June 23, 2025 • 38 mins
The United States Strikes Iran – What Happens Now?
In this urgent special edition of Productive Conversations, Matt and Ryan reacts to breaking news: the United States has launched military strikes against Iran. What led to this escalation? What are the global implications? How are world leaders responding? Matt and Ryan breaks down the facts, the fallout, and what this could mean for America, the Middle East, and the rest of the world.
Tap in to Episode 561 of the Productive Conversations Podcast—available now on all podcast platforms and YouTube.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:01):
What's going on everybody? Even though this is urgent, it
is true that the world is abetter place because you are
here to join us. My name is MattBrown, and I'm the host of the
productive conversationspodcast. We have a very
important podcast to record andwe have a very important
productive conversation to haveright now. It's Ryan and I on
(00:22):
the call.
What's up, Ryan?
Ryan (00:27):
How's it going? Yeah. This is definitely not how I wanted
our first, our first podcast inmy new, my new setup to be
about. Although we one of us didsay this was gonna happen. So
we'll get into that for sure.
But yeah, I'm good or as good asI can be, which we'll get into.
Matt (00:47):
Indeed, indeed. And congratulations on your new
setup. And yeah, let's just getinto it right now. And as
always, don't forget to checkout check us out on all podcasts
and platforms in YouTube andcheck out our presenting sponsor
Magic Mind, the ultimate elixircompany, Magic Mind Reclaim Your
Brain. That ismagicmind.com/pc,june,pcjune for
(01:10):
48% of your first subscription,28% of your first one time
purchase.
So here it is. Here's the deal.After months, maybe even years
of tensions where we had thecountry of Iran attack militia
groups, attack United Statesallies and troops in The Middle
(01:30):
East, and having threats goingback and forth between the
various nations. It happened on06/21/2025. Operation Operation
Midnight Hammer was launched andwhat took place?
The United States Of Americastruck Iranian nuclear
(01:56):
enrichment facilities. They wenton to take they took out Iranian
nuclear plants in the town inthe cities of Fordo, Nandans and
Ishfaan. And seven B2 Sprintbombers flew an eighteen hour
(02:16):
mission across the globecarrying 14 massive ordnance
penetrators, their first combatuse ever against Fordo and
Nance. And long story short, TheUnited States attacked Iran,
entering the conflict betweenIran and Israel and now entering
(02:39):
well, let's say it. The UnitedStates entered a war over this
past weekend.
Ryan, not even two days after webroke it down for a half an
hour, President Trump took histwo weeks and he decided to
attack Iran. Iran. And headdressed the nation at 10:00 on
Saturday night. Here we are. Andwell, as I said, the B 50 twos,
(03:07):
they attacked those facilities.
Pentagon officials described theattack as a military success
with extreme severe damage toIran's nuclear infrastructure.
Iran IAEA confirmed no abnormalradiation detected and this
officially was aimed toobliterate Iran's nuclear
(03:30):
enrichment capability not tochange the regime. President
Trump warned Iran to make peaceor face even greater precision
strikes and the immediateaftermath of this, right? Iran
response overnight and pledgequote regrettable responses and
is reportedly weighing stepslike closing the straight of
(03:53):
Hormuz, a major a major riverfor trading, right? We had Iran
say that what's the term calledstem?
What? How do pronounce it? Itthat they launched.
Ryan (04:07):
I'm sorry. Which one?
Matt (04:08):
You're the one who sent me pretty much. They're not spies
but they let stem. What's theterm Get this right.
Ryan (04:17):
Oh, I mean, they've got I mean, they got all of their
various militia groups that theycan use to attack American
bases. So the Houthis, theHezbollah Hamas, which isn't I
mean, maybe not Hamas, but theother ones are still around.
Right. There's a few others.Yeah.
Matt (04:35):
Right. And they also respect. But yes, there's that.
And at this moment, the timewe're recording here on late
Sunday night, June 22 in termsof global reactions, Russia,
China, the European Union, andthe UN called for the escalation
(04:58):
and diplomacy at this time.Israel welcomed The United
States action seeing it as partof its broader campaign and
yeah, there's about 40,000troops that were notified that
are stationed in the MiddleEast, but they do expect
retaliations from this.
So that's what we have here. Iunderstand all the various
(05:23):
concerns with this, especiallyfor those who have or friends of
ours that are stationed in TheMiddle East. Those are our
family members and, you know,the well-being of other people.
It's definitely understandableto be in fear of what's going to
go on and what can exactlyhappen but if there's anything I
can offer, I do want to justshow two clips. I understand on
(05:43):
social media, there's a lot ofpeople out here giving their
take and stuff and you know,it's fine except the people who
are ridiculous about it and arestraight up lying about it but I
just want to show in terms ofwhat this means for the future
is this going to cause a worldwar?
Is this going to cause a majoryou know, major continued major
conflicts? I just want to showthis guy, John Cho, right? John
(06:08):
Cho. Somewhat, he is a teacherand a growing influencer and I
believe somebody who does is acredible source. I have two
clips to play.
Number one, are we going intoWorld War three? Here's his take
on it.
John Cho (06:30):
Four three. No. And I'll tell you why. If you've
been paying attention, you knowthat there have been missiles
exchanged between Iran andIsrael on June with Israel
targeting Iran's supposednuclear facilities. Well, why is
this important?
Because in 1970, there was apact made by a 190 nation. In
(06:52):
that pact, it was agreed that noone could have nuclear weapons
except for five countries, theUS, the UK, Russia, China, and
France. You notice I didn't sayIsrael. That's because Israel
was not part of that 190 anation pact, and it is believed
that Israel does have somewherearound a 100 nukes. Well, why is
(07:14):
World War three not gonnahappen?
Because of Russia and China.They have only offered words of
support to Iran, nothing else.As of right now, Russia and
China is not offering anymilitary support to Iran even
though Russia has verballycondemned Israel's actions. I
think the real key here is gonnabe Pakistan. Pakistan has
(07:39):
already said verbally that ifIsrael uses their nukes against
Iran, that Pakistan would helpIran.
And if Pakistan joins the war,most likely, India would join
the war in favor of theIsraelis. And so far, there have
been no indications that thosetwo nations have any intent on
(07:59):
joining this skirmish. And asfar as The United States is
concerned, yes, president Trumpdid say that we bombed three of
Iran's nuclear facilities.However, the idea of bombing
Iran's nuclear facilities is toprevent World War three by
disarming Iran, and I don'tbelieve that Russia and China
(08:21):
are gonna get involved. Russia,as you know, has much bigger
issues of their own to dealwith.
So, no, I don't think World Warthree is gonna happen.
Matt (08:30):
So with that first take there and continued on, and one
of the thing talking points wetalked about on the show on the
last recap is regarding Russia,China, North Korea's
involvement. Because if therewere going to be a World War
three, that those nations wouldjoin Iran's side. Now, the
(08:53):
moment has happened. Yeah. As Imentioned and by the way, that
was recorded within the lasttwenty four hours.
That clip, this one was recordedabout twelve hours ago at the
time of this recording and whatare those nations thinking
besides the report I read fromthe Associated Press? So, here's
his take there. And thequestion, explain why Russia,
(09:17):
China, and North Korea aren'tgetting involved.
John Cho (09:21):
Explain why Russia, China, and North Korea aren't
getting involved in this IranianIsraeli conflict and why there
will be no World War three.Sure. First, China. As of 2023,
as you can see in this chart,this is Iran's or Iran's crude
oil exports. 2018, you noticedthat a lot of European nations
(09:44):
and India backed out.
So as of 2023, Iran's mainimporter of Iran's oil is China.
And how does China get that oilfrom Iran even though there are
all kinds of sanctions on Iranright now? A lot of times, they
have to sneak it through thisarea, the Strait Of Hormuz. When
(10:06):
China is buying up
Matt (10:08):
Sorry. I mispronounced that the first time, but, yes,
that's straight again.
