July 23, 2025 • 63 mins
What happens when sincerity, sapphic joy, and a viral finger-hold collide? You get one of the most iconic moments in queer media—and the journalist at the center of it all.
This week on Pride, host Caitlynn McDaniel sits down with Tracy Gilchrist, VP of Editorial and Special Projects at Equal Pride and the journalist behind that viral “holding space” interview with Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande. Tracy reflects on her decades-long career in queer media—from writing on tangerine iBooks to editing SheWired, The Advocate, and Pride—and the importance of archiving LGBTQ+ stories for the future.
They talk sapphic representation, how Carol made Tracy want to fall in love again, and what it’s like to accidentally go viral for being earnest. 📚 Also in this episode:
This week on Pride, host Caitlynn McDaniel sits down with Tracy Gilchrist, VP of Editorial and Special Projects at Equal Pride and the journalist behind that viral “holding space” interview with Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande. Tracy reflects on her decades-long career in queer media—from writing on tangerine iBooks to editing SheWired, The Advocate, and Pride—and the importance of archiving LGBTQ+ stories for the future.
They talk sapphic representation, how Carol made Tracy want to fall in love again, and what it’s like to accidentally go viral for being earnest. 📚 Also in this episode:
- Why sapphics are loyal but underserved audiences
- What camp really means (according to Susan Sontag)
- The hard truth about internet traffic and queer journalism
- Rewatchables: Pretty Little Liars, The Bold Type, and more
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawut media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I mean that interview is high camp because we all
really were trying to be there for each.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Right, Yeah, like you you were like, I had great intention,
Cynthia wanted to give you a good answer, Marianna wanted
to be supportive. We were all there.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Arianna just just grabbed her finger, which is.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
A Mariana really like she did that.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hi, I'm Kitlyn McDaniel. Welcome back to the Pride Podcast.
I'm so excited for this week's episode because we are
going to be holding space as we do. We hold
space here. My guest is Tracy Gilchrist. Hi. Hi, which
you may know from the viral moment with Arianna and
Cynthia Arrivo. Yes, yeah, we have to we have to
(01:00):
enter that. But also you've been doing so much for
queer media for decades and you're currently with Equal Pride
doing amazing stuff. So thank you for all that you do.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh well, thank you. I mean, we are in queer
media together, We are all in queer media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It really is like such a bomb though, Like I
have talked to people that are also in queer media,
and you know, it sounds like such a joke to
be like, oh, we're in cleer media, but it's really
so true that we have to stay bonded, especially now
because it's there's a lot against us.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, and I think it's important that we are telling
our stories and ensuring that they're covered holistically as opposed
to you know, say, the coverage that the New York
Times did for a year leading up to this election,
where they were trying to both sides trans issues and
(01:54):
the science doesn't bear out so and because of that coverage,
it was just named in the Scrimmetti case on gender
firming care. So it really matters. So you know, that
is to not get too serious too soon, but to
say thank you as well for all that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Thank you. Yeah, no, I know. I mean I love
doing it and love having these conversations. I'm sure you
do too, But it can it can be rough.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Sometimes it's really hard to cover your community. I've I've
covered things from you know, marriage equality to pulse to
many elections, some really joyful and some like just gut punches.
And you know, I've been in newsrooms where people have
(02:44):
broken down and have cried, and you know, but at
the end of the the day, get up and get
the job done. But it is really emotional to try
to work through what feel like direct well what our
direct attacks on the LGBTQ plus community. So yeah, I
feel you on that one.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, and you've been in queer media for a while.
What can you say about how it has looked in
the past and how it looks today.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, when I started, I was I mean, I think
I was writing on a tangerine Uh what were they
called eyebook? I think it was called an eyebook. It
was it was a laptop. Oh okay, it was like
kind of translucent, but then there's like a tangerine. Mine
was tangerine. They also had pink and like a teal color,
(03:35):
and I think a green. It was an early.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Mac mon top, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, and it had a handle.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Like a per like everything's like silver and boring nowadays.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Actually, Carrie, Carrie Bradshaw had the blue one in the
first season of Sex and the City, the Originals in
the City. Yeah, and it's sad maced so she had
to go get another one, and I think then she
got the boring one. But but yeah, so I would
type on that and it had a disk drive, and
then I would have to take the disc somewhere to
(04:13):
print out the paper and then give it to my
editor at this magazine where I worked in Hartford, Connecticut.
I didn't work there. I did it for free concert
tickets and tickets to the theater. I didn't get paid
for a long time, and I would just give her
sheets of paper that then went into this magazine, metro
(04:34):
Line magazine that for a long time I had picked up,
Like you know, I'd be at the gay bar, you'd
be walking out the door, pick up metro Line, toss
it in the car and read it at some point.
But it was our local LGBTQ. Well you would. We
wouldn't have called it that then. It was a local
gay magazine at that time. So it was very different
(04:56):
then because the Internet was around, but there were not
websites like we have now. I mean, everything's digitally driven now.
Well now that's even changing, right. So I really started
full time in queer media in two thousand and eight
when I became the editor in chief of she wired
dot com, which was kind of part of our suite
(05:19):
of sites which include well actually she wired became Pride
dot com. And then you know, we've had out in
the Advocate, owned by the same company for quite some time.
So I was hired to run she wired the Saffic site,
and that was purely digital. We also worked without in
(05:42):
the Advocate, which have a print component, So pretty much
then it was digital and print and even social media.
Like I don't think Twitter was even much of a
thing when I started, so we weren't even thinking about
how to promote on social media. We were going primarily
off of Google SEO and kind of a word of
(06:07):
mouth and maybe email campaigns and newsletters. So it's changed
a lot, as it's changed for all of media because
you have become so much more savvy now. And now,
of course the problem is how do you get people
to your site because nobody wants Personally, I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Go to any websites now.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I look at Apple News. I do. I know, I
just bad mouth The New York Times, but I do
still have a subscription to the New York Times. I
grew up in Connecticut and it was, you know, that
arts and Entertainment section in the Sunday paper was like
very queer media to me, right, I would pick it
(06:49):
up and read all about Broadway and theater, which at
a very young age was important to me. So to me,
I think that was kind of early queer media was
that entertainment, that big, thick arts and entertainment section on Sunday.
So I still go with the New York Times, although
I have at times really thought that I should not anymore.
(07:11):
So the changes are, you know, also about identity. Like
I said, back when I started, we would have called
it a gay magazine, and then I did work for
Curve at it for a time in the mid os,
which is that was a national lesbian magazine. Now we
would probably call that saffok. We weren't super I mean,
(07:35):
where we did cover various identities, we weren't super cautious
about kind of the overarching the umbrellas of people's identities.
And I think we're much more aware and inclusive than
we were back then, trying to use well, queer obviously
(07:56):
is an umbrella term, and LGBTQ plays us or whichever
form of that is the style of a magazine. So
I think the identity wise, we've really shifted. And also
I think we're talking about gender a lot more than
we ever did. Trans folks were a little invisible in
some of that early coverage, so I think that shifted
(08:20):
probably around I think I started to see a shift
at least where I worked with this editor, Lucas Gridley,
who made a concerted effort to put trans issues first
and foremost for The Advocate. It was probably around twenty
eleven twenty twelve. So those are some of the changes
that I've seen.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yea, and you said you started with She Wired, like
that was kind of the beginning for the well.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I started with metro Line magazine for Queer Media. Then
I went to in Newsweek, in Newsweekly out of Boston,
which was regional, and then I these these were freelance,
freelanced for Curve for quite time. I worked for a
daily newspaper in Connecticut for a while, which really spurred
me to move to LA because I was like, I'm
(09:07):
going to die if I stay. If i have to
listen to one more Board of Education meeting, oh, I'm
not going to survive. But I think that was really
helpful in terms of teaching me how to be a
reporter and to edit myself, et cetera. So that was
valuable even if it was also the catalyst that brought
me to LA. So you know, I can't be mad
(09:29):
at that, So yeah, I did that. I came to
LA I was an editor for a part time editor.
I can't remember what the title was. She Wired previously
was Lesbiananation dot com and that was god. I think
that was built in the late nineties, so it was
(09:50):
one of the first lesbian websites ever. But it really
needed to refresh, so they brought me in to refresh that.
So I was with she Wired and then and I
was on Pride for we You know, it's no secret
it's hard to get eyes on saffic content, even though
saffis are probably the most loyal fan base, but it's
(10:14):
really hard to find and build that audience, and it's
also tough to get advertisers to get on board with it,
even though women are some of the most loyal consumers
out there. So at some point we were just like, Okay,
we'll just change she Wired's trajectory and now we're going
(10:34):
to make it for millennials, which at the time were
kind of the youngest adults. So I was on Pride
for a year. Then I became The Advocate's first ever
feminism editor, which I did for a couple of years,
and in the pandemic or just ahead of the pandemic.
(10:55):
I was an editor in chief of The Advocate, So
that was aallenge trying to learn how to do print
production in a pandemic alone with my cat, with everything
else going.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
On, right, and you're like, this is what I have
to focus.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
On, and I'm trying to learn. You know, I know
how to edit, I know how to do a feature story,
but fitting everything in, you know, copy fitting and what
is kerning and what are widows and orphans? I hadn't
paid attention to those terms, and so just learning all
of that, learning a little bit of in design. We
(11:32):
had this arcane dropbox system that I had to learn,
so that was really quite a challenge. Yeah, so that's
kind of it. I did go for a time over
to Advocate Channel, which when Equal Pride bought our company,
they launched Advocate Channel, which was very video based, kind
(11:53):
of news based, So I was doing Equal entertainment kind
of interviewing people on camera every day and reading some
news headlines. And then a year ago in June, I
came back to the editorial side as VP of Editorial
and Special Projects. So long time, lots of titles under
(12:17):
these brands so I've done it all pretty much.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I wanted to ask, just because
you do have some of these amazing positions where you
really were trying to bring queer women into the spotlight,
which I feel like is still an ongoing problem that
I see. And I haven't been in the industry that
long yet. It's just always a battle to make sure
that they're seen and heard and represented in all these platforms,
(12:41):
and I feel like we don't have a spot now
that really is just for that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Even Yeah, I think auto Straddle is probably the I
think it's the last remaining site that's based in this country.
I know that Diva Magazine is still doing its thing
in England, but I feel like the saffics have moved
to TikTok and Instagram accounts got them such a Dike
(13:09):
and Saffic Sandwich, And I mean there's some really great influencers,
some very very funny, smart Saffic comedians who are building
huge audiences on TikTok and Instagram. But yeah, in terms
of getting news to saffis, it's really a challenge and
(13:30):
it's always something I keep pushing it. I keep writing
those stories even if they don't always find us. I
still want it to be a part of the history.
I always say this with our magazines, especially because with
the Internet, with online I'm like, what is going to
(13:51):
exist in a hundred years. I've already seen, Like I
worked on Shee Wired for eight years. When that got
moved over to Pride, a lot of that cod was lost.
It's just lost. So that felt really hard personally, but
also all that history, and so I love that we
(14:13):
still make a print magazine. We have out an Advocate
and they are called the flip book. Now it's one
book and you get out and then you turn it over,
flip it around and there's the Advocate. So that is
kind of a new model. But I always tell our
writers when you're writing a story, when you're considering the
(14:33):
story you're telling, not too much pressure. But I think
it's really special and it makes me feel like I'm
doing something really worthwhile. But I always think, think about
in a hundred years, somebody opens the One arch It's
called the One Institute, but it used to be the
One Archives. Right this LGBTQ plus Archive housed at USC
(14:58):
right here in LA. Somebody opens that vault and you're
on You're on the record. You're part of queer history.
