March 26, 2025 • 54 mins
Dr. Vanessa Scott-Thompson shares her remarkable journey from reluctant teacher to pioneering leader, demonstrating how divine purpose often manifests through the very things we initially resist.
• First in her family to earn a doctorate degree, completing it by age 31
• Career evolved from teaching to leadership positions in K-12 and nonprofit sectors
• Found her calling in sacred teaching despite initial resistance
• Turned her church curriculum into a published book after multiple divine nudges
• Experience as an educator uniquely equipped her to advocate for her neurodivergent children
• Views herself as a divinely appointed "change agent" guided by Joshua 1:3
• Redefined success from achievements to making meaning and being light to others
• Emphasizes respecting all career paths and recognizing everyone's value
• Recommends taking career interest inventories, seeking divine guidance, and trusting your instincts
For more about Dr. Vanessa Scott-Thompson, visit her website at drvmst.com or find her on social media platforms including Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
Thanks for listening!
Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hello, my name is Valeria Wright and this is
Pressed Into Purpose.
Pressed Into Purpose is apodcast dedicated to examining
the journey toward discovering,embracing and living out one's
purpose.
In each episode, my guests willprovide their perspectives on
how they identified theirpurpose and the ways in which
(00:47):
accepting and pursuing it hasinfluenced and transformed their
lives.
Today's guest is Dr Vanessa MScott-Thompson.
She is an interdisciplinaryleader with K-12, higher
education and nonprofitexperience.
Since 2019, she has served as avice president in the nonprofit
sector.
Dr VMST has a bachelor's degreefrom DePaul University in
(01:12):
secondary education English.
She has both a master's degreein education administration and
supervision and a doctorate inhigher education administration
from Loyola University, chicago.
She is on the board ofdirectors for Girls Inc Chicago.
She has been married to herhusband for 22 years and has two
(01:33):
children, one in college and asixth grader.
She is an accomplished writerand her writing has been
featured on a variety ofChristian blogs and magazines.
She is also a certified lifecoach, editor and speaker.
She has also been a leader inchurches, including praise and
worship team, youth choir, youthchurch and new members class.
(01:55):
In 2022, she released herinaugural book entitled
Foundation Basics for NewMembers Teacher and Student
Manual.
You can find her on Facebook,ig, tiktok, youtube and LinkedIn
.
To learn more about her, pleasevisit her website, drvmstcom.
(02:19):
There's one more fun fact I havefor you about today's guest.
She's also my sister and myfriend.
Please help me.
Welcome, dr V.
Hello Dr V, hi sis, how are youtoday?
I'm nervous, but I'm good.
Well, you know, the Pressing toPurpose podcast is a comfortable
(02:41):
place.
You know, we're just going tohave some genuine conversation
here.
I want you to relax and justenjoy this time and we're going
to talk like we always talk.
Okay, okay, all right, okay,well, welcome again to the
podcast.
I'm so glad to have you here.
You are one of my sisters, oneof well, there are four of us,
(03:05):
and you are the closest to me,actually by two years, right,
and I'm just really excited thatyou're here today because, I
mean, we could talk about amyriad of things.
We won't get into all thethings because everybody doesn't
need to know everything.
It's not my business, but today,today, I want to talk about
some of your manyaccomplishments that I just read
(03:28):
, and I want to start off withdoctorate.
Okay, and the reason I want tostart there is because in our
family, before you, the highestdegree that had been achieved
was a master's degree, correct,and if I am not mistaken, that
was by our mother, correct?
And so I would like for you toshare with the people what made
(03:52):
you decide to get the doctoratedegree and what kind of
challenges presented themselvesalong the way.
Okay, so I don't know if youremember this when we were
children, mom says she wantedsomebody to go further than her,
and so I was like, okay, well,what's further than a master's?
Because at the time I didn'tknow.
Okay, so I learned that it wasa doctorate.
(04:13):
I don't know how I learned that, because we didn't have
internet back then, but Ilearned it.
Somebody told you, I'm sure, so, probably.
And so when I got to high school, I met Dr Dagny Blowland.
And so, dr Blowland, I was inregular English.
She said, vanessa, I think weneed to put you in honors
English.
And I was like what does thatmean?
So she was like it's morerigorous classes.
And I was like, okay.
And then, junior year, sheapproached my teacher and told
(04:41):
him to put me in AP English withher.
And I was like what?
But, dr Blowland, I asked her alot of questions in high school
about what it meant to have adoctorate.
So I learned about all of theyears it would take, the
dissertation process, having acommittee, yada, yada, yada, and
I said, ok.
So she was like the firstperson I saw with a doctorate.
So then I decided, all right, Ican't keep going.
(05:02):
So it's kind of insane, becauseI did.
Of course, we all did K-8.
Then I did high school, then Iwent right into college and
right after college I went rightinto my master's and after my
master's I went right into mydoctorate.
Yes, you did, yes, you did.
And so I was 31 or 32 when I gotmy doctorate, which was pretty
young.
I didn't really have anychallenges.
(05:27):
I did have a professor try toput up a barrier.
So he told me you're kind ofyoung to be applying for the
doctoral program because I was24.
And I said huh.
And he said we'd really likeyou to have more experience
before you apply for a doctorate.
He was like, plus people yourage bracket seem to be immature.
And so I told him I say, well,look, if you want to deny me
admission, then you do that.
But what is it that you'recalling me for?
(05:48):
He said I want you to withdrawyour application.
Actually, oh, wow.
I said I'm not withdrawing myapplication.
If you're going to deny me,deny me.
He didn't deny me, okay.
Seven years later, when he saton my dissertation committee, he
said I was one of the bestdecisions he had made, accepting
me into the doctoral program,because all the professors
talked about how I showed upmature and how I showed up ready
(06:10):
to learn, and my laughteralways reverberated throughout
the room.
Well, you know we havememorable laughs.
That's true, okay, sure, okay,wow.
So you were how old when youreceived the doctor?
(06:32):
So I got my doctorate in 2010.
So I look, math ain't muchstronger than less than dealing
with money, okay, but I think Iwas 31 or 32, okay, okay, and I
remember that time uh, becauseyou, uh, mom and dad were so
proud, yeah, and they, they saidwe have to throw her a party.
Yeah, because nobody in ourfamily has done this before,
(06:54):
yeah, and so I remember being atthe party and being so proud.
Listen, you know I've neverwanted to do all of that extra
education, but you have sinceyou were a child.
You know you have always been awhat I call an overachiever,
which is not a bad thing, okay,it's just, it's just.
You're always reaching for thenext goal.
Now, since I've been an adult,people have told me that I am an
(07:17):
overachiever as well.
I never knew that about myself,um, but I did.
But I have never been anoverachiever when it comes to
educational things, however.
So from that, were you theyoungest one in your class?
Yes, that year that I graduated, I was the youngest person to
get a doctorate.
(07:37):
Okay, and did you face anyBarriers in those classes With
your, I guess, uh, fellowstudents or professors, or was
it just that one professor?
It was that one at thebeginning.
And if I did encounter barriers,I wouldn't notice them anyway,
because I don't, I don't viewlife like that, I just keep it
(07:59):
moving.
Okay, I keep it moving.
So when you say you don't viewlife like that, what does that
mean?
So I do not see so.
A lot of people see life assuccesses and failures.
I see life as successes andthings you need to learn from
and grow from.
Okay, so for me, anytimesomething happens where it
(08:22):
knocks me off my square, I'mlike okay, okay, pause.
So, first of all, what am Isupposed to see in this moment?
Okay, what am I supposed toexperience in this moment.
And then, most of all, what canI learn from this moment?
Because I don't like repeatinglessons even though often I have
in my life.
I mean we all do when we don'tlearn the first time.
Correct, correct, not a funplace to be in.
(08:49):
Okay, okay, okay.
So if we move from thedoctorate, okay, and we go to.
I know that at one point youwere a teacher.
Yep, so very early in my career.
Yeah, so it doesn't say that inyour bio, but I know that you
were a teacher, I was, and sotell me about that time as a
teacher and then what promptedyou to move from teacher to
(09:13):
administrator?
So you know this, becauseyou're my sister, you know I
move around a lot.
So I started my career as ateacher at a school, and so
we're in Chicago.
So in Englewood Really didn'tlike a school, and so we're in
Chicago.
So in Englewood, really didn'tlike the school.
And so I went to teach at ahigh school that our sister
taught at, and then during thattime I was pregnant and so I
(09:38):
wanted to come out the classroomor at least try to figure out a
different schedule.
But in teaching you reallycan't do a different schedule.
So I quit my teaching job and Ibecame a.
I went to a nonprofit around thecorner from where we lived,
actually in Austin.
Okay, did that for six months.
That was not a great fit.
Got asked to go work at HeroWashington for their dual credit
program and also servicelearning.
(09:58):
So then come, as I'm cominginto the close of that, my old
principal from the high schoolcalled me and invited me back to
teach for him after I hadcalled him.
So I called him and said hey, Ireally would like to come back
to teaching, because at thatpoint I think my son was two or
three and he was like he mighthave been two, and he said you
can come back.
He was like, but I don't have ajob right now.
(10:20):
Well, you know, a few weekslater he had a job.
So he called me back.
He gave me freshmen.
That was not my jam.
Freshmen need a lot ofstructure in order to be
successful for the rest of highschool.
Okay, that wasn't my jam.
So halfway through the year heasked me to take over juniors
because of a maternity leave.
Okay, that was my jam.
Okay.
Okay, you found a sweet spot.
(10:41):
So I taught juniors that summer, and that next year as well.
Test scores went up, okay, andthen I announced to my boss that
I needed to quit again becausemy son at that point was showing
signs of things that I neededto get assessed.
He couldn't work with mebecause, again, teaching is not
flexible.
(11:01):
Yeah, so then I became aninstructional coach of teachers
in four high schools in Chicago,did that really well, did it
for two years.
Then we all got laid off in amassive layoff in 2010 with
Chicago Public Schools, becausethat's just what they like to do
, and I had a newly minteddoctorate, and so you would
think I would be panicked, but Iwasn't, because I was just like
(11:23):
it's going to be what it'sgoing to be, I'll get a job at
some point.
Okay, I ended up becoming anassistant principal in our
community that we grew up in,because the principal got my
resume from two people who knewher and from me applying.
She interviewed 49 people, or48 people, and she said, when I
(11:45):
saw your resume, I was like Igot to, like I gotta meet her.
Well, at the time I had likethis funky fro.
That was uneven, I needed apedicure, all kind of stuff, but
I went into the interview withthe best I could, but she was
impressed by my intellect and soI got hired okay, work with her
for a year.
She actually I learned a lotfrom her.
Her name is Dr Jasmine BakedOkay, and then, after that year,
(12:06):
our school was closing, so Igot laid off again, and I didn't
panic because three weeks latershe asked me did I want to lead
a school on the west side thathad two campuses?
And I was like, say what?
So I did that, went to leadthat school for two years.
No, for three years, okay.
At the end of the third year,though, I had some philosophical
(12:28):
differences with the managementcompany.
Okay, and I have no shametalking about this, because
there were 12 principals intheir portfolio at that point
and nine or ten of us resignedWow.
