April 30, 2025 • 50 mins
What happens when schools go beyond academic instruction to develop the whole child as a leader?
In this podcast, Sean Covey, New York Times bestselling author and President of Franklin Covey Education, reveals the remarkable transformation occurring in thousands of schools worldwide through the Leader in Me program.
The journey began unexpectedly when an elementary school principal on the verge of losing her job discovered Stephen Covey's Seven Habits framework. Within three years, her failing school, with 50% poverty rates and 28 different languages, became America's number one school. Today, this approach has spread to 8,000 schools across 50 countries, with consistently impressive results in both academic achievement and school culture.
Covey shares a recent powerful example from an inner-city Los Angeles school where every student has leadership responsibilities and academic goals. Despite challenging neighbourhood circumstances, these students achieve some of California's highest test scores. The secret? A culture built around transformative paradigms: every child can lead, every student has genius, change starts with individual responsibility, and education must address the whole person.
For educators struggling with burnout – a widespread challenge exacerbated by recent global events – Covey emphasises the critical importance of self-renewal through "Sharpen the Saw" practices across physical, mental, emotional and spiritual dimensions. This isn't self-indulgence but strategic effectiveness: "One hour spent sharpening the saw can mean ten hours of increased productivity throughout the week."
Ready to transform your school culture?
Covey recommends starting your journey by applying the habits personally before introducing them to your school community. When educators model these principles authentically, they create the foundation for sustainable change that equips students with lifelong leadership capabilities while creating vibrant, purpose-driven learning environments.
Leader In Me:
To take your first steps, visit Leader in Me:
To start your Leader In Me Journey, reach out to the Franklin Covey Team. The key contact is Claire Banks: Claire Banks Email: Claire.Banks@franklincovey.com.au.
Achieving Greatness in Education through Franklin Covey Education:
To find further information about the FranklinCovey programs offered through the NSW Primary Principals Association, visit these links:
- The 7 Habits: https://www.nswppa.org.au/7-habits
- Leading at the Speed of Trust: https://www.nswppa.org.au/leading-at-the-speed-of-trust
- Multipliers: https://www.nswppa.org.au/multipliers
- The 4 Essential Roles of Leadership: https://www.nswppa.org.au/4essentials
- FranklinCovey Coaching: https://www.nswppa.org.au/franklincoveycoaching
Links and References:
To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning
To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Season 3 of Professional Learnings, the
New South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
I'm Drew Janetsky, back as yourhost for a brand new season.
It's great for you to be withus as we continue this journey
of learning, leading and drawinginspiration from the incredible
insights of our amazing guests.
(00:21):
Let's dive into our latestepisode our amazing guests.
Let's dive into our latestepisode.
Today, we're delighted to haveSean Covey joining us.
A New York Times bestsellingauthor, president of Franklin
Covey Education and a leadingvoice in personal and
professional development, seanhas written influential books
like the Seven Habits of HighlyEffective Teams, the Leader in
(00:45):
Me, the Six Most ImportantDecisions You'll Ever Make and
the Four Disciplines ofExecution, which was named
number one Wall Street Journalbestseller and quickly became an
international bestseller.
His work has truly inspiredmillions of educators, students,
students and professionalsaround the world.
Sean was incredible listeningto his inspirational words,
(01:10):
particularly showing the impactof the seven habits of highly
effective people, as well as hiscurrent mission in the Leader
in Me program.
Before we begin our fulldiscussion, let's listen to an
extract from our conversation.
Before we begin our fulldiscussion, let's listen to an
extract from our conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
These kids are all educated in the seven habits and
so are the adults.
They speak that language.
They have WIGs four disciplinesof execution, wildly important
goals.
And it's to increase theirscores on their reading tests
(01:47):
and the whole school is focusedon it.
And every kid has a goalaligned to that goal right.
And then every kid has aleadership role and
responsibility.
Every kid.
This person's in charge ofplayground.
This person's in charge ofhelping others Really good
writer helps other write essays,you know.
(02:08):
This person is in charge ofcleaning up in the lunchroom
every day.
And all these roles are some ofthem are rotated and some of
them they apply for.
The kids do a ton of publicspeaking.
They're really preparing themfor the workforce.
Tons of public speaking, goalsetting.
And the culture of the schoolis remarkable.
(02:32):
The initiative of the kids wasoff the charts.
So we went to an assembly.
The whole thing was led by kids.
They were the speakers, theyran the AV.
That's one of the things weteach in Leader.
Leader Me is turn the schoolover to the kids, watch what
they can do.
You'll be surprised at how wellthey can do things.
You can be a guide to the side.
(02:52):
You don't have to be leading it.
Let the kids do it.
But that was in this and theirscores are some of the highest
in California.
Their math and reading scores,their attendance, their path to
high school and collegegraduation some of the highest
in a school that has no rightdoing that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sean Covey, it's an honor and pleasure to have you
here today, welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Thank you, drew, it's good to be with you.
I've been to Australia oncehere today.
Welcome.
Thank you, drew, it's good tobe with you.
I've been to Australia once andhope to return.
Beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, we'd love to have you over, particularly in
New South Wales, so more thanwelcome to come, absolutely yes.
Now, sean, let's start withyour journey and what led you to
focus your career on empoweringyoung people and educators
through leadership and personaldevelopment.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Sure.
So my father, stephen Covey.
He wrote the Seven Habits book,as a lot of people know, right,
and so growing up I went andlistened to him speak all the
time and he was just a greatteacher.
He was a good dad and a reallygood teacher as well.
(04:09):
But I played American footballand actually the time I went to
Australia was in we went toMelbourne and we played an
American football game there atyour cricket field to try to
promote American football.
But I was a football player andyou know American football is
huge in America, and so I wasgiven a platform.
(04:33):
I was the starting quarterback,the guy that throws the ball,
you know, and runs the team forour team.
And so they would high schoolswould ask me to come speak to
the kids, right, because I wasfootball, the quarterback.
And so I did that once and Ienjoyed it.
And then, a couple of times, Iended up doing maybe 400
speeches over a four-year periodand I kind of learned to talk
(04:57):
to students, to kids, middleschool, high school kids,
elementary kids.
So that's how it all started.
And then one day I got the ideaof taking my dad's book and
writing one for teens, yeah, andso it hit me.
I thought these principles mydad's writing about, you know,
(05:18):
being proactive and beginningwith the end in mind and
thinking win-win and takingcharge of your life and these,
these apply so well to anyone,at any age, including a 15 year
old or 10 year old, 12 year old.
And so that's where the ideacame, and so, ever since then,
I've been focused on trying tohelp kids understand how to be
(05:42):
happy and successful livingthese habits and improving their
lives.
So I've I've been in theeducation space, you know, since
um, since college yeah, yeah,it's such, it's so profound.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's so important that teenage space, because um
growing through social media,there's a lot of research and
evidence around anxiety.
At the moment there's somereally strong work by Jonathan
Haidt's work in the ExistGeneration In terms of the.
(06:16):
There's a lot of parallels withthe seven habits and supporting
teenagers and students at thispoint in time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yes, yes, there is.
So you know, as you share, it'skind of a perfect storm right
now for teenagers A lot ofanxiety, depression, trauma.
Unfortunately, it's just offthe charts, and more so in girls
(06:45):
than boys, but boys too.
But you know, today in a recentpoll I saw, you know, you got
50% of the girls that feelhopeless, literally hopeless, or
feel like they don't measure up, and I think social media is a
big part of it.
Covid didn't help and people,they're living their life on a
stage right All the time withlikes and social media and
(07:09):
everything, and so it makes itreally hard.
So the seven habits give theygive you your life back because
they remind you that I'm incharge.
Right, be proactive.
I can have someone saysomething bad about my hair and
not let it ruin my day.
I can begin with the end inmind and I can have a goal and a
vision and I can see beyond thechallenges I have right now.
(07:33):
Right, and I can think win-win,which means I can care about
myself and care about anotherperson equally Right, and learn
to balance that and not have tobe win-lose, which is getting
ahead of somebody else, orlose-win, which is getting
stepped on right.
I had one teenage girl wrote meand she just said hey, mr Covey,
(07:55):
I read your teen book.
Oh my gosh, it's changed mylife.
She said I used to compete withthis girl who was just like me.
She was in drama and debate andwas very outgoing and showy
like me and I hated her.
And then I read your book onThink Win Win and I realized
(08:15):
life isn't a competition.
There's competition in sportsand in you know who's going to
be the starting this or that, orin business, but in
relationships there's no winnersand losers.
And she said I learned I readThink Win-Win, I realized this
girl can be my friend and it'schanged everything.
I didn't know you could thinkthis way.
(08:38):
And so I got that letter and Ithought wow, this is these kids.
This is powerful.
These kids understand theseconcepts inherently.
It's inside of them, these areprinciples and they are unlike
us adults.
They're quick to change, theycan get a new idea in their mind
and they can just change thetrajectory of their lives so
(08:59):
fast.
And we've learned in schoolsthat these seven habits they get
inside kids and they arepowerful because these are tools
they can use to realize Imatter, I'm different, but I'm
important and I can succeedpersonally and with other people
(09:19):
by following these habits thesehabits, yeah, yeah, and I can
feel that passion still comingthrough Sean and hearing that
messages, and I'm sure you getmany letters like that showing
the impact of the work which isso powerful In terms of you
briefly went through.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I mean, what inspired you to write for younger
audience and how has that shapedyour work with schools?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, well, I, you know, I wrote this, this
teenage book, and then, you know, years later we had a.
