July 20, 2025 • 46 mins
In part eight of our summer series 2025 we get into a few more witnesses in the trial of George Wagner IV and we discuss wire taps and what will and won’t be allowed into the trial. We also hear some of the first wire tap conversations between Jake and his then wife Beth Ann Wagner.
Sources for episode:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585385451
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585405687
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585580884
https://www.youtube.com/live/P6jyF_A0Xgs?si=LiJmNF5v5BTI5oDc
Sources for episode:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585385451
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585405687
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pretty-lies-and-alibis/id1519114534?i=1000585580884
https://www.youtube.com/live/P6jyF_A0Xgs?si=LiJmNF5v5BTI5oDc
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Summer Series twenty twenty five The Roden Family Murders,
also known as the Pike County Massacre. We're going to
be discussing the murders of Dana Roden, Christopher Roden Senior,
Kenneth Roden, Gary Roden, Frankie Rodin, Hannah Hazel Gilly, Hannah Rodin,
and Christopher Roden Junior. Let's go ahead and dive right
(00:22):
into Summer Series twenty twenty five. Okay, guys, we are
jumping in to part eight of the Pike County Massacre
Roden Family Murders. I have to tell you the morning
that I'm recording this, last night, I dreamt about nothing
other than the Roden family, which means that I am really, really,
(00:43):
really invested in this case because literally that's what I
dreamt about last night. So with all of that being said,
I woke up this morning and kept up my research
getting the Summer series put together for you guys, and
we are getting right back into it. So we are
still in the midst of all the trial happenings, and
(01:05):
we're going through all of the witnesses in George Wagner
the forced trial. He is on trial for eight murders
of the Road and family, along with Hannah Hazel Gilly.
We just finished up the testimony from George's mom, Angela Wagner,
and our next witness is a woman named Katie Wagner
who is the niece of Billy Wagner. Now, she wasn't
(01:25):
too far off from Jake and George Wagner in age,
so they all kind of grew up together. But she
is the one that received the truck from Billy Wagner
after the homicides. Now, she did say that she really
was only around the Wagner family on holidays, and although
they were family, she had never been to the Peterson
(01:46):
Road home. But she said she received the truck shortly
after the murders. So this is kind of what happened.
Billy brought the truck over, and she didn't really think
much of it because she had previously had a conversation
with Billy about wanting to get a truck, and then
he showed up with one and said that he was
going to give it to her. Now, this particular day
(02:07):
was kind of shortly after the murders, and he said
that he couldn't stay for long because he had to
go on a trip with Chris Senior, who he had
killed shortly before this whole interaction. This was about thirty
hours after the murders occurred. She then later that day
went to go get tags for the truck and noticed
that there were no floor mats in the truck, which
(02:28):
she thought was weird but really didn't think anything of it.
Again hindsight is twenty twenty, and she said the truck
was pretty cleaned out and it looked to be in
pretty good shape now. Later, when she learned that Billy
Wagner and his family were targets of the BCI investigation,
BCI ended up coming over to her house and asked
(02:49):
her about the truck and asked her for the keys
of it, which very much gave her an uneasy feeling,
thinking that maybe Billy and his family were involved in
the road and family murders. Once everything transpired and Jake
Wagner ended up confessing, she said it felt like she
had been punched in the stomach. And I think that
this is very interesting that basically he gifted this truck
(03:12):
after they committed this eight person homicide in the truck
to a family member, Like, what were they thinking about?
Were they trying to conceal evidence, get rid of evidence,
put it on somebody else. I don't really know the
mind frame and the mindset of Billy Wagner what it was,
but gifting this truck to Katie is just wild behavior
(03:35):
in my opinion. Our next witness up is a man
named Andrew Carson, who was a friend of Jake Wagner's,
and he actually talked to him the morning following the murders.
Andrew said that his wife had contacted him and said
there was murders on Union Hill Road and there potentially
might be an active shooter still out there, so he
(03:56):
had called Jake to see if Jake had heard anything,
and Jake proceed to tell him essentially the same story
his wife had told him. However, when Andrew told Jake
that all of the individuals that were supposed victims were
all dead, Andrew said that Jake freaked out. And I
don't know if this was a genuine, like, oh my god,
what did we do type of moment, or if Jake
(04:18):
was just kind of playing into it and acting because
he knew that all of Hannah's family pretty much lived
on Union Hill Road. I mean, these trailers were in
very close proximity to each other. Some of them you
could literally throw a stone and hit the other trailer.
The distance between Frankie's trailer and Chris Senior's trailer extremely
extremely close. So I don't know if Jake was just
(04:39):
playing it up to try to play the part, or
if maybe he really officially realized, oh my god, what
did we do and it just hit in that moment.
I don't really know. The next witness was a man
who was Jake and George's boss when they lived in Alaska.
He worked at Buddy's garage, and he said that Jake
was a little less focused and was a more reliable
(05:01):
employee overall. He did, however, say that at one point
in time he saw Jake looking up the road and
family murders on his phone. On Facebook, he was asked
to rate George and Jake on a scale of one
to five as far as how good of employees they were,
and he rated Jake a one point five and he
rated George a three, which again is interesting. Next witness
(05:25):
is a man named Kelly, who was the pastor of
the church that the Wagners attended in Ohio and Alaska. Now,
this is somebody that knew the Wagner family for a
long time. They first started going to his church in
two thousand and two as a family. So Kelly actually
flew in from Alaska to officiate George Wagner the Fourth's
wedding to Tabitha, which is interesting. It kind of establishes
(05:48):
that he had a pretty close relationship with the Wagner family.
And he even says that Billy had confided in him
that he had a really rough upbringing and he was
very much trying to raise his kids differently than he
was raised and wanted to get them on a good path. However,
this was simultaneously as he was teaching them to steal
(06:09):
and set fire for insurance money. So that's a little
contradictory if you ask me, But to each his own. Now,
interesting little tidbit. This pastor was also an electrician and
he is the one that helped wire the house that
the Wagner family owned before the Peterson Rode Home, and
that was the home that they essentially had burned down
(06:31):
for insurance money. But at the time, the pastor was
told that the house burned down due to a wiring issue.
So again, these people stop at nothing to throw people
that trust and love them under the bus. They always
want to blame other people for their horrific actions. They
set this house on fire for the insurance payout, and
(06:53):
then they brought it back around and said, oh, it
was a wiring issue and you wired our house, so
it was all your fault. What is wrong with you?
They are just so selfish and they just don't act normal.
I don't understand it. So this pastor liked the Wagner
family even so much that he let his son go
to the Wagner family home and spend the night. And
(07:13):
he goes on to testify that if he had been
aware of any type of unsavory activities that the Wagners
were up to, the theft, the arson, all of their wrongdoings,
he never would have let a son go there. So
I think this really illustrates that even though they were
relatively close, he really had no idea what was going
on behind the closed doors of the Wagner family home.
