November 24, 2023 • 13 mins
Louise Green, is an acclaimed solution-focused coach, Middle Leadership Imperative & Covey facilitator, and recipient of the prestigious NSW Primary Principals Association Life Membership award. Her journey through the educational landscape is nothing short of inspiring – but it's her insights into the qualities essential for leadership that truly capture the essence of her wisdom. We tap into those insights and take you through the development of the Middle Leadership Imperative, a course meticulously designed under the expertise of seasoned principals to resonate with today's assistant principals and middle leaders.
The second half of our conversation digs deeper into Louise's role as a mentor and the profound influence she's had in her roles across NSW Public Schools. An unwavering advocate for nurturing leadership skills in young leaders, Louise shares her passion and experiences that have significantly contributed to her mentorship approach. We'll also unravel the structure of the Middle Leadership Imperative course, discussing its evolution to cater to the participants' needs. Get ready to be inspired by Louise's leadership philosophy and learn more about the key course elements that have shaped countless successful leaders.
Links and References:
To view our Professional Learning Offerings, visit:
https://www.nswppa.org.au/professional-learning
To view our latest offerings, visit: https://www.nswppa.org.au/catalogue
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What keeps you inspired, louise, and motivated
to contribute to the field ofeducational leadership?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Working with these young leaders is absolutely
outstanding.
They are so keen to learn.
They are out in an environmentwhere they don't have this
opportunity, and when they'rehere, they take full advantage
of it, and it's fabulous to workwith young people who are just
so enthusiastic about learningto be good leaders.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to today's podcast.
Great to have your companyeveryone.
Well, it's great pleasure thatour special guest today is
Louise Green.
Louise Green has recently beenthe recipient of the NSW Primary
Principles Association LifeMembership a very prestigious
award.
(00:48):
Louise consistentlydemonstrates a deep commitment
to supporting colleagues anddeveloping future leaders on
behalf of NSW Public Schoolsthrough the NSW Primary
Principles Association.
Louise is an accreditedsolution focus coach.
She's also accredited as aCovey facilitator through Speed
(01:11):
of Trust, as well as our newoffering Multiplies.
She's also a facilitator of thevery well received Middle
Leadership Imperative and intoday's podcast we unpack that
work that she is facilitatingthrough the NSW Primary
(01:31):
Principles Association.
So let's enjoy Louise Green.
Louise Green, welcome to ourpodcast.
Our aim is to inform ourlisteners about the professional
learning offerings through theNSW Primary Principles
Association.
Louise, can you tell us aboutyour professional learning
(01:54):
journey and what led you towhere you are today and, I guess
, what inspired you to work ineducation?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thanks, drew.
Look, I believe that when I wasa young teacher that I needed
to make sure that what I wasdoing, my practice was, you know
, right on the ball, and Ineeded to make sure I was doing
the right job for kids.
I had an opportunity to relievein an executive position and
found that my impact on kids wasgreater because I had impact on
(02:22):
other leaders and otherteachers and I noticed that that
allowed me to develop my ownleadership skills and to do a
lot of self-reflection.
And as I moved along thatjourney in different contexts, I
believed that in order to havethe maximum impact on students
and to improve student outcomes,I had the best opportunity to
do that as a principal.
(02:42):
So I actively worked at thatthrough coaching and
self-reflection.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah.
So, with your extensiveexperience of Louise in the
various roles across NSW PublicSchool, what motivated you to
support the development of as aprincipal to other principals
and other educational leaders?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I've had some fabulous role models, and one in
particular was a principal whoreally believed in the fact that
, as a principal in NSW, we hadan obligation not just a duty
but an obligation to commit towhat was left behind us and to
leave something behind in ourcareers.
That was significant, and I sawthat as an opportunity to
(03:26):
empower young leaders with theskills and abilities to become
good principals.
And so that lead led me intothat lifelong journey of
leadership and to practice someof the skills I had, and the
more I practiced and rehearsedand read and implemented skills,
(03:46):
the more I realised the impactI was having.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah.
So they really believed in youand they could see the
leadership qualities you had andyou felt that is, you felt
really good about that and theimplementation they were giving
to you and as a moral compass,so to speak, you then could see
that in your role when youbecame a principal.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely Almost like the pay it forward month
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, absolutely so, is it, Louise?
