WWE Survivor Series 1988: Macho Man's Hatred for Hulk Hogan - Sean Mooney Shares All

Go back to the golden era of the WWF as we break down WWE Survivor Series 1988 with former WWF broadcaster Sean Mooney! In this video, Sean shares his firsthand memories, behind-the-scenes perspective, and thoughts on one of the most stacked Survivor Series cards of the 1980s. From the Mega Powers drama to the classic 5-on-5 elimination matches, we revisit every major moment and the stories that shaped this unforgettable night in WWE history.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a Prime Time with Sean Mooney production.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Let yourself set chantal time and.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
They from co captains to Happy Thanksgiving. Welcome to the
Survivor Series nineteen eighty eight review right here on the
Golden Era Podcast with is Shawn Mooney?

Speaker 4 (00:29):
How you doing today?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm doing great. Interesting though event we're going to be
talking about. I really have kind of a love hate
with this one because to me, it was it was
a gigantic mash pit of an event, as I will
explain as we get into this. But I was busy

(00:51):
that day, that's for sure. So let's get into it now.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
This is your first Survivor series.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
You've been with the company since what May of nineteen
eighty eight, so this is your first Survivor series.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
Did you know anything about it? How you being prepped
about what Survivor series is?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, I mean they had one previously, so we kind
of knew what the whole concept was. I knew that
I wasn't going to be sharing Thanksgiving with my family
that day, but it was it was an interesting event
to be a part of because it was just there
was just so much going on all the time. You know,

(01:29):
where I was used to doing tag team interviews and
then also doing you know, the single one on one
kind of thing. Then suddenly you have to do these
massive interviews where you've got five different guys or more
in some game managers, yeah, that are involved in it.
And as I've said before, you're basically you're the MIC

(01:52):
stand you got to make sure that that MC gets
where it's supposed to be in the right order, and
so that's you know, your mission, and then be natural
about it all and make sure everybody gets their lines in.
So from my perspective, that was my concern because you know,
Vince was in on all of these as we've talked about.

(02:17):
He just was every detail and it was a relatively
new event in a sense, so there was more tension,
I guess, you know event. So I said, nothing can
go wrong, Well, yeah, a lot of things could go wrong,
especially when you're this young, basically green announcer who's still
trying to get his feet under him after all this.

(02:38):
So it was uh, yeah, I probably sweated through not
just my shirt but my.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Jacket, the blazers. Well, your nice nice suit that day. Nice, yeah,
it tucks, Yes, you looks great. Not a rocking up
mullet real one hundred percent. Yet it's growing, getting there,
it's getting there.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
You know you're trying, you're trying. But with interviewing five
people with managers, is there prep work? Are you setting
this up?

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Or we're all getting in a room going okay, well
you say you're one line that I pointed to you,
and you do your line, or is it all just okay,
let's go and each person jumps in when they find
a moment.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
No, and it's in one of these And most of those,
as I've said before, that they were loosely you know,
planned out that because these guys kind of knew what
they would say and you blocked it out in a sense.
But these, yeah, these were a little more involved because
you did have so many players in it. There were

(03:33):
so many you know, chess pieces on the board, so
they were a lot more meticulous about making sure that
everybody had the lines. What you're gonna say, and you
don't talk too long, and you get your point in
and get out. And so I want to I don't
want to say we did a rehearsal kind of thing,
but we did block it out and everybody had to

(03:55):
know what they were going to do. So and I
and I still remember that we didn't have many takes
real we really didn't, which is a credit to all
of those guys you know that too were able to
do that, and especially the number of interviews we did,
and we had to get them done, uh and knock
them out because you've got a lot of other things
you've got to do. These guys got to, you know,

(04:16):
get ready for their matches, and especially with the one
that we'll get into when you've got ten on ten
which I watched it again. I'm still astounded by those
matches when they do them, and to think that you know,
they had this wasn't some new concept they'd have these
these rumbles before kind of thing. But yeah, just just

(04:41):
just madness. And uh, I'm not I'm not a big fan,
as we've we've we've.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Discussed, yes, you have said you're not a bank fan
of MULTIMN matches and honestly, Savarvar series has a special
place in my heart.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
But then when you start watching some of these events,
you're wondering, why does my heart want me to love
these things so much?

Speaker 4 (05:01):
My eyes say I'm not really enjoying what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
It's you're right, it's a lot of just clubbing, blows,
tag somebody else in act. You come in, get your
shit in, tag them out, Like there is no planned.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Feels like spots. It's a lot of just Okay, well
we got a bunch of wrestlers, we got to get
our shit in. You're eliminated, you're eliminated, you're eliminated.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Versus years later, it's like, Okay, we're gonna set up
this storyline in this match which gets us ready for
WrestleMania or Royal Rumble. At this point, I feel like
the only connection to that is the Megapowers.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah yeah, And you also have to keep it by you.
As you just talked about that, how do you plan
these matches out? You really can't. And you know, professional wrestling,
a lot of it is a dance in there, and
these guys, once you've become a seasoned professional, once you
really know what you're doing in there, you could do

(05:54):
this all day. And it's everything from somebody where they
grab you on the wrist and what are they you know,
come up under your arm or whatever. You There's so
many options to do and these guys were really good
at it, and I really I liked watching that to
see once again, just uh, you know what talented athletes
these guys were. And I mean, when you think about it, there,

(06:18):
all of them were. They were just blown up. I
mean they were just huge, all of them. Even Jake
looked great that day.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Uh and and uh, you know, and to see them
be able to do and move the way they did
in the ring, and you know there was some of course,
some misspots, but overall, you know, these guys know exactly
what they're doing, but you can't you can't you can't
really plot these out. They know when they got to
get out. They didn't have at the time where you know,

(06:47):
like the referees have the earpieces, well back then they
didn't have them, and so a lot of it was
hand signals and they would have you know, a referee
stationed outside of the ring who would keep talking to
the timekeeper so they knew where they were because they
did have to keep you know, some kind of a
timeline on this, and these guys had an idea, Okay,

(07:08):
you're going out at this point, and they get a
you know, high sign to now it's time to go.
But that was a long way to go to work
that angle with the powers of pain and demolition. You
know that that was just I mean, and really think
about it, That's what that that whole thing was about.

(07:28):
And the other big point of this event to me,
And as I mentioned at the top, that was kind
of this mosh pit of an event, a mash well,
I felt that way about the talent, and you know
how much I loved to see our superstars get their
chance on the stage. And in this one, you know,
Coco Beware was in the main event. Uh so I

(07:51):
love that. But at the same time, it was just
such a collection of I don't want you know, I
hate the term mid carters, but in a sense it wasn't.
I was thinking, where were all of our guys, the
ones that really stood out to me, you know, and
and a lot of them had departed. You know, we

(08:13):
could we could go down the list of how many
guys weren't there through whatever reasons, being injured or unhappy
and moving on and and so you know, that's where
you end up with these guys that are that they
are are hooking up with these top card guys, and

(08:35):
a lot of it just didn't make any sense. And
then you got the conquistadors who almost outlasted everybody. I
was thinking of, like, I canna let these guys win.
I know we've got an angle here, but yeah, it
was just a massive collection and it really felt like they,

(08:56):
you know, took ping pong balls out of a basket.
As far as we're gonna match people up here, it was.
It was all over the place.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
I'm glad you said that, because yes, when you look
at the card, when you think of Golden Era wrestlers,
there's a lot at the Survivors series when you're like,
I don't consider you part of the Golden Era superstars.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
I consider you like.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
I don't know where it is like the beginning of
the Golden Era where it kind of gets forgotten about.
So let's break down the first matchup though, because you
have Ultimate Warrior Bruce Beefcake, two Golden Era wrestler. Then
you have Sam Houston, who's there for a cup of coffee, jumping,
Jim Brunzell, one half of the Killer Bees, and Owen Hart,
who is at the time the Blue Blazer. Okay, they're

(09:40):
taking on the.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Well Honey, the Honkey talk.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Man, Ron Bass, Dangerous, Danny Davis who used to be
a referee now who's a wrestler, Greg the Hammer, Valentine
and Bad News Brown.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Those are your why did the Brawler get screwed on this?