(07:36):
And I think this is just a testament to how
the Wagner family operated and how they were able to
fly under the radar for so long, because this is
somebody that knew them very well. They went to this
Man's church. They were pretty close to him. It sounds
like Billy had confided in him on multiple different occasions,
(07:56):
and still he had no idea what was really going on.
Next up we hear from Caleb, who is Kelly's son
and would also go on to become a pastor of
the church as well. He said he met Jake and
George when they were kids, and they got along really well.
They would go hunt, they would fish, they would four wheel,
and they would do all the typical type of kid
(08:17):
activities together. He said that he moved to Alaska when
he was fourteen, and he kind of semi kept in
touch with George and Jake, and at one point when
he was sixteen, George and Jake and the Wagner family
came to Alaska to visit. Caleb said that in twenty
fifteen he got a message from Jake on Facebook messenger
(08:37):
and it was essentially asking him if there were any
women's groups with the church up in Alaska that Hannah
could attend. And Caleb thought that this was a really
odd question, so he didn't respond. So again, this is
another really interesting little testimony bit of information to show
you that Jake Wagner thought that Hannah was essentially misguided
(09:00):
and needed to go to Alaska to kind of straighten
her out. He is just the actual worst. So anyways,
Caleb says that in twenty seventeen, Jake had reached out
and contacted him and said that they were coming back
to Alaska and asked if they wanted to get dinner,
and Jake and George ended up going over to Caleb
(09:22):
and his wife's home for dinner. Now keep in mind,
this was after the murders, and Caleb said that Alaska
was pretty far away from everything else, so he didn't
really keep up with what was going on back in Ohio.
But he did hear that Hannah may Roden had passed away. However,
he didn't know the circumstances of any of it, so
(09:42):
he brought it up a dinner, just kind of catching
up with everyone, and that is when Jake told him
about the Rodin family murders, which is interesting dinner topic conversation.
So shortly after this is when the Wagner family officially
moved to Alaska, so it's believed that they went there
in order to kind of scout it out to see
(10:02):
if that would be a good place for them. To move. Now,
they claim they didn't move there because of the BCI's investigation,
but they a thousand percent moved there because of the
BCI's investigation, and this trip was really about scouting it
out to see if it would be a good place
for them to live. So shortly after that they moved there,
and they would end up attending the church that Caleb
(10:26):
was the pastor at. He said that Jake Wagner started
coming to church more frequently, especially when he started dating
Beth Ann, And he said he really didn't know beth
And very well. But Jake had talked to Caleb about
marrying Beth Anne, and he tried to tell him it
might be too soon, and all of the other stuff
was going on at the time with the Wagner family investigation,
(10:48):
and Caleb thought, you might want to let all of
this other stuff settle and get finalized and have resolution
in that before you look at getting married. So at
one point in time came ended up being contacted by
BCI agents about the Wagner family and they basically told
him that he needed to stay away from them because
(11:08):
they were dangerous. And he didn't really know how to
feel about this, but given that the Wagner family were
regularly attending church there. He felt that he needed to
tell the church officials what was going on what he
was told by the BCI, because he said, he very
much respects law enforcement and thinks that they wouldn't have
said something like that if it weren't true. He said,
(11:29):
when everything came out officially and Jake Wagner confessed and
took a plead deal, he was absolutely shocked by everything
and had no idea that Jake had the capability of
doing such a horrific thing. Same goes for his family,
and he said that the way Jake acted when he
was living in Alaska was no different than the way
he acted when they were kids. So the fact that
(11:50):
he was able to complete this horrifically horrible act and
then go on and just pretend like everything was the same,
nothing had changed, was just very shocking to him. And honestly,
I can't even imagine having somebody as a childhood friend,
somebody that I've grown up with, and then we become,
you know, friends in our adult years, they end up
(12:10):
living again in the same state again, end up attending
church together. I would also be shocked by this whole thing.
That this individual who have known pretty much since I
was a little kid, was capable of doing this and
also just carrying on as normal. Next up, we have
Agent Ryan Scheider and he is back up on the stand.
(12:33):
He talks about the reconstruction he did of the platform
for the truck bed that Jake and George hid underneath
when they first went to Chris Senior's home. So he
essentially recreated this whole platform and had two people volunteer
to get inside and lay down as Jake Wagner said
that Jake and George did that night, and they very
(12:54):
much went about choosing two people that were taller and
a little bigger than Jake and George, more so just
to prove that they could fit inside and lay down
comfortably without any issues. The recreation of this whole thing
was super necessary, and I think they did a great
job in doing this. He then talks about the bugging
of the properties. Originally, the Wagner family had been interested
(13:16):
in purchasing a home in Missouri, and they were able
to contact the people in Missouri to potentially get access
to the home so that way they could wire it,
but the sale never ended up going through, so that
was kind of scrubbed. They also attempted to do the
listening devices in the Alaska house as well, but the
Wagners were in and out of there so quickly that
(13:36):
they were never able to finish the project. So once
they got back to Ohio and Jake and George got
jobs at the Truck and Company, they were able to
contact this company and they were cooperative and agreeable to
letting the BCI agents wire the trucks that Jake and
George were going to be using. So they officially started
monitoring conversations of the Wagner family in May of twenty eighteen.
(14:00):
So what they do from there is really really interesting.
They want to kind of stimulate conversations between the Wagners
now because they have the recording devices on them and
they're able to kind of listen to what's going on
and their messages back and forth, so they kind of
start planting things. Ryan talks about how he had texted
(14:21):
George and asked him if he could talk with him.
He attached a picture of Jake holding a gun and
said he wanted to talk to him about the photo.
He had also asked Rita and Angela to provide handwriting samples,
and there was also some type of message boards that
I guess were talking about the murders and Angela was
monitoring them actively and they knew that, so Ryan created
(14:44):
an account on there and was kind of posting things
here and there just to keep them talking about stuff,
because if you remember, after the homicides occurred, they vowed
as a family to not talk about the murders. So obviously,
with this increase BCI involvement, they knew that they were
(15:04):
kind of onto them, but they didn't know that they
were listening. But they wanted to create a scenario in
which they were forced to talk about it because if
Agent Scheider is sending text messages to George, you know
George is going to say something to Jake about that.
This is the same thing that transpired in the Dan
Markell case when they instigated the bump with Donna, Charlie
(15:26):
and Katie. All of that kind of went down the
way it did, and that is what led to them
being able to get their arrest warrants and get convictions
in that case. Because of that bump, they simulated a
situation where they were essentially forced to talk about it,
and they were able to get it all caught on audio.
(15:47):
So next to defense and prosecution very much try to
argue about bringing in the recordings of these different wire taps.
Some of them are longer, some are shorter, and they
go back and forth about these wire taps coming in
and some the judge allows and some the judge doesn't allow.
