June 5, 2025 • 52 mins
Anxiety levels among students are skyrocketing, dramatically affecting their ability to tackle challenges and participate fully in school life. Project Lead Rob Walker (Evans River K-12 School) and Trish Peters (Kincumber PS) member of the project leadership team join us to share remarkable findings from The Anxiety Project, a groundbreaking initiative now implemented in 129 schools across Australia, reaching nearly 47,000 students.
The project emerged from a critical observation: despite well-intentioned efforts, the accommodations schools were making for anxious students weren't actually building resilience. "We're providing so many accommodations that we haven't set kids up for success in secondary school," Trish explains, highlighting how primary schools were unintentionally creating dependency rather than capability. The solution? A comprehensive, whole-community approach that empowers adults to stand beside children through challenges rather than solving problems for them.
What makes this project uniquely effective is its layered implementation model involving every stakeholder – school leaders, teachers, non-teaching staff, parents and students all receive specifically designed training and support over a two-year period. This creates consistent messaging and a common language around anxiety. The results are compelling, with data showing significant, measurable reductions in student anxiety over time. One school reduced its anxiety score from 19.78 to 10.53 within just 12 months. Perhaps most surprising is the profound impact on teacher wellbeing, with educators reporting renewed satisfaction in their profession as they witness tangible improvements in student resilience.
Interested in transforming your school's approach to anxiety? Visit the NSW PPA website to learn more about the project and access expression of interest forms. Mid-year intake closes 16 June 2025. As project leaders envision, the ultimate goal is nothing short of "a less anxious generation" – an outcome that benefits not just education, but society as a whole.
Links to the Anxiety Project:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/the-anxiety-project
Links and References:
To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning
To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Drew (00:01):
Welcome back to Professional Learning's, the New
South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
It's great to have your company.
This podcast aligns to thevalues of the New South Wales
Primary Principals Association,that is, the values of principal
wellbeing, principals as leadlearners, as well as supporting
principals to lead schooloperations.
(00:24):
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates, as well assupporting principals to lead
school operations.
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates.
Now let's get into today'slatest episode.
In this episode, we shine alight on the Anxiety Project,
(00:45):
which is a vital initiativeresponding to the rising tide of
student anxiety in our schools.
Joining us today in our podcastis Rob Walker and Trish Peters,
both former New South Wales PPAstate executive members and
current project leads.
They bring deep insight andfresh findings from the latest
data, offering practicalstrategies and system
perspectives to support studentwell-being.
(01:07):
Let's dive in.
Rob (01:11):
Well, there was a report published in 2019 which showed
that anxiety levels amongst kidswas having an impact on the
quality of work going on inschools.
It was something that principalswere right across Australia
saying was a negative in theircapacity to build kids to be the
best versions of themselves.
(01:32):
It was also consuming a lot oftheir time and distressing for
staff trying to get on withtheir work as teachers but
unable to because of the impactof anxiety.
That concern was brought forwardto the New South Wales PPA
State Executive, where Trish andI were members at the time and
we were given the task ofvisiting a session offered by a
child psychologist, michaelHorton, and I went along to that
(01:56):
session and came back and spokewith Trish and the other
members of the State Executiveand suggested that there's two
things we could look at here.
One is this is a health issueit's not really an education
issue and we could put it in thebasket of the health department
or we could look at it as achild wellbeing issue and an
issue that was impacting on thewellbeing of our colleague
(02:16):
principals and the staff atschools and do something with
the information shared in thereport and to look at the sorts
of things that the PPA might beable to provide, and so the
decision of the state executivewas that we would move forward
with the design of the project.
Trish and I and other membersof our leadership team from
(02:39):
Michael's company Parent Shopcame together over a three-year
window to produce the project,and that's given us a project
that we've now been working fora further three years on
delivering in schools.
Drew (02:54):
Yeah, that's an interesting insight, and for you
, trish Peters Well, I was verymotivated by the fact that Rob
Walker took the lead ininvestigating some other parent
education projects and when hewas tasked with the
responsibility of taking thisforward, I wanted to support him
(03:15):
in his endeavour, becausestudent wellbeing is a real
passion of mine and,interestingly, I would disagree
straight away that it's a healthissue.
Trish (03:23):
One of the reasons that I was particularly motivated to
want to join this project was Ican see in my own school and by
speaking with my colleagues thatthe manifestation of anxious
behaviours in students isstopping teachers and schools
from doing really solid workwith kids and getting them to be
challenged.
So it's hard to have highexpectations in a school where
(03:45):
you're constantly having tolower expectations because of
anxious behaviours.
What I also saw was teachersworking hard to provide
adjustments or accommodationsfor students to manage a variety
of anxious behaviours, and ittakes quite a bit of time and
planning to be able to do it.
But what we noticed was theseaccommodations and adjustments
(04:09):
weren't actually helping us tomeet the goals of getting kids
to take up challenges, developresilience, and we've always had
a focus on resilience andwellbeing in the Department of
Education and there was a greatopportunity to develop this
whole of community approach athe PBL approach, where
(04:31):
everyone's involved to be ableto address anxious behaviours
that were preventing kids fromdoing everyday things going out
to the playground, working witha different casual teacher, you
know, maybe changing classes,maybe learning how to get on a
bus and get home, playing withnew friends, being able to
navigate just everyday kind ofchallenges.
(04:53):
So that was what motivated meto take this on and, as a leader
, those accommodations.
obviously that's what you think,as a leader, we're doing is the
right thing in terms of whathas been the learnings as a
leader through this project.
(05:14):
Can I just add something inthere, one of the things that
I've also noticed.
Rob's at a K-12 school, andthere may be a different, he may
have a different context, butI'm thinking of many of my
primary colleagues.
What we're doing is we'reproviding so many accommodations
and adjustments for ourstudents and when we go from
year six to year seven, weactually haven't set them up for
(05:36):
, I don't believe, theconditions that might be in
their local secondary school,which is, you know, you have to
deal with a range of differentteachers, you're going to have
to navigate new friendships,you're going to have to do
things that are really quitechallenging, that you've never
experienced before, and one ofthe things that I've spoken
about with my colleagues iswe're actually not setting our
(05:57):
six kids up for success insecondary school.
So it's probably different.
In Rob's school, where it's aK-12 environment, They've got
that natural transition.
I don't know, rob, what do youthink?
Rob (06:08):
Well, there's probably a couple of points I'd make here.
First of all, I just want to goback to something you said a
second ago, and then I want toput in a differentiation between
the accommodations, orunhelpful accommodations, and
the adjustments With the parents.
Certainly, working in schools,I know principals find parents
will often come forwardexpressing uncertainty about how
(06:29):
to handle things their kid'spresenting, and so I could see
that we, over a period of timeas a principal, I could see that
we were working really, reallyhard as a system of educators
across the country to reallyrefine teaching practice and
what we were doing in classroomsand in school settings with
kids.
But I felt strongly that withthe feedback I was getting from
(06:51):
parents and the struggles thatthey were experiencing, that it
was a bit odd or even a bitcrazy in our world that we don't
educate for parenthood.
We educate for so many thingsin this life and we don't
educate for parenthood veryeffectively or very often.
I mean there are some very goodprograms operating but they're
not widely undertaken andthey're not certainly programs
(07:13):
that are.
You know there's structuralarrangements put in place by
governments to see that themajority of parents have the
opportunity to recognize thereare things that kids go through
at certain stages quite commonlyand here are some suggestions
that you might consider using inthose circumstances.
Everyone's recreating the wheelin every family with every new
(07:34):
generation, rather than pickingup on things or perhaps
reflecting on their ownchildhood.
I often hear parents saying,well, I'm absolutely not doing
what my parents did with me, orI turned out okay, so I'm going
to do what my parents did withme.
So you get both those kinds ofcomments being made.
But certainly parents haveshared frustrations with being
uncertain about how to handlethings with kids and you know we
(07:57):
want kids to grow to be theirbest and we want parents to grow
to know and understand how bestto help their children grow to
be their best.
The second thing I want to talkabout was just put a line in
the sand over some phrasing here.
We talk in the project and we'repromoting the messaging of
unhelpful accommodations thatadults put around kids Trish has
(08:20):
just referenced those and wealso talk about making
adjustments to teaching programsto refine work so that our work
is individualized to students.
They're two different things andthe project puts the staff
teaching and non-teaching staffin schools through an experience
and a learning process ofunderstanding the difference
between what is an unhelpfulaccommodation where, effectively
(08:42):
, adults around a child aretaking from that child learning
moments.
The metaphor I use in my mind iswe as adults, whether we're
parents or whether we're schoolstaff need to be standing beside
a child and allow them to sitin discomfort when things come
at them and talk them throughwhat's occurring, not step in
front of the child, solve theissue.
(09:04):
They're standing behind ourback and they don't really see
or understand or know what it isthat are their choices or
knowing what to do.
So one of the big learnings ofthe project for all the adults
involved is to know how to standbeside a child, allow them to
sit in discomfort and allow themto move forward in their
(09:24):
learning of how to manage thingsand understand how their body
functions.
We particularly use bodymessaging that kids can pick up
in the early years of school sothey understand how their mind
is working and they learntechniques for emotional control
.
We found it to be veryeffective in reducing anxious
behaviours in kids.
Drew (09:44):
We found it to be very effective in reducing anxious
behaviours in kids?
Yeah, and in terms of justelaborating on that, is that in
terms of the anxiety project assuch, how is that we've covered
in our discussion so far?
We've covered teachers, we'vecovered leaders, we've discussed
(10:15):
parents.
We've also discussed students.
How does this projectessentially tackle all of those
things?
We will go to research andevidence, but I guess for our
uninformed listeners, what doesthe anxiety project, how can we
cover all of those facets thatwe've said, and either Trish or
Rob, I'll let you take up onthat.
Rob (10:33):
Yeah, I'm happy to pick that up, Drew.
The key message I would put outhere is that the Anxiety
Project has layers ofintervention, layers of support.
So there is, firstly, whenschools are considering being
involved.
There are information sessionsthat we provide, which enables
the school to assess whether ornot this is for them.
(10:55):
They can have a look at whattheir commitments would be.
They can have a look at theofferings that we would put
forward.
So they go forward knowing thatthere are certain things that
they will need to have in placeat the school.
These are not insurmountables.
These are the things thatprincipals do every day when
they're organising for projectsto come in, but there are
commitments expected from theschool.
The other thing that I wouldsay training.
(11:16):
It is ly fundamental to havethe l leader on board,
,understanding t is that thelayers of the project involve
school leader training and in aposition of confidence to lead
the project over the two-yearduration.
The project runs in the school.
Each school involved has acoach.
