July 29, 2025 • 55 mins
Reverend AA Cleveland II shares his remarkable journey from church musician to ministry leader and corporate innovator, revealing how God prepares us for purpose through unexpected paths. His story demonstrates how divine calling intersects with marketplace excellence when we remain open to God's leading.
• Growing up as a gifted musician under his mother's rigorous training
• Reluctantly accepting his call to ministry at age 22-23
• Creating an entirely new product division during lunch breaks at his first corporate job
• Transitioning between roles as musician, minister, and business professional
• Learning the importance of understanding people's unique needs in leadership
• Building a ministry that bridges church, education, and business excellence
• Finding divine purpose even through health challenges and difficult decisions
• Recognizing God's presence in our past, present, and future simultaneously
• Embracing personal growth through mentorship and continual learning
• Understanding that gifts and purpose often require intentional development
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Thanks for listening!
Until next time, continue to press into your purpose!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hello, welcome to another episode of Pressed Into
Purpose.
I am your host, valeria Wright.
Let's meet today's guest.
Reverend AA Cleveland II is adynamic leader who seamlessly
bridges ministry, education andbusiness excellence.
As the founder and president ofSalt and Light Ministries and
(00:48):
the Al Cleveland LeadershipAcademy, he has dedicated his
life to equipping others formarketplace success as
ambassadors of Christ.
With over 45 years of ministryexperience, reverend Cleveland
began his calling in 1989 underthe late Bishop GE Patterson in
Memphis, tennessee, and hasserved in various leadership
(01:10):
roles, including associatepastor at New Life Covenant
Southeast Church in Chicago,which serves 30,000 members.
He established his itinerantministry in 2007, ministering to
thousands across America andinternationally 2007,
ministering to thousands acrossamerica and internationally.
Academically, reverend clevelandholds a bachelor of arts in
(01:31):
systematic theology and pastoralcare from northern baptist
seminary trinity internationaluniversity and is currently
pursuing a master's degree insystematic theology.
He founded the al clevelandtraining in 2014, emphasizing
practical application ofbiblical scholarship through
hermeneutics, homiletics andapologetics.
(01:53):
Beyond the pulpit, reverendCleveland brings over 20 years
of professional expertise aspresident and CEO of Hegemon
Consulting LLC, where hespecializes in community
engagement, large-scale eventmanagement and organizational
development.
His work includes developingparent engagement curriculums
(02:14):
for Chicago area schooldistricts and delivering
strategic projects that exceedcommunity goals.
A devoted family man for 38years, reverend Cleveland is
married to Lori and is thefather of three children and
grandfather of two.
His multifaceted approachcombines spiritual calling,
educational innovation andbusiness acumen to create
(02:37):
lasting impact in communitiesacross the nation.
Please help me welcome ReverendAA Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Wow, wow, wow, thank you.
I sound like I know two orthree things, I think you might,
I think you might.
Wow, it's an honor to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am so godly proud of whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You and your husband.
Like I stated earlier, I haveknown you guys since you were
like teenagers.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Facts.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Facts Either you're getting older or I'm that old
dude.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Listen, listen.
We are all maturing togetherthis is.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
This is wonderful, and I believe that the Lord is
really going to use, uh, thisvehicle, uh, uh, and this space
that he's given you to createand to cultivate, to bless a
whole lot of people in thechurch and out of the church.
So, hey, let's get to it, I'mready.
(03:48):
My wife sends her love.
Hey, hey.
And she told me this morning.
She said, boy, you kind of geekto go do this.
She said I don't see you getgeek to do too much, no more.
I said, well, it's just thefact that I have a long
relationship with this coupleand to see how the Lord is using
(04:09):
them.
And so, yeah, absolutely I'mexcited.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well, thank you for being here, thank you for saying
yes.
You know, I'm always delightedand thrilled when I call and I
ask and the answer is yes,because people don't have to say
yes, you know.
So, thank you for your yes.
And going back to let's just,let's just get right on into it.
So we have known each other forlots of years.
(04:37):
And so I met you.
The first time I met you, youwere the organist for the church
that we attended and I was inthe youth choir.
Yes, and listen, you did notplay any games at all.
You didn't play with the people.
You wanted the tempo to beright, you wanted the music to
be right.
(04:57):
There needed to be sitting inthe choir under this, you know,
under this leadership, then youwere going to have to get it
together and learn your part andknow it and know it well, and
not be playing around becauseyou didn't have time for games.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
All of that was birthed out of my mom.
She was what they would callnow an old school choir trainer.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
She was.
I mean, how about this one?
As a young gifted boy, I hadthe ability to play drums at an
early age and sound like a mucholder young man.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So you know, you get to feeling yourself on the drums
and she's directing or teachingand you're not paying attention
to her because all the peopleare like play, little boy,
you're a poker jerk, you betterplay.
And I'm going in and all of asudden here comes a hymnal
flying across.
Oh no, she said, watch me.
And then to come through thelate Dr Maddie Moss Clark who,
(06:12):
when she would come to Memphis,she just deemed me her drummer.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Ok, listen, that's a high honor.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Absolutely, and she loved my mom.
My mom would work with her inthe jurisdiction and then, by
the time I got to high school,the late Dr Lula Hedgman of.
Overton High School, aperforming arts school, and she
made my mother look gentle,right, wow.
So all of that, and I've alwaysrespected music, yeah,
(06:45):
especially.
You know my mom would say shewould use the scripture whatever
you do, do it wholeheartedly asunto the Lord, yeah, and she
used to tell me you ought to behappy that the Lord gave you a
gift.
Come on To bless his people,because you know you dirty and
you ain't saved.
To bless his people, cause youknow you dirty and you ain't
saved, she would say it justlike that Okay, mama, you know
(07:13):
you dirty and you know you ain'tsaved, the least you can do, oh
god, is bless his people andgive him the best.
I said you know what.
You ain't lying, you not lying.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Wait.
So now I got a question, I gota follow up question.
So you grew up in the churchand so you grew up with all of
these great leaders, with all ofthese great people in the
kingdom as your mentors.
And you say your mom was likeyou know, because you know you
(07:52):
ain't saved.
So when did the transformationhappen?
Where it stopped becomingperformance and it became you
know, like real to you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, it has never been performance.
Okay, Okay, Uh.
She taught me and others how totap in, uh to the spirit realm
when you're giving worship.
So I'm never judgmental over aperson's or for a person's
(08:26):
lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
While they're sitting inside their gift Gifts and
callings cometh ETH continuouslywithout repenting.
Right Not the person repentingGod never repents for the gifts
that he's given or will continueto give.
Right gifts that he's given orwill continue to give.
So, being familiar with people,you become too familiar, it
(08:53):
becomes natural.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I didn't, the light bulb didn't go off for me that
Bishop Gilbert Patterson was oneof the greatest leaders that
would probably ever walk theplanet for a minute until I was
in my 20s.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Because my aunt used to do his hair Wow At a beauty
shop.
What you know what I'm saying.
So I'm hanging out at thebeauty shop, wow, and he getting
a pressing curl.
You know what I mean.
This is my pastor.
I love that he getting hookedup Right, wow, pressing curl.
This is my pastor.
(09:30):
He's getting hooked up right,wow.
So all of that, you know when,when, when things are so
familiar.
I will look at everybody elsewho are.
Who are?
What's your problem?
But when the light came on, orwhen I started having my
personal epiphanies, okay, okay,it's like you know what, al,
you really need to start runningtoward a personal relationship
(09:51):
with Christ, yeah, yeah.
Now what is that going to looklike for you, al?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Not what it looked like for my mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
For Bishop Patterson, Dr Clark and all of those
people.
So I had to get on my journey.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So I know we sing.
I looked at my hands and theylooked new.
I looked at my feet, and theydid too.
I looked at my hands theylooked the same.
Okay, they were the same.
I had the same fleshly desires.
Come on, I had to embrace.
Like Negro, you got a stronghuman experience.
(10:31):
You ready to happen here andyou come and kicking and
screaming, but at least the mindset Okay, begin to form.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, okay For me.
And when was that Like yourteenage years?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
No, baby, leave them teenage years alone.
We can never pick them up, notat all.
No, no, twelfth grade was ablur.
I sell through twelfth grade ablur.
I sailed through 12th grade.
You mean you talking aboutsailing every day?
(11:09):
Look at your neighbor and sayevery day, every day was a day
of Thanksgiving.
You hear me Right?
So no, I got married when I was22 years old.
Who, uh-huh and couldn't,nobody tell me I wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Listen okay.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But your first knee jerk hit me about four, five
years later.
Ooh.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Okay, what you doing Okay okay, right, and I was like
wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Okay, and the bills and the babies and the yeah, it
just started rolling.
I need Jesus Because this stuffgot real, this stuff got real
real quick.
It's like boy, you ain't gonnamake it Reverend, no, sir.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
You have tried this thing on your own.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yep, now you out here , you ain't got a boat, paddle,
life jacket, nothing.
You getting ready to sink, doc?
Oh baby.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And you said, father.
I stretched my hands to thee noother help.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I know Because my daddy said I tried to tell you.
My mama said I told you not todo it.
That was the help.
That was the help.
That was the help.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
What's up.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Oh my God, Okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
People don't know all that about me, man.
You know they see me now.
They're like ooh, you talkingabout coming through hard trials
, listen.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And tribulations.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, ma'am, somehow I made it.