There was an elementary schoolthat was really failing.
It was in Raleigh, northCarolina, in America, and it was
a public school and they had,you know, a capacity for 800
(10:09):
kids in the school and they had300 enrolled and it was about to
be shut down because it wasdoing so poorly.
And the principal, murielSummers, she came across the
seven habits, stephen Covey, myfather was teaching them, and
she happened to go to hisworkshop and she was told two
weeks before that she'd be firedunless she could turn the
(10:31):
school around.
So she's desperate.
Here's him.
Talk about, you know, thinkingwhen, when, and sharpening the
saw body, heart, mind and spirit.
You've got to balance your lifeand seeking first to understand
, then to be understood.
So he's teaching this and shesays, oh, my goodness, this is
exactly what we need in ourschool.
So she went up, Dr Covey,during a break.
(10:56):
Can these principles be taughtto young kids?
And he goes well.
My son's done it with sevenhabits for teens, and she goes
well.
I teach five, six, seven, eight, nine-year-olds.
Can it be done with them?
He goes.
I don't know why not Give it atry and let me know how it goes?
So she started this leadershipschool teaching the seven habits
to you know, six-year-olds,eight-year-olds, 10-year-olds,
(11:20):
and in three years, number oneschool in the country blew
everybody away.
They had 50% poverty, 50% ofthe kids were poverty level, 28
languages spoken in the school.
Because it was a transient area, a lot of move-ins and
move-outs, but she created thisculture with a common language
of leadership and they justexcelled academically,
(11:45):
culturally.
Housing prices in the areadoubled, 300 students became 800
with a 200-person waiting list.
That was called Leader in Me,what she did, and we now have
that in 8,000 schools, includingabout 100 there in Australia.
But it just shows the power ofgetting this content to young
(12:07):
kids.
But it starts with the adultsin the school, right, they need
to think and model it with theircolleague across the hall and
that culture just goeseverywhere and the kids see that
and then when they learn thehabits and learn how to write a
personal mission statement orhow to resolve a conflict with a
(12:30):
friend, it resonates right andit's powerful and it's compound
interest of the adults doing thesame thing the kids are doing
and so it really impacts schoolsand it's really cool to see,
and so it really impacts schoolsand it's really cool to see
yeah, what a journey, and interms of where, how long ago did
that start?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
When did that journey start?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it started in about 2010, so about 15 years
ago, and today we have about8,000 schools.
Probably another 2,000 or sowill join, but it's spreading
across the world, in 50countries so far, and it's just
when you think about it.
(13:13):
You go to school and you learnhow to read, write, do math, and
now you're learning thesesocial emotional skills.
You're learning how to set andachieve goals, learning how to
manage your own temperament.
You're learning how to manageyour time.
You're learning how to set andachieve goals, learning how to
manage your own temperament.
You're learning how to manageyour time.
You're learning how to resolveconflicts.
You're learning how to you know, lead teams, how to balance
your life, and so theselife-ready skills, career-ready
(13:37):
skills, college-ready skills areimbued into the curriculum.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, and that's why it's resonated so well from one
school and I heard 8,000-plusschools across the globe, which
is showing the connection acrossthe globe Fantastic, yeah, yeah
.
So now, as the president ofFranklin Covey in Education,
(14:03):
what drives your vision forequipping educators and students
with these leadership skills?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yes, well, as we've gone out and done research, the
biggest challenges right now andthese are pretty uniform across
the globe are, you know, one ismental wellness, both with
teachers and with students.
Another one is just keepingyour people the interest in
(14:36):
education, hiring, getting a lotof interest in these positions
to be administrator or teacher,and then keeping people there's
a lot of interest in thesepositions to be an administrator
or a teacher, and then keepingpeople.
There's a lot of turnover COVIDexacerbated that that's a big
one.
And then, I think, justjuggling everything because
there's so many demands.
You've got demands from parents, you've got demands from
(14:58):
government coming down on you,and so trying to manage all
these balls in the air andkeeping your sanity right.
So what drives me is to try to.
I think educators are the bestpeople in the world.
My dad was an educator.
I think, outside of the work wedo in our own homes with our
(15:19):
own children, the most importantwork going on in the world by
far is the work we're doing inschools.
We're nurturing and trainingthe future and trying to help
these kids realize their worthand potential.
So what motivates me is justtrying to help teachers
understand.
You know you're doing great.
Here's some tools to help youout.
(15:42):
Remember why you got intoeducation in the first place.
Don't let all those side thingsbeat you up too much.
You know, yeah, yeah, we'recoming out with a new book this
fall called Teacher Believed inMe and it's the science and
heart of making a difference inthe lives of students and it's
basically how to buildrelationships with students and
(16:04):
it's all research-based and inthis book we talk about just all
the different things you can do, um, to build that relationship
and and we're finding that, um,as we've tested this, it so
resonates with educators that golike, yes, that's why, that's
why I got here in the firstplace.
You know, for example, one ofthe deposits you can make into
the emotional bank account of astudent is to know them, know
(16:26):
their names, yeah Right, justsomething that simple.
And starting a class by sayingsomething like good morning
class.
You know of 30.
Why don't we go around to theroom real quick and do a
highlight and a low light of theweek?
Everyone just take, you know,15, 20 seconds.
What was a highlight and lowlight?
(16:47):
Oh, yeah, well, we won thesoccer game, woo, and you know
my, you know my best friendmoved, you know.
And so just something thatsimple is the front end of a
class, the back end of a class,little things you can do to
(17:07):
create connection between youand the students, the students
and each other.
So, anyway, that's that's whatmotivates me, is I, you know, I,
I think I have so muchadmiration for all of you
educators, I have so muchadmiration for all of you
educators.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, and thank you for the work in terms of the
impact and what I'm hearing isyou're constantly listening to
the narrative of educators.
You've got the pulse check onwhat is occurring at the moment
with mental wellness, keepinggood teachers in the profession
as well, knowing what thewhirlwind around them and coming
(17:46):
down on them is, and it'sreally nice to hear in terms of
that sounds exciting.
The title was called TeachersBelieve in Me.
That sounds like almost anexclusive on our podcast today,
but thank you for sharing thatsounds and the tips that you
just said.
Like getting to know people,like having that connection is
(18:10):
so crucial to it's not juststudents aren't just test
results.
They are actual human beingsand what drives them, what's in
their world, caring about them,is a key message in
relationships.
Having that relationshipsbefore delivering content is so
(18:30):
crucial.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
So key.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, if we switch gears now to the seven habits,
which is so iconic and foreducational leaders, managing
the complexities that we'vetalked about and change, which
habits do you think are the mosttransformative?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Sure, well, I mean, the most important habit of the
seven is the one you're havingthe most difficult time living,
right, yeah, but I'll just startwith one.
So Habit 7 is called Sharpenthe Saw.
It's the idea we should neverbe too busy driving to take time
(19:09):
to get gas, and we should neverbe too busy living to take time
to sharpen ourselves mentally,emotionally, physically and
spiritually.
And by spiritually I mean whatdrives you, your motivation
right, your inspiration.
And I start with this one foreducators because there's so
(19:29):
much burnout.
And burnout happens because youhave a hard job and you're
juggling lots of stakeholdersand needs, a lot of people, and
you're struggling, a lot of kidsthat are struggling, right, and
you're having to manage all ofthat, and so you tend to give a
lot, and so you burn yourselfout and you get worn out and
(19:51):
that's why so many are leavingthe profession.
But I just encourage you thatit's okay to take time to
sharpen your saw.
In fact you've got to do it,and if you don't do it you will
burn out and you need to findyour own routines for managing
that.
So you know, for the body it'sgood nutrition, stress
(20:13):
management, exercise, whateveryou need, you know good rest.
I mean increasingly that theresearch on sleep is so.
I used to not sleep at alluntil I read the book why we
sleep and realized I was livingdrunk effectively right, really
like you weren't a very.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You had a small amount of sleep in your I
wouldn't get enough sleep and Ithought it was kind of a macho
thing.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I get by on, I can get by in five hours, yeah, yeah
, right.
And then I realized that I wasuh, just not my, I didn't have
my full strength, right, and sothat's important, right, and and
then you're mentally, what areyou doing to grow, develop, get
(20:58):
better at your profession?
Attending conferences, reading,reading, studying, you know,
emotionally, connecting with thepeople that you know?
The heart is aboutrelationships and doing things
to keep those relationships, themost important ones, strong in
your life.
Then, spiritually, what drivesyou, what motivates you?
(21:18):
And it can be literature, couldbe practicing a religion, it
could be meditation, it could bewalk in, walking in nature, um,
you know, there's lots ofdifferent ways people inspire
themselves goal setting, um, andso on, but, uh, most people, I
mean entropy takes over if youdon't have a plan for doing this
(21:41):
.
I love this story aboutLin-Manuel Miranda.
He's the one that wroteAlexander Hamilton, the new
musical.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Has been a smash hit, came out about five years ago,
has won every award, isconsidered the greatest musical
of all time.
And he talks about how foryears he had been working on
other plays and never took abreak and was exhausted and he
said, finally, I realized I needa vacation with my family and I
needed a long vacation.
And so he went on vacation toPuerto Rico, the Island of
Puerto Rico in the Gulf ofMexico, you know, and while he
(22:30):
was in the airport he picked upa book called Alexander Hamilton
.
