Michelle Buteau and Peppermint join us this week to talk about Survival of the Thickest Season 2 — a show filled with queer joy, chosen family, body positivity, and… a surprise wedding!
Michelle is a comedian, writer, and star of the series. She shares how her essays became a Netflix series and why every detail, from the fashion to the background actors, is intentional. Peppermint is a performer, activist, and trailblazer in trans visibility. And she opens up about bringing authenticity to her character and the power of trans representation onscreen.
Plus: the love language of letting someone else carry your dresser.
Survival of the Thickest season 2 is now streaming on Netflix!
Michelle is a comedian, writer, and star of the series. She shares how her essays became a Netflix series and why every detail, from the fashion to the background actors, is intentional. Peppermint is a performer, activist, and trailblazer in trans visibility. And she opens up about bringing authenticity to her character and the power of trans representation onscreen.
Plus: the love language of letting someone else carry your dresser.
Survival of the Thickest season 2 is now streaming on Netflix!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Straw hot media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I get the most amount of joy from being able
to participate in serving this to other people and allow
and introducing.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
It to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And then I'm going to get a whole lot of
joy sitting with my ice cream cake and candy watching
it binge no doubt, binge watching it when I'm home
alone with my no boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I really decided to redo my entire room. I hated
everything in it. I feel like we're all kind of
going through that phase all the time where we just
want to start all fresh. So I wanted a new dresser,
and I also am notorious for not thinking things through thoroughly.
So it's this humongous dresser that I finally found on
Facebook market Place, and I was like, this is fine.
(00:46):
It'll fit in my tiny square foot apartment that's on
the fifth floor that only has one elevator. We're gonna
it'll be great. I'll make it work. I pose this
to my roommate because I also drive a smart car
and there's absolutely no way that's going to get into
my car. I don't want to rent anything, so I'm like,
I'll just figure it out, like it'll be fine. I
(01:08):
am an independent woman, and I'll just do it. And
she has a much better head on her shoulders and
is like, these are all the things that could go wrong,
this is everything that we should be thinking about. And I'm like, no,
none of that matters. I will do it. And I
also don't like inconveniencing people, so I'm like, you don't
even need to help. I'll just do it. I'll just
drag it myself. I'll just carry it from the five
(01:30):
miles away to my apartment alone, because that, in my
head like makes more sense, Like I'm like, this is
that is the best solution, is that I'll just carry
it on my shoulders. Obviously, that did not happen, and
my roommate kindly lent me her car. We went picked
it up. It actually fits. Surprisingly we somehow both of
(01:51):
us were able to carry it up to my apartment,
got it in my room. She was like, you're never
getting rid of that. It's there to stay now forever.
Your stuff with it. Don't ask me for any more favorites.
Not really, she wouldn't do that. But all of this
is to say that I am one of those people
who I'm like so independent where I'm like I don't
need anyone, like, don't even look at me, don't open
(02:12):
the door, like I don't need it, And that is
a theme in this week's interviews where I am bringing
out Michelle Buteaux and Peppermint, the Amazing Drag Queen to
talk about Survival of the Thickest. And in this show,
Michelle's character, who she bases this on her own personal essays,
is really a very independent woman in New York, and
(02:34):
she's like, I don't need nobody. I can do this
on my own. But in the last I don't want
to spoil it too much of season two, but in
this last episode there's this amazing vulnerable moment where a
man does something for her and she's like, you know what,
I actually could let a man do something for me sometimes,
you know, because I've been caring a lot and like
(02:55):
maybe it's their time to give back. And that really
resonated with me. I was like, you are so right,
Like maybe I should have made a man carry my
dresser into my room. But getting into it, we're going
to be talking about everything. Survival of the Thickest. This
is an amazing show on Netflix and it really just
gets in. It has queer representation, It talks about body positivity,
(03:19):
and I have two amazing interviews again with Michelle and
with Peppermint. So without spoiling too much, let's get into
the interviews. I'm so excited to chat with you. I
(03:41):
really love this series. I have so many things just
to get into. But season two is so brilliant. I'm
so good to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Oh my god, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I know, right, it's so soon, he is, and then
it'll be here, I know, But I mean, I wanted
to talk to a little about going back to where
it all began. I know, it's Survival of the Thickest.
It's a book of essays that you created, and I
just announced this wonderful Netflix series. So when was the
moment that you realized this could be a show.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
When I read the book, I had no idea that
anyone was going to read it. And so the fact
that people from Netflix read it and they were like,
this should be a show, I'm like, yes, it should.
How And then meeting my co creator showrunner, it just
seems so easy. In fact, the one problem we had
is that there were so many stories, and there was themes,
(04:36):
and there's my mission statement and I want to be
inclusive and authentic, and the specificity and everything including the
music is got be New York. And so while the
idea was so big, I was like, I don't know.
I want to do it, but where do we start.
It's like once we started building it, I was like, boom,
this is what it is. It's so easy because it's
(04:57):
like my actual life.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And then you just went boom and it went the show.
It was like.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
When somebody said, well, what's their diner, what's their coffee
shop that they meet at, And I'm like, I grew
up going to drag bars all over New York City
and I haven't seen that, and I don't know why.
It's always a place they visit by accident or oopsie, poopsie,
it's someone's birthday, and I'm like, no, I actually live there,
Like I would actually go in the kitchen in the
(05:27):
back and make my own case idias. And so it
was really fun and then also important to show casey spaces.
And then when Peppermint signed on to do the show.
You know, we hadn't met before, but like her and
I just like it was almost like we were twinning because
we had actually performed all the same queer spaces in
(05:50):
New York City. But like I just missed each other
because you know, she was doing drag and I was
doing stand up, and it's just like, Oh, this is
what it is. It's the community.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I mean, I love that because I was going to
talk a little bit about, you know, like what the
line of Mavis is to your stories, because obviously you
know you're telling you're taking these essays, but you're also
creating a new character that isn't you know, necessarily you.
And then also there's so much queer representation in this show,
especially in season two. I mean, you're bringing these relationships,
(06:19):
there's a wedding. Yeah, so can you talk a little
bit more about what kind of stories you wanted to
bring into it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Man, there was so many. There were so many stories
like from my real life that I was like, how
do we fit into a TV show which is a
writer's room of amazing people, creative people. I can like
sit in a chair for like eight hours, very weird
to me. I'm like, no one gets up. It's like
amazing and so important. But then also the things that
I want for the world I want. I want trans
(06:52):
people and non binary people to have the same rights
as everyone. I want women to decide for their bodies. Like,
there's so many things that I want for the world.
