Saturday Night’s Main Event Secrets: Hacksaw Duggan & Andre the Giant Angle PRIME TIME VAULT

Fire up the podcast machine for another classic PrimeTme episode as Hacksaw Jim Duggan and Sean Mooney take fans back to the legendary era of Saturday Night’s Main Event.
The two revisit iconic episodes, unforgettable moments, and one of the most shocking angles in the show’s history—when Hacksaw Jim Duggan stunned the wrestling world by knocking out Andre the Giant with his trademark 2×4.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a prime time with Sean Mooney production. Let's
get to our main event.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
There's the teas, because you know what this week, Jim,
I want to talk about Saturday Night's main event. You
played a bigger role in these episodes than I did.
I had a chance to do interviews for a bunch
of the shows, but I wanted to talk about this
week because I believe Saturday Night's Main Event was a major,

(00:25):
major part of making the WWF at the time what
it became, launching it into the stratosphere, making it a
mainstream form of entertainment, whatever you want to call it,
but it really was, and it was a tremendous rating
success for the NBC network during its heyday. The very

(00:47):
first airing took place on May tenth, nineteen eighty five,
on Long Island, New York, at Nassau Coliseum.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
It drew eighty three hundred people.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Okay, but when I want to talk about it, and
if you know, you hear about ratings all the time,
you know, they talk about raw and the ratings they get,
and they're saying, you know, they're getting threes now, and
a lot of people like, what the heck does that mean? Well,
What that means is is that it of all the
capable television households. That means they have television household working

(01:21):
televisions in their home and they tune in. If let's
say it's a three share, that means that three percent
of the of all the television sets, all the people
that are watching television are watching that program. Okay, So
if you talk about what happened back then, okay, there
would be.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thirty Okay, so let's just talk about the first one. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
The first one that took place I told you on
May tenth, drew an eight point eight share. That meant
eight percent, almost nine percent of the viewing audience watched
the show. That even then was gigantic because if you
think about it, Jim wrestling had not been on over
the air broadcast television. We're not talking about cable, which

(02:06):
was kind of you know, and it was growing and
it's infancy at that time. But to draw that on
a network, they hadn't seen wrestling over the air on
broadcast television since the fifties. So I don't know if
you felt it at the time, but you do you
remember thinking back, you know, how big that was, like
what it was becoming.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, I think anybody realized Saturday Night main Event that
was something extra extra special. And of course, you know,
one of the top NBC producers there, Dick Emersol, came
in and produce those shows that the the Slammy Awards.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
I mean, it just.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Took it to a whole different level and took it
mainstream even you know, I think it was pretty good
mainstream already because the regular ratings on the regular shows
were way up there, right, I mean, that just opened
it up to a whole new group of folks that
weren't into wrestling, that would never watch the show. Was Hey,
Saturday Night main event kind of boom, And I think

(03:03):
that opened up a new group of folks to are
to the product.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, I sure did.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
And then over the you know that the Saturday Night
Main Events would air from nineteen eighty five to nineteen
ninety two. Okay, during that time there would be thirty
six episodes. And what happened was is that you know
Saturday Night Live, which was huge. You remember Saturday Night
Live and you know, in heyday and this was after
you know, the the early you know, Chevy Chase and Belushi,

(03:30):
but there was Joe Episcopo, and there was you know,
Eddie Murphy, and it was still a big show. And
what happens is they'd go on like hiatus, they wouldn't
air every single week. And what happened was the WWF
would do would fill in these programs thanks to Dick Eversaw.
As I mentioned, there's thirty six thirty six episodes, thirty

(03:50):
four between or thirty two rather between nineteen eighty five.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
And ninety two.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Now, the most successful show aired on March fourteenth, nineteen
eighty seven, and it drew an eleven point six rating,
which to this day remains the highest rating any show
has ever done in that time slot. Now, I don't
know if you know this is all updated but that,
but the point is it was gigantic.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, As I mentioned, that.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Meant, you know, the eleven like that meant almost twelve
percent of the viewing audience were watching that program. And
it was a big deal, as I mentioned, because it
was hadn't been seen since the fifties. Now, as Donald
Trump would say, this was huge. And you mentioned Dick
Ever saw. Okay, Now, a lot of people don't know
who Dick Ever Saw was.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Maybe they've heard the name.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
But he was a big part of Saturday Night Live,
you know, and it was very influential in making you know,
Eddie Murphy and Joe Piscopal major stars in those you know,
those Saturday Night Live that that area. Also, do you
remember mc millan and Wife Jim, you remember that show?

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, sure of course. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
I did some stuff with Susan Saint James there you go. Well, yeah,
special Olympics. Yeah, and she was I'm telling you she
was a major crutch of mine. I thought she was awesome.
She was at that show McMillan and Wife. Well, she
is married to Dick Eversall, which is another reason.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Is like a guy who he always Hatedsol.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Then was with me.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
But in nineteen eighty three Eversall started this company called
No Sleep Productions, and it was this independent production company
that also they created He created Friday Night Videos and
then later with Bob Costas. I don't remember that show,
but anyway, he was huge at the time. But he
in nineteen eighty five he had a falling out with

(05:39):
the folks at SNL and he didn't know what the
heck he was going to do from that point, but
he had seen do you remember the MTV they had
these MTV specials WWS specials. This is when Cindy Lauper
and Loue Albano and all. And they had two specials
on MTV of all things, which is a very which

(06:01):
was kind of amazing because you know, Cable, as I mentioned,
was in.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Its infancy, so TV was a hot show.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
It was, but it was, but it was part of,
you know, this cable explosion that was starting. People were
catching on, Like when the network's first heard about cable,
they're like, well, it's not gonna last because we're the
big four, We're the Big three, you know, like it's
not well who owns who owns the networks? Now, Comcast, Cox,
all these are you know, morphed into other things.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
They all own them.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
But anyway, in nineteen eighty four, July twenty third, they
had the Brawl to End it All in New York City. Jim,
that show on cable at the time, got a nine share, okay.
And then there was another one on February eighteenth, nineteen
eighty five, the War.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
To Settle the Score.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
And these were all at Madison Square Garden, so that
that was gigantic and ever saw saw this so he
was like, whoa, this is wrestling, And I know he
was kind of a fan, but it was he looked
at more things like how do I I get ratings?
That's what he That's basically what it came down to
was business. So he, you know, gets forms this alliance