It's about the found one of thefounding fathers of America.
And he, he read this book and,um, he went on to say he, you
know, it gave him the idea towrite this play.
So after his vacation he cameback and this was his new work
(22:52):
and it's made him famous.
And, um, it's been just anincredible work.
And but he said these words, hesaid it's no surprise, the best
idea I've ever had, the bestidea I'll probably ever had,
have came to me on vacation.
And then, um, you know I'vedone a lot of research on some
(23:14):
real great producers and howthey all had their own routines
of taking time off and relaxingand sharpening their saws so
they could get inspiration andideas and could be at their best
.
And so the idea is we do ourbest work Um, when we are
(23:35):
relaxed and rested properly andemotionally stable.
And so I give you permission,told that, to take time to
sharpen your saw, because thereturn on the time you spend
there is tenfold one hour spentsharpening the saw can mean 10
(23:55):
hours of increased productivitythroughout the week yeah, and
and the fact that you it'sbacked with evidence and
research as well, sean, and whata powerful story in terms of,
of, of.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Uh, I'll get the name , is it lynn man?
Manuel did I get.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, his name is lynn manuel miranda.
Yeah, alexander Hamilton.
The place called Hamilton yeah,I'm sure it's in some of your
big cities there.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
But the story behind that is sointriguing in terms of and the
message is just don't burnyourself out, colleagues.
Just take the time to lookafter yourself and go and have
that vacation and come backrefreshed and ready with energy.
(24:47):
Otherwise you're going to belike a hamster on a wheel, so to
speak, burning yourself out.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and you need vacation time.
You also need time every day todo.
You know, I call it the dailyprivate victory.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Every day you have your own little routine.
You know for you know for me Iget up early and I go and
exercise and I read and I planmy day.
It takes one hour and it's myfoundation for everything else.
Right, I win that victory, myfoundation for everything else.
(25:22):
Right, I win that victory overself, in a sense.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And then it prepares me for you know all the battles
of the day.
And if you some things comethrough, if you miss that,
hypothetically, how do you feelafter that?
Do you feel a bit disappointedin?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
yourself if you don't get to that, or have you made
that a disciplined approach inyour world?
Well, I've made it adisciplined approach, but I
don't get to it every day andsometimes things interrupt.
But if I can get to it 80% ofthe time right, then over a long
period of time it's working.
And so, like today, I got upand I had podcasts starting
really early this morning and Ididn't have time to sharpen my
(26:08):
saw this morning, but tomorrowI'll spend a little bit more
time, yeah yeah, yeah, that's agood message as well to say you
know it's okay, but just keepdoing consistently repeating,
consistently repeating.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
and that's what the journey of I've read and seen
through your work with, withyour, with your background, in
writing.
That's what you did every day.
You took the time to put thathour in and you just gradually
did that to get to the, the, theseven habits for highly
successful teenagers.
It wasn't a quick fix.
(26:43):
It was a long-term journey foryou to ensure that that work was
obviously highly effective.
Yeah, and practice, in terms ofif we go to shifting to how
school leaders, how could schoolleaders embed the seven habits
into the culture of theirschools to create long-term
impact?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
sure?
Well, I think that, um, lookingat the example of ab combs that
I shared earlier, yeah, um, itneeds to be ubiquitous, meaning
everywhere all the time, andit's got to start with you.
It's an inside out approach.
The best single thing you cando is just, you know, read the
book yourself.
And again, the book was writtenby my father, stephen Covey.
(27:28):
It was his life's work, basedon, you know, 200 years.
He basically looked at 200years of research and
synthesized these into thesehabits, right?
And so I think, getting thatbook and getting it inside of
(27:48):
you yourself, and just startingas a model, doing your best to
being proactive yourself, right,and having an end in mind, you
might want to then say, afteryou've kind of done it yourself,
I do a book, study honestly andhave everyone read the book,
discuss it, what's working foryou, what doesn't work?
(28:10):
And then maybe the next stepwould be write a mission
statement as a school.
You might have one, you mightnot, but sometimes people have
them but they don't really meananything because it didn't come
from the current team.
Right, I would rewrite it if,and just say what's the purpose
of our school, what are wetrying to accomplish?
Let's not just put a platitudeon the wall, but let's do
(28:33):
something that really is aboutwho we are right and that can be
a powerful experience, and thenjust start using a common
language.
Common language is how youbuild culture.
You know, hey, we need to thinkwin-win.
You know, third grade teachers,have you listened to the start
(28:55):
first to understand what theupper grades are saying?
You know, you get a commonlanguage going and it starts
with the adults in the schooland it can be really powerful if
it's done by everybody.
Of course you're going to havea few teachers that don't, I
don't want to do this, this isstupid, and then some that don't
(29:16):
want to change.
But we've learned that if youdon't need everyone, you need a
critical mass, and it startswith the principal.
The principal gets on boardevery everyone eventually does
and the culture takes over andit just it becomes a behavior
standard and a common language,and then you can bring it to the
(29:38):
students right at that pointand you just integrate it into
lessons.
This is what AB CombsElementary, the school I told
you about earlier did.
They just started integratingit into lessons.
We're teaching poetry, robertFrost poetry.
Let's talk about his poem.
(29:58):
Which habits do you see, wererepresented in his poem.
Two roads diverged in the woodand I took the road less
traveled by.
I saw this the other day inschool and these kids were
saying, well, I think itrepresents habit too, because
they had to begin with the endin mind of which road to take.
And other kids said, well, Ithink it's habit one, because
they had to choose right andit'd be proactive.
(30:20):
And I thought, wow, what a richdiscussion, what a great way to
teach a habit, instead ofsaying, hey, habit two is this
yeah, yeah.
Integrate it into PE physicaleducation, into your English
classes, into your math.
There's just so many ways.
Do it on the playground.
Two kids are fighting.
Hey kids, are you thinkingwin-win.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
And those are just greatexamples, really practical
advice, of how to integrate thatinto the everyday, for teachers
to incorporate it, whether it'sin English or whether it's in
any key learning area on theplayground as well.
In terms of the what makes doyou think Leader and Me so
effective and why do you thinkit resonates so well with
(31:07):
educators and students alike?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yes, I've thought about this a lot.
Why is it in 8,000 schools andgrowing?
Four reasons Number one it'sbased on different paradigms.
Paradigm is, you know, a lensthrough which you see the world.
It's a belief system, right.
And the paradigms of leader inme are everyone can be a leader.
(31:33):
Students, every one of you canbe a leader, right?
Everyone has genius.
That there's gifts in everystudent.
You might be very smartacademically, you're smart, very
smart emotionally, which can'tbe measured, and you're very
smart you know with languagesand you're good at making people
(31:56):
laugh and right.
So everyone has genius.
Change starts with me that if Iwant my school to change, I got
to get along better with myspouse.
I need to get along better withmy colleague across the hall.
And then that we don't controllearning but we empower students
(32:19):
to lead their own learning.
It's a paradigm.
Job is not to give yousomething, it's to empower you
to own your own learning.
And then, finally, the paradigmthat we educate the whole child
, not just the academic child,because the kid can feel if all
they are is a test score, theydon't like how that feels.
(32:40):
No one does right, and we knowthat they're whole people and
they'll do better with theirtest score if they're treated as
a whole person.
So paradigms, that's one reasonit works.
The second reason is ubiquitouseverywhere, all the time.
You can't just do this in oneclassroom and see a big cultural
change.
You can't just do it with theadults, just the kids, just the
(33:01):
principal.
It's got to be everywhere allthe time.
A third is you've got to haveit's the powerful content that
you have of the seven habits isa common framework, right?
That gives you a behaviorstandard.
And then you've got the fourdisciplines of execution, which
(33:24):
is goal setting, achievement.
It teaches you how to go aftersomething as an organization,
right?
So those three things.
And then, finally, it's justthe simple thing of it works.
Because it's based on timelessprinciples.
That's why it's popular.
(33:46):
I was just in Pakistan a fewweeks ago and there's 500
schools, huge schools inPakistan that love this or
eating it up.
Because it's based onprinciples of initiative and
hard work and, um, you know,balance and vision and
(34:14):
prioritization, right?
These things that everyone,every society, agrees with.
If you follow the principle ofmutual benefit, it'll succeed,
whether it's in Japan or Jakartaor New South Wales, right, yeah
, it's going to work everywhere.
So that's why LeaderMeresonates and why it sticks is
those four reasons.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, yeah, terrific In terms of you've mentioned
then, you've been to Pakistanand what an experience that
would have been.
You travel all around the globe.
Is there any specific examplesor school that you've seen?
Wow, this has had literally me,has had a real measurable
impact.
Sure, I'm sure you've gotplenty yeah, I've got.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I've got plenty.
Um, I'll just, uh, talk aboutone I went to about two weeks
ago.
It was in downtown Los Angeleskind of a really sketchy area.
Yeah, you're a little bitnervous to even drive there and
it's a really sketchyneighborhood and A lot of crime
(35:20):
in the area.
And you walk into this school.
It's an elementary school andit's an oasis.
I mean it was incredible Walkedinto this school, it locked the
gates, oh, nice Welcome you getthat idea when you get inside
it's just an oasis.
These kids are all educated inthe seven habits, and so are the
(35:44):
adults.
They speak that language.
They have WIGs four disciplinesof execution wildly important
goals.
And it's to increase their youknow their scores on their
reading tests and the wholeschool is focused on it.
