February 21, 2025 • 31 mins
Step into the world of strategic growth and propel your painting business into a prosperous future! Join Daniel Honan, CPA and Richard Dunton, EA as we promise to unlock the secrets of transforming aspirations into attainable realities through the art of SMART goal setting. Explore how visionaries like Jeff Bezos turned mere wishes into global empires, and learn to craft a roadmap that guides you from today’s dreams to tomorrow’s triumphs. We'll discuss how to harness the power of SMART criteria—specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and timely—to align your annual targets with your decade-spanning ambitions, even during the slower seasons.
Discover effective strategies to not only set, but also implement, your goals with precision and confidence. From increasing lead generation and improving closing rates to enhancing customer value with creative presentation tactics, we cover it all. We'll discuss the art of boosting profits by targeting high-paying jobs and crafting compelling offers that empower customers to choose premium services. With practical advice on evaluating marketing channels for the greatest ROI and strategically allocating resources, this episode equips you with the insights needed to elevate your business to new heights.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painting Podcast.
My name is Daniel Honan, I'm aCPA who helps painting business
owners make more money and savebig in tax, and joining me today
is Richard Dunton and we'rediscussing how to set smart
goals for 2025.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, I can't believe we're in 2025 already.
It feels like time just fliesby and here we are.
It's already the end of January.
So if we haven't set our goalsfor 2025 yet, now's a great time
to think about what we want toaccomplish in the new year.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Agreed.
Yeah, it's a great time tothink through things, especially
since a lot of penny businessowners at this point kind of
slow season for most folks, soit's a great time to take a look
at what do you actually want toachieve in the new year, and so
today we're going to dive intosome ways to think about this
(00:56):
and how to set some goals.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, you know, when I try to set goals for myself, I
was actually really surprisedto learn that one of the hardest
things is understanding, like,where I want to be in the next
you know 10 or 15 years.
We can accomplish incrediblethings in the next 12 months and
(01:19):
we can accomplish, likelife-changing you know,
monumental things in the next 10years if we are putting those
steps in place.
So when I think about what Iwant to do in the next 12 months
, I actually start in the futureand I think of, okay, what are
my dreams for the future?
And I try to give myselfpermission to really be
(01:44):
audacious and really think big.
I try not to limit myself,which is hard because we're very
practical people.
We deal in the here and now andthe reality of the situation
and we try not to be overlyoptimistic, but when it comes to
dreaming, we want to do theopposite.
We want to think about, you know, if I could accomplish anything
(02:05):
, what would my life look like10 years from now?
Where would I want to live,like location-wise, what kind of
house would that be?
How many bedrooms would it have?
How many acres of land wouldsurround it?
How much money would be in mybank account in my dream?
(02:26):
What number would give me thatfeeling of security and allow me
to do the things that I want todo when it comes to work?
How many hours per week am Iworking For me personally, I
probably want to work at leastsome hours so that I feel that
satisfaction of accomplishingthings but still have plenty of
time to pursue hobbies and golfand, you know, play with the
(02:51):
kids, and it can even be, youknow, as granular as like what
kind of car do you want to drive?
What kind of vacations do youwant to go on with your family?
I know it sounds a little hokeyand it feels almost like we're
not spending our time wisely,but I think it's worth to spend
five or 10 minutes reallygetting that picture in your
head, so that you know where youwant to go.
(03:14):
You're setting the destination.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I think it's super important.
I've read a lot of biographiesand one of the common themes is
these folks like Jeff Bezos,even Napoleon, sam Walton they
have a very clear picture ofwhat they want to accomplish.
And I think there's a sayingit's belief before action.
(03:38):
You actually have to believe inthese things you want to
accomplish and really be able tovisualize it, in these things
you want to accomplish andreally be able to visualize it.
And it reminds me of Jeff Bezos.
Back in 1994 or 1995 is when hehad the idea for starting Amazon
.
He wanted to start aneverything store on the internet
(03:59):
.
Obviously, when it firststarted it was not the
everything store, it was abookstore online basically.
But he started with books andover many decades he's turned it
into basically everything store.
So now that's why I have tospend my weekends burning or
getting rid of Amazon boxes,because we now purchase
(04:22):
everything from Amazon.
But he started with that ideafrom pretty much the beginning
and it took him a while but heeventually got there.
One of the cool things heactually originally called
Amazon Relentless.
That was one of the originalnames he was wanting to call the
(04:44):
business.
So if you go to relentlesscom,it actually takes you to Amazon,
which I think is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I did not know that.
That is kind of cool.
I bet he he's sitting on apretty valuable URL, like I
think someone would probablyspend Among other things, yeah,
among other things.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, among other things.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Absolutely so.
I know it sounds a little.
We might not be used to doingsomething like this, but having
that end result in mind is superimportant for me, because then
I'm going to start workingbackwards, right?
So, if I want to be in acertain place in 10 years, what
does my income need to look likein five years to get halfway
(05:28):
there?
And then, once I know myfive-year target, I'm going to
look at my three-year targetthat's going to support that,
and then I'm going to look at mynext 12 months.
What do I need to do in thenext year so that I am one-tenth
of the way to where I want togo?
And that's what I'm going touse to set my goals for 2025.
(05:51):
So, when we talk about settinggoals, I think we have to talk
about the difference betweenlike a goal and a wish.
Right?
If I say I want to make moremoney, that is not a goal, that
is a wish.
It is a very nice wish, butwishes do not come true unless
you're in a Disney movie, and sounless you're a Disney princess
(06:13):
.
I think we need to focus ongoals that are specific,
measurable, attainable, relatedand timely.
And you've probably heard theacronym, you know SMART goals,
but that's what separates a goalthat we're actually going to
accomplish with a desire or awish.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's pretty harsh.