Speaker 4 (09:58):
I you wanted him in here?

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well maybe he wasn't the Brawler yet you know it,
But I get your point exactly, is like.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Like what Sam Houston, Jim Brunzell, Blue Blazer, Danny Davis,
Ron Bass doing here like the rest of them. Again,
nothing against any of those wrestlers, but in reality, when
you're looking at say a year from now, these people
aren't even hearing the company anymore.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
They're gone like that.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
It's just so weird that sometimes when you look at
wrestles like a Kempeterra, you're like, wow, look at them.
They're there and then you never see them ever again
because just timing contracts, disputes over money, and in this match,
their disputes here because originally Don Morocco is on Ultimate
Warriors team, well apparently he quit the company. Now the

(10:47):
reason behind this is he was fired, but he quit
as well, and this was during a European tour. He
was getting a drug test by at the time Nick
Bockwinkle and Don Maranco lost his mind on Nick Bockwill
streaming at him, even according to the Internet, calling him
a pecker Checker, and it was really Don Morocco failed

(11:08):
a drug test for steroids. He's out, so he quits
instead of getting fired. So in reality, is this a
common thing where wrestlers just getting caught in the act
and like, you know what, you can't fire.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Me, I quit?

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, But at the same time, too, there was
things worked out where they weren't exactly getting over. I
think Jyd was kind of the same situation that he
just wasn't you know, he'd been a superstar down a
Mid South and had just had never really happened with

(11:44):
the ww F WWE, and so he departed. I think,
I mean, you saw the shape he was, and so
you know it wasn't a steroid issue. But I think
that he thought that he'd go back and live the
glory because it's just for whatever reason, because you look
at and Jim Dougan talks about this how massively over

(12:10):
Junkyard Dog was at Mid South where he you know,
he would say he blew, he would blow the roof
off that arena and uh and sometimes the translation just
didn't happen. These guys would go and you'd think, man,
you know, look what they did there, so imagine what
they're going to do on this stage. Well, maybe that
stage was better suited for them. They read those crowds better.

(12:35):
They weren't used to a lot of people that were
in that crowd that weren't true you know, deep seated
professional wrestling fans, which was pretty much what our audience
was at that time. We've gotten a lot of people
who'd just been attracted to the whole you know, superhero
storybook type angles that we were working with this and

(12:58):
the characters. So when you had guys you know down
mid South that was that was you know, down dirty uh,
you know, professional wrestling. Uh. And people used to using
to see the use seeing the juice on the you know,
on the canvas, and.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
Oh yeah, riots being stabbed.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
People go, yeah, well and and yeah they using the
swat team to get you out to the ring and
back again. Literally they weren't just cops, you know, these
guys would come, they'd have riot gear on that it
was so rowdy. So uh. There were a lot of
different reasons, as you mentioned, Some of them were substance related,

(13:36):
but also there was just a way that you know,
it was kind of a mutual thing in a sense
that hey, it's just not working out here, and you know,
maybe if you go away and re establish or just
get you know, and maybe we get back at a
different gimmick. You know. It wasn't all nasty and like
fu but it was kind of like, well, it ain't
working here, and so I'm going to go away and

(13:59):
we'll see what happen. People see you down the road.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I like how Don Morocco though, was like Don the
Rock Morocco for a while originally and then like originally,
you know, as years ago one, people are like, don't
you know Rucky maybe isn't the first rock, like using
their comic book guy from the Simpson's voice on you
to correct you.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah, Morocco's out.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
He quits the company or fire depending on what you
look at that you mentioned, Jyd He was originally on
Drake to Snake Roberts's team, which we'll get to in
a minute, but they both are out of the company.
And I feel like there's a group of wrestlers Don Morocco,
Superstarbulary Graham, Bruno Sammartino.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
I feel like those three of the wrestlers who.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Did so much for the WWF, and then they don't
continue on into like the real highlight of the Golden era.
And I always found that weird where you have three
wrestlers so established, so popular, but yet either demons or
just wanting more power.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Didn't like how Hogan was the star. They wanted to
be the star.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Like did you see that a lot around this time
in the company where you're seeing the old guard upset
that the new guard's taking over?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Oh? Yeah, And it was a lot a lot of
the it was old school, and a lot of them
didn't like the direction the company was going in. But
at the same time, they just weren't capable. You mentioned Superstar,
who I had the great opportunity I got to work
with him and just loved him. He was so he
was very good to me. But he was not in

(15:22):
good shape then and even then, you know, I know
that his hip and it wasn't like he wasn't in
a situation where he was going to go you know,
so people like him, it wasn't like they were really
going to be have the ability to even do to
be a part of that. But you did have people
that just didn't like what Vince was doing with it now.

(15:45):
They they wanted to be a part of the fact
that they could make a lot more money. But you know,
a lot of them, you know, the train had left
the station at this point for you know, people like
Bruno and you know, come on, they these guys, no
question that laid the tracks, but they weren't going to

(16:06):
be part of this era's gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
It's so sad to see that happening.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
But Jim Brunzell replaces Don Morocco on this team now
and again, as I mentioned, Jim Brunzell a year ago
is in Survivors Series in the big tag team ten
on ten tag team match, the Killer Bees are there.
He's not a Killer Bee anymore. He's just Jim Brunzell.
And you know he was a big wrestler before coming

(16:30):
into the ww a former champion, just like his partner
beat Brian Blair, also part of the Killer Bees.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Try saying that three times fast. But yet it's hard.
It's hard. I just think it's.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Interesting what happens here is like you're replacing wrestlers who
are part of your match with people who you're not
used to seeing in the singles competition. Now they're part
of a big team and plus Owen Hart the Blue Blazer,
he's here, but right into the matchup, great the Hemmery
Valentine uh injures Owen.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Heart's we'll say blue blazer. According to we'll say testical.
If we can say funk, we can say testical.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Balls he had and go ahead and say it. He
had blue balls, Okay, for other reasons.

