May 13, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode of 'A Prisoner's Pardon' podcast, host Michi J wraps up a discussion with former correctional officer turned life coach and bestselling author, Jamal Javan G. They delve into the concept of 'Living For a Living,' exploring how individuals, especially those incarcerated, can find true freedom and empowerment from within. Jamal shares insights on the perception of prison, personal empowerment, and how changing your internal dialogue and understanding can shift your reality, making freedom possible regardless of external circumstances. Through attention and intention, he highlights techniques for managing anger and transforming adversities into opportunities for growth. The episode emphasizes the power of internal change, self-examination, and how these approaches lead to a meaningful, liberated life.
00:00 Unlocking Inner Freedom: A Deep Dive
00:20 Welcome to the Prisoner's Part Podcast
00:41 From Correctional Officer to Life Coach: Jamal's Journey
01:14 Exploring the Concept of Living for a Living Inside Prison
01:53 The Illusion of External Control and the Power of Inner Freedom
05:11 Prison as a University: Learning and Growing Behind Bars
06:18 Shifting Perspectives: From Victim to Victor
11:30 The Power of Gratitude and the Law of Attraction
14:56 Coaching for Transformation: Breaking Free from Institutionalization
19:40 Harnessing Emotional Control
19:58 Understanding Triggers and Control
21:00 The Power of Intention and Focus
22:50 Manifesting Reality Through Belief
27:40 The Internal Journey of Healing
32:52 Empowerment Through Self-Examination
36:58 Closing Thoughts: Hope and Future Possibilities
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
it's perception, the reality is, is thatpeople are in prison long before they
(00:04):
come to prison because they tend to feel.
Disempowered, limited, stuck.
So we're in then an, now we're inreaction mode or survival mode.
That's prison.
So prison happens first and foremostinternally, and so does freedom.
(00:38):
Hello, and welcome to aprisoner's part in podcast.
I'm your host Meechie J.
Today we are finishing up myconversation with Jamal Javan, G the ex.
Correctional officer who now has turnedlife coach in also, he is a bestselling
author of the book living for a living.
(00:59):
Last week was an eye-opener on howcorrectional officers view inmates.
If you didn't get a chance to listen,please go back and listen to how
correctional officers are trainedand the uniqueness of their job.
Jamal now goes into his perspectiveas a life coach now and living
for a living it how a person whois in prison can also do that.
(01:26):
Let's continue that conversation.
Jamal Say they're inside andyou say a living for a living.
What would you tell them?
How would they live for aliving if they're incarcerated?
I mean, is is it possible?
I would always say not only is itpossible, it's actually, and this may
sound crazy, It might even be easier,you know, I'm not, I think so too.
(01:51):
So go ahead.
Why do you think so?
Because the illusion is taken away.
When you're locked up, when you'rebehind bars, you know the illusion
of what your life could be.
You know, because peopleoutside, they think their life
is all these things, right?
Money and cars and houses andall the stuff we get into.
And that's really not the light.
That's not the, and they're miserable.
And so prison is perception, right?
(02:13):
I always say you could live, youknow, in your, in your dream home.
And if someone came to the door,as they say, a police officer comes
to the door and says, okay, butyou're under house arrest and you
can't leave that, that dream homesuddenly becomes your prison, right?
So it's perception, but the realityis, is that people are in prison
(02:35):
long before they come to prisonbecause they, they tend to feel.
Disempowered, limited, stuck.
So we're in then an, now we're inreaction mode or survival mode.
That's prison.
So when you're locked up behind bars,the illusion's taken away, right?
So prison happens first and foremostinternally, and so does freedom.
(02:57):
So to be free, what do you need?
Well, freedom is simply consciousnessof your own power and your own choice.
See, we're all sentenced to life.
I always tell everybody, everyone of us is sentenced to life,
and most people feel like they'reimprisoned to their circumstances,
to their body, to their story.
Everyone feels like a prisoner.
(03:17):
Most people feel by default feellike this is, I'm limited to this.
So we're all sentenced to life.
The question is, how doyou wanna deal your life?
Sentence, right?
You're, we all have life.
How do you wanna do it?
Do you wanna do it hard ordo you wanna do it easy?
Do you wanna do it well?
Do you wanna enjoy it?
Because in this moment, Your experienceof this moment is an internal experience.
Nobody can tell you how to do this moment,no corrections officer can tell you
(03:42):
that you can't be joyful in this moment.
You can't enjoy your, your, your, yourexperience of life in this moment.
You can actually, if you learn how totake control of the inner process, the
inner process is the only thing youactually have a hundred percent control
over is your inner experience of life.
Um, the illusion is that we havecontrol over other people, over
(04:04):
situations outside of ourself.
This causes us to feel disempowered.
But whether you're outside of a prisonor inside of a prison, your inner
experience of your own life is all youhave ever had control over, and it's
all you will ever have control over.
So if you can learn to take controlover your inner experience, you,
you become liberated and free.
(04:27):
It doesn't matter where you are.
You could be standing outside in a forest,you could be standing in a city, you
could be inside of a prison, you know,PR prison facility or outside of it.
That makes no difference cuz theexternal does not determine the
internal, the internal is what determinesyour quality of life and eventually
will determine your external world.
(04:48):
Hmm.
So I agree with you that it's,it can be an opportunity while
they're there, um, to look, toget out of what The survival mode.
Mm-hmm.
, they can get out of the survivalmode there and get into the
living mode into living abs.
(05:10):
Okay.
Absolutely.
Well see, I've known, I've known peoplethat were who, who were in prison and
they chose to see it as a university.
They chose, they actually made a choice.
And they said, I am in, I'm inuniversity and I'm here to learn.
This is a teaching.
This, this entire time is here.
(05:31):
I'm here to learn.
You have, you have accessto a lot of people.
They'll teach you if you pay attentionto people, people who are suffering,
people who are disempowered, just watchthey'll, you can learn from their stories.
You have access to information.
Like you have time thatyou've never had before.
You don't have to worryabout paying the bills.
You know where yourfood's gonna come from.
All that's provided for you.
You can take a thank you.
(05:52):
I'm gonna use this timenow to educate myself.
You can read, you can learn how toget in, get in touch with what you're
feeling, why you're feeling what you'refeeling, where does that come from?
And then how do you take control of that?
How do you clear and heal the past?
How do you begin to take advantageof opportunities every day?
Because if you can do itthere, you can do it anywhere.
(06:12):
And that's what it's about.
It's about learning howto live, um, and your.
Prison.
There's a, there's a real, Iknow it sounds when we focus
on our lack of choice, right?
We say, okay, I'm not,don't choose to be here.
Somebody the state, put me here.
You know, the judge put me here.
Whatever.
Okay?
Then we're gonna feel like a victim.
We're gonna feel totallydisempowered, okay?
(06:32):
Mm-hmm.
. But if you shift it to, I'vebeen given a new lease on life.
Uh, this is a reset.
My life that led me here is over.
Cuz the past, it's over, doesn't it?
Where's always tell me, where's the past?
You can't find it anywhere.
It's only in your mind.
It's just the memories of it.
It doesn't exist.
So literally, you, this is new,this experience new the rest of your
(06:55):
life is g is yet to be determined.
It is going to be determined byhow you respond to this moment,
this season that you're in.
So you decide how you're gonna do life.
Mm-hmm.
, you're, you know, uh, we're allsentenced to life, but how you
do it is being created by you.
We could do it well.
Empowered free.
Or we could do it with our focuson all the things we don't control,
(07:18):
which is all the external things.
So none of us, whether we're inprisoner or out, have control of
the external worlds that we're,that we are interacting with.
The only world we have controlover is our internal environment.
That's it is.
So many people, I think Jamal don't getthat because they're trying to control
(07:38):
it and that's why they're going nuts.
, you know, cuz they're thinkingthey can control something
that's out of their control.
That's not their job.
I say I look at it that way.
So you, I like how you turn the focus awayfrom I say the victim mentality and get
(08:00):
them to understand that, uh, giving them.
A conqueror mentality,you know, I'm Christian.
Mm-hmm.
, and you know, I'll say things, saythat, uh, cuz I'm quoting word cuz he
gives us, um, not the spirit of fear,you know, and that is totally opposite
from the word that's victim mentality.
Because if you have, if youhave that victim mentality, you
(08:24):
have no expectations but low.
Right.
So you switched the guy's mentality.
It's almost like you turned aswitch on on him in there and he
was like somewhere else already.
And not just in that hole.
And that's interestingthat you gotta talk.
(08:44):
You um, had a ministry in thehole, while they were in the hole.
