February 7, 2025 • 17 mins
The episode examines the implications of a recent hacking incident involving the Chinese AI company DeepSeek, which claims to outperform competitors on cost and performance. We discuss the risks associated with AI tools, the necessity for better governance, and the broader impacts of AI on cybersecurity and data privacy.
• DeepSeek's emergence as a significant player in AI
• Performance claims that challenge established tech firms
• Consequences of the recent hack on industry perceptions
• The dangers of unregulated AI usage in corporations
• Governance challenges surrounding AI adoption
• Personal experiences using AI-driven coding tools
• Future predictions on AI's role in security and privacy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All righty, then.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcomeback to another episode of
Privacy.
Please, cameron Ivey, herealongside Gabe Gumbs.
It's 2025.
We're already almost throughJanuary.
This is crazy.
One twelfth of the year down.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Twelfth of the year down.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Not a good way to count the years, but Twelve is
out of the months of the year,in case you were wondering.
I'm sure you knew that Maybe'sin case, just in case just think
one month down and we'rechecking our bingo cards.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
What have you had on your bingo cards so far for the
year?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
well, I definitely had ai on there, but, uh, I
don't think I had this story.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I think we had ai on there, I think we all had ai on
there, right, I think even thestudents say, like AI was, it
was the centerpiece, it was the.
Yeah, yeah, it's thecenterpiece of the bingo card.
It's the centerpiece of thebingo card, but this week we got
a new AI number called, and Icertainly didn't have this on my
bingo card.
So what do we got?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So a company called DeepSeek.
It's a Chinese AI company.
So a company called DeepSeek,it's a Chinese AI company.
They recently launched a R1large language model, so it
basically is OpenAI's competitorand they were recently hacked.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
They were recently hacked, which is just like one
of the many reasons they've beenin the news this week, right?
So the first one was theyannounced that they have better
performance, and not justannounced but like demonstrated
they had better performance andcould do it less expensively.
In fact, they published a bunchof papers on it, right, like
they could get betterperformance than chat GPT for
(01:36):
far less the cost, and that sentlarge sectors of the economy
kind of tumbling a bit right,like the stock markets and
futures around things like thechips needed to power this new
AI gold rush.
Folks like NVIDIA took a soliddip yesterday.
A bunch of tech folks took asolid dip yesterday as investors
(01:58):
were worried that like hey,you're telling me these guys can
do it better and faster andcheaper and faster and cheaper
and cheaper and cheaper, likeit's less filling and it tastes
great.
I thought we had the marketcourted on less filling and
tastes great.
Turns out they don't.
Turns out they don't.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's a significant number, though, so they're
claiming $5.6 million.
Compared to billions spent by acompany like NVIDIA, that's a
ridiculous order of magnitude todo 100.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right, that's not just like oh, we shaved 20%, 50%
, that's like we shaved hundredsof percents off of this cost.
That's a lot of zeros.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That's a lot of zeros .
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's a lot of zeros .
And if you were in the AIshovel selling business versus
the mining for AI gold business,like the Invitas of the world,
you were happily just massproducing as many shovels as you
could so that people could godig for AI gold.
And now all of a sudden you'rehearing that the price of gold
has tumbled.
No one might want your shovels.
(03:03):
Actually, a better analogy mightbe that these guys came along
and they've got a bulldozer.
You're out here with shovelsand they're like what I can make
?
A bulldozer for half the priceof your shovel.
That's not good, it's not goodif you're in the shovel business
, it's great if you're in thebulldozer business.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So, gabe, what does that mean?
Speaking of a company thatcomes in?
I mean, this is pretty typicalfor any new technology, right?
There's always someone thattries to come in and says they
can do it cheaper and better andfaster.
Yeah, so this is not anythingout of the norm in terms of this
is just new now because theywere hacked.
But do you do?
(03:37):
We know why they can do itcheaper?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So I don't personally know why, and I haven't seen
any what I call goodexplanations of it yet.
I'm kind of still diggingthrough that myself.
But for everyone else thatwants to dig in alongside, they
did publish a lot of informationaround how they do it, and so
I'm kind of going to go throughthat information firsthand
myself so I can get anunderstanding of it and then
(04:01):
meander out from there and seewhat others say.
But I am not certain is theanswer.