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Damn it. He told I had to write that joke down.
He stole my joke.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Brett Hart, though, later said that Owen's heart testicles swell
to the size of a softball.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
So it just sounds painful even hearing about. You know,
it's just it's it's like that natural thing. You see
a guy take a shot to the grain, and you know,
when you're a man, you can't help you. It's just
kind of ooh yeah, uh and god, I can't even
imagine the pain that that he must have been in
and it sidelined him for a while. But the Blue Blazer,

(17:54):
you know, we you're hearing about just how talented Owen was.
I mean, the guy was lighting up before he got
to the WWF. He was lighting up the professional wrestling world,
you know, going over in Europe and was you know,
a phenom in a sense because of the stuff. I
think he had kind of the same you know, hype

(18:14):
going around him that like Dynamite Kid had before he arrived,
and when Owen finally got there, they didn't know what
to do with them. And I always think the worst
thing you can do is you put a mask on
the guy and anytime feathers are involved or sequenced like that,

(18:35):
I mean, let put him out there, show people what
he can do, and hopefully they find the right spot,
the right gimmick for him. But it just didn't happen,
and then then he gets hurt, and I don't you know,
there were other things that had physically impacted him, so

(18:56):
it you know, the timing of it was just terrible.
And I really felt bad for Owen because and throughout
his career there, you know, I just thought, why can't
they figure this out? This guy is so good. I mean,
the stuff that he would do, you know, stuff he walked,
the ropes and the flips and the what's amazing, And
then imagine trying doing that with a cape on and
a mask, where I don't even know how you can

(19:19):
do that kind of stuff. It's like doing it in
the dark because you've got no peripheral vision. And yeah,
and he would would would do all this, but uh,
you know that was just so unfortunate. And then and
that was that was a big injury that had a
big impact on him.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Blue balls for the Blue Blazer, Yeah, b Brian Blair
and the Killer Bees.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
You know, I hated that gimmick.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
The weirdest thing about this whole entire pay per view, though,
is calls the and video puts out of the as tape,
but they edit all of the matches except which I
consider the most boring match, the ten on ten tag
team match. So if you got this call seeing video
of the Survivor series, you got kind of a highlight

(20:03):
reel of this matchup. You know, maybe, But not until
two thousand and nine when they did the DVD release
packages of all the Survivor series, is did you finally
get the full actual match?

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Why do this when you have capabilities.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
To put out at least two VHS tapes to make
double profits or change up the settings of a VHS
tape EPSP if you don't know, one could be longer,
one could be showed up with the quality was different
yet cut Why cut these matches but keep the tag
team match in full?

Speaker 1 (20:36):
That is to this day one of the greatest mysteries
because as you said, what we didn't really have a
time constraint on this. As you said, if you know,
if you only had they had I don't know if
they were ninety minute tapes that you could have and
then well a two tape set four. I mean, let's

(20:58):
be honest here with these coliseum videos, a lot of
those matches were not there were garbage matches. They were
these dark matches that I you know, but people ate
it up. It didn't matter what it was, It didn't
matter who it was. So anything they put out, people
were just you know, consuming and and you know, and

(21:20):
it wasn't even edited. Well like a lot of this
stuff was just these hard cut what I mean, I thought,
what that night did they bring in two cases of beer?
Whoever was editing and they had they wanted to get
to another party? I don't know because and and the
thing was too is if you look at those we
did a ton of interviews that were separate from the

(21:43):
live broadcast. Gene and I and I just I don't know.
I would love to find out what they were thinking
because there was no logic behind it. The matches weren't
that bad there. It wasn't a timing issue. It was

(22:03):
there was a lot of and a chance to have
all these different guys on these yes, on these tapes
and like what yeah it to me? I I to
this day, I still don't get it. And it was
it was horrible the way they did it, and people
still talk about it today of like what the hell, uh,

(22:24):
why did they they do that?

Speaker 4 (22:25):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (22:26):
And the fact that you said they did the the
tag team match was the one for in its entirety,
which was about forty something minutes long.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
That's like the whole damn tape.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Like what it's just you know, the axe handles and
the arm bars and and thank god they had I
think they had the one rule that you couldn't you know,
come in and break it up, uh, you know, because
that's what a lot of those tag team things would be.
You know, you're the tag guys, your guys getting pulverized

(22:59):
and then you come in your break it up. And
they had a rule there that you couldn't come in
and do that, which would have probably extended it to
an hour and a half if they let that go. Uh,
but it overall, like that's that's what everybody wanted to see.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Could kiss the doors, the big fan all.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Be in there for forty something minutes. Maybe I have
no answer for you that one, Steve, because I'm still
and then watching it. Uh some of the stuff now
and going my god. I mean, just from a producer standpoint,
did you even think about how this thing fat fit

(23:41):
next to this thing? You just went chop, okay, put
it in and let's get the hell out of here
and make it make a nice cover and we're all good.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, Like some people like disappear from the match, and
like sometimes I'm being bounced off the rope and out
of know where.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
It just hard cuts. Is something else happening?

Speaker 3 (23:56):
You couldn't like, let me bounce off the rope, come
back at clothesline, then you do it there, you're right
about that.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
I bet it was a thanksgiven night, you know, just
drink and have a good time.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I don't know. But one thing they did want to
point out is it just shows you how strong the
tag team division was, and it says that you could
put ten tag teams that were recognizable everybody. You know,
it wasn't just let's go to your you two are
going to be a tag team. You two are going
to know they these were you know, it's pretty absolutely

(24:27):
established tag teams. I love seeing the Bolsheviks, uh Steve.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
Steve Allen's favorite tag team.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
But yeah, the Rougos and which were heels at the time.
And I love the fact that when they came out,
you know that everybody's coming out, and they got the
tiny little American flags because they're going to be moving
to America, which was I thought it was boys, but
they're in a sense, they're they're trying to put themselves
over and and have the Americans love us. When when

(24:56):
in the sense you know you're you're burying it. You know,
you come out with a little flag, when you come
out with this big, giant American flag, and you know
it was just another little, you know, jab that put
them over the other backstage angled to this and I'm
sure you were going to bring it up, but I

(25:16):
did mention the Rigo brothers that the British Bulldogs were
also in that encounter. And I know all of our
historians out there know very well what was going on
between those two tag teams, and how it was strategically
done to make sure that these two tag teams didn't
end up really getting to see each other even backstage.

(25:39):
And it's I don't know if you caught it, but
early on in that match, Jacques and Dynamite actually go
at it in the ring a bit, not where they're
and you know everybody's watching. You know it's Dynamite because
Dynamite was known to he could he knew how to
deliver in the ring if he wanted to make it stiff.
But I think that he was under a really strict

(26:02):
direction from Vince that you try anything, I'll make sure
you never work in this business again. And uh, you know,
and there was, you know, a couple of encounters. The
Rougo Brothers went out early because Vince wanted them out
of the arena. He didn't want to take any chance
that these guys were going to run into each other backstage.
But whether it was planned or how it just went

(26:23):
with a tag whatever, but both Ray and Jacques did
a little dance in the in the ring with with Dynamite.
So I just thought that was pretty interesting to see
if you knew what was happening backstage. And I know
everybody else was back on Okay, anything's gonna go on here,
you know, because I know because my kid was just

(26:43):
he was a loose cannon. You never knew that he
might just say ef it and you know, Cranik a shot,
you know.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well, that's what's strange about this match too, is like
you're first off, I mean you mentioned Alton Warry is
the sole survivor of the first matchup if you didn't know,
So he's dominating there. This is really big for Paper
of View win this twenty man tag team elimination match.
I'm surprised that you'd actually allow Dynamite and Jock to
get in the ring together because obviously, yes, everyone's backstage,

(27:11):
and if you're watching this event while getting ready for
your match, or your backstage watching this events and you
see these two steps in the ring, I can only
imagine the reaction backstage going holy shit, like this happened backstage,
no fan saw this. What if this happens in front
of everyone's eyeballs on Thanksgiving Eve on Thanksgiving time? And
let's break down the tag teams for a second, because
you have Demolition, the Conquistadors now Conquista doors.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
At this time are not superstars.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
They are on TV putting over other big teams, so
very shocking to even see them here. The Brainbusters, the Bolsheviks,
the Fabulous Rougos, they're taking on the Heart Foundation, the Rockers,
the British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain in Young Stallions. Now
those are your teams. Fun fact is the first time
and only time ats Faverseeries that Chum Michaels and Brett

(27:56):
Hart are on the same team. They do Wrestleing Chub
They're at ninety two Serviceries and the World Championship match
they do by each other at Sarviaceries ninety seven Montreal
screw Job.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
So this is just a little fun fact for you.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
But again, when you're backstage watching this match, or anyone's
watching this match, are is everyone very concerned?