Mm-hmm.
. So that is good to know theycan start their training inside.
They don't have to wait to, oh, whenI get out I'm gonna do this and that.
You know, it starts now . So, oh, ifit doesn't start now, it's not very
gonna start because that's the, that'sthe, I'll be happy when syndrome right
(09:07):
people, I'll be happy when that day inthe fu It's like that day never comes.
You know, I have a signon my, in my office here.
It's, it's on the wall.
It says today is the tomorrow.
You talked about, oh, I like that.
Today is, today you talk.
It's the tomorrow.
Oh, today, today is the, today isthe tomorrow that you talked about.
You know, cause we, we, wealways say tomorrow I'll do this
(09:27):
tomorrow in the future I'll dothis with, well, that's today.
So it starts now and it'samazing what can happen.
W the, the where your life can lead.
You know, I, I know folks thatwere locked up in prison and
had been for most of their adultlife that are now millionaires.
That are living well, doing amazingwork in the world because of what they
(09:50):
chose to do when they were locked up.
Because they chose to get ahold oftheir inner inner sense of being.
And they, they chose that they were gonnamaximize life and they were chose, they
chose to see prison as a university oftraining for the rest of their life.
And now they're living it.
And it's, you know, easy peoplelike, oh, you're living lar, you
know, look at how you're living now.
It's all, I mean, it's like,but that didn't start there.
(10:13):
It started when they were doing time.
Mm-hmm.
, it's where, it's where their life started.
And, and, and everybody, I always say,the rest of the way you spend the rest
of your life is gonna be determinedby what you do at this moment.
And it's interesting that you say that,that they became, um, very successful.
Mm-hmm.
and did anything else change?
(10:34):
So they became successful in noneof these outward circumstances.
Changed.
Nothing changed.
Nothing changed.
They got outta, they, when they gotoutta prison, they were living in a, you
know, 200 square foot room with nothing.
But he such gratitudefor life and existence.
(10:55):
And when you have that kind of gratitudeand for life and you feel like this is
a gift, you know, really life is a gift.
It comes from the source, the divine God.
You know, it's been given, it'sbeen entrusted to us and we, it's
entrusted everybody, but we don't,not everybody sees it or perceives
it as that gift, but if you can startseeing that this is a gift I'm alive
today, what are you gonna do with it?
(11:17):
You show up for it.
You experience the fullness ofit, and you treat it as a gift.
It's amazing what you canmake out of your life.
Anybody you don't need,you actually, it's free.
You don't, so what?
Yep.
What you're saying is likerevenue revolutionary and.
. So it's a gift and it'sthe present, of course,
(11:39):
Mm-hmm.
. So it's the present.
So if they are thankful, it givesa new attitude and perspective,
because I've seen it where whenyou're thankful you're not wasteful.
That's right.
That that's right.
You and, and, and, andthere, there's a principle.
(11:59):
It's, it's a, it's likethe law of gravity.
It's like the law of the universe.
Mm-hmm.
, it's the, the whateveryou give attention to.
Mm-hmm.
will flourish in the manner in which you.
Of the, it's it, it will flourishin the, in the context of the
kind of attention you give to it.
So when you give something attention,if you see something as a gift, it will
give back to you in that same manner.
(12:21):
So what Jesus said that he said, giveand it will be given back to you,
shaken together, press down, shakentogether, and running over in the same
manner, in the manner in which youjudge it will be returned back to you.
So it's, this is a principle ofthis isn't the way life works.
It's not really punishment orreward as much as it's, this
is just, it's like gravity.
It's a principle.
, yeah.
It's just a law.
It's like whatever, you know,your reward is either good or
(12:43):
bad, is just a re it is a reward.
It's like sea time and harvest.
So Totally.
Yeah.
So to say and reaping.
Exactly.
And if they get that pr, that principlealone would change everything.
. Totally.
A hundred percent.
Totally.
So what you were saying, so they changedtheir life and nothing changed af outside.
(13:07):
It was just inside.
And then, Hmm.
That's it.
That's where the whole worldis experienced, is inside.
Mm-hmm.
, it's, we never experiencedanything outside.
Mm-hmm.
. So our inner experience is alwaysinternal, and that happens to be
the domain where we have the mostcontrol, is our internal experience.
So again, it's a process.
(13:29):
I, it's, this is, you know, it, it's a,it's a, it's a, there is a process to it
where we learn it's a practice, right?
This is why there's certain things thatyou end up putting into place in your
life in a day in, day out basis that takestime to, to, because we're all, you know,
we all have tendencies and patterns, uh,from the past, so from unconsciousness.
(13:49):
So it's, it, it, again, that'swhy I got into coaching work
because it's, it's about helpingpeople learn a new way to be.
It's, again, engaging in that process.
So, you know, it requires patience.
It's not an overnight process, but,uh, it is a process and it, it, uh,
always tell people it's the hardest.
, easiest work you ever do.
Meaning it's challenging to breakpatterns, but it, it leads to a
(14:14):
life of ease because again, mm-hmm.
, it doesn't matter what'shappening out here.
The ease is internal.
Even Jesus said, with all the problemsthat Jesus had in life, right?
, he said, if you're tired and heavylaid, and if you're burdened,
learn from me because my yokeis easy and my burden is light.
That, so he's saying, this is the way I'mexperiencing life internally, easy and
(14:35):
light, despite all the problems out here.
So it's not about the external,it never is what you gonna
upset a lot of people there.
Um, um, the cart, so to speak.
So now I like what you're saying herebecause this is like getting down to the,
the nitty gritty, the principal themes.
(14:56):
So as a coach, you have someone.
That you're working with because whatyou're, you're doing here, you're
helping people not be institutionalizedbecause it's a lot of people that
can naturally go into that withoutunderstanding these principles.
(15:17):
So if you were working with someone thatfailed to get this information while they
ran in and they're out now and they'reinstitutionalized, so to speak, what
would you say to get them to see thisnow that they can turn their life around?
(15:40):
What would be the first thing you wouldtalk to someone who's just getting out?
Totally.
So, uh, first thing I, I, I like todo is, is to increase, uh, awareness.
So I, in my coaching work, there'sreally two things that, that happen.
Again, it's a process, so it's not,doesn't happen quickly, but it's, the two
things is attention and then intention.
(16:02):
So, attention is awareness.
So what we want to do is we wannastart increasing our awareness
because when you become more aware,there's a separation that occurs.
Uh, or I say there's a gap.
So again, there's, the principle is that,which is observed cannot be the observer.
So, mm-hmm.
, we've all had anexperience of anger, right?
(16:23):
So when we get angry, if you're not awarethat you're angry, you can just be angry.
and people, when they get angry,they lose their consciousness.
They actually losetheir mind, so to speak.
Yes.
. And then after anger subsides,you go, , man, what did I say?
What did I do?
What happened?
, that's when we have to come back andsay, I'm so sorry I said that, or, I'm
so sorry I did that because we, I waslike, I don't know what I was thinking.
(16:45):
Like, what were you thinking?
Like I wasn't thinking.
I, I, I was, I was kind oftaken for, I was taken over
for a moment, taken for a ride.
That anger took us forever.
So first to wait, to wait to likestart, to start to empower yourself
from that is start to pay attention.
It sounds really easyand cliche, but it's not.
It's very profound.
You start to realize what is itthat, what is it that's taking
(17:08):
my freedom in this moment?
Meaning what's key?
What.
Causes me to lose my, my control.
Is it what?
What makes me angry?
Start paying attention to thethings that make me, I hate it
when this person says this or hateit when this person does this.
I hate it when, youknow, whatever it may be.
If you're locked up behind bars, it'slike, I hate this guard, or I hate
when they do this, or I hate whateverit may be, or this certain person.
(17:31):
Like, pay attention to that becausethat person is, is in control of you.
Nobody wants to be controlled by anybody.
I was like, but you wanna be free.
You have to stop giving your power away.
So start figuring out where, what'smaking you angry because that's the
people that have power over you.
Then the second question is, whyhave you given them that power?
Cuz only you can give it.
(17:52):
Typically just asking the questionwhat, why does this affect me?
Because it is affect, it's okay to beaffected, but just start to realize why
does this person or situation affect me?
And here's what I tell people.
It's never about that situation.
It's always about the past.
, your anger is rooted.
The roots of your anger is in the past.
(18:13):
Believe it or not.
That's where it is because if youdidn't have the past, you had,
this would just be a situation.
It would just be somebody else's issue.
But because it feels personal,it's about your past.
Where have I felt this previously?
This kind of anger, and go back to that.