You're calling people Disneyprincesses just because they
want to.
Hey, I want to make more money,so you're kind of calling me a
Disney princess, it sounds like,but all right, tough love there
.
I mean make more money, soyou're kind of calling me a
Disney princess, it sounds like,but all right, tough, tough
love there.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean yeah, no, it's cool.
No, I, I didn't.
I didn't say you are a Disneyprincess, if you have a wish.
I said only Disney princesseshave their wishes fulfilled.
Okay, gotcha, Daniel, if youachieve all your dreams without
putting forth effort and settingsmart goals, then I think we
(07:08):
can conclude that you areCinderella.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, yeah, no, this makes complete sense.
Right now doing a lot ofmeetings with clients that we're
working with and the topic ofwhat are your goals for 2025?
And oftentimes they'll throwout like, oh, I want to hit
(07:31):
500,000 in revenue or whatevertheir revenue target is, but a
lot of folks haven't quite putin.
Okay, let's actually break thatdown.
What does that mean in terms ofmarketing spend, hiring, do we
have enough production, enoughof a production team, to produce
that amount?
So kind of breaking down thatgoal more specifically can
(07:55):
really help you with planningand actually achieving that goal
.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah.
So that's the S right, that'sspecific.
The M stands for measurable.
And, daniel, I know you've saidrepeatedly that what you can
measure, you can improve, and soif we don't have some metric or
some way of measuring ourprogress, it will be very, very
difficult to know if we're goingin the right direction.
(08:21):
So our goal needs to bemeasurable.
If our goal is to increaserevenue, that's pretty
straightforward, right, whereyou can see has the number
improved over last year.
So having that specific metricis important.
And then the next one is A forattainable.
(08:44):
We want to set goals that arerealistic.
I also think that they shouldbe a little bit ambitious.
Don't make it too easy, butdon't make it impossible to
obtain either.
Otherwise we'll just getfrustrated when it inevitably
does not happen.
But it's okay to push yourselfa little bit.
Increasing revenue by 30% overlast year is attainable.
(09:08):
Increasing by 3,000%?
That might not be realistic,but who knows, maybe you're that
good.
The R in SMART stands forrelated.
So we want to understand howthis goal relates to us
achieving that dream.
(09:28):
Increasing revenue for the yearis directly related to us
making more money, which isdirectly related to us having
that house, going on thosevacations, reducing our stress.
And then T is for timely.
So our goals need to have atime frame.
(09:48):
In this case it's the next 12months.
An open-ended goal with no duedate kind of starts to become a
wish.
So have a set time that youwant to achieve this by.
I know we mentioned as anexample that increasing top line
revenue by 30%.
(10:10):
That could be a good goal.
Another goal we might set maybeI want to increase my average
customer review.
So right now maybe I'm lookingat like 4.5 out of 5 stars on
Google.
Maybe I want to get it up to4.8 by the end of the year.
Maybe our goal is to reduce ourworking hours so that we're
(10:31):
only working 40 hours a week,which I know for some of our
listeners would feel like avacation compared to the 60, 70
plus that they're working now.
But those are all goals thatwould fit within that SMART
framework.
Once we determine what our goalis, we need to come up with
(10:52):
three to five strategies thatwill support that goal.
So we're breaking it down toanother granular level.
For example, let's go with thegoal of I want to increase top
line revenue by 30%.
All right, what are threestrategies that we can implement
that are going to get us tothat goal.
(11:14):
I wrote down a couple examplesand this is not all inclusive,
but we might look at, say,strategy one I need to increase
the amount of leads that I getby 50 percent.
Totally makes sense.
The more leads you get, themore work you get booked, the
(11:35):
more revenue you earn.
So increasing leads would wouldhelp us attain that goal.
Another strategy might be Iwant to increase my closing rate
by 10 or 15 percent.
This is a different strategythan the first one, because now
(11:56):
we are taking the leads that weget and we're converting a
higher percentage of those intowork booked and that's going to
increase our revenue.
A third strategy might be Iwant to increase my average
price by 10 or 15 percent Againanother pathway.
(12:17):
We are taking the work that wedo get booked and we're
increasing its value and thatone's directly affecting revenue
.
So the examples are increasethe leads, increase the close
rate, increase the average price.
We've got these strategies.
We're not done yet.
(12:37):
Each strategy gets broken downinto action items that we need
to execute.
So, for example, strategy oneincrease the amount of leads.
What do we need to do toincrease our leads by 50%.
Well, we're going to need toincrease our advertising.
That seems pretty obvious, buthow are we going to do that in a
(13:00):
way that we are getting themost bang for our buck?
This might be a time where yousit down with your financial
reports or your financialplanner and you really dig into
what is my customer?
Acquisition cost, acquisitioncost what does it cost me in
(13:25):
advertising to get a customer?
Am I spending enough onacquiring customers?
We talk a lot about your salesand marketing should be about
15% of revenue.
Are we spending enough to getthose leads?
And if we are, where should Ibe directing my advertising
budget, because not allmarketing channels are equal.
You know, to get the most bangfor our buck, I would be sitting
(13:48):
down and looking at ourdifferent marketing channels.
Let's say we had three differentmarketing channels Facebook ads
, angie List, leads and directmailings.
What is our average return oninvestment?
So if we spend $20 on Facebookads, are we getting $100 of new
(14:10):
work?
That would be a one to fiveratio there.
That's pretty good.
How about Angie's list?
Angie's list is getting moreexpensive every year and
sometimes I've heard the leadsthat come from there aren't as
high quality as maybe they usedto be in the past.
Are we still getting a goodreturn For every $20 that we
(14:30):
spend on Angie's List?
