Everyone Can Be a Leader : Muriel Summers, The Seven Habits, and Real School Turnaround

A single year to turn around a struggling school. A principal willing to listen, let go, and lead with courage. That’s the spark behind Muriel Summers’ journey at A.B. Combs Elementary: The birthplace of a movement that made student leadership the heartbeat of school culture and the Seven Habits a living language for kids, teachers, and families.

We sit down with Muriel to unpack how a community-defined vision—what should our ideal school look, sound, and feel like?—became a focused plan with just two or three goals executed with fidelity. She shares how borrowing from world‑class organisations like the Ritz‑Carlton inspired daily “huddles” that aligned teams, built trust, and celebrated small wins. You’ll hear the story of a custodian turned “leader of keeping the school clean and safe,” tracking five positive interactions a day with pocketed pennies—a simple system that proved culture is built in moments, not memos.

Across the hour, we explore why “everyone can lead, everyone has genius” isn’t a slogan but a design choice. Muriel explains the non‑negotiables—love children, know your why, collaborate generously—and how high expectations only work when matched with high support. We talk wellness as strategy, not lip service, and why empowering students to take on real work can shift 68% of daily tasks, reducing burnout while deepening belonging. The long‑term impact is clear: alumni credit the Seven Habits with landing jobs, navigating conflict, and choosing to stay and serve in their communities. As leadership shifts from command‑and‑control to trust and inspire, Muriel shows how to build systems that honour empathy, transparency, and shared ownership.

If this story nudges you to pick one habit, set two bold goals, and start a five‑minute huddle tomorrow, we’ve done our job. Subscribe, share this with a colleague who needs a lift, and leave a review to help more school leaders find these ideas. Your support helps bring global voices in educational leadership to principals across Australia and beyond.

Links and References:

To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning

To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue

Episode Transcript

Drew Janetzki (00:00):
Welcome back to Professional Learning's the New
South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
It's great to have yourcompany.
This podcast aligns to thevalues of the New South Wales
Primary Principals Association.
That is the values of principalwell-being, principals as lead
learners, as well as supportingprincipals to lead school

(00:21):
operations.
And they are underpinned bysupport, empower, advocate and
lead.
Now if you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates.
Now let's get into today'sepisode.
Today you're going to hear froma true pioneer, Muriel Summers,

(00:41):
former principal of A.
B.
Combs Elementary in NorthCarolina and creator of Franklin
Covey's Leader in Me framework.
Muriel transformed one of herstate's low-ing performing
schools into a model ofleadership and excellence, truly
inspiring a global movementthat has reached thousands of

(01:03):
schools and millions ofstudents.

Muriel Summers (01:36):
Because often I think as principals, we think
we've got to know all theanswers.
And that we've got to be theonly one going in and making
change happen.
And that's a huge mistake.
My gift was buildingrelationships with other people.

Drew Janetzki (02:41):
So welcome, listeners, to the New South
Wales PPA Professional Learningspodcast.
It's an absolute pleasure tohave Muriel Summers, one of the
co-creators of The Leader in Me,a former principal, A.
B.
Combs Elementary in NorthCarolina, and a pioneer in
embedding leadership intoeveryday school life.

(03:03):
Welcome to our podcast.

Muriel Summers (03:06):
Thank you, Drew.
I'm so honored to have thisopportunity.
So thank you so very much.

Drew Janetzki (03:37):
Just to give you context, in our part of the
world, it's the New South WalesPrimary Principals Association
based in Australia.
So, Muriel, if we can go back,go back in time, go back to take

(04:09):
us back to your early days as aschool principal, and what were
the challenges you were facingat A B Coombs and sparked the
idea of leader and me?

Muriel Summers (04:20):
Well, you know, uh Drew, I am reminded of the
quote through challenge anddifficulty often comes great
opportunity.
And that certainly does capturethe essence of my career in the
very beginning as a principal.
I was assigned the lowestperforming school in our

(04:43):
district.
I was issued the challenge ofrecreating, transforming the
school in an effort to improve.
I had a year to do it, and thatwas the charge from the
superintendent.
We need you to go in there andclean that school up.
You've got a year to do it.

(05:05):
Um, and um, if you don't do it,you know, get the results we're
looking for, then um it's goingto be taken over by the state.
So there was a little bit offear there.
There was a little bit of uhchallenge and motivation, I must
admit.
I always have loved achallenge, but nothing in my

(05:28):
professional life had everprepared me, honestly, for what
I was about to embark upon.
So I had heard that Dr.
Stephen Covey, the uh New YorkTimes bestseller, author of The
Seven Habits of Highly EffectivePeople, would be speaking in
Washington, D.C.

(05:48):
I decided that I would go andhear him.
And little did I know um at thetime that I would be sitting in
an audience of over 3,000people at the front row table,
not by design, mind you, but thereally the only place left to

(06:11):
sit.
Uh, but I have to believe itwas um intended for me to be
there that day, sitting where Iwas sitting.
As I listened to him go overthese seven habits, I thought
how differently my life mighthave been if I had learned these
habits earlier.
I was also sitting in thataudience as a single mother with

(06:32):
a uh daughter who was sevenyears old and a son who was
five.
And I was thinking, how in theworld am I going to um raise
these children the way I want toon my own?
So not only was I faced with aprofessional challenge, I was
also faced with a personalchallenge.

(06:55):
It was sort of like the perfectstorm of everything happening
that could possibly happen tosomeone at the same time.
But what I realize now is thatum being given the gift of
principal of A B combs wasperhaps the greatest
professional gift I've ever beengiven.
You know, it's easier, Drew,easier to um lead a successful

(07:24):
school.
It is extremely difficult totransform a low-performing
school.
And I've often wondered, youknow, it it's hard either in
either place, but when you'vegot a great school, you've got
to take it to extraordinary.
Where you've got alow-performing school, you've

(07:45):
just got to get it better in themeantime, and then take it to
extraordinary.
So um that was what I faced,but then there was no leader in
me.
There was just a framework ofthese seven habits.
As I listened to Dr.
Covey, I um finally mustered upenough courage at the very end

to ask him the question (08:08):
Do you think you can teach these habits
to little children?
I know you have had Sean Coveyon your podcast, and as I
listened to Sean's interviewwith you, he references that his
father mentioned to me that hewas just in the throes of
writing the book, The SevenHabits of Highly Effective

(08:28):
Teens.
But I was working with childrenfive to ten years old.
His response to me was, well,if I don't know why you couldn't
teach it, so if you do anythingwith it, let me know.
I went back to our community,our teachers, our our main
stakeholders, um, teachers,students, parents, uh, community

(08:53):
leaders, and universityprofessors, and I asked this one
question.
If you could create your idealschool, what would it look like?
What would it sound like, andwhat would it feel like?
And so each of thosestakeholder groups had very
specific things that wouldwarrant them saying this was an

(09:18):
ideal school.
Students wanted teachers whobelieved in them, who would
forgive them if they mademistakes, who would um also
understand, and mind you, theseare children five to ten years
old, but would forgive them ifthey didn't get their homework
in on time.
Parents wanted more thananything for teachers to really

(09:46):
get to know their child, theirhopes, their aspirations, um,
what they were interested in.
Teachers wanted students whowould respect them and um work
hard and have a work ethic.
And they also wanted parentswho would partner them in
helping educate their child.
Business leaders were lookingfor a skill set, um, never once

(10:12):
mentioning high academicperformance, although I know
that academics was certainly aconsideration, but they were
looking more for the softerskills of leadership,
collaboration, creativity,empathy, working well with
others.
Um, and then universityprofessors were saying, send us

(10:34):
students that are prepared, thatare prepared academically, but
also are prepared to beresilient, critical thinkers,
problem solvers.
And so we compiled all of thatfeedback.
And mind you, that was donewithin a week.