Speaker 4 (28:15):
What's gonna happen with the Bulldogs and the Rougeos?

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah? Oh yeah. There was definitely tension and any time
that they were in the same building, you didn't you
kind of had that feeling. That's something you know that
if Dynamite didn't let anything go with anybody, it was
always he was going to get even with anybody that
crossed him. Uh, he had that mentality, and so there was, yes,

(28:43):
absolutely the tension. But I also think which which you know,
you get into a little deeper with Vince McMahon here,
is that, you know, he had to control this circus
where you've got all these different personalities. And I don't
can't confirm this, but I just saw the way he

(29:05):
would do this once in a while where he would
you know, make an example in a sense out of
somebody to send the message to the rest of the
guys is you know, I'm the guy that's in control here.
And I almost think that he wanted to make sure

(29:26):
that there was some kind of these guys would you know,
meet up somehow in the ring and nothing would happen
because I'm in control here. I told that guy, if
it happens, you're done. And so the fact that Dynamite
went in there and followed the script didn't do anything

(29:47):
kind of sent the message to the guys that you know, hey, yeah,
we know who's really in control here. And you know,
like I said, both of them, ray En and dynam
and Jacques uh tangled with with Dynamite in there, and
it was brief and they did what they had to
do and then they would they got out and so,

(30:08):
uh that's just another example. You can't you know, just
imagine being Vince McMahon and uh, you know it's not
like it is today where most of these guys are
just you know, contracted performers. Yeah, not taking anything away
from their physical talent and their their talent, you know,
their everything they do. But back then, you you've got

(30:29):
a bunch of guys that you know, came from all
over the country, worked in these territories, and when you
had a beef, you didn't go to the promoter and say,
this guy's picking on me. It was okay, well let's
settle it in the ring or or what do you
want to do this backstage because it's going to happen.
And so it was a lot harder to control all

(30:51):
these personalities who've been used to uh settling it that way.
And you had a massive collection of guys just like that.
I mean, you could go down the list one after another,
bad News Brown and you know all these guys that
when it came down to it, they were kind of
like sid Justice too. I don't give it. I'm not
making enough, it's not worth enough to me. And your

(31:14):
your question you know, you're stepping in on my dignity.
It's a man and all that. You know that my
cheese mo. And so there was always that element that
there are I would just say fu and you know,
and Vince McMahon got took shots to the face more
than once from these guys who you know, weren't making

(31:36):
any money or whatever or felt that he didn't deliver
on a promise, and that's how they settled it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
I wouldn't want to compare them to like wild animals,
but you know, like an animal in the pound has
been doing something on the streets for so long, will
now vincon Man comes along, brings them in, has to
retrain them between their mind and their attitudes towards the business.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Because they came to going around like hey, let's go
beat drop in the parking lot.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
No, because you have to work tomorrow. And these fans
paid to see the rougeaus, the bulldogs. We can't have
to be walking around injureds because people are paying to
see you. And you know, and if you don't really
know about this, you know, Dynamite Kid was bullying Jock. Well,
Jock eventually is like, okay, you want to fuck with me, well,
roller Quarda's in his hand, punches dynamite in the face,
knocks out his teeth, and this sets up the Rougeau

(32:22):
Bulldog robbery backstage. And I've interviewed Jock about this, and
I think we even did a whole podcast about the
British Bulldogs about this whole scenario. We talked for like
forty five minutes about this exactual fight, how it separated
the locker room for a little while. But now you
have a match where they're actually in it together. And
I love how you put it together, where you're saying, well,
Vince is in charge. He's going to prove in front

(32:43):
of everyone in the world he's in charge by allowing
these two men to touch each other on television, and
Vince is going to control them and making sure they
play nice and not go into business for themselves, which
really shows you Vin's cracking the whip and you're listen,
no wrestler is bigger than the wrestling business, and I
think vincik Man always tried to make sure people understood that.

(33:05):
I know that's why probably him and Hogan had such
a beef as years would go on, because maybe Hogan
did become bigger than the business, and Vince did not
like that because he wanted to maybe possibly take credit
a sum for creating whole comania in the whole Cogan brand. Possibly.
But this match does not get edited. As we mentioned,
it goes forty minutes. It's actually on YouTube as well

(33:26):
if you wanted to watch the whole thing that did upload,
you know, Hogan's match or Warriors match.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
They're like, hey, you know what, the kids want to
watch this.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'm sorry, nobody all to see mister Fuji to a
double turn X with the cane and the double turn Yeah,
and that's the same way to go.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, forty minutes to get to mister Fuji helping out
Powers of Pain and then Demolition beating up mister Fuji
in the end. Now we have Demolition as babyfaces Powers
of Paint our heels.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
I interviewed the world about this.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
He was not happy about this because he felt like
it hurt his bottom line because now little kids aren't
telling their dad to go buy them Powers of Pain
merch because they're bad guys. They're telling their dad to
go buy Demolition shirts because they're good guys. Powers of
Pain did win the match, but how often I know,
this is like a different business where you're trying to

(34:19):
make sure the world knows you actually are a bad
guy or you actually are a good guy. But in reality,
it's a business. You're trying to make money. Wor Lord
and Barbarian obviously lose money by turning. He like you
a hear the stories of people refusing because they realize
the bottom line of their money is going to be
completely ruined.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Well, I'm sure they tried, but yeah, but I don't
remember anyone really being successful at doing that. You pretty
much did what they wanted you to do. If you
wanted to keep working, now, you could explain, you know,
you could plead your case, and maybe in some instances
they went, eh, you know, maybe that makes more sense.

(34:56):
I think that that did happen. But if they were
set on you turn or however they were going to
do or work for a storyline too, you know, they
saw that demolition was uh, you know, getting reception and
getting really over and so let's let's turn them. So
uh yeah, and and and also I'm sure when it
comes down to it, you know, babyface or heel, what

(35:20):
an opportunity for the warlord? Uh you know, what an
opportunity for bar Barbarian to get that push. It didn't.
It never really worked. And I that was, you know,
an example to me, Steve, of where you're trying to
force something and as we've learned time and time and

(35:43):
time again that you can't do it. Uh, it's all
up to those folks in the seats out there. And
that was another classic example. I mean they have them,
you know, when that whole thing and it just was
always want wanh wanh you know, just really happened and
you got to have that personality and Warlord did get

(36:05):
better at cutting promos. Barbarian was always who he was.
I loved him, but you had to have somebody like,
you know, a manager with them to try and put
them over. And when it really comes down to it,
you got to be able to carry you know, the character,
that's what I used to call. You got to carry that.

(36:25):
And you know, Undertaker was a classic example in a
sense that you know earlier, I mean, how many words
did he say but in peace? But when he but
he didn't have to that that personality, that that presence
that he had was so powerful that you know, Paul

(36:46):
Barrow was great for it. But let's say he didn't.
I don't think that it would make that much of
a difference because he was so over and didn't have
to say that anything. So it all comes down to
carrying that character, it really does. Can you put that
gimmick over? And uh, Powers of Pain was just not
going to happen. I never did want.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
I want to ask you a quick question and maybe
you know you don't know the Conquistadora's names. Do you
remember what their actual names were?

