June 25, 2025 • 57 mins
What does true educational leadership look like when equity remains at its heart for over 40 years? Lila Malarczyk OAM offers a masterclass in purposeful leadership that transforms lives and systems.
Growing up in western Sydney from a low socioeconomic background, Lila experienced firsthand how education could open doors—and how prejudice could try to close them. A defining moment came when, as a 17-year-old scholarship student, she confronted blatant discrimination from a university administrator. Rather than letting this experience diminish her, it fortified her resolve to create more just educational environments.
As principal of Marylands High School, Lila revolutionised community engagement. She invited cultural groups into meaningful dialogue, resulting in astonishing transformations—most notably reducing suspensions of Māori students from 93% to zero within a single year. Her radical reimagining of staff development days—where parents became the teachers and students orchestrated professional learning—flipped traditional power dynamics and created authentic school partnerships.
The data tells a compelling story: significant increases in HSC achievement, university acceptance rates tripling, and 62% of those students becoming first-generation university learners. Behind these numbers were innovative approaches like employing former students as paraprofessionals, creating visible success pathways for current students to aspire toward.
Now directing her passion toward the Public Education Foundation, Lila helps provide scholarships that transform lives—like Michael, who despite discovering his mother after suicide at age 12, went on with scholarship support to become a teacher himself. The Foundation also recognises often-invisible school support staff and provides learning opportunities for educators through prestigious programs.
What remains constant throughout Lila's 43-year journey is her unwavering belief that "every interaction matters" and that leadership is fundamentally about responsibility, not power. For new principals, she offers this wisdom: "You are never alone," while insisting students must remain at the centre of every decision.
Want to support equitable opportunities in education? Explore the Public Education Foundation's work and consider how you might contribute to their life-changing initiatives for students and educators alike.
Links referenced:
- New South Wales Primary Principals' Association: nswppa.org.au
- Public Education Foundation: publiceducationfoundation.org.au
- New South Wales Secondary Principals' Council: nswspc.org.au
- NSW Department of Education: education.nsw.gov.au
- New South Wales Teachers Federation: nswtf.org.au
- FranklinCovey Leader in Me: franklincovey.com.au/solutions/education/
- Harvard University: harvard.edu
Links and References:
To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning
To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Drew (00:00):
Welcome back to Professional Learning's, the New
South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
It's great to have your company.
This podcast aligns to thevalues of the New South Wales
Primary Principals Association,that is, the values of principal
wellbeing, principals as leadlearners, as well as supporting
principals to lead schooloperations.
(00:23):
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates.
Now let's get into today'slatest episode.
In this episode, we explore theexciting journey of Lila
Malarkic OAM, a distinguishedleader in public education.
We discover her work with thePublic Education Foundation that
(00:43):
she's leading.
We hear about her leadershipjourney and we discover her work
that she's leading with thePublic Education Foundation and
how it's shaking equitableopportunities for students and
educators alike.
Lila (00:54):
My name is Lilla Malarczyk .
My full name is LilianaMalarczyk.
Drew (00:59):
This is Lilla Malarczyk, OAM, a name synonymous with
public education leadership.
Is Lilla Malargic OAM, a namesynonymous with public education
leadership?
Lilla has served as a principal, a policy advisor, president of
the New South Wales SecondaryPrincipals Council and is a
system leader with the New SouthWales Department of Education.
But more than that, she's knownfor her heart, her voice, her
(01:20):
vision and, especially, forequity.
She once said leadership is notabout power, it's about
responsibility, it's about doingwhat's right for students, even
when it's hard.
Today we'll explore her storyand the powerful work of the
Public Education Foundation, anorganisation she champions.
And with that, welcome Lilla.
Lila (01:40):
Thank you so much, Drew.
Thank you for having me.
Drew (01:44):
Absolute pleasure.
Let's start from the beginning,and what inspired you to pursue
a career in education.
Lila (01:50):
Well, I don't want to just be repeating what people, what
teachers, normally say, but I amgoing to merge that in because,
it is true, inspiring teachersinspire more of us along the way
.
But if, drew, with yourpermission, if I could start at
the beginning of the end, whichsounds bizarre, but what I'm
(02:11):
saying is I'm in my 43rd year ofworking in and around public
education schools and I stillvalue every day and every
opportunity I have to contributeto the growth of students,
their opportunities, but alsoour colleagues in school and,
importantly, of course, oursystem.
(02:32):
So there's a whole lot ofthings that we do there and in
my current work life.
I am working with severaluniversities now.
I work as a lecturer, I workwith prac teachers, I work
running conferences ofprofessional learning at the
unis.
I do conferences with our union, I work as a principal in
(02:52):
residence with the system, doinga lot of projects such as the
HALT work and sometimes Dressfor Success, et cetera.
I do coaching and mentoring,and I mention that because this
is the pinnacle of having choicenow of where I am, but that I
have been inspired to continuethat work post what people often
(03:16):
call as the end of your career,and I am nowhere near it, but
I'm getting closer.
So what's inspired me?
Well, I believe what inspiredme 43 years ago still inspires
me now, and that is about makinga difference for everybody,
making a difference witheverybody, because we never work
(03:37):
in isolation, and I thinkthat's really important.
Education was exceptionallyhighly regarded and valued in my
home.
My mother and father bothregarded it quite strongly.
One of my parents and I don'tneed to differentiate had far
more opportunity in terms ofthat, and that was overseas,
where they were getting thoseopportunities.
(03:59):
My own experience at school Ihad teachers that inspired me.
They included all the differentlearners that we had.
They opened opportunities.
They gave more, it appeared,than some other teachers, but
that doesn't mean other teachersweren't good.
But I'm talking about theinspiration for going into
(04:20):
teaching.
They took a genuine interest ingetting to know the students,
and I don't just mean me, I meanthe cohort that we were in, and
I am going to name some peoplethat no one will know, but Mrs
Richardson, mrs Beckhouse, mrPerot, mr Norris, ms Bruehl.
Two of them have beenprincipals in SPC Ms Brown and
(04:41):
Mr Piggott.
They are some of the inspiringteachers that have given me or
platformed my career to date,which is great.
I also loved visual arts.
I love the history of visualarts and that's what hooked me
curriculum wise into our systemand what we do.
And I had the opportunity atthe school certificate level
(05:02):
which is quite different now towhat it was back then, but my
work was actually selected totravel around New South Wales.
I was lucky that I came firstin that and the reason I'm
saying that is because I alsocame from an exceptionally low
SES background.
Having that recognition, notjust for myself but for the
(05:22):
school, changed a whole lot offlavor of how I looked at
teaching and what we couldprovide for students, and I'll
speak about that later.
But the other thing thatinspired me to be a teacher was
some of the people I came intocontact with through education.
That actually wound peoplebecause they're not
inspirational, they're reallyhard and they can be quite
(05:46):
damaging, and I'll tell onestory later on.
Drew (05:49):
Yeah, please.
Lila (05:51):
It actually gave me strength that I didn't realize I
needed or wanted.
I will do it at the end of thisresponse, but I had a hunger
for learning.
My friendship group had ahunger for learning and the
teachers looked at us.
I know differently now and Iknow why.
To feed us Now.
(06:13):
At the time we were in year 10,and this is really giving me
historical context there was aCarmel report done in the USA
which was about working withchildren from low SES,
disadvantaged backgrounds, andthat was informing the way that
the teachers actually workedwith this particular cohort in
(06:34):
my group, which was fantastic.
And, to give an example, we hadover 300 students in year seven
when I went to year seven.
By the time I got to year 12,we had just under 100 students.
So you can see that thenutrition.
Drew (06:49):
There's a churn, absolute churn, yeah.
Lila (06:52):
I'll just tell you the story of Mrs South, which is the
person who attempted to woundme, and I'm sure she wounded
others, but this informed theway I work.
Three of us from our school,which was a great public
education school, got touniversity with scholarships.
You needed to be monitored ifyou had a scholarship.
Each scholarship student wascalled down one by one to Mrs
(07:16):
South's office so that she couldbegin the monitoring.
This is at university.
However, she called all threeof us down as a pack and I
started to think is this asocial experiment?
The first question to the threeof us we're all from the same
high school, all close friendswas and what does it feel like
(07:38):
for young people from thewestern suburbs to be attending
a tertiary education?
We are talking late 1970s.
She then turned to me and saidand you from another country,
you can see how things haveforged my, my work around equity
and wanting fairness andjustice for all so picking,
(07:59):
picking up on that where, wheredid you, what did you do with
that in terms?
Drew (08:04):
of that said totally, that seemed to be a pivotal moment
for you and what did you do withthat, with that?
Lila (08:12):
I was just turned 17.
My parents had always broughtme up to be polite but not step
back.
I stood up and I just said andhow does it feel to be so
bigoted and racist?
I left her office quietly.
I never up and I just said andhow does it feel to be so
bigoted and racist?
I left her office quietly.
I never returned and nor didshe ever call me down for any
(08:34):
monitoring.
But for me, I kept thinkingabout the sphere of influence
that I could take that furtherin a whole lot of contexts,
including having conversationswith my two friends who were
absolutely gobsmacked as well.
But it was much further thanthat.
But that really did inform howI worked in terms of students
that are not necessarily strong.
(08:56):
They're disenfranchisedcommunities, school communities
that we work with.
In terms of thatdisenfranchising, it was not
okay and I'm really strong whenI speak to pre-service teachers
about every interaction mattersand you don't wound anyone, be
really cautious of those sortsof things.
But they're just somereflections that I think helped,
(09:19):
informed and inspired me and itwas a marriage of those things.
But also, you know, my parentswere really strong on education
will open doors and openopportunities for you.
Drew (09:31):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing that, lilla.
That obviously has impacted andshaped all of your career and
understanding for thoselistening going up in terms of
the response.
You stood up to what stood foryour values and and shared that
as well.
(09:51):
So thank you for sharing thatit's and we we hope that that
doesn't occur in, you know, the2025, but in terms of what I've
heard, is just sticking to thosevalues and those principles
helps make the right decision.
Lila (10:06):
That's right.
No matter how awkward ordifficult it may be, we do need
to call out the inappropriate,the damaging, the hurtful.
Drew (10:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's move into what aprivilege in terms of sharing
that, and I can hear all of thethings that you have experienced
as well, and you sound very,very busy, but it doesn't sound
like work, it sounds like amission.
It sounds like you aresupporting colleagues in
(10:36):
different contexts stillsupporting principal colleagues,
as well as potentiallysometimes coming in and
relieving as a principal as well.
If we go to your role, where wego back to Maryland High School
, and that's a school that'sknown for its incredible
diversity, transformation underyour leadership.
What were some of thebreakthrough moments during your
(11:00):
time there?
Lila (11:00):
Drew, it's not going to surprise you that I am going to
tell you some stories that willbreak through moments, but I
would like to also start beingquite cheeky.
I'm just going to rattle off acouple of data information
because that's all part of thegreater picture in terms of tone
, culture and aspirations aswell for what we do.
(11:23):
So, and we used to do slices oftime it might be 12 months, it
might be 24.
And we just feed it back to thecommunity and to the staff
about how we're going on thingsand I'm not going to rattle off
the things that we needed tokeep working on, but the things
that we did, you know that wasreally quite good in a slice of
(11:45):
time.