(10:54):
Um we had to come up with atheme to reinvent ourselves.
And so it just screamedleadership.
You know, I reflected back onum what I had learned in that
symposium with Dr.
Covey.
I reflected on what the parentswere saying, the teachers were

(11:16):
saying, the students weresaying, and it all just screamed
leadership development to me.
At that time, there was justthe dial-up internet.
And so I said to our technologyteacher, you know, see if you
can find any other leadershipelementary school in the United

(11:39):
States of America, because thatwas one of the charges that we
also had before us, that we hadto come up with a theme that was
like none other in our in ourdistrict, in our state, and
better yet, the United States ofAmerica.
Now there were leadership highschools, but there were no

(11:59):
schools that were focused onleadership development in
elementary school.
So we checked those boxes.
We said we wanted to go forthum teaching our students to be
leaders, and we were going to dothat through the framework of
the seven habits of highlyeffective people.
Dr.

(12:19):
Covey was just getting reallywell known at that point in
time.
So business leaders hadcertainly heard of him, um, even
had the training in theircorporations.
Um, university professors wereteaching the seven habits in
their coursework.
So um it just seemed as thoughthe stars were aligned for us to

(12:43):
launch something new.
Within a few months, we wereseeing an incredible difference
in school culture, in the moraleof our teachers, in the
excitement of our parents.
Um, and we did a lot ofself-promoting what we were
doing because it was part of oursurvival was to really start to

(13:06):
promote what we were doingwell.
Um, at the end of that firstyear, our scores, our test
scores, not that that should bethe only measure of a school's
success, but we went from 30% ofour students being at or above
grade level to 65%.
Within three years, we were at98% of our student population,

(13:30):
one of the most diverse in ourdistrict, excuse me, one of the
most diverse, uh, highsocioeconomic levels of poverty.
Um, and so we were not, I mean,we were we were a school that
um needed a lot of attention andrepair, but we were also a

(13:51):
school that was extremelydiverse socioeconomically as
well as um culturally, but yetand still we did it.
And we only had a few goalsthrough.
So we were able to drill down,and this would be some advice I
would give your listeners.
When you're trying to uhimprove any anything, if you

(14:17):
have 10 goals, you're nevergoing to get there.
If you have two to three goalsthat you are very strategic
about and you implement withfidelity and you are checking
your progress as you go, you'regoing to see improvement.
So the one thing that wechanged that first year was uh

(14:39):
creating a culture ofleadership.
So we knew that the otherthings we were doing were still
what had been done before.
But the one thing we changedwas we um implemented a culture
of leadership for all.
So we knew that had to be oneof our keys to our success was

(15:02):
that, because we could siftthrough uh just two goals to
figure out which one got us theresults we were looking for.

Drew Janetzki (15:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, what a what a fascinatingstory.
Like you I heard the startwhere you said if you could
create your own ideal school,what would that look like?
And then you've unpacked thoselayers further and further, and
with a framework of seven habitsof highly effective people as

(15:33):
the lead, but I could alwayshear what is it like for
students and what is leadershiplooking like?
And you had you look far andwide from what I heard there,
and you were seeking to see whatis the framework, and that's
where you worked through thatseven habits.
Was that so were you in thatframe before you came into

(15:57):
seeing Seven Habits, or were youlike was Seven Habits the Yaha
moment for you and went andgiving the permission to explore
that further?

Muriel Summers (16:10):
You know, Drew, I have given a lot of thought
over um at least the last decadeas to why I was so drawn to
lead a school um in thedevelopment of leadership.
And so much of it came from ummy own background as a student.

(16:34):
You know, I did okayacademically, but my gifts and
talents were more in umleadership, class offices, um
participating in drama and musicand all those other things that
um make a school so special.

(16:55):
Um and I wanted to make surethat children, if I were ever a
principal of a school, I wouldwant to make sure that
children's gifts and talentswere known.
And not always do they fallunder the category of academics.
So I wanted to make sure thatour teachers would get to know

(17:16):
the students so well that theywould know what their passions
and interests were.
And then we worked from that,and the end result was the
academics just kept rising whenwe really got to know our
students well.
And you see, everyone can be aleader, everyone has genius.

(17:38):
Uh, but if we're only lookingthrough the lens of academics,
we're missing out on about 80%of people who have genius in
other areas of art, music,athletics, kindness, compassion.
You know, and um I wantedchildren to love coming to

(17:59):
school, and I wanted them to bepart of helping us create and
transform our school.
So that's where the voice andthe empowerment of students came
into the design that we wouldgo to our most important
stakeholders first, and thosewere our children.
And I'll tell you, the childrengave me the best ideas of

(18:21):
transforming a school.
And I'd go back to encouragingevery administrator, school
administrator to ask everysingle year, if you could create
your ideal school, what wouldit look like, sound like, and
feel like?
And then are we doing what youwant us to do?

(18:42):
Because often I think asprincipals, we think we've got
to know all the answers, andthat we've got to be the only
one going in and making changehappen.
And that's a huge mistake.
I learned very quickly that ifI could surround myself with

(19:02):
people that were smarter than mein the areas that I wasn't as
smart in, then I could buildthis unstoppable team if I gave
everyone an opportunity to usetheir gifts and talents toward
the recreation, if you will, ofA.

(19:25):
B.
Combs.
You know, um, principles cannotbe um the masterminds behind
everything.
Of course, we have to know alittle bit about everything, but
to, you know, for me, it was tobe my gift was leadership.
My gift was um buildingrelationships with other people.