And every kid has a goalaligned to that goal right.
(36:08):
And then every kid has aleadership role and
responsibility.
Every kid, this person's incharge of playground.
This person's in charge ofhelping others.
A really good writer helpsother write essays.
You know, this person is incharge of cleaning up in the
lunchroom every day.
And all these roles some ofthem are rotated and some of
(36:31):
them they apply for.
The kids do a ton of publicspeaking.
They're really preparing themfor the workforce.
Tons of public speaking, goalsetting.
And the culture of the schoolis remarkable and the initiative
of the kids was off the charts.
So we went to an assembly.
The whole thing was led by kids.
(36:51):
They were the speakers, theyran the AV.
That's one of the things weteach in Leader in Me is turn
the school over to the kids,watch what they can do.
You'll be surprised at how wellthey can do things.
You can be a guide to the side,but you don't have to be
leading it.
Let the kids do it, but thatwas in this and their scores are
(37:12):
some of the highest inCalifornia their math and
reading scores, their attendance, their you know path to high
school and college graduationsome of the highest in a school
that you has no right doing thatin in terms of people
externally looking in would go,they'd say they they'd have the
(37:33):
unconscious bias, so to speak,in and have that thought process
about what those students wouldbe capable of.
Based on that, and then exactly,Just because they come from a
lot of poverty in a real tougharea, not really strong family
backgrounds, and these kids areoverachieving from where they
(37:55):
are supposed to be, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But I could tell you you know hundreds of stories
like that.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, that's amazing because, in terms of just
bringing it to the context ofour main audience in New South
Wales, just to give you thecontext is 1,800 primary schools
that the New South WalesPrimary Principals Association
represents and they're scatteredfrom Sydney metro areas across
(38:26):
a vast landscape of New SouthWales, from rural to remote.
I guess in terms of thelisteners thinking and saying,
look, this sounds terrific, howwould I start this process and
what's the best advice there?
Sean Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, we have.
So in the 8,000 schools youknow, we've got inner city
schools like the one I just toldyou about.
We also have schools in remoteareas, you know in Kentucky,
where the schools are.
Some of them have 10 studentsand some have 50 and some have
100.
And they're really spread outright.
But this process works reallywell in those schools as well.
(39:12):
And I think the best place tostart is, honestly, again, start
with yourself.
And if you're interested indoing Leader in Me, we run
Leader in Me out of Australiaand we have a team there and
it's not very expensive allthings considered.
And if you're interested, youcan just go to the web and
(39:35):
Google us and find out.
We can come in and help you getstarted.
If you're not up for that rightnow, you can start just by
doing what I talked about before, which is read the book, start
implementing some of thepractices, read the Seven Habits
book and.
But you know we'd, of course,love to work with you if you
(39:58):
have that interest.
But you know it starts with you.
Got to believe, got to rememberwhy you're doing this in the
first place and the paradigmsare foundational, what I shared
before when we went to AB Combs,the school that was failing and
became number one in America.
The first thing I noticed whenI came home.
(40:21):
I said to my wife we're goingto move to that city because we
need our kids to go there.
And she goes.
What was different?
And I thought for a moment.
I said their teachers believethat every child was a genius.
I didn't get it.
I just thought, wow, why arethey're so affirming in the way
(40:42):
they're treating these kids?
And every kid is given a chanceto shine, because sometimes we
just give the chance to shine tothe person that's really good
at writing the essay or on thesports field.
There are a hundred talents,right, and they had a way of
just bringing them out.
(41:02):
And they had a way of justbringing them out.
And so I just think it juststarts with honestly saying I
believe that every child herecan be a leader.
It doesn't mean you're thestudent body president, because
we always think about you, know,the class leader, the president
, but no, you can lead your ownlife.
You can be a leader of othersjust by doing the right thing
(41:23):
when no one is watching, andeveryone can lead in different
ways, right?
So that paradigm isfoundational to everything else
and it starts there.
And the reality is mostteachers feel that way.
That's why they went intoteaching is they see kids that
aren't behaving properly?
Their software is out of syncwith their hardware.
(41:45):
Their hardware is greatness andtheir software is messed up
right now because they'redepressed or because they've had
some trauma right and teacherswant to say no, I'm going to
help you replace your softwareto remember who you are and give
(42:06):
you some behavior standards soyou can become who you should be
and are capable of becoming.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's essentially what research is showing.
The teenagers are glued to thealgorithms bringing them back
into the social media and ifthey type in depression or
something, it just it compoundsin that space.
So it's a whirlwind around them.
And then what I've heard isjust have an understanding of
(42:34):
sense of self through sevenhabits, through knowing yourself
and what you stand for, whatyour values are.
It's similar to educators aswell.
The whirlwind around them willkeep on whirling, but if you
don't have the sense of self,then you won't be able to have a
(42:54):
sense of purpose andachievement.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yes, yeah, in the Seven Habits book you know the
seven habits are are beproactive, begin with the end in
mind, put first things first.
Those are the first threehabits.
It's about you and it's it'skind of the idea of getting your
own act together first.
Habits four, five and six areabout others.
(43:18):
Think, win, win, seek first tounderstand, then to be
understood, synerize.
It's about victory with people.
And then habit seven is sharpenthe saw, which kind of keeps
the first six alive.
But there's a sequence to these.
This isn't just seven things,it's a sequence.
Private victories first threehabits always come before public
(43:38):
victories.
And so often in life we'retrying to work on a relationship
problem Habit five.
Maybe we're trying to work on arelationship problem habit five
.
Maybe we're not seeking for usto understand when the real
challenge is we haven't gotourselves right first.
We need to go back and win aprivate victory.
We need to get our intent right.
You know what's my end in mind.
(43:59):
What am I trying to get donehere?
What am I trying to get donehere?
And if you will start withyourself, nine out of ten times
relationship problems are youand you've got to kind of fix
yourself first.
So often people take sevenhabits oh, my boss needs this,
(44:19):
my spouse needs this, my partnerneeds this, spouse needs this
right, my partner needs this.
When, um, typically mostproblems start with start with
ourselves.
I, I remember one time my son, Iplayed, uh, you know, american
college football and I wanted tomake the pros, but then I blew
(44:39):
my, I hurt my knee.
I got married and my first, myfirst child, you know, was a,
was a boy, and so I thought I'mgoing to have him achieve all my
dreams for me, and I trainedhim to be a really good football
player.
He was outstanding.
And then, when he was about 15,he came to me and told me he
didn't want to play anymore.
(44:59):
And I just fell apartemotionally because I'd spent 15
years getting him ready right,it was so good, and I I was
upset with him, I was making himfeel guilty, and finally I
realized I wasn't listening atall, and so I had to check
myself.
I had to kind of win a privatevictory and say what am I trying
to do, raise a quarterback orraise a son?
(45:20):
And I thought no, I'm trying todown deep, I'm trying to raise
a son.
Do I really thought, no, I'mtrying to down deep.
I'm trying to raise a son.
Do I really care if he's agreat quarterback?
No, it'd be fun, but not really.
And so, for the first time, Iwas able to listen to him,
because I won a private victory,and he told me about how, how
he felt small and how he was 50pounds lighter than everybody
(45:42):
else and how he, how beat up hegot the year before and that's
why he didn't want to play.
And, and I understood him forthe first time.
Right, that was like a publicvictory with him.
I, we, we connected.
I understood him, he understoodme.
But I had to go back to myselffirst.
Right, it took me like twoweeks to have it One.
(46:04):
Two weeks to have it one.
Be proactive, use my conscience, self-awareness to realize I
was trying to put my agenda intohis life.
And then what's my end in mind?
Began with the end of mind haveit to raise a son, not a
quarterback.
Got myself right, we're able tofix this relationship problem.
Um, it didn't matter if heplayed football or not anymore,
(46:25):
right, I just we had this goodrelationship.
So my point is start withyourself.
Most challenges are things youneed to get right yourself, and
the seven habits just give you anice.
It's a nice synthesizedframework.
Stephen Covey did for the sevenhabits with the seven habits.
Stephen Covey did for the sevenhabits with the seven habits
(46:52):
what Steve Jobs and Bill Gatesdid for the graphical user
interface they took somethingvery complicated computers and
made it accessible to the masses.
The seven habits it's the samething.
It takes something that's kindof complicated, self-improvement
, makes it accessible to themasses, makes it really simple.
A sequenced, research-basedapproach that stands the test of
time.
That basically says hey, if youwant to be effective, happy,
(47:16):
successful, achieve your fullpotential, start with you.
Private victory, be proactive,don't be a victim, take charge,
take initiative.
You're in the driver's seat ofyour life, you're not a
passenger.
And then begin with the end inmind.
What is your mission statement?
What are your goals?
What is your blueprint forsuccess in your life?
(47:38):
Then, put first things first.
Make sure the things thatmatter most get the proper time
and attention they need.
Prioritize, say no to thethings that are less important.
I'm talking too much here, drew, but that's the idea.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
And I could just keep listening.
And so many takeaways there,sean, in terms of real key
messages for our listeners aswell.
It's been an absolute privilegefor you to be with us today.
Your insights into theleadership education they're so
inspiring and they're practicalfor our audience as well as
(48:13):
school leaders, not just in NewSouth Wales, Australia, but
beyond all of our educatorslistening can resonate with that
.