Learn to see it.
Just becoming aware of it.
What happens is it, there's somethingthat happens, and this isn't conscious,
(18:35):
but it happens physiologically.
What happens?
As soon as you start gettingaware, this person makes me angry
because my dad was like that guy.
Oh, I felt this kind of anger withmy dad or my brother, or whatever.
Something happened in the past.
There is some connection orelse you wouldn't feel it.
(18:55):
So it's a trigger.
We can only, so nobody, and,and this is a rule thumb, nobody
can make you feel anything.
How you feel comes from the inside.
Now people can triggeryou to feel some things.
Now, that's a key distinction, right?
Because if if you, if the energy wasn'tinside already you, they couldn't trigger
it, it wouldn't be there to be triggered.
(19:19):
So that's why Jesus said that whichcorrupts a person is not from the
outside, it's on the inside, right?
Mm-hmm.
. Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
. It's learning to say, okay, let's cleanthe inside of the cup so the out, don't
focus on the outside, focus on the inside.
Why is this affecting me?
If we focus on the outside, whichis that person or situation,
we're gonna be disempowered.
They're not the onemaking you feel this way.
(19:40):
Mm-hmm.
, and this is, this is where we start totake control of our life and go, okay.
I feel even just if you're angry, justto say, I feel angry, not I am angry.
Mm-hmm.
, I feel angry just bysaying that it release.
the control.
So we're gonna, we're gonna go back.
I know you said at one point, but Iwanna go back a little bit because
(20:03):
like, we can't really control otherpeople unless they give us that ability,
and that's through triggering them.
I mean mm-hmm.
, I, I think about, remember DennisRodman, uh, how he played ball and stuff?
(20:27):
Mm-hmm.
, he would get in the head, he would get'em angry, and then that's when they would
make . They would make those mistakes.
So, totally.
And they would only, they werethen, he was then in control.
So, but that's only becausethey gave him control.
So, but that's why.
(20:48):
, they're actually being imprisoned.
They allow themselves to be imprisonedthemselves by that when they get into that
anger, cuz they are no longer in control.
So that really explains the tension.
I like that.
So the other one you said is intention.
Intention?
Mm-hmm.
. Okay.
So intention.
Intention is simply, um, it'sconnected to desire, right?
(21:11):
So how do I want toexperience this moment?
So it's that, that's, and that's takesnow, now that, you know, you can go
really deep with that in the senseof intention is all, if we're gonna
give it a de definition, how you woulddefine intention is focused awareness.
Right?
It's focused awareness.
Mm-hmm.
, now intention is creating your.
(21:34):
, your life's experiences areliterally created through
intention focused awareness.
So where your focus goes.
The principle here, and this iskind of said in the coaching world a
lot where focus goes, energy flows.
Mm-hmm.
. So where you put your focus is what you'regonna energize, you're gonna create.
So the question is, make sure yourfocus is on what you want it to be.
(21:55):
Because if your focus is on what youdon't want, that's what you're empowering.
So only empower what youwant, not what you don't want.
So that's, that's where fo that's whywe have to learn to shift our focus.
Now it intention is working for everybody.
It's just not working for usuntil we get conscious of it.
Because for years, my focusedawareness was on things I didn't want.
And it was on, I don't wannaexperience this, I don't want this to
(22:17):
happen, I don't want this to happen.
It was very fear-based.
And so when we're driven by fear, ourfocus is on the things we don't want.
And that tends to be the thingsthat happen because where
focus goes, energy flows.
So you have to, we have to learn toshift our focus to what we actually want.
And that starts first and foremostin the inner perception, beginning to
(22:38):
perceive what we want and experienceit as if it's already there before
it even physically manifests.
That's, but that's how we create mm-hmm.
the life we want.
And I tell you where this comes out.
I mean, it's powerful.
The, the, the, I remember listeningto a medical doctor talk about
this one time he was a, he had acancer patient that he was treating.
And this lady had come in andshe was, unfortunately, they
(23:01):
caught the cancer way too late.
And, uh, it was way beyond stage four,so she really couldn't be treated.
Uh, it was, it was a terminal, but hedidn't tell her that, uh, for whatever,
I don't know exactly how they gotaround this, but it was, she was a
candidate for what they call placebo.
Mm-hmm.
. So this doctor said, we have to, hetold her the truth, you know, you're
stage four is, is very aggressive.
(23:22):
He said, we have to start you inaggressive chemotherapy immediately.
Mm-hmm.
. And when he told her that, shesaid, okay, okay, I'll do it.
Whatever.
But it was a placebo.
He didn't tell her thatit was just nothing.
It was, it was no drug, but nothing.
Her hair fell out.
She started taking theplacebo, her hair fell out.
She started throwing up all the symptomsof chemotherapy, but it was nothing.
(23:45):
It was a placebo.
And he realized in that moment,like the power, like why?
Like she's literallymanifesting in her body.
Mm-hmm.
what she believed.
And it was just a placebo.
Because we have the power actually in our,that we've been created in such a way that
how we perceive becomes manifest reality.
(24:07):
Like we're literally creatorsimagination the power of imagination.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you think about it, you know,from a spiritual perspective, if we're
made in the image and likeness of God,which is what we're told, you know,
the scriptures that we're made in theimage and likeness, we go, what is God?
God's a.
So we're creating, when we lookat the world, the way the world
is, who's doing this ? We are.
(24:27):
So you're saying though, likesomeone that's incarcerated or
you know, ha is in survival mode.
Their focus is wrong.
They're focusing on the wrong things.
And so that's where they're being led toand all their actions because of Yeah,
and, and we could do, we could, we coulddo the reverse engineering where we look
(24:50):
back at the past and go, this action ledto this action, which led to this action,
which eventually led to the incarceration.
Right.
So our that, that when it manifestsand shows up physically and the
physical space and time is alwaysthe last stage of creation.
, we, we tend to focus on itas if it's the first stage.
(25:11):
It's not, it's the last stage.
So if you want to change the reality,you don't change the external.
That's the last thing that manifests.
You change the energyand the focus internally.
That's when you're, you start to changethe world, get to the roots of it.
Mm-hmm.
, which is the spiritual,because Absolutely, yeah.
The s spirit.
Spiritual is what makes up the physical.
That's the control area.
(25:32):
Mm-hmm.
is the internal.
Yeah.
I'm totally in agreement.
This is, uh, fascinating and I hope myaudience, you know, if you've been in,
if you are incarcerated, you know, if youtake in the things what Jamal just said
about attention and intention, so it'slike when they're responding to a guard,
(26:03):
their response will be different Now.
Absolutely.
Because yeah, the, the guardonly has external control,
but not internal control.
Hmm.
And, and, and that's the most important.
So, you know, you don't have togive your power away to anybody,
a corrections officer, anybody.
You keep that power yourselfby choosing how to respond.
(26:27):
And then you're free, even thoughyou'll be physically incarcerated,
but you won't be spiritually ormentally, so to speak, right.
Incarcerated because the totally,and that's where your life is.
Your whole life is inside, inside you.
It's not out there.
So y you being in control of yourlife, this is how you get control
(26:47):
over it and the actions, the way yourespond to not just prison guards,
but to everybody, everybody willdetermine what your life becomes.
So you said attention, they got towatch those triggers ex I call it
the science of examining and testing.
Yes.
Um, and looking at what'sactually triggering them.
(27:09):
And you said something from their past.
So yeah.
The way, the reason we feel acertain way about something is
because we're being triggered.
That energy is insideof us to get triggered.
Somebody may do something in a certainway that triggers us, but that that
means it was already there beforethat person said or did anything.
(27:31):
That means that energy was alreadythere, that anger was already there.
So the question's, where did it come from?
And it's usually the past,something unresolved from
the past that's still there.
So there's another principlethat's very powerful in this
work, and that is what you feel.
You heal what you feel, you heal.
So if you can learn to feel it.
(27:52):
, there's a way to actually feelanger in a way that actually
empowers you versus disempowers you.
So when you, let's say somebody sayssomething and really get, triggers you,
and you wanna attack them, or you wannafight 'em, or whatever it may be, okay?
So if you, if you lash out in that angerat that person is disempowering because
what you're doing is you're sayingthey're, they're the source of my pain.
(28:14):
They're not, they're just the trigger,the source of your pain's inside of you.
So if you can go inside andgo, okay, what am I feeling?
When have I felt I actually asked thequestion, when when's the earliest?
I can remember feeling this.
Have I felt this before?
Yeah.
When, and then memories will come,memories will start coming to mind, oh,
I felt this way when so-and-so did thisin the past or whenever this happened.