John Cho (10:12):
There's no way they want to see a conflict here in
this area. It would mean aneconomic disaster for China. And
I don't know if you know this ornot, but China is experiencing
their own economic problemsright now. China has also not
recognized Iran as a formalally. China did broker a peace
(10:33):
between Iran and Saudi Arabiarecently, so they do have some
negotiating strength in theMiddle East, but that's all
China's doing.
They are just talking. They willnot send any military personnel
to Iran to help them out. As forRussia, I don't know if you know
this, but recently, Russia justhit the 1,000,000 mark when it
(10:54):
comes to casualties in their warwith Ukraine. And, again, same
thing with China. It's all talkright now with Russia.
They condemned Israel for theiractions. They said, yeah. What
they're doing is terrible, butthey're not doing anything about
it. The only country that isstepping up to do anything about
it is The United States. Anddon't get me started on North
(11:17):
Korea, please.
The only country that NorthKorea cares about is North
Korea. If a conflict doesn't
Ryan (11:24):
It sounds correct.
John Cho (11:24):
Directly impact
Ryan (11:25):
Oh, okay.
John Cho (11:26):
North Korea's interest, they're not getting
involved. And not to befacetious or anything, but North
Korea can't even build missilesthat don't land in the water. So
everybody worried about WorldWar three right now. It just
rocks. It's not gonna happen.
Matt (11:39):
Thank you, mister Cho. And I got one more just if you
didn't believe in mister Cho forsome reason, I have one more
about, again, the low chances ofa major world conflict. Geo
Hauser, we have right here.Let's see what he has on this,
and that'll be that with the
Geoff (11:58):
Iran's chances of developing the nuclear bomb. No.
It is not The US entered theIran war and obliterated Iran's
chances of developing thenuclear bomb. No. It is not
World War III.
We are further from it thanwe've ever been. Remember that a
world war is something that hasto be waged by an enemy that can
produce the scale of warfare astheir opponent. Iran, Russia,
(12:21):
not even China can still producethe scale of warfare as The
United States along with all ofNATO. Iran's bargaining chip
with the West and most of theworld was their lack of pursuit
of a nuclear program even thoughthey were doing so in secret.
That is not on the tableanymore.
So what does Iran have? Almost70% of their missile launcher
(12:43):
capacity is gone. About 60 to70% of their missile capacity,
ballistic and otherwise, aregone. And The United States just
showed the world that they hadthe firepower to do what no
other country could by droppingthe GBU 57 a slash b bunker
buster, which was capable ofgetting about 60 or 70 meters
(13:05):
into the ground. But they didn'tjust drop one, they dropped 12
of them along with 30 Tomahawkmissiles to destroy the Fordo
nuclear site and two others.
So far, Saudi Arabia's nuclearregulator says that there has
been no radioactive traces fromthe destruction of these nuclear
sites. Of course, Iran'sleadership vows retaliation.
(13:26):
They are urging attack on all USforces in the surrounding areas,
and now they are threatening toclose the Strait Of Hormuz. Iran
could not defend its mostfortified nuclear facilities in
their country with whatevermilitary hardware and troops
that they had left. What chancedo they think they stand against
the United States Navy if theywanna open up
Ryan (13:49):
Turn this idiot off. Strait Of Hormuz. While Russia
Why you
Matt (13:52):
don't like Iran? We're gonna finish.
Geoff (13:53):
We gotta listen to everybody. Abandoning the
strategic agreement they had inJanuary. All China wants is oil
from that Strait Of Hormuz. Soif Iran actually shuts that
down, they will offend China. IfAmerica opens it back up through
force, China will be happy.
Of course, China's officialresponse would be, we are
against US involvement. This isa wrong thing, blah blah blah.
(14:17):
But as long as oil is stayingunder $75 a barrel, they'll be
pretty quiet. Now the questionis, is The United States role in
this war done since Iran is nolonger a nuclear threat? There
are concerns that Iran'sopponent will continue to bomb
Iran because they want to nowdestroy their ballistic missile
program, which does make senseif you are Iran's enemy.
(14:39):
But there is no need for TheUnited States to bomb their
ballistic missile programbecause Iran's opponent has
already taken care of everythingthat is not more than 90 meters
underground. I have heard thisridiculous argument from some
fairly pro Iranian supportersthat Iran has merely been
showing restraint, but now thatthis has happened, they are no
(15:00):
longer going to. Okay, let's seewhat happens because if Iran
keeps performing in the samemanner after today, guess what?
You all were horrendously wrong,and Iran is not even a paper
tiger. They are a paper mouse.
And the same exact thing goesfor Russia. And what about
China? Well, they're stillcrapping their pants because
(15:23):
America just had a breakthroughwith not a hypersonic missile, a
hypersonic aircraft, which issomething that China is nowhere
near close to. A couple daysago, I made a post about how
it's not World War three, andI'll attach it in the captions.
You should definitely watch it.
The only thing I've gotten wrongin that post was that I didn't
think that The US was going toget involved in the actual
(15:45):
bombing of Iran. But Iran'sopponent did not Most at all.
Have the capability to destroythe Fordo site, so they had to
rely on us. One thing I willstill say with a 100%
confidence, and I will die onthis hill, is that this is not
World War three. We haven't beeninvolved in World War three.
This has just been a longcampaign to crush whatever
(16:06):
military and diplomaticinfluence the Axis has. I am the
Gio Hussar. I barely postedtoday because I was just trying
to spend the time with my wifeand kids. Thanks for watching.
Matt (16:17):
Alright, Ryan. From your interruption, does it seem like
you were, keen on
Ryan (16:22):
what you're Alright.
Matt (16:24):
So what was he wrong about? Ryan, what was he wrong
about? So
Ryan (16:29):
first and foremost, Okay. Matt, if you wanna defend him,
defend him first, and then I'llgo.
Matt (16:35):
There's nothing to defend my agree. There's I just agree.
The idea it's the idea that thisisn't gonna turn into a major
world war. That's the point. Andwith various sources that he did
cite and showed, I don't see whythere's some why he's not
credible.
(16:56):
And I'm not looking here tostart an argument because We
Ryan (17:00):
don't have to. I agree. I agree that what happened
yesterday did not start WorldWar three. As I said, literally
two days ago, World War three isnot we won't know when World War
three starts. It'll be a bunchof separate things and they all
come together.
And then years down the line,they'll be like, wow, that was
(17:21):
pretty big. I'm not saying thatthis is a part of that or not a
part of that, but no. Anyone whothinks we're about to enter
World War three is wrong. Iagree with that. But the idea
that there's nothing that Irancan do that's going to be a
problem to me is crazy.
Almost as crazy as the idea thatRussia and China are paper
tigers compared to The UnitedStates Of America. In the India
(17:45):
Pakistan Skirmish, which didhappen earlier this year, we all
forgot about it because it endedrelatively quickly. China's
aircraft went up againstAmerica's aircraft for the first
time ever. Obviously, it waswith Indian and Pakistani
pilots, but it was still ouraircraft versus China aircraft
and they absolutely held theirown. So that's to me, the idea
(18:07):
that those all three of thosecountries are paper tigers is
just on its face disqualifying.
And again, you can have pride inyour country. We are definitely
still the strongest military in
Matt (18:16):
world.
Ryan (18:17):
That's not the case.
Matt (18:18):
You'd have to show the evidence on that, But he cited
his sources throughout. What'sthere not to believe or think?
Of course, won't lie, I'm not aseducated in that matter. But
again, all the him and Choshowed plenty of sources on, you
know I didn't disagree with Cho.
Ryan (18:40):
I had no problem with Cho. I didn't disagree with him at
all. I disagreed with the secondguy because that second guy was
hyperbolic to the extreme. No. Iagree with what Cho was saying.
North Korea is North Korea caresabout attacking mostly South
Korea. And if what's happeningdoesn't allow them to attack
South Korea, then they're reallynot all that interested. That's
(19:01):
true. China is probably notgoing to attack on Iran's
behalf. Why?
Because they're not reallyfriends with Iran. They may go
they get their oil from Iran,but that's it. Russia and Iran
are actually friends, butRussia's got a massive war
literally on its own border inthe Ukraine. And so the idea
that they can send a lot ofresources right now is, I don't
(19:24):
know, seems unlikely to me. SoI'm not disagreeing again with
the idea that we're on theprecipice of World War three
because I don't think we are.