Congratulations on the mission,the work of the leader in me,
and thank you for the work thatyou're continuing to lead and
looking forward to more in termsof the next, what's coming next
(48:36):
and I heard at the startteachers believe in me, really
excited to be hearing when thatcomes out soon.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great, yeah, leave in me really
excited to be hearing when thatcomes out soon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great, yeah,I, uh, I look forward to coming
to australia again and seeingthe leader of me schools, and my
son, as I shared before, is, uh, he loves reptiles and you have
a lot of them there and so, um,he's always wanted to go to
(49:04):
australia, so so I look forwardto a visit soon.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
And that brings us to the end of today's episode with
Sean Covey.
All of the links and referenceswe discussed today can be found
in our show notes, so make sureto check those out.
If you enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast and please feel free toshare this with other
educational leaders in yournetwork who would find this
(49:29):
conversation really valuable.
A huge thanks again to SeanCovey and the Franklin Covey
team for making this podcastpossible.
Remember, franklin Covey buildsexceptional leaders, teams and
cultures that achieve realresults, and that's why we, the
New South Wales PrimaryPrincipals Association, are
proud to partner withFranklinCovey Education to
(49:51):
support you on your journeytowards greatness in education.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Welcome to Season 3 of Professional Learnings, the
New South Wales PPA EducationalLeadership Podcast.
I'm Drew Janetsky, back as yourhost for a brand new season.
It's great for you to be withus as we continue this journey
of learning, leading and drawinginspiration from the incredible
insights of our amazing guests.
(00:21):
Let's dive into our latestepisode our amazing guests.
Let's dive into our latestepisode.
Today, we're delighted to haveSean Covey joining us.
A New York Times bestsellingauthor, president of Franklin
Covey Education and a leadingvoice in personal and
professional development, seanhas written influential books
like the Seven Habits of HighlyEffective Teams, the Leader in
(00:45):
Me, the Six Most ImportantDecisions You'll Ever Make and
the Four Disciplines ofExecution, which was named
number one Wall Street Journalbestseller and quickly became an
international bestseller.
His work has truly inspiredmillions of educators, students,
students and professionalsaround the world.
Sean was incredible listeningto his inspirational words,
(01:10):
particularly showing the impactof the seven habits of highly
effective people, as well as hiscurrent mission in the Leader
in Me program.
Before we begin our fulldiscussion, let's listen to an
extract from our conversation.
Before we begin our fulldiscussion, let's listen to an
extract from our conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
These kids are all educated in the seven habits and
so are the adults.
They speak that language.
They have WIGs four disciplinesof execution, wildly important
goals.
And it's to increase theirscores on their reading tests
(01:47):
and the whole school is focusedon it.
And every kid has a goalaligned to that goal right.
And then every kid has aleadership role and
responsibility.
Every kid.
This person's in charge ofplayground.
This person's in charge ofhelping others Really good
writer helps other write essays,you know.
(02:08):
This person is in charge ofcleaning up in the lunchroom
every day.
And all these roles are some ofthem are rotated and some of
them they apply for.
The kids do a ton of publicspeaking.
They're really preparing themfor the workforce.
Tons of public speaking, goalsetting.
And the culture of the schoolis remarkable.
(02:32):
The initiative of the kids wasoff the charts.
So we went to an assembly.
The whole thing was led by kids.
They were the speakers, theyran the AV.
That's one of the things weteach in Leader.
Leader Me is turn the schoolover to the kids, watch what
they can do.
You'll be surprised at how wellthey can do things.
You can be a guide to the side.
(02:52):
You don't have to be leading it.
Let the kids do it.
But that was in this and theirscores are some of the highest
in California.
Their math and reading scores,their attendance, their path to
high school and collegegraduation some of the highest
in a school that has no rightdoing that.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sean Covey, it's an honor and pleasure to have you
here today, welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Thank you, drew, it's good to be with you.
I've been to Australia oncehere today.
Welcome.
Thank you, drew, it's good tobe with you.
I've been to Australia once andhope to return.
Beautiful country.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, we'd love to have you over, particularly in
New South Wales, so more thanwelcome to come, absolutely yes.
Now, sean, let's start withyour journey and what led you to
focus your career on empoweringyoung people and educators
through leadership and personaldevelopment.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Sure.
So my father, stephen Covey.
He wrote the Seven Habits book,as a lot of people know, right,
and so growing up I went andlistened to him speak all the
time and he was just a greatteacher.
He was a good dad and a reallygood teacher as well.
(04:09):
But I played American footballand actually the time I went to
Australia was in we went toMelbourne and we played an
American football game there atyour cricket field to try to
promote American football.
But I was a football player andyou know American football is
huge in America, and so I wasgiven a platform.
(04:33):
I was the starting quarterback,the guy that throws the ball,
you know, and runs the team forour team.
And so they would high schoolswould ask me to come speak to
the kids, right, because I wasfootball, the quarterback.
And so I did that once and Ienjoyed it.
And then, a couple of times, Iended up doing maybe 400
speeches over a four-year periodand I kind of learned to talk
(04:57):
to students, to kids, middleschool, high school kids,
elementary kids.
So that's how it all started.
And then one day I got the ideaof taking my dad's book and
writing one for teens, yeah, andso it hit me.
I thought these principles mydad's writing about, you know,
(05:18):
being proactive and beginningwith the end in mind and
thinking win-win and takingcharge of your life and these,
these apply so well to anyone,at any age, including a 15 year
old or 10 year old, 12 year old.
And so that's where the ideacame, and so, ever since then,
I've been focused on trying tohelp kids understand how to be
(05:42):
happy and successful livingthese habits and improving their
lives.
So I've I've been in theeducation space, you know, since
um, since college yeah, yeah,it's such, it's so profound.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's so important that teenage space, because um
growing through social media,there's a lot of research and
evidence around anxiety.
At the moment there's somereally strong work by Jonathan
Haidt's work in the ExistGeneration In terms of the.
(06:16):
There's a lot of parallels withthe seven habits and supporting
teenagers and students at thispoint in time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yes, yes, there is.
So you know, as you share, it'skind of a perfect storm right
now for teenagers A lot ofanxiety, depression, trauma.
Unfortunately, it's just offthe charts, and more so in girls
(06:45):
than boys, but boys too.
But you know, today in a recentpoll I saw, you know, you got
50% of the girls that feelhopeless, literally hopeless, or
feel like they don't measure up, and I think social media is a
big part of it.
Covid didn't help and people,they're living their life on a
stage right All the time withlikes and social media and
(07:09):
everything, and so it makes itreally hard.
So the seven habits give theygive you your life back because
they remind you that I'm incharge.
Right, be proactive.
I can have someone saysomething bad about my hair and
not let it ruin my day.
I can begin with the end inmind and I can have a goal and a
vision and I can see beyond thechallenges I have right now.
(07:33):
Right, and I can think win-win,which means I can care about
myself and care about anotherperson equally Right, and learn
to balance that and not have tobe win-lose, which is getting
ahead of somebody else, orlose-win, which is getting
stepped on right.
I had one teenage girl wrote meand she just said hey, mr Covey,
(07:55):
I read your teen book.
Oh my gosh, it's changed mylife.
She said I used to compete withthis girl who was just like me.
She was in drama and debate andwas very outgoing and showy
like me and I hated her.
And then I read your book onThink Win Win and I realized
(08:15):
life isn't a competition.
There's competition in sportsand in you know who's going to
be the starting this or that, orin business, but in
relationships there's no winnersand losers.
And she said I learned I readThink Win-Win, I realized this
girl can be my friend and it'schanged everything.
I didn't know you could thinkthis way.
(08:38):
And so I got that letter and Ithought wow, this is these kids.
This is powerful.
These kids understand theseconcepts inherently.
It's inside of them, these areprinciples and they are unlike
us adults.
They're quick to change, theycan get a new idea in their mind
and they can just change thetrajectory of their lives so
(08:59):
fast.
And we've learned in schoolsthat these seven habits they get
inside kids and they arepowerful because these are tools
they can use to realize Imatter, I'm different, but I'm
important and I can succeedpersonally and with other people
(09:19):
by following these habits thesehabits, yeah, yeah, and I can
feel that passion still comingthrough Sean and hearing that
messages, and I'm sure you getmany letters like that showing
the impact of the work which isso powerful In terms of you
briefly went through.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I mean, what inspired you to write for younger
audience and how has that shapedyour work with schools?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, well, I, you know, I wrote this, this
teenage book, and then, you know, years later we had a.
There was an elementary schoolthat was really failing.
It was in Raleigh, northCarolina, in America, and it was
a public school and they had,you know, a capacity for 800
(10:09):
kids in the school and they had300 enrolled and it was about to
be shut down because it wasdoing so poorly.
And the principal, murielSummers, she came across the
seven habits, stephen Covey, myfather was teaching them, and
she happened to go to hisworkshop and she was told two
weeks before that she'd be firedunless she could turn the
(10:31):
school around.
So she's desperate.
Here's him.
Talk about, you know, thinkingwhen, when, and sharpening the
saw body, heart, mind and spirit.
You've got to balance your lifeand seeking first to understand
, then to be understood.
So he's teaching this and shesays, oh, my goodness, this is
exactly what we need in ourschool.
So she went up, Dr Covey,during a break.
(10:56):
Can these principles be taughtto young kids?
And he goes well.
My son's done it with sevenhabits for teens, and she goes
well.
I teach five, six, seven, eight, nine-year-olds.
Can it be done with them?
He goes.
