Mr. Perfect’s REAL WWE Legacy: Sean Mooney Tells the Untold Story

In this exclusive deep dive, Sean Mooney shares behind-the-scenes stories of Curt Hennig — better known as Mr. Perfect. From his legendary in-ring performances to the personal battles that shaped his journey, we uncover the triumphs, tragedies, and unforgettable legacy of one of WWE’s most iconic superstars.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a Prime Time with Sean Mooney production.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
From perfect Plexus to spinning gum and hitting it ever
so perfectly. Today we're talking about mister Perfect here on
the Golden Era Podcast with Shawn Mooney.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
How you doing today, I'm doing great, Steve. It's funny
that you started that with the whole thing with the gum,
because that's like the first thing when I was watching
some of the video and I thought that was like
such a Kurt thing to do because he was always
chewing gum. And then he started doing things when he
got in the ring and he would like spin it
out and bat it into the crowd, Like what you

(00:36):
imagine you're out there, Oh, I got mister perfect gum.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm just gonna ask you that you imagine someone's like, listen, Jimmy,
I have the gum, and.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I have my own gum story. Anyway, but we'll get
to that.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Amazing to hear.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
But I was always very intrigued by mister because honestly,
he would throw a pin in the air, he'd catch it.
He'd throw the gum in the air, he'd swatt it,
He'd throw a towel in the air, Bobby would catch it.
There was ever a moment unless I was edited for
TV reasons, and it seemed like he wasn't being perfect. Now,
for you, before we get into his career, I really
want to talk about his personal relationship with you, because

(01:11):
mister Perfect is one of those people everyone keeps talking about.
But for you, what did mister perfect mean to you personally?
Kurt Henning?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, and I've mentioned it many many times. Kurt was
one of my favorite people there there. I had a few,
but you know, Kurt was just such a good guy
and Master River, you know, that's that kind of was
his you know, it followed him everywhere because he loved

(01:40):
doing ribs and some of them went a little far,
but you know, and when you just got one on
one with the guy, he was always like really interested
in what you were up to. He would come into
the studio and hang out. When I'd been doing the
events center, he used to come in a lot to
do promo stuff, you know, during the time when he

(02:02):
wasn't in the ring as much. And so I got
to know him pretty well, and he was just you know, uh,
somebody at that at that level and and uh, you know,
to really take the time that genuinely was you know,
just just cool, you know, like this would come in
and just bullshit about whatever. And I also got to

(02:25):
know his dad. I got to know Larry a bit
because he would come to the events and was just
always really complimentary to me. And I don't know why,
because you know, I wasn't I wasn't one of the boys.
I didn't, but he would always he really liked what
I did. And so in a sense there he got
to a little you know, I got to find out,

(02:46):
you know what where how this all happened. And and
Larry was you know, just a really solid, you know
guy that you know, had had this tremendous career and
very much old school and you know, they growing up
in Minnesota. And I'm sure you've heard about Robbinsdale High School,

(03:09):
which was this uh you know, turned out to be
this reading ground for some of the greatest professional wrestlers
ever and during that era, and and it makes sense,
but you know, people are so and rick rude, and uh,
you know, all these guys came from there at the

(03:31):
same time that during that you know, they're all within
a fewer, you know, five or six years of each other.
And it was because you know, the a w A
was there and all a lot of these wrestlers, these
old school wrestler guys kids went to went to the
school and then you know, they had an incredible athletic
program there, as you can imagine, because these guys are

(03:52):
all great athletes and Kurt was among them. He could
do everything well and as we know with the Moniker
and Bruce Pritcher tells the story of how they you know,
came to the idea of him becoming mister Perfect. But
you know, Kurt was just really a great athlete and
really excelled at as an amateur wrestler. And his dad,

(04:18):
you know, talks about Larry talks about early on that
he could see that and and that was his passion
from the time he was a kid. And I'm sure
it had a lot to do with the fact that
he was just around the business so much and that's
what his father did. But that, uh, that solid upbringing
and uh, you know, and that family you could just tell,

(04:39):
you know that it was all about family to him,
and these strong ties that he had with these guys
his entire life, and it just made him who he was.
He was just very down to earth you know, later
in his career there he you know, he became really
great friends with Wade Boggs, the great uh yeah baseball

(05:01):
player that was. You know, he inducted him into the
Hall of Fame and uh, you know Wade was one
of those kind of guys too, uh and attracted to
each other in that sense. You know, they were like
to hunt and that kind of stuff. But I'm the
point of it being is he was just like this
down to earth, got all the fame and everything that
came with it, and the money and everything like that,

(05:25):
but he was just when it all came down to it. Uh,
you know, Kurt was just a really genuine guy. You
got you know, you got what he was, always who
he was. You know, you got what you got with him.
It wasn't you know, anything didn't big time you because
he was around certain people at any time he saw you,

(05:46):
at any event, he had come over, you know, backstage,
whatever it was. And he wouldn't just come in and
do his his interviews and then blow out of there.
He was just always in a in a great mood,
always kidding around. I don't ever remember. I'm sure there
were dark times, but you know, most of the time
that I spent with him, it was you know, it

(06:07):
was just awesome. I was just it was like kind
of like a big brother, kind of like to me
in a sense that I felt like that when you're
around him.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
That's awesome to hear.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah, because so many stories of wrestlers being either rude
or just coming to work and leaving. It sounds like
he was having a good time while at work with
especially it seems like with you, because you know he's
one of your favorites in any interaction on camera.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
It's great. You know, shut up Mooney.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
As a classic line that a lot of people used
on you, but perfect he did it with a extra love,
extra love, it seems.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Look and well we've talked about that before too, like
what you know, like Bobby would say who who, and
it was it was how they they If they put
you over, then you know they liked you, they didn't
you were in good favor with them in a sense.
And you know this stuff like with with Kurt saying
you shut up mooney, are even you know, putting your

(07:02):
name over just that was just that little sense of
letting you know, of putting you over, and you know,
and that's the way Kurt was.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's awesome because again he is brought up so many
different times as being one of the greatest of all times.
And we'll get into that discussion later on in the show.
But the story, the myth of him coming into the
WWF interviews and all that good stuff. But he brings
his father, does a sit down with Vince and they're
talking about what are you good at? Because they're trying
to come with names for this guy, what are you

(07:31):
good at? And he's I'm pretty good at everything. But
the myth about this is Terry Taylor is also going
to be signed to the ww at the time. And
one wrestler gets this perfect gimmick he's the best at everything, dart, wrestling, bowling, baseball.
The other guy gets turned into a half rooster man

(07:51):
the Red Rooster. Now you were there, Can you clarify
if there's any truth to these two wrestlers coming in
These gimmicks are already made, but they don't know who
they're going to go to.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, I have to I'll be honest here when I'm
just looking through the notes and seeing that today that
you know there was considered to be you know, Terry
Taylor is considered to be mister perfect. I'm honestly guy,
I never ever ever heard that. I don't know where
that came from. And if it was true, then maybe

(08:27):
I don't know, but it's not something that I ever heard,
and I can't And and we've talked about Terry before
and he, you know, tremendous talent. I don't think that
you know, he ever really got his his chance in
the in the w WE, but if they would have considering,

(08:47):
you know, that him as mister perfect compared to Kurt Headache. Now,
I think that Kurt was an easy choice for that.
I'm talking gimmick wise. Both were great, you know, good
ring tacticians, but Kurt I certainly give the edge there.
And if you ever saw a match of his, you

(09:08):
would I think you'd agree if if he was in
his peak condition, when he wasn't dealing with a lot
of the health issues that he had a lot of
the ailments that dogged him for a good part of
his career. But yeah, when it came down to you,
like you said, they're sitting in that room and I
would have loved to hear that conversation because you know,

(09:29):
what do you do? And he's like, like the golf, basketball,
and what's what are your best at I'm like, I'm
good at everything, you know, I just I can just
hear him saying that, and and and then that perfect
monitor Moniker was born. And it's certainly it played well.

