WWE Survivor Series 1992:Ultimate Warrior Fired - Sean Mooney Shares All - Prime Time with Sean Mooney

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
No Warrior, no Hogan, but we have Macho man. It's
Survivor Series nineteen ninety two. Mooney, how you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm doing great. How are you doing, Steve? It's been
a minute. We're almost a week I think since we chatted,
So now are you pal?

Speaker 3 (00:15):
I am doing great in today.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Savy Series nineteen ninety two is very special because I
have watched all the superstars that have built up to
this moment, and when I get to this moment, it's
Vivus Series ninety two.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
MM.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
It did not deliver what I wanted it to as
a fan. But we're talking about the backstage drama at
this event as well.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
But this is the first Svivor series.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm going to start off right off very angry about
this show. There's only one traditional Survivor Series match. It
is filled with tag team matches, one on one nightstick
coffin matches. Why do you think this year particular they
finally dropped Survivor Series the traditional way of doing it.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, I think because the roster was pretty dep at
this time. And we should talk about the overall picture
here before we get into it, Steve, because you know,
I often think back and I have lamented, you know,
many times at the time because people always ask me
why did you leave? Why? And I would leave in

(01:17):
ninety three. But this was, you know, during a period
of time where when I looked at this and you know,
and looking back, it really does bring back to me
what was going on at the time with the company,
and this kind of to me encapsulates what was happening.
And it wasn't a good time in WWE history. It

(01:41):
wasn't a good time for the company. There was a
lot going on, and so it reminded me, Okay, I
kind of remember why. I started to think that maybe
this isn't going to be my my, you know, my
career the rest of my life, and started looking at
maybe doing other things because I wasn't the only one.

(02:01):
There are a lot of people that were worried about
the company and it would grow as we would see
where we're not that far away from the trial that
would take place that you know, many thought might even
put the company out of business. Mince McMahon might have
ended up behind bars for a period of time. They
were talking about other people who would would come in later,

(02:23):
but this was and it wasn't happening at this time.
But I'm just saying that the groundwork, the stuff, that
the stuff was stirring at the time, and of course
the steroid issue was even was big even then, and
as we know, there were a couple of casualties in
this already as we went into this event. So this

(02:45):
is a this is a good one for as far
as not necessarily as an event as we will get into.
It wasn't It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination,
but it really did kind of show what was happening
all the way around in front of TV cameras. It was,
you know, very public now that's seeing that this company

(03:08):
was starting to struggle. So I think it's a really
good event to talk about because it's going to give
you an idea of what was happening at the time.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
You make a really good point because you think of
the Golden Era, Like honestly, after watching this event, I
sat down and thought, is this the death of the
Golden Era?

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Like the is this the end?

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Because you have Brett Hard and Shawn Michaels in the
main event that is very strange for a long time
where we had Hogan and Warrior and Savage and even
Flair Andre. There is no Haku, there's no Dino Bravo,
there's no so many Hercules to Paul Roma's Red Rooster,
Bruce Beefcake. We are missing all these classic Golden Era wrestlers.

(03:52):
And I want to before we actually do get into
actually the event, like, do you feel like this is
really the end of this, this roller coaster ride of
Hogan being on top and being in movies and celebrity
and warrior face paint, Like, is this really the end
of the Golden Era? Because the new generation starts eventually,
but this feels like it is.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
You. I won't go as far as to say it
was the end, but it was certainly at a point
where it was starting to dim. Let's say it was
it was starting to fail, and and it was and
you know, this business is cyclical, it always has been,
and up and down, and there were even little periods

(04:36):
before then where you would have dips. But this was
really where you started to see, uh, you know, I
remember thinking it was things were starting to happen that
weren't good, and and the company was, you know, financially strapped,
It wasn't you could see silly things. It took out

(04:57):
a you know one of the water just you know
those big canister ones, Remember they took it out studio. Yeah,
it was like dumb things like that that they were
cutting back on. And I was thinking, like, what the
heck is going on here, and they say, well, you know,
it's just you know, we had new management people there
and they're eliminating costs and stuff like that. But then

(05:17):
at the same time, you're thinking, Wow, what's going on here?
So it wasn't I don't think it was the end yet,
but you could definitely see that. As I said, I've
said before, you know, they used to have a huge roster.
They would be at least sixty superstars. In a sense,
they wouldn't necessarily be big names or anything, but I
would look, you know, you look at the roster at

(05:39):
this point, and as far as you know, there would
be a lot of names there still, but as far
as ones that stand out to you, you'd be like, yeah, okay, yeah,
I heard of that guy that came in was in
for a cup of coffee or whatever, but it was
I mean, talent wise, I mean, just look at this.
This lineup for this event tells you that something major

(05:59):
was happening in the WWF.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yes, and especially because again, as I mentioned, I have
been watching all of these Superstars getting ready for like months.
I've been watching since summer Slim ninety Tube, been watching
every single episode of Superstars. It's on Peacock right now.
I'll probably be crypt away somewhere ESPN or something. But really,
the storylines heading into this, there's not a lot of them,

(06:23):
and then when you get closer, the biggest ones all
fall apart, all together, all at once, And it is
shocking to see the difference of how we were building
to say, like Macho Man versus Hogan or Warrior versus Rick.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Rudick months and months.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Never did I think about nine days before an event
everything could fall apart all once. But it does happen
to this event and the roster. You bring it up.
I kind of brought it up earlier though, is there
is not enough wrestlers to have a traditional Survivor series
four on four, five different matches, eight different rests each one.

(07:01):
It's shocking to think that the lack of talent means
you don't get your traditional Survivor series. Is that is
that when you head into this event, you're doing the
event centers are you shocked to suddenly see that there
are no more SLAVI series matches except for one.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh yeah, oh absolutely, I mean, because that was the
whole event, was a base was based on. And then
you've just seen kind of this lineup of matches and
you know, you're thinking, Okay, maybe they're trying something new,
because we always were. But at the same time, like
I said to me, it just really stood out and
going into it though it wasn't you know, like you said,

(07:38):
they did have these strong storylines going, but the fact
that they couldn't really fill out something an event like
that that people were used to seeing, and it's also amazing.
We really should point out, I mean, think about it,
we're not that far away from SummerSlam ninety two in
the in the what happened in the UK and coming
off of that, which was, as I've said, it's my

(08:00):
favorite event, and look, look we're not that far removed
from it. And how quickly things changed dramatically, as we've
already pointed out. So to think that in my head
was spinning at the time when you would and I was,
I had to hear about all this stuff with roster stuff,
and I just remember, you know, talking with Howard Finkland,

(08:23):
like what is going on Howard? And Howard was always
the you know, the ultimate company man, and he would
sit there and try and even he would try and
work me, like Howard, really, you know, and then he
would well, you know, have a little issue with Bulldog
and you know, and I would get the tea. But yeah,

(08:45):
I mean think about that. We're not that far removed
from SummerSlam ninety two, and then this is where we
are is It's pretty.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Shocking, especially because again ninety two, I feel like every
single one of their pay per views has something weird
surrounding it.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Rumble, you know, the.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
World titles in the in the Rumble match itself restling.
It eight ends oddly with Warrior returning in Papa Shango
missing his cues. You go to Summer Slim ninety two
where Warrior and Savage is just it doesn't end the
right way.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Who's in the corner of mister Perfect?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
And then now we get here, there's just a lot
happening in ninety two that shakes the foundation. Warrior in
Bulldog both prominently roled in Summer Slim ninety two. Not
even here its Survivor Series nineteen ninety two, just a
few months later.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
It's shocking. It is crazy now.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Before we really get circumstances surrounding it too. Didn't help. Yeah,
and especially the what was happening in the world of
sports at the time with all of this, and as
we quickly found out that professional wrestling was a big
part of it too. I mean it wasn't just the

(09:59):
ww F where this was going on. I mean it
was going on throughout the industry too, and that's the
way and through professional sports, and so it was the
timing of it was where it was awful.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh, steroids, Why do you think wrestling, which is an
art form, you know, it's not It is very physical,
but yet it's not like a football player a basketball
player the way they're competing, because those outcomes for NFL, NBA,
they're not predetermined.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Wrestling is predetermined.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Why do you think steroids is always such a big
deal Because you're gonna try to tell me that actors
in movies in Hollywood have never taken steroids to get
buffer a role.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well, I don't really think that that people would look
at it that way, because of course it was certainly
sold at the time that it was legit you know,
even though eighty ninety percent of the audience may have
known differently, but the fact that it was, you know,