(19:47):
But I'd been out of theclassroom for several years, and
my skills in reading, forexample, reading instruction or
math instruction weren't asstrong as those teachers who
were getting that instructionseveral times a year, that
professional development.
So the moment, Drew, I went tothem and I said, I need you to

(20:11):
be the expert.
I need you to lead this schoolin literacy development, or I
need you to lead this school andhaving the best math
instruction any elementaryschool could have.
That's when we started to seenot only our students thriving,
but our teachers thriving aswell, because everyone in our

(20:35):
school was a leader insomething, whether it was the
arts, keeping the school cleanand safe, which was our
custodian, whether it was childnutrition services, preparing
the most amazing meals for ourchildren.
Everyone was starting to seethemselves as leaders because I

(20:56):
went to them and asked them fortheir opinion, their expertise.
And when I humbled myself tosay, I don't know it all, but
I've done one thing right.
I've hired great people.
Now let's go forth and let'slet's kill this thing.
Let's let's make this a schoolwe can make anywhere in the

(21:18):
world.
And it was this um belief thatwe could.
I get emotional thinking aboutit.
You know, it was um the samepeople.
It was just seeing themdifferently, seeing the teachers
differently, seeing thechildren differently, through
the those paradigms that we havein the leader and me that uh

(21:41):
everyone can be a leader.
Change starts with us, umempowering everyone um to have a
voice and a say, soliciting thehelp of our families um to help
us be the best school we couldpossibly build be.
You know, those paradigms thatwe have in this framework are

(22:04):
really the essence of what allteachers should be doing.
We should all be looking atstudents through the lenses of
these paradigms.
And when we were able to shift,that's when the greatness
started to happen.

Drew Janetzki (22:20):
Yeah.
You could really see thatyou've completely flipped the
model, the traditionalleadership model on its head, so
to speak.
And that would have taken somecourage and so forth.
But it was when did you thinkin that process, when did you
say, yep, I'm actually I s Iheard in a year's time you saw

(22:44):
that, but I'm sure you wouldhave had processes or feedback
loops when of this culture'schanging.
We're really this is startingto really shift in the right
direction.

Muriel Summers (22:58):
You know, it it took several years, and I'll be
honest, Drew, not everybody wason board.
Um, because this is a total, asyou said, we had education on
its head, and I had to let go ofwhatever power I thought I had
now as a principal.

(23:19):
I had to let go of that toempower other people to grow and
develop as well.
Our teachers, in turn, themoment I started to empower
them, it was a trickle-downeffect.
They started to empower theirstudents to have a voice and a
say.
Because in education, we reallywork for children.

(23:45):
Children don't work for us, wework for them.
And so giving them anopportunity through systems.
Now, you know, I can't sayenough about identifying your
systems for excellence in aschool.
And one of those systems for uswas the system of
communication.

(24:05):
So we had a constantcommunication feedback loop with
our parents, with our students,with our teachers, and our
community leaders.
We would bring communityleaders in once a year and say,
these are things we're doing.
What do you know aboutleadership?
What are the latest things youknow about leadership?

(24:28):
You know, this is some of thethings we're struggling with.
Help us.
You know, we learned how tocollect data and look at systems
for making an organizationextraordinary through
businesses.
You know, so very so much ofour success was also learning
from the best organizations outthere.

(24:50):
Drew, we went to theRitz-Carlton.
Not that any of us had everstayed there before, but it was
sort of the benchmark forexcellence in customer service.
So we went to the Ritz-Carltonand we asked them, how do you
create a culture so when peoplehear your name, there's an

(25:10):
automatic image of the servicethat they will receive if they
attend, if they stay at theRitz-Carlton.
So we learned from them aboutculture.

Drew Janetzki (25:24):
We um Wow, can I just sorry to interrupt that is
such a such a that's such aunique framework that you've
just framed.
And I'm thinking of anyprinciples that would have gone
and done that with their thatexercise with their staff, but
when you how you've explainedthat is it's it makes complete

(25:49):
sense because as educators weare there to serve the students
and community uh uh who weserve.
And was that your thinking interms of going to to that next
level?
And then what was the buy-infrom the staff around doing

(26:12):
that?

Muriel Summers (26:14):
You know, Drew, I have thought about this a lot,
and I um often get emotionalwhen I think about the pioneers
of A Bcoms who were so willingto support this vision that we
could have could perhaps pullourselves out of the slump we

(26:36):
were in where no one wanted tosend their children to that
school.
We had a theme that was nolonger attractive and attracting
people, you know, but there wassomething magical about
recreating ourselves andhonestly thinking that we
actually could pull this thingoff.

(26:58):
And we knew if we wanted toculture like no one else had, we
probably needed to look tobusinesses that had incredible
cultures, just like I'm sure youhave in Australia.
There are companies that whenyou hear their name, you think,
oh my goodness.

(27:18):
And so one of the things of ofcourse, you know, we couldn't
purchase all the certain thingsthat we would love to have to
make our school beautiful.
We didn't have that kind ofmoney.
But we could put into place asystem of what the Ritz-Carlton
did every day when they firstgot started as a um leader in

(27:42):
the hotel industry, and that wasa haul, what they called
huddles.
And they would come together asa hotel, and everyone who was
running the hotel, from thelaundry to the front desk to the
restaurant to the cleaningstaff, they would huddle at the
very beginning of each shift,and they would talk about what

(28:06):
their goals were.
They they said their missionand their vision.
They said, this is what we wantto accomplish today.
And their mission statement wasladies and gentlemen serving
ladies and gentlemen.
So whoever was given a problem,they didn't go to the manager
or the head of the department.

(28:27):
They were empowered to solvethe problem for the customer.
So we started toinstitutionalize hallway huddles
within each grade level.
And it was buildingrelationships, it was reviewing
the goals of the day.
It was one teacher saying, Oh,I found a great idea last night

(28:47):
to go with our science unit.
Here it is for you.
And then birthdays or specialannouncements were celebrated in
a 10-minute chunk of time atthe very beginning of our school
day before the bell rang andthe children came in.
Some of the children who werein an early morning care program

(29:09):
who were actually inside theschool and would witness the
hallway huddles, they would gooutside during recess and they
would start a huddle.
So we saw that um what we weredoing was really having an
impact and an influence.
I would encourage all educatorsto look at whatever model you

(29:35):
have that you want to learn fromand draw from, whether it's in
the business industry, whetherit is a restaurant, um uh
whatever that if it they've gotsomething great going on, learn
from them.
The second thing I did, we did,we started looking for signs of

(29:58):
leadership everywhere we went.
And we found leadership in themost unexpected places.
Um, I will never forget Drew,observing um what's mostly known
as a custodian, the role of acustodian.
But we called Mr.

(30:18):
Ricky the leader of keeping theschool clean and safe.
And just by changing his title,he walked a little taller and a
little prouder because of histitle.
And I would watch him goingdown the hallway, and he would
reach in one pocket and he wouldhave an exchange with someone

(30:40):
in the hallway, and he would putwhatever was in his hand in the
other pocket.
And I was intrigued by this.
And he would stop and speak andengage as he went down the
hallway.
So one day I said, Mr.
Ricky, well, you reach in yourpocket and then you pull
something out and you put it inthe other pocket and you stop

(31:03):
and you talk to people.
He said, Well, Miss Summers,I've been encouraged, because I
am a leader in the school, I'vebeen encouraged to make five
people's day.
It's a system I have ofspreading joy, if you will,

(31:23):
across the school.
So I put five pennies in onepocket, and as I interact with
someone, and it's a positiveencounter and it's a
relationship-building encounter,I put that penny in the other
pocket because my goal is tohave all five pennies in my
left-hand pocket at the end ofthe day.

