favoriteclients, one of these, you know,
local executive high net wealth.
And I
was like, Hey, I want to convert my practice to
(16:28):
leading with tax advisory.
I want to put you on a package.
I'm going to charge you 10, 000a year instead of 1, 500 for
your 1040, right?
But I'm going to bring you like20, 000 a year in tax savings,
which was very minimal at thetime, but he was so excited and
he was like, I've been waitingfor you to bring something like
(16:50):
this to me.
I knew that you had it in youand like I was just waiting for
you to take that next leap Andso he signed up then I went one
by one to other clients thatwere kind of my favorite clients
Not necessarily the top grossingclients
KC Brothers (17:04):
but people which is actually a good thing to call
out because it's How you workwith them.
We know, you know, a big problemin accounting, really any
service based industry is thatthe client relationship
management, um, the, thecommunication that happens
there, the expectations there.
So if you already have someonethat you work well with, whether
(17:26):
they're the highest, mostprofitable client really
shouldn't matter to your point,because what you can do is work
well together.
To make them more profitable.
I love that.
Jackie Meyer (17:37):
Yeah.
Thank you.
So yeah, so I did that Therewere a lot of clients I had
taken on that were literallyjust compliance focused.
They really didn't need planningAnd that's what everyone does
when they first start theirfirms and that's okay But I
recognize that that 80 20 rulewas so, like, so legit in that
(17:58):
circumstance.
Like, the, the people I wascollecting the least revenue
from and that I could do theleast work for and bring the
least amount of value to weretaking up the majority of my
time.
Yeah, yeah.
So I had to make a decision.
I had to set a boundary.
Which again is another thingthat no one really teaches us
how to do well in life, right?
(18:20):
Another book I highly recommendto anybody is boundaries by dr.
Henry cloud.
That's a great one.
It is I agree Yeah, so readingthat kind of book having a coach
to help me kind of get thoseparameters up You know, led me
down the path of, okay, youknow, I can really bring a lot
(18:41):
of value and make more moneywith less time off of 40 percent
of my clientele.
And then I just randomly went toa broker and I was like, Hey, I
have like 70, 000 worth ofannual revenue in 60 percent of
my clients that I don't want,but I'd rather pick who they go
(19:02):
to and, you know, potentiallyprofit from it versus just like,
Firing them and having no ideawhere they go.
And so they sold the clients forme.
It was like 10 percent a fee onthat annual revenue.
And I was able to hand selectout of like seven or eight
different CPA firms, exactlywhat I thought would best serve
(19:22):
those clients.
KC Brothers (19:24):
I love that.
And then that, that just goesback to adding to your
reputation and the way that youdeal with your clients, you
know, as opposed to leaving themhigh and dry and saying, Hey,
I'm pivoting.
You need to figure this out.
You've done them a solid, whichalso benefited you as a win win.
Jackie Meyer (19:38):
Yeah.
And I just remembered, I don'thave the best memory.
If you can probably guess fromall the things I just said, I
signed that sales agreement forthose clients.
It's the morning of my scheduledc section with my son Gabe.
So that would have been eightyears ago today.
KC Brothers (19:58):
Oh my goodness.
Jackie Meyer (19:59):
Yeah.
What a great anniversary.
I know, right?
And yeah, it's like all likeworked out so well, but.
I have to say, like, you have tohave those boundaries, and if
you're not good at keeping thoseyourself, surround yourself.
Even if you're paying otherpeople to hold you accountable,
like, just do that.
Because you have to have that toget that balance in life that
(20:22):
you really deserve.
KC Brothers (20:24):
So, how did you find your Coaches your business
coach.
Um, and and what what was itabout them that you felt like
made them a good fit?
For you and what you needed tolearn as a professional.
Jackie Meyer (20:39):
Yeah Um, I went to an accounting conference And I
heard someone bragging about howwell they were doing because of
a coach that they were usingOkay, i'm like, okay.
Yes, please tell me all abouthim.
And so that was mr.
Chuck Bauer You Um, and he issomething else.
Um, he is very masculine andlike intense.
(21:04):
And I meet with him and it'slike the biggest investment at
the time in my life.
It was like eight grand, Ithink, which was the biggest
investment I'd ever made inanything.
And I'm like, gosh, this guy isintense.
I don't know, like, if this isgoing to work out.
But then, you know, I, I kind ofhalf committed.
(21:25):
He had these small groups thathe was running.
I kind of started going to thoseand then I'm like, okay, I get
this.
And I started implementingeverything very quickly.
I realized like.
I wasn't going to do things ahundred percent the same as him,
but I could do it like 90percent and then put my own spin
on it and really like make it myown.