So I knew that my philosophicaldifferences we all probably had
them, and so people walked awayand I took a few months off
like six months, because I wasat that point to have my
(12:50):
daughter and then got theopportunity to work at a
university as an assistantdirector of a teacher-rear
program, and I liked that job,but I didn't love it because I
had to travel downstate in orderto sometimes do the work I
needed to do, okay.
Plus, it moved kind of slow andin K-12, things move a little
faster than they do in higher edand you definitely need things
(13:12):
to keep going.
I need things to keep moving Tokeep your attention.
Yeah, so about nine months in,I get a call from a school I had
interviewed at the prior year.
It was an all-girls high schooland I it was an all-girls high
school and I was asked to comeand lead that school.
Okay, so I remember walking tothe interview.
It was like 12 or 13 people Iinterviewed with and while they
interviewed me, I alsointerviewed them.
Mm-hmm, because at that point,my job was, even though it was
(13:36):
kind of not challenging, it alsowasn't stressful, which was
different for me, and so I waslike I'm not trying to go back
into stress.
Well, I did.
I took that job.
The job taught me a lot becauseI was a single site charter.
I closed that school in 2019.
A single site charter Explainthat.
What does that mean?
So it was a charter schoolwhere it was the only one, so we
(13:57):
had to do everything on site.
So, like when you work in aschool district, there's a
district office that handlescurriculum and payroll and
teacher development and all thatstuff.
When you're a single siteschool, all that stuff falls on
me as the principal, so I reallyfunction as an executive
director.
Oh, wow, I learned how tofundraise in a job.
I got media trained in a job.
(14:18):
I learned how to do videos inthat job Okay, it was a lot of
things.
I never realized that.
That's why you were doing allof those things.
Yes, because it was asingle-type charter and,
although I had a team, I stillhad to be able to lead that team
, okay.
So then in 2019, when thatschool closed, I made a deal
with another charter school inthe area.
I had 135 girls at that point.
(14:41):
The new school took 110 or 120of those girls Okay.
And I had 35 staff at thatpoint and the new school took
about 15 to 20 of those staffsOkay.
So I felt like I had done myjob, okay.
Like, okay, I have closed theschool will.
Everybody has found a softplace to land, mm-hmm.
And then I had about five or sixdifferent jobs I could have had
(15:04):
, and I chose a job in the SouthSuburbs, where I'm at now, at a
Christian nonprofit where weserve people with developmental
disabilities.
Wow, wow.
That is a journey that iseclectic.
I mean, you've done a littlebit of this, a little bit of
that, some more of this, alittle bit more of that, but
(15:28):
it's all culminated to thisplace where you're in now, yep.
And so my next question wouldbe with all of the steps along
the way, with all of the stepsalong the way, how did you
(15:52):
choose the next spot?
It sounds like a lot of theplaces chose you.
Yes, like you weren't evenreally looking for things all
the time.
I would say that's true.
It's a mixture.
It's a mixture of sometimes Ihad to apply interview, like
that job at the university, andsometimes, like my last job, I
got a call.
I would say it's all divine.
(16:13):
So I'm not one of those peoplethat say, oh, it's serendipitous
, my life is not serendipitous.
My life is order by the Lord,and I'm sure of that, okay.
My life is order by the Lord,and I'm sure of that, okay, okay
.
So have there been any timesthroughout the journey in your
career where you were like I'drather not do that, but you did
(16:37):
it anyway because you knew thatthat was what you were supposed
to do?
I got to think about that to do.
I got to think about that.
Honestly, the one job I did notenjoy was being a teacher.
Believe it or not, out of allthe things, out of all the
(16:58):
things I did not enjoy being ateacher, because when you teach
high school and people alwaystalk about, oh, teachers get all
this time off, but they don'tknow the load that teachers
carry, particularly English andmath teachers.
Okay, so we have to teach ourfive classes.
In the city, you have anywherefrom 25 to 30 kids.
When you're an English teacher,you have to give out essays and
stuff, because the childrenhave to know how to write.
You got to do presentations.
(17:19):
They got to know how to speak.
You need to do readings and youneed to do discussions.
They need to do readings andyou need to do discussions.
They need to know how todiscuss different things.
Then, on top of all that,you're planning lessons, grading
papers.
I also did after to be able toreally just impact the student.
(17:57):
Yes, ok, so I thought I'msitting here and I was going
back and forth and I was goingto bring this up, but it's just
a kind of a laughing momentreally, because you said, out of
all the jobs you did not enjoybeing a teacher.
I did not.
And I go back to when we werechildren and we used to play
school, school, yeah, and youalways had to be the principal,
yeah.
And whenever I would beg andbeg me like I want, I didn't
want to be principal this time.
(18:17):
I want to be the principal thistime.
I don't want to be a teacher, Iwant to.
I want to be principal thistime.
It was rare.
And then you'd finally relentand let me be the principal, but
you just would not act.
Right, but now?
But now I know that you justdidn't want to be a teacher.
And that's the funny thing.
People say I'm a great teacher.
When I run the conformerstudents, they say I was a
(18:40):
wonderful teacher.
Okay, but I did.
I did not love teaching, okay,okay.
So let's talk about there'steaching in the secular, and
then your bio talks aboutteaching in the sacred.
Yes, and so tell me aboutteaching, your journey in
teaching in the sacred.
That's so interesting.
(19:00):
So I knew it was always in uswell, in me and you, because our
mom is a both secular andsacred teacher.
So mom was a retired teacher,but she also taught Bible class.
Well, she still teaches Bibleclass.
What am I talking about?
Absolutely, I think I want tosay you and I first started
teaching at the church.
We grew up in youth church.
(19:21):
Yes, we didn't call it youthchurch then, I think it was just
youth sunday school, whateverit was.
Youth sunday teachers wouldallow us to kind of provide
lessons and so, but I didn'treally do anything with that
until I got to the not thechurch I'm in now, but my
previous church okay.
When I was asked to get be overthe new members class, okay, and
be in christian education, okay.
(19:42):
So I didn't mind it.
But the lady who was over it,sister Londa Brewer-Baker, love
her, but also because she istough, she knows her Bible back
and forth Okay, and she wantsyou to know your Bible back and
forth Okay.
She wants you to knowhermeneutics, homiletics,
esagices, yada, yada, yada, allthose things, all those things
(20:05):
that were new to me when I gotto that church.
And then she was giving usexams and giving us homework.
Okay, I didn't always cooperateI'm not going to lie Because
typically I had a full-time joband a family and so sometimes I
would do the homework andsometimes I wouldn't, but when I
would do the homework,particularly when we did it as a
group, we always did prettywell, okay.
But I was asked to teach a newmembers class in my last church
(20:27):
because the young lady wanted toresign.
All right, and the minister,elder Larry Long.
He said God told me you'resupposed to be the new members
class leader.
And I was like that's nice.
And so he circled back to me,said it-huh, and I was like
that's nice.
And then the lady who was overthe class said didn't elder long
(20:49):
tell you that?
God told him.
And so I have this theory thatwhen god sends something to me
three times, okay, I need to doit.
So the second time I heard it,I knew I was gonna end up having
to do it, but I'm stubborn.
And so when I got the thirdrequest, I went to my pastor and
asked him could I flip the newmembers class?
Because I had gone through thenew members class and I didn't
(21:10):
enjoy it.
Okay, and he was like,basically, what gives you the
right and the?
He didn't say it that way, butit was kind of like who are you
to want to change the class?
What qualifies you?
Because he didn't know at thetime.
Okay, my credentials, myexperience.
Once I flipped the curriculum,he was like whoa, what has come
(21:30):
from?
I was like from me and theBible and Jesus.
And so I taught that classuntil I left that church.
And they still want tounderstand.
Teach that class almost in theway that I left it Okay, wow.
And teach that class almost inthe way that I left it Okay, wow
.
So it sounds like your pressinghasn't necessarily been in the
(21:51):
secular teaching.
It sounds like your pressinghas come from the sacred
teaching yeah, it has.
So what have some of those?
If we had a window into yourworld and your talks with God,
(22:15):
what are some of thoseconversations like when God is
pressing you to do a thing thatyou don't necessarily really
want to do?
So I had this happen earlierthis year.
Okay.
So earlier this year my husbandwas driving and he was like I
think I need to send my wifeaway.
Well, I was already thinkingabout taking a sabbatical.
Okay, and the sabbaticalmeaning that I need to time to
write and do some other thingswithout the interruption of him
(22:38):
and my daughter.
I love them, but I needuninterrupted time.
He comes home, he says, bae, hesays I want to send you on
sabbatical and I said, okay, andso I go on sabbatical and
typically when I go onsabbatical because I try to go
once a year I try to make surein my hotel room the TV is off,
okay, that I have my journal,that I have my, that I have my.
(23:01):
I don't use my physical Bibleas much anymore, but I take my
iPad because I like BibleGateway.
Okay, because I like NIV, nlt,message you need those all the
different translations, yeah.
And then also I have found aBible dictionary online and also
a concordance, okay, and so allthose things.
So the way God talks to mereally is, the older I get is
(23:25):
through scripture, and sometimesit's through confirmation,
through other people.
Ok, so if somebody calls mewith a message from God and I
haven't heard it yet, I don'tdiscount it.
I just write it down, ok, untilit manifests.
So I told you the long storybecause we talked about me being
a lifelong learner.
So I'm currently a recipient ofa Duke Reflective Leadership
Grant.
Okay, how did that happen?
(23:46):
So I was in an executivecoaching group and one of the
guys sent me an email and saidhey, dr V, I think you should
apply for this.
And I deleted it.
And while I was on sabbatical aLinkedIn post came out about
the Duke Reflective LeadershipGrant.
Wow, and I was like so I pulledthe application up, but I saw
(24:08):
that it was multi-layered andevery question they wanted 1,500
words.
Okay, and I was like no thanks.
But while I was on sabbatical Istarted doing the application
anyway.
Okay, because then when I gotback home I saw something else
about Duke and I was like, fine,god, I will apply.
(24:28):
So he keeps, just God keepsnudging me and typically by
nudge two I'm submitted.
Well, no, let me not laugh.
By nudge two, I am ready to besubmitted.
Nudge three is when I getsubmitted, but nudge one, I
always say no thanks, or youknow my phrase not interested,
(24:55):
yes, yes.
So I would say that's how godtalks to me.
It's through scripture, okay,and sometimes through
confirmation of other people,though.
Sometimes go to the nature.
Do I hear God in nature?
No, but I can hear thestillness and I need to get real
still sometimes because mybrain is going to mat, limit it.
I mean what the Bible tells usbe still and know that I'm God.
(25:16):
So he wants us to be still sothat we can hear Him clearly.
Yes, that's a very importantthing to be still, so that we
can hear him clearly.
Yes, you know, that's it.
That's a very important thingto be able to do.
Today's episode is brought toyou by destiny film and media.
Go to destiny fam onecom forall your media needs.
(25:36):
Destiny film and media, yourdestiny through film and media.
So we've talked about yourcareer in the natural.
We've talked about the teachingportion in the spiritual.
So your bio also talks abouthow you've written a book, yep,
(25:59):
and so I want to talk a littlebit about this book and how you
like.