That's the person within theschool who is the champion for
the project, who is supportingthe staff, who's making sure
(11:38):
that the tasks involved indelivering the project over that
two-year window are on track,and that person receives, with
the school leader, quite deepand purposeful organisation and
quite deep understanding of whatwe're trying to achieve with
the kids and how they think andhow the staff work and the
parents work with the kids.
(11:59):
But also the organisationalsupport is there for them and
I'll talk a little bit moreabout that organisational
support in a sec.
The teacher training and thenon-teaching staff training is
broken up into a series of videosegments with introductions and
closing remarks.
They are led by the coaches whoare trained to support those
(12:21):
sessions.
The sessions themselves aredelivered by Michael and his
team from the parent shop andthe coaches then lead through
sessions that unpack those withthe staff.
It's flexible.
There's varying amounts of time.
If you want to run two or threevideo clips as a school in one
session because you can make aschool development day session
(12:42):
available if you just want to doone click clip clip and make it
part of a staff meeting, youcan do that, but there's a
window of time available todeliver the project.
The other thing, then, is thatwe have built into the training
program a session with Michaeland his teams If there are
questions that come forwardduring the sessions delivered by
the coach that need follow-upby Michael and his team.
(13:06):
That session is on offer, andso then we have lesson delivery
for the kids.
There are seven lessons.
They're stage.
Appropriate Stage is one, twoand three.
There's a year A year B modelfor the lessons and they're all
appropriate to the age level ofthe child, and I mentioned some
of the content areas of thoselessons.
(13:26):
They are delivered by theclassroom teachers, supported by
the coaches, the people whoreally know the kids very well.
There are parents-revingsessions that follow on.
These are conducted wheneverthe school feels they're suited.
They're led by the coach.
The coaches are trained in thedelivery of the sessions with
the parents using contentprovided by Parent Shop and
(13:47):
Michael, the child psychologist,and his team.
We have fortnightly cafes forthe coaches where they have the
opportunity to sharpen the sawwith their skills with each
other, and we have principalcafes every turn to make sure
the principals are strong andconfident in how to lead.
There are newsletters providedwith deeper professional
(14:08):
learning and also support to thecoaches to keep them on track
with the tasks involved.
And finally, we have all ofthis brought together on
LearnWorlds, our learningmanagement system, a very
comprehensive place online thatthe coaches can go to to share
information with each other.
Trish, what have I left outthere?
Trish (14:26):
I don't think you've left out anything.
What I want to say is the pointof difference for this
particular project is that itdoes cover all of those layers,
so it doesn't rely on onechampion teacher going I think
this is a great idea it doesn'trely on just one person
implementing something in theschool or delivering something
(14:49):
that not everyone else isgetting.
The point of difference is thatit's consistent right across
the board and the way all of thelayers intertwine and
interconnect.
You don't miss anyone in yourschool community.
You've got parents, you've gotstudents, you've got teachers,
you've got your school learningsupport officer staff.
Even your admin staff are allpart of this big picture.
When they all have the training, they're all able to deliver
(15:12):
consistent messaging.
It's the fidelity ofimplementation that's really
important and this project isbuilt around fidelity of
implementation and ongoingsustainability, because what
we're trying to do is develop ina whole school community, a
have-a-go culture.
So it's all of these layersthat combine to provide the
support that you need.
(15:33):
Those face-to-face interactionsyou know on the Zoom cafes are
so very important.
You build sets of connection,collective efficacy.
You know we're working reallystrongly with our implementation
coaches, who are like yourinstructional leaders in your
school to help maintain, sustain, build capacity and build that
culture so that if the personleading the project goes, that
(15:56):
is maintained, you don't losethe benefit of all that hard
work.
Rob (16:01):
Drew, if I may, I might just talk a little bit about the
tools we're using to measurethe impacts.
It's one thing to talk aboutthe layers of delivery, but the
research component of theproject, which I know you've got
some questions you'd like tomove into more detail and I
think those questions will stillbe appropriate.
But I just wanted to say thatthe other arm or the other layer
of the project here, is that weare measuring impact.
(16:23):
We measure before we doanything in the school setting
and then we take measures everysix months on the impact on
anxious behaviours on kids andwe take measures of shifting
staff confidence in recognisinganxiety and knowing what to do
and then we take measures ofparent reductions in their
unhelpful accommodations.
(16:44):
So those measures are usinguniversity level instruments.
But what's really exciting isthe news that we've been brought
to the floor most recently.
Drew (16:58):
Yeah, perfect segway there, Rob Walker.
In terms of just recapping whatyou both have said, though, in
terms of the whole, what anopportunity for leaders and
school change of lay support.
It's a two-year project.
There's a coach, an internalcoach, there's sessions with
(17:19):
expert psychologist MichaelHorton and his team.
There's comprehensive amount ofresources.
It's a whole school changeprogram.
It's ongoing with sustainablepractices, sustainable practices
(17:40):
and now 2025.
We've heard all of thebackground of the why we've
talked about the layers ofsupport.
Let's not now talk about we'vein 2025, about the data and the
impact so far of the project.
Rob walker, can you lead usthrough that?
Rob (17:54):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So look, I am going to namesome schools here, but I'm not
going to link the data that I'mgoing to share directly with the
schools.
But I think it's moremeaningful for our colleagues to
hear the names of schools thatare involved in this project and
perhaps they know the colleagueprincipal there and want to
talk about what's going on.
So schools like William DeanPublic School, jamieson Town
Public School, pennant HillsPublic School, strathfield North
(18:19):
, public Cardiff Public School,bellingen, warratah West,
charlestown, kirkhill North,manly Vale, warilla North,
chitaway Bay, woodport,claremont, meadows, bangalow
Public School these are allschools in varying settings that
are all showing that, from theT0 measure, which is the first
measure we take before anyintervention is undertaken, to
the T1 measure, which is sixmonths later, a measure of
(18:43):
whether or not there's been areduction in anxious behaviours
in kids, to the T2 measure,another six months later, so 12
months from the first capture,these schools are showing
reductions in anxious behavioursin their Yeah, yeah, sure.
So look, I am going to namesome schools here, but I'm not
going to link the data that I'mgoing to share directly with the
schools.
But I think it's moremeaningful for our colleagues to
hear the names of schools thatare involved in this project and
perhaps they know the colleagueprincipal there and want to
talk about what's going on.
So schools like William DeanPublic School, Jamieson Town
Public School, pennant HillsPublic School, Strathfield
North, public Cardiff PublicSchool, Bellingen, Waratah West,
Charlestown, Curl Curl NorthNorth, Manly Vale, Warilla
North, Chitaway Bay, Wood Port,Claremont Meadows, Bangalow
Public School these are allschools in varying settings that
are all showing that, from theT0 measure, which is the first
measure we take before anyintervention is undertaken, to
the T1 measure, which is sixmonths later, a measure of
whether or not there's been areduction in anxious behaviours
in kids, to the T2 measure,another six months later, so 12
months from the first captures.
The schools are also showing andthey're a subset.
There's 129 schools that eitherhave been or are involved in the
(19:05):
project.
There's just under 47,000students involved in the project
and approximately 3,500 staffand 2,500 parents directly
involved in what's going on inthe project through the sessions
that we're running, so it's gota big footprint.
You're right, it's a wholeschool community change project,
hence the commitments that weask for schools at the front end
(19:29):
of the project.
But the data that we're seeinghere is showing consistent
reductions now, and this isreally the first time we're
sharing this data publicly Somepeople might have heard feedback
about the project over time,but today this podcast is
sharing with colleagues that weare seeing consistent reductions
in anxious behaviours in kids.
(19:49):
We've known that the project'sbeen delivering increases in
staff confidence in identifyinganxious behaviours and knowing
what to do next.
But we're also now sharing.
For the first time we've gotdata showing us that there are
reductions in unhelpfulaccommodations by parents, and
so all of this is packagingtogether to seeing a positive
(20:10):
outcome for the kids in ourschools.
Drew (20:13):
Yeah, so let's pick up.
Sorry, Trish, I was going tosay let's pick up on the data.
Would you like to elaboratefurther on what Rob said?
Trish (20:19):
I don't want to elaborate on the data.
I just want to talk about whatwe're using to be able to
measure.
So one of the things we'retrying to measure is teacher
confidence in identifyinganxious behaviours and then
their confidence in being ableto deal with anxious behaviours.
And that's pretty significantbecause in your classroom you're
(20:39):
wanting to work out how you'regoing to approach your overall
approach in dealing with anxiousbehaviours and stopping those
unhelpful accommodations thatprevent kids from doing regular
everyday things.
So we ask teachers to talkabout, assess their confidence
and their ability to addressanxious behaviours.
The other thing we do is, with arandom sample of students, we
(21:02):
ask teachers to assess thelevels of anxious behaviours.
So they don't have to know whatanxious behaviours are, because
the instrument that we usegives the examples and asks you
to rate the level of theseanxious behaviours that you see
in particular students.
And then what we're looking forsome time later in the T1
(21:24):
collection is has that changed,you know, has that level changed
?
So the instruments aren't hardto deliver and they're classroom
focused.
So when they're looking atanxious behaviours we're not
talking about outside things.
What does it look like in anactual classroom?
And those are the things thatteachers know and can easily
(21:45):
identify.
So those measures, even thoughthey're university instruments,
relate to teachers' everydaywork.
That was pretty much what Iwanted to say.
Drew (21:56):
Yeah, thanks, Trish.
What's your perspective?
Rob Walker, what's?
Rob (21:59):
up Drew.
I just want to say Trish hasmade a really important comment
there, so let's be clear aboutthe measures and the time that's
involved in doing the capture.
The staff are doing a reportevery six months on six kids
from their class.
Each report takes two to threeminutes.
On completing a survey it's thesame survey on each occasion.
(22:21):
The staff complete a survey onthemselves, a staff
self-assessment teaching ornon-teaching staff and we're
seeing schools involve not onlytheir classroom teachers but
also their SLSOs or theirteacher's aides, depending on
what sector you're in and alsothe SEOs in the school, because
(22:44):
they're often looking after thesick bay or the clinic whatever
it is that it's called in yourschool and they will see
firsthand where those kids aregoing.
So these data captures arequite manageable experiences and
we're seeing now moreconsistent data coming through
from the schools in reportingthese reductions in anxious
(23:07):
behaviours and increases inconfidence and reductions in the
accommodations from the adultsaround the kids accommodations
from the adults around the kids.
Drew (23:18):
Okay, so just to confirm that the data capture is of the
teacher teaching in theirclassroom and their data set is
the six students within theirown context.
Correct me if I'm wrong there.
Rob (23:32):
Yeah, no spot on.
There's six students per class.
It's a random sample of therole, so you're not picking the
six most anxious kids or leastanxious kids.