(21:47):
And
then I went to one on one coaching with him and
that's kind of when we starteddeep diving into creating
packages for my clients andthat, that big conversion.
And what's really fun is thatafter all that in 2018, he asked
me to actually coach with him.
And so we coached about.
20, 23 or 24 small groups ofaccounting firm owners over a
(22:11):
few years together to help themget all the amazing things he
had taught me, but then alsothings that I learned as a
practitioner.
And so that was a lot of fun.
KC Brothers (22:21):
Awesome.
Okay.
So we're, we're jumping all overin timelines here.
So we, You sold a portion ofyour book with the brokerage.
Yes.
Um, but that's not, it was laterthat you actually ended up
selling your firm.
I did.
Yeah, it was much
Jackie Meyer (22:40):
later.
So.
Yeah.
So I, I created TaxPlanIQ, whichis my tax advisory software for
accountants during COVID in2020.
Okay.
Um, I went to a vendor of mineand said, Hey, I have this idea.
I don't have any capital.
I'm a woman.
We all know we don't get VC likethe men do.
(23:02):
Right.
So I'm like, Hey, can I give youlike a percentage of sales and
you create this thing for me outof my vision?
They said, yes.
And.
The rest is kind of history.
A year into that softwarebusiness, it was worth more than
my CPA firm of 10 years.
So, yeah, and I was also able towork directly with accountants,
(23:25):
which kind of became more of mypassion and purpose.
Yeah.
Because I identified with their,the problems that they had, and
I knew that I had solutions forthose problems.
And so, um, I started thinkinglike, okay, I'd gotten my time
in my firm down to four hours aweek.
(23:46):
Yeah.
Like, you're being serious.
KC Brothers (23:48):
You're being 100 percent serious.
Oh yeah, for
Jackie Meyer (23:50):
sure.
KC Brothers (23:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always thought that TimFerriss was speaking
hypothetically.
Jackie Meyer (23:56):
No, it was four hours a week for sure because I
started a doctorate programwhich was taking, I was writing
like, Thousands of words a weekfor that.
And I was starting up TaxPlanIQand doing the coaching with
other accountants.
And so I had a time block, likethere was no tomorrow.
Like make sure I knew exactlywhat I was doing when during the
(24:17):
week.
KC Brothers (24:18):
I mean, you are a great case study in the concept
of like the path to wealth.
Stop, stop thinking that theonly path to wealth is trading
your time for money.
Yeah, you have to think outsideof that to achieve wealth like I
love that a new level of wealthYeah,
Jackie Meyer (24:40):
yeah, I love how you summarize that that's gonna
have to be my next LinkedIn postI think but So yeah Um, I
realized like I was starting toget back into those workaholism
Tendencies because I get sopassionate about all the things
I do and I knew like somethinghad to give You And because my
(25:01):
passions weren't really with thefirm anymore, I also kind of saw
the writing on the wall.
We were starting to havestaffing problems.
I had 10, uh, half full time,half part time staff members at
that point in my firm that I wasdelegating, you know, all the
work to, really.
But, You know, we were hitting,we just hit COVID.
(25:22):
We're starting to see thatdecline in, in, in recruiting
people.
Well, and one of my coachingstudents who was like the best
implementer in the world, uh,came to me and was like, I know
you're really into this newstuff you're doing.
Would you be interested in memaybe acquiring some of your
clients?
(25:42):
And I thought, well, sure.
So at first it was just going tobe like about half of my
clients.
And then I was going to keeplike a really boutique little
firm.
And then it all came together sowell, um, that I ended up
selling the whole firm, um, soldfor 1.
5 times ARR in 2022, which isactually very high at that time.
(26:05):
Now we're seeing private equitykind of, you know, upping a
little bit more.
So, um, and it was all like,just, just so perfectly aligned.
I mean, it was probably sentfrom above, but I remember like
I was going to sell for 1.
25.
And I'm in this group, this likebusiness group, kind of like EO,
(26:26):
it's called C12.
And I went to them and I toldthem about it and they're like,
why are you selling for solittle?
And I'm like, that's, that'sgood for my industry.
And they're like, but you'redifferent.
Like your firm's different.
You have everyone on annualpackages.
You are bringing so much valueto the table.
You should ask for 1.
(26:47):
5.
And I went back to Michelle, thebuyer.
And I was like, Hey, you know,I'm feeling a little weird about
this.
Like my, it was really early inour discussion still.
Right.
And I was like, I kind of feellike it's worth a bit more.
And she's like, well, what doyou want?
And I was like, I want 1.
5 and she's like, okay, deal.
So yeah.
(27:07):
And now the clients have likecompletely forgotten about me.
They're taken such good care ofby the new firm, but it, yeah, I
mean, It all worked out well.
