April 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Paint, Profits & People: The Leadership Edge
In this episode of the Profitable Painter Podcast, host Daniel Honan sits down with Andrew Dwyer, publisher of American Painting Contractor (APC) and a trusted voice in the industry for over 30 years. Together, they dive deep into what really sets successful painting contractors apart from the rest, and it's not just talent or tools.
With his decades of experience and bird’s-eye view of the industry, Andrew shares powerful insights on how curiosity, coachability, and mindset play a bigger role in business success than most people realize. If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of what to focus on next, this episode is for you.
Takeaways from this conversation with Andrew Dwyer:
- The Growth Divide: Why the painters who constantly seek to improve are the ones who last, and grow.
- Coachability Wins: How being open to feedback (and willing to admit what you don’t know) leads to better results, stronger teams, and smarter decisions.
- Change Without Chaos: Practical tips for implementing improvements in your business without overwhelming your crew, or yourself.
- Mindset Shifts: Discover the power of mindfulness, daily awareness, and simple networking to build confidence and stay grounded as a leader.
- Accountability Matters: Why having someone to keep you on track—whether it’s a coach or a fellow contractor, can be the difference between talking about change and actually making it happen.
Packed with real-world examples, humor, and actionable advice, this episode is a must-listen for painting business owners ready to lead with clarity and purpose.
🎧 Tune in now, and start building a business that works for you, not the other way around.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This is Daniel Honan, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners.
Help them know their numbersand what they mean.
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, and today I'm
super excited to talk to AndrewDwyer.
How's it going, Andrew?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Man, Daniel, it's great.
I appreciate you inviting me on.
We play in the same sandbox.
You and I are two companies.
I think we're kindred spirits.
We have very similar goals,certainly similar attitudes.
So, yeah, thanks for having meon man.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Um, you know you're over there at apc magazine.
Could you kind of give folks anunderstanding of where you're
coming from, what you do?
I know you've had a longjourney through the painting
industry, um, and become one ofthe you know, a trusted voice
really of the painting industry.
How did that journey begin andand what are some defining
moments along the way?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I appreciate that man .
Um, yeah, amazingly, I've beenat APC.
It's largely the only job I'veever had and it's been 31 years
now, which is insane, becausewhen I started, who knew that
was going to happen?
But yeah, I was an Englishmajor, wanted to get into media,
(02:02):
applied for the job asassistant editor back when the
company was based in St Louis,started in 94 as assistant
editor, then becameeditor-in-chief, then became
publisher, which just meansyou're less involved in the
day-to-day content and moreinvolved in the overall
(02:25):
operations of the media company,as well as sales and man.
Obviously, media has changed aton.
We used to be just a magazine.
Now we're a magazine and somuch more, just like any other
media company that is still inbusiness, and so it's the weekly
newsletter, it's a podcast,it's video, social media, the
(02:45):
website, live events.
It's everywhere people expectcontent to be, is where we need
to be and we're.
You know we're a national mediacompany and our audience is
incredibly focused.
It's purely painting contractors.
That's all we do, and all ofour content is free.
(03:08):
All of our revenue is generatedvia advertising and marketing.
So it's really a huge win forpainting contractors because
we're professional media people,we're professional storytellers
.
We understand how to tell agood story, how to get in touch
(03:29):
with the right people, andthat's really what we do at APC.
It's our job to knowinteresting people who are doing
really interesting things inthe painting world, and those
are the people we write about inthe magazine and we put on the
podcast and we feature in themagazine and because of that we
attract a very loyal audience ofpainting contractors and
(03:51):
because of that we also attractadvertisers and that's how we
stay in business, daniel.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, you guys are doing great things over there at
APC.
I mean, one of the things I'mkind of curious about is, since
you've been around for threedecades now, what and you've
seen like the trends and tacticsand tech come and go, and what
do you think separates paintingcontractors who actually improve
(04:22):
their business and makeprogress as opposed to, uh,
those who kind of stay stuck,cause there was some at this,
the last PCA event, uh, therewas some statistics thrown
around like the average paintingbusiness only has, on average,
is one and a half people, uh,and that they're only in
(04:43):
business for like 18 months.
So what have you seen, you know, be the deciding factor or
factors that separate a paintingbusiness that actually grows
and progresses through the yearsas opposed to staying stuck or
quitting early?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Love that question, daniel.
Great question, insightfulquestion.
So I think the problem or thechallenge hasn't changed over
the years.
Meaning the challenge is youneed to want to get better as a
business owner, in this case, asa painting contractor.
You have to have that curiosity, that drive to get better, and
(05:23):
I don't think that has changedover the years.
What has changed dramaticallyis how you can solve that
problem.
It's so much easier to availyourself of resources.
It's so much easier to connectwith contractors across the
country.
There's so many resources outthere.
(05:44):
But the simple, direct answer toyour question is I think the
dividing line is drive anddesire and curiosity.
And so you know lots of peoplelike to talk about how many
painting contractors are therein the country and you know, is
it 200,000?
Is it a million?
A lot of those paintingcontractors don't think they
(06:05):
need any help, and that's okay.
I mean, if they're happy,that's great.
Then you don't need any help.
If you're happy, you'resatisfied that you're charting
your course and you're drivingyour business, and your business
isn't driving you, heck yeah,you don't need any help.
But there's also so many peoplewho are like what's going on?
This isn't why you heck yeah,you don't need any help.
(06:26):
But there's also so many peoplewho are like what's going on?
This isn't why I got intobusiness.
It's got to be better than this.
It's got to be easier than this.
What am I doing wrong?
Acknowledging, like man,there's got to be more to it.
This isn't why I signed up.
So, acknowledging the problem,why don't?
I don't feel good and thengoing to the next level of you
know what?
(06:46):
I'm going to do something aboutthis.
That's.
That's what's wonderful.
I think that mindset of thingscan be better, being coachable,
having the mindset that you knowwhat.
There are better options andbetter ideas out there.
I just need to go find them andI'm going to go find them.
Options and better ideas outthere, I just need to go find
them and I'm going to go findthem.
(07:06):
I think that's.
And so, whether you, whetheryou listen to podcasts which
again is like a lot of peoplewould never listen to a podcast
because they just don't thinkthey need it why would I listen
to a painting podcast?
I'm already a painter, I don'tneed to know how to paint, but I
think the I don't want to saythe best among us because, again
, if you're not curious and youare happy, excellent, good for
(07:27):
you.
But if you are curious, if youhave that fire burn inside that,
oh, I wonder if things could bebetter.
That's fabulous and go out andyou seek the resources, because
there's so many resources outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
There's a lot of folks I talkedto a lot of painting businesses
over the last nine years andthere's definitely some folks
where they're very kind ofresistant to accepting feedback.
And I get it, because that'ssometimes I am as well like I.
(08:04):
You know, if, especially ifwe're talking about accounting
or something like that, I'm anaccountant, I've been an
accountant for years why are youtelling me how I should run my
accounting firm or whatever?
So I kind of get it open towhat you have to.