Maybe we're only getting $60 inwork booked.
Direct mail is an interestingone because this seems to be
cyclical, right.
There was a time when directmail advertising was very, very
popular, very effective.
Then we enter in the digitalage.
Email comes, people start tokind of ignore the stuff that
(14:54):
shows up in their mailbox andnow we're seeing it go the
opposite way again, where peopleare sick and tired of email and
websites and you know getting aprinted postcard with, you know
, a glossy finish, that thatmeans more than it used to.
So you know what does it meantoday?
What are we?
You know, what kind of returnare we getting on it in 2025?
(15:17):
Once we figure out themarketing channel that's giving
us the best return, then we knowwhere to focus our money.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And I think a lot of folks recently last month or so
that I've been talking to, theyhave a lot of inbound marketing.
They have a lot of inboundmarketing, meaning they get
leads from repeat work likefolks that they've worked with
(15:47):
in the past that want to do workwith them again.
Or they get referrals peopletelling them about their
services and so they're notspending a lot on marketing
right now, but they want to growquickly or faster than they
have been in the past and sothey're looking at more outbound
strategies like Facebook ads ordirect mail or door-to-door,
(16:08):
and sometimes you don't have thecustomer acquisition cost to
look at historically on yourfinancials because you haven't
done it before.
So you might actually have todo some research.
If you're adding a marketingchannel like if, let's say,
you're adding Facebook ads toyour marketing because you've
(16:29):
never done it before you've onlydone repeat work and referral
work but you want to grow faster, so you're going to add in
Facebook ads to get that growthgoing.
That might be something you'llhave to do some research and
right now I think Facebook adleads are costing about $60 to
$80 per lead and then makingsure you understand everything
(16:51):
that goes into nurturingFacebook leads like getting them
set on the calendar as quicklyas possible, and usually
Facebook leads are going to be alittle bit harder to close, so
your close rate might beaffected negatively.
And this is generally true foroutbound.
When you're doing outboundmarketing it's usually harder to
(17:14):
close people because you foundthem instead of them coming out
and finding you, so it's alittle bit more difficult, but
it's necessary for growth.
So sometimes you might not knowyour customer acquisition costs
because you haven't done thistype of marketing before.
So getting smart on thosedifferent channels will really
help you determine how toimplement this strategy and how
(17:38):
much you actually have to putinto increasing your leads.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, I think that's good advice.
You know, the market changesand sometimes it changes slowly
and sometimes it changes, youknow, overnight.
And when that happens we needto change our marketing to reach
, you know, the people we wantit to reach.
So I think it is very importantto keep a close eye on what's
(18:04):
working and what's not, and thenwe can kind of emphasize what's
working, really direct ourefforts towards what's going to
do the most good, because what'sworked in the past may not work
now.
And so I just think of, likeyou know, if our goal is to
increase our leads by 50 percentand we don't pay attention to
(18:25):
what marketing channels are bestand we just dump a bunch of
advertising dollars intosomething that might not be
working, how tragic would thatbe?
Because not only are we notgoing to hit our revenue goal,
our profit's going to be downbecause we wasted a bunch of
money on advertising, and wemight get discouraged and say
you know, hey, that was a stupidgoal that's not obtainable.
(18:46):
Well, the goal itself isprobably a good goal, but maybe
the execution wasn't where itneeded to be.
So keeping an eye on thosethings, I think, is really
important.
So that's one strategy rightincreasing the leads.
Another strategy would be toincrease the close rate.
(19:07):
So what action items do we needto employ for this?
Well, if we're going toincrease our close rate, then we
really need to examine ourcurrent sales process and see is
there any way that we canimprove it?
You know, maybe we've gotten alittle bit complacent and we
don't prepare as well.
I know it's easy to kind offall into that rut.
(19:29):
But even if we're able to justimprove by 10 or 15 percent,
that increase in our close rateis going to help us achieve our
revenue goal.
When we are going through oursales process, are we clearly
showing our value to ourpotential customer?
Are we making the processsmooth and easy and downright
(19:54):
enjoyable for them?
Are we making sure that we arepresenting the proposal on site?
So that might mean that we haveto have a printer in our van.
It might mean that we need toinvest in some technology so
that we can prepare thoseproposals before we leave the
property.
If we are taking theinformation back to our office,
(20:18):
preparing a proposal and thenemailing it to them 12 to 24
hours later that's 12 hours theyhave to call somebody else and
we've lost that initialexcitement.
So being able to present theproposal, talk about the price,
overcome any objections inperson is going to be big.
(20:42):
And speaking of overcomingobjections, have we kind of role
played that?
What are our most commonobjections?
That is going to address theirconcern.
That we can easily rattle offwith confidence so that we're
(21:02):
not leaving them with any reasonto say no to us.
Those are all things that couldimprove our sales process.
The third strategy is toincrease our price, and it was
funny when Daniel and I werepreparing for this podcast we
were kind of like oh, increasedprice, that's easy, right, we
just changed the number on theproposal.
(21:23):
How difficult is that?
And then we startedbrainstorming it a little bit
with action items and werealized that there's a lot more
to it than just charging more.
Right, that's kind of a glibanswer just charge more.
We can charge more, but we haveto increase the value that the
customer is getting.
People don't say no on price.
(21:46):
They say no when they don't seeenough value for the money
being paid.
So how do we increase the valueso that we can charge more?
Well, we could improve our offer.
That means, maybe, a betterpresentation.
So maybe we have been a littlebit lax on our dress code, but
could you know, branded whitesreally help give a more
(22:09):
professional presentation and abetter experience for the
customer.
We might improve our offer withadd-on services that don't cost
us a lot.