(07:08):
with Vince McMahon. Obviously Vince saw the opportunity here and
Eversall sells us to the network because he shows them
the numbers. Well, then they come off with that first
show and they get that eight point point eight share.
That was That was gigantic and that's what started it all.
So you know, you think about how these things came

(07:31):
to be. Eversall had a major role, And I'm gonna
I want to talk about how Vince and ever saw
and you know Vince very well, I mean at least
seeing how he worked, right. He doesn't work well with
others in a sense when he's not the guy on
the shots, right, I mean you've seen.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
That he's the captain of the ship. You know what
you need. You can't have a group of guys making
a decision. You need a guy making decisions. But also Embersaw,
you know, he was instrumental in the Slammy Award. He
produced the Slammy Awards. And I think a little known
fact you probably know all about the Seawan. You're good
on all that kind of trivia stuff he bought, Like

(08:08):
I think it was Carly Simon's rights to find out
who she was singing about and that he's so vain song.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
You remember that at all?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought he'd probably beeh. But who
was it? It was? Uh, they did reveal that, right,
it was.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Oh, yeah, the guy he played Buggsy McGraw, a big
time movie star.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Oh, Warren Baty, Warren Baty. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
There's something else you wouldn't think.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
You never know that on any other podcast we cover stuff, Sean,
But I didn't make my appearance on Saturday Night made
event until nineteen ninety.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Jean handle all of those interviews, and also Jesse Ventura,
who was paired with Vince.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
They were the two announcers.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Jim, like I said, you played a big part. You
had some great matches on these Saturday Night main events.
Before we get to that though, and I mentioned Jesse.
Last week we talked about, you know, announced teams. We
talked about Bobby and Gorilla, and their unique pairing that
they had. For whatever reason, it worked. You know, I'll
be honest here and and prior to you know, hearing

(09:19):
Vince doing play by play, I never was a big
fan of it, and I know that's at the time.
I'm glad I didn't voice my opinion on that because
what did I know? But I always thought it was
just like so big and so over the top whatever.
But I thought with Jesse it worked really well. What
did you think of that pairing?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
I liked it because I thought Jesse really challenged Vince,
you know, more than most guys would. I think he
really pushed the envelope with Vince. And of course, you know,
I have three older sisters. They hate Jesse to this day.
I saw two of them over the week and they're like,
it wasn't just a job. He really hated you, Jimmy
tell was my sister.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
I get to Jimmy. You know, he really hated you.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Jimmy say the worst, horrible things about your eyes and everything.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
But didn't you.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
But he must have done a great job because they
knew the kind of business you're in, and you had
people talking bad about you.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Although yet well you know, every once in a while,
we have something really hitch homeboy, and Jesse really got.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
To my sisters.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
You know, yeah, you know it's as people say, yeah,
and I know, wrestling is wrestling, but this one time
I saw.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, that's right, right.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
But with with Jesse and Vince and the thing we
touched on this last week and said, I was talked about,
you know, one of the reasons that Bobby worked so
well with Gorilla. It wasn't just the fact that because
and it was unusual, because you know, the usual broadcast
team was your your pretty straight announcer guy who did
you know, called it down the middle of you know,

(10:48):
the play by play guy, and then you have a
baby face who put over all the faces and then
he would you know, put the boots to the heels.
But this was different because you know, of course Bobby
was the heel and you had that dynamic where Gorilla
Gorilla was this massive gorilla.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
I mean he take care of like like a fly. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, that wasn't the dynamic with Vince and Jesse. But
like you said, Jesse could get away with saying this stuff.
And I always wondering, like initially, if you know Vince
or just this guy shooting or what you know, because
but then I think he realized Jesus is working.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
You know, I never really quite understood it that.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
You know, they always say the best gimmick is of
half a shoot. Anyways, you know that it may be.
And I think Vince liked that. I think Vince not
only in announcing on camera, but also back behind the
behind the scenes, he liked guys that challenged him. He
liked Jesse give him a hard time on the mic,
He liked Warrior giving him a hard time at the

(11:54):
you know what, WrestleMania, not holding up to go to
the ring. I mean, I think he respect the guys.
I think more that that challenged him.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, and I think, you know, the bottom line, and
I think Jesse says to this day that what allowed
him to do this, he's the bottom line. He just
really didn't care. I think he had this confidence that
no matter what he did, he was gonna be okay.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
And and I think that carried him.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
And also that that you know, he really understood how
you put these guys over, you know, with how he
uh you know, would trash the baby face and then
you know, put over the heel, knowing that it was
going to have the reverse effect no matter what he said.
But the other thing that I thought was really great
about what he did, too, is that he would he
would say something like, you know, he's a despicable human being,

(12:39):
but I got to give it up to him. But
you know, with his technique in the ring, you know
what I mean, Like he did like these backhand.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
He never said nothing good about me.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Ask my sisters, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
But he could throw in that respect kind of angle,
you know what I mean, like I don't have to
like him, but I got to respect him. And he
would do that once in a while, not enough to
where you're going, I'm not buying this, you know, I
don't understand, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (13:02):
When he did when he did pull it out, it
meant something. He would do it just enough when he
said something like that, really you know. So he only
said it about certain guys in certain angles. But yeah,
in general though I think he was he was tough
on the baby faces, which was was his job, but
it was supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
It was good at it, you know, to this day, Jimmy,
he really mean it.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
That guy.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's crazy, but I was, you know, I was disappointed
when he left that over whatever differences they had.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
But I don't stay there forever. I mean who I mean,
nobody's ever stayed there forever?

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Oh I know, I know, but I don't know if
anyone has really ever been well paired with Vince since.
And of course he's not at the announced table anymore.
But I think during that period of time that it was,
it was really I think they had, you know, between
Hobby and Guerrilla and then you had Jesse and Vince.
It really worked really well. And back to Saturday Nights

(14:07):
made event, I think it worked really well for those programs,
those those episodes, because I watched a few of them
on the on the network, and uh, you know it
even as simple as you look back, it's kind of
funny you watch those shows and they have these really
simple graphics, and you know, I was a television producer a.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Lot of my career and I look.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Back at you know, like some of the effects that
they did, you know, like these just very simple layered
you know and freeze frames and which look really you know,
terrible now, but back then it was like whoa state of.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
The art stuff.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
You know, Yeah, that was well, like you said before,
you know, I think the biggest evolution thing.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
For wrestlers over the GPS's.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
You know, back in the day, you'd pull up, I'd
be driving the car I had of a four hundred
pound ball headed guy sitting next to me, a hot
blonde and a midget in the back seat. You couldn't
you couldn't get anybody to give you a direction.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
She'd pull up.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Hey, excuse me, excuse me, doesn't look at him, keep walking, Harriet.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I mean you did the man the man thing. You
didn't do the man thing where you just refused to
ask directions?