What was the inspiration for thebook and how did that all come
about?
So in 2020, when we had thepandemic.
So I really get irritated whenpeople talk about the pandemic.
Most people talk about it in anegative way, like it was a
rough time, I had a littledepression, whatever, and I'm
(26:20):
not saying that wasn't true forsome people.
That's not how my life works.
So when the right before thepandemic happened, I heard God
clearly say the curriculum thatyou did at your old church, you
need to flip it into a book, andI was like that's nice, wait a
minute, wait a minute.
So let's put a pin right there,okay.
So what you didn't want to do,the class that you didn't want
(26:45):
to teach, correct, the classthat God had to tell you three
times Correct this is whatyou're going to do, correct.
And then he gave you a roadmapto flip the class as you say Yep
To to, to make it even betterthan it was.
Then God took that very thingthat you didn't want to do
Correct, and then gave you abook.
(27:06):
That's what he said wow.
So he said take the curriculumfrom your old church, write a
book.
I was like nope, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
So so you had already had thecurriculum written.
It was I had a teacher manualand a student manual, 10 lessons
each.
That you had already had thecurriculum written.
(27:26):
It was I had a teacher manualand a student manual, 10 lessons
each.
That you had already written.
It was done.
And you said no when he saidput it in a book.
I did, because I was just likeI'm in my mind and this is
what's funny.
So I recently this is a sidebar, so get me back on track after
this story Okay, recently I wentto our parents' house and I
went to the basement and I foundthree plaques.
(27:48):
I won an essay contest in eighthgrade.
I won an essay contest in highschool and I won an essay
contest in college.
Wow, eighth grade year, twelfthgrade year, senior year of
college.
And I sat there for a momentabout a month ago when I was in
the basement and I was like Godwas just taking me back to what
had already been started at 12and 13 years old.
(28:11):
You're a writer, I'm a writer,so I say no, but because we're
in the pandemic and you wenthome and I'm trying to half
homeschool my daughter which wasa disaster and also trying to
work, because once again, youdon't like teaching, I don't
like to teach.
And also trying to work,because once again, you don't
like teaching, I don't like toteach.
And then trying to also do myjob and learn Zoom and
(28:34):
conference calls and all that,like we all were, yes.
And then God is like and whentime slows down, you need to be
writing some introductions andstuff for this book.
Well, first of all, I didn'teven know where to start, but we
all have the internet, right?
Yes?
So then I Google't even knowwhere to start, but we all have
the internet, right, yes?
So then I Google.
I know I Googled like parts ofa book, okay.
And then I started I have abunch of books in the basement.
(28:55):
So then I pull a bunch of booksout the basement, mm-hmm,
spread these books out, start tolook them over and I'm like,
fine, I will write this book,take this curriculum and write
this book.
And I really didn't have towrite it.
It literally only needed like atable of contents and an
introductory chapter andappendix.
And then I added because myhusband read my book and said
this book is missing something.
(29:16):
I just don't know what.
It is Okay.
And so we started talking aboutwhat it means to go to church.
So then I wrote a chapter onchurch etiquette, like what do
you do when you're not feelingwell?
How do you know how to choose aseat?
How do you do when you're notfeeling well?
How do you know how to choose aseat?
How do you know when you how todress those kind of things?
(29:38):
Because when people get saved,we assume that they're going to
come into church and knowexactly what to do, and that's
not truthful.
They need to be taught.
But also, why can't I give thema cheat sheet?
So back on track about thisbook.
So I write this book and we goon vacation that next summer,
even though it's in a pandemic.
In the meantime, I was like God,how am I supposed to publish
(29:59):
this book?
Am I supposed to self-publish?
Because at this time, I hadlearned it was three different
ways to publish a bookSelf-publish, hybrid publish,
traditional publish.
Self-publish is you doeverything yourself, you use
your own money, you go on Fiverror something like that and you
figure it out.
Hybrid publishing is you paythe company to do everything for
you, but you still own therights to your book.
(30:20):
Okay.
Traditional publishing isyou're trying to put together a
book proposal in order for apublisher to agree to publish
you.
Mm-hmm.
But every publisher typicallywants you to be able to write
three books, so they're notgoing to say yes most times to
your first book, unless theybelieve that you'll be able to
write two more books, becausethey want a two to three book
series.
Okay.
So after I learned all that, Idecided to go hybrid publishing
(30:43):
because we had pretty goodsavings and so I made an
investment.
Okay, book comes out inFebruary 2022.
Didn't know then what I know now.
I get on Facebook the yearprior because you know I had
been anti-Facebook yes, you hadbeen anti-social media,
everything.
So I got on Facebook that fall,because I was like, well, I'm
going to have a book to put out.
(31:04):
And that fall is when my firstarticle got published my
Educational Family Vacations.
Do you remember that?
Oh, yes, I do.
Okay.
So once that gets published, Ihear God clearly say that got
published.
The book is coming out inFebruary.
Okay, you can write.
So put this book out Now.
(31:26):
To date, I've only sold 200copies.
Let's know.
No, no, know, no, no, no, no.
That's not how we say that.
Okay, how do we say?
We say that to date, we've sold200 copies.
And counting and counting, comeon, that's how we say.
That's how we say that then,because there's not an only
because, listen, selling onebook is success, right, but when
(31:47):
I went to a writer's conferencethis summer, they said the
average author only sells 250books over their lifetime.
So I know I'm doing pretty good.
So in what a year?
No, the book has been out inFebruary to be three years, okay
, so in three years you've soldalmost 200 copies.
Okay, listen, your lifetime ismuch longer I mean yeah Than
(32:10):
three years.
I mean that just means that thepeople have not heard about you
yet.
They haven't, and so let metell people what the book is
about.
Yes, please.
So the book is for new membersor new Christians?
When I wrote the book I wantedfor new members, but it really
is for new Christians.
And the topics that the bookdiscusses, besides church
etiquette, is salvation, theGodhead, which is Father, son
(32:36):
and Holy Spirit.
A lot of people call it theTrinity.
The word Trinity is not in theword.
Stick to the word, which isGodhead, tithes and offering,
praise and worship spiritualgifts, and I'm missing a couple
right now because I'm blankingon it.
But each lesson is set up thesame way An introduction, the
materials you need, thequestions that you need to ask
as a teacher in particular, andthen the students have like a
(33:01):
student manual where they cantake notes, and I've put in a
lot of them in like charts andgraphs and stuff, so that they
can take notes.
The book is in one.
It really should be two, butyou know when I use my hybrid
publisher, I didn't have aninfinite amount of money, so at
some point I will be republishedAmen, hallelujah and it will be
two books, like it's supposedto be, and I believe that this
book will be good, not just forUS churches but any church,
(33:22):
because I actually had a Baptistperson, a Methodist person, a
Catholic person read the bookprior to publishing to make sure
that it met the needs ofeverybody.
The only lesson that peopledisagreed on was the tithes and
offering.
Everything else everybody wasokay with.
Okay, wow, that's pretty major.
Yeah, that's pretty.
(33:43):
It sounds like people should goout and get the book.
Shame on me, because I have thebook right upstairs and I did
not bring it down here.
We'll fix that, don't you worry, we'll fix that.
We'll make sure that we plugthe book so people know where
they can get the book and I'lljust show them the book and all
the things.
Okay, so now we've talked aboutthe book.
(34:04):
Are there any more books comingout of you?
You know what's interesting?
So right now I am writing mysecond book.
I got my little feelings hurtthis summer at a writer's
conference.
Why do you say that the bookthat I wanted to write that I'm
still writing, but it has adifferent twist is about being
the pioneer and trailblazer inquite a few things in our family
(34:27):
.
But what a literary agent toldme when I met with her is that a
lot of times, people of colorare pioneers and trailblazers.
She was like so your experienceis not that special?
She was like you have to figureout.
What can people learn from yourexperience?
Correct, how can you make itmore as a, as a you know, like
an educational, teachable moment?
Well, even before getting yourdoctorate, you were also the
(34:52):
first person in our family thatwe know about to study abroad.
Yeah, so you were out theredoing a lot of things that were
different, not only for ourfamily, but for the people that
were around us on the west sideof Chicago.
That's one of the chapters inthe book actually is about being
(35:12):
.
That's why it's pioneering andtrailblazing Studying abroad,
joining a board of directors,getting a doctorate, having
neurodivergent children the listgoes on.
It's a lot of first pioneeringand trailblazing that the Lord
continues to do.
And how does that make you feel?
(35:33):
I'm not going to lie to you.
I get pretty upset with God,because in my mind, I'm always
like for example, at my job, Iwas the first person of color
hired in the executive team whenI got hired in 2019.
Now, this organization at thattime was 70 years old.
You said 70?
At that time it was, theorganization was 70 years old
and I was the first person ofcolor hired in the executive
(35:55):
team Wow.
So when that kind of stuffhappens, I'm looking at God and
I'm going, and you know, wealways ask the why me?
And I do it too.
I'm like God.
Why me?
And the scripture that God gaveme for my leadership back in
2010, when I first became anassistant principal.
It's on every wall and everyjob I've had Joshua, chapter one
(36:16):
, verse 10.
Every place of the sole of myfeet shall tread upon.
That have I given unto you, asI said unto Moses.
And what he makes me say isevery place that I have given
unto you.
You, vanessa, you're supposedto be a change agent.
You're supposed to push back onstatus quo and you're supposed
to kill sacred cows.
Wow, that is hard to do, but Ihave done it just about in every
(36:41):
organization that I have led in.
Wow, because organizations arebetter typically when I leave
them, he goes.
A great example I told you aboutthat charter management company
where, you know, 10 years ago,I quit that job with 12 of the
principals.
At this point, my old school isthe only school that's still
standing in their portfolio.
(37:01):
What do you mean by that?
They had 12 schools at the time.
They now only have one, and theonly school that they have is
the school that I led.
Wow, so that lets me know thatwhat I did and what some
previous principals did and whatsome principals did after me we
were all able to build uponeach other, got it, and so I'm
(37:23):
pretty stoked about that.
I'm sad now because I actuallylearned that they're closing,
but that's because they lost areally good principal, so they
had a bad one after me and thenthey got a really good one right
after that one and he decidedhe didn't want to be bothered
either after eight years andthat's when the school started
to struggle.
But that school probably wouldhave stayed open a long time and
because it was some goodfoundation there, wow, wow, okay
(37:50):
, okay, we are pressing him toall kind of purpose here.
Um, so I, if you don't want totalk about this, we don't have
to, okay, but I'm going to ask aquestion because you, you, you,
you brought it up, okay, and,uh, you used, I believe, was
neurodivergent, yes, children,yes, can you explain what that
(38:14):
means?
Yes, so 20-something years ago,when my son got diagnosed.
We would say and we still sayit that a child has disabilities
, okay, but if your children arehigh-functioning, you really
shouldn't phrase it asdisabilities.
You should phrase it asneurodivergent, because that
means their brain worksdifferent, okay, okay.
So I have a son who's on thespectrum Okay, even though right
(38:36):
now he's flourishing in college.
But he still has issues, though, with perspective taking.