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Jose Estrada No no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
There wrestling like they're wrestling character names.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Oh no, I knew it was Jose Luis Rivett, I
was the other one, yea one and two. But you
know that was that was kind of but that was
kind of along the lines of Mexican Luta Daughter's you
know that they would it was you know, you would
be the you know, the the crusher one. But that

(37:48):
is that's that's hilarious. And I know if you ever
saw the the warehouse bit I did with Peter Rosenberg
that we did for the the Anniversary episode, and they
had the Conquista doors in it and they and it
was one of the funniest parts of that whole bit.
Uh as they come out with, you know anyway, because yeah,

(38:14):
you know and those and they they c.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yes, that's all they think. That's how they spoke, I guess,
you know, but hilarious.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
But but I have to think was it a rib
to have them, you know, be like the last tag
team in that match? I just have to think it was.
I just see Pat and them just and Bruce thinking
it was hilarious, like what what the Conquista doors last
this whole thing, you know, because they got the crap
beat out of them and you're like you what, you know,

(38:44):
the shoulders up, like what what? So I think it
was I think it was a rib just to have them,
you know, last to the end, and.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
You know, in Dose go to the end like they're
the second to last team in the matchup. The Powers
of Pain do win this and it's hilarious because everybody
has a manager. You have Slick, you have Jimmy Hart,
Bobby Hayenen and mister Fuji all at ringside for that matchup.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
But this is the end of the British Bulldogs.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
They're out of the company after this, and recently some
pictures have popped up Vince McMahon visiting Japan around this time,
a few months after this, and the Bulldogs are competing
there and I saw the story was amazing.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
I was shota.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
I never saw these photos before, and Vince's backstage in
Japan and the Bulldogs are in these photos, and then
the caption was Vince McMahon walks in it.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
Like, oh, Bulldogs, when you're coming back?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
And according to the story, Dynamite Kids said, We're never
coming back. You see you next Tuesday. Well, Davy Boy
Smith comes back and he does has a pretty decent
run in the WWF. Done my kid, He is done
with the company. Next matchup, though, is Jake Snake Roberts
his team versus under the Giants team. As you mentioned before,
some of these wrestlers you're wondering why are they here,

(40:01):
and so far we've discovered conquistadors and Sam Houston and
Tom Bass. But in this match you have Jake to S,
Nick Roberts, Hacksaw, Jim Duggett, Tito Santana.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Makes sense to me. Also on the team is Ken Petera.
If you don't know, he has an amazing story about
beating up a bunch of police officers.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
And Scott some time.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Yeah, two years.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
And according to Kemp Petera, while he was in jail
for two years, Vince McMahon paid him the whole time
while he was in jail. And when people give Vincecman
shit for all the things he's ever done in this world,
when I heard that story, I thought, wow, like he
didn't have to do that at all.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
But he did a lot.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
And there's countless numbers of stories that just showed thee
But it also showed you just how uh, you know,
what a unique character Vince McMahon is that you just
you know, he would do horrific things and just humiliating
things to people. And then at the same time he
was he took care of a lot of guys that

(41:02):
you know, Freddie Blassie was forever ambassador and they continue
to pay him. And Freddie would just, you know, as
I told you, stories of us hanging out because he
lived in Scarsdale, and we would go to all of
these events because he was in the area. And every
year they'd put him in a helicopter and he'd go
to the Macy's Day Parade and I mean he just

(41:24):
was and Vince, I mean Freddie there wasn't a whole
lot Freddy could do. Freddy's every piece of his body
was fused together. But you know, he still had it.
And but Vince kept him on the payroll because and
countless other guys. So he had the side of him

(41:45):
that a lot of people don't know that much about.
But that's one of the examples like that, him paying
Ken Petera. And it wasn't something he publicly, you know,
made sure everybody knew about, no, but you know he
did that for a lot of those guys. And oh
guys that went in with him early and stuck by

(42:05):
him and were loyal, Well he was loyal right back to.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Them, Kem Petera. Again, he had a wife and a
child at the time.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
So if you man ended up paying the whole time,
so you know this, his house still has a mortgage
while he's in jail.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
You know, they still need to eat.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
And Vin's paid that entire time, and they used at
his jail time is a storyline when he got back
and the debut he didn't work out for him there.
But Scott Casey's also on Jake the Snake Roberts's team
now originally on Jake's team, you have jyd Well. He
quits because he sees more opportunities somewhere else. He is
replaced by b Ryan Blair of the Killer Bees. He

(42:40):
also quits the company because they want him to turn
heel eventually, and he says, no, I don't want to
do that, so he's out. They both get replaced by
Scott Casey. Scott Casey is an enhancement talent weekly on
Superstars and Wrestling Challenge.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
And Primetime Wrestling. So just like Contiques Casadores, you're like,
damn it, we're running out of people. We got to
throw some in there. Scott Casey. Why why Scott? You
couldn't find anybody else?

Speaker 1 (43:09):
No, obviously not the you know, I said the roster
was a bit thin at the time as far as
recognizable names, and uh, you know, I'm surprised I usin
get eighty eight. I thought we were stronger then, but
you know, that was further down the road when we
had you know, and some of these guys became more established.

(43:33):
But yeah, it was kind of like, Okay, he's a
good hand, Okay, put him in there.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, that's just it's shocking, you see it, like everyone's
coming down the Island and you see Scott Casey, who's he? Yeah, yeah,
Who's Who's this guy? Is this the guy who lost
a Dino Bravo on Superstars ten thousand times in a row.
But on on Andre's team you have on a giant
Dino Bravo, Rick Rut, Harley Race, mister Perfect. So established

(44:00):
teams right there, all great wrestlers, all great talented wrestlers.
I always enjoyed them. This is all about how Andrea's
afraid of Jake Snake, and Andre's health is obviously always
a concern.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Every time we went to the Seeds, But like, how long.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Did they think they could just keep pushing Andre out there?

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Because Rustumania is six in nineteen ninety is the end
of Andre's real run in the company because he can
no longer physically continue doing this. Even in this match,
he is holding onto the top rope all doing moves.
He's not active like Wrestumenia three. The dude is in
the middle of the ring. He's not standing by the
rope the whole time, chopping Hogan. Like, at one point

(44:40):
do you think, like maybe we shouldn't keep doing this,
but Andre wants to keep going, so.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
We allow this to keep happening.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, I mean, I mean he didn't really Actually, he
wasn't totally gone for a number more of more years,
you know, I think it was ninety two or ninety
three before.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
He passes a ninety three, but he's no longer active
after nineteen nineties, done wrestling, yeah, physically, but he.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Was still around. And yeah, but as we've talked about,
you know, Andre, that was that's all he had in
a sense, and it was it was tough for him
to want to go away. He didn't want to. He
wanted to, uh, maybe not make as many appearances, but
he didn't want to just not be seen anymore. And

(45:28):
so you know, Vince had this very difficult situation of
wanting to protect him in a sense that in his
image and his lasting legacy not to be this crumpled
giant with an obvious pain all the time. And but

(45:48):
you know, but Andre didn't want to let it go
because he loved that atmosphere. He loved being a part
of it. And so they would find things for him
to do where he would not have have to be
really active in the ring and make him part of
the storyline. But it was it was sad to watch
that whole period of time, and I wish I would

