September 23, 2024 • 49 mins
In this episode of the Prisoners' Pardon Podcast hosted by Michi J, guest Rob Davis discusses his lifelong battle with addiction and his path to recovery. Rob, a Milwaukee native, shares his experiences of living a seemingly successful life that eventually spiraled out of control due to substance abuse. He recounts how addiction had a tight grip on his life, leading to numerous incarcerations and the loss of important relationships. Highlighting the importance of spiritual recovery, Rob emphasizes the necessity of honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness in overcoming addiction. He discusses his involvement with Narcotics Anonymous and the transformative power of his faith in God. Rob's story serves as a profound reminder that recovery is possible with the right support, humility, and commitment to change. The episode underscores the broader message that everyone is recovering from something and encourages listeners to seek help and maintain strong spiritual and personal connections.
00:00 Introduction to Addiction
00:58 Welcome to the Podcast
01:15 Understanding Addiction as a Wrestling Match
03:17 Introducing Today's Guest: Rob Davis
03:59 Rob's Background and Early Life
05:45 The Onset of Addiction
06:42 The Recovery Journey
08:46 The Role of Honesty and Spirituality in Recovery
16:25 The Broader Scope of Addiction
17:59 Identifying Personal Addictions
19:45 Setting Boundaries and Staying Grounded
20:22 The Power of Prayer and Meditation
21:26 Surrender and Spiritual Awakening
24:53 The Role of Narcotics Anonymous
26:57 Personal Struggles and Redemption
36:54 The Importance of Relationships
48:07 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2:
there were times, many times (00:00):
undefined
(00:01):
where, I did not want to use.
You know, I'm saying I was done.
I was fed up.
I had been, , I had done enough damage.
I had wreaked enough havoc.
But there's a point where you're consumed.
We call it being caught in thegrip, an example that I can use
is, , I'm a parent, I'm a father.
So if I'm going to walk my child acrossthe street, I'm gonna have a grip on
(00:26):
their hand or their arm, you know, so Ican't, there's, they don't get hit by a
car or they don't walk in the street, I'mgoing to hold on, hold onto them firmly
and tightly, and that's the same comestrue when it comes to the disease of
addiction, you know, we're caught in it.
(00:58):
Hello everyone.
And welcome to at prisoners partin podcast with me, your host Michi
J today, we're going to be talkingabout addictions and how to recover.
My guests today.
Is going to adequately describe.
an addiction as somethingthat has a grip on you.
(01:19):
And I want you to think.
Of an addiction as a wrestling match.
If you seen any before, youknow that there's two wrestlers.
Think of one.
As addiction itself.
And the other one as Anindividual trying to recover.
Now let's just say addiction is agold medalist and has gone undefeated.
(01:44):
Many many times.
and He is right nowholding down many people.
How do
Track 1 - Michi J (01:51):
we
beat addiction?
How do you recover?
If you seen those matches, you'veseen the struggling wrestler.
Trying to flip the personover or pin them down.
Nothing seems to work.
This is the same case with addiction.
It has a grip on a person and it is tight.
(02:13):
And it is.
Nearly impossible.
to recover.
So when you're looking at thosewrestlers, What do you see?
When a person.
Can't get out of the grip.
He relaxes and stops.
He'd stopped struggling and just taps out.
He taps the mat to signal to the ref.
(02:35):
That he's done and needshis help to stop the match.
Well, this is the sameprinciple you use to get out.
Of the grip of addiction and recover.
You need to tap out.
In today's show my guests will talkabout how he was in the grip of addiction
(02:56):
and how his recovery came about.
I want you to listen and learn.
How tapping outlooks.
Who is the official referee?
And how tapping out.
You really win that match.
Okay now to talk to us about.
Addictions and recovery.
(03:17):
Is Mr.
Robert Davis.
He is a Milwaukee native.
He has three children.
He's dabbled in real estate.
He's now a machine operator andhe's also a house manager for a
faith based sober living facility.
Rob is also a recovering addict.
(03:38):
And he has been quitesuccessful in recovering.
He's going to share withus how he's done that.
Now, please join me in welcoming Rob.
Hi, Rob.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Hello. (03:49):
undefined
. How you doing?
Track 1 - Michi J (03:51):
Hey, all right.
I'm doing good.
It's great to have you here, Rob.
And I'm just here to listen to youand have you tell us your story.
Could you tell us a littlebit more about yourself?
Tell us about Rob.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, thank you so much for (04:03):
undefined
giving me an opportunity.
, my name is Rob Davis.
I'm 46.
I was born and raised in Milwaukee.
I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, Lutheran high school.
, I had a passion for golf.
, I pursued a career in the golfbusiness, uh, I went to college to
become a head golf professional, and Iworked at Black Wolf Run and Whistling
(04:26):
Straights up in Cola, Wisconsin.
, unfortunately, I was involvedin a car accident, as a result
of, the beginning, , of an earlyaddiction to drugs and alcohol.
I came home, from college and I startedselling cars and, , three and a half
years in, I never, never completed.
(04:47):
My degree was a bachelor's inbusiness and marketing with an
emphasis in the golf industry.
I became very successful at an earlyage, making, uh, making good money, um,
developed a passion for real estate.
And after 15, almost 16 yearsin the car business, I was able
(05:09):
to, , acquire three properties, twoin Wisconsin and one in Georgia.
Track 1 - Michi J (05:15):
Wow.
I didn't even know all this.
And , you come from a two parent home
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (05:20):
undefined
Yeah.
I come from a two parent home.
I'm , I was the youngest out of three.
My parents were a little older, um,unfortunately, both of them have
passed, but ironically, my momand dad had the same birthday, same
month, same day, different years.
My dad was born in 36 and my momwas born in 44, , March 29th.
Track 1 - Michi J (05:41):
Wow.
Rob, you said , youdeveloped , an addiction.
How did you actuallyget introduced to this?
Do you know what led to this addiction?
, GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: that's, uh, that's a really good question. (05:53):
undefined
Growing up, , I was, I was prettymuch a square, you know, I didn't
really drink or party in high school.
Um, but once I got to college, you know,I started to experiment a little bit and,
, I kind of found the party scene and, , Ireally had a personality where, I like
to please people, you know, I like to makepeople laugh and, you know, um, Looking
(06:18):
back now, I kind of was just wearinga mask all the time, you know, trying
to impress other people and try and,entertain them or make them laugh or make
them think I was cool or tough and, andI was essentially just trying to fit in.
Track 1 - Michi J (06:31):
so do you know why you felt the need to please other people?
I'm just wondering, have you ever,sat down and thought about that.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, today, , I work a recovery (06:42):
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program through Narcotics Anonymous.
I go to meetings, I have a sponsor.
I worked at 12 steps and, part of thatprogram and process is, , as you work
through the steps, you're, you're reallykind of peeling off layers of the onion
to uncover, um, some of those thingsthat you're asking about, you know,
(07:06):
like the, the why, you know, and as Icontinue to work through the program, I,
I'm learning more and more about myself.
You know, the, the more work that Ido and the more work that I put in.
Track 1 - Michi J (07:18):
So that's a work in progress.
So, yes.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Uh, it is, it really is. (07:21):
undefined
I mean, I came from a good upbringing.
I came from a good family.
I didn't, you know, um, it wasn'tmy environment that, that led
me to, to drugs and alcohol.
I like, I like to have fun.
You know, I never wanted toadmit that I was an addict.
In my mind, um, an addict was a junkiewho was shooting up heroin, you know,
(07:44):
I mean, I continued to tell myself,I just like to have a little fun.
I just like to party, you know.
, and as I've, , learned through theprogram, that, it's kind of hard
to, it's kind of hard to describe.
, Track 1 - Michi J (07:57):
you don't have to have the exact right words
and that's the beauty of it.
We can just, expressourselves we can just.
accept it's no judgment herebecause we all are recovering from
something and if we're honest withourselves, we have the same symptoms.
(08:17):
And that's what I like to talk abouthere is bringing us to light and
learning how to Heal from it and justforgiveness, forgiving ourselves,
allowing ourselves to forgive otherpeople because we're all the same.
We all have issues.
(08:38):
We all have things we needto just plainly recover from.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you. (08:44):
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You know, so today, , you know, I'm notashamed of the fact that, , that I went
through, uh, the things that I wentthrough and that, you know, I developed
an addiction and, um, now today I canadmit to the fact that, that, once
I started using, I couldn't stop.
(09:04):
You know, so, today when,whenever I introduce myself,
, that's how I introduce myself.
I'm, my name's Rob andI'm a recovering addict.
Well,
Track 1 - Michi J (09:14):
Yeah.
Some people may think, well, you're not.
Just a recovering addict, but why inyour estimation, do you need to say that?
Because I think it's awealth of information there.
So why do you need to say that?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: um, one of the things that I've (09:34):
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learned, through the program isthat, , there's three key spiritual
principles, and today I try and applythose to my life on a daily basis.
the first one is honesty.
Um, the second one is open mindedness,and the third one is willingness.
(09:56):
And there's a number of otherspiritual principles that, , come,
come through the program as well.
You know, being patient, and, usingtolerance, and, acceptance,
humility is a big piece.
But, first of all, I've got to behonest with myself, um, and today
my honesty is that this is who I am.