That was around the early tomid-teens of 2012, 2013, et
cetera.
We had started to do a wholelot of equity work and we'd been
starting to get equity moneycoming in.
So some of the data is 8.3%improvement in achieving the
higher bands in the HSC, whichwas just absolutely so, that's
(12:07):
bands 5 and 6, and a 5.2% in themiddle bands of band 4 and
sometimes band 3.
There was a move from bands 1and 2 up into band 3.
That was 13% and whilst thatmay seem insignificant to many,
the actual impact on the schoolcommunity was pretty powerful to
(12:28):
see that things were climbingand students were achieving
Increase.
In the number of studentsactually wanting to do an ATAR
pattern of study, we had anincrease of 6% wanting to do
ATAR exams through VET, which isreally important.
We had 100% of students onindividual education plans.
(12:50):
Now, before everyone goes, wow,that's amazing, it was
ambitious and it probably wasn'tas strong as the statement
sounds, but the intent was toknow each student, so there were
those sorts of things we hadover a 24-month period two years
we had increased and these areimportant stats by 14%
(13:15):
assessment submission rates.
Now that's pretty powerful too,because you know that students
are now starting to be engaged.
We had 63% of our studentsaccepting tertiary or university
courses because a number ofdifferent equity programs and
funding and opportunities.
Now that trebled within twoyears.
(13:37):
Now that's powerful and themessage or the lens that goes
with that across the schoolcommunity is yes, we can, yes,
we are, we are doing thosethings.
62% of those attendinguniversity out of that, 63% were
first-generation universitylearners, which is pretty
(13:58):
powerful, and it goes withoutsaying that 100% were low SES.
We also had 59% of thosestudents attending had language
background other than Englishand 15% were refugee students,
which is pretty powerful.
I can go on and on, Drew, withdifferent data.
(14:18):
So we had incredible attendancerates moving up, which was
great over a period of time andwe did that by having programs,
but one of the most powerfulprograms was actually having
paraprofessionals, and this wasquite early in the case of
having paraprofessionals, butthere was, I guess, an unspoken
(14:39):
caveat.
They were university studentsneeding part-time work and they
were all students ex-MarylandsHigh School, so that our
students could see that it washappening for our community.
That that was one of the greatthings.
Drew (15:02):
Anyhow, there's a lot more those, those stats are amazing
and and how how do you, as theleader of the school, how do you
see that happening?
Like what do you put down tothose stats, those amazing
statistics?
What did you see internally atyour school, as a principal, to
(15:25):
make that happen?
Lila (15:26):
Oh, there were a whole lot of things that were happening
and I might speak about otherprograms later, but we had,
early in the piece, a communityof schools, before it was
actually labelled a community ofschools.
So we were already scoping,sequencing across six primary
schools and the secondaryschools as partners.
We were scoping and sequencingcurriculum delivery so there
(15:47):
wasn't repetition, there weren'tgaps.
We were doing those things.
We had the paraprofessionals.
We had expert subject teachersfrom the high school working
with expert, expert teachers,because that's what primary
school teachers are expertteachers working across
curriculum areas, sharingpedagogical skills, sharing
(16:10):
curriculum knowledge skills.
So those aspects were thenworking and being married across
there as well.
We had consistency, as much asyou ever can in a huge community
, in all our schools, whateversize, a much larger community
you'll be controlling but we hadconsistency of language, of
(16:30):
expectations in terms ofconditions to enable learning,
in expectation of understandingwhat assessment tasks could and
should look like for learningand feedback.
We worked across all thosecycles that you would have.
We had professional learning atthe forefront of most
(16:51):
gatherings of staff, so thestaff meetings didn't need to be
a list of people aren't wearingtheir uniforms, people aren't
you know those.
It was trying to be meaningfulas well as having the
communication.
But a huge aspect of this, Drew, was actually the fact that we
had parents, integral to thelearning as well, and their
(17:12):
contribution to the community,which I can give you so many
examples.
May I give you one story.
So this was in my first year,so it is going back before some
of the people online were evenborn.
Drew (17:28):
As principal, I love it.
We have a diverse audience.
Lila (17:32):
So with this the community engagement could be stronger
and have a different flavour toit, because there were so many
great things already happeningat the school and this was an
aspect that we needed to look at.
So I began having culturalgroups come to the school,
because the mix wasn't happeningin a comfortable way.
(17:53):
So in the first six months Ithink I had 48 different
community groups of parentsinviting them in.
Can you be raw and honest aboutwhat's not working for your
children, crumbs?
They were raw and honest.
I'm telling you that.
Now, if I had it for whatevercultural groups and I went from
the larger groups to the smallergroups, I would run those three
(18:15):
times a day, so in the morning,at lunchtime and at night.
So no parent could say to me Ican't make it.
If they genuinely wanted to bethere, I was going to make sure
that there was an opportunity todo it and we worked through a
whole lot of things.
Now, if I go to the group orthe Maori group as one example,
(18:36):
that got the momentum up first.
There were a whole lot of thingsthat we worked on.
The parents thought it would bereally good to have a focus
camp for their children, becausethe Maldon children or the
Maori children at that time didhave the poorest attendance and
anything that they wereexcelling at percentage-wise
were things that you don't wantthem to excel at percentage-wise
(18:58):
in terms of referrals.
So we ran camps.
Now the parents virtuallydesigned the entire camp, the
workshops.
Talking about culturalstereotyping, is that what you
want?
Learning your first well, notfirst language, but learning
your heritage language.
We had a whole lot of thingsworking on that how to actually
(19:19):
study, getting a goal setting,and the parents ran this.
I will say that the teachersdid all the paperwork because we
needed to make sure that riskassessments were done and we
just kept working and thecommunity were involved.
They were walking the school,doing things coming in, you know
, with food, with music, withfocus, with language.
(19:41):
They would take them toMcDonald's to order Big Macs in
Maldi, like it was just magic.
And this is one of the stats ofthat.
The first year that I arrived,93% of long suspensions at the
school were the Maori boys,which is, you know,
(20:01):
disproportionate, to say theleast.
Drew (20:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Lila (20:04):
And have some sort of recognition.
The next year it was Zippo likein the following year, after
pretty intense work, and we didthis tailored as parent and
student felt for different.
You know the Arabic community,you know we had a little bit of
a French community then, etcetera.
We did it for everyone.
There was more intensity insome areas and it did have a lot
(20:27):
to do with parent buy-in, butthat was just magic, that stat.
Drew (20:32):
Absolutely yeah.
Lila (20:33):
And it sent a message to everyone, not just to one
cultural group.
I will tell you, drew, by theend of the year we did have all
the groups coming together asone Marylands High School
community, by the way.
It didn't remain that way, butwe needed to open the door.
Drew (20:50):
What a powerful story in terms of you coming through as a
leader that uses data andreally interrogates that data to
find the problem.
And then what I heard furtheris you unpack that data to see
how, in the problem you'retrying to solve as a leader,
what you could do to unravelthat problem of 93% of long
(21:14):
suspensions, which is just andthen you unpack that, you really
unpack that further to see,well, why are the students
behaving that way?
Incorporated what I heard isincorporated programs really
made sure those participants orthe families were feeling
included.
You really brought that in andthen celebrated that success.
(21:36):
How did you get the team as theleader, lilla, in to have that
same motivation and that visionyou had?
Lila (21:43):
I'm going to start with.
It was kind of easy.
Drew (21:46):
Okay.
Lila (21:47):
They felt it was the right time for this particular
direction to come in.
We actually had harmony days,as everyone does Sorry, that's
not unique, everyone has thatand so there were already once a
year, on one day a year already, teachers were working with one
(22:09):
particular cultural group.
So we all we had a semi contactthat was coming.
But when we started to have so,you know, with the group and
with the arabic group, thoseparticular teachers were ongoing
and pretty excited when theycould see the buy-in of
conversation that was happeningwith the parents in the school
(22:30):
and there were students thatalways attended.
Also, if I could just say,whenever we have an event, it
was never a parent night or astudent night or a teacher night
, it was a school night or aschool event, and that means
students, teachers and parentsalways the same as our school
development days were alwaysthat the three.
Drew (22:53):
So, anyhow, Okay, so just to clarify that, you mentioned
staff development days, so youincorporated your community in
that as well.
Tell us further, yeah.
Lila (23:04):
Okay, so every school development day the invitation
went out to every student.
Can I just tell you I didn'tneed to do crowd control with
that, but they were there, theinvitation was there and
invitation went to every parentas well.
Every school development day wewould tell them what we're
going to talk about.
(23:24):
We would suggest if you don'tcan't give the whole day,
because that would be their wayto come for an hour or not, you
can come for just sections of it.
Here's when lunch is on,morning tea.
This is the keynote.
This is when you'll beworkshopping.
But I'm going to take it onestep further.
Drew now, any story I tell isgoing to either be a one-off or
(23:46):
a series, and you know I'm notgoing to go into everything, but
we had a school development daythat became a model for other
local schools, where the onlypresenters were parents for the
day and it was almost likemasterclasses and it was
speaking to if students turnedup, but also to the staff the
(24:07):
cultural sensitivities or lifeat home, what it was like, what
the impact of different things.
And I mean, you know, somecultures have Saturday and
Sunday church requirements.
Some don't have access to sadly, electricity all the time or to
laptops.
This is those sorts of things.
(24:27):
So to talk about that, whatdoes it mean to be part of the
church?
Well, it means Saturday andSunday, apart from football
they're at, they can't dohomework, those sorts of things.
What are the behaviouralaspects?
And we did that for just aboutany group we could think of.
It didn't have to be a culturalgroup, might have been some
other understanding around that.
(24:47):
That was that, and it was sowell received by the parents,
but also by the teachers, whohad an understanding and a
connection with parents they'dnever had before.
We ran another and I know I wasthere for a long time, so we
should have done one or two likethis.
There was another schooldevelopment day where we
actually worked with 16 localschools and the day was
(25:11):
orchestrated, supported byteachers, but orchestrated by
students only in terms of theirwellbeing.
Teachers did assist thembecause they were doing things
like organising what workshopscould look like for teachers and
parents, what data needed to becollected prior, there were
different surveys done, so wehad all of that, but the
(25:32):
students ran the delivery of theschool development day on
wellbeing about students andwhat they Wow in terms of the.
Drew (25:40):
You've totally flipped the in terms of the.
You've totally flipped themodel in terms of what actually
Staff Development Day would andshould feel and sound like.
You gave your parents a voice,you gave your students a voice
and autonomy as well, and it'sthat whole handing and the
benefit is for the educators,for the teachers at your school,
(26:02):
to understand the context inwhich they're working upon.
So that would have been anexciting opportunity.
Yeah, some of those stories areso powerful and also possibly
first time in terms of no oneelse was doing that or were you
aware of other schools doingthat practice?
Lila (26:20):
I wasn't aware, and it was way back when Drew.
Drew (26:24):
Yeah.
Lila (26:25):
Yeah.
Drew (26:25):
Well, tell us way back when.
What are we talking?
How long ago?
Lila (26:29):
I began as a principal in 2002 and then I moved into a
director's role at the end of2016.
Drew (26:39):
Okay, yeah, at the end of 2016.