There was even some threats made to Agent Ryan during
(16:08):
these wire taps that even made him have to have
security at his home because they were threatening his life.
So we are going to get into the wire taps.
It is very, very apparent from these wire taps that
George Wagner the fourth was so paranoid about things, things
that weren't even a thing. Now. There was a conversation
where he spoke about Sophia and beth Ann and how
(16:29):
basically he thought that beth Ann was going to take
Sophia and his son Bulvine and sell them into the
sex trade. And I think that it's important to go
over this type of stuff because this is the same
type of conversation that was going on with Sophia and
Hannah Mae Rodin. Allegedly there was talk about them being
worried about her being sexually molested, and that is the
(16:52):
whole reason that they carried out the murder so Jake
could get sole custody because they were worried about Sophia's safety.
That is very much how they put things. And then
the next woman that Jake finds in Alaska, beth Ann.
It's the exact same song and dance, and I just
don't believe that either of these scenarios are true, and
(17:12):
I truly think it's something the Wagners created in their
own heads to justify their really really shitty behavior. Again,
that is just my opinion, but it just seems way
too coincidental that all of this stuff is transpiring with
every relationship that they have, Tabitha, Hannah may Rhaden, beth An.
It's just not possible that these people have such bad
(17:36):
luck with women. I think they're the common denominator here
and not the women. Again, just my opinion, and I
wholeheartedly think that if beth Ann wasn't able to get
away from them, that she fully would have been their
next victim. Then there is talks about how beth Ann
was allegedly poisoning them, and again that's the exact same
(17:57):
scenario that they said about Tabitha. So it is literally
a wash, rinse, and repeat of everything they've already gone through,
just this time it's with beth Ann instead of with Tabitha.
So that ends day thirty eight. There's still a lot
of back and forth about the wire taps, what will
be let in, what won't be There's a lot of
arguing between the prosecution and the defense. Ultimately it's up
(18:20):
to the judge with what's allowed in and what's not.
So we are now going to get into date thirty nine,
which is the day that we actually get to hear
the wire taps. So we are going to get into
all of that now, and I'm going to play recordings
of the stuff for you guys, because I think it's
really interesting to hear them actually talking. Sometimes it's hard
(18:42):
to understand what they're saying. Sometimes it's jarbled and they
mumble and all of that, but they're all really interesting
and very insightful conversations if you ask me so. Pretty much,
the rest of this episode is going to be recording heavy.
I might interject every so often and explain something, but
(19:03):
we're going to just be hearing all of these wire
taps from here on forward. I do want to give
credit to WCPO nine on YouTube for these audio recordings,
that is where I am getting them from. They are
publicly available on the internet. This whole trial was streamed
and recorded, so all of that information is all over YouTube.
(19:27):
If you want to go down the rabbit hole like
I did and listen to everything, watch every witness give
their testimony, listen to all of these recordings. There is
a lot going on here. So, like I said, these
wire taps include the trucks that Jake and George used
for work, and also Jake, George, Angela, and Billy Wagner's
(19:49):
cell phones, and then there was a couple other cell
phones that they ended up getting and those as well.
So we have phone calls between all of the Wagner
family members that we're recorded. The first one we're gonna
hear is a conversation between Jake and beth Anne and
it is about Angela. I'm going to just start playing
(20:11):
the recording. I am going to warn you in the
very beginning it is really hard to hear what beth
is saying to Jake, but things do get a little
more clear as they go, But essentially it is beth
Ann and Jake talking about Angela and you're just going
to be able to hear kind of the progression of
(20:31):
things from there. So we are going to play that, now.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Would you bet?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You check out? Worry what I can't.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I'm gonna hope on my hearing because I'm in the
back room and I court.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Your mom telling you that you should back me again?
Are more more I can't? I said, and I kind
(21:14):
of the day.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
M hm hm, well all of them my.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Okay whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And stupid than that.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
I set exactly saying that I should still look around
the stuff like it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Was one along riding. Uh are you sure.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
That okay?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Like, are you just going to take what offic said
dropped the stud jack because apparently.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
They said something else that wasn't what you said before,
like this first gas head it's.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I didn't hear any of that. You came backing out.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I can't hear it out. I can't. I did m
and AM has said that's what you did know if
I the dead and drop it at that dropped apparently
(22:57):
you go back over CERFCT you did, you didn't the
idiot give it back?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And more don't.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Look like that and what not? Don't back you get
the strict worry.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Yok Nope, what.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Mh bo bly what.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And not really could bang a vocal with the kind
of good vision.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Kind of vision guys. I do want to interject here
there are a lot of dead zones in this phone call,
because honestly, Jake doesn't know what to say to Bethanne
about this whole situation. So I think a lot of
it is like him pausing trying to figure out, like
what am I supposed to say to her? Because essentially
(24:46):
this conversation was Jake and Angela having a conversation about
beth Anne and her relationship with Sophia and how Angela
basically told Jake you shouldn't stop suspecting her. And I
can't even imagine what Bethane was thinking during this entire
conversation and this entire experience in her life. I can't
(25:08):
imagine going through this, especially knowing that Hannah may Rodin
had also been previously killed and she was in the
same place that Bethane was in. It's just wild even
trying to fathom what that must feel like. So we're
going to get back into the conversation now. There, like
I said, are a lot of dead zones where it
(25:30):
is like minutes of silence. I'm trying to do my
best to cut those out, but anytime I do cut
them out, I have to rewind and make sure that
I'm not missing any important parts of the conversation. So
just bear with me during this conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
H I don't look back.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Job.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's it's really really difficult. So that will so much.
Who thinks that I'm worse than a murderer, and she
is so willing to believe.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
It, like something to believe.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That I'm worse than a murderer. Mhm.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
All relationships they're going by trust that disloy, like the truck, and.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
It's kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
The trust that eating away on Michael.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Think, I don't know that I know why eat like
that before and the dudet got.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I don't know how we having fault.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh yeah, okay, I'm goy.
Speaker 8 (28:02):
And so it is obvious that this whole thing is
really eating away at Bethan.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
She says it makes her not even want to exist.
And I can't imagine feeling like that being put into
this type of situation where you have this family who
essentially has taken you in again under their wing. Trying
to control her and then putting these accusations on her
to make her feel this way. It is a vicious cycle,
(28:40):
and we're going to get more into it. But I
truly think that Angela Wagner is the mastermind behind all
of this, and we're going to get into wiretaps with
her and Jake talking about Bethan and it's all going
to kind of culminate and come full circle. But this
poor girl was literally one of their other victims. And
(29:02):
like I said, had they not been arrested, had she
not gotten out, who knows what would have happened to her.
So that is essentially the extent of the conversation between
Jake and beth Anne. They again were talking about a
conversation that Bethand overheard him having with his mom, Angela
Wagner aka, in my opinion, the puppet master. So that
(29:25):
was that conversation. There was a lot of silence in there.