(10:19):
This is, this is going to be a lifelongprocess and, you know, I'm not, I'm not
ashamed to admit that I'm a recoveringaddict today, you know, and by doing
that, maybe I can, , Encourage, , orsupport, , or give someone else hope
that may be struggling or dealing with asituation, um, and, you know, maybe give
(10:40):
them some encouragement along the way.
Track 1 - Michi J (10:42):
I like that.
Because what I find everything thatwe are recovering from, everyone
is recovering from something or amistake that as often as we forget.
Or don't just acknowledge how muchwe need help, how weak we are,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Mm hmm. (11:06):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (11:07):
that's pretty in my own experience.
I find that very dangerous.
So, and that's that lack of humility.
Am I on track here with that with you
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (11:18):
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Oh, absolutely.
You know, and, , the, the fellowship also,um, Focuses on having a higher power,
you know, , I have a higher power, , whomI choose to call God, , and it's only
through his unbelievable grace and mercy,, that I'm able to be where I am today.
(11:38):
I was in and out of jail, you know,over a dozen times, sent to prison.
, my addiction took me away from all thethings that I had cared about, you know,
my family, my children, a successfulcareer, you know, just relationships
in general, you know, I, I got to apoint where I had lost, The feeling to,
(11:59):
to really love or care about anyone oranything, and it got to a point of just,
I was living to use and using to live,you know, and, um, God saw fit to sit
me down and, I did two years in prison.
I got out, July 18th, 2023.
(12:20):
And my biggest prayer daily was to be ableto see my daughter graduate high school.
and, uh, God had answered thatprayer along with many others.
And I was granted, uh, ERP, whichis an early release program.
Um, I should have done more time.
Um, But, uh, I got out eight monthsearly after, uh, completing, uh, two
(12:47):
years and three different facilities.
Um, and I was home and I was able tosee my daughter, graduate high school.
And, , yeah, it was, it wasa huge blessing, you know?
Track 1 - Michi J (12:59):
So what would you say?
I forget the president's wife.
Was it Bush was Nancy Bush.
Forgive me if I got her name wrong.
And it was the beginningof the war on drugs.
And she had
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Oh, Nancy Reagan. (13:13):
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Track 1 - Michi J (13:15):
Reagan isn't Nancy
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Nancy Reget, (13:17):
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Track 1 - Michi J (13:18):
Okay.
What was what?
What did what did she say?
You know where I'm going, right?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Her program was the D. (13:22):
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A.
R.
E.
program.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:25):
And what did
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2 (13:25):
D.
A.
R.
E.
to keep kids off
her pro I believe her,um, Her program was the D.
A.
R.
E.
program.
D.
A.
R.
E.
Daring to keep kids off drugs.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:34):
Okay.
And what was her mom?
Just what?
It was just so she made
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Oh, just say no. (13:38):
undefined
Just say no.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:43):
Okay.
Thank you for cleaning that up for me.
Just
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yes, ma'am. (13:48):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (13:49):
no.
So what And you said you usedit and you couldn't stop and
she's saying, just say no.
What do you say to
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, I say easier said than done. (14:01):
undefined
You know, um, the, the literature,uh, through the fellowship talks
about, we call addiction adisease, , the disease of addiction.
And, our fellowship says that It'sa mental, physical, and spiritual
disease that we suffer from.
And the core of our disease,which is the spiritual part,
(14:24):
is our total self-centeredness.
So we get, we get to a a point where it'sjust like a number of other diseases.
They're obsessive and they're compulsive.
So, I mean, you, there were times, manytimes where, I did not want to use.
You know, I'm saying I was done.
I was fed up.
I had been, , I had done enough damage.
(14:46):
I had wreaked enough havoc.
But there's a point where you're consumed.
We call it being caught in the grip, youknow, and, an example that I can use is,
, I'm a parent, you know, I'm a father.
So if I'm going to walk my child acrossthe street, I'm gonna have a grip on
their hand or their arm, you know, soI can't, there's, they don't get hit by
(15:09):
a car or they don't walk in the street,you know, I'm going to hold on, hold
onto them firmly and tightly, you know,and that's kind of, um, the same comes
true when it comes to the disease ofaddiction, you know, we're caught in it.
It's got a firm hold on us.
And, I mean, you can have a sinceredesire to want to stop using,
(15:30):
But, uh, sheer willpower, youknow, will only last for so long.
Track 1 - Michi J (15:35):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And we call that, um, a worldview,um, cause they're not taking
in the spiritual concept.
And yeah, I feel the same way about that.
Just say no.
And , you brought that reallyclear and what you're saying
is a spiritual core to it.
(15:55):
So, and you talked about humility and
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yes, ma'am. (16:00):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (16:01):
so you can have that humility, which , you
show all the time by, when youintroduce yourself and just reminding
yourself to that you are vulnerable.
And you can't just say no,it's more to it than that.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: No, no, there's so much more to it. (16:23):
undefined
I mean, as long as there's been,uh, people on the earth, you know,
addiction has been around, you know,and, and addiction can come in many
different forms, whether it's TV,whether it's food, porn, sex, gambling,
drugs, sugar, alcohol, like work.
Some people are addictedto work, you know, money.
(16:46):
I mean, there can beso many different, um,
um, so many different areas inwhich the disease of addiction
can display itself, you know?
, So, um, I think that's areally, really good point.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:04):
I'm glad you brought all that up because everyone learn
from this because everyone is goingthrough this in some type of a way.
I mean, we can actually see itwhen every year when people do
a new year's resolution, right?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Sure. (17:21):
undefined
Absolutely.
I want to eat less.
I want to watch less TV.
I want to get off, uh, the tablet.
I want to, whatever it is.
Sure.
Absolutely.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:31):
Yeah, that's a good point.
A lot of people areaddicted to their phones.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Without a doubt. (17:36):
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Facebook, Instagram, you know, um,all those other platforms, you know,
they can consume us, you know, wherewe spend more time on these things
than we do, , in a relationship withGod, in a relationship with our family
or kids, um, or, or anything else.
And so it can just be areally, really big distraction.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:58):
All right.
And what we, one good way to tell whatit is you're addicted to is, I just
heard that this week in one of my Bibleclasses, Connor said, hi, Connor, if
you're listening, that you're The firstthing you do in the morning, what do
you, what are you impulsive to do?
(18:18):
What are you reaching for?
And that generally tellsyou what you're addicted to.
We, we also, we also see it onwhat you spend your money on.
We look at your, your bank account.
Where's most of your money going to?
And that can tell you as well,reveal what you're addicted to.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. (18:40):
undefined
I remember, hearing a message from Dr.
Charles Stanley, about the same, thevery same thing, you know, opening
your checkbook and seeing, you know,what you're spending your money on, you
know, where are you spending your time,what are the things that, um, Uh, that
you're participating in the most, youknow, a lot of times people wake up.
(19:02):
The first thing they do is havea coffee or have a cigarette
or, you know, look at the phone.
And, , I can remember, , alsohearing a message from Adrian Rogers,
, that really, uh, caught my ear.
He said, uh, before he goes tosleep at night, when he takes
his shoes off, he puts them on.
(19:22):
Laying underneath the bed so thatwhen he gets up in the morning.
He has no Option except to get onhis knees as soon as he gets up.
Yeah
Track 1 - Michi J (19:36):
And what he's doing is he's putting in place things to keep him
in step where normally we would do things.
And to put things in placeto keep us out of step and.
And we, or we're too close.
To borders and we don't have any.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Right. (19:58):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (19:59):
what, what are some of the borders you use?
What are some of the stepsyou take to keep you grounded?
I know for sure when you aresaying every time you introduce
yourself what else it's like.
I'm a recovering addict.
I believe that's one of the things you do.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Sure. (20:21):
undefined
Well, I really I've really been working on
prayer meditation
Track 1 - Michi J (20:32):
Mm
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: the way that I pray Not just praying (20:32):
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for myself or praying for things or toaccomplish things or receive things But
I've really learned how to pray Uh, moreand more consistently for other people.
Um, Not for myself.
Track 1 - Michi J (20:50):
I'm gonna break that down a little bit because I'm sorry to
interrupt you because so many peoplethink that When they hear that some people
are going to automatically get turnedoff and say, oh, this is just religious.
I'm not religious, but everybodyis religious in some way or form.
(21:10):
It's just what you do continuously.
You're that's that's your religion.
So, to clear that up, why,why do you pray and meditate?
What is it doing right then and there?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, um, for me, and I (21:26):
undefined
can only speak for myself.
Um, I know where I was, you know, andI know that, , surrender is another key
that we focus on, , at the fellowship,you know, , not having to fight anymore.
And today I consistently pray for God'swill to be done in my life instead of
(21:48):
me trying to take control over what'sgoing to happen or of certain situations.
But, um, The way that I was thinking,the way that I was acting and
living, , got me to where I was.
Jails, institutions, and,spiritual death, you know?
, And the only one who, , was ableto bring me through that, was God.
(22:10):
You know, so, he never left me.
I left him by walking away.
I was raised, you know, in church.
I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, K through 12.
I went to a Lutheranhigh school in Wauwatosa.
I went to WisconsinLutheran, graduated in 96.
So I always had faith, youknow, I went to college.
(22:31):
I kind of distanced myself from that.