All those songs were writtenfor Al Cleveland Jr.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
If it had not been, and the list goes on.
Listen, because the mercy, thegrace and mercy of God.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I misused both of them, abused them, took
advantage of them, rightManipulated them.
Just throw your list out there.
They called my mama, jesus'niece, and I was the spawn of
Satan for a minute.
Oh no, how you put thattogether.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So how did you come to?
So?
You're a preacher, you havewalked in the pastor seat, you
are just a leader in thecommunity, you have your
business and all the differentthings.
What would you say is yourpurpose?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
your purpose.
My purpose is to be, I wouldsay, a beacon, to say that there
are, there's much more in usthan we allow ourselves to
cultivate.
Okay, there was a point in timethat if you had told me 30 plus
(14:09):
years ago that I would be incorporate America, I would have
laughed at you, because Ithought the only thing that I
would ever do forever is dodrums and keyboards.
Wow, because I was just thatgood at it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean you were, you were, listen, listen, I remember
, I remember.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, started playing on records at 19 and on
drums and turning down R&B gigs.
In my own self-righteousness Isaid, well, at least I ain't
doing that.
I should have went on out onthe road.
In my own self-righteousness Isaid, well, at least I ain't
doing that, but I was doingeverything else.
I should have went on out onthe road.
So we don't explore the variousgifts.
(14:55):
So I'm always encouragingothers.
I don't care how old you are.
Ask the Lord yeah, what else isit?
And start putting yourself outthere right to see.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And even if you find that that is not your call, who
knows God would have used you inthat moment to turn the light
on for somebody else.
It moves you on that is true,that is true.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So an encourager and a would you, would you?
The word that comes to mind ispusher.
So, because I see you as apusher of the gospel, a pusher
of people and pushing them topurpose.
Yes, a pusher of people.
Yes, um, and help pushing themto purpose.
Yes, um, what has that lookedlike in the secular space?
(15:50):
Um?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
let me start off by saying I am extremely paulinian
in theology and in practice.
Meaning Paul was a businessmanthat is never really celebrated
because he was such a greatpusher, forwarder of the message
(16:17):
, the gospel of Jesus Christ,through the preached word,
teaching and church planting.
But he also had strong businessacumen.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That is true.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
He connected with Priscilla and Aquila, who
already had their licenses,already had a place, and they
were positioned by theMediterranean Sea trade.
So he was meeting people fromall over the world and he did
not want to be a burden on thesetwo converts, priscilla and
(16:52):
Aquila.
So let me work out of your shopbuilding tents and I'm meeting
people from around the worldintroducing them to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.
Wow, al Cleveland says go tellthese young ones out here, yeah,
I don't care how well you canpreach, how well you can sing,
(17:15):
the Bible tells us to go intothe highways and the hedges and
compel people to come to Christ.
Yeah, that's what I do.
What I do, okay, okay, my planevery day in my mission, even
when I travel.
If you're sitting next to me onthe plane, I'm gonna let you
(17:36):
talk and find out how can Iinsert jesus.
Okay, okay.
If I'm in the lounge chillingand we wind up sitting next to
each other, my mind says God gotyou sitting here next to me,
gotcha, just to check and see.
Do you know him?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Now, he that went up, the soul, is wise.
How do I do that?
Do I go in and say now you sayyou'd be going to hell?
No, move away from me, you acreep right.
No, so you, you have to learnhow to get in there.
Yeah, and I teach that, I teachthat and opportunities have
(18:14):
opened up for me in themarketplace.
Yeah, by presenting christ,okay, wow, I know, it's just
amazing.
Okay, it's amazing, I'm stillthat preacher.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And if you need me to sing sometime.
I'm not a great singer, but Ican hold that note Right?
You want me to play a littlebit?
I don't care.
Okay, the drummer don't show up.
I'll hold it down untilsomebody get here.
Wow, even if I'm the preacher.
Wow, even if I'm the preacherBecause I'm, I'm showing them.
We got to come out of thismindset that you know I'm Mr
(18:49):
Hoof Hoofy.
I miss Hoof Hoofy.
They love it Right, becausethere are younger people
watching us.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I am still in awe of the times that the late
Bishop Gilbert Patterson wouldcome out and get on the organ.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
In the middle of a song, the great Bishop GE Wow.
Or when Bishop Darrell Hinesfrom Milwaukee would.
He would come to preach for usat Progressive, and the drummer
hadn't got there yet.
I'm on the organ.
He'll get on the drums.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Okay, okay, so you've watched and learned and seen a
different type of servantleadership, absolutely so.
Wow, you know, I hadn't reallythought about it like that.
So basically, you're justcontinuing to walk out servant
(19:56):
leadership.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
In the different facets of your life.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Absolutely.
I'm of the persuasion that saysI love the name my mother gave
me.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Because she loved my daddy so much.
I'm going to name my first boyafter this man Like dude, what
you do, boom Right, I got to geta wife and do that Boy.
After this man like dude, whatyou do, boom Right, I got to get
a wife and do that.
So I'm not hooked on titles.
Yeah, because, unfortunatelyfor you, you would be upset if I
(20:34):
showed you my birth certificateand you don't see pastor.
You don't see rim.
You don't see elder.
You don't see apostle you don'tsee elder.
You don't see apostle.
You don't see it doesn't exist.
It don't say that.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's my call Correct In the spirit realm.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yes, so I let people call me what they see.
That's why some call me DrCleveland, okay.
Some call me Bishop Cleveland.
Okay, some call me ApostleCleveland.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Okay.
And the list goes on, but whenI come to the mic God bless you
I'm Al Cleveland.
Okay, okay, okay, all right,listen, because that's the name
your mother gave you.
That's what my mama named me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And I convinced my wife to name my first son.
I know my son convinced hiswife to name his son.
This thing ain't working for me.
You gonna stick with it.
I'm gonna stick with it.
Y'all need to follow me.
I'm telling you it works.
Be okay with who you are andwalk in your call.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now, how did you get to the place where you were okay
with who you were and walkingin your call Like when did you
even accept the call.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Now, that's a great story.
Okay, I accepted it as a way soI can get some sleep, not to
actually do it.
I just.
I just said yes, lord, thatwill you leave me alone.
Y'all want the truth, or youwant me to make it?
We want the truth.
The people need the truth.
I need to go to bed.
(22:05):
I was 22, 23 years old, can'trest and I'm hearing sounds.
Just tell me yes, okay, yes,yes, I'll preach One time my
child's sermon and I'm done.
I said yes, right, one time.
(22:27):
One time I was cool.
One time, 45 years later, 45years ago right, wow I didn't, I
wouldn't run it.
Running towards this I've alwaysknown, but I'm just like how
long can I push this?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
off Because you knew what came with the call
Absolutely and you didn't takeit lightly.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely yeah, even after telling the Lord.
Yes, I knew my life was stillkind of raggedy.
I gotta clean this up and cleanthat up.
Wait, that's too much.
Yes, I knew my life was stillkind of raggedy.
I got to clean this up andclean that up.
Wait, that's too much.
That's too much work in this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes, Listen that, yes , had you out there.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That, yes, had you out there, your flesh was like
don't do it.
Yes, said now you know he'sgoing.
He's like see, this is why Ididn't want to talk to you in
the first place exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
This is why I didn't want to do this, because you're
gonna be ever present.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Ain't nothing like trying to do wrong and you hear
right.
Talking to me, said some ofthese other folk.
They ain't got this problem,they just do wrong, that's true.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And keep it moving, that's true.
And don't think.
Don't think nothing else aboutit, nothing but those of us
first thing you're coming for istheir sleep so when you
accepted the call at what yousaid 22, 23, somewhere okay,
that's, that's pretty young,that's pretty young.
What do you remember?
(24:08):
Your first sermon?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
absolutely okay.
What was mine?
Uh from from the scripture thatsays uh, when I would do good,
evil is ever present.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Lift that.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I promise you.
And it was dealing with thewarring in the spirit realm
within yourself.
Yeah yeah.
The title of the message was noMore Excuses, Mm.
I still have the cassette tape.
Bishop Patterson allowed myfather to introduce me, which is
(24:48):
the funniest thing ever.
Okay, Because he was just like.
I can't believe this is gettingready to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I know this is God.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The annex is packed with like 600 people because the
word got out in the city.
Wow, al doing his trial, sermonHoo they coming.
Got to see it for myself, gotto see it for myself.
All of the community choirs andmusicians.
They was just like no, no, no,no.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They came from far away.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Twinkie Clark was in town, okay, and she came by and
she sang before.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I preached, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Now it was me and this other guy.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, he went first Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Have you ever seen someone stand at a podium and a
mobile mortuary comes out theback?
Have you ever seen someoneStand at a podium and A mobile
mortuary Comes out the back andjust plugs the embalmer and just
put up in it?
Baby, he died.
Do you hear me?
It was just set up like that.
(25:59):
If you can't win after this one, you ain't got nothing.
His little notes fail.
And I was looking at him.
I was like you better die, justdie, oh, lord, I'm so come on
22, 23.
Bishop patterson looked over atme like you better not laugh.
(26:23):
But I know he was silly too.
He wanted to laugh.
He knew if he had to startlaughing, it's a wrap, it's over
.
I would have came to the micstill laughing.
Yep, so preach the message.
Here's, here's, here's a graceof God.
Okay, show showing up.