(11:02):
it was still you know, governed by athletic commissions whenever
you went to an arena. And and Vince McMahon played
a gigantic role in this because you know, prior to
that in professional wrestling, you were very you weren't you know,
there were certainly exceptions, there were some people that had

(11:22):
chiseled bodies, but it wasn't the rule. And and Vince
in a sense changed that. Even the you know, even
the small guys had to have a physique. A few
other guys got away with it, but they but you know,
you were used to that prior to that, the guys
with the guys with big bellies and man boobs, man

(11:43):
boobs and you know, the the not the most you know,
shapely biceps or whatever, but they were just big, giant
masses of flesh that could destroy people. But Vince had
a big role in that because he loved that. He
loved the you know, the big giant muscle guy, and
changed that that norm. It became basically a norm in

(12:06):
professional wrestling. So of course it was going to become
part of the industry because the rest of the professional
world of athletics was doing it, and of course bodybuilding
that was already part of it. But you could have
the same argument about bodybuilding too, in a sense that

(12:26):
you know, these guys aren't out there competing in a
sense where they're banging bodies, but and it's a form.
It's sports entertainment, right, So that to me wasn't really
something that the way people were looking at.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
It interesting for me personally, Like bodybuilding, I don't know why,
because your physiqus supposed to be what you're competing with,
So I feeling steroids with that is cheating wrestling I
never really understood, because you are trying to be bigger,
you are trying to be stronger. But yet it's the
ending is predetermined. You could be a skinny dude beating
a big, tall guy. It wouldn't matter because Rick Mysterio

(13:03):
can beat you know, the Big Show because we are
predetermined here in real life, Big Show would smush him
to death. But that's the reason why Warrior and Bulldog
are out of here.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
They failed drug tests. Hgh, They're they're using it.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Boom, they're out building up to this Savors series, Bulldog
was the Intercontinental champion schedule take on the Mounty.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Here At Favor series.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
The biggest storyline coming out of Summer Slam ninety two
was now Warrior wanted a championship Manchikins Rick Flair. So
suddenly My Chaman and Ultimate Warrior formed a group pretty
much trying to recreate the Mega Powers, and they're gonna
take on Rick Flair and Razor Ramone, who just finds
himself in this amazing position as a character. They have
been building and building and building to this for weeks

(13:48):
and months. Nine days before this event, Bulldog's gone.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Warriors fired as well.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, when you hear.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
This in the company, what are you thinking, because this
has already happened with Warrior at Summers ninety one.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Bulldog's been out.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Now he's back, and he's no longer Icy Champion and
he's fired.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, and I think that to say that that I
don't know singled out well, you know, you're thinking, like
Warrior Bulldog, Okay, they got caught and they had to
make an example of them. But and and uh and
and this is one of one of the reasons that

(14:29):
Vince that walked out of that courtroom. Eventually an innocent
man was you know, there was never ever something that
where there was a director that came down that you
need to do this if you want to compete here,
But it was kind of this implied that, and these
guys knew what they had to do to be able

(14:51):
to stay where they were. Warrior was built on his
whole shtick was this, you know, basically professional bodybuilder who
was a wrestler, you know, and and if you if
you look at the early images of Davy Boy Smith,
I mean when you know, and and of course he

(15:13):
was a young kid, but I mean he was this
what a buck sixty, you know, high school kid. Basically
it became and really like double in size, just a monster.
And so I think there was a kind of a
feeling I think among the boys that was kind of
hypocritical that they were kind of the fall guys. In

(15:37):
a sense. Nobody was really going to be able to
stand up to that because they'd lose their jobs too,
but I think that they kind of became the fall
guys for this. So I mean, it wasn't it was shocking,
especially when you're thinking, like, you know, how could they
let these guys go but at the same time, there

(15:59):
was the growing public pressure and I'm sure that they
felt the heat from these, you know, these athletic commissions,
which I always thought was so stupid. Agree, you know,
and these and these guys would you know, sit ringside
and have these backstage, these guys would have to go

(16:21):
in and you know, have these exams. It was a
bit what a scam. I mean, I'm sure it caught,
and I'm sure they had to pay. They paid for
it in whatever way or what, and so that was
always just ridiculous to me. But you know, they had
to play the game and they that was Those were
two big sacrifices. But at the same time to think,

(16:44):
like everybody's like, oh my god, I can't believe that,
Oh you're kidding. Was give me a break, As a
Bobby Heenen would say.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
I was gonna say, as soon as you said that,
are you tradling Bobby Heenon right now?

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Because he's the best?

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Give me a break? Really?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Oh Now, I agree with you one hundred percent about
everything involved there, because if Warrior is already tough to
work with, then well if he's failing drug tests and
you don't want would you rather have keep Warrior your
company goes down, or you hope that you don't get caught,
or you fightre warrior like I'm sorry, you have to
sacrifice these people because of what's going on within your company.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
That's why there's a w W in today's world.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Because you didn't get caught, Uh not Vinton get caught.
You didn't allow wrestlers to do things you weren't privy to.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
I guess yeah, it would. And it was a conundrum
as we would say that they needed they needed him,
they needed Warrior. They uh Davy Boy was also a
big part of this mix at the time, and we've
discussed it before, how but a shame because it was,
you know, coming off SummerSlam, he was riding high and

(17:54):
they did have big plans to push him and then
then this happens, and it's it's kind of interesting to think, Okay,
was were they like exchanging packages when they were in
the UK when because the guy apparently this dealer or
whoever he was was from and so it's just that

(18:19):
the whole timing of ever, of all that was going
on at the time, and it was a fraught time
in the company. And as I said, at the top
of this. You know, when I think back, I'm glad
that you know, you brought this up to do this event,
because as I said, you know, people have asked me
so many times and and it just brought back to
my head, you know, like you know, you talk about

(18:41):
like why did why did I leave? What an idiot?
And then I'm but then I think, like, now it's
kind of like the reality of it all comes back
to me. And you say that you're remembering what was
going on at the time, and it wasn't It wasn't good.
It just wasn't good. And uh, they were a lot
of people that were thinking, Okay, you know what happens next.

(19:05):
I don't think that anybody wanted to go down to
the WCW really that the money was what really made
that happen. But everybody wanted to work for that company.
They wanted to be to be successful. But it was
it was a rough life and uh, you know, and

(19:26):
at the time that the company was definitely struggling, and
I remember thinking that, you know, is this it is
this where it all crashes.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Now, That's why I brought up is this that you know,
the golden era?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Is it over here?

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Because maybe WRESTMENTY and nine is really the finishing touch
of Hogan returning and all that.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
But this, when after watching I just.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Sat down, go man, it's missing so many people because
of so many different reasons, storoids being one, drugs being another.
And it's just so shocking to see all your favorites
from this golden era where one time we did a
podcast I think it was like some about Dusty Rhodes
and I read off every nineteen ninety participant in the
Roy Rumble and we're both like, wow, look at that.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Oh cool, And then you look at this.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't feel the same way about this event that
I did when I was a child watching it.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, And we should also say, though, the credit to
Vince McMahon and anybody who has ever spent time around
him will know exactly what I'm talking about that even
with all of this, and whether they were dark moments
when he would be somewhere by himself and he would

(20:34):
you know, be different, But you've got to give credit
to him and his resilience of it. There was all
there was never in his mind that we can't fix this,
or we can't make it better, or we can't you know,
and that I'm sure there was not when even when
the okay we got to do that with Warrior, we
got to do that with Bulldog. It was im I'll

(20:57):
tell you, and I wasn't in the room, but I'll
tell you it wasd have been like okay, now that, okay,
this is what we're gonna do, you know, like it
was just that Okay, there was and that's the way
he always was. There was never in my presence or
my way of thinking of being around him that he
ever felt defeated like this is a man, now what

(21:18):
and I and it and it was going to get
a lot worse. Oh yes, But but credit to Vince
mcmahn that I I'm sure I'll tell you that that
it was just okay, now what now, what's next? Okay,
how do we make this work? How do we we
find we find a way?

