Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Last Tuesday
morning, you probably woke up,
you checked your phone, youscrolled through some news,
social media, like somepictures.
Later, you picked up somegroceries.
For some reason you completelyskipped.
You might have seen an ad forsomething you were just talking
(00:27):
about.
Just normal life, right?
But while you were living it,invisible hands were at work.
As you swiped your loyalty card,information about your purchases
was being recorded.
As you browsed online, cookiestracked your clicks.
That free app you downloaded, itnoted your location.
(00:50):
And every single one of thosedigital breadcrumbs, those
seemingly innocent actions,wasn't just stored by the
company you interacted with.
It was aggregated.
It was categorized.
It was sold.
Sold by companies you've neverheard of.
(01:12):
Companies with names like Axiom,Oracle, Epsilon, or Xperian.
These are data brokers.
And they are quietly building aprofile of you that is so
detailed, so intimate.
It knows more about you and yourlife than your closest friends.
(01:36):
They know your age, youraddress, your income.
They know your marital status,how many kids you have, and what
kind of car you drive.
They know your healthconditions, your political
donations, and even yourfavorite hobbies.
They know if you're strugglingfinancially, if you're looking
for a new job.
They know you.
(01:57):
And they're selling thatknowledge for profit every
single second of every singleday.
Today on Privacy Please, weexpose the invisible industry
built on buying and selling yourpersonal life.
We're pulling back the curtainon data brokers.
(02:32):
I am your host, Cameron Ivey.
And before we dive in, a quickreminder listen, we're building
a community dedicated tonavigating these complex digital
issues, and we'd love for you tobe a part of it.
If you're listening to this uhon a podcast app or you want to
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(02:55):
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And uh let's get into it.
(03:18):
We imagined invisible handscollecting your data.
What we were describing is thevery real multi-billion dollar
business of data brokers.
So let's start here first.
What exactly is a data broker?
Maybe you've heard that term,maybe you're familiar with it,
(03:40):
but in simple terms, they arecompanies that collect vast
amounts of information aboutindividuals from countless
sources, then aggregate,analyze, and package that data
into profiles, which they thensell to other organizations.
They don't typically interactdirectly with you, the consumer,
they operate in the shadows,buying and selling your digital
(04:04):
self.
This isn't about Google knowingyour search history or Facebook
knowing your likes.
While those companies collecttheir own user data, data
brokers are a distinct and farmore pervasive layer of the
surveillance economy.
They are the middleman, theaggregators, the information
(04:24):
wholesalers.
And where do they get thisinformation?
Almost everywhere.
It's a staggering list,actually.
Let's go through it.
Public records, birthcertificates, marriage licenses,
property records, professionallicenses, voter registration
files, court documents.
This is all publicly accessibledata that they collect in the
(04:46):
masses.
Commercial sources, loyaltycards from grocery stores,
purchase history from onlineretailers, warranty
registrations, magazinesubscriptions, change of address
forms.
Every time you buy something,whether online or offline, that
data can be vacuumed up.
Online activity, cookies fromwebsites, location data from
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apps, social media activity, IPaddresses, browsing history,
everything you do online leavesa trace.
Other data brokers, yes, theyeven buy data from each other,
creating an even morecomprehensive and granular
picture of our lives.
They then use sophisticatedalgorithms to combine all these
(05:31):
desperate pieces of information,creating incredibly detailed
profiles.
And these profiles can includethousands of attributes about a
single person.
They're not just guessing if youown a pet, they might know the
breed, its name, and where youbuy its food from.
And who are they selling thisto?
(05:51):
The list is extensive.
Uh, let's go through it.
Advertisers and marketers totarget you with hyper-specific
ads for products and servicesthey believe you're most likely
to buy.
Financial institutions forcredit scoring, fraud detection,
and determining loaneligibility.
Insurance companies to assessrisk when setting premiums for
(06:13):
life, health, and autoinsurance, employers for
background checks, jobapplications, political
campaigns to identify potentialvoters and tailor messaging, law
enforcement, sometimes legally,sometimes through less formal
channels to aid ininvestigations.