As a mentor and a coach in yourrole.
What are some of the keyqualities and skills you look
for in aspiring leaders?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That ability to be open to learning, that ability
to be open to feedback, but alsohave that ability to
self-reflect and set your ownjourney.
So, with the support of myselfand other colleagues, how do you
do that?
And you look for people who areopen to that learning, people
who are more than happy, youngleaders who have come in and say
(04:43):
they're like sponges.
How do I do this?
What do I do?
What can you teach me aboutthat?
And that led me into thatdesigning programs around
aspiring leaders and middleleadership, because my belief
about middle leadership is thatthe AP role and the middle
leader role is the mostchallenging in the school.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
With the most challenging, would you say, in
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, pushed and pulled.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
All the time?
Yeah, and you are.
We'll go to that.
You are a facilitator for themiddle leadership imperative.
What are some of the keyelements that empowers our, that
the course offers in empoweringour middle leaders?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, number one, I think we really reflect on good
quality research.
We open their eyes, in somecases, to researchers who have
can offer them that learning.
We also were very strategic indeveloping streams so we kept a
theme.
So we've got three streams thatrun through those four days,
(05:43):
and one's about middle leadingitself and the difference
between leading and managing andhow you manage that in your
role.
The middle stream is aboutcollaborative professionalism,
about trust, all those thingsstrategies that you need to have
as a middle leader andunderstand what they really mean
(06:04):
.
And then in the afternoon,those last sessions, we focus on
putting some of those ideasinto action and giving them
practice at doing it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, so currently in that process as a table
facilitator with thearchitecture and the design
around the program.
What led it to being?
Was there a thinking around itbeing a four day program?
Can you just give us somebackground to the thinking
around what that, thedevelopment of the course and
(06:34):
how it came to the four days?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
We didn't believe that under that we could offer
that high quality professionallearning unless we did that.
And it was developed by twohighly experienced principals,
corinna Robertson and LarissaMarigar, and they started to
develop it, and then otherprincipals myself, margaret
(06:57):
Charlton, ryan Shepherd westarted to come in and we all
started to work on it togetherand I think that's such a
strength of this program becausewe're offering schools things
that have been developed bypublic school principals.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Thank, you Fit for purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And is the course over a period of?
Has it changed and adapted tothe current trends and needs
that assistant principals andour middle leaders need?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What we've done with the program is it's almost like
building the plane as you fly.
We've started off with a coreset of learning and then, as we
went along in looking at thefeedback and looking how people
interacted, we've sort ofchanged it slightly, but it's
always been around how we couldimpact on the people who are in
(07:47):
the room and how they respondedto it.
We've got to a point now wherewe think I think we reference up
to eight or nine researchersduring the program, which is
great, they can walk away withpeople they can read more about
and we also decided that weneeded to have really good
activities that they couldactually engage in to practice
what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so it's a really practical course
Absolutely To support ourcurrent middle leaders and
aspiring.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, probably, yeah, maybe if they're in relieving
capacities, but not more thanthat.
I would say yeah, but what Iwould say is that we've designed
it so that it really has a longimpact and people can take away
things, but they don't have to.
So you don't have to go back toschool in that busy role you
are in middle leadership and doanything other than reflect.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So no action research project.
You have to do some casestudies, analysis and all of
those things no.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, sli offers that wonderful opportunity, and they
have a quality program too thatis different to ours.
So we believed as principalsthat middle leaders are just so
busy anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I was going to go there.
In terms of, that is what weare asked through the
association.
There's some fantastic workthat the SLI are offering.
The question is, what's thedifference with I'm not sure if
you can answer this, louise.
What is the difference with themiddle leadership imperative,
to say, other middle leadershipcourses that are offered through
(09:22):
the school leadership institute?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Look, sli offers fabulous learning it really does
and some of their onlineresources are outstanding and I
would highly recommend everybodyto look at those and use them
as reference.
Their middle leadership programis very different to ours in
that there's some actionresearch in it.
It's quite different, and theyhave guest speakers and that
(09:48):
sort of thing.
We don't do that.
Ours is quite differentspecifically because we knew
that we needed to get peopleactually engaged in the process
without any additional onus onthem.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I really enjoy the face-to-face component of this
as well and, as a facilitator,you can see the reactions and in
my role, I see and you do aswell the evaluations are really
fantastic in terms of, and soauthentic with, the feedback.