But first and foremost, theStrait Of Hormuz. It's not just
China's oil that comes fromthere. 25% of global oil comes
from there. 25% of global oilcomes through that Strait. If
(19:47):
they blockade the Strait OfHormuz, everybody, us included,
are going to watch the gasprices soar from $75 a barrel,
like he said, dollars a barrel,etcetera, etcetera.
That's going to create a massiveproblem for everyone. And then
number two, his basically, hesaid, and if they do that, if
(20:10):
they're dumb enough to do that,if they're dumb enough to attack
us, bomb them again. The problemwith that is we did was in
violation of the of what the UNis supposed to be about. They
didn't attack us. Iran was nevera threat to The United States Of
America as this as the secondguy pointed out correctly.
They did not have the capacityto hit us with any of these
(20:31):
weapons. They had the capacityto hit Israel. Yeah. I could see
why Israel wanted to attackthem. But we had absolutely no
issues with Iran.
I mean, they're a nuisance andthey they fund terrorism, so
it's not no issues, but theywere not a direct threat as a
nation to The United States OfAmerica or any of its citizens.
And we attacked them basicallyunprovoked on behalf of another
(20:54):
nation. When you talk about thenukes, by the way, Israel, as we
pointed out, Mr. Cho did, didn'tsign the test ban treaty. So
we're enforcing a nuclear treatyon behalf of a country who's not
even in the nuclear treaty.
It does not make any sense. Soto answer the actual question,
(21:14):
which is I think what you weretrying to do, anyone who says
this is World War three is beinghyperbolic. It's not World War
three. We've dropped one bomb.That's it.
Or 12 bombs, but you know what Imean. We had one bombing
campaign. If we stop there,they're gonna attack us back.
They're probably gonna make allof our gas cost a lot more, but
(21:35):
that's it. And then we let itgo.
If we don't let it go, if wedecide that we're gonna forcibly
reopen this from who's if wedecide that any attack on an
American after we attacked themfirst is gonna result in another
round of bombings, then itbecomes a problem. Because then
now we're actively engaged incombat. And besides that alone
(21:58):
being an issue, we were in thewrong to begin with. We attacked
them to begin with. They werenot a credible threat, as both
people that we just listened tohave stated.
But we attack them anyway. Thereis absolutely no reason for
that. And so, what I would sayto the people who are fear
mongering, stop. Because whatyou are doing is you are making
(22:21):
it harder for people understandthe gravity of what is actually
happening. It doesn't have to beWorld War three for this to be
in a bad situation forAmericans, for America, The
Middle East in general,etcetera.
But for the people who are goingway to make content, basically
trying to get as many clips asthe fearmongers, calling the
(22:42):
fearmongers ignorant orwhatever. I mean, listen. End of
the day, the silence makes thetanks roll faster. That's true.
It's always been true throughouthistory.
People not admitting whatthey're seeing with their own
eyes is how people continue totake advantage of other
(23:03):
countries, how wars continue tostart, and how Americans, be
they diplomats, soldiers, orcitizens, continue to die in
these far off places surroundedby people who they don't even
know. So I I just to me, I thinkwe need to be a little bit more
realistic about this. And, youknow, it's fine to have
(23:27):
optimism, but we can't bePollyanna about a freaking war
in The Middle East. Our entirechildhood, Matt, we've been at
war in The Middle East. Fouryears ago, we ended a war in The
Middle East, and now we arestanding at the precipice of yet
another war in The Middle East.
How many of these caskets haveto fly into DC every year over
(23:50):
nothing? Every single one ofthese wars has been for nothing.
We went to Iraq for no reason.And now, the same guy who is
critiquing everybody for doingthat, just bombed a country that
was basically so far out of ourleague. Like, it's insane how
not in our league Iran was.
(24:11):
So you if we wanna be real,let's be real. George Hafiz or
whatever his name is is right.Iran is not in our league. So
basically, we're the asshole whowalked up to the kid who can't
defend himself and kicked him inthe throat. And we did it
because our friends asked us to.
When did The United States starttaking orders from other people?
And yes, maybe there's no gonnabe any bombs falling here in,
(24:33):
you know, in DC where I live.Good. I'm glad. Personally, very
happy that I don't have to worryabout that.
That doesn't make it okay.That's not that's not where
we're drawing the line with. Oh,as long as no American on
American soil is going to behurt directly, all is well. No.
We should hold ourselves to abetter standard.
We wanna be the biggest, baddestcountry in the planet, we can do
(24:54):
that. But that comes with someresponsibility. It's
responsibility that ouradministration has advocated.
And frankly, as I've been seeingonline, more than half of the
American people have advocated,and it's disgusting. There you
Matt (25:09):
agree with you. And I said from the start, I don't wanna be
in this I don't want us to be inthis war either. And all I'm
just saying is, of course, it'sterrible and we have to live
with these problems of theMiddle East. And like you said,
we've grown up our whole livestalking about our tensions with
that whole region. And all Iwanted just to show again was an
(25:34):
alternative to the fearmongering, as you said.
And yeah, everyone's entitled totheir opinion on how they feel,
whether they're pro or againstwhat the Trump administration
decided to do and yeah, I agreewith you bro. I don't want this.
I didn't want this to be thisway. I didn't want to you know,
(25:55):
make another show out of thisout of this but it's in the
history books and I admire yourpassion and keep that going and
the only thing I also I wouldlike to ask is what solutions
can we come from here That's inyour opinion, you know, those
boxes has been opened. Fromhere?
So where do we go from here?
Ryan (26:18):
Yeah. From here, unfortunately, it's gonna
require American restraint,something we didn't display last
time. The answer has been thesame every time. If America
doesn't show, you know, show up,then it stays a regional
conflict in The Middle East. Endof conversation.
We showed up once. They're goingto do something to us. I think
(26:40):
it's I think it's insane. Thisis why mister mister Chu, I was
good with. It's insane topretend Iran is going to sit
down and let this happen.
Alright? They are a theocracy,meaning the supreme leader, the
Ayatollah, is a religious andgovernment figure. They are
basically a dictatorship in verymany ways. If he sits back and
(27:03):
does nothing, it's very likelythat his own people will get rid
of him. That's what happens whenyou when you rule that way, and
there's a couple people inWashington who might wanna take
notes about this just in casethey had any fun ideas.
When you rule through fear andpower, the only way you get out
(27:25):
of is in a body bag. So he can'tbe weak if he looks weak. And
yeah, we might kill him. Wedon't, they will. So he's going
to do something.
When that we'll have a choice tomake. Do nothing and say, that's
(27:47):
it. You took your best shot, itoff because you're tiny and
we're huge. Now come to thenegotiating table and get this
thing settled before it gets anyworse. Or what we will do
because of who we have incharge, we'll respond to that.
We'll escalate again. Andeventually, if you escalate
(28:09):
enough, someone else is gonnajump in. If not if for another
reason it's to stop theescalation because it's costing
them money or or manpower orwhatever. Someone is going to
jump in to stop the escalationif we decide to escalate with
somebody who can't even lace ourboots. It's that's the problem.
The only way out is restraint,and we can't expect the
(28:32):
Ayatollah to have restraint. Ifwe could, we wouldn't be in this
situation because he wouldn'thave been enriching uranium as
fast as he was. We can't askIsrael to show restraint
because, I mean, no offense toIsrael, they have never shown
any restraint. That is notsomething that they do. Right?
We are the only people at thispoint who are involved who can
(28:53):
show restraint and say enough.Not at gunpoint, not say enough,
you don't do anything and youmake peace or else. No.
Diplomacy by gunpoint neverworks. Threatening somebody into
the negotiating table is arecipe for them to break their
negotiation because you broughtthem there by gunpoint.
Of course, they don't they'renot into it. You forced it. We
(29:16):
are the ones who have to backdown now. We have to say, we
told you we could destroy yourbunker and we did. And when
after they hit us, that's whatwe have to continue to say.