Speaker 3 (21:33):
And they found a way.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
He always did, definitely did.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
This event is a proof of that if everything, all
your chips are falling, well, you got to figure out
what to do. This event really does prove that because
as I you know, take a giant dump on the
event as we talk. The thing with this is you
can notice that things are changing and they're changing in
a way that I came in with no when I
was a child, when I started watching, Like, it's just
a different feeling of what you're seeing now versus the

(22:00):
Golden era, where you know the Warriors and Savage and
Million all the man and the way they were permanently positioned.
But this event Bulldog, after Summer Slim ninety two, he
has never really shown case that much. It's really shocking
because whatever happened at Summer Slim ninety two with umfoked
and all the drugs that are involved with that event,

(22:20):
I think, you know, you get winded that and you
watch all these Superstars episodes, he's just doing promos. He
wrestles maybe once or twice. Out of nowhere. They announced
a science made event between him and Sean Michaels and
then boom, Sean beats him.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Then boom, Bulldog's fired. Warrior.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
He's been prominently Showcase building up the Survivor series. Same
exact thing happens to him, but he gets fired. You mysteriously,
I want to shake your brain. Maybe we can get
some answers out of this. Out of nowhere on Superstars,
you're no longer doing the event Center. It's mean Gene
giving us all these updates about Warrior no longer in
the match, Bulldog no longer involved with the event mount Like,

(23:00):
do you were you just off on vacation in October
of nineteen ninety two or did they have to rush
all this shit at once and you just weren't at
the office that day. It's the hard question to answer.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
I now, no, But if you look back, you know,
Jane did. They were not event centers, they were special reports.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Okay, but you do them all, No, at least on Superstars.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, but but but a lot of those, like the
Jane would do them. He would do the special reports,
and Alfred would do a few of those as well,
the big ones. Vince would want Jane to do it.
And uh so you know there there wasn't a pause
as far as you know on me taking a vacation.
You never took a vacation.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Really, I was just shocked. I was, honestly.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
It was the weird moody go is he on vacation
for this one week of the year and I don't
know where all this ship lands in his lap and
he's not home.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
No, I just I remember that, And then uh, you know,
I'm uh them saying that, you know, Jean's gonna do
the special report. Of course they had to do all
the different changes, but that wasn't unusual at all. I mean,
I don't remember the special reports. I didn't I did.
I know I did them. But a lot of the
times it would be Gene, especially if it was if

(24:17):
you look back and you know he would come in
that Jeane was up there every three weeks or so,
and he would do a lot of the stuff too. Okay,
So there wasn't like some break or me like what
are they doing with me? Or am I not? You know,
I had my hands full as it was keeping up
with what was happening in the event.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
No, of course, it was just shocking because every superstar
is a nine tenty two. I watched I watching him,
you do all the after the match, it goes to
you and you're.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Like, man, I can't believe.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
You know, Nails in the Big Boss Man, the Financi
Harverse series, Let's see what Nails has to say? And
you know, Nails cuts a promo on Boss Man and
then goes back to you, goes back to the Boss Man.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Boo boom boom.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
These about Warrior Bulldog and perfect, You're just like not there.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
And I was wondering did all this ship land at once?
And on a Friday.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I think though if they came up, they wouldn't come up.
Gene wouldn't never, wouldn't be wouldn't be events and it
was always special report.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Because he was sitting at your desk.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah. Yeah, and and I think that, uh and if
if I remember correctly, they would do that, it would
be almost like like they do with the you know,
mainstream news, where you know, we've got almost like a
breaking news to you know, we're bringing this in. It's
a special report. And I think they would have the
big graphic that would come up and because it would

(25:36):
of course it was tape, but they would make it
seem like that this is this just in and uh
and so you know, I don't I'm not in what
Vince's head was thinking that. I think that he liked
having the different talent, you know, between Gene and I
and Alfred as well, that you know, it breaks it up.
It looks like you've got this big team, this big

(25:57):
news team that's on stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
It is awesome something to hear that. I love the
voices because like Lord Alfred Hayes does something, you do something,
mean Gene does something, and then every time they say
well some of our service, it's always the fake doing it.
Oh man, just all of you in a row. It's
just a chorus of memories and it's pretty awesome. And
while if Warriors Out, mister Perfect somehow, randomly on an

(26:22):
episode of Primetime Wrestling, where again there's been no indication,
there is a beef between Rick Flair, mister Perfect, Bobby
Heen and Razormote never once out of nowhere, on this
random primetime episode, mister Perfect is there. Macho man is
live from a TV station in Sarasota, and he has
to you know, they're using satellites to do this in
nineten tinety two, and he's out of nowhere saying, well,

(26:45):
Warriors out, I need a perfect partner. So throughout the show,
Bobby Heen is making fun of Savage and then we
even have Rick Flair in Razormote via satellite also from Charlotte,
North Carolina, cutting bromos, and they're all just beefing with
each other because because this is all has to be
done now. Clearly this was recorded very soon before a
Farber series and macho man wants Perfect. Bobby Heen makes

(27:07):
fun of him the whole episode. Eventually it ends with
Perfect saying, you know what, I will come back. I
will be the perfect partner. A dumps water on Heen.
It's a classic moment. When did you know that mister
Perfect was even cleared to wrestle?

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Well, I mean it was about the time and and
he was. He wasn't ready. They they that was through
necessity that you know, uh, that he had a devastating
back injury. You know, people often talk about the you know,
the insurance and stuff that was involving here Lord London. Yeah,
and I don't know how we worked that one out,

(27:45):
but uh yeah, he wasn't He wasn't ready to He
wasn't ring ready, not not even not to the point
where he was healed and at the point. Uh, and
anybody that's been in the ring there I can't contest that.
But uh, I can tell you though, but being around
those guys that you've got to be what they call

(28:07):
it a ring shape. You can't just go You may
know where all the steps go, you may know where
the body's supposed to be, but uh, you you have
to be in ring shape, and uh, you know, Kurt
wasn't really capable of doing all of that months prior,
and not that he got out of out of shape,

(28:28):
you know, you didn't balloon up or something like that.
But he wasn't wasn't ready to step back into the
ring at the time. But uh, he was a player.
I'm sure money he probably had something to do with it.
And and uh, they needed him, They needed they needed
a nay because the plan was he was going to continue. Know,
he's doing the managing thing, he was doing play by play,

(28:50):
he was doing some commentary stuff.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Executive consultant I believe was his title, right.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Uh, And so that whole situation was out of They
needed him, and and Kurt stepped up. Whatever the carrot was,
it was worth it to him, taking that chance that
he may have hurt himself permanently for the rest of

(29:16):
his life, but to him, it was worth it. And
they worked out they worked out a deal to get
him back on the other side of the ropes.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
It must have happened so quickly like the Hen's fire
as well, and the phone up it just calls perfect.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, well yeah, but he was already in the mix.
But you mentioned that whole thing they do, like the Via,
you know, the VIA satellite and they had with Randy
in Florida, and I thought that stuff was brilliant. I'd
love it. You know, you look at that stuff now
it's nothing, but at the time, it was like, that
is so cool. It really did look capture, like they've

(29:53):
you know, this is spur of the moment and this
great new technology. We get these guys on there, we
get the answers right away. So I loved that. I
loved that hole, the way they put that together.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Same. I was happy to see Perfect back.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
But even when he shows up though he's not wearing
his classic signal that he's wearing black and on the back,
it's all bedazzle and.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
It says mister Perfect on his like rear end I guess.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
And it was just shocking, like, oh, I'm so happy
to see you, but why are you wearing your classic
yellow yellow outfit with the black on the front or
the balloe in the back. It was just so funny
to see, but it was shocking because again, as you're
watching these events unfold, mister Perfect has been a bad guy,
a heel and one in a good one and he

(30:38):
you know who's in the corner, mister perfects corner is
gonna be warrior of savage at Summer Slim ninety two
was built. They beat the shit out of Macho Man
multiple times, and yet here we are we need a replacement.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
It's the perfect partner. Mister perfect is in.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Uh though, Like, did you ever talk to mister perfect
about the situation where you're like, oh, how you doing, buddy,
because you know you must not be fully healed, but
they got you on the road now, Yeah, and uh.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I did have you know, conversations with him, and uh,
you know the way that you would have thought that
the situation he had prior to that was great. You know,
he didn't have to go in there and get beat up,
he didn't have to travel near as much. But it's
crazy with those guys, they miss it and I think, yeah,