(09:50):
But as we you know, people have talked about many times,
you know, if you're going to have a gimmick like that,
get better be able to live up to it. You know,
Kurt did all right it off.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
It's just so true because if you're perfect at everything
and you suck at the ring and then well immediately
we start off on a bad foot.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Here.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
We were not doing a great job.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
But they did a great job introducing him to the
WWF audience with vignettes. We got baseball hitting home runs,
you know, we get strikes, we get darts, we have
swimming with everything. But then I rewatched the midster of
Perfect documentary. In my heart was shattered when Bruce Pritchard
revealed that he did not just hit home runs and

(10:35):
strikes and hitting the darts in the middle and swimming, No,
those are all edited.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Now.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
He would eventually hit those moves or hit that shot,
but they it took like one hundred takes to get him.
I was sad when I found that out today. I
was this old when I found that out.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, I think you're exaggerating a little bit here, Steve,
Like hundreds of shots. No, No, it was never.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
That many, and we'll say ten.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yes, but I remember, you know, and think about it.
You know, a lot of that stuff was pretty crazy.
But as Bruce tells the story though, that you know
that Kurt really was really good at doing everything and
and doing extraordinary things. Uh. You know, there's like the
baseball thing and he got up there and he hit

(11:20):
a he hit a home run. And Wade box telling
the story because that's why I think when they first
started to had, you know, becoming friends, and they wanted, well,
we got to get a ballplayer to come out and
uh and Wade was a natural choice there. And he said, well,
you know, going there and he goes, I thought that
what they're going to have to do, you know, they'd
have him hit the ball and it looked like it

(11:42):
was a pretty good hit, and then they'd cut it
and then they go back to mister perfect and they
and he goes and he hits he hit a home run.
I mean, now I don't know how many people have
done that. And uh, you know it's not easy to do.
You got to really get a smack a ball. Uh.
But uh, as Bruce tells the story, though, you know

(12:03):
that that you know, Kurt was really good at this stuff.
And when they say, okay, let's let's try one and
we're going to shoot now action where it would he
couldn't do it. And so what he would do is
he just wouldn't tell Kurt. They would just roll on
everything once they started, even if he was practicing or whatever,

(12:23):
which was because also you know, Kurt would be messing
around doing things between takes or something. Uh. And and
and it would because of athleticism, it would be kind
of cool whether you know, like say, for the example,
with the golf ball or something, and he would bounce
the golfle like Tiger Woods would do, you know, and
he would just be messing around, but he had this

(12:45):
you know, hand eye coordination or whatever. Or he might
do something with the basketball, and so they could they
would just roll. And especially because a lot of this
stuff was chance, you know that. But you know, you're
at the other end of the court completely and you
need to take a ball and do that and in
the general direction, well maybe if you do it a

(13:07):
thousand times, might do it, but he might do it,
you know, third or fourth time, just because you know,
messing around. So that was a really that was a
really good idea. But it also you know, they didn't
end up getting these little nuggets of stuff that he
was doing, and it would basically be kind of an outtake,
uh that they could use. And so that was that

(13:28):
was that was really smart when they when they started
doing that. But you know, trying to do that was
not easy to act, you know, to capture it on
tape and be able to use it, you know, like
a forty foot putt or something like that. Well, you
know you could be there for hours trying to get it,
you know, within a you know, get this close, get

(13:48):
this closer, like bounces in Grimy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
So now those are so much fun because you know,
for a little while for introductions of characters, we only
saw this happened for a few people million Oile the
Man receive these vignettes a few people in the past,
but really this is like the beginning where the mounte
and suddenly you know, the bushwhackers get him and the
nasty boys and legit, everyone starts getting these vignettes introducing

(14:14):
people to the audience. It's it's a nice way because
suddenly those are pre tapes the Eventure going to on
Superstars in primetime and Wrestling Challenge that was shot a
month ago. So in reality, that crowd has no idea.
Who missed the Perfect is until those vignettes stopped playing
on television. I thought it was a perfect way to

(14:34):
introduce him to the audience. But he's a great talker,
He's incredible on the microphone. But yet they kept putting
managers with him. Is this just because this is the
time that everyone needs a manager? Or is it Vince
maybe being worried? What do you mentally think why that
keeps happening?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I don't know. I honestly, I look back that Kurt
didn't need one, and you know, quick a note on
that you talk about those vignettes is, uh, they were
brilliant in a sense because as far as bring the
character before mister Perfect made his debut, everybody was already

(15:15):
you know, dying to see who this guy was, and
they already knew what he was all about. You know. Uh,
it was it was a great way to introduce these
characters so that when they did hit the ring, they
were already over or they're already had heat. And uh,
you know, I I used to I thought those were brilliant,

(15:36):
especially with like the ones mister Purfect. By the time
that Kurt actually, you know, made his debut, he already
had heat with people. You know that he didn't have
to keep build it up in the ring and build
it up on TV every week for weeks and weeks
and weeks. He already had heat. And uh, you know,
that was a great way to do it. So anyway,

(16:01):
that that the fact that you know, Kurt was you know, natural,
and he didn't need a manager. I I and I
and then you know, and I don't know if Lanny
was first. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
You got the genius, Bobby Heenan, and you got Coach.
So we'll kind of break them all down right now
a little bit. But yeah, first the genius. Everyone hates
the genius, so you put him with anybody you hate
the wrestler. By the beginning, when mister Perfect first shows up,
he doesn't have a manager.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
He's wearing like classic just blue tights. He doesn't have.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
His his classic I have it right here his classic gear.
He's not wearing this, He's wearing blue tights, you know,
the the underwear. But yeah, then eventually he gets the
genius and you're like, okay, I guess, but how does
that in my brain fit?

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Like, yeah, it didn't. And especially you know, and I
loved Lannie, uh you know, and and uh and I
guess to give him something to do. I don't know,
they weren't, you know, they didn't have big plans for
him in the ring as a you know, the solo
thing going, and would come out and do the poems.
But it was one of those things where it just

(17:10):
what did that add to the perfect character? It really didn't. Now,
you know, Bobby might have made a little sense, because
Bobby is a heat generator, you know, and just to
turn it up, you know, to eleven. But yeah, none
of that made And it didn't make any sense because
I didn't Kurt didn't need one. He was already a

(17:31):
good which was you could see in the vignettes. So
the idea behind that really didn't make a whole lot
of sense to me. Bobby, Okay, I get it, you know,
making part of the Emily or whatever, you know, just
to it just helps turn up that heat. But Lanny, I, honestly,

(17:52):
I still don't get it.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
No, it's very shocking because again you see all these
vignettes him with charisma, hating all these shots and bowling
and just everything he has got charisma, and then out
of nowhere again these managers are not in these vignettes
with him, so he's being introduced by himself.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
When he shows up, he's by himself. He gets a genius.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
But while he has the genius, he does start a
storyline with Hulte Cogan, and this actually kicks off something
that's interesting because the genius holds a paint, not a
pinfall a win a w over hult Cogan on an
episode of Satday Night's the main event by count out
because mister Perfect got involved. So in reality, congratulations genius,

(18:32):
you did it, sir. You beat hult Coogan during the
height of Hulke Comania because of mister Perfect.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
So he can I guess he can.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Say that in them take it doesn't matter how the
w got there, how it got.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
There, Nope, nope, not the asterisk, don't look at that.
But while mister Perfect does have a robbery with hult Cogan,
We're gonna jump around, folks, We're not gonna stay.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
We're not gonna go with the timeline here.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
But with Hult Cogan, mister perfect steals the WWF championshiprom
Home Cogan. He brings it backstage and he smashes it
to pieces with a hammer.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
And this is something I have never seen done before.
What was the thought of this?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Because this is huge, Like someone's been injuring Houlk Cogan
over the years, big guys, but someone has ever taken
his championship and smashed it into a million pieces.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well, uh, and you just said it. I mean, uh,
you know, never been done for how dare you? I
mean really, And it was just an It wasn't just
an affront to Hult Cocin. It was to that championship,
you know, to the how dare you? But the arrogance