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Are your kid?

Speaker 3 (15:13):
When you're supposed to be at the show at six
thirty and it's quarter to seven, you have not a
clue where.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
The hell you are.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Somebody helped me and you drive by a police car.
They're just going to pull you over to ask what
the hell's going on? If they look in the circus
in town.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Then you're gonna be late, right, well, not too late.
Remember you said you got to be just just late enough.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
That's the deal.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
If you're going to be late, be so late that
they're happy to see you. You know, thank god you
made it and said where the hell you been? You
guys made the show Jesus.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
All right, So I want to take you back, and
I hope that you can remember some of this stuff
because it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
But as I.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Mentioned, no, no, no, because I'm right there with you,
so I can't it's no shot because I'm then I'm
it's a shot to me too. But as I mentioned,
you know, you you got you know, you had some
great matches on these programs, and I remember thinking at
the time how huge this was because you know, I'm

(16:12):
a big television geek about is you know, the history
of television, and I remember thinking that, like and I
when I did get my chance, man, I was I
don't know if I've ever been more nervous to be
on television, even after all of the pay per views
I'd done and everything like that.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
But we'll get it. We'll get to that.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
But I want to talk to you about, you know,
you're a big appearance you had and it was a
big push. It was in Springfield, Massachusetts and it was
April twenty second, nineteen eighty eight. Now do you remember
like these matchups because you had I think this is
when you really had an angle starting to go with
Andre and they had you in one of the top

(16:50):
matches Jim Duggan defeats Hercules, but Bobby Heen and Andre
the Giant were springside, and it included footage because they
were really you know, match time. I don't know how
much made up of these programs, but a lot of
it was like building up stuff because they did a
ton of interviews. They had Piper's Pits, you know, Piper Pits,

(17:10):
Piper's Pits on, you know, stuff like that. And they
had an interview with you and you were talking about,
you know, knocking Andrea out.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
With your two by four. So I take you back,
what do you remember of that? Uh? That time end?
This angle going.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Well, everybody realized how big the Saturday night main event was.
I mean even my sister who was a judge in
upstate New York, even her friends would watch the show
on Saturday the name main event, so.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
I knew it was a big deal.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
But also to be out there and talking about the
probably the biggest angle of my whole life, knocking out
Andre the Giant, the only guy ever to knock out
Andre the Giant. You know, I hit him with my
two by four. If I could tell the story, Sean.
You know, of course, if there if there's a giant
and professional wrestling, they're like Doug and get your two
by four. I have to wrestle every giant there is.

(18:04):
But you know, Andrea's in the ring. He goes, I
challenge anyone like Doug and gets your two by four,
you know.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
And so I run down.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
I got my chin on Andrea's belly and I'm looking
up at him the muddle like.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
I'm not afraid of you.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
And Andrea went to grab me, and his thumb just
hit me in the lip and knocked my lip off. Man,
my lip just came hanging down. The blood is just
cascading down my chest. He's got me by the throat.
He's choking me down. He's choking me down. He's choking
me down. I'm down on my knees. I feel around. Boom,
I get my two by four, hit the big giant

(18:41):
between the eyes.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
He goes down like a huge redwood tree.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
We go.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
I'm standing there over Andre the giant, covered in blood
with a two by four up in the air. Oh
the lip kind of flapping in the wind. But that
really elevated my career. So have an opportunity editored at
night main event to get that across the folks. I mean,
I knew how important that was that I delivered on that.
That was a big moment in my career.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and it certainly was.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
And you know what was interesting too about these these
uh Saturday night main events is that, you know, most
TVs like challenging people.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Remember back you know, they were all pretty much.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Jobber matches where they'd bring out you know, the superstar
US matches. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But they had to deliver
on this, so they had some you know, some pretty
great matchups. I mean, you you know, facing Hercules. Hercules
was a big superstar at the time. But tell me
how did they bring along this.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Angle that you know? Of course they put Hercules in
the ring.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
He was part of that, you know that family, as
Bobby would always refer to his guys in his stable.
But how did do you remember how did this develop
with Andre because you had a lot of great matches
with him that were part of all this.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Well, you know, the deal with Hercules, God bless one
of the guys that have has passed now over the years.
But you know, I knew herk from back down in
mid South. So I always enjoyed working with him, but
I don't really think that was the segue into the
Andre deal. That was the challenge when he was in
the ring, and you know he said, hey, I challenge anyone,

(20:15):
and boom. I was lucky enough to be chosen to
run down there man. And of course Andre. I had
had an opportunity to work with Andre as a young
kid over in Hawaii as the convict, you know, with
my mask, and he would come back from Hawaii or
excuse me, he would come back from Japan. He'd stop
in Hawaii and work from my via. And so he

(20:37):
squashed me over there a couple of times. So I
had a little rapport with him. So after all the
years to come back to WWF and I had a nice,
nice rapport with him and he did the favor for me.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
You know, Jim Bobby talks about it a lot before,
and I talked about it in his book. Other people
have mentioned the same thing, and you know, I had
the experience to it being around r And you know
they always say, you know, either Andre liked you or
he didn't. It was pretty much cut and dry. Yeah,
why do you think that he respected you? Or you

(21:10):
were able to have, like you said, a good relationship
with him.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
You know, I I tried to treat Andrea like I
would any other man.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
I wasn't like afraid of him when he come into
the room where some guys were, you know, so intimidated.
You know, and I've been playing ball for years and
been around big guys. Nothing of course Andrea size. But
you know, even now, people say, Hacksaw, you're a big guy,
and I said, my business, I'm a medium sized guy.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
The guys are all six five, three hundred pounds, so
I'm used to about being around big men. But I
just our personalities. We kind of got along. Arnie Skollen
was both our friends. Tim White, who really handled Andre,
drove him around and handled all this hotel logistics stuff,
was a good guy and a good friend of mine.
So I had that rapport with him. But you know,