(31:28):
and he wanted to get back in there. That's was
just who he was. And you see that a lot
with these with with the guys that you know, Randy
also had the same situation. Probably could could have continued
to make a lot of money, but that wasn't what
he wanted to do. He wanted to be in the
ring and and and Kurt was the same way, and

(31:51):
uh that and he lived for that life. He loved it.
He'd loved being, you know, doing all those dates and
and uh being at those arenas and hanging the guys
and pulling the ribs and and I know he missed it.
So uh, I don't you know, I don't think it
was a whole lot of arm twisting to get him
to go and and and then and the fact that

(32:12):
you can and then you're gonna be a baby, you know,
kind of to to step on that other side, you know,
another new little challenge here to see if you should
pull it off. And uh, you know, I he certainly did.
But come on, mister perfect. Kurt Hannig was a heel
down to the down to his bones. So but yeah,

(32:35):
I I wasn't I don't think he went in kicking
and screaming and he was like, oh man, I gotta
do this. I think that uh you know, he embraced it. Well,
that's that's who Kurt was.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
He was great.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
I did enjoy him more of a heel than a
baby face, honestly, But he still had a great fun
run coming back and beating Rick Flair on like with
the second episode of Raw where retires Flair and he leaves,
and that's to me, which is even more insane about
this whole event is so we have no Warrior, we
have no Hogan, and then Macho Man eventually goes to

(33:08):
do commentary, so he's out, like your your classic Golden
Ora main event stars are all leaving or doing commentary
or doing something else. And then another great character I
love around this time was the Mounti. He was supposed
to fight the British Bulldog inter Continental title. We Bulldog
loses to Sean Michaels, though that changes everything for the
main event of Survivors series, but Mounty quits.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, why do you think he quit?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Because over the years I've talked to Jacques and he's like,
I haven't watched the w w F in years after
leaving the second time.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Around, wells, I think that that he just felt he
wasn't being getting the push that that that he wanted,
and uh and that when that adds up, literally it
means you're not making a whole lot of money, and uh,
you know there there weren't big plans to to give

(34:01):
that to him, and uh, you know, he saw other
opportunities he says, there was more money down south, and
these guys, uh, you know at the time saw with
what was going on in the company too, and uh,
I think it was kind of a basically an ultimatum
in a sense, and they're like, well, we're not going

(34:21):
to and uh, I think that what was he he
got beaten was gone, you know shortly after.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, I always loved the Mounti for Yeah, it was great, but.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
It was also the same thing. You realize, and we've
mentioned this before that these guys, uh get a big push,
but it only goes so far. There's a there's not
a real high ceiling for that, and uh, you know,
you start to think that you're getting to a point
and maybe you're going to get in the mix with
the top guys, and then it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's a good point too, because you know, he he
came in as the MOUNTI, fought the Big Boss Man,
had a great storyline, had into Summer Slim ninety one
with a jailhouse match, eventually becomes inter Criminal Champion for
about what two days, and then he and then he quits,
you know, in October of Dan tend two.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
So in reality, yeah, we've talked about it before even Rick.
Then MAUDEA. Martell had the same situation. All these wrestlers.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
There's only room for like one person at the top,
maybe two, maybe a couple these other wrestlers who are
helping these baby faces get over while they're losing.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
In the end, they don't really come out on top.
So somewhere I have to go.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
It is down, And you know, I always enjoyed the Mountie,
but I could see why eventually you quit.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
But where else is there to go?

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Wsw and he and he's pretty big in Montreal, so
he's done a lot of interesting, awesome things. But other
weird things that happened at this event is ta Tanka
is heading into a storyline with Rick the Model Martel,
and in today's world, the terminologies that they.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Used for this storyline was not really appropriate.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
So the model steals to Tanka's Indian feathers his native
American feathers, and then through promos that you have to
toss to you on Superstars in nineteen eight two at
ten in the morning, where I lived and he Rick
de Marl Martell's calling Tatanka an Indian giver because he
wanted feathers back holy shit, dude, Oh my.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Thoughts. Moodie.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, we've discussed other politically incorrect things that even at
the time, I think we talked about Roddy Piper in
the situation with mad News Brown and and you know,
like knowing at the time when this is happening, you're going,
what are they thinking? And it was it was lame too,

(36:42):
about like he steals his feathers.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
It was look great, it was a model.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, it was. It was lame from the beginning. But
at the same time, you know, and and I don't
think there was this big yeah at the time where
people were so sensitive to you know, these kind of
storylines that might take place. But at the same time

(37:10):
you're like, come on, what are you doing that? It
is worth the reach here. But they were trying to
make something happen with the with the two of them,
and I don't I don't think they really what else
they could come up with. And when you have a
very strong gimmick, which Tanka had as a Native American,

(37:30):
where do you go when you're how do you attack
him as a heel? That's that's where you go. And uh,
I just thought the whole thing around it with the
feathers and stuff and them they could have come up
with something better than that. But at the same time,
I don't know, I don't know how you do it.
When you have that that strong character that you're you're

(37:50):
you're leaning on their heritage or something like that, you
got to be very careful and even then so but
I thought the whole thing was the feathers didn't work either,
so what they didn't have anything else? They were kind
of scraping. And you mentioned, you know, you mentioned Jacques,

(38:12):
and I'm thinking, you know, well, he left everything, but
the roster was so depleted. You know, maybe if he
stuck around, he might, you know, he would have gotten
down because they didn't have anybody else. You know, world
this is an example of it. And and I'm telling
I don't take anything away from from Rick Martel or
or to Tanka, but it just shows you where we

(38:35):
were at the time.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, the model at Summer Slim ninety two had a
don't hit me in the face match, so he had
one of those. So he's been fighting to Tonka multiple
times as time will go on. But I always loved Tatanka.
But when you will do research on these events and
you start looking up and you start watching it on
TV because we've done a whole episode about Piper in

(38:59):
his face paid being erased from Russminia six. Well, i'll
tell you what, Bunny, those Superstars episodes, I don't think
people were editing them properly because this Indian Giver comments
are all over it.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
So you're just wondering, what did you what are you
mad about? Are you mad about? Are you mad at Piper?
Or are you met about the face pain? Like?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
What part is too sensitive to you about certain subjects?
Because why is Indian Giver allowed to still be here
but the other one isn't. I'm just shocked, honestly, I
was by the editing team in the WWE.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
But I digress. I digress. One of the things here
too is you.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
I want to talk about you because after mister Perfect
and the Machia Man take on Rick Flair in Razor Ramone,
your backstage is mister Perfect and he's busting out these
giant turkeys, these frozen kind of like unfrozen turkeys, where
he's saying.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
There's a turkey for Flair, You're a turkey for Razor Ramone.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And he grabs a little chicken he's again, this is
for you, Bobby, and you actually you can see you
on camera, you're you're like, hold I can see you
kind of hold down your laugh for a second.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
What was that?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Do you remember the situations because you got Macho Man
and mister Perfect in the room together trying to cut
a promo about turkeys and chickens and Thanksgiving themes, and
you're there trying to hold down the fort.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah. And I remember that one just thinking of like,
what's gonna happen here with all these uh you know,
with these birds. But and that was another one where
that I didn't know what was going to happen. And
I don't know if they really did either. That was
kind of they just went off. And it just shows

(40:34):
how good Kurt was with with when it came to
cutting promos. But yeah, that that was certainly one of
those times. It wasn't the first where I broke I
I you see it on camera and it doesn't seem
like much, but it was. I remember afterwards everybody in

(40:55):
the room laughing because when he came out with the
little thing, and uh, it just you know, uh. And
I saw a couple of other ones that we did.
The one I did with Sean and that you know,
that was a pretty intense promo with him that you know,
I had to get to a lot of points in it.