You know, recommendations thatI would have and seem really
(08:28):
coachable and more open to andhumble really, which is, you
know, if you've been in thetrades or as a painting
contractor for years and yearsand you're humble enough to
accept that feedback, thoserecommendations, I think that's
a huge thing and you might, youknow, not all the
(08:50):
recommendations you get aregoing to be good, but I think
being open to it can lead youdown a road that you might hey
learn something and be able totake that and run with it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Daniel, one of my favorite phrases is it takes
courage to be humble, because toput yourself in that position
to acknowledge there's somethingI'm missing, there's something
I don't know, there's somethingI could learn, and, in a way,
sort of submit yourself that youknow, yes, I'm going to seek
out others who might be able tohelp me.
That's humility, and it takescourage to be humble and 100%.
(09:25):
That's what being coachablemeans, and certainly in the
world of accounting.
Yes, there are some paintingcontractors out there who are
just really fluid and keen onnumbers and finances and all of
that, but most of them aren't,and so that should be a known
blind spot or weakness for themajority of painting contractors
(09:47):
.
There's a lot about financethat I probably don't know, and
you know what.
I'm going to go out and I'mgoing to get myself an
accountant and I'm going to behumble and say what do I don't
know?
Look at these numbers, whatdon't I know?
What am I missing?
And that's why it's got to be.
You're almost like a counselor,I think, when you're in
accounting, daniel, becauseyou've got to share some bad
(10:11):
news to some of thesecontractors, or what they may
perceive as bad news, like herewas your quarterly gross profit
Solid, but here's why and how itcould be better.
And if the contractor is nothumble and lacks the courage to
hear what he might think is badnews, he or she's going to have
(10:36):
a hard time growing.
I know there's something I'mmissing, daniel.
That's why I brought you on.
I'm ready to take my medicine.
Hit me with the bad news, Iwould guess, daniel.
That's why I brought you on.
I'm ready to take my medicine.
Hit me with the bad news, right, wouldn't you?
I would guess, daniel, thatthose are the clients that you
love working with the most whowere like okay, I'm ready, man,
tell me what I did wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Right, yeah, absolutely yeah, it's it.
Uh, I mean, I guess I'm used todelivering bad news, um well,
and I don't even think it wasbad news anymore, I think I'm I
kind of get excited when I find,okay, here's the problems,
because I feel like we can fixthem once you know.
(11:17):
It's hard to fix a problem, youdon't know what's going on, but
if you know what the problem is, then you, then it's just a
matter of implementing thesolution.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yep, so in my mind, it's not a problem, it's an
opportunity.
It's another one of thosephrases.
I love that you can roll youreyes at that.
This isn't a problem, it's anopportunity.
Every opportunity starts out asa problem, but once you solve
it, it's an opportunity.
And I think I also love thisidea of confidence versus
(11:49):
arrogance.
Where confidence is this beliefin yourself that I can do it.
I can fix this, I'm up to thetask.
I can rise to the challenge,the burdens and the barriers and
the obstacles that I'mcurrently facing.
Whatever I'm going to lean intoit.
The only way out is through,and so I'm going to lean in.
(12:11):
I have the confidence I can dothat.
Arrogance is where you think allof those same things, but I
don't need anybody's help.
I know better than everyoneelse.
I don't need their help, nobodycan help me.
I know better than everyoneelse.
I don't need their help, nobodycan help me.
Confidence comes from like agrowth mindset.
Arrogance comes from a scarcitymindset, where you're skeptical
(12:35):
and uptight and think the worstof people.
I mean, that's really what thedefinition of a scarcity or a
paucity mindset is that there'snot much business out there,
there's not much success.
I need to grab it and hold iton.
And I think that's why, whenyou attend events in this
(12:55):
industry whether they're PCAevents or anybody's event
learning how to network, havingthat courage and the humility to
to meet new people, to behonest, to to learn what they're
doing, that's, um, that's theconfidence that the world can
help you get better, becausethere's just so many great
people out there who lovesharing their story, who want to
hear your story.
(13:15):
That's how we grow together.
I know I sound like a I don'tknow a Dale Carnegie tape, but
it's just, that's just.
I believe in that, like um.
Now I'm also 55 and it's takenme a long time to get to here,
to develop as much faith as Inow have in people.
(13:36):
Um, and now it's a wonderfulthing.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I like the, the way you described confidence
versus, um, arrogance, like the.
I've never heard it describedlike that before, but it makes
sense.
And uh, I'm just reflecting.
I'm also feel like this ispartly a therapy session, Cause
I feel like sometimes I'marrogant and like, yeah, that
(14:00):
makes sense we all are, ofcourse.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, that's.
I think that's the beauty ofmindfulness, which to me simply
means I mean, if you're intomeditation, great.
Personally I don't meditate,but that doesn't mean I'm not
mindful.
Mindfulness just means beinghumble, being objective.
You know how did I do today?
How did I handle that situation?
(14:23):
I'm coachable, which means insome cases I can coach myself.
I can say, man, the way I justinteracted with my wife was BS.
She must think I'm a jackass.
So I need to be humble toacknowledge that I failed, and
that's how you then improve.
(14:43):
To me, that's what mindfulnessis.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So I guess, in your experience, what do you think
business owners that struggle tobe coachable?
How should they start shiftingthat mindset?
Should it just be a mindfulnessthing like to to try to catch
yourself when you get into thosethose traps of thinking in
(15:12):
scarcity instead of growth?
Is that kind of the way to todo a 180 from being not
coachable to someone's coachable?
That's growth oriented again.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Daniel, I think I love that question because you
really dialed it down to thecore, like, okay, I'm buying
into this idea, but now what doI do?
I'm a big believer inaccountability coaches.
We can't all hire businesscoaches and we can't all hire
consultants.
But there's this idea that ifyou say it out loud, it becomes
(15:47):
real.
If you tell somebody, itbecomes real.
If you tell people, you knowwhat?
I'm going to read 20 books thisyear.
The more people you tell, themore likely you are to do it,
because you put it out therethat people know.
And now there's this likepositive pressure and of course,
again there's negative pressureand there's positive pressure,
like, okay, I've told people,I'm going to do this, I need to
(16:07):
do it.
And it can start with just anaccountability coach, whether
it's a fellow paintingcontractor, a friend, it could
be a spouse, I think.
Ideally it's another paintingcontractor, and you just agree
to meet once a month or everytwo months.
And so when you see that onyour calendar that, oh, two
(16:28):
weeks from now I got to meetwith Daniel, and of course the
whole point of that meeting isto keep each other accountable,
I better get to work, areblessed with the ability.
We're just type A and we justget stuff done and we don't need
(16:48):
reminders and we don't needanybody to crack the whip and we
don't need a trainer at the gym, we just go.
Man, that's not me, that's notmost of us.
So, yeah, just start with uswith just one friend who you can
, who can become anaccountability coach and help
keep each other in line.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It's incredibly effective coach and help keep
each other in line.
It's incredibly effective.
Yeah, no coaches.