(31:44):
I learned so much from him, andhe was our leader in keeping
the school clean and safe.
We often think that only peoplewho are in charge are leaders,
and what a mistake that is,because we can all lead and
learn from one another.
So we set out as a staff tolook for leadership in

(32:08):
unexpected places, and then wewould share those stories at our
faculty meetings.
So we were constantly beinginspired by one another and by
the things that we saw as wecontinued our journey in
leadership development.

Drew Janetzki (32:25):
Yeah, yeah, amazing story.
And thank you for sharing.
And I'm sure you've gothundreds of stories like that.
And in terms of if we go to theglobal impact, I mean, started
from there, and now we if wemove into it's now a globally
recognized program.

(32:46):
Leader in me, I see, is now inthousands of schools worldwide.
What is the common thread yousee in the United States,
Western worlds, and in Australiaor everywhere with the Leader
in Me program?

Muriel Summers (33:03):
I am so inspired, overcome with um
amazement that um, and mind you,Drew, I grew up in a very rural
area of North Carolina.
You know, I was a son anddaughter of um a granddaughter

(33:27):
of a cotton farmer.
And so to think that I wouldever visit the countries that I
had visited as a result of thiswork was not even a dream that I
had.
I couldn't even imagine beingin some of the places I have
been.
But what I have learned, um,and it was the request of Dr.

(33:50):
Covey, my last conversationwith Dr.
Covey, when this work wasstarting to really take hold and
really uh have impact.
I said, Dr.
Covey, you know, did you everthink that we would be getting
these results?
And he said, I he had hopedthat we would, but he would too

(34:11):
was surprised that littlechildren as young as five could
learn how to be leaders.
But he also said, Muriel, Ireally want you to devote the
rest of your life in puttingthis work in the hands of
children all over the world.
At 70, almost 70 years old, Iam so motivated and so inspired

(34:36):
and feel such a sense of urgencythat it's hard to explain, to
help fulfill that vision that hehad, because he knew that if we
could teach children how to bekinder to one another, to take

(34:56):
charge of their own littlelives, to know that they could
make a difference and an impact,to think win-win, which our
world needs to so think of.
That is the one habit, alongwith seeking first to understand
one another.
What I learned is that we areso much more alike than we are
different.

(35:17):
And it's through thosedifferences that we are richer
if we will allow ourselves tolearn from one another.
You know, Australia has areputation, Drew, globally, as
being a leader in literacy likeno other place around the world.

(35:38):
And so sometimes you have to goout of your own country to hear
how people view your country orour country.
And so, in the poorest areas ofCambodia, where they were
struggling so desperately torebuild their culture and their

(36:04):
country when so many educatorswere killed because of their
beliefs in educating others.
You saw this glimmer of hopeand promise.
And it was through the lens ofleadership.
And I go to Guatemala and I'mum in a school, and a young

(36:26):
gentleman stands up and he said,It is because I have learned
how to be a leader that I havedecided not to leave my country,
but to stay in my country andmake it better.
Um I am just so humbled by whatI'm seeing.

(36:50):
Um in some of the poorest areasof our world, this work is
making a difference.
And communities are seeing thatbecause their children are
leading with such compassion andempathy for one another, that
there is perhaps a chance thatthe world can be better when

(37:12):
they're in charge.
So Dr.
Covey would say, you know, thatthese habits are
principal-centered, and thingsthat are principle-centered,
principle PLE centered, aretimeless.
Being kind is being kind,whether you're in the United

(37:36):
States, Australia, or in umVietnam, um seeking to
understand one another is thesame no matter where you go.
Um, and I just saw and Icontinue to see as I were uh
last year.
I was in um Egypt and Turkey,and I remember a gentleman

(38:01):
standing up, and um we werespeaking at America at the
American University there inCairo, and he said, We have
millions of children here.
How do we find a way to get itto every single child?
So um the head of ourinternational division said,
This is how we can make thishappen for you.

(38:23):
So children now in Egypt um arelearning the seven habits, and
that was not even anything anyof us thought would happen in
terms of the global footprint ofthis work.
But that's where we'll make thegreatest difference.
Yes, we want to make adifference in our country, but

(38:43):
to fulfill the vision Dr.
Covey had, we have to have aglobal footprint, and we're
slowly making that happen.

Drew Janetzki (38:50):
Yeah.

Muriel Summers (38:51):
Yeah.
And I can really feel thatsense of purpose that you do
carry, and you have, I wouldpresume you have a mission
statement for that as well,Muriel, as part of being part of
Seven Habits.
Do you could you share yourmission statement with us today?
Well, I have a um professionalbusiness statement, and I have a

(39:17):
personal mission statement.
As a single mom, um trying tojuggle so many things and be the
best mother I could be to mytwo children.
Um it was important for me.
In fact, I asked my daughter, Isat my son and daughter down,
and they were just in elementaryschool.

(39:38):
But the power of theconversation of what do we want
our family to value?
What do we want to, how do wewant to interact with others?
When people say our name, whenthey say Drew, what do you want
other people to say when theyhear your name?

(39:59):
You want them to say that thesekind and compassionate, hard
work.
No, so we talked about that.
So when I asked my ownchildren, they said, Mama, we
want you to be there.
And I said, What do you mean?
I was a principal strugglingto, you know, get A B combs up

(40:20):
and going.
They were students at A Bcombs, but sometimes I had to
have friends or parents take mychildren to certain events
because I was tied up withsomething else.
But be there meant you'rethere.
You're not on your phone,you're not on your computer,

(40:40):
you're not talking to someonebeside you.
You were there watching us,supporting us.
It was life-changing for me.
And from that moment on, Inever missed a performance, I
never missed a game, I nevermissed anything they were
involved in.
But I had to I had to be sointentional about that those

(41:07):
three words or two words bethere, that I designed
everything around me being ableto be there.
My professional missionstatement is driven by that last
conversation I had with Dr.
Covey.
Um, every child, every corner.

(41:27):
And uh it's as simple as that,which is why I do devote so much
of my um time to being outsideof the United States, working
with schools around the country.
Um, my mission in my early daysas a principal, it changed, you
know, and I would encourageyour listeners to think about

(41:50):
not being stuck with somethingthat's so long nobody can
remember the mission statement.
It's a lot of nice wordswritten on a beautiful document.
But can anyone say that?
And more importantly, is anyoneliving that?
And I learned that from ourmilitary.