I don't know why not Give it atry and let me know how it goes?
So she started this leadershipschool teaching the seven habits
to you know, six-year-olds,eight-year-olds, 10-year-olds,
(11:20):
and in three years, number oneschool in the country blew
everybody away.
They had 50% poverty, 50% ofthe kids were poverty level, 28
languages spoken in the school.
Because it was a transient area, a lot of move-ins and
move-outs, but she created thisculture with a common language
of leadership and they justexcelled academically,
(11:45):
culturally.
Housing prices in the areadoubled, 300 students became 800
with a 200-person waiting list.
That was called Leader in Me,what she did, and we now have
that in 8,000 schools, includingabout 100 there in Australia.
But it just shows the power ofgetting this content to young
(12:07):
kids.
But it starts with the adultsin the school, right, they need
to think and model it with theircolleague across the hall and
that culture just goeseverywhere and the kids see that
and then when they learn thehabits and learn how to write a
personal mission statement orhow to resolve a conflict with a
(12:30):
friend, it resonates right andit's powerful and it's compound
interest of the adults doing thesame thing the kids are doing
and so it really impacts schoolsand it's really cool to see,
and so it really impacts schoolsand it's really cool to see
yeah, what a journey, and interms of where, how long ago did
that start?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
When did that journey start?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it started in about 2010, so about 15 years
ago, and today we have about8,000 schools.
Probably another 2,000 or sowill join, but it's spreading
across the world, in 50countries so far, and it's just
when you think about it.
(13:13):
You go to school and you learnhow to read, write, do math, and
now you're learning thesesocial emotional skills.
You're learning how to set andachieve goals, learning how to
manage your own temperament.
You're learning how to manageyour time.
You're learning how to set andachieve goals, learning how to
manage your own temperament.
You're learning how to manageyour time.
You're learning how to resolveconflicts.
You're learning how to you know, lead teams, how to balance
your life, and so theselife-ready skills, career-ready
(13:37):
skills, college-ready skills areimbued into the curriculum.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, and that's why it's resonated so well from one
school and I heard 8,000-plusschools across the globe, which
is showing the connection acrossthe globe Fantastic, yeah, yeah
.
So now, as the president ofFranklin Covey in Education,
(14:03):
what drives your vision forequipping educators and students
with these leadership skills?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yes, well, as we've gone out and done research, the
biggest challenges right now andthese are pretty uniform across
the globe are, you know, one ismental wellness, both with
teachers and with students.
Another one is just keepingyour people the interest in
(14:36):
education, hiring, getting a lotof interest in these positions
to be administrator or teacher,and then keeping people there's
a lot of interest in thesepositions to be an administrator
or a teacher, and then keepingpeople.
There's a lot of turnover COVIDexacerbated that that's a big
one.
And then, I think, justjuggling everything because
there's so many demands.
You've got demands from parents, you've got demands from
(14:58):
government coming down on you,and so trying to manage all
these balls in the air andkeeping your sanity right.
So what drives me is to try to.
I think educators are the bestpeople in the world.
My dad was an educator.
I think, outside of the work wedo in our own homes with our
(15:19):
own children, the most importantwork going on in the world by
far is the work we're doing inschools.
We're nurturing and trainingthe future and trying to help
these kids realize their worthand potential.
So what motivates me is justtrying to help teachers
understand.
You know you're doing great.
Here's some tools to help youout.
(15:42):
Remember why you got intoeducation in the first place.
Don't let all those side thingsbeat you up too much.
You know, yeah, yeah, we'recoming out with a new book this
fall called Teacher Believed inMe and it's the science and
heart of making a difference inthe lives of students and it's
basically how to buildrelationships with students and
(16:04):
it's all research-based and inthis book we talk about just all
the different things you can do, um, to build that relationship
and and we're finding that, um,as we've tested this, it so
resonates with educators that golike, yes, that's why, that's
why I got here in the firstplace.
You know, for example, one ofthe deposits you can make into
the emotional bank account of astudent is to know them, know
(16:26):
their names, yeah Right, justsomething that simple.
And starting a class by sayingsomething like good morning
class.
You know of 30.
Why don't we go around to theroom real quick and do a
highlight and a low light of theweek?
Everyone just take, you know,15, 20 seconds.
What was a highlight and lowlight?
(16:47):
Oh, yeah, well, we won thesoccer game, woo, and you know
my, you know my best friendmoved, you know.
And so just something thatsimple is the front end of a
class, the back end of a class,little things you can do to
(17:07):
create connection between youand the students, the students
and each other.
So, anyway, that's that's whatmotivates me, is I, you know, I,
I think I have so muchadmiration for all of you
educators, I have so muchadmiration for all of you
educators.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, and thank you for the work in terms of the
impact and what I'm hearing isyou're constantly listening to
the narrative of educators.
You've got the pulse check onwhat is occurring at the moment
with mental wellness, keepinggood teachers in the profession
as well, knowing what thewhirlwind around them and coming
(17:46):
down on them is, and it'sreally nice to hear in terms of
that sounds exciting.
The title was called TeachersBelieve in Me.
That sounds like almost anexclusive on our podcast today,
but thank you for sharing thatsounds and the tips that you
just said.
Like getting to know people,like having that connection is
(18:10):
so crucial to it's not juststudents aren't just test
results.
They are actual human beingsand what drives them, what's in
their world, caring about them,is a key message in
relationships.
Having that relationshipsbefore delivering content is so
(18:30):
crucial.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
So key.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, if we switch gears now to the seven habits,
which is so iconic and foreducational leaders, managing
the complexities that we'vetalked about and change, which
habits do you think are the mosttransformative?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Sure, well, I mean, the most important habit of the
seven is the one you're havingthe most difficult time living,
right, yeah, but I'll just startwith one.
So Habit 7 is called Sharpenthe Saw.
It's the idea we should neverbe too busy driving to take time
(19:09):
to get gas, and we should neverbe too busy living to take time
to sharpen ourselves mentally,emotionally, physically and
spiritually.
And by spiritually I mean whatdrives you, your motivation
right, your inspiration.
And I start with this one foreducators because there's so
(19:29):
much burnout.
And burnout happens because youhave a hard job and you're
juggling lots of stakeholdersand needs, a lot of people, and
you're struggling, a lot of kidsthat are struggling, right, and
you're having to manage all ofthat, and so you tend to give a
lot, and so you burn yourselfout and you get worn out and
(19:51):
that's why so many are leavingthe profession.
But I just encourage you thatit's okay to take time to
sharpen your saw.
In fact you've got to do it,and if you don't do it you will
burn out and you need to findyour own routines for managing
that.
So you know, for the body it'sgood nutrition, stress
(20:13):
management, exercise, whateveryou need, you know good rest.
I mean increasingly that theresearch on sleep is so.
I used to not sleep at alluntil I read the book why we
sleep and realized I was livingdrunk effectively right, really
like you weren't a very.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
You had a small amount of sleep in your I
wouldn't get enough sleep and Ithought it was kind of a macho
thing.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I get by on, I can get by in five hours, yeah, yeah
, right.
And then I realized that I wasuh, just not my, I didn't have
my full strength, right, and sothat's important, right, and and
then you're mentally, what areyou doing to grow, develop, get
(20:58):
better at your profession?
Attending conferences, reading,reading, studying, you know,
emotionally, connecting with thepeople that you know?
The heart is aboutrelationships and doing things
to keep those relationships, themost important ones, strong in
your life.
Then, spiritually, what drivesyou, what motivates you?
(21:18):
And it can be literature, couldbe practicing a religion, it
could be meditation, it could bewalk in, walking in nature, um,
you know, there's lots ofdifferent ways people inspire
themselves goal setting, um, andso on, but, uh, most people, I
mean entropy takes over if youdon't have a plan for doing this
(21:41):
.
I love this story aboutLin-Manuel Miranda.
He's the one that wroteAlexander Hamilton, the new
musical.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Has been a smash hit, came out about five years ago,
has won every award, isconsidered the greatest musical
of all time.
And he talks about how foryears he had been working on
other plays and never took abreak and was exhausted and he
said, finally, I realized I needa vacation with my family and I
needed a long vacation.
And so he went on vacation toPuerto Rico, the Island of
Puerto Rico in the Gulf ofMexico, you know, and while he
(22:30):
was in the airport he picked upa book called Alexander Hamilton
.
It's about the found one of thefounding fathers of America.
And he, he read this book and,um, he went on to say he, you
know, it gave him the idea towrite this play.
So after his vacation he cameback and this was his new work
(22:52):
and it's made him famous.
And, um, it's been just anincredible work.
And but he said these words, hesaid it's no surprise, the best
idea I've ever had, the bestidea I'll probably ever had,
have came to me on vacation.
And then, um, you know I'vedone a lot of research on some
(23:14):
real great producers and howthey all had their own routines
of taking time off and relaxingand sharpening their saws so
they could get inspiration andideas and could be at their best
.
And so the idea is we do ourbest work Um, when we are
(23:35):
relaxed and rested properly andemotionally stable.
And so I give you permission,told that, to take time to
sharpen your saw, because thereturn on the time you spend
there is tenfold one hour spentsharpening the saw can mean 10
(23:55):
hours of increased productivitythroughout the week yeah, and
and the fact that you it'sbacked with evidence and
research as well, sean, and whata powerful story in terms of,
of, of.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Uh, I'll get the name , is it lynn man?
Manuel did I get.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, his name is lynn manuel miranda.