That will probably be lifelongand that's okay because he is
uniquely made the way he is.
I also have a daughter who hasADHD.
She is energetic from the timeshe gets up until the time she
goes to sleep.
There is no kindness whatsoever,and so I don't.
(38:57):
I love my children Absolutely,but I have looked at God and I'm
like you gave my other twosisters these normal kids.
I mean normal, normal in termsof like.
My kids have had a lot oftherapies and IEPs and supports
and had me running around thecity where really I found UIC
(39:19):
was a safe place, in order toknow how to support them, and
that's, that's a.
It's a lot, but I was capableof doing it because I had been
an educator, but that doesn'tmean I wanted to do it.
So, once again, here we are,here you go.
You're about to make this thing.
I hear you, here we go.
I mean the thing that youdidn't want to do right, correct
(39:43):
you.
God used that very thing thatyou didn't want to do to equip
you to do, to walk in theadministrative space Yep and the
leadership space, and he alsotook what you learned in the
(40:06):
secular to be able to help youin your home Correct, with your
own children.
Correct.
And I've helped other people'skids though too.
You know, sometimes you and myother sisters or friends call me
Absolutely so I can help otherpeople's resources, because it's
devastating when you get adiagnosis about your kid but you
can't again.
(40:26):
You can't say your kid willfail.
You have to say what is successgoing to look like for that
child?
Say that again for the peoplein the back.
When you get a diagnosis for achild, whatever it is, you
cannot say it's a failure ofwhat your child can't do.
(40:47):
You have to figure out whatwill success look like for that
child.
And that's what you just saidfor me has become a part of just
my everyday life when it comesto success, because success
looks different for everybody.
It does.
It really looks different foreverybody it does.
Growing up, I thought thatsuccess was you know, you got
(41:09):
the big house, you making acertain salary, you living in a
certain place and you making acertain amount of money.
And that's what.
That's what I thought successwas, because that's the quote,
unquote American dream, right.
As I've gotten older, I'verealized that it's.
It's not the American dream foreveryone.
Correct, because everybodydoesn't want to own a home.
(41:29):
Correct, everybody doesn't wantto make a million dollars a
year and everybody doesn't wantto Does it.
Every everybody's definition ofsuccess looks different, right,
so for so, for me, success isbeing able to take care of my
family.
Success is being able to takecare of my family, and it does
(41:51):
include, you know, living acertain way, okay, which
includes being in certainneighborhoods and, you know,
with certain amenities and thosethings.
But then also, for me, it'sabout being able to travel and
being able to just livecomfortably.
So I'm going to shift you alittle bit, because this week I
(42:12):
was in executive education, okay, and my professor, andrew Sykes
, shout out to him.
He talked about how every humanwants to be able to make a
meaning out of their lives, andI think that that's what you're
talking about, is, success isnot all the material, consumer
stuff, but it's more about whatis your mind, spirit and soul
(42:33):
saying about how you want tomake meaning of life or, to your
point, live it on purpose.
Yeah, okay, I like thatphrasing how to make meaning out
of life, how to make meaningout of your life, because I
can't always say that successwas me living on purpose.
(42:54):
I can't say that that was mytruth.
Okay, it is becoming my truth.
Okay, but when I was youngerand I would venture to say even
like my, my definition ofsuccess has even shifted in the
last five years okay, because itreally was, it was about doing.
(43:15):
It was about doing things forGod, which for me meant really
not just my fellow man, butmostly at church.
That's what it meant for me.
And so now it's shifting overthe past five years where it's
more of impacting my fellow man,got it and realizing that God
(43:41):
placed me on earth to be life,light and encouragement to
people.
Although I've known that for awhile, I've never really thought
about centering everything thatI do around those principles.
So what would you say your?
(44:02):
What would you say?
You are placed, you've beenplaced on earth to do Joshua 1,
1 to him, which is Every placeis the soul of a butcher treader
boy.
That have I given unto you.
As I said unto Moses, god sendsme places, whether it is church
or work or whatever, to be achange agent, push back against
(44:23):
the status quo, kill sacred cowsIn secular spaces.
It has been too, and this issomething that people don't
always love about me.
I have a standard of excellence.
That's what I believe.
That god sends me into placesto do to be a change agent and
give people a standard.
Okay, because oftentimes peoplethink they have a standard.
(44:44):
They don't.
They have a.
I'm good.
For most.
It is as Professor Andrew Sykessaid this week.
He called it you get to acertain point and you learn it
and you're like I'm good and youdon't want to really challenge
yourself to learn anything more.
People get comfortable or theyjust get satisfied with where
(45:11):
they're at and that's okay Notme.
So that is something that wehave in common and maybe it's in
our DNA.
Okay, because it's verychallenging.
I feel like every time I set agoal, whether it's a personal
goal or God-given goal everytime a goal is set and then I
(45:33):
achieve that goal, I'm lookingfor the next thing, right?
Not everybody and I know you dothe same thing I do, but not,
I'm learning.
Not everybody does that.
No, because some people, whenthey get their lives to a
certain point, they're good andthere's nothing wrong with that
Not at all.
I'm learning, though, thatthere is nothing wrong with that
, correct, because for me,correct, correct for me back in
(45:56):
2010, if you had to ask me whatsuccess looked like, I would
have told you my doctorate, andI still believe that, because
this is something the doctoratehas done that I don't think
people give enough credit to.
When you have masters anddoctors and even bachelors,
college degrees give youopportunity and access, just
like the trades, and so I don'twant to knock on that, because I
(46:17):
may have a college degree, butI still need that mechanic and I
still need that carpenter,absolutely so college degrees
and trades give you opportunityand access, not just for you,
but also for those who arecoming behind you, your family,
those in your sphere ofinfluence, whatever they may be.
I love that you highlightedit's not just about the college,
but it's also about the tradeshow much the the you get paid as
(46:38):
a union uh, laborer?
Uh.
Cement mason yes, uh.
Electrician plumber, uh, uh,iron worker yes, all the
(46:59):
different trades you with onceyou finish your apprenticeship
program, you are easily makinganywhere between 90 and well
into the six figures.
And that's why I get irritatedwhen people feel like and I feel
like in america we've done thisand we shouldn't have, we've
made the college degree thepinnacle, when really it's about
what does success look like foryou?
(47:22):
For you, because so I, so Iwent to a technical high school
and at the time we had tradeclasses, like they had the auto
shop, wood shop, print shop, allthe different shops, and those
things were important and we hadboard drafting, which is what
(47:44):
made me realize that I wanted tobe you know, to be an architect
, that I wanted to be, you know,to be an architect.
And now a lot of those, a lot ofschools don't have that in the
Chicagoland area, which to me isa kind of it's a sad state of
affairs, not that there aren'tstill some schools that do have
the programs, but I don't thinkthat there are enough of them,
(48:04):
because we, to your point, westill need the people who want
to work with their hands yes,and some people are just born to
work with their hands, yes, andthey're favored and graced to
do it.
And we also still need thepeople too.
Let me add this my soundstrength is coming from somebody
with a doctorate.
We also need people who justfinished high school to do some
(48:27):
of the jobs that we think aremenial but really you would
notice if they weren't done.
Listen, you need the securityofficer Absolutely.
You need the custodianAbsolutely.
You need the administrativeassistant Absolutely, because
when people have big roles andthey don't have some of the
other roles that are entry levelor mid-level, you notice it.
You notice that gap, yes, thatlack.
(48:52):
And I've gotten like this, theolder I've gotten, because it
really irritates me that peoplereally and downplay yes, they
downplay all their careers, yes,certain certain careers,
certain, uh, uh, quote-unquotestatuses of life, in life.
And we need everybody.
We need everybody because if we, because if we have no one to
(49:12):
pick up the garbage, then thecity is overrun, exactly, the
city is overrun with trash androdents.
Correct, you see what I'msaying?
Correct, if we have no one todrive the bus or the train, then
a lot of people are not gettingto the jobs that they need to.
Yeah, exactly, and our parents,our mother specifically, she
(49:33):
stressed to us you treateverybody with respect.
Yes, from the CEO, yes To thejanitor.
Yes, you treat everyone withwith the utmost respect, because
everybody matters.
And I lost that for a littlewhile.
I did and I had to get back toit matters.
And I lost that for a littlewhile.
I did and I had to get back toit.
Well, welcome back.
Yeah, yeah, I lost that for alittle while because it was like
(49:54):
, oh, I'm getting a doctorate,and then I just I remember when
I became a assistant principal.
That's when I realized, like,wait, all these other roles
don't just as important just asmy doctorate and being an
assistant principal?
Absolutely.
That's when I changed my tune,because who are you leading if
there's no one to follow?
Bingo, you know.
And how is vision carried out ifthere are no hands and feet?
(50:19):
Correct, you know, you need thevisionary, but you also need
the people to carry out thevision.
Correct.
And there is no shame in anyposition.
In any position, because allpositions are necessary, they
all matter, all of them.
That ain't even what we'resupposed to be talking about.
But look, that was a good, thatwas a good side note, just some
information that you need toknow.
Um.
So, as we kind of wrap up theconversation, okay, I want to.
(50:43):
I would like for you to talk tothe person that is looking or
seeking purpose, who doesn'treally know what their purpose
is.
What advice would you give orwhat steps would you give to
(51:04):
that person that is looking fortheir purpose or is afraid to
step out on it?
So I'm going to be practicalfirst.
So in high school or even incollege, you should have taken
some kind of career interestinventory, okay, so that you can
know the kind of jobs that youwill be, that you will be
interested in.
A lot of times, when you missthat, that just real basic step,
(51:27):
you end up doing a whole lot ofstuff that maybe you wasn't
purposed for.
But then we'll have to gospiritual, okay.
So then we have to seek the God, the Father, and say God, what
is it I'm supposed to do?
And a lot of people wait for anaudible voice for him to say it
.
But lots of times it will justshow up in things that you're
(51:48):
good at or things that peopleacknowledge and say you know,
has anybody ever told you?
And that's how sometimes youcan try to figure out at the
beginning, what your purpose is.
If you're further along in lifeand you're trying to shift, then
you're going to have to sitback down and say, ok, these are
the things that I've done.
(52:08):
What is it now that God iscalling me to, where some of
this will have a remnant of that, but it may be something
totally different.
You're kind of an example ofthat.
Right, you're in constructionmanagement, but this podcast is
what the spiritual side of youis supposed to be doing.
It's to help press people intotheir purpose, and so I guess my
encouragement will be in thenatural take a career interest
(52:31):
inventory, no matter what ageyou are.
You can find it on any Google.
It get you, do one.
Spiritually.
If you're a Christian, pleasesit down and pray and ask God
for guidance.
And then somebody in theaudience may say I'm not
faith-based, fine, so sit downsomewhere and listen to your gut
.
People say don't trust your gut, but a lot of you all have
(52:54):
instincts and gut that have notlet you on and so trust that I'm
right here.
So get, uh, do it and do aninventory, inventory or
assessment.
Sit with God and simply ask,yes, yes, and trust your gut,
okay, all right.
Well, I think that thisconversation has been.
(53:17):
It has blessed me and I knowthat if it's blessed me, that it
is blessed some of you that arelistening out there today.