It is a random sample ofstudents from each class that's
involved in the project and wetake a measure of those six kids
every six months and a shift inthose kids, and it takes two to
(23:53):
three minutes for the teacherto complete the survey on that
child.
The other thing I was going tosay is that Trish alluded to
this and I think it's worthemphasising that we're not
talking about additional layersof work for school staff here.
These are conversations that weare shaping that staff are
already having with kids,whether they're in the classroom
(24:14):
or in the playground.
Staff are already talking aboutanxious behavi having with kids
, whether they're in theclassroom or in the playground.
Staff are already talking aboutanxious behaviours with kids,
but what happens here is thatthey learn how to guide those
conversations and they learn howto pick up cues and where to go
with them.
So that's a key differentiator,I think, for staff.
The other thing I would say isthe lessons being delivered are
in keeping with the PD Health PEsyllabus, so they're not across
(24:36):
the national curriculum.
So they're not things that areoutside or in addition to our
work.
They are very much part of ourwork.
So we're not talking aboutadditional workload here.
These are conversations thatwe're already having with kids,
but they're going to befollowing training, they're
going to be more purposeful andhave better outcomes, and the
lesson materials are providedand recommendations for
(24:58):
resources and support isprovided through the cafes to
the coaches on how to guidestaff in the delivery of those
lessons.
Drew (25:06):
Okay, terrific.
So in terms of then, the samequestions are being asked
throughout the duration of theproject.
There's facets known as T0measures, which is a baseline,
then we've got a T1 and T2measures.
What are we seeing currently?
Now, rob with the data.
Rob (25:28):
So I will share some numbers with you.
Without giving away the namesof schools, so let's just call
this one School 1.
Without giving away the namesof schools, so let's just call
this one School 1.
They recorded a score of 13.67.
And the score is at T0.
The score is a numericrepresentation of the levels of
anxiety presenting in thatparticular school.
(25:53):
At the T0 interval they'reshowing a reduction to 13.33 at
six-month measure, a small shift.
We're kind of not surprisedsometimes where the schools show
a smaller shift at the T1measure because we're also
removing from kids the unhelpfulaccommodations so that in
itself can cause more anxiousresponses from kids.
(26:16):
But this particular school I'mlooking at at the moment has
then six months again later so12 months from the initial
measure their scores dropped to9.11.
So you can see that over timethat school's recorded
reductions in the number ofanxious behaviours.
So it's that kind of consistentdata that we're seeing, showing
(26:38):
reductions over time.
I perhaps could pick one otherschool that I think has shown
quite a remarkable reduction,but there's a number of them
here in front of me that I'mlooking at A score dropping from
19.78 at the initial measure to13.07 to 10.53 at the 12-month
marker, so reductions in anxiousbehaviours.
(26:59):
The other thing that'sinteresting here is that we
provide comparative data with astatistically similar school
group, using the same principlesof how those SSGs are formed
when we're looking at our NAPLANresults or the other data that
CC uses to assess change inschools.
So what's interesting aboutthese schools is that they are
(27:22):
closing the gap between theirschool and the SSG.
So, for example, in the schoolthat I just mentioned, 19.37 is
their initial score.
The SSG was at 13.19.
So this school that I'mreferring to now had relatively
high levels of anxiety and theywere about six points away from
(27:43):
the SSG.
At the next measure they hadclosed the gap to just two to
three points 13.98 with the SSGat 11.23.
Hoping I'm not losing you withthe numbers here, but the bottom
line is these schools areclosing the gap and getting
closer to the SSG and we alsohave whole of cohort data and
(28:03):
they're closing the gap in thatspace as well.
So, as I said, you know somereally impressive results across
the board from large numbers ofschools now coming into as a
result of the data collectionsassociated with the project.
Numbers of schools now comingin as a result of the data
collections associated with theproject.
Trish (28:17):
Well, rob, I'd like you to come here and just talk about
why it's not because it's acompetition or it's something to
put in your school plan to go,you know, reduced here.
Knowing these differences helpsus then to target the support,
the ongoing support that weprovide all the participants.
So when we can see all of thestatistically similar groups and
(28:41):
the reductions we go, what'sthat school doing that's making
it get such good results and howcan we leverage what they're
doing for others?
So we have our Zoom cafes wherewe share information and good
practice, and then annually, wehave a showcase day where we
invite some of those schools whoare doing very well and have
(29:03):
got some excellent practice toshare with the rest of the
cohort.
And it's pretty profoundbecause, as I said, it targets
the ongoing support that we have.
It might direct us to havingdifferent readings uploaded to
the LearnWorlds platform andthat type of thing.
So it's an iterative process,using the data to be able to
(29:24):
work on what we need to do nextto be able to support project
participants.
Drew (29:31):
Trish.
So many good takeaways there,the learning fair just the sheer
amount of resources available,Rob.
Rob (29:39):
Walker, could you elaborate?
I'm not sure if I mentionedearlier Drew.
The cafes for the coaches are afortnightly exercise and we ask
the coaches what works best forthem and land on a time that
can occur.
For most coaches and for thecurrent cohort.
We're working on Thursdaymornings 8 to 8.45, and that's
the time that we all cometogether.
There's a session host forMichael's team.
(30:03):
Occasionally.
I'll host it, but it willdepend on the content areas and
the sorts of things that we'redoing.
There is really refiningpractice.
We're looking at what is goingon in the schools, what
different things people havetried, what results they have.
I'd have to say one of the mosthumbling experiences in leading
(30:23):
this project for Trish and I isthe amazing array of
innovations the coaches comeforward with and how they take
their learnings in the projectand shape them into things that
are most meaningful for theirschool communities.
It's astounding.
The talent in schools acrossthe country are astounding, and
(30:45):
I should say too I've saidacross the country a couple of
times.
The project started in NewSouth Wales public schools.
We have now schools from othersectors involved.
We have now schools from otherstates involved in the project
as well.
So it is growing and certainly,as we can now see, this is an
effective intervention to reduceanxious behaviours in kids and
(31:06):
it's certainly supporting kidsto get better schooling outcomes
and it's certainly putting.
That's another thing we shouldshare.
Drew, first time sharing,haven't shared this.
What one layer of the projectdoes?
The qualitative researchcomponent of the project takes
an interview style where theresearchers, which are at arm's
(31:27):
length from the leadership team,are in conversation with the
staff involved in delivering theproject and they record notes
on those conversations.
And the researchers recentlycame back to us and said one of
the things that you as aleadership team may not be aware
is this is having a verypositive impact on the wellbeing
of school staff.
They are saying I feel betterabout being a teacher because I
(31:51):
can see what I've learnedthrough this project is making a
difference for the kids that Iwork with every day.
So I know we've struggled a bitof recent times with the
teacher workforce and havingenough teachers to work with our
kids, but this is certainlymaking teachers, or taking
teachers to a place where theyfeel good about being in the
profession.
Drew (32:12):
Was that an unintended consequence?
Rob Walker.
Rob (32:16):
Being completely honest, drew, yes.
Profession Was that anunintended consequence?
Rob Walker?
Being completely honest, drew,yes, it's definitely a positive
outcome.
I suppose if we'd sat back andthought what is the impact on
the wellbeing of staff going tobe if the kids are showing
reductions in anxious behaviours, we probably could have
(32:36):
predicted that we were going toget what we've got.
But when it came from theresearchers who, as I said, are
from arm's length from theleadership team, we forwarded
information from thoseresearchers on what they've
captured.
Every data capture.
After the data capture windowcloses, they compile a report
and then provide it to us, andthen we have also a summary
(32:59):
report which brings together allthe data.
So this report that I'mreferring to is for the schools
that join at the beginning ofthe project.
We still provide informationthat schools, if they join
mid-year which is a possibilityin the year of 2025, that the
feedback that they will get onthe impact in their school
community will look different.
But those schools that join atthe commencement, every year
(33:21):
there's a report provided by thetertiary researchers we have
involved in the project and,irrespective either way, the
feedback you're getting isgiving you information at the
school level you can use toshape your work and refine your
practice and it also, as Trishalluded to earlier on, you can,
and most schools have got thisincorporated in their school
(33:43):
plan and you've got improvementmeasures that you can report on
and show shifts as a result ofthe energies that are going into
the delivery of the project inthe school.
Drew (33:53):
I was going to go to you, Trish, in terms of what we're
measuring.
We're measuring student levelsof anxiety.
The unintended consequences arethat what I've heard is that
the teacher's levels of anxietyhas reduced.
Are there other unintendedconsequences?
(34:13):
Or parents, is their anxietyreduced?
Can you elaborate further onany other measures that we may
have missed?
Trish (34:22):
I don't know that I can elaborate on parent anxiety, but
parents report feeling moresupported and feel like they've
actually got some direction,because parents are motivated by
wanting to do the very, verybest for their kids.
But when you give them thetraining and the support to be
able to understand thatsometimes what they're doing is
not helpful without blame,that's the really important part
(34:47):
to be able to get them on board.
And speaking of unintendedoutcomes or unintended
consequences unintended, youknow, unintended outcomes or
unintended consequences.
In cohort one we initially hadwe were taking data because our
coaches asked us to take data onevery student in the class.
And in cohort one, the schoolswho collected data on every
(35:08):
child in the class were able tosee those students who were in
the borderline, also the undercategories for anxiety, and it
helped them to then refer on totheir school counsellor, because
you have an obligation when youidentify something that's
significant, a significantproblem, to seek support.
So the measures that we use isfreely available from the
(35:30):
Macquarie University websitewhere it's parked with all their
other social and emotionalresources.
But schools use thatinformation to refer students on
and I think that was somethingthat we weren't expecting.
In cohort one, there was quite ahigh level, which surprised us,
of students who had quitesevere anxious behaviours that
(35:54):
right up to now hadn't beenaddressed.
I think in terms of schoolplanning and I'm looking at how
you might triangulate this withother data sets reducing anxious
behaviours and developing thosehave-a-go cultures in a way
that every person can speak to astudent at school, I think
(36:19):
we'll see in the future we'll beable to tie some of that
success to the school refusalspace, because that's becoming
pretty significant, particularlyfor our younger students, when
we think our catered to studentswho may have been more solidly
affected by COVID.
There's a good deal of schoolanxiety there and having
(36:40):
teachers and SLSOs who canmanage at every point of a
conversation, addressing astudent's anxious expressions is
really, really helpful, ratherthan waiting for the learning
and support teacher or waitingfor the deputy principal to have
the conversation.
Everyone's skilled up to beable to do that and I think
(37:03):
probably hard to capture that insome other kind of data set,
but I suspect that you couldprobably be relating it to
anxious behaviour to do withattendance.