(28:37):
Let's feel it.
So what do you do?
I, I like to ask people, wheredo you feel it in the body?
It's a kind of a strange question.
, usually when you get angry, you feel it.
Either it's your chest, sometimes it'syour neck back, it's your head stomach.
Sometimes it's okay, wherever it is.
Io find it, it's find it.
Where is it in the body?
You take your hand, you put it there.
You just feel it.
(28:58):
And just take some, start, start doingsome deep pa like, tune into it, feel it.
The sensation, . Causewhat you feel, you heal it.
It's not pleasant, but it, whatyou're doing is you're getting
present with it and you're lettingit, cuz it's trying to get out.
Mm-hmm.
, see, it's trapped energy in the body.
And it's the past trying to, it'sliterally trying to get out because when
it, when it happened, maybe it was traumain the past, we weren't able to process
(29:21):
it then because we were, it wasn't safe.
Maybe we had to get out of thesituation quickly or whatever, and
we were in fight or flight mode.
That means we weren't equippedto process it in the past.
But this is why it comes back upbecause we're trying, your body's
literally trying to expel it.
. So the person who you think is yourenemy or nemesis that's triggering
you is actually your healer.
(29:43):
In reality, they're, they're being usedas a tool to trigger you to get this
energy to come up so you can release it.
It's, it, you know, it's kind of a crudeanalogy, but let's say you eat bad food.
You know, if you eat bad foodimmediately, the body's gonna
try to get it out, get rid of it.
Mm-hmm.
. So in order, but in order forit to come out, it's gotta come
up and that's not pleasant.
(30:05):
Mm-hmm.
, it's part of the process though.
So you're saying, so sending emotions.
Thank you.
So adversity is part of the process, soit's actually, it's a key to healing.
Yes.
It's an opportunity, so to speak.
Yep.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I like that too.
Um, so in your book,living to To Live, right?
(30:29):
Living For Living.
Mm-hmm.
Living For Living, isthat in your book that.
Process you just wentthrough a little bit?
Not a lot of it.
, some of it is the, the book reallygets into the, it's more of a,
, examining these concepts from anintellectual standpoint and also
my story of, of things that I did,choices, decisions I made throughout.
(30:51):
So it kind, it's kind of there,but it's more , in the format of,
uh, example, , it's really meant tobefore, see, before these techniques can
actually have it have its proper effect.
We almost have to change our wayof thinking about certain things
because most people honestly arestill convinced that my salvation of
my solutions are gonna come out here.
Mm-hmm.
(31:12):
. And they don't, this is whyit's an internal reality.
This is why Jesus said the kingdom of.
Is within you.
Right?
It's in here.
It's not out there.
Yeah.
That's, that was news to people.
It's temple.
Mm-hmm.
. Yep.
. So you have to shift your, likeeven the word repentance, you know,
if we're gonna use that language,like, like Jesus, the first thing
he would always say is, repent.
Because the kingdom of heaven is ahand, which I know that can sound
(31:35):
weird to some people, but theword actually means repentance.
Means to change your mind.
Yeah.
Turn around.
Mm-hmm.
, it's a shift.
It's a shift in the mindset, the thinking.
And if that has to come first,because the mind will block you
from being able to move into thiswork, the mind will actually,
will actually throw up roadblocks.
Like, uh, that's easy for youto say, but this person out
(31:56):
here , blah, blah, blah, blah.
Or this situation out here ismy, the reason I'm suffering.
And it, it'll try to assignthat kind of blame because our
thinking has not changed yet.
That it took me a l it took me personallyyears to realize I was creating my pain.
Unconsciously.
Mm-hmm.
(32:17):
, that's a hard one because itfelt like blame, but it's, it's
not about blame, it's just aboutrealizing the power we have.
Right.
We are so powerful.
We can create powerlessness.
Right.
When someone says I can't do this.
That's right.
Because that's how powerful you are.
. You create that reality.
Yeah.
So that's how it's so badwhen people don't have hope.
(32:37):
Mm-hmm.
, it's you.
You won't be able to create anything.
You won't be able to do anything cuzhopelessness don't have anything.
There's nothing inthere to create with, so.
Right.
You need something to create with.
So I really like this.
So if someone wanted to be involvedin just being coached by you, how
(33:03):
would they get in touch with you?
Yeah, the best, the best way isprobably through just practically
speaking, is through the website.
Mm-hmm.
So I have a website and then my websiteis, uh, the links to my book is there.
I have a podcast that's there andalso the coaching, um, journey.
All of that is there andhow to get in touch with me,
contact all that stuff's there.
(33:24):
And my website is Jam Jamal,it's just my first and last
name, so it's jamal joji.com.
Okay.
I'll put that in the show notes.com.
So, because I, , I think yourbackground it, that, even though at
first it looked all kind of fuzzyis like , it's, you know, having,
you know, um, cuz you can speak to.
(33:48):
People from Islam as well as Catholicsand from a prison perspective
and give this coaching and youcan really reach a lot of people.
So that's why I was wanting to knowhow people can come alongside with
you if they wanted to work morewith you and get this coaching.
I love his hat.
(34:08):
I know people can't see that he hasthis, it looks like, is that a Red Cross
hat or it's, it's like it's averted.
It's sim.
Yeah, it's similar.
Is looks like the Red Cross,but it is actually a Swiss flag.
I have a friend from Switzerlandthat came to visit and he brought
me that, that's their flag.
Uh oh.
But it looks just like the Red Crossand that's why I wear it actually.
(34:30):
Okay.
Because it, it's a reminderof my, of my purpose.
I think so too.
That's what I got from like the image,you know, with you talking about, you
know, taking your pulse and tryingto figure out where the pain is.
I like that.
Um, I like that demonstration andjust showing people really just
how to, how to examine themselves.
(34:52):
Like how women would, , check forbreast cancer or some sort of lump or
something that we should be also doingthat sort of a thing, um, with other
types of pain and paying attentionto our pain and being in the moment.
We miss so much, like you said, cuzwe're not in the present mm-hmm.
. Um, and that's how we justdon't focus on what we can do.
(35:15):
So that's part of a, I think how,um, Why it's so bad to be not focused
and just having all that distractionbecause this culture kind of has
that everywhere from on a computerto popups, um, your phone ringing.
Um, it's so, it's so easy for people toget in touch with you now cuz you carrying
(35:35):
your phone and they can always, you cantext you, email you, you know what's up.
You, it's so many ways theycan get, they can reach you.
It's like, I look at that as like,sometimes you just need to be in a quiet
place and I think that's one of the reasonwhy I think that people in prison can
look, find those opportunities, thoseplaces of opportunities that they have.
(36:00):
I'm not saying it's fortunate so much thatthey're there, but utilize what you do
have there because people on the outsidenormally don't have, have that time.
So is there anything else you wanna.
Say to the audience, whatbig statement would you say?
, I, I really thank you for being here.
(36:21):
That's being a life coach.
I think you're perfect for theposition and I'm pretty sure
people are gonna contact you justbecause of you give the, the care.
, people listen to people whothey feel that care about them.
So I, I know you'regonna make a big impact.
(36:42):
Mm-hmm.
So what statement would you have,, big statement would you, , have
for people that's in prison, outtaprison, whether it's, , a family
member of someone, , that's in prison?
What would, what would yousay to them as a coach?
Hmm.
, well, thank, first of all, I just wannasay thank you for, , just the generosity
you've extended for me to be on your show.
(37:04):
It's, I really have enjoyed being with youand having this conversation, and I would
tell people, That are listening to this.
And I would just say, you know, and I,I've, I've, my years of experience have
shown me that everything's on purpose.
There are no coincidences or accidents.
Your life is not an accident.
Your, your being here in thismoment is not an accident.
(37:28):
If it, if your life didn'tmatter, you wouldn't be here.
And you are here right now andyou're listening to this because
you are meant to listen to this.
And it's because your futureis dependent upon this moment.
And what you do with it, and it's, and youare literally in control of this, is the,
you know, God has given you the keys, , tothis quote unquote internal reality, this
(37:53):
internal kingdom that's been given to you.
And, , your hope isfound, , in that place.
And so it may sound cliche, but, there's a bright future in front of
you because the future is literallycontingent upon the power that you
have in this moment, which is infinite.
And, it's okay that you may not see thator near, or or experience that in the f
(38:16):
in the fullness as it is in this moment.
But just pay attention to this moment.
And then I always like to tellpeople, what's your takeaway?
You know, what is your onetakeaway from this conversation?