So, like color consultation isa big one, it may seem like a
(22:36):
simple thing to us.
Next, you know 8 to 12 years.
Having someone give themsuggestions and guide them is
incredibly valuable and thatdoesn't cost us hardly anything
to do that.
Another way that we canincrease our prices is simply by
(22:56):
seeking out jobs that pay usbetter.
So maybe we turn down partialjobs or we push to get more
rooms in the house so that wecan have a higher average job
cost.
Maybe there's.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
There's.
Oh sorry, Interrupt.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
There's a couple of ways Go for it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways I've seen folks
do this is they'll either ontheir intake form on their
website they'll say you know wehave a job minimum of a thousand
dollars.
Or say we only do full projects, full exteriors or full
interiors, so or full decks orwhatever you're doing, and so
(23:38):
you can get rid of.
Or on your qualifying call, ifyou do a qualification call, you
ask that question like is thisa full exterior or full interior
?
And if it's not, then you canrefer it away or say you can't
help them, whatever.
And if you're getting rid ofthose smaller jobs, that will
increase your overall averagejob size.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, and if someone really likes your company
because your presentation isreally good, they might be
willing to have an extra roompainted that they weren't
planning on, because that's howimportant it is to them to have
your company do the work, tohave your company do the work.
And we also talked about maybefocusing our advertising on
(24:23):
higher margin work likeresidential repaints, exterior
work when the weather is good,that pays better.
And maybe we market to moreaffluent neighborhoods, where
they have more disposable income, larger homes with more square
footage to paint.
Not that we have to excludeanybody, but just kind of
(24:45):
knowing where our ideal clientavatar lives and going to them
will help increase what we cancharge.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, absolutely, that's huge.
Like finding in your city whatare the main neighborhoods you
want to work in, because youknow that's where the folks that
are that have the money thatcan afford to do you know two
coats exterior, full exterior orfull interior job.
Find those neighborhoods andthen start lighting them up with
(25:17):
every door, mailers or door todoor, whatever you can to get in
front of them, to get thosemore ideal clients.
And if they're your idealclients, that's probably going
to increase your average jobsize.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, and then, daniel, you had a really good
suggestion and this kind of goesto like marketing psychology of
the good, better and best, ronfrom Paint Tigers.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
He did a really good job of implementing this.
He increased his average jobsize, which he said publicly in
presentation, so I'm not givingaway any kind of things that he
wouldn't want me to say, but hisaverage job size increased to
like $15,000, in the averagesaround 5,000.
So really really impressivedoing this good, this good,
better, best proposal strategyyeah, so how does that work with
(26:19):
the the good, better, best?
basically you have three optionsfor the customer, because
oftentimes when you go and bid ajob, the customer will or the
the prospect, I should say,before they become a customer
they'll say well, I'm going toget a couple other estimates,
we're going to get at leastthree options.
(26:41):
So the idea here is you'reproviding three options right
away for them, and they knowthat they want to work with you.
They just got to choose whatprice point they want to pay,
and so you have good, better andbest.
Good would be something likeone coat using super paint, so
it's a good product and we'regoing to do a great job, so it's
good.
Then maybe you have anotheroption that's hey, we'll do
(27:04):
better, we'll do two coats usingsuper paint and still great,
great product.
And you get two coats and thenmaybe best would be something
like two coats, but you're goingto use top of the line duration
or whatever and minimal extraservice you're doing, but you're
charging a higher price forthat service Because with
(27:29):
painting, labor is going to beyour biggest thing.
So if you can change just theproduct that you're using and
charging more money, that'sgoing to improve your margins
and also your average job size.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I love it.
Yeah, I know there's been somepsychology done too where if
people are presented with threeoptions, they are more likely to
choose the middle option oreven the high-end option over
the lowest one.
And I think it kind of goes toour psychology of.
You know, I don't want to cheapout, I don't want to miss out
(28:05):
that FOMO, I can't be the onewho picks the bottom line.
So that might help.
Actually, you know, increasethe amount the client was going
to spend in the beginning bygiving them those other options.
And I like this too, because youdon't have to put a hard sell
on anybody.
You're just presenting themwith the options and then they
(28:28):
are self-selecting.
You know something that fitswhat their needs are and what
they want to get out of it.
You're not because you neverwant to like, go in and assume,
oh, this client, this customer,they don't want to pay for this,
they don't have a lot of money,this isn't important to them.
Don't do that to them.
(28:49):
They have the right to choosehow much they value what you
have to offer, to choose howmuch they value what you have to
offer, and they might surpriseyou in what they choose.
So I really enjoyed this podcast.
I think these are some reallycool, you know, actionable
things that we can put intoplace for setting goals for 2025
(29:09):
.
And your goal may be a littlebit different, but whatever it
is, you know, try and make surethat it is a SMART goal so that
it is, you know, related to thatdream that you want to
accomplish.
Come up with one to threestrategies that actually three
to five strategies that aregoing to help you achieve that
(29:32):
goal, and then break thosestrategies down into action
items that you are going toexecute and it's all going to
work itself up to the top andget you that much closer to that
dream home, that dream vacation.
And that's really why we'redoing this right so that we can
do the things that we want to doand have the life that we want
to live.
(29:52):
We want to do and have the lifethat we want to live.
So, stay focused, continue todirect your efforts towards
hitting your target.
We might need to make someadjustments, right, because was
it Muhammad Ali who saideverybody has a plan until they
get punched in the face?
Sometimes stuff comes aroundand punches us in the face and
(30:12):
we need to pivot, but we stillhave our roadmap to success.
So I appreciate everybodylistening to this episode.
I hope you got something out ofit If you would like to share
what some of your goals are orsome of your strategies for
achieving them.
