October 3, 2025 • 28 mins
Ready to go from startup chaos to a self-running painting business in under a year? In this powerhouse episode of the Profitable Painter Podcast, we sit down with Jordan, a painting business owner from Virginia who skyrocketed from $0 to over $360,000 in his first year and is on track to double that in year two.
He pulls back the curtain on the messy beginnings, the costly mistakes, and the exact mindset and operational shifts that unlocked rapid growth. If you're in the trenches, trying to do it all, and feeling overwhelmed, this is the playbook you need.
You’ll learn how to:
- Stop the Shiny Object Chase: Why saying "no" to every opportunity was the #1 key to finding profitability and focus.
- Pivot from Painter to CEO: How Jordan transitioned from doing all the work himself to building a team that ran the business for 3 weeks WITHOUT him.
- Double Your Monthly Revenue: The strategic hiring (an appointment setter + W2 painters) that took him from $25k to $60k per month.
- Build Systems That Scale: How he used ChatGPT, industry friends, and consultants to create bulletproof processes his team actually follows.
- Master the Sub vs. Employee Debate: Why he uses a 60/40 model and how he treats his subs like exclusive team members.
- Create a Business That Gives You Freedom: The exact steps he took to leave for a 3-week military training (and now a 2-week vacation) with total confidence his business would thrive without him.
If you're struggling with wearing all the hats, booking out too far, or unsure how to hire your first team, Jordan’s real-world, no-BS journey is packed with actionable lessons.
Key Takeaways:
- The "Rule of 3" for diagnosing your sales and production bottlenecks.
- How to prepare your team to operate seamlessly when you're completely unreachable.
- Why niching down to residential repaint & cabinets was a game-changer.
- The marketing mix (Facebook Ads, SEO, LSAs) that consistently fills his pipeline.
- His top advice for new owners: Get involved in the community and leverage both free and paid resources.
If you enjoyed this conversation, hit that SUBSCRIBE button for more weekly strategies on mastering your numbers, boosting profits, and building a business that works for you!
For being a loyal listener, I want to send you a copy of my new book Profitable Painter. Inside, I’ll show you the exact frameworks that have helped painting businesses save big on taxes, increase profits, and scale with confidence
Head over to profitablepaintercpa.com/book and grab your copy today. Don’t wait — this is my gift to you for being part of the Profitable Painter community.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple: to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running, and stealing
a professional paintingbusiness.
From the brushes and ladders tothe spreadsheets and balance
sheets, we've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice, specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
Let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
I'm super excited today to haveJordan.
(01:04):
He has an amazing paintingbusiness up in Virginia.
I'm excited to jump into thingswith him today.
Welcome to the podcast, Jordan.
How's it going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Uh it's going well.
I'm excited to talk about thebusiness and see where this
thing goes.
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
Awesome.
Well, it just to give listenersan idea of where you're coming
from, could you give us an ideaof how you got started in the
painting industry?
What's been your journey alongthe way?
Maybe some major milestones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Sure.
So I started my paintingbusiness back in June of 2024.
So technically I'm still astartup.
Um I have about seven years inthe construction industry,
primarily coming from thecommercial industry where I
built data centers up innorthern Virginia.
And then uh relocated.
Um had a daughter and a family.
So we relocated back home toRichmond, Virginia.
(01:57):
Um, and I worked and did someresidential construction,
building multifamily homes.
Uh, did that for a little while,and then decided I want to step
out of my own uh to start abusiness.
Um, so I started a paintingbusiness.
Um, I have a couple of buddiesin the industry, and it seemed
like a good industry to getinto, um, being that I had a
pretty diverse background in thecommercial world, project
(02:20):
management estimating.
Um, so I thought I'd be a goodfit um to be a good business
owner for a small business.
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
And so what sort of services are you providing in
the painting industry?
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So we when I first started, interestingly, I I was
gonna start a painting andrenovation company.
Um I realized quickly that Iwould never be successful if I
try to do it all and GCeverything.
Um, so I niched down prettyquickly within the first month
to just painting.
So we do interior painting,exterior painting, and cabinet
(02:58):
refinishing.
And it's primarily interior andcabinet uh refinishing focused.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
And this is residential repaint pretty
exclusively or exclusively?
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Yep, residential repaint um fairly exclusively.
Um I've done a little like fitout small commercial work, um,
but we don't gear ouradvertising toward towards that
yet.
Um, that's something I'd like todabble in in the future, but
right now it's mainly focused oninterior residential work, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
Okay, gotcha.
So mostly interior and cabinets,and so you've been in business
for a little over one year,right?
And that first year is usuallythe roughest.
So could you um and just uhthinking back to my first year
(03:50):
and running a painting business,uh, it's it's giving me cold
sweat right now, just thinkingof it.
But uh how how has the firstyear been?
Like what have some been somemajor challenges that you faced
in the first year?
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, so when when I started the business, I didn't
start like as a painter.
I'm not a painter by trade.
Um, and I came from kind of thewhite collarslash blue-collar
background where I was doingproject management.
I was wearing a suit and tie towork pretty much, uh, collared
shirts.
Um, so I started this businessand I realized quickly that I
(04:26):
needed to make money.
Um, and I needed to make adecent amount of money because I
had a family.
Um, so I started doing work forlike side jobs and smaller jobs,
uh, doing everything myself,advertising, marketing, um, and
the work.
And like I said, I'm not apainter.
So it took a long time to dosmall jobs.
Um, they weren't profitable, andit and it was terrible for I
(04:50):
don't know, the first twomonths.
Um and then I went down the pathof kind of chasing every shiny
object, right?
When you start a new business,everyone wants to call you, your
phone's going off the hook, andit's not clients, it's it's
marketing companies, it's angis,it's next door, it's lead gen uh
people calling you.