I'm not sure the information isout there though, so check it
out.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So, with a company like this coming in hot claiming
these things and then gettinghacked, what does that mean for
the industry right now?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, I think there's a significant privacy problem
with them getting hacked.
Llms are, as they suggest,large language models, and the
large part about them is theyalready have a lot of data that
they themselves have hoovered up, but what they also have is all
the information that peoplehave been putting into it right.
(04:39):
So you know there's been a lotof talk over the last 12, 24
months around you know, goodcorporate governance around your
employees using things likechat, gpt, because you don't
want your corporate secretsinside there.
Let's just assume that peopleare bad corporate citizens
because they are, and notintentionally, though most, like
99% of the times, it's usuallyout of a necessity.
(05:01):
That's generous.
That's generous, yeah, butnonetheless I'll give it to him.
I'll be generous.
Today.
Most of that, that naughtiness,is driven by a need to be
productive, and when tools likegpt come along that allow you to
be exponentially productive,it's really tempting to put all
that corporate governance asideand say, fuck it, I want the
(05:25):
help, I want the tool, I want todig for gold faster.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Don't we think that governance was on the bingo card
this year as well?
I mean it always is.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It is a good point.
I don't know that I hadgovernance explicitly on the
bingo card, with the exceptionof machine identity governance
which is just another fancy wayof saying.
like you know, there is a lot ofwork being currently done to
really solve for a lot of themachine identity problems that
computing currently has.
Right, so not just like humansand their passwords, but the
(05:57):
cloud in particular has a lot ofidentities.
Every system service, you nameit, and then they're so granular
and there's so many differentoptions, and then there's every
different platforms.
There's a huge problem there,and so, from a governance
standpoint, that certainly wason the bingo card.
From a human governancestandpoint yeah, that was always
there.
How do you effectively manageyour company's ability to keep
(06:21):
their employees productive withnew tools while not exposing
sensitive information?
And so probably don't have totell most of our audience this,
right, but you folks have seensome of these toolings show up
in the marketplace.
I think we've had a couple ofguests on who these were the
(06:41):
problems they were solving for,right, like they created
solutions to help main to to tobe corporate information from
from these types of things.
But getting hacked LLM, an LLMplatform, getting hacked is is
just problematic for those thatuse it.
Right, like you.
Yeah, you may have put more inthere than you know you should
have, and you.
(07:02):
You figured it's all good, like, screw it, I don't care, it's
just open AI.
They're just going to use it tostudy and make the LLM better.
Right, make the model better.
But what happens when they gethacked?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right, yeah, that's the human side of us thinking
whatever it's just they're notgoing to use it against me.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Right, right.
But what if they do?
What if the leopards eat myfish?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
yeah, just because you're a big cat doesn't mean
you're not gonna get eaten byanother big cat nature, catty,
cat world it's true.
I would say that makes moresense when you know big cats.
There's no like big cats woulddestroy big cats don't mess
around, even a little bit.
No no, I mean, they still playlike cats but they do.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They do.
Big dogs are just cows.
Big cats are murderouscreatures that can you milk big
dogs?
I mean, according to meet thefuckers, you can.
You can milk cats, milk cats.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Cats.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You can make cats.
Does it happen to you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Interesting.
That's great.
Yeah, it would be.
Any of our listeners that mayknow a little bit more about
this would love to hear from youand, if you know a lot about it
, want to come on the show,would love to talk more about it
on an episode, more about it onan episode, and maybe well, you
know, we're going to keep closewatch on this, how this
progresses.
It's obviously AI's top of mindfor 2025.
And this is definitelyinteresting what this is going
(08:31):
to do down the line.
Gabe, I know you were workingon something recently.
We'll switch gears unlessthere's anything else you wanted
to touch on.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I was working on some AI stuff myself the
intersection of AI andcybersecurity.
One of the things I've beendoing is trying to make myself
even more productive.
I spent almost all my career asan ethical hacker in different
fades, if you would, sosometimes that skill set was
largely as a defender, othertimes as a builder and for a
(09:02):
large number of years as just abreaker.
So I still enjoy breakingthings and I haven't kept up
with as much breaking as I usedto.
It's kind of one of thosebyproducts of moving into I
guess you could call it moremanagement type roles and less,
you know, just pure individualtribute roles, but it's the
thing I love near and dear.
And so I came across a platformthat a friend introduced me to
(09:25):
the other day.