I'm four years into TaxPlanIQ,and, you know, we're actually
just got an eight figureevaluation, which is, like,
blows my mind that I've beenpart of founding something that
(27:31):
can grow so quickly like thatand impact so many people.
KC Brothers (27:35):
I love it.
You've really been a greatexample of thinking outside of
the box, this abandoningtraditional mentality of trading
your time for money.
Um, You've broken all of thestereotypes of accounting and
(27:56):
the things that, um, yeah, Ithink hinder a lot of
accountants, um, that willhopefully, excuse me, lay a
great groundwork for the verynear future of accounting in
general, because it's, it'sshifting, um, One of our recent
(28:19):
episodes with Joe Woodard, hetalked about now is the messy
middle, and I loved that phrase.
Cause it's like, yeah, we're inthis painful transition where
we're on the edge of a lot ofthese traditional, um,
behaviors, these, uh, highintensity work weeks, um, uh,
(28:40):
accounting has been a laggingindustry in terms of adopting
technology, and so here you arehaving built a technology to
help the industry, I think.
Accounting has a bright, brightfuture because of people like
you.
So thank you for breaking themold.
Jackie Meyer (28:56):
Oh, thank you.
Well, same to y'all.
I mean, Kennepe is alwaysbreaking the mold as well.
I mean, y'all are doing a lot ofinnovative things over there as
well.
So it's good to be surrounded bya lot of forward thinkers in
this industry.
And it is exciting to see whereit's going.
KC Brothers (29:12):
It really is.
And software is a great way toimpact that, to create some
efficiencies.
It's one reason why I loveworking here is like, I, I see
and hear these things andeverybody, not everybody, I
shouldn't speak for everybody,but it's not uncommon that I
hear someone who has a similarbackground to you.
(29:34):
And then there was some tippingpoint, right?
Um, and I'm a firm believer inthis concept that you've coined
of the, uh, work life balancesheet, um, that your book is on.
That like, we are more roundedindividuals.
We, um, Can accomplish more workwhen we do allow ourselves that
(29:55):
balance when we allow ourselvesto show up fully in whatever
roles we want to show up as likefor you and me, we're both
working mom.
So, like, going and showing upand being a mother when I'm
needing to be a mother, I thinkreally does allow me to then
show up more fully in my canopyseat.
(30:18):
so much.
You know, like it's just, uh, weare all humans.
We're not just workhorses there.
When we see ourselves moreholistically that way, I think
we really can perform better inall aspects of our lives.
For sure.
Well said.
Well, thank you.
You are an inspiration.
We'll share some of the thingsthat you've mentioned, um, in
(30:40):
show notes or in a blog post aswell.
Um, and when you have a link toyour book, let us know.
Jackie Meyer (30:46):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Welcome to another episode of Canopy Practice
Success.
I am here, Kasey Brothers, yourhost, with Dr.
Jackie Meyer.
Jackie, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you, Kasey.
It's good to have you here.
Give us a little background onyou, because we've got some
really fun things to talk abouttoday.
Jackie Meyer (00:25):
Yeah, so much to talk about.
Um, well, I am a CPA turneddoctor, not that kind of doctor.
I recently received a doctoratein leadership, uh, wrote a book
called the balance sheet of lifeformula.
And had my own CPA firm for 12years that I sold a couple years
ago and, um, really kind oftransformed it from all the
(00:49):
traditional ways to modern bestpractices and, and really like
amp the value of it.
And so, yeah, there's a lotthere, but we can kind of deep
dive into each of those aspectsas we go.
KC Brothers (01:01):
Okay, well, I mean, you've written a book on the,
this topic of balance sheet oflife, um, which I take is your
vernacular for work lifebalance, harmonies, you know,
whatever you want to call it.
Yeah.
Um, which accountants?
Mm.
Mm.
Struggle with.
(01:22):
But I don't know why.
I know it's been a topic, like,it's interesting to me, like, I
always kind of want to dive backand think, like, okay, where did
this start?
Who knows, right?
Who cares?
Almost at some point.
But most accountants reallystruggle with this.
Jackie Meyer (01:39):
Yeah, I think it's kind of naturally ingrained in
us, um, with our moreintroverted personalities, very
numbers oriented, uh, but alsoreally good.
We tend to be good people too.
And we want to help people inour own like quirky way.
And so that somehow tends totranslate into this workaholism
(02:01):
that really, you know, getspeople over there in over their
heads.
KC Brothers (02:06):
Yeah.
And that, that's fair that thatcould be a really good thing.
obvious root cause of just thisdesire to help.
Um, so tell us a little bitabout your situation, what you'd
gotten into.
Jackie Meyer (02:18):
Sure.
Um, so I started thinking Iwould be in finance, and then I
worked in college full time.