(26:44):
Almost 60 to 80 young peoplecame to the altar.
Wow and gave their lives toChrist.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Come on, Jesus.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I ain't cried so hard , I'm just like this got to be,
the Holy Spirit.
Yes, this is not me.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm a mess, right Like, do you know?
I'm a whole mess over here.
This is not me.
I'm a mess, right Like, do youknow I'm a whole mess over here.
And you used me to do this.
Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, sure did, no more excuses.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Huh, so no more.
So it sounds like you werepreaching to yourself.
Absolutely, like, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Absolutely, and I was too young and stupid to know it
until I went back and listenedto it Like this is eerie.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah, Wow, Wow.
That's pretty amazing.
If you're enjoying the episodeslike share, subscribe, leave us
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Today's episode is brought toyou by Destiny Film and Media.
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(27:55):
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
Through film and media.
So you do your trial sermon andlike what happens after that.
What do those years, thosefirst years, look like?
Being a young minister, newlymarried and still figuring out
(28:20):
all the things.
What does that look like foryou and how are you navigating
that space to be able to notembarrass God?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, first thing, let's go back to.
I meant what I said.
Okay, I didn't have to preachagain after that.
I was not looking for preachingdates.
Right, you start talking abouta preaching date.
I walk off Doing that again.
Like I'm done, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I did what you asked me to do.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I thought we were good.
I'm back on this organ teachingthe choirs.
Listen, I'm gone, Okay okay.
Honestly Okay, honestly.
It was when we moved up here.
My wife's aunt, the latemissionary Janet DuPart, a
living theologian who neveraccepted her call.
(29:16):
I just called her missionarywould sit me at the dinner table
and rake me over the coals yeah, she was just like you smart,
you gifted, but you don't knownothing.
Wow, you got to read this andshe would give me stuff to read.
Okay, every family function wasat her house in Maywood.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you had to be there it was all the food.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm young and poor, so we going, we going, because
food was going to be everywhereand they all could cook.
I'm like, oh yes, be there.
And I tried to dodge thatkitchen table.
Wow Sit at the dinner table,her and the late Miss Edwards.
They would sit there and pickthe Bible apart.
(30:04):
Wow, they never called nobodyelse to the table but me.
Really, yes, she said.
God told me he's going to useyou, come on.
And you got to get ready.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Wow, yes, so she was obedient and just poured into
you.
Yes, so she just she wasobedient and just poured into
you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Absolutely, and you.
She was, like you know, say,the queen of my wife's family.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You can't tell auntie that no, no, no, no.
And you can't get sassy and youcan't just get up from the
table.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
You bet not.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's going to be a whole problem and the rest of
the family would walk by thetable, pat me on my back and get
your hand off of me.
You ain't sitting here.
Don't be touching me.
Y'all know how we do.
We'll be already aggravated.
My wife and her cousin was peeparound the corner she's getting
them again, getting them againbut.
(31:02):
I thank the Lord.
It's just like she picked upright where my mom left off,
because we used to have Sundayschool on Thursday nights.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Okay, so you grew up in one of those houses too?
Yes, Okay.
Okay, listen, we didn't play.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
It was not a game At all.
You got to open and pressscripture you better know it,
the review, all that and thatwas your homework.
You better know it.
But I got homework for schooland you better have this ready
for Thursday.
And her switch sitting righthere.
Ooh, not with the switch too.
Yes, I would get up and try tofluff through the general review
(31:37):
.
Sit down, you ain't studiednothing.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh, wow, and you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You're doing the new review Next week and you're
going to end Recap with this onethat you fluffed over.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Oh, wow, okay.
So I guess my daddy wasn't thatbad Cause.
Listen, we just had to sitthere and listen and learn and
be able to review and recap.
But, like at eight, we had the.
He was pulling out theconcordance.
Sir, I'm a cordon, sir, I'meight, I don't care.
Like what, you need look thisup, look this up.
You need to know how to do.
(32:08):
You need to know how to lookthis up, you need to.
And I didn't, I didn'tunderstand that at the time he
was because my, my dad did go touh, uh, he went to moody uh,
for a season and I didn't, Ididn't.
But before that he was, youknow, in the brotherhood, in the
baptist church, you know, goingall over the country and stuff.
I didn't realize that he waslike the like now, you way
(32:33):
better at this than than I am.
But the hermeneutics, the, thehermeneutics, the homiletics,
the, all those things I didn'tread to exegete, the scripture I
didn't realize that that's whathe was teaching me, teaching us
how to do.
But when I got older and Istarted hearing all these times,
I was like, well, what is thatand what is this and what's?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I was like oh, it wasn't until I entered uh uh
Northern Baptist um seminary.
When I first entered, they hada dual track where you get your
bachelor's and your master's atthe same time.
And they were asking well, whatis your seminary background?
(33:14):
I don't have any.
It was like yeah, right, theclass go on and I'm just
engaging right.
I'm firing on all cylindersbecause I hadn't, as you, I
hadn't paid attention to like mymom was a theological genius
yeah right, yeah, and she wasjust pouring into me, pouring
(33:34):
into me.
So all of the professors not all, but like two or three of them
invited me out to lunch.
My wife said you know they,they just want to pick your
brain.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Because they they try not to say it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And they had me to explain my upbringing.
And they said you've alreadyhad systematic theology.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And.
I said my mama don't knownothing about no sister or
nomadic.
Trust me, loretta didn't knownone of that Right.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But she had that Catholic school upbringing.
On study she was at the top ofthe Baptist training union
sessions and all this kind ofstuff.
Right.
So she was, just like my kids,going to know this Bible because
my grandfather used to tell heryou got them down there with
them sanctified folk, and theyain't learning nothing.
So she was proving him wrong.
Okay, so all of that, allthings work together for the
(34:36):
good of them that love the Lord,who are called according to his
purpose, his prothesis, likehis pointed mind about our lives
.
Yeah yeah, wow, I know it'scrazy.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's crazy, so as you .
Speaker 2 (34:58):
So when was the next time you preached the sermon?
When?
Well now, my father had alittle church, uh, at the same
time, and I blew him off forlike a year, year and a half,
until I couldn't blow him off.
So he did a little church, buthe had, he had grown into like
two, 75, 300 people.
(35:19):
Yeah, and you know, I'm so gladthat there are no tapes of that
mess, because I wouldn't study,you wouldn't study.
I was gifted to sing and moveto people, read a Bible verse,
give you some water down, wow.
And afterwards my mama used toshake her ass and say that was a
mess.
That lady boy, I'm telling you,you didn't even try, you didn't
(35:45):
even try.
I said, but the people wereblessed.
Mama, she said that was yourgift, that was not your word.
Now I said something rightthere.
Say it again that was your giftand not your word.
Come on Now.
How many folk go to churchevery Sunday and they call the
gift the word?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Well, well Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Let all earth be silent before me.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And I'm not.
I'm gonna jump off that train.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Hey, hey, right, okay , what's my next question?
So how?
So what made you come to theChicagoland area?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You ask great questions.
Good questions Made me asoperative.
You're so on point.
Okay, I had no plans to be here.
My wife was like I'm going upto Chicago to help my mama with
these kids.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
And then she called me one day and said I ain't
coming back, so if you want usto stay, you better come up here
.
I'm like what Wow?
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Are you serious?
Your wife is a G, she from thewest side.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
West side.
I mean, she just pumped me out,I'm on the phone, like she got
to be playing.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
She can't be serious.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
So I said, alright, we're going to stay up there for
about six months, eight months,and we'll come back home.
She was like never agreed,never disagreed to this day I
can't say she lied she said I'mso young and stupid.
I should have caught that.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Hmm, I should have caught it was a lot in there hmm
, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Now how many years later?
Right 36 years later, I'm stillhere still here, so yeah,
that's she got a job at the postoffice and that's pretty much
landed.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I'm still out there playing the churches, so you win
okay, okay, okay okay, you gotbenefits.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I I get a check on sunday yeah, right, there's a
difference.
There's a whole difference.
There's a difference, so yeah,oh, wow, yeah, wow but it it.
It introduced me to my firstrun with Corporate America.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Because this same Aunt, jeanette, was the office
secretary for a fine pewter giftcompany and they had an opening
for customer service.
Okay, and she told them abouther new nephew and I came up in
my church suit, I was ready.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Listen, I know you was clean.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I was cutting edges, baby, the wind was saying ouch,
I'm cracking with, check, checkComing in there, socks, suit,
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
When did the service stop?
Listen?
Okay, it's like this ain't noservice.
This is having an interview,because I'm ready, I'm ready,
church ready.
And God had it where thenational, the guy who was over
(39:15):
the national accounts, wascoming back from lunch and he
was a nice dresser, okay.
So when he walked in to see mehe was just like and who are you
?
And of course he didn't saythat you know he was.
I said and I stood up how youdoing?
I'm, I'm here for the interviewfor uh, customer service.
He said oh wow, I heard him onthe other side of the office
(39:39):
talking to the president and thevice president that I and uh
they sent for the manager ofcustomer service.
She came and got me whatever.
She went back and told them.
I later found out they saidjust introduce him to the
company okay so he can learn theproduct.
You know.