And I've, just over the lastfew years, uh, I ran, I guess
kind of ironically, since I'm asemi coach, but, uh, you know,
accounting coach I guess.
But um, just over the last fewyears I've really bought into
(17:26):
the coach ideal because I have atendency to think I can just do
it all myself.
They're the arrogance thing itpops up again.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That's confidence, man, that's not arrogance.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But over the last few years I've been really, you
know know, spending a lot oncoaches helping me get better on
things.
And you know it can be scary to, to put you know, some put
money down and actually investin that thing if you're not used
(18:00):
to it and uh, you know.
But it can really open up yourmind and just speed up your
learning so much when you'reworking with, especially with,
somebody who has done it before.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, that's a great point.
You know, one quirky thing thatI started doing maybe two years
ago, is on the topic ofmindfulness, which, again, I
think unlocks.
This is like a superpower themore aware you can be of the
things that you do mindlessly,which we all do.
So it's not about being morestressed or more like why did I
(18:37):
do that?
It's just about being morepresent and aware that when I
would approach and I know thisis not just me when I would
approach a stop sign or afour-way stop or a three-way
stop, I think we all tend totreat that as like a race, like
if, uh-oh, two cars areapproaching at the same time,
I'm going to make sure I getthere first because I want to go
(18:59):
first.
Granted, some of us are blessedand they're super chill and we
don't worry about that stuff andwe're zen, but I think a lot of
us just naturally get sucked into this, this idea that there's
a competition at the four waystop and by god, I'm not going
to lose this competition.
And it occurred to me like, whatam I doing?
This is, this is I'm justcreating stress in my day and I
(19:23):
just don't need it because it'sso unimportant.
And so then, when I startedapproaching four-way stops, I
would actually be aware of thatand and and then I would
actually like slow down and I'dbe like you know what, I'm not
gonna get sucked into this andyes, I'm gonna let you go first
and look at me, I'm such a greatguy because I let you go first
(19:43):
and I didn't.
I can't lose because I'm notplaying, which makes me a winner
.
So, and it sounds so corny, andI guess in a way, it is corny,
but oh my God, it was soeffective, because I find myself
at stop signs all the time, andso that was, you know, three,
five, eight times a day I havethis sort of built-in
(20:05):
mindfulness check that wouldjust lower my heart rate a
little bit instead of elevatingit, and remind me, you know,
let's choose wisely when weengage and when we turn up the
pressure, and this is not one ofthem.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
That's interesting.
You're anchoring yourmindfulness to something that
happens that throughout the day,uh, which is pretty cool.
I it's kind of like uh remindsme of atomic habits, like habit
stacking, yeah yeah where you,if you want to add a new habit
(20:43):
to your routine, you just pick ahabit that you already do, like
brushing your teeth every,every night, and then just
stacking your habit on top ofthat brushing your teeth thing.
That's what it reminds me of.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I think that's a good idea it's a great, that's a
great, uh great way to relate it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, you're right um now, um Now, with this change
changing your coachability, yourmindset.
I know that change is prettyhard, especially when running a
business.
Whenever we're trying to changesomething in bookkeeping for
painters, it's not just decidingon how you're going to change,
(21:24):
but it's also changing theorganization and everyone's
habits within the organizationand it's uh, it's usually a pain
, a huge pain, to to do any kindof change, because there's
always all this pushback andpeople get grumpy over the
change and uh, it's hard, tohard, to get everybody on the
(21:44):
same page.
But do you have so it's, it'shard enough to do it for
yourself, like individually, butthen when you talk about trying
to change other people as well,it's like just adds a
exponential component to it.
What advice do you givepainting contractors who want to
implement improvements withoutoverwhelming themselves or their
(22:06):
teams?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, man, ever, ever .
Everything requires a plan.
Um, I love the concept of uh,like a lot of times people to
talk about a quarterback, abouthow the game was too fast or you
know, the game is so slow forthem, meaning they've got a
presence of mine in the pocketand it may seem like there's a
lot going on, but to thisquarterback the game is just
slow, meaning nothing rattlesthis quarterback and they can
(22:34):
see things unfolding.
How do we do that?
How do we get to that point?
It's through preparation andplanning.
If you're going to run amarathon, you've got to know
what your goals are.
What is your mile pace?
You've got to check your pace.
Am I on target?
Am I off target?
And the same is true aboutimplementing change.
(22:55):
Take a breath, figure it out.
Certainly, one mistake is toomuch change at once.
You know businesses reallyshouldn't incorporate more than
one significant process change,probably per quarter or maybe
per half, because you're justgoing to overwhelm your people.
(23:18):
If there's too much change, youas a leader, as a manager,
you're not going to be able tomanage that much change.
So be reasonable, be modest.
Like what can I reasonablyexpect to accomplish this
quarter and then draw up theplan and then, when it's time to
talk to your team, you bettershow up to that meeting 15, 30
(23:40):
minutes early.
You don't want to be rushed.
You got to clear your head.
You need to be a clear glass ofwater, which is another phrase
I love.
You got to be at peace.
You can't be rattled.
You have to have clear vision.
So that's it.
Don't try to do too much Planand prep.
And then, ideally, you reallygot to have a good management
(24:02):
team around you, because if weneed to be coachable, but we
also have to have coaches, andso everybody should have a
management team.
And you rely on that managementteam and say, look, here's what
I'm thinking, here's what I'mgoing to do, what do you think?
And you know it's the leader'sjob to make the decision, but
it's also the leader's job toaccept input and hear the input
(24:25):
of others.
So you surround yourself with agood team who understands what
you're trying to accomplish, bepatient, listen to their
feedback, give it seriousconsideration, let it ground you
and then, yeah, you can.
There's so much change that youcan accomplish when you're
grounded and you've got the planin place.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
This reminds me of coming back from, like the PCca
event was, uh, the big one.
The expo was in february.
I had like over a thousandfolks there, really great event.
Uh, there was so many greatpresenters, great information it
was.
It was like drinking through afire hose really.
(25:06):
And you know, I feel likeprobably a lot of people came
out of that with, you know, notjust one or two things, but
maybe 10 or 20 things that theywanted to change in their
business.
So sometimes the change is hardand if we're only doing one at
a time, you really have to makesure that you are picking the
(25:26):
right thing to change and whatto focus on, what to change
first.
Do you have any thoughts on howto prioritize?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Well, I mean, I think I mean that's the answer you
have to prioritize, and I thinkthat's what a lot of people
don't do.
And so you know, I'm a bigbeliever and like I would make
my kids watch Apollo 13 becausethis idea of you know, we're
going to work the problem andlet's not panic, let's not make
things worse by guessing right,you've got that massive failure
(26:00):
up in space.
But we're going to.
We're facing a challenge noneof us have really prepared for
and we're not exactly trainedfor it, but we are generally
trained for it.
And that's what we're notexactly trained for it, but we
are generally trained for it.
And that's what we're going todo.
We're going to keep our headand we're going to solve this
problem.
It's going to be our greatest.
What?
What some thought would be ourworst?
Um, failure, it's going to beour greatest achievement.