(41:16):
And I don't want to say I don't remember like
us rehearsing, but I know we had to go over
a lot of it to to make it work. And uh,
and this one was you know, when you had these
and it was just kind of let's see what happens
and how could it really go wrong when you've got
all these turkeys and just let it happen. And that
that to me, that was it's like one of those

(41:37):
other ones that you know when it when it happens,
when you've done enough of these, you know, when they work.
And I remember thinking during the middle of that thing,
this is this is awesome.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
It's it's honestly one of the highlights of this event.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
At the ground right, and it's just to their you know,
just shows how great they were at doing how great
Kurt was that you know, you just oh and as
Vince would say, nothing can go wrong here, and you
know that was that was one of those classic examples.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, I loved it. I wrote it down.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I was like, I need to talk to Mooney about
this because it was just you're sitting there like, uh,
you're gonna throw Turkey's Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Those way a lot too man with when the gods, Yeah,
you're even those things around. It was memorable for sure.
Oh yeah, that was one of the great.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
There's two matches on here that also, you know are
The Survivors series really is heavy on some storylines, and
this one involves Nails.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
He was beaten down by the Big boss Man when
he was in jail.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Nails says that he did not do anything wrong but
him Big Big boss Man and his buddies were beating
him up in jail. Well, during this promo for this matchup,
Nails talks about everything that happened to him in jail,
but then he talks about the nightstick match where he
hasked to climb the pole to get the night stick.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Well, the Nail randomly goes, you know, I'm really good
at climbing, boss Man. So you did you escape jail?
Did you get out?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Like, how how did this all go down? But what
did you think of a nightstick match?

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Because this is the pole is very tall and Nails
and Big boss Man have a crazy storyline it's great.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
But what were your thoughts on that? Because night sick
matches aren't common thing in the w w F around
this time.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
No, And and you know you have to have the
the gimmicks to go with it. I mean, you don't
just have a night stick match, right, it's that Uh.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
It's versus knobs and a nice stick match.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Right right, So, uh, you know it's kind of a
natural as far as that goes. And uh, but you
know where you can where you're you're trying to get
a weapon so you can beat the other guy down,
you know. So but uh, they that was a I
think that was a great match, and I think it's

(44:00):
remembered to this day as being one of them that
between those two and and uh, you know we've talked
about Nails before. It's unfortunate that that the guy had
some serious anger management uh issues. He probably probably could
have had a pretty decent run there, not to say

(44:21):
that he didn't wasn't justified in some of his uh
some of the beef he had with the company, But
he that guy was intense, and man, you know there
we were there. There are some characters that uh, you know,
these guys kind of lived their gimmick. I mean, he
he was legit. You just felt like something was off

(44:44):
and uh and which makes for a great character because
then he scares the crap out of the audience too.
I mean that, you know, the people were legit afraid
of this guy that they believed he was a psycho.
So yeah, and and uh and then you've got you
know boss Man, who uh was just a great uh

(45:08):
in ring performer, and and Nails was good. I mean
that that at least that you know, that matchup was
was was awesome. It was brutal, it was you know,
and uh so they could I think that that could
have really lasted a long time. But uh, I think
we're unfortunately we got to see this one and it

(45:30):
was in the concept of it was was awesome and
the way they wait, you know, they played it out.
I thought it was great.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I really did it fit the storyline perfectly because the
Nails the starts all off Bossman's in the ring, and
Nail shows up. He grabs boss Man's nightstick and just
beats him down, beats him down, beats him down, and
then the w w F magazine does like a photo
shoot boss Man's bruise on his face, on his stomach,
on his legs, He's bruised all over. So this is

(45:57):
when Bossman can step away from television for a while.
On Nails gets over always saying he hates boss Man
and they've been building for about five months to this matchup,
so they have it.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Boss Man wins. That's great. Well, by December, Nails is
out of.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
The WWF because he's upset about pay.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, he chokes Vince McMahon. Oh that and that little
nugget right there.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
So it's just shocking because they had storylines for Superstars.
It seemed like Nails and the Undertaker were about to
have a storyline after Kamala was done with Taker. Yet
Nails is out. So for you, around this time, you're
seeing what's happening. Water cools are being removed from the
office and now you hear a wrestler is choking Vince McMahon.

(46:42):
How are you personally feeling about all the situations surrounding
Nails choking Vince. But yet the company is not financially
where it once was because you don't have water, not
all the water, but some water is missing from the office.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Well, those are really two very separate things because uh yeah,
the stupid things going on as far as with the
water cooler and everything else, thinking you know things they
can put boards on the window or something, but nails
choking Vince. I mean, that was certainly extreme because you

(47:15):
can't imagine why, you know, somebody would attack the owner
of the company that actually helps pay you. But it
wasn't that crazy I've talked about. It was the wild West.
That that's how the business worked, That's how people settled things.
There were incidents all the time backstage between the boys,

(47:38):
and sometimes it was dragged into the ring or started
in the ring and got finished in them back. So
sure that was crazy, but okay, you know was everyone
you know, oh my god, this is where am I?
Whom I would what company am I working for? Oh

(48:00):
my goodness. So uh no, it wasn't. That wasn't where
you're going, Oh my god, the whole the everything is collapsing.
That was an ugly part of the business, but not
unusual to say. I mean, it was unusual that Vince
was involved, but not that you know, it was it
was a sign of the times or what was happening

(48:22):
with the company. And I want to make a quick
note too, because you mentioned about the night stick match
and uh, you know how you know Nails laying in
with the night stick and and I've talked about you know,
Bubba before with boss Man and how you know, incredibly
he was not the way that he worked in the ring.

(48:43):
And we know, you know guys that could throw punches
and it looks you know, they're millimeters away from a
guy's face. And when you're using a prop or whatever
you want to call it, like that night stick, and
how good uh boss Man was at wielding that thing. Well,

(49:03):
Nails did a pretty damn good job too. But I'm
telling you, uh, you know a lot of times those
bruises on boss Man and and other guys, it just
couldn't be helped. It's the same thing like when you're
laying in a chair. Yeah, you know how to do it,
but check out that guy's back the next day. You
know you're still taking you know, it's like on the
meat of your back or wherever it goes, but you

(49:25):
know you're you're still taking the brunt of that. You
can't just as like say, he wouldn't use a rubber
night stick. That thing was real and so it just
it's credit to their professionalism and what they could do
and how skilled they were in that ring that you know,
you could do stuff with the night stick where you'd
swear he'd just walloped that guy right across the back

(49:47):
of the head and it never really connected. So you know,
it just shows you how great those guys where you
didn't get to that level without being really good at
what you did.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Nails also was the perfect person for this character, because again,
whatever you want to say about Nails choking out vins
and all that stuff, his character, I believed that he
was a convict. I believed he was violent. So in
his promo, shit due like please take my money, like
don't hurt me, Bobby. He used to say that he

(50:21):
was just buying flowers for his mother on Mother's Day
and a police officer mistakenly said he didn't pay, and
that's how Nails got put in jail.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
And then started and then prison. What did it to him?
And the justices would man to that point to violence?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
I would, hey, Cobb, Connie, Georgia clearly is a bad
place for police officers because Big boss Man was abusing
his power beating out Nails. These are according to Nails.
I don't have the I don't have all the documents here,
but I would I believe Nails. He seems like a
good guy guy.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Well you know what, and and I remember thinking at
the time, though I loved the care character. I thought
that was you know, it was great, uh, you know,
to talk about getting heat and he was the perfect
character for it. And I do think he walked the
edge there, uh in real life. And it's it's unfortunate though,

(51:17):
because I think he could have done a lot more
than he ended up being able to do. And attacking
Vince probably wasn't the greatest career choice because I'm sure
he worked after that, but he was basically you know,
blacklisted as far as getting to that level again, and
and and you know, you don't get there without being

(51:39):
really good. Uh and and and and he earned his
way in. And it's just really really unfortunate that the
you know circumstances happened. And you know, uh, if he
would have hung around or you know, we talked about
before about you know, guys wanting different running paydays and
going well unning it right away or you know, not

(52:02):
you know, feeling that when you get to that point
and well, if I'm in the match against this guy
at this level, say on a pay per view that
I should be getting exactly what he's getting. Well, that's
not the way it works. You've got to you've got
to be a one who earns for you. You, you know,
you got to be at a level where you've actually