Okay, yeah.
So quite very forefront interms of that thinking and also
because of that thinking andleadership, were the team with
you.
Lila (26:50):
I just wanted to say I wanted to.
It wasn't my only leadership,it was a team.
Absolutely it was a team, and Idon't mean only executive or
senior executive.
I have some pretty powerfulleaders throughout the staff
community but also throughout,you know, the parent community
(27:11):
and the students.
I can tell you amazing storiesabout the students running
professional learning acrossAustralia in terms of advising
teachers on how to best usetechnology with teenagers.
You know we can talk aboutthose sorts of things.
It's just incredible things.
But teachers in their firstyear and teachers in their 30th
(27:33):
year running professionallearning in their second year
across schools and across ourstate.
And if I could just say and Iwon't go into this, but the
project I spoke about, where wedid scope and sequence of
curriculum, we had teachers thatwere magnificent and had never
spoken at a staff meeting everbefore were now running multiple
(27:58):
school professional learning.
So the leadership was there.
I guess it's a matter ofsharing with everyone.
You are a leader, which I don'twant to sound corny because we
always say everyone's a leaderand there's an amazing story
that's been documented a fewplaces you choose to opt out of
leadership, as far as I'mconcerned, and you don't get to
(28:21):
choose to opt in.
That's what I would havethought was best for our school
community and just the mostmagnificent staff there, and I
know everyone says that, butmine was the best.
Drew (28:33):
Well, you could see that, going back to the start of your
education story, you could seethat ethos shone through and I
could hear that you were goingto make sure all of those that
you supported as a leader, as aneducator, were able to shine
with their best ability in termsof making students to be
(28:56):
leaders, which is a piece of ifI indulge, similar to one of our
pieces with Leader and Me,through Franklin Covey, and an
opportunity to share as amultiplier, so to speak.
You saw the genius really inothers that they could shine
through.
Lila (29:13):
Thank you, can I say.
One of the highlights for mewas when two of my students who
had been incredible leaders atthe school were then at uni.
They're both lawyers in socialjustice now, but they they
approached me to present attheir professional learning, so
I was being hired by my.
(29:34):
I just love that whole cyclehow good is that full?
Cycle.
It was grand, it was grand.
Drew (29:41):
So then, if we move into obviously had fantastic success
results at Maryland High School,tell us about your role.
You moved into the presidentrole of the New South Wales
Secondary Principal Council andyou became a voice for school
leaders across New South Wales.
Can you tell us what are someof the pressures and privileges
of this position?
Well, everything's a privilege.
I know that sounds cheesy.
School leaders across New SouthWales.
Can you tell us what are someof the pressures and privileges
(30:02):
of this position?
Lila (30:03):
Well, everything's a privilege.
I know that sounds cheesy.
I'll get back to that.
Can I just start from?
It was an understanding of whatthe role was and I've mentioned
earlier in our discussion aboutthe sphere of influence and
understanding what the sphere ofinfluence is going to be in
that role and for what purpose,and that my actions and my words
(30:25):
were actually going to beprecedents for any future
decisions that were going to bemade on behalf of the
association.
So that was a pretty powerfulresponsibility because it would
be an immediate influence andthen a longer-term influence and
I really wanted to make surethat I got that right, which I'm
about to reference.
(30:46):
But it's also the perception ofour system.
As the current presidents know,it's at a state level.
How is the associationperceived by sharing that
understanding of what the voiceis?
But it goes further, because Idid have the privilege of
working nationally andinternationally on behalf of the
(31:07):
associations, but also of thesystem.
So you need to be reallycautious.
It's a real strongunderstanding of knowing what is
right for all in ourassociation, or for as many as
you can in terms of schoolleaders, but colleagues as well
in our system, for our studentsand school communities and, as I
(31:28):
said, you can't step back fromit.
You've got to call out thingsas they arrive.
Don't massage the message.
You know that, that old saying.
You can't do that, no, and youhave to be the voice
representing members.
and how do you know that?
That old saying you can't dothat, no, and you have to be the
voice representing members.
And how do you know what thevoice is if you don't go and
seek it?
(31:48):
It's not a matter of listeningto those who want to share it,
which is great.
You listen to that, but youneed to go and seek the voice
from those who haven't beensharing, and I guess it's a
similar ethos to generatingleaders you know from the school
community and then feeding backto the members what you are
(32:09):
representing, why you'rerepresenting it.
This is the information you got, so I'll just oh, no long intro
.
Drew (32:17):
No, no, but it's also important to understand.
That's what we're.
As you said, it's a privilegedbut understanding that, putting
yourself into people, listening,what is it like to be in that
position?
Lila (32:29):
In that context because Lilla was from Marylands High.
I was a principal of a largesuburban school.
How am I going to know whatGrant out near Broken Hill
really needs?
I'm not to make that assumption.
And the executive?
We're not to make thatassumption.
(32:49):
We have to be informed.
So the privilege was you know,knowing that and, as I said, the
representation, and on theglobal stage as well, which was
pretty good.
But the privilege was alsobeing able to inform, maybe help
block some of those decisionsthat weren't going to work well
for schools and for schoolleaders.
(33:11):
You don't always get thatprivilege, but you do get the
privilege to say quite firmlywhat you believe.
The pressure I don't want toand I've said this before, I
don't want to be too cheesy, butI darn well loved being a
principal and I loved being thepresident of SPC.
So the pressure that I guess Idid feel was that I was and I
(33:32):
remained active principal whilstI was the president.
Drew (33:36):
So my office was at Mary Lane Right.
You acted as a principal aswell as okay.
Lila (33:41):
However, I did have.
My two incredible deputies wereco-principals, because there
were times when I could not beat Maryland's high school.
We get that, we're not going topretend that that's not the
case and we worked as a trio.
Thank goodness for mobilephones at that point.
We would Any staff member thatwent to one, two or three of us
(34:04):
would get the same response.
We kept tight aboutexpectations, what we thought
was best, et cetera, et cetera,and honestly, we would be
texting all day.
I'd be sitting in a bridgestreet where it was.
Then you know, oh, this is whatI think, blah, blah, blah.
So the pressure was, I guess,making sure there's
communication.
But time and emotion is for me,I think, was the biggest,
(34:29):
because you can't be emotionalpublicly in your role.
I mean, I think you can beexcited and enthusiastic, but
you can't be emotional about awhole lot of things.
And time is really important.
And I'll give you anotherlittle story.
Someone who was in a remoteschool emailed me, I can't
remember, four or five o'clockin the morning on a Saturday,
(34:50):
really distressed.
It was a principal.
They needed something.
Of course I responded in thenext one minute because I would
have alerts coming through,because I did and I do
thoroughly believe you've got tobe available.
If you take on the job, you'vegot to do the job is how I feel
and that principle to this daywill remind me and I don't
(35:14):
remember the actual phone callor anything.
I did phone him immediately andhe implied that it wasn't as
drastic as life-saving, but itpretty much put him back in a
safe zone for the rest of theweekend and he said I didn't
ever expect that, but howimportant it was that I was
available.
Drew (35:35):
Yeah.
Lila (35:36):
You know I could speak a whole lot more about everything.
As you've worked out, drew, Icould speak for hours.
Drew (35:40):
I could speak a whole lot more about everything as you've
worked out, drew.
I could speak for hours, ohwell, but in just understanding
what the role is and what areyou proudest of in terms of
taking on that position as thesecondary president of the New
South Wales, secondary PrincipalCouncil, I think we had
incredible working relationshipsand it still happens PPA, spc
(36:03):
and Teachers' Fed.
Lila (36:05):
We're pretty united in most aspects of our thinking and
I think that trustedrelationship was pretty powerful
when we disagreed and go figure, there were times when we
disagreed.
There was never a publicconflict ever between the three.
I'm really proud of that andhow we worked around those
(36:26):
aspects.
I'm really proud of a number ofprograms and reforms that we
worked on.
So if I give an example ofgreat teaching inspired learning
I think that was prettypowerful and that was the
department and the alliance, asit was called then working
together.
That was pretty amazing workingon that and making sure we were
(36:49):
getting as much resourcing aswe could to support new teachers
to the system or new teachersto their new context as well,
which was pretty powerful.
There were a whole lot of otherreforms that, maybe with less
success, but the fact that wewere all at the table working
(37:09):
really strongly was terrific.
Yeah in terms of SPC, I think wedid some pretty marvellous work
, developing things and you know, been a series of great
presidents.
I at that time worked primarilywith Jeff Scott and a little
bit with Jim Cooper, mauryMulherrin, but also working with
the department Amazing, amazingteam of educational leaders
(37:34):
which everyone was yeah, andit's great that the system, you
know, our department now hasanother educational leader
working together usingeducational language.
Drew (37:44):
Yeah.
Lila (37:45):
You know, yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Drew (37:46):
Yeah, terrific, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, yeah, terrific.
Let's turn to the PublicEducation Foundation now, an
organisation that provideslife-changing support for
students and educators.
What led you to be involvedwith that organisation?
Lila (38:03):
Well, if only you should ask what led to it, drew, in
2008, I think is when it began,the then president, jim McAlpine
, a very, very, very dear friendof mine, asked me if I'd go
along to a meeting that was thePublic Education Foundation.
So I've actually been in someform married to it since then,
but in my alleged retirementyears I've become a director,
(38:27):
which is great, but I've alwaysbeen on the panels doing
voluntary work, doing mentoring,giving advice well actually and
also trying to get sponsorshipand funding for the scholarships
.
So, yeah, well, and I believewholeheartedly in public
education that, along withhealth, is the health of our
(38:49):
nation, so to speak.
Drew (38:51):
And what's some of the stories that you've seen through
the Public Education Foundation?
Lila (38:56):
I'm going to begin with a statement.
There are so many volunteersand many of them are retired
principals and we might have 50or 60, sometimes there's
hundreds of applications andthey're based on the greatest
need and I don't think we'veever seen an application where
there is no need but there'slimited funding.
(39:16):
If I could just explain that,there have been times with panel
members, strong principalleaders in their work life, who
have actually had to stop anddebrief because of the stories
they're reading that thechildren have shared with us, in
need of getting some additionalfunding.
So I'm going to just speakabout Michael and I don't need
(39:39):
to say where he's from, but I doknow Michael.
He was a young Aboriginalstudent.
At school he put in for ascholarship, vision impairment,
exceptionally low SES and livedoff country.
He actually came home to findhis mother after a successful
suicide and he was 12 years old.
(39:59):
You know it's a prettyincredible, horrible context and
he had mental health issuesthat were as a result of that no
self-esteem whatsoever.
I guess no focus in life.
He sometimes spoke aboutwanting to be a teacher.
He was put in for a scholarship.
He got a scholarship, he wentto university.
(40:22):
He's out there now teaching andworking on the cycle.
Now that's a pretty powerfulstory amazing yeah, and I I can.
You know, I can speak aboutLayla, who was a bright girl,
but school wasn't working forher.
She needed some additionalsupport.
So she got a scholarship duringhigh school and then a
(40:42):
scholarship to move intotertiary and you need to get the
grades like a scholarshipdoesn't guarantee a placement.
So she worked through all ofthat and started doing
industrial design, which wasfantastic.
Didn't actually feel fulfilled,but she could go and change
courses because she had thescholarship.