Um, You know, really got stuck in,in the worldview of, you know, doing
what I wanted to do, have fun, youknow, enjoy yourself, you know.
Um, and then I got,
Track 1 - Michi J (22:46):
I like,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: well, yeah, (22:47):
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Track 1 - Michi J (22:48):
I was going to go back, sorry about that, that we,
where did you get your faith from?
Like, did you grow up in some sort of,um, Christian or, you know, spiritual
atmosphere to get you to go back to that?
(23:08):
So, and you made a good point.
The first you talked about.
, you're recovering at it.
You always introduce yourself that way.
It's bringing forth honesty,open mindedness, willingness
and humility right there.
First, you're, you're out of your,your self independence, which is
contrary, which is opposite of whatthe world and what, uh, dare would
(23:34):
say, just say no, because now you're
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: right. (23:37):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (23:38):
that you're not, you have to Not just look
at things about yourself becauseyou couldn't buy yourself.
she was saying, just say no.
So you couldn't do it by yourself.
So this
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: No, not at all. (23:51):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (23:53):
spiritual, which led you to the spiritual side, right?
Um, something out outside of yourself.
So you had to pray and meditate andyou're saying you had to spend time
with God because you're praying to who?
Who are you praying to?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: I was praying that, to my higher (24:13):
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power, who I choose to call God, youknow, , I believe that, , Jesus died
and, and, , rose on the third day,and, , he's forgiven me for my sins.
The Bible says that our sins are asfar as the east is from the west.
So, um, I'm very grateful that, uh,that today I can, uh, look back.
(24:36):
And, forgive myself, you know, forthe harm that I caused, uh, my family,
my friends, my employers, myself, youknow, um, and so today I choose to, to
give back, I, uh, I do service work.
I volunteer through narcotics anonymous,um, and a program we call H and I, which
(25:00):
is hospitals and institutions where wetake the, , and a message into, treatment
centers, hospitals, recovery centers.
Um, and we're currently working on gettingback into the DOC to introduce the NA
message,, to let other addicts know that,That we can stop using drugs, we can lose
(25:25):
the desire to use, and we can find a newway to live, you know, so we try and, uh,
go into these facilities and share ourexperience, our strength, and our hope,
. Track 1 - Michi J (25:37):
So the name of this program is what again?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Narcotics Anonymous is the fellowship (25:40):
undefined
that I belong to, and then we havea division Or a branch called H and
I, uh, and those that's abbreviatedhospitals and institutions.
So we go into,
Track 1 - Michi J (25:55):
Is it faith based?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: uh, it's not, it's the, the program is, (25:55):
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the spiritual program, not religious.
So, um, it, uh, it'snot a Christian program.
It isn't a faith based program.
It's a spiritual program.
That, um, is founded onspiritual principles.
So,
Track 1 - Michi J (26:15):
hmm.
And you choose, it's just, itgives a person to choose who they
look to as the spiritual power.
I mean, higher power, is that it?
That's the difference?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, the, the program, um, suggests (26:27):
undefined
that, um, we get a higher power and wecan choose, you know, the higher power
is up to us to choose, you know, theonly requirements are that it's loving
and caring and greater than ourselves.
So, um, it isn't inclusive.
It isn't exclusive, you know, um, but forme, I choose to call my higher power God,
(26:54):
you know, uh, and a number of people do.
Track 1 - Michi J (26:56):
yeah.
So with that in mind, did you go toany programs outside of this one that
did not include the spiritual core?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Um, I went to a treatment center (27:06):
undefined
in, um, Prescott, Arizona.
Um, it was a sober living facility,but it was not a faith based.
Track 1 - Michi J (27:21):
Do you find it a big difference?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Um, for me personally, I do. (27:25):
undefined
Because, um, I know that I was created.
I know that I have a creator, youknow, and I know that I have a purpose.
So today I'm trying to fulfill my purpose.
I've been able to look to others,, follow some directions, take some
(27:48):
suggestions, and by the grace of God,I've been able to find a new way to live.
So yesterday I actually celebrated33 months clean and sober.
Track 1 - Michi J (27:59):
Oh, wow.
Congratulations.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (28:01):
undefined
Thank you.
Track 1 - Michi J (28:03):
That's, that's a good accomplishment and great accomplishment.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, like I said, I'm 46 and, I've been (28:08):
undefined
in and out of treatments, , a few times.
Um, I was at a treatment center inMilwaukee on Capitol Drive, I was
there 89 days, my mom passed away.
Um, I didn't know how to dealwith that, you know, I didn't know
how to handle those feelings andemotions, , because she passed away
all of a sudden over a weekend.
(28:29):
Uh, and I relapsed, you know, andI went back out to the streets, for
a year and a half, two years, youknow, got arrested a number of times.
Um, I went to a sober living in, inWaukesha,, I was there 11 months, that
was the longest amount of sobriety I'dever had, you know, uh, as an adult, I
was 30 something, And I relapsed, lost myapartment, lost my car, lost everything.
(28:55):
And, um, you know, it took anothercouple of years of being homeless, living
on the streets, working the door atdifferent spots, you know, just doing
whatever I could do to, to get one more,you know, um, And God finally saw fit
to, , sit me down for a couple of years.
Um, finally got a prison sentence,you know, the judge really read me the
(29:19):
riot act and told me that I had wreakedhavoc all over Southeastern Wisconsin.
You know, um, I had been boostingfor a number of years and, you know,
stolen substantially from all over thestate on probation in four counties.
So, you know, I was, um, Imean, I was out of my mind.
I was out of control, you know,and nothing could stop me except,
(29:43):
um, God put me in a prison cell.
Track 1 - Michi J (29:47):
Audience.
I want you to know that.
It's so easy for us to just putthings aside and say, oh, this is just
this person's issue or problem andthat's not me and things like that.
But we are doing the samethings in our own addictions.
We relapse all the time.
(30:09):
We need to look at it that way.
So that's why I'm, saying this and to,get Rob to give us some more detail on
how he was able to overcome his addiction,because this is one of the stronger ones.
So if he can overcome thisaddiction and , what he's been
(30:31):
going through, that's going to help.
Everyone, so he did say admittingit, being humble about it and just
being honest and open minded likehe's doing here understanding is
a spiritual concept because it'snot like Nancy Reagan just say no.
(30:52):
, it's a grip.
So is he wants to say no, wewant to say no, everybody else
can, , we can attest to that.
But he had to spend time withGod because you say he set you
down, which is incarceration.
And a lot of people, we'll say that it'snot a good thing to incarcerate people.
And it's not, it can be good or bad.
(31:14):
It just depends.
But I think it gave you a time to.
sit back and pray and meditate.
Whereas you probably wouldn'thave that time to do that.
And you were forced to do itat this point where you were.
Able to listen to God, Goddoes that as a heavenly father.
He will sit you down and toget a chance to pour into you,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: you know, I completely (31:39):
undefined
agree, you know, um.
Because if I wasn't, uh, I mean, I wasn'tat a point where I could stop on my own,
you know, um, if I, I honestly believethat, um, if I didn't go to prison, if I
really didn't get that, uh, that level ofpunishment, it would, it would have just
(31:59):
been a matter of time, you know, before I,uh, continued doing what I had been doing.
So,
Track 1 - Michi J (32:08):
makes sense.
Which makes sense.
That's, that's going to be the naturalorder of things as people would
say that science and that is true.
So again, you.
You were being humble now, you'reactually being transparent, even
now, open minded, understandingthat you couldn't do it on your own.
(32:29):
And that's really not what theworld would say, and not what our
actions would say our behavior.
We, we actually try to live out,just say, no, meaning that I'm
just going to do it by myself.
I'm going to do it.
Go by myself.
I can do it when I want to and I cando it this way in there and it's no
(32:54):
where anybody can do it themselves.
So, I like how you are goinginto detail about that and how
you had to have a higher power.
Someone outside of yourself to help.
You pray and meditate and what aresome of the things you meditated on?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: well, um, the first thing is, just. (33:16):
undefined
Being able to surrender, for a long time.
Um, I was a fighter, you know, I hadthe mentality of, you know, not giving
up, not taking no for an answer, youknow, , never that's a sign of weakness.
(33:37):
You know, you're soft if you give up.
, and I think that's kind of, um, Howa lot of men view things today too.
I mean, even, for example, whenI was married, you know, uh,
asking for directions, you know,taking guidance, it's like, I'm
going to tell my wife at the time.
I know where we're going, youknow, and I'm driving in a circle
(33:59):
for 20 minutes, you know, causeI don't, I don't feel manly.
I don't feel like a man if Ihave to ask for help, and today
I realized that it takes more courageto ask for help to let someone
know that, you know, , you do havevulnerabilities, you know, and surrender
means I don't have to fight anymore.
(34:21):
that was a huge hurdle for me to overcome.
Um, because I never wanted to give up.
I never wanted to be soft.
And I wanted to portray an image of,of being tough and, macho, you know,
I mean, for a long time, I had a big,big ego, and there are still times today
where, you know, I deal with that as a,as a character defect, or a shortcoming,
(34:44):
um, but, praying, , and meditating,and asking God to remove some of these
things, you know, Being conceited,being arrogant, you know, thinking I
know it all, you know, not wanting toask for help, thinking that I'm smarter
or better looking or more successful,you know, pride is another one,
(35:06):
and I think that's why God tooksome of the gifts and the blessings
away from me that he had given me.