Probably, there's probably beenseveral things, but if you can just
boil it down, what's your one takeawayand just chew on that for a while,
get clear about it, chew on it.
You don't have to worryabout what to do with it.
(38:36):
It will take root in you and itwill sprout and give life to,
and it'll just happen naturally.
Wow.
Yes.
Thank you.
And you even have thevoice of meditation too.
Like you could just listen and belike, oh, I'm in all in that moment.
, I have to open my eyes.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm, I'm doing a podcast, Michelle.
(38:57):
Okay.
Doing that now.
But this is a great show.
I really enjoyed you, Jamal,and I'm pretty sure the
audience enjoyed you as well.
So thank you for being here.
And you all make sure you hitJamal up and tell 'em Mechi
j sent you from a prisoner's.
Pardon.
it's perception, the reality is, is thatpeople are in prison long before they
(00:04):
come to prison because they tend to feel.
Disempowered, limited, stuck.
So we're in then an, now we're inreaction mode or survival mode.
That's prison.
So prison happens first and foremostinternally, and so does freedom.
(00:38):
Hello, and welcome to aprisoner's part in podcast.
I'm your host Meechie J.
Today we are finishing up myconversation with Jamal Javan, G the ex.
Correctional officer who now has turnedlife coach in also, he is a bestselling
author of the book living for a living.
(00:59):
Last week was an eye-opener on howcorrectional officers view inmates.
If you didn't get a chance to listen,please go back and listen to how
correctional officers are trainedand the uniqueness of their job.
Jamal now goes into his perspectiveas a life coach now and living
for a living it how a person whois in prison can also do that.
(01:26):
Let's continue that conversation.
Jamal Say they're inside andyou say a living for a living.
What would you tell them?
How would they live for aliving if they're incarcerated?
I mean, is is it possible?
I would always say not only is itpossible, it's actually, and this may
sound crazy, It might even be easier,you know, I'm not, I think so too.
(01:51):
So go ahead.
Why do you think so?
Because the illusion is taken away.
When you're locked up, when you'rebehind bars, you know the illusion
of what your life could be.
You know, because peopleoutside, they think their life
is all these things, right?
Money and cars and houses andall the stuff we get into.
And that's really not the light.
That's not the, and they're miserable.
And so prison is perception, right?
(02:13):
I always say you could live, youknow, in your, in your dream home.
And if someone came to the door,as they say, a police officer comes
to the door and says, okay, butyou're under house arrest and you
can't leave that, that dream homesuddenly becomes your prison, right?
So it's perception, but the realityis, is that people are in prison
(02:35):
long before they come to prisonbecause they, they tend to feel.
Disempowered, limited, stuck.
So we're in then an, now we're inreaction mode or survival mode.
That's prison.
So when you're locked up behind bars,the illusion's taken away, right?
So prison happens first and foremostinternally, and so does freedom.
(02:57):
So to be free, what do you need?
Well, freedom is simply consciousnessof your own power and your own choice.
See, we're all sentenced to life.
I always tell everybody, everyone of us is sentenced to life,
and most people feel like they'reimprisoned to their circumstances,
to their body, to their story.
Everyone feels like a prisoner.
(03:17):
Most people feel by default feellike this is, I'm limited to this.
So we're all sentenced to life.
The question is, how doyou wanna deal your life?
Sentence, right?
You're, we all have life.
How do you wanna do it?
Do you wanna do it hard ordo you wanna do it easy?
Do you wanna do it well?
Do you wanna enjoy it?
Because in this moment, Your experienceof this moment is an internal experience.
Nobody can tell you how to do this moment,no corrections officer can tell you
(03:42):
that you can't be joyful in this moment.
You can't enjoy your, your, your, yourexperience of life in this moment.
You can actually, if you learn how totake control of the inner process, the
inner process is the only thing youactually have a hundred percent control
over is your inner experience of life.
Um, the illusion is that we havecontrol over other people, over
(04:04):
situations outside of ourself.
This causes us to feel disempowered.
But whether you're outside of a prisonor inside of a prison, your inner
experience of your own life is all youhave ever had control over, and it's
all you will ever have control over.
So if you can learn to take controlover your inner experience, you,
you become liberated and free.
(04:27):
It doesn't matter where you are.
You could be standing outside in a forest,you could be standing in a city, you
could be inside of a prison, you know,PR prison facility or outside of it.
That makes no difference cuz theexternal does not determine the
internal, the internal is what determinesyour quality of life and eventually
will determine your external world.
(04:48):
Hmm.
So I agree with you that it's,it can be an opportunity while
they're there, um, to look, toget out of what The survival mode.
Mm-hmm.
, they can get out of the survivalmode there and get into the
living mode into living abs.
(05:10):
Okay.
Absolutely.
Well see, I've known, I've known peoplethat were who, who were in prison and
they chose to see it as a university.
They chose, they actually made a choice.
And they said, I am in, I'm inuniversity and I'm here to learn.
This is a teaching.
This, this entire time is here.
(05:31):
I'm here to learn.
You have, you have accessto a lot of people.
They'll teach you if you pay attentionto people, people who are suffering,
people who are disempowered, just watchthey'll, you can learn from their stories.
You have access to information.
Like you have time thatyou've never had before.
You don't have to worryabout paying the bills.
You know where yourfood's gonna come from.
All that's provided for you.
You can take a thank you.
(05:52):
I'm gonna use this timenow to educate myself.
You can read, you can learn how toget in, get in touch with what you're
feeling, why you're feeling what you'refeeling, where does that come from?
And then how do you take control of that?
How do you clear and heal the past?
How do you begin to take advantageof opportunities every day?
Because if you can do itthere, you can do it anywhere.
(06:12):
And that's what it's about.
It's about learning howto live, um, and your.
Prison.
There's a, there's a real, Iknow it sounds when we focus
on our lack of choice, right?
We say, okay, I'm not,don't choose to be here.
Somebody the state, put me here.
You know, the judge put me here.
Whatever.
Okay?
Then we're gonna feel like a victim.
We're gonna feel totallydisempowered, okay?
(06:32):
Mm-hmm.
. But if you shift it to, I'vebeen given a new lease on life.
Uh, this is a reset.
My life that led me here is over.
Cuz the past, it's over, doesn't it?
Where's always tell me, where's the past?
You can't find it anywhere.
It's only in your mind.
It's just the memories of it.
It doesn't exist.
So literally, you, this is new,this experience new the rest of your
(06:55):
life is g is yet to be determined.
It is going to be determined byhow you respond to this moment,
this season that you're in.
So you decide how you're gonna do life.
Mm-hmm.
, you're, you know, uh, we're allsentenced to life, but how you
do it is being created by you.
We could do it well.
Empowered free.
Or we could do it with our focuson all the things we don't control,
(07:18):
which is all the external things.
So none of us, whether we're inprisoner or out, have control of
the external worlds that we're,that we are interacting with.
The only world we have controlover is our internal environment.
That's it is.
So many people, I think Jamal don't getthat because they're trying to control
(07:38):
it and that's why they're going nuts.
, you know, cuz they're thinkingthey can control something
that's out of their control.
That's not their job.
I say I look at it that way.
So you, I like how you turn the focus awayfrom I say the victim mentality and get
(08:00):
them to understand that, uh, giving them.
A conqueror mentality,you know, I'm Christian.
Mm-hmm.
, and you know, I'll say things, saythat, uh, cuz I'm quoting word cuz he
gives us, um, not the spirit of fear,you know, and that is totally opposite
from the word that's victim mentality.
Because if you have, if youhave that victim mentality, you
(08:24):
have no expectations but low.
Right.
So you switched the guy's mentality.
It's almost like you turned aswitch on on him in there and he
was like somewhere else already.
And not just in that hole.
And that's interestingthat you gotta talk.
(08:44):
You um, had a ministry in thehole, while they were in the hole.
Mm-hmm.
. So that is good to know theycan start their training inside.
They don't have to wait to, oh, whenI get out I'm gonna do this and that.
You know, it starts now . So, oh, ifit doesn't start now, it's not very
gonna start because that's the, that'sthe, I'll be happy when syndrome right
(09:07):
people, I'll be happy when that day inthe fu It's like that day never comes.
You know, I have a signon my, in my office here.
It's, it's on the wall.
It says today is the tomorrow.
You talked about, oh, I like that.
Today is, today you talk.
It's the tomorrow.
Oh, today, today is the, today isthe tomorrow that you talked about.
You know, cause we, we, wealways say tomorrow I'll do this
(09:27):
tomorrow in the future I'll dothis with, well, that's today.
So it starts now and it'samazing what can happen.