There was an occasional thing that I clipped out just
because of the timing of it, but you got all
the necessary and pertinent information that you really needed to
in that clip. The next conversation we hear is going
to be another conversation between Jake and Bethanne. And also
(29:48):
keep in mind they were married at this time. They
were legally a married couple at the time that all
of this is transpiring. And this call occurred on May
thirtieth of twenty eighteen, and in the call they are
discussing the Wagner family dynamics. So buckle up.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I heard that.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
You love me, don't matter what she thinks about me,
and she let me what you think about me?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah, I can say that, but I am good with him.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think on the weekend beat day.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I agree, you pig that out say that, but I
look a herd.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I dig out of the week and be to day
out of the week.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
But that actually matter? Oh well that actually think you
should turn out like her guard Now say you know,
I just cant take a chain where she could be
y over night writing, couldn't.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I couldn't get the topic, her get the topic after.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Pretty much.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Stay away from the can the whole time go on
in the end? How many where she could out her
and if I could, if I have anything to do
(31:47):
with them, picture out and.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Go back to me because h becoming every saying on
the line.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
But I.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Okay, so I've.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Told you because we keeps trying.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
To clothe me in the back.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
If I wanted to not be paying a patient percent
of the time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And if she needed to see an e quote unlock
when I work or.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
More than one minute, your mom will say that as
a possible time when I could have been a bell,
I'm WORTU really constantly on edge and constantly watching and
(33:09):
constantly having to make sure that I don't touch the
kids or that they don't follow me in the room
or follow me into the house when your mom's not in.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
There or anything like that. And she's only and she's
constantly watching the same way like kind of to make
sure that they're not following me and make sure that
we're all along together.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
And it is extremely stridful for everybody can and of
course the kids don't understand why they can't wait with
me until they keep saying.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Like, hey, anybody like that like that?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Then I can't do it because.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yeah, okay, it's really pretty would.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Make because like I said, there was a.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Time when.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I want to being alone in the house and along
in the road with.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Five of them.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
That would be thinking a potential time where I could
have been.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Abasing one of the.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Kids I'll try other words, doesn't know.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I don't know. I need the way to get it.
But it's doing you don't want what good?
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I'm sure, but I can't that. That's like let's putting
out relationship no walk and you do amatic world come back?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
M m. I practically how it is anyway? Where is
the that right now? That's practically how it is anyway?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Why is it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Pretty much on hold? As did?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Okay, okay, hopefully they like remain here.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Ah yeah. But after a year after that was still
you're still into it.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It's not going to accept me what your mom does? Yeah,
you see that right? A little for mom do that
around me?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
She'd beyond that sum me h yeah, I mean I
could try and talk to mom about saying, but honestly,
are that good? It may all day the particular.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Really what they come down that.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Said, I try talking mom about but how do you
feel about it?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
That?
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Whatnot?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
But when it comes back down to it, it'd be
better if he talk mom about alvid, how if.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
About knowed whatnot?
Speaker 3 (37:05):
M huh. They wouldn't care. That doesn't matter at her.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
See the home to care.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
A lot of how comeing affected me. That doesn't matter
to her. The only thing that matters to her is
the kids. And you died, so she didn't care that
what alcoming affected me, because I mean, and think about it,
if you had a snake in your house and she'd
(37:43):
take me up a snake, doesn't thinking how you wouldn't
care one bet how the how shutting your swinging.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Out the think like they don't care.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And that's the way it is. So it doesn't matter
how something like me.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Anyone but you, Okay. So after beth Anne makes that comment,
there's a long pause of just pure and utter silence,
and about a minute in beth Ann lets out a
exasperated side just like she is done with this conversation.
(38:20):
She's done with Jake and Angela pulling the strings and
trying to make her out to be the bad guy
when she is not the bad guy. She literally did nothing.
And it's just so interesting the dynamics here, And we're
going to get into the wire taps between Angela and
Jake next and that is going to be an even
(38:42):
wilder ride. Get ready to see Angela Wagner in action.
It's going to be so interesting. We're going to finish
out this wire tap between beth Ann and Jake, and
then we're going to get into the rest.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Different I I longed that the ussion is player that's
gonna realize that there's pretty much no way discluding that
was faking either. So it's kind of yah there mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
I obviously I get proved the phone this point on
that I I am not doing that, ah, but there's
no where to go.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
But I did not did that and go no matter
what happened that I shouldn't want to do me that.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
H h don't know. I'm very numb out o mhm mhmm.
(40:50):
Other than that, what uh did you know all the
whole first how I try to come.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
I didn't spend the whole first week, I said, in
the first week, you did because she brought it up,
she said, but sometimes go.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Ah like sleep attending this week, and so you might.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Think she she wanted she might have seen something during
that time, like you might have wat you live to sleep.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
And then she was talking about the shirt off comment
that Sophie had made in the.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Living room, and so I did tell her that during
the first week we're living here, you had sometime downe
that joy of thing. After Sophie was asleep, like looking
at my shirt.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Work one came to m hm, do something more in here.
I didn't say that it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Was all week long.
Speaker 7 (42:15):
I said that in the.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
First week that it happened that given I wanted to
do think here actress the week that everyone with.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
An a first week me too, that that was not
something that should be done.
Speaker 7 (42:37):
That happened.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Don't you remember that?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Okay, so what's the big thing I was in that?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Why that I did not right that I was Ah,
she had said.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
H.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He said, I want every night that the person one person.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
Whatever happened, And yes, what's yet or not that you
knew was inaccurate because there.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Was a line within the first week.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I didn't pay every single line.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's because that was not what I intended to communicate.
And anyway, the only thing I'm going to to communicate
during the birth week.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
The good.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I don't know about you, guys, but I am cringing
internally listening to this conversation. Jake saying it's not a
big deal after he's literally grilling her on what she
said to his mom about their sex life is freaking weird. Okay,
there is no getting around it. It's bizarre. It's weird.
(44:41):
Why is he questioning what she told Angela? And why
is Angela talking to Jake about it? Like this is
all just such a weird family dynamic they have going
on here and I cannot rationalize what is wrong with
these people. This conversation is almost over, so we are
going to get back to it and get wrapped up.