I had, um, I had owned three propertiesby the time I was 28, had made six
figures six times, you know, andfrom the world standpoint, I was very
successful, you know, at an ingroundswimming pool, nine feet deep with a
(35:30):
diving board, had a four car garage.
You know, I had a beautiful home inPewaukee, um, had a vacation home
in Georgia, six acres on a mountain,
Track 1 - Michi J (35:42):
Mm
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: um, paid a 1, 700 (35:43):
undefined
mortgage for seven years.
And we would go there for 10 days ayear over Easter, you know, with my
ex wife and our kids and my nieces.
, and I really had put God off to theside and not given him thanks, for,
, the gifts that he had given me and,and he had, uh, blessed me with.
(36:04):
And, and, and trusted me with, and I wastaking credit for a lot of these things
on my, on my own, like I did this, I havethis, I have these properties, I make this
much, I, I, I, me, me, me, my, my, my.
And slowly, yeah, and thenslowly he, he, he took them
away, you know, one at a time,
Track 1 - Michi J (36:25):
I like that you, said, success can be just
as much of a trap as being poor.
Yeah.
Both of those skills.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: without a doubt. (36:34):
undefined
Yeah, I mean, I can have a bigbank account and a nice 401k, um,
and be spiritually broken and bespiritually bankrupt, you know,
and what does all that give me?
You know, nothing, you know, cause sooneror later, , I can't take it with me.
(36:54):
And you realize that, you know, lifeis more than, uh, finances and 401ks,
you know, today, um, I'm happier thanI was making, you know, a half that
money, you know, because, um, I, Ilook at relationships as more valuable.
(37:21):
Then income today, you know, relationshipswith my children, um, relationships
with, , some of the men here atthe house, you know, being able to
encourage and support and give backand, uh, help other recovering addicts.
You know, to me, that's success.
If I can, if I can help someoneelse to, , find a new way to live.
(37:44):
And to change old behaviors and, and,and put down the drugs and alcohol.
And, you know, to me,that's more rewarding than.
You know, selling X amount of cars ormaking 10, 000 in a month, you know,
because at the end of the day, you know,that there's no, there's no joy in that,
(38:05):
you know, and you're back on that hamsterwheel of chasing and chasing and, and
my, for me, um, it, it, it, it distractedme from what my real focus was, what
my real purpose is, you know, that's togive back and to, and to help others.
Track 1 - Michi J (38:25):
I like that you pointed out relationships because we
need those relationships back you saidyou had a hard time forgiving yourself.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I did. (38:35):
undefined
I, um, I was at I was intreatment when my mom passed away.
Um, I was 89 days clean and sober.
And at that time, that was the longestamount of sobriety I'd ever had.
And she passed.
, I went to her funeral.
but as the next few years went on, Myaddiction grew, you know, and I was, I was
(38:56):
caught deeper and deeper in this, dilemma.
And, my father passed away while I wasincarcerated and I wasn't able to attend
his funeral because, I was in prison.
Track 1 - Michi J (39:09):
When you said, forgiving yourself
because I have, you know, I hearthat a lot and it makes sense.
So were you angry at yourself?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (39:23):
undefined
I was angry at myself.
I was, uh, disappointed at myself,um, for not just, you know, letting
me down, but letting my parents down,uh, letting my family down, letting my
children down, being absent, you know,missing, uh, school events and, uh, a
(39:44):
number of things that I had participatedin, you know, uh, in the years prior.
So, it's, it's like a friend of minetold me once, um, it's easier to, it's
easier to look out the window than itis to look in the mirror, you know, um,
and you know, it's so true, you know,but regarding the forgiveness piece,
(40:10):
you know, I have to realize that I amforgiven, you know, and in order for,
uh, I've got to accept that, you know,God has forgiven me for what I've done.
And I'm not honoring him.
If I'm not forgiving myself, you know,it's kind of, in my eyes, it's, it's
(40:31):
somewhat disrespectful to God that helaid down his life to forgive me for my
sins, for my wrongdoings, for my mess.
But it would be, selfish and selfcentered of me to not forgive myself,
to put myself in a greater regardthan, Then he is, you know, cause
(40:51):
he's already told me it's over.
It's done.
It's you're forgiven.
So, but for a long time now that was hardto do because I, I mean, I couldn't, I
couldn't apologize to my mom anymore.
I couldn't apologize to my dad.
He couldn't see me clean andsober, you know, before he passed.
So, um, so yeah, that was difficult.
(41:15):
That was a challenge.
Track 1 - Michi J (41:17):
this is very good.
I like everything you've brought upnow because relationships are the
most important like you said and alot of times we our relationships are
broken and our the main relationshipis with God, I would believe
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: right. (41:35):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (41:35):
and when we break off relationships, we lose that intimacy.
We tend to run away fromwe tend to hide and.
Run away from God insteadof running to him.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I, uh, I mean, I, I ran away from (41:51):
undefined
him for years, you know, I mean, andit's, it doesn't make sense when you
look back at it because here he is.
You know, blessed me with anumber of gifts, you know, um,
family, children, uh, at that timeproperties, uh, successful career,
(42:13):
you know, and I wasn't, I wasn't, um,
showing my gratitude, you know,I wasn't taking care of the
things that he entrusted me with.
You know, at the time when I shouldhave been, uh, closest to him, you know,
showing my appreciation and thankinghim for the many, many blessings
(42:34):
that he had given me, you know, um,I was consumed with me and myself
and, and taking credit for, uh, thethings that I, that I had been given.
I got them for myself when in allreality I had done nothing, you
know, he had provided them for me
Track 1 - Michi J (42:56):
Yeah, we do live in that delusion, at times, and it's a
lot of people still stuck there, I evengo in and out myself, I keep reminding
myself, and I like how you startedoff, like, I am a recovering addict.
Maybe we all should say that.
And so we can keep remindingourselves that it's not us.
(43:18):
And.
Everything, everything is related tothe higher power in him, allowing us
to be able to do the functions thatwe do, even the simplest of things.
And that keeps us in that keeps me andI'm hearing it in , your conversation
(43:38):
as well, that this relationshipwith, the higher power with God.
Because.
In our estimation, what we're seeing,he's the only way and that's what your
recovery has, done from you is get youright back to the nitty gritty and what's
really important and actually it's a,I call that really a, a good thing that
(44:00):
happened to you, so to speak, because.
It actually brought you into aright relationship and understanding
just how, just how weak you are.
Just how weak I am.
I've noticed myself.
, and that's, when you'rereally alive and really.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Amen. (44:19):
undefined
Yeah, um, one of the things ThatI've said for for the last three
years now is that God brought me
And N.
A.
has brought me back to God.
So, um, I'm, I'm very grateful for, forthe opportunity, for my freedom, for
(44:40):
my clean time, for the fellowship.
You know, , for HTR, you know,um, I had lost all three of
my homes, , in my addiction.
And, um, when I was coming to the end ofmy sentence, I, I didn't have anywhere
to go, you know, and, um, I had gottenin touch with, , my old financial
(45:01):
advisor and, He was perplexed to saythe least to find out where I was and I
had mentioned to him that I was wantingto pursue a faith based sober living
when I got released and He put me intouch With, , LT Austin and Bob Wolf,
(45:23):
who, , had just recently, the yearbefore started HTR hope to restoration.
It was a blessing that,, Godput that on my heart to call.
Dan Detloff, and, I got in touchwith, LT and Bob, and, they came and
picked me up at Black River Falls,three hours away, and, brought me to,
HTR, and I've been here ever since.
Track 1 - Michi J (45:46):
Wow, this is , a great comeback story and it's amazing what God
can do and take us at our lowest points.
So people in our audience, pleaseknow it's, it's never too late.
You just turn to him and and hewas sending you the right people
(46:07):
and the people will come get you
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Amen. (46:10):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (46:12):
So and you I believe because of your experience it helps you
be relatable to everyone because everyonehave some sort of addiction and Just
hearing your story and how you got out.
I like how you mentioned that you'remuch happier than when you were, you
(46:33):
had the money because we see peopleall the time to have a lot of money.
They're never satisfied.
, they always want more.
Even though they have ton of stuff,but , they're never satisfied.
,GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, yeah, addiction, doesn't
discriminate, , age, race, gender,sex, sexuality, creed, you know, , , it
(46:57):
doesn't matter, I mean, anyone,uh, anyone can, uh, can fall into
that grip, you know, at any time.
And like we talked onin a number of areas,
so today three things I really tryand do or stay away from, you know,
certain people, certain places andcertain things, you know, um, I try and
stay connected with, the fellowship,you know, , I try and give back.
(47:21):
I try and do servicework, here at the house.
We have a Bible study, you know, we'reconnected with, with so many different,
positive opportunities and relationships, success is, all about your determination,
you know, how bad you want somethingand if you're willing to put the work
in to get it, and one of the thingsthat I've, I've, I've constantly
(47:42):
prayed for too, is that God does notallow me to forget the pain and the
wreckage that I caused because I neverwant to go back, to that way of life.
I constantly want to remember, the thingsthat I went through, the things that
I put other people through, I want toremember the pain, you know, so it acts as
(48:03):
fuel for me to keep, my recovery first.