(42:13):
Short, succinct.
Everyone can recite it, butmore importantly, everyone is
living it.
I learned core values from ourmill our military, and I learned
great mission statements fromgreat companies like the

(42:33):
Ritz-Carlton for one, Fortune500 companies.
I would just Google and seewhat were their missions or
mission, and usually they werevery short, because short means
succinct, it means we can do it,but it they're also
ever-changing, depending uponwhere you are at that point in

(42:55):
time.
So my first mission statementas a um principal was to be the
best elementary school in ourschool district.
And once we achieved that, wewent back to the drawing board
and we said, okay, we'veachieved this now.
What's it gonna be next?
And then um when I left A BCombs, it was to be a model of

(43:21):
leadership and academicexcellence for the world.
And there was a time that wewere only thinking our small
little district.
And then as our circle ofinfluence continued to grow, we
really saw ourselves as a modelbecause it had become a reality,

(43:43):
as a model, not to necessarilybe replicated, but for them to
be a model that they could pickand choose from, things that
they could take back and maketheir own in their own school.
Because every school has itsown DNA.
You know, um, we don't wantcookie-cutter schools.

(44:04):
We want schools that are umframeworks of excellence, that
um are a reflection of theircommunity and the student body
and the staff that inhabit thatschool.

Drew Janetzki (44:18):
Yeah.
Look, thank you for just beingso vulnerable there and sharing
that personal statement and thatand taking on that.
I heard you take on thatfeedback, and that's a real
quality that you that you have,Muriel.
You take on the feedback, youlisten, and you you that moral
purpose comes through.

(44:39):
Yes, I want to be present formy I think as parents also
listening to this.
We all want to be present, butin the in the modern era, it's a
very easy way to be distracted.
So sitting down, having thatconversation about, and then you
synthesize that through, youwork through that, and you

(45:00):
essentially use the habitsframework I heard to then make
sure that actually was you madethat then your mission to
achieve that, and then you had asuccinct mission of being the
best elementary school, and youworked to make sure that
happened.

(45:20):
If you're sitting forprincipals listening and our
audiences predominantly inAustralia, you're sitting as a
principal and you're leadingthrough complexity and change.
What would be your first pieceof advice if people are inspired
by this work?
What would you say to them?

Muriel Summers (45:39):
You know, never to forget really how important
it is to lead with courage andcompassion.
Um I wasn't all I listen, I'm awork in progress true.
I am on any given day, I'mprobably a two on the scale of

(46:00):
uh leadership as it pertains tothe seven habits, but I know I'm
better as a result of thiswork.
I know I am better for havinggone through difficulty.
Uh, I am better for leaning into others and being vulnerable

(46:21):
enough to say, I can't do thisby myself.
I need you.
And I know together we could bethis unstoppable team, but it's
going to require trust andtransparency and honest
feedback, not to get our backsup when someone gives us

(46:43):
feedback, but to embrace it andsay, you know what, they're
probably right.
You know, let's let's see howwe can um do this differently.
I I do say that when you'redealing with change, you you
have to be so anchored, I think,in your purpose of knowing your

(47:08):
why.
Why are you why are you wantwhy are you the pr why do you
want to be a principal?
Why does this school, what doyou want for this school?
And being able to envision itbeing better than where it is
now.
And almost I when people said,Did you ever think Gaby Combs

(47:30):
would be one of the mostrecognizable schools in the
world?
I I said no, but I did alwayssee us being better than where
we were.
And um as a leader, you've gotto paint that picture for
yourself of what it what you seeyou being, seeing the school

(47:54):
being, and then soliciting thesupport of everyone else, not
just the support, but the giftsand the talents of everyone else
to believe it too.
Um the second thing I would saywould be honestly to build
collective leadership, and we'vetalked a lot about this in the

(48:15):
past few minutes.
Everyone, everyone is a leader,and never forgetting to
celebrate the small wins alongthe way.
Um, I don't think we do thatenough in education.
I don't think we celebrateenough.
Um, I would also um say tonever forget the importance of

(48:38):
caring for yourself.
Um there were times, Drew, thatI was so tired, I didn't know
how I could put one more foot infront of the other.
And I thought taking a day offwould be viewed as, well, she's
taking a day off.

(48:59):
And then uh, but I quicklylearned that rejuvenating,
renewing myself in mind, heart,body, and spirit was the only
way I was gonna continue to havethe energy to take combs to the
next level.
But I also encourage the staffto do the same.

(49:22):
If you need to take a day, takea day.
If you need to cover your classbecause you need to handle
something, let me know that.
So I build a culture of we'regonna take care of one another,
we're gonna work hard.
That was enough, we're gonnawork hard, we got to, but we're
gonna take care of each other.

(49:43):
We're gonna be a family thatlooks after one another.
And I said those kinds ofthings, but more than
importantly than saying it, Ihad to model it.
I had to model that.

Drew Janetzki (49:56):
You had to demonstrate that, yeah.
If we if we dive deeper intothe leadership in in action and
you've touched on those thosekey some of the key elements
there, Muriel.
I'll go through a few questionsfor you to ponder.
Were they non-negotiables,firstly in creating leadership
in and culture and schools?

(50:17):
And you briefly touched on thenhow can principals model
leadership without burningthemselves out, which is a very
much a tr industry trend we'reseeing across the globe.
If I can just get you to unpackthose two things there, the
non-negotiables, were there suchthings in leading this way in

(50:39):
the engineer paradigm?
And also the thinking aroundburning, you know, principal
burnout as well.

Muriel Summers (50:48):
I would say the non-negotiables, for sure, was
every teacher.
Every person who worked in ourbuilding was called a teacher.
We're all teachers.
But they clearly understoodtheir why, why they were there.
And that was to make adifference in the lives of the

(51:09):
children that we served.
That was a non-negotiable, thatyou never forget your why, and
that you always strive to putchildren first and foremost.
I even went as far to say, I'drather you love these children,
our children, than anythingelse.

(51:29):
I can teach you how to be agood teacher, but I can't teach
you how to love teaching or lovechildren if that's not already
inside of you.
And if there were people therethat um didn't want to give the
extra mile, like the majority,if there were teachers who

(51:51):
didn't feel that children'svoice mattered, I help to
provide them with an opportunityto serve somewhere else.
Because at A.B.
Combs, you will, we will loveour children so much that we'll
figure out why they'remisbehaving.
We're gonna figure out whythey're struggling academically.