I'm not going to shamelesslyplug it just because there's
tons like it and I don't want tobias anyone one way or the
other.
There's lots of really goodplatforms, but it's an AI, it's
an AI coding assistant platforms.
There's lots of them, lots ofthem.
There's some that, like Klein,they work at the command line
interface level, which is reallycool, so like they interface
with both your IDE and youreditor, and like a text editor
(09:50):
and and like your GBT models.
There's stuff like Copilot.
There's lots of ones.
There's tons of ones out therebut I was using one recently and
I was blown away by this one inparticular, at how good it was
at prototyping things that Iwanted to build.
And so, in particular, what I'vebeen working on is prototyping
(10:14):
some attack tools based on somenew theories that we've been
playing with over at Myotaspecifically actually, that
we've been playing with over atMyota specifically actually, and
so one of the things that is onthe bingo cards is that AI is
definitely going to make cyberattackers more adept.
In the last few weeks of myselfplaying with AI tools to create
better attack tools, I'm justamazed at what I've been able to
(10:36):
do in a short time, and I mightrelease some of these things.
I may just show them kind ofpublicly as proof of concepts.
I'm not super interested injust littering the sidewalk with
a bunch of rusty razor blades.
Really, yeah, ai has gottenthat good.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Could that be something that we did on the
show?
We could totally do that on oneof the episodes, yeah show it
on screen and kind of just gothrough it, and then we can have
our it's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's a great idea.
Yeah, okay.
Years ago, we were planningsome other privacy research.
This was right before COVID hit, and I was working on a project
that didn't finish.
That was collecting open sourcedata from around town and
trying to triangulate sensitivedata around it, but this is a
good follow on to some of thetooling that I started working
(11:31):
on then.
I mean, what I'm getting at,though, is just more in the AI
bingo topics.
Ai continues to.
Definitely it's not goinganywhere.
I don't think anyone's going toargue with that, but where it
shows up in our security andprivacy world, I think we're
going to be more and moresurprised by Its ability, and if
this can continue to be donecheaper and faster with things
like DeepSeek.
I mean, I don't know where theupper limits are, yet.
(11:56):
I've heard a lot of peoplealready try to put where they
think the ceiling is ongenerative AI.
I think they might be wrong.
I think they might be wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I'm not a betting man , but if I were to bet I would
definitely go with your gut onthat one.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I'm willing to bet that just based on the news
that Deep Seek announced yeah,we don't know what the actual
ceiling is yet.
I'm willing to bet.
We just don announced yeah, wedon't know what the actual
ceiling is yet.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I'm willing to bet.
We just don't.
No, and I don't even think weever will.
Then there's that.
Here's my analogy.
It's like the ocean we don'tknow everything no-transcript.
I mean, yeah, that also.
There's that too, the internetworks very much like that.
That works.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You pee in the ocean when you can't remove the pee.
The internet is very much thesame way.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's true.
Actually, the internet is likethe ocean.
Yes, yeah that's better.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
There are dark, dark depths to it that you should
avoid.
There's a couple of really coolplaygrounds where you can go
hang out with some cool folksand maybe sip on a rum and coke.
There's some lawlessness on thehigh seas.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
A lot of pirates just kind of sailing around doing
what they will.
Lots of people just I'm thecaptain now and there's a lot of
trash in it.
There's a lot of trash justfloating around.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Is that true and this could be my ignorance, but is
it true that some countries justdump their trash into their
oceans they don't have likelandfills and stuff?
I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Off the top of my head.
I mean, at least one countrycomes to mind off the top of my
head.
Can I guess it?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, Is it India?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It is Sorry India, sorry yeah, is it India?
It is Sorry India, Sorry yeahthat would make sense.
I don't know how widespread theproblem is, but I've seen some
problems reported.
Yeah, I wonder why that isInfrastructure Lack of yeah.
Yeah, it's a shame.
I mean there's a why is afterthat answer and there's another
(13:59):
why is after.
There's probably like sevenmore why is's?
Before you get to the realanswer.
But the surface answer isinfrastructure.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, that's for sure .
Well, to shift gears here.
We're recording this on PrivacyDay, so happy Privacy Day.
Happy Privacy Day, folks.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah and Privacy Week Looking out for your privacy.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Anything else we want to touch on.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No, I think we'll keep our eyes peeled on the
DeepSeek stuff as I make alittle progress on our own
little AI project.