I'm like, how do we put it in a TV show?
You know, it's hard to get to all of them
because the list is long, but you know, even you know,
Khalil's written after one of my best friends in Seth Grade,
(07:13):
and I want him to be able to speak freely
about his mental health without people judging him or telling
him to shut up or whatever it is. And so yeah,
it's the stuff that I've lived, but also the stuff
I want to see that come together and I think
make I don't know, just a beautiful love letter to
(07:35):
my friendships and people who honor their friendships.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Absolutely. I mean, you're touching on so many things. Because
I also loved Khalil's, you know, talk about therapy and
going into those conversations and just kind of normalizing talking
about men's health. And I did want to just go
back a little to working with Peppermint because you know,
she's such a beautiful character on this show and just
being herself. So what was it like kind of collabing
(08:02):
and forming that friendship and then and then working on
these episodes that are special, especially episode six.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Oh my god, it's everything. I mean, can Peppermin and
I definitely and dance in the bathroom mirror to the
same Genet Jackson songs. And so it's really like when
I get back when I tell you about twinning, it's
like really fun and important when I'm just like, hey,
I see your relationship for you, for your character. You know,
(08:29):
we see you out of CEC Blooms a lot, so
you know, I know that there's like a showgirl look
and then it's like the real life look, and like,
you know what does that because I hang out with
Peppermin all the time and her look is not what
she serves on stage. So I'm like, let's lean into
that too, show what it looks like us moving in
(08:52):
the world, which I think is important. And yeah, I
mean we were like we were like giddy little schoolgirls
when we cast her husband and realized that she was
going to go like dress shopping. It's just, you know,
the wish from fulfillment was so real, and then when
(09:16):
we get real life news it becomes bittersweet. But these
are the things we hold on to. Here's the space
that we can feel safe and create.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, no, I mean this coming out this year is
definitely you know, something that we need and we need
people to see. Yeah, like it's you can't stress how
much we need, you know, the representation on the screens
right now in all regards. Yeah, and I know that
the fashion choices in this show. Obviously fashion is so important,
(09:48):
but it also makes such old statements. I mean there's
transsolidarity even seen through that. So can you kind of
talk about working with the costume department and what encouraged
you to make those statements?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah, you know, I used to edit news a long
long time ago, and I remember one of my bosses.
He said, when you do be roll, make sure that
you show black and brown families whenever you can, just
walking and being normal, because at that time, they were
just like doing purp walks. They were just being arrested,
(10:21):
you know, they're like wanted for something. And he's like,
you know, even the b roll just like subconsciously like
people will you know, believe and think it's okay, for
better or for worse. And I'm like, oh, what I heard.
What I heard from that conversation was every little thing matters,
every little detail is telling and if I'm really showcasing
(10:44):
my world and the world that I believe we should
live in. Then if you look back at the series,
you will see the subway posters are about women's health,
they're about black women running for you know, I don't know,
some sort of like I don't know, so they're like
a politician or something. Lol.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
No AOC.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And even down to the clothes that we wear that
doesn't have a message on it, they are nine times
out of ten from a black or career designer. And
so even down to the background casting background, it's like,
all those things matter because these are people actually in
(11:26):
the world, So why wouldn't you showcase them? It's insane
to me. So yeah, I think all of that, I
don't know, it was important, And thank you for picking
up on it.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, No, I mean, and I love the intention behind
the whole show. And I also love you just bringing up,
you know, saying b roll and talking about that journalism
history that I know you have. Yeah, and I wanted
to just kind of ask, I mean, you wanted to
be an entertainment reporter, So what is your view on
entertainment news right now? Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Man, I don't know a lot of it doesn't feel
like news. It just feels like gossip. But you know,
there is that like podcasting type of energy where you
can have a conversation about it and debunk it and
you have opinions and it's hilarious and sometimes hurtful and
it's like wild. But I miss just like I don't know,
(12:20):
I just miss sort of honest and frivolous journalism in
the entertainment space. And maybe it was never like that. Maybe,
you know, I was too young to realize that there
are tabloids and there are proper rozzi and people were
being blackmailed and all those things really did exist. So
(12:40):
maybe I have like wish fulfillment for something that never
even happened. But I know how I'm going to move
in the world, and I know that I have to
sleep at night, and so I'm not going to partake
in that shit period. Like we have to be kind
to each other, and you could be hilarious and still
be kind. I don't know why people think you can't.
You just have to try harder, bitch.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I love what you said there, and I really feel
like when I was going to school, there was this
like stigma that entertainment was just talking about, you know,
what the celebs are wearing, and it was like, you
need to do politics because that's the only way it
could be meaningful. Yeah, but I feel like today there's
so much media that really tries to entertain but also
tell stories. And I feel like that's also a big
(13:24):
part of comedy where you don't really realize that it's
there to entertain, but it's also there to tell stories
and to really tell what's happening in the.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
World and also feed the culture. You know, it's not
just a song, you know what I mean, Like, it's
not just a song. Like a lot of people didn't
know who Kenchrick Lamar was and now they do, and
his hidden messages in his halftime show. You know, we
were talking about stories that we're not even allowed to
(13:52):
tell anymore, maybe we never even were, you know. So
we're gonna take Black the Night and do what we do,
put it on a platform while we still can, and
can you talk to us.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
A little bit about your comedy career and kind of
how on that same note, like it might have evolved
over time, or what you're putting into your stand ups
now that might be different from when you started.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I mean to be honest. I was always that bitch,
you know, I just have a bigger platform. Now I
have a bigger stage. But I was on a small
stage somewhere in Atlanta doing a fifteen minute special for
Netflix eight years ago, and my bit was right out
of the MeToo movement, and the bit was called nobody
(14:36):
want to see you a dick? Like, why is everybody
taking the dick out? You know, somebody want to see
your dick? If they say, can I see your dick?
I'd like to see your dick please, That's how you
know if no one's saying that, don't take your dick out?
And then I named names, Oops, my ring flies off. Yeah,
you know it's like Harvey Weinstein, nobody wants to see
your Postrami dick. That's disgusting. So like, thank you so much.