And then she did and may havespoken about this girl then
(41:06):
became a lawyer of socialjustice Wow, and there's so many
other stories, like Barrow, whois a friend of the board.
She was from a school and shecouldn't afford to go to
university.
She used the scholarship moneyto work with a group that
(41:28):
actually got her an internshipduring her university, which
then turned into a full-timeemployment.
She is thriving just beingpromoted, promoted, promoted.
She was a refugee, came out inyear 10, could hardly speak
English from Syria.
Story after story after story.
Drew (41:48):
It can see the hook, yeah, and the motivation and the why
of what it say this not verylightly.
It truly does change people'slives.
Lila (42:01):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely .
As does every great educatortoo in our public education
system.
Every interaction is going tojust help them grow and grow
absolutely yeah can.
Can I speak about theopportunities for teachers?
Drew (42:17):
I was about to go there.
So yeah, please, please do,yeah.
So tell us further about theopportunities, for we've heard
about the amazing life-changingexperiences for students, but
Public Education Foundation alsosupports teachers as well as
leaders in the system.
Can you tell?
(42:38):
Us further about thescholarships for those
participants.
Lila (42:41):
Yes, so for mid-career and early career teachers, there
are scholarships for them topursue their learning.
So they will apply and I thinkit's about 10,000 and they might
itemise what they want to do.
So it might be I want to dothis particular degree at Sydney
University or whatever it is,or I want to go and study in
(43:01):
Canada for, you know, a monthdoing this course or visiting
these schools, and they makeapplications, which is pretty.
So, you know, meeting theirneeds through the requirements
and the regulations that we havetoo, that's something.
There's also a STEM scholarshipfor teachers and principals who
are totally committed or wantto focus and grow more on the
(43:24):
STEM aspect, and the Harvardscholarships there's four a year
.
It is national.
I have not spoken with aprincipal who has not just been
blown away would be the only wayto describe their learning
experience in Harvard, andthere's pre-learning courses
(43:45):
that you can do as well.
But if I talk about some that Iknow as very, very dear friends
and some of them are on theirsecond or third principalship
the learning at Harvard affirmedtheir thinking and their
beliefs and informed it more andgave them courage to do
particular paths, and one ofthem is actually working with
(44:05):
the department, of course, ondifferent curriculum provision
aspects that they might do,because they're in a new build
so they get to do all thatlearning and bring it into
reality.
Yeah, which is great.
The last thing that is notabout scholarships but I think
is equally important is that PEFworks with the department, or
(44:29):
rather works with the departmentbecause they're the
department's awards.
About recognition of parents,SAS staff, business managers,
SAMs, CEOs, curriculum supportofficers, GAs, to be recognised
in the system.
May I just say the impact ofthat that you're because it
(44:49):
doesn't happen much.
Many of these people areinvisible in the system.
Let's be honest To have yourgeneral assistant or your
teacher in food tech, assistantin food tech to be recognised
for going above and beyond whichthey nearly all do is just
phenomenal for the schoolcommunity, but for the esteem of
(45:12):
everyone involved in thatprovision of work within our
system, it's pretty powerfulstuff too.
Drew (45:19):
So it's embracing all I've heard, obviously, students.
It's embracing families,changing lives.
It's supporting educators,teachers through to principals,
but, as I said, the invisiblevoice, but all those people in
the system ground assistants,food tech assistants, teachers'
(45:44):
aides all recognised.
So how to say the pitch?
How do people get involved inthis amazing organisation?
Or they're thinking this isamazing and what?
Lila (45:57):
can they do, please?
Well, may I just firstly alsosay that the PPA and SPC are
partners with the PublicEducation Foundation, which is
fabulous, and of course, theDepartment of Education and
Teachers Federation and a reallystrong partners.
And it's not New South Walescentred, it's national, but of
(46:18):
course New South Wales-basedsponsors.
It goes towards New South Walesrecipients.
How can people get involved?
Well, there's a whole lot aboutadvocacy that we do and we
actually have resources forschools to use it for different
community events.
So I guess you know.
So spreading the word there,applying for scholarships and
(46:41):
recognition, is pretty powerful,because when the team goes out
to speak to philanthropicpossibilities, to say that you
know there were 200 applicantsjust for this one and we could
only fund 50, your help, becausethey want to give money, they
(47:01):
want to know that there's a needfor it.
That's another way.
Certainly, if anyone wants toput their hand in their pocket,
they're more than welcome,because we do have many
colleagues in our system thatwill do different contributions
as well.
They can volunteer to be panelmembers and so forth.
There is quite a lot that canbe done and absolutely happy to
(47:24):
send information, resources,links for you, drew, to put at
the end of the call Absolutely,we can definitely put that in
our notes as well for peoplefurther information.
Drew (47:35):
There'll be links in our show notes as well that we can
explore for for participants.
It sounds like a trulylife-changing organization and I
can see the motivation thatyou're involved with this
amazing organisation.
Lila (47:51):
It is, and wouldn't it be great, drew, if there wasn't a
need for it.
Drew (47:55):
Yeah.
Lila (47:55):
But it has been a great win for public education in
recent days.
Yes, they have indeed.
Drew (48:02):
Still celebrating that success, as we call it,
colleagues, literally after thenew labor government was
successful federal laborgovernment was successful over
the weekend look in terms ofreflection and let's go to our
reflections and future focus.
If you look back on everythingyou've done, from the classroom
(48:23):
to in your role of seniorleadership, what are you most
proud of?
Lila (48:27):
Oh gosh, I believe some of the examples I used as a
principal earlier, some of thestories talking about the
leadership.
I think I've actually practicedthat ethos throughout my career.
So when I was a head teacher andI'm saying this because I am
proud of, I think, theleadership legacy I have left
(48:49):
and I think I have left placesbetter I'm not saying great, I'm
not pretending to be but therecognition of people, the
leadership of people, I think,is pretty powerful.
As I was saying, when I was ahead teacher, I just made up
this role but it was to giveevery student recognize and this
was a really low SES,disenfranchised school that
(49:13):
every student that year would berecognised on morning assembly.
Throughout the year Everyteacher was recognised and just
about every parent that camethrough was recognised.
So I think recognition isreally important.
I used to write letters toevery teacher in my school at
the end of the year sayingthanks, we've had a great year,
(49:35):
and I'd put in some of the data,which was general, and then I'd
say thanks for being the tenniscoach, thanks for being the
chess, because I knew what theywere doing, because it was so
important for the community.
But it's important for peopleto be recognised for what?
they do.
So I kind of think those sortsof things in terms of it are
(49:56):
great, but recognising leaders,yeah, and letting them fly,
because I don't know everythingby a long shot, but letting them
fly and then telling me whatI'm not doing as well as I could
, those sorts of that opennessis pretty important and changes
the complexion of the immediatecommunity, but also their next
(50:18):
context and my next context too,anyhow that's just.
Drew (50:22):
That's terrific.
I mean, how inspiring for thoselistening going.
Geez, I wish you could havebeen my principal.
Lila (50:28):
I'd just also say for everyone listening, I'm pretty
sure there are a couple ofpeople that would say the
opposite too.
Drew (50:34):
Okay, Always humble and grounded.
A few more questions before wefinish.
What gives you hope?
Lila (50:40):
So we've got another hour, because I can keep talking.
Drew (50:44):
Oh look, we could, we could.
We're wrapping up, though.
Lilla, I love how yourenthusiasm and the stories you
could share numerous storieswhat gives you hope for the
future of public education inNew South Wales?
Lila (50:59):
I work with pre-service teachers a lot multiple hundreds
every year now and I work withnot that many principals
multiple hundreds but manyForty-three years in schools and
around schools.
I'm really happy to say thateverything that has been
important throughout those fourdecades is maintained.
(51:20):
It looks different, teachinglooks completely different.
I get all of that, but theprinciples of what we do remains
the same that we want to do theright thing by that student, by
that student, by that student.
We want to help the families dothe right thing by those
students, because that's areally powerful thing that
(51:40):
parents all want the best fortheir children.
They don't necessarily knowwhat that looks like they just
don't understand that.
So I really see that thingshaven't changed in terms of
commitment generally across oursystem.
People go into it for the rightreasons and just get better at
(52:02):
it for the right reasons, whichis pretty fantastic.
The unrelenting commitment toteaching and learning, the fact
and I'm not meaning to criticiseanyone, but the joy of having
educational leaders at the topagain changes the conversation
to where it should beRecognising the workload and the
(52:26):
respect that teachers shouldhave being paid the largest
salary in the nation and thingscontinuing Working significantly
now to change the workload.
I'm not saying it's great, it'snot finished, there's so much
more to do, but that's certainlysome of the great things.
That gives me hope for it forthe future, because we're always
(52:47):
looking for better practice.
I don't believe there is bestpractice, Drew, so I never use
that term for better practice.
Collaboration is a whole newgame in the world of technology
and we do that much better andthat's going to continue.
But it's got its drawbacks aswell, as we know the support I
always say if I can just throwthis in here anyone in our
(53:10):
profession is not alone, and Ithink that's a really powerful
thing, and I think they are lessalone now than they ever have
been.
And you know, we've got ourassociations, we've got our
networks, we've got our unions,we've got outside networks, all
those sort of aspects.
Drew (53:26):
Why are they so important?
Why do you think thoseorganisations are so important?
Lila (53:31):
Well, apart from giving voice, it's the actual, it's the
collaboration, it's thedebriefing, it's reframing
issues of concern, because wecan't live complaining about
things.
We've got to contribute togetting the answer or improving
things, and working together isa much smarter way of doing that
(53:52):
.
And the voice of SPC and PPAhave been, and continue to be,
pretty powerful and respectedand that is really important.
Leadership of schools, for allschools and for the schooling
system in itself, those sorts ofthings are happening and I do
think there's a reset startingand there's a lot of reset to be
(54:13):
done, but it gives me hopebecause the reset is willingly
being done by the leaders of thesystem, the associations, the
union, profession, whatever youwant, but it's being reset by
educators who have a deepunderstanding and a deep want to
make the future always betteryeah, well said, lila.
Drew (54:36):
Before we finish, we ask guests what would you say to a
first year principal walkinginto their school tomorrow?
Lila (54:44):
okay, it's like I can't answer you straight.
I would say the same thing to afirst-year principal that I
would say to a beginning teacheror to someone in their new role
I'm so excited for you is thefirst thing I would say, because
I think it is always exciting.
But then I'd go through a wholelot of things like you are
never alone, please, don't thinkyou are alone.
(55:06):
And I think principals goingpeople go into the principalship
thinking they're alone.
My goodness, I had the bestsenior executive team.
I have the best then and now,principal friends who are very
deep and important.
You've got the association, soyou're not alone.
Students have got to be at thecenter of every decision.
(55:27):
I'm just going through a wholelot of things that everyone
knows, but everything else willfollow from that.
Like how do you support yourteachers?
How do you grow their capacity?
And it comes from students areat the centre.
How do you work with thecommunity there?
Yeah, there are a whole lot ofother things Communication,
communication, communication.
(55:47):
And I'm going to say youcommunicate up and you
communicate across.
I do not believe in the termcommunicate down.
If you're in a school, you'rewith your colleagues.