(22:02):
guys like Bam Bam Bigelow, he didn't like Bam Bam.
He chase chased Bam Bam out of the ring in
Madison Square Garden. He was heavy hand in Bamber and
that was rolled out of the ring right Bamber Sauld
You know.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
Abandoned ship brother.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
He rolled out of the ring, went back to the
dressing room, got his gear and was gone before Andre
came back to the dressing room and Big John stud
Andre didn't like Big John neither.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Well there's only one giant, two.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Guys that are gone, God bless them.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah. Well, and you know the thing is, and this
is my theory.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
People may in my experience with Andre, uh, you know,
you always heard the stories. And it's not that it
influenced me in any way as far as how I
was around him. But you know, you heard stories about
you know, Andrea that where you know, he would be
in an airport and people would come up and try
and you know, get an autograph or ask him a
question or you know what. You got to think, Well,

(22:54):
this is something he endured his entire life, lonely life.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
For that guy was a tough He was so big
he could never get away from anybody. I mean, hold
your hand up, let me see how big your hand is, right,
and I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, And so there would be the point where, you know,
Andre just didn't acknowledge people at all.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
He could be an irritable giant man, you know that.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
But you know what the story he tipped over a
car with like three guys in it went as one
a small car and he tipped it over on its
side back in the day. You know, Andrea the man
was a giant. He didn't want to and of course
there's a lot of stories about it. The way he
could drink a lot, and that's that's legendary. But as
a talent, I mean, he was. He was Andre the giant.

(23:39):
You couldn't have to see the movie Prince's Bride. Talk
about perfect casting. You need the brute squad get Andre.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
I love that movie to that everybody does. It really
is and he was. He was so good in that.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
He did a great job in it. You can played
the giant.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
But but you saw him.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm sure the times would he be at an airport
or he would be somewhere where people were coming up
and he just did not even acknowledge them whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
He could be mean, but you understood why.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, I've seen him break cameras before, grab if people
take pictures without asking it, and Tim White would pay
him off. I mean, and Tim uh, you know was
a referee for quite a while. Was I think he was.
He's still maybe with WWE at this time a really
good guy, but did an awful lot for Andre, joking
around in the van and everything. But he would try
to intercept people because you know, the guy had had

(24:33):
no quality time at all. Everywhere he went and everything.
Meagine being that big. You know, you can't sit on
an airplane, You can't fit in the bathroom. You know,
he was so big some toilets would break if be
sitting on the toilet. You can't fit in the shower.
I mean you could see where he could be an
irritable giant sometimes, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
But as I was saying, he was hurting too, I
mean he was physically hurting. Oh yeah, because he's back
and you know, there's his whole body was beat up,
his old body parts. But as I mentioned, like my
theory with Andre, and he was he was could not
have been nicer to me in every experience that I
had with under I don't know why. And Bobby told

(25:12):
me he likes it, you know whatever. And I remember
one time at one of the events, he he you know,
he carried around those you know, that aluminum briefcase. He
had that and it was Haliburton Haliburns.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Everybody had him, he put a bottle of wine in
my locker, and I was just, you know, I was like,
that was just I never forgot that he was just.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Don't blame me that that's huge. I mean I didn't
know that story. That's a big acknowledgement from the big
guy to put a bottle of wine in your locker.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
That's that says a lot, Sean, and he was and
I think that I say that, Yeah, But I think
I think the thing about it is that if you
if you treated him.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Like with anybody else, anybody else, then that's it.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
That was it. He just wanted he did. He just
wanted to be one of the guys.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, And I'm sure that's why he respected you. It
wasn't besides what you how, you know, handled yourself in
the ring and you know, did matches because you know,
I heard more than one time that if he didn't
want to have a good match, what.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Are you going to do? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:16):
I was three hundred and twelve pounds, man, I was
on the gas back then. I bench pressed five oh five.
I was a pretty stout cat. And Andrea pushed me
around like a kid. He just palled me around the ring.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
I mean like oh, different levels.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay, moving along here, and then we will talk about
Andrea probably every show because storage because he was such
a great impact on the WWF.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
I mean he is.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
He was loyal to the McMahon family. Vince always protected him,
and uh, he returned that loyalty.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
There's there's an absolutely no question about it.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
But there was a good relationship for both of them.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
They both yeah, no kidding absolutely.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Now on November twenty sixth, and this is I think
this is works really well. That's happens to be. July
fourth week, you had a flag match with none other
than Boris Zukoff, a flag match and it was on
let's say November sixteenth. It was a taping in Sacramento, California.

(27:24):
That show aired November twenty sixth. But any of these
patriotic matches, I don't think you had any issue with
and being able to sell it.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Well.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
No, you know, gay folks ask you sometimes even now
they see you get tired of its. Back then you know,
you're on the road maybe fifty days and doing double shots,
you're driving, flying every day, hotels, You'll be burned out
and you're in the back of the dressing room. You're
open your bag, your gears all nasty because I had
a chance to wash it in a couple of days,

(27:57):
and glazing up your boots.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And like, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Don't know, man, And all of a sudden you get
to the curtain. They start hit the music. You go
through the curtain, boom the people Oh ussay, the lights shine. Man,
it's like a shot of adrenaline. Man, you just boom.
You got the flag of the United States of America.
I have the honor to be standing out there in
front of twenty thousand people chanting USA. People say, you

(28:22):
get tired of it, said, I got goosebumps.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Now, brother, I love doing it.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Even now to this stage, I can't wrestle very well,
but I can still wave a flag.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Oh that's right, you're and you're only down to two
gimmicks now, which is pretty nice.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Well, I don't have to carry all.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
The maps my thumb. I'm really in trouble.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
But those are pretty good matches.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
I always like the you know, zookof and you know
that the Russian the Bolsheviks were I always got to
kick out of it and and two great workers, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Oh yeah, it bores a good hand, a good work guy. Yeah,
he had a big head. Remember everybody used to rib
him about his head. That'd be probably he'd be human
resources that stuff was.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
Going on now.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
But but yeah, I enjoyed working with Bords, another guy
that came out of out of Mid South. And you
know most of those flag matches, you know, the winner
his flag raised at the top of the arena and
they play the national anthem. I mean, uh, you know,
to this day, I can't understand the guy taking a
knee during a national anthem. I mean, we don't agree

(29:32):
with a lot of the political stuff going on. That's fine,
but disrespect and protest whatever you want, but have the
darn grace to stand up and respect the flag.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah. I could not agree with you more because.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
How do you block for a guy like that if
he's a quarterback? Whoops?

Speaker 3 (29:50):
That was my past blocking anyway. That's why didn't last time.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Pro We got in, I thought it was a knees.
I thought it was.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, well comment they have.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Of course Mid South we ran the wishbone. So I
was in a four point stance coming off the ball,
gotten the pros or Lake past block and what the.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Devil is that?