I know participation in justanecdotally at my school people
have spoken about the number ofkids who've actually started to
have a go at trying out forsports that they wouldn't have
(37:25):
tried out to do, participatingin a choir you know being.
Have a go, yeah, so yeah, Ithink yeah.
Drew (37:35):
I was going to say there's a lot of, I guess in
terms of the word we said istriangulation, but the
unintended consequences I'mhearing there could be the link
with improved attendance rates,improved or reduction of
suspensions.
For example, I've heardincrease of participation in uh,
(37:57):
the arts program, just due topotentially the flip side is
they, they've gone from being,their anxiety has been reduced
and now, as a result, theirconfidence levels have improved
and therefore, as a result, theyparticipate once they feel
enabled to be able toparticipate, which in terms of
(38:17):
measuring, that is a hard, butalso you could potentially see
those correlations.
Trish (38:27):
Well, I would say your high potential and gifted
education students too.
The flip side some of thosestudents suffer from extreme
anxieties about performance andwhen every teacher's on the same
page about how they can addressanxious behavior around
perfectionism not being able todo everything to the very best
(38:49):
of their ability ways to avoid.
It's pretty significant thatthese interventions are going to
be applied to the whole rangeof contexts, including those
children who are high performers.
Rob (39:03):
I just wanted to pick up Trish.
Yeah, I was going to say Trishhas almost covered the point I
was going to make Not quite,though I think the powerful
point that Trish has just sharedabout the staff all being on
the same page and she's used thecollective efficacy phrase
earlier in the conversation Ijust want to say that one of the
things that parents I hearcoming forward with is this
(39:23):
phrase of common language.
The parents really have valuedbeing in the same space in the
way we are talking aboutmanaging anxious behaviours that
kids may present with andknowing where to go.
So the project provides acommon language that the
teachers, the non-teaching staff, slsos or teachers' aides, that
the office staff, the schoolparents are all using, and
(39:47):
that's a very powerful space tobe in, especially when you have
an understanding of what you'retrying to achieve at the other
end of this.
The other thing Trish justmentioned was the have-a-go
attitude, and that's afundamental part of the project
is encouraging kids to have a go, to be comfortable with
something that doesn't work outperhaps the way they want to,
(40:08):
but knowing how to go forwardwith it from there.
So there's a lot of goodoutcomes here which are really
growing young people's capacitythrough their participation in
this project.
(40:33):
Well, I'm going to say we'verefined.
Well, look, trish will followme, I'm sure, look.
I just want to say I think overthe life of the project as a
leadership team we have seenwhat works well and we've seen
things that have still positiveimpact perhaps, but not as
(40:55):
powerfully as some other aspectsof what we're doing in the
project.
So we've really been able tohone our leadership of the
project and really sharpen thefocus and the things that matter
for the schools.
So I think the refining of thepractice in the schools that
have been involved in theproject over time we can see
what's working in schools.
We can see what's working bestin the delivery of the project.
(41:16):
We can see where the emphasison the different layers of
delivery of the project needs tobe placed.
And the other thing we've doneis we've got what we've said.
It's a two-year project in eachschool.
We've offered this year for thefirst time the sustaining
schools component to the project.
So there are schools now whohave put up their hand to be in
their third year of delivery ofthe project so that they are
(41:39):
still able to access the cafesfor principals and for the
coaches.
They're still accessing theonline learning system.
They're still accessingresearch capability.
So each of the elements of theproject is still available to
those schools and they're reallysharpening the saw on the work
they're doing with the kids andthe staff in this space and, of
(41:59):
course, their parents, trish.
Trish (42:02):
I'd like to just add to that that the STEERCO meets
annually and what we do is wereview our performance as a team
, as a project, and we recommendimprovements or innovations.
So, as I said, it's aniterative process and we go back
to what worked well, whatdidn't work well and working out
why it didn't work well andwhat we need to do.
(42:23):
So those of you, like me, whowere in cohort one would see the
very big difference betweencohort one and cohort three,
because we've made some majorimprovements, because we're
committed to ensuring thesustainability of these projects
, so that it's not a set andforget.
He will sell you a product andthen walk away.
(42:45):
What you've got is a verycommitted steer co that's going
to make sure that for the lifeof this work it's going to meet
your needs and it's going to beinnovative.
Rob (42:56):
Yeah, I think I just put a word of clarification in there,
drew.
So that's what Trish has justreferred to.
There is our deep dive, wherewe really look across all
aspects of delivery of theproject.
We come together with theresearchers.
We physically come together asa leadership team and really
unpack every aspect of whatwe're doing across the 12 months
and what impact it's had andwhat observations each of the
(43:19):
different members of thesteering committee have had as
we've been working through.
But we meet every fortnight.
We're together every fortnightas a leadership team.
We're looking at how theproject is travelling in the
moment and we're refining ourpractices and making adjustments
and we're making sure we'relistening carefully to the
feedback we're getting from thecoaches and the principals and
we're refining our practices andmaking adjustments.
And we're making sure we'relistening carefully to the
feedback we're getting from thecoaches and the principals and
(43:39):
we're looking at making surethat the next step that we take
within the next two weeks issomething that's going to really
work well for the schools.
So it's very much a dynamicprocess with very clear intended
outcomes, but very wellsupported and, point in time,
it's a really well put togetherproject in my view.
Drew (44:00):
Yeah, it's a real team effort in terms of the steer
coke working through, as yousaid, working through any
identified issues, such a hugedata set to draw upon.
But, as you've said, it's therefinement, ongoing refinement
of the processes and the resultsare very encouraging.
(44:22):
So, for principals or leadersor parents listening to this,
where to next in terms of thereis a midterm uptake and they're
listening and thinking I want myschool to be involved.
How could they go?
Rob (44:42):
about that process.
Rob Walker, yeah, look, thebest step they can take at this
stage, I mean is to go to thePPA's website under the tab of
professional learning, pull downand release on the anxiety
project.
There are flyers there thatprincipals and interested
parents who are perhaps part ofa PNC might want to put around
(45:03):
amongst a meeting that they'reholding and discuss it.
If it's a principal might wantto discuss with the school staff
or school executive.
If it's a parent, they may wantto sit down with the PNC.
I would normally expectprincipals to be at those
meetings, so it might besomething they'd put in front of
the principal prior and have aconversation with them to say
look, we're interested in thisproject, we'd like to
(45:25):
investigate it further.
So those flyers are there onthe website.
We also have an expression ofinterest form and the expression
of interest form.
People can fill that out andindicate that they are
interested and just need moreinformation, or that they are
interested and they're committedand they've set aside funding
to become involved in theproject.
So either way, it's okay.
(45:46):
We'll just provide support forwherever the school's at at that
time To move them forward.
They might say you know what,thanks, but not for us right now
, or maybe in the next 12 monthswhile we're winding up our
participation in a differentproject.
So timing it right for theschool picking up the project,
so it's going to work best inthat school setting.
But, yeah, it's awell-supported project.
(46:10):
Once you indicate interest,there's information around you
to help you have effectivediscussions to understand what
it is that the project offersand what commitments your school
would be entering into injoining the project.
Drew (46:24):
Yeah, terrific Thanks, Rob and Trish.
Trish (46:27):
And of interest.
Drew, the parent shop, whoworked with us to develop the
anxiety project, also offer asimilar project for our
secondary schools.
It's called RIOT.
So Resilience in Our Teens, andit replicates and mirrors the
same opportunity.
So in those communities wherethere's a need K-12, there's
(46:51):
always that available too.
Drew (46:55):
Particularly Trish.
When you talk about thetransition phase, as you said in
what you've seen and you goback to your why it was, you
were seeing this massive gapbetween the transition from the
primary setting into the highschool.
So it does make sense for theprimary schools to feed into
(47:18):
high schools that are doing theResilience in Teens, or known as
the RIOT project.
Trish (47:28):
Yeah, some of our schools have partnered with primary
schools as a learning communityto implement the anxiety project
and right yeah.
Rob (47:39):
Yeah, I was just going to say so.
You alluded to this earlier andI probably should have made
mention.
So we do have this time thisyear 2025, for the first time, a
mid-year intake for the project.
It would be the same as we'vediscussed through this
conversation, with one minoradjustment to how the research
component of the projectoperates, but other than that,
(48:02):
it's the same project forschools that have joined at the
beginning of each of the lastthree years and would be for
those schools that join at thebeginning of 2026.
A closed date for expressionsof interest.
Even if it's I'm interested andI need more information.
That expression of interestneeds to be in by the 16th of
(48:23):
June and the expression ofinterest form is on the PPA
website, as I said, underneathProfessional Learning tab.
Pull down and release on theAnxiety Project and you'll see
the expression of interest formthere with the flyers,
information, some links to somemore um television work that's
been done about the project andsome radio interviews and things
.
Drew (48:42):
All useful for unpacking, uh, what the project is with
your school community yeah,terrific in terms of the auis,
as we reca recapped Monday, the16th of June 2025,.
What's especially encouragingis that the data is showing
significant changes in teacherconfidence in recognising
(49:02):
anxiety and knowing how torespond.
Staff are also reporting amarked improvement in their
wellbeing as they realise howthese changes they make have
improved outcome for theirstudents.
Changes they make have improvedoutcome for their their
students.
And as our guests have said, goto the new south wales ppa
forward slash anxiety projectand you'll find all of the
(49:23):
further information, includingthe project overview, case
studies, information sessions,as well as the expression of
interest form really trulymaking from.
If we go back to the startstart of the project in when it
was forming in 2019, where wehave the problem we've now in
(49:44):
2025.
I'll just close with with trishpeters where would you like to
see?
Where do you, what's your,what's your wish in terms of
where the project will go fromhere?
Trish (50:00):
It will be great for us to see this implemented in every
public school in New SouthWales, but even better if we can
support our colleagues in otherstates, in other jurisdictions
because, again, being a whole ofcommunity approach, what we
want is we want a less anxiousgeneration.
Drew (50:20):
Yeah, well said, Trish Peters and Rob Walker, what is
your wish?
Rob (50:26):
Well, before going to my wish, I just want to thank the
presidents of the PPA over thelife of this project, Phil
Seymour, Robyn Evans and MichaelBurgess, who have all been part
of this project in some way,shape or form.
They've made a difference towhat's going on for kids across
the country through theirinvolvement in this project and
all have made significantcontributions.
The other thing that I wouldlike to see moving forward is
(50:48):
that I know our smaller schoolsare struggling with the
financial commitment to beinvolved in the project.
I'd like to see support forschools, whether we can bring on
board additional governancesupport or whether we can bring
on board some philanthropy, butit's certainly something that
children in our schools or youngpeople in our schools are
(51:09):
benefiting from, and I think itwould be great to see more of
our kids have access to thisexperience, this learning.