(46:11):
have been around him when he was younger, because I
know Lord Alfred Hayes telling me he remembered him as
a seventeen year old kid who could bounce all over
the ring. He said he was an incredible athlete. He
played soccer. He was, you know, a very talented athlete.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
Doing dropkicks, yeah, videos, right, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
A lot of the stuff. If you see stuff with
him performing in Japan. I mean, he was all over
the ring and could do everything. But when you're carrying
around that much weight and your body is taking a
beating like that, it gets beat down a lot earlier
than others. And by the time, you know, Andrea was

(46:51):
near forty, he was already a wreck. So you know,
I think that we all were hoping and praying that
that that maybe not necessarily is going to be the ring,
but he was going to live a lot longer. But
you know, that was that was just a fact. People
that are that have that disease don't live for a

(47:13):
long time, and that was certainly the case with Andre.
And it wasn't like he really took care of himself either. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
Good, Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
You know, he is a giant, so he's just like, well,
this is the time where you can be big and
that's all you really need, haystat calhouns or you know
if people king Kong buny and things like that, like
you just a big dude, Hey, you should be a wrestler,
and that it was kind of still the circus where
now I wouldn't say the freaks, but like if if
you were really tall or really big, boom, you can
make a living in this business because it was about
traveling to town to town, being an attraction versus being

(47:44):
being an athlete.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, and there weren't and it wasn't like the crowd
was going to be disappointed that he didn't do something
right right everybody, but you know, everybody understood in a
sense what his limitations were and if he would if
he would get out there, you know, and you know,
he's the arm on somebody, and you know, he wasn't
gonna be go taking these big bumps and he was

(48:05):
gonna get tight up in the ropes or whatever it
was gonna be. But that's all he had to do.
It was just him being out there and people seeing
him and uh, thee. The fans understood that that's a.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Good point too, missed the perfect in Youno, Bravo are
the survivors in this matchup. But Rick Rude, he's wearing
some lovely tights. He always know, he was always known
for amazing tights. Well this one particular Servis series, he's
wearing tights with a woman's hands or grabbing his crotch
in his ass, and uh, apparently people loved it backstage,
but I cually imagine when you know, you bring a

(48:36):
little yeah, yeah, cover your eyes, Timmy, what doing on daddy?
Like there's a hands What were the thoughts behind this?
Because there's always these rumors. I know Jake and Rick
Rude had a storyline where Rick Rud was hitting on
Jake's wife and put her face on his crotch and yeah,
the room is that we don't knows whose hands these

(48:57):
are grabbing his crotch and backside?

Speaker 4 (49:00):
What do people think of these?

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, they loved them. But at the same time, it
wasn't you know, the attitude era. It wasn't we weren't
in the gutter yet. It was very family friendly, is
uh uh you know, we we know what's going on
at the time. We we love those crowd shots and
the kids with the whole whole comania banners on and
you know, the foam fingers, and then you got Rick

(49:25):
Fruit with a very suggestive uh. And the person that
did his tights was really good.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
But he loved pushing it. And I I just had
to wonder that day, did I don't think vinceas it
was kind of like one of those what the hell
is that? What is he doing? And there's also you know,
the great story that you know, they went on Live
with Regis and Kathy Lee with Bobby and and Rick

(49:53):
had tights with Regis on his ass, I think, and
and uh and Kathy Lee's face on his crotch and
she left the set. She was visible, like visibly upset
by the whole thing that, you know, and and offended.
But he, yeah, he loved doing that, that whole bit
with him and the hips out there and you Hillbilly's

(50:15):
out there with your boyfriend. You know, you want to
be here with me, And yeah, it worked, But that
that day, I know that, you know, it was kind
of a lot of those things everyone's going to like,
Vince see those you know, like who and goes out
there and let's see those hips hands. Vince was like,

(50:35):
what the hell you know? Not that he didn't love
the toilet humor. I mean, there's no question about it,
but Vince was wasn't good for business. I think in
the way he was thinking about it. So but he
got away with it.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
When you're selling like bed sheets and you know, little
toys and Action face and wrestling buddies, and you got
one of your guys buddies women's hands grabbing your dick
and your ass, well that might be a problem.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
We're here. The main event is the Megapowers versus a
Twin Towers team.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
It's Hult Cogan and Rainey Savage Coco Beware he'll Billy
Jim and Hercules versus Big Boss Man a Keem, million
Dollar Man, Haku and.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
The Red Roosters on this team.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Now, the whole concept behind Somevivisiers usually is a team
captain and then they have a team. In this particular match,
we have co captains. The rumor is we have co
captains because we don't want Hul Cogan to be beneath
Machaman who is the world champion, or we don't want
Macha Man beneath hot Cogan.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
You don't hulks team in the champion.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
How much thought went into that. We're like, well, we
have egos, we can't piss off anyone here. Let's make
sure that both men feel like they're the captains, they're
co captains.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Like did that actually make anyone happy?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I think because remember they're working at the angle here,
they're starting to work that angle with Elizabeth who's in there,
and the tension between the Hulk Cogan and and Randy.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
So yeah, it made made sense. I don't think anybody
objected to the fact. Why wouldn't Why wouldn't the you know,
the champion be a captain and the whole Cogan was
whole Cogan, And so I think that the the only
thing that really didn't stand out is, of course at
the end, Hogan must pose. Uh. So there was always

(52:21):
that that that shoot of uh, you know, whether you
like it or not, I'm I'm the king, I'm the king,
I'm the real king here and uh and and Terry
always had to have that. It was basically, you know,
there were certainly times where he you know, would put
people over, but the bottom line was is that just

(52:44):
know that when it all comes down to it. I'm
the king maker and so when when when the last
shut thing in? What people remembering is, you know, the
whole Hulk and that was very important to him. And
I'm sure you know Randy knew how things work, but
I I'll guarantee you I believe that you know, it

(53:07):
irked him. It was like, you know, can you just
give it up once in a while.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Yeah, I'm the world champion. Don't you want me to be?

Speaker 1 (53:16):
You know, health, that's how you put that's how you
elevate everybody else. And you know, selfishly, I think in
some ways, you know, Terry didn't was going to do that,
and whether it was Randy or anybody, but you know,
that was business too. Like Arry was going to do
everything he could. He had to take care of Hulk

(53:37):
ink and that's what the whole business is about.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
It is interesting that so much hate lands on Hulk
Cogan as long as like in life, in and death,
because of the way he used his power in politicking
to get these moments of being able to pose say
by himself, or being able to be a co captain
when he's not world champion. And if you're a whole
Cogan and your his friends and you're his family. They're

(54:02):
not going like, hey, you shouldn't do that. They're thinking, yeah,
keep doing that, because while you do that, you help us.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
And I get it.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Savage is the world champion. So if I was matching man,
of course, it's like any job. If you are, say
the manager at your job, as Machaman was saying, the
manager is the world champion.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
But you have an employee that.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Everybody loves more than everybody thinks it's better than you.
And yet you're supposed to be the head honcho, but
yet no one thinks you are. That must have eaten
Matchhimen alive.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Yeah, but let's not forget. And you mentioned that about
how business works. But you know this is even more
so that you're on your own and you got to
fight and scratch for every inch you get, and you
turn your back or or don't keep up that pressure

(54:52):
or you know, persistence, then you're gonna lose. You're gonna
fall back down the down the ladder. And you know
you got to give those guys credit. Uh, you could
say what you want about Terry Belia I went and
how he conducted business, but that's what kept him on
top for as long as as he was. And and

(55:14):
same with Randy. Randy did the same thing in his
own way. But it was that's that's how it worked, uh,
And and Vince kept it that way. It was not
a team sport. It's just not that. It wasn't like
you know, teams at the corporate level or something. Sorry,
you know, it all comes out as long as you're
an earner for me will take care of you. If

(55:35):
you're not, I got somebody else. And so that's that's
the way it was. They never that's there was no union.
There was no uh, you know, taking care of your
you know, you took care of your buddies, but there
was no uh, you know, Okay, now it's your turn.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Right And especially I saw Chelsea Green to an interview
about this recently where she said, you could be the greatest,
you could try the hardest and works as much as
you can.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
It doesn't matter because it's vinsic Man's show.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
If he thinks that you maybe you're working as hard
as you can and you do the best work you can, well,
he doesn't.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
See it that way.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
It's a one man show in reality, and he wants
what he wants and he doesn't give a shit if
you're trying as hard as you can, because Hogan is
the one still. Look look out what we see yellow
T shirts everywhere? Look at the action figures, the foam fingers,
the bandana. Is he's selling the merch? Hey, you know,
maybe Sam Houston is working double shots and doing all
this great work. Well guess what you're not bringing in
the merch?