(15:00):
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
So much, Peter.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
But yeah, I mean I've always been that bit. Just
just now I know that now I'm happy that people
know me.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I love that. I do want to talk a little
bit about just in season two, the last episode, just
a smidge, because I really loved this like small moment
right at the end when she is trying to kind
of don't get nervous. She's you know, she's saying, I'm
a New Yorker, I don't need anybody else, and then
(15:33):
she kind of has that moment where she's like, maybe
I could let someone else take care of me and
let someone else in and not have to do everything
on my own. Yeah. Oh, and I just that was
such a strong takeaway and I wanted to hear you
your thoughts on it.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
My mom raised me to be a very independent person,
but dating was so hard for me because I was like,
I can hold my own doors, I can pay for
my own drink. And then like guys be like the
what do you need me here for? And I'm like, good,
good question. Let me think about it. I'll get right
back to you. And so, you know Grace Edwards, who's
like an amazing writer and producer on the show, when
(16:08):
we were talking about this moment, she said this one
of her friends was dating this guy and nobody was
really sure this guy is the one. And then that
moment happened with a taxi where he stood up for
her and everybody was like, oh, he good, she's good,
he got this, and I was like, that is a
beautiful moment, and that spoke to me so hard for
(16:30):
any independent bitch who just keeps fighting and fighting and fighting,
clowing her way to whatever top that is, and someone
saying I got your back, also sit down and let
me do this for you. So I'm glad you picked
up on that because I thought it was a very
special moment.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So, I mean, as an independent person who's like I
don't need anyone, I was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
This is Yes, that's a love language. It's just like, oh,
you do, got it? And I didn't have to ask you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Oh good. I mean, yeah, I'm like, if someone wants
to fight my fights just a little, I'll let them.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Look, it's a love language.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
You're right, it is, and that it makes so much
sense now seeing it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, your face is giving, it's glowing, it's giving.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's giving everything I need right now.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Thank you. I love you with this purple backdrop like
it's really it's poppin'. Ah look at us. Hey, congratulations
on season two. It's truly such an amazing series.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And I was talking with Michelle just about your friendship
and just how that came to be, and I really
just want to hear from you about you know, first
impressions of working with her and how that led us
to where we are today.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, I gotta tell you it is inappropriate how much
I feel like we are two peas in a pot,
and that I feel like I know this woman. I've
only met her through Survival of the Thickest. Initially, we
may have run into each other once or twice in
the New York City club scenes, because a lot of
the like stand up comic and drag entertainers and burlesque entertainers,
you know, New York City. Everybody mixes together New York City.
(18:26):
But my first official time meeting her was when I
was in the makeup chair and she came through into
the makeup chair room as well, filming season one, and we,
when I tell you, we screamed so loud I think
you can imagine. And ever since then, we've just been
(18:48):
screaming for the whole time. I love her so much.
I love her heart. I love how much she can
see people. She sees people, and I what I mean
by that is she sees the heart and their humanity first,
and that's what she seems to deal with, and that
seems to be what is important to her, and that
(19:09):
is certainly why we connect in the way that we do.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
And it was her.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I mean, if somebody told me when I first got
cast for season one and then obviously season two.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
When I if.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Somebody had told me, Oh, you're just gonna be in
the show and you're just gonna be fabulous every now
and again, I would take it.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I would take it.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But the fact that she was like, I'm going to
write some moments for you that are things that we've
not seen before.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Because our community needs it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Michelle, you know she is When I say, I mean,
she goes beyond what you would define as an ally.
She is a part of the queer community because of
how she loves and understands us and that is beautiful
and so I but I without those things, She's obviously hilarious,
(20:00):
she's obviously wild, and I love all those things about
her too.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
She's just a real goal She's a real gal.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
She is, yes, and she Yeah. We really got in
depth on just you know, the intention that she really
puts into the series, even behind the scenes in the background.
It's crazy, you know how much she puts in.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
There was without going into too much detail, there was
the scene that we were shooting in season one where
you know, the line between an actor and somebody who
brings an authenticity to that role can sometimes be blurry
when you're hiring as background talent drag entertainers and people
like that to be the authentic sort of uh support
talent that's in the in the show.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And she.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
There was a moment where anyone who doesn't have experience
with drag queens might have said, Okay, that's it, you're done.
It's done. It's over, like you know, the day's over, goodbye.
She really took time and said, stop it.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
These girls are in drag and we can't just dismiss them.
We have to make sure that they're okay getting home
in drag alone through New York City at two or
three in the morning. And she's right, but that's not
something that most people would think about unless you know
and care about folks in the community and understand what
(21:24):
it's like. And that was early on in the season.
And I, although I loved her very much and was like, yes,
I love you, I live for you, I knew right
there that, like she really this was the cameras were
not rolling, this was like, this was her just saying no, no,
this is what's right, and that felt great. And so
she understands the community in a way that most people
(21:46):
probably wouldn't take the time to learn.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, and then you know, going into this season, like
she writes you, some some wonderful scenes, and especially in
episode six, we get to see a beautiful love story.
So I love to just hear from you. I mean
about creating those moments and then living through them and
bringing it to screen.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
You know, I just had no imagine.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It was not anywhere in my vision that when I
got hired to do this show after auditioning, that that
would be in the cards at all, Like I just
had I was not thinking that, And I asked myself
all the time, why is that? Because Michelle was able
to say, girl, this is yes, this, You're going to
do this.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
We're going to do this. This is important and not
only it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Could have just been like a little blip, like I
could have just ran and been like I got I
had a little moment, you know, and that was it.
She worked it into She weaved the love story of
my character with Harrison, my partner, through this episode and
then furthermore through the series in such a beautiful way.
(22:54):
It's like quilted like love Lovely Quilt. You know, that
time together and impacts other people's stories, other characters lives,
And we have some pivotal moments in seasons, in season six,
in episode six that in this version of the story
would not have been able to happen if if it
(23:17):
weren't for them, that moment with Peppermint. And I'm really
grateful for that because it shows the viewers that trans
people are needed and valuable in their lives, and can
be valuable in their lives, and certainly are valuable to
the lives of the other characters in this in the series.