We won't do it, and that's whythis is a problem. And I know I
would love to say we might doit. I thought we might. I
thought two weeks ago by and wewouldn't do anything. Genuinely,
I did.
I was kind of of the mind thatTrump wouldn't attack Iran
(29:38):
because, again, why? He doesn'tgive a shit.
Matt (29:42):
As in I thought it'd be easy ways we've seen so far in
the first five months of thisadministration that what is the
problem in the Trumpadministration for the week,
whether it's an ICE, whetherit's a list of problem. And then
that's how our minds would getoff it. But he did that two days
(30:03):
after we had the conversation.And
Ryan (30:05):
he always says that. He says two weeks, right? Because
he knows in two weeks time,we'll be talking about something
different. So he's like, yeah,two weeks, we'll come back to
it. Then he just I thought thiswas going to happen.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I thoughtthat's what was going to because
it's it's happened a milliontimes, and it's annoying. But it
wasn't war with Iran. But,obviously, on this particular
front, he decided not to dothat. And I have to take that to
(30:27):
mean that this he's seriousabout this.
Matt (30:29):
Yeah.
Ryan (30:29):
He does wanna attack them. And so I don't believe
Matt (30:32):
And there's plenty of contradictions to show from pre
president Trump tweets and allof that. But I think it just
shows and campaign promises,regarding not starting a war in
The Middle East. And, yeah, it'sjust if there's anything to
reflect on, just, you know,always take a grain of salt with
politicians. But, again, wateris wet. You should have seen
(30:53):
that coming anyways.
Ryan (30:54):
Well, yeah. But I I do think we should say this. Like,
politicians all lie. We've saidthat on this show, of course.
But a lot of times, if we talkabout this offline, those lies
are in service of like, I don'twant to say something that's I
hate this phrase.
It's a Trump phrase, but I'mgoing to use it. Directionally
true. Right? So Donald Trump,first time around, said, we're
gonna build a wall and Mexico'sgonna pay for it. Obviously,
(31:17):
that didn't happen.
The wall's not there. Mexico putup no money for the parts of the
wall that are there.
Matt (31:22):
However, we
Ryan (31:23):
did remember. Yeah, we all remember. And then they said
that we're not going to pay forit. He goes, now it's 10 feet
higher. And everybody lovedthat.
They cheered like it was theSuper Bowl. Anyway, my point is,
while we didn't build a wall, wedid put some of the toughest
immigration enforcementregulations ever. We did the
kids in cages, we separatedfamilies, all that stuff was
around that time period. Right?And then you go, Biden, he was
(31:46):
gonna get rid of student loandebt.
Well, I'm a student. I still gotloan debt. Didn't work. Yeah.
However, he did try and heexpanded the, you know, the
federal payoff for if you workin like a nonprofit or for the
federal government for fiveyears, six years, they'll pay
off however much.
He expanded programs off morepeople's debt. Did he cancel
(32:06):
debt promise? No. But it was hewas focused on trying to get rid
of student debt to some degree.Donald Trump in this pain said,
we are going to end the war inUkraine on day one.
Now, obviously, anyone whobelieved that his first in
office, he was going to end awar between Russia and Ukraine
is stupid. Sorry. But I'm gonnasay it. If you believed it'd
(32:29):
take one day to end a three yearconflict, you don't know what
you're talking about. However,the idea is had he been
following the normal pattern, hewould have been a pro peace
candidate, trying to end wars,trying to negotiate, trying to
be a stronger force in foreignpolicy.
This is the opposite of that. Hesaid he was going to fix the
(32:53):
problem with Israel in in Gaza.Not only is that not fixed, now
Iran is fighting in the MiddleEast. He said he was gonna fix
Russia and Ukraine. Not only isthat still going on, Russia's
ally in the Middle East just gothit by The US.
He did the opposite. It's onething not to do your promise.
It's another thing to do theopposite of what you promised.
(33:15):
And that to me is what'sannoying to me because it's not
because we're we're gonna paintit as all politicians lie. And,
yes, they do.
I agree. But, like, we should bejust clear about this. This is
not just, oh, he lied. Like, orno, he, you know, he made a
promise he couldn't keep. Heliterally did the opposite of
what he promised to do.
The opposite. Like, how do youhow do you trust a guy who does
(33:39):
the opposite of what theypromised? Not even you know what
I mean? I I don't know. I justdon't understand that everyone's
got all this faith in this manstill.
And I don't I don't understand.I get it. We all hated her. We
all hated Joe. Democrats suck.
I agree, frankly. But really? Westill trust this guy now? That
doesn't make a lot of sense tome.
Matt (33:59):
You know how the Colts are. Know how the Colts are. I
do think we had a this has beenquality and I do think we heard
various perspectives. Andwhether again you disagree or
not at the end of the day, allwe want is people to be safe and
(34:20):
have some diplomacy one way orthe other. So, I'm just going to
ask one more question, Ryan.
Is there anything else you wantto reflect on during this
matter? Because I do think we'reabout to hit the thirty minute
mark. I think it's good to leaveit right there.
Ryan (34:34):
I do want to say something very, very fast because I've
been super negative on thisshow, you've all heard. Thing
that is true Yeah. I know. Butone thing that's true and
remains true when I say it, whenmister Chu says it, when the
other dude says it, geopoliticsis messy and it's complicated.
(34:54):
I'm not a geopolitical expert.
I don't care what you teach inyour history class, you are not
a geopolitical expert. No onetalking on the Internet is a
geopolitical expert. The actualgeopolitical experts, you know
what they're not doing? Talking.Why?
Because it would right. Becauseit'd be a very, very bad idea
for them to start talkingbecause that's when, like,
(35:17):
military plans get leaked.Right? So I do think everyone
needs to keep that in mind. Wedon't no one knows how this will
all pan out.
Nobody. There is a world wherethe Ayatollah does nothing, and
his people might even deposehim, like I suggested. And then
someone else is in charge ofIran. Now we said that that's
(35:37):
not what we were trying to do.It might just happen anyway.
So I think it's important thatwe keep that, excuse me, keep
that in mind. That we can alltalk about what we think is
going to happen, but these arecomplex situations, sometimes
centuries in the making. And wehave to be open to the idea that
(36:00):
we don't know what we don'tknow. And if more people did
that, I think we'd be in a muchbetter spot than we are right
now. But while we can't stopother people from doing it and
ask our listeners to take astock of what they don't know
and understand that you can havean opinion, but it's not an
(36:22):
expert opinion just because youhad it.
I think that that's importantinformation that we this is a
complex issue and people aregonna get stuff wrong. I was I
was included.
Matt (36:36):
That's true. At the end of the day, just use your critical
thinking skills and use yourhead. That's all I have to say
with that and we're going towrap it up there. We have a
great week of shows, shows everysingle day of this week.
Obviously, this Monday, we onthis Monday, we have this
reaction, instant reaction.
(36:56):
Iran, United States attacksIran. Tweet cap Tuesday.
Wednesday, we have a sportstweet cap. Thursday, we have two
shows, an NBA draft first roundreaction, and we got a regular
tweet cap. Sorry, on Thursday.
(37:16):
And we have a magic mind specialepisode which you'll figure out.
We're gonna make it fun andpositive. Yeah. And then we have
a tweet cap on Friday. Thenwe're actually gonna take all
that next week off for thefourth of July holiday.
I hope you can enjoy that weekas much as you can. At least
this happened now, Ryan, not theweek off.
Ryan (37:36):
Yeah. And not not while we were trying to enjoy our
holiday. No. Yeah. I agree.
I thought for sure it was gonnahappen that week, to be honest
with you. So I was actuallywrong about that. If you listen
to definitely listen to ourepisode from But, yeah, I said
it was gonna happen that weekjust because we were trying to
take vacation. So littlevictories, right? We didn't have
(37:57):
to we don't have to come whilewe're, you know, away.
Matt (38:01):
The little victories indeed. But we'll see you
throughout the week. Stay safeout there. God bless. And, you
know, we're here for we're herefor our troops.