So I want to say thank you, drV, for stopping by the Preston's
Purpose podcast, and Iappreciate your insight, I
appreciate your willingness toshare your story and I just
(53:37):
appreciate you being a greatsister and friend.
So thank you so much.
I appreciate you and I love youand until next time, this is
Preston's Purpose and we'll seeyou next time.
Today's episode is brought toyou by Destiny Film and Media.
Go to destinyfam1.com for allyour media needs.
(53:59):
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
You.
Hello, my name is Valeria Wright and this is
Pressed Into Purpose.
Pressed Into Purpose is apodcast dedicated to examining
the journey toward discovering,embracing and living out one's
purpose.
In each episode, my guests willprovide their perspectives on
how they identified theirpurpose and the ways in which
(00:47):
accepting and pursuing it hasinfluenced and transformed their
lives.
Today's guest is Dr Vanessa MScott-Thompson.
She is an interdisciplinaryleader with K-12, higher
education and nonprofitexperience.
Since 2019, she has served as avice president in the nonprofit
sector.
Dr VMST has a bachelor's degreefrom DePaul University in
(01:12):
secondary education English.
She has both a master's degreein education administration and
supervision and a doctorate inhigher education administration
from Loyola University, chicago.
She is on the board ofdirectors for Girls Inc Chicago.
She has been married to herhusband for 22 years and has two
(01:33):
children, one in college and asixth grader.
She is an accomplished writerand her writing has been
featured on a variety ofChristian blogs and magazines.
She is also a certified lifecoach, editor and speaker.
She has also been a leader inchurches, including praise and
worship team, youth choir, youthchurch and new members class.
(01:55):
In 2022, she released herinaugural book entitled
Foundation Basics for NewMembers Teacher and Student
Manual.
You can find her on Facebook,ig, tiktok, youtube and LinkedIn
.
To learn more about her, pleasevisit her website, drvmstcom.
(02:19):
There's one more fun fact I havefor you about today's guest.
She's also my sister and myfriend.
Please help me.
Welcome, dr V.
Hello Dr V, hi sis, how are youtoday?
I'm nervous, but I'm good.
Well, you know, the Pressing toPurpose podcast is a comfortable
(02:41):
place.
You know, we're just going tohave some genuine conversation
here.
I want you to relax and justenjoy this time and we're going
to talk like we always talk.
Okay, okay, all right, okay,well, welcome again to the
podcast.
I'm so glad to have you here.
You are one of my sisters, oneof well, there are four of us,
(03:05):
and you are the closest to me,actually by two years, right,
and I'm just really excited thatyou're here today because, I
mean, we could talk about amyriad of things.
We won't get into all thethings because everybody doesn't
need to know everything.
It's not my business, but today,today, I want to talk about
some of your manyaccomplishments that I just read
(03:28):
, and I want to start off withdoctorate.
Okay, and the reason I want tostart there is because in our
family, before you, the highestdegree that had been achieved
was a master's degree, correct,and if I am not mistaken, that
was by our mother, correct?
And so I would like for you toshare with the people what made
(03:52):
you decide to get the doctoratedegree and what kind of
challenges presented themselvesalong the way.
Okay, so I don't know if youremember this when we were
children, mom says she wantedsomebody to go further than her,
and so I was like, okay, well,what's further than a master's?
Because at the time I didn'tknow.
Okay, so I learned that it wasa doctorate.
(04:13):
I don't know how I learned that, because we didn't have
internet back then, but Ilearned it.
Somebody told you, I'm sure, so, probably.
And so when I got to high school, I met Dr Dagny Blowland.
And so, dr Blowland, I was inregular English.
She said, vanessa, I think weneed to put you in honors
English.
And I was like what does thatmean?
So she was like it's morerigorous classes.
And I was like, okay.
And then, junior year, sheapproached my teacher and told
(04:41):
him to put me in AP English withher.
And I was like what?
But, dr Blowland, I asked her alot of questions in high school
about what it meant to have adoctorate.
So I learned about all of theyears it would take, the
dissertation process, having acommittee, yada, yada, yada, and
I said, ok.
So she was like the firstperson I saw with a doctorate.
So then I decided, all right, Ican't keep going.
(05:02):
So it's kind of insane, becauseI did.
Of course, we all did K-8.
Then I did high school, then Iwent right into college and
right after college I went rightinto my master's and after my
master's I went right into mydoctorate.
Yes, you did, yes, you did.
And so I was 31 or 32 when I gotmy doctorate, which was pretty
young.
I didn't really have anychallenges.
(05:27):
I did have a professor try toput up a barrier.
So he told me you're kind ofyoung to be applying for the
doctoral program because I was24.
And I said huh.
And he said we'd really likeyou to have more experience
before you apply for a doctorate.
He was like, plus people yourage bracket seem to be immature.
And so I told him I say, well,look, if you want to deny me
admission, then you do that.
But what is it that you'recalling me for?
(05:48):
He said I want you to withdrawyour application.
Actually, oh, wow.
I said I'm not withdrawing myapplication.
If you're going to deny me,deny me.
He didn't deny me, okay.
Seven years later, when he saton my dissertation committee, he
said I was one of the bestdecisions he had made, accepting
me into the doctoral program,because all the professors
talked about how I showed upmature and how I showed up ready
(06:10):
to learn, and my laughteralways reverberated throughout
the room.
Well, you know we havememorable laughs.
That's true, okay, sure, okay,wow.
So you were how old when youreceived the doctor?
(06:32):
So I got my doctorate in 2010.
So I look, math ain't muchstronger than less than dealing
with money, okay, but I think Iwas 31 or 32, okay, okay, and I
remember that time uh, becauseyou, uh, mom and dad were so
proud, yeah, and they, they saidwe have to throw her a party.
Yeah, because nobody in ourfamily has done this before,
(06:54):
yeah, and so I remember being atthe party and being so proud.
Listen, you know I've neverwanted to do all of that extra
education, but you have sinceyou were a child.
You know you have always been awhat I call an overachiever,
which is not a bad thing, okay,it's just, it's just.
You're always reaching for thenext goal.
Now, since I've been an adult,people have told me that I am an
(07:17):
overachiever as well.
I never knew that about myself,um, but I did.
But I have never been anoverachiever when it comes to
educational things, however.
So from that, were you theyoungest one in your class?
Yes, that year that I graduated, I was the youngest person to
get a doctorate.
(07:37):
Okay, and did you face anyBarriers in those classes With
your, I guess, uh, fellowstudents or professors, or was
it just that one professor?
It was that one at thebeginning.
And if I did encounter barriers,I wouldn't notice them anyway,
because I don't, I don't viewlife like that, I just keep it
(07:59):
moving.
Okay, I keep it moving.
So when you say you don't viewlife like that, what does that
mean?
So I do not see so.
A lot of people see life assuccesses and failures.
I see life as successes andthings you need to learn from
and grow from.
Okay, so for me, anytimesomething happens where it
(08:22):
knocks me off my square, I'mlike okay, okay, pause.
So, first of all, what am Isupposed to see in this moment?
Okay, what am I supposed toexperience in this moment.
And then, most of all, what canI learn from this moment?
Because I don't like repeatinglessons even though often I have
in my life.
I mean we all do when we don'tlearn the first time.
Correct, correct, not a funplace to be in.
(08:49):
Okay, okay, okay.
So if we move from thedoctorate, okay, and we go to.
I know that at one point youwere a teacher.
Yep, so very early in my career.
Yeah, so it doesn't say that inyour bio, but I know that you
were a teacher, I was, and sotell me about that time as a
teacher and then what promptedyou to move from teacher to
(09:13):
administrator?
So you know this, becauseyou're my sister, you know I
move around a lot.
So I started my career as ateacher at a school, and so
we're in Chicago.
So in Englewood Really didn'tlike a school, and so we're in
Chicago.
So in Englewood, really didn'tlike the school.
And so I went to teach at ahigh school that our sister
taught at, and then during thattime I was pregnant and so I
(09:38):
wanted to come out the classroomor at least try to figure out a
different schedule.
But in teaching you reallycan't do a different schedule.
So I quit my teaching job and Ibecame a.
I went to a nonprofit around thecorner from where we lived,
actually in Austin.
Okay, did that for six months.
That was not a great fit.
Got asked to go work at HeroWashington for their dual credit
program and also servicelearning.
(09:58):
So then come, as I'm cominginto the close of that, my old
principal from the high schoolcalled me and invited me back to
teach for him after I hadcalled him.
So I called him and said hey, Ireally would like to come back
to teaching, because at thatpoint I think my son was two or
three and he was like he mighthave been two, and he said you
can come back.
He was like, but I don't have ajob right now.
(10:20):
Well, you know, a few weekslater he had a job.
So he called me back.
He gave me freshmen.
That was not my jam.
Freshmen need a lot ofstructure in order to be
successful for the rest of highschool.
Okay, that wasn't my jam.
So halfway through the year heasked me to take over juniors
because of a maternity leave.
Okay, that was my jam.
Okay.
Okay, you found a sweet spot.
(10:41):
So I taught juniors that summer, and that next year as well.
Test scores went up, okay, andthen I announced to my boss that
I needed to quit again becausemy son at that point was showing
signs of things that I neededto get assessed.
He couldn't work with mebecause, again, teaching is not
flexible.
(11:01):
Yeah, so then I became aninstructional coach of teachers
in four high schools in Chicago,did that really well, did it
for two years.
Then we all got laid off in amassive layoff in 2010 with
Chicago Public Schools, becausethat's just what they like to do
, and I had a newly minteddoctorate, and so you would
think I would be panicked, but Iwasn't, because I was just like
(11:23):
it's going to be what it'sgoing to be, I'll get a job at
some point.
Okay, I ended up becoming anassistant principal in our
community that we grew up in,because the principal got my
resume from two people who knewher and from me applying.
She interviewed 49 people, or48 people, and she said, when I
(11:45):
saw your resume, I was like Igot to, like I gotta meet her.
Well, at the time I had likethis funky fro.
That was uneven, I needed apedicure, all kind of stuff, but
I went into the interview withthe best I could, but she was
impressed by my intellect and soI got hired okay, work with her
for a year.
She actually I learned a lotfrom her.
Her name is Dr Jasmine BakedOkay, and then, after that year,
(12:06):
our school was closing, so Igot laid off again, and I didn't
panic because three weeks latershe asked me did I want to lead
a school on the west side thathad two campuses?
And I was like, say what?
So I did that, went to leadthat school for two years.
No, for three years, okay.
At the end of the third year,though, I had some philosophical
(12:28):
differences with the managementcompany.
Okay, and I have no shametalking about this, because
there were 12 principals intheir portfolio at that point
and nine or ten of us resignedWow.
So I knew that my philosophicaldifferences we all probably had
them, and so people walked awayand I took a few months off
like six months, because I wasat that point to have my
(12:50):
daughter and then got theopportunity to work at a
university as an assistantdirector of a teacher-rear
program, and I liked that job,but I didn't love it because I
had to travel downstate in orderto sometimes do the work I
needed to do, okay.
Plus, it moved kind of slow andin K-12, things move a little
faster than they do in higher edand you definitely need things
(13:12):
to keep going.