(19:41):
and that the confidence was what you know, kind of
shined through for that character. So I think it was
something that got people. It was different and uh and
certainly raised the heat factor. I still, you know, wonder

(20:05):
why that Kurt didn't get that opportunity though, to really
wear that strap. It never never really happened. And I
don't even know if there was a real discussion about it.
But because I think that, you know, he certainly could

(20:26):
stand toe to toe with someone like Kul Cogan and
and have a good run.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Well, mister Perfect, he mister Brig's on a list.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Anytime makes a top ten list of wrestlers who never
won the world title, mister Perfect is usually one or two.
They know the man's up there as well. Right, I
don't count him stealing it with double referee, sorry, folks,
But with mister Perfect he's on that list, and with
a robbery with Cogan. Though in nineteen ninety we are
inching our way to wrestlinga six to have Hogan take
on Warrior, so obviously there's no time for Perfect to

(20:55):
get a championship and then flip it over. So I
but before we jump into why Kurt was never a
world champion, the rumor, as long as I remember it
was the smash WWF Championship was actually the ww Hardcore
Championship that Mankind was handed over to in nineteenty eight
by Vince McMahon because it was all smashed up, it

(21:16):
was duct taped and had hardcore.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I believe that.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Rumor up until I heard Bruce Pritchard kind of say,
I don't I don't think that's true. What were your
thoughts when you years later would abruptly see attitude era
of things and seeing like is that the world title
that perfect smashed?

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah? That I feel the same way because it was well,
there was a great a separation of time there, Like
you're wonder like, was it in back somewhere pulled this
thing out again? Yeah? So that's and Bruce is the source.

(21:57):
I mean really he was there and uh uh so
I got to go along with that, you know, but
it did make you wonder, Yeah, they didn't want to
waste the belt or something. They're expensive, I don't know, don't.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Get another one, just get buy one and smash a
new one.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah. But yeah, that and people that would be a
really interesting conversation to have with some of these people
that are are the officionados of of uh you know,
these championship belts and these collectors that you know, I'm
sure that that would if there was If that was true,
imagine the lore of that belt. You know, I think

(22:40):
in its condition whatever, it would be worth even more.
Oh yeah, that was attached to it. So I wonder
It's an interesting Yeah, it's an interesting take on it.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
But yeah, it was bizarre because also you could think
that like, oh, you're you're kind of in the aged era.
You're saying, like death to the wing Championship. We have
a new world titles to the Austin. You know, it's
a so we're kind of burying the old by giving
man kind of fake hardcore title with the Winged Eagle title.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
So it's kind of like a slap in the face
of the past.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
But also like, hey, let's let's let's create some lore here,
because this is as long as I can remember thinking like,
oh why because mister Perfect Smash is one here.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
You know, eight years later it's smashed.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
It is the same title, but I guess, you know,
we'll have to clarify it's not the Hardcourt Championship, but
mister Perfect smashing it.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
It's again, it's never been done before.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
We still haven't seen that up until today, where someone
takes someone else's champions. We've seen people throw them over
bridges and you know, try to blow them up and
set them on fire, but we have never seen someone
smash them. And it really I think established mister Perfect
as a player because no one won ups Hogan. Usually
it's a big dude like earthquakes, you know, smushing you

(23:51):
in the Brother Love show, there's Brother Love right there
or Andre, you know, ripping the necklace off them, like,
there's just much more here to mister Perfect. Yes, call it,
but I just want to say congratulations to the Genius
for beating Hulk Cogan. Mister Perfect didn't do it, but
the Genius did, so that's right. W call him there,
W call him there. Uh though with mister Perfect in

(24:14):
the Genius, they had a nice little run there, but
as time would go on, mister Perfect heads into WrestleMania
six nineteen ninety SkyDome Hogan Russ Warriors the main event, Huge,
huge night. But mister Perfect is undefeated heading into this,
and mister Perfect has a robberty with Brutus the barber Beefcake.
Beefcake cut the Genius's hair the roy rumble, and Perfect

(24:38):
attacked him and we are off the races. But Beefcake
beats perfects undefeated. Now, if you don't know Beefcake's a
friend of Hulk Cogin's, do you believe that Hogan said,
you know what we should do, We should beat mister
Perfect and it should be Beefcake because Hogan's not going

(25:01):
to do it because he's off with Warrior. After that,
he comes back in Fight Earthquake. So do you think
Hogan got involved him was like, hey, my buddy should
beat him.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
I think in most cases, and you know, I've had
many conversations with Brutus and over the years, and yeah,
and I think he credits a lot of his success
in the w WE to his good friend. Fortunately they

(25:32):
didn't they had a you know, major falling out, and
I don't think that ever really got mended. But I
think at the time, yeah, I think that that probably
had something to do with it. I also, you know,
I can't help but wonder, you know, what was you know,
Kurt in the doghouse for something like that, or you know,

(25:53):
for a little punishment. I don't know, but it it
shocked a lot of people. I mean, I don't think
anybody thought that that was gonna happen. But that was
another thing they'd love to do too, Steve, is that
they would like to do the unexpected. You know, they
they that you would, you know, once in a while,

(26:14):
just be able just to throw you off kilter, because
everybody would, you know, you would have. You would think
you'd follow the what you'd expect storyline. Of course, if
mister Perfect's gonna go in there and he's this arrogant
and he's undefeated, and you're gonna let someone like Brutus
the Barbara Beefcake beat him, and I think they they

(26:35):
like to do that once in a while. And and
and also it had something to do maybe they had
some plans down the road, but maybe they for Brutus
to and Kurt to do something or bring the connection
of Hulk into it. I don't know, but you know
that one was tough to swallow. I think a lot

(26:56):
of people were like, really, come on, what happened here?
You know? And they we're still talking about it. So
I think that, yeah, I think that in most cases,
whatever Brutus was involved in, the Hulkster had a say
in it and helped push him. But you know that
that wasn't unusual in across the boarder just where you

(27:19):
fell on the card. You know, Randy had a lot
of influence too, So you know, Lannie got a lot
of opportunities to do things that and uh I've talked,
We've talked to before. You know, Lanny was was it
was good in the ring. I mean, I think you know,
he it was a popo. They came up, you know,
and but he wasn't that for whatever reason, didn't have

(27:45):
that marquis that that that charisma that was going to
put him at a higher level. And it always helped
to have a brother who was who was in that position.
So that wasn't that wasn't that wasn't you know, crazy
to think that the Holster wouldn't have had some influence.
He had a lot of influence on what happened in

(28:08):
the company.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm glad you said that, because my first evidence here
for people who don't believe me with that question is
we go back to a rumble in nineteen ninety. The
rumor is that mister Perfect supposed to win this Royal
Rumble Hull Cogan though you know Hogan must pose.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
So Hogan is the.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
One who ends up winning the nineteen ninety Royal Rumble
instead tossing out Perfect, which then leads to Perfect losing
to Beefcake, which is Hogan's friend. So, in reality, is
the idea that fans wanted Perfect to win the Royal
Rumble and not Hull Cogan? Or is this just people
looking too deep into things because Hogan is royal. Rumble

(28:49):
isn't something like way you get a championship match. Hogan's
the world champion. We're in the height of hul Hogan.
We're in the whole you know, Holkamania. Like it's stupid
to think anyone else would win besides Hogan at this
point in time.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, but like you said, it wasn't like there's so
much on the line and something like that. But it's
a great opportunity to put one of your your people over.
And and Kurt I don't remember what he entered and
I think he was in there for a long time.
Wasn't there was I can't remember. He was number entered