I thank you so much, Rob, for being here and talking
about recovery and how you actually aresuccessful at it and just giving us the
knowledge that you don't have to comefrom a poor background, you can come
(48:24):
from a very successful background and endup in this type of predicament because.
Anybody could be there.
So is there anything else youwant to say to the audience
before we wrap this up today.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: I just want to say thank you, MeTJ. (48:39):
undefined
I appreciate, , the opportunity, , toshare my story and, just keep God first,
you know, if you're struggling with asubstance, alcohol or drugs, you don't
have to use again, there's programsout there, there's people out there
that, will help and support you, , and,will help you with your recovery.
Track 1 - Michi J (49:00):
,thank you so much.
Thank you everyone for listening and mayyou have a week filled with blessings..
undefined
(00:01):
where, I did not want to use.
You know, I'm saying I was done.
I was fed up.
I had been, , I had done enough damage.
I had wreaked enough havoc.
But there's a point where you're consumed.
We call it being caught in thegrip, an example that I can use
is, , I'm a parent, I'm a father.
So if I'm going to walk my child acrossthe street, I'm gonna have a grip on
(00:26):
their hand or their arm, you know, so Ican't, there's, they don't get hit by a
car or they don't walk in the street, I'mgoing to hold on, hold onto them firmly
and tightly, and that's the same comestrue when it comes to the disease of
addiction, you know, we're caught in it.
(00:58):
Hello everyone.
And welcome to at prisoners partin podcast with me, your host Michi
J today, we're going to be talkingabout addictions and how to recover.
My guests today.
Is going to adequately describe.
an addiction as somethingthat has a grip on you.
(01:19):
And I want you to think.
Of an addiction as a wrestling match.
If you seen any before, youknow that there's two wrestlers.
Think of one.
As addiction itself.
And the other one as Anindividual trying to recover.
Now let's just say addiction is agold medalist and has gone undefeated.
(01:44):
Many many times.
and He is right nowholding down many people.
How do
Track 1 - Michi J (01:51):
we
beat addiction?
How do you recover?
If you seen those matches, you'veseen the struggling wrestler.
Trying to flip the personover or pin them down.
Nothing seems to work.
This is the same case with addiction.
It has a grip on a person and it is tight.
(02:13):
And it is.
Nearly impossible.
to recover.
So when you're looking at thosewrestlers, What do you see?
When a person.
Can't get out of the grip.
He relaxes and stops.
He'd stopped struggling and just taps out.
He taps the mat to signal to the ref.
(02:35):
That he's done and needshis help to stop the match.
Well, this is the sameprinciple you use to get out.
Of the grip of addiction and recover.
You need to tap out.
In today's show my guests will talkabout how he was in the grip of addiction
(02:56):
and how his recovery came about.
I want you to listen and learn.
How tapping outlooks.
Who is the official referee?
And how tapping out.
You really win that match.
Okay now to talk to us about.
Addictions and recovery.
(03:17):
Is Mr.
Robert Davis.
He is a Milwaukee native.
He has three children.
He's dabbled in real estate.
He's now a machine operator andhe's also a house manager for a
faith based sober living facility.
Rob is also a recovering addict.
(03:38):
And he has been quitesuccessful in recovering.
He's going to share withus how he's done that.
Now, please join me in welcoming Rob.
Hi, Rob.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Hello. (03:49):
undefined
. How you doing?
Track 1 - Michi J (03:51):
Hey, all right.
I'm doing good.
It's great to have you here, Rob.
And I'm just here to listen to youand have you tell us your story.
Could you tell us a littlebit more about yourself?
Tell us about Rob.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, thank you so much for (04:03):
undefined
giving me an opportunity.
, my name is Rob Davis.
I'm 46.
I was born and raised in Milwaukee.
I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, Lutheran high school.
, I had a passion for golf.
, I pursued a career in the golfbusiness, uh, I went to college to
become a head golf professional, and Iworked at Black Wolf Run and Whistling
(04:26):
Straights up in Cola, Wisconsin.
, unfortunately, I was involvedin a car accident, as a result
of, the beginning, , of an earlyaddiction to drugs and alcohol.
I came home, from college and I startedselling cars and, , three and a half
years in, I never, never completed.
(04:47):
My degree was a bachelor's inbusiness and marketing with an
emphasis in the golf industry.
I became very successful at an earlyage, making, uh, making good money, um,
developed a passion for real estate.
And after 15, almost 16 yearsin the car business, I was able
(05:09):
to, , acquire three properties, twoin Wisconsin and one in Georgia.
Track 1 - Michi J (05:15):
Wow.
I didn't even know all this.
And , you come from a two parent home
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (05:20):
undefined
Yeah.
I come from a two parent home.
I'm , I was the youngest out of three.
My parents were a little older, um,unfortunately, both of them have
passed, but ironically, my momand dad had the same birthday, same
month, same day, different years.
My dad was born in 36 and my momwas born in 44, , March 29th.
Track 1 - Michi J (05:41):
Wow.
Rob, you said , youdeveloped , an addiction.
How did you actuallyget introduced to this?
Do you know what led to this addiction?
, GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: that's, uh, that's a really good question. (05:53):
undefined
Growing up, , I was, I was prettymuch a square, you know, I didn't
really drink or party in high school.
Um, but once I got to college, you know,I started to experiment a little bit and,
, I kind of found the party scene and, , Ireally had a personality where, I like
to please people, you know, I like to makepeople laugh and, you know, um, Looking
(06:18):
back now, I kind of was just wearinga mask all the time, you know, trying
to impress other people and try and,entertain them or make them laugh or make
them think I was cool or tough and, andI was essentially just trying to fit in.
Track 1 - Michi J (06:31):
so do you know why you felt the need to please other people?
I'm just wondering, have you ever,sat down and thought about that.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, today, , I work a recovery (06:42):
undefined
program through Narcotics Anonymous.
I go to meetings, I have a sponsor.
I worked at 12 steps and, part of thatprogram and process is, , as you work
through the steps, you're, you're reallykind of peeling off layers of the onion
to uncover, um, some of those thingsthat you're asking about, you know,
(07:06):
like the, the why, you know, and as Icontinue to work through the program, I,
I'm learning more and more about myself.
You know, the, the more work that Ido and the more work that I put in.
Track 1 - Michi J (07:18):
So that's a work in progress.
So, yes.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Uh, it is, it really is. (07:21):
undefined
I mean, I came from a good upbringing.
I came from a good family.
I didn't, you know, um, it wasn'tmy environment that, that led
me to, to drugs and alcohol.
I like, I like to have fun.
You know, I never wanted toadmit that I was an addict.
In my mind, um, an addict was a junkiewho was shooting up heroin, you know,
(07:44):
I mean, I continued to tell myself,I just like to have a little fun.
I just like to party, you know.
, and as I've, , learned through theprogram, that, it's kind of hard
to, it's kind of hard to describe.
, Track 1 - Michi J (07:57):
you don't have to have the exact right words
and that's the beauty of it.
We can just, expressourselves we can just.
accept it's no judgment herebecause we all are recovering from
something and if we're honest withourselves, we have the same symptoms.
(08:17):
And that's what I like to talk abouthere is bringing us to light and
learning how to Heal from it and justforgiveness, forgiving ourselves,
allowing ourselves to forgive otherpeople because we're all the same.
We all have issues.
(08:38):
We all have things we needto just plainly recover from.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, no, I, I completely agree with you. (08:44):
undefined
You know, so today, , you know, I'm notashamed of the fact that, , that I went
through, uh, the things that I wentthrough and that, you know, I developed
an addiction and, um, now today I canadmit to the fact that, that, once
I started using, I couldn't stop.
(09:04):
You know, so, today when,whenever I introduce myself,
, that's how I introduce myself.
I'm, my name's Rob andI'm a recovering addict.
Well,
Track 1 - Michi J (09:14):
Yeah.
Some people may think, well, you're not.
Just a recovering addict, but why inyour estimation, do you need to say that?
Because I think it's awealth of information there.
So why do you need to say that?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: um, one of the things that I've (09:34):
undefined
learned, through the program isthat, , there's three key spiritual
principles, and today I try and applythose to my life on a daily basis.
the first one is honesty.
Um, the second one is open mindedness,and the third one is willingness.
(09:56):
And there's a number of otherspiritual principles that, , come,
come through the program as well.
You know, being patient, and, usingtolerance, and, acceptance,
humility is a big piece.
But, first of all, I've got to behonest with myself, um, and today
my honesty is that this is who I am.
(10:19):
This is, this is going to be a lifelongprocess and, you know, I'm not, I'm not
ashamed to admit that I'm a recoveringaddict today, you know, and by doing
that, maybe I can, , Encourage, , orsupport, , or give someone else hope
that may be struggling or dealing with asituation, um, and, you know, maybe give
(10:40):
them some encouragement along the way.
Track 1 - Michi J (10:42):
I like that.
Because what I find everything thatwe are recovering from, everyone
is recovering from something or amistake that as often as we forget.
Or don't just acknowledge how muchwe need help, how weak we are,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Mm hmm. (11:06):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (11:07):
that's pretty in my own experience.
I find that very dangerous.
So, and that's that lack of humility.
Am I on track here with that with you
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (11:18):
undefined
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and, , the, the fellowship also,um, Focuses on having a higher power,
you know, , I have a higher power, , whomI choose to call God, , and it's only
through his unbelievable grace and mercy,, that I'm able to be where I am today.