Speaker 4 (56:29):
Well, we don't care.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
That's all numbership.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah, And I think people forget about that part where
in football or basketball it's really based on athletic skill. Yeah,
It's like if I beat you in basketball, it's athletic
skills that I beat you in basketball.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
This is you have to have the look, you have
to have the right touch, the right time, the it factor.
It's not based in real skill. It's based in talent
of being a great performer. In Hogan, whatever you think
of him, an amazing performer. And that's why he's in
this where he is.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
If I was notching man, of course I'd be angry.
I'm the world champion, But why am I not on
every poster by myself? Why am I not everywhere by myself?

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I get it, But then you got to be a
shark too. That's another part of that mentality is that
you you know you could, you could have all of that,
but if you aren't willing to, you know, cut the
line and do whatever you gotta do to stay up
there on top, you you're gonna get knocked right off
that mountain because somebody will.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
And like in this whole card, you realize some of
these names are not gonna be household names or not.
Scott Casey's not going home and with a million dollar check, no,
like he after this event.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
It's like where Scott Casey go, you know, in the future.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
When you think of Wrestler's Top ten, Top twenty, Hogan
and Savage are on that list.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
Some names aren't.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Why are some names on the list because they were
ruthless when they had to stay on top. They weren't
gonna let someone else step on them. They were gonna
step on you first.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
And I think people forget that all the time about
wrestling or just in life in general, where if you
won't step on that guy, he'll step on you first.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Jake Roberts classic example. You take somebody like that who
didn't have the drive and the ruthlessness and the you know,
creativeness and all that. He could have been a very
very mediocre wrestler, low card guy forever, but that wasn't
Jake Roberts.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
No, He's one of the best of all time.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
And during this this matchup though Big Boss Man, he
gets huging on the outside, he handcuffs him to the
bottom up and beats the living crap out of him
with his night stick, and he he's taking some liberties
with those with these shots. He's a little I'll tap
you a little bit. This is one of those first like,
oh my god moments where ears would go on. Where

(58:42):
you see you know, Repo Man hanging the British bulldog
by a news by his hook. You see Jake with
a King Cobra biting. Is this like really one of
the first moments I'm like, oh, this is not a
kid friendly moment.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah. No, then, and I think that kind of reverberated
around that people are like, wow, did you see that?
You know it wasn't just a cup you know, a
shot and laid across the back. You know he was
doing you know, punching them with it. Yeah, headshots that looked.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
Like choking them with it like, yeah, yeah, it's an
endless beat down.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, And I think that they they that was intended,
at least on the part of you know, Big boss
Man and Hulk too. Hulk wanted like, yeah, you know,
let's lay it in, make this look really good, and
they pulled it off because a lot of people were
really kind of like, oh my god, you know, that
was brutal, and uh, you know, boss Man was really

(59:39):
good on that thing with that stick, and really he
could make it look like like he just walloped the
guy across his skull and guy never felt a thing.
And it was the same as you know, the way
you know, you see guys that are really good at
punches and that timing and you know, and that's you
really had to be good at that, and you had

(01:00:00):
to really trust the guy you were working with that
you know, that that was doing that. And boss Man
was one of those guys you could here. I mean
he was he was really good at.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
It, and like while this is happening, oh my god,
he sold it like someone was shooting in the face.
But while this is going on, Macha Man is also
getting beaten up, and this again is starting the friction
of the mega Powers where Savage is looking for a tag, Well,
Hogan's handcuff from the bottom. Savage, come on, dude, like
I need to tag you, Like what are you doing
down there getting beat up with a come on? Can
you help me out? So like they're they're teasing these

(01:00:32):
little bits here and there having the Mega powers explode.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
But as the DVD releases have we talked about how
this Survivors series is edited terribly for the VHS release. Well,
when the DVD's come out later, you're all excited, I
can't wait to watch this. It's full, it's I got
to see all the matches.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
We get to this matchup and Cocoa Beans wears ass
is blurred out the whole time, and you're thinking, is like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
His dick Hank, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Like did he have ravishing Rick Rude's artists?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
That's not blurred on his crotch there, But Cocoby Ware
has the WWF logo on his ass company man all
the way through. But in when the DVD is released
in two thousand and nine, well, the World Wildlife Fund
has already sued the WWF for the name brand. We
have switched to WWE, so we cannot show that logo.
So if you have the two thousand and nine DVD releases,

(01:01:22):
Coco's ass has blurred.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
The whole time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
And this is really just stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
It's just stupid because it involves the website.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Apparently the WORLDLD World Wildlife Fund got the rights to.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
The website before WWF.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yes, why couldn't you just I don't know, like, instead
of smelling out WWF dot com, why don't just called
it World Wrestling Federation dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Well, yeah, but when it came down to it, and
let's just say, Okay, they win the lawsuit, they get
the rights to WWF. But part of that deal would
have been, look, all right, fine, we gotta you know,
we're gonna change the w W what we're gonna do.
But to say, look, everything we've done to this point,

(01:02:06):
we're not going to magically eliminate. So it's gonna show
up because it's from a different erape before this happened.
And if it's out there, who cares? Do you think
anybody's gonna confuse that cocob ware has got WWF on
his ass because he's trying to promote the World Wildlife

(01:02:27):
Fund And why not? Then okay, then maybe then look
what we're promoting the WWF for you. It was just
and you've seen the man hours, the person hours, you
know it took to eliminate all of that. It's just
so stupid. It just makes no sense to me. It

(01:02:51):
should have just been okay, from moving forward, anything that
we do will not have a WWF logo on it.
But give us a break. We've been at this for
a while. There's a lot of material on video and
and and other things. We uh, you know, will take
down whatever we can from our websites and all that,

(01:03:11):
but everything else out there, come on, give us a break.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
It was truly insane because I remember buying the WrestleMania
anthology was the first twenty WrestleManias, and all the turn
buckles for like at least I don't know, like six WrestleManias.
The logos are on the turn buckles, that's three in
each courage. Every time they every time they showed a
turn buckles spot and again these are y camera shots
close ups they blurted out. It ruined the experience of

(01:03:36):
watching these events because no longer were they intact.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Not anybody would have noticed it or paid any attention.
And you know today, when you edit, you can track it,
you know, you know, if you want to blur something
and you put to you know, I don't know exactly
how it works, but I've seen how people do that
and then it'll automatically do it. Well back then, uh,
they didn't have anything that did that really attracted. So