I promise we are coming to the end soon.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And Germany.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Where not a Germany?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Okay, So that is the conversation. She ends up saying
she feels like she lives in Nazi Germany and Jake
Wagner doesn't know where that is or apparently anything about
the history of our world. But that is how we're
going to end episode eight. Episode nine is going to
be a doozy because we get to hear the wire
(45:30):
task between Angela and Jake, and what I tell you,
it is some wild backwoods hillbilly stuff. It is some
wild backwoods hillbly stuff, like you can literally hear Banjo's
playing in the background during some of these conversations. Not really,
but really it.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Is a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So we are going to call that good for episode
eight of Summer series. We are going to pick up
next week with continued wire taps, We're going to get
through them, slowly but surely, and and I will see
you guys back here next week for Part nine. See
you then, bye,
Welcome to Summer Series twenty twenty five The Roden Family Murders,
also known as the Pike County Massacre. We're going to
be discussing the murders of Dana Roden, Christopher Roden Senior,
Kenneth Roden, Gary Roden, Frankie Rodin, Hannah Hazel Gilly, Hannah Rodin,
and Christopher Roden Junior. Let's go ahead and dive right
(00:22):
into Summer Series twenty twenty five. Okay, guys, we are
jumping in to part eight of the Pike County Massacre
Roden Family Murders. I have to tell you the morning
that I'm recording this, last night, I dreamt about nothing
other than the Roden family, which means that I am really, really,
(00:43):
really invested in this case because literally that's what I
dreamt about last night. So with all of that being said,
I woke up this morning and kept up my research
getting the Summer series put together for you guys, and
we are getting right back into it. So we are
still in the midst of all the trial happenings, and
(01:05):
we're going through all of the witnesses in George Wagner
the forced trial. He is on trial for eight murders
of the Road and family, along with Hannah Hazel Gilly.
We just finished up the testimony from George's mom, Angela Wagner,
and our next witness is a woman named Katie Wagner
who is the niece of Billy Wagner. Now, she wasn't
(01:25):
too far off from Jake and George Wagner in age,
so they all kind of grew up together. But she
is the one that received the truck from Billy Wagner
after the homicides. Now, she did say that she really
was only around the Wagner family on holidays, and although
they were family, she had never been to the Peterson
(01:46):
Road home. But she said she received the truck shortly
after the murders. So this is kind of what happened.
Billy brought the truck over, and she didn't really think
much of it because she had previously had a conversation
with Billy about wanting to get a truck, and then
he showed up with one and said that he was
going to give it to her. Now, this particular day
(02:07):
was kind of shortly after the murders, and he said
that he couldn't stay for long because he had to
go on a trip with Chris Senior, who he had
killed shortly before this whole interaction. This was about thirty
hours after the murders occurred. She then later that day
went to go get tags for the truck and noticed
that there were no floor mats in the truck, which
(02:28):
she thought was weird but really didn't think anything of it.
Again hindsight is twenty twenty, and she said the truck
was pretty cleaned out and it looked to be in
pretty good shape now. Later, when she learned that Billy
Wagner and his family were targets of the BCI investigation,
BCI ended up coming over to her house and asked
(02:49):
her about the truck and asked her for the keys
of it, which very much gave her an uneasy feeling,
thinking that maybe Billy and his family were involved in
the road and family murders. Once everything transpired and Jake
Wagner ended up confessing, she said it felt like she
had been punched in the stomach. And I think that
this is very interesting that basically he gifted this truck
(03:12):
after they committed this eight person homicide in the truck
to a family member, Like, what were they thinking about?
Were they trying to conceal evidence, get rid of evidence,
put it on somebody else. I don't really know the
mind frame and the mindset of Billy Wagner what it was,
but gifting this truck to Katie is just wild behavior
(03:35):
in my opinion. Our next witness up is a man
named Andrew Carson, who was a friend of Jake Wagner's,
and he actually talked to him the morning following the murders.
Andrew said that his wife had contacted him and said
there was murders on Union Hill Road and there potentially
might be an active shooter still out there, so he
(03:56):
had called Jake to see if Jake had heard anything,
and Jake proceed to tell him essentially the same story
his wife had told him. However, when Andrew told Jake
that all of the individuals that were supposed victims were
all dead, Andrew said that Jake freaked out. And I
don't know if this was a genuine, like, oh my god,
what did we do type of moment, or if Jake
(04:18):
was just kind of playing into it and acting because
he knew that all of Hannah's family pretty much lived
on Union Hill Road. I mean, these trailers were in
very close proximity to each other. Some of them you
could literally throw a stone and hit the other trailer.
The distance between Frankie's trailer and Chris Senior's trailer extremely
extremely close. So I don't know if Jake was just
(04:39):
playing it up to try to play the part, or
if maybe he really officially realized, oh my god, what
did we do and it just hit in that moment.
I don't really know. The next witness was a man
who was Jake and George's boss when they lived in Alaska.
He worked at Buddy's garage, and he said that Jake
was a little less focused and was a more reliable
(05:01):
employee overall. He did, however, say that at one point
in time he saw Jake looking up the road and
family murders on his phone. On Facebook, he was asked
to rate George and Jake on a scale of one
to five as far as how good of employees they were,
and he rated Jake a one point five and he
rated George a three, which again is interesting. Next witness
(05:25):
is a man named Kelly, who was the pastor of
the church that the Wagners attended in Ohio and Alaska. Now,
this is somebody that knew the Wagner family for a
long time. They first started going to his church in
two thousand and two as a family. So Kelly actually
flew in from Alaska to officiate George Wagner the Fourth's
wedding to Tabitha, which is interesting. It kind of establishes
(05:48):
that he had a pretty close relationship with the Wagner family.
And he even says that Billy had confided in him
that he had a really rough upbringing and he was
very much trying to raise his kids differently than he
was raised and wanted to get them on a good path. However,
this was simultaneously as he was teaching them to steal
(06:09):
and set fire for insurance money. So that's a little
contradictory if you ask me, But to each his own. Now,
interesting little tidbit. This pastor was also an electrician and
he is the one that helped wire the house that
the Wagner family owned before the Peterson Rode Home, and
that was the home that they essentially had burned down
(06:31):
for insurance money. But at the time, the pastor was
told that the house burned down due to a wiring issue.
So again, these people stop at nothing to throw people
that trust and love them under the bus. They always
want to blame other people for their horrific actions. They
set this house on fire for the insurance payout, and
(06:53):
then they brought it back around and said, oh, it
was a wiring issue and you wired our house, so
it was all your fault. What is wrong with you?
They are just so selfish and they just don't act normal.
I don't understand it. So this pastor liked the Wagner
family even so much that he let his son go
to the Wagner family home and spend the night. And
(07:13):
he goes on to testify that if he had been
aware of any type of unsavory activities that the Wagners
were up to, the theft, the arson, all of their wrongdoings,
he never would have let a son go there. So
I think this really illustrates that even though they were
relatively close, he really had no idea what was going
on behind the closed doors of the Wagner family home.
(07:36):
And I think this is just a testament to how
the Wagner family operated and how they were able to
fly under the radar for so long, because this is
somebody that knew them very well. They went to this
Man's church. They were pretty close to him. It sounds
like Billy had confided in him on multiple different occasions,
(07:56):
and still he had no idea what was really going on.