Policy, policy, policy.
Don't take a shortcut ever.
Don't ever do that.
If you don't like the policy,then put yourself in a position
where you can help change orinform that policy change, but
(56:11):
don't make yourself or othersvulnerable.
There's a whole list.
I could.
Drew (56:15):
I could do a whole workshop on this Drew I'm sure
you think I have but yeah, I wasgoing to say I'm sure you have
or you you're in the process ofdoing so yeah, so much knowledge
.
It's a privilege to speak toyou.
Your generosity, yourleadership, your fierce belief
in public education has comethrough so strongly.
The work that you're doing withthe Public Education Foundation
(56:38):
is truly inspirational.
Thank you for joining us forthis powerful conversation.
Thank you.
Lila (56:44):
Thank you, Drew.
Drew (56:47):
Well, thanks for joining us on the New South Wales PPA
Professional Learnings forEducational Leaders.
I'm Drew Janetsky.
If a little of this insight hasresonated with you, consider
exploring the Public EducationFoundation initiatives at
publiceducationfoundationorgau.
Stay inspired and keep leadingwith purpose.
Thank you.
Welcome back to Professional Learning's, the New
South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
It's great to have your company.
This podcast aligns to thevalues of the New South Wales
Primary Principals Association,that is, the values of principal
wellbeing, principals as leadlearners, as well as supporting
principals to lead schooloperations.
(00:23):
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates.
Now let's get into today'slatest episode.
In this episode, we explore theexciting journey of Lila
Malarkic OAM, a distinguishedleader in public education.
We discover her work with thePublic Education Foundation that
(00:43):
she's leading.
We hear about her leadershipjourney and we discover her work
that she's leading with thePublic Education Foundation and
how it's shaking equitableopportunities for students and
educators alike.
Lila (00:54):
My name is Lilla Malarczyk .
My full name is LilianaMalarczyk.
Drew (00:59):
This is Lilla Malarczyk, OAM, a name synonymous with
public education leadership.
Is Lilla Malargic OAM, a namesynonymous with public education
leadership?
Lilla has served as a principal, a policy advisor, president of
the New South Wales SecondaryPrincipals Council and is a
system leader with the New SouthWales Department of Education.
But more than that, she's knownfor her heart, her voice, her
(01:20):
vision and, especially, forequity.
She once said leadership is notabout power, it's about
responsibility, it's about doingwhat's right for students, even
when it's hard.
Today we'll explore her storyand the powerful work of the
Public Education Foundation, anorganisation she champions.
And with that, welcome Lilla.
Lila (01:40):
Thank you so much, Drew.
Thank you for having me.
Drew (01:44):
Absolute pleasure.
Let's start from the beginning,and what inspired you to pursue
a career in education.
Lila (01:50):
Well, I don't want to just be repeating what people, what
teachers, normally say, but I amgoing to merge that in because,
it is true, inspiring teachersinspire more of us along the way
.
But if, drew, with yourpermission, if I could start at
the beginning of the end, whichsounds bizarre, but what I'm
(02:11):
saying is I'm in my 43rd year ofworking in and around public
education schools and I stillvalue every day and every
opportunity I have to contributeto the growth of students,
their opportunities, but alsoour colleagues in school and,
importantly, of course, oursystem.
(02:32):
So there's a whole lot ofthings that we do there and in
my current work life.
I am working with severaluniversities now.
I work as a lecturer, I workwith prac teachers, I work
running conferences ofprofessional learning at the
unis.
I do conferences with our union, I work as a principal in
(02:52):
residence with the system, doinga lot of projects such as the
HALT work and sometimes Dressfor Success, et cetera.
I do coaching and mentoring,and I mention that because this
is the pinnacle of having choicenow of where I am, but that I
have been inspired to continuethat work post what people often
(03:16):
call as the end of your career,and I am nowhere near it, but
I'm getting closer.
So what's inspired me?
Well, I believe what inspiredme 43 years ago still inspires
me now, and that is about makinga difference for everybody,
making a difference witheverybody, because we never work
(03:37):
in isolation, and I thinkthat's really important.
Education was exceptionallyhighly regarded and valued in my
home.
My mother and father bothregarded it quite strongly.
One of my parents and I don'tneed to differentiate had far
more opportunity in terms ofthat, and that was overseas,
where they were getting thoseopportunities.
(03:59):
My own experience at school Ihad teachers that inspired me.
They included all the differentlearners that we had.
They opened opportunities.
They gave more, it appeared,than some other teachers, but
that doesn't mean other teachersweren't good.
But I'm talking about theinspiration for going into
(04:20):
teaching.
They took a genuine interest ingetting to know the students,
and I don't just mean me, I meanthe cohort that we were in, and
I am going to name some peoplethat no one will know, but Mrs
Richardson, mrs Beckhouse, mrPerot, mr Norris, ms Bruehl.
Two of them have beenprincipals in SPC Ms Brown and
(04:41):
Mr Piggott.
They are some of the inspiringteachers that have given me or
platformed my career to date,which is great.
I also loved visual arts.
I love the history of visualarts and that's what hooked me
curriculum wise into our systemand what we do.
And I had the opportunity atthe school certificate level
(05:02):
which is quite different now towhat it was back then, but my
work was actually selected totravel around New South Wales.
I was lucky that I came firstin that and the reason I'm
saying that is because I alsocame from an exceptionally low
SES background.
Having that recognition, notjust for myself but for the
(05:22):
school, changed a whole lot offlavor of how I looked at
teaching and what we couldprovide for students, and I'll
speak about that later.
But the other thing thatinspired me to be a teacher was
some of the people I came intocontact with through education.
That actually wound peoplebecause they're not
inspirational, they're reallyhard and they can be quite
(05:46):
damaging, and I'll tell onestory later on.
Drew (05:49):
Yeah, please.
Lila (05:51):
It actually gave me strength that I didn't realize I
needed or wanted.
I will do it at the end of thisresponse, but I had a hunger
for learning.
My friendship group had ahunger for learning and the
teachers looked at us.
I know differently now and Iknow why.
To feed us Now.
(06:13):
At the time we were in year 10,and this is really giving me
historical context there was aCarmel report done in the USA
which was about working withchildren from low SES,
disadvantaged backgrounds, andthat was informing the way that
the teachers actually workedwith this particular cohort in
(06:34):
my group, which was fantastic.
And, to give an example, we hadover 300 students in year seven
when I went to year seven.
By the time I got to year 12,we had just under 100 students.
So you can see that thenutrition.
Drew (06:49):
There's a churn, absolute churn, yeah.
Lila (06:52):
I'll just tell you the story of Mrs South, which is the
person who attempted to woundme, and I'm sure she wounded
others, but this informed theway I work.
Three of us from our school,which was a great public
education school, got touniversity with scholarships.
You needed to be monitored ifyou had a scholarship.
Each scholarship student wascalled down one by one to Mrs
(07:16):
South's office so that she couldbegin the monitoring.
This is at university.
However, she called all threeof us down as a pack and I
started to think is this asocial experiment?
The first question to the threeof us we're all from the same
high school, all close friendswas and what does it feel like
(07:38):
for young people from thewestern suburbs to be attending
a tertiary education?
We are talking late 1970s.
She then turned to me and saidand you from another country,
you can see how things haveforged my, my work around equity
and wanting fairness andjustice for all so picking,
(07:59):
picking up on that where, wheredid you, what did you do with
that in terms?
Drew (08:04):
of that said totally, that seemed to be a pivotal moment
for you and what did you do withthat, with that?
Lila (08:12):
I was just turned 17.
My parents had always broughtme up to be polite but not step
back.
I stood up and I just said andhow does it feel to be so
bigoted and racist?
I left her office quietly.
I never up and I just said andhow does it feel to be so
bigoted and racist?
I left her office quietly.
I never returned and nor didshe ever call me down for any
(08:34):
monitoring.
But for me, I kept thinkingabout the sphere of influence
that I could take that furtherin a whole lot of contexts,
including having conversationswith my two friends who were
absolutely gobsmacked as well.
But it was much further thanthat.
But that really did inform howI worked in terms of students
that are not necessarily strong.
(08:56):
They're disenfranchisedcommunities, school communities
that we work with.
In terms of thatdisenfranchising, it was not
okay and I'm really strong whenI speak to pre-service teachers
about every interaction mattersand you don't wound anyone, be
really cautious of those sortsof things.
But they're just somereflections that I think helped,
(09:19):
informed and inspired me and itwas a marriage of those things.
But also, you know, my parentswere really strong on education
will open doors and openopportunities for you.
Drew (09:31):
Yeah Well, thank you for sharing that, lilla.
That obviously has impacted andshaped all of your career and
understanding for thoselistening going up in terms of
the response.
You stood up to what stood foryour values and and shared that
as well.
(09:51):
So thank you for sharing thatit's and we we hope that that
doesn't occur in, you know, the2025, but in terms of what I've
heard, is just sticking to thosevalues and those principles
helps make the right decision.
Lila (10:06):
That's right.
No matter how awkward ordifficult it may be, we do need
to call out the inappropriate,the damaging, the hurtful.
Drew (10:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's move into what aprivilege in terms of sharing
that, and I can hear all of thethings that you have experienced
as well, and you sound very,very busy, but it doesn't sound
like work, it sounds like amission.
It sounds like you aresupporting colleagues in
(10:36):
different contexts stillsupporting principal colleagues,
as well as potentiallysometimes coming in and
relieving as a principal as well.
If we go to your role, where wego back to Maryland High School
, and that's a school that'sknown for its incredible
diversity, transformation underyour leadership.
What were some of thebreakthrough moments during your
(11:00):
time there?
Lila (11:00):
Drew, it's not going to surprise you that I am going to
tell you some stories that willbreak through moments, but I
would like to also start beingquite cheeky.
I'm just going to rattle off acouple of data information
because that's all part of thegreater picture in terms of tone
, culture and aspirations aswell for what we do.
(11:23):
So, and we used to do slices oftime it might be 12 months, it
might be 24.
And we just feed it back to thecommunity and to the staff
about how we're going on thingsand I'm not going to rattle off
the things that we needed tokeep working on, but the things
that we did, you know that wasreally quite good in a slice of
(11:45):
time.
That was around the early tomid-teens of 2012, 2013, et
cetera.
We had started to do a wholelot of equity work and we'd been
starting to get equity moneycoming in.
So some of the data is 8.3%improvement in achieving the
higher bands in the HSC, whichwas just absolutely so, that's
(12:07):
bands 5 and 6, and a 5.2% in themiddle bands of band 4 and
sometimes band 3.
There was a move from bands 1and 2 up into band 3.
That was 13% and whilst thatmay seem insignificant to many,
the actual impact on the schoolcommunity was pretty powerful to
(12:28):
see that things were climbingand students were achieving
Increase.
In the number of studentsactually wanting to do an ATAR
pattern of study, we had anincrease of 6% wanting to do
ATAR exams through VET, which isreally important.
We had 100% of students onindividual education plans.
(12:50):
Now, before everyone goes, wow,that's amazing, it was
ambitious and it probably wasn'tas strong as the statement
sounds, but the intent was toknow each student, so there were
those sorts of things we hadover a 24-month period two years
we had increased and these areimportant stats by 14%
(13:15):
assessment submission rates.