And she I'm just really grateful that she saw it
important to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Absolutely, And you even got, you know, a little moment
to give a speech. And so I wanted to ask
in the show, like did you have an opportunity to
write that or was it a co writing and like
how did you know what you know you wanted to
share in that moment.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, it was written initially, you know, for me in
the script, and then pretty much everybody in the writing
team said, we want you to do we want this
to be authentic, so please let's talk, let's collaborate. And
I had a chance to collaborate on that, as I
have with so many the other moments that are meant
to really reflect the authenticity of my character, everything from
(24:15):
lines and script to the wardrobe, you know, being very
collaborative and understanding the vision together, and that is it's
just really special because I've been on many sets where
the burden for bringing authenticity to the project is solely
on the shoulder of me as the performer, or the
(24:36):
other extreme, where like, this is what we think you are,
but we're not going to ask you this is what
we're you know. And so this was a beautiful sort
of amalgamation of all the different things that we needed
to do. I was able to learn from them and
what we wanted and what they wanted, and we were
able to bring some authenticity to it, and especially that
speech moment, and I could have I could have written
(24:58):
it a hundred I feel like I've never been in
that exact scenario before, but I feel like if I
were in that scenario, that's exactly what I would have said.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It was very powerful, very moving. I loved every second.
I can't wait for everyone else to see it. And
it's just, you know, it is bringing such beautiful trans
representation to our screens. And I know that you know
now more than ever that is so important, and also
that you have been advocating for this to be bigger
in reality TV. So I kind of wanted to ask
(25:30):
you about that initiative and how that got started.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, I serve on the board of GLAD, which is
they've expressed and has expressed and importance in advocating for
trans people, specifically in the wake of everything that we're experiencing.
And one of the things that GLAD has done historically
is been able to help move the needle and change
(25:55):
the narrative in traditional media, scripted film, and television things
like that, those areas, but reality TV, considering how like
major it is, I mean, everybody's watching reality TV, still
has some ground to make up. And so I partnered
with Frankie Grande to UH and ask some other people
to come on board and one of the very first
(26:15):
people to come on board and sign our open letter
to the reality TV industry producers, writers, things like that,
casting directors, networks.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
UH.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
One of the we pin this open letter asking them
to just do better and be more inclusive not only
with people that are on camera, but build a set
of people who are behind the scenes, you know, whether
they're in the hair and makeup department, whether they're producers,
or whether they are driving the van to the thing,
whatever it is. Be more inclusive, like consider hiring people,
(26:47):
especially if they're part of a marginalized group that is
being shunned and left out in society. Then they don't
have access to the things like money and jobs and
things like that. And so it's twofold and if you
have build a set like that, then and you're going
to have a better product. And that is one of
the things that Michelle has done with season two, with
the entire series of Survival of the Thickest in partnership
(27:08):
with Netflix, and so it's no surprise that she was
one of the first people to sign that letter in
support to the reality TV industry.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And I mean, just going off of that, like, obviously
this is something that we definitely want to see more of.
Is there a certain project that you have in mind
that you would really like to to bring and for
people to see.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, I would love to have another turn on Traders.
I'm not gonna lie. It's one of my favorite reality
TV shows and I would I think I think I think,
I think, I think, okay, but then also you know, yeah,
I'm I'm big into horror and murder mystery. So if
I had the chance to produce something that was reality
TV based, then I would probably want to go along
those same lines, you know, something that's kind of wild
(27:50):
and scary, because I love.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But I think the America could benefit from seeing a
moment I think America could benefit from like the Bachelorette,
the trans Bachelorette, or the trans Masculine, the trans mail Bachelor.
Let's show our experiences. Let's show queer love and queer
(28:14):
existence in a way that's not just tragedy. You know,
that's not just struggle all the time. Yes, we struggle,
we're struggling now, but we also struggle doesn't exist without triumph,
it doesn't exist. They're two sides of the same coin,
and so let's show that other side of the coin.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So we're manifesting Traders another season and then hosting the
Gay Bachelor.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Hello, That's what I'm talking about, Darling. It's going to
be everything. I would watch it.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I yeah, I'm already on board. And I did want
to say that the show also tackles obviously just being
comfortable with yourself, with your body image, with your sexuality,
everything like that. And I feel like that's another topic
that is harder now than it should be. It feels
(29:04):
like it's not going in a forward direction. So do
you have anything any thoughts on that and just how
important this show is with that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's I mean, it's it's key, and I think you
know you it's I think it is easy maybe on
paper to look at oh LGBT issues or like issues
that are important to black women, or issues that are
disabled people, or body image issues.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's able.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's it's easy on paper to kind of separate those things,
but they all are intertwined. You know, I, as a
trans woman, have had the most stress and streff I've
gone through has been about my body and how it's seen,
how I move through space and time, not time. I'm
not a time traveler, although I look way younger than
(29:48):
most people think I am. And the point is, and
so that is something that everyone deals with, and these
are human issues. We deal with them, these issues, whether
it's our body, whether it's how we look and appear,
our our skin, our you know, our sexuality, and our gender,
whatever it is, we deal with those issues because we
are human and those are human issues, and so zooming
(30:12):
out that is something that I think is universal and
that we do so well on this show. Is that,
unlike maybe kurrent administration and current times, instead of crossing
out these groups because we don't want them to be
there because we don't like d Ei, we're saying, this
is what exists, this is what is in the garden
(30:33):
of life, right, And so I guess I'm getting hungry,
So let's just show it because they exist, we exist,
you know, and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
We're just trying to have the world look how that
world actually looks, because that's you know at all.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I loved everything we've talked about so far, and I
just wanted to end on kind of a happy note.
With everything going on, What are you doing to stay joyful?
To stay happy?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I am definitely going to go to the movies and
have ice cream and candy with my girlfriends sometime this week.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's a joyous thing for me.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And if I'm not able to do that this week,
because it's only because I'm having one of the most
joyous experiences of my life being able to celebrate and
promote a show like Survival of the Tickets. Being able
to promote season two a Survival of the Thickets is
one of the most joyous things I've ever done. It's
one of them. Professionally, it's one of the things that
(31:36):
I'm most proud of, even for my small contribution to it.
And I'm just grateful to be able to have these
conversations with people because they are so timely, and I
think that that is really, really key. And so I
get the most amount of joy from being able to
watch this, to participate in serving this to other people
(31:57):
and allow and introducing it.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
To other people.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And then I'm gonna get a whole lot of joy
sitting with my ice cream cake and candy watching it binge,
no doubt, binge watching it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
When I'm home alone with my no boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I mean me too, I get it. I'm here with
my cake too. But you know, it's still it's still good.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It's great. I ain't not unhappy about it. My partner
is the refrigerator. Okay, we're getting into a weird zone.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, well, thank you so much. Congratulations on the show.