(05:10):
Um, so I did I got caught in theAngie leads for a little while,
did a couple lead services, um,and it it didn't really work out
too well for for me personally.
Um, the leads I were gettingweren't weren't super great.
Um, and then I finally paired upwith a real marketing company um
and I started getting realleads, so I started getting real
(05:32):
reps in and started landingsubstantial work um to where I
couldn't do it myself anymore.
Um so I started subcontractingwork out um through a few
subcontract partners um to getmore work, get the workflow
going, and keep up with the workI was getting.
Um, but it was messy, man.
(05:53):
It was that first six months wasso messy, I had no systems, um
my processes weren't there, thethe sales were there, the
marketing was there, and yeah,it was bad for the first six
months or so.
SPEAKER_02 (06:08):
So what do you feel like was the big unlock?
Like what happened after sixmonths that that changed things
and started getting thingsmoving in the right direction?
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Yeah, so I started saying no a lot more to every
single opportunity.
I stopped doing anything thathad to do with renovations or
like quoting that.
Um if it was a large exteriorand I knew I couldn't handle it,
I would say, hey, you know, I'msorry, we can't handle this work
at this time.
Um so I started saying no more.
Um I hired that marketing umcompany and they also did
(06:41):
consulting as well.
Um and they kind of put me onthe right path to, hey, this is
what you should be focusing on.
You should be niching down, youshould be systems and ops
focused and not trying to doeverything yourself.
Um so as soon as I startedimplementing that, little
changes at a time, um, I startedto get my time back and was able
to give these clients a betterexperience and then give myself
(07:04):
more time to develop these SOPsand systems to make us
profitable and do more jobs.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
That's that's awesome.
I love the, you know, youstarted saying no more, and that
that was what really made thechange on on what how things
were going.
And uh I forgot who said this,but basically saying no is like
saying yes to the thing that youpromised yourself you're gonna
do.
So you were saying no to theremodeling and the side jobs,
(07:35):
and you you basically every timeyou said no to those things,
you're saying yes to residentialinterior and residential
cabinets, and I know you just dosome exterior as well, but kind
of staying focused on thatstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Yeah, and I took a I took a step back and I kept
getting all this work and I wasgetting about six, seven, eight
weeks booked out.
Um and and I came to like acrossroads like, hey, like the
subcontracting model's great,um, but it's not really what I
wanted to do.
I wanted to run my own teams.
Um, so about that seven,eight-month mark is when I
(08:10):
started hiring um like W-2Painters.
I hired an appointment setter tohandle all my appointments and
my calendar.
Um, and just doing those twolittle things right there gave
me so much more time and doubledthe amount of work I was booking
and producing each month.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
So what where were you?
So about eight months in, youhired your employee painters.
How many employee painters didyou hire at that point?
SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
I hired one to start.
Um, and then I hired another onemaybe a week and a half later.
Um, I never stopped you know thehiring process.
I just want to make sure I hadthe right people on the right
seats.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
And and then you also get that appointment setter
so that they can answer phonecalls, call leads that come that
came in.
Are we doing Facebook uh metaadvertising?
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Or yeah, I do a lot of Facebook ads.
Um SEO website, so we get a fewleads from there.
Um and then we're gonna startlaunching our LSA ads here soon
to get more leads coming in.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (09:18):
So you said that that eight-month mark, you
started doubling the amount ofwork that you were producing.
What was that number at, likeeight months in?
So pre-eight months or likeright at eight months.
Or like in that time frame whenyou started doubling, what what
was that revenue that you weredoubling?
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Sure.
Yeah, so I started, I was doingabout 20 to 25,000 a month um
producing and selling.
Um, then eight months, aboutthat eight-month mark until now,
which we're at like month 14 ofthe business, we've been selling
between 50 and 60,000 a month.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
15, 60,000 per month.
That's awesome.
So you're you basically wentfrom like a a business that does
around 300,000 per year to abusiness that does like 600,000
plus per year.
So that that's that's amazing.
That's a very quick change.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Yeah, we my first year in business, so from June
to June, we did right over360,000.
Um, and then January one of thisyear, right, is when I kind of
knew what I was doing a littlebit, right?
I still don't I feel like Idon't know what I'm doing
sometimes, but I knew I was onthe right path because I tried
everything that first six toeight months, and I found what I
(10:43):
liked, what I didn't like, um,but now I know what I like and
kind of how to do things.
Um, so I really hammered in onmarketing ad spend um to hit the
goal of five to six hundred thisyear, which I think we're on
track to do.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
That's that's great growth.
That's amazing.
The basically on track to donearly, nearly 100% growth.
Um, so that's that's greatstuff.
And you know, one of the thingsuh you mentioned was you were
you started with subcontractors,but then you switched to
employees.
Are you completely employeemodel now, or do you still use
(11:21):
subs?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
We still use subs.
It's about 6040 uh W-2 versussub.
Um, but I'm very it's not just Idon't just use any sub.
I use one or two subs, andthat's it.
And so much so that they'reexclusive uh to me, essentially.
So they're kind of likeemployees.
(11:42):
I know we can't say that rightthere.
They still are 1099 contractors,um, but they don't do much side
work, right?
So it feels like they're membersof the team uh just as much as
my W-2 team.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
And did you I guess making that switch to employees,
um, what was the thinking there?
Like, why did you make theswitch?
And then has it brought has itbeen a good change from going
from subs to employees?
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
Yeah, so the sub model was great.
Um, like I said, it it startedmy business, it got me going.
Um, and then I started booking.
I was booking two months out,and it was either I go ahead and
start interviewing more subs andfind these trusted partners
again, or kind of build thatbrand and team that I wanted to
do anyway.