(29:27):
number yeah, yeah, okay, so it was later. Yeah, but
it was an opportunity I think to put him over
more and and uh, for whatever reason, you know, the
Hulkster has to win it. I don't know if that

(29:50):
if he squatched that idea, because originally they were going
to put Kurt over. I don't know, I really don't.
I don't know what what what what it came down
to with that, but you can rest assured that he'd
Hulk would have had to write to sign off on
it for it to happen. So to say that he
didn't have influence and it was ala Vince's decision, I

(30:12):
doubt it.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Well, it's crazy because they do have the face to
face with Warrior and Hogan in the match, and then Warrior,
you know, gets he's out, he gets out of the
tossed out of the Royal Rumble, and then Hogan could
have probably done the same thing.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
We could have just kept equal footing.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I'm just thinking politics wise, Hulk Hogan's like, well,
if I'm gonna lose it WrestleMania, I'm winning here, folks,
because I'm gonna go in super strong. And so when
this just this me spitball that, I'm thinking Hogan, Hogan's
gonna win because it's Hogan's time, it's Hogan's era. He
can say whatever he wants and Vince's like, let's do it.
And so I can imagine that happening here. So that's

(30:47):
my exhibit a here with Hogan, and.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
You see that all the time. I think that that
was you know, kind of a rot disease with you know,
like WCW. You had a few guys at the top there,
they just kept, you know, putting themselves over and that
can be that can hurt you. And I think in
some cases like this that you know, having so much

(31:13):
influence in a company can hurt as far as you
you know, getting other people established and it's I don't
think it's good for business and you get spread the wealth.
But you know, even at this point in time, I
know that you know, Vince is looking, you know, we've
got to spread this out. You know, he keeps trying

(31:34):
to find people that are going to be able to
carry the load and keep you know, these arenas with
people within the seats and they're running a lot of
shows and and Holp can't be everywhere, and you know,
so I think that you know, as far as the

(31:55):
business sense here, you've got to be careful when when
somebody has that much influence. But at the same time,
you can't piss him off either. So I think it
was kind of a fine fine line that that Vince
had to walk, as you had to keep the guy
in the yellow tights happy and at the same time

(32:17):
try and grow with the roster where you've got more
guys that can appear at the top of the car.
So it was you know, it was a dance I
think for him, make a really good point, try and
keep everybody happy.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's I never even thought of that way, because the
heat you have Warrior being the next guy coming up.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
All right, we're gonna be Hogan rustling ye six.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right, but remember they're not sure of him either. Yes too,
you know, and so.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
And then so try it with Savage a year ago.
But they had to have Hogan next to him.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Every time Hogan would walk away to go do a
movie or something, business would dip. So then Vince would
call Hogan, Hey, we're gonna car you come back. Business
goes up. So in reality, Hogan's very smart man. Let's
keep everyone down here and I stay up here. Every
time I leave, these people try to level up, but
they can't. So you call me back and I get
more money and I get more opportunities.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Very smart business plan for him.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
They would step away, you know, how can I miss
you if you if you're still here? So yeah, it
worked out great, and it did for a while. I
mean those years there, they you know, Terry knew it.
Terry knew their Fiel's got a ring, you know, he
just knew. And I can go do whatever I want
to do and if even if if it works out tremendous,

(33:30):
that's awesome. But if it doesn't, I mean, this is
always here. They're going to need me, and then I
can carve out a time where I go back and
then you know, I got other things going on here
and they need me even more. And how many times
he came back over and what he had to do,
you know, so it was a great business plan for

(33:51):
quite a while.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, it worked out for him, but you know, miss
Perfect does not win the nineteen ninety or Rumble. He
loses an undefeated streak at wrussell Mania six. But also
at that event, Warrior becomes world champion. That means he
has to give up the intercontinental title because it wasn't
title for a title for some strange reason.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
But Warrior then, really, which is it?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
They have a tournament, Mister Perfect wins the tournament to
become the intern Continental Champion, pinning Tito Santana in the finals.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Now why the hell do you have Perfect.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Loses undefeated streak to Beefcake to let him then win
a tournament to become Intercontinental champion.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, I all you can say is was that that
was some kind of make good. I don't know that.
You know, let we're gonna get Brutus the win and
hope everybody forgets it. So which didn't happen. But you know,
did anybody doubt that, you know, it was that Kurt

(34:51):
wasn't you know, didn't deserve to have a belt on him. No,
he made a great intercontinental champion, one of the best,
and so him doing that, it wasn't there was no question. Uh,
people like give it to him, you know. So I
think it that turned out really to be a blip
in a sense in his his his career because at

(35:16):
least at that time that you know, it was just
kind of one of those things. Yeah, it happened, but
you know, could five out of uh you know, uh,
five out of five times is how many times is
it is brute is going to go over? Uh, you
know it's not going to happen. So he got it.
He got the w just like Lanny with the Hulkster

(35:37):
whatever courage put that, put that in uh you know,
put it in the bank. But but yeah, I don't
think him dropped, you know, dropping that match to to
Brutus hurt his stature as far as you know, how
he was put on a card and and and the

(36:00):
in the statue that he would be as far as
did he deserve to be an intercontinental champion.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Well, it's more even crazier. Exhibit be here.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
While I feel like Hulk Congan's involved with this Beefcake
Perfect situation is because SummerSlam nineteen ninety, it's supposed to
be Mister Perfect defending the Intercontinent Championship against Brewster Barbara Beefcake.
He's supposed to win, but he gets in a paarasailing accident,
which then replaces Beefcake with Texas Tornado. Texas Tornado beats
mister Perfect at SummerSlam nineteen ninety for the Intercontinental Championship.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
So you're telling me, maybe that it.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Was all a plan to have Beefcake beat Peep Perfect,
to have Perfect get the intercontinental title for Beefcake then
to be perfect.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Is that what we're all waiting for?

Speaker 1 (36:42):
You? Yeah? So you think that, yeah maybe, But I
think we're getting way too like for psychics here as
far as them planning in you know, I believe at
the time, you know, this is where where Kirk was ailing.
I mean, his back was in really bad shape. He

(37:03):
was going to have to take some time off, and
so that's why this was going to happen. So maybe
they're thinking, Okay, we've got to make it legit somehow.
We can't just all of a sudden have Brutus come
out of note and then beat him and get the belt.
So you know, that could have been part of the

(37:25):
psychology of that, that they were laying the tracks prior
to that. But yeah, that's that's that's what was supposed
to happen. And as you know, as you mentioned that
Brutus had that horrific parasailing accident. Really he's lucky he

(37:45):
didn't die, that's how bad it was. I mean, you know,
I remember Terry Holkster talking about how he you know,
he couldn't breathe because his whole face had collapsed, and
he like put his fingers in his mouth to try
and clear his to give him an air hole, you know,

(38:07):
like you get to get oxygen. So, I mean, it
was the fact that he ever even came back is
to me, it's still astounding. If you ever seen those
X rays of the titanium whatever in his face, I mean,
his entire face was really just reconstructed. But yeah, that's
unfortunate because you know, that was the moment that was

(38:31):
the peak of Brutus's career. That would have been, you know,
the absolute peak of his career. But unfortunately that's what happened,
and you know, things changed and they didn't miss a beat.
You know, that's that's just how it worked that you
and I think it was better.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I love the Texas Tornado, so I have no problems
with him beating perfect here at nineteen ninety. Of course
perfect does eventually beat him again, becoming a two time
in your Curtal.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Chance and that was, yeah, that was that was on
carry because he wasn't able to what he needed to
do as the Intercottinental champion. That's why that was short lived.
But he could have had a tremendous run. They really, really,
they really liked him. They really wanted him to do

(39:25):
well there.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
I thought he did well on television, but obviously I don't.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
We did a whole episode about what he was like
backstage versus how he was in front of the camera,
and I'll be honest, like in front of the camera,
I didn't know. I didn't see test Tonado ever suffering
or look bad or bad performance but we did a
whole episode about him for an hour. You know, we
talked about everything that happens backstage, and a lot more
goes into the Texas Tornado story than we're going to

(39:52):
elaborate on now, because you know this is a lot.
So if we want check that out, you go to
our YouTube channel and check it out, because we did
a whole hour on Texas Tornado. Beating Perfect in this
whole run. But Perfect to me at this time the
Internet Continental title. We have seen it happen over the years.
Macho Man gets it, he becomes world champion. Ultonate Warrior
gets it, he becomes world champion. Mister Perfect gets it.