You're writing, your storytelling is a part of that queer history,
and I think that's really beautiful. So it inspires me
to always do my best, even when I'm tired, even
when I want to take shortcuts. That notion of being
(15:23):
a part of the queer record is so important to
me that I try to always go the extra step.
So I love that our magazines are a physical copy
that can be discovered and you know, I don't know,
maybe be in museums in the future.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I mean that is what's lost now with nothing being
printed or being like really tangible. Yeah, like fully there
all the time, because with social media it all feel
so fleeting all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, but you know, I love.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That that idea that it's going to live there and
be there for other people to see.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's inspiring to me. One of my colleagues,
Daniel Reynolds, he runs you know, Daniel, he's the editor
(16:23):
in chief of Out and we've worked together, gosh, I
think since twenty thirteen now, and I don't know. I
think I was having like a rough time during the
pandemic where it's like, what am I doing doing with
my life. I'm sitting in this apartment in West LA
with my cat and you know, like just and at
(16:44):
one point he said, Tracy, we changed culture. People have
come out to us, and you know that really impacted
the way that I was thinking at the time, because
I was just like, ugh, what should I be doing
with my life?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean I wanted to ask if there
was throughout your career a time where you really like
felt like, yeah, no, I'm making a difference, like in
this moment, whether it was someone you were talking to
or a story you did, and after it happened, you
were like, no, this this means something.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, I I mean, gosh, I've written so many stories
sometimes I feel as though I'm writing these stories in
a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
For instance, very few people realized that part of the
reason that viral moment happened was because I had already
interviewed Cynthia Arriva for an hour over Zoom and written
like a twenty five hundred word cover story on her
for the Out one hundred. She was our Out one
(17:46):
hundred icon of the year, and so when I walked
into the room with her and Ariana, it was already
kind of warm, Like we exchanged a few words, and
you know from doing junkets that that goes a long
way if you have a little rapport walking into the room.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, they can be scary too, Yeah, it can be scary. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So but you know, I walked into that room and
she said, Oh, it's so good to see you again.
I said, you know, we just had this moment and
I hadn't met Ariana before, but she complimented my pink
and green. But she saw that Cynthia and I had
already kind of formed something. So even if we didn't
fully understand one another, like we were all kind of
(18:27):
operating from different places, in that moment, there was there.
I do feel like there was a sense of like
caring for one another, which I think shines through So anyway,
that is to say that a lot of people don't
know that I wrote this big story on Cynthia, which
I spent so much time in care on. But it's
(18:51):
all part of, you know, the process, so I haven't
I sometimes get people coming up to me and saying, oh,
I'm really a fan of your your writing, or I
actually was at a spin class the other day where
I forgot this woman I now know her from riding
bikes and a's life cycle, But I first met her
(19:13):
because she met a friend of mine and they were
talking about this Brandy Carlyle story which she really loved,
and it happened to be a cover story I wrote
about Brandy Carlyle. So it's lovely to hear that from people.
In the past, I have occasionally gotten folks thanking me
for my work and amplifying queer storytellers, queer artists, But
(19:36):
obviously the most impactful inspirational moments have come since I
went viral. Yeah, but yeah, so, because sometimes it did
feel like, is anybody reading I'm screaming into the vois
paying attention?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And then all of a sudden, everyone's paying attention. Yeah, great,
thank you, I've been here. Yes, I've been doing this
for a while, right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
One of the things that came out of it, though,
is there were a lot of folks who said, you
deserve this moment. You've been doing this work for so long. Congratulations,
you know. Some some came and said, I've been I've
been a fan of your work for a long time.
I'm glad this happened for you. So people were speaking
up a little bit and kind of validating the work
(20:22):
that I'd been doing for a long time. So that
was that was really nice.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's good to hear. You should have said
that earlier, but thank you for saying it now. I mean,
where have you been?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's I I would like to say that I don't
need validation. We all do, but it is nice to
know that that it's reaching people. I don't need huge compliments.
I just want to know because with traffic as a measure,
sometimes the stupidest thing is going to get loads of
(20:56):
traffic and sits of approbation. It's like, oh my god,
you got so much traffic, and it's like, okay, that
story took twenty five minutes to post, right to write
and post, whereas this other thing.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, this feature I did, Yeah, this three weeks of research.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
She searching and yeah, picking the quotes and thinking about
like it's just all of that. And so the Internet
is a really weird measure of success. Right, Like I
could post I don't know, twelve shirtless pictures of Jonathan Bailey,
and that's going to do better than my twenty five
hundred of course word feature story on Cynthia Arrivo. That's
(21:39):
the way the internet works, which you know, whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right, we all love Jonathan, but also yeah, yeah, we're
you're talking about, you know, a queer woman being thrown
to the side, and it's like, well, right, it is no.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
No, I mean Jonathan, you know, at least he is
a queer man. But he's okonderful Dylan Ephron. Dylan Efron,
you know, got a lot of traffic and I'm like, great,
he's a straight guy. He took his shirt off and yeah,
arched his Yeah, okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We have to play the games sometimes and also sometimes
the games are weird.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
They are weird. But I mean, look, I I think
if you know, if people are finding their sexuality through
an attraction to Dylan Ephron, well then that's useful, I suppose.
But you know, it's it's just not balanced. It's like, yeah,
I know, I don't have to tell you no.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And I was like, nothing against Dylan. Keep going off.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's lovely, he came to the blad Awards. He's supporting
the community.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
True, yeah, yeah, seems great. But yeah, you're just like,
we're just trying to spotlight all people, yes, especially in
the community. Yes, right, right, And you talked about your
viral moment, and I know we've talked about it before,
but I really just want to ask, like, what was
going through your mind when all of that was happening.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Like initial, well, as I said, I had interviewed Cynthia,
I went in there, I had four minutes with them.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I want he's always crazy. When they first told me
you have four minutes, I was like, there's just what
am I going to do? But sometimes now it feels long.
So it really is a weird. It's weird sense.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It depends because sometimes well you know that when you
get a junket, you get who you get right, and
you'll be like, well, I really want this person, Well
can you also interview this person who's not queer? Doesn't
you know, maybe an actor who is a out role right,
or or it's like an actor who's not known for
(23:37):
even being semi political. Like if I go into a
room with someone like like I just interviewed Charlie's Theron,
she's political, she's played queer roles. She you know, she
speaks out, so I'm not worried about whether or not
she's going to answer a question about you know, queer
(23:58):
identity or gender or whatever. But I have had some
where they're just they just don't they just don't bite.
So and that feels like a very long time. So anyway,
when I went into the room, as I said it was,
we had a little exchange. I went to Ariana. I
(24:19):
asked her about the scene in the oz dust Ballroom
and when Glinda comes around and supports Alphabet after she's
ostracized her, and also that's the start of this platonic
love story. And Arianna really gave a beautiful, beautiful answer.
(24:43):
And so by the time I got to Cynthia, I
wanted to be sure that I asked her something I
hadn't asked her in our our long zoom college, which
is hard.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I covered, yeah, We've covered a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And it was two days after the election, the reelection
of Donald Trump. And anyone who's seen Wicked knows that
this story in part is about an othered person who,
at the moment they come into their full power, is
exiled by a kind of fascist leader. So this is
(25:19):
a very relevant story. And so you know, with very
little time to explain all that or to tee up
the question, I thought I could shorthand it like this week,
people are really holding Space of the lyrics of Defying Gravity,
because that morning I saw Tony Morrison, who I imagine
(25:42):
you know, Tony from Glad. So Tony Morrison from Glad
had literally posted the lyrics of Defying Gravity on Instagram
and I can't remember the caption exactly, but it was
like something along the lines of this hits differently today.
So I had seen that just maybe while I was
(26:03):
waiting to go in. So I think I actually changed
my answer for Cynthia or started. I teed it up differently.
So the question was, you know, this week people are
holding space with the lyrics of define Gravity, and what
does it mean to you as a queer black woman
that this song that has meant so much to othered
(26:27):
and queer people for twenty years is now may now
take on a new life? Like that was essentially the question, right,
But I didn't even like the question did not go viral,
just the teeing up part because she had such a
big reaction, and so you know, I didn't know that
was happening, and I went in my brain, I went,
(26:50):
oh shit, well it's not a big thing. I saw
it on Tony Moore and this is me. You can
almost see my head going because I'm thinking, I don't
want to mislead.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Right, you know, I don't want to and like everyone,
you're like, I don't want to say something that, like
I know, is not true. I'm not trying to say that.
I'm trying to say this, but it's hard to get
your point across.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So, you know, Tony posted the lyrics. I had been
seeing lots of excitement about Wicked all, you know, so
so then I'm like trying to manage Cynthia's expectations. And
that was when I kind of dialed it back and said, well,
you know, I've seen it. I've seen it, yeah, a
couple of posts. I'm in queer media.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You can see me just trying.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I can see now hearing this backstory, like I've seen
you do a couple of interviews and stuff. But now
hearing that backstory is like, your response is made perfect
sense to be like, no, I've seen it. I'm in
queer media. That's where it's at, like and yeah, and
you're like, yeah, so exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And she was like that you know, that's what I wanted,
and uh, and Arianna just just grabbed her finger, which.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Is really like she did that. I don't know where
that came from.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
She said she just wanted to know she was there.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
But it was rather than you know, like a whole rite.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I've seen people do pinkies too, like sometimes people are like,
I'm here for you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, but it was it was a perfect storm of
I've told people this, I'm a I'm a nerd. I
by when I went back to college, and I didn't
finish college until my thirties, I went full time. H
I love my alma mater, so I'll say the name
(28:36):
to Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts, and loved. I had
this film professor I adored. So I turned into a
really big critical film theory nerd, and so sometimes I
read film theory or just theory in general for pleasure.
And of course, being a film theory person, I had
(28:57):
to read Susan Sontag's Notes on Camp, which it really
was the first document to kind of excavate and try
to understand what is camp. And Susan Sontag says that
pure camp is unintentional. So if you go into a
project saying, oh I want this to be campy, that's
(29:17):
not the purest form of camp. Yeah, the purest form
of camp is something that is sincere and unintentionally funny.
And I think because the three of us were so sincere,
that's why it's really campy. I mean, that interview is
high camp, and it's because we all really were trying
(29:39):
to be there for each.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Right, Yeah, like you you were like I had great intentions.
Cynthia wanted to give you, a good answer, Mariana wanted
to be supportive. We were all there, yeah, being our
best selves. So to me, like that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Is hilarious to me that it became such a campy
thing and also why it's so big with queer media,
right like with queer people because of that high camp true,
because I think because the queer people can see the
campiness but also really appreciate the sentiments. So I think
(30:13):
that's why it landed. And you know, for all the
people who were kind of assholes about it or I
don't know what they mean, or they're all crazy, or
they're all out of touch, or they it's not for them.
I've been saying that since the beginning. It's not for you.
You can keep scrolling. It's fine. You know, It's been
(30:34):
an interesting thing because I honestly, I am a sensitive person.