So I was like, well, now's theperfect time.
(12:35):
I'll I'll build a small team andwe'll start doing jobs uh with
that team, and we can grow thatteam a lot easier once that
foundation's set and thoseprocesses have set.
Um, so that's why I did it.
I made sure I was about eightweeks booked out.
I took four of those weeks andinstantly had work for my W-2
employees.
Um, and then I increased my adspend and then kept both both
(12:59):
crews busy um ever since.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
So you you kind of was that uh booking eight weeks
out, was that intentional inpreparation for hiring
employees, or was that just kindof where you were and you just
took advantage of that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
It was it was semi-intentional.
I think I I don't remember theexact decision, but I think I
wanted more work anyway.
Um and it just kind of naturallyhappened when when you're
booking, especially bigger jobs,it's like okay, well, there's a
week, that's only one job.
Um, but I was landing three,four jobs a week, so my
(13:37):
production was not keeping upwith um the work that was coming
in.
So I I had to make a decisioneither hire or sub out more
work.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Okay.
So you you're at eight weeks,which eight weeks is is for
residential repayment.
That's a little bit high.
So that that was definitelyindicating that you needed some
more capacity for sure.
So you just went with, okay, I'mgonna go with employees instead
of continuing continuing downthe subcontractor route.
Um and at this point, what howfar are you booked out now?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Right now we're about five weeks booked out with
two crews.
Um actually probably eight weeksbooked out because there's a lot
in the pipeline um that clientsare not in a rush to paint or
they want to do it in the thewinter um or even early spring
month.
So the jobs are there, and I'mkind of at another crossroads on
(14:30):
uh if I want to hire more peopleor not.
SPEAKER_02 (14:33):
So yeah, definitely sounds like you you have uh have
you ever heard of the rule ofthree?
I had so it's uh it's actually Ithink it was podcasts I recorded
um with Tara Riley out of theAcademy for Professional
Painting Contractors.
(14:53):
She she's a uh I don't know ifshe came up with this rule of
three, but this is the person Iheard it from, um, which I
really love it.
And it's basically you want tobe able to respond to a new lead
coming in within three minutes.
Like if a you have a Facebooklead that comes in, you want to
(15:14):
be able to reach out and callthem within three minutes, which
it sounds like you have anappointment center that does
that.
So that's that's great.
Then the next rule is once youget that appointment scheduled,
you want to be out thereproviding an estimate or
proposal within three days.
So you'll need to have enoughsalespeople to to be available
(15:38):
within 72 hours of that league,you know, coming in, and you can
actually get to their home toprovide that in-house
consultation.
And then the last one is threeweeks from when they when you
close the job, three weeks toproduction, assuming that they
want it done.
You know, you know, like youmentioned, sometimes people just
want it done later or orwhatever, the winter and you
(16:00):
can't paint outside.
But uh generally, if folks wantit done, you can produce it
within three weeks.
And that's the the rule of threeto basically give you an idea of
do I have enough of a team toyou know produce the work that's
coming in or the the them tomeet the demand that's coming
(16:21):
in.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Yeah, it's a good rule.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
It's a good rule.
Yeah, I I like it.
So it's it's um it sounds likeyou're potentially you know uh a
little low on on the cruiseside, and if you hired more, you
might be able to produce thatrevenue more quickly and
actually, you know, uh hit yoursix hundred thousand dollar uh
(16:45):
your year goal that you have, ormaybe even surpass it.
Um cool.
So we talked about basically inthe first six months it was
chaos.
You were doing everythingyourself, you were you weren't
focused, you got more focused,you started saying no and
(17:06):
focusing on the things that youwanted to do, which was interior
and exterior, interior andcabinet, primarily in some
exterior residential work.
And then things started to takeoff uh once you started
focusing, and you're using thesubcom contractor model, kind of
pivoted slightly to moreemployees, and you're able to
(17:27):
ramp up production and in anddouble the amount of uh work
that you're producing eachmonth.
Um what what are kind of arethere any other big challenges
that you faced over the lastyear or so?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Yeah, there's been a lot of big challenges.
Um trying to think of some somekey ones that stick out to me.
Um yeah, the biggest challenge,so I'm in the National Guard as
well.
Um, so that takes up a decentamount of my time.
Um, and so it was June to July,about three weeks I was gone,
(18:04):
three and a half weeks for amajor training exercise that we
did.
And and when I mean gone, I meangone.
I didn't have access to anythingfor three weeks.
So I I knew about it obviouslyahead of time.
Um, but it was it was a bigchallenge.
I had to get this new, newlyformed W-2 team ready to go
(18:25):
without me being there, right?
They can't just call me and ask,hey, what color goes on the
walls?
They can't call and say, hey,how what's what's the cost of
this project and how do I handleinvoicing?
Um so I had to get the teamready.
Um, and I feel like I did a goodjob getting them ready.
We did walkthroughs with everyclient um weeks before the job
(18:45):
started, or or even days, right?
All the way up until I left.
Um, and then I relied heavy onmy admin, my appointment setter,
to do the job coordination sideof the house, make sure the
reviews are getting done, makesure invoices are getting filed,
checks are getting cashed,payrolls getting done.
Um and we did it.
We did three weeks, uh, me notbeing here.
(19:07):
I think we completed eight jobsin those three weeks.
Every job was profitable.
We had got multiple five-starreviews.
Um, and I came back andeverything was intact, right?
Yeah, it was kind of like amajor fishing test.
Yeah.
Um, but we did it.
And then I came back and and Idid have to hit sales really,
(19:28):
really hard.
Yeah.
Uh, because right, no one wasdoing sales for three weeks, but
we made it work.
Um, and and I never had to tellthe guys or or even subs, hey, I
don't have any work for you nextweek, right?