The sheer scale of this industryis mind-boggling.
(06:36):
Some of the largest data brokershold information on billions of
consumers globally, withhundreds of millions in the US
alone.
We're talking about petabytes ofinformation, all pointing back
to you.
The chilling part is that thisentire ecosystem operates
largely in the shadows, oftenwith minimal regulation.
(06:59):
You never agreed to be a part ofthis market, and yet your
personal information is its mostvaluable commodity.
So, if they know so much aboutus, who are these companies and
why haven't we heard about anyof them?
And what is the real worldimpact of this invisible trade?
(07:20):
That's coming up next.
Before the break, we outlinedwhat data brokers are and the
sheer volume of information theycollect.
Now, let's talk about the impactof this invisible trade.
(07:44):
What happens when yourmeticulously compiled digital
profile is put to use?
The consequences range from themerely annoying to genuinely
alarming.
On the annoying end, you havehyper-targeted advertising.
This is what most people notice.
You search for something onceand suddenly ads for it are
(08:06):
everywhere.
This is often thanks to databrokers refining your profile so
advertisers know exactly how toreach you.
It feels intrusive because itis, and it seems almost instant.
But it gets much moreconcerning.
Data brokers don't just selldata to marketers, they sell it
to anyone who pays.
(08:28):
You want the info?
Give me the money.
This includes scammers,fraudsters, and even potentially
malicious actors who use thesedetailed profiles for social
engineering.
Think about it.
A scammer who knows your age,your financial situation, what
charities you donate to, and ifyou've recently bought a new car
(08:49):
has a massive advantage incrafting a believable phishing
attempt.
Even more alarming is thepotential for discrimination and
exploitation.
Imagine a data broker compiles avulnerability score for you.
This score might be based onfactors like your income, your
credit history, yourneighborhood, or even the types
(09:10):
of websites you visit.
That score then can be sold tocompanies that might use it to
deny you a loan, charge you ahigher insurance premium, or
target you with predatoryoffers, all without you even
knowing why.
There have been documented casesof data brokers creating lists
like seniors with Alzheimer's orindividuals with specific health
(09:33):
conditions, lists that could beinvaluable to unscrupulous
companies looking to prey on thevulnerable.
This isn't just theory, it's apractice that's drawn heavy
criticism and some legalchallenges.
And let's not forget thepolitical implications here.
Data brokers play a massive rolein modern political campaigns,
(09:56):
building profiles that canpredict your voting behavior,
identify your deepest anxieties,and target you with highly
personalized, often emotionallymanipulative political ads.
This can contribute topolarization and undermine
democratic processes, all fueledby your unseen data.
(10:17):
So if these companies are sopervasive and their impact is so
significant, why do they operatewith such little oversight?
Why haven't we stopped them?
And that brings us to the thornyissue of regulation, or the lack
thereof.
(10:46):
Okay, so we've seen the reachand impact of data brokers.
But the biggest questionremains: how are they allowed to
do this?
The simple answer is that theUnited States currently has no
single comprehensive federal lawspecifically regulating data
brokers.
Our legal framework is apatchwork mostly based on
(11:06):
industry-specific laws.
For example, if a data broker ishandling financial information,
they might fall under the FairCredit Reporting Act.
If they're dealing with healthinformation, HIPAA might be
applied.
But for the vast majority ofpersonal data they collect, your
shopping habits, your locationdata, your interest, your
(11:26):
predicted behaviors, there'svery little federal oversight.
And that's the biggest problem.
This means that companies cancollect, aggregate, and sell
your data without your explicitconsent, and often without even
your knowledge.
Unlike Europe's GDPR orCalifornia's CCPA, which give
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consumers broad rights overtheir data, most Americans have
minimal legal recourse to seewhat data brokers hold on them,
correct it, or demand deletion.
There's a fundamental disconnecthere.
Most people believe that theirpersonal information should be
private by default.
Data brokers operate on theprinciple that if data isn't
(12:10):
explicitly protected by aspecific law, it's fair game.