It's life- changing.
Drew (51:19):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and couldn't agree more.
Without the support of ourleaders, our Presidents and you
have, we wouldn't be where weare at this point in time.
Rob Walker, Trish Peters, thankyou again for your time, your
leadership and your passion formaking our schools safer and
(51:39):
stronger for every child.
Trish (51:43):
Thanks so much.
Rob (51:46):
Great to be with you, Drew .
Thanks, Trish.
Drew (51:49):
Thanks again for listening to this episode of the
New South Wales PrimaryPrincipals Association,
professional Learning,educational Leadership Podcast.
If you found this podcastvaluable, please share it with
your colleagues and your schoolcommunity.
We really appreciate yoursupport in spreading the word.
I'm your host, drew Janetsky,and I look forward to your
(52:11):
company next time as we continueto learn, lead and grow
together.
Welcome back to Professional Learning's, the New
South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
It's great to have your company.
This podcast aligns to thevalues of the New South Wales
Primary Principals Association,that is, the values of principal
wellbeing, principals as leadlearners, as well as supporting
principals to lead schooloperations.
(00:24):
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates, as well assupporting principals to lead
school operations.
If you enjoy this podcast,don't forget to subscribe for
further updates.
Now let's get into today'slatest episode.
In this episode, we shine alight on the Anxiety Project,
(00:45):
which is a vital initiativeresponding to the rising tide of
student anxiety in our schools.
Joining us today in our podcastis Rob Walker and Trish Peters,
both former New South Wales PPAstate executive members and
current project leads.
They bring deep insight andfresh findings from the latest
data, offering practicalstrategies and system
perspectives to support studentwell-being.
(01:07):
Let's dive in.
Rob (01:11):
Well, there was a report published in 2019 which showed
that anxiety levels amongst kidswas having an impact on the
quality of work going on inschools.
It was something that principalswere right across Australia
saying was a negative in theircapacity to build kids to be the
best versions of themselves.
(01:32):
It was also consuming a lot oftheir time and distressing for
staff trying to get on withtheir work as teachers but
unable to because of the impactof anxiety.
That concern was brought forwardto the New South Wales PPA
State Executive, where Trish andI were members at the time and
we were given the task ofvisiting a session offered by a
child psychologist, michaelHorton, and I went along to that
(01:56):
session and came back and spokewith Trish and the other
members of the State Executiveand suggested that there's two
things we could look at here.
One is this is a health issueit's not really an education
issue and we could put it in thebasket of the health department
or we could look at it as achild wellbeing issue and an
issue that was impacting on thewellbeing of our colleague
(02:16):
principals and the staff atschools and do something with
the information shared in thereport and to look at the sorts
of things that the PPA might beable to provide, and so the
decision of the state executivewas that we would move forward
with the design of the project.
Trish and I and other membersof our leadership team from
(02:39):
Michael's company Parent Shopcame together over a three-year
window to produce the project,and that's given us a project
that we've now been working fora further three years on
delivering in schools.
Drew (02:54):
Yeah, that's an interesting insight, and for you
, trish Peters Well, I was verymotivated by the fact that Rob
Walker took the lead ininvestigating some other parent
education projects and when hewas tasked with the
responsibility of taking thisforward, I wanted to support him
(03:15):
in his endeavour, becausestudent wellbeing is a real
passion of mine and,interestingly, I would disagree
straight away that it's a healthissue.
Trish (03:23):
One of the reasons that I was particularly motivated to
want to join this project was Ican see in my own school and by
speaking with my colleagues thatthe manifestation of anxious
behaviours in students isstopping teachers and schools
from doing really solid workwith kids and getting them to be
challenged.
So it's hard to have highexpectations in a school where
(03:45):
you're constantly having tolower expectations because of
anxious behaviours.
What I also saw was teachersworking hard to provide
adjustments or accommodationsfor students to manage a variety
of anxious behaviours, and ittakes quite a bit of time and
planning to be able to do it.
But what we noticed was theseaccommodations and adjustments
(04:09):
weren't actually helping us tomeet the goals of getting kids
to take up challenges, developresilience, and we've always had
a focus on resilience andwellbeing in the Department of
Education and there was a greatopportunity to develop this
whole of community approach athe PBL approach, where
(04:31):
everyone's involved to be ableto address anxious behaviours
that were preventing kids fromdoing everyday things going out
to the playground, working witha different casual teacher, you
know, maybe changing classes,maybe learning how to get on a
bus and get home, playing withnew friends, being able to
navigate just everyday kind ofchallenges.
(04:53):
So that was what motivated meto take this on and, as a leader
, those accommodations.
obviously that's what you think,as a leader, we're doing is the
right thing in terms of whathas been the learnings as a
leader through this project.
(05:14):
Can I just add something inthere, one of the things that
I've also noticed.
Rob's at a K-12 school, andthere may be a different, he may
have a different context, butI'm thinking of many of my
primary colleagues.
What we're doing is we'reproviding so many accommodations
and adjustments for ourstudents and when we go from
year six to year seven, weactually haven't set them up for
(05:36):
, I don't believe, theconditions that might be in
their local secondary school,which is, you know, you have to
deal with a range of differentteachers, you're going to have
to navigate new friendships,you're going to have to do
things that are really quitechallenging, that you've never
experienced before, and one ofthe things that I've spoken
about with my colleagues iswe're actually not setting our
(05:57):
six kids up for success insecondary school.
So it's probably different.
In Rob's school, where it's aK-12 environment, They've got
that natural transition.
I don't know, rob, what do youthink?
Rob (06:08):
Well, there's probably a couple of points I'd make here.
First of all, I just want to goback to something you said a
second ago, and then I want toput in a differentiation between
the accommodations, orunhelpful accommodations, and
the adjustments With the parents.
Certainly, working in schools,I know principals find parents
will often come forwardexpressing uncertainty about how
(06:29):
to handle things their kid'spresenting, and so I could see
that we, over a period of timeas a principal, I could see that
we were working really, reallyhard as a system of educators
across the country to reallyrefine teaching practice and
what we were doing in classroomsand in school settings with
kids.
But I felt strongly that withthe feedback I was getting from
(06:51):
parents and the struggles thatthey were experiencing, that it
was a bit odd or even a bitcrazy in our world that we don't
educate for parenthood.
We educate for so many thingsin this life and we don't
educate for parenthood veryeffectively or very often.
I mean there are some very goodprograms operating but they're
not widely undertaken andthey're not certainly programs
(07:13):
that are.
You know there's structuralarrangements put in place by
governments to see that themajority of parents have the
opportunity to recognize thereare things that kids go through
at certain stages quite commonlyand here are some suggestions
that you might consider using inthose circumstances.
Everyone's recreating the wheelin every family with every new
(07:34):
generation, rather than pickingup on things or perhaps
reflecting on their ownchildhood.
I often hear parents saying,well, I'm absolutely not doing
what my parents did with me, orI turned out okay, so I'm going
to do what my parents did withme.
So you get both those kinds ofcomments being made.
But certainly parents haveshared frustrations with being
uncertain about how to handlethings with kids and you know we
(07:57):
want kids to grow to be theirbest and we want parents to grow
to know and understand how bestto help their children grow to
be their best.
The second thing I want to talkabout was just put a line in
the sand over some phrasing here.
We talk in the project and we'repromoting the messaging of
unhelpful accommodations thatadults put around kids Trish has
(08:20):
just referenced those and wealso talk about making
adjustments to teaching programsto refine work so that our work
is individualized to students.
They're two different things andthe project puts the staff
teaching and non-teaching staffin schools through an experience
and a learning process ofunderstanding the difference
between what is an unhelpfulaccommodation where, effectively
(08:42):
, adults around a child aretaking from that child learning
moments.
The metaphor I use in my mind iswe as adults, whether we're
parents or whether we're schoolstaff need to be standing beside
a child and allow them to sitin discomfort when things come
at them and talk them throughwhat's occurring, not step in
front of the child, solve theissue.
(09:04):
They're standing behind ourback and they don't really see
or understand or know what it isthat are their choices or
knowing what to do.
So one of the big learnings ofthe project for all the adults
involved is to know how to standbeside a child, allow them to
sit in discomfort and allow themto move forward in their
(09:24):
learning of how to manage thingsand understand how their body
functions.
We particularly use bodymessaging that kids can pick up
in the early years of school sothey understand how their mind
is working and they learntechniques for emotional control
.
We found it to be veryeffective in reducing anxious
behaviours in kids.
Drew (09:44):
We found it to be very effective in reducing anxious
behaviours in kids?
Yeah, and in terms of justelaborating on that, is that in
terms of the anxiety project assuch, how is that we've covered
in our discussion so far?
We've covered teachers, we'vecovered leaders, we've discussed
(10:15):
parents.
We've also discussed students.
How does this projectessentially tackle all of those
things?
We will go to research andevidence, but I guess for our
uninformed listeners, what doesthe anxiety project, how can we
cover all of those facets thatwe've said, and either Trish or
Rob, I'll let you take up onthat.
Rob (10:33):
Yeah, I'm happy to pick that up, Drew.
The key message I would put outhere is that the Anxiety
Project has layers ofintervention, layers of support.
So there is, firstly, whenschools are considering being
involved.
There are information sessionsthat we provide, which enables
the school to assess whether ornot this is for them.
(10:55):
They can have a look at whattheir commitments would be.
They can have a look at theofferings that we would put
forward.
So they go forward knowing thatthere are certain things that
they will need to have in placeat the school.
These are not insurmountables.
These are the things thatprincipals do every day when
they're organising for projectsto come in, but there are
commitments expected from theschool.
The other thing that I wouldsay training.
(11:16):
It is ly fundamental to havethe l leader on board,
,understanding t is that thelayers of the project involve
school leader training and in aposition of confidence to lead
the project over the two-yearduration.
The project runs in the school.
Each school involved has acoach.
That's the person within theschool who is the champion for
the project, who is supportingthe staff, who's making sure
(11:38):
that the tasks involved indelivering the project over that
two-year window are on track,and that person receives, with
the school leader, quite deepand purposeful organisation and
quite deep understanding of whatwe're trying to achieve with
the kids and how they think andhow the staff work and the
parents work with the kids.
(11:59):
But also the organisationalsupport is there for them and
I'll talk a little bit moreabout that organisational
support in a sec.
The teacher training and thenon-teaching staff training is
broken up into a series of videosegments with introductions and
closing remarks.
They are led by the coaches whoare trained to support those
(12:21):
sessions.
The sessions themselves aredelivered by Michael and his
team from the parent shop andthe coaches then lead through
sessions that unpack those withthe staff.
It's flexible.
There's varying amounts of time.