(11:38):
I was in and out of jail, you know,over a dozen times, sent to prison.
, my addiction took me away from all thethings that I had cared about, you know,
my family, my children, a successfulcareer, you know, just relationships
in general, you know, I, I got to apoint where I had lost, The feeling to,
(11:59):
to really love or care about anyone oranything, and it got to a point of just,
I was living to use and using to live,you know, and, um, God saw fit to sit
me down and, I did two years in prison.
I got out, July 18th, 2023.
(12:20):
And my biggest prayer daily was to be ableto see my daughter graduate high school.
and, uh, God had answered thatprayer along with many others.
And I was granted, uh, ERP, whichis an early release program.
Um, I should have done more time.
Um, But, uh, I got out eight monthsearly after, uh, completing, uh, two
(12:47):
years and three different facilities.
Um, and I was home and I was able tosee my daughter, graduate high school.
And, , yeah, it was, it wasa huge blessing, you know?
Track 1 - Michi J (12:59):
So what would you say?
I forget the president's wife.
Was it Bush was Nancy Bush.
Forgive me if I got her name wrong.
And it was the beginningof the war on drugs.
And she had
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Oh, Nancy Reagan. (13:13):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (13:15):
Reagan isn't Nancy
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Nancy Reget, (13:17):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (13:18):
Okay.
What was what?
What did what did she say?
You know where I'm going, right?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Her program was the D. (13:22):
undefined
A.
R.
E.
program.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:25):
And what did
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2 (13:25):
D.
A.
R.
E.
to keep kids off
her pro I believe her,um, Her program was the D.
A.
R.
E.
program.
D.
A.
R.
E.
Daring to keep kids off drugs.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:34):
Okay.
And what was her mom?
Just what?
It was just so she made
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Oh, just say no. (13:38):
undefined
Just say no.
Track 1 - Michi J (13:43):
Okay.
Thank you for cleaning that up for me.
Just
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yes, ma'am. (13:48):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (13:49):
no.
So what And you said you usedit and you couldn't stop and
she's saying, just say no.
What do you say to
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, I say easier said than done. (14:01):
undefined
You know, um, the, the literature,uh, through the fellowship talks
about, we call addiction adisease, , the disease of addiction.
And, our fellowship says that It'sa mental, physical, and spiritual
disease that we suffer from.
And the core of our disease,which is the spiritual part,
(14:24):
is our total self-centeredness.
So we get, we get to a a point where it'sjust like a number of other diseases.
They're obsessive and they're compulsive.
So, I mean, you, there were times, manytimes where, I did not want to use.
You know, I'm saying I was done.
I was fed up.
I had been, , I had done enough damage.
(14:46):
I had wreaked enough havoc.
But there's a point where you're consumed.
We call it being caught in the grip, youknow, and, an example that I can use is,
, I'm a parent, you know, I'm a father.
So if I'm going to walk my child acrossthe street, I'm gonna have a grip on
their hand or their arm, you know, soI can't, there's, they don't get hit by
(15:09):
a car or they don't walk in the street,you know, I'm going to hold on, hold
onto them firmly and tightly, you know,and that's kind of, um, the same comes
true when it comes to the disease ofaddiction, you know, we're caught in it.
It's got a firm hold on us.
And, I mean, you can have a sinceredesire to want to stop using,
(15:30):
But, uh, sheer willpower, youknow, will only last for so long.
Track 1 - Michi J (15:35):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And we call that, um, a worldview,um, cause they're not taking
in the spiritual concept.
And yeah, I feel the same way about that.
Just say no.
And , you brought that reallyclear and what you're saying
is a spiritual core to it.
(15:55):
So, and you talked about humility and
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yes, ma'am. (16:00):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (16:01):
so you can have that humility, which , you
show all the time by, when youintroduce yourself and just reminding
yourself to that you are vulnerable.
And you can't just say no,it's more to it than that.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: No, no, there's so much more to it. (16:23):
undefined
I mean, as long as there's been,uh, people on the earth, you know,
addiction has been around, you know,and, and addiction can come in many
different forms, whether it's TV,whether it's food, porn, sex, gambling,
drugs, sugar, alcohol, like work.
Some people are addictedto work, you know, money.
(16:46):
I mean, there can beso many different, um,
um, so many different areas inwhich the disease of addiction
can display itself, you know?
, So, um, I think that's areally, really good point.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:04):
I'm glad you brought all that up because everyone learn
from this because everyone is goingthrough this in some type of a way.
I mean, we can actually see itwhen every year when people do
a new year's resolution, right?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Sure. (17:21):
undefined
Absolutely.
I want to eat less.
I want to watch less TV.
I want to get off, uh, the tablet.
I want to, whatever it is.
Sure.
Absolutely.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:31):
Yeah, that's a good point.
A lot of people areaddicted to their phones.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Without a doubt. (17:36):
undefined
Facebook, Instagram, you know, um,all those other platforms, you know,
they can consume us, you know, wherewe spend more time on these things
than we do, , in a relationship withGod, in a relationship with our family
or kids, um, or, or anything else.
And so it can just be areally, really big distraction.
Track 1 - Michi J (17:58):
All right.
And what we, one good way to tell whatit is you're addicted to is, I just
heard that this week in one of my Bibleclasses, Connor said, hi, Connor, if
you're listening, that you're The firstthing you do in the morning, what do
you, what are you impulsive to do?
(18:18):
What are you reaching for?
And that generally tellsyou what you're addicted to.
We, we also, we also see it onwhat you spend your money on.
We look at your, your bank account.
Where's most of your money going to?
And that can tell you as well,reveal what you're addicted to.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. (18:40):
undefined
I remember, hearing a message from Dr.
Charles Stanley, about the same, thevery same thing, you know, opening
your checkbook and seeing, you know,what you're spending your money on, you
know, where are you spending your time,what are the things that, um, Uh, that
you're participating in the most, youknow, a lot of times people wake up.
(19:02):
The first thing they do is havea coffee or have a cigarette
or, you know, look at the phone.
And, , I can remember, , alsohearing a message from Adrian Rogers,
, that really, uh, caught my ear.
He said, uh, before he goes tosleep at night, when he takes
his shoes off, he puts them on.
(19:22):
Laying underneath the bed so thatwhen he gets up in the morning.
He has no Option except to get onhis knees as soon as he gets up.
Yeah
Track 1 - Michi J (19:36):
And what he's doing is he's putting in place things to keep him
in step where normally we would do things.
And to put things in placeto keep us out of step and.
And we, or we're too close.
To borders and we don't have any.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Right. (19:58):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (19:59):
what, what are some of the borders you use?
What are some of the stepsyou take to keep you grounded?
I know for sure when you aresaying every time you introduce
yourself what else it's like.
I'm a recovering addict.
I believe that's one of the things you do.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Sure. (20:21):
undefined
Well, I really I've really been working on
prayer meditation
Track 1 - Michi J (20:32):
Mm
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: the way that I pray Not just praying (20:32):
undefined
for myself or praying for things or toaccomplish things or receive things But
I've really learned how to pray Uh, moreand more consistently for other people.
Um, Not for myself.
Track 1 - Michi J (20:50):
I'm gonna break that down a little bit because I'm sorry to
interrupt you because so many peoplethink that When they hear that some people
are going to automatically get turnedoff and say, oh, this is just religious.
I'm not religious, but everybodyis religious in some way or form.
(21:10):
It's just what you do continuously.
You're that's that's your religion.
So, to clear that up, why,why do you pray and meditate?
What is it doing right then and there?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Well, um, for me, and I (21:26):
undefined
can only speak for myself.
Um, I know where I was, you know, andI know that, , surrender is another key
that we focus on, , at the fellowship,you know, , not having to fight anymore.
And today I consistently pray for God'swill to be done in my life instead of
(21:48):
me trying to take control over what'sgoing to happen or of certain situations.
But, um, The way that I was thinking,the way that I was acting and
living, , got me to where I was.
Jails, institutions, and,spiritual death, you know?
, And the only one who, , was ableto bring me through that, was God.
(22:10):
You know, so, he never left me.
I left him by walking away.
I was raised, you know, in church.
I went to a Lutheran gradeschool, K through 12.
I went to a Lutheranhigh school in Wauwatosa.
I went to WisconsinLutheran, graduated in 96.
So I always had faith, youknow, I went to college.
(22:31):
I kind of distanced myself from that.
Um, You know, really got stuck in,in the worldview of, you know, doing
what I wanted to do, have fun, youknow, enjoy yourself, you know.
Um, and then I got,
Track 1 - Michi J (22:46):
I like,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: well, yeah, (22:47):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (22:48):
I was going to go back, sorry about that, that we,
where did you get your faith from?
Like, did you grow up in some sort of,um, Christian or, you know, spiritual
atmosphere to get you to go back to that?
(23:08):
So, and you made a good point.
The first you talked about.
, you're recovering at it.
You always introduce yourself that way.
It's bringing forth honesty,open mindedness, willingness
and humility right there.
First, you're, you're out of your,your self independence, which is
contrary, which is opposite of whatthe world and what, uh, dare would
(23:34):
say, just say no, because now you're
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: right. (23:37):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (23:38):
that you're not, you have to Not just look
at things about yourself becauseyou couldn't buy yourself.
she was saying, just say no.