W the, the where your life can lead.
You know, I, I know folks thatwere locked up in prison and
had been for most of their adultlife that are now millionaires.
That are living well, doing amazingwork in the world because of what they
(09:50):
chose to do when they were locked up.
Because they chose to get ahold oftheir inner inner sense of being.
And they, they chose that they were gonnamaximize life and they were chose, they
chose to see prison as a university oftraining for the rest of their life.
And now they're living it.
And it's, you know, easy peoplelike, oh, you're living lar, you
know, look at how you're living now.
It's all, I mean, it's like,but that didn't start there.
(10:13):
It started when they were doing time.
Mm-hmm.
, it's where, it's where their life started.
And, and, and everybody, I always say,the rest of the way you spend the rest
of your life is gonna be determinedby what you do at this moment.
And it's interesting that you say that,that they became, um, very successful.
Mm-hmm.
and did anything else change?
(10:34):
So they became successful in noneof these outward circumstances.
Changed.
Nothing changed.
Nothing changed.
They got outta, they, when they gotoutta prison, they were living in a, you
know, 200 square foot room with nothing.
But he such gratitudefor life and existence.
(10:55):
And when you have that kind of gratitudeand for life and you feel like this is
a gift, you know, really life is a gift.
It comes from the source, the divine God.
You know, it's been given, it'sbeen entrusted to us and we, it's
entrusted everybody, but we don't,not everybody sees it or perceives
it as that gift, but if you can startseeing that this is a gift I'm alive
today, what are you gonna do with it?
(11:17):
You show up for it.
You experience the fullness ofit, and you treat it as a gift.
It's amazing what you canmake out of your life.
Anybody you don't need,you actually, it's free.
You don't, so what?
Yep.
What you're saying is likerevenue revolutionary and.
. So it's a gift and it'sthe present, of course,
(11:39):
Mm-hmm.
. So it's the present.
So if they are thankful, it givesa new attitude and perspective,
because I've seen it where whenyou're thankful you're not wasteful.
That's right.
That that's right.
You and, and, and, andthere, there's a principle.
(11:59):
It's, it's a, it's likethe law of gravity.
It's like the law of the universe.
Mm-hmm.
, it's the, the whateveryou give attention to.
Mm-hmm.
will flourish in the manner in which you.
Of the, it's it, it will flourishin the, in the context of the
kind of attention you give to it.
So when you give something attention,if you see something as a gift, it will
give back to you in that same manner.
(12:21):
So what Jesus said that he said, giveand it will be given back to you,
shaken together, press down, shakentogether, and running over in the same
manner, in the manner in which youjudge it will be returned back to you.
So it's, this is a principle ofthis isn't the way life works.
It's not really punishment orreward as much as it's, this
is just, it's like gravity.
It's a principle.
, yeah.
It's just a law.
It's like whatever, you know,your reward is either good or
(12:43):
bad, is just a re it is a reward.
It's like sea time and harvest.
So Totally.
Yeah.
So to say and reaping.
Exactly.
And if they get that pr, that principlealone would change everything.
. Totally.
A hundred percent.
Totally.
So what you were saying, so they changedtheir life and nothing changed af outside.
(13:07):
It was just inside.
And then, Hmm.
That's it.
That's where the whole worldis experienced, is inside.
Mm-hmm.
, it's, we never experiencedanything outside.
Mm-hmm.
. So our inner experience is alwaysinternal, and that happens to be
the domain where we have the mostcontrol, is our internal experience.
So again, it's a process.
(13:29):
I, it's, this is, you know, it, it's a,it's a, it's a, there is a process to it
where we learn it's a practice, right?
This is why there's certain things thatyou end up putting into place in your
life in a day in, day out basis that takestime to, to, because we're all, you know,
we all have tendencies and patterns, uh,from the past, so from unconsciousness.
(13:49):
So it's, it, it, again, that'swhy I got into coaching work
because it's, it's about helpingpeople learn a new way to be.
It's, again, engaging in that process.
So, you know, it requires patience.
It's not an overnight process, but,uh, it is a process and it, it, uh,
always tell people it's the hardest.
, easiest work you ever do.
Meaning it's challenging to breakpatterns, but it, it leads to a
(14:14):
life of ease because again, mm-hmm.
, it doesn't matter what'shappening out here.
The ease is internal.
Even Jesus said, with all the problemsthat Jesus had in life, right?
, he said, if you're tired and heavylaid, and if you're burdened,
learn from me because my yokeis easy and my burden is light.
That, so he's saying, this is the way I'mexperiencing life internally, easy and
(14:35):
light, despite all the problems out here.
So it's not about the external,it never is what you gonna
upset a lot of people there.
Um, um, the cart, so to speak.
So now I like what you're saying herebecause this is like getting down to the,
the nitty gritty, the principal themes.
(14:56):
So as a coach, you have someone.
That you're working with because whatyou're, you're doing here, you're
helping people not be institutionalizedbecause it's a lot of people that
can naturally go into that withoutunderstanding these principles.
(15:17):
So if you were working with someone thatfailed to get this information while they
ran in and they're out now and they'reinstitutionalized, so to speak, what
would you say to get them to see thisnow that they can turn their life around?
(15:40):
What would be the first thing you wouldtalk to someone who's just getting out?
Totally.
So, uh, first thing I, I, I like todo is, is to increase, uh, awareness.
So I, in my coaching work, there'sreally two things that, that happen.
Again, it's a process, so it's not,doesn't happen quickly, but it's, the two
things is attention and then intention.
(16:02):
So, attention is awareness.
So what we want to do is we wannastart increasing our awareness
because when you become more aware,there's a separation that occurs.
Uh, or I say there's a gap.
So again, there's, the principle is that,which is observed cannot be the observer.
So, mm-hmm.
, we've all had anexperience of anger, right?
(16:23):
So when we get angry, if you're not awarethat you're angry, you can just be angry.
and people, when they get angry,they lose their consciousness.
They actually losetheir mind, so to speak.
Yes.
. And then after anger subsides,you go, , man, what did I say?
What did I do?
What happened?
, that's when we have to come back andsay, I'm so sorry I said that, or, I'm
so sorry I did that because we, I waslike, I don't know what I was thinking.
(16:45):
Like, what were you thinking?
Like I wasn't thinking.
I, I, I was, I was kind oftaken for, I was taken over
for a moment, taken for a ride.
That anger took us forever.
So first to wait, to wait to likestart, to start to empower yourself
from that is start to pay attention.
It sounds really easyand cliche, but it's not.
It's very profound.
You start to realize what is itthat, what is it that's taking
(17:08):
my freedom in this moment?
Meaning what's key?
What.
Causes me to lose my, my control.
Is it what?
What makes me angry?
Start paying attention to thethings that make me, I hate it
when this person says this or hateit when this person does this.
I hate it when, youknow, whatever it may be.
If you're locked up behind bars, it'slike, I hate this guard, or I hate
when they do this, or I hate whateverit may be, or this certain person.
(17:31):
Like, pay attention to that becausethat person is, is in control of you.
Nobody wants to be controlled by anybody.
I was like, but you wanna be free.
You have to stop giving your power away.
So start figuring out where, what'smaking you angry because that's the
people that have power over you.
Then the second question is, whyhave you given them that power?
Cuz only you can give it.
(17:52):
Typically just asking the questionwhat, why does this affect me?
Because it is affect, it's okay to beaffected, but just start to realize why
does this person or situation affect me?
And here's what I tell people.
It's never about that situation.
It's always about the past.
, your anger is rooted.
The roots of your anger is in the past.
(18:13):
Believe it or not.
That's where it is because if youdidn't have the past, you had,
this would just be a situation.
It would just be somebody else's issue.
But because it feels personal,it's about your past.
Where have I felt this previously?
This kind of anger, and go back to that.
Learn to see it.
Just becoming aware of it.
What happens is it, there's somethingthat happens, and this isn't conscious,
(18:35):
but it happens physiologically.
What happens?
As soon as you start gettingaware, this person makes me angry
because my dad was like that guy.
Oh, I felt this kind of anger withmy dad or my brother, or whatever.
Something happened in the past.
There is some connection orelse you wouldn't feel it.
(18:55):
So it's a trigger.
We can only, so nobody, and,and this is a rule thumb, nobody
can make you feel anything.
How you feel comes from the inside.
Now people can triggeryou to feel some things.
Now, that's a key distinction, right?
Because if if you, if the energy wasn'tinside already you, they couldn't trigger
it, it wouldn't be there to be triggered.