I am a little probably vain, you know, I want
to look a certain way, and you know, those sorts
of things, and I didn't care. I did not care
about the haters, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So that's good. It really felt good. Yeah, it's hard
when you are put into a spot, the spotlight like that,
when you didn't tend to be obviously you know you'd
be on camera. You knew the interviews would come out,
but didn't know everyone was going to see it. No
I had thing to say.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I had no idea. And what helped me overcome any
self doubt I might have had is the queer community
and allies. People who enjoyed it, people who got joy
from it, people who I was at a conference in January,
(31:27):
and a lot of young queer people there. One woman
cried with me, young young person, a trans woman, and
she articulated that she kind of did a deep dive
on me and watched the way that I asked questions,
the kinds of questions that I ask and it meant
(31:49):
a lot to her. So she may not have known
of me before that, but she did do a dive
and that that whole process meant something to her. So
you know, that has been one of the biggest gifts
of my life is people sharing their stories about it
or you know, having a laugh sometimes. You know, I'll
(32:25):
walk into a party or a bar, and now people
are getting a little shy about it.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Oh really Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
In the beginning, it was just.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Like yeah, no, because it was so prevalent that it
was like, obviously, she'll love it if I go hold space. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So now people will chat with me for a while
and then maybe shyly ask for a picture or hold
the finger or something, and it's just a big laugh.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I would say, do you get tired of holding the finger?
I wouldn't. I feel like, it's so fun.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
This is so fun for me. I've been doing this
for so long, and you know, as Daniel had said
about other things, like it's become a part of the culture.
It's even Cynthia said that in an interview I think
it was with a complex recently, where she said that
(33:19):
it's become like a shorthand for something. So it's morphed
into something else, and I really love that. Yeah, I'm
not tired of it. I don't think I'll ever get
tired of it. It's it's not my Titanic.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Because I think Kate.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Winsle is tired, has said that she's tired of talking
about the the scene on the up front of the boat.
Oh that young yeah too, but this is not my Titanic.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's good, Yeah, because I do. I do get sad
when celebrities are like that sometimes, where like you know,
you're like, no, you have to be grateful for the
whatever shot you to fame, whatever you like your legacy is.
Which I get like that and always choose what they're like,
say it was going to be but right. You know,
it's hard when something has such an impact on the
fans and then the people don't want to really talk
(34:08):
about it anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So, I mean, if Kate Blanchett stops talking about Carol,
I'm just going to be bereft.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I will I was thinking about how we should talk
about Carol because I know that it means so much.
Y'alls like, how how should we bring this up? Because
I feel like it needs to be here.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's the tenth anniversary. Oh in November.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay, how are they celebrating? Do you know?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I don't know how they're celebrating, you know, how you're
we're trying to cook up some things. Oh, Okay, I'm
working with an influencer in New York to see if
we can get something going. Well okay, okay, clearly we'll
cover it on our sites and whatnot. But yeah, I
mean I wrote I just reread this story that I
(34:54):
wrote in twenty sixteen because I shared it with a
friend who also loves Carol, and it was an op
ed or a voice's piece, I guess we would call
it now, and it was titled how Carol Made Me
Want to Fall in Love Again, which you know, I
(35:14):
came out in the eighties. There was not a lot
for me to consume. Back then. There was nothing on TV.
There were films that I was not aware of until
I don't know, I was probably eighteen or nineteen when
I started to become aware of certain queer films, like
The Hunger with Catherdenev and Susan Sarandon. Catherdenov is a vampire,
(35:40):
so I became aware of that. I had like kind
of heard of Desert Hearts, but I didn't see it
for a long time, so I think, like probably The Hunger,
and then I have to go back and try to remember, Oh,
the color purple had some queerness and there was a
film called The Bostonians. I saw that in high school.
(36:00):
It was like a merchant Ivory film, you know, they
did sense and sensibility and yeah, so A Room with
a View was There's Morris. So there were some queer
films that I saw, but I didn't really know much
going in anyway. So, but Carol based on Patricia high
(36:23):
Smith's The Price of Salt, written in nineteen fifty two,
with its hopeful ending. I mean she wrote it under
a pseudonym, but this was a love story that had
a hopeful ending in nineteen fifty two at a time
when queer women especially either ended up married to a
man in a mental institution or dead, and here's this
(36:46):
open end where it's like, well, they may end up together.
So I had read the novel. I really like Patricia
Highsmith's writing. I've read The Talented Mister Ripley and Strangers
on a Train and all of those books. So I
had been following Carol for quite some time. There was
a different director attached in the beginning. Miya Wazakowsko was
(37:09):
supposed to play Therez for a while. I don't remember
when Kate came on. I think the lead role was
actually not cast for quite some time, and then it
kind of like for Shee Wired. I was writing about
this every time there was news, and Sarah Paulson was
attached at one point, you know, when she came on.
She had been attached for a while, I think, and
(37:29):
so I kept writing about it. And then of course
Todd Haynes, who at that time he's the director. His
film Far From Heaven had been MY favorite film up
until Carol came out. So I love Todd Haynes. I
loved his Bob Dylan film I'm Not There. I loved
Safe Velvet gold Mine. So just a big fan of his.
(37:52):
So as a film nerd, when this movie came out,
it's not just this seventh love story that I kind
of related to in a way because they did have
to feel each other out for what am I feeling?
What are they feeling? Like? That kind of close to
the vest was kind of how I had to be
(38:13):
when I came out, So it reminded me of that
in some way. I also love am I talking too
much about it?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
No? Fine, You're fine.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I also love It's funny because I remember when it
came out and people were really upset about the age difference.
Some people were not everyone, but I always felt like
Terrez even though she keeps saying throughout the movie, I
don't know what I want, she knows what she wants
from the minute she sees Carol. She goes to lunch,
(38:47):
she orders the Martini and the Spanish. I mean, she
orders what Carol orders, but that's what she wants. So
and she keeps saying she doesn't know, but every step
of the way she is surefooted. So I think there's
a real strength in her queerness. And she's also based
on high Smith. High Smith is theres on some level.
(39:11):
So I don't know. I just everything about the film
with Todd directing, because he's such an aeradyite director. I
mean just from the framing, the lighting, Sandy Powell's costumes,
Phyllis Naj's script ed, Lockman's cinematography, Carter Burwell's score, like
(39:31):
the whole thing coalesces into just something more than a
film for me. So I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
How passionate, you know, Like I'm like, go watch everyone
for the anniversary. If you had like for your like
letterboxed top four movies, is that number one for you? Yeah?
Do you know what the other ones would be.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Off the top of my head. The Wizard of Oz
has to be in there. It's always been a part
of my life since since before memory. I would say,
here's where the nerd comes in. I love Michelangelo Antonioni's
Red Desert, which is from nineteen sixty four. It's he's
(40:21):
obviously an Italian director and stars one of my favorite actresses,
Monica Vitti. She's just incredible to look at and the
she doesn't often say a lot, but she conveys so much.
So I really love that one, not being too much
(40:42):
of a nerd. Oh, I love love What's Up?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Doc?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
With Barber Streisen and Ryan O'Neil. Peter Bogdanovitch film that movie.
I watched it a couple summers ago. It makes me
cry with laughter. So the screwball comedy of it and
Barber Streisen is I think one of the best comedians
of all time. I wish she had done more comedy.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
She's great.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, so I think that's four. Yeah, it may change at.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Whenever those I'm always like that would be so hard.
I don't even I don't want to know what I
would say because I'm like a guilty, like chronically overwatcher
of like the same content kind of person sometimes, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
But so am I. Yeah, I have watched just so
I'm not always high highbrow. I have watched Pretty Little
Liars original three times through.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Love Pretty Little Liars.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I'm such a huge fan.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So good.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I did not love the ending, but I know it's fine. Yeah,
you know, the rest makes up for it.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
How could they keep that going for so long?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Well, I was not to say the amount of twists
they had. I know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I don't think they thought it was going to go
on for as long as it did.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Think they just kept getting picked up.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
True.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, So I rewatched that. I've seen The L Word,
I don't know, three or four times all the way through.
I in the Pandemic, watched Dairy Girls, Girls five EVA,
and What We Do in the Shadows probably three times through,
just because I love those comedies. And right now I
am rewatching The Bold Type. The Bold Type, Oh okay,
(42:24):
you no, I haven't watched that one. It was on
free Form. It's about three friends working a fashion magazine
that's kind of like Cosmo. One of them is in
the fashion department, one of them is a writer, and
one of them runs a social media campaign that one
is queer and there's this really beautiful sapphic relationship and
(42:45):
it introduced I think it's TV's first lesbian Muslim character.
Oh yeah, so and I love it. I love shows
about women's friendship and especially if there's you know, something
queer in it. Point so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I also love I love projects that have like journalist
women obviously, Like I've always seen people when they talk
about you know, like you watch all of the rom coms,
and it was always like a journalist and I'm like,
I really I love when I see those. They're just
so fun. I don't know, like Sex and the.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
City, Like Sex and the City.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, Like I was like, it's just such a fun time.
Did it make me be a journalist? Yes, you know,
but they're so good.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah. There was one a few years back. It only
got one season on Prime.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It was called Good Girls Revolt. I didn't see that
one was kind of there was a Nora Efron character
in it. It was good. Yeah, it's a period piece.
It takes place in the sixties, but yeah, no, I
love it.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Right, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
I should watch the ball time.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I will see it's so hard because I'm telling you, yeah,
with my like rewatching, and then you're always, of course,
like told you have to watch things.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
For work, But so what are you rewatching?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I don't know what am I rewatching right now. Unfortunately,
currently I'm not even in my rewatch era. I got
sucked into the Love Island drama.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Have you seen that? I can't do reality? You can't
do it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I never was a reality person because I never watched Survivor. Honestly,
I didn't really watch any kind of thing like that.
And then I just was feeling really left out on TikTok,
which is really just the problem with TikTok and everyone's
talking about I have to know.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's why I watched The Traders. Yeah, I did watch that.
I used to like Project Runway, Top Chef and I
liked the voice. Yeah, but then when it became more
about the backstory and creating a drama than the competition, I.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I Yeah, I used to watch like American Idol, so
you think you can dance with my family? Like those
were always great in the in the golden days. But yeah,
I haven't been a big reality TV.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
It's so formulaic and produced that's the thing with reality.
It's overly produced.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah. I did watch The Ultimatum Queer Love season one
and season two.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Don't Tell, Don't Tell David, don't tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
It's it's interesting, I mean for sure, Like yeah, like
it's fun to watch at times, but then I also
think about the people that are on it, and they're
like reality of what's going to happen to them when
they get off, which is scary.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Well, and then a friend of mine wrote a really
great piece. Her name is Marcy Bianco, and she wrote
a piece about how the queer ultimatum is really an
ultimatum for heteronormativity, and it's very smart piece and true.
It's very true, centering marriage and often stereotypes of gender
(45:47):
within relationships.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right, and just the idea that life is marriage and
family and nothing else kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, yeah, which is the opposite of being really queer,
I mean, is different than gay.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I have to read that because honestly, she's so smart,
just to kind of round us out going forward in
(46:24):
queer media, what are you really hoping to see?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
What am I hoping to see? H I'm hoping to
see queer audiences support us and you know, not just
my company, but whatever that looks like. Go to our websites,
make sure you're you know, giving us some traffic right
(46:49):
or follow us on social. We have a reader program
for the Advocate and where people can help support our quardar,
which is something you know, The Guardian has been doing
that for quite some time. So we're trying to go
directly to queer audiences to help us so that we
(47:11):
can give them the kind of stories that they want
to see. So we're interacting with our audiences more. I really,
I really want queer people to support us. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about Pride this year
and just how I felt that it felt very different
and it felt kind of isolating where I feel like
people weren't we weren't like gathering as much as we were,
and it was kind of yeah, like I just feel
like it wasn't as supportive as we've been, which I
don't know what's causing that, but we all just have
(47:43):
to be here for each other.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, I mean, especially now, I think there's probably a
tendency to want to isolate because things are so hard.