(52:14):
We're going to give them a roleand responsibility to make them
feel important.
Um, and we're going to um workcollaboratively to take our
children to a better place.
So those were thenon-negotiables.
You've got an idea, you don'tkeep it to yourself, you share
it with everybody.
If it works for your children,it's going to work for another

(52:38):
teacher's children in anothergrade level, perhaps.
Um, so it you had to becollaborative, you had to be
abundant.
Um, there was a common languageof the seven habits that just
tied us all together.
You know, we had to, when wewent out personally to a party

(52:58):
or something, we would findourselves saying, Well, that was
a win-win, or um, give me five.
That was synergy.
You know, we would start usingthe leadership language.
Like, okay, don't, that's justgoing to take it a little too
far.
But we were also um socommitted that our children
would learn the language, butmore importantly, live the

(53:20):
language.
It was a culture of everyoneagreeing to grow as leaders,
too.
You know, I had a lot ofteachers that went on to be
school administrators who umfound their voice and perhaps
left education to pursue a dreamthey had always had.
So non-negotiable sounds alittle tough, but it's it's

(53:45):
needed.
You know, I I would say anyonewho ever served with me would
always say Muriel worked hard,but she worked as hard as the
rest of us.
And she didn't ask us to doanything she wouldn't do
herself.
So when I said we're gonna takeadditional coursework to grow

(54:07):
as leaders, I'd already done allthat.
That certified me, but Icontinued, we all continued to
learn and grow together, and wemade a commitment.
We were gonna love our childrenno matter what.
Yeah, this seemed to take careof itself.

Drew Janetzki (54:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so and the second was justin terms of and thank you for
clarifying that I wouldn't sayit's a tough conversation, but
it's a piece of knowing whereyour values are and where what
the mission is and ensuringoffering support for those who

(54:46):
who hopefully are on theunderstanding of of what the
mission is.
But as if it comes throughapparent that they're not on
that same vision, then obviouslythose conversations need to
take place because that would beessentially undermining the
mission.
And I'm sure you would be andthat is part of whether leaders

(55:09):
like that or not, is part ofmoving and shifting essentially
paradigms, moving and shiftingculture as well.
So thank you for sharing interms of of that.
And and the next part wasmodeling that in terms of making
sure we we're not on our recipeto burnout, which we are seeing

(55:31):
across different jurisdictionsof print teacher burnout,
principal burnout as well.

Muriel Summers (55:39):
Well, I want to go back and say before I address
this that second part is thatthe people who left Combs fell
into two categories.
They left because of umpersonal reasons.
If they left for professionalreasons, they would often say

(56:01):
this is a culture where theexpectations are just too high.
I've considered that acompliment because I think if
you set very high expectations,but with setting those, you've
got to also be able to providethe support for those
expectations.

Drew Janetzki (56:21):
Yeah, and to frame it, you're not setting up
for failure.
You are putting supportmechanisms as the leader of the
school to ensure they don'tfail.
It comes essentially what I'veI've hearing is it comes down to
those people not prepared tomake that shift with despite all
the supporting mechanismsaround them.

(56:42):
So that's a a clear differenceof setting up for success and
setting up for failure.
Exactly.

Muriel Summers (56:48):
But you know, interestingly, Drew, um I would
say the teachers that left, um,and there weren't many.
There weren't many, but onesthat did leave um for various
reasons.
If they left to go to adifferent school because it was
closer to home, to their home,or it might be a little bit

(57:10):
easier because they had so manythings to juggle, those teachers
wanted to come back after beinggone for a couple of years
because even if they still hadto drive as far as before, they
said it was a culture that theywere longing to find somewhere
else that they they could notfind, like we had at A B Combs.

(57:33):
It was this culture of love andsupport, and we can do this.
Um, and so I was very happy andpleased to hear that what we
were doing, even though it wastough, it was something that
great teachers wanted tocontinue to be a part of.

Drew Janetzki (57:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's a very good point tomake.
And doing the research around AB Home School, the you had not
only teachers wanting to comeback, you also had the problem
of not only that out-of-zone uhenrollments and people wanting
to come into the school becausethere was something magical

(58:17):
happening there, which is whichis uh, you know, must be another
that was another new challengeto work through in terms of of
that and being respectful foryour your neighboring school as
well.

Muriel Summers (58:30):
Well, and the wellness piece, yes.
I mean, I want people to umremember this data point, if you
will, um, that 68% of the workthat goes on in a school,
regardless of the level,elementary, middle, that's how

(58:54):
we're structured here in theUnited States, uh, primary or
secondary, 68% of the work canbe done by the children who
attend that school.
So it means for for us to bemore balanced, we empower.

(59:15):
We empower our students to dosome of the tasks that we may
have done.
We empower one another as ateam to bring our best teaching
forward, to share with oneanother.
We find ways to create thisbalance that allows us to be

(59:38):
even better because we areletting go.
So much of our own balance isour own.
We're our own worst enemy.
We're our own worst enemy whenit comes to balance.
But when we let go and weentrust our colleagues, when we

(59:58):
um have a culture of Oftransparency, where we have a
system of celebration and fun,you know, everybody wants that.
We find ourselves becoming morebalanced.
And I will say, COVID, a giftfrom the COVID epidemic, allowed
us to stop.

(01:00:19):
The world stopped for a while,and we found ways to become
balanced.
And we didn't want to lose thatonce we got out of COVID.
So I think whatever brings youjoy and happiness keeps you
centered, keeps you healthy,those are things that you have

(01:00:39):
to do for yourself.
And when you do it with otherpeople, I know there were grade
level teams that at the end ofevery day before going home to
their families, they would walka mile around the school and
they would talk about what theywould be teaching the next day
or what they were planning, butat the same time, they were

(01:01:01):
getting some physical fitnessin.
So there there are ways, butyeah, it's hard.
It is hard.
But Dr.
Covey would always say, you'vegot to schedule time for you
every single day for you to bethe best you that you can be.

(01:01:21):
I'll share a personal story, ifI may.
Dr.
Covey and I were travelingtogether once, and Dr.
Covey had someone who traveledwith him to assist him in his
roles and responsibilities.
And I was just going along totalk about what was happening in
education.

(01:01:42):
We were on the same flight.
The flight did was delayed.
We did not get to the hoteluntil 3 a.m.
in the morning.
So the reservationist said, Um,Dr.
Covey, would you like a wake upcall?
And he said, Yes, I'd like awake-up call for 5 a.m.

(01:02:04):
Now, mind you, it was 3 a.m.
Okay.
So then the reservationistturns to me and says, Um, Miss
Summers, would you like awake-up call?
Well, Drew, I wasn't going tosay 9 o'clock the next when Dr.
Covey, who at this point intime was in his mid-70s, 5 a.m.

(01:02:28):
I'll have a 5 a.m.
wake-up call too.
So she put that down and we geton the elevator and I said, So
Dr.
Covey, what are you gonna bedoing at 5 a.m.?
He said, Oh, Muriel, I will beworking out in the hotel gym.

(01:02:49):
I work out every morning at 5a.m.
And I said, even when you getin at 3 a.m., he said, it's too
hard when you have a rhythmwhere you have a pattern, you
discipline yourself, and youdon't let anything stand in the
way of you taking care of you.

(01:03:11):
I learned a valuable lessonthat day.
Um that if you're doingsomething that's working for
you, don't let anything stop youfrom doing that.
Because for you to be the bestversion of yourself, you have to
take care of yourself first.
Um, I think any school shouldmake wellness part of

(01:03:33):
professional development, forsure.
So um that was a long answer toa short time.