Next up we hear from Caleb, who is Kelly's son
and would also go on to become a pastor of
the church as well. He said he met Jake and
George when they were kids, and they got along really well.
They would go hunt, they would fish, they would four wheel,
and they would do all the typical type of kid
(08:17):
activities together. He said that he moved to Alaska when
he was fourteen, and he kind of semi kept in
touch with George and Jake, and at one point when
he was sixteen, George and Jake and the Wagner family
came to Alaska to visit. Caleb said that in twenty
fifteen he got a message from Jake on Facebook messenger
(08:37):
and it was essentially asking him if there were any
women's groups with the church up in Alaska that Hannah
could attend. And Caleb thought that this was a really
odd question, so he didn't respond. So again, this is
another really interesting little testimony bit of information to show
you that Jake Wagner thought that Hannah was essentially misguided
(09:00):
and needed to go to Alaska to kind of straighten
her out. He is just the actual worst. So anyways,
Caleb says that in twenty seventeen, Jake had reached out
and contacted him and said that they were coming back
to Alaska and asked if they wanted to get dinner,
and Jake and George ended up going over to Caleb
(09:22):
and his wife's home for dinner. Now keep in mind,
this was after the murders, and Caleb said that Alaska
was pretty far away from everything else, so he didn't
really keep up with what was going on back in Ohio.
But he did hear that Hannah may Roden had passed away. However,
he didn't know the circumstances of any of it, so
(09:42):
he brought it up a dinner, just kind of catching
up with everyone, and that is when Jake told him
about the Rodin family murders, which is interesting dinner topic conversation.
So shortly after this is when the Wagner family officially
moved to Alaska, so it's believed that they went there
in order to kind of scout it out to see
(10:02):
if that would be a good place for them. To move. Now,
they claim they didn't move there because of the BCI's investigation,
but they a thousand percent moved there because of the
BCI's investigation, and this trip was really about scouting it
out to see if it would be a good place
for them to live. So shortly after that they moved there,
and they would end up attending the church that Caleb
(10:26):
was the pastor at. He said that Jake Wagner started
coming to church more frequently, especially when he started dating
Beth Ann, And he said he really didn't know beth
And very well. But Jake had talked to Caleb about
marrying Beth Anne, and he tried to tell him it
might be too soon, and all of the other stuff
was going on at the time with the Wagner family investigation,
(10:48):
and Caleb thought, you might want to let all of
this other stuff settle and get finalized and have resolution
in that before you look at getting married. So at
one point in time came ended up being contacted by
BCI agents about the Wagner family and they basically told
him that he needed to stay away from them because
(11:08):
they were dangerous. And he didn't really know how to
feel about this, but given that the Wagner family were
regularly attending church there. He felt that he needed to
tell the church officials what was going on what he
was told by the BCI, because he said, he very
much respects law enforcement and thinks that they wouldn't have
said something like that if it weren't true. He said,
(11:29):
when everything came out officially and Jake Wagner confessed and
took a plead deal, he was absolutely shocked by everything
and had no idea that Jake had the capability of
doing such a horrific thing. Same goes for his family,
and he said that the way Jake acted when he
was living in Alaska was no different than the way
he acted when they were kids. So the fact that
(11:50):
he was able to complete this horrifically horrible act and
then go on and just pretend like everything was the same,
nothing had changed, was just very shocking to him. And honestly,
I can't even imagine having somebody as a childhood friend,
somebody that I've grown up with, and then we become,
you know, friends in our adult years, they end up
(12:10):
living again in the same state again, end up attending
church together. I would also be shocked by this whole thing.
That this individual who have known pretty much since I
was a little kid, was capable of doing this and
also just carrying on as normal. Next up, we have
Agent Ryan Scheider and he is back up on the stand.
(12:33):
He talks about the reconstruction he did of the platform
for the truck bed that Jake and George hid underneath
when they first went to Chris Senior's home. So he
essentially recreated this whole platform and had two people volunteer
to get inside and lay down as Jake Wagner said
that Jake and George did that night, and they very
(12:54):
much went about choosing two people that were taller and
a little bigger than Jake and George, more so just
to prove that they could fit inside and lay down
comfortably without any issues. The recreation of this whole thing
was super necessary, and I think they did a great
job in doing this. He then talks about the bugging
of the properties. Originally, the Wagner family had been interested
(13:16):
in purchasing a home in Missouri, and they were able
to contact the people in Missouri to potentially get access
to the home so that way they could wire it,
but the sale never ended up going through, so that
was kind of scrubbed. They also attempted to do the
listening devices in the Alaska house as well, but the
Wagners were in and out of there so quickly that
(13:36):
they were never able to finish the project. So once
they got back to Ohio and Jake and George got
jobs at the Truck and Company, they were able to
contact this company and they were cooperative and agreeable to
letting the BCI agents wire the trucks that Jake and
George were going to be using. So they officially started
monitoring conversations of the Wagner family in May of twenty eighteen.
(14:00):
So what they do from there is really really interesting.
They want to kind of stimulate conversations between the Wagners
now because they have the recording devices on them and
they're able to kind of listen to what's going on
and their messages back and forth, so they kind of
start planting things. Ryan talks about how he had texted
(14:21):
George and asked him if he could talk with him.
He attached a picture of Jake holding a gun and
said he wanted to talk to him about the photo.
He had also asked Rita and Angela to provide handwriting samples,
and there was also some type of message boards that
I guess were talking about the murders and Angela was
monitoring them actively and they knew that, so Ryan created
(14:44):
an account on there and was kind of posting things
here and there just to keep them talking about stuff,
because if you remember, after the homicides occurred, they vowed
as a family to not talk about the murders. So obviously,
with this increase BCI involvement, they knew that they were
(15:04):
kind of onto them, but they didn't know that they
were listening. But they wanted to create a scenario in
which they were forced to talk about it because if
Agent Scheider is sending text messages to George, you know
George is going to say something to Jake about that.
This is the same thing that transpired in the Dan
Markell case when they instigated the bump with Donna, Charlie
(15:26):
and Katie. All of that kind of went down the
way it did, and that is what led to them
being able to get their arrest warrants and get convictions
in that case. Because of that bump, they simulated a
situation where they were essentially forced to talk about it,
and they were able to get it all caught on audio.
(15:47):
So next to defense and prosecution very much try to
argue about bringing in the recordings of these different wire taps.
Some of them are longer, some are shorter, and they
go back and forth about these wire taps coming in
and some the judge allows and some the judge doesn't allow.
There was even some threats made to Agent Ryan during
(16:08):
these wire taps that even made him have to have
security at his home because they were threatening his life.
So we are going to get into the wire taps.
