June 5, 2025 • 31 mins
Right now in true crime: Steven Lawson guilty, brooks trial coming up later this month. LVD sick in court on Monday, Jake Wagner update
In 1986 16-year-old Carmel Fenech disappeared in the UK. Although Carmel had some addiction issues from a young age, she would always come back home until the day that she didn’t. We are going to discuss Carmels story, where it stands today and how you can help propel her story forward.
Sources for episode:
https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/southwark/my-daughter-disappeared-off-the-face-of-the-earth-25-years-ago-please-help-me-says-carmel-fenechs-mum/
https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex/news/witness-appeals/detectives-continue-to-investigate-disappearance-of-teenage-girl-in-1998/
https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Carmel_Fenech
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/2317dfuk.html
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-missing/id1541313692?i=1000617482113
In 1986 16-year-old Carmel Fenech disappeared in the UK. Although Carmel had some addiction issues from a young age, she would always come back home until the day that she didn’t. We are going to discuss Carmels story, where it stands today and how you can help propel her story forward.
Sources for episode:
https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/southwark/my-daughter-disappeared-off-the-face-of-the-earth-25-years-ago-please-help-me-says-carmel-fenechs-mum/
https://www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex/news/witness-appeals/detectives-continue-to-investigate-disappearance-of-teenage-girl-in-1998/
https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Carmel_Fenech
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/2317dfuk.html
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-missing/id1541313692?i=1000617482113
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Primetime Crime. I'm your host, Kylie. Let's talk
right now in True crime, and then together we are
going to work on warming up some cold cases. Let's go. Hey, guys,
welcome to another episode of Primetime Crime. It's Kylie. We
are going to go ahead and get into right now
in True Crime. We have a few things to talk about.
So shortly after I recorded last week's Right Now in
(00:21):
True Crime, they did come back with the verdict to
the Stephen Lawson trial. He was on trial for conspiracy
to commit murder in the case of Crystal Rogers and
they found him guilty, which I'm so happy about. And
the jury has recommended a sentence of seventeen years for
(00:43):
the crimes. So he did testify on his own behalf.
He testified that he did not really take Brooks how
seriously about wanting Crystal gone. However, Stephen Lawson had recommended
another person to Brooks that could potentially help with getting
rid of Crystal essentially, and even though he said he
(01:06):
really didn't take him seriously, I think he kind of did,
so I don't think he did himself any favors. During
his testimony, he did acknowledge that he helped his son,
Joseph Lawson, pick up Crystal's car sometime in the afternoon
of July third, and then he said he went to
a farm that he referred to as Thompson Ridge, and
(01:28):
then he saw Joe arrive in Crystal's car, and then
he told his son to get off of the property.
And prosecutors very much said that his part of the plot,
part of the reason that he was involved, was because
he was supposed to take the car and make it disappear,
essentially to create an illusion that Crystal had run out
(01:48):
on her family and left her children, which we know
she would never do. She was a mother of five.
And Steve said he doesn't have any idea why Brooks
asked him to do it. He didn't ask any questions,
and he said that he needed the car to be moved,
so he didn't ask why, and he just moved the car.
He also admitted to moving the seat forward in the
(02:11):
car to make it appear that Crystal was driving the
car and therefore kind of create this theory that she
left on her own. But the jury got it right.
He was a thousand percent involved. Why he involved himself
in this plot is just completely astonishing to me. And
Joseph Lawson and Brooks how are going to be tried
(02:32):
together on Tuesday, June twenty fourth, That's when it's going
to start. It is going to get interesting. I cannot
wait for the trial to commence. I think it's going
to be so interesting. I don't believe that cameras are
going to be allowed in the courtroom, but it's going
to be interesting. We are slowly but surely getting justice
(02:53):
for Crystal Rogers, and then hopefully we can get justice
for her father who was killed in the midst of
trying to advocate and try to find his daughter. It's
going to be really interesting to see this all unfold.
I feel like Brooks his time is running out, and
there is no one more deserving of that than Brooks. Houck.
All right, we are now moving on to Lourie Valo
(03:18):
day Bell. Let me tell you, guys, it has been
quite the journey. Just when you think that things are
finally coming to it and the last trial is happening,
We're finally going to get justice for Brandon. Things are
moving smoothly. Laurie Valo gets sick. Now is she really sick?
We do not know, but girlfriend played it up big time.
(03:42):
On Friday, she was saying she wasn't feeling well, and
the judge told her, if you're not feeling well on Monday,
you need to let me know before that so we
can postpone do whatever we need to do. But I
need to know before Monday. Well, she shows up on Monday,
oct in up. She comes in in a wheelchair. She
is all the dramatics, the waterworks. I saw that woman.
(04:06):
I didn't actually see it because it wasn't live streamed,
but she cried and sobbed more about not feeling well
than she ever cried for her two children, who she
burned in a pile on Chad Dabell's property. She was
on one on Monday. So the judge, of course, he's
(04:27):
trying to be accommodating to her. Now she has tried
to have this judge accuse himself, saying he doesn't like
her and he's not fair with her, and she has
not gotten her way on that. She has pushed and
done so much to try to make things difficult during
this case. I don't know if she's doing it because
(04:48):
she really doesn't feel well, or she's doing it because
she is officially lost control, and she's about to have
to face the one person that she did not succeed
in killing, and that is Brandon. I don't know what
it is. She might not feel well, the dramatics are
a little much. You don't need a wheelchair. You're perfectly
capable to walk. So he gave her Tuesday to rest
(05:11):
and chill and told her you need to be back
in court on Wednesday, and you need to be ready
to go because they still have to pick a jury.
They're now running behind because they were already supposed to
be starting. So she came into court today she was
saying she wasn't feeling well, she had a headache, she
just wasn't herself, and the judge made her carry on
(05:33):
because they need to pick this jury. A lot of
these people have come for this jury selection and they
need to get it and get it done asap. So
they officially have a jury and tomorrow openings will start
and they need to be prepared with their case by tomorrow.