Now that's pretty powerful too,because you know that students
are now starting to be engaged.
We had 63% of our studentsaccepting tertiary or university
courses because a number ofdifferent equity programs and
funding and opportunities.
Now that trebled within twoyears.
(13:37):
Now that's powerful and themessage or the lens that goes
with that across the schoolcommunity is yes, we can, yes,
we are, we are doing thosethings.
62% of those attendinguniversity out of that, 63% were
first-generation universitylearners, which is pretty
(13:58):
powerful, and it goes withoutsaying that 100% were low SES.
We also had 59% of thosestudents attending had language
background other than Englishand 15% were refugee students,
which is pretty powerful.
I can go on and on, Drew, withdifferent data.
(14:18):
So we had incredible attendancerates moving up, which was
great over a period of time andwe did that by having programs,
but one of the most powerfulprograms was actually having
paraprofessionals, and this wasquite early in the case of
having paraprofessionals, butthere was, I guess, an unspoken
(14:39):
caveat.
They were university studentsneeding part-time work and they
were all students ex-MarylandsHigh School, so that our
students could see that it washappening for our community.
That that was one of the greatthings.
Drew (15:02):
Anyhow, there's a lot more those, those stats are amazing
and and how how do you, as theleader of the school, how do you
see that happening?
Like what do you put down tothose stats, those amazing
statistics?
What did you see internally atyour school, as a principal, to
(15:25):
make that happen?
Lila (15:26):
Oh, there were a whole lot of things that were happening
and I might speak about otherprograms later, but we had,
early in the piece, a communityof schools, before it was
actually labelled a community ofschools.
So we were already scoping,sequencing across six primary
schools and the secondaryschools as partners.
We were scoping and sequencingcurriculum delivery so there
(15:47):
wasn't repetition, there weren'tgaps.
We were doing those things.
We had the paraprofessionals.
We had expert subject teachersfrom the high school working
with expert, expert teachers,because that's what primary
school teachers are expertteachers working across
curriculum areas, sharingpedagogical skills, sharing
(16:10):
curriculum knowledge skills.
So those aspects were thenworking and being married across
there as well.
We had consistency, as much asyou ever can in a huge community
, in all our schools, whateversize, a much larger community
you'll be controlling but we hadconsistency of language, of
(16:30):
expectations in terms ofconditions to enable learning,
in expectation of understandingwhat assessment tasks could and
should look like for learningand feedback.
We worked across all thosecycles that you would have.
We had professional learning atthe forefront of most
(16:51):
gatherings of staff, so thestaff meetings didn't need to be
a list of people aren't wearingtheir uniforms, people aren't
you know those.
It was trying to be meaningfulas well as having the
communication.
But a huge aspect of this, Drew, was actually the fact that we
had parents, integral to thelearning as well, and their
(17:12):
contribution to the community,which I can give you so many
examples.
May I give you one story.
So this was in my first year,so it is going back before some
of the people online were evenborn.
Drew (17:28):
As principal, I love it.
We have a diverse audience.
Lila (17:32):
So with this the community engagement could be stronger
and have a different flavour toit, because there were so many
great things already happeningat the school and this was an
aspect that we needed to look at.
So I began having culturalgroups come to the school,
because the mix wasn't happeningin a comfortable way.
(17:53):
So in the first six months Ithink I had 48 different
community groups of parentsinviting them in.
Can you be raw and honest aboutwhat's not working for your
children, crumbs?
They were raw and honest.
I'm telling you that.
Now, if I had it for whatevercultural groups and I went from
the larger groups to the smallergroups, I would run those three
(18:15):
times a day, so in the morning,at lunchtime and at night.
So no parent could say to me Ican't make it.
If they genuinely wanted to bethere, I was going to make sure
that there was an opportunity todo it and we worked through a
whole lot of things.
Now, if I go to the group orthe Maori group as one example,
(18:36):
that got the momentum up first.
There were a whole lot of thingsthat we worked on.
The parents thought it would bereally good to have a focus
camp for their children, becausethe Maldon children or the
Maori children at that time didhave the poorest attendance and
anything that they wereexcelling at percentage-wise
were things that you don't wantthem to excel at percentage-wise
(18:58):
in terms of referrals.
So we ran camps.
Now the parents virtuallydesigned the entire camp, the
workshops.
Talking about culturalstereotyping, is that what you
want?
Learning your first well, notfirst language, but learning
your heritage language.
We had a whole lot of thingsworking on that how to actually
(19:19):
study, getting a goal setting,and the parents ran this.
I will say that the teachersdid all the paperwork because we
needed to make sure that riskassessments were done and we
just kept working and thecommunity were involved.
They were walking the school,doing things coming in, you know
, with food, with music, withfocus, with language.
(19:41):
They would take them toMcDonald's to order Big Macs in
Maldi, like it was just magic.
And this is one of the stats ofthat.
The first year that I arrived,93% of long suspensions at the
school were the Maori boys,which is, you know,
(20:01):
disproportionate, to say theleast.
Drew (20:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Lila (20:04):
And have some sort of recognition.
The next year it was Zippo likein the following year, after
pretty intense work, and we didthis tailored as parent and
student felt for different.
You know the Arabic community,you know we had a little bit of
a French community then, etcetera.
We did it for everyone.
There was more intensity insome areas and it did have a lot
(20:27):
to do with parent buy-in, butthat was just magic, that stat.
Drew (20:32):
Absolutely yeah.
Lila (20:33):
And it sent a message to everyone, not just to one
cultural group.
I will tell you, drew, by theend of the year we did have all
the groups coming together asone Marylands High School
community, by the way.
It didn't remain that way, butwe needed to open the door.
Drew (20:50):
What a powerful story in terms of you coming through as a
leader that uses data andreally interrogates that data to
find the problem.
And then what I heard furtheris you unpack that data to see
how, in the problem you'retrying to solve as a leader,
what you could do to unravelthat problem of 93% of long
(21:14):
suspensions, which is just andthen you unpack that, you really
unpack that further to see,well, why are the students
behaving that way?
Incorporated what I heard isincorporated programs really
made sure those participants orthe families were feeling
included.
You really brought that in andthen celebrated that success.
(21:36):
How did you get the team as theleader, lilla, in to have that
same motivation and that visionyou had?
Lila (21:43):
I'm going to start with.
It was kind of easy.
Drew (21:46):
Okay.
Lila (21:47):
They felt it was the right time for this particular
direction to come in.
We actually had harmony days,as everyone does Sorry, that's
not unique, everyone has thatand so there were already once a
year, on one day a year already, teachers were working with one
(22:09):
particular cultural group.
So we all we had a semi contactthat was coming.
But when we started to have so,you know, with the group and
with the arabic group, thoseparticular teachers were ongoing
and pretty excited when theycould see the buy-in of
conversation that was happeningwith the parents in the school
(22:30):
and there were students thatalways attended.
Also, if I could just say,whenever we have an event, it
was never a parent night or astudent night or a teacher night
, it was a school night or aschool event, and that means
students, teachers and parentsalways the same as our school
development days were alwaysthat the three.
Drew (22:53):
So, anyhow, Okay, so just to clarify that, you mentioned
staff development days, so youincorporated your community in
that as well.
Tell us further, yeah.
Lila (23:04):
Okay, so every school development day the invitation
went out to every student.
Can I just tell you I didn'tneed to do crowd control with
that, but they were there, theinvitation was there and
invitation went to every parentas well.
Every school development day wewould tell them what we're
going to talk about.
(23:24):
We would suggest if you don'tcan't give the whole day,
because that would be their wayto come for an hour or not, you
can come for just sections of it.
Here's when lunch is on,morning tea.
This is the keynote.
This is when you'll beworkshopping.
But I'm going to take it onestep further.
Drew now, any story I tell isgoing to either be a one-off or
(23:46):
a series, and you know I'm notgoing to go into everything, but
we had a school development daythat became a model for other
local schools, where the onlypresenters were parents for the
day and it was almost likemasterclasses and it was
speaking to if students turnedup, but also to the staff the
(24:07):
cultural sensitivities or lifeat home, what it was like, what
the impact of different things.
And I mean, you know, somecultures have Saturday and
Sunday church requirements.
Some don't have access to sadly, electricity all the time or to
laptops.
This is those sorts of things.
(24:27):
So to talk about that, whatdoes it mean to be part of the
church?
Well, it means Saturday andSunday, apart from football
they're at, they can't dohomework, those sorts of things.
What are the behaviouralaspects?
And we did that for just aboutany group we could think of.
It didn't have to be a culturalgroup, might have been some
other understanding around that.
(24:47):
That was that, and it was sowell received by the parents,
but also by the teachers, whohad an understanding and a
connection with parents they'dnever had before.
We ran another and I know I wasthere for a long time, so we
should have done one or two likethis.
There was another schooldevelopment day where we
actually worked with 16 localschools and the day was
(25:11):
orchestrated, supported byteachers, but orchestrated by
students only in terms of theirwellbeing.
Teachers did assist thembecause they were doing things
like organising what workshopscould look like for teachers and
parents, what data needed to becollected prior, there were
different surveys done, so wehad all of that, but the
(25:32):
students ran the delivery of theschool development day on
wellbeing about students andwhat they Wow in terms of the.
Drew (25:40):
You've totally flipped the in terms of the.
You've totally flipped themodel in terms of what actually
Staff Development Day would andshould feel and sound like.
You gave your parents a voice,you gave your students a voice
and autonomy as well, and it'sthat whole handing and the
benefit is for the educators,for the teachers at your school,
(26:02):
to understand the context inwhich they're working upon.
So that would have been anexciting opportunity.
Yeah, some of those stories areso powerful and also possibly
first time in terms of no oneelse was doing that or were you
aware of other schools doingthat practice?
Lila (26:20):
I wasn't aware, and it was way back when Drew.
Drew (26:24):
Yeah.
Lila (26:25):
Yeah.
Drew (26:25):
Well, tell us way back when.
What are we talking?
How long ago?
Lila (26:29):
I began as a principal in 2002 and then I moved into a
director's role at the end of2016.
Drew (26:39):
Okay, yeah, at the end of 2016.
Okay, yeah.
So quite very forefront interms of that thinking and also
because of that thinking andleadership, were the team with
you.
Lila (26:50):
I just wanted to say I wanted to.
It wasn't my only leadership,it was a team.
Absolutely it was a team, and Idon't mean only executive or
senior executive.
I have some pretty powerfulleaders throughout the staff
community but also throughout,you know, the parent community
(27:11):
and the students.
I can tell you amazing storiesabout the students running
professional learning acrossAustralia in terms of advising
teachers on how to best usetechnology with teenagers.
You know we can talk aboutthose sorts of things.
It's just incredible things.
But teachers in their firstyear and teachers in their 30th
(27:33):
year running professionallearning in their second year
across schools and across ourstate.
And if I could just say and Iwon't go into this, but the
project I spoke about, where wedid scope and sequence of
curriculum, we had teachers thatwere magnificent and had never
spoken at a staff meeting everbefore were now running multiple
(27:58):
school professional learning.
So the leadership was there.
I guess it's a matter ofsharing with everyone.