It is very, very apparent from these wire taps that
George Wagner the fourth was so paranoid about things, things
that weren't even a thing. Now. There was a conversation
where he spoke about Sophia and beth Ann and how
(16:29):
basically he thought that beth Ann was going to take
Sophia and his son Bulvine and sell them into the
sex trade. And I think that it's important to go
over this type of stuff because this is the same
type of conversation that was going on with Sophia and
Hannah Mae Rodin. Allegedly there was talk about them being
worried about her being sexually molested, and that is the
(16:52):
whole reason that they carried out the murder so Jake
could get sole custody because they were worried about Sophia's safety.
That is very much how they put things. And then
the next woman that Jake finds in Alaska, beth Ann.
It's the exact same song and dance, and I just
don't believe that either of these scenarios are true, and
(17:12):
I truly think it's something the Wagners created in their
own heads to justify their really really shitty behavior. Again,
that is just my opinion, but it just seems way
too coincidental that all of this stuff is transpiring with
every relationship that they have, Tabitha, Hannah may Rhaden, beth An.
It's just not possible that these people have such bad
(17:36):
luck with women. I think they're the common denominator here
and not the women. Again, just my opinion, and I
wholeheartedly think that if beth Ann wasn't able to get
away from them, that she fully would have been their
next victim. Then there is talks about how beth Ann
was allegedly poisoning them, and again that's the exact same
(17:57):
scenario that they said about Tabitha. So it is literally
a wash, rinse, and repeat of everything they've already gone through,
just this time it's with beth Ann instead of with Tabitha.
So that ends day thirty eight. There's still a lot
of back and forth about the wire taps, what will
be let in, what won't be There's a lot of
arguing between the prosecution and the defense. Ultimately it's up
(18:20):
to the judge with what's allowed in and what's not.
So we are now going to get into date thirty nine,
which is the day that we actually get to hear
the wire taps. So we are going to get into
all of that now, and I'm going to play recordings
of the stuff for you guys, because I think it's
really interesting to hear them actually talking. Sometimes it's hard
(18:42):
to understand what they're saying. Sometimes it's jarbled and they
mumble and all of that, but they're all really interesting
and very insightful conversations if you ask me so. Pretty much,
the rest of this episode is going to be recording heavy.
I might interject every so often and explain something, but
(19:03):
we're going to just be hearing all of these wire
taps from here on forward. I do want to give
credit to WCPO nine on YouTube for these audio recordings,
that is where I am getting them from. They are
publicly available on the internet. This whole trial was streamed
and recorded, so all of that information is all over YouTube.
(19:27):
If you want to go down the rabbit hole like
I did and listen to everything, watch every witness give
their testimony, listen to all of these recordings. There is
a lot going on here. So, like I said, these
wire taps include the trucks that Jake and George used
for work, and also Jake, George, Angela, and Billy Wagner's
(19:49):
cell phones, and then there was a couple other cell
phones that they ended up getting and those as well.
So we have phone calls between all of the Wagner
family members that we're recorded. The first one we're gonna
hear is a conversation between Jake and beth Anne and
it is about Angela. I'm going to just start playing
(20:11):
the recording. I am going to warn you in the
very beginning it is really hard to hear what beth
is saying to Jake, but things do get a little
more clear as they go, But essentially it is beth
Ann and Jake talking about Angela and you're just going
to be able to hear kind of the progression of
(20:31):
things from there. So we are going to play that, now.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Would you bet?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
You check out? Worry what I can't.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I'm gonna hope on my hearing because I'm in the
back room and I court.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Your mom telling you that you should back me again?
Are more more I can't? I said, and I kind
(21:14):
of the day.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
M hm hm, well all of them my.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Okay whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
And stupid than that.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
I set exactly saying that I should still look around
the stuff like it.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Was one along riding. Uh are you sure.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
That okay?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Like, are you just going to take what offic said
dropped the stud jack because apparently.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
They said something else that wasn't what you said before,
like this first gas head it's.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I didn't hear any of that. You came backing out.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I can't hear it out. I can't. I did m
and AM has said that's what you did know if
I the dead and drop it at that dropped apparently
(22:57):
you go back over CERFCT you did, you didn't the
idiot give it back?
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And more don't.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Look like that and what not? Don't back you get
the strict worry.
Speaker 6 (23:24):
Yok Nope, what.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Mh bo bly what.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And not really could bang a vocal with the kind
of good vision.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Kind of vision guys. I do want to interject here
there are a lot of dead zones in this phone call,
because honestly, Jake doesn't know what to say to Bethanne
about this whole situation. So I think a lot of
it is like him pausing trying to figure out, like
what am I supposed to say to her? Because essentially
(24:46):
this conversation was Jake and Angela having a conversation about
beth Anne and her relationship with Sophia and how Angela
basically told Jake you shouldn't stop suspecting her. And I
can't even imagine what Bethane was thinking during this entire
conversation and this entire experience in her life. I can't
(25:08):
imagine going through this, especially knowing that Hannah may Rodin
had also been previously killed and she was in the
same place that Bethane was in. It's just wild even
trying to fathom what that must feel like. So we're
going to get back into the conversation now. There, like
I said, are a lot of dead zones where it
(25:30):
is like minutes of silence. I'm trying to do my
best to cut those out, but anytime I do cut
them out, I have to rewind and make sure that
I'm not missing any important parts of the conversation. So
just bear with me during this conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
H I don't look back.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Job.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's it's really really difficult. So that will so much.
Who thinks that I'm worse than a murderer, and she
is so willing to believe.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
It, like something to believe.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That I'm worse than a murderer. Mhm.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
All relationships they're going by trust that disloy, like the truck, and.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
It's kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
The trust that eating away on Michael.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Think, I don't know that I know why eat like
that before and the dudet got.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I don't know how we having fault.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh yeah, okay, I'm goy.
Speaker 8 (28:02):
And so it is obvious that this whole thing is
really eating away at Bethan.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
She says it makes her not even want to exist.
And I can't imagine feeling like that being put into
this type of situation where you have this family who
essentially has taken you in again under their wing. Trying
to control her and then putting these accusations on her
to make her feel this way. It is a vicious cycle,
(28:40):
and we're going to get more into it. But I
truly think that Angela Wagner is the mastermind behind all
of this, and we're going to get into wiretaps with
her and Jake talking about Bethan and it's all going
to kind of culminate and come full circle. But this
poor girl was literally one of their other victims. And
(29:02):
like I said, had they not been arrested, had she
not gotten out, who knows what would have happened to her.
So that is essentially the extent of the conversation between
Jake and beth Anne. They again were talking about a
conversation that Bethand overheard him having with his mom, Angela
Wagner aka, in my opinion, the puppet master. So that
(29:25):
was that conversation. There was a lot of silence in there.