(26:21):
And so, yes, when you go to anexpo, uh, when you listen to a
podcast that covers a ton ofideas and you write down 20 of
them and your head starts torace like, oh, my god, what
should I do?
What should again, you, yougotta?
There's a ton of great ideasthat you will not get to and so
(26:42):
make.
Take good notes.
At an event like that, put itaway, come back a week later,
look at it with fresh eyesthere's going to be one or two
or three things that jump out atyou.
And I think that because thisagain the idea of like recency
bias in the heat of the moment,if you're at like an annual
convention like that, like PCAExpo, it is overwhelming.
(27:05):
And so your job there is justto collect all these ideas and
write them down and then leaveand let there be space and then
come back when you've had achance to relax, take another
look, and then it's justnaturally one or two or three
things are going to bubble uplike okay, those are the most
important, those are the bestideas, and and and we all have
(27:28):
to remember that there's somegreat ideas, but we're just not
going to get to them yet, andthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, I think that's right.
You know, going to these events, my notepad's always full and
it's like what do I do first?
Kind of give it some space,come back the next week, open
that notebook again and itstarts to be clear, I think.
I think giving it some timeCause whenever I ask, I always
(27:58):
ask this question when I seefolks at the event is like
what's your big takeaway so far?
Or like, and oftentimes like Ithink I get a blank stare like
it's just too much, I don't know, but uh, it's hard to, uh to
process all that, but uh, cool,um, do you have it?
(28:20):
So we've kind of, we've kind oftouched on a lot of topics.
We talked about being coachable, like mindset, like what's your
mindset?
Your growth mindset should be,which includes being coachable,
being open to things so that youcan learn more and progress.
And then we also talked aboutchange, like how to implement
(28:43):
change for yourself but also foryour business.
You know, getting that buy-infrom your team so that, in not
trying to implement too much allat once, what are the things
have you seen through your yearsbeing in the painting industry?
What are the things do youthink are are key for painting
(29:05):
business owners to to have thatgrowth mentality to, to be able
to, to lead their businesses tothe next level.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So I I think, um, I think a lot about, and I talk a
lot about um, cause I also dosome keynote speaking, um, and,
and that usually takes two forms.
One is simply, you know,addressing people early on in
the convention and just tryingto get everybody on the same
page.
What does success look like?
What are we trying toaccomplish here?
(29:34):
And a big part of that iscreating a team mentality that
you're not just here by yourself.
We're all in the same businesshere, and each of our individual
growth at this event andindividual success at this event
is absolutely tied to everybodyelse here, and so there has to
(29:56):
be this sharing, thiswillingness to share, and so it
doesn't matter how introvertedor extroverted you are, we're
all here to meet new people, andso we're going to introduce
ourselves, we're going to saywhat do you do?
Because, guess what?
We all know we paint.
And so let's ask thosequestions and let's you know we,
(30:20):
the, the.
The phrase servant leader, Ithink, is a, is a wonderful
concept.
That, because it really sort ofdrives me on the point that,
yes, I'm the leader of mycompany, I'm the boss, but
that's not an award, right, it'snot a reward, it's not the
culmination of something.
It comes with a responsibility.
(30:41):
Like I have the responsibilityand the opportunity to improve
these people's lives, includingmy own life, including the life
of my family, and I'm going totake that seriously.
And so I know I'm getting alittle far field, daniel, but to
me, that's what it's all aboutis staying humble, being curious
(31:02):
, asking people what they do.
I did a TEDx talk and that wasthe entire point of the TEDx
talk was speaking to strangersfor 10 seconds, because it can
change the way you view theworld.
Tell me about you.
What do you do?
Building that little minibridge?
Because you get a hit ofendorphin that like wow, that
(31:27):
was, that was fun, or he wasfunny, or I made that person
laugh, and it just, it just pepsyou up for a brief second, it
gives you a little more energyin the middle of the day and it
it creates muscle memory, right,and so that when you go to the
event, you are better able tonetwork.
(31:47):
And since the whole point atleast one of my points from the
beginning of this podcast wasthat we need to avail ourselves
of resources such as people, wehave to network, we have to be
comfortable talking to otherpeople.
What do you do?
What's your biggest challenge?
How was your year last year?
And then listen to their ideas.
How was your year last year?
And then listen to their ideas.
(32:08):
And, of course, at this point,daniel, I've completely
forgotten what your question was, because I'm so high on my high
horse I can't even rememberwhat it was.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
No, just other things for painting contractors to get
that growth, growth mindsetwhich you did.
Answer the question, um, inyour, in your tedx talk that you
did.
Uh, the?
The intro is funny becauseyou're like, you know, if aliens
were to come down and look athumans and then see them in
elevators, they would think thatelevators were really dangerous
.
Because whenever people get into an elevator they're very just
(32:50):
.
They should kind of shut downsocially and just like stare at
the floor and just like don'tmove or talk or anything.
And so the aliens must thinkthat this is a very dangerous
situation that they're veryconcerned about.
But it's just everyone's socialawkwardness to be able to, you
know, say hi to someone else inan elevator.
(33:12):
So having that and that's askill that I suck at too I'm one
of those scared looking peoplein the elevator, I guess.
But having that skill like it'slike a muscle, at least for me.
I know Once I get in a role Ican, I can do it.
But if I stop using that muscle, that like networking muscle or
(33:34):
whatever you want to call it,it just goes away pretty quickly
.
So I think that's like a justfor business owners generally,
just having that muscle likeconstantly using it.
So you can, you know, so peopleknow you and you have that.
When you go to events, you're,you're know you and you have
that.
When you go to events, you'reready to roll.
I think that's really goodadvice.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Thank you, and yeah, because I think the elevator
thing is just an example ofthings we do mindlessly, which
it's not wrong to not speak inan elevator, and maybe you've
had a bad day, maybe you've justhad a horrible argument.
Maybe you've just had ahorrible argument, maybe you
just got in bad news.
I'm not in any way suggestingthat everyone should always
(34:16):
speak in elevators, but we'vegone to the other side where
basically no one ever speaks inelevators, and so that's
something we do mindlessly.
How about, every once in awhile, maybe 20% of the time, we
say wow, I like your shoes, oryou know, you're wearing a
Creighton hat.
Are you off to the Creightongame?
Whatever, it doesn't, you don'tneed to bore these people to
death with too many questionsthat are none of your business,
(34:37):
but keep it light and it justsort of it knocks the rust off
of us, and you've mentioned it's.
It's a muscle that we have tokeep working and it's very
useful.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, I really appreciate yourtime today, andrew.
Where can folks learn moreabout APC or connect with you?
Where should folks go?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Our website is paintmagcom and, again,
everything we do, all thecontent we create, is free, um.
Subscribe to the magazine forfree, uh, and so sign up for the
magazine.
It's every other month.
Every single page deals withrunning a better painting
business.
Subscribe to the e-newsletter.
We've got a podcast.
It's, uh, it's great content.
(35:23):
And man again, daniel, I lovewhat you guys do at Bookkeeping
for Painters.
You've been on my podcast.