We're here supporting them mostof all
Ryan (38:13):
for everybody.
Matt (38:14):
They're affected the most. Yeah. It's everybody.
Ryan (38:16):
Yes.
Matt (38:19):
See you later.
What's going on everybody? Even though this is urgent, it
is true that the world is abetter place because you are
here to join us. My name is MattBrown, and I'm the host of the
productive conversationspodcast. We have a very
important podcast to record andwe have a very important
productive conversation to haveright now. It's Ryan and I on
(00:22):
the call.
What's up, Ryan?
Ryan (00:27):
How's it going? Yeah. This is definitely not how I wanted
our first, our first podcast inmy new, my new setup to be
about. Although we one of us didsay this was gonna happen. So
we'll get into that for sure.
But yeah, I'm good or as good asI can be, which we'll get into.
Matt (00:47):
Indeed, indeed. And congratulations on your new
setup. And yeah, let's just getinto it right now. And as
always, don't forget to checkout check us out on all podcasts
and platforms in YouTube andcheck out our presenting sponsor
Magic Mind, the ultimate elixircompany, Magic Mind Reclaim Your
Brain. That ismagicmind.com/pc,june,pcjune for
(01:10):
48% of your first subscription,28% of your first one time
purchase.
So here it is. Here's the deal.After months, maybe even years
of tensions where we had thecountry of Iran attack militia
groups, attack United Statesallies and troops in The Middle
(01:30):
East, and having threats goingback and forth between the
various nations. It happened on06/21/2025. Operation Operation
Midnight Hammer was launched andwhat took place?
The United States Of Americastruck Iranian nuclear
(01:56):
enrichment facilities. They wenton to take they took out Iranian
nuclear plants in the town inthe cities of Fordo, Nandans and
Ishfaan. And seven B2 Sprintbombers flew an eighteen hour
(02:16):
mission across the globecarrying 14 massive ordnance
penetrators, their first combatuse ever against Fordo and
Nance. And long story short, TheUnited States attacked Iran,
entering the conflict betweenIran and Israel and now entering
(02:39):
well, let's say it. The UnitedStates entered a war over this
past weekend.
Ryan, not even two days after webroke it down for a half an
hour, President Trump took histwo weeks and he decided to
attack Iran. Iran. And headdressed the nation at 10:00 on
Saturday night. Here we are. Andwell, as I said, the B 50 twos,
(03:07):
they attacked those facilities.
Pentagon officials described theattack as a military success
with extreme severe damage toIran's nuclear infrastructure.
Iran IAEA confirmed no abnormalradiation detected and this
officially was aimed toobliterate Iran's nuclear
(03:30):
enrichment capability not tochange the regime. President
Trump warned Iran to make peaceor face even greater precision
strikes and the immediateaftermath of this, right? Iran
response overnight and pledgequote regrettable responses and
is reportedly weighing stepslike closing the straight of
(03:53):
Hormuz, a major a major riverfor trading, right? We had Iran
say that what's the term calledstem?
What? How do pronounce it? Itthat they launched.
Ryan (04:07):
I'm sorry. Which one?
Matt (04:08):
You're the one who sent me pretty much. They're not spies
but they let stem. What's theterm Get this right.
Ryan (04:17):
Oh, I mean, they've got I mean, they got all of their
various militia groups that theycan use to attack American
bases. So the Houthis, theHezbollah Hamas, which isn't I
mean, maybe not Hamas, but theother ones are still around.
Right. There's a few others.Yeah.
Matt (04:35):
Right. And they also respect. But yes, there's that.
And at this moment, the timewe're recording here on late
Sunday night, June 22 in termsof global reactions, Russia,
China, the European Union, andthe UN called for the escalation
(04:58):
and diplomacy at this time.Israel welcomed The United
States action seeing it as partof its broader campaign and
yeah, there's about 40,000troops that were notified that
are stationed in the MiddleEast, but they do expect
retaliations from this.
So that's what we have here. Iunderstand all the various
(05:23):
concerns with this, especiallyfor those who have or friends of
ours that are stationed in TheMiddle East. Those are our
family members and, you know,the well-being of other people.
It's definitely understandableto be in fear of what's going to
go on and what can exactlyhappen but if there's anything I
can offer, I do want to justshow two clips. I understand on
(05:43):
social media, there's a lot ofpeople out here giving their
take and stuff and you know,it's fine except the people who
are ridiculous about it and arestraight up lying about it but I
just want to show in terms ofwhat this means for the future
is this going to cause a worldwar?
Is this going to cause a majoryou know, major continued major
conflicts? I just want to showthis guy, John Cho, right? John
(06:08):
Cho. Somewhat, he is a teacherand a growing influencer and I
believe somebody who does is acredible source. I have two
clips to play.
Number one, are we going intoWorld War three? Here's his take
on it.
John Cho (06:30):
Four three. No. And I'll tell you why. If you've
been paying attention, you knowthat there have been missiles
exchanged between Iran andIsrael on June with Israel
targeting Iran's supposednuclear facilities. Well, why is
this important?
Because in 1970, there was apact made by a 190 nation. In
(06:52):
that pact, it was agreed that noone could have nuclear weapons
except for five countries, theUS, the UK, Russia, China, and
France. You notice I didn't sayIsrael. That's because Israel
was not part of that 190 anation pact, and it is believed
that Israel does have somewherearound a 100 nukes. Well, why is
(07:14):
World War three not gonnahappen?
Because of Russia and China.They have only offered words of
support to Iran, nothing else.As of right now, Russia and
China is not offering anymilitary support to Iran even
though Russia has verballycondemned Israel's actions. I
think the real key here is gonnabe Pakistan. Pakistan has
(07:39):
already said verbally that ifIsrael uses their nukes against
Iran, that Pakistan would helpIran.
And if Pakistan joins the war,most likely, India would join
the war in favor of theIsraelis. And so far, there have
been no indications that thosetwo nations have any intent on
(07:59):
joining this skirmish. And asfar as The United States is
concerned, yes, president Trumpdid say that we bombed three of
Iran's nuclear facilities.However, the idea of bombing
Iran's nuclear facilities is toprevent World War three by
disarming Iran, and I don'tbelieve that Russia and China
(08:21):
are gonna get involved. Russia,as you know, has much bigger
issues of their own to dealwith.
So, no, I don't think World Warthree is gonna happen.
Matt (08:30):
So with that first take there and continued on, and one
of the thing talking points wetalked about on the show on the
last recap is regarding Russia,China, North Korea's
involvement. Because if therewere going to be a World War
three, that those nations wouldjoin Iran's side. Now, the
(08:53):
moment has happened. Yeah. As Imentioned and by the way, that
was recorded within the lasttwenty four hours.
That clip, this one was recordedabout twelve hours ago at the
time of this recording and whatare those nations thinking
besides the report I read fromthe Associated Press? So, here's
his take there. And thequestion, explain why Russia,
(09:17):
China, and North Korea aren'tgetting involved.
John Cho (09:21):
Explain why Russia, China, and North Korea aren't
getting involved in this IranianIsraeli conflict and why there
will be no World War three.Sure. First, China. As of 2023,
as you can see in this chart,this is Iran's or Iran's crude
oil exports. 2018, you noticedthat a lot of European nations
(09:44):
and India backed out.
So as of 2023, Iran's mainimporter of Iran's oil is China.
And how does China get that oilfrom Iran even though there are
all kinds of sanctions on Iranright now? A lot of times, they
have to sneak it through thisarea, the Strait Of Hormuz. When
(10:06):
China is buying up
Matt (10:08):
Sorry. I mispronounced that the first time, but, yes,
that's straight again.
John Cho (10:12):
There's no way they want to see a conflict here in
this area. It would mean aneconomic disaster for China. And
I don't know if you know this ornot, but China is experiencing
their own economic problemsright now. China has also not
recognized Iran as a formalally. China did broker a peace
(10:33):
between Iran and Saudi Arabiarecently, so they do have some
negotiating strength in theMiddle East, but that's all
China's doing.