Um, I started working reallyyoung, when I was 15 actually.
But, um, I started working for afinancial planner slash CPA firm
in Fort Worth, Texas.
I live in South Lake, Texas now,which is close to DFW airport.
(02:42):
And he exposed me to taxpreparation, which for most
people is like bleh.
I loved it.
Like I love the idea.
Not growing up with a whole lotof money.
I had a single teacher, mom.
Um, I love the idea of usingyour brain and knowledge to like
magically and legally findpeople money.
(03:04):
And
so I fell in love with tax planning.
And I kind of like, you know,went got the back way into
Deloitte got into their high networth division.
Um, and then went to a smallerfirm here in DFW, kind of
learned the ropes of running apractice.
And I started my own firm in2010.
KC Brothers (03:26):
And I mean, the big four have their own issues with
work life balance as well.
Oh yeah.
How did that transition?
Like, were you instantly workingas many hours as you'd been
working at Deloitte?
Like, or, or I'm sure you hadto, you know, there's this, um,
anxiety that comes with startingin business and you've got to
(03:48):
keep the lights on.
You've got to bring clients in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What happened?
Jackie Meyer (03:53):
Well, so that's a funny story in itself.
So first of all, Deloitte waslike, taught me everything that
I didn't want out of my career.
Uh, it's great on your resume.
I got many great clients thatsaid, Oh, you worked at
Deloitte.
You must be amazing.
But you have this huge buildupof like all, how amazing it is
(04:16):
to work for the big four.
And then.
You're in this like competitionmode with all the other staff
members as to who can stay thelatest, who can show up the
earliest, who's the smartest.
It was just like very toxicenvironment in my particular
niche.
Um, so I barely made it to liketwo years there before leaving.
(04:39):
Um, as that transferred intostarting my own firm.
I would say I easily was workingovertime.
Um, the firm I had worked atprior to starting my own
actually let me go.
And so I was very, very upset atthe time.
(05:00):
Um, I pushed a lot ofboundaries.
I really wanted to grow taxplanning and grow into Southlake
and Staff weren't getting araise.
And, you know, it was like allthis like argumentative stuff
that I didn't realize at thetime is really just me being an
entrepreneur, but I didn't knowI was an entrepreneur at heart.
Right.
Like I wanted to run the show
(05:22):
and so,
you know, they wanted me to sign a letter
stating that I was quitting.
And I was like, no, like I'llsign a letter stating that
you're letting me go.
And.
I thought it was like the worstthing to ever happen to me and
felt so low, but looking back,it was the best thing to ever
happen to me because it forcedme to start my own firm and it
(05:44):
forced me down this path that Imaybe wouldn't have chosen for
myself.
But I mean, I had 80K of studentloan debt that I paid off in
year one of that part time onthe side CPA firm, uh, as I was
growing.
And I just started, it juststarted multiplying.
I mean, the money that you canmake doing your own business
(06:04):
service based business.
Is so much more than working forsomeone else, but yeah, I got
into the, you know, workingnights and weekends trap and my
husband has always been sosupportive of that, but things
started to crumble a bit when I,we, we started to have kids, you
know?
KC Brothers (06:21):
Yeah.
And I mean, they, that reallykind of puts things in
perspective.
Anyway, so you started to havekids, um, but you were still, I
mean, it's your firm and there'sa lot going on and there's this
ownership, this emotionalattachment.
It's almost like its own baby.
(06:43):
Yeah.
Right.
Um, but you ended up selling thefirm.
So tell us what happenedbetween, you know, this, um,
workaholic, uh, portion ofstarting your own firm, having
kids and then getting in aposition to be sold.
Yeah.
So,
Jackie Meyer (07:03):
um, I didn't grow up in the kind of safest
emotional environment.
My mom had, has severe anxietyand, um, she would be worried
about the weather or, you know,like someone coming after us or
just these really irrationalfears all the time.
And so it was kind of, you know,unstable environment growing up.
(07:25):
Um, I.
What I believe now is that Iprobably had major depressive
disorders since I was a child,but being a high performer, I
just kind of like went, I'mgoing to just work through this,
work through this, work throughthis.
And that all kind of crumbledaround me.
Once I had my daughter, the endof 2013, I planned both my kids,
by the way, to have them inDecember.
(07:49):
Yeah.
Around tax season.
Yeah.
Um, you know, it just seems sopractical, right?
Yeah.
In
KC Brothers (07:57):
fact, to that point, I've seen LinkedIn posts.
Yeah.
Um, talking about this and howbackwards that is, but it's
something that like, it'sreality and it's such a bummer
that it is.
For
Jackie Meyer (08:10):
sure.
Yeah, it is.