I love the work that you guysdo, so keep it up, man.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Hey, right back at you.
I really appreciate everythingyou do and you guys now are the
only magazine and media companythat serves just painting
contractors, right, I'm prettysure.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
That is true, and now last year was our 100th year,
which is amazing.
It blows my mind that AmericanPainting Contractor has been
around for 100 years, now 101.
But yeah, we've navigated allthe changes in media and I think
we've done that because we'vestayed very focused on our
audience, which is purelypainting contractors.
(36:09):
That's all we do, yeah awesome.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Really appreciate the wisdom today, andrew.
Uh, definitely check out apcmagazine and with that, we will
see you next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting business,from the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This is Daniel Honan, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners.
Help them know their numbersand what they mean.
Welcome to the ProfitablePainter Podcast, and today I'm
super excited to talk to AndrewDwyer.
How's it going, Andrew?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Man, Daniel, it's great.
I appreciate you inviting me on.
We play in the same sandbox.
You and I are two companies.
I think we're kindred spirits.
We have very similar goals,certainly similar attitudes.
So, yeah, thanks for having meon man.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Um, you know you're over there at apc magazine.
Could you kind of give folks anunderstanding of where you're
coming from, what you do?
I know you've had a longjourney through the painting
industry, um, and become one ofthe you know, a trusted voice
really of the painting industry.
How did that journey begin andand what are some defining
moments along the way?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I appreciate that man .
Um, yeah, amazingly, I've beenat APC.
It's largely the only job I'veever had and it's been 31 years
now, which is insane, becausewhen I started, who knew that
was going to happen?
But yeah, I was an Englishmajor, wanted to get into media,
(02:02):
applied for the job asassistant editor back when the
company was based in St Louis,started in 94 as assistant
editor, then becameeditor-in-chief, then became
publisher, which just meansyou're less involved in the
day-to-day content and moreinvolved in the overall
(02:25):
operations of the media company,as well as sales and man.
Obviously, media has changed aton.
We used to be just a magazine.
Now we're a magazine and somuch more, just like any other
media company that is still inbusiness, and so it's the weekly
newsletter, it's a podcast,it's video, social media, the
(02:45):
website, live events.
It's everywhere people expectcontent to be, is where we need
to be and we're.
You know we're a national mediacompany and our audience is
incredibly focused.
It's purely painting contractors.
That's all we do, and all ofour content is free.
(03:08):
All of our revenue is generatedvia advertising and marketing.
So it's really a huge win forpainting contractors because
we're professional media people,we're professional storytellers
.
We understand how to tell agood story, how to get in touch
(03:29):
with the right people, andthat's really what we do at APC.
It's our job to knowinteresting people who are doing
really interesting things inthe painting world, and those
are the people we write about inthe magazine and we put on the
podcast and we feature in themagazine and because of that we
attract a very loyal audience ofpainting contractors and
(03:51):
because of that we also attractadvertisers and that's how we
stay in business, daniel.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, you guys are doing great things over there at
APC.
I mean, one of the things I'mkind of curious about is, since
you've been around for threedecades now, what and you've
seen like the trends and tacticsand tech come and go, and what
do you think separates paintingcontractors who actually improve
(04:22):
their business and makeprogress as opposed to, uh,
those who kind of stay stuck,cause there was some at this,
the last PCA event, uh, therewas some statistics thrown
around like the average paintingbusiness only has, on average,
is one and a half people, uh,and that they're only in
(04:43):
business for like 18 months.
So what have you seen, you know, be the deciding factor or
factors that separate a paintingbusiness that actually grows
and progresses through the yearsas opposed to staying stuck or
quitting early?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Love that question, daniel.
Great question, insightfulquestion.
So I think the problem or thechallenge hasn't changed over
the years.
Meaning the challenge is youneed to want to get better as a
business owner, in this case, asa painting contractor.
You have to have that curiosity, that drive to get better, and
(05:23):
I don't think that has changedover the years.
What has changed dramaticallyis how you can solve that
problem.
It's so much easier to availyourself of resources.
It's so much easier to connectwith contractors across the
country.
There's so many resources outthere.
(05:44):
But the simple, direct answer toyour question is I think the
dividing line is drive anddesire and curiosity.
And so you know lots of peoplelike to talk about how many
painting contractors are therein the country and you know, is
it 200,000?
Is it a million?
A lot of those paintingcontractors don't think they
(06:05):
need any help, and that's okay.
I mean, if they're happy,that's great.
Then you don't need any help.
If you're happy, you'resatisfied that you're charting
your course and you're drivingyour business, and your business
isn't driving you, heck yeah,you don't need any help.
But there's also so many peoplewho are like what's going on?
This isn't why you heck yeah,you don't need any help.
(06:26):
But there's also so many peoplewho are like what's going on?
This isn't why I got intobusiness.
It's got to be better than this.
It's got to be easier than this.
What am I doing wrong?
Acknowledging, like man,there's got to be more to it.
This isn't why I signed up.
So, acknowledging the problem,why don't?
I don't feel good and thengoing to the next level of you
know what?
(06:46):
I'm going to do something aboutthis.
That's.
That's what's wonderful.
I think that mindset of thingscan be better, being coachable,
having the mindset that you knowwhat.
There are better options andbetter ideas out there.
I just need to go find them andI'm going to go find them.
Options and better ideas outthere, I just need to go find
them and I'm going to go findthem.
(07:06):
I think that's.
And so, whether you, whetheryou listen to podcasts which
again is like a lot of peoplewould never listen to a podcast
because they just don't thinkthey need it why would I listen
to a painting podcast?
I'm already a painter, I don'tneed to know how to paint, but I
think the I don't want to saythe best among us because, again
, if you're not curious and youare happy, excellent, good for
(07:27):
you.
But if you are curious, if youhave that fire burn inside that,
oh, I wonder if things could bebetter.
That's fabulous and go out andyou seek the resources, because
there's so many resources outthere.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
There's a lot of folks I talkedto a lot of painting businesses
over the last nine years andthere's definitely some folks
where they're very kind ofresistant to accepting feedback.
And I get it, because that'ssometimes I am as well like I.
(08:04):
You know, if, especially ifwe're talking about accounting
or something like that, I'm anaccountant, I've been an
accountant for years why are youtelling me how I should run my
accounting firm or whatever?
So I kind of get it open towhat you have to.
You know, recommendations thatI would have and seem really
(08:28):
coachable and more open to andhumble really, which is, you
know, if you've been in thetrades or as a painting
contractor for years and yearsand you're humble enough to
accept that feedback, thoserecommendations, I think that's
a huge thing and you might, youknow, not all the
(08:50):
recommendations you get aregoing to be good, but I think
being open to it can lead youdown a road that you might hey
learn something and be able totake that and run with it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Daniel, one of my favorite phrases is it takes
courage to be humble, because toput yourself in that position
to acknowledge there's somethingI'm missing, there's something
I don't know, there's somethingI could learn, and, in a way,
sort of submit yourself that youknow, yes, I'm going to seek
out others who might be able tohelp me.