If you want to run two or threevideo clips as a school in one
session because you can make aschool development day session
(12:42):
available if you just want to doone click clip clip and make it
part of a staff meeting, youcan do that, but there's a
window of time available todeliver the project.
The other thing, then, is thatwe have built into the training
program a session with Michaeland his teams If there are
questions that come forwardduring the sessions delivered by
the coach that need follow-upby Michael and his team.
(13:06):
That session is on offer, andso then we have lesson delivery
for the kids.
There are seven lessons.
They're stage.
Appropriate Stage is one, twoand three.
There's a year A year B modelfor the lessons and they're all
appropriate to the age level ofthe child, and I mentioned some
of the content areas of thoselessons.
(13:26):
They are delivered by theclassroom teachers, supported by
the coaches, the people whoreally know the kids very well.
There are parents-revingsessions that follow on.
These are conducted wheneverthe school feels they're suited.
They're led by the coach.
The coaches are trained in thedelivery of the sessions with
the parents using contentprovided by Parent Shop and
(13:47):
Michael, the child psychologist,and his team.
We have fortnightly cafes forthe coaches where they have the
opportunity to sharpen the sawwith their skills with each
other, and we have principalcafes every turn to make sure
the principals are strong andconfident in how to lead.
There are newsletters providedwith deeper professional
(14:08):
learning and also support to thecoaches to keep them on track
with the tasks involved.
And finally, we have all ofthis brought together on
LearnWorlds, our learningmanagement system, a very
comprehensive place online thatthe coaches can go to to share
information with each other.
Trish, what have I left outthere?
Trish (14:26):
I don't think you've left out anything.
What I want to say is the pointof difference for this
particular project is that itdoes cover all of those layers,
so it doesn't rely on onechampion teacher going I think
this is a great idea it doesn'trely on just one person
implementing something in theschool or delivering something
(14:49):
that not everyone else isgetting.
The point of difference is thatit's consistent right across
the board and the way all of thelayers intertwine and
interconnect.
You don't miss anyone in yourschool community.
You've got parents, you've gotstudents, you've got teachers,
you've got your school learningsupport officer staff.
Even your admin staff are allpart of this big picture.
When they all have the training, they're all able to deliver
(15:12):
consistent messaging.
It's the fidelity ofimplementation that's really
important and this project isbuilt around fidelity of
implementation and ongoingsustainability, because what
we're trying to do is develop ina whole school community, a
have-a-go culture.
So it's all of these layersthat combine to provide the
support that you need.
(15:33):
Those face-to-face interactionsyou know on the Zoom cafes are
so very important.
You build sets of connection,collective efficacy.
You know we're working reallystrongly with our implementation
coaches, who are like yourinstructional leaders in your
school to help maintain, sustain, build capacity and build that
culture so that if the personleading the project goes, that
(15:56):
is maintained, you don't losethe benefit of all that hard
work.
Rob (16:01):
Drew, if I may, I might just talk a little bit about the
tools we're using to measurethe impacts.
It's one thing to talk aboutthe layers of delivery, but the
research component of theproject, which I know you've got
some questions you'd like tomove into more detail and I
think those questions will stillbe appropriate.
But I just wanted to say thatthe other arm or the other layer
of the project here, is that weare measuring impact.
(16:23):
We measure before we doanything in the school setting
and then we take measures everysix months on the impact on
anxious behaviours on kids andwe take measures of shifting
staff confidence in recognisinganxiety and knowing what to do
and then we take measures ofparent reductions in their
unhelpful accommodations.
(16:44):
So those measures are usinguniversity level instruments.
But what's really exciting isthe news that we've been brought
to the floor most recently.
Drew (16:58):
Yeah, perfect segway there, Rob Walker.
In terms of just recapping whatyou both have said, though, in
terms of the whole, what anopportunity for leaders and
school change of lay support.
It's a two-year project.
There's a coach, an internalcoach, there's sessions with
(17:19):
expert psychologist MichaelHorton and his team.
There's comprehensive amount ofresources.
It's a whole school changeprogram.
It's ongoing with sustainablepractices, sustainable practices
(17:40):
and now 2025.
We've heard all of thebackground of the why we've
talked about the layers ofsupport.
Let's not now talk about we'vein 2025, about the data and the
impact so far of the project.
Rob walker, can you lead usthrough that?
Rob (17:54):
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So look, I am going to namesome schools here, but I'm not
going to link the data that I'mgoing to share directly with the
schools.
But I think it's moremeaningful for our colleagues to
hear the names of schools thatare involved in this project and
perhaps they know the colleagueprincipal there and want to
talk about what's going on.
So schools like William DeanPublic School, jamieson Town
Public School, pennant HillsPublic School, strathfield North
(18:19):
, public Cardiff Public School,bellingen, warratah West,
charlestown, kirkhill North,manly Vale, warilla North,
chitaway Bay, woodport,claremont, meadows, bangalow
Public School these are allschools in varying settings that
are all showing that, from theT0 measure, which is the first
measure we take before anyintervention is undertaken, to
the T1 measure, which is sixmonths later, a measure of
(18:43):
whether or not there's been areduction in anxious behaviours
in kids, to the T2 measure,another six months later, so 12
months from the first capture,these schools are showing
reductions in anxious behavioursin their Yeah, yeah, sure.
So look, I am going to namesome schools here, but I'm not
going to link the data that I'mgoing to share directly with the
schools.
But I think it's moremeaningful for our colleagues to
hear the names of schools thatare involved in this project and
perhaps they know the colleagueprincipal there and want to
talk about what's going on.
So schools like William DeanPublic School, Jamieson Town
Public School, pennant HillsPublic School, Strathfield
North, public Cardiff PublicSchool, Bellingen, Waratah West,
Charlestown, Curl Curl NorthNorth, Manly Vale, Warilla
North, Chitaway Bay, Wood Port,Claremont Meadows, Bangalow
Public School these are allschools in varying settings that
are all showing that, from theT0 measure, which is the first
measure we take before anyintervention is undertaken, to
the T1 measure, which is sixmonths later, a measure of
whether or not there's been areduction in anxious behaviours
in kids, to the T2 measure,another six months later, so 12
months from the first captures.
The schools are also showing andthey're a subset.
There's 129 schools that eitherhave been or are involved in the
(19:05):
project.
There's just under 47,000students involved in the project
and approximately 3,500 staffand 2,500 parents directly
involved in what's going on inthe project through the sessions
that we're running, so it's gota big footprint.
You're right, it's a wholeschool community change project,
hence the commitments that weask for schools at the front end
(19:29):
of the project.
But the data that we're seeinghere is showing consistent
reductions now, and this isreally the first time we're
sharing this data publicly Somepeople might have heard feedback
about the project over time,but today this podcast is
sharing with colleagues that weare seeing consistent reductions
in anxious behaviours in kids.
(19:49):
We've known that the project'sbeen delivering increases in
staff confidence in identifyinganxious behaviours and knowing
what to do next.
But we're also now sharing.
For the first time we've gotdata showing us that there are
reductions in unhelpfulaccommodations by parents, and
so all of this is packagingtogether to seeing a positive
(20:10):
outcome for the kids in ourschools.
Drew (20:13):
Yeah, so let's pick up.
Sorry, Trish, I was going tosay let's pick up on the data.
Would you like to elaboratefurther on what Rob said?
Trish (20:19):
I don't want to elaborate on the data.
I just want to talk about whatwe're using to be able to
measure.
So one of the things we'retrying to measure is teacher
confidence in identifyinganxious behaviours and then
their confidence in being ableto deal with anxious behaviours.
And that's pretty significantbecause in your classroom you're
(20:39):
wanting to work out how you'regoing to approach your overall
approach in dealing with anxiousbehaviours and stopping those
unhelpful accommodations thatprevent kids from doing regular
everyday things.
So we ask teachers to talkabout, assess their confidence
and their ability to addressanxious behaviours.
The other thing we do is, with arandom sample of students, we
(21:02):
ask teachers to assess thelevels of anxious behaviours.
So they don't have to know whatanxious behaviours are, because
the instrument that we usegives the examples and asks you
to rate the level of theseanxious behaviours that you see
in particular students.
And then what we're looking forsome time later in the T1
(21:24):
collection is has that changed,you know, has that level changed
?
So the instruments aren't hardto deliver and they're classroom
focused.
So when they're looking atanxious behaviours we're not
talking about outside things.
What does it look like in anactual classroom?
And those are the things thatteachers know and can easily
(21:45):
identify.
So those measures, even thoughthey're university instruments,
relate to teachers' everydaywork.
That was pretty much what Iwanted to say.
Drew (21:56):
Yeah, thanks, Trish.
What's your perspective?
Rob Walker, what's?
Rob (21:59):
up Drew.
I just want to say Trish hasmade a really important comment
there, so let's be clear aboutthe measures and the time that's
involved in doing the capture.
The staff are doing a reportevery six months on six kids
from their class.
Each report takes two to threeminutes.
On completing a survey it's thesame survey on each occasion.
(22:21):
The staff complete a survey onthemselves, a staff
self-assessment teaching ornon-teaching staff and we're
seeing schools involve not onlytheir classroom teachers but
also their SLSOs or theirteacher's aides, depending on
what sector you're in and alsothe SEOs in the school, because
(22:44):
they're often looking after thesick bay or the clinic whatever
it is that it's called in yourschool and they will see
firsthand where those kids aregoing.
So these data captures arequite manageable experiences and
we're seeing now moreconsistent data coming through
from the schools in reportingthese reductions in anxious
(23:07):
behaviours and increases inconfidence and reductions in the
accommodations from the adultsaround the kids accommodations
from the adults around the kids.
Drew (23:18):
Okay, so just to confirm that the data capture is of the
teacher teaching in theirclassroom and their data set is
the six students within theirown context.
Correct me if I'm wrong there.
Rob (23:32):
Yeah, no spot on.
There's six students per class.
It's a random sample of therole, so you're not picking the
six most anxious kids or leastanxious kids.
It is a random sample ofstudents from each class that's
involved in the project and wetake a measure of those six kids
every six months and a shift inthose kids, and it takes two to
(23:53):
three minutes for the teacherto complete the survey on that
child.
The other thing I was going tosay is that Trish alluded to
this and I think it's worthemphasising that we're not
talking about additional layersof work for school staff here.
These are conversations that weare shaping that staff are
already having with kids,whether they're in the classroom
(24:14):
or in the playground.
Staff are already talking aboutanxious behavi having with kids
, whether they're in theclassroom or in the playground.
Staff are already talking aboutanxious behaviours with kids,
but what happens here is thatthey learn how to guide those
conversations and they learn howto pick up cues and where to go
with them.
So that's a key differentiator,I think, for staff.