I got a weekly check and I'mplaying for a church.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Come on and.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I got benefits.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Listen, you doing good, I'm doing good, yeah, oh
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
And one day during lunch, it just dawned on me
there is no African-Americanrepresentation for this product.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Ah, so instead of going to, lunch.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
For a week I stayed during my lunch break and the
Holy Spirit just gave me theidea of starting with the HBCUs
and the fraternities andsororities, creating the same
logos that they were creatingfor Penn State and Delta, chi
(40:41):
and all these, you know, know,predominantly white fraternities
and sororities, and they weremoving millions of dollars of
this uh product.
Oh wow, doing lunch, I createdit and then I start calling,
cold, calling these places,these hbcus, okay, I convinced
(41:02):
the same guy who had seen mecome in months earlier and I was
dressing like this every daycoming to work, because that's
all you got.
That's all I got right I got himto go to the vice president and
ask them to create some mockproduct.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I said to ship it to them.
Every HBCU got it, the DivineNine got it and the phones went
crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
They said they called me down one day.
I'm just, I'm finna get fired,what's going on?
And they said we're moving youout of customer service.
You will now be our regionalmanager over African American
products because you created it.
Wow, and I started flying allaround the country with this
(41:57):
product.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
During those years I went to every conclave ever.
Wow From the drums to the organ.
That's why you can't talk to meabout marketplace, got you?
That's why you can't talk to meabout marketplace, Because if
you put yourself out there andallow those gifts to come alive,
(42:20):
scripture says he will lead andguide you into all truth.
There's a scripture that wequote in the westernized text
that says trust in the Lord withall thine heart and lean not
until the all own understanding,yeah but in all your ways,
acknowledge him and he shalldirect your path.
(42:41):
The original transcript sayslean on the lord.
Okay, with all your heart.
Uh-huh, don't trust your ownunderstanding.
Don't trust, don't trust it.
My understanding was I need tofind a bigger church gig.
My understanding was okay, Iprobably need to go on a gospel
(43:02):
tour okay, listen, that was myunderstanding.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's where the money was that's where the money
was.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Okay, okay, but he was just like, if you do it my
way, this is just the beginningof what's in your future.
Wow, I teach and preach amessage.
All the time he says JesusChrist.
The same yesterday, today andforever.
Yeah, I tagged it.
God is in your future and hecan hear you over there.
Come on, when is the last timeyou took a pause just to talk to
(43:34):
your tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Okay, okay, because if he's omnipresent, yeah, he's
there, right, he is, he'salready there.
He is.
And guess where else he is?
He's still in the past, whereyou done forgot.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Because when you look back and you see what his
presence and his grace did toget you to today, right, it
ought to make you confident toknow.
Well, if he kept me from myfoolish self yesterday, surely I
got some halves of a good mindright now.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
He's in my tomorrow waiting.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Okay, listen, wow, wow, that is Amazing.
It waiting.
Okay, listen, wow, that isAmazing, it is.
It's amazing.
You literally walked in off thestreet.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Off the street.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Because your aunt said you need, I got something
for you.
Come on in here.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And you ain't going to tell your niece, my wife this
Negro don't want to work.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Listen what you're not going to do.
You're not going to say that toher.
You're not.
You're not.
You're going to show up in yourSunday suits.
But all of that worked.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
For my good.
Wow, it set me on a path.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
You created a whole new division.
Yeah, you created a whole newdivision, yeah a high grade C
student.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
High grade, baby high grade I mastered the C.
Can't nobody make a C likeCleveland.
No, ma'am, my sister did allthat A's and I threw this too
much.
My daddy said don't bring noF's and I threw this too much.
My daddy said don't bring noF's and D's in this house.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I said it's a C-O-K.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I got you daddy a, c it is.
I did nothing extra.
Now here I am getting on planesgoing all over the whole region
.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Wow, wow.
And you said it came becauseyou stayed during lunch.
Yeah, and said God what youwant me to do?
Yeah, no, don't make it thatspiritual?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
okay, some days I didn't have no money for lunch.
Just might as well sit on downhere and try looking at
everybody else.
You see, just stay up at yourdesk.
You said it wasn't that deep itwasn't that deep.
I'm not that preacher to hear alittle thing, and you know, the
spirit of the Lord moved.
I was hungry, just flat outhungry.
(46:17):
Couldn't afford nothing.
So I'm gonna write out something, something got a break,
something got the break.
I thank god for this check, butwe don't get paid till next
week.
Come on, okay, okay, justpractical, absolutely absolutely
.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
And out of that struggle, wow week.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Come on now.
We got to rev this up, justpractical, absolutely, and out
of that struggle came that.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
So you did this up until.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Until they moved to San Antonio and my wife said we
ain't going to San Antonio, shejust been running it Because
we're here Because we're here.
I meant to be here when you gothere.
I meant was already cemented,right?
So yeah, so that was who wasborn.
(47:05):
Then, uh, it had to be like 90,91, all the way up until like
95, 96.
Okay, okay, and then the Lordopened up a job for me to become
a sales analyst for InlandSteel.
I know.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
What, what.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I'm managing.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
What I know, that's a major international corporation
.
What I know, Like this, isthat's a major international
corporate.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
What With corporate cards and everything.
I'm just like Wow, and I nevertalked about it, because I'm
like I'm just taking care of myfamily.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's what it was about.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
That was the old school mentality from my dad.
I'm like I'm why I'm trying tobreak.
To me what everybody else wasdoing was far greater than
anything that I was doing.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Wow, because I didn't have no degree, right, I
wouldn't, so you didn't even.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Wow yeah, two young ladies, one from the church and
her friend who was a supervisorup in there got me ready for the
interview.
We would practice.
That's what's up.
I'm from rehearsal.
I understand practice.
Yes, yes, yes.
(48:34):
And they told me what to say,how to say who to look at when I
say this.
And da da, da, yes, yes.
And they told me what to say,how to say who to look at when I
say this.
And da-da-da-da-da, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Wow.
So let's, let's, let's.
So now I'm seeing the theme.
I'm seeing a theme ofpreparation, even when you
weren't necessarily looking forit Amen.
So you were as a child, youwere, you know, prepped to and
(49:06):
you saw musicians, you sawministers.
You, you know, your mother, youknow, displayed uh, excellence
in, in, in, teaching, and of the, of the music and all the
things.
So you sat up under thattutelage and, but hold on.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And I don't mean to stop you, but all the greats
were at our house, the baddestmusicians at the time yeah, yeah
, they came through your house,they was like mother's calling
and they call either Mother Redor Red or Loretta.
And then, when they startaccepting their call to become
(49:41):
preachers many of the olderpreachers down there who are
apostles and bishops now theycame through on my mama's couch.
Wow, they accepted their callto the apostleship, they
accepted the call to become asenior pastor.
I'm 14, 15, watching the olderguys crying I was like, oh, she
got you on that couch, she gotyou, she's going to feed you
(50:05):
real good and she's going totake that Bible and just go at
you.
So at the time again back towhen we first started talking-
yeah yeah, it's just startedtalking.
Yeah, yeah, just the norm.
Yeah, it was nothing major.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, and now you see , Now I see that it was all like
it was a setup from thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
From the beginning.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yes, Wow, wow and wow .
Speaker 3 (50:31):
So, question.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Mm-hmm while, so question all of I'm trying to
ask a specific question.
So all of the things that, allthe experience, that you
experiences, that you had, andyou know all the experience that
you had, and you know all theexperiences that you had, and
(50:57):
then you become a pastor.
What was that season like foryou and what?
What made you accept that callto pastorship and then what made
you transition out of it.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Um, honestly, I I knew that this call uh had
always been on my life.
Problem was, I wish I wouldhave had more training first.
Retrospect is everything.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Okay, okay, uh, uh, not just teaching and preaching,
but how to lead people, how todeal with uh different types of
people, different types of uhnuances, yeah, yeah, because
nuances yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Because everybody is not the same.
They're not, and I feel like Icould have done it better and I,
early on, I could have builtsomething more sustaining if I
had had that part together.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
A lot of times when you're super gifted, you just
expect everybody to come onBecause that's all I had seen.
But what I did not see is thosetimes that these great people
would have private conversationswith these same people that
they're giving marching ordersto, and see them studying their
(52:35):
nuances and knowing when to backoff, when to apply ointment.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Because the other three they find oh, that's Al
child, but the other one messedup.
I done messed him up, right.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Okay, because.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Al, this is not a choir rehearsal.
It's not.
This is building a church.
There's not.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
This is building a church.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
There's a difference.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
There is a difference .
Speaker 2 (52:59):
So I don't like that term.
Collateral damage no, just ownit.
Yeah, you messed up, so youwant to do it again.
Okay, no, okay.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
You blew it.
I mean that's pretty honest, um, and I appreciate the honesty,
um, I guess what?
So what would you say tosomebody who has stepped out
into something that is a goodthing, mm-hmm, but they're not,
(53:44):
but they feel like, well, Iguess the question I should ask
before that is what made you sayit's time to transition out of
this.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well, lifestyle lifing.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Okay, out of this, well, um lifestyle lifing okay.
Okay, the the uh uh second uh,aortic aneurysm.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Shut it down on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Press into purpose what would your mom say?
You ought to be happy, come onand bring it back you got
something that still blesses hispeople.
Wow, then you add on to thisand he done spared your life.
How many times, boy?
Come on, that's a great checker.
Come on, I started getting ittogether.
(54:26):
Yeah, we have an assignment.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, you remember that first time, al.
That could have been the lasttime you remember that first
time out.