Drew Janetzki (01:03:39):
But that's a fantastic story to then just for
our listeners listening to thatgoing, it really takes yourself
and your self-discipline andessentially the ha seven habits
of highly effective people toessentially you are in charge of
your own wellness.

(01:04:00):
You are in charge of your own,you are the CEO essentially of
your mental health, you're theCEO of your health as well.
And that example reallyresonated because there would
have been every excuse and hewould have been forgiven for not
doing a workout at five o'clockin the morning.

(01:04:21):
But when he explained why, itreally sunk through that lesson
of okay, to be successful is tocontinue being in that habit.
Because otherwise, if you goout of that habit, then oh well
I'll you could lapse and lapseand lapse and s and therefore

(01:04:41):
you get off that really goodhabit of exercise with which Dr.
Covey did.
So, Mira, if we move into now,we're actually our association
and many, many professionallearning and universities look
at the long-term measure ofprofessional learning and

(01:05:03):
impact.
And could you give us anindication of I'm I'm curious to
hear your thoughts on the sevenhabits as well as Leader and me
of the long-term impact of thiswork because this is I guess
what I'm where I'm going withthis is that it's this is not
just a short, sharp and once umdone exercise, this is not just

(01:05:28):
a one-day PL and we arefinished.
I want to really hear thelong-term impact of Seven Habits
and Leader and Me, because youare going we are looking at
long-term impact here.

Muriel Summers (01:05:44):
Well, after almost 50 years in education,
I've seen so many things comeand go and come back again with
a different bow on the package,if you will, but still the same.
The one thing and some thingsstuck, and but unfortunately

(01:06:05):
most things did not.
Um the seven habits has stuck.
The seven habits are timeless.
Um they are we called it, wealways called it with our
children a toolkit that willhelp them navigate the rest of

(01:06:26):
their lives.
And if they would just pull outof that seven habits toolkit
the lessons and leadership thatthey had learned, it would serve
them well for the rest of theirlife.
Um, and we have found that tobe true.
Um, serving at A B Combs forover 25 years, and it's almost

(01:06:47):
unheard of for a principal tostay in the same school that
long, but um, we had builtsomething pretty incredible.
And I would say to thesuperintendent, if he would say,
Well, I'd like for you to dothis or I'd like for you to do
that, and I said, Well, if youcan show me something better
than A.
B.
Combs, I might uh consider it.
No one could ever show meanything better than than than

(01:07:10):
what we had, because we foundour teachers would say being
taught the seven habits isprofessional development was the
greatest personal gift and thebest professional gift they had
ever been given.

(01:07:30):
Because mostly we invest in ourteachers in our curriculums, in
our, you know, whatever it iswe're working on, but investing
in them as people to become touse these habits to build a
better life for themselves, tobe more effective uh in their

(01:07:52):
relationships with others, to bemore efficient in um in tasks
that um really are cultivated byefficiency.
They learned that in the sevenhabits.
And they would come back andsay, Thank you.
I'm a better teacher, I'm abetter friend, I'm a better

(01:08:14):
partner, I'm a better spouse.
And um never had I heard, and Isaid it myself, never had
anyone poured into meprofessionally where I got such
amazing outcomes personally.
Um our students, oh Drew, Ihave so many stories, but our

(01:08:37):
students would say to me, I hadthe courage to do this in middle
school because I had, Ithought, begin with the end in
mind.
Um recently I received an emailfrom a former student who was
applying for a job with Google,and it was narrowed down to like

(01:09:00):
four candidates, and he was oneof them.
And he called me and he said,Any advice for me?
And I hadn't talked with himsince he left elementary school,
but I had that kind ofrelationship with my students,
and I said, just be you.
Talk about leadership, talkabout these softer skills if
they come up.

(01:09:20):
Well, he landed the job, he gotthe job, and he attributed it
to what he had learned aboutleadership.
In fact, the interviewers atGoogle said to him, You're so
young, you're just right out ofcollege.
How do you know so much aboutleadership?
Where did you learn so muchabout leadership?
And he said, from my elementaryschool.

(01:09:42):
And they all laughed, but hesaid, No, really, you know, I
was taught the seven habits ofhighly effective people, and I
continued to grow in my ownleadership development after I
left elementary school.
So every student that I haveencountered that is now in the

(01:10:04):
workforce, and there are many,they will say the greatest gift
that they ever got in any oftheir schooling was the gift of
how to lead and how to serveothers.
And to me, that's probably thegreatest legacy any of us could
ever have is that we have helpedour students not only do well

(01:10:28):
while they're in school, butmore importantly to do well
after they leave school.
And I think that's truly ourmission is to help children lead
productive, happy lives afterthey lead us, leave us because
of what we taught them whilethey were with us.

Drew Janetzki (01:10:48):
Yeah.
And that story shows thelong-term impact right there,
exactly, like exactly thepurpose of the mission of what
Seven Habits of Highly EffectivePeople is and what Leader and
Me is all about.
So sharing that story shows thelongitudinal data sets of what

(01:11:14):
the impact is from an elementaryschool, stayed with them
through to when they go into theworkforce.
What a powerful story.
Thank you for sharing.
Yeah.

Muriel Summers (01:11:24):
Well, and I would also add to that that you
know, we're leading in a worldum that none of us can possibly
predict what the future's gonnalook like.
So what are the skills, theskills that we can give our
children now, that no matter howrapidly changing our world is,

(01:11:47):
it will serve them well in theworld in which they live.
And um, I think the hab I don'tthink I know these habits are
the answer to that for sure.

Drew Janetzki (01:11:58):
Yeah, well, it's perfect segue, because uh we I'd
like to go into the future ofleadership in schools, and you
have touched on that.
Looking ahead, some somethoughts for you.
What if you look at the nextdecade of school leadership, and
as we said, there are so manyvariables, it seems to be a

(01:12:18):
common theme, there's alwaysit's always changing with so
many things coming through.
What do you think the nextdecade of school leadership will
look like?
And where do you see the whatdo you see the role of
principals, how they'reevolving, particularly in the
times of global change anduncertainty?
And lastly, how is FranklinCovey education adapting to

(01:12:42):
ensure programs continue to meetthe needs of leaders and
learners?
Okay.

Muriel Summers (01:12:47):
I may have to ask you to repeat some of those
questions.

Drew Janetzki (01:12:50):
Sure.
I just wanted to really promptthe thinking there.
Yeah.

Muriel Summers (01:12:55):
I think in terms of what does leadership look
like, um it will no longer be acommand and control kind of
leadership.
Um, Stephen M.
R.
Covey, Dr.
Cubby's son, who wrote the bookThe Speed of Trust and now
Trust and Inspire, um, thisgeneration of students in the

(01:13:20):
workforce, they're not going tothrive in that kind of
environment.
It worked for the industrialage, but not for the knowledge
worker.
And our children are not are inthe world of knowledge workers.
I think leadership will notjust be in the principal's

(01:13:41):
office when you talk about whata school leadership looks like.
It will be shared leadership,shared leadership amongst the
teachers, the students, um, andparents.
Um I think it will certainly,schools will certainly need to
build a strong foundation ontrust and transparency to um

(01:14:04):
survive.
Um and every person in aschoolhouse will be um
responsible for helping to shapethe culture of the school, with
the students being at the verycenter of everything that they
do.
What is in the best interest ofour students and how can we
help them?