The other thing I would say isthe lessons being delivered are
in keeping with the PD Health PEsyllabus, so they're not across
(24:36):
the national curriculum.
So they're not things that areoutside or in addition to our
work.
They are very much part of ourwork.
So we're not talking aboutadditional workload here.
These are conversations thatwe're already having with kids,
but they're going to befollowing training, they're
going to be more purposeful andhave better outcomes, and the
lesson materials are providedand recommendations for
(24:58):
resources and support isprovided through the cafes to
the coaches on how to guidestaff in the delivery of those
lessons.
Drew (25:06):
Okay, terrific.
So in terms of then, the samequestions are being asked
throughout the duration of theproject.
There's facets known as T0measures, which is a baseline,
then we've got a T1 and T2measures.
What are we seeing currently?
Now, rob with the data.
Rob (25:28):
So I will share some numbers with you.
Without giving away the namesof schools, so let's just call
this one School 1.
Without giving away the namesof schools, so let's just call
this one School 1.
They recorded a score of 13.67.
And the score is at T0.
The score is a numericrepresentation of the levels of
anxiety presenting in thatparticular school.
(25:53):
At the T0 interval they'reshowing a reduction to 13.33 at
six-month measure, a small shift.
We're kind of not surprisedsometimes where the schools show
a smaller shift at the T1measure because we're also
removing from kids the unhelpfulaccommodations so that in
itself can cause more anxiousresponses from kids.
(26:16):
But this particular school I'mlooking at at the moment has
then six months again later so12 months from the initial
measure their scores dropped to9.11.
So you can see that over timethat school's recorded
reductions in the number ofanxious behaviours.
So it's that kind of consistentdata that we're seeing, showing
(26:38):
reductions over time.
I perhaps could pick one otherschool that I think has shown
quite a remarkable reduction,but there's a number of them
here in front of me that I'mlooking at A score dropping from
19.78 at the initial measure to13.07 to 10.53 at the 12-month
marker, so reductions in anxiousbehaviours.
(26:59):
The other thing that'sinteresting here is that we
provide comparative data with astatistically similar school
group, using the same principlesof how those SSGs are formed
when we're looking at our NAPLANresults or the other data that
CC uses to assess change inschools.
So what's interesting aboutthese schools is that they are
(27:22):
closing the gap between theirschool and the SSG.
So, for example, in the schoolthat I just mentioned, 19.37 is
their initial score.
The SSG was at 13.19.
So this school that I'mreferring to now had relatively
high levels of anxiety and theywere about six points away from
(27:43):
the SSG.
At the next measure they hadclosed the gap to just two to
three points 13.98 with the SSGat 11.23.
Hoping I'm not losing you withthe numbers here, but the bottom
line is these schools areclosing the gap and getting
closer to the SSG and we alsohave whole of cohort data and
(28:03):
they're closing the gap in thatspace as well.
So, as I said, you know somereally impressive results across
the board from large numbers ofschools now coming into as a
result of the data collectionsassociated with the project.
Numbers of schools now comingin as a result of the data
collections associated with theproject.
Trish (28:17):
Well, rob, I'd like you to come here and just talk about
why it's not because it's acompetition or it's something to
put in your school plan to go,you know, reduced here.
Knowing these differences helpsus then to target the support,
the ongoing support that weprovide all the participants.
So when we can see all of thestatistically similar groups and
(28:41):
the reductions we go, what'sthat school doing that's making
it get such good results and howcan we leverage what they're
doing for others?
So we have our Zoom cafes wherewe share information and good
practice, and then annually, wehave a showcase day where we
invite some of those schools whoare doing very well and have
(29:03):
got some excellent practice toshare with the rest of the
cohort.
And it's pretty profoundbecause, as I said, it targets
the ongoing support that we have.
It might direct us to havingdifferent readings uploaded to
the LearnWorlds platform andthat type of thing.
So it's an iterative process,using the data to be able to
(29:24):
work on what we need to do nextto be able to support project
participants.
Drew (29:31):
Trish.
So many good takeaways there,the learning fair just the sheer
amount of resources available,Rob.
Rob (29:39):
Walker, could you elaborate?
I'm not sure if I mentionedearlier Drew.
The cafes for the coaches are afortnightly exercise and we ask
the coaches what works best forthem and land on a time that
can occur.
For most coaches and for thecurrent cohort.
We're working on Thursdaymornings 8 to 8.45, and that's
the time that we all cometogether.
There's a session host forMichael's team.
(30:03):
Occasionally.
I'll host it, but it willdepend on the content areas and
the sorts of things that we'redoing.
There is really refiningpractice.
We're looking at what is goingon in the schools, what
different things people havetried, what results they have.
I'd have to say one of the mosthumbling experiences in leading
(30:23):
this project for Trish and I isthe amazing array of
innovations the coaches comeforward with and how they take
their learnings in the projectand shape them into things that
are most meaningful for theirschool communities.
It's astounding.
The talent in schools acrossthe country are astounding, and
(30:45):
I should say too I've saidacross the country a couple of
times.
The project started in NewSouth Wales public schools.
We have now schools from othersectors involved.
We have now schools from otherstates involved in the project
as well.
So it is growing and certainly,as we can now see, this is an
effective intervention to reduceanxious behaviours in kids and
(31:06):
it's certainly supporting kidsto get better schooling outcomes
and it's certainly putting.
That's another thing we shouldshare.
Drew, first time sharing,haven't shared this.
What one layer of the projectdoes?
The qualitative researchcomponent of the project takes
an interview style where theresearchers, which are at arm's
(31:27):
length from the leadership team,are in conversation with the
staff involved in delivering theproject and they record notes
on those conversations.
And the researchers recentlycame back to us and said one of
the things that you as aleadership team may not be aware
is this is having a verypositive impact on the wellbeing
of school staff.
They are saying I feel betterabout being a teacher because I
(31:51):
can see what I've learnedthrough this project is making a
difference for the kids that Iwork with every day.
So I know we've struggled a bitof recent times with the
teacher workforce and havingenough teachers to work with our
kids, but this is certainlymaking teachers, or taking
teachers to a place where theyfeel good about being in the
profession.
Drew (32:12):
Was that an unintended consequence?
Rob Walker.
Rob (32:16):
Being completely honest, drew, yes.
Profession Was that anunintended consequence?
Rob Walker?
Being completely honest, drew,yes, it's definitely a positive
outcome.
I suppose if we'd sat back andthought what is the impact on
the wellbeing of staff going tobe if the kids are showing
reductions in anxious behaviours, we probably could have
(32:36):
predicted that we were going toget what we've got.
But when it came from theresearchers who, as I said, are
from arm's length from theleadership team, we forwarded
information from thoseresearchers on what they've
captured.
Every data capture.
After the data capture windowcloses, they compile a report
and then provide it to us, andthen we have also a summary
(32:59):
report which brings together allthe data.
So this report that I'mreferring to is for the schools
that join at the beginning ofthe project.
We still provide informationthat schools, if they join
mid-year which is a possibilityin the year of 2025, that the
feedback that they will get onthe impact in their school
community will look different.
But those schools that join atthe commencement, every year
(33:21):
there's a report provided by thetertiary researchers we have
involved in the project and,irrespective either way, the
feedback you're getting isgiving you information at the
school level you can use toshape your work and refine your
practice and it also, as Trishalluded to earlier on, you can,
and most schools have got thisincorporated in their school
(33:43):
plan and you've got improvementmeasures that you can report on
and show shifts as a result ofthe energies that are going into
the delivery of the project inthe school.
Drew (33:53):
I was going to go to you, Trish, in terms of what we're
measuring.
We're measuring student levelsof anxiety.
The unintended consequences arethat what I've heard is that
the teacher's levels of anxietyhas reduced.
Are there other unintendedconsequences?
(34:13):
Or parents, is their anxietyreduced?
Can you elaborate further onany other measures that we may
have missed?
Trish (34:22):
I don't know that I can elaborate on parent anxiety, but
parents report feeling moresupported and feel like they've
actually got some direction,because parents are motivated by
wanting to do the very, verybest for their kids.
But when you give them thetraining and the support to be
able to understand thatsometimes what they're doing is
not helpful without blame,that's the really important part
(34:47):
to be able to get them on board.
And speaking of unintendedoutcomes or unintended
consequences unintended, youknow, unintended outcomes or
unintended consequences.
In cohort one we initially hadwe were taking data because our
coaches asked us to take data onevery student in the class.
And in cohort one, the schoolswho collected data on every
(35:08):
child in the class were able tosee those students who were in
the borderline, also the undercategories for anxiety, and it
helped them to then refer on totheir school counsellor, because
you have an obligation when youidentify something that's
significant, a significantproblem, to seek support.
So the measures that we use isfreely available from the
(35:30):
Macquarie University websitewhere it's parked with all their
other social and emotionalresources.
But schools use thatinformation to refer students on
and I think that was somethingthat we weren't expecting.
In cohort one, there was quite ahigh level, which surprised us,
of students who had quitesevere anxious behaviours that
(35:54):
right up to now hadn't beenaddressed.
I think in terms of schoolplanning and I'm looking at how
you might triangulate this withother data sets reducing anxious
behaviours and developing thosehave-a-go cultures in a way
that every person can speak to astudent at school, I think
(36:19):
we'll see in the future we'll beable to tie some of that
success to the school refusalspace, because that's becoming
pretty significant, particularlyfor our younger students, when
we think our catered to studentswho may have been more solidly
affected by COVID.
There's a good deal of schoolanxiety there and having
(36:40):
teachers and SLSOs who canmanage at every point of a
conversation, addressing astudent's anxious expressions is
really, really helpful, ratherthan waiting for the learning
and support teacher or waitingfor the deputy principal to have
the conversation.
Everyone's skilled up to beable to do that and I think
(37:03):
probably hard to capture that insome other kind of data set,
but I suspect that you couldprobably be relating it to
anxious behaviour to do withattendance.
I know participation in justanecdotally at my school people
have spoken about the number ofkids who've actually started to
have a go at trying out forsports that they wouldn't have
(37:25):
tried out to do, participatingin a choir you know being.
Have a go, yeah, so yeah, Ithink yeah.
Drew (37:35):
I was going to say there's a lot of, I guess in
terms of the word we said istriangulation, but the
unintended consequences I'mhearing there could be the link
with improved attendance rates,improved or reduction of
suspensions.
For example, I've heardincrease of participation in uh,
(37:57):
the arts program, just due topotentially the flip side is
they, they've gone from being,their anxiety has been reduced
and now, as a result, theirconfidence levels have improved
and therefore, as a result, theyparticipate once they feel
enabled to be able toparticipate, which in terms of
(38:17):
measuring, that is a hard, butalso you could potentially see
those correlations.
Trish (38:27):
Well, I would say your high potential and gifted
education students too.