Um, so that was a majorchallenge, probably the biggest
one.
Um, but we we yeah, we killedit.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
That's that's amazing.
Uh first of all, thank you foryour service.
Uh that that is amazing.
I I was in the National Guardtoo for 13 years, so I know the
pain of going to annual trainingand being in the woods, having
no idea how things are going,being completely cut off.
(20:09):
So that's within the first year.
I never had to do it in my firstyear of business, uh,
thankfully.
But um, so I can I can'timagine, you know, only having
your team for a few months andthen you have to leave for three
weeks with no contact.
Uh so it sounds like you puttogether a really great team
(20:30):
very quickly to be able toshoulder the the burden of the
company while you were gone andwithout being able to ask you
any questions.
Uh so it's a definitely atestament to your team and to
your processes uh so early inyour business.
That's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
And I'm actually I get on a on aplane tomorrow uh and I'll be
gone for two weeks.
And this is all personal uhstuff.
So we we did it once, and nowthe the team's confident, like,
okay, cool, we'll see.
See when you get back, right?
It it's like another day to theoffice uh for the team, which is
great.
Um, but I have that flexibilityand that freedom to to do that
(21:08):
now.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's cool.
Now you've kind of built it, andso now you have the ability to
to leave for for vacation andand and be confident that your
uh your team is set up.
What are some things that you'veyou did that made it you feel
like was really important tomaking it possible for you to
(21:30):
leave and and and things to beokay?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
So I think uh kind of two parts, right?
One is getting the work, which Ihad to be confident in myself to
get the work.
And I have to make sure thework's there.
So once the work's there, um wejust use the same systems as if
I was here.
I'm just not there.
So we send all the work ordersuh for the week on the Friday
(21:58):
before that week starts.
So the crew lead, they look atall the work orders, they know
what type of paint, what color,what the scope is it.
So they they can go to the paintstore on Friday, Monday morning,
what have you, right?
So that's kind of the easystuff.
They understand the scopes ofthe work.
Um, and any any nuanced clients,right?
Because some clients are supereasy to work with.
(22:18):
Some you kind of get an idea,hey, this might be a tough
client because they're gonna benitpicky because they said they
were.
Um, I would have thoseconversations with the team,
like, hey, Susan might be alittle bit of a difficult
client.
Um, she's great and all, butmake sure we're paying specific
detail to X, Y, and Z.
So we have those type ofconversations.
We do job walkthroughs andreview the scope in detail.
(22:41):
I make sure the client meets theteam lead because I won't be
there.
And then our project coordinatoror appointment setter, um,
she'll do the same process evenif I wasn't there.
She'll call the client.
Hey, Susan, we're gonna startyour job on Monday.
We're still making sure we'regood to go.
The guys will be there at 8 a.m.
How's that sound?
Right.
(23:01):
So we do those things.
Um, and then it's pretty smoothsailing after that.
We do our end-of-day reports umin Slack, which is just the
messenger that I'm sure a lot ofpeople use.
Um, but the the crew lead willsay, Hey, this is where we're at
today.
Um, she'll she may ask aquestion, hey, are we still on
track to finish on Wednesday, ordo you need more time?
(23:22):
So she could do thatcoordination piece of either
pull in the other client or pushback a day or two because things
happen.
Um, so she really steps up anddoes all the project
coordination and makes it prettyseamless.
Um that's pretty much it, justmaking sure the systems that we
do have, everyone knows hey,just because I'm not here
(23:43):
doesn't mean we don't submit anyof their reports, right?
Um and everyone kind ofunderstands them on the same
page.
So I think that's what's makesit kind of easy to do.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Yep.
That's great.
Sounds like you have reallygreat processes that that your
team understands uh and and youhave communication set up with
Slack and I'm sure other thingsto make sure things are getting
done.
Um do you do you have theseprocesses documented or is it
(24:16):
just on the job training thatthat they just know what what
their role is?
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Yeah, the basic ones are documented.
Um they they definitely needmore detail and they need they
need to be updated and finalizedas as I'm learning more um about
what I like and don't like.
Um I did use Chad GPT to helpcreate some of these processes.
Um, and then I had buddies inthe industry as well that have
given me some of their processesthat I can make my own.
(24:44):
Um and then the consultingprograms that I went through,
they all have processes as well.
So I had all the resources inthe world available, and I
didn't create anything bymyself.
Um so it's super helpful, right?
When you have the resourcesavailable, you make them your
own and then you implement them,and then you put them in these
(25:05):
different channels in Slack andfiles on your drive, and then
you enforce them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
That's great stuff.
So you get the resources.
Uh yeah, I mean, uh for folkslistening, believe it or not,
many people have run a paintingbusiness.
Uh, so it's all been donebefore.
And so you basically went outand got uh those processes from
friends in the industry, fromfolks in the industry that are
(25:33):
that sell them or have coursesor whatever, and you just put
them together, made them yourown, and just made sure that
your team followed thoseprocesses.
That makes a lot of sense.
And it definitely seems likeit's paid off with you being
able to leave for three weeks inthe middle, you know, cut off
from them completely and nowtaking advantage of advantage of
that, taking a vacation.
(25:54):
So that's amazing.
Um, so it sounds like basicallygetting the work lined up was
important because you're thesalesperson still.
And then just making sure youhave the systems and that folks
are following the systems.
That's that's great stuff.
Um, well, I really appreciatethe time you spent with me today
to kind of take me through youryour first year, and I think
(26:15):
you've done an amazing job.
I mean, this is I know you saidthe first six months is was
rough, but it sounds like youlearned very quickly on how to
to fix that stuff and and itsounds like you're rocking and
rolling now.