There was an occasional thing that I clipped out just
because of the timing of it, but you got all
the necessary and pertinent information that you really needed to
in that clip. The next conversation we hear is going
to be another conversation between Jake and Bethanne. And also
(29:48):
keep in mind they were married at this time. They
were legally a married couple at the time that all
of this is transpiring. And this call occurred on May
thirtieth of twenty eighteen, and in the call they are
discussing the Wagner family dynamics. So buckle up.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I heard that.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
You love me, don't matter what she thinks about me,
and she let me what you think about me?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah, I can say that, but I am good with him.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I think on the weekend beat day.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
I agree, you pig that out say that, but I
look a herd.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I dig out of the week and be to day
out of the week.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
But that actually matter? Oh well that actually think you
should turn out like her guard Now say you know,
I just cant take a chain where she could be
y over night writing, couldn't.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I couldn't get the topic, her get the topic after.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Pretty much.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Stay away from the can the whole time go on
in the end? How many where she could out her
and if I could, if I have anything to do
(31:47):
with them, picture out and.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Go back to me because h becoming every saying on
the line.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
But I.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Okay, so I've.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Told you because we keeps trying.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
To clothe me in the back.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
If I wanted to not be paying a patient percent
of the time.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
And if she needed to see an e quote unlock
when I work or.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
More than one minute, your mom will say that as
a possible time when I could have been a bell,
I'm WORTU really constantly on edge and constantly watching and
(33:09):
constantly having to make sure that I don't touch the
kids or that they don't follow me in the room
or follow me into the house when your mom's not in.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
There or anything like that. And she's only and she's
constantly watching the same way like kind of to make
sure that they're not following me and make sure that
we're all along together.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
And it is extremely stridful for everybody can and of
course the kids don't understand why they can't wait with
me until they keep saying.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Like, hey, anybody like that like that?
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Then I can't do it because.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Yeah, okay, it's really pretty would.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Make because like I said, there was a.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Time when.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I want to being alone in the house and along
in the road with.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Five of them.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
That would be thinking a potential time where I could
have been.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Abasing one of the.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Kids I'll try other words, doesn't know.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I don't know. I need the way to get it.
But it's doing you don't want what good?
Speaker 5 (34:50):
I'm sure, but I can't that. That's like let's putting
out relationship no walk and you do amatic world come back?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
M m. I practically how it is anyway? Where is
the that right now? That's practically how it is anyway?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Why is it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Pretty much on hold? As did?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Okay, okay, hopefully they like remain here.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Ah yeah. But after a year after that was still
you're still into it.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
It's not going to accept me what your mom does? Yeah,
you see that right? A little for mom do that
around me?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
She'd beyond that sum me h yeah, I mean I
could try and talk to mom about saying, but honestly,
are that good? It may all day the particular.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Really what they come down that.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Said, I try talking mom about but how do you
feel about it?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
That?
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Whatnot?
Speaker 5 (36:50):
But when it comes back down to it, it'd be
better if he talk mom about alvid, how if.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
About knowed whatnot?
Speaker 3 (37:05):
M huh. They wouldn't care. That doesn't matter at her.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
See the home to care.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
A lot of how comeing affected me. That doesn't matter
to her. The only thing that matters to her is
the kids. And you died, so she didn't care that
what alcoming affected me, because I mean, and think about it,
if you had a snake in your house and she'd
(37:43):
take me up a snake, doesn't thinking how you wouldn't
care one bet how the how shutting your swinging.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Out the think like they don't care.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And that's the way it is. So it doesn't matter
how something like me.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Anyone but you, Okay. So after beth Anne makes that comment,
there's a long pause of just pure and utter silence,
and about a minute in beth Ann lets out a
exasperated side just like she is done with this conversation.
(38:20):
She's done with Jake and Angela pulling the strings and
trying to make her out to be the bad guy
when she is not the bad guy. She literally did nothing.
And it's just so interesting the dynamics here, And we're
going to get into the wire taps between Angela and
Jake next and that is going to be an even
(38:42):
wilder ride. Get ready to see Angela Wagner in action.
It's going to be so interesting. We're going to finish
out this wire tap between beth Ann and Jake, and
then we're going to get into the rest.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Different I I longed that the ussion is player that's
gonna realize that there's pretty much no way discluding that
was faking either. So it's kind of yah there mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
I obviously I get proved the phone this point on
that I I am not doing that, ah, but there's
no where to go.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
But I did not did that and go no matter
what happened that I shouldn't want to do me that.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
H h don't know. I'm very numb out o mhm mhmm.
(40:50):
Other than that, what uh did you know all the
whole first how I try to come.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
I didn't spend the whole first week, I said, in
the first week, you did because she brought it up,
she said, but sometimes go.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Ah like sleep attending this week, and so you might.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Think she she wanted she might have seen something during
that time, like you might have wat you live to sleep.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
And then she was talking about the shirt off comment
that Sophie had made in the.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Living room, and so I did tell her that during
the first week we're living here, you had sometime downe
that joy of thing. After Sophie was asleep, like looking
at my shirt.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Work one came to m hm, do something more in here.
I didn't say that it.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Was all week long.
Speaker 7 (42:15):
I said that in the.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
First week that it happened that given I wanted to
do think here actress the week that everyone with.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
An a first week me too, that that was not
something that should be done.
Speaker 7 (42:37):
That happened.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Don't you remember that?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Okay, so what's the big thing I was in that?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Why that I did not right that I was Ah,
she had said.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
H.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He said, I want every night that the person one person.
Speaker 5 (43:35):
Whatever happened, And yes, what's yet or not that you
knew was inaccurate because there.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Was a line within the first week.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I didn't pay every single line.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It's because that was not what I intended to communicate.
And anyway, the only thing I'm going to to communicate
during the birth week.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
The good.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I don't know about you, guys, but I am cringing
internally listening to this conversation. Jake saying it's not a
big deal after he's literally grilling her on what she
said to his mom about their sex life is freaking weird. Okay,
there is no getting around it. It's bizarre. It's weird.
(44:41):
Why is he questioning what she told Angela? And why
is Angela talking to Jake about it? Like this is
all just such a weird family dynamic they have going
on here and I cannot rationalize what is wrong with
these people. This conversation is almost over, so we are
going to get back to it and get wrapped up.
I promise we are coming to the end soon.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And Germany.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
Where not a Germany?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Okay, So that is the conversation. She ends up saying
she feels like she lives in Nazi Germany and Jake
Wagner doesn't know where that is or apparently anything about
the history of our world. But that is how we're
going to end episode eight. Episode nine is going to
be a doozy because we get to hear the wire
(45:30):
task between Angela and Jake, and what I tell you,
it is some wild backwoods hillbilly stuff. It is some
wild backwoods hillbly stuff, like you can literally hear Banjo's
playing in the background during some of these conversations. Not really,
but really it.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Is a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So we are going to call that good for episode
eight of Summer series. We are going to pick up
next week with continued wire taps, We're going to get
through them, slowly but surely, and and I will see
you guys back here next week for Part nine. See
you then, bye,
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