(52:22):
helped pay, You've brought pay it you, you've put people
in the seats. And until you get that point, you
may you're not going to get the payday. Now, you're
gonna get a good one, but you've got to understand
that it's a it's a matter of uh, you know,
steps here. You've got to then, you know, do it
a couple three times, Okay, then you then you've got
something to say. And a lot of these guys didn't
have that patience.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Yeah Neils clearly didn't. If he's choking out Vince McMahon
about yeah pay but you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
The casket match, though, is another one that blew my
mind because we've seen body bag matches between Undertaker and
Ultimate Warrior before, but we've never seen a coffin match.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
This is not a casket match. It's called a call
and match, and for a week, Big difference, big difference.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
And for weeks upon weeks we have been in Paul
Bear's workshop in Death Valley watching Undertaker actually build a
casket by hand.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
He's doing the he's carving it really slow. He's hitting
the nails in.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
And we get to this match and when Taker wins,
they put come all in it and now we have
to in real time watch Undertaker take nails with a hammer. Boop,
all right, next spot boop you now they just put
a lock on. It's over. When you heard they're gonna
have a coffin match? Like, what are your thoughts about?
First off?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Okay, it still gives me the creeps, thank you when
you think about that. And that's what I'm saying that
that's the brilliance of those of those matches and also
the whole Undertaker uh you know gimmick is that uh
what are what is human beings worst nightmare? I would

(53:58):
for the most part, god, the idea that you would
end up in a coffin. You know, I'm claustrophobic anyway,
and just even the thought of that, even as a gimmick,
and you know, hey, guys, you know I'm only going
to be in here for a little bit and there's
plenty of air and I'm like, no, you close the lid.
I'm freaking you know, And I think that that that's
that's why that was just so uh such a great

(54:22):
storyline that you know, you can end up in a
casket in a coffin. Yeah, but uh it's you know.
And and then Kamala selling it. You know, the the
fear of of of of ending up in that box

(54:42):
was you know, everyone's nightmare. And and then you see
it happen, and then like you said, and they're drawing
it out and you're thinking, like can he breathe in there? Yeah?
You know, and uh yeah that and you know that
they have like the bottom that he got out. I
mean he's okay, you know U So uh that great

(55:03):
great stuff And especially for people who might have had
that phobia, which I think, who doesn't tell me that
any who's okay with that? Uh? They knew how, you know,
where to where to draw, where to get people, uh,
you know, feeling for something for this whole situation, and
that worked absolutely.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
It freaked me out. And I was watching the other day.
My eight year old was next to me, and is
he okay?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Is he is he it was going on, Daddy, why
is he trying to put him inside there and close
the little it's it's I got it be like it's fake.
I had to be like, listen, it's not. He's okay,
Kamala is okay. Don't worry, He'll be fine. He turned
into a good guy leader.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Don't worry. Yeah, No, freaky as ship.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
And they made it custom wide, and they made they
put Kamala's uh chest paint on the coffin itself. And
so eventually later on like take it would build one
for say Yoko Zuna. They would make sure that you
remember by the time he is he has a workshop.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Bilhouse for fun.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah. And you know, Kamala was not comfortable with the
whole thing either, even though it was you know, it
was part of the starlet, but you know, he wasn't
He wasn't happy about getting in that box.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Now.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, give me some magic though, because some most of
the time is a breakaway bottom you're gouneath the ring.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Yeah, I don't do you think that.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
It's breakaway bottom here or he's actually being nailed in
and they wheel him back.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
No, I think that they from what I remember that was,
you know, the box they had there. You know, what
are they gonna do like, uh, you know, uh drop
it down or something and you've got more room in there,
but you're still in this box. So you know, I
don't remember how they gimmicked it, but I know that

(56:48):
he wasn't you know, he wasn't comfortable, and nobody ever was.
I wouldn't think doing that, but I remember that vividly
that you know, going through it, you could just see
the Okay, all right, I guess you know, and what
are you gonna do? You gotta go, you gotta go
forward with it. That's that's the storyline there. But you

(57:12):
know it's to me, it's you know, if you ever
done that the MRI thing where they put you in
the tube and you know that you could look down
you see you know the other half of your body
is out there. But I whenever, I've got to have
the headphones, I got to have the things over my
eyes because it's just that allusion to you that you

(57:34):
just and it's right there. Uh So I just think that,
you know, most human beings, it's not it's not a
comfortable thing to do.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
No, I wouldn't think it'd be fun ever to do,
especially because you hear all about these ribs in wrestling,
and I can't imagine being actually locked inside a coffin
wheel to the back and then okay, guys call me out,
I let you, Oh, yes, son of a match like I.
I can't imagine the boys having too much fun with that.
Did they do something to Kamala?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Do you know? No? I don't because they would have
been hell to pay afterwards. So you got to remember
that once the guy's out, he's not going to be happy.
So but but I'm sure that there were more than
one occasion where it's a rib involving one of the
casket or the coffin where everyone call it it did happen?

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine it being good at all,
like cut a hole old and put some shit in
there or something. I don't know, fart in the hole.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Who knows. Also, Yoko Zuna makes his pay per view
debut on this event. He's been on a few episodes
of Superstars, not that much yet.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
When you first saw Yoko Zuna again, everyone praises him,
and I will praise him as well. A man that large,
moving that fast and then dropping the bonzai killing Virgil
here it's a virus series. How impressed were you by him?

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Because we've seen big men. We've seen big men before,
but not like this.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah. And I remember first seeing him thinking, God, what
are they going to do with this guy? You know,
it was it was almost you know if people remember
in the Wayback Machine, as they say, you know, like
Haystacks Calhoun, where I don't know what he weighed five
hundred something pounds, then he would have on a pair
of big overalls and basically didn't do any much in
the ring because he couldn't. And then and then you

(59:23):
see somebody like Yoko Zuna who moved around in that ring,
like somebody who weighed about two hundred pounds. Yeah, and uh,
you see, you know, saw him work the first time,
like holy shit, look my god, look at the How
does he you know, able to do this? And it
was you know, credit to you know, his his athleticism.

(59:49):
And I can only imagine what he would have been
like if he weighed two hundred pounds less, what he
could have been able to do. You probably would have
been doing flips off the top rope. But yeah, he
could and the flexibility he had was was pretty amazing. Too.
But I do remember when he came in, I was like,
I'm like, what the hell are they going to do

(01:00:09):
with this guy? He's you know, what's he going to
be able to do in there besides squash people? Yeah?
And John Tentton was like that too. Here was another
guy that was this huge human being who could really
move in the ring that you just never would expect
to see them move that quickly and with that flexibility
and you know, be able to do things in there

(01:00:31):
that you would you know, you didn't see some people
that weighed half their weight be able to do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
It was it was crazy impressive.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
He goes world champion very quickly too, like a few
months from now actually, and he in this storyline for
Survivors series is he has an open challenge.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
That's all it says.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
He says, I have an open challenge, and then they
promote that during the event center. Hey but Virgil a
week before this event had a world title match against
brought the hitmant heard an episode of Superstars. They don't
mention it once on commentary, but then he just gets
destroyed by Yoko here at Surbyber series. You know, I
never I always enjoyed the virtual character. As y as

(01:01:08):
would go on. You'd hear stories about the lonely Virgil
at comic cons and things of that nature. But his
storyline with a million dollar man and turning on him
and finally getting you know, his upons and he kind
of fell at the wayside like a mountie where you
you can't they're not gonna make you in a Collin champion.
You won't be world champion. You're gonna be there, but
you won't be doing much. He gets killed here and

(01:01:29):
it's kind of the end of Virgil's career and the WWE.
What were your thoughts on the virginal character eventually leaving
because he goes to become Vincent in WCW A rib
at Vince McMahon not a good call. What were your
thoughts on Virgil as a character in general? Because I
always enjoyed him, But what were your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Yeah, well, Uh, Virgil was really given a gift and
it's just like how things line up that you know,
that million dollar man character came along and uh, they
figured out, well, he needs to have a valet, and
uh it handed him a really a great, great run

(01:02:12):
in professional wrestling, and uh, you know, but I think
we all knew that once beyond that, where would he go?
What would he do? And so once that, once that ended,
it was really a matter of time. You know. They
they gave him a push, I think just out of
his loyalty to the company, and uh uh he could

(01:02:34):
work okay, but there just was I don't think anybody
ever thought that that was going to be a different
for him. And and so you know, when it all,
when it all came down to it, there really wasn't
anything else to do with them. They like you said,
they gave they gave him that little big push, put

(01:02:55):
some shine on him before they're going to bring this
new character in, uh and then have him just get squashed.
But after that, you know, him going south, and I'm
sure they thought, well, okay, you know, you can take
it and make some money down there. Then you know,
thank you for your service. Uh. And of course w

(01:03:18):
CW took advantage of it for jab events. But whatever,
you know, it wasn't like I'm sure he didn't lose
any sleep over it. But you know, uh, Virgil, what
a great character and a great run that he had.
I mean, really he would have to take a bump
here and there. But other than that, you have to

(01:03:40):
travel around with the with Ted and and uh and
be involved in all of these main event and high
card matches. Uh. So for him it was it was
a great, great career. You know, other things have come
out later of you know, who he was personally, and

(01:04:02):
Ted didn't necessarily think a whole lot of them. It
didn't see him in the end. There they had, they
had a falling out, and but I don't think there
was they were They were never this close pair. They
just were professionals. And as Ted said, you know, he
was always where he was supposed to be. He wasn't
a big partier, didn't drink or anything like the guys.