I need things to keep moving Tokeep your attention.
Yeah, so about nine months in,I get a call from a school I had
interviewed at the prior year.
It was an all-girls high schooland I it was an all-girls high
school and I was asked to comeand lead that school.
Okay, so I remember walking tothe interview.
It was like 12 or 13 people Iinterviewed with and while they
interviewed me, I alsointerviewed them.
Mm-hmm, because at that point,my job was, even though it was
(13:36):
kind of not challenging, it alsowasn't stressful, which was
different for me, and so I waslike I'm not trying to go back
into stress.
Well, I did.
I took that job.
The job taught me a lot becauseI was a single site charter.
I closed that school in 2019.
A single site charter Explainthat.
What does that mean?
So it was a charter schoolwhere it was the only one, so we
(13:57):
had to do everything on site.
So, like when you work in aschool district, there's a
district office that handlescurriculum and payroll and
teacher development and all thatstuff.
When you're a single siteschool, all that stuff falls on
me as the principal, so I reallyfunction as an executive
director.
Oh, wow, I learned how tofundraise in a job.
I got media trained in a job.
(14:18):
I learned how to do videos inthat job Okay, it was a lot of
things.
I never realized that.
That's why you were doing allof those things.
Yes, because it was asingle-type charter and,
although I had a team, I stillhad to be able to lead that team
, okay.
So then in 2019, when thatschool closed, I made a deal
with another charter school inthe area.
I had 135 girls at that point.
(14:41):
The new school took 110 or 120of those girls Okay.
And I had 35 staff at thatpoint and the new school took
about 15 to 20 of those staffsOkay.
So I felt like I had done myjob, okay.
Like, okay, I have closed theschool will.
Everybody has found a softplace to land, mm-hmm.
And then I had about five or sixdifferent jobs I could have had
(15:04):
, and I chose a job in the SouthSuburbs, where I'm at now, at a
Christian nonprofit where weserve people with developmental
disabilities.
Wow, wow.
That is a journey that iseclectic.
I mean, you've done a littlebit of this, a little bit of
that, some more of this, alittle bit more of that, but
(15:28):
it's all culminated to thisplace where you're in now, yep.
And so my next question wouldbe with all of the steps along
the way, with all of the stepsalong the way, how did you
(15:52):
choose the next spot?
It sounds like a lot of theplaces chose you.
Yes, like you weren't evenreally looking for things all
the time.
I would say that's true.
It's a mixture.
It's a mixture of sometimes Ihad to apply interview, like
that job at the university, andsometimes, like my last job, I
got a call.
I would say it's all divine.
(16:13):
So I'm not one of those peoplethat say, oh, it's serendipitous
, my life is not serendipitous.
My life is order by the Lord,and I'm sure of that, okay.
My life is order by the Lord,and I'm sure of that, okay, okay
.
So have there been any timesthroughout the journey in your
career where you were like I'drather not do that, but you did
(16:37):
it anyway because you knew thatthat was what you were supposed
to do?
I got to think about that to do.
I got to think about that.
Honestly, the one job I did notenjoy was being a teacher.
Believe it or not, out of allthe things, out of all the
(16:58):
things I did not enjoy being ateacher, because when you teach
high school and people alwaystalk about, oh, teachers get all
this time off, but they don'tknow the load that teachers
carry, particularly English andmath teachers.
Okay, so we have to teach ourfive classes.
In the city, you have anywherefrom 25 to 30 kids.
When you're an English teacher,you have to give out essays and
stuff, because the childrenhave to know how to write.
You got to do presentations.
(17:19):
They got to know how to speak.
You need to do readings and youneed to do discussions.
They need to do readings andyou need to do discussions.
They need to know how todiscuss different things.
Then, on top of all that,you're planning lessons, grading
papers.
I also did after to be able toreally just impact the student.
(17:57):
Yes, ok, so I thought I'msitting here and I was going
back and forth and I was goingto bring this up, but it's just
a kind of a laughing momentreally, because you said, out of
all the jobs you did not enjoybeing a teacher.
I did not.
And I go back to when we werechildren and we used to play
school, school, yeah, and youalways had to be the principal,
yeah.
And whenever I would beg andbeg me like I want, I didn't
want to be principal this time.
(18:17):
I want to be the principal thistime.
I don't want to be a teacher, Iwant to.
I want to be principal thistime.
It was rare.
And then you'd finally relentand let me be the principal, but
you just would not act.
Right, but now?
But now I know that you justdidn't want to be a teacher.
And that's the funny thing.
People say I'm a great teacher.
When I run the conformerstudents, they say I was a
(18:40):
wonderful teacher.
Okay, but I did.
I did not love teaching, okay,okay.
So let's talk about there'steaching in the secular, and
then your bio talks aboutteaching in the sacred.
Yes, and so tell me aboutteaching, your journey in
teaching in the sacred.
That's so interesting.
(19:00):
So I knew it was always in uswell, in me and you, because our
mom is a both secular andsacred teacher.
So mom was a retired teacher,but she also taught Bible class.
Well, she still teaches Bibleclass.
What am I talking about?
Absolutely, I think I want tosay you and I first started
teaching at the church.
We grew up in youth church.
(19:21):
Yes, we didn't call it youthchurch then, I think it was just
youth sunday school, whateverit was.
Youth sunday teachers wouldallow us to kind of provide
lessons and so, but I didn'treally do anything with that
until I got to the not thechurch I'm in now, but my
previous church okay.
When I was asked to get be overthe new members class, okay, and
be in christian education, okay.
(19:42):
So I didn't mind it.
But the lady who was over it,sister Londa Brewer-Baker, love
her, but also because she istough, she knows her Bible back
and forth Okay, and she wantsyou to know your Bible back and
forth Okay.
She wants you to knowhermeneutics, homiletics,
esagices, yada, yada, yada, allthose things, all those things
(20:05):
that were new to me when I gotto that church.
And then she was giving usexams and giving us homework.
Okay, I didn't always cooperateI'm not going to lie Because
typically I had a full-time joband a family and so sometimes I
would do the homework andsometimes I wouldn't, but when I
would do the homework,particularly when we did it as a
group, we always did prettywell, okay.
But I was asked to teach a newmembers class in my last church
(20:27):
because the young lady wanted toresign.
All right, and the minister,elder Larry Long.
He said God told me you'resupposed to be the new members
class leader.
And I was like that's nice.
And so he circled back to me,said it-huh, and I was like
that's nice.
And then the lady who was overthe class said didn't elder long
(20:49):
tell you that?
God told him.
And so I have this theory thatwhen god sends something to me
three times, okay, I need to doit.
So the second time I heard it,I knew I was gonna end up having
to do it, but I'm stubborn.
And so when I got the thirdrequest, I went to my pastor and
asked him could I flip the newmembers class?
Because I had gone through thenew members class and I didn't
(21:10):
enjoy it.
Okay, and he was like,basically, what gives you the
right and the?
He didn't say it that way, butit was kind of like who are you
to want to change the class?
What qualifies you?
Because he didn't know at thetime.
Okay, my credentials, myexperience.
Once I flipped the curriculum,he was like whoa, what has come
(21:30):
from?
I was like from me and theBible and Jesus.
And so I taught that classuntil I left that church.
And they still want tounderstand.
Teach that class almost in theway that I left it Okay, wow.
And teach that class almost inthe way that I left it Okay, wow
.
So it sounds like your pressinghasn't necessarily been in the
(21:51):
secular teaching.
It sounds like your pressinghas come from the sacred
teaching yeah, it has.
So what have some of those?
If we had a window into yourworld and your talks with God,
(22:15):
what are some of thoseconversations like when God is
pressing you to do a thing thatyou don't necessarily really
want to do?
So I had this happen earlierthis year.
Okay.
So earlier this year my husbandwas driving and he was like I
think I need to send my wifeaway.
Well, I was already thinkingabout taking a sabbatical.
Okay, and the sabbaticalmeaning that I need to time to
write and do some other thingswithout the interruption of him
(22:38):
and my daughter.
I love them, but I needuninterrupted time.
He comes home, he says, bae, hesays I want to send you on
sabbatical and I said, okay, andso I go on sabbatical and
typically when I go onsabbatical because I try to go
once a year I try to make surein my hotel room the TV is off,
okay, that I have my journal,that I have my, that I have my.
(23:01):
I don't use my physical Bibleas much anymore, but I take my
iPad because I like BibleGateway.
Okay, because I like NIV, nlt,message you need those all the
different translations, yeah.
And then also I have found aBible dictionary online and also
a concordance, okay, and so allthose things.
So the way God talks to mereally is, the older I get is
(23:25):
through scripture, and sometimesit's through confirmation,
through other people.
Ok, so if somebody calls mewith a message from God and I
haven't heard it yet, I don'tdiscount it.
I just write it down, ok, untilit manifests.
So I told you the long storybecause we talked about me being
a lifelong learner.
So I'm currently a recipient ofa Duke Reflective Leadership
Grant.
Okay, how did that happen?
(23:46):
So I was in an executivecoaching group and one of the
guys sent me an email and saidhey, dr V, I think you should
apply for this.
And I deleted it.
And while I was on sabbatical aLinkedIn post came out about
the Duke Reflective LeadershipGrant.
Wow, and I was like so I pulledthe application up, but I saw
(24:08):
that it was multi-layered andevery question they wanted 1,500
words.
Okay, and I was like no thanks.
But while I was on sabbatical Istarted doing the application
anyway.
Okay, because then when I gotback home I saw something else
about Duke and I was like, fine,god, I will apply.
(24:28):
So he keeps, just God keepsnudging me and typically by
nudge two I'm submitted.
Well, no, let me not laugh.
By nudge two, I am ready to besubmitted.
Nudge three is when I getsubmitted, but nudge one, I
always say no thanks, or youknow my phrase not interested,
(24:55):
yes, yes.
So I would say that's how godtalks to me.
It's through scripture, okay,and sometimes through
confirmation of other people,though.
Sometimes go to the nature.
Do I hear God in nature?
No, but I can hear thestillness and I need to get real
still sometimes because mybrain is going to mat, limit it.
I mean what the Bible tells usbe still and know that I'm God.
(25:16):
So he wants us to be still sothat we can hear Him clearly.
Yes, that's a very importantthing to be still, so that we
can hear him clearly.
Yes, you know, that's it.
That's a very important thingto be able to do.
Today's episode is brought toyou by destiny film and media.
Go to destiny fam onecom forall your media needs.
(25:36):
Destiny film and media, yourdestiny through film and media.
So we've talked about yourcareer in the natural.
We've talked about the teachingportion in the spiritual.
So your bio also talks abouthow you've written a book, yep,
(25:59):
and so I want to talk a littlebit about this book and how you
like.
What was the inspiration for thebook and how did that all come
about?
So in 2020, when we had thepandemic.
So I really get irritated whenpeople talk about the pandemic.
Most people talk about it in anegative way, like it was a
rough time, I had a littledepression, whatever, and I'm
(26:20):
not saying that wasn't true forsome people.
That's not how my life works.
So when the right before thepandemic happened, I heard God
clearly say the curriculum thatyou did at your old church, you
need to flip it into a book, andI was like that's nice, wait a
minute, wait a minute.