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah? Yeah, that's where the big money is. The weak
side tackle. That's would have been perfect.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Shoot, back then you had twenty two grand.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Really was that the stuff? Was that the Southeast?

Speaker 4 (30:20):
So yeah, it's minimum wage in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Wow, Well you probably look at some of the money
that some of these uh the wrestlers are pulling in now, and.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
As as baseball or everything.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Everybody's making more money now than they were back then,
you know, and it's been a good business for me,
you know. I just you just don't get divorced three times,
you know, don't buy four Mercedes and six roll x's.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
I mean, you know, live within your means.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Hey, hey, Jim, when when you did these uh these
are network specials. I mean, did you guys get anything
extra for doing those shows.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Or was it just part of because now show brother
got the opportunity to be on the show. Yeah that
was yeah, yeah, yeah, we were glad, I mean excited
to be on that show. If you weren't on that show,
that was a big disappointment obviously, I mean you know then.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
But back then, I mean that was going to say
though if you look at if you know, you look
at how they scheduled these events, they were you know,
they were TV tapings, That's basically what they were. You know,
this one would you know, you'd it was tape January third,
It wouldn't air until January twenty seventh, this other end
of the one in Chattanooga, whatever, But we would do
matches for prime time, We do matches for Challenge. Was

(31:37):
it still based at that point, did you guys? Was
it all based on the gate that those houses did?

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Well, you know, nobody really knows what how the back
then was, you know, because nobody knows what the gate is.
You know, who's gonna go out there and count the house?
You know, it was cold the other Baton Rouge, the
guy came back ten six. Every house was ten six.
Ye place to be jammed ten six, ten six, you know,

(32:04):
so you never you never know.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
But was that the system though? Was that what it was?

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Supposedly that was the system, right, And of course obviously
the higher up the card you are, the more you make.
But you know, that's supposedly one of the big stories
why Nails went off on Vince McMahon in Green Bay
and choked him out is you know they there was
heat going on there anyway with nails, but he was
working with boss Man, you know, and they did at

(32:30):
the Garden Show when boss Man's like, you know I
got seven grand what you get?

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (32:36):
They like I got fifteen hundred. Oh man, they're really
screwing you around. I'll tell you I wouldn't put up
with that. Cost me had dumb like a fox, you know. Yeah,
I love him.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
You know, tell everybody else like that son that I
got out kill him, right watch.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, maybe maybe it was a REBBI wanted to see
what would happen if it was you know, if it
was perfectly you know, if it was Kurt, he would have.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Been all over that. Oh yeah, you know what he got.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, I wouldn't put up with that, right, the King
of Wrestler's honor, Yeah, exactly, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
No, no, that's it wrestler's honor, I promise you.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah. Well, it seemed like it didn't. It wasn't. Kind
of lack head was with us, I think.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
But you know, Nails, shoot, he went off after Vince
and grabbed him by the throat. I think that's you know, Sarge,
I pulled Nails off him, And that's why I think Sarge.
For the reason Sarge had such a good run up there.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Saved him nails not so long. No, I think you
got to keep the jumpsuit though, yeah you needed.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
It where he was on work release.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Anyway, Yeah, I'll tell you Chris. A funny story is that.
You know, Chris Chambers is a big producer with the
w W. I'm sure you've had dealings with him through
the year.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
But anyway, yeah you mention his name.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
We're having a good time sat company.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
But he but he's a very good friend of mine.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
He actually worked with me at Major League Baseball Productions
and uh, you know, we threw my connections and but
he is an incredibly talented producer and he came in
they brought him in to work and it was the
first TV he'd ever been to Jim And when that
incident happened, and I remember him because I was at
the TV taping as well, and he came out me.

(34:32):
He's like, what the hell did you just get me into?
Some guy attacked the boss, like the guy.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Who runs the place?

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Uh yeah, what it works from here, Welcome to wrestling.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I'm telling you the funniest thing in the world. Like
I didn't know what to tell him. I'm like, Wow.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, that kind of stuff happens once in a while.
But with Bince, he owns place the provinces.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
A pretty scrappy guy himself, you know, I mean back then.
Of course, now he has armed security around him, which
you can understand why. I'll tell you what was wild
back when they were giving away that money. Remember they'd
given away a million dollars WWE and just just recently
because I was back at the show and people would
call in, I don't know what the gimmick was, but

(35:18):
they were giving away a million dollars on Monday night.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
But back then, because.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
They actually had a million dollars cash at the show
on a pallet and they had some armed security around
those all that, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
They had a million, I thought it was I thought
it was kind of you know, ringed with real stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
No, well, if they didn't, they had the security for it,
and they weren't real congenial security neither.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Hey, how you fellows do it? Oh keep moving buddy.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, yeah, Well he took some shots, I mean, that's
for sure. I mean, we know the whole incident with
Brett too.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
With Brett, which you know, and I'll go into that
real grav you don't mind shown because Brett's is a
good friend of mine.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
I'd like Brett a lot spend night. That's his house.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
He stayed at mind, but I thought Brett was kind
of wrong on that whole deal up in Canada.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Well, you know that's that's uh, you know, we should
definitely have a podcast about that, because yeah, you got
both sides of this, both sides. But really, if you
think about you talk about wrestler's honor, you don't take
a belt, you know, from a.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Territory in a sense, right you know, so.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Well yeah, yeah, and you know, of course that's that
was started the evolution of the business. I mean, you know,
Austin didn't want to do the job for me down
in w c W when I came in down there
and beat him at Halloween Havoc for the US title,
you know, beat the hair off his head down there,
but he didn't want to do the job. You know,

(36:51):
a stunning Steve and that's one of the reasons the
match only went so short, uh. You know, Sean, And
up to that point, when you left a territory, you'd
do the favor.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
You'd come in.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Guys who do the favor for you on the way out,
and when I left Mid South, you know, Kamala was
beating the devil.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
Out of me every night. You know, so you do
the favor on the way out.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
But that's when the business was changed, and uh, you know,
guys were starting to get agents and thinking about the
bigger money was getting involved.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Yeah, you know, and one podcast I think that we
definitely have to do down the road to Jim is
talk about attempts to organize because you know, I still
think about it, and wow, it just shows the kind
of business this is. Where they were it was. You know,
you're you're basically independent contractors. That's what it comes down to,
and it's every man for himself and the fact that