(19:19):
So that's why Jesus said that whichcorrupts a person is not from the
outside, it's on the inside, right?
Mm-hmm.
. Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
. It's learning to say, okay, let's cleanthe inside of the cup so the out, don't
focus on the outside, focus on the inside.
Why is this affecting me?
If we focus on the outside, whichis that person or situation,
we're gonna be disempowered.
They're not the onemaking you feel this way.
(19:40):
Mm-hmm.
, and this is, this is where we start totake control of our life and go, okay.
I feel even just if you're angry, justto say, I feel angry, not I am angry.
Mm-hmm.
, I feel angry just bysaying that it release.
the control.
So we're gonna, we're gonna go back.
I know you said at one point, but Iwanna go back a little bit because
(20:03):
like, we can't really control otherpeople unless they give us that ability,
and that's through triggering them.
I mean mm-hmm.
, I, I think about, remember DennisRodman, uh, how he played ball and stuff?
(20:27):
Mm-hmm.
, he would get in the head, he would get'em angry, and then that's when they would
make . They would make those mistakes.
So, totally.
And they would only, they werethen, he was then in control.
So, but that's only becausethey gave him control.
So, but that's why.
(20:48):
, they're actually being imprisoned.
They allow themselves to be imprisonedthemselves by that when they get into that
anger, cuz they are no longer in control.
So that really explains the tension.
I like that.
So the other one you said is intention.
Intention?
Mm-hmm.
. Okay.
So intention.
Intention is simply, um, it'sconnected to desire, right?
(21:11):
So how do I want toexperience this moment?
So it's that, that's, and that's takesnow, now that, you know, you can go
really deep with that in the senseof intention is all, if we're gonna
give it a de definition, how you woulddefine intention is focused awareness.
Right?
It's focused awareness.
Mm-hmm.
, now intention is creating your.
(21:34):
, your life's experiences areliterally created through
intention focused awareness.
So where your focus goes.
The principle here, and this iskind of said in the coaching world a
lot where focus goes, energy flows.
Mm-hmm.
. So where you put your focus is what you'regonna energize, you're gonna create.
So the question is, make sure yourfocus is on what you want it to be.
(21:55):
Because if your focus is on what youdon't want, that's what you're empowering.
So only empower what youwant, not what you don't want.
So that's, that's where fo that's whywe have to learn to shift our focus.
Now it intention is working for everybody.
It's just not working for usuntil we get conscious of it.
Because for years, my focusedawareness was on things I didn't want.
And it was on, I don't wannaexperience this, I don't want this to
(22:17):
happen, I don't want this to happen.
It was very fear-based.
And so when we're driven by fear, ourfocus is on the things we don't want.
And that tends to be the thingsthat happen because where
focus goes, energy flows.
So you have to, we have to learn toshift our focus to what we actually want.
And that starts first and foremostin the inner perception, beginning to
(22:38):
perceive what we want and experienceit as if it's already there before
it even physically manifests.
That's, but that's how we create mm-hmm.
the life we want.
And I tell you where this comes out.
I mean, it's powerful.
The, the, the, I remember listeningto a medical doctor talk about
this one time he was a, he had acancer patient that he was treating.
And this lady had come in andshe was, unfortunately, they
(23:01):
caught the cancer way too late.
And, uh, it was way beyond stage four,so she really couldn't be treated.
Uh, it was, it was a terminal, but hedidn't tell her that, uh, for whatever,
I don't know exactly how they gotaround this, but it was, she was a
candidate for what they call placebo.
Mm-hmm.
. So this doctor said, we have to, hetold her the truth, you know, you're
stage four is, is very aggressive.
(23:22):
He said, we have to start you inaggressive chemotherapy immediately.
Mm-hmm.
. And when he told her that, shesaid, okay, okay, I'll do it.
Whatever.
But it was a placebo.
He didn't tell her thatit was just nothing.
It was, it was no drug, but nothing.
Her hair fell out.
She started taking theplacebo, her hair fell out.
She started throwing up all the symptomsof chemotherapy, but it was nothing.
(23:45):
It was a placebo.
And he realized in that moment,like the power, like why?
Like she's literallymanifesting in her body.
Mm-hmm.
what she believed.
And it was just a placebo.
Because we have the power actually in our,that we've been created in such a way that
how we perceive becomes manifest reality.
(24:07):
Like we're literally creatorsimagination the power of imagination.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you think about it, you know,from a spiritual perspective, if we're
made in the image and likeness of God,which is what we're told, you know,
the scriptures that we're made in theimage and likeness, we go, what is God?
God's a.
So we're creating, when we lookat the world, the way the world
is, who's doing this ? We are.
(24:27):
So you're saying though, likesomeone that's incarcerated or
you know, ha is in survival mode.
Their focus is wrong.
They're focusing on the wrong things.
And so that's where they're being led toand all their actions because of Yeah,
and, and we could do, we could, we coulddo the reverse engineering where we look
(24:50):
back at the past and go, this action ledto this action, which led to this action,
which eventually led to the incarceration.
Right.
So our that, that when it manifestsand shows up physically and the
physical space and time is alwaysthe last stage of creation.
, we, we tend to focus on itas if it's the first stage.
(25:11):
It's not, it's the last stage.
So if you want to change the reality,you don't change the external.
That's the last thing that manifests.
You change the energyand the focus internally.
That's when you're, you start to changethe world, get to the roots of it.
Mm-hmm.
, which is the spiritual,because Absolutely, yeah.
The s spirit.
Spiritual is what makes up the physical.
That's the control area.
(25:32):
Mm-hmm.
is the internal.
Yeah.
I'm totally in agreement.
This is, uh, fascinating and I hope myaudience, you know, if you've been in,
if you are incarcerated, you know, if youtake in the things what Jamal just said
about attention and intention, so it'slike when they're responding to a guard,
(26:03):
their response will be different Now.
Absolutely.
Because yeah, the, the guardonly has external control,
but not internal control.
Hmm.
And, and, and that's the most important.
So, you know, you don't have togive your power away to anybody,
a corrections officer, anybody.
You keep that power yourselfby choosing how to respond.
(26:27):
And then you're free, even thoughyou'll be physically incarcerated,
but you won't be spiritually ormentally, so to speak, right.
Incarcerated because the totally,and that's where your life is.
Your whole life is inside, inside you.
It's not out there.
So y you being in control of yourlife, this is how you get control
(26:47):
over it and the actions, the way yourespond to not just prison guards,
but to everybody, everybody willdetermine what your life becomes.
So you said attention, they got towatch those triggers ex I call it
the science of examining and testing.
Yes.
Um, and looking at what'sactually triggering them.
(27:09):
And you said something from their past.
So yeah.
The way, the reason we feel acertain way about something is
because we're being triggered.
That energy is insideof us to get triggered.
Somebody may do something in a certainway that triggers us, but that that
means it was already there beforethat person said or did anything.
(27:31):
That means that energy was alreadythere, that anger was already there.
So the question's, where did it come from?
And it's usually the past,something unresolved from
the past that's still there.
So there's another principlethat's very powerful in this
work, and that is what you feel.
You heal what you feel, you heal.
So if you can learn to feel it.
(27:52):
, there's a way to actually feelanger in a way that actually
empowers you versus disempowers you.
So when you, let's say somebody sayssomething and really get, triggers you,
and you wanna attack them, or you wannafight 'em, or whatever it may be, okay?
So if you, if you lash out in that angerat that person is disempowering because
what you're doing is you're sayingthey're, they're the source of my pain.
(28:14):
They're not, they're just the trigger,the source of your pain's inside of you.
So if you can go inside andgo, okay, what am I feeling?
When have I felt I actually asked thequestion, when when's the earliest?
I can remember feeling this.
Have I felt this before?
Yeah.
When, and then memories will come,memories will start coming to mind, oh,
I felt this way when so-and-so did thisin the past or whenever this happened.
(28:37):
Let's feel it.
So what do you do?
I, I like to ask people, wheredo you feel it in the body?
It's a kind of a strange question.
, usually when you get angry, you feel it.
Either it's your chest, sometimes it'syour neck back, it's your head stomach.
Sometimes it's okay, wherever it is.
Io find it, it's find it.
Where is it in the body?
You take your hand, you put it there.
You just feel it.
(28:58):
And just take some, start, start doingsome deep pa like, tune into it, feel it.
The sensation, . Causewhat you feel, you heal it.
It's not pleasant, but it, whatyou're doing is you're getting
present with it and you're lettingit, cuz it's trying to get out.
Mm-hmm.
, see, it's trapped energy in the body.