That could have been the lasttime you remember that second
time out.
Yeah, that could have been thelast time.
How about the third time now?
Surely Right.
And then he gets me righttogether.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Okay, today's episode is brought to you by Destiny
Film and Media.
Go to destinyfam1.com for allyour media needs.
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
Hello, welcome to another episode of Pressed Into
Purpose.
I am your host, valeria Wright.
Let's meet today's guest.
Reverend AA Cleveland II is adynamic leader who seamlessly
bridges ministry, education andbusiness excellence.
As the founder and president ofSalt and Light Ministries and
(00:48):
the Al Cleveland LeadershipAcademy, he has dedicated his
life to equipping others formarketplace success as
ambassadors of Christ.
With over 45 years of ministryexperience, reverend Cleveland
began his calling in 1989 underthe late Bishop GE Patterson in
Memphis, tennessee, and hasserved in various leadership
(01:10):
roles, including associatepastor at New Life Covenant
Southeast Church in Chicago,which serves 30,000 members.
He established his itinerantministry in 2007, ministering to
thousands across America andinternationally 2007,
ministering to thousands acrossamerica and internationally.
Academically, reverend clevelandholds a bachelor of arts in
(01:31):
systematic theology and pastoralcare from northern baptist
seminary trinity internationaluniversity and is currently
pursuing a master's degree insystematic theology.
He founded the al clevelandtraining in 2014, emphasizing
practical application ofbiblical scholarship through
hermeneutics, homiletics andapologetics.
(01:53):
Beyond the pulpit, reverendCleveland brings over 20 years
of professional expertise aspresident and CEO of Hegemon
Consulting LLC, where hespecializes in community
engagement, large-scale eventmanagement and organizational
development.
His work includes developingparent engagement curriculums
(02:14):
for Chicago area schooldistricts and delivering
strategic projects that exceedcommunity goals.
A devoted family man for 38years, reverend Cleveland is
married to Lori and is thefather of three children and
grandfather of two.
His multifaceted approachcombines spiritual calling,
educational innovation andbusiness acumen to create
(02:37):
lasting impact in communitiesacross the nation.
Please help me welcome ReverendAA Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Wow, wow, wow, thank you.
I sound like I know two orthree things, I think you might,
I think you might.
Wow, it's an honor to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am so godly proud of whatyou're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You and your husband.
Like I stated earlier, I haveknown you guys since you were
like teenagers.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Facts.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Facts Either you're getting older or I'm that old
dude.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Listen, listen.
We are all maturing togetherthis is.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
This is wonderful, and I believe that the Lord is
really going to use, uh, thisvehicle, uh, uh, and this space
that he's given you to createand to cultivate, to bless a
whole lot of people in thechurch and out of the church.
So, hey, let's get to it, I'mready.
(03:48):
My wife sends her love.
Hey, hey.
And she told me this morning.
She said, boy, you kind of geekto go do this.
She said I don't see you getgeek to do too much, no more.
I said, well, it's just thefact that I have a long
relationship with this coupleand to see how the Lord is using
(04:09):
them.
And so, yeah, absolutely I'mexcited.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well, thank you for being here, thank you for saying
yes.
You know, I'm always delightedand thrilled when I call and I
ask and the answer is yes,because people don't have to say
yes, you know.
So, thank you for your yes.
And going back to let's just,let's just get right on into it.
So we have known each other forlots of years.
(04:37):
And so I met you.
The first time I met you, youwere the organist for the church
that we attended and I was inthe youth choir.
Yes, and listen, you did notplay any games at all.
You didn't play with the people.
You wanted the tempo to beright, you wanted the music to
be right.
(04:57):
There needed to be sitting inthe choir under this, you know,
under this leadership, then youwere going to have to get it
together and learn your part andknow it and know it well, and
not be playing around becauseyou didn't have time for games.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
All of that was birthed out of my mom.
She was what they would callnow an old school choir trainer.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
She was.
I mean, how about this one?
As a young gifted boy, I hadthe ability to play drums at an
early age and sound like a mucholder young man.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So you know, you get to feeling yourself on the drums
and she's directing or teachingand you're not paying attention
to her because all the peopleare like play, little boy,
you're a poker jerk, you betterplay.
And I'm going in and all of asudden here comes a hymnal
flying across.
Oh no, she said, watch me.
And then to come through thelate Dr Maddie Moss Clark who,
(06:12):
when she would come to Memphis,she just deemed me her drummer.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Ok, listen, that's a high honor.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Absolutely, and she loved my mom.
My mom would work with her inthe jurisdiction and then, by
the time I got to high school,the late Dr Lula Hedgman of.
Overton High School, aperforming arts school, and she
made my mother look gentle,right, wow.
So all of that, and I've alwaysrespected music, yeah,
(06:45):
especially.
You know my mom would say shewould use the scripture whatever
you do, do it wholeheartedly asunto the Lord, yeah, and she
used to tell me you ought to behappy that the Lord gave you a
gift.
Come on To bless his people,because you know you dirty and
you ain't saved.
To bless his people, cause youknow you dirty and you ain't
saved, she would say it justlike that Okay, mama, you know
(07:13):
you dirty and you know you ain'tsaved, the least you can do, oh
god, is bless his people andgive him the best.
I said you know what.
You ain't lying, you not lying.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Wait.
So now I got a question, I gota follow up question.
So you grew up in the churchand so you grew up with all of
these great leaders, with all ofthese great people in the
kingdom as your mentors.
And you say your mom was likeyou know, because you know you
(07:52):
ain't saved.
So when did the transformationhappen?
Where it stopped becomingperformance and it became you
know, like real to you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, it has never been performance.
Okay, Okay, Uh.
She taught me and others how totap in, uh to the spirit realm
when you're giving worship.
So I'm never judgmental over aperson's or for a person's
(08:26):
lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
While they're sitting inside their gift Gifts and
callings cometh ETH continuouslywithout repenting.
Right Not the person repentingGod never repents for the gifts
that he's given or will continueto give.
Right gifts that he's given orwill continue to give.
So, being familiar with people,you become too familiar, it
(08:53):
becomes natural.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I didn't, the light bulb didn't go off for me that
Bishop Gilbert Patterson was oneof the greatest leaders that
would probably ever walk theplanet for a minute until I was
in my 20s.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Because my aunt used to do his hair Wow At a beauty
shop.
What you know what I'm saying.
So I'm hanging out at thebeauty shop, wow, and he getting
a pressing curl.
You know what I mean.
This is my pastor.
I love that he getting hookedup Right, wow, pressing curl.
This is my pastor.
(09:30):
He's getting hooked up right,wow.
So all of that, you know when,when, when things are so
familiar.
I will look at everybody elsewho are.
Who are?
What's your problem?
But when the light came on, orwhen I started having my
personal epiphanies, okay, okay,it's like you know what, al,
you really need to start runningtoward a personal relationship
(09:51):
with Christ, yeah, yeah.
Now what is that going to looklike for you, al?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Not what it looked like for my mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
For Bishop Patterson, Dr Clark and all of those
people.
So I had to get on my journey.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So I know we sing.
I looked at my hands and theylooked new.
I looked at my feet, and theydid too.
I looked at my hands theylooked the same.
Okay, they were the same.
I had the same fleshly desires.
Come on, I had to embrace.
Like Negro, you got a stronghuman experience.
(10:31):
You ready to happen here andyou come and kicking and
screaming, but at least the mindset Okay, begin to form.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, okay For me.
And when was that Like yourteenage years?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
No, baby, leave them teenage years alone.
We can never pick them up, notat all.
No, no, twelfth grade was ablur.
I sell through twelfth grade ablur.
I sailed through 12th grade.
You mean you talking aboutsailing every day?
(11:09):
Look at your neighbor and sayevery day, every day was a day
of Thanksgiving.
You hear me Right?
So no, I got married when I was22 years old.
Who, uh-huh and couldn't,nobody tell me I wasn't ready.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Listen okay.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
But your first knee jerk hit me about four, five
years later.
Ooh.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Okay, what you doing Okay okay, right, and I was like
wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Okay, and the bills and the babies and the yeah, it
just started rolling.
I need Jesus Because this stuffgot real, this stuff got real
real quick.
It's like boy, you ain't gonnamake it Reverend, no, sir.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
You have tried this thing on your own.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yep, now you out here , you ain't got a boat, paddle,
life jacket, nothing.
You getting ready to sink, doc?
Oh baby.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
And you said, father.
I stretched my hands to thee noother help.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
I know Because my daddy said I tried to tell you.
My mama said I told you not todo it.
That was the help.
That was the help.
That was the help.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
What's up.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Oh my God, Okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
People don't know all that about me, man.
You know they see me now.
They're like ooh, you talkingabout coming through hard trials
, listen.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
And tribulations.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yes, ma'am, somehow I made it.
All those songs were writtenfor Al Cleveland Jr.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
If it had not been, and the list goes on.
Listen, because the mercy, thegrace and mercy of God.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I misused both of them, abused them, took
advantage of them, rightManipulated them.
Just throw your list out there.
They called my mama, jesus'niece, and I was the spawn of
Satan for a minute.
Oh no, how you put thattogether.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So how did you come to?
So?
You're a preacher, you havewalked in the pastor seat, you
are just a leader in thecommunity, you have your
business and all the differentthings.
What would you say is yourpurpose?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
your purpose.