That's probably when we should lean into each other more.
I didn't go to any Pride festivals. This year, I
was on my way to New York for La Pride,
(48:07):
and then I was back here in LA for New
York Pride. But we did have our company had it's
our Pride of Broadway party, So we had this big,
beautiful party with our Pride cover stars, the Divas with
Megan Hilty and Leah Salonga, Malia Joy Moon and well
(48:29):
Adina and Kristen couldn't make it to the party, but
they were on the cover and Cynthia Nixon, who was
our Advocate cover star for Pride, was there. So it
was a really big, beautiful party that felt like a
great celebration to me. And then I just kept meeting
up with friends in New York at Don't Tell Mama,
and you know, kind of around queer spaces like a
(48:51):
piano bar where people were singing show too. It's just like,
so I felt very prideful and loved by community in
that moment. So that felt really good.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah. So it's just like the little things you don't need,
like the big.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Right, I didn't the big thing. Yeah, I will say
I love a small town pride. I'm a little not
great at the big ones because if there's not a
bathroom available.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
True.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
True, I have a very tiny bladder, and I'm like,
I need a restroom, handy. I don't want to be
miserable all day trying to find a bathroom.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Sure. I went to Weiho Pride and it was hot,
I was tired. There was porta potties so sometimes cool.
Yeah what am I doing exactly? So?
Speaker 2 (49:40):
You know, I kind of but a small town pride.
Love it.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
I haven't been to too many brides and I'll have
to check out a small town pride.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I went to. It was Sonoma County, oh Okay, and
it was in downtown Santa Rosa. This was two years ago.
I loved that one.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
It was just a lot of family, Yes, very intimate.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah, it was really really sweet and not super corporate
and although you know that's becoming a problem for all
pride now, but it wasn't super corporate based. It was
really very community based, which I think was the draw
for me.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Is there anything else you want to
share before we close out?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I think I would love to just urge people, as
you've said, to draw on community and to if you
are in a place of relative privilege like I am,
I consider myself that I am I have a job,
I you know, have been out for a long time.
(50:48):
I have people who support me, so I try to
help others. So if you are in a place of
relative privilege, please try to help other folks. And if
you need help, please try to reach out and lean
on each other. This is just seven months in, not
(51:09):
even no, not even six months into this administration, and
it's a hard, dark time. But also find joy when
you can have the laughter, because that's going to recharge
and help us keep fighting, because we're going to keep fighting.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah for sure, absolutely, Yeah, Okay to close us, not
to bring it all the way back to Wicked again,
but on Pride, I like to come out as something
on the show, and so this week I was trying
to think of what I wanted that to be, and
I was reflecting, and I just I wanted to come
(51:49):
out as someone who was very changed by Ariana Grande
singing the Wizard and I for NBC like that live
show she did, and I didn't really I didn't really
think about the impact that it had on me, like
with all of the Wicked stuff going on, Like I
knew she had was a longtime Wicked fan. But I
(52:09):
honestly I streamed like that version, specifically way too many times,
blasted the YouTube video in my car, sang along to
it like it really, it really did a number on me.
And again, I'm like, I didn't even think about deep
it went until I was thinking about it later, and
I was like, no, I sang that in the shower,
(52:29):
like that version like twenty times.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I know. I was like it really and I was like,
not to say that Cynthia's version is not good, but like,
for some reason, that Ariana one really it it stuck
with me.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
It landed with you at the time.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I know, I was really I was holding space for
it and I didn't I didn't even know it, but
like the lyrics were really were really hitting me that day.
Speaker 5 (52:54):
Yeah, or that month that I went what I don't
remember when she it was just a few years ago
for the anniversary and she Yeah, they did like a
Wicked performance and she sang that song for like a
live audience thing.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
She was wearing all green. I remember it vividly and yeah,
I'm like, I have to look up what date it was,
but I heard that performance and I was like, wow,
she really she really changed history.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I love it. Well, thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yes, I okay, Well it can be anything that if
you want to, I love that well.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I will do a sort of wicked related one as well.
I already came out as a lover of basically like
young adult or teen television with my pretty little liars
of Yes, I love to go down rabbit holes on
YouTube of voice teachers critiquing performances.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Oh my gosh, I've seen those. I've seen actually one
for that Ariana Grande performance.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah, I do a lot like I tend to go
into like, oh, do they have any Kelly Clarkson's because
I always love when people freak out about Kelly Clarkson's
voice is really good, the range, this range of styles.
So I have now probably watched I don't know, four
or five different voice teachers react to Cynthia and Ariana's
(54:24):
opening performance of the Oscars this year, where Ariana did
Over the Rainbow, Cynthia did Home from the Wiz, and
then they did define Gravity. I was lucky enough to
be in the room when they performed.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
And where it happened.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, yes, good musical deer. I love Hamilton, but yeah,
so I will come out as someone who is addicted
to watching voice teachers loser shit over Cynthia and Arianna's
opening number at the Oscars.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yeah, I mean, and as they should. As they should.
But you took vocal classes too.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Right, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
I was studying voice why. I was an actor when
I was young, and I did theater in high school.
I traveled with a rock and sorry a theater company
on a rock and roll bus in my early twenties
for a time. And I love to sing. I was
always the best singer at girl Scout camp where we
(55:22):
were just sitting around a fire and I was singing
folk songs. But I love to sing. I think I
have a pretty good instrument, but I don't trust my
ear really well, so I'm super shy about singing in public,
although few old fashions and you can get me on
a karaoke.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Mic karaoke, We'll have to do that.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah. So I did take vocal lessons for a while,
and I may start up again. I put it on
pause for a bit, but it's good. I actually did
a vocal warm up on my way here so that
my voice would be warm while I spoke.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I remember my I had a college professor that taught
me to do vocal warm ups when I was doing
the radio over there. Yeah, still do them all the
time because they're really good. Especially I get like energy
in your voice, right, they teach you that. But then
sometimes I just feel like I'm channeling Sharpey Evans from
high school musical. I don't know if you know that
little cut where she's like like, I feel like that's
(56:20):
me in the car. But I mean, that's what you
have to do. But I'm like, I'm just having my
little Sharpei moment.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I did my lip trills on the.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Way over exactly. Yeah, like it does really help though.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, it's good. It's good. It works, and I wasn't
and even like you know, as I'm getting older, i am.
I was even able to work on my upper range,
so that's good. I'll probably go back to it. Right now,
I am taking ukulele lessons, so watch out.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
She always has a new skill every time I see you.
You're like this week, I'm doing ballet, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Oh, I was taking tap. Yeah, okay, I was taking tap,
except my my tap school clothes. Another one. Oh yeah,
So now I'm taking ukulele lessons, which watch out if
I come to a party, I need annoy everyone with
ukulele song.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
It would not be annoying. I would love that. I
just what song are we learning?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Oh? Okay, probably songs that most people don't know. You
have to kind of be folk Americana to know. So
I'm working on a couple different ones. Well, I can
do Leaving on a jet Plane, which is an old
folk song.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
John Denver wrote that one, and that's like a basic
three chord down down, up, up down. It's pretty easy,
so I can do that. I'm working on two others.
One is called Angel from Sorry, Angel from Montgomery. It
was written by John Prine and famously recorded by Bonnie
Rait and I love that song. It's beautiful. And then
(57:54):
I'm also working on one called I Wish It Would
Rain by one of my favorite singer songwriters who's not
very well known, and her name is Nancy Griffith.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So yeah, you'll need to learn a wicked song so
you can go to the premiere, Yes and play for Cynthia.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Right, Yes, that's not a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
I really think that it would be good if you
could like play her riff on the ukulele. That would
be good, that.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
Would maybe possible, but also sort of. So my ukulele
teacher also does. Her name is well, her YouTube site,
I'm gonna give her a shout out is Ukulele Wine Time, Okay,
And she became my teacher because I loved her style
so much that I reached out and asked if she
would become my teacher. So we do assume she's in Hudson,
(58:43):
New York. But she was teaching Brandy Carlyle's You and
Me on the Rock and also the High Women Crowded Table,
so those are a little more contemporary still Americana. But anyway,
so that's how I found my ukulele.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
Teacher that I'll have to look. I don't know if
I'll do ukulele, but I need to just find a
new a new skill.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I really really haven't. Yeah, it's taking a while, like
to do it right because she's teaching me how to
do my clockhand on my strumming hand, and you know,
I just want to get.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
In there and yeah sing, I know I'm impatient when
I'm learning things.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
But to do it correctly, it is a process, but
I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, so watch out.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
I'm ready. I'm telling you there's gonna be karaoke ukulelean
in our future. Yeah, why not? I'd love to tap
I was just I was just talking to the Zombies
cast the other week and they do tap in that
and they they said the phrase tap in the trap. Oh,
I don't no clue what that means. I was wondering
(59:48):
if it's.
Speaker 2 (59:48):
A Google it. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
I don't know, I don't it's it was funny though,
so but apparently it's not well known. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I mean, I'm not an expert. I'm not Sutton Foster yet.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Yes, has anyone asked you to do the the art
our Cynthia Riff when they ask you to hold space?
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Oh so I am on cameo, oh so you do
it over there? One person asked me to do it,
and I did. Yeah. I also have been because it's
a lot of gig guys. So I've been asked to like,
could you tell someone that you're holding space for their juicy?
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Sure, so I've done.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I'm you know, I'm like, you know, You're like, why not?
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
If it brings people joy? Part of me was like,
oh God, is this going to be like edited out
of context, and then I'm going to go viral for
saying something really vile.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah. I mean at that point you have to worry
about like AI getting to you and being able to
steal your voice and make you all kinds of stuff.
So I think you're.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna live with it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
I meant to ask you earlier, like if you had
crazy fan encounters, but I feel like that is a
pretty interesting I've had that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I when we had our Pride of Broadway, I had
this this woman who was on in a show actually
the Turn Company of Oklahoma. Here I walked in and
she freaked out, which was really cute, I mean, because
she's a performer. And then I was at the Whole
(01:01:33):
Foods in Brentwood, which I walk up to from my house.
I live in West LA, just like North and it
was in the winter. It was raining. I had on
yoga pants like hiking boots because they're kind of waterproof,
a rain coat, my hair was flat, no makeup, and
(01:01:54):
walking through the Whole Foods in this woman who was
with her male partner, lost her shit when she saw me,
like screamed, hugged me, asked for a photo, held my finger,
hugged me again, and her partner was like, oh, yeah,
she's got the T shirt, you know. So that was
(01:02:17):
that was a fun one in the wild and then
oh I did get This was really fun for me
because it was so long after when I was in
New York. I was walking through Hell's Kitchen and someone
stopped me and said, on the street.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I got stopped on the street.
Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
That made me so happy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the
show with us. Thank you for all you do for
the industry. I can't wait to see Wicked Part two.
What's going to stir up with that? Like it's almost
Wicked season again, which is almost here. So exciting, It's
so close, I.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Know, yeah, so weird. This year is flown by I know,
it really has. Yeah. Well, Caitlin, thank you for having me.