And it's the past trying to, it'sliterally trying to get out because when
it, when it happened, maybe it was traumain the past, we weren't able to process
(29:21):
it then because we were, it wasn't safe.
Maybe we had to get out of thesituation quickly or whatever, and
we were in fight or flight mode.
That means we weren't equippedto process it in the past.
But this is why it comes back upbecause we're trying, your body's
literally trying to expel it.
. So the person who you think is yourenemy or nemesis that's triggering
you is actually your healer.
(29:43):
In reality, they're, they're being usedas a tool to trigger you to get this
energy to come up so you can release it.
It's, it, you know, it's kind of a crudeanalogy, but let's say you eat bad food.
You know, if you eat bad foodimmediately, the body's gonna
try to get it out, get rid of it.
Mm-hmm.
. So in order, but in order forit to come out, it's gotta come
up and that's not pleasant.
(30:05):
Mm-hmm.
, it's part of the process though.
So you're saying, so sending emotions.
Thank you.
So adversity is part of the process, soit's actually, it's a key to healing.
Yes.
It's an opportunity, so to speak.
Yep.
Okay.
That makes sense.
I like that too.
Um, so in your book,living to To Live, right?
(30:29):
Living For Living.
Mm-hmm.
Living For Living, isthat in your book that.
Process you just wentthrough a little bit?
Not a lot of it.
, some of it is the, the book reallygets into the, it's more of a,
, examining these concepts from anintellectual standpoint and also
my story of, of things that I did,choices, decisions I made throughout.
(30:51):
So it kind, it's kind of there,but it's more , in the format of,
uh, example, , it's really meant tobefore, see, before these techniques can
actually have it have its proper effect.
We almost have to change our wayof thinking about certain things
because most people honestly arestill convinced that my salvation of
my solutions are gonna come out here.
Mm-hmm.
(31:12):
. And they don't, this is whyit's an internal reality.
This is why Jesus said the kingdom of.
Is within you.
Right?
It's in here.
It's not out there.
Yeah.
That's, that was news to people.
It's temple.
Mm-hmm.
. Yep.
. So you have to shift your, likeeven the word repentance, you know,
if we're gonna use that language,like, like Jesus, the first thing
he would always say is, repent.
Because the kingdom of heaven is ahand, which I know that can sound
(31:35):
weird to some people, but theword actually means repentance.
Means to change your mind.
Yeah.
Turn around.
Mm-hmm.
, it's a shift.
It's a shift in the mindset, the thinking.
And if that has to come first,because the mind will block you
from being able to move into thiswork, the mind will actually,
will actually throw up roadblocks.
Like, uh, that's easy for youto say, but this person out
(31:56):
here , blah, blah, blah, blah.
Or this situation out here ismy, the reason I'm suffering.
And it, it'll try to assignthat kind of blame because our
thinking has not changed yet.
That it took me a l it took me personallyyears to realize I was creating my pain.
Unconsciously.
Mm-hmm.
(32:17):
, that's a hard one because itfelt like blame, but it's, it's
not about blame, it's just aboutrealizing the power we have.
Right.
We are so powerful.
We can create powerlessness.
Right.
When someone says I can't do this.
That's right.
Because that's how powerful you are.
. You create that reality.
Yeah.
So that's how it's so badwhen people don't have hope.
(32:37):
Mm-hmm.
, it's you.
You won't be able to create anything.
You won't be able to do anything cuzhopelessness don't have anything.
There's nothing inthere to create with, so.
Right.
You need something to create with.
So I really like this.
So if someone wanted to be involvedin just being coached by you, how
(33:03):
would they get in touch with you?
Yeah, the best, the best way isprobably through just practically
speaking, is through the website.
Mm-hmm.
So I have a website and then my websiteis, uh, the links to my book is there.
I have a podcast that's there andalso the coaching, um, journey.
All of that is there andhow to get in touch with me,
contact all that stuff's there.
(33:24):
And my website is Jam Jamal,it's just my first and last
name, so it's jamal joji.com.
Okay.
I'll put that in the show notes.com.
So, because I, , I think yourbackground it, that, even though at
first it looked all kind of fuzzyis like , it's, you know, having,
you know, um, cuz you can speak to.
(33:48):
People from Islam as well as Catholicsand from a prison perspective
and give this coaching and youcan really reach a lot of people.
So that's why I was wanting to knowhow people can come alongside with
you if they wanted to work morewith you and get this coaching.
I love his hat.
(34:08):
I know people can't see that he hasthis, it looks like, is that a Red Cross
hat or it's, it's like it's averted.
It's sim.
Yeah, it's similar.
Is looks like the Red Cross,but it is actually a Swiss flag.
I have a friend from Switzerlandthat came to visit and he brought
me that, that's their flag.
Uh oh.
But it looks just like the Red Crossand that's why I wear it actually.
(34:30):
Okay.
Because it, it's a reminderof my, of my purpose.
I think so too.
That's what I got from like the image,you know, with you talking about, you
know, taking your pulse and tryingto figure out where the pain is.
I like that.
Um, I like that demonstration andjust showing people really just
how to, how to examine themselves.
(34:52):
Like how women would, , check forbreast cancer or some sort of lump or
something that we should be also doingthat sort of a thing, um, with other
types of pain and paying attentionto our pain and being in the moment.
We miss so much, like you said, cuzwe're not in the present mm-hmm.
. Um, and that's how we justdon't focus on what we can do.
(35:15):
So that's part of a, I think how,um, Why it's so bad to be not focused
and just having all that distractionbecause this culture kind of has
that everywhere from on a computerto popups, um, your phone ringing.
Um, it's so, it's so easy for people toget in touch with you now cuz you carrying
(35:35):
your phone and they can always, you cantext you, email you, you know what's up.
You, it's so many ways theycan get, they can reach you.
It's like, I look at that as like,sometimes you just need to be in a quiet
place and I think that's one of the reasonwhy I think that people in prison can
look, find those opportunities, thoseplaces of opportunities that they have.
(36:00):
I'm not saying it's fortunate so much thatthey're there, but utilize what you do
have there because people on the outsidenormally don't have, have that time.
So is there anything else you wanna.
Say to the audience, whatbig statement would you say?
, I, I really thank you for being here.
(36:21):
That's being a life coach.
I think you're perfect for theposition and I'm pretty sure
people are gonna contact you justbecause of you give the, the care.
, people listen to people whothey feel that care about them.
So I, I know you'regonna make a big impact.
(36:42):
Mm-hmm.
So what statement would you have,, big statement would you, , have
for people that's in prison, outtaprison, whether it's, , a family
member of someone, , that's in prison?
What would, what would yousay to them as a coach?
Hmm.
, well, thank, first of all, I just wannasay thank you for, , just the generosity
you've extended for me to be on your show.
(37:04):
It's, I really have enjoyed being with youand having this conversation, and I would
tell people, That are listening to this.
And I would just say, you know, and I,I've, I've, my years of experience have
shown me that everything's on purpose.
There are no coincidences or accidents.
Your life is not an accident.
Your, your being here in thismoment is not an accident.
(37:28):
If it, if your life didn'tmatter, you wouldn't be here.
And you are here right now andyou're listening to this because
you are meant to listen to this.
And it's because your futureis dependent upon this moment.
And what you do with it, and it's, and youare literally in control of this, is the,
you know, God has given you the keys, , tothis quote unquote internal reality, this
(37:53):
internal kingdom that's been given to you.
And, , your hope isfound, , in that place.
And so it may sound cliche, but, there's a bright future in front of
you because the future is literallycontingent upon the power that you
have in this moment, which is infinite.
And, it's okay that you may not see thator near, or or experience that in the f
(38:16):
in the fullness as it is in this moment.
But just pay attention to this moment.
And then I always like to tellpeople, what's your takeaway?
You know, what is your onetakeaway from this conversation?
Probably, there's probably beenseveral things, but if you can just
boil it down, what's your one takeawayand just chew on that for a while,
get clear about it, chew on it.
You don't have to worryabout what to do with it.
(38:36):
It will take root in you and itwill sprout and give life to,
and it'll just happen naturally.
Wow.
Yes.
Thank you.
And you even have thevoice of meditation too.
Like you could just listen and belike, oh, I'm in all in that moment.
, I have to open my eyes.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm, I'm doing a podcast, Michelle.
(38:57):
Okay.
Doing that now.
But this is a great show.
I really enjoyed you, Jamal,and I'm pretty sure the
audience enjoyed you as well.
So thank you for being here.
And you all make sure you hitJamal up and tell 'em Mechi
j sent you from a prisoner's.
Pardon.
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