So they have a jury of eight men, eight women,
(05:55):
and there are four people who are alternates, and one
of the jury was a four person in a simple
trial years ago. So that's an interesting little tidbit. They
didn't really have any issues picking the jury. With the
last trial, I feel like there was a lot of
things that went on, but this trial seems pretty straightforward
minus Laurie and her dramatics. We are on track, so
(06:18):
opening start on Thursday and then we should be ready
to go. Horrible update to bring you guys coming out
of Washington. Three young girls, young young girls, Olivia, Evelyn,
and Peyton. They were on a visit with their father.
He was struggling with some mental health stuff. He had
(06:42):
been in the military but was discharged from military, been
struggling with some mental health stuff. He was homeless, kind
of living in his vehicle, living at some different campgrounds,
and they found his three young daughters murdered, which is horrible.
He is currently still at large. He is considered armed
(07:02):
and dangerous. His name is Travis Ducker. It is floating
all around social media right now that people are looking
for him. He is wanted for their murder. Horrible. I
can't even imagine what their mother is thinking during all
of this. I can't even fathom what is going through
(07:23):
her head right now. And these poor girls that it's
just so sad, so horrible. At the time of this recording,
he is still has not been found. He has not
been located, and like I said, he is considered armed
and dangerous. Check out social media if you want to
see a photo of him. But it's just a really
(07:43):
sad and tragic ending to these girls being missing, that
they have been found dead, they've been brutally taken by
their father. It is awful and horrible and tragic. Okay,
last thing I want to talk about now. This is
a little bit of a spoiler alert in the summer
series I'm doing, but there is Jake Wagner news, so
(08:05):
I feel like I need to talk about it. So
we're going to talk about it in summer series, but
we're going to talk about it right now too. So
Jake Wagner obviously was one of the big people that
was involved in killing eight members of the Rodent family
in twenty sixteen. Now, he took a plea deal, he
(08:27):
pled guilty, and then he also testified against his brother
during his brother's trial. We're getting into all of that
in summer series. But he was given a sentence of
life in prison with the possibility of parole after thirty
two years because he's been cooperative with the authorities and
when they gave him that sentence, he was shocked by
(08:49):
that that he could possibly get out in thirty two
years because Jake's young, so he could be out in
no time. So the state has appealed that decision and
appealed that cent. So we are kind of in limbo
on that. I'll be sure to keep you guys updated,
and all of that is going to be coming up
on Summer Series. So if you want all of the
(09:09):
details on all the Jake Wagner of it all or
the Wagner family of it all, you can find it
in Summer Series. So we are going to go ahead
and get into today's episode. Okay, guys, we are diving
into a brand new unsolved case today. For this week's episode,
I am going to be taking you to the UK,
where I'm going to be telling you about the nineteen
(09:31):
ninety eight disappearance of a sixteen year old girl named
Carmel Fennick. Now, Carmel also did go by the name
Carmel Pendriy, so you might hear that as well as
I am telling you about her case. Investigators do fear
that Carmel was murdered. However, she has never been found,
and she remains a missing person to this day. For
(09:54):
my research for this case, I'm going to link all
of them below, but I also listen to a podcast
episode from The Missing about Carmel. During this episode, they
interviewed Carmel's mother, Dedra, and I got a lot of
my information from listening to this interview and listening to
the podcast. It was really well done and getting to
(10:15):
hear from Dedra really puts everything into perspective about Carmel,
her disappearance, everything. So I'm going to be sure to
link that podcast episode below as well in the show notes.
So if you want a little more information and you
want to hear from Dedre herself, please go listen to
that episode. It was really well done. Carmel was born
(10:35):
on July third of nineteen eighty one in London. She
was the third of five children that her mom, Dejra
had now Dedro was a single mom, and honestly, from
everything I've seen, it sounds to me like she was
a really, really good mom. She did everything she could
to provide for her kids, be supportive of her kids,
(10:56):
and she said that she had a really great network
of supporters that surrounded her her family and she always
did everything she could to try and protect her children.
So when Carmel was young, her and her family lived
in the same area that Deidra was raised in. Deidre
said it is a very middle class type of neighborhood,
that she had a great childhood and that they were
(11:17):
really happy there when Carmel was young. When Carmel turned five,
the family ended up being rehoused and ended up living
in North Peckham Estate in southeast London. Now, this area,
unfortunately was not the best area. It was a lot
different from where they had previously been living, and there
were a lot of thugs. There were a lot of
drug dealers, but Deidre said that they did what they could,
(11:41):
They made the best of it, and they still had
a great community that surrounded them, a friends and family.
Carmel was a very happy, go lucky girl. She loved
to make people laugh. As she got older, her transition
into secondary school, which for my assumption is kind of
like our inner mediate school or junior high school here
(12:02):
in the United States, it got tough for her. Carmel
was a tiny girl, standing at only five foot tall,
and she walked with a limp due to having one
leg shorter than the other. For this reason, unfortunately, Carmel
was bullied and for whatever reason, I don't know what
it is about kids that age. I feel like it's
nationwide that there's something about kids that age that just
(12:24):
make them horrible. So unfortunately, Carmel did deal with some
bullying and that I'm sure was pretty impactful on her,
given that she was a younger girl and she was
dealing with something like that and living in a new area,
and I'm sure it just all was really tough for her.
So two significant things happened to Carmel when she was
fourteen years old. So when she turned fourteen, her biological
(12:47):
father came back into her life and wanted to have
contact with her. He was in a new relationship, he
had a new son, and he expressed interest in wanting
to have a relationship with Carmel. Was very hesitant about
this because he had not been in Carmel's life since
she was about three years old. But he had said
that he wanted Carmel to come visit him, and Carmel
(13:10):
very much wanted to go because she had a new
little brother and I'm sure that she craved a father
figure in her life because he had not been in
her life since she was pretty young. So Deirdre ended
up letting Carmel go to visit him, and when she
got there, things did not go as planned. Now, Carmel,
(13:32):
although she was fourteen, she was very mature, she was
very independent. She smoked cigarettes and this was something that
I guess her father didn't really approve of, and he
didn't really know what he was getting himself into because
the last time he had saw his daughter was when
she was three, and she is now fourteen. She goes
(13:53):
and hangs out with friends and that is just how
her life is now she has grown up. And he
didn't like this at all. So she ended up leaving
the visit with her dad early and ended up going
back to her mom's house. And then we have another
event that transpired that ended up changing everything for Carmel.