(40:15):
He does not become world champion. Why do you feel
I know we're in the Hogan era, we're in good
guy territory, so good guys are always your champion. But
why do you think that out of everybody, even million
dollar man, like, why didn't Perfect get that world title?

Speaker 3 (40:31):
What is missing from that equation?

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Well that, I mean that is a that's a really great,
great question because he did have it all. Uh, you know,
few could generate the heat that he could generate. A
few sold like he did. He few could move like
he did in the ring. I mean he did, he
had it all. But there's always these factors that uh,

(41:00):
you know, for whatever reason that either they think they
don't need it, you know, Ted was one of those people.
I think that they felt, you know, the guy sells
for us, no matter what might as we get you know,
somebody else in there that can if that we're going
to do that that needs a belt to make it,
you know, optimize it, or that there was just something

(41:24):
that Vince felt like he just didn't have it, you know,
that that he needs to be in. But I that
Kurt deserved that, and I think he would have made
a great champion. I really do. I think that. Uh
you look at when he was with you know, uh

(41:45):
A w A, and he became their their champion, and
as Larry says, you know, I never I never became champion.
He Nick Bockwickle, who had been you know, the you know,
the braining champion forever seemed and uh, you know, Kurt

(42:06):
stepped right into that role and was was tremendous. And
here you are road now and he is way beyond
that and the way he carried himself and uh and
you put him up against anybody didn't matter their size
or what they did. You felt like mister perfect could
beat that guy. So whatever that final discussion was, whatever

(42:31):
it was, but they felt that he didn't he didn't
have it, He didn't have what they needed him to
have because at that point, you know, you know, Kurt
was still very dependable. I don't remember hearing of any
you know, issues that that were keeping him or he
wasn't showing up or something like that. That was never

(42:52):
the case with him then. I don't know later on,
but you know, it was at you know, a point
where he would have been a great champion. Now as
far as the other physical things that were starting to
happen with him, that might have had something to do
with it too, because as we know, uh he had

(43:15):
horrible back issues and would eventually step outs and UH
had a Lloyd's of London insurance policy that paid him
for a while, UH until then it's needed him again
and persuaded him to uh to come back. But yeah,
so you know, that's a that's a that's a great

(43:36):
question that but I always felt, from my viewpoint, I
thought he had it all and I thought he would
have been a great champion.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Agreed, I I just think it was good.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Guys are champions here, so that's what we're gonna We're
gonna do, not until we're flare and even like Yokozuna
were suddenly bad guy as your world champions for a
brief period of time.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
But yeah, he didn't.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
He didn't have it, and it's he's still on that
list of people. You're like, well, why didn't he get it?
Why didn't happen?

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Though?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
But as I will always praise this event, he is
the team captain Sava series nineteen ninety it's missed a
perfect and all three members of Demolition Versus Warrior Leedio
Doom Texas Tornado Greatest Survivor series ever. I will say
it until the end of time. Even Gobbly Cooker, he
was there, and he still will be praised and loved

(44:25):
and forever might have especially around Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
We live out cookies and milk for the Gobbly Cooker
on Thanksgiving Eve.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
That's what we do in my house. That's what I
hope you do the same thing. If you don't, no, no, wow,
all right, we just eat the turkey, all right, fine,
Inner Connlan champion though when he is Icy Champion as
Bobby Heenon and as his manager.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
And we have seen these videos all day long.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Newer fans are still baffled when Perfect is standing on
the second rope and he throws a towel without Bobby
looking and Bobby just catches it in mid air. And
you see this when he's walking to the ring every
time they hit this. Do you did Kurt ever tell
you what it was like to work with Bobby heen him,
because I imagine it's like working with the greatest comedian
of all time.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah. And and they played really well off each other,
and they were, you know, always just joking around. They were. Yeah,
they were a great pair together. Uh and uh you know, uh,
Bobby was a river, but he was a he was
a you know, it was more like you know, jokes

(45:29):
or stuff. He would say. Kurt was where you know,
he actually did stop people. But they were they were
you know, naturals together they you know, and and genuinely
loved being around each other. Uh and Uh So when
they the two of them together were was like you said,

(45:49):
it was in sync. The fact that you know, he
throw the towel and Bobby would just snatch it, you know. Uh,
wouldn't even look. And and you know when you're there
and that's saying and you know a lot of these
you know when you're with each other a lot, uh,
and you do these things and it seems like right
on the spot like that. Well that that probably you

(46:11):
know when at that point when you're seeing complete you know,
disregard of any looking or they've done that a hundred times.
So uh, it's great that it comes off that way,
but it's all been very rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed,
whether it was a real one or whatever, but that

(46:31):
they've done that. You know, the same thing with Kurt
with the gump. You know it's bepenning a boom, you know,
batting it off or what he was doing. You know
that that's through just repetition, reps one half, you know,
over and over and over again. And that was just
one of the things. I mean, you see that in
the ring all the time. You always wonder like how
do these guys just go in there? They don't know

(46:53):
what exactly they're gonna know because they've done it so
many times. It's when somebody grabs your wrists, you know
what you're what you're gonna go from there, whatever you're
gonna do, you know. So it's just that that they're
professionals and when you do something like that at that level,

(47:14):
you're really good at it.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
And they're so in synct though too.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
And so when you're part of the Heenan family, you
have Boby Heenon always praising you forever, and the Heenen
family has so many great members from the past, the
President of the future. But mister Perfect gets in a
storyline with the Big Boss Man heading into Restmenia seven
because Heenan he's making fun of Big Bossman's mother on
commentary over and over and over again. But then it

(47:41):
gets a little controversial because we have a moment where
police brutality is happening in the real world in media
and mister Perfect taking on the Big Boss Man as
a police officer.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
I believe this is Rodney King around this time.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
So on your backstage interviewing and Perfect Aby heena or
making like police beat down jokes about people be you
like you think that guy the video came and the
Bush is gonna be hurt, Like We're gonna hurt you tonight,
boss Man, Like holy shit, and we already have a
rocky sympathizer shit going on too, Like, I don't. I

(48:15):
didn't put this in the notes, but in reality, do
you remember any of this and how heavy it was?