They are just talking. They willnot send any military personnel
to Iran to help them out. As forRussia, I don't know if you know
this, but recently, Russia justhit the 1,000,000 mark when it
(10:54):
comes to casualties in their warwith Ukraine. And, again, same
thing with China. It's all talkright now with Russia.
They condemned Israel for theiractions. They said, yeah. What
they're doing is terrible, butthey're not doing anything about
it. The only country that isstepping up to do anything about
it is The United States. Anddon't get me started on North
(11:17):
Korea, please.
The only country that NorthKorea cares about is North
Korea. If a conflict doesn't
Ryan (11:24):
It sounds correct.
John Cho (11:24):
Directly impact
Ryan (11:25):
Oh, okay.
John Cho (11:26):
North Korea's interest, they're not getting
involved. And not to befacetious or anything, but North
Korea can't even build missilesthat don't land in the water. So
everybody worried about WorldWar three right now. It just
rocks. It's not gonna happen.
Matt (11:39):
Thank you, mister Cho. And I got one more just if you
didn't believe in mister Cho forsome reason, I have one more
about, again, the low chances ofa major world conflict. Geo
Hauser, we have right here.Let's see what he has on this,
and that'll be that with the
Geoff (11:58):
Iran's chances of developing the nuclear bomb. No.
It is not The US entered theIran war and obliterated Iran's
chances of developing thenuclear bomb. No. It is not
World War III.
We are further from it thanwe've ever been. Remember that a
world war is something that hasto be waged by an enemy that can
produce the scale of warfare astheir opponent. Iran, Russia,
(12:21):
not even China can still producethe scale of warfare as The
United States along with all ofNATO. Iran's bargaining chip
with the West and most of theworld was their lack of pursuit
of a nuclear program even thoughthey were doing so in secret.
That is not on the tableanymore.
So what does Iran have? Almost70% of their missile launcher
(12:43):
capacity is gone. About 60 to70% of their missile capacity,
ballistic and otherwise, aregone. And The United States just
showed the world that they hadthe firepower to do what no
other country could by droppingthe GBU 57 a slash b bunker
buster, which was capable ofgetting about 60 or 70 meters
(13:05):
into the ground. But they didn'tjust drop one, they dropped 12
of them along with 30 Tomahawkmissiles to destroy the Fordo
nuclear site and two others.
So far, Saudi Arabia's nuclearregulator says that there has
been no radioactive traces fromthe destruction of these nuclear
sites. Of course, Iran'sleadership vows retaliation.
(13:26):
They are urging attack on all USforces in the surrounding areas,
and now they are threatening toclose the Strait Of Hormuz. Iran
could not defend its mostfortified nuclear facilities in
their country with whatevermilitary hardware and troops
that they had left. What chancedo they think they stand against
the United States Navy if theywanna open up
Ryan (13:49):
Turn this idiot off. Strait Of Hormuz. While Russia
Why you
Matt (13:52):
don't like Iran? We're gonna finish.
Geoff (13:53):
We gotta listen to everybody. Abandoning the
strategic agreement they had inJanuary. All China wants is oil
from that Strait Of Hormuz. Soif Iran actually shuts that
down, they will offend China. IfAmerica opens it back up through
force, China will be happy.
Of course, China's officialresponse would be, we are
against US involvement. This isa wrong thing, blah blah blah.
(14:17):
But as long as oil is stayingunder $75 a barrel, they'll be
pretty quiet. Now the questionis, is The United States role in
this war done since Iran is nolonger a nuclear threat? There
are concerns that Iran'sopponent will continue to bomb
Iran because they want to nowdestroy their ballistic missile
program, which does make senseif you are Iran's enemy.
(14:39):
But there is no need for TheUnited States to bomb their
ballistic missile programbecause Iran's opponent has
already taken care of everythingthat is not more than 90 meters
underground. I have heard thisridiculous argument from some
fairly pro Iranian supportersthat Iran has merely been
showing restraint, but now thatthis has happened, they are no
(15:00):
longer going to. Okay, let's seewhat happens because if Iran
keeps performing in the samemanner after today, guess what?
You all were horrendously wrong,and Iran is not even a paper
tiger. They are a paper mouse.
And the same exact thing goesfor Russia. And what about
China? Well, they're stillcrapping their pants because
(15:23):
America just had a breakthroughwith not a hypersonic missile, a
hypersonic aircraft, which issomething that China is nowhere
near close to. A couple daysago, I made a post about how
it's not World War three, andI'll attach it in the captions.
You should definitely watch it.
The only thing I've gotten wrongin that post was that I didn't
think that The US was going toget involved in the actual
(15:45):
bombing of Iran. But Iran'sopponent did not Most at all.
Have the capability to destroythe Fordo site, so they had to
rely on us. One thing I willstill say with a 100%
confidence, and I will die onthis hill, is that this is not
World War three. We haven't beeninvolved in World War three.
This has just been a longcampaign to crush whatever
(16:06):
military and diplomaticinfluence the Axis has. I am the
Gio Hussar. I barely postedtoday because I was just trying
to spend the time with my wifeand kids. Thanks for watching.
Matt (16:17):
Alright, Ryan. From your interruption, does it seem like
you were, keen on
Ryan (16:22):
what you're Alright.
Matt (16:24):
So what was he wrong about? Ryan, what was he wrong
about? So
Ryan (16:29):
first and foremost, Okay. Matt, if you wanna defend him,
defend him first, and then I'llgo.
Matt (16:35):
There's nothing to defend my agree. There's I just agree.
The idea it's the idea that thisisn't gonna turn into a major
world war. That's the point. Andwith various sources that he did
cite and showed, I don't see whythere's some why he's not
credible.
(16:56):
And I'm not looking here tostart an argument because We
Ryan (17:00):
don't have to. I agree. I agree that what happened
yesterday did not start WorldWar three. As I said, literally
two days ago, World War three isnot we won't know when World War
three starts. It'll be a bunchof separate things and they all
come together.
And then years down the line,they'll be like, wow, that was
(17:21):
pretty big. I'm not saying thatthis is a part of that or not a
part of that, but no. Anyone whothinks we're about to enter
World War three is wrong. Iagree with that. But the idea
that there's nothing that Irancan do that's going to be a
problem to me is crazy.
Almost as crazy as the idea thatRussia and China are paper
tigers compared to The UnitedStates Of America. In the India
(17:45):
Pakistan Skirmish, which didhappen earlier this year, we all
forgot about it because it endedrelatively quickly. China's
aircraft went up againstAmerica's aircraft for the first
time ever. Obviously, it waswith Indian and Pakistani
pilots, but it was still ouraircraft versus China aircraft
and they absolutely held theirown. So that's to me, the idea
(18:07):
that those all three of thosecountries are paper tigers is
just on its face disqualifying.
And again, you can have pride inyour country. We are definitely
still the strongest military in
Matt (18:16):
world.
Ryan (18:17):
That's not the case.
Matt (18:18):
You'd have to show the evidence on that, But he cited
his sources throughout. What'sthere not to believe or think?
Of course, won't lie, I'm not aseducated in that matter. But
again, all the him and Choshowed plenty of sources on, you
know I didn't disagree with Cho.
Ryan (18:40):
I had no problem with Cho. I didn't disagree with him at
all. I disagreed with the secondguy because that second guy was
hyperbolic to the extreme. No. Iagree with what Cho was saying.
North Korea is North Korea caresabout attacking mostly South
Korea. And if what's happeningdoesn't allow them to attack
South Korea, then they're reallynot all that interested. That's
(19:01):
true. China is probably notgoing to attack on Iran's
behalf. Why?
Because they're not reallyfriends with Iran. They may go
they get their oil from Iran,but that's it. Russia and Iran
are actually friends, butRussia's got a massive war
literally on its own border inthe Ukraine. And so the idea
that they can send a lot ofresources right now is, I don't
(19:24):
know, seems unlikely to me. SoI'm not disagreeing again with
the idea that we're on theprecipice of World War three
because I don't think we are.