Where can they do that, daniel?
Do we have a Facebook group?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
We do.
Thanks for asking, Richard.
So if you go to Wonderful segue.
Yeah, If you go to Facebook,type in Grow your Painting
Business.
Definitely join that group andask questions, provide
recommendations for futureepisodes.
Love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Absolutely, and I think one of my goals for 2025
needs to be better segues thatcome off more naturally.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think you're doing great.
Oh, thank you.
All right With that.
We will see you next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painting Podcast.
My name is Daniel Honan, I'm aCPA who helps painting business
owners make more money and savebig in tax, and joining me today
is Richard Dunton and we'rediscussing how to set smart
goals for 2025.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, I can't believe we're in 2025 already.
It feels like time just fliesby and here we are.
It's already the end of January.
So if we haven't set our goalsfor 2025 yet, now's a great time
to think about what we want toaccomplish in the new year.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Agreed.
Yeah, it's a great time tothink through things, especially
since a lot of penny businessowners at this point kind of
slow season for most folks, soit's a great time to take a look
at what do you actually want toachieve in the new year, and so
today we're going to dive intosome ways to think about this
(00:56):
and how to set some goals.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, you know, when I try to set goals for myself, I
was actually really surprisedto learn that one of the hardest
things is understanding, like,where I want to be in the next
you know 10 or 15 years.
We can accomplish incrediblethings in the next 12 months and
(01:19):
we can accomplish, likelife-changing you know,
monumental things in the next 10years if we are putting those
steps in place.
So when I think about what Iwant to do in the next 12 months
, I actually start in the futureand I think of, okay, what are
my dreams for the future?
And I try to give myselfpermission to really be
(01:44):
audacious and really think big.
I try not to limit myself,which is hard because we're very
practical people.
We deal in the here and now andthe reality of the situation
and we try not to be overlyoptimistic, but when it comes to
dreaming, we want to do theopposite.
We want to think about, you know, if I could accomplish anything
(02:05):
, what would my life look like10 years from now?
Where would I want to live,like location-wise, what kind of
house would that be?
How many bedrooms would it have?
How many acres of land wouldsurround it?
How much money would be in mybank account in my dream?
(02:26):
What number would give me thatfeeling of security and allow me
to do the things that I want todo when it comes to work?
How many hours per week am Iworking For me personally, I
probably want to work at leastsome hours so that I feel that
satisfaction of accomplishingthings but still have plenty of
time to pursue hobbies and golfand, you know, play with the
(02:51):
kids, and it can even be, youknow, as granular as like what
kind of car do you want to drive?
What kind of vacations do youwant to go on with your family?
I know it sounds a little hokeyand it feels almost like we're
not spending our time wisely,but I think it's worth to spend
five or 10 minutes reallygetting that picture in your
head, so that you know where youwant to go.
(03:14):
You're setting the destination.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I think it's super important.
I've read a lot of biographiesand one of the common themes is
these folks like Jeff Bezos,even Napoleon, sam Walton they
have a very clear picture ofwhat they want to accomplish.
And I think there's a sayingit's belief before action.
(03:38):
You actually have to believe inthese things you want to
accomplish and really be able tovisualize it, in these things
you want to accomplish andreally be able to visualize it.
And it reminds me of Jeff Bezos.
Back in 1994 or 1995 is when hehad the idea for starting Amazon
.
He wanted to start aneverything store on the internet
(03:59):
.
Obviously, when it firststarted it was not the
everything store, it was abookstore online basically.
But he started with books andover many decades he's turned it
into basically everything store.
So now that's why I have tospend my weekends burning or
getting rid of Amazon boxes,because we now purchase
(04:22):
everything from Amazon.
But he started with that ideafrom pretty much the beginning
and it took him a while but heeventually got there.
One of the cool things heactually originally called
Amazon Relentless.
That was one of the originalnames he was wanting to call the
(04:44):
business.
So if you go to relentlesscom,it actually takes you to Amazon,
which I think is kind of cool.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I did not know that.
That is kind of cool.
I bet he he's sitting on apretty valuable URL, like I
think someone would probablyspend Among other things, yeah,
among other things.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, among other things.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Absolutely so.
I know it sounds a little.
We might not be used to doingsomething like this, but having
that end result in mind is superimportant for me, because then
I'm going to start workingbackwards, right?
So, if I want to be in acertain place in 10 years, what
does my income need to look likein five years to get halfway
(05:28):
there?
And then, once I know myfive-year target, I'm going to
look at my three-year targetthat's going to support that,
and then I'm going to look at mynext 12 months.
What do I need to do in thenext year so that I am one-tenth
of the way to where I want togo?
And that's what I'm going touse to set my goals for 2025.
(05:51):
So, when we talk about settinggoals, I think we have to talk
about the difference betweenlike a goal and a wish.
Right?
If I say I want to make moremoney, that is not a goal, that
is a wish.
It is a very nice wish, butwishes do not come true unless
you're in a Disney movie, and sounless you're a Disney princess
(06:13):
.
I think we need to focus ongoals that are specific,
measurable, attainable, relatedand timely.
And you've probably heard theacronym, you know SMART goals,
but that's what separates a goalthat we're actually going to
accomplish with a desire or awish.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's pretty harsh.
You're calling people Disneyprincesses just because they
want to.
Hey, I want to make more money,so you're kind of calling me a
Disney princess, it sounds like,but all right, tough love there
.
I mean make more money, soyou're kind of calling me a
Disney princess, it sounds like,but all right, tough, tough
love there.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean yeah, no, it's cool.
No, I, I didn't.
I didn't say you are a Disneyprincess, if you have a wish.