Um, do you have any lastthoughts for maybe a painting
business owner that's justgetting started or uh you know
maybe feels like the way youfelt in the first six months?
(26:38):
Um any final thoughts before welet you go today?
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, I would say I would say get get involved in
the community.
The fanning community isginormous, right?
If you're listening to thispodcast, obviously you're
involved in the communitysomewhat.
Um but take advantage of the ofthe resources, the free and paid
resources.
They're there.
Um, there's a bunch of differentcommunities out there.
Get involved with them, starttalking, make friends.
(27:03):
Um, because it it does it doessuck sometimes.
It is tough sometimes, but we'veall been through it, we share
stories, um, and keep movingforward.
And just know it's gonna beokay, um, even when it feels
like it's not.
Just keep trucking along, andthen somehow it it it all works
out in the end.
So just keep moving forward.
(27:24):
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (27:25):
It makes a lot of sense.
And uh once again, thank you somuch, Jordan, for coming on,
sharing your story, and for thelisteners, we will see you next
week.
Thanks, Daniel.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple: to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running, and stealing
a professional paintingbusiness.
From the brushes and ladders tothe spreadsheets and balance
sheets, we've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice, specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast, the
show where painting contractorslearn how to boost profits, cut
taxes, and build a business thatworks for them.
I'm your host, Daniel Honan,CPA, former painting business
owner, and your guide tomastering the numbers that drive
success.
Let's dive in and make yourbusiness more profitable one
episode at a time.
I'm super excited today to haveJordan.
(01:04):
He has an amazing paintingbusiness up in Virginia.
I'm excited to jump into thingswith him today.
Welcome to the podcast, Jordan.
How's it going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Uh it's going well.
I'm excited to talk about thebusiness and see where this
thing goes.
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
Awesome.
Well, it just to give listenersan idea of where you're coming
from, could you give us an ideaof how you got started in the
painting industry?
What's been your journey alongthe way?
Maybe some major milestones.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Sure.
So I started my paintingbusiness back in June of 2024.
So technically I'm still astartup.
Um I have about seven years inthe construction industry,
primarily coming from thecommercial industry where I
built data centers up innorthern Virginia.
And then uh relocated.
Um had a daughter and a family.
So we relocated back home toRichmond, Virginia.
(01:57):
Um, and I worked and did someresidential construction,
building multifamily homes.
Uh, did that for a little while,and then decided I want to step
out of my own uh to start abusiness.
Um, so I started a paintingbusiness.
Um, I have a couple of buddiesin the industry, and it seemed
like a good industry to getinto, um, being that I had a
pretty diverse background in thecommercial world, project
(02:20):
management estimating.
Um, so I thought I'd be a goodfit um to be a good business
owner for a small business.
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
And so what sort of services are you providing in
the painting industry?
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So we when I first started, interestingly, I I was
gonna start a painting andrenovation company.
Um I realized quickly that Iwould never be successful if I
try to do it all and GCeverything.
Um, so I niched down prettyquickly within the first month
to just painting.
So we do interior painting,exterior painting, and cabinet
(02:58):
refinishing.
And it's primarily interior andcabinet uh refinishing focused.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
And this is residential repaint pretty
exclusively or exclusively?
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Yep, residential repaint um fairly exclusively.
Um I've done a little like fitout small commercial work, um,
but we don't gear ouradvertising toward towards that
yet.
Um, that's something I'd like todabble in in the future, but
right now it's mainly focused oninterior residential work, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
Okay, gotcha.
So mostly interior and cabinets,and so you've been in business
for a little over one year,right?
And that first year is usuallythe roughest.
So could you um and just uhthinking back to my first year
(03:50):
and running a painting business,uh, it's it's giving me cold
sweat right now, just thinkingof it.
But uh how how has the firstyear been?
Like what have some been somemajor challenges that you faced
in the first year?
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, so when when I started the business, I didn't
start like as a painter.
I'm not a painter by trade.
Um, and I came from kind of thewhite collarslash blue-collar
background where I was doingproject management.
I was wearing a suit and tie towork pretty much, uh, collared
shirts.
Um, so I started this businessand I realized quickly that I
(04:26):
needed to make money.
Um, and I needed to make adecent amount of money because I
had a family.
Um, so I started doing work forlike side jobs and smaller jobs,
uh, doing everything myself,advertising, marketing, um, and
the work.
And like I said, I'm not apainter.
So it took a long time to dosmall jobs.
Um, they weren't profitable, andit and it was terrible for I
(04:50):
don't know, the first twomonths.
Um and then I went down the pathof kind of chasing every shiny
object, right?
When you start a new business,everyone wants to call you, your
phone's going off the hook, andit's not clients, it's it's
marketing companies, it's angis,it's next door, it's lead gen uh
people calling you.
(05:10):
Um, so I did I got caught in theAngie leads for a little while,
did a couple lead services, um,and it it didn't really work out
too well for for me personally.
Um, the leads I were gettingweren't weren't super great.
Um, and then I finally paired upwith a real marketing company um
and I started getting realleads, so I started getting real
(05:32):
reps in and started landingsubstantial work um to where I
couldn't do it myself anymore.
Um so I started subcontractingwork out um through a few
subcontract partners um to getmore work, get the workflow
going, and keep up with the workI was getting.
Um, but it was messy, man.
(05:53):
It was that first six months wasso messy, I had no systems, um
my processes weren't there, thethe sales were there, the
marketing was there, and yeah,it was bad for the first six
months or so.
SPEAKER_02 (06:08):
So what do you feel like was the big unlock?
Like what happened after sixmonths that that changed things
and started getting thingsmoving in the right direction?
SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Yeah, so I started saying no a lot more to every
single opportunity.
I stopped doing anything thathad to do with renovations or
like quoting that.