So let's put a pin right there,okay.
So what you didn't want to do,the class that you didn't want
(26:45):
to teach, correct, the classthat God had to tell you three
times Correct this is whatyou're going to do, correct.
And then he gave you a roadmapto flip the class as you say Yep
To to, to make it even betterthan it was.
Then God took that very thingthat you didn't want to do
Correct, and then gave you abook.
(27:06):
That's what he said wow.
So he said take the curriculumfrom your old church, write a
book.
I was like nope, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
So so you had already had thecurriculum written.
It was I had a teacher manualand a student manual, 10 lessons
each.
That you had already had thecurriculum written.
(27:26):
It was I had a teacher manualand a student manual, 10 lessons
each.
That you had already written.
It was done.
And you said no when he saidput it in a book.
I did, because I was just likeI'm in my mind and this is
what's funny.
So I recently this is a sidebar, so get me back on track after
this story Okay, recently I wentto our parents' house and I
went to the basement and I foundthree plaques.
(27:48):
I won an essay contest in eighthgrade.
I won an essay contest in highschool and I won an essay
contest in college.
Wow, eighth grade year, twelfthgrade year, senior year of
college.
And I sat there for a momentabout a month ago when I was in
the basement and I was like Godwas just taking me back to what
had already been started at 12and 13 years old.
(28:11):
You're a writer, I'm a writer,so I say no, but because we're
in the pandemic and you wenthome and I'm trying to half
homeschool my daughter which wasa disaster and also trying to
work, because once again, youdon't like teaching, I don't
like to teach.
And also trying to work,because once again, you don't
like teaching, I don't like toteach.
And then trying to also do myjob and learn Zoom and
(28:34):
conference calls and all that,like we all were, yes.
And then God is like and whentime slows down, you need to be
writing some introductions andstuff for this book.
Well, first of all, I didn'teven know where to start, but we
all have the internet, right?
Yes?
So then I Google't even knowwhere to start, but we all have
the internet, right, yes?
So then I Google.
I know I Googled like parts ofa book, okay.
And then I started I have abunch of books in the basement.
(28:55):
So then I pull a bunch of booksout the basement, mm-hmm,
spread these books out, start tolook them over and I'm like,
fine, I will write this book,take this curriculum and write
this book.
And I really didn't have towrite it.
It literally only needed like atable of contents and an
introductory chapter andappendix.
And then I added because myhusband read my book and said
this book is missing something.
(29:16):
I just don't know what.
It is Okay.
And so we started talking aboutwhat it means to go to church.
So then I wrote a chapter onchurch etiquette, like what do
you do when you're not feelingwell?
How do you know how to choose aseat?
How do you do when you're notfeeling well?
How do you know how to choose aseat?
How do you know when you how todress those kind of things?
(29:38):
Because when people get saved,we assume that they're going to
come into church and knowexactly what to do, and that's
not truthful.
They need to be taught.
But also, why can't I give thema cheat sheet?
So back on track about thisbook.
So I write this book and we goon vacation that next summer,
even though it's in a pandemic.
In the meantime, I was like God,how am I supposed to publish
(29:59):
this book?
Am I supposed to self-publish?
Because at this time, I hadlearned it was three different
ways to publish a bookSelf-publish, hybrid publish,
traditional publish.
Self-publish is you doeverything yourself, you use
your own money, you go on Fiverror something like that and you
figure it out.
Hybrid publishing is you paythe company to do everything for
you, but you still own therights to your book.
(30:20):
Okay.
Traditional publishing isyou're trying to put together a
book proposal in order for apublisher to agree to publish
you.
Mm-hmm.
But every publisher typicallywants you to be able to write
three books, so they're notgoing to say yes most times to
your first book, unless theybelieve that you'll be able to
write two more books, becausethey want a two to three book
series.
Okay.
So after I learned all that, Idecided to go hybrid publishing
(30:43):
because we had pretty goodsavings and so I made an
investment.
Okay, book comes out inFebruary 2022.
Didn't know then what I know now.
I get on Facebook the yearprior because you know I had
been anti-Facebook yes, you hadbeen anti-social media,
everything.
So I got on Facebook that fall,because I was like, well, I'm
going to have a book to put out.
(31:04):
And that fall is when my firstarticle got published my
Educational Family Vacations.
Do you remember that?
Oh, yes, I do.
Okay.
So once that gets published, Ihear God clearly say that got
published.
The book is coming out inFebruary.
Okay, you can write.
So put this book out Now.
(31:26):
To date, I've only sold 200copies.
Let's know.
No, no, know, no, no, no, no.
That's not how we say that.
Okay, how do we say?
We say that to date, we've sold200 copies.
And counting and counting, comeon, that's how we say.
That's how we say that then,because there's not an only
because, listen, selling onebook is success, right, but when
(31:47):
I went to a writer's conferencethis summer, they said the
average author only sells 250books over their lifetime.
So I know I'm doing pretty good.
So in what a year?
No, the book has been out inFebruary to be three years, okay
, so in three years you've soldalmost 200 copies.
Okay, listen, your lifetime ismuch longer I mean yeah Than
(32:10):
three years.
I mean that just means that thepeople have not heard about you
yet.
They haven't, and so let metell people what the book is
about.
Yes, please.
So the book is for new membersor new Christians?
When I wrote the book I wantedfor new members, but it really
is for new Christians.
And the topics that the bookdiscusses, besides church
etiquette, is salvation, theGodhead, which is Father, son
(32:36):
and Holy Spirit.
A lot of people call it theTrinity.
The word Trinity is not in theword.
Stick to the word, which isGodhead, tithes and offering,
praise and worship spiritualgifts, and I'm missing a couple
right now because I'm blankingon it.
But each lesson is set up thesame way An introduction, the
materials you need, thequestions that you need to ask
as a teacher in particular, andthen the students have like a
(33:01):
student manual where they cantake notes, and I've put in a
lot of them in like charts andgraphs and stuff, so that they
can take notes.
The book is in one.
It really should be two, butyou know when I use my hybrid
publisher, I didn't have aninfinite amount of money, so at
some point I will be republishedAmen, hallelujah and it will be
two books, like it's supposedto be, and I believe that this
book will be good, not just forUS churches but any church,
(33:22):
because I actually had a Baptistperson, a Methodist person, a
Catholic person read the bookprior to publishing to make sure
that it met the needs ofeverybody.
The only lesson that peopledisagreed on was the tithes and
offering.
Everything else everybody wasokay with.
Okay, wow, that's pretty major.
Yeah, that's pretty.
(33:43):
It sounds like people should goout and get the book.
Shame on me, because I have thebook right upstairs and I did
not bring it down here.
We'll fix that, don't you worry, we'll fix that.
We'll make sure that we plugthe book so people know where
they can get the book and I'lljust show them the book and all
the things.
Okay, so now we've talked aboutthe book.
(34:04):
Are there any more books comingout of you?
You know what's interesting?
So right now I am writing mysecond book.
I got my little feelings hurtthis summer at a writer's
conference.
Why do you say that the bookthat I wanted to write that I'm
still writing, but it has adifferent twist is about being
the pioneer and trailblazer inquite a few things in our family
(34:27):
.
But what a literary agent toldme when I met with her is that a
lot of times, people of colorare pioneers and trailblazers.
She was like so your experienceis not that special?
She was like you have to figureout.
What can people learn from yourexperience?
Correct, how can you make itmore as a, as a you know, like
an educational, teachable moment?
Well, even before getting yourdoctorate, you were also the
(34:52):
first person in our family thatwe know about to study abroad.
Yeah, so you were out theredoing a lot of things that were
different, not only for ourfamily, but for the people that
were around us on the west sideof Chicago.
That's one of the chapters inthe book actually is about being
(35:12):
.
That's why it's pioneering andtrailblazing Studying abroad,
joining a board of directors,getting a doctorate, having
neurodivergent children the listgoes on.
It's a lot of first pioneeringand trailblazing that the Lord
continues to do.
And how does that make you feel?
(35:33):
I'm not going to lie to you.
I get pretty upset with God,because in my mind, I'm always
like for example, at my job, Iwas the first person of color
hired in the executive team whenI got hired in 2019.
Now, this organization at thattime was 70 years old.
You said 70?
At that time it was, theorganization was 70 years old
and I was the first person ofcolor hired in the executive
(35:55):
team Wow.
So when that kind of stuffhappens, I'm looking at God and
I'm going, and you know, wealways ask the why me?
And I do it too.
I'm like God.
Why me?
And the scripture that God gaveme for my leadership back in
2010, when I first became anassistant principal.
It's on every wall and everyjob I've had Joshua, chapter one
(36:16):
, verse 10.
Every place of the sole of myfeet shall tread upon.
That have I given unto you, asI said unto Moses.
And what he makes me say isevery place that I have given
unto you.
You, vanessa, you're supposedto be a change agent.
You're supposed to push back onstatus quo and you're supposed
to kill sacred cows.
Wow, that is hard to do, but Ihave done it just about in every
(36:41):
organization that I have led in.
Wow, because organizations arebetter typically when I leave
them, he goes.
A great example I told you aboutthat charter management company
where, you know, 10 years ago,I quit that job with 12 of the
principals.
At this point, my old school isthe only school that's still
standing in their portfolio.
(37:01):
What do you mean by that?
They had 12 schools at the time.
They now only have one, and theonly school that they have is
the school that I led.
Wow, so that lets me know thatwhat I did and what some
previous principals did and whatsome principals did after me we
were all able to build uponeach other, got it, and so I'm
(37:23):
pretty stoked about that.
I'm sad now because I actuallylearned that they're closing,
but that's because they lost areally good principal, so they
had a bad one after me and thenthey got a really good one right
after that one and he decidedhe didn't want to be bothered
either after eight years andthat's when the school started
to struggle.
But that school probably wouldhave stayed open a long time and
because it was some goodfoundation there, wow, wow, okay
(37:50):
, okay, we are pressing him toall kind of purpose here.
Um, so I, if you don't want totalk about this, we don't have
to, okay, but I'm going to ask aquestion because you, you, you,
you brought it up, okay, and,uh, you used, I believe, was
neurodivergent, yes, children,yes, can you explain what that
(38:14):
means?
Yes, so 20-something years ago,when my son got diagnosed.
We would say and we still sayit that a child has disabilities
, okay, but if your children arehigh-functioning, you really
shouldn't phrase it asdisabilities.
You should phrase it asneurodivergent, because that
means their brain worksdifferent, okay, okay.
So I have a son who's on thespectrum Okay, even though right
(38:36):
now he's flourishing in college.
But he still has issues, though, with perspective taking.
That will probably be lifelongand that's okay because he is
uniquely made the way he is.
I also have a daughter who hasADHD.
She is energetic from the timeshe gets up until the time she
goes to sleep.
There is no kindness whatsoever,and so I don't.
(38:57):
I love my children Absolutely,but I have looked at God and I'm
like you gave my other twosisters these normal kids.
I mean normal, normal in termsof like.
My kids have had a lot oftherapies and IEPs and supports
and had me running around thecity where really I found UIC
(39:19):
was a safe place, in order toknow how to support them, and
that's, that's a.