The flip side some of thosestudents suffer from extreme
anxieties about performance andwhen every teacher's on the same
page about how they can addressanxious behavior around
perfectionism not being able todo everything to the very best
(38:49):
of their ability ways to avoid.
It's pretty significant thatthese interventions are going to
be applied to the whole rangeof contexts, including those
children who are high performers.
Rob (39:03):
I just wanted to pick up Trish.
Yeah, I was going to say Trishhas almost covered the point I
was going to make Not quite,though I think the powerful
point that Trish has just sharedabout the staff all being on
the same page and she's used thecollective efficacy phrase
earlier in the conversation Ijust want to say that one of the
things that parents I hearcoming forward with is this
(39:23):
phrase of common language.
The parents really have valuedbeing in the same space in the
way we are talking aboutmanaging anxious behaviours that
kids may present with andknowing where to go.
So the project provides acommon language that the
teachers, the non-teaching staff, slsos or teachers' aides, that
the office staff, the schoolparents are all using, and
(39:47):
that's a very powerful space tobe in, especially when you have
an understanding of what you'retrying to achieve at the other
end of this.
The other thing Trish justmentioned was the have-a-go
attitude, and that's afundamental part of the project
is encouraging kids to have a go, to be comfortable with
something that doesn't work outperhaps the way they want to,
(40:08):
but knowing how to go forwardwith it from there.
So there's a lot of goodoutcomes here which are really
growing young people's capacitythrough their participation in
this project.
(40:33):
Well, I'm going to say we'verefined.
Well, look, trish will followme, I'm sure, look.
I just want to say I think overthe life of the project as a
leadership team we have seenwhat works well and we've seen
things that have still positiveimpact perhaps, but not as
(40:55):
powerfully as some other aspectsof what we're doing in the
project.
So we've really been able tohone our leadership of the
project and really sharpen thefocus and the things that matter
for the schools.
So I think the refining of thepractice in the schools that
have been involved in theproject over time we can see
what's working in schools.
We can see what's working bestin the delivery of the project.
(41:16):
We can see where the emphasison the different layers of
delivery of the project needs tobe placed.
And the other thing we've doneis we've got what we've said.
It's a two-year project in eachschool.
We've offered this year for thefirst time the sustaining
schools component to the project.
So there are schools now whohave put up their hand to be in
their third year of delivery ofthe project so that they are
(41:39):
still able to access the cafesfor principals and for the
coaches.
They're still accessing theonline learning system.
They're still accessingresearch capability.
So each of the elements of theproject is still available to
those schools and they're reallysharpening the saw on the work
they're doing with the kids andthe staff in this space and, of
(41:59):
course, their parents, trish.
Trish (42:02):
I'd like to just add to that that the STEERCO meets
annually and what we do is wereview our performance as a team
, as a project, and we recommendimprovements or innovations.
So, as I said, it's aniterative process and we go back
to what worked well, whatdidn't work well and working out
why it didn't work well andwhat we need to do.
(42:23):
So those of you, like me, whowere in cohort one would see the
very big difference betweencohort one and cohort three,
because we've made some majorimprovements, because we're
committed to ensuring thesustainability of these projects
, so that it's not a set andforget.
He will sell you a product andthen walk away.
(42:45):
What you've got is a verycommitted steer co that's going
to make sure that for the lifeof this work it's going to meet
your needs and it's going to beinnovative.
Rob (42:56):
Yeah, I think I just put a word of clarification in there,
drew.
So that's what Trish has justreferred to.
There is our deep dive, wherewe really look across all
aspects of delivery of theproject.
We come together with theresearchers.
We physically come together asa leadership team and really
unpack every aspect of whatwe're doing across the 12 months
and what impact it's had andwhat observations each of the
(43:19):
different members of thesteering committee have had as
we've been working through.
But we meet every fortnight.
We're together every fortnightas a leadership team.
We're looking at how theproject is travelling in the
moment and we're refining ourpractices and making adjustments
and we're making sure we'relistening carefully to the
feedback we're getting from thecoaches and the principals and
we're refining our practices andmaking adjustments.
And we're making sure we'relistening carefully to the
feedback we're getting from thecoaches and the principals and
(43:39):
we're looking at making surethat the next step that we take
within the next two weeks issomething that's going to really
work well for the schools.
So it's very much a dynamicprocess with very clear intended
outcomes, but very wellsupported and, point in time,
it's a really well put togetherproject in my view.
Drew (44:00):
Yeah, it's a real team effort in terms of the steer
coke working through, as yousaid, working through any
identified issues, such a hugedata set to draw upon.
But, as you've said, it's therefinement, ongoing refinement
of the processes and the resultsare very encouraging.
(44:22):
So, for principals or leadersor parents listening to this,
where to next in terms of thereis a midterm uptake and they're
listening and thinking I want myschool to be involved.
How could they go?
Rob (44:42):
about that process.
Rob Walker, yeah, look, thebest step they can take at this
stage, I mean is to go to thePPA's website under the tab of
professional learning, pull downand release on the anxiety
project.
There are flyers there thatprincipals and interested
parents who are perhaps part ofa PNC might want to put around
(45:03):
amongst a meeting that they'reholding and discuss it.
If it's a principal might wantto discuss with the school staff
or school executive.
If it's a parent, they may wantto sit down with the PNC.
I would normally expectprincipals to be at those
meetings, so it might besomething they'd put in front of
the principal prior and have aconversation with them to say
look, we're interested in thisproject, we'd like to
(45:25):
investigate it further.
So those flyers are there onthe website.
We also have an expression ofinterest form and the expression
of interest form.
People can fill that out andindicate that they are
interested and just need moreinformation, or that they are
interested and they're committedand they've set aside funding
to become involved in theproject.
So either way, it's okay.
(45:46):
We'll just provide support forwherever the school's at at that
time To move them forward.
They might say you know what,thanks, but not for us right now
, or maybe in the next 12 monthswhile we're winding up our
participation in a differentproject.
So timing it right for theschool picking up the project,
so it's going to work best inthat school setting.
But, yeah, it's awell-supported project.
(46:10):
Once you indicate interest,there's information around you
to help you have effectivediscussions to understand what
it is that the project offersand what commitments your school
would be entering into injoining the project.
Drew (46:24):
Yeah, terrific Thanks, Rob and Trish.
Trish (46:27):
And of interest.
Drew, the parent shop, whoworked with us to develop the
anxiety project, also offer asimilar project for our
secondary schools.
It's called RIOT.
So Resilience in Our Teens, andit replicates and mirrors the
same opportunity.
So in those communities wherethere's a need K-12, there's
(46:51):
always that available too.
Drew (46:55):
Particularly Trish.
When you talk about thetransition phase, as you said in
what you've seen and you goback to your why it was, you
were seeing this massive gapbetween the transition from the
primary setting into the highschool.
So it does make sense for theprimary schools to feed into
(47:18):
high schools that are doing theResilience in Teens, or known as
the RIOT project.
Trish (47:28):
Yeah, some of our schools have partnered with primary
schools as a learning communityto implement the anxiety project
and right yeah.
Rob (47:39):
Yeah, I was just going to say so.
You alluded to this earlier andI probably should have made
mention.
So we do have this time thisyear 2025, for the first time, a
mid-year intake for the project.
It would be the same as we'vediscussed through this
conversation, with one minoradjustment to how the research
component of the projectoperates, but other than that,
(48:02):
it's the same project forschools that have joined at the
beginning of each of the lastthree years and would be for
those schools that join at thebeginning of 2026.
A closed date for expressionsof interest.
Even if it's I'm interested andI need more information.
That expression of interestneeds to be in by the 16th of
(48:23):
June and the expression ofinterest form is on the PPA
website, as I said, underneathProfessional Learning tab.
Pull down and release on theAnxiety Project and you'll see
the expression of interest formthere with the flyers,
information, some links to somemore um television work that's
been done about the project andsome radio interviews and things
.
Drew (48:42):
All useful for unpacking, uh, what the project is with
your school community yeah,terrific in terms of the auis,
as we reca recapped Monday, the16th of June 2025,.
What's especially encouragingis that the data is showing
significant changes in teacherconfidence in recognising
(49:02):
anxiety and knowing how torespond.
Staff are also reporting amarked improvement in their
wellbeing as they realise howthese changes they make have
improved outcome for theirstudents.
Changes they make have improvedoutcome for their their
students.
And as our guests have said, goto the new south wales ppa
forward slash anxiety projectand you'll find all of the
(49:23):
further information, includingthe project overview, case
studies, information sessions,as well as the expression of
interest form really trulymaking from.
If we go back to the startstart of the project in when it
was forming in 2019, where wehave the problem we've now in
(49:44):
2025.
I'll just close with with trishpeters where would you like to
see?
Where do you, what's your,what's your wish in terms of
where the project will go fromhere?
Trish (50:00):
It will be great for us to see this implemented in every
public school in New SouthWales, but even better if we can
support our colleagues in otherstates, in other jurisdictions
because, again, being a whole ofcommunity approach, what we
want is we want a less anxiousgeneration.
Drew (50:20):
Yeah, well said, Trish Peters and Rob Walker, what is
your wish?
Rob (50:26):
Well, before going to my wish, I just want to thank the
presidents of the PPA over thelife of this project, Phil
Seymour, Robyn Evans and MichaelBurgess, who have all been part
of this project in some way,shape or form.
They've made a difference towhat's going on for kids across
the country through theirinvolvement in this project and
all have made significantcontributions.
The other thing that I wouldlike to see moving forward is
(50:48):
that I know our smaller schoolsare struggling with the
financial commitment to beinvolved in the project.
I'd like to see support forschools, whether we can bring on
board additional governancesupport or whether we can bring
on board some philanthropy, butit's certainly something that
children in our schools or youngpeople in our schools are
(51:09):
benefiting from, and I think itwould be great to see more of
our kids have access to thisexperience, this learning.
It's life- changing.
Drew (51:19):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and couldn't agree more.
Without the support of ourleaders, our Presidents and you
have, we wouldn't be where weare at this point in time.
Rob Walker, Trish Peters, thankyou again for your time, your
leadership and your passion formaking our schools safer and
(51:39):
stronger for every child.
Trish (51:43):
Thanks so much.
Rob (51:46):
Great to be with you, Drew .
Thanks, Trish.
Drew (51:49):
Thanks again for listening to this episode of the
New South Wales PrimaryPrincipals Association,
professional Learning,educational Leadership Podcast.
If you found this podcastvaluable, please share it with
your colleagues and your schoolcommunity.
We really appreciate yoursupport in spreading the word.
I'm your host, drew Janetsky,and I look forward to your
(52:11):
company next time as we continueto learn, lead and grow
together.
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