And also you're really good at this, so you are
you are in queer media.
Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
I try to be in queer media. But thank you
so much from the queen of queer media. You know,
make sure you follow Tracy, follow the Advocate out Pride
and then subscribe to Pride wherever you get your podcasts,
wherever you listen to podcasts, follow us on social at Pride,
(01:03:27):
anything else you want to shout.
Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Out, No, I just want to say thank you and
tell everybody to celebrate themselves. Yes, all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Yeah, not just during Pride month all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah,
Strawut media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I mean that interview is high camp because we all
really were trying to be there for each.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Right, Yeah, like you you were like, I had great intention,
Cynthia wanted to give you a good answer, Marianna wanted
to be supportive. We were all there.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Arianna just just grabbed her finger, which is.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
A Mariana really like she did that.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hi, I'm Kitlyn McDaniel. Welcome back to the Pride Podcast.
I'm so excited for this week's episode because we are
going to be holding space as we do. We hold
space here. My guest is Tracy Gilchrist. Hi. Hi, which
you may know from the viral moment with Arianna and
Cynthia Arrivo. Yes, yeah, we have to we have to
(01:00):
enter that. But also you've been doing so much for
queer media for decades and you're currently with Equal Pride
doing amazing stuff. So thank you for all that you do.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh well, thank you. I mean, we are in queer
media together, We are all in queer media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It really is like such a bomb though, Like I
have talked to people that are also in queer media,
and you know, it sounds like such a joke to
be like, oh, we're in cleer media, but it's really
so true that we have to stay bonded, especially now
because it's there's a lot against us.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, and I think it's important that we are telling
our stories and ensuring that they're covered holistically as opposed
to you know, say, the coverage that the New York
Times did for a year leading up to this election,
where they were trying to both sides trans issues and
(01:54):
the science doesn't bear out so and because of that coverage,
it was just named in the Scrimmetti case on gender
firming care. So it really matters. So you know, that
is to not get too serious too soon, but to
say thank you as well for all that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Thank you. Yeah, no, I know. I mean I love
doing it and love having these conversations. I'm sure you
do too, But it can it can be rough.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Sometimes it's really hard to cover your community. I've I've
covered things from you know, marriage equality to pulse to
many elections, some really joyful and some like just gut punches.
And you know, I've been in newsrooms where people have
(02:44):
broken down and have cried, and you know, but at
the end of the the day, get up and get
the job done. But it is really emotional to try
to work through what feel like direct well what our
direct attacks on the LGBTQ plus community. So yeah, I
feel you on that one.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, and you've been in queer media for a while.
What can you say about how it has looked in
the past and how it looks today.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, when I started, I was I mean, I think
I was writing on a tangerine Uh what were they
called eyebook? I think it was called an eyebook. It
was it was a laptop. Oh okay, it was like
kind of translucent, but then there's like a tangerine. Mine
was tangerine. They also had pink and like a teal color,
(03:35):
and I think a green. It was an early.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Mac mon top, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, and it had a handle.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Like a per like everything's like silver and boring nowadays.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Actually, Carrie, Carrie Bradshaw had the blue one in the
first season of Sex and the City, the Originals in
the City. Yeah, and it's sad maced so she had
to go get another one, and I think then she
got the boring one. But but yeah, so I would
type on that and it had a disk drive, and
then I would have to take the disc somewhere to
(04:13):
print out the paper and then give it to my
editor at this magazine where I worked in Hartford, Connecticut.
I didn't work there. I did it for free concert
tickets and tickets to the theater. I didn't get paid
for a long time, and I would just give her
sheets of paper that then went into this magazine, metro
(04:34):
Line magazine that for a long time I had picked up,
Like you know, I'd be at the gay bar, you'd
be walking out the door, pick up metro Line, toss
it in the car and read it at some point.
But it was our local LGBTQ. Well you would. We
wouldn't have called it that then. It was a local
gay magazine at that time. So it was very different
(04:56):
then because the Internet was around, but there were not
websites like we have now. I mean, everything's digitally driven now.
Well now that's even changing, right. So I really started
full time in queer media in two thousand and eight
when I became the editor in chief of she wired
dot com, which was kind of part of our suite
(05:19):
of sites which include well actually she wired became Pride
dot com. And then you know, we've had out in
the Advocate, owned by the same company for quite some time.
So I was hired to run she wired the Saffic site,
and that was purely digital. We also worked without in
(05:42):
the Advocate, which have a print component, So pretty much
then it was digital and print and even social media.
Like I don't think Twitter was even much of a
thing when I started, so we weren't even thinking about
how to promote on social media. We were going primarily
off of Google SEO and kind of a word of
(06:07):
mouth and maybe email campaigns and newsletters. So it's changed
a lot, as it's changed for all of media because
you have become so much more savvy now. And now,
of course the problem is how do you get people
to your site because nobody wants Personally, I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Go to any websites now.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I look at Apple News. I do. I know, I
just bad mouth The New York Times, but I do
still have a subscription to the New York Times. I
grew up in Connecticut and it was, you know, that
arts and Entertainment section in the Sunday paper was like
very queer media to me, right, I would pick it
(06:49):
up and read all about Broadway and theater, which at
a very young age was important to me. So to me,
I think that was kind of early queer media was
that entertainment, that big, thick arts and entertainment section on Sunday.
So I still go with the New York Times, although
I have at times really thought that I should not anymore.
(07:11):
So the changes are, you know, also about identity. Like
I said, back when I started, we would have called
it a gay magazine, and then I did work for
Curve at it for a time in the mid os,
which is that was a national lesbian magazine. Now we
would probably call that saffok. We weren't super I mean,
(07:35):
where we did cover various identities, we weren't super cautious
about kind of the overarching the umbrellas of people's identities.
And I think we're much more aware and inclusive than
we were back then, trying to use well, queer obviously
(07:56):
is an umbrella term, and LGBTQ plays us or whichever
form of that is the style of a magazine. So
I think the identity wise, we've really shifted. And also
I think we're talking about gender a lot more than
we ever did. Trans folks were a little invisible in
some of that early coverage, so I think that shifted
(08:20):
probably around I think I started to see a shift
at least where I worked with this editor, Lucas Gridley,
who made a concerted effort to put trans issues first
and foremost for The Advocate. It was probably around twenty
eleven twenty twelve. So those are some of the changes
that I've seen.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yea, and you said you started with She Wired, like
that was kind of the beginning for the well.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I started with metro Line magazine for Queer Media. Then
I went to in Newsweek, in Newsweekly out of Boston,
which was regional, and then I these these were freelance,
freelanced for Curve for quite time. I worked for a
daily newspaper in Connecticut for a while, which really spurred
me to move to LA because I was like, I'm
(09:07):
going to die if I stay. If i have to
listen to one more Board of Education meeting, oh, I'm
not going to survive. But I think that was really
helpful in terms of teaching me how to be a
reporter and to edit myself, et cetera. So that was
valuable even if it was also the catalyst that brought
me to LA. So you know, I can't be mad
(09:29):
at that, So yeah, I did that. I came to
LA I was an editor for a part time editor.
I can't remember what the title was. She Wired previously
was Lesbiananation dot com and that was god. I think
that was built in the late nineties, so it was
(09:50):
one of the first lesbian websites ever. But it really
needed to refresh, so they brought me in to refresh that.
So I was with she Wired and then and I
was on Pride for we You know, it's no secret
it's hard to get eyes on saffic content, even though
saffis are probably the most loyal fan base, but it's
(10:14):
really hard to find and build that audience, and it's
also tough to get advertisers to get on board with it,
even though women are some of the most loyal consumers
out there. So at some point we were just like, Okay,
we'll just change she Wired's trajectory and now we're going
(10:34):
to make it for millennials, which at the time were
kind of the youngest adults. So I was on Pride
for a year. Then I became The Advocate's first ever
feminism editor, which I did for a couple of years,
and in the pandemic or just ahead of the pandemic.
(10:55):
I was an editor in chief of The Advocate, So
that was aallenge trying to learn how to do print
production in a pandemic alone with my cat, with everything
else going.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
On, right, and you're like, this is what I have
to focus.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
On, and I'm trying to learn. You know, I know
how to edit, I know how to do a feature story,
but fitting everything in, you know, copy fitting and what
is kerning and what are widows and orphans? I hadn't
paid attention to those terms, and so just learning all
of that, learning a little bit of in design. We
(11:32):
had this arcane dropbox system that I had to learn,
so that was really quite a challenge. Yeah, so that's
kind of it. I did go for a time over
to Advocate Channel, which when Equal Pride bought our company,
they launched Advocate Channel, which was very video based, kind
(11:53):
of news based, So I was doing Equal entertainment kind
of interviewing people on camera every day and reading some
news headlines. And then a year ago in June, I
came back to the editorial side as VP of Editorial
and Special Projects. So long time, lots of titles under
(12:17):
these brands so I've done it all pretty much.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I wanted to ask, just because
you do have some of these amazing positions where you
really were trying to bring queer women into the spotlight,
which I feel like is still an ongoing problem that
I see. And I haven't been in the industry that
long yet. It's just always a battle to make sure
that they're seen and heard and represented in all these platforms,
(12:41):
and I feel like we don't have a spot now
that really is just for that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Even Yeah, I think auto Straddle is probably the I
think it's the last remaining site that's based in this country.
I know that Diva Magazine is still doing its thing
in England, but I feel like the saffics have moved
to TikTok and Instagram accounts got them such a Dike
(13:09):
and Saffic Sandwich, And I mean there's some really great influencers,
some very very funny, smart Saffic comedians who are building
huge audiences on TikTok and Instagram. But yeah, in terms
of getting news to saffis, it's really a challenge and
(13:30):
it's always something I keep pushing it. I keep writing
those stories even if they don't always find us. I
still want it to be a part of the history.
I always say this with our magazines, especially because with
the Internet, with online I'm like, what is going to
(13:51):
exist in a hundred years. I've already seen, Like I
worked on Shee Wired for eight years. When that got
moved over to Pride, a lot of that cod was lost.
It's just lost. So that felt really hard personally, but
also all that history, and so I love that we
(14:13):
still make a print magazine. We have out an Advocate
and they are called the flip book. Now it's one
book and you get out and then you turn it over,
flip it around and there's the Advocate. So that is
kind of a new model. But I always tell our
writers when you're writing a story, when you're considering the
(14:33):
story you're telling, not too much pressure. But I think
it's really special and it makes me feel like I'm
doing something really worthwhile. But I always think, think about
in a hundred years, somebody opens the One arch It's
called the One Institute, but it used to be the
One Archives. Right this LGBTQ plus Archive housed at USC
(14:58):
right here in LA. Somebody opens that vault and you're
on You're on the record. You're part of queer history.
You're writing, your storytelling is a part of that queer history,
and I think that's really beautiful. So it inspires me
to always do my best, even when I'm tired, even
when I want to take shortcuts. That notion of being
(15:23):
a part of the queer record is so important to
me that I try to always go the extra step.