It is, but you know, teach theirown, it all seemed to work out
in its own way.
But I mean, today is my son'seighth birthday.
The end of this month is mydaughter's 11th birthday.
So yeah, we've got a lot ofcelebrations right now.
Um, but yeah, so I had mydaughter and I was still trying
(08:32):
to be the perfect, like type A.
know it all firm owner and thena mom and the concept of being
this baby's like only source ofUh, you know food and water and
energy and all those things itjust like Really like put life
into a totally differentperspective.
(08:53):
And so What I think now at thetime I started feeling really
sick like muscle soreness, um,extreme fatigue.
I was so brain fogged that myhusband would be like, you are
talking so slow.
Like what is going on with you?
And I thought, I'm like, do Ihave a brain tumor?
(09:15):
I went to like all these doctorslooking back, honestly, I think
it was postpartum depression.
And, um, I just didn't evenrecognize it.
It's so hard to recognize thosethings in yourself.
And so I would encourage anyonewatching or listening if.
If, um, you know, if youidentify with that at all, you
know, go to a doctor, maybe goto a counselor because after
(09:37):
seeing a ton of regular doctors,a counselor is who helped me
sort through it the most,because I was focusing so much
on how bad I felt that I wasn'table to like, knock myself out
of that and be like, okay.
What can I do?
What medication can I take?
How can I get out of this sothat I can be the best mom and
business owner that I can be?
And so I was working through alot of problems there, ended up
(10:00):
getting diagnosed with chronicfatigue.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith it, but it's essentially
like, we don't know what's wrongwith you, but.
You sleep twice as much aseveryone else and your body's in
pain.
So it must be chronic fatigue.
Um, and I was lucky because Istarted surrounding myself with
the greatest mentors and coachesthat really like helped keep me
(10:23):
on track and, you know, keep theeye on the prize of what was
really important with my familyand whatnot.
And my husband was always sosupportive as well.
Um, and so I thought I Gettingthings back to normal.
And then of course I getpregnant with my second child,
Gabriel in 2016.
And I like almost have this likeimmense panic attack of like,
(10:46):
whoa, I, I got flooded with allthe bad, like feelings and vibes
and things that I had donewrong, so to speak in 2014 with
Alex.
And I didn't want to do thatagain.
So I went to a business coach ofmine, Chuck Bauer, um, who was a
dear friend of mine.
And I'm like, I'm pregnant withmy second kid.
(11:07):
I cannot repeat this again.
Like, please help me get out ofthis.
And he asked me one question.
He said, What clients do youlike working with?
And why,
KC Brothers (11:17):
and in my, yeah, exactly.
Jackie Meyer (11:20):
And in my mind, I heard what clients do you love
working with?
And why?
Cause I love the word love, buthe would never say love in
business.
That's something we joke about.
Uh, and I knew like, I lovedworking with high net wealth
executives in my local area thatwere super sharp.
They had come out of thecorporate world, started their
(11:40):
own entrepreneurial journey.
And I just loved helping themfind tax saving strategies, you
know, contribute back to theirlegacies, contribute to charity
and be able to rub elbows withthese amazing people.
And so he's like, let's developpackages and pricing around
that.
(12:01):
So we did, I ended up creatingmy own pricing method called the
ROI method of value pricing.
And it's literally just acalculator calculator.
That takes the tax savings youcan find for somebody and then
applies these different factorsto calculate a price.
So complexity of engagement,urgency, risk involved, and then
(12:22):
other benefits like intangiblebenefits that you do for the
client.
Wow.
Yeah.
And so I start quoting myclients one by one to convert
them over.
I'm three to five times in mypractice revenue.
I'm equally decreasing my timeto get down to one of my
favorite books in the world, thefour hour work week by Tim
(12:42):
Ferriss.
Right.
And it's like, I'm just like,Whoa, why didn't I do this
before?
Like, why did I follow thistraditional firm path?
Why didn't I just go for it withthese innovative ideas and
whatnot?
And I, I guess it's because.
We're, I think there's a fear asa CPA that we might do something
(13:03):
wrong that, you know, the AICPAdoesn't like contingent fees,
for example, well, this is not acontingent fee, but people
assume it is.
And so you kind of want to hidethat and be like, well, I know
it's working for me.
I know it's.
Uh, orientating my, orientating,whatever that word is,
orientating my clients to likeresults oriented and they're so
(13:27):
much happier by paying me somuch more, but why do other
people seem to be rejectingthis?
And so, you know, I went years,kind of started coaching other
accountants, found passion andspeaking to other accountants
about the transformation that I,that I made in my own firm.
And um, and then I finally likebit the bullet and created my
(13:49):
own tax advisory software andthe the whole ROI methodology is
ingrained throughout thatsoftware.