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah? And uh, And that's the thing when you're you know,
a lot of these storylines are walk the line of reality.
That's that's how you make it work, that's how you
get it over. But you also have to be careful
about how far you push it or how insensitive in
a sense you go, you know and uh, yeah, sometimes

(48:45):
you I don't think that people you know, like would
measure in a sense where we were, and I do.
I do remember, you know, doing some of those and
going man, you know, but we didn't have the immediate
feedback like we have today, and so a lot of it,
to me, would go out into the ether, you know,

(49:07):
it would just it wasn't people were I mean, what
was somebody going to do? Write a letter? You know.
That's kind of the way it worked that way. We
didn't have a phone line. People could come call and say,
I can't believe you guys did that. But it was
just a it was just a general feeling and you
had to go by that because you didn't get that
kind of feedback as to say, you know, if you

(49:28):
do something, I mean, before you're off the air, you
already could get feedback of people saying I can't believe that,
or you know it worked, you know, and you had that.
You know. These guys of course have a natural sense.
That's who they are. They're there, so they're gifted psychologists.
As I've said before, they know how to people, how

(49:49):
to get reaction for people, and they know how, you know,
how they're going to react in a lot of this.
But sometimes when you do it's you know, the whole
the Iraqi anthvisor and or you get into the terrorism
stuff as we saw, it's a it's very it's it's
a real it's a minefield and you have to be

(50:12):
really careful. And I remember back then, yeah, to me
that that was kind of pushing it, and like I said,
I didn't but we didn't get that kind of feet back.
So I never knew. I don't know how that reaction.
You'd see it in the when you went to the Arenas,
but that was just really you know, generated in heat
and you're like, awesome, you didn't know that these people

(50:33):
really like were thinking, you know, you went too far
with that, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Yeah, I just remember Bobby making those Rodney King jokes.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Oh my lord, dude, police brutality, And you know, it's
changed over the years obviously how you perspect looked at
these things. But in ninety one, when you're saying that,
and it's so fresh in the news, it's so fresh
in media that police are beating down a man and
someone in the bush's videotaping with a cam corder and
blow it just it changed the world for a lot

(51:01):
of different reasons. But bringing it up into a storyline
of the intercondinal title at WrestleMania seven, when you already
have alleged bomb threats over an Iraqi sympathizer character man,
you're hitting, you're hitting too many checkbox here of how
many times can we piss somebody off at one event?
And I feel like that might have gone too far though,
But that's that's how I felt about that. He beat

(51:22):
Boss Man, doesn't get the intercondinental title. We go to
Summer Slam ninety one, so when missed a perfect back,
he cannot continue any longer.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
He has to step away from the ring.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
He fights Brett Hart in maybe the second greatest Summer
Slam match of all time.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
The other one would be Brett Hart versus Bulldog.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Mister Perfect goes into a match knowing he needs surgery,
knowing he has bulging discs.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Did you speak with him? Were you aware of how
injured he was heading into this?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Well, didn't speak to him about it was something you know,
you never really would, you know. It's kind of a
I don't know JINX thing or something like that. You
never talked to anybody was you know, dealing with something
an injury especially that was going to that was impacting
their performance, their career. But you could see how, you know,

(52:12):
what what he was experiencing just by the way he moved.
And I've said this before that I've always been just
astounded when I look back at some of these matches
and uh, I think back to when my dog's parking,
Uh I don't hear. Yeah, I think back to to

(52:36):
looking at some of these guys in the ring during
these matches and going, you know, and knowing what they
look like and were moving like before they went out there,
and then you see what they do and it's they're
not uh, you know, not doing certain moves. They're not
moving a certain way not to do they it's full
out when they're out there. Uh, Dynamite Kid was the

(52:58):
same way that you know that you knew that that
guy was destroyed and he was going out there. You
never know when they're out there in the ring. And
you look at that match with Brett, and you know,
Kurt's doing all these bridges and snap suplexes and and
you've got to be thinking every time, can you imagine
every time he's doing that? And then you know Brett

(53:22):
blocks in the sharpshooter and it's just amazing that you
look at him and how he performed. It's just amazing
to me that these guys that they would do it
and it was one hundred percent went out there one

(53:45):
hundred percent, and you know maybe he was forty percent
you know or wherever. You can't even imagine what he
was going through. And pain is is a great equalizer
as far as like you know, you can have that
thought in your brain, I'm going to do something if
your but if your body is with you know, pain
is supposed to stop you from doing that. And watch

(54:06):
that match, you know, maybe maybe you saw something in it.
I didn't I and I I loved seeing the comments
and sometimes that people say, well, you know, I can't
believe it, and he didn't do this or he didn't
do that. You're like, please give me if you knew that?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
What what?

Speaker 1 (54:27):
What a mess his back was then? And uh and
him going out there and just giving it his all,
and then when he comes back, God, I mean, could
you know probably wanted to crawl. I don't think that
you can't. It didn't help his uh, his physical condition.

(54:49):
So that's what makes that match to men more amazing
Steve is what what condition he was in? And then
he pulled that performance off. I agree?

Speaker 3 (55:01):
I know, I agree.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
When you are needing surgery and you go out there
and every step you take you're wincing, and you can
see in his face it's like he was butting down
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
No, he was walking. He's hurts, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
You know like he's you know, people look at he's
selling or something. You know, I don't think I had
so much that day.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
No, when you need a back surgery, like this difference
between like oh I hurt my hand, I'll just tape
it up and go out there. No, your back, you know,
kind of getting your legs going kind of getting your
whole body going.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
He's got the center of your whole movement and.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
You getting slammed over and over on the thing that
you need surgery on.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Yeah, imagine I mean everybody, I would. You know most
people have had their back go out at some point
in your life. Remember what that was like. That is
the center of all your mobility, everything from your legs,
your arms, your every time you twist everything, and that
is it. Imagine that that is uh, just on fire

(55:58):
and every movement and then you're doing that one of
the best matches, just trying to get off the couch.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
No try, Like I think I have said before, when
I sleep on my arm wrong and it hurts, and
he's like, oh, I have bulging discs.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I need a back surgery.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
But let's go out and have one of the best
matches of my career, which I honestly think it is.
Eve even Burt Hart said that, you know, he told Kurt, hey, man, like,
you know, I know you're hurt.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
You don't have to do this.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
And Kurt told him, like, no, I'm going out there
because you deserve this and you've worked your ass off,
and if I don't go out there and you beat
me and you beat somebody else, Like, who cares if
you beat Skinner? I love Skinner, but who cares if
you beat Skinner for the Intercoilal title. No, you're gonna
beat the guy who's had the title for the past
eight months. So let's go out there and do it.

(56:44):
And and again they stole the show. They had an
amazing match. And that's when we also had missed up
perfect with Coach, his other manager, his last manager, Coach.
And it's a physical man. Who think of a gym
teacher when you were a kid. That is what Coach
looks like. The visor on the big glasses, the sweatsuit,
the whistle before Billo Fonso used it every single match

(57:06):
in ECW. What why go from genius to Bobby Heenan
to Coach.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
That's another one. I don't have any idea need him.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Jamison. We shouldna give him Jamison instead of Coach.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Well, but yeah, it made no sense that that and
you know the fact it was just so short lived.
I think everyone realized it, you know shortly after.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Let's just race that in people's brains, like put up
the men in black, race your brain. Boom, it's gone.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Oh all right, moving on, mister Perfect though does commentary
from this point on, He's going to do commentary until
Rick Flair comes in with Bobby Heenan, eventually becoming Rick
Flair is executive consultant involved in every damn Rick Flair storyline,
from winning the world title Aerro Rumble ninety to apparently
taking going to post naked photos of Miss Elizabeth up

(58:05):
in the big screen at WrestleMania eight, even leading to
Summer Slam ninety to where it's going to be what
corners mister Perfect?

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Then?

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Is it Ultimate Warrior or is it the macho Man?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Where did you land on mister Perfect being on commentary
and then being an executive consultant?

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
But where you worked with him as a wrestler, What
was it like working with him as a broadcast journalist?