It was lovely talking to you.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Survival of the Thickest. Season two is now streaming on Netflix.
Make sure to subscribe to Pride anywhere you listen or
watch podcasts, and follow us on socials at Pride. I'll
see you next time.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Station Street Estitional sation of gestisation
Straw hot media.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I get the most amount of joy from being able
to participate in serving this to other people and allow
and introducing.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
It to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And then I'm going to get a whole lot of
joy sitting with my ice cream cake and candy watching
it binge no doubt, binge watching it when I'm home
alone with my no boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I really decided to redo my entire room. I hated
everything in it. I feel like we're all kind of
going through that phase all the time where we just
want to start all fresh. So I wanted a new dresser,
and I also am notorious for not thinking things through thoroughly.
So it's this humongous dresser that I finally found on
Facebook market Place, and I was like, this is fine.
(00:46):
It'll fit in my tiny square foot apartment that's on
the fifth floor that only has one elevator. We're gonna
it'll be great. I'll make it work. I pose this
to my roommate because I also drive a smart car
and there's absolutely no way that's going to get into
my car. I don't want to rent anything, so I'm like,
I'll just figure it out, like it'll be fine. I
(01:08):
am an independent woman, and I'll just do it. And
she has a much better head on her shoulders and
is like, these are all the things that could go wrong,
this is everything that we should be thinking about. And I'm like, no,
none of that matters. I will do it. And I
also don't like inconveniencing people, so I'm like, you don't
even need to help. I'll just do it. I'll just
drag it myself. I'll just carry it from the five
(01:30):
miles away to my apartment alone, because that, in my
head like makes more sense, Like I'm like, this is
that is the best solution, is that I'll just carry
it on my shoulders. Obviously, that did not happen, and
my roommate kindly lent me her car. We went picked
it up. It actually fits. Surprisingly we somehow both of
(01:51):
us were able to carry it up to my apartment,
got it in my room. She was like, you're never
getting rid of that. It's there to stay now forever.
Your stuff with it. Don't ask me for any more favorites.
Not really, she wouldn't do that. But all of this
is to say that I am one of those people
who I'm like so independent where I'm like I don't
need anyone, like, don't even look at me, don't open
(02:12):
the door, like I don't need it, And that is
a theme in this week's interviews where I am bringing
out Michelle Buteaux and Peppermint, the Amazing Drag Queen to
talk about Survival of the Thickest. And in this show,
Michelle's character, who she bases this on her own personal essays,
is really a very independent woman in New York, and
(02:34):
she's like, I don't need nobody. I can do this
on my own. But in the last I don't want
to spoil it too much of season two, but in
this last episode there's this amazing vulnerable moment where a
man does something for her and she's like, you know what,
I actually could let a man do something for me sometimes,
you know, because I've been caring a lot and like
(02:55):
maybe it's their time to give back. And that really
resonated with me. I was like, you are so right,
Like maybe I should have made a man carry my
dresser into my room. But getting into it, we're going
to be talking about everything. Survival of the Thickest. This
is an amazing show on Netflix and it really just
gets in. It has queer representation, It talks about body positivity,
(03:19):
and I have two amazing interviews again with Michelle and
with Peppermint. So without spoiling too much, let's get into
the interviews. I'm so excited to chat with you. I
(03:41):
really love this series. I have so many things just
to get into. But season two is so brilliant. I'm
so good to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Oh my god, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I know, right, it's so soon, he is, and then
it'll be here, I know, But I mean, I wanted
to talk to a little about going back to where
it all began. I know, it's Survival of the Thickest.
It's a book of essays that you created, and I
just announced this wonderful Netflix series. So when was the
moment that you realized this could be a show.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
When I read the book, I had no idea that
anyone was going to read it. And so the fact
that people from Netflix read it and they were like,
this should be a show, I'm like, yes, it should.
How And then meeting my co creator showrunner, it just
seems so easy. In fact, the one problem we had
is that there were so many stories, and there was themes,
(04:36):
and there's my mission statement and I want to be
inclusive and authentic, and the specificity and everything including the
music is got be New York. And so while the
idea was so big, I was like, I don't know.
I want to do it, but where do we start.
It's like once we started building it, I was like, boom,
this is what it is. It's so easy because it's
(04:57):
like my actual life.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And then you just went boom and it went the show.
It was like.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
When somebody said, well, what's their diner, what's their coffee
shop that they meet at, And I'm like, I grew
up going to drag bars all over New York City
and I haven't seen that, and I don't know why.
It's always a place they visit by accident or oopsie, poopsie,
it's someone's birthday, and I'm like, no, I actually live there,
Like I would actually go in the kitchen in the
(05:27):
back and make my own case idias. And so it
was really fun and then also important to show casey spaces.
And then when Peppermint signed on to do the show.
You know, we hadn't met before, but like her and
I just like it was almost like we were twinning because
we had actually performed all the same queer spaces in
(05:50):
New York City. But like I just missed each other
because you know, she was doing drag and I was
doing stand up, and it's just like, Oh, this is
what it is. It's the community.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I mean, I love that because I was going to
talk a little bit about, you know, like what the
line of Mavis is to your stories, because obviously you
know you're telling you're taking these essays, but you're also
creating a new character that isn't you know, necessarily you.
And then also there's so much queer representation in this show,
especially in season two. I mean, you're bringing these relationships,
(06:19):
there's a wedding. Yeah, so can you talk a little
bit more about what kind of stories you wanted to
bring into it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Man, there was so many. There were so many stories
like from my real life that I was like, how
do we fit into a TV show which is a
writer's room of amazing people, creative people. I can like
sit in a chair for like eight hours, very weird
to me. I'm like, no one gets up. It's like
amazing and so important. But then also the things that
I want for the world I want. I want trans
(06:52):
people and non binary people to have the same rights
as everyone. I want women to decide for their bodies. Like,
there's so many things that I want for the world.
I'm like, how do we put it in a TV show?