So I love that our magazines are a physical copy
that can be discovered and you know, I don't know,
maybe be in museums in the future.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I mean that is what's lost now with nothing being
printed or being like really tangible. Yeah, like fully there
all the time, because with social media it all feel
so fleeting all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, but you know, I love.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
That that idea that it's going to live there and
be there for other people to see.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's inspiring to me. One of my colleagues,
Daniel Reynolds, he runs you know, Daniel, he's the editor
(16:23):
in chief of Out and we've worked together, gosh, I
think since twenty thirteen now, and I don't know. I
think I was having like a rough time during the
pandemic where it's like, what am I doing doing with
my life. I'm sitting in this apartment in West LA
with my cat and you know, like just and at
(16:44):
one point he said, Tracy, we changed culture. People have
come out to us, and you know that really impacted
the way that I was thinking at the time, because
I was just like, ugh, what should I be doing
with my life?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean I wanted to ask if there
was throughout your career a time where you really like
felt like, yeah, no, I'm making a difference, like in
this moment, whether it was someone you were talking to
or a story you did, and after it happened, you
were like, no, this this means something.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, I I mean, gosh, I've written so many stories
sometimes I feel as though I'm writing these stories in
a vacuum.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
For instance, very few people realized that part of the
reason that viral moment happened was because I had already
interviewed Cynthia Arriva for an hour over Zoom and written
like a twenty five hundred word cover story on her
for the Out one hundred. She was our Out one
(17:46):
hundred icon of the year, and so when I walked
into the room with her and Ariana, it was already
kind of warm, Like we exchanged a few words, and
you know from doing junkets that that goes a long
way if you have a little rapport walking into the room.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, they can be scary too, Yeah, it can be scary. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So but you know, I walked into that room and
she said, Oh, it's so good to see you again.
I said, you know, we just had this moment and
I hadn't met Ariana before, but she complimented my pink
and green. But she saw that Cynthia and I had
already kind of formed something. So even if we didn't
fully understand one another, like we were all kind of
(18:27):
operating from different places, in that moment, there was there.
I do feel like there was a sense of like
caring for one another, which I think shines through So anyway,
that is to say that a lot of people don't
know that I wrote this big story on Cynthia, which
I spent so much time in care on. But it's
(18:51):
all part of, you know, the process, so I haven't
I sometimes get people coming up to me and saying, oh,
I'm really a fan of your your writing, or I
actually was at a spin class the other day where
I forgot this woman I now know her from riding
bikes and a's life cycle, But I first met her
(19:13):
because she met a friend of mine and they were
talking about this Brandy Carlyle story which she really loved,
and it happened to be a cover story I wrote
about Brandy Carlyle. So it's lovely to hear that from people.
In the past, I have occasionally gotten folks thanking me
for my work and amplifying queer storytellers, queer artists, But
(19:36):
obviously the most impactful inspirational moments have come since I
went viral. Yeah, but yeah, so, because sometimes it did
feel like, is anybody reading I'm screaming into the vois
paying attention?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And then all of a sudden, everyone's paying attention. Yeah, great,
thank you, I've been here. Yes, I've been doing this
for a while, right.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
One of the things that came out of it, though,
is there were a lot of folks who said, you
deserve this moment. You've been doing this work for so long. Congratulations,
you know. Some some came and said, I've been I've
been a fan of your work for a long time.
I'm glad this happened for you. So people were speaking
up a little bit and kind of validating the work
(20:22):
that I'd been doing for a long time. So that
was that was really nice.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah, it's good to hear. You should have said
that earlier, but thank you for saying it now. I mean,
where have you been?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's I I would like to say that I don't
need validation. We all do, but it is nice to
know that that it's reaching people. I don't need huge compliments.
I just want to know because with traffic as a measure,
sometimes the stupidest thing is going to get loads of
(20:56):
traffic and sits of approbation. It's like, oh my god,
you got so much traffic, and it's like, okay, that
story took twenty five minutes to post, right to write
and post, whereas this other thing.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, this feature I did, Yeah, this three weeks of research.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
She searching and yeah, picking the quotes and thinking about
like it's just all of that. And so the Internet
is a really weird measure of success. Right, Like I
could post I don't know, twelve shirtless pictures of Jonathan Bailey,
and that's going to do better than my twenty five
hundred of course word feature story on Cynthia Arrivo. That's
(21:39):
the way the internet works, which you know, whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right, we all love Jonathan, but also yeah, yeah, we're
you're talking about, you know, a queer woman being thrown
to the side, and it's like, well, right, it is no.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
No, I mean Jonathan, you know, at least he is
a queer man. But he's okonderful Dylan Ephron. Dylan Efron,
you know, got a lot of traffic and I'm like, great,
he's a straight guy. He took his shirt off and yeah,
arched his Yeah, okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We have to play the games sometimes and also sometimes
the games are weird.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
They are weird. But I mean, look, I I think
if you know, if people are finding their sexuality through
an attraction to Dylan Ephron, well then that's useful, I suppose.
But you know, it's it's just not balanced. It's like, yeah,
I know, I don't have to tell you no.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And I was like, nothing against Dylan. Keep going off.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's lovely, he came to the blad Awards. He's supporting
the community.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
True, yeah, yeah, seems great. But yeah, you're just like,
we're just trying to spotlight all people, yes, especially in
the community. Yes, right, right, And you talked about your
viral moment, and I know we've talked about it before,
but I really just want to ask, like, what was
going through your mind when all of that was happening.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Like initial, well, as I said, I had interviewed Cynthia,
I went in there, I had four minutes with them.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I want he's always crazy. When they first told me
you have four minutes, I was like, there's just what
am I going to do? But sometimes now it feels long.
So it really is a weird. It's weird sense.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It depends because sometimes well you know that when you
get a junket, you get who you get right, and
you'll be like, well, I really want this person, Well
can you also interview this person who's not queer? Doesn't
you know, maybe an actor who is a out role right,
or or it's like an actor who's not known for
(23:37):
even being semi political. Like if I go into a
room with someone like like I just interviewed Charlie's Theron,
she's political, she's played queer roles. She you know, she
speaks out, so I'm not worried about whether or not
she's going to answer a question about you know, queer
(23:58):
identity or gender or whatever. But I have had some
where they're just they just don't they just don't bite.
So and that feels like a very long time. So anyway,
when I went into the room, as I said it was,
we had a little exchange. I went to Ariana. I
(24:19):
asked her about the scene in the oz dust Ballroom
and when Glinda comes around and supports Alphabet after she's
ostracized her, and also that's the start of this platonic
love story. And Arianna really gave a beautiful, beautiful answer.
(24:43):
And so by the time I got to Cynthia, I
wanted to be sure that I asked her something I
hadn't asked her in our our long zoom college, which
is hard.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I covered, yeah, We've covered a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And it was two days after the election, the reelection
of Donald Trump. And anyone who's seen Wicked knows that
this story in part is about an othered person who,
at the moment they come into their full power, is
exiled by a kind of fascist leader. So this is
(25:19):
a very relevant story. And so you know, with very
little time to explain all that or to tee up
the question, I thought I could shorthand it like this week,
people are really holding Space of the lyrics of Defying Gravity,
because that morning I saw Tony Morrison, who I imagine
(25:42):
you know, Tony from Glad. So Tony Morrison from Glad
had literally posted the lyrics of Defying Gravity on Instagram
and I can't remember the caption exactly, but it was
like something along the lines of this hits differently today.
So I had seen that just maybe while I was
(26:03):
waiting to go in. So I think I actually changed
my answer for Cynthia or started. I teed it up differently.
So the question was, you know, this week people are
holding space with the lyrics of define Gravity, and what
does it mean to you as a queer black woman
that this song that has meant so much to othered
(26:27):
and queer people for twenty years is now may now
take on a new life? Like that was essentially the question, right,
But I didn't even like the question did not go viral,
just the teeing up part because she had such a
big reaction, and so you know, I didn't know that
was happening, and I went in my brain, I went,
(26:50):
oh shit, well it's not a big thing. I saw
it on Tony Moore and this is me. You can
almost see my head going because I'm thinking, I don't
want to mislead.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Right, you know, I don't want to and like everyone,
you're like, I don't want to say something that, like
I know, is not true. I'm not trying to say that.
I'm trying to say this, but it's hard to get
your point across.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
So, you know, Tony posted the lyrics. I had been
seeing lots of excitement about Wicked all, you know, so
so then I'm like trying to manage Cynthia's expectations. And
that was when I kind of dialed it back and said, well,
you know, I've seen it. I've seen it, yeah, a
couple of posts. I'm in queer media.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You can see me just trying.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I can see now hearing this backstory, like I've seen
you do a couple of interviews and stuff. But now
hearing that backstory is like, your response is made perfect
sense to be like, no, I've seen it. I'm in
queer media. That's where it's at, like and yeah, and
you're like, yeah, so exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
And she was like that you know, that's what I wanted,
and uh, and Arianna just just grabbed her finger, which.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Is really like she did that. I don't know where
that came from.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
She said she just wanted to know she was there.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
But it was rather than you know, like a whole rite.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I've seen people do pinkies too, like sometimes people are like,
I'm here for you.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, but it was it was a perfect storm of
I've told people this, I'm a I'm a nerd. I
by when I went back to college, and I didn't
finish college until my thirties, I went full time. H
I love my alma mater, so I'll say the name
(28:36):
to Mount Holyoke College in Massachusetts, and loved. I had
this film professor I adored. So I turned into a
really big critical film theory nerd, and so sometimes I
read film theory or just theory in general for pleasure.
And of course, being a film theory person, I had
(28:57):
to read Susan Sontag's Notes on Camp, which it really
was the first document to kind of excavate and try
to understand what is camp. And Susan Sontag says that
pure camp is unintentional. So if you go into a
project saying, oh I want this to be campy, that's
(29:17):
not the purest form of camp. Yeah, the purest form
of camp is something that is sincere and unintentionally funny.
And I think because the three of us were so sincere,
that's why it's really campy. I mean, that interview is
high camp, and it's because we all really were trying
(29:39):
to be there for each.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Right, Yeah, like you you were like I had great intentions.
Cynthia wanted to give you, a good answer, Mariana wanted
to be supportive. We were all there, yeah, being our
best selves. So to me, like that.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Is hilarious to me that it became such a campy
thing and also why it's so big with queer media,
right like with queer people because of that high camp true,
because I think because the queer people can see the
campiness but also really appreciate the sentiments. So I think
(30:13):
that's why it landed. And you know, for all the
people who were kind of assholes about it or I
don't know what they mean, or they're all crazy, or
they're all out of touch, or they it's not for them.
I've been saying that since the beginning. It's not for you.
You can keep scrolling. It's fine. You know, It's been
(30:34):
an interesting thing because I honestly, I am a sensitive person.
I am a little probably vain, you know, I want
to look a certain way, and you know, those sorts
of things, and I didn't care. I did not care
about the haters, not at all.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So that's good. It really felt good. Yeah, it's hard
when you are put into a spot, the spotlight like that,
when you didn't tend to be obviously you know you'd
be on camera. You knew the interviews would come out,
but didn't know everyone was going to see it. No
I had thing to say.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I had no idea. And what helped me overcome any
self doubt I might have had is the queer community
and allies. People who enjoyed it, people who got joy
from it, people who I was at a conference in January,
(31:27):
and a lot of young queer people there. One woman
cried with me, young young person, a trans woman, and
she articulated that she kind of did a deep dive
on me and watched the way that I asked questions,
the kinds of questions that I ask and it meant
(31:49):
a lot to her. So she may not have known
of me before that, but she did do a dive
and that that whole process meant something to her. So
you know, that has been one of the biggest gifts
of my life is people sharing their stories about it
or you know, having a laugh sometimes. You know, I'll
(32:25):
walk into a party or a bar, and now people
are getting a little shy about it.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Oh really Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
In the beginning, it was just.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Like yeah, no, because it was so prevalent that it
was like, obviously, she'll love it if I go hold space. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
So now people will chat with me for a while
and then maybe shyly ask for a picture or hold
the finger or something, and it's just a big laugh.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I would say, do you get tired of holding the finger?