We'll get into that a littlebit more.
We got a new domain we'relaunching, yeah, problem Lounge.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Some new looks, hopefully soon enough and some
new looks hopefully soon enoughand some new guests and lots of
new things on the horizon 2025onward and upward 2025.
Let's do it alright, we'll seeyou guys next week.
All righty, then.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcomeback to another episode of
Privacy.
Please, cameron Ivey, herealongside Gabe Gumbs.
It's 2025.
We're already almost throughJanuary.
This is crazy.
One twelfth of the year down.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Twelfth of the year down.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Not a good way to count the years, but Twelve is
out of the months of the year,in case you were wondering.
I'm sure you knew that Maybe'sin case, just in case just think
one month down and we'rechecking our bingo cards.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
What have you had on your bingo cards so far for the
year?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
well, I definitely had ai on there, but, uh, I
don't think I had this story.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I think we had ai on there, I think we all had ai on
there, right, I think even thestudents say, like AI was, it
was the centerpiece, it was the.
Yeah, yeah, it's thecenterpiece of the bingo card.
It's the centerpiece of thebingo card, but this week we got
a new AI number called, and Icertainly didn't have this on my
bingo card.
So what do we got?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So a company called DeepSeek.
It's a Chinese AI company.
So a company called DeepSeek,it's a Chinese AI company.
They recently launched a R1large language model, so it
basically is OpenAI's competitorand they were recently hacked.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
They were recently hacked, which is just like one
of the many reasons they've beenin the news this week, right?
So the first one was theyannounced that they have better
performance, and not justannounced but like demonstrated
they had better performance andcould do it less expensively.
In fact, they published a bunchof papers on it, right, like
they could get betterperformance than chat GPT for
(01:36):
far less the cost, and that sentlarge sectors of the economy
kind of tumbling a bit right,like the stock markets and
futures around things like thechips needed to power this new
AI gold rush.
Folks like NVIDIA took a soliddip yesterday.
A bunch of tech folks took asolid dip yesterday as investors
(01:58):
were worried that like hey,you're telling me these guys can
do it better and faster andcheaper and faster and cheaper
and cheaper and cheaper, likeit's less filling and it tastes
great.
I thought we had the marketcourted on less filling and
tastes great.
Turns out they don't.
Turns out they don't.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's a significant number, though, so they're
claiming $5.6 million.
Compared to billions spent by acompany like NVIDIA, that's a
ridiculous order of magnitude todo 100.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right, that's not just like oh, we shaved 20%, 50%
, that's like we shaved hundredsof percents off of this cost.
That's a lot of zeros.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
That's a lot of zeros .
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's a lot of zeros .
And if you were in the AIshovel selling business versus
the mining for AI gold business,like the Invitas of the world,
you were happily just massproducing as many shovels as you
could so that people could godig for AI gold.
And now all of a sudden you'rehearing that the price of gold
has tumbled.
No one might want your shovels.
(03:03):
Actually, a better analogy mightbe that these guys came along
and they've got a bulldozer.
You're out here with shovelsand they're like what I can make
?
A bulldozer for half the priceof your shovel.
That's not good, it's not goodif you're in the shovel business
, it's great if you're in thebulldozer business.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So, gabe, what does that mean?
Speaking of a company thatcomes in?
I mean, this is pretty typicalfor any new technology, right?
There's always someone thattries to come in and says they
can do it cheaper and better andfaster.
Yeah, so this is not anythingout of the norm in terms of this
is just new now because theywere hacked.
But do you do?
(03:37):
We know why they can do itcheaper?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So I don't personally know why, and I haven't seen
any what I call goodexplanations of it yet.
I'm kind of still diggingthrough that myself.
But for everyone else thatwants to dig in alongside, they
did publish a lot of informationaround how they do it, and so
I'm kind of going to go throughthat information firsthand
myself so I can get anunderstanding of it and then
(04:01):
meander out from there and seewhat others say.
But I am not certain is theanswer.
I'm not sure the information isout there though, so check it
out.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So, with a company like this coming in hot claiming
these things and then gettinghacked, what does that mean for
the industry right now?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, I think there's a significant privacy problem
with them getting hacked.
Llms are, as they suggest,large language models, and the
large part about them is theyalready have a lot of data that
they themselves have hoovered up, but what they also have is all
the information that peoplehave been putting into it right.