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Yeah, well it was cool because he came to the
studio more often and so it got to spend more time.
But yeah, well it was out of necessity. He couldn't,
you know, he couldn't work, and so you know, I
think that was that was I always like that aspect

(58:52):
of it, that Vince would you know, bring, bring, keep
the guys around, and that was kind of the way
you could do it keep them involved, and it was
also you know, selfishly for Vincent's sense that they keep
them near and then at some point when I need him,
I can put them back into you know, action, in

(59:12):
which we saw with Randy. Randy never really never wanted
to be a commentator, but you know, it was it's
made it attractive in a sense as far as the
money went. And then he ended up being whenever they
had an issue with somebody, whoever, Brandy would you know,
pop in take care of it. And so that was

(59:33):
that was part of it. But I don't think that
Kurt really ever enjoyed it, you know, immensely. I mean
I think he you know, it was it was a
good gig, but he always wanted to be in the ring,
and I think it was really difficult for him during
that period of time, even though he was getting well
paid for you know, he had that insurance policy the

(59:56):
Lloyd's of London that you know, he was so he
didn't have to work. But you know, he loved being
around the business. That was just his life. It was
with a lot of these guys and uh so it
was it gave him more chance, you know he could
get home more, but I think that when it came

(01:00:18):
down to it, he he wanted to get back in
the ring, and I think that when the opportunity came up,
and uh, you know, maybe he wasn't ready at the time,
but it was out of necessity that you know that,
and Vince made it worthwhile, So, you know, I think

(01:00:40):
it was just it was it was great to keep him,
keep him there. I think that that that was one
of the best aspects of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, Like I've watched the mentioned a thousand times. I
watched all the Superstars from ninety two on Peacock recently,
and he's on commentary the whole time, the whole year,
and he's very good with Vince McMahon. Yeah, he was
a perfect pair. And that's where I started noticing, I'll
try to do it. I sort of not really, but
he was perfect at throwing it in the sky and

(01:01:08):
catching it with Vince. And then he made Rick Flair
more of a threat because Bobby Heenan was a goofball
and a weasel cost him sometimes you'd see him do
funny things, mister perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
We knew who he was, we knew what a killer
he could be.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
In the rink.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
So having him with Rick Flair really I think added
more heat and more anger towards Ric Flair, because now
Flay doesn't just have Bobby Heenen as a goofball manager.
He's got a like a killer mister Perfect as his
executive consultant. They have a stable, a faction growing or
just around Rick Flair. I really enjoyed it because I kept,

(01:01:43):
like you said, it kept Rick mister Perfect in the game,
but it also kept him on air. But when they
did need him, so Harvisarius ninety two, they came calling
because we did a whole episode about it. Is Warrior
gets fired, he's out, Well, we need someone to take
his place. Mister Perfect gets the call. Now, I don't
know how much mister Prefect's being paid of his insurance policy,

(01:02:04):
but I can imagine it's a lot. So do you
think you don't have the problem of the answer, But
do you think he was getting paid more money to
be an active wrestler or to sit at home collecting
a big ass payday doing nothing except commentary.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Well, I've heard different amounts. I think I heard once
I was like three hundred thousand dollars or something. I
don't know, but I think that it was it was
enough he didn't have to work. But you know, those
guys at the time, especially at Kurt's level, they could,
you know, they could bring home half a million dollars

(01:02:40):
or more so. But at the same time, you think, well,
but then I don't have to get my body beaten
up every night, you know, have that car wreck every night.
So you know, and and then he's getting paid more.
He's getting paid extra for doing the commentary stuff too.

(01:03:06):
I you know, I think probably at the time he
was probably faster going back in there than he wanted to.
But I think that, you know, Vince made it worthwhile.
And I don't know how that all got settled. I
don't know if Vince had to pay off the rest
of the the insurance policy or something, because if he's

(01:03:28):
going to go back in the ring, I'm sure Lloyd
to London is not going to be happy about paying him.
They're paying him basically not to wrestle anymore. So whatever
that deal was must have really been worth it to
Kurt for him to go back in, because he wasn't.
It certainly wasn't one hundred percent at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
No, And I've heard stories like Rick Rude being on
the same policy where when he came back into the
WWF in ninety seven ish, he couldn't take bumps because
the insurance company is like, so you're gonna work as
a wrestler.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
He's like no, no, no, no, no no no, Like
I'll do stuff, but I won't get I won't take bumps.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Like, so we're gonna pay you, and you're also gonna
get paid by them, but you're not gonna wrestle, like
and Rick Rude had an issue. That's why he couldn't
wrestle in WSW in to the later time because Eric
Brishof's like, I'm not paying off your insurance for you
to wrestle.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
It costs me more money to pay this off than
for you to actually wrestle.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Right, No, yeah, mister perfect only lasted about a year
in ringing the WWF from ninety three and he went
back on commentary in ninety four and they tried to
It's funny because on the Mister perfect Uh documentary they
try to suggest that him and Hunter Hurst Hemsley Triple
H were together forever. You're together for about like a
week maybe two, and then Kurt left for w CW

(01:04:48):
while on Raw they're airing old episodes of things that
were taped where mister Perfect turns heel or wild Man
Mark Mary joins up with Triple H and then he
goes off to w CW and eventually joins the nWo
like everybody who ever worked in the WWF, and he
enjoyed a nice run there for a while as just
Kurt Henning, but eventually he starts the rap Is Crap

(01:05:12):
where he becomes a Southern boy, red Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
What was there stable name?

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Something probably offensive, But apparently as time go on, people
would say he had the most fun being a rap
Is Crap Texas cowboy in WSW, that he was mister perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
I find that hard to believe.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Yeah, I find that hard to believe too, But Kurt
found fun wherever he went, so I'm sure that whatever
the ride was, he made it the best could possibly be.
And also at that point he wasn't mister Perfect or
the current headache we were used to seeing in the ring.

(01:05:51):
You know, everything had taken its toll by the time
he was down there, So I don't maybe just from
a standpoint of, you know, the character he had fun with,
but I can't imagine it was fun for him as
far as him not being able to do what he
was used to being able to do in the ring.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Before we wrap this whole mister Perfect episode, I want
to talk about ribs for a minute. One that I
thought was hilarious that I want to know if you
have any ones that no one's ever heard of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
But this one is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
In one match, mister Perfect brought a plastic eye dropper
bottle and squirted fluid around the ring. The wrestlers panicked
and someone shouted, who shit their pants? Apparently he had
a stink bomb in liquid form and he was spraying
it around the ring. That to me is hilarious because
you gotta kid, you gotta be in the ring selling
like I can't. Oh, I'm fighting you as you smell

(01:06:45):
like shit. But do you know any rip stories that
maybe that weren't so evil that we could talk about?

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Most of most of them were pretty evil.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
All right, let's do what he wanted to go to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
You know, I always thought like an extra bag just
for his rib stuff. You know, you mentioned the whole
stink bomb thing, and he had it was a you know,
stuff he bought. It was like a little dropper thing
with a you know it kind of drop things and
you could and he would you know, sprinkle it on
people as they walked by, and it made I think,

(01:07:18):
I don't know if it was morning missed or something.
It's just it was just smelled like crap. I mean,
like you thought somebody pooped their pants. And that was
just that was one of them that you know, if
somebody annoyed him or whatever, or he just wanted to
have a little rib you know, and it was it

(01:07:40):
lasted too, you know, it wasn't just that it would
be a few minutes. Uh. And I heard that he
had he did that on a couple on planes, you know,
a couple of times, and the whole you know what
that's like, I mean, and you're all breathing the same air.
So they weren't real happy with him. But then he
and he also, uh they they had would take locks

(01:08:05):
and and chain things, say whatever you had, you know,
like everybody was used to carry around those Halliburton briefcases,
and he would he would lock those two lock you
know lockers in the in the arena or uh. You know,
he just NonStop and you couldn't out rib him. And

(01:08:26):
most of the boys at some point would just you know,
cry foul or just throw in the towel like I
I'm done, please, you know, you know, they would try
and rib him back, and then he would come back
ten times worse. Where I think Tanaka Tanaka Pat Tanaka
is It talks about how he had a rental car

(01:08:50):
that he they got in because they had broken toothpicks
off in the locks of of Kurt's rental car, and
and so he he painted the headlights black on their
rental car. So they get in the car and they
can't uh you know, they're like, what the hell the

(01:09:11):
lights are on, but we can't see anything. And then
they figured, okay, they see painted, so they scrape that
off and then they go get in the car and
then they can't see through the windshields. This is fill
me something. And he'd taken motor oil and put it
on on the windshield, so you you know, you try
and get that off, you put the water on, it
makes it worse, and uh uh. The way he tells