I wouldn't. I feel like, it's so fun.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
This is so fun for me. I've been doing this
for so long, and you know, as Daniel had said
about other things, like it's become a part of the culture.
It's even Cynthia said that in an interview I think
it was with a complex recently, where she said that
(33:19):
it's become like a shorthand for something. So it's morphed
into something else, and I really love that. Yeah, I'm
not tired of it. I don't think I'll ever get
tired of it. It's it's not my Titanic.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Because I think Kate.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Winsle is tired, has said that she's tired of talking
about the the scene on the up front of the boat.
Oh that young yeah too, but this is not my Titanic.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's good, Yeah, because I do. I do get sad
when celebrities are like that sometimes, where like you know,
you're like, no, you have to be grateful for the
whatever shot you to fame, whatever you like your legacy is.
Which I get like that and always choose what they're like,
say it was going to be but right. You know,
it's hard when something has such an impact on the
fans and then the people don't want to really talk
(34:08):
about it anymore.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So, I mean, if Kate Blanchett stops talking about Carol,
I'm just going to be bereft.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I will I was thinking about how we should talk
about Carol because I know that it means so much.
Y'alls like, how how should we bring this up? Because
I feel like it needs to be here.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's the tenth anniversary. Oh in November.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay, how are they celebrating? Do you know?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I don't know how they're celebrating, you know, how you're
we're trying to cook up some things. Oh, Okay, I'm
working with an influencer in New York to see if
we can get something going. Well okay, okay, clearly we'll
cover it on our sites and whatnot. But yeah, I
mean I wrote I just reread this story that I
(34:54):
wrote in twenty sixteen because I shared it with a
friend who also loves Carol, and it was an op
ed or a voice's piece, I guess we would call
it now, and it was titled how Carol Made Me
Want to Fall in Love Again, which you know, I
(35:14):
came out in the eighties. There was not a lot
for me to consume. Back then. There was nothing on TV.
There were films that I was not aware of until
I don't know, I was probably eighteen or nineteen when
I started to become aware of certain queer films, like
The Hunger with Catherdenev and Susan Sarandon. Catherdenov is a vampire,
(35:40):
so I became aware of that. I had like kind
of heard of Desert Hearts, but I didn't see it
for a long time, so I think, like probably The Hunger,
and then I have to go back and try to remember, Oh,
the color purple had some queerness and there was a
film called The Bostonians. I saw that in high school.
(36:00):
It was like a merchant Ivory film, you know, they
did sense and sensibility and yeah, so A Room with
a View was There's Morris. So there were some queer
films that I saw, but I didn't really know much
going in anyway. So, but Carol based on Patricia high
(36:23):
Smith's The Price of Salt, written in nineteen fifty two,
with its hopeful ending. I mean she wrote it under
a pseudonym, but this was a love story that had
a hopeful ending in nineteen fifty two at a time
when queer women especially either ended up married to a
man in a mental institution or dead, and here's this
(36:46):
open end where it's like, well, they may end up together.
So I had read the novel. I really like Patricia
Highsmith's writing. I've read The Talented Mister Ripley and Strangers
on a Train and all of those books. So I
had been following Carol for quite some time. There was
a different director attached in the beginning. Miya Wazakowsko was
(37:09):
supposed to play Therez for a while. I don't remember
when Kate came on. I think the lead role was
actually not cast for quite some time, and then it
kind of like for Shee Wired. I was writing about
this every time there was news, and Sarah Paulson was
attached at one point, you know, when she came on.
She had been attached for a while, I think, and
(37:29):
so I kept writing about it. And then of course
Todd Haynes, who at that time he's the director. His
film Far From Heaven had been MY favorite film up
until Carol came out. So I love Todd Haynes. I
loved his Bob Dylan film I'm Not There. I loved
Safe Velvet gold Mine. So just a big fan of his.
(37:52):
So as a film nerd, when this movie came out,
it's not just this seventh love story that I kind
of related to in a way because they did have
to feel each other out for what am I feeling?
What are they feeling? Like? That kind of close to
the vest was kind of how I had to be
(38:13):
when I came out, So it reminded me of that
in some way. I also love am I talking too
much about it?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
No? Fine, You're fine.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I also love It's funny because I remember when it
came out and people were really upset about the age difference.
Some people were not everyone, but I always felt like
Terrez even though she keeps saying throughout the movie, I
don't know what I want, she knows what she wants
from the minute she sees Carol. She goes to lunch,
(38:47):
she orders the Martini and the Spanish. I mean, she
orders what Carol orders, but that's what she wants. So
and she keeps saying she doesn't know, but every step
of the way she is surefooted. So I think there's
a real strength in her queerness. And she's also based
on high Smith. High Smith is theres on some level.
(39:11):
So I don't know. I just everything about the film
with Todd directing, because he's such an aeradyite director. I
mean just from the framing, the lighting, Sandy Powell's costumes,
Phyllis Naj's script ed, Lockman's cinematography, Carter Burwell's score, like
(39:31):
the whole thing coalesces into just something more than a
film for me. So I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
How passionate, you know, Like I'm like, go watch everyone
for the anniversary. If you had like for your like
letterboxed top four movies, is that number one for you? Yeah?
Do you know what the other ones would be.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Off the top of my head. The Wizard of Oz
has to be in there. It's always been a part
of my life since since before memory. I would say,
here's where the nerd comes in. I love Michelangelo Antonioni's
Red Desert, which is from nineteen sixty four. It's he's
(40:21):
obviously an Italian director and stars one of my favorite actresses,
Monica Vitti. She's just incredible to look at and the
she doesn't often say a lot, but she conveys so much.
So I really love that one, not being too much
(40:42):
of a nerd. Oh, I love love What's Up?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Doc?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
With Barber Streisen and Ryan O'Neil. Peter Bogdanovitch film that movie.
I watched it a couple summers ago. It makes me
cry with laughter. So the screwball comedy of it and
Barber Streisen is I think one of the best comedians
of all time. I wish she had done more comedy.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
She's great.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah, so I think that's four. Yeah, it may change at.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Whenever those I'm always like that would be so hard.
I don't even I don't want to know what I
would say because I'm like a guilty, like chronically overwatcher
of like the same content kind of person sometimes, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
But so am I. Yeah, I have watched just so
I'm not always high highbrow. I have watched Pretty Little
Liars original three times through.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Love Pretty Little Liars.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I'm such a huge fan.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
So good.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I did not love the ending, but I know it's fine. Yeah,
you know, the rest makes up for it.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
How could they keep that going for so long?
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Well, I was not to say the amount of twists
they had. I know, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I don't think they thought it was going to go
on for as long as it did.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Think they just kept getting picked up.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
True.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Yeah, So I rewatched that. I've seen The L Word,
I don't know, three or four times all the way through.
I in the Pandemic, watched Dairy Girls, Girls five EVA,
and What We Do in the Shadows probably three times through,
just because I love those comedies. And right now I
am rewatching The Bold Type. The Bold Type, Oh okay,
(42:24):
you no, I haven't watched that one. It was on
free Form. It's about three friends working a fashion magazine
that's kind of like Cosmo. One of them is in
the fashion department, one of them is a writer, and
one of them runs a social media campaign that one
is queer and there's this really beautiful sapphic relationship and
(42:45):
it introduced I think it's TV's first lesbian Muslim character.
Oh yeah, so and I love it. I love shows
about women's friendship and especially if there's you know, something
queer in it. Point so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I also love I love projects that have like journalist
women obviously, Like I've always seen people when they talk
about you know, like you watch all of the rom coms,
and it was always like a journalist and I'm like,
I really I love when I see those. They're just
so fun. I don't know, like Sex and the.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
City, Like Sex and the City.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, Like I was like, it's just such a fun time.
Did it make me be a journalist? Yes, you know,
but they're so good.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah. There was one a few years back. It only
got one season on Prime.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
It was called Good Girls Revolt. I didn't see that
one was kind of there was a Nora Efron character
in it. It was good. Yeah, it's a period piece.
It takes place in the sixties, but yeah, no, I
love it.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Right, it's hard.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
I should watch the ball time.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I will see it's so hard because I'm telling you, yeah,
with my like rewatching, and then you're always, of course,
like told you have to watch things.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
For work, But so what are you rewatching?
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I don't know what am I rewatching right now. Unfortunately,
currently I'm not even in my rewatch era. I got
sucked into the Love Island drama.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Have you seen that? I can't do reality? You can't
do it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I never was a reality person because I never watched Survivor. Honestly,
I didn't really watch any kind of thing like that.
And then I just was feeling really left out on TikTok,
which is really just the problem with TikTok and everyone's
talking about I have to know.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's why I watched The Traders. Yeah, I did watch that.
I used to like Project Runway, Top Chef and I
liked the voice. Yeah, but then when it became more
about the backstory and creating a drama than the competition, I.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I Yeah, I used to watch like American Idol, so
you think you can dance with my family? Like those
were always great in the in the golden days. But yeah,
I haven't been a big reality TV.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
It's so formulaic and produced that's the thing with reality.
It's overly produced.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah. I did watch The Ultimatum Queer Love season one
and season two.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Don't Tell, Don't Tell David, don't tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
It's it's interesting, I mean for sure, Like yeah, like
it's fun to watch at times, but then I also
think about the people that are on it, and they're
like reality of what's going to happen to them when
they get off, which is scary.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Well, and then a friend of mine wrote a really
great piece. Her name is Marcy Bianco, and she wrote
a piece about how the queer ultimatum is really an
ultimatum for heteronormativity, and it's very smart piece and true.
It's very true, centering marriage and often stereotypes of gender
(45:47):
within relationships.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Right, and just the idea that life is marriage and
family and nothing else kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, yeah, which is the opposite of being really queer,
I mean, is different than gay.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I have to read that because honestly, she's so smart,
just to kind of round us out going forward in
(46:24):
queer media, what are you really hoping to see?
Speaker 2 (46:27):
What am I hoping to see? H I'm hoping to
see queer audiences support us and you know, not just
my company, but whatever that looks like. Go to our websites,
make sure you're you know, giving us some traffic right
(46:49):
or follow us on social. We have a reader program
for the Advocate and where people can help support our quardar,
which is something you know, The Guardian has been doing
that for quite some time. So we're trying to go
directly to queer audiences to help us so that we
(47:11):
can give them the kind of stories that they want
to see. So we're interacting with our audiences more. I really,
I really want queer people to support us. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah, I've been talking a lot about Pride this year
and just how I felt that it felt very different
and it felt kind of isolating where I feel like
people weren't we weren't like gathering as much as we were,
and it was kind of yeah, like I just feel
like it wasn't as supportive as we've been, which I
don't know what's causing that, but we all just have
(47:43):
to be here for each other.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, I mean, especially now, I think there's probably a
tendency to want to isolate because things are so hard.
That's probably when we should lean into each other more.