Yeah, alexander Hamilton.
The place called Hamilton yeah,I'm sure it's in some of your
big cities there.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
But the story behind that is sointriguing in terms of and the
message is just don't burnyourself out, colleagues.
Just take the time to lookafter yourself and go and have
that vacation and come backrefreshed and ready with energy.
(24:47):
Otherwise you're going to belike a hamster on a wheel, so to
speak, burning yourself out.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and you need vacation time.
You also need time every day todo.
You know, I call it the dailyprivate victory.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Every day you have your own little routine.
You know for you know for me Iget up early and I go and
exercise and I read and I planmy day.
It takes one hour and it's myfoundation for everything else.
Right, I win that victory, myfoundation for everything else.
(25:22):
Right, I win that victory overself, in a sense.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And then it prepares me for you know all the battles
of the day.
And if you some things comethrough, if you miss that,
hypothetically, how do you feelafter that?
Do you feel a bit disappointedin?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
yourself if you don't get to that, or have you made
that a disciplined approach inyour world?
Well, I've made it adisciplined approach, but I
don't get to it every day andsometimes things interrupt.
But if I can get to it 80% ofthe time right, then over a long
period of time it's working.
And so, like today, I got upand I had podcasts starting
really early this morning and Ididn't have time to sharpen my
(26:08):
saw this morning, but tomorrowI'll spend a little bit more
time, yeah yeah, yeah, that's agood message as well to say you
know it's okay, but just keepdoing consistently repeating,
consistently repeating.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
and that's what the journey of I've read and seen
through your work with, withyour, with your background, in
writing.
That's what you did every day.
You took the time to put thathour in and you just gradually
did that to get to the, the, theseven habits for highly
successful teenagers.
It wasn't a quick fix.
(26:43):
It was a long-term journey foryou to ensure that that work was
obviously highly effective.
Yeah, and practice, in terms ofif we go to shifting to how
school leaders, how could schoolleaders embed the seven habits
into the culture of theirschools to create long-term
impact?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
sure?
Well, I think that, um, lookingat the example of ab combs that
I shared earlier, yeah, um, itneeds to be ubiquitous, meaning
everywhere all the time, andit's got to start with you.
It's an inside out approach.
The best single thing you cando is just, you know, read the
book yourself.
And again, the book was writtenby my father, stephen Covey.
(27:28):
It was his life's work, basedon, you know, 200 years.
He basically looked at 200years of research and
synthesized these into thesehabits, right?
And so I think, getting thatbook and getting it inside of
(27:48):
you yourself, and just startingas a model, doing your best to
being proactive yourself, right,and having an end in mind, you
might want to then say, afteryou've kind of done it yourself,
I do a book, study honestly andhave everyone read the book,
discuss it, what's working foryou, what doesn't work?
(28:10):
And then maybe the next stepwould be write a mission
statement as a school.
You might have one, you mightnot, but sometimes people have
them but they don't really meananything because it didn't come
from the current team.
Right, I would rewrite it if,and just say what's the purpose
of our school, what are wetrying to accomplish?
Let's not just put a platitudeon the wall, but let's do
(28:33):
something that really is aboutwho we are right and that can be
a powerful experience, and thenjust start using a common
language.
Common language is how youbuild culture.
You know, hey, we need to thinkwin-win.
You know, third grade teachers,have you listened to the start
(28:55):
first to understand what theupper grades are saying?
You know, you get a commonlanguage going and it starts
with the adults in the schooland it can be really powerful if
it's done by everybody.
Of course you're going to havea few teachers that don't, I
don't want to do this, this isstupid, and then some that don't
(29:16):
want to change.
But we've learned that if youdon't need everyone, you need a
critical mass, and it startswith the principal.
The principal gets on boardevery everyone eventually does
and the culture takes over andit just it becomes a behavior
standard and a common language,and then you can bring it to the
(29:38):
students right at that pointand you just integrate it into
lessons.
This is what AB CombsElementary, the school I told
you about earlier did.
They just started integratingit into lessons.
We're teaching poetry, robertFrost poetry.
Let's talk about his poem.
(29:58):
Which habits do you see, wererepresented in his poem.
Two roads diverged in the woodand I took the road less
traveled by.
I saw this the other day inschool and these kids were
saying, well, I think itrepresents habit too, because
they had to begin with the endin mind of which road to take.
And other kids said, well, Ithink it's habit one, because
they had to choose right andit'd be proactive.
(30:20):
And I thought, wow, what a richdiscussion, what a great way to
teach a habit, instead ofsaying, hey, habit two is this
yeah, yeah.
Integrate it into PE physicaleducation, into your English
classes, into your math.
There's just so many ways.
Do it on the playground.
Two kids are fighting.
Hey kids, are you thinkingwin-win.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
And those are just greatexamples, really practical
advice, of how to integrate thatinto the everyday, for teachers
to incorporate it, whether it'sin English or whether it's in
any key learning area on theplayground as well.
In terms of the what makes doyou think Leader and Me so
effective and why do you thinkit resonates so well with
(31:07):
educators and students alike?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yes, I've thought about this a lot.
Why is it in 8,000 schools andgrowing?
Four reasons Number one it'sbased on different paradigms.
Paradigm is, you know, a lensthrough which you see the world.
It's a belief system, right.
And the paradigms of leader inme are everyone can be a leader.
(31:33):
Students, every one of you canbe a leader, right?
Everyone has genius.
That there's gifts in everystudent.
You might be very smartacademically, you're smart, very
smart emotionally, which can'tbe measured, and you're very
smart you know with languagesand you're good at making people
(31:56):
laugh and right.
So everyone has genius.
Change starts with me that if Iwant my school to change, I got
to get along better with myspouse.
I need to get along better withmy colleague across the hall.
And then that we don't controllearning but we empower students
(32:19):
to lead their own learning.
It's a paradigm.
Job is not to give yousomething, it's to empower you
to own your own learning.
And then, finally, the paradigmthat we educate the whole child
, not just the academic child,because the kid can feel if all
they are is a test score, theydon't like how that feels.
(32:40):
No one does right, and we knowthat they're whole people and
they'll do better with theirtest score if they're treated as
a whole person.
So paradigms, that's one reasonit works.
The second reason is ubiquitouseverywhere, all the time.
You can't just do this in oneclassroom and see a big cultural
change.
You can't just do it with theadults, just the kids, just the
(33:01):
principal.
It's got to be everywhere allthe time.
A third is you've got to haveit's the powerful content that
you have of the seven habits isa common framework, right?
That gives you a behaviorstandard.
And then you've got the fourdisciplines of execution, which
(33:24):
is goal setting, achievement.
It teaches you how to go aftersomething as an organization,
right?
So those three things.
And then, finally, it's justthe simple thing of it works.
Because it's based on timelessprinciples.
That's why it's popular.
(33:46):
I was just in Pakistan a fewweeks ago and there's 500
schools, huge schools inPakistan that love this or
eating it up.
Because it's based onprinciples of initiative and
hard work and, um, you know,balance and vision and
(34:14):
prioritization, right?
These things that everyone,every society, agrees with.
If you follow the principle ofmutual benefit, it'll succeed,
whether it's in Japan or Jakartaor New South Wales, right, yeah
, it's going to work everywhere.
So that's why LeaderMeresonates and why it sticks is
those four reasons.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, yeah, terrific In terms of you've mentioned
then, you've been to Pakistanand what an experience that
would have been.
You travel all around the globe.
Is there any specific examplesor school that you've seen?
Wow, this has had literally me,has had a real measurable
impact.
Sure, I'm sure you've gotplenty yeah, I've got.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I've got plenty.
Um, I'll just, uh, talk aboutone I went to about two weeks
ago.
It was in downtown Los Angeleskind of a really sketchy area.
Yeah, you're a little bitnervous to even drive there and
it's a really sketchyneighborhood and A lot of crime
(35:20):
in the area.
And you walk into this school.
It's an elementary school andit's an oasis.
I mean it was incredible Walkedinto this school, it locked the
gates, oh, nice Welcome you getthat idea when you get inside
it's just an oasis.
These kids are all educated inthe seven habits, and so are the
(35:44):
adults.
They speak that language.
They have WIGs four disciplinesof execution wildly important
goals.
And it's to increase their youknow their scores on their
reading tests and the wholeschool is focused on it.
And every kid has a goalaligned to that goal right.
(36:08):
And then every kid has aleadership role and
responsibility.
Every kid, this person's incharge of playground.
This person's in charge ofhelping others.
A really good writer helpsother write essays.
You know, this person is incharge of cleaning up in the
lunchroom every day.
And all these roles some ofthem are rotated and some of
(36:31):
them they apply for.
The kids do a ton of publicspeaking.
They're really preparing themfor the workforce.
Tons of public speaking, goalsetting.
And the culture of the schoolis remarkable and the initiative
of the kids was off the charts.
So we went to an assembly.
The whole thing was led by kids.
(36:51):
They were the speakers, theyran the AV.
That's one of the things weteach in Leader in Me is turn
the school over to the kids,watch what they can do.
You'll be surprised at how wellthey can do things.
You can be a guide to the side,but you don't have to be
leading it.
Let the kids do it, but thatwas in this and their scores are
(37:12):
some of the highest inCalifornia their math and
reading scores, their attendance, their you know path to high
school and college graduationsome of the highest in a school
that you has no right doing thatin in terms of people
externally looking in would go,they'd say they they'd have the
(37:33):
unconscious bias, so to speak,in and have that thought process
about what those students wouldbe capable of.