(14:15):
When she was fourteen, she attended a birthday party for
a classmate and it was there that she met a
man who was forty at the time, and this man
would eventually become Carmel's boyfriend. Now, I'm not sure why
this man was at a birthday party for somebody who
was younger if he was a parent of another kid.
(14:36):
If he was just a general overall creepe that hung
out at teenager birthday parties, I'm not really sure the
context of where he came from and how he fits in,
but it's also important to note that in the nineties,
sixteen was considered a legal adult in London, whereas now
they have raised the aged eighteen, which is very similar
(14:56):
to the United States. So Carmel meets this man, and
I'm only stating my opinion on this that i think
Carmel really enjoyed getting the attention from this man because
she wasn't used to that kind of positive attention from
others besides people in her family. She was bullied and
(15:17):
teased a lot at school, and I'm sure this man
giving her any type of attention made her feel really,
really good. Despite the fact that I think this man
was likely a predator praying upon somebody who was young
because she was fourteen, so she technically wasn't of legal
age at this point in time. But I'm sure this
(15:38):
man lit up her world with everything that he was
telling her, and in her eyes, he hung the moon
and was the best thing ever. So this guy ended
up getting Carmel addicted to drugs, and before she knew it,
she was addicted to crack cocaine. And from there she
would be known to frequent homes in Brixton and Lewisham,
(16:01):
and these were areas that were known for criminal activity
and drug use. Now, unfortunately, from there, Carmel just kind
of spiraled. She was mixed up with this older man,
She was mixed up with drugs, she was hanging out
with unsavory people, and at one point in time she
was caught shoplifting. And there was just a lot going
(16:21):
on with Carmel. She was very young, she didn't really
have a lot of stability in her life outside of
her family home, and there was just a lot going on.
Carmel's mom, Dedra, at one point even said that she
begged the judge to lock Carmel up because she needed
to try and keep her safe. And everything that was
(16:43):
going on with Carmel's drug habit, her petty theft habit
to pay for all the drugs, was leading her down
a really really dark path. And as much as Dedra
loved her daughter and wanted to help her, her hands
were tied with a lot of what was going on,
and Dedre said that despite Carmel having a drug habit,
she didn't look like she was on drugs. She presented
(17:06):
herself in such a way and composed herself in such
a way. She was never rude, never mean, or anything
like that. And it's obvious to me, just as an
outsider looking in that Carmel was just a kid who
was struggling, trying to get by and unfortunately was introduced
to a not so great lifestyle by a much older man,
(17:26):
and then she was just in this vicious cycle that
she couldn't get out of. Now. Deirdre obviously knew that
her daughter had a problem and wanted to try to
protect her, so she ended up moving the family away
from there, so they ended up moving to Crawley in
East Sussex. But unfortunately, Carmel at this point would just
run away and return to the areas and the people
(17:49):
that were such poor influences on her. So there would
often be a lot of times that Carmel would go missing,
but she would always return home. Would see her out
and about, they would call Dedra and then Carmel ended
up returning home. So it was not at all out
of the ordinary for Carmel to run off due to
(18:12):
what she was dealing with, the drug habit, the friends,
all the things. She was a teenager. And although Dedra
knew that Carmel was struggling and had an addiction, she
said that anytime that Carmel would return home, she acted
very normal and like I said, she was never rude,
She was never disrespectful or anything like that with her family.
She just acted like a normal kid. It was almost
(18:34):
like she had two separate lives. There were often times
that Carmel would go missing. Deidra would go out in
the streets of London looking for her, and that was
just something that had become normal at this point in
their lives. But like I said, Carmel always returned home.
There was never a time that she was gone four
(18:54):
months or years or anything like that. And like I said,
she did really good job at keeping her two lives separate.
She literally had two lives now. There was an instance
where Carmel had called Dedra from a payphone and said
that the man that she was with had beat her,
(19:15):
and from there she ended up coming home and Deidre
thought for the first time in a long time that
Carmel was starting to realize the effects of her lifestyle
that she had gotten herself into. At this point, Dedra
was hopeful that Carmel was going to see the light
and she was going to be okay. She was safe,
she was sound, she was staying with her mom, living
(19:36):
at home, and she was off of drugs. Because she
started to look more like herself and act more like herself.
It was at this point that Dedra decided that she
was going to have some professional photos taken of her
and the kids. They were having a really good sale
on these photos and she thought it was the perfect
opportunity to take advantage of. So she did have those
(19:59):
photos take of herself and the kids, and Carmel had
asked and begged to have a photo taken by herself,
and despite this costing a little extra, Dedre decided to
let her do it. And the photo that I'm referencing
is going to be used as a cover photo for
this episode, so if you do want to see it,
(20:20):
you will see it as you're listening to this episode.
Carmel was such a cute girl, and I could tell
in that photo that she really looked like she was
getting her life on track. But unfortunately, these are the
last photos that Dedra has of Carmel because right after this,
Carmel would go missing, and this time she would not
(20:40):
return home. So following this, Carmel ended up taking off
again and Dedre received a phone call from a London
police officer, one that she had gotten close with over
the years because he always looked out for Carmel. So
this police officer said, Carmel got caught shoplifting again and
she has a court hearing, and the officer asked Dedra
(21:04):
if she could show up for the hearing, and she did.
She made it work and when she showed up, she
was shocked by Carmel's appearance. She had lost so much weight,
she was not looking well. And although at this point
Carmel tried to reassure her mom that she was fine,
Dedra knew different. Dedra knew her daughter, and this is
(21:26):
when she begged the court system to do something to
try and help Carmel, because Dedra had been doing everything
she could to try to navigate everything, but she was
at a loss and she had lost control of her child.
There was no way that she was going to be
able to help her daughter by herself. With everything that
had just transpired. She thought that she had finally gotten
(21:48):
through to Carmel, but it was obvious that she hadn't.
She was still mixed up with the people that were
involved in drugs and who knows what else was going on,
and she was really worried for her safety. She thought
that the best chance that Carmel would have was to
be locked up somewhere in a safe home where she
wasn't allowed to come and go as she pleased. So
(22:08):
with that, Carmel was placed into a children's home. But
this home was not a locked unit, so Carmel would
come and go as she wanted, but she did have
to tuck in by nine pm, and she did. She
followed the rules. She always came back by nine pm.