(37:42):
they've been able to keep it that way in a
sense and not letting uh, you know, the boys organized
because you imagine if they did. I mean really, if
everybody just said, you know what we're walking, if you
don't do this, it would be a very different business today.
And I probably shouldn't mention that I'm going to hear
from my friends but at the w W but you
know what, you know what I'm saying though, if and

(38:03):
you know, I don't agree with you it all Sean really, no, no,
I just drinking. No, no, I'm just come on, let's.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Get let's get some heat going here like those others.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, no, I uh, I agree, But you got
to get the top guys, you know, the other underneath guys.
But the top guys aren't going to do it because
he's taking care of the top guys. And a lot
of folks say, well, how come you guys aren't Screen
Actors Guild.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
You guys should be Screen Actors Guild.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Because he uses non union production people, the camera people,
the sound people, they're all non union, so his whole
show is independent contractors. But you know, the deal is
you know that going in. It's just not a surprise,
you know. And I think what the big the thing
most guys miss out on is out of the group
of being organized as insurance. I think a lot of

(38:49):
guys would like to get health insurance as the group.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
That's the deal.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
You're always a phony wrestler until you try to get
some health insurance. What do you do, I'm a wrestler,
give me that application back exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Wait wait oh every yeah, but it's you know, it's
kind of like in a sense and like I said,
this isn't for this podcast. But you know it's kind
of like you're an actor and you make it big
on a show, and you know these guys that are
down there say, hey, you know what, You're in a
position now you can help us out on the guys
like and mess up this gravy training you out of your.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Mind, right, So it's replaceable, you know, you know, because
there never be another Bruno boom. There's Halks for there
never be another Halts the boom. There's Austin and never
be another Austin boom. There's the rock. I mean, that's
the way it works. The business is bigger than any
one guy or any group of guys.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Oh no, no kidding, And uh, you know, I want
to get back here to you know, the Saturday Night's
main event because I want to talk about, you know,
some of the behind the curtain stuff because I think
a lot of people would love to hear about that.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
And uh, you know, as I.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Told you, you know, like the first time that I
ever appeared was not until April twenty third, nineteen ninety,
which was uh in Austin, Texas. And I remember they
had had Vincent Jesse on horses as they started that program.
I don't know if you remember that one, but it.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Was themis Yeah, I know it did.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
It was it's the top level, was the best there
is in the world.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, they called it the Tussle in Texas. I remember
it very well, and I, like I said, I have
never I don't know if I've ever been more nervous
in my life to do an event because first of all,
it was it was network television. I mean that was
to me was we we'd done probably in a pay
per view. I was seen by more people than than

(40:38):
on one of these network shows. But it was just
something about being on NBC and like the network. And
we would do these interviews and you remember everything was scripted.
I mean they had a script. Everything was boom. We
had to hit it right, remember those interviews.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Sure, And I know you didn't like doing that stuff.
You could do it, but you know, you.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Couldn't see the teleprompter.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Neither man blind is a bad look at the teleprompter
and they said no turn around, dug and.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
That teleprompter.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, big cards, look at the big card over there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
But it was it was also tough because we talked
about Vince, and Vince could be intimidating and a lot
of times he was in the interview room for a
lot of these things. But not on top of that
was Dick Ever saw you like Dick Ever saw the
network guy who had been with you know, Saturday Night Live. Uh,
you know, and these guys were and you want to
get this thing right. And my part, my role was

(41:32):
very small. All I had to do was say my
right line to get to the next guy, you know,
and my god, if I screwed that up, I was like,
oh I cannot because a lot of these it wasn't
just one guy.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
A lot of times you'd have three or four guys, right.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
So I just remember thinking like Art would like be
beating out of my chest getting through this. And do
you remember those sets they had. They were the phoniest
looking sets that I don't know how they got away
with Jean had Jean was out on the floor a
lot of times, or he'd be doing this stuff. Had
me in this fake locker room that you know, had
all the trimmings of a you know, supposed professional locker room.

(42:07):
But the weird thing in this I don't know why
this stands out of my head, but I still remember it.
Do you remember in the it was pretty much I
always did like the baby uh interviews or I would
do some of the heills, but they would, you know,
turn around. But there was a pay phone prop on
the wall. It was a payphone that made no sense.
Why is that in the locker room in the back.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
It was just it was on that. I don't know,
but it.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
But the reason I remember so well is that the
guys had a blast with it.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I mean I remember heen and and uh and perfect.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Would you know they a few times to get the
guys that weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, so
we say, and they'd go like the phone and be like, hey,
uh yeah, hold on, he's here, he's right here, and
they'd hand the phone.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
What they leave out back jack alone.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I'm not naming name. I mean, I don't know why
that's well.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
You know that that shows exactly how good Bobby and
Kurt are. You know, boom movets. There's something there, use it,
you know, if there's something in the room, use it.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Oh yeah, And I remember the one time we're doing
an interview and we taped all these we pre taped
them and uh, I was doing an interview with Bobby
and the the the phone fell off the wall. It
fell off the wall, and without missing a beat, Bobby said,
good that funnels finally stopped.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Ringing on his feet all the time.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
Man, the guys sharp as attack.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Oh man, I'm telling you it was.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Kurt was like that too. A lot of the guys were.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
I don't know if you get to hear the fireworks
going out here, Sean, I live in South Carolina. You
know fireworks are legal down here. You think you can
get an RPG if you want, Carolina. There are a
light that looks like bag Dad down here.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Over louke Off skyrocket we use more to in coming.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
What what would happened if I tied one of these
skyrockets to my kid's legs. Let's find out. I'm not
making fun of the pilks there. I'm a please, I'm
just a little fourth of July humor, right, Jim protect.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
You imagine telling a Polish and Irish guy in a
Catholic walking the car Oh forget it.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
She's called a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
So you got a big show. The fireworks are up
already out there. I'm way out west, not dark.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Well, they've been they've been going. It's hard to tell
which his fireworks and which is gun fire. Here in
South Carolina, it's more than two.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Well, I want to I want you to be able
to get to it. And I don't know how this
this flies by, but I'll tell you how to blast today.
I love talking about this and the fact that you
know it it really did. That's the whole thing about
Saturday Night Main Event really made uh w w F
now w w E mainstream. I think that that is