You are a leader, which I don'twant to sound corny because we
always say everyone's a leaderand there's an amazing story
that's been documented a fewplaces you choose to opt out of
leadership, as far as I'mconcerned, and you don't get to
(28:21):
choose to opt in.
That's what I would havethought was best for our school
community and just the mostmagnificent staff there, and I
know everyone says that, butmine was the best.
Drew (28:33):
Well, you could see that, going back to the start of your
education story, you could seethat ethos shone through and I
could hear that you were goingto make sure all of those that
you supported as a leader, as aneducator, were able to shine
with their best ability in termsof making students to be
(28:56):
leaders, which is a piece of ifI indulge, similar to one of our
pieces with Leader and Me,through Franklin Covey, and an
opportunity to share as amultiplier, so to speak.
You saw the genius really inothers that they could shine
through.
Lila (29:13):
Thank you, can I say.
One of the highlights for mewas when two of my students who
had been incredible leaders atthe school were then at uni.
They're both lawyers in socialjustice now, but they they
approached me to present attheir professional learning, so
I was being hired by my.
(29:34):
I just love that whole cyclehow good is that full?
Cycle.
It was grand, it was grand.
Drew (29:41):
So then, if we move into obviously had fantastic success
results at Maryland High School,tell us about your role.
You moved into the presidentrole of the New South Wales
Secondary Principal Council andyou became a voice for school
leaders across New South Wales.
Can you tell us what are someof the pressures and privileges
of this position?
Well, everything's a privilege.
I know that sounds cheesy.
School leaders across New SouthWales.
Can you tell us what are someof the pressures and privileges
(30:02):
of this position?
Lila (30:03):
Well, everything's a privilege.
I know that sounds cheesy.
I'll get back to that.
Can I just start from?
It was an understanding of whatthe role was and I've mentioned
earlier in our discussion aboutthe sphere of influence and
understanding what the sphere ofinfluence is going to be in
that role and for what purpose,and that my actions and my words
(30:25):
were actually going to beprecedents for any future
decisions that were going to bemade on behalf of the
association.
So that was a pretty powerfulresponsibility because it would
be an immediate influence andthen a longer-term influence and
I really wanted to make surethat I got that right, which I'm
about to reference.
(30:46):
But it's also the perception ofour system.
As the current presidents know,it's at a state level.
How is the associationperceived by sharing that
understanding of what the voiceis?
But it goes further, because Idid have the privilege of
working nationally andinternationally on behalf of the
(31:07):
associations, but also of thesystem.
So you need to be reallycautious.
It's a real strongunderstanding of knowing what is
right for all in ourassociation, or for as many as
you can in terms of schoolleaders, but colleagues as well
in our system, for our studentsand school communities and, as I
(31:28):
said, you can't step back fromit.
You've got to call out thingsas they arrive.
Don't massage the message.
You know that, that old saying.
You can't do that, no, and youhave to be the voice
representing members.
and how do you know that?
That old saying you can't dothat, no, and you have to be the
voice representing members.
And how do you know what thevoice is if you don't go and
seek it?
(31:48):
It's not a matter of listeningto those who want to share it,
which is great.
You listen to that, but youneed to go and seek the voice
from those who haven't beensharing, and I guess it's a
similar ethos to generatingleaders you know from the school
community and then feeding backto the members what you are
(32:09):
representing, why you'rerepresenting it.
This is the information you got, so I'll just oh, no long intro
.
Drew (32:17):
No, no, but it's also important to understand.
That's what we're.
As you said, it's a privilegedbut understanding that, putting
yourself into people, listening,what is it like to be in that
position?
Lila (32:29):
In that context because Lilla was from Marylands High.
I was a principal of a largesuburban school.
How am I going to know whatGrant out near Broken Hill
really needs?
I'm not to make that assumption.
And the executive?
We're not to make thatassumption.
(32:49):
We have to be informed.
So the privilege was you know,knowing that and, as I said, the
representation, and on theglobal stage as well, which was
pretty good.
But the privilege was alsobeing able to inform, maybe help
block some of those decisionsthat weren't going to work well
for schools and for schoolleaders.
(33:11):
You don't always get thatprivilege, but you do get the
privilege to say quite firmlywhat you believe.
The pressure I don't want toand I've said this before, I
don't want to be too cheesy, butI darn well loved being a
principal and I loved being thepresident of SPC.
So the pressure that I guess Idid feel was that I was and I
(33:32):
remained active principal whilstI was the president.
Drew (33:36):
So my office was at Mary Lane Right.
You acted as a principal aswell as okay.
Lila (33:41):
However, I did have.
My two incredible deputies wereco-principals, because there
were times when I could not beat Maryland's high school.
We get that, we're not going topretend that that's not the
case and we worked as a trio.
Thank goodness for mobilephones at that point.
We would Any staff member thatwent to one, two or three of us
(34:04):
would get the same response.
We kept tight aboutexpectations, what we thought
was best, et cetera, et cetera,and honestly, we would be
texting all day.
I'd be sitting in a bridgestreet where it was.
Then you know, oh, this is whatI think, blah, blah, blah.
So the pressure was, I guess,making sure there's
communication.
But time and emotion is for me,I think, was the biggest,
(34:29):
because you can't be emotionalpublicly in your role.
I mean, I think you can beexcited and enthusiastic, but
you can't be emotional about awhole lot of things.
And time is really important.
And I'll give you anotherlittle story.
Someone who was in a remoteschool emailed me, I can't
remember, four or five o'clockin the morning on a Saturday,
(34:50):
really distressed.
It was a principal.
They needed something.
Of course I responded in thenext one minute because I would
have alerts coming through,because I did and I do
thoroughly believe you've got tobe available.
If you take on the job, you'vegot to do the job is how I feel
and that principle to this daywill remind me and I don't
(35:14):
remember the actual phone callor anything.
I did phone him immediately andhe implied that it wasn't as
drastic as life-saving, but itpretty much put him back in a
safe zone for the rest of theweekend and he said I didn't
ever expect that, but howimportant it was that I was
available.
Drew (35:35):
Yeah.
Lila (35:36):
You know I could speak a whole lot more about everything.
As you've worked out, drew, Icould speak for hours.
Drew (35:40):
I could speak a whole lot more about everything as you've
worked out, drew.
I could speak for hours, ohwell, but in just understanding
what the role is and what areyou proudest of in terms of
taking on that position as thesecondary president of the New
South Wales, secondary PrincipalCouncil, I think we had
incredible working relationshipsand it still happens PPA, spc
(36:03):
and Teachers' Fed.
Lila (36:05):
We're pretty united in most aspects of our thinking and
I think that trustedrelationship was pretty powerful
when we disagreed and go figure, there were times when we
disagreed.
There was never a publicconflict ever between the three.
I'm really proud of that andhow we worked around those
(36:26):
aspects.
I'm really proud of a number ofprograms and reforms that we
worked on.
So if I give an example ofgreat teaching inspired learning
I think that was prettypowerful and that was the
department and the alliance, asit was called then working
together.
That was pretty amazing workingon that and making sure we were
(36:49):
getting as much resourcing aswe could to support new teachers
to the system or new teachersto their new context as well,
which was pretty powerful.
There were a whole lot of otherreforms that, maybe with less
success, but the fact that wewere all at the table working
(37:09):
really strongly was terrific.
Yeah in terms of SPC, I think wedid some pretty marvellous work
, developing things and you know, been a series of great
presidents.
I at that time worked primarilywith Jeff Scott and a little
bit with Jim Cooper, mauryMulherrin, but also working with
the department Amazing, amazingteam of educational leaders
(37:34):
which everyone was yeah, andit's great that the system, you
know, our department now hasanother educational leader
working together usingeducational language.
Drew (37:44):
Yeah.
Lila (37:45):
You know, yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Drew (37:46):
Yeah, terrific, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, yeah, terrific.
Let's turn to the PublicEducation Foundation now, an
organisation that provideslife-changing support for
students and educators.
What led you to be involvedwith that organisation?
Lila (38:03):
Well, if only you should ask what led to it, drew, in
2008, I think is when it began,the then president, jim McAlpine
, a very, very, very dear friendof mine, asked me if I'd go
along to a meeting that was thePublic Education Foundation.
So I've actually been in someform married to it since then,
but in my alleged retirementyears I've become a director,
(38:27):
which is great, but I've alwaysbeen on the panels doing
voluntary work, doing mentoring,giving advice well actually and
also trying to get sponsorshipand funding for the scholarships
.
So, yeah, well, and I believewholeheartedly in public
education that, along withhealth, is the health of our
(38:49):
nation, so to speak.
Drew (38:51):
And what's some of the stories that you've seen through
the Public Education Foundation?
Lila (38:56):
I'm going to begin with a statement.
There are so many volunteersand many of them are retired
principals and we might have 50or 60, sometimes there's
hundreds of applications andthey're based on the greatest
need and I don't think we'veever seen an application where
there is no need but there'slimited funding.
(39:16):
If I could just explain that,there have been times with panel
members, strong principalleaders in their work life, who
have actually had to stop anddebrief because of the stories
they're reading that thechildren have shared with us, in
need of getting some additionalfunding.
So I'm going to just speakabout Michael and I don't need
(39:39):
to say where he's from, but I doknow Michael.
He was a young Aboriginalstudent.
At school he put in for ascholarship, vision impairment,
exceptionally low SES and livedoff country.
He actually came home to findhis mother after a successful
suicide and he was 12 years old.
(39:59):
You know it's a prettyincredible, horrible context and
he had mental health issuesthat were as a result of that no
self-esteem whatsoever.
I guess no focus in life.
He sometimes spoke aboutwanting to be a teacher.
He was put in for a scholarship.
He got a scholarship, he wentto university.
(40:22):
He's out there now teaching andworking on the cycle.
Now that's a pretty powerfulstory amazing yeah, and I I can.
You know, I can speak aboutLayla, who was a bright girl,
but school wasn't working forher.
She needed some additionalsupport.
So she got a scholarship duringhigh school and then a
(40:42):
scholarship to move intotertiary and you need to get the
grades like a scholarshipdoesn't guarantee a placement.
So she worked through all ofthat and started doing
industrial design, which wasfantastic.
Didn't actually feel fulfilled,but she could go and change
courses because she had thescholarship.
And then she did and may havespoken about this girl then
(41:06):
became a lawyer of socialjustice Wow, and there's so many
other stories, like Barrow, whois a friend of the board.
She was from a school and shecouldn't afford to go to
university.
She used the scholarship moneyto work with a group that
(41:28):
actually got her an internshipduring her university, which
then turned into a full-timeemployment.
She is thriving just beingpromoted, promoted, promoted.
She was a refugee, came out inyear 10, could hardly speak
English from Syria.
Story after story after story.
Drew (41:48):
It can see the hook, yeah, and the motivation and the why
of what it say this not verylightly.
It truly does change people'slives.
Lila (42:01):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely .
As does every great educatortoo in our public education
system.
Every interaction is going tojust help them grow and grow
absolutely yeah can.
Can I speak about theopportunities for teachers?
Drew (42:17):
I was about to go there.
So yeah, please, please do,yeah.
So tell us further about theopportunities, for we've heard
about the amazing life-changingexperiences for students, but
Public Education Foundation alsosupports teachers as well as
leaders in the system.
Can you tell?