You know, it's hard to get to all of them
because the list is long, but you know, even you know,
Khalil's written after one of my best friends in Seth Grade,
(07:13):
and I want him to be able to speak freely
about his mental health without people judging him or telling
him to shut up or whatever it is. And so yeah,
it's the stuff that I've lived, but also the stuff
I want to see that come together and I think
make I don't know, just a beautiful love letter to
(07:35):
my friendships and people who honor their friendships.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Absolutely. I mean, you're touching on so many things. Because
I also loved Khalil's, you know, talk about therapy and
going into those conversations and just kind of normalizing talking
about men's health. And I did want to just go
back a little to working with Peppermint because you know,
she's such a beautiful character on this show and just
being herself. So what was it like kind of collabing
(08:02):
and forming that friendship and then and then working on
these episodes that are special, especially episode six.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Oh my god, it's everything. I mean, can Peppermin and
I definitely and dance in the bathroom mirror to the
same Genet Jackson songs. And so it's really like when
I get back when I tell you about twinning, it's
like really fun and important when I'm just like, hey,
I see your relationship for you, for your character. You know,
(08:29):
we see you out of CEC Blooms a lot, so
you know, I know that there's like a showgirl look
and then it's like the real life look, and like,
you know what does that because I hang out with
Peppermin all the time and her look is not what
she serves on stage. So I'm like, let's lean into
that too, show what it looks like us moving in
(08:52):
the world, which I think is important. And yeah, I
mean we were like we were like giddy little schoolgirls
when we cast her husband and realized that she was
going to go like dress shopping. It's just, you know,
the wish from fulfillment was so real, and then when
(09:16):
we get real life news it becomes bittersweet. But these
are the things we hold on to. Here's the space
that we can feel safe and create.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, no, I mean this coming out this year is
definitely you know, something that we need and we need
people to see. Yeah, like it's you can't stress how
much we need, you know, the representation on the screens
right now in all regards. Yeah, and I know that
the fashion choices in this show. Obviously fashion is so important,
(09:48):
but it also makes such old statements. I mean there's
transsolidarity even seen through that. So can you kind of
talk about working with the costume department and what encouraged
you to make those statements?
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah, you know, I used to edit news a long
long time ago, and I remember one of my bosses.
He said, when you do be roll, make sure that
you show black and brown families whenever you can, just
walking and being normal, because at that time, they were
just like doing purp walks. They were just being arrested,
(10:21):
you know, they're like wanted for something. And he's like,
you know, even the b roll just like subconsciously like
people will you know, believe and think it's okay, for
better or for worse. And I'm like, oh, what I heard.
What I heard from that conversation was every little thing matters,
every little detail is telling and if I'm really showcasing
(10:44):
my world and the world that I believe we should
live in. Then if you look back at the series,
you will see the subway posters are about women's health,
they're about black women running for you know, I don't know,
some sort of like I don't know, so they're like
a politician or something. Lol.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
No AOC.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
And even down to the clothes that we wear that
doesn't have a message on it, they are nine times
out of ten from a black or career designer. And
so even down to the background casting background, it's like,
all those things matter because these are people actually in
(11:26):
the world, So why wouldn't you showcase them? It's insane
to me. So yeah, I think all of that, I
don't know, it was important, And thank you for picking
up on it.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, No, I mean, and I love the intention behind
the whole show. And I also love you just bringing up,
you know, saying b roll and talking about that journalism
history that I know you have. Yeah, and I wanted
to just kind of ask, I mean, you wanted to
be an entertainment reporter, So what is your view on
entertainment news right now? Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Man, I don't know a lot of it doesn't feel
like news. It just feels like gossip. But you know,
there is that like podcasting type of energy where you
can have a conversation about it and debunk it and
you have opinions and it's hilarious and sometimes hurtful and
it's like wild. But I miss just like I don't know,
(12:20):
I just miss sort of honest and frivolous journalism in
the entertainment space. And maybe it was never like that. Maybe,
you know, I was too young to realize that there
are tabloids and there are proper rozzi and people were
being blackmailed and all those things really did exist. So
(12:40):
maybe I have like wish fulfillment for something that never
even happened. But I know how I'm going to move
in the world, and I know that I have to
sleep at night, and so I'm not going to partake
in that shit period. Like we have to be kind
to each other, and you could be hilarious and still
be kind. I don't know why people think you can't.
You just have to try harder, bitch.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I love what you said there, and I really feel
like when I was going to school, there was this
like stigma that entertainment was just talking about, you know,
what the celebs are wearing, and it was like, you
need to do politics because that's the only way it
could be meaningful. Yeah, but I feel like today there's
so much media that really tries to entertain but also
tell stories. And I feel like that's also a big
(13:24):
part of comedy where you don't really realize that it's
there to entertain, but it's also there to tell stories
and to really tell what's happening in the.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
World and also feed the culture. You know, it's not
just a song, you know what I mean, Like, it's
not just a song. Like a lot of people didn't
know who Kenchrick Lamar was and now they do, and
his hidden messages in his halftime show. You know, we
were talking about stories that we're not even allowed to
(13:52):
tell anymore, maybe we never even were, you know. So
we're gonna take Black the Night and do what we do,
put it on a platform while we still can, and
can you talk to us.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
A little bit about your comedy career and kind of
how on that same note, like it might have evolved
over time, or what you're putting into your stand ups
now that might be different from when you started.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I mean to be honest. I was always that bitch,
you know, I just have a bigger platform. Now I
have a bigger stage. But I was on a small
stage somewhere in Atlanta doing a fifteen minute special for
Netflix eight years ago, and my bit was right out
of the MeToo movement, and the bit was called nobody
(14:36):
want to see you a dick? Like, why is everybody
taking the dick out? You know, somebody want to see
your dick? If they say, can I see your dick?
I'd like to see your dick please, That's how you
know if no one's saying that, don't take your dick out?
And then I named names, Oops, my ring flies off. Yeah,
you know it's like Harvey Weinstein, nobody wants to see
your Postrami dick. That's disgusting. So like, thank you so much.