That's humility, and it takescourage to be humble and 100%.
(09:25):
That's what being coachablemeans, and certainly in the
world of accounting.
Yes, there are some paintingcontractors out there who are
just really fluid and keen onnumbers and finances and all of
that, but most of them aren't,and so that should be a known
blind spot or weakness for themajority of painting contractors
(09:47):
.
There's a lot about financethat I probably don't know, and
you know what.
I'm going to go out and I'mgoing to get myself an
accountant and I'm going to behumble and say what do I don't
know?
Look at these numbers, whatdon't I know?
What am I missing?
And that's why it's got to be.
You're almost like a counselor,I think, when you're in
accounting, daniel, becauseyou've got to share some bad
(10:11):
news to some of thesecontractors, or what they may
perceive as bad news, like herewas your quarterly gross profit
Solid, but here's why and how itcould be better.
And if the contractor is nothumble and lacks the courage to
hear what he might think is badnews, he or she's going to have
(10:36):
a hard time growing.
I know there's something I'mmissing, daniel.
That's why I brought you on.
I'm ready to take my medicine.
Hit me with the bad news, Iwould guess, daniel.
That's why I brought you on.
I'm ready to take my medicine.
Hit me with the bad news, right, wouldn't you?
I would guess, daniel, thatthose are the clients that you
love working with the most whowere like okay, I'm ready, man,
tell me what I did wrong.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Right, yeah, absolutely yeah, it's it.
Uh, I mean, I guess I'm used todelivering bad news, um well,
and I don't even think it wasbad news anymore, I think I'm I
kind of get excited when I find,okay, here's the problems,
because I feel like we can fixthem once you know.
(11:17):
It's hard to fix a problem, youdon't know what's going on, but
if you know what the problem is, then you, then it's just a
matter of implementing thesolution.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yep, so in my mind, it's not a problem, it's an
opportunity.
It's another one of thosephrases.
I love that you can roll youreyes at that.
This isn't a problem, it's anopportunity.
Every opportunity starts out asa problem, but once you solve
it, it's an opportunity.
And I think I also love thisidea of confidence versus
(11:49):
arrogance.
Where confidence is this beliefin yourself that I can do it.
I can fix this, I'm up to thetask.
I can rise to the challenge,the burdens and the barriers and
the obstacles that I'mcurrently facing.
Whatever I'm going to lean intoit.
The only way out is through,and so I'm going to lean in.
(12:11):
I have the confidence I can dothat.
Arrogance is where you think allof those same things, but I
don't need anybody's help.
I know better than everyoneelse.
I don't need their help, nobodycan help me.
I know better than everyoneelse.
I don't need their help, nobodycan help me.
Confidence comes from like agrowth mindset.
Arrogance comes from a scarcitymindset, where you're skeptical
(12:35):
and uptight and think the worstof people.
I mean, that's really what thedefinition of a scarcity or a
paucity mindset is that there'snot much business out there,
there's not much success.
I need to grab it and hold iton.
And I think that's why, whenyou attend events in this
(12:55):
industry whether they're PCAevents or anybody's event
learning how to network, havingthat courage and the humility to
to meet new people, to behonest, to to learn what they're
doing, that's, um, that's theconfidence that the world can
help you get better, becausethere's just so many great
people out there who lovesharing their story, who want to
hear your story.
(13:15):
That's how we grow together.
I know I sound like a I don'tknow a Dale Carnegie tape, but
it's just, that's just.
I believe in that, like um.
Now I'm also 55 and it's takenme a long time to get to here,
to develop as much faith as Inow have in people.
(13:36):
Um, and now it's a wonderfulthing.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, I like the, the way you described confidence
versus, um, arrogance, like the.
I've never heard it describedlike that before, but it makes
sense.
And uh, I'm just reflecting.
I'm also feel like this ispartly a therapy session, Cause
I feel like sometimes I'marrogant and like, yeah, that
(14:00):
makes sense we all are, ofcourse.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, that's.
I think that's the beauty ofmindfulness, which to me simply
means I mean, if you're intomeditation, great.
Personally I don't meditate,but that doesn't mean I'm not
mindful.
Mindfulness just means beinghumble, being objective.
You know how did I do today?
How did I handle that situation?
(14:23):
I'm coachable, which means insome cases I can coach myself.
I can say, man, the way I justinteracted with my wife was BS.
She must think I'm a jackass.
So I need to be humble toacknowledge that I failed, and
that's how you then improve.
(14:43):
To me, that's what mindfulnessis.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So I guess, in your experience, what do you think
business owners that struggle tobe coachable?
How should they start shiftingthat mindset?
Should it just be a mindfulnessthing like to to try to catch
yourself when you get into thosethose traps of thinking in
(15:12):
scarcity instead of growth?
Is that kind of the way to todo a 180 from being not
coachable to someone's coachable?
That's growth oriented again.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Daniel, I think I love that question because you
really dialed it down to thecore, like, okay, I'm buying
into this idea, but now what doI do?
I'm a big believer inaccountability coaches.
We can't all hire businesscoaches and we can't all hire
consultants.
But there's this idea that ifyou say it out loud, it becomes
(15:47):
real.
If you tell somebody, itbecomes real.
If you tell people, you knowwhat?
I'm going to read 20 books thisyear.
The more people you tell, themore likely you are to do it,
because you put it out therethat people know.
And now there's this likepositive pressure and of course,
again there's negative pressureand there's positive pressure,
like, okay, I've told people,I'm going to do this, I need to
(16:07):
do it.
And it can start with just anaccountability coach, whether
it's a fellow paintingcontractor, a friend, it could
be a spouse, I think.
Ideally it's another paintingcontractor, and you just agree
to meet once a month or everytwo months.
And so when you see that onyour calendar that, oh, two
(16:28):
weeks from now I got to meetwith Daniel, and of course the
whole point of that meeting isto keep each other accountable,
I better get to work, areblessed with the ability.
We're just type A and we justget stuff done and we don't need
(16:48):
reminders and we don't needanybody to crack the whip and we
don't need a trainer at the gym, we just go.
Man, that's not me, that's notmost of us.
So, yeah, just start with uswith just one friend who you can
, who can become anaccountability coach and help
keep each other in line.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
It's incredibly effective coach and help keep
each other in line.
It's incredibly effective.
Yeah, no coaches.
And I've, just over the lastfew years, uh, I ran, I guess
kind of ironically, since I'm asemi coach, but, uh, you know,
accounting coach I guess.
But um, just over the last fewyears I've really bought into
(17:26):
the coach ideal because I have atendency to think I can just do
it all myself.
They're the arrogance thing itpops up again.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
That's confidence, man, that's not arrogance.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
But over the last few years I've been really, you
know know, spending a lot oncoaches helping me get better on
things.
And you know it can be scary to, to put you know, some put
money down and actually investin that thing if you're not used
(18:00):
to it and uh, you know.
But it can really open up yourmind and just speed up your
learning so much when you'reworking with, especially with,
somebody who has done it before.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Yeah, that's a great point.