So you couldn't do it by yourself.
So this
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: No, not at all. (23:51):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (23:53):
spiritual, which led you to the spiritual side, right?
Um, something out outside of yourself.
So you had to pray and meditate andyou're saying you had to spend time
with God because you're praying to who?
Who are you praying to?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: I was praying that, to my higher (24:13):
undefined
power, who I choose to call God, youknow, , I believe that, , Jesus died
and, and, , rose on the third day,and, , he's forgiven me for my sins.
The Bible says that our sins are asfar as the east is from the west.
So, um, I'm very grateful that, uh,that today I can, uh, look back.
(24:36):
And, forgive myself, you know, forthe harm that I caused, uh, my family,
my friends, my employers, myself, youknow, um, and so today I choose to, to
give back, I, uh, I do service work.
I volunteer through narcotics anonymous,um, and a program we call H and I, which
(25:00):
is hospitals and institutions where wetake the, , and a message into, treatment
centers, hospitals, recovery centers.
Um, and we're currently working on gettingback into the DOC to introduce the NA
message,, to let other addicts know that,That we can stop using drugs, we can lose
(25:25):
the desire to use, and we can find a newway to live, you know, so we try and, uh,
go into these facilities and share ourexperience, our strength, and our hope,
. Track 1 - Michi J (25:37):
So the name of this program is what again?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Narcotics Anonymous is the fellowship (25:40):
undefined
that I belong to, and then we havea division Or a branch called H and
I, uh, and those that's abbreviatedhospitals and institutions.
So we go into,
Track 1 - Michi J (25:55):
Is it faith based?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: uh, it's not, it's the, the program is, (25:55):
undefined
the spiritual program, not religious.
So, um, it, uh, it'snot a Christian program.
It isn't a faith based program.
It's a spiritual program.
That, um, is founded onspiritual principles.
So,
Track 1 - Michi J (26:15):
hmm.
And you choose, it's just, itgives a person to choose who they
look to as the spiritual power.
I mean, higher power, is that it?
That's the difference?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, the, the program, um, suggests (26:27):
undefined
that, um, we get a higher power and wecan choose, you know, the higher power
is up to us to choose, you know, theonly requirements are that it's loving
and caring and greater than ourselves.
So, um, it isn't inclusive.
It isn't exclusive, you know, um, but forme, I choose to call my higher power God,
(26:54):
you know, uh, and a number of people do.
Track 1 - Michi J (26:56):
yeah.
So with that in mind, did you go toany programs outside of this one that
did not include the spiritual core?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Um, I went to a treatment center (27:06):
undefined
in, um, Prescott, Arizona.
Um, it was a sober living facility,but it was not a faith based.
Track 1 - Michi J (27:21):
Do you find it a big difference?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Um, for me personally, I do. (27:25):
undefined
Because, um, I know that I was created.
I know that I have a creator, youknow, and I know that I have a purpose.
So today I'm trying to fulfill my purpose.
I've been able to look to others,, follow some directions, take some
(27:48):
suggestions, and by the grace of God,I've been able to find a new way to live.
So yesterday I actually celebrated33 months clean and sober.
Track 1 - Michi J (27:59):
Oh, wow.
Congratulations.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (28:01):
undefined
Thank you.
Track 1 - Michi J (28:03):
That's, that's a good accomplishment and great accomplishment.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, like I said, I'm 46 and, I've been (28:08):
undefined
in and out of treatments, , a few times.
Um, I was at a treatment center inMilwaukee on Capitol Drive, I was
there 89 days, my mom passed away.
Um, I didn't know how to dealwith that, you know, I didn't know
how to handle those feelings andemotions, , because she passed away
all of a sudden over a weekend.
(28:29):
Uh, and I relapsed, you know, andI went back out to the streets, for
a year and a half, two years, youknow, got arrested a number of times.
Um, I went to a sober living in, inWaukesha,, I was there 11 months, that
was the longest amount of sobriety I'dever had, you know, uh, as an adult, I
was 30 something, And I relapsed, lost myapartment, lost my car, lost everything.
(28:55):
And, um, you know, it took anothercouple of years of being homeless, living
on the streets, working the door atdifferent spots, you know, just doing
whatever I could do to, to get one more,you know, um, And God finally saw fit
to, , sit me down for a couple of years.
Um, finally got a prison sentence,you know, the judge really read me the
(29:19):
riot act and told me that I had wreakedhavoc all over Southeastern Wisconsin.
You know, um, I had been boostingfor a number of years and, you know,
stolen substantially from all over thestate on probation in four counties.
So, you know, I was, um, Imean, I was out of my mind.
I was out of control, you know,and nothing could stop me except,
(29:43):
um, God put me in a prison cell.
Track 1 - Michi J (29:47):
Audience.
I want you to know that.
It's so easy for us to just putthings aside and say, oh, this is just
this person's issue or problem andthat's not me and things like that.
But we are doing the samethings in our own addictions.
We relapse all the time.
(30:09):
We need to look at it that way.
So that's why I'm, saying this and to,get Rob to give us some more detail on
how he was able to overcome his addiction,because this is one of the stronger ones.
So if he can overcome thisaddiction and , what he's been
(30:31):
going through, that's going to help.
Everyone, so he did say admittingit, being humble about it and just
being honest and open minded likehe's doing here understanding is
a spiritual concept because it'snot like Nancy Reagan just say no.
(30:52):
, it's a grip.
So is he wants to say no, wewant to say no, everybody else
can, , we can attest to that.
But he had to spend time withGod because you say he set you
down, which is incarceration.
And a lot of people, we'll say that it'snot a good thing to incarcerate people.
And it's not, it can be good or bad.
(31:14):
It just depends.
But I think it gave you a time to.
sit back and pray and meditate.
Whereas you probably wouldn'thave that time to do that.
And you were forced to do itat this point where you were.
Able to listen to God, Goddoes that as a heavenly father.
He will sit you down and toget a chance to pour into you,
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: you know, I completely (31:39):
undefined
agree, you know, um.
Because if I wasn't, uh, I mean, I wasn'tat a point where I could stop on my own,
you know, um, if I, I honestly believethat, um, if I didn't go to prison, if I
really didn't get that, uh, that level ofpunishment, it would, it would have just
(31:59):
been a matter of time, you know, before I,uh, continued doing what I had been doing.
So,
Track 1 - Michi J (32:08):
makes sense.
Which makes sense.
That's, that's going to be the naturalorder of things as people would
say that science and that is true.
So again, you.
You were being humble now, you'reactually being transparent, even
now, open minded, understandingthat you couldn't do it on your own.
(32:29):
And that's really not what theworld would say, and not what our
actions would say our behavior.
We, we actually try to live out,just say, no, meaning that I'm
just going to do it by myself.
I'm going to do it.
Go by myself.
I can do it when I want to and I cando it this way in there and it's no
(32:54):
where anybody can do it themselves.
So, I like how you are goinginto detail about that and how
you had to have a higher power.
Someone outside of yourself to help.
You pray and meditate and what aresome of the things you meditated on?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: well, um, the first thing is, just. (33:16):
undefined
Being able to surrender, for a long time.
Um, I was a fighter, you know, I hadthe mentality of, you know, not giving
up, not taking no for an answer, youknow, , never that's a sign of weakness.
(33:37):
You know, you're soft if you give up.
, and I think that's kind of, um, Howa lot of men view things today too.
I mean, even, for example, whenI was married, you know, uh,
asking for directions, you know,taking guidance, it's like, I'm
going to tell my wife at the time.
I know where we're going, youknow, and I'm driving in a circle
(33:59):
for 20 minutes, you know, causeI don't, I don't feel manly.
I don't feel like a man if Ihave to ask for help, and today
I realized that it takes more courageto ask for help to let someone
know that, you know, , you do havevulnerabilities, you know, and surrender
means I don't have to fight anymore.
(34:21):
that was a huge hurdle for me to overcome.
Um, because I never wanted to give up.
I never wanted to be soft.
And I wanted to portray an image of,of being tough and, macho, you know,
I mean, for a long time, I had a big,big ego, and there are still times today
where, you know, I deal with that as a,as a character defect, or a shortcoming,
(34:44):
um, but, praying, , and meditating,and asking God to remove some of these
things, you know, Being conceited,being arrogant, you know, thinking I
know it all, you know, not wanting toask for help, thinking that I'm smarter
or better looking or more successful,you know, pride is another one,
(35:06):
and I think that's why God tooksome of the gifts and the blessings
away from me that he had given me.
I had, um, I had owned three propertiesby the time I was 28, had made six
figures six times, you know, andfrom the world standpoint, I was very
successful, you know, at an ingroundswimming pool, nine feet deep with a
(35:30):
diving board, had a four car garage.
You know, I had a beautiful home inPewaukee, um, had a vacation home
in Georgia, six acres on a mountain,
Track 1 - Michi J (35:42):
Mm
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: um, paid a 1, 700 (35:43):
undefined
mortgage for seven years.
And we would go there for 10 days ayear over Easter, you know, with my
ex wife and our kids and my nieces.
, and I really had put God off to theside and not given him thanks, for,
, the gifts that he had given me and,and he had, uh, blessed me with.