In one of the last conversations Carmel had with her mom,
Dedra Deirdre had expressed to her how much she loved
(22:30):
her and that is the reason that they went this
route to have her placed in a home, and Carmel
realized this and said that she knew that she was
actually going to get help this time, and she wasn't
upset with her mom. She was grateful to her mom
for doing everything she could to help her. Now, unfortunately,
(22:51):
this is the last conversation that Carmel and Dietra had.
A few days after that, Carmel had a conversation with
her sister where she told older sister that she thought
she might be pregnant and that she was going to
go to London on May twenty third to tell the
guy who she thought was the baby's father about the pregnancy.
So she did make it to London that day and
(23:14):
she ended up being picked up again by law enforcement
and was back in court now that day. The judge
ended up finding her all but one pound of the
money that she had on her and he let her
walk out of court that day, and she was last
seen with an unidentified man and from there Carmel went
missing and has not been seen or heard from since.
(23:36):
The date of when exactly she went missing is unknown,
but from what I've seen, it's between May twenty first
and May twenty third. Dedre knew that this was a
serious situation when it was June and nobody, not even
Carmel's sister, had heard from her. This was very out
of the ordinary for Carmel because no matter what, she
(23:58):
always would keep up with her family. She wouldn't go
more than a couple of days without phoning her sister,
and Deirdre just knew when her gut something was wrong. Unfortunately,
Deirdre had a really hard time getting law enforcement to
take her seriously. Because Deirdre had reported Carmel missing so
many times in the past, they didn't take this one
(24:19):
as a different type of scenario. They basically said, she'll
come back. She just ran away, She'll come back, she
always does. But this happened in nineteen ninety eight, and
all of these years later, Carmel remains missing and nobody
has seen or heard from her since that day in
nineteen ninety eight. And I have to reiterate, it's so
(24:40):
frustrating that just because somebody has a pattern of disappearing
and popping back up, that does not make a disappearance
any less important, of any less urgency, and it doesn't
mean that law enforcement shouldn't take it seriously. Now, law
enforcement were super aware of Carmel and all of her
(25:01):
transgressions all of the time she went missing, so they
did not take it seriously. There was a lack of
urgency in trying to find her and trying to figure
out what happened, because she would eventually always pop back
up and this was just her lifestyle. But Deirdre was
adamant that this time was different and there was something
majorly wrong. And she was right, because, like I said,
(25:25):
Carmel is still missing, and unfortunately, whatever happened to her,
whoever harmed her, they got away with it because they
knew that they could. Now, I'm not really sure if
the man that Carmel originally met at the birthday party
that got her started on drugs and everything is the
same man that later abused her and is the same
(25:48):
man that she was last seen with. Because she was
last seen with this man at the courthouse, I don't
know if this is the same person. I also think
Carmel was always pretty hesitant to say that this man
was her boyfriend, but he obviously was involved with her
in some way, shape or form, and he led her
down a really, really, really dark path. And I think
(26:11):
that this person likely has preyed upon other young individuals
and probably just bounces from person to person and victimizes
people every chance he gets. Again, that is just my opinion.
Now I'm not fully sure on this, but I don't
even believe that the man that Carmel was last seen
(26:32):
with was even thoroughly questioned as to what he knows,
Deidre said quote he said he hardly knew Mike Carmel
and just felt sorry for her. But she was often
found at his house, So I think there's more to
it end quote. And there has to be more to
it because this man obviously had some connection to her.
(26:54):
She trusted him obviously if she was at his house.
I have major questions for this man because I feel
like he might have the missing puzzle piece to what
happened to Carmel. But for whatever reason, he was not
really thoroughly questioned. So there has to be more going
on here. There has to be more to it. I
(27:16):
don't know what the answer is, but Carmel is still missing. Now.
There is an age progress photo of Carmel that I'm
going to be sharing on my Instagram and Facebook pages,
so be sure to check that out. She would be
forty four years old today if she is still alive
and well and out there. She is described as five
(27:37):
foot to five one, having black or brown shoulder length hair,
brown eyes. She has a scar on the center of
her forehead, and she has a very slim build. Like
I said, I'm going to be sharing photos of her
on my Instagram and Facebook pages, as well as the
age progressed photo. Somebody out there knows something about what
(27:58):
happened to Carmel, whether it's the person that had something
to do with her disappearance, whether it's somebody that has
a little piece of information that they don't realize they
have a piece of information, whether it's somebody that was
in a pub one night and somebody said something about
Carmel and they haven't quite pieced it together yet. Loyalties
(28:21):
change and it is time to come forward. It has
been a long time. This girl went missing in nineteen
ninety eight, and I think it's about time that her
family got some closure as to what happened to her.
And she obviously hasn't come back, so something is majorly wrong.
(28:41):
If anybody has any information, they are encouraged to get
in touch or call crime Stoppers at eight hundred five
fix five one one one, and if you google Carmel Fennik,
there is a lot of resources and information ways to
contact law enforce if you believe you have something that
(29:02):
might be helpful to their investigation. Now, earlier I talked
about the police officer that had talked with Dedra and
was very familiar with Carmel, kind of looked out for
her and would always call Dedra when he had picked
her up or she was supposed to go to court.
Dedra still keeps up with him. He left London because
(29:25):
he saw some of the things that were going on
in the area that Carmel was living and knew that
it wasn't going to be an ideal place to raise
his family, so he ended up leaving. But he now
has kids, he's married, and he still keeps up with Dedra.
And he was one person that Deirdre said was such
(29:46):
a good person. He always looked out for Carmel. He
was always willing to help her and do whatever he
could to kind of support her in this journey. And
I think that's really a cool part of this story
is that they still do have a relationship, They still
chat and despite the department overall not really helping Dedra,
(30:07):
this one man was a shining light and it just
goes to show you that there are good people out there,
people who really go above and beyond in their job.
And I think the fact that he still does communicate
with Dedra really shows that he really cares. And I
think that's admirable. So I did want to include that
because I think that's a nice little part of the story.