(15:00):
I thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
So much, Peter.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
But yeah, I mean I've always been that bit. Just
just now I know that now I'm happy that people
know me.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I love that. I do want to talk a little
bit about just in season two, the last episode, just
a smidge, because I really loved this like small moment
right at the end when she is trying to kind
of don't get nervous. She's you know, she's saying, I'm
a New Yorker, I don't need anybody else, and then
(15:33):
she kind of has that moment where she's like, maybe
I could let someone else take care of me and
let someone else in and not have to do everything
on my own. Yeah. Oh, and I just that was
such a strong takeaway and I wanted to hear you
your thoughts on it.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
My mom raised me to be a very independent person,
but dating was so hard for me because I was like,
I can hold my own doors, I can pay for
my own drink. And then like guys be like the
what do you need me here for? And I'm like, good,
good question. Let me think about it. I'll get right
back to you. And so, you know Grace Edwards, who's
like an amazing writer and producer on the show, when
(16:08):
we were talking about this moment, she said this one
of her friends was dating this guy and nobody was
really sure this guy is the one. And then that
moment happened with a taxi where he stood up for
her and everybody was like, oh, he good, she's good,
he got this, and I was like, that is a
beautiful moment, and that spoke to me so hard for
(16:30):
any independent bitch who just keeps fighting and fighting and fighting,
clowing her way to whatever top that is, and someone
saying I got your back, also sit down and let
me do this for you. So I'm glad you picked
up on that because I thought it was a very
special moment.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So, I mean, as an independent person who's like I
don't need anyone, I was like, oh.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
This is Yes, that's a love language. It's just like, oh,
you do, got it? And I didn't have to ask you.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Oh good. I mean, yeah, I'm like, if someone wants
to fight my fights just a little, I'll let them.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Look, it's a love language.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
You're right, it is, and that it makes so much
sense now seeing it.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, your face is giving, it's glowing, it's giving.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's giving everything I need right now.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Thank you. I love you with this purple backdrop like
it's really it's poppin'. Ah look at us. Hey, congratulations
on season two. It's truly such an amazing series.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And I was talking with Michelle just about your friendship
and just how that came to be, and I really
just want to hear from you about you know, first
impressions of working with her and how that led us
to where we are today.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, I gotta tell you it is inappropriate how much
I feel like we are two peas in a pot,
and that I feel like I know this woman. I've
only met her through Survival of the Thickest. Initially, we
may have run into each other once or twice in
the New York City club scenes, because a lot of
the like stand up comic and drag entertainers and burlesque entertainers,
you know, New York City. Everybody mixes together New York City.
(18:26):
But my first official time meeting her was when I
was in the makeup chair and she came through into
the makeup chair room as well, filming season one, and we,
when I tell you, we screamed so loud I think
you can imagine. And ever since then, we've just been
(18:48):
screaming for the whole time. I love her so much.
I love her heart. I love how much she can
see people. She sees people, and I what I mean
by that is she sees the heart and their humanity first,
and that's what she seems to deal with, and that
seems to be what is important to her, and that
(19:09):
is certainly why we connect in the way that we do.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
And it was her.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I mean, if somebody told me when I first got
cast for season one and then obviously season two.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
When I if.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Somebody had told me, Oh, you're just gonna be in
the show and you're just gonna be fabulous every now
and again, I would take it.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I would take it.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But the fact that she was like, I'm going to
write some moments for you that are things that we've
not seen before.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Because our community needs it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Michelle, you know she is When I say, I mean,
she goes beyond what you would define as an ally.
She is a part of the queer community because of
how she loves and understands us and that is beautiful
and so I but I without those things, She's obviously hilarious,
(20:00):
she's obviously wild, and I love all those things about
her too.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
She's just a real goal She's a real gal.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
She is, yes, and she Yeah. We really got in
depth on just you know, the intention that she really
puts into the series, even behind the scenes in the background.
It's crazy, you know how much she puts in.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
There was without going into too much detail, there was
the scene that we were shooting in season one where
you know, the line between an actor and somebody who
brings an authenticity to that role can sometimes be blurry
when you're hiring as background talent drag entertainers and people
like that to be the authentic sort of uh support
talent that's in the in the show.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
And she.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
There was a moment where anyone who doesn't have experience
with drag queens might have said, Okay, that's it, you're done.
It's done. It's over, like you know, the day's over, goodbye.
She really took time and said, stop it.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
These girls are in drag and we can't just dismiss them.
We have to make sure that they're okay getting home
in drag alone through New York City at two or
three in the morning. And she's right, but that's not
something that most people would think about unless you know
and care about folks in the community and understand what
(21:24):
it's like. And that was early on in the season.
And I, although I loved her very much and was like, yes,
I love you, I live for you, I knew right
there that, like she really this was the cameras were
not rolling, this was like, this was her just saying no, no,
this is what's right, and that felt great. And so
she understands the community in a way that most people
(21:46):
probably wouldn't take the time to learn.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, and then you know, going into this season, like
she writes you, some some wonderful scenes, and especially in
episode six, we get to see a beautiful love story.
So I love to just hear from you. I mean
about creating those moments and then living through them and
bringing it to screen.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
You know, I just had no imagine.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It was not anywhere in my vision that when I
got hired to do this show after auditioning, that that
would be in the cards at all, Like I just
had I was not thinking that, And I asked myself
all the time, why is that? Because Michelle was able
to say, girl, this is yes, this, You're going to
do this.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
We're going to do this. This is important and not
only it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Could have just been like a little blip, like I
could have just ran and been like I got I
had a little moment, you know, and that was it.
She worked it into She weaved the love story of
my character with Harrison, my partner, through this episode and
then furthermore through the series in such a beautiful way.
(22:54):
It's like quilted like love Lovely Quilt. You know, that
time together and impacts other people's stories, other characters lives,
And we have some pivotal moments in seasons, in season six,
in episode six that in this version of the story
would not have been able to happen if if it
(23:17):
weren't for them, that moment with Peppermint. And I'm really
grateful for that because it shows the viewers that trans
people are needed and valuable in their lives, and can
be valuable in their lives, and certainly are valuable to
the lives of the other characters in this in the series.
And she I'm just really grateful that she saw it
important to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Absolutely, And you even got, you know, a little moment
to give a speech. And so I wanted to ask
in the show, like did you have an opportunity to
write that or was it a co writing and like
how did you know what you know you wanted to
share in that moment.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, it was written initially, you know, for me in
the script, and then pretty much everybody in the writing
team said, we want you to do we want this
to be authentic, so please let's talk, let's collaborate. And
I had a chance to collaborate on that, as I
have with so many the other moments that are meant
to really reflect the authenticity of my character, everything from
(24:15):
lines and script to the wardrobe, you know, being very
collaborative and understanding the vision together, and that is it's
just really special because I've been on many sets where
the burden for bringing authenticity to the project is solely
on the shoulder of me as the performer, or the
(24:36):
other extreme, where like, this is what we think you are,
but we're not going to ask you this is what
we're you know. And so this was a beautiful sort
of amalgamation of all the different things that we needed
to do. I was able to learn from them and
what we wanted and what they wanted, and we were
able to bring some authenticity to it, and especially that
speech moment, and I could have I could have written
(24:58):
it a hundred I feel like I've never been in
that exact scenario before, but I feel like if I
were in that scenario, that's exactly what I would have said.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It was very powerful, very moving. I loved every second.