Now here's what's cool and whyI'm like so openly speaking
about it today.
The AICPA is embracing mypricing methodology.
Yes, yes, yes, I know.
(14:09):
I know it is like a dream cometrue for them to recognize that
we need that change in ourindustry and profession and to
help move CPAs in thatdirection.
So I have a free workbook.
I'm happy to provide the linkfor everybody that's listening
today, but the AICPA will beofficially releasing.
That workbook early 2025 aswell.
KC Brothers (14:32):
Wow.
Yeah.
Look at, look at you, Jackie.
That is so exciting.
Okay.
There's some details I want todouble down on throughout there.
Um, how big was your firm whenyou really hit the wall?
Um, after your first, how manyemployees?
Yeah.
Jackie Meyer (14:50):
So I had about four contractor staff members.
I was a severe control freak.
I think around, like, distrustfears of the way I grew up and
whatnot.
My
KC Brothers (15:04):
next question was going to be, did you have
anybody in the firm that youcould rely on, that you could
delegate to?
But it sounds like with the typeof employees you had and then
what you were just saying, thatYou didn't set yourself up in a
way to, to do that in a firm.
Jackie Meyer (15:19):
No, I didn't.
I mean, looking back, I did havea couple of people that were
just so loyal to me over so manyyears, even as subcontractors.
Um, and I don't know if I, myheart could even embrace or
appreciate that at the time, butnow I definitely do.
Um, you know, especially withthe, the employee and, work, uh,
(15:42):
landscape that we're in rightnow where no one wants to do any
work.
Um, but yeah, so I wasmicromanaging, I was a control
freak and I had about 250clients, so a decent load for a
smaller practice.
I was at about 350 K of grossrevenue, so I was doing okay.
I was netting around like 200,000 probably out of that with
(16:05):
my, my subcontractors.
What happened and I'm glad youasked this because there's a
really nice like streamlineprocess that happened there that
I highly recommend for others.
I went to one of my favoriteclients, one of these, you know,
local executive high net wealth.
And I
was like, Hey, I want to convert my practice to
(16:28):
leading with tax advisory.
I want to put you on a package.
I'm going to charge you 10, 000a year instead of 1, 500 for
your 1040, right?
But I'm going to bring you like20, 000 a year in tax savings,
which was very minimal at thetime, but he was so excited and
he was like, I've been waitingfor you to bring something like
(16:50):
this to me.
I knew that you had it in youand like I was just waiting for
you to take that next leap Andso he signed up then I went one
by one to other clients thatwere kind of my favorite clients
Not necessarily the top grossingclients
KC Brothers (17:04):
but people which is actually a good thing to call
out because it's How you workwith them.
We know, you know, a big problemin accounting, really any
service based industry is thatthe client relationship
management, um, the, thecommunication that happens
there, the expectations there.
So if you already have someonethat you work well with, whether
(17:26):
they're the highest, mostprofitable client really
shouldn't matter to your point,because what you can do is work
well together.
To make them more profitable.
I love that.
Jackie Meyer (17:37):
Yeah.
Thank you.
So yeah, so I did that Therewere a lot of clients I had
taken on that were literallyjust compliance focused.
They really didn't need planningAnd that's what everyone does
when they first start theirfirms and that's okay But I
recognize that that 80 20 rulewas so, like, so legit in that
(17:58):
circumstance.
Like, the, the people I wascollecting the least revenue
from and that I could do theleast work for and bring the
least amount of value to weretaking up the majority of my
time.
Yeah, yeah.
So I had to make a decision.
I had to set a boundary.
Which again is another thingthat no one really teaches us
how to do well in life, right?
(18:20):
Another book I highly recommendto anybody is boundaries by dr.
Henry cloud.
That's a great one.
It is I agree Yeah, so readingthat kind of book having a coach
to help me kind of get thoseparameters up You know, led me
down the path of, okay, youknow, I can really bring a lot
(18:41):
of value and make more moneywith less time off of 40 percent
of my clientele.
And then I just randomly went toa broker and I was like, Hey, I
have like 70, 000 worth ofannual revenue in 60 percent of
my clients that I don't want,but I'd rather pick who they go
(19:02):
to and, you know, potentiallyprofit from it versus just like,
Firing them and having no ideawhere they go.
And so they sold the clients forme.
It was like 10 percent a fee onthat annual revenue.
And I was able to hand selectout of like seven or eight
different CPA firms, exactlywhat I thought would best serve
(19:22):
those clients.
KC Brothers (19:24):
I love that.
And then that, that just goesback to adding to your
reputation and the way that youdeal with your clients, you
know, as opposed to leaving themhigh and dry and saying, Hey,
I'm pivoting.