But first and foremost, theStrait Of Hormuz. It's not just
China's oil that comes fromthere. 25% of global oil comes
from there. 25% of global oilcomes through that Strait. If
(19:47):
they blockade the Strait OfHormuz, everybody, us included,
are going to watch the gasprices soar from $75 a barrel,
like he said, dollars a barrel,etcetera, etcetera.
That's going to create a massiveproblem for everyone. And then
number two, his basically, hesaid, and if they do that, if
(20:10):
they're dumb enough to do that,if they're dumb enough to attack
us, bomb them again. The problemwith that is we did was in
violation of the of what the UNis supposed to be about. They
didn't attack us. Iran was nevera threat to The United States Of
America as this as the secondguy pointed out correctly.
They did not have the capacityto hit us with any of these
(20:31):
weapons. They had the capacityto hit Israel. Yeah. I could see
why Israel wanted to attackthem. But we had absolutely no
issues with Iran.
I mean, they're a nuisance andthey they fund terrorism, so
it's not no issues, but theywere not a direct threat as a
nation to The United States OfAmerica or any of its citizens.
And we attacked them basicallyunprovoked on behalf of another
(20:54):
nation. When you talk about thenukes, by the way, Israel, as we
pointed out, Mr. Cho did, didn'tsign the test ban treaty. So
we're enforcing a nuclear treatyon behalf of a country who's not
even in the nuclear treaty.
It does not make any sense. Soto answer the actual question,
(21:14):
which is I think what you weretrying to do, anyone who says
this is World War three is beinghyperbolic. It's not World War
three. We've dropped one bomb.That's it.
Or 12 bombs, but you know what Imean. We had one bombing
campaign. If we stop there,they're gonna attack us back.
They're probably gonna make allof our gas cost a lot more, but
(21:35):
that's it. And then we let itgo.
If we don't let it go, if wedecide that we're gonna forcibly
reopen this from who's if wedecide that any attack on an
American after we attacked themfirst is gonna result in another
round of bombings, then itbecomes a problem. Because then
now we're actively engaged incombat. And besides that alone
(21:58):
being an issue, we were in thewrong to begin with. We attacked
them to begin with. They werenot a credible threat, as both
people that we just listened tohave stated.
But we attack them anyway. Thereis absolutely no reason for
that. And so, what I would sayto the people who are fear
mongering, stop. Because whatyou are doing is you are making
(22:21):
it harder for people understandthe gravity of what is actually
happening. It doesn't have to beWorld War three for this to be
in a bad situation forAmericans, for America, The
Middle East in general,etcetera.
But for the people who are goingway to make content, basically
trying to get as many clips asthe fearmongers, calling the
(22:42):
fearmongers ignorant orwhatever. I mean, listen. End of
the day, the silence makes thetanks roll faster. That's true.
It's always been true throughouthistory.
People not admitting whatthey're seeing with their own
eyes is how people continue totake advantage of other
(23:03):
countries, how wars continue tostart, and how Americans, be
they diplomats, soldiers, orcitizens, continue to die in
these far off places surroundedby people who they don't even
know. So I I just to me, I thinkwe need to be a little bit more
realistic about this. And, youknow, it's fine to have
(23:27):
optimism, but we can't bePollyanna about a freaking war
in The Middle East. Our entirechildhood, Matt, we've been at
war in The Middle East. Fouryears ago, we ended a war in The
Middle East, and now we arestanding at the precipice of yet
another war in The Middle East.
How many of these caskets haveto fly into DC every year over
(23:50):
nothing? Every single one ofthese wars has been for nothing.
We went to Iraq for no reason.And now, the same guy who is
critiquing everybody for doingthat, just bombed a country that
was basically so far out of ourleague. Like, it's insane how
not in our league Iran was.
(24:11):
So you if we wanna be real,let's be real. George Hafiz or
whatever his name is is right.Iran is not in our league. So
basically, we're the asshole whowalked up to the kid who can't
defend himself and kicked him inthe throat. And we did it
because our friends asked us to.
When did The United States starttaking orders from other people?
And yes, maybe there's no gonnabe any bombs falling here in,
(24:33):
you know, in DC where I live.Good. I'm glad. Personally, very
happy that I don't have to worryabout that.
That doesn't make it okay.That's not that's not where
we're drawing the line with. Oh,as long as no American on
American soil is going to behurt directly, all is well. No.
We should hold ourselves to abetter standard.
We wanna be the biggest, baddestcountry in the planet, we can do
(24:54):
that. But that comes with someresponsibility. It's
responsibility that ouradministration has advocated.
And frankly, as I've been seeingonline, more than half of the
American people have advocated,and it's disgusting. There you
Matt (25:09):
agree with you. And I said from the start, I don't wanna be
in this I don't want us to be inthis war either. And all I'm
just saying is, of course, it'sterrible and we have to live
with these problems of theMiddle East. And like you said,
we've grown up our whole livestalking about our tensions with
that whole region. And all Iwanted just to show again was an
(25:34):
alternative to the fearmongering, as you said.
And yeah, everyone's entitled totheir opinion on how they feel,
whether they're pro or againstwhat the Trump administration
decided to do and yeah, I agreewith you bro. I don't want this.
I didn't want this to be thisway. I didn't want to you know,
(25:55):
make another show out of thisout of this but it's in the
history books and I admire yourpassion and keep that going and
the only thing I also I wouldlike to ask is what solutions
can we come from here That's inyour opinion, you know, those
boxes has been opened. Fromhere?
So where do we go from here?
Ryan (26:18):
Yeah. From here, unfortunately, it's gonna
require American restraint,something we didn't display last
time. The answer has been thesame every time. If America
doesn't show, you know, show up,then it stays a regional
conflict in The Middle East. Endof conversation.
We showed up once. They're goingto do something to us. I think
(26:40):
it's I think it's insane. Thisis why mister mister Chu, I was
good with. It's insane topretend Iran is going to sit
down and let this happen.
Alright? They are a theocracy,meaning the supreme leader, the
Ayatollah, is a religious andgovernment figure. They are
basically a dictatorship in verymany ways. If he sits back and
(27:03):
does nothing, it's very likelythat his own people will get rid
of him. That's what happens whenyou when you rule that way, and
there's a couple people inWashington who might wanna take
notes about this just in casethey had any fun ideas.
When you rule through fear andpower, the only way you get out
(27:25):
of is in a body bag. So he can'tbe weak if he looks weak. And
yeah, we might kill him. Wedon't, they will. So he's going
to do something.
When that we'll have a choice tomake. Do nothing and say, that's
(27:47):
it. You took your best shot, itoff because you're tiny and
we're huge. Now come to thenegotiating table and get this
thing settled before it gets anyworse. Or what we will do
because of who we have incharge, we'll respond to that.
We'll escalate again. Andeventually, if you escalate
(28:09):
enough, someone else is gonnajump in. If not if for another
reason it's to stop theescalation because it's costing
them money or or manpower orwhatever. Someone is going to
jump in to stop the escalationif we decide to escalate with
somebody who can't even lace ourboots. It's that's the problem.
The only way out is restraint,and we can't expect the
(28:32):
Ayatollah to have restraint. Ifwe could, we wouldn't be in this
situation because he wouldn'thave been enriching uranium as
fast as he was. We can't askIsrael to show restraint
because, I mean, no offense toIsrael, they have never shown
any restraint. That is notsomething that they do. Right?
We are the only people at thispoint who are involved who can
(28:53):
show restraint and say enough.Not at gunpoint, not say enough,
you don't do anything and youmake peace or else. No.
Diplomacy by gunpoint neverworks. Threatening somebody into
the negotiating table is arecipe for them to break their
negotiation because you broughtthem there by gunpoint.
Of course, they don't they'renot into it. You forced it. We
(29:16):
are the ones who have to backdown now. We have to say, we
told you we could destroy yourbunker and we did. And when
after they hit us, that's whatwe have to continue to say.
We won't do it, and that's whythis is a problem. And I know I
would love to say we might doit. I thought we might. I
thought two weeks ago by and wewouldn't do anything. Genuinely,
I did.