(45:01):
when that was like the pinnacle, that it really put
it over that over that hoop there that when you
know where you'd see people.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
I remember going to Madison Square Garden.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
There would be a host of celebrities that just wanted
to hang out. Bob Costas was there. Every time we
had a show in New York. Regis would come back.
There there was and you just look around like, wow,
you know this.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Politicians, sports stars, musicians, everybody wanted to be part of
the show. I agree with you one hundred percent that
the Saturday Night Main Event took it mainstream.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
It really did, and you know it did come back.
You know, they they finally you know, as things happened
NBC got started going with the NBA and the contracts
with that, and the ratings you know after a while.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
But the fact that they had, Yeah, but the fact.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
That they did you know, you know, like thirty two
shows before ninety two and then they brought it back,
you know later in the two thousand they did former shows.
But also you know that they had Remember they had
main event on Friday night. There was a few scheduling problems,
and those shows were huge.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
The way the Saturday night program is nowadays, they should
try it again. I think they might pull a number down.
There's nothing to watch on Saturday night.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yeah, well, who knows, stay tuned. If SNL keeps going
the way it is, you know, who knows. I mean
that's what I mean. They could take a break for
every once a month.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, well it was, and it was.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
It was awesome, and I'm sure you do feel the
same way I do to have been a part of that.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
And I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I don't if you recall, I mean you you were
known the world over at this point, but I do recall.
I do remember after appearing on those network shows how
where you know, it was mostly when I was at
events or something like that. And people would recognize you
here and there after that man, it was everywhere.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I mean, it was you know what.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
I mean, Yeah, I tell you, Like I said, open
up to a whole new group of people. I rode
to the show with my sister Angel, who was a lawyer,
with a couple of her friends, and they were listening
to classical music on the way this show. I said,
this may be the only car and all these this
whole parking lot listening to classical music. But that Saturday
night main event, he did open up the product to

(47:18):
a whole new group of folks that I never saw
it because a lot of folks are like, you know what,
I hate that wrestling.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
That's horrible. Have you ever seen it?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
No? Well no, Well I think that they gave.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Got people because the production value was so good that
they gave it a chance and they watched the show.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
And you know, as I mentioned that Eversaw had this
No Sleep productions, that was like this period of time
where it was kind of between the network and I
was working in Stanford and I was still living in
the city, and I remember I got to ride back
into the city. He ever saw had a car with
this guy these guys that he worked with.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
The's only like three guys that are you.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Know, staff member guys, and they and I got to
ride back in the city, and I, poor guy man,
I picked his brain about everything with TV because you
know what a television geek I am.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
And I think that I got to ride back once.
They didn't. They didn't invite me back for a right
and I had to take the train.

Speaker 4 (48:09):
Well, you got all the questions in that first trip, though.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, I did. I talked to you.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Listen, look where you're at now, brother?

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Hey, I mentioned at the top of the program that
you know, we we got a bunch of questions him,
I know, you get a bunch on Twitter. And then
I told you to open up the email, and you know,
I was just whoa. I didn't even have time to
go through them because I checked them the other day
and I wrote them down. But I promise, folks, I
will get to them. And when you do send us
a question, I will give you a shout out because
we really love hearing from you, so hacksa. I want

(48:39):
to I'm going to just throw out a few because
we don't have a lot of time here. But from
Dan Letska, he wants to know who was tougher, and
I don't know, we already know the answer to this,
but I'm hoping you'll shed a little light on both
of them and maybe something we had forward, Andre or
Yoka Zuna.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, that's Dan, let's get Dan wanted to know that.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
Well, Yoko, of course, probably was heavier than Andre.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
You know, Yoka, how skilled was he? Though?

Speaker 2 (49:07):
You know, Jim, we saw he was a gigantic man.
But what could he move? Could he work?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Really?

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Very agile?

Speaker 3 (49:14):
I mean I would do a deal where I would
try to knock him off his feet. You know that
was a big thing because nobody was able ever to
knock him off his feet. And boy, hit him off
the ropes. I hit him off the ropes. He would
like doing the limba. He'd be halfway, just almost touching
the ground, and he'd come back up. I mean, he
was an agile man getting up on the second rope

(49:35):
doing the bonzai drop. But Andrea is in a class
of hisself. Andre and during his prime, I think Andre
could probably take a black bear. I'm not sure about it, grizzly,
but I think he'd work over a black bear.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, well, you know, I know you know Pat Patterson
who knew him when he was very young. Also so
did Lord Alfred Hey. Alfred told me stories about you know,
seeing him, and you know Alfred could speak you know,
passable French, and he would you know, converse with Andrea
all the time. But he told me that when he
saw him when he was yeah, when when he was
like seventeen years old, he saw andre and he said

(50:12):
he was this nimble, uh, you know, could do some
amazing things in the ring. And was you know the
size he was, but he weighed a lot less.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Was seventeen we all could do but you seven to
even a forty seven, they could do a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yeah, but to think of that, I mean, he's still
you know, you think what he did in his later
years when you said he was in constant pain and uh.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Well that he could notice a lot of times when
he'd go to the ring with Bobby, he'd hold onto
Bobby's shoulder or even Teddy. When he was with Teddy,
I think it was a WrestleMania three or four there
in Atlantic City, he was on he was ringside, he
punched me outside the ring with working with Dbiasse, he
would hold on walk down to the ring.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, and I and I think you imagine how difficult
that must have been for him have to fly places.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
And I think you mentioned Timmy White who used to drive.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I remember they had that customized van that had this big,
gigantic Captain Sea mounted in the middle.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Yeah, but it took a while for that van to
come about. You know, up until that time, you have
to sit sideways in the van. I mean, tough life.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Yeah, but that did make.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
More about Andre. We keep drifting back n talk about
the boss.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
He is such a legend, all right. Questions Yeah, yeah,
I got more coming. I got one for me here
from John Bolan. He says, please address the story behind
Ian Mooney in your next podcast. Do you remember Ian Mooney?
That uh that evil twin brother of mine who still
ows me money?