(30:28):
Despite there being so many unanswered questions about what happened
to Carmel, it's nice to know that there was someone
that really always did have her back on the other side,
her other life, because this girl really did have two
separate lives and they often did intersect, but she did
a really good job at keeping them separate. And she
(30:49):
had her home life and then she had her social life,
which unfortunately took a drastic turn, and for that reason,
she is missing today. So be sure to check out
my Instagram and Facebook pages. If you aren't following me
over there, please do. Also, if you're listening on Apple
or Spotify, please leave me a five star review. I
(31:09):
would really really appreciate it. It just helps push the
podcast out to more listeners, more people that are consuming
true crime content. And at the end of the day,
my mission with this podcast is just to get these
episodes on as many eyes and ears as possible, because
that is how we're going to draw attention to these
lesser known, unsolved cases. And that is my mission, that
(31:31):
is important, that is why I do what I do so.
Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you
have a fantastic weekend and I will see you next
week for a brand new unsolved case. Have a good
one bye,
Welcome to Primetime Crime. I'm your host, Kylie. Let's talk
right now in True crime, and then together we are
going to work on warming up some cold cases. Let's go. Hey, guys,
welcome to another episode of Primetime Crime. It's Kylie. We
are going to go ahead and get into right now
in True Crime. We have a few things to talk about.
So shortly after I recorded last week's Right Now in
(00:21):
True Crime, they did come back with the verdict to
the Stephen Lawson trial. He was on trial for conspiracy
to commit murder in the case of Crystal Rogers and
they found him guilty, which I'm so happy about. And
the jury has recommended a sentence of seventeen years for
(00:43):
the crimes. So he did testify on his own behalf.
He testified that he did not really take Brooks how
seriously about wanting Crystal gone. However, Stephen Lawson had recommended
another person to Brooks that could potentially help with getting
rid of Crystal essentially, and even though he said he
(01:06):
really didn't take him seriously, I think he kind of did,
so I don't think he did himself any favors. During
his testimony, he did acknowledge that he helped his son,
Joseph Lawson, pick up Crystal's car sometime in the afternoon
of July third, and then he said he went to
a farm that he referred to as Thompson Ridge, and
(01:28):
then he saw Joe arrive in Crystal's car, and then
he told his son to get off of the property.
And prosecutors very much said that his part of the plot,
part of the reason that he was involved, was because
he was supposed to take the car and make it disappear,
essentially to create an illusion that Crystal had run out
(01:48):
on her family and left her children, which we know
she would never do. She was a mother of five.
And Steve said he doesn't have any idea why Brooks
asked him to do it. He didn't ask any questions,
and he said that he needed the car to be moved,
so he didn't ask why, and he just moved the car.
He also admitted to moving the seat forward in the
(02:11):
car to make it appear that Crystal was driving the
car and therefore kind of create this theory that she
left on her own. But the jury got it right.
He was a thousand percent involved. Why he involved himself
in this plot is just completely astonishing to me. And
Joseph Lawson and Brooks how are going to be tried
(02:32):
together on Tuesday, June twenty fourth, That's when it's going
to start. It is going to get interesting. I cannot
wait for the trial to commence. I think it's going
to be so interesting. I don't believe that cameras are
going to be allowed in the courtroom, but it's going
to be interesting. We are slowly but surely getting justice
(02:53):
for Crystal Rogers, and then hopefully we can get justice
for her father who was killed in the midst of
trying to advocate and try to find his daughter. It's
going to be really interesting to see this all unfold.
I feel like Brooks his time is running out, and
there is no one more deserving of that than Brooks. Houck.
All right, we are now moving on to Lourie Valo
(03:18):
day Bell. Let me tell you, guys, it has been
quite the journey. Just when you think that things are
finally coming to it and the last trial is happening,
We're finally going to get justice for Brandon. Things are
moving smoothly. Laurie Valo gets sick. Now is she really sick?
We do not know, but girlfriend played it up big time.
(03:42):
On Friday, she was saying she wasn't feeling well, and
the judge told her, if you're not feeling well on Monday,
you need to let me know before that so we
can postpone do whatever we need to do. But I
need to know before Monday. Well, she shows up on Monday,
oct in up. She comes in in a wheelchair. She
is all the dramatics, the waterworks. I saw that woman.
(04:06):
I didn't actually see it because it wasn't live streamed,
but she cried and sobbed more about not feeling well
than she ever cried for her two children, who she
burned in a pile on Chad Dabell's property. She was
on one on Monday. So the judge, of course, he's
(04:27):
trying to be accommodating to her. Now she has tried
to have this judge accuse himself, saying he doesn't like
her and he's not fair with her, and she has
not gotten her way on that. She has pushed and
done so much to try to make things difficult during
this case. I don't know if she's doing it because
(04:48):
she really doesn't feel well, or she's doing it because
she is officially lost control, and she's about to have
to face the one person that she did not succeed
in killing, and that is Brandon. I don't know what
it is. She might not feel well, the dramatics are
a little much. You don't need a wheelchair. You're perfectly
capable to walk. So he gave her Tuesday to rest
(05:11):
and chill and told her you need to be back
in court on Wednesday, and you need to be ready
to go because they still have to pick a jury.
They're now running behind because they were already supposed to
be starting. So she came into court today she was
saying she wasn't feeling well, she had a headache, she
just wasn't herself, and the judge made her carry on
(05:33):
because they need to pick this jury. A lot of
these people have come for this jury selection and they
need to get it and get it done asap. So
they officially have a jury and tomorrow openings will start
and they need to be prepared with their case by tomorrow.
So they have a jury of eight men, eight women,
(05:55):
and there are four people who are alternates, and one
of the jury was a four person in a simple
trial years ago. So that's an interesting little tidbit. They
didn't really have any issues picking the jury. With the
last trial, I feel like there was a lot of
things that went on, but this trial seems pretty straightforward
minus Laurie and her dramatics. We are on track, so
(06:18):
opening start on Thursday and then we should be ready
to go. Horrible update to bring you guys coming out
of Washington. Three young girls, young young girls, Olivia, Evelyn,
and Peyton. They were on a visit with their father.
He was struggling with some mental health stuff. He had
(06:42):
been in the military but was discharged from military, been
struggling with some mental health stuff. He was homeless, kind
of living in his vehicle, living at some different campgrounds,
and they found his three young daughters murdered, which is horrible.