I was kind of of the mind thatTrump wouldn't attack Iran
(29:38):
because, again, why? He doesn'tgive a shit.
Matt (29:42):
As in I thought it'd be easy ways we've seen so far in
the first five months of thisadministration that what is the
problem in the Trumpadministration for the week,
whether it's an ICE, whetherit's a list of problem. And then
that's how our minds would getoff it. But he did that two days
(30:03):
after we had the conversation.And
Ryan (30:05):
he always says that. He says two weeks, right? Because
he knows in two weeks time,we'll be talking about something
different. So he's like, yeah,two weeks, we'll come back to
it. Then he just I thought thiswas going to happen.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I thoughtthat's what was going to because
it's it's happened a milliontimes, and it's annoying. But it
wasn't war with Iran. But,obviously, on this particular
front, he decided not to dothat. And I have to take that to
(30:27):
mean that this he's seriousabout this.
Matt (30:29):
Yeah.
Ryan (30:29):
He does wanna attack them. And so I don't believe
Matt (30:32):
And there's plenty of contradictions to show from pre
president Trump tweets and allof that. But I think it just
shows and campaign promises,regarding not starting a war in
The Middle East. And, yeah, it'sjust if there's anything to
reflect on, just, you know,always take a grain of salt with
politicians. But, again, wateris wet. You should have seen
(30:53):
that coming anyways.
Ryan (30:54):
Well, yeah. But I I do think we should say this. Like,
politicians all lie. We've saidthat on this show, of course.
But a lot of times, if we talkabout this offline, those lies
are in service of like, I don'twant to say something that's I
hate this phrase.
It's a Trump phrase, but I'mgoing to use it. Directionally
true. Right? So Donald Trump,first time around, said, we're
gonna build a wall and Mexico'sgonna pay for it. Obviously,
(31:17):
that didn't happen.
The wall's not there. Mexico putup no money for the parts of the
wall that are there.
Matt (31:22):
However, we
Ryan (31:23):
did remember. Yeah, we all remember. And then they said
that we're not going to pay forit. He goes, now it's 10 feet
higher. And everybody lovedthat.
They cheered like it was theSuper Bowl. Anyway, my point is,
while we didn't build a wall, wedid put some of the toughest
immigration enforcementregulations ever. We did the
kids in cages, we separatedfamilies, all that stuff was
around that time period. Right?And then you go, Biden, he was
(31:46):
gonna get rid of student loandebt.
Well, I'm a student. I still gotloan debt. Didn't work. Yeah.
However, he did try and heexpanded the, you know, the
federal payoff for if you workin like a nonprofit or for the
federal government for fiveyears, six years, they'll pay
off however much.
He expanded programs off morepeople's debt. Did he cancel
(32:06):
debt promise? No. But it was hewas focused on trying to get rid
of student debt to some degree.Donald Trump in this pain said,
we are going to end the war inUkraine on day one.
Now, obviously, anyone whobelieved that his first in
office, he was going to end awar between Russia and Ukraine
is stupid. Sorry. But I'm gonnasay it. If you believed it'd
(32:29):
take one day to end a three yearconflict, you don't know what
you're talking about. However,the idea is had he been
following the normal pattern, hewould have been a pro peace
candidate, trying to end wars,trying to negotiate, trying to
be a stronger force in foreignpolicy.
This is the opposite of that. Hesaid he was going to fix the
(32:53):
problem with Israel in in Gaza.Not only is that not fixed, now
Iran is fighting in the MiddleEast. He said he was gonna fix
Russia and Ukraine. Not only isthat still going on, Russia's
ally in the Middle East just gothit by The US.
He did the opposite. It's onething not to do your promise.
It's another thing to do theopposite of what you promised.
(33:15):
And that to me is what'sannoying to me because it's not
because we're we're gonna paintit as all politicians lie. And,
yes, they do.
I agree. But, like, we should bejust clear about this. This is
not just, oh, he lied. Like, orno, he, you know, he made a
promise he couldn't keep. Heliterally did the opposite of
what he promised to do.
The opposite. Like, how do youhow do you trust a guy who does
(33:39):
the opposite of what theypromised? Not even you know what
I mean? I I don't know. I justdon't understand that everyone's
got all this faith in this manstill.
And I don't I don't understand.I get it. We all hated her. We
all hated Joe. Democrats suck.
I agree, frankly. But really? Westill trust this guy now? That
doesn't make a lot of sense tome.
Matt (33:59):
You know how the Colts are. Know how the Colts are. I
do think we had a this has beenquality and I do think we heard
various perspectives. Andwhether again you disagree or
not at the end of the day, allwe want is people to be safe and
(34:20):
have some diplomacy one way orthe other. So, I'm just going to
ask one more question, Ryan.
Is there anything else you wantto reflect on during this
matter? Because I do think we'reabout to hit the thirty minute
mark. I think it's good to leaveit right there.
Ryan (34:34):
I do want to say something very, very fast because I've
been super negative on thisshow, you've all heard. Thing
that is true Yeah. I know. Butone thing that's true and
remains true when I say it, whenmister Chu says it, when the
other dude says it, geopoliticsis messy and it's complicated.
(34:54):
I'm not a geopolitical expert.
I don't care what you teach inyour history class, you are not
a geopolitical expert. No onetalking on the Internet is a
geopolitical expert. The actualgeopolitical experts, you know
what they're not doing? Talking.Why?
Because it would right. Becauseit'd be a very, very bad idea
for them to start talkingbecause that's when, like,
(35:17):
military plans get leaked.Right? So I do think everyone
needs to keep that in mind. Wedon't no one knows how this will
all pan out.
Nobody. There is a world wherethe Ayatollah does nothing, and
his people might even deposehim, like I suggested. And then
someone else is in charge ofIran. Now we said that that's
(35:37):
not what we were trying to do.It might just happen anyway.
So I think it's important thatwe keep that, excuse me, keep
that in mind. That we can alltalk about what we think is
going to happen, but these arecomplex situations, sometimes
centuries in the making. And wehave to be open to the idea that
(36:00):
we don't know what we don'tknow. And if more people did
that, I think we'd be in a muchbetter spot than we are right
now. But while we can't stopother people from doing it and
ask our listeners to take astock of what they don't know
and understand that you can havean opinion, but it's not an
(36:22):
expert opinion just because youhad it.
I think that that's importantinformation that we this is a
complex issue and people aregonna get stuff wrong. I was I
was included.
Matt (36:36):
That's true. At the end of the day, just use your critical
thinking skills and use yourhead. That's all I have to say
with that and we're going towrap it up there. We have a
great week of shows, shows everysingle day of this week.
Obviously, this Monday, we onthis Monday, we have this
reaction, instant reaction.
(36:56):
Iran, United States attacksIran. Tweet cap Tuesday.
Wednesday, we have a sportstweet cap. Thursday, we have two
shows, an NBA draft first roundreaction, and we got a regular
tweet cap. Sorry, on Thursday.
(37:16):
And we have a magic mind specialepisode which you'll figure out.
We're gonna make it fun andpositive. Yeah. And then we have
a tweet cap on Friday. Thenwe're actually gonna take all
that next week off for thefourth of July holiday.
I hope you can enjoy that weekas much as you can. At least
this happened now, Ryan, not theweek off.
Ryan (37:36):
Yeah. And not not while we were trying to enjoy our
holiday. No. Yeah. I agree.
I thought for sure it was gonnahappen that week, to be honest
with you. So I was actuallywrong about that. If you listen
to definitely listen to ourepisode from But, yeah, I said
it was gonna happen that weekjust because we were trying to
take vacation. So littlevictories, right? We didn't have
(37:57):
to we don't have to come whilewe're, you know, away.
Matt (38:01):
The little victories indeed. But we'll see you
throughout the week. Stay safeout there. God bless. And, you
know, we're here for we're herefor our troops.
We're here supporting them mostof all
Ryan (38:13):
for everybody.
Matt (38:14):
They're affected the most. Yeah. It's everybody.
Ryan (38:16):
Yes.
Matt (38:19):
See you later.
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