You know, one quirky thing thatI started doing maybe two years
ago, is on the topic ofmindfulness, which, again, I
think unlocks.
This is like a superpower themore aware you can be of the
things that you do mindlessly,which we all do.
So it's not about being morestressed or more like why did I
(18:37):
do that?
It's just about being morepresent and aware that when I
would approach and I know thisis not just me when I would
approach a stop sign or afour-way stop or a three-way
stop, I think we all tend totreat that as like a race, like
if, uh-oh, two cars areapproaching at the same time,
I'm going to make sure I getthere first because I want to go
(18:59):
first.
Granted, some of us are blessedand they're super chill and we
don't worry about that stuff andwe're zen, but I think a lot of
us just naturally get sucked into this, this idea that there's
a competition at the four waystop and by god, I'm not going
to lose this competition.
And it occurred to me like, whatam I doing?
This is, this is I'm justcreating stress in my day and I
(19:23):
just don't need it because it'sso unimportant.
And so then, when I startedapproaching four-way stops, I
would actually be aware of thatand and and then I would
actually like slow down and I'dbe like you know what, I'm not
gonna get sucked into this andyes, I'm gonna let you go first
and look at me, I'm such a greatguy because I let you go first
(19:43):
and I didn't.
I can't lose because I'm notplaying, which makes me a winner
.
So, and it sounds so corny, andI guess in a way, it is corny,
but oh my God, it was soeffective, because I find myself
at stop signs all the time, andso that was, you know, three,
five, eight times a day I havethis sort of built-in
(20:05):
mindfulness check that wouldjust lower my heart rate a
little bit instead of elevatingit, and remind me, you know,
let's choose wisely when weengage and when we turn up the
pressure, and this is not one ofthem.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
That's interesting.
You're anchoring yourmindfulness to something that
happens that throughout the day,uh, which is pretty cool.
I it's kind of like uh remindsme of atomic habits, like habit
stacking, yeah yeah where you,if you want to add a new habit
(20:43):
to your routine, you just pick ahabit that you already do, like
brushing your teeth every,every night, and then just
stacking your habit on top ofthat brushing your teeth thing.
That's what it reminds me of.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
I think that's a good idea it's a great, that's a
great, uh great way to relate it.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, you're right um now, um Now, with this change
changing your coachability, yourmindset.
I know that change is prettyhard, especially when running a
business.
Whenever we're trying to changesomething in bookkeeping for
painters, it's not just decidingon how you're going to change,
(21:24):
but it's also changing theorganization and everyone's
habits within the organizationand it's uh, it's usually a pain
, a huge pain, to to do any kindof change, because there's
always all this pushback andpeople get grumpy over the
change and uh, it's hard, tohard, to get everybody on the
(21:44):
same page.
But do you have so it's, it'shard enough to do it for
yourself, like individually, butthen when you talk about trying
to change other people as well,it's like just adds a
exponential component to it.
What advice do you givepainting contractors who want to
implement improvements withoutoverwhelming themselves or their
(22:06):
teams?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Yeah, man, ever, ever .
Everything requires a plan.
Um, I love the concept of uh,like a lot of times people to
talk about a quarterback, abouthow the game was too fast or you
know, the game is so slow forthem, meaning they've got a
presence of mine in the pocketand it may seem like there's a
lot going on, but to thisquarterback the game is just
slow, meaning nothing rattlesthis quarterback and they can
(22:34):
see things unfolding.
How do we do that?
How do we get to that point?
It's through preparation andplanning.
If you're going to run amarathon, you've got to know
what your goals are.
What is your mile pace?
You've got to check your pace.
Am I on target?
Am I off target?
And the same is true aboutimplementing change.
(22:55):
Take a breath, figure it out.
Certainly, one mistake is toomuch change at once.
You know businesses reallyshouldn't incorporate more than
one significant process change,probably per quarter or maybe
per half, because you're justgoing to overwhelm your people.
(23:18):
If there's too much change, youas a leader, as a manager,
you're not going to be able tomanage that much change.
So be reasonable, be modest.
Like what can I reasonablyexpect to accomplish this
quarter and then draw up theplan and then, when it's time to
talk to your team, you bettershow up to that meeting 15, 30
(23:40):
minutes early.
You don't want to be rushed.
You got to clear your head.
You need to be a clear glass ofwater, which is another phrase
I love.
You got to be at peace.
You can't be rattled.
You have to have clear vision.
So that's it.
Don't try to do too much Planand prep.
And then, ideally, you reallygot to have a good management
(24:02):
team around you, because if weneed to be coachable, but we
also have to have coaches, andso everybody should have a
management team.
And you rely on that managementteam and say, look, here's what
I'm thinking, here's what I'mgoing to do, what do you think?
And you know it's the leader'sjob to make the decision, but
it's also the leader's job toaccept input and hear the input
(24:25):
of others.
So you surround yourself with agood team who understands what
you're trying to accomplish, bepatient, listen to their
feedback, give it seriousconsideration, let it ground you
and then, yeah, you can.
There's so much change that youcan accomplish when you're
grounded and you've got the planin place.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
This reminds me of coming back from, like the PCca
event was, uh, the big one.
The expo was in february.
I had like over a thousandfolks there, really great event.
Uh, there was so many greatpresenters, great information it
was.
It was like drinking through afire hose really.
(25:06):
And you know, I feel likeprobably a lot of people came
out of that with, you know, notjust one or two things, but
maybe 10 or 20 things that theywanted to change in their
business.
So sometimes the change is hardand if we're only doing one at
a time, you really have to makesure that you are picking the
(25:26):
right thing to change and whatto focus on, what to change
first.
Do you have any thoughts on howto prioritize?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Well, I mean, I think I mean that's the answer you
have to prioritize, and I thinkthat's what a lot of people
don't do.
And so you know, I'm a bigbeliever and like I would make
my kids watch Apollo 13 becausethis idea of you know, we're
going to work the problem andlet's not panic, let's not make
things worse by guessing right,you've got that massive failure
(26:00):
up in space.
But we're going to.
We're facing a challenge noneof us have really prepared for
and we're not exactly trainedfor it, but we are generally
trained for it.
And that's what we're notexactly trained for it, but we
are generally trained for it.
And that's what we're going todo.
We're going to keep our headand we're going to solve this
problem.
It's going to be our greatest.
What?
What some thought would be ourworst?
Um, failure, it's going to beour greatest achievement.
(26:21):
And so, yes, when you go to anexpo, uh, when you listen to a
podcast that covers a ton ofideas and you write down 20 of
them and your head starts torace like, oh, my god, what
should I do?
What should again, you, yougotta?
There's a ton of great ideasthat you will not get to and so
(26:42):
make.
Take good notes.
At an event like that, put itaway, come back a week later,
look at it with fresh eyesthere's going to be one or two
or three things that jump out atyou.
And I think that because thisagain the idea of like recency
bias in the heat of the moment,if you're at like an annual
convention like that, like PCAExpo, it is overwhelming.