So it must be a great thrill tosee that feedback that you, as
(10:25):
a facilitator, as well as otherfacilitators, are doing when
getting that feedback and saying, yes, this is actually hitting
the mark here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, it's fantastic and it sort of reinforces that
the work we've done has beenworthwhile.
I think that people know whenthey leave those four days is
that the people who have beenpresenting to them are dead set,
have been principals, have beenmiddle leaders.
We can talk from the ground upand we share our funny little
stories and some of ourexperiences, and that's
(10:55):
important.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Absolutely.
It comes from a place ofauthenticity, which is it really
resonates with the participantswe're going to move Louise to.
There's an avalanche ofprofessional learning for
leaders at the moment.
There's so many opportunitiesout there.
How is what's the differencewith the middle leadership
imperative different to othercourses and what are the key
(11:18):
takeaways for participants?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They're very different in that, like I said,
it's not been designed byprofessional organisations.
It hasn't been designed by theSLI, who are in some ways
constrained by the departmentexpectations of their work.
It's been designed byprincipals, for principals and
middle leaders, and that you cantell when you interact in the
group.
That is very different.
(11:42):
Plus, we really follow the ideathat you need to be engaged in
quality research.
So we've done a lot of thatwork, particularly Corinna and
Larissa, who've done a lot ofwork on that research.
We know the good quality that'sthere and we can expose our
middle leaders to that.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, it's coming from what I've seen.
Is it coming from the researchand evidence indicates and shows
, which you can't or you canchallenge, but it comes from
that place.
It's been proven in othersectors and it's been proven
throughout the through theresearch, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, as you'll see it over the four days, no matter
what researcher we use, thosesame things apply.
So it's really confirming forpeople that when we talk about
trust, all the researchers talkabout trust.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It has been a common theme.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Getting trust right and making sure you keep trust
within your team seems to be acommon theme that comes through
so moving.
You are a facilitator in otheraspects, including speed of
trust.
After retiring as a principal,you continue to be involved in
mentoring, facilitating anddelivering courses such as speed
(13:00):
of trust.
What keeps you inspired, louise, and motivated to contribute to
the field of educationalleadership?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Working with these young leaders is absolutely
outstanding.
They are so keen to learn.
They are out in an environmentwhere they don't have this
opportunity, and when they'rehere, they take full advantage
of it, and it's fabulous to workwith young people who are just
so enthusiastic about learningto be good leaders that it gives
(13:28):
us confidence that we'releaving behind when we finally
finish a system that has goodquality leaders within it.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, it goes back to that paying forward that you
mentioned about you having sucha fantastic role model and
leader and paying that forwardto others.
Louise Green, everyone, thankyou for your time, Thank you.
What keeps you inspired, louise, and motivated
to contribute to the field ofeducational leadership?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Working with these young leaders is absolutely
outstanding.
They are so keen to learn.
They are out in an environmentwhere they don't have this
opportunity, and when they'rehere, they take full advantage
of it, and it's fabulous to workwith young people who are just
so enthusiastic about learningto be good leaders.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to today's podcast.
Great to have your companyeveryone.
Well, it's great pleasure thatour special guest today is
Louise Green.
Louise Green has recently beenthe recipient of the NSW Primary
Principles Association LifeMembership a very prestigious
award.
(00:48):
Louise consistentlydemonstrates a deep commitment
to supporting colleagues anddeveloping future leaders on
behalf of NSW Public Schoolsthrough the NSW Primary
Principles Association.
Louise is an accreditedsolution focus coach.
She's also accredited as aCovey facilitator through Speed
(01:11):
of Trust, as well as our newoffering Multiplies.
She's also a facilitator of thevery well received Middle
Leadership Imperative and intoday's podcast we unpack that
work that she is facilitatingthrough the NSW Primary
(01:31):
Principles Association.
So let's enjoy Louise Green.
Louise Green, welcome to ourpodcast.
Our aim is to inform ourlisteners about the professional
learning offerings through theNSW Primary Principles
Association.
Louise, can you tell us aboutyour professional learning
(01:54):
journey and what led you towhere you are today and, I guess
, what inspired you to work ineducation?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thanks, drew.
Look, I believe that when I wasa young teacher that I needed
to make sure that what I wasdoing, my practice was, you know
, right on the ball, and Ineeded to make sure I was doing
the right job for kids.