I can't wait for everyone else to see it. And
it's just, you know, it is bringing such beautiful trans
representation to our screens. And I know that you know
now more than ever that is so important, and also
that you have been advocating for this to be bigger
in reality TV. So I kind of wanted to ask
(25:30):
you about that initiative and how that got started.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, I serve on the board of GLAD, which is
they've expressed and has expressed and importance in advocating for
trans people, specifically in the wake of everything that we're experiencing.
And one of the things that GLAD has done historically
is been able to help move the needle and change
(25:55):
the narrative in traditional media, scripted film, and television things
like that, those areas, but reality TV, considering how like
major it is, I mean, everybody's watching reality TV, still
has some ground to make up. And so I partnered
with Frankie Grande to UH and ask some other people
to come on board and one of the very first
(26:15):
people to come on board and sign our open letter
to the reality TV industry producers, writers, things like that,
casting directors, networks.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
UH.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
One of the we pin this open letter asking them
to just do better and be more inclusive not only
with people that are on camera, but build a set
of people who are behind the scenes, you know, whether
they're in the hair and makeup department, whether they're producers,
or whether they are driving the van to the thing,
whatever it is. Be more inclusive, like consider hiring people,
(26:47):
especially if they're part of a marginalized group that is
being shunned and left out in society. Then they don't
have access to the things like money and jobs and
things like that. And so it's twofold and if you
have build a set like that, then and you're going
to have a better product. And that is one of
the things that Michelle has done with season two, with
the entire series of Survival of the Thickest in partnership
(27:08):
with Netflix, and so it's no surprise that she was
one of the first people to sign that letter in
support to the reality TV industry.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And I mean, just going off of that, like, obviously
this is something that we definitely want to see more of.
Is there a certain project that you have in mind
that you would really like to to bring and for
people to see.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, I would love to have another turn on Traders.
I'm not gonna lie. It's one of my favorite reality
TV shows and I would I think I think I think,
I think, I think, okay, but then also you know, yeah,
I'm I'm big into horror and murder mystery. So if
I had the chance to produce something that was reality
TV based, then I would probably want to go along
those same lines, you know, something that's kind of wild
(27:50):
and scary, because I love.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
But I think the America could benefit from seeing a
moment I think America could benefit from like the Bachelorette,
the trans Bachelorette, or the trans Masculine, the trans mail Bachelor.
Let's show our experiences. Let's show queer love and queer
(28:14):
existence in a way that's not just tragedy. You know,
that's not just struggle all the time. Yes, we struggle,
we're struggling now, but we also struggle doesn't exist without triumph,
it doesn't exist. They're two sides of the same coin,
and so let's show that other side of the coin.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
So we're manifesting Traders another season and then hosting the
Gay Bachelor.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Hello, That's what I'm talking about, Darling. It's going to
be everything. I would watch it.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I yeah, I'm already on board. And I did want
to say that the show also tackles obviously just being
comfortable with yourself, with your body image, with your sexuality,
everything like that. And I feel like that's another topic
that is harder now than it should be. It feels
(29:04):
like it's not going in a forward direction. So do
you have anything any thoughts on that and just how
important this show is with that?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's I mean, it's it's key, and I think you
know you it's I think it is easy maybe on
paper to look at oh LGBT issues or like issues
that are important to black women, or issues that are
disabled people, or body image issues.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's able.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's it's easy on paper to kind of separate those things,
but they all are intertwined. You know, I, as a
trans woman, have had the most stress and streff I've
gone through has been about my body and how it's seen,
how I move through space and time, not time. I'm
not a time traveler, although I look way younger than
(29:48):
most people think I am. And the point is, and
so that is something that everyone deals with, and these
are human issues. We deal with them, these issues, whether
it's our body, whether it's how we look and appear,
our our skin, our you know, our sexuality, and our gender,
whatever it is, we deal with those issues because we
are human and those are human issues, and so zooming
(30:12):
out that is something that I think is universal and
that we do so well on this show. Is that,
unlike maybe kurrent administration and current times, instead of crossing
out these groups because we don't want them to be
there because we don't like d Ei, we're saying, this
is what exists, this is what is in the garden
(30:33):
of life, right, And so I guess I'm getting hungry,
So let's just show it because they exist, we exist,
you know, and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
We're just trying to have the world look how that
world actually looks, because that's you know at all.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I loved everything we've talked about so far, and I
just wanted to end on kind of a happy note.
With everything going on, What are you doing to stay joyful?
To stay happy?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I am definitely going to go to the movies and
have ice cream and candy with my girlfriends sometime this week.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
That's a joyous thing for me.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
And if I'm not able to do that this week,
because it's only because I'm having one of the most
joyous experiences of my life being able to celebrate and
promote a show like Survival of the Tickets. Being able
to promote season two a Survival of the Thickets is
one of the most joyous things I've ever done. It's
one of them. Professionally, it's one of the things that
(31:36):
I'm most proud of, even for my small contribution to it.
And I'm just grateful to be able to have these
conversations with people because they are so timely, and I
think that that is really, really key. And so I
get the most amount of joy from being able to
watch this, to participate in serving this to other people
(31:57):
and allow and introducing it.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
To other people.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And then I'm gonna get a whole lot of joy
sitting with my ice cream cake and candy watching it binge,
no doubt, binge watching it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
When I'm home alone with my no boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I mean me too, I get it. I'm here with
my cake too. But you know, it's still it's still good.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
It's great. I ain't not unhappy about it. My partner
is the refrigerator. Okay, we're getting into a weird zone.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, well, thank you so much. Congratulations on the show.
It was lovely talking to you.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Survival of the Thickest. Season two is now streaming on Netflix.
Make sure to subscribe to Pride anywhere you listen or
watch podcasts, and follow us on socials at Pride. I'll
see you next time.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Station Street Estitional sation of gestisation
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