I said only Disney princesseshave their wishes fulfilled.
Okay, gotcha, Daniel, if youachieve all your dreams without
putting forth effort and settingsmart goals, then I think we
(07:08):
can conclude that you areCinderella.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Right, yeah, no, this makes complete sense.
Right now doing a lot ofmeetings with clients that we're
working with and the topic ofwhat are your goals for 2025?
And oftentimes they'll throwout like, oh, I want to hit
(07:31):
500,000 in revenue or whatevertheir revenue target is, but a
lot of folks haven't quite putin.
Okay, let's actually break thatdown.
What does that mean in terms ofmarketing spend, hiring, do we
have enough production, enoughof a production team, to produce
that amount?
So kind of breaking down thatgoal more specifically can
(07:55):
really help you with planningand actually achieving that goal
.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah.
So that's the S right, that'sspecific.
The M stands for measurable.
And, daniel, I know you've saidrepeatedly that what you can
measure, you can improve, and soif we don't have some metric or
some way of measuring ourprogress, it will be very, very
difficult to know if we're goingin the right direction.
(08:21):
So our goal needs to bemeasurable.
If our goal is to increaserevenue, that's pretty
straightforward, right, whereyou can see has the number
improved over last year.
So having that specific metricis important.
And then the next one is A forattainable.
(08:44):
We want to set goals that arerealistic.
I also think that they shouldbe a little bit ambitious.
Don't make it too easy, butdon't make it impossible to
obtain either.
Otherwise we'll just getfrustrated when it inevitably
does not happen.
But it's okay to push yourselfa little bit.
Increasing revenue by 30% overlast year is attainable.
(09:08):
Increasing by 3,000%?
That might not be realistic,but who knows, maybe you're that
good.
The R in SMART stands forrelated.
So we want to understand howthis goal relates to us
achieving that dream.
(09:28):
Increasing revenue for the yearis directly related to us
making more money, which isdirectly related to us having
that house, going on thosevacations, reducing our stress.
And then T is for timely.
So our goals need to have atime frame.
(09:48):
In this case it's the next 12months.
An open-ended goal with no duedate kind of starts to become a
wish.
So have a set time that youwant to achieve this by.
I know we mentioned as anexample that increasing top line
revenue by 30%.
(10:10):
That could be a good goal.
Another goal we might set maybeI want to increase my average
customer review.
So right now maybe I'm lookingat like 4.5 out of 5 stars on
Google.
Maybe I want to get it up to4.8 by the end of the year.
Maybe our goal is to reduce ourworking hours so that we're
(10:31):
only working 40 hours a week,which I know for some of our
listeners would feel like avacation compared to the 60, 70
plus that they're working now.
But those are all goals thatwould fit within that SMART
framework.
Once we determine what our goalis, we need to come up with
(10:52):
three to five strategies thatwill support that goal.
So we're breaking it down toanother granular level.
For example, let's go with thegoal of I want to increase top
line revenue by 30%.
All right, what are threestrategies that we can implement
that are going to get us tothat goal.
(11:14):
I wrote down a couple examplesand this is not all inclusive,
but we might look at, say,strategy one I need to increase
the amount of leads that I getby 50 percent.
Totally makes sense.
The more leads you get, themore work you get booked, the
(11:35):
more revenue you earn.
So increasing leads would wouldhelp us attain that goal.
Another strategy might be Iwant to increase my closing rate
by 10 or 15 percent.
This is a different strategythan the first one, because now
(11:56):
we are taking the leads that weget and we're converting a
higher percentage of those intowork booked and that's going to
increase our revenue.
A third strategy might be Iwant to increase my average
price by 10 or 15 percent Againanother pathway.
(12:17):
We are taking the work that wedo get booked and we're
increasing its value and thatone's directly affecting revenue
.
So the examples are increasethe leads, increase the close
rate, increase the average price.
We've got these strategies.
We're not done yet.
(12:37):
Each strategy gets broken downinto action items that we need
to execute.
So, for example, strategy oneincrease the amount of leads.
What do we need to do toincrease our leads by 50%.
Well, we're going to need toincrease our advertising.
That seems pretty obvious, buthow are we going to do that in a
(13:00):
way that we are getting themost bang for our buck?
This might be a time where yousit down with your financial
reports or your financialplanner and you really dig into
what is my customer?
Acquisition cost, acquisitioncost what does it cost me in
(13:25):
advertising to get a customer?
Am I spending enough onacquiring customers?
We talk a lot about your salesand marketing should be about
15% of revenue.
Are we spending enough to getthose leads?
And if we are, where should Ibe directing my advertising
budget, because not allmarketing channels are equal.
You know, to get the most bangfor our buck, I would be sitting
(13:48):
down and looking at ourdifferent marketing channels.
Let's say we had three differentmarketing channels Facebook ads
, angie List, leads and directmailings.
What is our average return oninvestment?
So if we spend $20 on Facebookads, are we getting $100 of new
(14:10):
work?
That would be a one to fiveratio there.
That's pretty good.
How about Angie's list?
Angie's list is getting moreexpensive every year and
sometimes I've heard the leadsthat come from there aren't as
high quality as maybe they usedto be in the past.
Are we still getting a goodreturn For every $20 that we
(14:30):
spend on Angie's List?
Maybe we're only getting $60 inwork booked.
Direct mail is an interestingone because this seems to be
cyclical, right.
There was a time when directmail advertising was very, very
popular, very effective.
Then we enter in the digitalage.
Email comes, people start tokind of ignore the stuff that
(14:54):
shows up in their mailbox andnow we're seeing it go the
opposite way again, where peopleare sick and tired of email and
websites and you know getting aprinted postcard with, you know
, a glossy finish, that thatmeans more than it used to.