(04:39):
So you know there's been a lotof talk over the last 12, 24
months around you know, goodcorporate governance around your
employees using things likechat, gpt, because you don't
want your corporate secretsinside there.
Let's just assume that peopleare bad corporate citizens
because they are, and notintentionally, though most, like
99% of the times, it's usuallyout of a necessity.
(05:01):
That's generous.
That's generous, yeah, butnonetheless I'll give it to him.
I'll be generous.
Today.
Most of that, that naughtiness,is driven by a need to be
productive, and when tools likegpt come along that allow you to
be exponentially productive,it's really tempting to put all
that corporate governance asideand say, fuck it, I want the
(05:25):
help, I want the tool, I want todig for gold faster.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Don't we think that governance was on the bingo card
this year as well?
I mean it always is.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It is a good point.
I don't know that I hadgovernance explicitly on the
bingo card, with the exceptionof machine identity governance
which is just another fancy wayof saying.
like you know, there is a lot ofwork being currently done to
really solve for a lot of themachine identity problems that
computing currently has.
Right, so not just like humansand their passwords, but the
(05:57):
cloud in particular has a lot ofidentities.
Every system service, you nameit, and then they're so granular
and there's so many differentoptions, and then there's every
different platforms.
There's a huge problem there,and so, from a governance
standpoint, that certainly wason the bingo card.
From a human governancestandpoint yeah, that was always
there.
How do you effectively manageyour company's ability to keep
(06:21):
their employees productive withnew tools while not exposing
sensitive information?
And so probably don't have totell most of our audience this,
right, but you folks have seensome of these toolings show up
in the marketplace.
I think we've had a couple ofguests on who these were the
(06:41):
problems they were solving for,right, like they created
solutions to help main to to tobe corporate information from
from these types of things.
But getting hacked LLM, an LLMplatform, getting hacked is is
just problematic for those thatuse it.
Right, like you.
Yeah, you may have put more inthere than you know you should
have, and you.
(07:02):
You figured it's all good, like, screw it, I don't care, it's
just open AI.
They're just going to use it tostudy and make the LLM better.
Right, make the model better.
But what happens when they gethacked?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right, yeah, that's the human side of us thinking
whatever it's just they're notgoing to use it against me.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Right, right.
But what if they do?
What if the leopards eat myfish?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
yeah, just because you're a big cat doesn't mean
you're not gonna get eaten byanother big cat nature, catty,
cat world it's true.
I would say that makes moresense when you know big cats.
There's no like big cats woulddestroy big cats don't mess
around, even a little bit.
No no, I mean, they still playlike cats but they do.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
They do.
Big dogs are just cows.
Big cats are murderouscreatures that can you milk big
dogs?
I mean, according to meet thefuckers, you can.
You can milk cats, milk cats.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Cats.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You can make cats.
Does it happen to you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Interesting.
That's great.
Yeah, it would be.
Any of our listeners that mayknow a little bit more about
this would love to hear from youand, if you know a lot about it
, want to come on the show,would love to talk more about it
on an episode, more about it onan episode, and maybe well, you
know, we're going to keep closewatch on this, how this
progresses.
It's obviously AI's top of mindfor 2025.
And this is definitelyinteresting what this is going
(08:31):
to do down the line.
Gabe, I know you were workingon something recently.
We'll switch gears unlessthere's anything else you wanted
to touch on.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I was working on some AI stuff myself the
intersection of AI andcybersecurity.
One of the things I've beendoing is trying to make myself
even more productive.
I spent almost all my career asan ethical hacker in different
fades, if you would, sosometimes that skill set was
largely as a defender, othertimes as a builder and for a
(09:02):
large number of years as just abreaker.
So I still enjoy breakingthings and I haven't kept up
with as much breaking as I usedto.
It's kind of one of thosebyproducts of moving into I
guess you could call it moremanagement type roles and less,
you know, just pure individualtribute roles, but it's the
thing I love near and dear.
And so I came across a platformthat a friend introduced me to
(09:25):
the other day.
I'm not going to shamelesslyplug it just because there's
tons like it and I don't want tobias anyone one way or the
other.
There's lots of really goodplatforms, but it's an AI, it's
an AI coding assistant platforms.
There's lots of them, lots ofthem.
There's some that, like Klein,they work at the command line
interface level, which is reallycool, so like they interface
with both your IDE and youreditor, and like a text editor
(09:50):
and and like your GBT models.