(27:05):
And so your job there is justto collect all these ideas and
write them down and then leaveand let there be space and then
come back when you've had achance to relax, take another
look, and then it's justnaturally one or two or three
things are going to bubble uplike okay, those are the most
important, those are the bestideas, and and and we all have
(27:28):
to remember that there's somegreat ideas, but we're just not
going to get to them yet, andthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, I think that's right.
You know, going to these events, my notepad's always full and
it's like what do I do first?
Kind of give it some space,come back the next week, open
that notebook again and itstarts to be clear, I think.
I think giving it some timeCause whenever I ask, I always
(27:58):
ask this question when I seefolks at the event is like
what's your big takeaway so far?
Or like, and oftentimes like Ithink I get a blank stare like
it's just too much, I don't know, but uh, it's hard to, uh to
process all that, but uh, cool,um, do you have it?
(28:20):
So we've kind of, we've kind oftouched on a lot of topics.
We talked about being coachable, like mindset, like what's your
mindset?
Your growth mindset should be,which includes being coachable,
being open to things so that youcan learn more and progress.
And then we also talked aboutchange, like how to implement
(28:43):
change for yourself but also foryour business.
You know, getting that buy-infrom your team so that, in not
trying to implement too much allat once, what are the things
have you seen through your yearsbeing in the painting industry?
What are the things do youthink are are key for painting
(29:05):
business owners to to have thatgrowth mentality to, to be able
to, to lead their businesses tothe next level.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So I I think, um, I think a lot about, and I talk a
lot about um, cause I also dosome keynote speaking, um, and,
and that usually takes two forms.
One is simply, you know,addressing people early on in
the convention and just tryingto get everybody on the same
page.
What does success look like?
What are we trying toaccomplish here?
(29:34):
And a big part of that iscreating a team mentality that
you're not just here by yourself.
We're all in the same businesshere, and each of our individual
growth at this event andindividual success at this event
is absolutely tied to everybodyelse here, and so there has to
(29:56):
be this sharing, thiswillingness to share, and so it
doesn't matter how introvertedor extroverted you are, we're
all here to meet new people, andso we're going to introduce
ourselves, we're going to saywhat do you do?
Because, guess what?
We all know we paint.
And so let's ask thosequestions and let's you know we,
(30:20):
the, the.
The phrase servant leader, Ithink, is a, is a wonderful
concept.
That, because it really sort ofdrives me on the point that,
yes, I'm the leader of mycompany, I'm the boss, but
that's not an award, right, it'snot a reward, it's not the
culmination of something.
It comes with a responsibility.
(30:41):
Like I have the responsibilityand the opportunity to improve
these people's lives, includingmy own life, including the life
of my family, and I'm going totake that seriously.
And so I know I'm getting alittle far field, daniel, but to
me, that's what it's all aboutis staying humble, being curious
(31:02):
, asking people what they do.
I did a TEDx talk and that wasthe entire point of the TEDx
talk was speaking to strangersfor 10 seconds, because it can
change the way you view theworld.
Tell me about you.
What do you do?
Building that little minibridge?
Because you get a hit ofendorphin that like wow, that
(31:27):
was, that was fun, or he wasfunny, or I made that person
laugh, and it just, it just pepsyou up for a brief second, it
gives you a little more energyin the middle of the day and it
it creates muscle memory, right,and so that when you go to the
event, you are better able tonetwork.
(31:47):
And since the whole point atleast one of my points from the
beginning of this podcast wasthat we need to avail ourselves
of resources such as people, wehave to network, we have to be
comfortable talking to otherpeople.
What do you do?
What's your biggest challenge?
How was your year last year?
And then listen to their ideas.
How was your year last year?
And then listen to their ideas.
(32:08):
And, of course, at this point,daniel, I've completely
forgotten what your question was, because I'm so high on my high
horse I can't even rememberwhat it was.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
No, just other things for painting contractors to get
that growth, growth mindsetwhich you did.
Answer the question, um, inyour, in your tedx talk that you
did.
Uh, the?
The intro is funny becauseyou're like, you know, if aliens
were to come down and look athumans and then see them in
elevators, they would think thatelevators were really dangerous
.
Because whenever people get into an elevator they're very just
(32:50):
.
They should kind of shut downsocially and just like stare at
the floor and just like don'tmove or talk or anything.
And so the aliens must thinkthat this is a very dangerous
situation that they're veryconcerned about.
But it's just everyone's socialawkwardness to be able to, you
know, say hi to someone else inan elevator.
(33:12):
So having that and that's askill that I suck at too I'm one
of those scared looking peoplein the elevator, I guess.
But having that skill like it'slike a muscle, at least for me.
I know Once I get in a role Ican, I can do it.
But if I stop using that muscle, that like networking muscle or
(33:34):
whatever you want to call it,it just goes away pretty quickly
.
So I think that's like a justfor business owners generally,
just having that muscle likeconstantly using it.
So you can, you know, so peopleknow you and you have that.
When you go to events, you're,you're know you and you have
that.
When you go to events, you'reready to roll.
I think that's really goodadvice.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Thank you, and yeah, because I think the elevator
thing is just an example ofthings we do mindlessly, which
it's not wrong to not speak inan elevator, and maybe you've
had a bad day, maybe you've justhad a horrible argument.
Maybe you've just had ahorrible argument, maybe you
just got in bad news.
I'm not in any way suggestingthat everyone should always
(34:16):
speak in elevators, but we'vegone to the other side where
basically no one ever speaks inelevators, and so that's
something we do mindlessly.
How about, every once in awhile, maybe 20% of the time, we
say wow, I like your shoes, oryou know, you're wearing a
Creighton hat.
Are you off to the Creightongame?
Whatever, it doesn't, you don'tneed to bore these people to
death with too many questionsthat are none of your business,
(34:37):
but keep it light and it justsort of it knocks the rust off
of us, and you've mentioned it's.
It's a muscle that we have tokeep working and it's very
useful.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, I really appreciate yourtime today, andrew.
Where can folks learn moreabout APC or connect with you?
Where should folks go?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Our website is paintmagcom and, again,
everything we do, all thecontent we create, is free, um.
Subscribe to the magazine forfree, uh, and so sign up for the
magazine.
It's every other month.
Every single page deals withrunning a better painting
business.
Subscribe to the e-newsletter.
We've got a podcast.
It's, uh, it's great content.
(35:23):
And man again, daniel, I lovewhat you guys do at Bookkeeping
for Painters.
You've been on my podcast.
I love the work that you guysdo, so keep it up, man.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Hey, right back at you.
I really appreciate everythingyou do and you guys now are the
only magazine and media companythat serves just painting
contractors, right, I'm prettysure.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
That is true, and now last year was our 100th year,
which is amazing.
It blows my mind that AmericanPainting Contractor has been
around for 100 years, now 101.
But yeah, we've navigated allthe changes in media and I think
we've done that because we'vestayed very focused on our
audience, which is purelypainting contractors.
(36:09):
That's all we do, yeah awesome.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Really appreciate the wisdom today, andrew.
Uh, definitely check out apcmagazine and with that, we will
see you next week.
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