Um if it was a large exteriorand I knew I couldn't handle it,
I would say, hey, you know, I'msorry, we can't handle this work
at this time.
Um so I started saying no more.
Um I hired that marketing umcompany and they also did
(06:41):
consulting as well.
Um and they kind of put me onthe right path to, hey, this is
what you should be focusing on.
You should be niching down, youshould be systems and ops
focused and not trying to doeverything yourself.
Um so as soon as I startedimplementing that, little
changes at a time, um, I startedto get my time back and was able
to give these clients a betterexperience and then give myself
(07:04):
more time to develop these SOPsand systems to make us
profitable and do more jobs.
SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
That's that's awesome.
I love the, you know, youstarted saying no more, and that
that was what really made thechange on on what how things
were going.
And uh I forgot who said this,but basically saying no is like
saying yes to the thing that youpromised yourself you're gonna
do.
So you were saying no to theremodeling and the side jobs,
(07:35):
and you you basically every timeyou said no to those things,
you're saying yes to residentialinterior and residential
cabinets, and I know you just dosome exterior as well, but kind
of staying focused on thatstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Yeah, and I took a I took a step back and I kept
getting all this work and I wasgetting about six, seven, eight
weeks booked out.
Um and and I came to like acrossroads like, hey, like the
subcontracting model's great,um, but it's not really what I
wanted to do.
I wanted to run my own teams.
Um, so about that seven,eight-month mark is when I
(08:10):
started hiring um like W-2Painters.
I hired an appointment setter tohandle all my appointments and
my calendar.
Um, and just doing those twolittle things right there gave
me so much more time and doubledthe amount of work I was booking
and producing each month.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
So what where were you?
So about eight months in, youhired your employee painters.
How many employee painters didyou hire at that point?
SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
I hired one to start.
Um, and then I hired another onemaybe a week and a half later.
Um, I never stopped you know thehiring process.
I just want to make sure I hadthe right people on the right
seats.
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
And and then you also get that appointment setter
so that they can answer phonecalls, call leads that come that
came in.
Are we doing Facebook uh metaadvertising?
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Or yeah, I do a lot of Facebook ads.
Um SEO website, so we get a fewleads from there.
Um and then we're gonna startlaunching our LSA ads here soon
to get more leads coming in.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (09:18):
So you said that that eight-month mark, you
started doubling the amount ofwork that you were producing.
What was that number at, likeeight months in?
So pre-eight months or likeright at eight months.
Or like in that time frame whenyou started doubling, what what
was that revenue that you weredoubling?
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Sure.
Yeah, so I started, I was doingabout 20 to 25,000 a month um
producing and selling.
Um, then eight months, aboutthat eight-month mark until now,
which we're at like month 14 ofthe business, we've been selling
between 50 and 60,000 a month.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
15, 60,000 per month.
That's awesome.
So you're you basically wentfrom like a a business that does
around 300,000 per year to abusiness that does like 600,000
plus per year.
So that that's that's amazing.
That's a very quick change.
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
Yeah, we my first year in business, so from June
to June, we did right over360,000.
Um, and then January one of thisyear, right, is when I kind of
knew what I was doing a littlebit, right?
I still don't I feel like Idon't know what I'm doing
sometimes, but I knew I was onthe right path because I tried
everything that first six toeight months, and I found what I
(10:43):
liked, what I didn't like, um,but now I know what I like and
kind of how to do things.
Um, so I really hammered in onmarketing ad spend um to hit the
goal of five to six hundred thisyear, which I think we're on
track to do.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
That's that's great growth.
That's amazing.
The basically on track to donearly, nearly 100% growth.
Um, so that's that's greatstuff.
And you know, one of the thingsuh you mentioned was you were
you started with subcontractors,but then you switched to
employees.
Are you completely employeemodel now, or do you still use
(11:21):
subs?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
We still use subs.
It's about 6040 uh W-2 versussub.
Um, but I'm very it's not just Idon't just use any sub.
I use one or two subs, andthat's it.
And so much so that they'reexclusive uh to me, essentially.
So they're kind of likeemployees.
(11:42):
I know we can't say that rightthere.
They still are 1099 contractors,um, but they don't do much side
work, right?
So it feels like they're membersof the team uh just as much as
my W-2 team.
Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
And did you I guess making that switch to employees,
um, what was the thinking there?
Like, why did you make theswitch?
And then has it brought has itbeen a good change from going
from subs to employees?
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
Yeah, so the sub model was great.
Um, like I said, it it startedmy business, it got me going.
Um, and then I started booking.
I was booking two months out,and it was either I go ahead and
start interviewing more subs andfind these trusted partners
again, or kind of build thatbrand and team that I wanted to
do anyway.
So I was like, well, now's theperfect time.
(12:35):
I'll I'll build a small team andwe'll start doing jobs uh with
that team, and we can grow thatteam a lot easier once that
foundation's set and thoseprocesses have set.
Um, so that's why I did it.
I made sure I was about eightweeks booked out.
I took four of those weeks andinstantly had work for my W-2
employees.
Um, and then I increased my adspend and then kept both both
(12:59):
crews busy um ever since.
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
So you you kind of was that uh booking eight weeks
out, was that intentional inpreparation for hiring
employees, or was that just kindof where you were and you just
took advantage of that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
It was it was semi-intentional.
I think I I don't remember theexact decision, but I think I
wanted more work anyway.
Um and it just kind of naturallyhappened when when you're
booking, especially bigger jobs,it's like okay, well, there's a
week, that's only one job.
Um, but I was landing three,four jobs a week, so my
(13:37):
production was not keeping upwith um the work that was coming
in.
So I I had to make a decisioneither hire or sub out more
work.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Okay.