I didn't go to any Pride festivals. This year, I
was on my way to New York for La Pride,
(48:07):
and then I was back here in LA for New
York Pride. But we did have our company had it's
our Pride of Broadway party, So we had this big,
beautiful party with our Pride cover stars, the Divas with
Megan Hilty and Leah Salonga, Malia Joy Moon and well
(48:29):
Adina and Kristen couldn't make it to the party, but
they were on the cover and Cynthia Nixon, who was
our Advocate cover star for Pride, was there. So it
was a really big, beautiful party that felt like a
great celebration to me. And then I just kept meeting
up with friends in New York at Don't Tell Mama,
and you know, kind of around queer spaces like a
(48:51):
piano bar where people were singing show too. It's just like,
so I felt very prideful and loved by community in
that moment. So that felt really good.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah. So it's just like the little things you don't need,
like the big.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Right, I didn't the big thing. Yeah, I will say
I love a small town pride. I'm a little not
great at the big ones because if there's not a
bathroom available.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
True.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
True, I have a very tiny bladder, and I'm like,
I need a restroom, handy. I don't want to be
miserable all day trying to find a bathroom.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Sure. I went to Weiho Pride and it was hot,
I was tired. There was porta potties so sometimes cool.
Yeah what am I doing exactly? So?
Speaker 2 (49:40):
You know, I kind of but a small town pride.
Love it.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
I haven't been to too many brides and I'll have
to check out a small town pride.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I went to. It was Sonoma County, oh Okay, and
it was in downtown Santa Rosa. This was two years ago.
I loved that one.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
It was just a lot of family, Yes, very intimate.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah, it was really really sweet and not super corporate
and although you know that's becoming a problem for all
pride now, but it wasn't super corporate based. It was
really very community based, which I think was the draw
for me.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Is there anything else you want to
share before we close out?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
I think I would love to just urge people, as
you've said, to draw on community and to if you
are in a place of relative privilege like I am,
I consider myself that I am I have a job,
I you know, have been out for a long time.
(50:48):
I have people who support me, so I try to
help others. So if you are in a place of
relative privilege, please try to help other folks. And if
you need help, please try to reach out and lean
on each other. This is just seven months in, not
(51:09):
even no, not even six months into this administration, and
it's a hard, dark time. But also find joy when
you can have the laughter, because that's going to recharge
and help us keep fighting, because we're going to keep fighting.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah for sure, absolutely, Yeah, Okay to close us, not
to bring it all the way back to Wicked again,
but on Pride, I like to come out as something
on the show, and so this week I was trying
to think of what I wanted that to be, and
I was reflecting, and I just I wanted to come
(51:49):
out as someone who was very changed by Ariana Grande
singing the Wizard and I for NBC like that live
show she did, and I didn't really I didn't really
think about the impact that it had on me, like
with all of the Wicked stuff going on, Like I
knew she had was a longtime Wicked fan. But I
(52:09):
honestly I streamed like that version, specifically way too many times,
blasted the YouTube video in my car, sang along to
it like it really, it really did a number on me.
And again, I'm like, I didn't even think about deep
it went until I was thinking about it later, and
I was like, no, I sang that in the shower,
(52:29):
like that version like twenty times.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
I know. I was like it really and I was like,
not to say that Cynthia's version is not good, but like,
for some reason, that Ariana one really it it stuck
with me.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
It landed with you at the time.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
I know, I was really I was holding space for
it and I didn't I didn't even know it, but
like the lyrics were really were really hitting me that day.
Speaker 5 (52:54):
Yeah, or that month that I went what I don't
remember when she it was just a few years ago
for the anniversary and she Yeah, they did like a
Wicked performance and she sang that song for like a
live audience thing.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
She was wearing all green. I remember it vividly and yeah,
I'm like, I have to look up what date it was,
but I heard that performance and I was like, wow,
she really she really changed history.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I love it. Well, thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yes, I okay, Well it can be anything that if
you want to, I love that well.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I will do a sort of wicked related one as well.
I already came out as a lover of basically like
young adult or teen television with my pretty little liars
of Yes, I love to go down rabbit holes on
YouTube of voice teachers critiquing performances.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Oh my gosh, I've seen those. I've seen actually one
for that Ariana Grande performance.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah, I do a lot like I tend to go
into like, oh, do they have any Kelly Clarkson's because
I always love when people freak out about Kelly Clarkson's
voice is really good, the range, this range of styles.
So I have now probably watched I don't know, four
or five different voice teachers react to Cynthia and Ariana's
(54:24):
opening performance of the Oscars this year, where Ariana did
Over the Rainbow, Cynthia did Home from the Wiz, and
then they did define Gravity. I was lucky enough to
be in the room when they performed.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
And where it happened.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, yes, good musical deer. I love Hamilton, but yeah,
so I will come out as someone who is addicted
to watching voice teachers loser shit over Cynthia and Arianna's
opening number at the Oscars.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Yeah, I mean, and as they should. As they should.
But you took vocal classes too.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Right, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
I was studying voice why. I was an actor when
I was young, and I did theater in high school.
I traveled with a rock and sorry a theater company
on a rock and roll bus in my early twenties
for a time. And I love to sing. I was
always the best singer at girl Scout camp where we
(55:22):
were just sitting around a fire and I was singing
folk songs. But I love to sing. I think I
have a pretty good instrument, but I don't trust my
ear really well, so I'm super shy about singing in public,
although few old fashions and you can get me on
a karaoke.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Mic karaoke, We'll have to do that.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah. So I did take vocal lessons for a while,
and I may start up again. I put it on
pause for a bit, but it's good. I actually did
a vocal warm up on my way here so that
my voice would be warm while I spoke.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I remember my I had a college professor that taught
me to do vocal warm ups when I was doing
the radio over there. Yeah, still do them all the
time because they're really good. Especially I get like energy
in your voice, right, they teach you that. But then
sometimes I just feel like I'm channeling Sharpey Evans from
high school musical. I don't know if you know that
little cut where she's like like, I feel like that's
(56:20):
me in the car. But I mean, that's what you
have to do. But I'm like, I'm just having my
little Sharpei moment.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I did my lip trills on the.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Way over exactly. Yeah, like it does really help though.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, it's good. It's good. It works, and I wasn't
and even like you know, as I'm getting older, i am.
I was even able to work on my upper range,
so that's good. I'll probably go back to it. Right now,
I am taking ukulele lessons, so watch out.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
She always has a new skill every time I see you.
You're like this week, I'm doing ballet, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Oh, I was taking tap. Yeah, okay, I was taking tap,
except my my tap school clothes. Another one. Oh yeah,
So now I'm taking ukulele lessons, which watch out if
I come to a party, I need annoy everyone with
ukulele song.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
It would not be annoying. I would love that. I
just what song are we learning?
Speaker 2 (57:17):
Oh? Okay, probably songs that most people don't know. You
have to kind of be folk Americana to know. So
I'm working on a couple different ones. Well, I can
do Leaving on a jet Plane, which is an old
folk song.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (57:30):
John Denver wrote that one, and that's like a basic
three chord down down, up, up down. It's pretty easy,
so I can do that. I'm working on two others.
One is called Angel from Sorry, Angel from Montgomery. It
was written by John Prine and famously recorded by Bonnie
Rait and I love that song. It's beautiful. And then
(57:54):
I'm also working on one called I Wish It Would
Rain by one of my favorite singer songwriters who's not
very well known, and her name is Nancy Griffith.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So yeah, you'll need to learn a wicked song so
you can go to the premiere, Yes and play for Cynthia.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Right, Yes, that's not a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
I really think that it would be good if you
could like play her riff on the ukulele. That would
be good, that.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
Would maybe possible, but also sort of. So my ukulele
teacher also does. Her name is well, her YouTube site,
I'm gonna give her a shout out is Ukulele Wine Time, Okay,
And she became my teacher because I loved her style
so much that I reached out and asked if she
would become my teacher. So we do assume she's in Hudson,
(58:43):
New York. But she was teaching Brandy Carlyle's You and
Me on the Rock and also the High Women Crowded Table,
so those are a little more contemporary still Americana. But anyway,
so that's how I found my ukulele.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
Teacher that I'll have to look. I don't know if
I'll do ukulele, but I need to just find a
new a new skill.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I really really haven't. Yeah, it's taking a while, like
to do it right because she's teaching me how to
do my clockhand on my strumming hand, and you know,
I just want to get.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
In there and yeah sing, I know I'm impatient when
I'm learning things.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
But to do it correctly, it is a process, but
I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (59:24):
Yeah, so watch out.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
I'm ready. I'm telling you there's gonna be karaoke ukulelean
in our future. Yeah, why not? I'd love to tap
I was just I was just talking to the Zombies
cast the other week and they do tap in that
and they they said the phrase tap in the trap. Oh,
I don't no clue what that means. I was wondering
(59:48):
if it's.
Speaker 2 (59:48):
A Google it. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
I don't know, I don't it's it was funny though,
so but apparently it's not well known. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I mean, I'm not an expert. I'm not Sutton Foster yet.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Yes, has anyone asked you to do the the art
our Cynthia Riff when they ask you to hold space?
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Oh so I am on cameo, oh so you do
it over there? One person asked me to do it,
and I did. Yeah. I also have been because it's
a lot of gig guys. So I've been asked to like,
could you tell someone that you're holding space for their juicy?
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Sure, so I've done.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I'm you know, I'm like, you know, You're like, why not?
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
If it brings people joy? Part of me was like,
oh God, is this going to be like edited out
of context, and then I'm going to go viral for
saying something really vile.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah. I mean at that point you have to worry
about like AI getting to you and being able to
steal your voice and make you all kinds of stuff.
So I think you're.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna live with it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
I meant to ask you earlier, like if you had
crazy fan encounters, but I feel like that is a
pretty interesting I've had that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I when we had our Pride of Broadway, I had
this this woman who was on in a show actually
the Turn Company of Oklahoma. Here I walked in and
she freaked out, which was really cute, I mean, because
she's a performer. And then I was at the Whole
(01:01:33):
Foods in Brentwood, which I walk up to from my house.
I live in West LA, just like North and it
was in the winter. It was raining. I had on
yoga pants like hiking boots because they're kind of waterproof,
a rain coat, my hair was flat, no makeup, and
(01:01:54):
walking through the Whole Foods in this woman who was
with her male partner, lost her shit when she saw me,
like screamed, hugged me, asked for a photo, held my finger,
hugged me again, and her partner was like, oh, yeah,
she's got the T shirt, you know. So that was
(01:02:17):
that was a fun one in the wild and then
oh I did get This was really fun for me
because it was so long after when I was in
New York. I was walking through Hell's Kitchen and someone
stopped me and said, on the street.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
I got stopped on the street.
Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
That made me so happy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on the
show with us. Thank you for all you do for
the industry. I can't wait to see Wicked Part two.
What's going to stir up with that? Like it's almost
Wicked season again, which is almost here. So exciting, It's
so close, I.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Know, yeah, so weird. This year is flown by I know,
it really has. Yeah. Well, Caitlin, thank you for having me.
And also you're really good at this, so you are
you are in queer media.
Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
I try to be in queer media. But thank you
so much from the queen of queer media. You know,
make sure you follow Tracy, follow the Advocate out Pride
and then subscribe to Pride wherever you get your podcasts,
wherever you listen to podcasts, follow us on social at Pride,
(01:03:27):
anything else you want to shout.
Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Out, No, I just want to say thank you and
tell everybody to celebrate themselves. Yes, all the time.
Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Yeah, not just during Pride month all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah,
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!