(01:09:34):
the story is that so he has a brilliant idea
and had a gas can or something and put gas
on the windshield thinking it would cut through the oil
and and that perfect drives by and throws a match
and let's the car goes up. Now, I don't know,
you know, that's crazy to me. I never heard that one.
I just thought him telling the story but that. But

(01:09:57):
really it just there were no limits sometimes. And also
you know fecal matters that we say would show up
in people's bags and stuff. I mean, you didn't want
to be on a and and to him it wasn't
you know, he wasn't being evil to him, it was

(01:10:18):
just funny. It was just funny, just doing stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
But you know, uh, did he ever try to rip
mister Fuji?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Because I know you didn't. Mister Fuji was I supposedly
number one. I remember Alfred told me a story one
time that this guy that when they were in a
locker room and the guy had a pocket knife that
he kept playing with and it was annoying mister Fuji,
and he went over and he said, let me see

(01:10:49):
a knife, and he goes to sharp. He goes, yeah,
it's like a razor and he goes, oh really and
like slice the guy's chest open, like not deep, but
just like and then yeah, you're right, gave it back
to him, you know, like, yeah, you didn't, mister Fuji
could was just brutal. I heard other stories the stuff
that they would remember, the nair that's the hair remover

(01:11:13):
stuff I think it was called there and doing things
to people. So yeah, the Land of Ribs was was
intense where they would Marty Janeti said that he one
time Kurt handcuffed his Halliburton to a hotel drawer and

(01:11:35):
they had to catch a flight, so Marty, Marty took
the whole drawer out. He couldn't get it off and
had to go through. He says, he went through you know,
secure and they ended up getting bumped from the flight.
So it kind of went back on on the Kurt.
But you know, they those guys, you know, you're on

(01:11:56):
the road for that long and you're bored out of
your mind, and that's how they entertained themselves by doing
this stuff. And Kurt was king. Uh. Like I said,
he did a little stuff to me. I didn't, thank God,
but you know, I remember I told you the story
when when I did that pay per view with a
water gun on my shoulder, he had come over and
put his arm on me, his arm around me, and

(01:12:17):
put a big water gum on my shoulder and went
through the entire pay per view with wat of gum
on my on my shoulder. Nobody said me so uh
that that was just some of the little things. You know.
I'd do an interview in one of those group interviews
and he would step on my foot and I would
be trying to get over to somebody to with a microphone.

(01:12:37):
And that's just that was just Kurt and and uh
and and genuinely funny too. I mean, you know, he
was as certainly as funny as Bobby, and the two
of them together was it was another It was a
comedy team too. So you know, bottom line, he just
loved to have a good time. He really did. And
and uh, it's just I'm I'm I'm glad that that

(01:13:02):
I didn't see those final years and because I would
have hated to see that. And it's tragic the way
we lost them. But you know, drug use and it
was is a big part of the industry was then.

(01:13:25):
Uh so that he was a statistic because of it,
and those guys. We talked about the road that these
guys were on and you had something get you up,
had something to get you to the gym and keep
you in shape, and then go to an alcohol and
then put something Helsey in or something so you could sleep.

(01:13:49):
It was just a horrible cycle. And you know, got
a hold of these a lot of these guys and
they didn't get out of that hole. Yeah, just terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
He died February tenth, two thousand and three. He was
forty four. There was six weeks away from turning forty five.
Determined cocaine and you know, steroids and painkillers was the
reason of his death. So it's just sad to see
that a lot a lot of wrestlers, especially even from

(01:14:21):
the Golden era we've talked about before, none of them
really die of It's hard to find a lot of
people who die of old age from the Golden era, and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Well old age's sixties, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Unfortunately, like forty four years old.

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
And he had a son, you know, multiple children by
Curtis Axel, Michael mcgilli, Cutty, Joe Henning, all the different names, and.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
He's a producer now on the WWE.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
So that's great that they can carry the lineage of
his family along the way. But it was strange when
they brought in his son and They didn't name him
Joe Henning. They named him Michael McGillicuddy. That was his
wrestler's name, and then eventually he got to change it
to Curtis Axel. At least they got to get it
a little close because the you know Curtis Kurt Axel,

(01:15:11):
you know the grandfather.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
So it's nice to see the lineage carried on there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
But it was really strange when you bring in a
second generation or a third generation wrestler, they don't use
the last name, but.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Some yet to, some don't get to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Before we wrap this up, though, like, what what are
your thoughts on mister We did a whole hour and
a half here about mister Perfect, talked about the highs,
the lows, the good times, bad times. But what when
we shut this off, what do you want people to
think about mister Perfect? And Kurt Handing as a person,
not the wrestler, the person.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Well, and I think we should remember him as a
wrestler too, But yeah, he was you know Kurt. Everybody
that that knew him would say and I've never really
heard people say anything, you know, bad about him, except
that some of his ribs world a little far. But
he was just a fun loving guy. You know, he

(01:16:03):
just he'd loved to laugh. He had a lot of
guys that he was very loyal to, you know, that
whole gang from Robinsdale. You know, you hear you know,
Barry Darco talks about him to this day fondly, and
you know a lot of these guys and uh, he
he was just family with what he was all about.

(01:16:26):
I credit where he came from. And if anybody's ever
met Larry Hendrick, you know that that you know where
those values and the way he you know, conducted himself
and how how much he loved the business and respected
it and uh, you know, he's truly one of those

(01:16:46):
old school guys and loved the business, just loved the business.
It was in his soul. And uh, you know all
the interactions I had with him, you know, we're great.
I mean he was always, uh you know, so encouraging
and you know so I think that anybody that knew

(01:17:09):
Kurt loved them and it's tragic the way it all
ended up. And you hear, you know some of these
people that talk to this day, And I saw something
the other day from Wade Box talking to me, well
that he he wished that that Kurt had called him
and he and he goes and I where I feel

(01:17:29):
to this day, maybe I could have done something, And
so you know, it's it's just it's it's a tragedy
the way in forty four, you know, like wow, if
he could have just gotten through it, you know, and
on the other side, so as we always feel it
and and and then you know, your life, you know,

(01:17:50):
get healthy again. But you have to get away from
the business. Uh, he would have had to, and especially
at that time. So and I think overall though, you
also have to credit for what he did for the business.
He kept that old school alive during the time that
he was. He was here, and he was a great

(01:18:13):
He was just tremendous. He was one of the you know,
among the top ever and people I'm sure like Brett
Hartt will tell you, and others that spent a lot
of time in the ring with him, we'll say that
he definitely was one of the best all the way around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
And in two thousand and two he did come back
into the ww F eighth time at the Royal Rumbold.
When his music hit the crowd went crazy and he
was around for a few months. After that, but obviously
things happened. But one last rib story I want to
bring up is he went to Road Warrior Animals house
for a Christmas party. He went upstairs, found a little

(01:18:51):
way you're gonna wrap it up stairs. Yeah, he found
a toilet. He took a giant shit in it. An
animal thought it was his son. He was so proud
to show off the poop. Everybody that look.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
At my son pooped in the body. It was just
a giant mister perfect turn. It was a perfect poop.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Yeah, and that's how we wrap it up here like
a proud father. Look at this. Look at this, my boy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
It's a giant mister Perfect turd. And that's how we
wrap it up here, folks. No, not you know, not
the sadness the poop stories about mister Perfect. But again,
thank you everyone for enjoying us talking about the golden
era of the WWE. Mister Perfect with today's topic, but
check out the past. We talked about text Tornado, the
Heart Foundation, the British Bulldogs, Hogan Versus Warriors, Savage, so

(01:19:40):
many other people. But thank you again, Shaw Money for
sharing your passionate stories today and the golden era. I'm
see fall he Shah mouey, have a wonderful day and
we'll see you next time.

Speaker 3 (01:19:50):
Bye bye