My purpose is to be, I wouldsay, a beacon, to say that there
are, there's much more in usthan we allow ourselves to
cultivate.
Okay, there was a point in timethat if you had told me 30 plus
(14:09):
years ago that I would be incorporate America, I would have
laughed at you, because Ithought the only thing that I
would ever do forever is dodrums and keyboards.
Wow, because I was just thatgood at it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean you were, you were, listen, listen, I remember
, I remember.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You know, started playing on records at 19 and on
drums and turning down R&B gigs.
In my own self-righteousness Isaid, well, at least I ain't
doing that.
I should have went on out onthe road.
In my own self-righteousness Isaid, well, at least I ain't
doing that, but I was doingeverything else.
I should have went on out onthe road.
So we don't explore the variousgifts.
(14:55):
So I'm always encouragingothers.
I don't care how old you are.
Ask the Lord yeah, what else isit?
And start putting yourself outthere right to see.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
And even if you find that that is not your call, who
knows God would have used you inthat moment to turn the light
on for somebody else.
It moves you on that is true,that is true.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So an encourager and a would you, would you?
The word that comes to mind ispusher.
So, because I see you as apusher of the gospel, a pusher
of people and pushing them topurpose.
Yes, a pusher of people.
Yes, um, and help pushing themto purpose.
Yes, um, what has that lookedlike in the secular space?
(15:50):
Um?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
let me start off by saying I am extremely paulinian
in theology and in practice.
Meaning Paul was a businessmanthat is never really celebrated
because he was such a greatpusher, forwarder of the message
(16:17):
, the gospel of Jesus Christ,through the preached word,
teaching and church planting.
But he also had strong businessacumen.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That is true.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
He connected with Priscilla and Aquila, who
already had their licenses,already had a place, and they
were positioned by theMediterranean Sea trade.
So he was meeting people fromall over the world and he did
not want to be a burden on thesetwo converts, priscilla and
(16:52):
Aquila.
So let me work out of your shopbuilding tents and I'm meeting
people from around the worldintroducing them to the gospel
of Jesus Christ.
Wow, al Cleveland says go tellthese young ones out here, yeah,
I don't care how well you canpreach, how well you can sing,
(17:15):
the Bible tells us to go intothe highways and the hedges and
compel people to come to Christ.
Yeah, that's what I do.
What I do, okay, okay, my planevery day in my mission, even
when I travel.
If you're sitting next to me onthe plane, I'm gonna let you
(17:36):
talk and find out how can Iinsert jesus.
Okay, okay.
If I'm in the lounge chillingand we wind up sitting next to
each other, my mind says God gotyou sitting here next to me,
gotcha, just to check and see.
Do you know him?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Now, he that went up, the soul, is wise.
How do I do that?
Do I go in and say now you sayyou'd be going to hell?
No, move away from me, you acreep right.
No, so you, you have to learnhow to get in there.
Yeah, and I teach that, I teachthat and opportunities have
(18:14):
opened up for me in themarketplace.
Yeah, by presenting christ,okay, wow, I know, it's just
amazing.
Okay, it's amazing, I'm stillthat preacher.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And if you need me to sing sometime.
I'm not a great singer, but Ican hold that note Right?
You want me to play a littlebit?
I don't care.
Okay, the drummer don't show up.
I'll hold it down untilsomebody get here.
Wow, even if I'm the preacher.
Wow, even if I'm the preacherBecause I'm, I'm showing them.
We got to come out of thismindset that you know I'm Mr
(18:49):
Hoof Hoofy.
I miss Hoof Hoofy.
They love it Right, becausethere are younger people
watching us.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
And I am still in awe of the times that the late
Bishop Gilbert Patterson wouldcome out and get on the organ.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
In the middle of a song, the great Bishop GE Wow.
Or when Bishop Darrell Hinesfrom Milwaukee would.
He would come to preach for usat Progressive, and the drummer
hadn't got there yet.
I'm on the organ.
He'll get on the drums.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Okay, okay, so you've watched and learned and seen a
different type of servantleadership, absolutely so.
Wow, you know, I hadn't reallythought about it like that.
So basically, you're justcontinuing to walk out servant
(19:56):
leadership.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
In the different facets of your life.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Absolutely.
I'm of the persuasion that saysI love the name my mother gave
me.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Because she loved my daddy so much.
I'm going to name my first boyafter this man Like dude, what
you do, boom Right, I got to geta wife and do that Boy.
After this man like dude, whatyou do, boom Right, I got to get
a wife and do that.
So I'm not hooked on titles.
Yeah, because, unfortunatelyfor you, you would be upset if I
(20:34):
showed you my birth certificateand you don't see pastor.
You don't see rim.
You don't see elder.
You don't see apostle you don'tsee elder.
You don't see apostle.
You don't see it doesn't exist.
It don't say that.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's my call Correct In the spirit realm.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yes, so I let people call me what they see.
That's why some call me DrCleveland, okay.
Some call me Bishop Cleveland.
Okay, some call me ApostleCleveland.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Okay.
And the list goes on, but whenI come to the mic God bless you
I'm Al Cleveland.
Okay, okay, okay, all right,listen, because that's the name
your mother gave you.
That's what my mama named me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
And I convinced my wife to name my first son.
I know my son convinced hiswife to name his son.
This thing ain't working for me.
You gonna stick with it.
I'm gonna stick with it.
Y'all need to follow me.
I'm telling you it works.
Be okay with who you are andwalk in your call.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now, how did you get to the place where you were okay
with who you were and walkingin your call Like when did you
even accept the call.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Now, that's a great story.
Okay, I accepted it as a way soI can get some sleep, not to
actually do it.
I just.
I just said yes, lord, thatwill you leave me alone.
Y'all want the truth, or youwant me to make it?
We want the truth.
The people need the truth.
I need to go to bed.
(22:05):
I was 22, 23 years old, can'trest and I'm hearing sounds.
Just tell me yes, okay, yes,yes, I'll preach One time my
child's sermon and I'm done.
I said yes, right, one time.
(22:27):
One time I was cool.
One time, 45 years later, 45years ago right, wow I didn't, I
wouldn't run it.
Running towards this I've alwaysknown, but I'm just like how
long can I push this?
Speaker 1 (22:48):
off Because you knew what came with the call
Absolutely and you didn't takeit lightly.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely yeah, even after telling the Lord.
Yes, I knew my life was stillkind of raggedy.
I gotta clean this up and cleanthat up.
Wait, that's too much.
Yes, I knew my life was stillkind of raggedy.
I got to clean this up andclean that up.
Wait, that's too much.
That's too much work in this.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes, Listen that, yes , had you out there.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That, yes, had you out there, your flesh was like
don't do it.
Yes, said now you know he'sgoing.
He's like see, this is why Ididn't want to talk to you in
the first place exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
This is why I didn't want to do this, because you're
gonna be ever present.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Ain't nothing like trying to do wrong and you hear
right.
Talking to me, said some ofthese other folk.
They ain't got this problem,they just do wrong, that's true.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
And keep it moving, that's true.
And don't think.
Don't think nothing else aboutit, nothing but those of us
first thing you're coming for istheir sleep so when you
accepted the call at what yousaid 22, 23, somewhere okay,
that's, that's pretty young,that's pretty young.
What do you remember?
(24:08):
Your first sermon?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
absolutely okay.
What was mine?
Uh from from the scripture thatsays uh, when I would do good,
evil is ever present.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Lift that.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I promise you.
And it was dealing with thewarring in the spirit realm
within yourself.
Yeah yeah.
The title of the message was noMore Excuses, Mm.
I still have the cassette tape.
Bishop Patterson allowed myfather to introduce me, which is
(24:48):
the funniest thing ever.
Okay, Because he was just like.
I can't believe this is gettingready to happen.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I know this is God.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The annex is packed with like 600 people because the
word got out in the city.
Wow, al doing his trial, sermonHoo they coming.
Got to see it for myself, gotto see it for myself.
All of the community choirs andmusicians.
They was just like no, no, no,no.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They came from far away.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Twinkie Clark was in town, okay, and she came by and
she sang before.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I preached, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Now it was me and this other guy.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Okay, he went first Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Have you ever seen someone stand at a podium and a
mobile mortuary comes out theback?
Have you ever seen someoneStand at a podium and A mobile
mortuary Comes out the back andjust plugs the embalmer and just
put up in it?
Baby, he died.
Do you hear me?
It was just set up like that.
(25:59):
If you can't win after this one, you ain't got nothing.
His little notes fail.
And I was looking at him.
I was like you better die, justdie, oh, lord, I'm so come on
22, 23.
Bishop patterson looked over atme like you better not laugh.
(26:23):
But I know he was silly too.
He wanted to laugh.
He knew if he had to startlaughing, it's a wrap, it's over
.
I would have came to the micstill laughing.
Yep, so preach the message.
Here's, here's, here's a graceof God.
Okay, show showing up.
(26:44):
Almost 60 to 80 young peoplecame to the altar.
Wow and gave their lives toChrist.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Come on, Jesus.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I ain't cried so hard , I'm just like this got to be,
the Holy Spirit.
Yes, this is not me.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm a mess, right Like, do you know?
I'm a whole mess over here.
This is not me.
I'm a mess, right Like, do youknow I'm a whole mess over here.
And you used me to do this.
Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, sure did, no more excuses.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Huh, so no more.
So it sounds like you werepreaching to yourself.