(42:38):
Us further about thescholarships for those
participants.
Lila (42:41):
Yes, so for mid-career and early career teachers, there
are scholarships for them topursue their learning.
So they will apply and I thinkit's about 10,000 and they might
itemise what they want to do.
So it might be I want to dothis particular degree at Sydney
University or whatever it is,or I want to go and study in
(43:01):
Canada for, you know, a monthdoing this course or visiting
these schools, and they makeapplications, which is pretty.
So, you know, meeting theirneeds through the requirements
and the regulations that we havetoo, that's something.
There's also a STEM scholarshipfor teachers and principals who
are totally committed or wantto focus and grow more on the
(43:24):
STEM aspect, and the Harvardscholarships there's four a year
.
It is national.
I have not spoken with aprincipal who has not just been
blown away would be the only wayto describe their learning
experience in Harvard, andthere's pre-learning courses
(43:45):
that you can do as well.
But if I talk about some that Iknow as very, very dear friends
and some of them are on theirsecond or third principalship
the learning at Harvard affirmedtheir thinking and their
beliefs and informed it more andgave them courage to do
particular paths, and one ofthem is actually working with
(44:05):
the department, of course, ondifferent curriculum provision
aspects that they might do,because they're in a new build
so they get to do all thatlearning and bring it into
reality.
Yeah, which is great.
The last thing that is notabout scholarships but I think
is equally important is that PEFworks with the department, or
(44:29):
rather works with the departmentbecause they're the
department's awards.
About recognition of parents,SAS staff, business managers,
SAMs, CEOs, curriculum supportofficers, GAs, to be recognised
in the system.
May I just say the impact ofthat that you're because it
(44:49):
doesn't happen much.
Many of these people areinvisible in the system.
Let's be honest To have yourgeneral assistant or your
teacher in food tech, assistantin food tech to be recognised
for going above and beyond whichthey nearly all do is just
phenomenal for the schoolcommunity, but for the esteem of
(45:12):
everyone involved in thatprovision of work within our
system, it's pretty powerfulstuff too.
Drew (45:19):
So it's embracing all I've heard, obviously, students.
It's embracing families,changing lives.
It's supporting educators,teachers through to principals,
but, as I said, the invisiblevoice, but all those people in
the system ground assistants,food tech assistants, teachers'
(45:44):
aides all recognised.
So how to say the pitch?
How do people get involved inthis amazing organisation?
Or they're thinking this isamazing and what?
Lila (45:57):
can they do, please?
Well, may I just firstly alsosay that the PPA and SPC are
partners with the PublicEducation Foundation, which is
fabulous, and of course, theDepartment of Education and
Teachers Federation and a reallystrong partners.
And it's not New South Walescentred, it's national, but of
(46:18):
course New South Wales-basedsponsors.
It goes towards New South Walesrecipients.
How can people get involved?
Well, there's a whole lot aboutadvocacy that we do and we
actually have resources forschools to use it for different
community events.
So I guess you know.
So spreading the word there,applying for scholarships and
(46:41):
recognition, is pretty powerful,because when the team goes out
to speak to philanthropicpossibilities, to say that you
know there were 200 applicantsjust for this one and we could
only fund 50, your help, becausethey want to give money, they
(47:01):
want to know that there's a needfor it.
That's another way.
Certainly, if anyone wants toput their hand in their pocket,
they're more than welcome,because we do have many
colleagues in our system thatwill do different contributions
as well.
They can volunteer to be panelmembers and so forth.
There is quite a lot that canbe done and absolutely happy to
(47:24):
send information, resources,links for you, drew, to put at
the end of the call Absolutely,we can definitely put that in
our notes as well for peoplefurther information.
Drew (47:35):
There'll be links in our show notes as well that we can
explore for for participants.
It sounds like a trulylife-changing organization and I
can see the motivation thatyou're involved with this
amazing organisation.
Lila (47:51):
It is, and wouldn't it be great, drew, if there wasn't a
need for it.
Drew (47:55):
Yeah.
Lila (47:55):
But it has been a great win for public education in
recent days.
Yes, they have indeed.
Drew (48:02):
Still celebrating that success, as we call it,
colleagues, literally after thenew labor government was
successful federal laborgovernment was successful over
the weekend look in terms ofreflection and let's go to our
reflections and future focus.
If you look back on everythingyou've done, from the classroom
(48:23):
to in your role of seniorleadership, what are you most
proud of?
Lila (48:27):
Oh gosh, I believe some of the examples I used as a
principal earlier, some of thestories talking about the
leadership.
I think I've actually practicedthat ethos throughout my career.
So when I was a head teacher andI'm saying this because I am
proud of, I think, theleadership legacy I have left
(48:49):
and I think I have left placesbetter I'm not saying great, I'm
not pretending to be but therecognition of people, the
leadership of people, I think,is pretty powerful.
As I was saying, when I was ahead teacher, I just made up
this role but it was to giveevery student recognize and this
was a really low SES,disenfranchised school that
(49:13):
every student that year would berecognised on morning assembly.
Throughout the year Everyteacher was recognised and just
about every parent that camethrough was recognised.
So I think recognition isreally important.
I used to write letters toevery teacher in my school at
the end of the year sayingthanks, we've had a great year,
(49:35):
and I'd put in some of the data,which was general, and then I'd
say thanks for being the tenniscoach, thanks for being the
chess, because I knew what theywere doing, because it was so
important for the community.
But it's important for peopleto be recognised for what?
they do.
So I kind of think those sortsof things in terms of it are
(49:56):
great, but recognising leaders,yeah, and letting them fly,
because I don't know everythingby a long shot, but letting them
fly and then telling me whatI'm not doing as well as I could
, those sorts of that opennessis pretty important and changes
the complexion of the immediatecommunity, but also their next
(50:18):
context and my next context too,anyhow that's just.
Drew (50:22):
That's terrific.
I mean, how inspiring for thoselistening going.
Geez, I wish you could havebeen my principal.
Lila (50:28):
I'd just also say for everyone listening, I'm pretty
sure there are a couple ofpeople that would say the
opposite too.
Drew (50:34):
Okay, Always humble and grounded.
A few more questions before wefinish.
What gives you hope?
Lila (50:40):
So we've got another hour, because I can keep talking.
Drew (50:44):
Oh look, we could, we could.
We're wrapping up, though.
Lilla, I love how yourenthusiasm and the stories you
could share numerous storieswhat gives you hope for the
future of public education inNew South Wales?
Lila (50:59):
I work with pre-service teachers a lot multiple hundreds
every year now and I work withnot that many principals
multiple hundreds but manyForty-three years in schools and
around schools.
I'm really happy to say thateverything that has been
important throughout those fourdecades is maintained.
(51:20):
It looks different, teachinglooks completely different.
I get all of that, but theprinciples of what we do remains
the same that we want to do theright thing by that student, by
that student, by that student.
We want to help the families dothe right thing by those
students, because that's areally powerful thing that
(51:40):
parents all want the best fortheir children.
They don't necessarily knowwhat that looks like they just
don't understand that.
So I really see that thingshaven't changed in terms of
commitment generally across oursystem.
People go into it for the rightreasons and just get better at
(52:02):
it for the right reasons, whichis pretty fantastic.
The unrelenting commitment toteaching and learning, the fact
and I'm not meaning to criticiseanyone, but the joy of having
educational leaders at the topagain changes the conversation
to where it should beRecognising the workload and the
(52:26):
respect that teachers shouldhave being paid the largest
salary in the nation and thingscontinuing Working significantly
now to change the workload.
I'm not saying it's great, it'snot finished, there's so much
more to do, but that's certainlysome of the great things.
That gives me hope for it forthe future, because we're always
(52:47):
looking for better practice.
I don't believe there is bestpractice, Drew, so I never use
that term for better practice.
Collaboration is a whole newgame in the world of technology
and we do that much better andthat's going to continue.
But it's got its drawbacks aswell, as we know the support I
always say if I can just throwthis in here anyone in our
(53:10):
profession is not alone, and Ithink that's a really powerful
thing, and I think they are lessalone now than they ever have
been.
And you know, we've got ourassociations, we've got our
networks, we've got our unions,we've got outside networks, all
those sort of aspects.
Drew (53:26):
Why are they so important?
Why do you think thoseorganisations are so important?
Lila (53:31):
Well, apart from giving voice, it's the actual, it's the
collaboration, it's thedebriefing, it's reframing
issues of concern, because wecan't live complaining about
things.
We've got to contribute togetting the answer or improving
things, and working together isa much smarter way of doing that
(53:52):
.
And the voice of SPC and PPAhave been, and continue to be,
pretty powerful and respectedand that is really important.
Leadership of schools, for allschools and for the schooling
system in itself, those sorts ofthings are happening and I do
think there's a reset startingand there's a lot of reset to be
(54:13):
done, but it gives me hopebecause the reset is willingly
being done by the leaders of thesystem, the associations, the
union, profession, whatever youwant, but it's being reset by
educators who have a deepunderstanding and a deep want to
make the future always betteryeah, well said, lila.
Drew (54:36):
Before we finish, we ask guests what would you say to a
first year principal walkinginto their school tomorrow?
Lila (54:44):
okay, it's like I can't answer you straight.
I would say the same thing to afirst-year principal that I
would say to a beginning teacheror to someone in their new role
I'm so excited for you is thefirst thing I would say, because
I think it is always exciting.
But then I'd go through a wholelot of things like you are
never alone, please, don't thinkyou are alone.
(55:06):
And I think principals goingpeople go into the principalship
thinking they're alone.
My goodness, I had the bestsenior executive team.
I have the best then and now,principal friends who are very
deep and important.
You've got the association, soyou're not alone.
Students have got to be at thecenter of every decision.
(55:27):
I'm just going through a wholelot of things that everyone
knows, but everything else willfollow from that.
Like how do you support yourteachers?
How do you grow their capacity?
And it comes from students areat the centre.
How do you work with thecommunity there?
Yeah, there are a whole lot ofother things Communication,
communication, communication.
(55:47):
And I'm going to say youcommunicate up and you
communicate across.
I do not believe in the termcommunicate down.
If you're in a school, you'rewith your colleagues.
Policy, policy, policy.
Don't take a shortcut ever.
Don't ever do that.
If you don't like the policy,then put yourself in a position
where you can help change orinform that policy change, but
(56:11):
don't make yourself or othersvulnerable.
There's a whole list.
I could.
Drew (56:15):
I could do a whole workshop on this Drew I'm sure
you think I have but yeah, I wasgoing to say I'm sure you have
or you you're in the process ofdoing so yeah, so much knowledge
.
It's a privilege to speak toyou.
Your generosity, yourleadership, your fierce belief
in public education has comethrough so strongly.
The work that you're doing withthe Public Education Foundation
(56:38):
is truly inspirational.
Thank you for joining us forthis powerful conversation.
Thank you.
Lila (56:44):
Thank you, Drew.
Drew (56:47):
Well, thanks for joining us on the New South Wales PPA
Professional Learnings forEducational Leaders.
I'm Drew Janetsky.
If a little of this insight hasresonated with you, consider
exploring the Public EducationFoundation initiatives at
publiceducationfoundationorgau.
Stay inspired and keep leadingwith purpose.
Thank you.
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