He is currently still at large. He is considered armed
(07:02):
and dangerous. His name is Travis Ducker. It is floating
all around social media right now that people are looking
for him. He is wanted for their murder. Horrible. I
can't even imagine what their mother is thinking during all
of this. I can't even fathom what is going through
(07:23):
her head right now. And these poor girls that it's
just so sad, so horrible. At the time of this recording,
he is still has not been found. He has not
been located, and like I said, he is considered armed
and dangerous. Check out social media if you want to
see a photo of him. But it's just a really
(07:43):
sad and tragic ending to these girls being missing, that
they have been found dead, they've been brutally taken by
their father. It is awful and horrible and tragic. Okay,
last thing I want to talk about now. This is
a little bit of a spoiler alert in the summer
series I'm doing, but there is Jake Wagner news, so
(08:05):
I feel like I need to talk about it. So
we're going to talk about it in summer series, but
we're going to talk about it right now too. So
Jake Wagner obviously was one of the big people that
was involved in killing eight members of the Rodent family
in twenty sixteen. Now, he took a plea deal, he
(08:27):
pled guilty, and then he also testified against his brother
during his brother's trial. We're getting into all of that
in summer series. But he was given a sentence of
life in prison with the possibility of parole after thirty
two years because he's been cooperative with the authorities and
when they gave him that sentence, he was shocked by
(08:49):
that that he could possibly get out in thirty two
years because Jake's young, so he could be out in
no time. So the state has appealed that decision and
appealed that cent. So we are kind of in limbo
on that. I'll be sure to keep you guys updated,
and all of that is going to be coming up
on Summer Series. So if you want all of the
(09:09):
details on all the Jake Wagner of it all or
the Wagner family of it all, you can find it
in Summer Series. So we are going to go ahead
and get into today's episode. Okay, guys, we are diving
into a brand new unsolved case today. For this week's episode,
I am going to be taking you to the UK,
where I'm going to be telling you about the nineteen
(09:31):
ninety eight disappearance of a sixteen year old girl named
Carmel Fennick. Now, Carmel also did go by the name
Carmel Pendriy, so you might hear that as well as
I am telling you about her case. Investigators do fear
that Carmel was murdered. However, she has never been found,
and she remains a missing person to this day. For
(09:54):
my research for this case, I'm going to link all
of them below, but I also listen to a podcast
episode from The Missing about Carmel. During this episode, they
interviewed Carmel's mother, Dedra, and I got a lot of
my information from listening to this interview and listening to
the podcast. It was really well done and getting to
(10:15):
hear from Dedra really puts everything into perspective about Carmel,
her disappearance, everything. So I'm going to be sure to
link that podcast episode below as well in the show notes.
So if you want a little more information and you
want to hear from Dedre herself, please go listen to
that episode. It was really well done. Carmel was born
(10:35):
on July third of nineteen eighty one in London. She
was the third of five children that her mom, Dejra
had now Dedro was a single mom, and honestly, from
everything I've seen, it sounds to me like she was
a really, really good mom. She did everything she could
to provide for her kids, be supportive of her kids,
(10:56):
and she said that she had a really great network
of supporters that surrounded her her family and she always
did everything she could to try and protect her children.
So when Carmel was young, her and her family lived
in the same area that Deidra was raised in. Deidre
said it is a very middle class type of neighborhood,
that she had a great childhood and that they were
(11:17):
really happy there when Carmel was young. When Carmel turned five,
the family ended up being rehoused and ended up living
in North Peckham Estate in southeast London. Now, this area,
unfortunately was not the best area. It was a lot
different from where they had previously been living, and there
were a lot of thugs. There were a lot of
drug dealers, but Deidre said that they did what they could,
(11:41):
They made the best of it, and they still had
a great community that surrounded them, a friends and family.
Carmel was a very happy, go lucky girl. She loved
to make people laugh. As she got older, her transition
into secondary school, which for my assumption is kind of
like our inner mediate school or junior high school here
(12:02):
in the United States, it got tough for her. Carmel
was a tiny girl, standing at only five foot tall,
and she walked with a limp due to having one
leg shorter than the other. For this reason, unfortunately, Carmel
was bullied and for whatever reason, I don't know what
it is about kids that age. I feel like it's
nationwide that there's something about kids that age that just
(12:24):
make them horrible. So unfortunately, Carmel did deal with some
bullying and that I'm sure was pretty impactful on her,
given that she was a younger girl and she was
dealing with something like that and living in a new area,
and I'm sure it just all was really tough for her.
So two significant things happened to Carmel when she was
fourteen years old. So when she turned fourteen, her biological
(12:47):
father came back into her life and wanted to have
contact with her. He was in a new relationship, he
had a new son, and he expressed interest in wanting
to have a relationship with Carmel. Was very hesitant about
this because he had not been in Carmel's life since
she was about three years old. But he had said
that he wanted Carmel to come visit him, and Carmel
(13:10):
very much wanted to go because she had a new
little brother and I'm sure that she craved a father
figure in her life because he had not been in
her life since she was pretty young. So Deirdre ended
up letting Carmel go to visit him, and when she
got there, things did not go as planned. Now, Carmel,
(13:32):
although she was fourteen, she was very mature, she was
very independent. She smoked cigarettes and this was something that
I guess her father didn't really approve of, and he
didn't really know what he was getting himself into because
the last time he had saw his daughter was when
she was three, and she is now fourteen. She goes
(13:53):
and hangs out with friends and that is just how
her life is now she has grown up. And he
didn't like this at all. So she ended up leaving
the visit with her dad early and ended up going
back to her mom's house. And then we have another
event that transpired that ended up changing everything for Carmel.
(14:15):
When she was fourteen, she attended a birthday party for
a classmate and it was there that she met a
man who was forty at the time, and this man
would eventually become Carmel's boyfriend. Now, I'm not sure why
this man was at a birthday party for somebody who
was younger if he was a parent of another kid.