(36:04):
And, and, and trusted me with, and I wastaking credit for a lot of these things
on my, on my own, like I did this, I havethis, I have these properties, I make this
much, I, I, I, me, me, me, my, my, my.
And slowly, yeah, and thenslowly he, he, he took them
away, you know, one at a time,
Track 1 - Michi J (36:25):
I like that you, said, success can be just
as much of a trap as being poor.
Yeah.
Both of those skills.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: without a doubt. (36:34):
undefined
Yeah, I mean, I can have a bigbank account and a nice 401k, um,
and be spiritually broken and bespiritually bankrupt, you know,
and what does all that give me?
You know, nothing, you know, cause sooneror later, , I can't take it with me.
(36:54):
And you realize that, you know, lifeis more than, uh, finances and 401ks,
you know, today, um, I'm happier thanI was making, you know, a half that
money, you know, because, um, I, Ilook at relationships as more valuable.
(37:21):
Then income today, you know, relationshipswith my children, um, relationships
with, , some of the men here atthe house, you know, being able to
encourage and support and give backand, uh, help other recovering addicts.
You know, to me, that's success.
If I can, if I can help someoneelse to, , find a new way to live.
(37:44):
And to change old behaviors and, and,and put down the drugs and alcohol.
And, you know, to me,that's more rewarding than.
You know, selling X amount of cars ormaking 10, 000 in a month, you know,
because at the end of the day, you know,that there's no, there's no joy in that,
(38:05):
you know, and you're back on that hamsterwheel of chasing and chasing and, and
my, for me, um, it, it, it, it distractedme from what my real focus was, what
my real purpose is, you know, that's togive back and to, and to help others.
Track 1 - Michi J (38:25):
I like that you pointed out relationships because we
need those relationships back you saidyou had a hard time forgiving yourself.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I did. (38:35):
undefined
I, um, I was at I was intreatment when my mom passed away.
Um, I was 89 days clean and sober.
And at that time, that was the longestamount of sobriety I'd ever had.
And she passed.
, I went to her funeral.
but as the next few years went on, Myaddiction grew, you know, and I was, I was
(38:56):
caught deeper and deeper in this, dilemma.
And, my father passed away while I wasincarcerated and I wasn't able to attend
his funeral because, I was in prison.
Track 1 - Michi J (39:09):
When you said, forgiving yourself
because I have, you know, I hearthat a lot and it makes sense.
So were you angry at yourself?
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah. (39:23):
undefined
I was angry at myself.
I was, uh, disappointed at myself,um, for not just, you know, letting
me down, but letting my parents down,uh, letting my family down, letting my
children down, being absent, you know,missing, uh, school events and, uh, a
(39:44):
number of things that I had participatedin, you know, uh, in the years prior.
So, it's, it's like a friend of minetold me once, um, it's easier to, it's
easier to look out the window than itis to look in the mirror, you know, um,
and you know, it's so true, you know,but regarding the forgiveness piece,
(40:10):
you know, I have to realize that I amforgiven, you know, and in order for,
uh, I've got to accept that, you know,God has forgiven me for what I've done.
And I'm not honoring him.
If I'm not forgiving myself, you know,it's kind of, in my eyes, it's, it's
(40:31):
somewhat disrespectful to God that helaid down his life to forgive me for my
sins, for my wrongdoings, for my mess.
But it would be, selfish and selfcentered of me to not forgive myself,
to put myself in a greater regardthan, Then he is, you know, cause
(40:51):
he's already told me it's over.
It's done.
It's you're forgiven.
So, but for a long time now that was hardto do because I, I mean, I couldn't, I
couldn't apologize to my mom anymore.
I couldn't apologize to my dad.
He couldn't see me clean andsober, you know, before he passed.
So, um, so yeah, that was difficult.
(41:15):
That was a challenge.
Track 1 - Michi J (41:17):
this is very good.
I like everything you've brought upnow because relationships are the
most important like you said and alot of times we our relationships are
broken and our the main relationshipis with God, I would believe
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: right. (41:35):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (41:35):
and when we break off relationships, we lose that intimacy.
We tend to run away fromwe tend to hide and.
Run away from God insteadof running to him.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Yeah, I, uh, I mean, I, I ran away from (41:51):
undefined
him for years, you know, I mean, andit's, it doesn't make sense when you
look back at it because here he is.
You know, blessed me with anumber of gifts, you know, um,
family, children, uh, at that timeproperties, uh, successful career,
(42:13):
you know, and I wasn't, I wasn't, um,
showing my gratitude, you know,I wasn't taking care of the
things that he entrusted me with.
You know, at the time when I shouldhave been, uh, closest to him, you know,
showing my appreciation and thankinghim for the many, many blessings
(42:34):
that he had given me, you know, um,I was consumed with me and myself
and, and taking credit for, uh, thethings that I, that I had been given.
I got them for myself when in allreality I had done nothing, you
know, he had provided them for me
Track 1 - Michi J (42:56):
Yeah, we do live in that delusion, at times, and it's a
lot of people still stuck there, I evengo in and out myself, I keep reminding
myself, and I like how you startedoff, like, I am a recovering addict.
Maybe we all should say that.
And so we can keep remindingourselves that it's not us.
(43:18):
And.
Everything, everything is related tothe higher power in him, allowing us
to be able to do the functions thatwe do, even the simplest of things.
And that keeps us in that keeps me andI'm hearing it in , your conversation
(43:38):
as well, that this relationshipwith, the higher power with God.
Because.
In our estimation, what we're seeing,he's the only way and that's what your
recovery has, done from you is get youright back to the nitty gritty and what's
really important and actually it's a,I call that really a, a good thing that
(44:00):
happened to you, so to speak, because.
It actually brought you into aright relationship and understanding
just how, just how weak you are.
Just how weak I am.
I've noticed myself.
, and that's, when you'rereally alive and really.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Amen. (44:19):
undefined
Yeah, um, one of the things ThatI've said for for the last three
years now is that God brought me
And N.
A.
has brought me back to God.
So, um, I'm, I'm very grateful for, forthe opportunity, for my freedom, for
(44:40):
my clean time, for the fellowship.
You know, , for HTR, you know,um, I had lost all three of
my homes, , in my addiction.
And, um, when I was coming to the end ofmy sentence, I, I didn't have anywhere
to go, you know, and, um, I had gottenin touch with, , my old financial
(45:01):
advisor and, He was perplexed to saythe least to find out where I was and I
had mentioned to him that I was wantingto pursue a faith based sober living
when I got released and He put me intouch With, , LT Austin and Bob Wolf,
(45:23):
who, , had just recently, the yearbefore started HTR hope to restoration.
It was a blessing that,, Godput that on my heart to call.
Dan Detloff, and, I got in touchwith, LT and Bob, and, they came and
picked me up at Black River Falls,three hours away, and, brought me to,
HTR, and I've been here ever since.
Track 1 - Michi J (45:46):
Wow, this is , a great comeback story and it's amazing what God
can do and take us at our lowest points.
So people in our audience, pleaseknow it's, it's never too late.
You just turn to him and and hewas sending you the right people
(46:07):
and the people will come get you
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: Amen. (46:10):
undefined
Track 1 - Michi J (46:12):
So and you I believe because of your experience it helps you
be relatable to everyone because everyonehave some sort of addiction and Just
hearing your story and how you got out.
I like how you mentioned that you'remuch happier than when you were, you
(46:33):
had the money because we see peopleall the time to have a lot of money.
They're never satisfied.
, they always want more.
Even though they have ton of stuff,but , they're never satisfied.
,GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: yeah, yeah, addiction, doesn't
discriminate, , age, race, gender,sex, sexuality, creed, you know, , , it
(46:57):
doesn't matter, I mean, anyone,uh, anyone can, uh, can fall into
that grip, you know, at any time.
And like we talked onin a number of areas,
so today three things I really tryand do or stay away from, you know,
certain people, certain places andcertain things, you know, um, I try and
stay connected with, the fellowship,you know, , I try and give back.
(47:21):
I try and do servicework, here at the house.
We have a Bible study, you know, we'reconnected with, with so many different,
positive opportunities and relationships, success is, all about your determination,
you know, how bad you want somethingand if you're willing to put the work
in to get it, and one of the thingsthat I've, I've, I've constantly
(47:42):
prayed for too, is that God does notallow me to forget the pain and the
wreckage that I caused because I neverwant to go back, to that way of life.
I constantly want to remember, the thingsthat I went through, the things that
I put other people through, I want toremember the pain, you know, so it acts as
(48:03):
fuel for me to keep, my recovery first.
I thank you so much, Rob, for being here and talking
about recovery and how you actually aresuccessful at it and just giving us the
knowledge that you don't have to comefrom a poor background, you can come
(48:24):
from a very successful background and endup in this type of predicament because.
Anybody could be there.
So is there anything else youwant to say to the audience
before we wrap this up today.
GMT20240917-160018_Recording_separate2: I just want to say thank you, MeTJ. (48:39):
undefined
I appreciate, , the opportunity, , toshare my story and, just keep God first,
you know, if you're struggling with asubstance, alcohol or drugs, you don't
have to use again, there's programsout there, there's people out there
that, will help and support you, , and,will help you with your recovery.
Track 1 - Michi J (49:00):
,thank you so much.
Thank you everyone for listening and mayyou have a week filled with blessings..
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