The industry itself argues thatthey provide a valuable service
for a functioning economy.
They help businesses findcustomers and prevent fraud and
even help law enforcement trackdown criminals.
They say they are just usingpublicly available information
(12:33):
or data collected with yourconsent, often buried deep in
the terms and condition nobodyreads.
And I can promise you, 99% ofthe people do not read that.
Or most of them, unless you workin law, most of the time.
But critics, including consumeradvocacy groups and privacy
(12:54):
experts, they argue that thisargument is a fig leaf.
They point to the sheer volumeand intimacy of the data, the
lack of transparency, and thepotential for misuse.
They contend that thisunregulated market creates a
massive vulnerability for everysingle individual.
(13:14):
The tide, however, may be slowlyturning.
States like California,Colorado, Utah, and Virginia
have passed their owncomprehensive privacy laws, I
think Minnesota as well,including the right to know
what's collected and to requestdeletion.
There's also a growingbipartisan discussion in
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Washington, D.C.
about the need for a nationalprivacy law.
But for now, the data brokerindustry largely remains an
invisible empire built on theinvisible trade of your personal
life.
So what can you do about it?
Can you really take back controlof your digital self?
(14:05):
The data broker industry canfeel like an insurmountable
force, a vast, invisible networkcollecting and profiting from
every single aspect of yourlife.
But you're not entirelypowerless here.
While there is no magic bullet,there are concrete steps you can
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take to reclaim some of yourprivacy.
Let's talk about those realquick.
First, the most direct approachis to make do not sell my
personal information requests.
If you live in a state with acomprehensive privacy law like
California's CCPA, for example,you have the legal right to tell
companies, including databrokers, not to sell your data.
(14:49):
Many data brokers now havespecific pages on their websites
for these requests, thoughfinding them can be like a
digital scavenger hunt, ofcourse.
Look for privacy requests ordata subject access requests, or
do not sell my info links.
It's time consuming, but it doeswork.
(15:10):
Second, consider using dataremoval services.
These are paid services thatspecialize in finding your
information on data broker sitesand submitting removal requests
on your behalf.
They act as your proxy, savingyou hours of effort, but be sure
to research reputable servicesas quality can vary.
(15:33):
Third, practice good digitalhygiene.
And we've talked about this wayin the past on PrivacyPlease.
I mean, I think that was part ofour first episode five, six
years ago.
So review app permissions.
Be judicious about which appsyou download and what
permissions you grant them,especially location and
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contacts.
Limit social media sharing, bemindful of the personal
information you share publicly.
What you post can become fodderfor data brokers.
Use strong privacy settings,regularly review the privacy
settings on your social mediaaccounts, web browsers, and
email services.
Another one is opt-out ofmarketing.
(16:15):
Wherever possible, opt out ofdirect mail, telemarketing, and
email marketing lists.
This can sometimes disrupt theflow of your data.
And finally, embrace the powerof skepticism.
Be skeptical, people.
Question every free service,every app, every loyalty
program.
Ask yourself, if I'm not payingfor this product, am I the
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product?
Understanding that your data isvaluable is the first step to
protecting it.
The fight against data brokersis an ongoing battle for our
digital for our digital lives.
It requires vigilance, a bit ofeffort, and a constant awareness
of the invisible trade happeningall around us.
(17:02):
By taking these steps, you canstart to draw a clearer line
around your personal data andreclaim your privacy.
And with that, we have come tothe end of our episode.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank youso much for tuning in.
I hope that you enjoyed thisepisode.
I hope you learned something.
If you have questions, feel freeto reach out.
(17:24):
Um the support for for coming onthe show is always I'm so
grateful for it.
And I hope that you're enjoyingthese types of episodes, and uh
we'll just keep doing them.
Different things all around.
If you haven't seen the newwebsite, check it
out.problemlounge.com.
We have new shows coming outsoon.
So just be on the lookout.
And thank you so much forsupporting Privacy Please and
(17:46):
the Problem Lounge Network.
We'll see you guys very soon.
Over and out.