You need to figure this out.
You've done them a solid, whichalso benefited you as a win win.
Jackie Meyer (19:38):
Yeah.
And I just remembered, I don'thave the best memory.
If you can probably guess fromall the things I just said, I
signed that sales agreement forthose clients.
It's the morning of my scheduledc section with my son Gabe.
So that would have been eightyears ago today.
KC Brothers (19:58):
Oh my goodness.
Jackie Meyer (19:59):
Yeah.
What a great anniversary.
I know, right?
And yeah, it's like all likeworked out so well, but.
I have to say, like, you have tohave those boundaries, and if
you're not good at keeping thoseyourself, surround yourself.
Even if you're paying otherpeople to hold you accountable,
like, just do that.
Because you have to have that toget that balance in life that
(20:22):
you really deserve.
KC Brothers (20:24):
So, how did you find your Coaches your business
coach.
Um, and and what what was itabout them that you felt like
made them a good fit?
For you and what you needed tolearn as a professional.
Jackie Meyer (20:39):
Yeah Um, I went to an accounting conference And I
heard someone bragging about howwell they were doing because of
a coach that they were usingOkay, i'm like, okay.
Yes, please tell me all abouthim.
And so that was mr.
Chuck Bauer You Um, and he issomething else.
Um, he is very masculine andlike intense.
(21:04):
And I meet with him and it'slike the biggest investment at
the time in my life.
It was like eight grand, Ithink, which was the biggest
investment I'd ever made inanything.
And I'm like, gosh, this guy isintense.
I don't know, like, if this isgoing to work out.
But then, you know, I, I kind ofhalf committed.
(21:25):
He had these small groups thathe was running.
I kind of started going to thoseand then I'm like, okay, I get
this.
And I started implementingeverything very quickly.
I realized like.
I wasn't going to do things ahundred percent the same as him,
but I could do it like 90percent and then put my own spin
on it and really like make it myown.
(21:47):
And
then I went to one on one coaching with him and
that's kind of when we starteddeep diving into creating
packages for my clients andthat, that big conversion.
And what's really fun is thatafter all that in 2018, he asked
me to actually coach with him.
And so we coached about.
20, 23 or 24 small groups ofaccounting firm owners over a
(22:11):
few years together to help themget all the amazing things he
had taught me, but then alsothings that I learned as a
practitioner.
And so that was a lot of fun.
KC Brothers (22:21):
Awesome.
Okay.
So we're, we're jumping all overin timelines here.
So we, You sold a portion ofyour book with the brokerage.
Yes.
Um, but that's not, it was laterthat you actually ended up
selling your firm.
I did.
Yeah, it was much
Jackie Meyer (22:40):
later.
So.
Yeah.
So I, I created TaxPlanIQ, whichis my tax advisory software for
accountants during COVID in2020.
Okay.
Um, I went to a vendor of mineand said, Hey, I have this idea.
I don't have any capital.
I'm a woman.
We all know we don't get VC likethe men do.
(23:02):
Right.
So I'm like, Hey, can I give youlike a percentage of sales and
you create this thing for me outof my vision?
They said, yes.
And.
The rest is kind of history.
A year into that softwarebusiness, it was worth more than
my CPA firm of 10 years.
So, yeah, and I was also able towork directly with accountants,
(23:25):
which kind of became more of mypassion and purpose.
Yeah.
Because I identified with their,the problems that they had, and
I knew that I had solutions forthose problems.
And so, um, I started thinkinglike, okay, I'd gotten my time
in my firm down to four hours aweek.
(23:46):
Yeah.
Like, you're being serious.
KC Brothers (23:48):
You're being 100 percent serious.
Oh yeah, for
Jackie Meyer (23:50):
sure.
KC Brothers (23:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always thought that TimFerriss was speaking
hypothetically.
Jackie Meyer (23:56):
No, it was four hours a week for sure because I
started a doctorate programwhich was taking, I was writing
like, Thousands of words a weekfor that.
And I was starting up TaxPlanIQand doing the coaching with
other accountants.
And so I had a time block, likethere was no tomorrow.
Like make sure I knew exactlywhat I was doing when during the
(24:17):
week.
KC Brothers (24:18):
I mean, you are a great case study in the concept
of like the path to wealth.
Stop, stop thinking that theonly path to wealth is trading
your time for money.
Yeah, you have to think outsideof that to achieve wealth like I
love that a new level of wealthYeah,
Jackie Meyer (24:40):
yeah, I love how you summarize that that's gonna
have to be my next LinkedIn postI think but So yeah Um, I
realized like I was starting toget back into those workaholism
Tendencies because I get sopassionate about all the things
I do and I knew like somethinghad to give You And because my
(25:01):
passions weren't really with thefirm anymore, I also kind of saw
the writing on the wall.