There's stuff like Copilot.
There's lots of ones.
There's tons of ones out therebut I was using one recently and
I was blown away by this one inparticular, at how good it was
at prototyping things that Iwanted to build.
And so, in particular, what I'vebeen working on is prototyping
(10:14):
some attack tools based on somenew theories that we've been
playing with over at Myotaspecifically actually, that
we've been playing with over atMyota specifically actually, and
so one of the things that is onthe bingo cards is that AI is
definitely going to make cyberattackers more adept.
In the last few weeks of myselfplaying with AI tools to create
better attack tools, I'm justamazed at what I've been able to
(10:36):
do in a short time, and I mightrelease some of these things.
I may just show them kind ofpublicly as proof of concepts.
I'm not super interested injust littering the sidewalk with
a bunch of rusty razor blades.
Really, yeah, ai has gottenthat good.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Could that be something that we did on the
show?
We could totally do that on oneof the episodes, yeah show it
on screen and kind of just gothrough it, and then we can have
our it's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's a great idea.
Yeah, okay.
Years ago, we were planningsome other privacy research.
This was right before COVID hit, and I was working on a project
that didn't finish.
That was collecting open sourcedata from around town and
trying to triangulate sensitivedata around it, but this is a
good follow on to some of thetooling that I started working
(11:31):
on then.
I mean, what I'm getting at,though, is just more in the AI
bingo topics.
Ai continues to.
Definitely it's not goinganywhere.
I don't think anyone's going toargue with that, but where it
shows up in our security andprivacy world, I think we're
going to be more and moresurprised by Its ability, and if
this can continue to be donecheaper and faster with things
like DeepSeek.
I mean, I don't know where theupper limits are, yet.
(11:56):
I've heard a lot of peoplealready try to put where they
think the ceiling is ongenerative AI.
I think they might be wrong.
I think they might be wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I'm not a betting man , but if I were to bet I would
definitely go with your gut onthat one.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I'm willing to bet that just based on the news
that Deep Seek announced yeah,we don't know what the actual
ceiling is yet.
I'm willing to bet.
We just don announced yeah, wedon't know what the actual
ceiling is yet.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I'm willing to bet.
We just don't.
No, and I don't even think weever will.
Then there's that.
Here's my analogy.
It's like the ocean we don'tknow everything no-transcript.
I mean, yeah, that also.
There's that too, the internetworks very much like that.
That works.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You pee in the ocean when you can't remove the pee.
The internet is very much thesame way.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's true.
Actually, the internet is likethe ocean.
Yes, yeah that's better.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
There are dark, dark depths to it that you should
avoid.
There's a couple of really coolplaygrounds where you can go
hang out with some cool folksand maybe sip on a rum and coke.
There's some lawlessness on thehigh seas.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
A lot of pirates just kind of sailing around doing
what they will.
Lots of people just I'm thecaptain now and there's a lot of
trash in it.
There's a lot of trash justfloating around.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Is that true and this could be my ignorance, but is
it true that some countries justdump their trash into their
oceans they don't have likelandfills and stuff?
I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Off the top of my head.
I mean, at least one countrycomes to mind off the top of my
head.
Can I guess it?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, Is it India?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
It is Sorry India, sorry yeah, is it India?
It is Sorry India, Sorry yeahthat would make sense.
I don't know how widespread theproblem is, but I've seen some
problems reported.
Yeah, I wonder why that isInfrastructure Lack of yeah.
Yeah, it's a shame.
I mean there's a why is afterthat answer and there's another
(13:59):
why is after.
There's probably like sevenmore why is's?
Before you get to the realanswer.
But the surface answer isinfrastructure.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, that's for sure .
Well, to shift gears here.
We're recording this on PrivacyDay, so happy Privacy Day.
Happy Privacy Day, folks.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah and Privacy Week Looking out for your privacy.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Anything else we want to touch on.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No, I think we'll keep our eyes peeled on the
DeepSeek stuff as I make alittle progress on our own
little AI project.
We'll get into that a littlebit more.
We got a new domain we'relaunching, yeah, problem Lounge.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Some new looks, hopefully soon enough and some
new looks hopefully soon enoughand some new guests and lots of
new things on the horizon 2025onward and upward 2025.
Let's do it alright, we'll seeyou guys next week.
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