Absolutely, like, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Absolutely, and I was too young and stupid to know it
until I went back and listenedto it Like this is eerie.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah, Wow, Wow.
That's pretty amazing.
If you're enjoying the episodeslike share, subscribe, leave us
a comment.
We'd love to hear from you.
Today's episode is brought toyou by Destiny Film and Media.
Go to destinyfam1.com for allyour media needs.
(27:55):
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
Through film and media.
So you do your trial sermon andlike what happens after that.
What do those years, thosefirst years, look like?
Being a young minister, newlymarried and still figuring out
(28:20):
all the things.
What does that look like foryou and how are you navigating
that space to be able to notembarrass God?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, first thing, let's go back to.
I meant what I said.
Okay, I didn't have to preachagain after that.
I was not looking for preachingdates.
Right, you start talking abouta preaching date.
I walk off Doing that again.
Like I'm done, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I did what you asked me to do.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I thought we were good.
I'm back on this organ teachingthe choirs.
Listen, I'm gone, Okay okay.
Honestly Okay, honestly.
It was when we moved up here.
My wife's aunt, the latemissionary Janet DuPart, a
living theologian who neveraccepted her call.
(29:16):
I just called her missionarywould sit me at the dinner table
and rake me over the coals yeah, she was just like you smart,
you gifted, but you don't knownothing.
Wow, you got to read this andshe would give me stuff to read.
Okay, every family function wasat her house in Maywood.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you had to be there it was all the food.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm young and poor, so we going, we going, because
food was going to be everywhereand they all could cook.
I'm like, oh yes, be there.
And I tried to dodge thatkitchen table.
Wow Sit at the dinner table,her and the late Miss Edwards.
They would sit there and pickthe Bible apart.
(30:04):
Wow, they never called nobodyelse to the table but me.
Really, yes, she said.
God told me he's going to useyou, come on.
And you got to get ready.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Wow, yes, so she was obedient and just poured into
you.
Yes, so she just she wasobedient and just poured into
you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Absolutely, and you.
She was, like you know, say,the queen of my wife's family.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
You can't tell auntie that no, no, no, no.
And you can't get sassy and youcan't just get up from the
table.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
You bet not.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's going to be a whole problem and the rest of
the family would walk by thetable, pat me on my back and get
your hand off of me.
You ain't sitting here.
Don't be touching me.
Y'all know how we do.
We'll be already aggravated.
My wife and her cousin was peeparound the corner she's getting
them again, getting them againbut.
(31:02):
I thank the Lord.
It's just like she picked upright where my mom left off,
because we used to have Sundayschool on Thursday nights.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Okay, so you grew up in one of those houses too?
Yes, Okay.
Okay, listen, we didn't play.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
It was not a game At all.
You got to open and pressscripture you better know it,
the review, all that and thatwas your homework.
You better know it.
But I got homework for schooland you better have this ready
for Thursday.
And her switch sitting righthere.
Ooh, not with the switch too.
Yes, I would get up and try tofluff through the general review
(31:37):
.
Sit down, you ain't studiednothing.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh, wow, and you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
You're doing the new review Next week and you're
going to end Recap with this onethat you fluffed over.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Oh, wow, okay.
So I guess my daddy wasn't thatbad Cause.
Listen, we just had to sitthere and listen and learn and
be able to review and recap.
But, like at eight, we had the.
He was pulling out theconcordance.
Sir, I'm a cordon, sir, I'meight, I don't care.
Like what, you need look thisup, look this up.
You need to know how to do.
(32:08):
You need to know how to lookthis up, you need to.
And I didn't, I didn'tunderstand that at the time he
was because my, my dad did go touh, uh, he went to moody uh,
for a season and I didn't, Ididn't.
But before that he was, youknow, in the brotherhood, in the
baptist church, you know, goingall over the country and stuff.
I didn't realize that he waslike the like now, you way
(32:33):
better at this than than I am.
But the hermeneutics, the, thehermeneutics, the homiletics,
the, all those things I didn'tread to exegete, the scripture I
didn't realize that that's whathe was teaching me, teaching us
how to do.
But when I got older and Istarted hearing all these times,
I was like, well, what is thatand what is this and what's?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I was like oh, it wasn't until I entered uh uh
Northern Baptist um seminary.
When I first entered, they hada dual track where you get your
bachelor's and your master's atthe same time.
And they were asking well, whatis your seminary background?
(33:14):
I don't have any.
It was like yeah, right, theclass go on and I'm just
engaging right.
I'm firing on all cylindersbecause I hadn't, as you, I
hadn't paid attention to like mymom was a theological genius
yeah right, yeah, and she wasjust pouring into me, pouring
(33:34):
into me.
So all of the professors not all, but like two or three of them
invited me out to lunch.
My wife said you know they,they just want to pick your
brain.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Because they they try not to say it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
And they had me to explain my upbringing.
And they said you've alreadyhad systematic theology.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
And.
I said my mama don't knownothing about no sister or
nomadic.
Trust me, loretta didn't knownone of that Right.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
But she had that Catholic school upbringing.
On study she was at the top ofthe Baptist training union
sessions and all this kind ofstuff.
Right.
So she was, just like my kids,going to know this Bible because
my grandfather used to tell heryou got them down there with
them sanctified folk, and theyain't learning nothing.
So she was proving him wrong.
Okay, so all of that, allthings work together for the
(34:36):
good of them that love the Lord,who are called according to his
purpose, his prothesis, likehis pointed mind about our lives
.
Yeah yeah, wow, I know it'scrazy.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's crazy, so as you .
Speaker 2 (34:58):
So when was the next time you preached the sermon?
When?
Well now, my father had alittle church, uh, at the same
time, and I blew him off forlike a year, year and a half,
until I couldn't blow him off.
So he did a little church, buthe had, he had grown into like
two, 75, 300 people.
(35:19):
Yeah, and you know, I'm so gladthat there are no tapes of that
mess, because I wouldn't study,you wouldn't study.
I was gifted to sing and moveto people, read a Bible verse,
give you some water down, wow.
And afterwards my mama used toshake her ass and say that was a
mess.
That lady boy, I'm telling you,you didn't even try, you didn't
(35:45):
even try.
I said, but the people wereblessed.
Mama, she said that was yourgift, that was not your word.
Now I said something rightthere.
Say it again that was your giftand not your word.
Come on Now.
How many folk go to churchevery Sunday and they call the
gift the word?
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Well, well Amen.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Let all earth be silent before me.
Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And I'm not.
I'm gonna jump off that train.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Hey, hey, right, okay , what's my next question?
So how?
So what made you come to theChicagoland area?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
You ask great questions.
Good questions Made me asoperative.
You're so on point.
Okay, I had no plans to be here.
My wife was like I'm going upto Chicago to help my mama with
these kids.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
And then she called me one day and said I ain't
coming back, so if you want usto stay, you better come up here
.
I'm like what Wow?
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Are you serious?
Your wife is a G, she from thewest side.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
West side.
I mean, she just pumped me out,I'm on the phone, like she got
to be playing.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
She can't be serious.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
So I said, alright, we're going to stay up there for
about six months, eight months,and we'll come back home.
She was like never agreed,never disagreed to this day I
can't say she lied she said I'mso young and stupid.
I should have caught that.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Hmm, I should have caught it was a lot in there hmm
, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Now how many years later?
Right 36 years later, I'm stillhere still here, so yeah,
that's she got a job at the postoffice and that's pretty much
landed.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I'm still out there playing the churches, so you win
okay, okay, okay okay, you gotbenefits.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
I I get a check on sunday yeah, right, there's a
difference.
There's a whole difference.
There's a difference, so yeah,oh, wow, yeah, wow but it it.
It introduced me to my firstrun with Corporate America.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Because this same Aunt, jeanette, was the office
secretary for a fine pewter giftcompany and they had an opening
for customer service.
Okay, and she told them abouther new nephew and I came up in
my church suit, I was ready.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Listen, I know you was clean.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I was cutting edges, baby, the wind was saying ouch,
I'm cracking with, check, checkComing in there, socks, suit,
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
When did the service stop?
Listen?
Okay, it's like this ain't noservice.
This is having an interview,because I'm ready, I'm ready,
church ready.
And God had it where thenational, the guy who was over
(39:15):
the national accounts, wascoming back from lunch and he
was a nice dresser, okay.
So when he walked in to see mehe was just like and who are you
?
And of course he didn't saythat you know he was.
I said and I stood up how youdoing?
I'm, I'm here for the interviewfor uh, customer service.
He said oh wow, I heard him onthe other side of the office
(39:39):
talking to the president and thevice president that I and uh
they sent for the manager ofcustomer service.
She came and got me whatever.
She went back and told them.
I later found out they saidjust introduce him to the
company okay so he can learn theproduct.
You know.
I got a weekly check and I'mplaying for a church.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Come on and.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I got benefits.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Listen, you doing good, I'm doing good, yeah, oh
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
And one day during lunch, it just dawned on me
there is no African-Americanrepresentation for this product.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Ah, so instead of going to, lunch.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
For a week I stayed during my lunch break and the
Holy Spirit just gave me theidea of starting with the HBCUs
and the fraternities andsororities, creating the same
logos that they were creatingfor Penn State and Delta, chi
(40:41):
and all these, you know, know,predominantly white fraternities
and sororities, and they weremoving millions of dollars of
this uh product.