So you you're at eight weeks,which eight weeks is is for
residential repayment.
That's a little bit high.
So that that was definitelyindicating that you needed some
more capacity for sure.
So you just went with, okay, I'mgonna go with employees instead
of continuing continuing downthe subcontractor route.
Um and at this point, what howfar are you booked out now?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Right now we're about five weeks booked out with
two crews.
Um actually probably eight weeksbooked out because there's a lot
in the pipeline um that clientsare not in a rush to paint or
they want to do it in the thewinter um or even early spring
month.
So the jobs are there, and I'mkind of at another crossroads on
(14:30):
uh if I want to hire more peopleor not.
SPEAKER_02 (14:33):
So yeah, definitely sounds like you you have uh have
you ever heard of the rule ofthree?
I had so it's uh it's actually Ithink it was podcasts I recorded
um with Tara Riley out of theAcademy for Professional
Painting Contractors.
(14:53):
She she's a uh I don't know ifshe came up with this rule of
three, but this is the person Iheard it from, um, which I
really love it.
And it's basically you want tobe able to respond to a new lead
coming in within three minutes.
Like if a you have a Facebooklead that comes in, you want to
(15:14):
be able to reach out and callthem within three minutes, which
it sounds like you have anappointment center that does
that.
So that's that's great.
Then the next rule is once youget that appointment scheduled,
you want to be out thereproviding an estimate or
proposal within three days.
So you'll need to have enoughsalespeople to to be available
(15:38):
within 72 hours of that league,you know, coming in, and you can
actually get to their home toprovide that in-house
consultation.
And then the last one is threeweeks from when they when you
close the job, three weeks toproduction, assuming that they
want it done.
You know, you know, like youmentioned, sometimes people just
want it done later or orwhatever, the winter and you
(16:00):
can't paint outside.
But uh generally, if folks wantit done, you can produce it
within three weeks.
And that's the the rule of threeto basically give you an idea of
do I have enough of a team toyou know produce the work that's
coming in or the the them tomeet the demand that's coming
(16:21):
in.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Yeah, it's a good rule.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
It's a good rule.
Yeah, I I like it.
So it's it's um it sounds likeyou're potentially you know uh a
little low on on the cruiseside, and if you hired more, you
might be able to produce thatrevenue more quickly and
actually, you know, uh hit yoursix hundred thousand dollar uh
(16:45):
your year goal that you have, ormaybe even surpass it.
Um cool.
So we talked about basically inthe first six months it was
chaos.
You were doing everythingyourself, you were you weren't
focused, you got more focused,you started saying no and
(17:06):
focusing on the things that youwanted to do, which was interior
and exterior, interior andcabinet, primarily in some
exterior residential work.
And then things started to takeoff uh once you started
focusing, and you're using thesubcom contractor model, kind of
pivoted slightly to moreemployees, and you're able to
(17:27):
ramp up production and in anddouble the amount of uh work
that you're producing eachmonth.
Um what what are kind of arethere any other big challenges
that you faced over the lastyear or so?
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Yeah, there's been a lot of big challenges.
Um trying to think of some somekey ones that stick out to me.
Um yeah, the biggest challenge,so I'm in the National Guard as
well.
Um, so that takes up a decentamount of my time.
Um, and so it was June to July,about three weeks I was gone,
(18:04):
three and a half weeks for amajor training exercise that we
did.
And and when I mean gone, I meangone.
I didn't have access to anythingfor three weeks.
So I I knew about it obviouslyahead of time.
Um, but it was it was a bigchallenge.
I had to get this new, newlyformed W-2 team ready to go
(18:25):
without me being there, right?
They can't just call me and ask,hey, what color goes on the
walls?
They can't call and say, hey,how what's what's the cost of
this project and how do I handleinvoicing?
Um so I had to get the teamready.
Um, and I feel like I did a goodjob getting them ready.
We did walkthroughs with everyclient um weeks before the job
(18:45):
started, or or even days, right?
All the way up until I left.
Um, and then I relied heavy onmy admin, my appointment setter,
to do the job coordination sideof the house, make sure the
reviews are getting done, makesure invoices are getting filed,
checks are getting cashed,payrolls getting done.
Um and we did it.
We did three weeks, uh, me notbeing here.
(19:07):
I think we completed eight jobsin those three weeks.
Every job was profitable.
We had got multiple five-starreviews.
Um, and I came back andeverything was intact, right?
Yeah, it was kind of like amajor fishing test.
Yeah.
Um, but we did it.
And then I came back and and Idid have to hit sales really,
(19:28):
really hard.
Yeah.
Uh, because right, no one wasdoing sales for three weeks, but
we made it work.
Um, and and I never had to tellthe guys or or even subs, hey, I
don't have any work for you nextweek, right?
Um, so that was a majorchallenge, probably the biggest
one.
Um, but we we yeah, we killedit.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
That's that's amazing.
Uh first of all, thank you foryour service.
Uh that that is amazing.
I I was in the National Guardtoo for 13 years, so I know the
pain of going to annual trainingand being in the woods, having
no idea how things are going,being completely cut off.
(20:09):
So that's within the first year.
I never had to do it in my firstyear of business, uh,
thankfully.
But um, so I can I can'timagine, you know, only having
your team for a few months andthen you have to leave for three
weeks with no contact.
Uh so it sounds like you puttogether a really great team
(20:30):
very quickly to be able toshoulder the the burden of the
company while you were gone andwithout being able to ask you
any questions.
Uh so it's a definitely atestament to your team and to
your processes uh so early inyour business.
That's that's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
And I'm actually I get on a on aplane tomorrow uh and I'll be
gone for two weeks.
And this is all personal uhstuff.
So we we did it once, and nowthe the team's confident, like,
okay, cool, we'll see.