We were starting to havestaffing problems.
I had 10, uh, half full time,half part time staff members at
that point in my firm that I wasdelegating, you know, all the
work to, really.
But, You know, we were hitting,we just hit COVID.
(25:22):
We're starting to see thatdecline in, in, in recruiting
people.
Well, and one of my coachingstudents who was like the best
implementer in the world, uh,came to me and was like, I know
you're really into this newstuff you're doing.
Would you be interested in memaybe acquiring some of your
clients?
(25:42):
And I thought, well, sure.
So at first it was just going tobe like about half of my
clients.
And then I was going to keeplike a really boutique little
firm.
And then it all came together sowell, um, that I ended up
selling the whole firm, um, soldfor 1.
5 times ARR in 2022, which isactually very high at that time.
(26:05):
Now we're seeing private equitykind of, you know, upping a
little bit more.
So, um, and it was all like,just, just so perfectly aligned.
I mean, it was probably sentfrom above, but I remember like
I was going to sell for 1.
25.
And I'm in this group, this likebusiness group, kind of like EO,
(26:26):
it's called C12.
And I went to them and I toldthem about it and they're like,
why are you selling for solittle?
And I'm like, that's, that'sgood for my industry.
And they're like, but you'redifferent.
Like your firm's different.
You have everyone on annualpackages.
You are bringing so much valueto the table.
You should ask for 1.
(26:47):
5.
And I went back to Michelle, thebuyer.
And I was like, Hey, you know,I'm feeling a little weird about
this.
Like my, it was really early inour discussion still.
Right.
And I was like, I kind of feellike it's worth a bit more.
And she's like, well, what doyou want?
And I was like, I want 1.
5 and she's like, okay, deal.
So yeah.
(27:07):
And now the clients have likecompletely forgotten about me.
They're taken such good care ofby the new firm, but it, yeah, I
mean, It all worked out well.
I'm four years into TaxPlanIQ,and, you know, we're actually
just got an eight figureevaluation, which is, like,
blows my mind that I've beenpart of founding something that
(27:31):
can grow so quickly like thatand impact so many people.
KC Brothers (27:35):
I love it.
You've really been a greatexample of thinking outside of
the box, this abandoningtraditional mentality of trading
your time for money.
Um, You've broken all of thestereotypes of accounting and
(27:56):
the things that, um, yeah, Ithink hinder a lot of
accountants, um, that willhopefully, excuse me, lay a
great groundwork for the verynear future of accounting in
general, because it's, it'sshifting, um, One of our recent
(28:19):
episodes with Joe Woodard, hetalked about now is the messy
middle, and I loved that phrase.
Cause it's like, yeah, we're inthis painful transition where
we're on the edge of a lot ofthese traditional, um,
behaviors, these, uh, highintensity work weeks, um, uh,
(28:40):
accounting has been a laggingindustry in terms of adopting
technology, and so here you arehaving built a technology to
help the industry, I think.
Accounting has a bright, brightfuture because of people like
you.
So thank you for breaking themold.
Jackie Meyer (28:56):
Oh, thank you.
Well, same to y'all.
I mean, Kennepe is alwaysbreaking the mold as well.
I mean, y'all are doing a lot ofinnovative things over there as
well.
So it's good to be surrounded bya lot of forward thinkers in
this industry.
And it is exciting to see whereit's going.
KC Brothers (29:12):
It really is.
And software is a great way toimpact that, to create some
efficiencies.
It's one reason why I loveworking here is like, I, I see
and hear these things andeverybody, not everybody, I
shouldn't speak for everybody,but it's not uncommon that I
hear someone who has a similarbackground to you.
(29:34):
And then there was some tippingpoint, right?
Um, and I'm a firm believer inthis concept that you've coined
of the, uh, work life balancesheet, um, that your book is on.
That like, we are more roundedindividuals.
We, um, Can accomplish more workwhen we do allow ourselves that
(29:55):
balance when we allow ourselvesto show up fully in whatever
roles we want to show up as likefor you and me, we're both
working mom.
So, like, going and showing upand being a mother when I'm
needing to be a mother, I thinkreally does allow me to then
show up more fully in my canopyseat.
(30:18):
so much.
You know, like it's just, uh, weare all humans.
We're not just workhorses there.
When we see ourselves moreholistically that way, I think
we really can perform better inall aspects of our lives.
For sure.
Well said.
Well, thank you.
You are an inspiration.
We'll share some of the thingsthat you've mentioned, um, in
(30:40):
show notes or in a blog post aswell.
Um, and when you have a link toyour book, let us know.
Jackie Meyer (30:46):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
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