So you know what does it meantoday?
What are we?
You know, what kind of returnare we getting on it in 2025?
(15:17):
Once we figure out themarketing channel that's giving
us the best return, then we knowwhere to focus our money.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And I think a lot of folks recently last month or so
that I've been talking to, theyhave a lot of inbound marketing.
They have a lot of inboundmarketing, meaning they get
leads from repeat work likefolks that they've worked with
(15:47):
in the past that want to do workwith them again.
Or they get referrals peopletelling them about their
services and so they're notspending a lot on marketing
right now, but they want to growquickly or faster than they
have been in the past and sothey're looking at more outbound
strategies like Facebook ads ordirect mail or door-to-door,
(16:08):
and sometimes you don't have thecustomer acquisition cost to
look at historically on yourfinancials because you haven't
done it before.
So you might actually have todo some research.
If you're adding a marketingchannel like if, let's say,
you're adding Facebook ads toyour marketing because you've
(16:29):
never done it before you've onlydone repeat work and referral
work but you want to grow faster, so you're going to add in
Facebook ads to get that growthgoing.
That might be something you'llhave to do some research and
right now I think Facebook adleads are costing about $60 to
$80 per lead and then makingsure you understand everything
(16:51):
that goes into nurturingFacebook leads like getting them
set on the calendar as quicklyas possible, and usually
Facebook leads are going to be alittle bit harder to close, so
your close rate might beaffected negatively.
And this is generally true foroutbound.
When you're doing outboundmarketing it's usually harder to
(17:14):
close people because you foundthem instead of them coming out
and finding you, so it's alittle bit more difficult, but
it's necessary for growth.
So sometimes you might not knowyour customer acquisition costs
because you haven't done thistype of marketing before.
So getting smart on thosedifferent channels will really
help you determine how toimplement this strategy and how
(17:38):
much you actually have to putinto increasing your leads.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, I think that's good advice.
You know, the market changesand sometimes it changes slowly
and sometimes it changes, youknow, overnight.
And when that happens we needto change our marketing to reach
, you know, the people we wantit to reach.
So I think it is very importantto keep a close eye on what's
(18:04):
working and what's not, and thenwe can kind of emphasize what's
working, really direct ourefforts towards what's going to
do the most good, because what'sworked in the past may not work
now.
And so I just think of, likeyou know, if our goal is to
increase our leads by 50 percentand we don't pay attention to
(18:25):
what marketing channels are bestand we just dump a bunch of
advertising dollars intosomething that might not be
working, how tragic would thatbe?
Because not only are we notgoing to hit our revenue goal,
our profit's going to be downbecause we wasted a bunch of
money on advertising, and wemight get discouraged and say
you know, hey, that was a stupidgoal that's not obtainable.
(18:46):
Well, the goal itself isprobably a good goal, but maybe
the execution wasn't where itneeded to be.
So keeping an eye on thosethings, I think, is really
important.
So that's one strategy rightincreasing the leads.
Another strategy would be toincrease the close rate.
(19:07):
So what action items do we needto employ for this?
Well, if we're going toincrease our close rate, then we
really need to examine ourcurrent sales process and see is
there any way that we canimprove it?
You know, maybe we've gotten alittle bit complacent and we
don't prepare as well.
I know it's easy to kind offall into that rut.
(19:29):
But even if we're able to justimprove by 10 or 15 percent,
that increase in our close rateis going to help us achieve our
revenue goal.
When we are going through oursales process, are we clearly
showing our value to ourpotential customer?
Are we making the processsmooth and easy and downright
(19:54):
enjoyable for them?
Are we making sure that we arepresenting the proposal on site?
So that might mean that we haveto have a printer in our van.
It might mean that we need toinvest in some technology so
that we can prepare thoseproposals before we leave the
property.
If we are taking theinformation back to our office,
(20:18):
preparing a proposal and thenemailing it to them 12 to 24
hours later that's 12 hours theyhave to call somebody else and
we've lost that initialexcitement.
So being able to present theproposal, talk about the price,
overcome any objections inperson is going to be big.
(20:42):
And speaking of overcomingobjections, have we kind of role
played that?
What are our most commonobjections?
That is going to address theirconcern.
That we can easily rattle offwith confidence so that we're
(21:02):
not leaving them with any reasonto say no to us.
Those are all things that couldimprove our sales process.
The third strategy is toincrease our price, and it was
funny when Daniel and I werepreparing for this podcast we
were kind of like oh, increasedprice, that's easy, right, we
just changed the number on theproposal.
(21:23):
How difficult is that?
And then we startedbrainstorming it a little bit
with action items and werealized that there's a lot more
to it than just charging more.
Right, that's kind of a glibanswer just charge more.
We can charge more, but we haveto increase the value that the
customer is getting.
People don't say no on price.
(21:46):
They say no when they don't seeenough value for the money
being paid.
So how do we increase the valueso that we can charge more?
Well, we could improve our offer.
That means, maybe, a betterpresentation.
So maybe we have been a littlebit lax on our dress code, but
could you know, branded whitesreally help give a more
(22:09):
professional presentation and abetter experience for the
customer.
We might improve our offer withadd-on services that don't cost
us a lot.
So, like color consultation isa big one, it may seem like a
(22:36):
simple thing to us.
Next, you know 8 to 12 years.
Having someone give themsuggestions and guide them is
incredibly valuable and thatdoesn't cost us hardly anything
to do that.
Another way that we canincrease our prices is simply by
(22:56):
seeking out jobs that pay usbetter.
So maybe we turn down partialjobs or we push to get more
rooms in the house so that wecan have a higher average job
cost.
Maybe there's.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
There's.