(14:36):
If he was just a general overall creepe that hung
out at teenager birthday parties, I'm not really sure the
context of where he came from and how he fits in,
but it's also important to note that in the nineties,
sixteen was considered a legal adult in London, whereas now
they have raised the aged eighteen, which is very similar
(14:56):
to the United States. So Carmel meets this man, and
I'm only stating my opinion on this that i think
Carmel really enjoyed getting the attention from this man because
she wasn't used to that kind of positive attention from
others besides people in her family. She was bullied and
(15:17):
teased a lot at school, and I'm sure this man
giving her any type of attention made her feel really,
really good. Despite the fact that I think this man
was likely a predator praying upon somebody who was young
because she was fourteen, so she technically wasn't of legal
age at this point in time. But I'm sure this
(15:38):
man lit up her world with everything that he was
telling her, and in her eyes, he hung the moon
and was the best thing ever. So this guy ended
up getting Carmel addicted to drugs, and before she knew it,
she was addicted to crack cocaine. And from there she
would be known to frequent homes in Brixton and Lewisham,
(16:01):
and these were areas that were known for criminal activity
and drug use. Now, unfortunately, from there, Carmel just kind
of spiraled. She was mixed up with this older man,
She was mixed up with drugs, she was hanging out
with unsavory people, and at one point in time she
was caught shoplifting. And there was just a lot going
(16:21):
on with Carmel. She was very young, she didn't really
have a lot of stability in her life outside of
her family home, and there was just a lot going on.
Carmel's mom, Dedra, at one point even said that she
begged the judge to lock Carmel up because she needed
to try and keep her safe. And everything that was
(16:43):
going on with Carmel's drug habit, her petty theft habit
to pay for all the drugs, was leading her down
a really really dark path. And as much as Dedra
loved her daughter and wanted to help her, her hands
were tied with a lot of what was going on,
and Dedre said that despite Carmel having a drug habit,
she didn't look like she was on drugs. She presented
(17:06):
herself in such a way and composed herself in such
a way. She was never rude, never mean, or anything
like that. And it's obvious to me, just as an
outsider looking in that Carmel was just a kid who
was struggling, trying to get by and unfortunately was introduced
to a not so great lifestyle by a much older man,
(17:26):
and then she was just in this vicious cycle that
she couldn't get out of. Now. Deirdre obviously knew that
her daughter had a problem and wanted to try to
protect her, so she ended up moving the family away
from there, so they ended up moving to Crawley in
East Sussex. But unfortunately, Carmel at this point would just
run away and return to the areas and the people
(17:49):
that were such poor influences on her. So there would
often be a lot of times that Carmel would go missing,
but she would always return home. Would see her out
and about, they would call Dedra and then Carmel ended
up returning home. So it was not at all out
of the ordinary for Carmel to run off due to
(18:12):
what she was dealing with, the drug habit, the friends,
all the things. She was a teenager. And although Dedra
knew that Carmel was struggling and had an addiction, she
said that anytime that Carmel would return home, she acted
very normal and like I said, she was never rude,
She was never disrespectful or anything like that with her family.
She just acted like a normal kid. It was almost
(18:34):
like she had two separate lives. There were often times
that Carmel would go missing. Deidra would go out in
the streets of London looking for her, and that was
just something that had become normal at this point in
their lives. But like I said, Carmel always returned home.
There was never a time that she was gone four
(18:54):
months or years or anything like that. And like I said,
she did really good job at keeping her two lives separate.
She literally had two lives now. There was an instance
where Carmel had called Dedra from a payphone and said
that the man that she was with had beat her,
(19:15):
and from there she ended up coming home and Deidre
thought for the first time in a long time that
Carmel was starting to realize the effects of her lifestyle
that she had gotten herself into. At this point, Dedra
was hopeful that Carmel was going to see the light
and she was going to be okay. She was safe,
she was sound, she was staying with her mom, living
(19:36):
at home, and she was off of drugs. Because she
started to look more like herself and act more like herself.
It was at this point that Dedra decided that she
was going to have some professional photos taken of her
and the kids. They were having a really good sale
on these photos and she thought it was the perfect
opportunity to take advantage of. So she did have those
(19:59):
photos take of herself and the kids, and Carmel had
asked and begged to have a photo taken by herself,
and despite this costing a little extra, Dedre decided to
let her do it. And the photo that I'm referencing
is going to be used as a cover photo for
this episode, so if you do want to see it,
(20:20):
you will see it as you're listening to this episode.
Carmel was such a cute girl, and I could tell
in that photo that she really looked like she was
getting her life on track. But unfortunately, these are the
last photos that Dedra has of Carmel because right after this,
Carmel would go missing, and this time she would not
(20:40):
return home. So following this, Carmel ended up taking off
again and Dedre received a phone call from a London
police officer, one that she had gotten close with over
the years because he always looked out for Carmel. So
this police officer said, Carmel got caught shoplifting again and
she has a court hearing, and the officer asked Dedra
(21:04):
if she could show up for the hearing, and she did.
She made it work and when she showed up, she
was shocked by Carmel's appearance. She had lost so much weight,
she was not looking well. And although at this point
Carmel tried to reassure her mom that she was fine,
Dedra knew different. Dedra knew her daughter, and this is
(21:26):
when she begged the court system to do something to
try and help Carmel, because Dedra had been doing everything
she could to try to navigate everything, but she was
at a loss and she had lost control of her child.
There was no way that she was going to be
able to help her daughter by herself. With everything that
had just transpired. She thought that she had finally gotten
(21:48):
through to Carmel, but it was obvious that she hadn't.
She was still mixed up with the people that were
involved in drugs and who knows what else was going on,
and she was really worried for her safety. She thought
that the best chance that Carmel would have was to
be locked up somewhere in a safe home where she
wasn't allowed to come and go as she pleased. So
(22:08):
with that, Carmel was placed into a children's home. But
this home was not a locked unit, so Carmel would
come and go as she wanted, but she did have
to tuck in by nine pm, and she did. She
followed the rules. She always came back by nine pm.
In one of the last conversations Carmel had with her mom,
Dedra Deirdre had expressed to her how much she loved
(22:30):
her and that is the reason that they went this
route to have her placed in a home, and Carmel
realized this and said that she knew that she was
actually going to get help this time, and she wasn't
upset with her mom. She was grateful to her mom
for doing everything she could to help her. Now, unfortunately,
(22:51):
this is the last conversation that Carmel and Dietra had.
A few days after that, Carmel had a conversation with
her sister where she told older sister that she thought
she might be pregnant and that she was going to
go to London on May twenty third to tell the
guy who she thought was the baby's father about the pregnancy.