See when you get back, right?
It it's like another day to theoffice uh for the team, which is
great.
Um, but I have that flexibilityand that freedom to to do that
(21:08):
now.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's cool.
Now you've kind of built it, andso now you have the ability to
to leave for for vacation andand and be confident that your
uh your team is set up.
What are some things that you'veyou did that made it you feel
like was really important tomaking it possible for you to
(21:30):
leave and and and things to beokay?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
So I think uh kind of two parts, right?
One is getting the work, which Ihad to be confident in myself to
get the work.
And I have to make sure thework's there.
So once the work's there, um wejust use the same systems as if
I was here.
I'm just not there.
So we send all the work ordersuh for the week on the Friday
(21:58):
before that week starts.
So the crew lead, they look atall the work orders, they know
what type of paint, what color,what the scope is it.
So they they can go to the paintstore on Friday, Monday morning,
what have you, right?
So that's kind of the easystuff.
They understand the scopes ofthe work.
Um, and any any nuanced clients,right?
Because some clients are supereasy to work with.
(22:18):
Some you kind of get an idea,hey, this might be a tough
client because they're gonna benitpicky because they said they
were.
Um, I would have thoseconversations with the team,
like, hey, Susan might be alittle bit of a difficult
client.
Um, she's great and all, butmake sure we're paying specific
detail to X, Y, and Z.
So we have those type ofconversations.
We do job walkthroughs andreview the scope in detail.
(22:41):
I make sure the client meets theteam lead because I won't be
there.
And then our project coordinatoror appointment setter, um,
she'll do the same process evenif I wasn't there.
She'll call the client.
Hey, Susan, we're gonna startyour job on Monday.
We're still making sure we'regood to go.
The guys will be there at 8 a.m.
How's that sound?
Right.
(23:01):
So we do those things.
Um, and then it's pretty smoothsailing after that.
We do our end-of-day reports umin Slack, which is just the
messenger that I'm sure a lot ofpeople use.
Um, but the the crew lead willsay, Hey, this is where we're at
today.
Um, she'll she may ask aquestion, hey, are we still on
track to finish on Wednesday, ordo you need more time?
(23:22):
So she could do thatcoordination piece of either
pull in the other client or pushback a day or two because things
happen.
Um, so she really steps up anddoes all the project
coordination and makes it prettyseamless.
Um that's pretty much it, justmaking sure the systems that we
do have, everyone knows hey,just because I'm not here
(23:43):
doesn't mean we don't submit anyof their reports, right?
Um and everyone kind ofunderstands them on the same
page.
So I think that's what's makesit kind of easy to do.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
Yep.
That's great.
Sounds like you have reallygreat processes that that your
team understands uh and and youhave communication set up with
Slack and I'm sure other thingsto make sure things are getting
done.
Um do you do you have theseprocesses documented or is it
(24:16):
just on the job training thatthat they just know what what
their role is?
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Yeah, the basic ones are documented.
Um they they definitely needmore detail and they need they
need to be updated and finalizedas as I'm learning more um about
what I like and don't like.
Um I did use Chad GPT to helpcreate some of these processes.
Um, and then I had buddies inthe industry as well that have
given me some of their processesthat I can make my own.
(24:44):
Um and then the consultingprograms that I went through,
they all have processes as well.
So I had all the resources inthe world available, and I
didn't create anything bymyself.
Um so it's super helpful, right?
When you have the resourcesavailable, you make them your
own and then you implement them,and then you put them in these
(25:05):
different channels in Slack andfiles on your drive, and then
you enforce them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
That's great stuff.
So you get the resources.
Uh yeah, I mean, uh for folkslistening, believe it or not,
many people have run a paintingbusiness.
Uh, so it's all been donebefore.
And so you basically went outand got uh those processes from
friends in the industry, fromfolks in the industry that are
(25:33):
that sell them or have coursesor whatever, and you just put
them together, made them yourown, and just made sure that
your team followed thoseprocesses.
That makes a lot of sense.
And it definitely seems likeit's paid off with you being
able to leave for three weeks inthe middle, you know, cut off
from them completely and nowtaking advantage of advantage of
that, taking a vacation.
(25:54):
So that's amazing.
Um, so it sounds like basicallygetting the work lined up was
important because you're thesalesperson still.
And then just making sure youhave the systems and that folks
are following the systems.
That's that's great stuff.
Um, well, I really appreciatethe time you spent with me today
to kind of take me through youryour first year, and I think
(26:15):
you've done an amazing job.
I mean, this is I know you saidthe first six months is was
rough, but it sounds like youlearned very quickly on how to
to fix that stuff and and itsounds like you're rocking and
rolling now.
Um, do you have any lastthoughts for maybe a painting
business owner that's justgetting started or uh you know
maybe feels like the way youfelt in the first six months?
(26:38):
Um any final thoughts before welet you go today?
SPEAKER_00 (26:42):
Yeah, I would say I would say get get involved in
the community.
The fanning community isginormous, right?
If you're listening to thispodcast, obviously you're
involved in the communitysomewhat.
Um but take advantage of the ofthe resources, the free and paid
resources.
They're there.
Um, there's a bunch of differentcommunities out there.
Get involved with them, starttalking, make friends.
(27:03):
Um, because it it does it doessuck sometimes.
It is tough sometimes, but we'veall been through it, we share
stories, um, and keep movingforward.
And just know it's gonna beokay, um, even when it feels
like it's not.
Just keep trucking along, andthen somehow it it it all works
out in the end.
So just keep moving forward.
(27:24):
Good stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (27:25):
It makes a lot of sense.
And uh once again, thank you somuch, Jordan, for coming on,
sharing your story, and for thelisteners, we will see you next
week.
Thanks, Daniel.
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