Based on that, and then exactly,Just because they come from a
lot of poverty in a real tougharea, not really strong family
backgrounds, and these kids areoverachieving from where they
(37:55):
are supposed to be, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But I could tell you you know hundreds of stories
like that.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, that's amazing because, in terms of just
bringing it to the context ofour main audience in New South
Wales, just to give you thecontext is 1,800 primary schools
that the New South WalesPrimary Principals Association
represents and they're scatteredfrom Sydney metro areas across
(38:26):
a vast landscape of New SouthWales, from rural to remote.
I guess in terms of thelisteners thinking and saying,
look, this sounds terrific, howwould I start this process and
what's the best advice there?
Sean Sure.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, we have.
So in the 8,000 schools youknow, we've got inner city
schools like the one I just toldyou about.
We also have schools in remoteareas, you know in Kentucky,
where the schools are.
Some of them have 10 studentsand some have 50 and some have
100.
And they're really spread outright.
But this process works reallywell in those schools as well.
(39:12):
And I think the best place tostart is, honestly, again, start
with yourself.
And if you're interested indoing Leader in Me, we run
Leader in Me out of Australiaand we have a team there and
it's not very expensive allthings considered.
And if you're interested, youcan just go to the web and
(39:35):
Google us and find out.
We can come in and help you getstarted.
If you're not up for that rightnow, you can start just by
doing what I talked about before, which is read the book, start
implementing some of thepractices, read the Seven Habits
book and.
But you know we'd, of course,love to work with you if you
(39:58):
have that interest.
But you know it starts with you.
Got to believe, got to rememberwhy you're doing this in the
first place and the paradigmsare foundational, what I shared
before when we went to AB Combs,the school that was failing and
became number one in America.
The first thing I noticed whenI came home.
(40:21):
I said to my wife we're goingto move to that city because we
need our kids to go there.
And she goes.
What was different?
And I thought for a moment.
I said their teachers believethat every child was a genius.
I didn't get it.
I just thought, wow, why arethey're so affirming in the way
(40:42):
they're treating these kids?
And every kid is given a chanceto shine, because sometimes we
just give the chance to shine tothe person that's really good
at writing the essay or on thesports field.
There are a hundred talents,right, and they had a way of
just bringing them out.
(41:02):
And they had a way of justbringing them out.
And so I just think it juststarts with honestly saying I
believe that every child herecan be a leader.
It doesn't mean you're thestudent body president, because
we always think about you, know,the class leader, the president
, but no, you can lead your ownlife.
You can be a leader of othersjust by doing the right thing
(41:23):
when no one is watching, andeveryone can lead in different
ways, right?
So that paradigm isfoundational to everything else
and it starts there.
And the reality is mostteachers feel that way.
That's why they went intoteaching is they see kids that
aren't behaving properly?
Their software is out of syncwith their hardware.
(41:45):
Their hardware is greatness andtheir software is messed up
right now because they'redepressed or because they've had
some trauma right and teacherswant to say no, I'm going to
help you replace your softwareto remember who you are and give
(42:06):
you some behavior standards soyou can become who you should be
and are capable of becoming.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's essentially what research is showing.
The teenagers are glued to thealgorithms bringing them back
into the social media and ifthey type in depression or
something, it just it compoundsin that space.
So it's a whirlwind around them.
And then what I've heard isjust have an understanding of
(42:34):
sense of self through sevenhabits, through knowing yourself
and what you stand for, whatyour values are.
It's similar to educators aswell.
The whirlwind around them willkeep on whirling, but if you
don't have the sense of self,then you won't be able to have a
(42:54):
sense of purpose andachievement.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yes, yeah, in the Seven Habits book you know the
seven habits are are beproactive, begin with the end in
mind, put first things first.
Those are the first threehabits.
It's about you and it's it'skind of the idea of getting your
own act together first.
Habits four, five and six areabout others.
(43:18):
Think, win, win, seek first tounderstand, then to be
understood, synerize.
It's about victory with people.
And then habit seven is sharpenthe saw, which kind of keeps
the first six alive.
But there's a sequence to these.
This isn't just seven things,it's a sequence.
Private victories first threehabits always come before public
(43:38):
victories.
And so often in life we'retrying to work on a relationship
problem Habit five.
Maybe we're trying to work on arelationship problem habit five
.
Maybe we're not seeking for usto understand when the real
challenge is we haven't gotourselves right first.
We need to go back and win aprivate victory.
We need to get our intent right.
You know what's my end in mind.
(43:59):
What am I trying to get donehere?
What am I trying to get donehere?
And if you will start withyourself, nine out of ten times
relationship problems are youand you've got to kind of fix
yourself first.
So often people take sevenhabits oh, my boss needs this,
(44:19):
my spouse needs this, my partnerneeds this, spouse needs this
right, my partner needs this.
When, um, typically mostproblems start with start with
ourselves.
I, I remember one time my son, Iplayed, uh, you know, american
college football and I wanted tomake the pros, but then I blew
(44:39):
my, I hurt my knee.
I got married and my first, myfirst child, you know, was a,
was a boy, and so I thought I'mgoing to have him achieve all my
dreams for me, and I trainedhim to be a really good football
player.
He was outstanding.
And then, when he was about 15,he came to me and told me he
didn't want to play anymore.
(44:59):
And I just fell apartemotionally because I'd spent 15
years getting him ready right,it was so good, and I I was
upset with him, I was making himfeel guilty, and finally I
realized I wasn't listening atall, and so I had to check
myself.
I had to kind of win a privatevictory and say what am I trying
to do, raise a quarterback orraise a son?
(45:20):
And I thought no, I'm trying todown deep, I'm trying to raise
a son.
Do I really thought, no, I'mtrying to down deep.
I'm trying to raise a son.
Do I really care if he's agreat quarterback?
No, it'd be fun, but not really.
And so, for the first time, Iwas able to listen to him,
because I won a private victory,and he told me about how, how
he felt small and how he was 50pounds lighter than everybody
(45:42):
else and how he, how beat up hegot the year before and that's
why he didn't want to play.
And, and I understood him forthe first time.
Right, that was like a publicvictory with him.
I, we, we connected.
I understood him, he understoodme.
But I had to go back to myselffirst.
Right, it took me like twoweeks to have it One.
(46:04):
Two weeks to have it one.
Be proactive, use my conscience, self-awareness to realize I
was trying to put my agenda intohis life.
And then what's my end in mind?
Began with the end of mind haveit to raise a son, not a
quarterback.
Got myself right, we're able tofix this relationship problem.
Um, it didn't matter if heplayed football or not anymore,
(46:25):
right, I just we had this goodrelationship.
So my point is start withyourself.
Most challenges are things youneed to get right yourself, and
the seven habits just give you anice.
It's a nice synthesizedframework.
Stephen Covey did for the sevenhabits with the seven habits.
Stephen Covey did for the sevenhabits with the seven habits
(46:52):
what Steve Jobs and Bill Gatesdid for the graphical user
interface they took somethingvery complicated computers and
made it accessible to the masses.
The seven habits it's the samething.
It takes something that's kindof complicated, self-improvement
, makes it accessible to themasses, makes it really simple.
A sequenced, research-basedapproach that stands the test of
time.
That basically says hey, if youwant to be effective, happy,
(47:16):
successful, achieve your fullpotential, start with you.
Private victory, be proactive,don't be a victim, take charge,
take initiative.
You're in the driver's seat ofyour life, you're not a
passenger.
And then begin with the end inmind.
What is your mission statement?
What are your goals?
What is your blueprint forsuccess in your life?
(47:38):
Then, put first things first.
Make sure the things thatmatter most get the proper time
and attention they need.
Prioritize, say no to thethings that are less important.
I'm talking too much here, drew, but that's the idea.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
And I could just keep listening.
And so many takeaways there,sean, in terms of real key
messages for our listeners aswell.
It's been an absolute privilegefor you to be with us today.
Your insights into theleadership education they're so
inspiring and they're practicalfor our audience as well as
(48:13):
school leaders, not just in NewSouth Wales, Australia, but
beyond all of our educatorslistening can resonate with that
.
Congratulations on the mission,the work of the leader in me,
and thank you for the work thatyou're continuing to lead and
looking forward to more in termsof the next, what's coming next
(48:36):
and I heard at the startteachers believe in me, really
excited to be hearing when thatcomes out soon.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great, yeah, leave in me really
excited to be hearing when thatcomes out soon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, great, yeah,I, uh, I look forward to coming
to australia again and seeingthe leader of me schools, and my
son, as I shared before, is, uh, he loves reptiles and you have
a lot of them there and so, um,he's always wanted to go to
(49:04):
australia, so so I look forwardto a visit soon.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
And that brings us to the end of today's episode with
Sean Covey.
All of the links and referenceswe discussed today can be found
in our show notes, so make sureto check those out.
If you enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe to our
podcast and please feel free toshare this with other
educational leaders in yournetwork who would find this
(49:29):
conversation really valuable.
A huge thanks again to SeanCovey and the Franklin Covey
team for making this podcastpossible.
Remember, franklin Covey buildsexceptional leaders, teams and
cultures that achieve realresults, and that's why we, the
New South Wales PrimaryPrincipals Association, are
proud to partner withFranklinCovey Education to
(49:51):
support you on your journeytowards greatness in education.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
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