It's a lot, but I was capableof doing it because I had been
an educator, but that doesn'tmean I wanted to do it.
So, once again, here we are,here you go.
You're about to make this thing.
I hear you, here we go.
I mean the thing that youdidn't want to do right, correct
(39:43):
you.
God used that very thing thatyou didn't want to do to equip
you to do, to walk in theadministrative space Yep and the
leadership space, and he alsotook what you learned in the
(40:06):
secular to be able to help youin your home Correct, with your
own children.
Correct.
And I've helped other people'skids though too.
You know, sometimes you and myother sisters or friends call me
Absolutely so I can help otherpeople's resources, because it's
devastating when you get adiagnosis about your kid but you
can't again.
(40:26):
You can't say your kid willfail.
You have to say what is successgoing to look like for that
child?
Say that again for the peoplein the back.
When you get a diagnosis for achild, whatever it is, you
cannot say it's a failure ofwhat your child can't do.
(40:47):
You have to figure out whatwill success look like for that
child.
And that's what you just saidfor me has become a part of just
my everyday life when it comesto success, because success
looks different for everybody.
It does.
It really looks different foreverybody it does.
Growing up, I thought thatsuccess was you know, you got
(41:09):
the big house, you making acertain salary, you living in a
certain place and you making acertain amount of money.
And that's what.
That's what I thought successwas, because that's the quote,
unquote American dream, right.
As I've gotten older, I'verealized that it's.
It's not the American dream foreveryone.
Correct, because everybodydoesn't want to own a home.
(41:29):
Correct, everybody doesn't wantto make a million dollars a
year and everybody doesn't wantto Does it.
Every everybody's definition ofsuccess looks different, right,
so for so, for me, success isbeing able to take care of my
family.
Success is being able to takecare of my family, and it does
(41:51):
include, you know, living acertain way, okay, which
includes being in certainneighborhoods and, you know,
with certain amenities and thosethings.
But then also, for me, it'sabout being able to travel and
being able to just livecomfortably.
So I'm going to shift you alittle bit, because this week I
(42:12):
was in executive education, okay, and my professor, andrew Sykes
, shout out to him.
He talked about how every humanwants to be able to make a
meaning out of their lives, andI think that that's what you're
talking about, is, success isnot all the material, consumer
stuff, but it's more about whatis your mind, spirit and soul
(42:33):
saying about how you want tomake meaning of life or, to your
point, live it on purpose.
Yeah, okay, I like thatphrasing how to make meaning out
of life, how to make meaningout of your life, because I
can't always say that successwas me living on purpose.
(42:54):
I can't say that that was mytruth.
Okay, it is becoming my truth.
Okay, but when I was youngerand I would venture to say even
like my, my definition ofsuccess has even shifted in the
last five years okay, because itreally was, it was about doing.
(43:15):
It was about doing things forGod, which for me meant really
not just my fellow man, butmostly at church.
That's what it meant for me.
And so now it's shifting overthe past five years where it's
more of impacting my fellow man,got it and realizing that God
(43:41):
placed me on earth to be life,light and encouragement to
people.
Although I've known that for awhile, I've never really thought
about centering everything thatI do around those principles.
So what would you say your?
(44:02):
What would you say?
You are placed, you've beenplaced on earth to do Joshua 1,
1 to him, which is Every placeis the soul of a butcher treader
boy.
That have I given unto you.
As I said unto Moses, god sendsme places, whether it is church
or work or whatever, to be achange agent, push back against
(44:23):
the status quo, kill sacred cowsIn secular spaces.
It has been too, and this issomething that people don't
always love about me.
I have a standard of excellence.
That's what I believe.
That god sends me into placesto do to be a change agent and
give people a standard.
Okay, because oftentimes peoplethink they have a standard.
(44:44):
They don't.
They have a.
I'm good.
For most.
It is as Professor Andrew Sykessaid this week.
He called it you get to acertain point and you learn it
and you're like I'm good and youdon't want to really challenge
yourself to learn anything more.
People get comfortable or theyjust get satisfied with where
(45:11):
they're at and that's okay Notme.
So that is something that wehave in common and maybe it's in
our DNA.
Okay, because it's verychallenging.
I feel like every time I set agoal, whether it's a personal
goal or God-given goal everytime a goal is set and then I
(45:33):
achieve that goal, I'm lookingfor the next thing, right?
Not everybody and I know you dothe same thing I do, but not,
I'm learning.
Not everybody does that.
No, because some people, whenthey get their lives to a
certain point, they're good andthere's nothing wrong with that
Not at all.
I'm learning, though, thatthere is nothing wrong with that
, correct, because for me,correct, correct for me back in
(45:56):
2010, if you had to ask me whatsuccess looked like, I would
have told you my doctorate, andI still believe that, because
this is something the doctoratehas done that I don't think
people give enough credit to.
When you have masters anddoctors and even bachelors,
college degrees give youopportunity and access, just
like the trades, and so I don'twant to knock on that, because I
(46:17):
may have a college degree, butI still need that mechanic and I
still need that carpenter,absolutely so college degrees
and trades give you opportunityand access, not just for you,
but also for those who arecoming behind you, your family,
those in your sphere ofinfluence, whatever they may be.
I love that you highlightedit's not just about the college,
but it's also about the tradeshow much the the you get paid as
(46:38):
a union uh, laborer?
Uh.
Cement mason yes, uh.
Electrician plumber, uh, uh,iron worker yes, all the
(46:59):
different trades you with onceyou finish your apprenticeship
program, you are easily makinganywhere between 90 and well
into the six figures.
And that's why I get irritatedwhen people feel like and I feel
like in america we've done thisand we shouldn't have, we've
made the college degree thepinnacle, when really it's about
what does success look like foryou?
(47:22):
For you, because so I, so Iwent to a technical high school
and at the time we had tradeclasses, like they had the auto
shop, wood shop, print shop, allthe different shops, and those
things were important and we hadboard drafting, which is what
(47:44):
made me realize that I wanted tobe you know, to be an architect
, that I wanted to be, you know,to be an architect.
And now a lot of those, a lot ofschools don't have that in the
Chicagoland area, which to me isa kind of it's a sad state of
affairs, not that there aren'tstill some schools that do have
the programs, but I don't thinkthat there are enough of them,
(48:04):
because we, to your point, westill need the people who want
to work with their hands yes,and some people are just born to
work with their hands, yes, andthey're favored and graced to
do it.
And we also still need thepeople too.
Let me add this my soundstrength is coming from somebody
with a doctorate.
We also need people who justfinished high school to do some
(48:27):
of the jobs that we think aremenial but really you would
notice if they weren't done.
Listen, you need the securityofficer Absolutely.
You need the custodianAbsolutely.
You need the administrativeassistant Absolutely, because
when people have big roles andthey don't have some of the
other roles that are entry levelor mid-level, you notice it.
You notice that gap, yes, thatlack.
(48:52):
And I've gotten like this, theolder I've gotten, because it
really irritates me that peoplereally and downplay yes, they
downplay all their careers, yes,certain certain careers,
certain, uh, uh, quote-unquotestatuses of life, in life.
And we need everybody.
We need everybody because if we, because if we have no one to
(49:12):
pick up the garbage, then thecity is overrun, exactly, the
city is overrun with trash androdents.
Correct, you see what I'msaying?
Correct, if we have no one todrive the bus or the train, then
a lot of people are not gettingto the jobs that they need to.
Yeah, exactly, and our parents,our mother specifically, she
(49:33):
stressed to us you treateverybody with respect.
Yes, from the CEO, yes To thejanitor.
Yes, you treat everyone withwith the utmost respect, because
everybody matters.
And I lost that for a littlewhile.
I did and I had to get back toit matters.
And I lost that for a littlewhile.
I did and I had to get back toit.
Well, welcome back.
Yeah, yeah, I lost that for alittle while because it was like
(49:54):
, oh, I'm getting a doctorate,and then I just I remember when
I became a assistant principal.
That's when I realized, like,wait, all these other roles
don't just as important just asmy doctorate and being an
assistant principal?
Absolutely.
That's when I changed my tune,because who are you leading if
there's no one to follow?
Bingo, you know.
And how is vision carried out ifthere are no hands and feet?
(50:19):
Correct, you know, you need thevisionary, but you also need
the people to carry out thevision.
Correct.
And there is no shame in anyposition.
In any position, because allpositions are necessary, they
all matter, all of them.
That ain't even what we'resupposed to be talking about.
But look, that was a good, thatwas a good side note, just some
information that you need toknow.
Um.
So, as we kind of wrap up theconversation, okay, I want to.
(50:43):
I would like for you to talk tothe person that is looking or
seeking purpose, who doesn'treally know what their purpose
is.
What advice would you give orwhat steps would you give to
(51:04):
that person that is looking fortheir purpose or is afraid to
step out on it?
So I'm going to be practicalfirst.
So in high school or even incollege, you should have taken
some kind of career interestinventory, okay, so that you can
know the kind of jobs that youwill be, that you will be
interested in.
A lot of times, when you missthat, that just real basic step,
(51:27):
you end up doing a whole lot ofstuff that maybe you wasn't
purposed for.
But then we'll have to gospiritual, okay.
So then we have to seek the God, the Father, and say God, what
is it I'm supposed to do?
And a lot of people wait for anaudible voice for him to say it
.
But lots of times it will justshow up in things that you're
(51:48):
good at or things that peopleacknowledge and say you know,
has anybody ever told you?
And that's how sometimes youcan try to figure out at the
beginning, what your purpose is.
If you're further along in lifeand you're trying to shift, then
you're going to have to sitback down and say, ok, these are
the things that I've done.
(52:08):
What is it now that God iscalling me to, where some of
this will have a remnant of that, but it may be something
totally different.
You're kind of an example ofthat.
Right, you're in constructionmanagement, but this podcast is
what the spiritual side of youis supposed to be doing.
It's to help press people intotheir purpose, and so I guess my
encouragement will be in thenatural take a career interest
(52:31):
inventory, no matter what ageyou are.
You can find it on any Google.
It get you, do one.
Spiritually.
If you're a Christian, pleasesit down and pray and ask God
for guidance.
And then somebody in theaudience may say I'm not
faith-based, fine, so sit downsomewhere and listen to your gut
.
People say don't trust your gut, but a lot of you all have
(52:54):
instincts and gut that have notlet you on and so trust that I'm
right here.
So get, uh, do it and do aninventory, inventory or
assessment.
Sit with God and simply ask,yes, yes, and trust your gut,
okay, all right.
Well, I think that thisconversation has been.
(53:17):
It has blessed me and I knowthat if it's blessed me, that it
is blessed some of you that arelistening out there today.
So I want to say thank you, drV, for stopping by the Preston's
Purpose podcast, and Iappreciate your insight, I
appreciate your willingness toshare your story and I just
(53:37):
appreciate you being a greatsister and friend.
So thank you so much.
I appreciate you and I love youand until next time, this is
Preston's Purpose and we'll seeyou next time.
Today's episode is brought toyou by Destiny Film and Media.
Go to destinyfam1.com for allyour media needs.
(53:59):
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
You.
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