(01:04:24):
You know, there's always was always those those stories of
how they would go to Virgil to get his pee
to pass drug tests. You know that he was because
he was going to always be clean and uh, you know,
but uh, you know, other than that, I mean, like,
what a great career. I don't think that he could
have lamented any of it and said, you know, I

(01:04:45):
got screwed or they you know, because it was what
a great runny at and he got to be a
part of all of it for a very long time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
You're right. No, you are right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
The connection to the million dollar Man is one of
those things, especially in the height of the million dollar
Man gimmick, who is there. It's Virgil and Art to
the giant. They're both there, attached to the hip.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Yeah, and he was good at it, and let's let's
not say that he was he was perfect for the role, yo. Yeah,
I mean, had a great physique, had that intensity that
you could buy the fact that this could be a
dangerous man, he could be in a protector and so
he was. He was perfect for it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
A former Million Dollar Man champion as well, he did,
so let's not let's hold hold that back, that championship
for him. The only surviv Series match on this event,
it's the Nasty Boys and the Natural Disasters versus Money Inc.
In the Beverly Brothers, and the rules are if your
partner is eliminated, you're also eliminated. So they've just decided
to throw out Savira Series rules in general. The tagging

(01:05:50):
division is not once it is no longer the Rockers
and the Heart Foundation and Strike Force and Demolition and
Brainbusters and Powers of Pain. That is out the window.
We are as I've been mentioning a thousand times over.
I've watched all these superstars in the tag team division.
Is all the storyline is is Jimmy Hart used to
manage the Nasty Boys, the Natural Disasters.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
And Money Inc.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
All want to be Tag Team Champions. So it's constantly well,
who's Jimmy two time in here eventually goes with Money Inc.
Nasty Boys turns Babyface, Natural Disasters turned baby baby Face.
It's all because of Jimmy Hart turning on them to
be with Money Ink Money Inc. Era Tag Team Champions.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
This is not a good match. When you see the
dots on peacock how long it is? I'm sorry, folks.
I had to do it because I didn't want to
see this. I didn't want to see it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
What were your again? We've talked about it. Is it
sad to see the end of Survivor series here. I
know next year in ninety three they bring back the
four on four matches and five on five, but this,
this is not Survivors Series.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
It's like Royal Rumble not having it in the Royal
Rumble match.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, and I think it's just kind of encompassed the
entire event that that's what we had and they had to.
And it was kind of you know, not that storylines
aren't manufactured, but this just seemed forced. It was just
kind of manufactured. And I sense, okay, well what do
they have in common? Jimmy art? You know, it just

(01:07:17):
wasn't you know, there wasn't this heat or you know,
built up and can't wait to see this and that,
and that's what it kind of came off and and
and and it was. It was weak tea anyway, like
you said about the elimination rules and just all the
way around. It was. Yeah, it wasn't good. And even

(01:07:39):
you know it was money ain't okay, that was you know,
kind of a car you know what I'm saying. The
Beverly Brothers. Okay, you know, so yeah, overall it just
wasn't it just kind of it did it really just uh,
you know, showed you the what this whole event was about.

(01:08:02):
And h it was just kind of wan wah wah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
You know one year from now, Nassy Boys gone, earthquake,
typhoon gone, Bentley Brothers.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Gone, million, de La Mann. He's a manager, I rs
still there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
That's what happens to every single person in this It's
not it's not a good picture. But and then tag
division is also suffering because the first match is the
high energy uh Cook will be Ware and Owen Harten
the most amazing pants ever take on the Headshrinkers. We
did have the new Foundation when it was the anvil
in Owen Heart anvils out because of personain reasons, demons,

(01:08:38):
but Kokoby Waar comes on in. That's your tag team division,
those six tag teams I just radled off. That's your division,
no longer Rocker har Foundation, all those good teams who
I only don't really know to talk about this hyderg
match except did you own a pair of their pants?

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Moony? Yeah? I think I think they were from the
mc hammer collection where they or the Genie And I
think that there were checkerboards in there too. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
It was some stripes, some dogs, every shape was there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah. And and you know how much I love Coco
u Be where I think he was h you know,
tremendous uh in and out of the ring. I love
the guy and and Owen too. Owen was you know,
both of those guys really good ring performers. And Owen
was tremendous and it just they never ever got him right.

(01:09:36):
They they found where you know, Brett found his place,
found his what what his destiny was as the hitman,
and they just never and Owen was certainly at his level.
Owen was as as good and skilled in the ring
as his brother. And and this is a real, a

(01:09:56):
classic example of never really finding the right image for
that person, the right gimmick for them. It never happened.
And this one, you know that that tag team, you
got two great guys, but my god, you spent more
time looking at the outfits, like what who came up

(01:10:17):
with this idea? Yeah, and so this was another match too,
and then like putting them together to try and make
this tag team. Like you said, it shows you where
we were as far as the division, the tag team
division was at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Yeah, headshrinkers are also relatively new here th act are
the ones who cost typhoon or earthquakes, the natural disasters
are tag team titles against money yank. So they're here,
but the whole time offas on the outside eating turkeys.
He's just shipping there, keeping close of them. You getting
in there good and he one point he's eating his turkey.

(01:10:55):
He has a giant kindo stick the referee turns his back,
he smashes coca with it, he goes right back to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Eat, back to the Yeah. And I don't know, I
don't know what the idea of that was, Like what like,
was this supposed to be some kind of stereotype or
showing that they were yes, animals. I don't know. Yeah,
that was a and I could just like I can
see like, you know, I just envisioned like Pat Patterson

(01:11:21):
and then you go, he's going to eat the turkey.
It's going to it's just going to keep eating the turkey,
you know. The and uh and he would say and
he would think something was just so funny or it
was going to work, and they would just drill down
on it and you're thinking like, oh god, damn, it's
so stupid. And that was right up there. But it

(01:11:47):
and and it just I don't know, it was I
don't know how to want to describe it as it's
not lazy uh story writing. It was just kind of like, well,
what do we do here?

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
They had the story you know, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Just gonna be an aside that he's doing this the
whole time, right, Yeah, got close, keep seating.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
The best part about that match though, is when it
ends they do a replay, It's like, I think it's
the splash and Bobby Heenan has the pen so he's
drawing over them and he draws a big turkey on him.
He's like, and he's a big turkey. That's the best
part of this matchup. And before I wrap this up,
of course, you have the main event. It was Brett Hart,
who was the w w F champion, Shawn Michaels, who

(01:12:37):
recently came the intern Continental Champion, fighting each other at
Survivor Series, not the Screwjob one. This is a great match,
but you can really see we're no longer in the
I'm gonna power up and I'm gonna point at you,
and I'm gonna shake and I'm gonna hulk up. We're
in here technical wrestling. This is completely different from anything

(01:12:58):
we've seen. I don't only count Summers because you also
that was special as well. This is completely We're on
a new road with Brett Hart. When you see Brett
Hart as the face of the company, are you saying, like,
finally we're doing something with him as world champion or
are you thinking, hmm, we're waiting for Hogan to come back,
what are we doing?