I had an opportunity to relievein an executive position and
found that my impact on kids wasgreater because I had impact on
(02:22):
other leaders and otherteachers and I noticed that that
allowed me to develop my ownleadership skills and to do a
lot of self-reflection.
And as I moved along thatjourney in different contexts, I
believed that in order to havethe maximum impact on students
and to improve student outcomes,I had the best opportunity to
do that as a principal.
(02:42):
So I actively worked at thatthrough coaching and
self-reflection.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah.
So, with your extensiveexperience of Louise in the
various roles across NSW PublicSchool, what motivated you to
support the development of as aprincipal to other principals
and other educational leaders?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I've had some fabulous role models, and one in
particular was a principal whoreally believed in the fact that
, as a principal in NSW, we hadan obligation not just a duty
but an obligation to commit towhat was left behind us and to
leave something behind in ourcareers.
That was significant, and I sawthat as an opportunity to
(03:26):
empower young leaders with theskills and abilities to become
good principals.
And so that lead led me intothat lifelong journey of
leadership and to practice someof the skills I had, and the
more I practiced and rehearsedand read and implemented skills,
(03:46):
the more I realised the impactI was having.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah.
So they really believed in youand they could see the
leadership qualities you had andyou felt that is, you felt
really good about that and theimplementation they were giving
to you and as a moral compass,so to speak, you then could see
that in your role when youbecame a principal.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Absolutely Almost like the pay it forward month
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, absolutely so, is it, Louise?
As a mentor and a coach in yourrole.
What are some of the keyqualities and skills you look
for in aspiring leaders?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
That ability to be open to learning, that ability
to be open to feedback, but alsohave that ability to
self-reflect and set your ownjourney.
So, with the support of myselfand other colleagues, how do you
do that?
And you look for people who areopen to that learning, people
who are more than happy, youngleaders who have come in and say
(04:43):
they're like sponges.
How do I do this?
What do I do?
What can you teach me aboutthat?
And that led me into thatdesigning programs around
aspiring leaders and middleleadership, because my belief
about middle leadership is thatthe AP role and the middle
leader role is the mostchallenging in the school.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
With the most challenging, would you say, in
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, pushed and pulled.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
All the time?
Yeah, and you are.
We'll go to that.
You are a facilitator for themiddle leadership imperative.
What are some of the keyelements that empowers our, that
the course offers in empoweringour middle leaders?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, number one, I think we really reflect on good
quality research.
We open their eyes, in somecases, to researchers who have
can offer them that learning.
We also were very strategic indeveloping streams so we kept a
theme.
So we've got three streams thatrun through those four days,
(05:43):
and one's about middle leadingitself and the difference
between leading and managing andhow you manage that in your
role.
The middle stream is aboutcollaborative professionalism,
about trust, all those thingsstrategies that you need to have
as a middle leader andunderstand what they really mean
(06:04):
.
And then in the afternoon,those last sessions, we focus on
putting some of those ideasinto action and giving them
practice at doing it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, so currently in that process as a table
facilitator with thearchitecture and the design
around the program.
What led it to being?
Was there a thinking around itbeing a four day program?
Can you just give us somebackground to the thinking
around what that, thedevelopment of the course and
(06:34):
how it came to the four days?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
We didn't believe that under that we could offer
that high quality professionallearning unless we did that.
And it was developed by twohighly experienced principals,
corinna Robertson and LarissaMarigar, and they started to
develop it, and then otherprincipals myself, margaret
(06:57):
Charlton, ryan Shepherd westarted to come in and we all
started to work on it togetherand I think that's such a
strength of this program becausewe're offering schools things
that have been developed bypublic school principals.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Thank, you Fit for purpose.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And is the course over a period of?
Has it changed and adapted tothe current trends and needs
that assistant principals andour middle leaders need?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What we've done with the program is it's almost like
building the plane as you fly.
We've started off with a coreset of learning and then, as we
went along in looking at thefeedback and looking how people
interacted, we've sort ofchanged it slightly, but it's
always been around how we couldimpact on the people who are in
(07:47):
the room and how they respondedto it.