Oh wow, doing lunch, I createdit and then I start calling,
cold, calling these places,these hbcus, okay, I convinced
(41:02):
the same guy who had seen mecome in months earlier and I was
dressing like this every daycoming to work, because that's
all you got.
That's all I got right I got himto go to the vice president and
ask them to create some mockproduct.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I said to ship it to them.
Every HBCU got it, the DivineNine got it and the phones went
crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
They said they called me down one day.
I'm just, I'm finna get fired,what's going on?
And they said we're moving youout of customer service.
You will now be our regionalmanager over African American
products because you created it.
Wow, and I started flying allaround the country with this
(41:57):
product.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
During those years I went to every conclave ever.
Wow From the drums to the organ.
That's why you can't talk to meabout marketplace, got you?
That's why you can't talk to meabout marketplace, Because if
you put yourself out there andallow those gifts to come alive,
(42:20):
scripture says he will lead andguide you into all truth.
There's a scripture that wequote in the westernized text
that says trust in the Lord withall thine heart and lean not
until the all own understanding,yeah but in all your ways,
acknowledge him and he shalldirect your path.
(42:41):
The original transcript sayslean on the lord.
Okay, with all your heart.
Uh-huh, don't trust your ownunderstanding.
Don't trust, don't trust it.
My understanding was I need tofind a bigger church gig.
My understanding was okay, Iprobably need to go on a gospel
(43:02):
tour okay, listen, that was myunderstanding.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
That's where the money was that's where the money
was.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Okay, okay, but he was just like, if you do it my
way, this is just the beginningof what's in your future.
Wow, I teach and preach amessage.
All the time he says JesusChrist.
The same yesterday, today andforever.
Yeah, I tagged it.
God is in your future and hecan hear you over there.
Come on, when is the last timeyou took a pause just to talk to
(43:34):
your tomorrow?
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Okay, okay, because if he's omnipresent, yeah, he's
there, right, he is, he'salready there.
He is.
And guess where else he is?
He's still in the past, whereyou done forgot.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Because when you look back and you see what his
presence and his grace did toget you to today, right, it
ought to make you confident toknow.
Well, if he kept me from myfoolish self yesterday, surely I
got some halves of a good mindright now.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
He's in my tomorrow waiting.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Okay, listen, wow, wow, that is Amazing.
It waiting.
Okay, listen, wow, that isAmazing, it is.
It's amazing.
You literally walked in off thestreet.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Off the street.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Because your aunt said you need, I got something
for you.
Come on in here.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
And you ain't going to tell your niece, my wife this
Negro don't want to work.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Listen what you're not going to do.
You're not going to say that toher.
You're not.
You're not.
You're going to show up in yourSunday suits.
But all of that worked.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
For my good.
Wow, it set me on a path.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
You created a whole new division.
Yeah, you created a whole newdivision, yeah a high grade C
student.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
High grade, baby high grade I mastered the C.
Can't nobody make a C likeCleveland.
No, ma'am, my sister did allthat A's and I threw this too
much.
My daddy said don't bring noF's and I threw this too much.
My daddy said don't bring noF's and D's in this house.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
I said it's a C-O-K.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I got you daddy a, c it is.
I did nothing extra.
Now here I am getting on planesgoing all over the whole region
.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Wow, wow.
And you said it came becauseyou stayed during lunch.
Yeah, and said God what youwant me to do?
Yeah, no, don't make it thatspiritual?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
okay, some days I didn't have no money for lunch.
Just might as well sit on downhere and try looking at
everybody else.
You see, just stay up at yourdesk.
You said it wasn't that deep itwasn't that deep.
I'm not that preacher to hear alittle thing, and you know, the
spirit of the Lord moved.
I was hungry, just flat outhungry.
(46:17):
Couldn't afford nothing.
So I'm gonna write out something, something got a break,
something got the break.
I thank god for this check, butwe don't get paid till next
week.
Come on, okay, okay, justpractical, absolutely absolutely
.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
And out of that struggle, wow week.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Come on now.
We got to rev this up, justpractical, absolutely, and out
of that struggle came that.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
So you did this up until.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Until they moved to San Antonio and my wife said we
ain't going to San Antonio, shejust been running it Because
we're here Because we're here.
I meant to be here when you gothere.
I meant was already cemented,right?
So yeah, so that was who wasborn.
(47:05):
Then, uh, it had to be like 90,91, all the way up until like
95, 96.
Okay, okay, and then the Lordopened up a job for me to become
a sales analyst for InlandSteel.
I know.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
What, what.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I'm managing.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
What I know, that's a major international corporation
.
What I know, Like this, isthat's a major international
corporate.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
What With corporate cards and everything.
I'm just like Wow, and I nevertalked about it, because I'm
like I'm just taking care of myfamily.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
That's what it was about.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
That was the old school mentality from my dad.
I'm like I'm why I'm trying tobreak.
To me what everybody else wasdoing was far greater than
anything that I was doing.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Wow, because I didn't have no degree, right, I
wouldn't, so you didn't even.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Wow yeah, two young ladies, one from the church and
her friend who was a supervisorup in there got me ready for the
interview.
We would practice.
That's what's up.
I'm from rehearsal.
I understand practice.
Yes, yes, yes.
(48:34):
And they told me what to say,how to say who to look at when I
say this.
And da da, da, yes, yes.
And they told me what to say,how to say who to look at when I
say this.
And da-da-da-da-da, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Wow.
So let's, let's, let's.
So now I'm seeing the theme.
I'm seeing a theme ofpreparation, even when you
weren't necessarily looking forit Amen.
So you were as a child, youwere, you know, prepped to and
(49:06):
you saw musicians, you sawministers.
You, you know, your mother, youknow, displayed uh, excellence
in, in, in, teaching, and of the, of the music and all the
things.
So you sat up under thattutelage and, but hold on.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And I don't mean to stop you, but all the greats
were at our house, the baddestmusicians at the time yeah, yeah
, they came through your house,they was like mother's calling
and they call either Mother Redor Red or Loretta.
And then, when they startaccepting their call to become
(49:41):
preachers many of the olderpreachers down there who are
apostles and bishops now theycame through on my mama's couch.
Wow, they accepted their callto the apostleship, they
accepted the call to become asenior pastor.
I'm 14, 15, watching the olderguys crying I was like, oh, she
got you on that couch, she gotyou, she's going to feed you
(50:05):
real good and she's going totake that Bible and just go at
you.
So at the time again back towhen we first started talking-
yeah yeah, it's just startedtalking.
Yeah, yeah, just the norm.
Yeah, it was nothing major.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, and now you see , Now I see that it was all like
it was a setup from thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
From the beginning.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yes, Wow, wow and wow .
Speaker 3 (50:31):
So, question.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Mm-hmm while, so question all of I'm trying to
ask a specific question.
So all of the things that, allthe experience, that you
experiences, that you had, andyou know all the experience that
you had, and you know all theexperiences that you had, and
(50:57):
then you become a pastor.
What was that season like foryou and what?
What made you accept that callto pastorship and then what made
you transition out of it.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Um, honestly, I I knew that this call uh had
always been on my life.
Problem was, I wish I wouldhave had more training first.
Retrospect is everything.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Okay, okay, uh, uh, not just teaching and preaching,
but how to lead people, how todeal with uh different types of
people, different types of uhnuances, yeah, yeah, because
nuances yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Because everybody is not the same.
They're not, and I feel like Icould have done it better and I,
early on, I could have builtsomething more sustaining if I
had had that part together.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
A lot of times when you're super gifted, you just
expect everybody to come onBecause that's all I had seen.
But what I did not see is thosetimes that these great people
would have private conversationswith these same people that
they're giving marching ordersto, and see them studying their
(52:35):
nuances and knowing when to backoff, when to apply ointment.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Because the other three they find oh, that's Al
child, but the other one messedup.
I done messed him up, right.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Okay, because.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Al, this is not a choir rehearsal.
It's not.
This is building a church.
There's not.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
This is building a church.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
There's a difference.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
There is a difference .
Speaker 2 (52:59):
So I don't like that term.
Collateral damage no, just ownit.
Yeah, you messed up, so youwant to do it again.
Okay, no, okay.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
You blew it.
I mean that's pretty honest, um, and I appreciate the honesty,
um, I guess what?
So what would you say tosomebody who has stepped out
into something that is a goodthing, mm-hmm, but they're not,
(53:44):
but they feel like, well, Iguess the question I should ask
before that is what made you sayit's time to transition out of
this.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well, lifestyle lifing.
Speaker 3 (53:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Okay, out of this, well, um lifestyle lifing okay.
Okay, the the uh uh second uh,aortic aneurysm.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Shut it down on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
Press into purpose what would your mom say?
You ought to be happy, come onand bring it back you got
something that still blesses hispeople.
Wow, then you add on to thisand he done spared your life.
How many times, boy?
Come on, that's a great checker.
Come on, I started getting ittogether.
(54:26):
Yeah, we have an assignment.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, you remember that first time, al.
That could have been the lasttime you remember that first
time out.
That could have been the lasttime you remember that second
time out.
Yeah, that could have been thelast time.
How about the third time now?
Surely Right.
And then he gets me righttogether.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Okay, today's episode is brought to you by Destiny
Film and Media.
Go to destinyfam1.com for allyour media needs.
Destiny Film and Media yourdestiny through film and media.
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