(01:04:00):
if the thing moved, you would have to keep you'd
have to manually go wherever it went to blur it out.
And it was a long process. You're talking, you know,
hours and hours. It's just stupid. Anyway, that's a good
side note to all that, but it really made no
sense to me, and big deal. Maybe they liked the

(01:04:23):
fact that every time it was blurred, people would say,
well why is that, and then somebody would tell them
the story of the World Wildlife Fund. I don't know,
but good lord.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Yeah, we weren't using panda bears with Kocobe wears ass well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
And then also the whole thing is that you know,
we do it, I do it that when we talk
about it, it's like we mentioned WWF, like, oh, I
mean WWE. Well it wasn't WWE back then. It was WWF.
But you know, everybody, all the wrestlers today. Hear them
talking and they'll say, you know, back in nineteen eighty

(01:04:57):
whatever the WWE was it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
It's like, I know, you really want to say w
W I always will say w w F on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
No, I will not do with the disclaimer in there.
I mean, you know WWE, But I just think you
recognize what it was and it was part of an
era and things changed and then it became the w
w E. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
I will never even like Twitter and X. I'm sorry,
it's Twitter forever for me. Folks call it X all
you want, but it's not what do you call it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Yeah, it's not. You can't say it's a tweet anymore.
It's what is it? An X? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
I'm not going to get. We're not going to get
sue by Ela mosqu here alright, and what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Is it? When somebody they they tweeted you, you could
say that, but what do they xed me? I guess
so confused.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
Well, I'm still confused.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Why we're talking about Coocobee Wears asked more than Cold
and match a man Raandy Savage, But that's just me. Obviously,
the Mega Powers do win the match up, and we
do see savage, hurt and discourage, but there's Hogan posing,
and more Elizabeth lurking, and more eyeball looking and more
is they're lust in those eyes.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
We're still continuing that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Started at Summer Slam eighty eight, the first ever Summer Slam,
and then here we are the second Survivors series, continuing
on that and they get it, builds to Rumble eighty nine,
builds off on that main event match where Machman gets
thrown out of the ring and the lands on Elizabeth
and Hogan's backstage. We've talked about that a little bit
here and there, but this is really again another breadcrumb

(01:06:35):
and the loaf of the Mega Powers exploding storyline.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
So the biggest thing about that crum Yeah, yeah, I
just made it up right now. Yeah, use use it tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
At work when you talk about politics. I just think
it's funny, though how chopped up this event really was.
Like again, it's very strange that happened. But all in all,
this is I think I've noticed over this course of
talking about it, this is the end of the rocking
in Wrestling era, where we had Don Morocco on Saturday

(01:07:09):
morning cartoons on the Rock and Wrestling Connection cartoon. We
had Tito on there as well. That part's over. We
no longer have that era. We are in the whole
Carmania Golden Era. We're only going up here, We're not
going back down. So for you, like, the Golden Era
obviously is going on now, but is this just truly
the end of another era inside of the Golden Era?

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Yes? Yeah, And as we talked about earlier, that the
roster at the time was a little thin. They hadn't
really established the superstars. I mean, I think at one point,
you know, there was forty superstars that were just household names,
you know, and so and I'm based, I'm basically a
newcomer to this and uh and and you know, I

(01:07:55):
feel blessed that I that I came in when I did,
because then I feel like, you know, the beginnings, it
was about Whole Comania, but it was just Whole Comania.
It wasn't really all these other things going on. Well,
Randy is getting, you know, really established, and then you're
gonna eventually see the emergence of people like Sean Michaels

(01:08:17):
and and Brett Hart on his own and and all that.
So there's a lot going on but you're exactly right.
It was. It was another beginning, I think in a sense,
and uh, I really I just thought, when I look back,
what a great time to be a part of the
w w F. Then right then, Yeah, and we still

(01:08:41):
had the tag teams. It was that was still very strong,
But then you started to see some of these other
personalities really start to, uh come to the forefront and
become household names among all of the fans out there
that can that base continued to grow. So, yeah, you're
you're I felt exactly the same way that it was

(01:09:01):
really coming into what would become as we refer to
all the time as the Golden Era.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Yeah, and that's what we call this podcast right here
on the Golden with Sean Mooney. And again, this is
your first Survivor series, and you know we've talked about
so many other events, but for you, before we wrap
this up, what does this Harvisaries mean to you personally?
Not as a talent working there, but for you personally,
because this is your first one, You've only been there
for about six months. How are you feeling mentally after

(01:09:28):
this event and then rewatching it again?

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Well, that is a great question, and I got a
chance to look at some of these early interviews that
I did, and I could just see how I was developing.
I was getting more comfortable. And one thing that was
great about these events, these events is that it gave
me the opportunity to do a lot of work and

(01:09:51):
work with a lot of different people, and so I
could see whatever, you know, my shtick or my development
was happening. And I do remember a conversation having with
Vince that I really liked some of the backstage stuff
where because I kind of looked at it. My viewpoint

(01:10:12):
was doing a you know, a backstage interview with a
professional athlete, you know, say it was a professional baseball
player or a football player or something like that. And
Vince said, yes, that's right, but you remember your take,
it's got to be to another level. It's always with us,
it's another level. And I saw that, you know, that
was a little too casual almost, you know, it's almost

(01:10:33):
kind of like the hand in the pocket kind of
a thing. And if you'll see, from that point on though,
it was always you know, the energy was was completely different,
and so that was, you know, it was all part
of my development. But I did really like doing these
events because you know, the pressure was on and you

(01:10:55):
would be in these mass interviews and I always felt like,
you know, once you got when I got through with
those and successfully, yeah, and everything went well, and that
belt that would build your confidence. And I just could
see I started getting more and more comfortable, more and
more confident, And it was because of doing these kind
of events, because it was you know, you had to nail.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
It, especially between you know, eight different people with wrestlers,
with managers, the mass, the bo maybe even surrounding you
backstage while interviewing is a hygiene.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
Well for these wrestlers.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
No, a lot of baby oil. I remember, a lot
of smells. Yeah, the few were a little more fragrant
than others who didn't watch those tights as often.

Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
But aball rom bass, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Yeah, I think the ropes probably smelled more than anything
but the last. But anyway, you know, as I always
have said, you know, you didn't want to be the guy,
and that screwed it up. And so it was tremendous
training for me, and I leaned back even to this

(01:12:09):
day of those days that after that, no matter what
I did, there was never pressure that I felt like
I did then. And when you could you know, as
I always say, you know, answer the call, stand in
front of that red light and go and get it done.
There's nothing like that that then, the way it was then.

(01:12:32):
And I've done a lot of things, but that was
that was tough. With Vince McMahon in the room with
the arms folded and looking at you, and you're like,
I can't be the guy.

Speaker 4 (01:12:42):
Nope, nope.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Well my god, Well, thank you so much for sharing
your stories about the nineteen eighty eight Survivor series, your
first Survivor series.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
You know, I'm thankful this year. If you're watching this
on Thanksgiving or in the future in ten years, you know,
I'm thankful for Sean Mooney sharing his amazing knowledge here
today about the nineteen eighty eight cyvibusseries.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
And again, if someone loves this event, I hope you
enjoyed our show. If you hate this event, I hope
you enjoyed our show as well. But remember Kokoobe where
his ass was blurred out with d your imagination. Whose
hands were on Rick Rude's ass, We'll never know, But
thanks for being here on the Golden Our podcast. For
Sean Mooney, I'm stee fall he Shaw Mooney have a
wonderful day, and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Ba ba.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Let your steps the chant time and Berty