We've got to a point now wherewe think I think we reference up
to eight or nine researchersduring the program, which is
great, they can walk away withpeople they can read more about
and we also decided that weneeded to have really good
activities that they couldactually engage in to practice
what they were doing.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, so it's a really practical course
Absolutely To support ourcurrent middle leaders and
aspiring.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, probably, yeah, maybe if they're in relieving
capacities, but not more thanthat.
I would say yeah, but what Iwould say is that we've designed
it so that it really has a longimpact and people can take away
things, but they don't have to.
So you don't have to go back toschool in that busy role you
are in middle leadership and doanything other than reflect.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So no action research project.
You have to do some casestudies, analysis and all of
those things no.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, sli offers that wonderful opportunity, and they
have a quality program too thatis different to ours.
So we believed as principalsthat middle leaders are just so
busy anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I was going to go there.
In terms of, that is what weare asked through the
association.
There's some fantastic workthat the SLI are offering.
The question is, what's thedifference with I'm not sure if
you can answer this, louise.
What is the difference with themiddle leadership imperative,
to say, other middle leadershipcourses that are offered through
(09:22):
the school leadership institute?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Look, sli offers fabulous learning it really does
and some of their onlineresources are outstanding and I
would highly recommend everybodyto look at those and use them
as reference.
Their middle leadership programis very different to ours in
that there's some actionresearch in it.
It's quite different, and theyhave guest speakers and that
(09:48):
sort of thing.
We don't do that.
Ours is quite differentspecifically because we knew
that we needed to get peopleactually engaged in the process
without any additional onus onthem.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I really enjoy the face-to-face component of this
as well and, as a facilitator,you can see the reactions and in
my role, I see and you do aswell the evaluations are really
fantastic in terms of, and soauthentic with, the feedback.
So it must be a great thrill tosee that feedback that you, as
(10:25):
a facilitator, as well as otherfacilitators, are doing when
getting that feedback and saying, yes, this is actually hitting
the mark here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, it's fantastic and it sort of reinforces that
the work we've done has beenworthwhile.
I think that people know whenthey leave those four days is
that the people who have beenpresenting to them are dead set,
have been principals, have beenmiddle leaders.
We can talk from the ground upand we share our funny little
stories and some of ourexperiences, and that's
(10:55):
important.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Absolutely.
It comes from a place ofauthenticity, which is it really
resonates with the participantswe're going to move Louise to.
There's an avalanche ofprofessional learning for
leaders at the moment.
There's so many opportunitiesout there.
How is what's the differencewith the middle leadership
imperative different to othercourses and what are the key
(11:18):
takeaways for participants?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
They're very different in that, like I said,
it's not been designed byprofessional organisations.
It hasn't been designed by theSLI, who are in some ways
constrained by the departmentexpectations of their work.
It's been designed byprincipals, for principals and
middle leaders, and that you cantell when you interact in the
group.
That is very different.
(11:42):
Plus, we really follow the ideathat you need to be engaged in
quality research.
So we've done a lot of thatwork, particularly Corinna and
Larissa, who've done a lot ofwork on that research.
We know the good quality that'sthere and we can expose our
middle leaders to that.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, it's coming from what I've seen.
Is it coming from the researchand evidence indicates and shows
, which you can't or you canchallenge, but it comes from
that place.
It's been proven in othersectors and it's been proven
throughout the through theresearch, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, as you'll see it over the four days, no matter
what researcher we use, thosesame things apply.
So it's really confirming forpeople that when we talk about
trust, all the researchers talkabout trust.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It has been a common theme.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Getting trust right and making sure you keep trust
within your team seems to be acommon theme that comes through
so moving.
You are a facilitator in otheraspects, including speed of
trust.
After retiring as a principal,you continue to be involved in
mentoring, facilitating anddelivering courses such as speed
(13:00):
of trust.
What keeps you inspired, louise, and motivated to contribute to
the field of educationalleadership?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Working with these young leaders is absolutely
outstanding.
They are so keen to learn.
They are out in an environmentwhere they don't have this
opportunity, and when they'rehere, they take full advantage
of it, and it's fabulous to workwith young people who are just
so enthusiastic about learningto be good leaders that it gives
(13:28):
us confidence that we'releaving behind when we finally
finish a system that has goodquality leaders within it.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, it goes back to that paying forward that you
mentioned about you having sucha fantastic role model and
leader and paying that forwardto others.
Louise Green, everyone, thankyou for your time, Thank you.
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