Oh sorry, Interrupt.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
There's a couple of ways Go for it.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways I've seen folks
do this is they'll either ontheir intake form on their
website they'll say you know wehave a job minimum of a thousand
dollars.
Or say we only do full projects, full exteriors or full
interiors, so or full decks orwhatever you're doing, and so
(23:38):
you can get rid of.
Or on your qualifying call, ifyou do a qualification call, you
ask that question like is thisa full exterior or full interior
?
And if it's not, then you canrefer it away or say you can't
help them, whatever.
And if you're getting rid ofthose smaller jobs, that will
increase your overall averagejob size.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, and if someone really likes your company
because your presentation isreally good, they might be
willing to have an extra roompainted that they weren't
planning on, because that's howimportant it is to them to have
your company do the work, tohave your company do the work.
And we also talked about maybefocusing our advertising on
(24:23):
higher margin work likeresidential repaints, exterior
work when the weather is good,that pays better.
And maybe we market to moreaffluent neighborhoods, where
they have more disposable income, larger homes with more square
footage to paint.
Not that we have to excludeanybody, but just kind of
(24:45):
knowing where our ideal clientavatar lives and going to them
will help increase what we cancharge.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, absolutely, that's huge.
Like finding in your city whatare the main neighborhoods you
want to work in, because youknow that's where the folks that
are that have the money thatcan afford to do you know two
coats exterior, full exterior orfull interior job.
Find those neighborhoods andthen start lighting them up with
(25:17):
every door, mailers or door todoor, whatever you can to get in
front of them, to get thosemore ideal clients.
And if they're your idealclients, that's probably going
to increase your average jobsize.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, and then, daniel, you had a really good
suggestion and this kind of goesto like marketing psychology of
the good, better and best, ronfrom Paint Tigers.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
He did a really good job of implementing this.
He increased his average jobsize, which he said publicly in
presentation, so I'm not givingaway any kind of things that he
wouldn't want me to say, but hisaverage job size increased to
like $15,000, in the averagesaround 5,000.
So really really impressivedoing this good, this good,
better, best proposal strategyyeah, so how does that work with
(26:19):
the the good, better, best?
basically you have three optionsfor the customer, because
oftentimes when you go and bid ajob, the customer will or the
the prospect, I should say,before they become a customer
they'll say well, I'm going toget a couple other estimates,
we're going to get at leastthree options.
(26:41):
So the idea here is you'reproviding three options right
away for them, and they knowthat they want to work with you.
They just got to choose whatprice point they want to pay,
and so you have good, better andbest.
Good would be something likeone coat using super paint, so
it's a good product and we'regoing to do a great job, so it's
good.
Then maybe you have anotheroption that's hey, we'll do
(27:04):
better, we'll do two coats usingsuper paint and still great,
great product.
And you get two coats and thenmaybe best would be something
like two coats, but you're goingto use top of the line duration
or whatever and minimal extraservice you're doing, but you're
charging a higher price forthat service Because with
(27:29):
painting, labor is going to beyour biggest thing.
So if you can change just theproduct that you're using and
charging more money, that'sgoing to improve your margins
and also your average job size.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I love it.
Yeah, I know there's been somepsychology done too where if
people are presented with threeoptions, they are more likely to
choose the middle option oreven the high-end option over
the lowest one.
And I think it kind of goes toour psychology of.
You know, I don't want to cheapout, I don't want to miss out
(28:05):
that FOMO, I can't be the onewho picks the bottom line.
So that might help.
Actually, you know, increasethe amount the client was going
to spend in the beginning bygiving them those other options.
And I like this too, because youdon't have to put a hard sell
on anybody.
You're just presenting themwith the options and then they
(28:28):
are self-selecting.
You know something that fitswhat their needs are and what
they want to get out of it.
You're not because you neverwant to like, go in and assume,
oh, this client, this customer,they don't want to pay for this,
they don't have a lot of money,this isn't important to them.
Don't do that to them.
(28:49):
They have the right to choosehow much they value what you
have to offer, to choose howmuch they value what you have to
offer, and they might surpriseyou in what they choose.
So I really enjoyed this podcast.
I think these are some reallycool, you know, actionable
things that we can put intoplace for setting goals for 2025
(29:09):
.
And your goal may be a littlebit different, but whatever it
is, you know, try and make surethat it is a SMART goal so that
it is, you know, related to thatdream that you want to
accomplish.
Come up with one to threestrategies that actually three
to five strategies that aregoing to help you achieve that
(29:32):
goal, and then break thosestrategies down into action
items that you are going toexecute and it's all going to
work itself up to the top andget you that much closer to that
dream home, that dream vacation.
And that's really why we'redoing this right so that we can
do the things that we want to doand have the life that we want
to live.
(29:52):
We want to do and have the lifethat we want to live.
So, stay focused, continue todirect your efforts towards
hitting your target.
We might need to make someadjustments, right, because was
it Muhammad Ali who saideverybody has a plan until they
get punched in the face?
Sometimes stuff comes aroundand punches us in the face and
(30:12):
we need to pivot, but we stillhave our roadmap to success.
So I appreciate everybodylistening to this episode.
I hope you got something out ofit If you would like to share
what some of your goals are orsome of your strategies for
achieving them.
Where can they do that, daniel?
Do we have a Facebook group?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
We do.
Thanks for asking, Richard.
So if you go to Wonderful segue.
Yeah, If you go to Facebook,type in Grow your Painting
Business.
Definitely join that group andask questions, provide
recommendations for futureepisodes.
Love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Absolutely, and I think one of my goals for 2025
needs to be better segues thatcome off more naturally.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think you're doing great.
Oh, thank you.
All right With that.
We will see you next week.
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