So she did make it to London that day and
(23:14):
she ended up being picked up again by law enforcement
and was back in court now that day. The judge
ended up finding her all but one pound of the
money that she had on her and he let her
walk out of court that day, and she was last
seen with an unidentified man and from there Carmel went
missing and has not been seen or heard from since.
(23:36):
The date of when exactly she went missing is unknown,
but from what I've seen, it's between May twenty first
and May twenty third. Dedre knew that this was a
serious situation when it was June and nobody, not even
Carmel's sister, had heard from her. This was very out
of the ordinary for Carmel because no matter what, she
(23:58):
always would keep up with her family. She wouldn't go
more than a couple of days without phoning her sister,
and Deirdre just knew when her gut something was wrong. Unfortunately,
Deirdre had a really hard time getting law enforcement to
take her seriously. Because Deirdre had reported Carmel missing so
many times in the past, they didn't take this one
(24:19):
as a different type of scenario. They basically said, she'll
come back. She just ran away, She'll come back, she
always does. But this happened in nineteen ninety eight, and
all of these years later, Carmel remains missing and nobody
has seen or heard from her since that day in
nineteen ninety eight. And I have to reiterate, it's so
(24:40):
frustrating that just because somebody has a pattern of disappearing
and popping back up, that does not make a disappearance
any less important, of any less urgency, and it doesn't
mean that law enforcement shouldn't take it seriously. Now, law
enforcement were super aware of Carmel and all of her
(25:01):
transgressions all of the time she went missing, so they
did not take it seriously. There was a lack of
urgency in trying to find her and trying to figure
out what happened, because she would eventually always pop back
up and this was just her lifestyle. But Deirdre was
adamant that this time was different and there was something
majorly wrong. And she was right, because, like I said,
(25:25):
Carmel is still missing, and unfortunately, whatever happened to her,
whoever harmed her, they got away with it because they
knew that they could. Now, I'm not really sure if
the man that Carmel originally met at the birthday party
that got her started on drugs and everything is the
same man that later abused her and is the same
(25:48):
man that she was last seen with. Because she was
last seen with this man at the courthouse, I don't
know if this is the same person. I also think
Carmel was always pretty hesitant to say that this man
was her boyfriend, but he obviously was involved with her
in some way, shape or form, and he led her
down a really, really, really dark path. And I think
(26:11):
that this person likely has preyed upon other young individuals
and probably just bounces from person to person and victimizes
people every chance he gets. Again, that is just my opinion.
Now I'm not fully sure on this, but I don't
even believe that the man that Carmel was last seen
(26:32):
with was even thoroughly questioned as to what he knows,
Deidre said quote he said he hardly knew Mike Carmel
and just felt sorry for her. But she was often
found at his house, So I think there's more to
it end quote. And there has to be more to
it because this man obviously had some connection to her.
(26:54):
She trusted him obviously if she was at his house.
I have major questions for this man because I feel
like he might have the missing puzzle piece to what
happened to Carmel. But for whatever reason, he was not
really thoroughly questioned. So there has to be more going
on here. There has to be more to it. I
(27:16):
don't know what the answer is, but Carmel is still missing. Now.
There is an age progress photo of Carmel that I'm
going to be sharing on my Instagram and Facebook pages,
so be sure to check that out. She would be
forty four years old today if she is still alive
and well and out there. She is described as five
(27:37):
foot to five one, having black or brown shoulder length hair,
brown eyes. She has a scar on the center of
her forehead, and she has a very slim build. Like
I said, I'm going to be sharing photos of her
on my Instagram and Facebook pages, as well as the
age progressed photo. Somebody out there knows something about what
(27:58):
happened to Carmel, whether it's the person that had something
to do with her disappearance, whether it's somebody that has
a little piece of information that they don't realize they
have a piece of information, whether it's somebody that was
in a pub one night and somebody said something about
Carmel and they haven't quite pieced it together yet. Loyalties
(28:21):
change and it is time to come forward. It has
been a long time. This girl went missing in nineteen
ninety eight, and I think it's about time that her
family got some closure as to what happened to her.
And she obviously hasn't come back, so something is majorly wrong.
(28:41):
If anybody has any information, they are encouraged to get
in touch or call crime Stoppers at eight hundred five
fix five one one one, and if you google Carmel Fennik,
there is a lot of resources and information ways to
contact law enforce if you believe you have something that
(29:02):
might be helpful to their investigation. Now, earlier I talked
about the police officer that had talked with Dedra and
was very familiar with Carmel, kind of looked out for
her and would always call Dedra when he had picked
her up or she was supposed to go to court.
Dedra still keeps up with him. He left London because
(29:25):
he saw some of the things that were going on
in the area that Carmel was living and knew that
it wasn't going to be an ideal place to raise
his family, so he ended up leaving. But he now
has kids, he's married, and he still keeps up with Dedra.
And he was one person that Deirdre said was such
(29:46):
a good person. He always looked out for Carmel. He
was always willing to help her and do whatever he
could to kind of support her in this journey. And
I think that's really a cool part of this story
is that they still do have a relationship, They still
chat and despite the department overall not really helping Dedra,
(30:07):
this one man was a shining light and it just
goes to show you that there are good people out there,
people who really go above and beyond in their job.
And I think the fact that he still does communicate
with Dedra really shows that he really cares. And I
think that's admirable. So I did want to include that
because I think that's a nice little part of the story.
(30:28):
Despite there being so many unanswered questions about what happened
to Carmel, it's nice to know that there was someone
that really always did have her back on the other side,
her other life, because this girl really did have two
separate lives and they often did intersect, but she did
a really good job at keeping them separate. And she
(30:49):
had her home life and then she had her social life,
which unfortunately took a drastic turn, and for that reason,
she is missing today. So be sure to check out
my Instagram and Facebook pages. If you aren't following me
over there, please do. Also, if you're listening on Apple
or Spotify, please leave me a five star review. I
(31:09):
would really really appreciate it. It just helps push the
podcast out to more listeners, more people that are consuming
true crime content. And at the end of the day,
my mission with this podcast is just to get these
episodes on as many eyes and ears as possible, because
that is how we're going to draw attention to these
lesser known, unsolved cases. And that is my mission, that
(31:31):
is important, that is why I do what I do so.
Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope you
have a fantastic weekend and I will see you next
week for a brand new unsolved case. Have a good
one bye,
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