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Yeah, And we've talked about this before with Brett that
you know, uh, he was everything that you would want
in a superstar and unbelievably skilled in the ring. Great
matches didn't whenever they you know, and it didn't matter

(01:13:39):
who you put him with, he would figure out a way.
And then you pair him up with somebody like Shawn Michaels,
You're thinking, man, this is gonna be you know, magic,
and they did. They had tremendous matches. And the fact
that they didn't think much of each other either also
plays into this. And I'm sure that you know, like

(01:14:01):
maybe Vince was the same way that because he did
want to put the company in his hands in a
sense and uh uh it just for whatever reason, just
didn't work overall. And and uh and and the the
the way you tell that is the reaction that you

(01:14:22):
get and the kind of draw they have, and uh
when and the same thing happened with the Warrior. He
was uh, you know, to a point, but then it
was like, Okay, they're not buying it, and so uh,
you know, they the whole thing with hul Cogan, you know,
Holcus kept coming back. Well he came back because they

(01:14:44):
needed him and they would need him again, and so
this is this is where we were then. But at
the time I think that, uh, you know, all the
all the chips were there, They're on the center of
the table and it was all for Brett. They were
putting it on him there and that's that's that's where

(01:15:04):
we were at this point. And uh, I think that,
you know, Brett talked about this match, and as you said,
it was a good one, but I think he talked
about like that he had to he slowed it down
because you know, Sean wasn't in the in peak condition
at that time, and whether it was through injuries or
you know, a little ring rust or whatever, but it

(01:15:26):
just shows you how great these guys were, because it
was still a really good match.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
And the one thing I noticed completely after watching it
too was I didn't remember much about this match except
for the ending when Seawan jumps off for like a
drop kicking, Brett catches him in mid air and then
locked in the sharp shooter, which they would recreate and
wrestumating at twelve in the Iron Man match, holding him
into the counting down to zero. This match, though you
can tell both men are hungry because Bret's trying to

(01:15:51):
prove himself as a champion. Sewn Michaels is now Icy champion,
so he wants to prove he's the best too. Yeah, dude,
you watched this match and you can tell like both
meant like, this is my time. We're both gonna go
out there together. We're going to show the world that
we are the best, We're better than the Warriors and
then hog into the savages and the people like that.
And I honestly, when I was done watching, Wow, that

(01:16:14):
saved the entire event. Nothing again, nothing wrong with all
the matches, nothing wrong. You can say this is a
grace event of all time where it's your favorite, the worst.
But when I came back after going through it and
you see the main event, like damn, you know, a
bad movie can be saved by the ending and this
match thirty minutes a classic And yeah, people talk about
the Montreal one all the time though, but this one

(01:16:36):
cannot be forgotten.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Yeah that's and that's where I say, you think about it,
the credit to them if that was the case. You
know about what Brett said about this match, and Sean
may have a completely different side to it, but you
know the fact that it was so good and if
there was at any point that they had to adjust to,
you know, to because of what was going on out

(01:17:00):
there with one of the performers, it just shows you
how how tremendous that those two were in the ring.
And and you're right that and a lot of times
that's the the kind of the the kicker on this
is that you know that I don't really remember many
instances where you could say, like Brett wasn't tremendous. Uh,

(01:17:23):
you know, he always came through, and so why did
it happen? You know, why wasn't he as big as
the Hulkster, Why wasn't he as big as the Warrior
as far as as get delivering in the ring and
making you excited about watching what was happening on the screen. Uh,

(01:17:45):
nobody better really, Uh you know, maybe Sean, But then
you had both of them right for this. So uh
it is it's what it's a it's it's a mystery.
Uh you know, Uh that that that that's the way
it played out with for Brett, I don't know, you

(01:18:05):
know that he didn't have he had his his his
huge following, But was it ever on the level of Hulkamania.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
No, and that's where they needed to go. Do you
think you know even the Warrior had had that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Do you think it the steroid used and the physique
for Brett Hart is really why Vince was like, Okay,
I need somebody who's not clearly giant and jacked and
huge and like steroid filled. Brett Hart was the guy
who could wrestle for you. So he was doing something
completely different than big powerhouse moves, Like do you think
Vince saw Brett as a guy who could just steer

(01:18:45):
the waters during these terrible times because we can't be
out there looking jacked and huge anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
We have to go out there and be athletic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Yeah, but I don't know if it was necessarily that
as far as you know, let's get somebody who doesn't
you know, obviously, isn't you know somebody does steroids or anything.
I think he knew he was the best he had
on that roster by far and h and so that
was you know. I don't think that there was any

(01:19:12):
other real discussion about it with what they were doing
at the time, so I think it just came that
he was he was the best there was the best
there ever will be.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
I'm sorry, are you quoting Brett Harder?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Yeah, but I'm just I I really I believe that
that that it wasn't necessarily let's get somebody who's smaller,
who's not going to be as vague and being more
athletic in the ring. I think that just overall that
Vince felt, No, this is the guy we we have.
He's the he's the best. He's the best we have
on this roster. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
I love this matchup and it's so good. But what
happens is I heard this is a story. I want
to know if it's true or not. At the end
of this event, a celebrity shows up all in red,
it's snowing. Suddenly Santa Claus a he was a Premadona backstage?

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Is this true?

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
Because Santa Claus shows up and he hands out presents
with Brett Hart and the Hug and it's snowing and vents.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
Like, I trust myss time on Thanksgiving? Got any good
Santa stories? Was he nice backstage? Mooney?

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Oh? Of course whenever Santa shows up and I was,
I love the idea that, you know, because Thanksgiving was
always okay, let's get ready now for Christmas, of course,
and of course you have to have Santa show up
and bring gifts. And it was just it was part
of the tradition. Why wouldn't we have Santa's class. I

(01:20:40):
love him.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
I know it's funny, because you're right, it was like,
all right, thanksgivings over, put on your Christmas weater. In
today's world, it's okay, school starts, Christmas has started, and
you can see Halloween decorations and next to Christmas decorations
and all the stores already.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
I always love when Santa pops up in the WWE
and Time because sometimes he gets run over by El
Bretel del Rio. Sometimes he fights wrestlers or his evil
brother Xanta Claus. Once Time showed up and joined the
Million Dollar Mam. But I love seeing Santa heer it.
I love the Survivor series because it brings back all
the memories that I had. And when you break down
what happens the controversy with Warrior and Missed the Perfect

(01:21:20):
and Bulldog and Mounting, there's just so much on here.
But for you, what would you take back from this?
Because after talking about it here for about an hour
and a half, now I still love it. But when
you were there that day and you were thinking, should
I leave this company? Should I stay in this company?
This water, missing nails is choking off people. Bulldog's Out,

(01:21:43):
Warriors Out? Like, what would you take.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
Away from this episode after watching it after all these years?

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Well, as I said early on here that I just
couldn't believe how much had changed since since the trip
to England and where we were at the time, And
it did. It brought back a lot of memories for me,
as I said, because you know, I was I was

(01:22:08):
wondering what was I thinking? Then? I must have been
out of my mind and then seeing all this, it
just brought it back to me that it was a
fraught time. As I said that the company wasn't in
great shape. A lot of my lot of the guys
I'd worked with were gone and and and some basically

(01:22:31):
forced out, and it was like, wow, what's going on here?
And it really was I was thinking, as far as
where I was in my career at the time, saying, Okay,
am I going to go down with this? And then
what am I going to do? You know from here next?
And you know the people that that like Vince, you

(01:22:53):
know that They never batted an eye. They never doubted
for a moment that they were going to pull out
of this and it was going to all be better.
And as I said, it got worse. Boy, it got
really bad. And uh so it was a time where
the company, and I don't really remember any other time
where it was as you know, at dipped had dipped

(01:23:16):
this much and that and that people were really questioning, Okay,
is this going to be it? Is this what finally
does Vince McMahon in And as we found out, we
would were anybody thinking that was very very wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Good point. Good point.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
But like when Bobby Heenen, me and Gina are asked
to take fifty percent pay cuts of their money a
year from now. You know, it's funny because I always
see when you do interviews, the questions always asked, why'd
you leave? Well, it's interesting that you're discovering why you
left as we do this podcast, realizing that not everything
with sunshine and rainbows.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Sometimes it was. It was some dark times.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
But all in all, Oh, thank you so much mister
mooney for sharing all your stories about mister Perfect throwing
turkeys at the ground, to nails, choking out Vince never.
We'll get over that, though, but I will still carry
on that Santa was a prima donna here.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
It's for every serious nineteen eighty two, because are the rumors.
I can't you know, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Dark Side of the Ring Season twelve, Santa Claus was
a bitch to work with.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
It's series ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
But all in imagine that that'd be a great episode.
I want to be interviewed. I want to be I
want you to be interviewed too. But thanks so much
for watching. I'm Steve he Shammun. You have a wonderful
day and we'll see you next time. Bye, bye, attatatatatastas

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