(01:14:25):
What do we need to teach themto help them be the leaders of
tomorrow?
Um I also think leadership ingeneral will be more
human-centered.
Um, the number one leadershiptrait that um employees are
looking for in their employersis empathy.

(01:14:48):
They want to work for someoneuh whom they can trust.
They want to um also have avoice.
You know, when I think of thethree C's, if you will, of
leadership, I think of certainlyof connection, the importance
of connecting with others.

(01:15:09):
I also think of compassion.
Um, we want to work for someonewho is compassionate and also
someone who has strongcharacter.
Um you know, that's whatemployees are looking for.
That's what teachers arelooking for in a leader.

(01:15:30):
They're looking for someone whowill allow them to have a voice
and say they want to lead andthey want to serve.
Um, and they want their giftsand talents recognized as well.
Um one of my favorite storiesabout the leadership for
tomorrow um was during COVID, weall had to step up.

(01:15:51):
You know, we were workingremotely, and I thought, I, you
know, I thought I knew the giftsand talents of our staff, but
it wasn't until I asked this onequestion we got to get through
this.
What will be your most distinctcontribution as an individual

(01:16:15):
that will help us get to thenext level or help us get
through this?
And so when I asked a distinctcontribution, that's when people
started sharing their talents,talents that I didn't even know
they had true.
And I had been with them forover 20 years.
So that one question enabled usto take what the staff said and

(01:16:40):
place them in positions oftheir own passion, but also of
their greatest contribution.
And I would have to say COVIDwas one of our finest hours as a
staff because of that, leading,leading um by asking others how
the best lead.
So I think that's what thisgeneration's looking for.

(01:17:03):
And there's research that saysthe average student graduating
from a career or college um willhave at least, could have as
many as 35 different roles,different jobs during their
professional career becausethey're always looking for

(01:17:27):
something better until they canfind it.
And they're not going to standworking for someone who does not
allow them to give up theirtalents to the organization.
They'll leave, they'll gosomewhere else where someone
allowed them to do that.

Drew Janetzki (01:17:46):
Yeah.
So qu I've heard leadershipreally does matter, Muriel, in
that and and as you go back tobefore you said looking in the
genius in others as well.
And I also heard the humanityskills, how refreshing to hear
in this age of artificialintelligence and the real push

(01:18:07):
in that space, which can givefeedback, but I really heard
humanity, those humanity skillsof trust as well, are so
prevalent and so and will be soimportant, which is what
Franklin Carvey educationprovides.
So yeah, it just reassuring interms of for people for our

(01:18:28):
colleagues listening or forprincipals educational leaders
listening in.
I was going to finish with whatis one message for if it all
principals listening here today,what would it be?
What could you share?
And that's a very narrow, butum what's one piece of advice

(01:18:50):
for them in in terms of you knowleading leading, for example, a
leader in me school?

Muriel Summers (01:18:57):
Well you know, I thought I've been asked this
question a lot since I retiredas a principal.
Um, you know, what do you missmost and what would you do
differently?
I miss being a principal everyday of my life.
And I didn't realize I gotcaught up in the thick of very

(01:19:23):
thin things.
I would say the most importantthing we do is leave our heart
print, if you will, on the livesof everyone we serve, from the
smallest child to the oldestadult in the building, that we
put relationships above allelse, building strong,

(01:19:49):
meaningful, purposefulrelationships with others.
I would have not I would havealways made sure that I was
eating lunch with this withstudents every day, that I would
have enough time built in, asystem built in to just talk

(01:20:11):
with teachers when they needed,just um to have a conversation.
Um, because relationshipsreally are the key to everything
being successful.
Um my advice would be don'tsweat the small stuff and don't
forget what is most important.
And that's knowing your why,the purpose behind what you're

(01:20:36):
doing, what why you're doingwhat you're doing, and to never
ever miss the opportunity to sitdown beside a child, eat a
sandwich with the child or withthe teacher, and just to get to
know them by loving them,knowing them as to love them,

(01:20:58):
and uh helping each child seetheir worth and potential.
And that was Dr.
Covey's beautiful definition ofleadership: communicating
someone's worth and potential soclearly that they're inspired
to see it in themselves.

Drew Janetzki (01:21:15):
Oh, beautiful words, beautiful words, Muriel,
and very, very inspiring.
And look, thank you so much forjoining us today.
It's been an absolute honor,pleasure, so inspiring in terms
of the work, the mission, whatLeader and Me does, how it's
transformed schools.

(01:21:36):
It's not a it's not just a it'snot a short-term, it's a
long-term process.
There are going to benon-negotiables, but it's all
worth it in terms of looking atthe impact and hearing those
those stories of in different,not only in AB Homes School, but

(01:21:59):
also across the globe.
And yeah, we're reallyprivileged to have you and and
talk us through that.
Um so thank you again forjoining us.

Muriel Summers (01:22:09):
Drew, thank you.
The honor is all mine, and Icertainly want to say to every
educator listening, what a giftyou are.
Um, and every child needs you.
What you do does indeed matter.

(01:22:30):
And I would like to end bysaying um never forget that
children will learn more whenthey know that a teacher cares
um over any other strategy thatwe can use.
So get to know your studentsand sort of push the curriculum
to the side and just teachchildren.

(01:22:52):
Just teach, you know what todo.
Great teachers have been doingit for hundreds of years.
Just teach children and you'llbe just fine.

Drew Janetzki (01:23:02):
Uh great words of advice.
Thank you, Muriel Summers.

Muriel Summers (01:23:07):
Thank you, Drew.

Drew Janetzki (01:23:13):
Well, what an inspiring conversation with
Muriel Summers.
What were your takeaways fromthis episode?
And what are your actions goingto be from here?
For me, it was leadership isn'tan add-on, it's a culture you
could create.
Other points I noted were startsmall, focus on two or three of

(01:23:36):
those clear goals and do themwith excellence.
Another point I wrote down wastrue leadership is about
relationships, trust, andempowering others.
Students, staff, and communityalike, and you could really hear
that through Muriel.
Muriel reminded us that everychild has genius, and our role

(01:23:58):
as leaders is to see it, nurtureit, and help them shine.
Thanks again for joining us onthe New South Wales PPA
Professional Learning'sEducational Leadership Podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please share it with
colleagues, subscribe on yourfavourite platform, and you
could even leave us a positivereview.

(01:24:21):
Your support helps us continueto bring global voices in
leadership to principals acrossNew South Wales, across
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