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Oh yes, yeah I do.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Well, I'm gonna we're gonna we actually do a lot
more on this because I want to do a show
where we talk about sensational Sherry because, uh, you know,
I think Jim that she was a real trailblazer for
women in wrestling in a sense that you know, of course,
we had you know Mullah, you know, and others who
I take nothing away from but I really think that

(52:11):
she's the one who helped, you know, help women cross
that line into becoming parts of you know, the you know,
main storylines, you know, where she would where she was
involved with the men and I and I and she
was really I don't know if she gets the credit
that she deserves.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
And I want to talk about her. We'll do that
in a podcast coming up.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
But I did Wrestling Spotlight with her and just quickly
because I'm not going to go on this, but Ian.
They needed someone to host the program, and I was,
of course doing the Events Center, which had segments that
appeared in Wrestling Spotlight. So they came up to this
idea Bruce Pritchard and and Vince that you have.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Sean do it. Well. When I heard about this, I
was like, awesome, I get I get to have an
evil twin.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I get to do all these great things I could be,
you know this horrible And no, they didn't really let
me do anything except be basically Sean Mooney as Ian.
So we'll talk more about that, but I'll tell you
how what it was like to work with Sherry. She
was not exactly soft with me. In a cent there,
Jim she beat the stew out of me every week.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
And I'll tell you more.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
What a way to cover a problem? They got a problem?
Boom they covered Ian come.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Here, but no, I mean, but I wanted to be
a heel.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
It was I wanted to be world champion.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Brother. All right, here's an excellent for you quickly.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Here who was the greatest wrestler you ever had a
match with?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Can you?

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Can you narrow down that? That's hard?

Speaker 3 (53:42):
The guy I've learned the most from was Teddbiassi, the
million dollar man.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
You know, any of the second generation guys, Ted, Jacob, Snake,
Curt hitting guys that grew up in wrestling are just
a little bit more polished. You know, they understand the business.
They know that they know the business is much better.
You know, I didn't start wrestling. I was twenty five,
coming out of a football background. I struggled the first
three or four years at different characters, and I finally

(54:10):
found Hacksaw a little bit in San Antonio, but I
went to Mid South. I hooked up with Tedis at
the rat Pack and since since then I've wrestled Ted
thousands of times all over the world.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
And you know, he's the consummate pro.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
And what makes what makes him and others like him great.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Well, you know those kinds of guys, like I said,
Ted Kirk Jake, did the whole package. They got the interview,
they got the look, they got the ring knowledge. You know,
they got the working ability to tell the story in
the ring. They you know, they got the hold. There's
so many guys and plus they can handle the road.
A lot of guys have the total packages and the

(54:53):
body and the work and the interviews, but they can't
handle the road. You know, you miss all your holida,
you're away from your wife. I mean, it's a there's
there's more than just a business aspect to the business.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, it's it is quite a sacrifice, you know. I
always talk about that.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
You know, you kind of sell your soul to the devil,
you know, and because of what it costs you, you
may you know, with the fame and everything else that
comes with it.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
It's a strain on a marriage. It's a strain on
just any relationship with your family.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
And of course all the bad things are out there,
all the booze, the women, the drugs.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
God, I missed the old days.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
The good day.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, this says one of the last guys left.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go with one more with each
of us because I'm telling I got a long list here, Jim.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
But we'll get to them next week. I promise.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
That question I just asked you was from old school wrestling. Uh,
this one quickly I could answer. Let's see, let's see. Oh,
Matthew Howell in an email, ask could address can you
address the w w F Blazers. Remember the blazers that
we wore. It had the w w F logo. Yeah, well,

(56:09):
I like the solid blue ones. But Vince, as you know,
was back in the day. You remember the suits he
wore right right, the colors of the rainbow three piece suits.
So I somehow I think he thought that we should
be a little bit part of that. And I remember
they they would have these. There was a tailor in Greenwich,
Connecticut that handled all that stuff for us, the patches

(56:30):
and the jackets, and they had our size and uh
we had the dressing rooms were upstairs at on Hamilton
where the TV studios are. I came in one day
and there was like four of these blazers and one
was powder blue, the other one was cranberry and the
gray one was okay, I'm like, what am I supposed
to do with this? They were just especially the Cranberry.

(56:53):
I could never if you looked on any I don't
think I ever wore the Cranberry. But but I liked
the dark blue blaze. I was good with that. You
could have given me four of those and I would
have been good.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
But you know, well you're Goulda gave the Granberry wonder
your evil twin.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Well, you know, you think back then though, the NFL
or the NBA, they had the guys standing there with
the microphone with the NFL on it and the blazer.
I mean that was at that time period. I mean
that's when they had the block WWF, long before the
scratch ww you know, I mean evolves, I tell you
that's the thing about the ww They they evolved very

(57:32):
very quickly. But the social media, they were one of
the first on the social media, the whole deal with
the network probably you know, they were ahead of everybody
getting their own product and a network. I mean, which
is which has worked out great for us old timers.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, well to this day, you know, I mean they're
always had a curve and I don't imagine they'll stop
anytime too soon, as long as the VINCEMICTMN is involved.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Okay, last one man?

Speaker 3 (58:00):
The question what so what happens after Vince mcman is
another question?

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Maybe that's another podcast down the road.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Oh yeah, if we never want to work with the
w W again, we'll do that, right, Okay.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
I don't think that's a big probability anyway. Wait, hold on,
there's a phone now after this show?

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Hey, what ever again? What's that name? Okay?

Speaker 4 (58:24):
All right, you hear that a lot and wrestling? All right?

Speaker 1 (58:29):
I like this question. This is great.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
This is from Dominic Tago from Los Angeles, an email
we received and Jimmy says, did you did you have
any issues working with Lance Storm in the WCW And
how did the US fans react when you became a
member of Team Canada? And I saw a picture of that,
I was sickened with you and the you had a
jacket on with.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
It during the Canada day, which I believe you don't know.
Don't get me wrong, but this is hacksaw Jim Duggant.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Well, you know the the that there's quite a big
backstory to that whole deal. That too, It was Vince
Russo's ideal. He came into w c W, you know,
and I think what they were trying to do is
push me out of my contract. They wanted me to quit,
you know. And first they made me the janitor of
the w c W. And that janitor gimmick worked a
little bit. You know, I found the work.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I know that no matter what they threw at you, right.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Yeah, And so that was the deal, and they put
the Team Canada thing on, and uh, you know, the
the US fans were like, oh, come.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
On, Hacksaw, you know that's not you.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I had a few, you know, people bought it, but
I think it was more like that's that, you know,
and it really wasn't coming from.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
The heart, even even the fans.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Great because Major Guns was part of Team Canada. So
and then of course I was able to cut my
hair and shave my beard, which I haven't done in
my whole adult life.

Speaker 4 (59:52):
So that that was pretty cool too.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
I went and sat with guys I've known for twenty years.
They didn't have a clue to hell I was. You know,
my wife, I came home, My wife is like, this
is great.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
You look totally different.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I wait a minute,