Scaling Your Painting Business: The Power of a Back Office Admin

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting businessFrom the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast

(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.

(00:42):
This is Daniel, the founder ofBookkeeping for Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners, helping themknow their numbers on what they
mean and save big in tax.
And today I'm really excited.
I have Cody Hall here with usand we're going to talk about
hiring a back office admin.
So I'm super excited to jumpinto the conversation.
But before we do, I'm going togo ahead and read through Cody

(01:05):
Hall's biography.
So Cody Hall has a diversebackground in the military,
technology and business thatmakes him capable of leading the
organization effectively.
Cody led customer service andhuman resource teams from an
early stage startup to industryleading tech giants, creating
benchmark customer experiencesand employee journeys for teams

(01:28):
large and small.
After his time with largerorganizations, he began to
impact fast-growing companies,starting and assisting multiple
startups in developingworld-class teams, customer
experience and technologyworkflows.
Years later, cody started andled a multinational business
processing organization, a BPO,supporting companies from Los

(01:52):
Angeles to Tel Aviv with variousremote staffing and call center
needs.
Now Cody leads marketing atBookkeeping for Painters and he
seeks to provide expertise topainters that need to know their
numbers and saving in taxes.
Super excited to have you here,cody.
Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you for having me, daniel.
I hope to live up to that bioman.
I don't know who wrote thatthing, but that thing sounds
nice.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
I know I'm just super excited to talk to whoever owns
this bio Me, too excited totalk to whoever owns this bio.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So today we're going to talkabout how to get someone on your
team to help you get to thenext level.
So a lot of painting businessesthat I work with they're

(02:39):
between like revenue of 350 to 1million and oftentimes there's
like a bottleneck in theircompany where they're trying to
wear all the hats and theyreally need someone to just do
some basic things like answerthe phone or send off some
invoices.
But they're doing everythingand they just need someone to

(03:02):
come in the organization helpthem out with those simple tasks
that can really help him, helpthat pain business owner free up
their time so they can focus onthings that are more important,
like marketing and sales togrow their business to the next
level.
And you have some expertise inthis field of placing people in
organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on, like on how can

(03:24):
someone do this?
How can they do thiseffectively but also in the most
inexpensive way possible?
What are the biggest adminbottlenecks that slow a painting
business down that you've andthen how can hiring solve them?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, daniel, you said it well At those stages.
Those stages exist in manyindustries either that 350 to 1
million where they're trying togrow the very thing that
themselves they sprouted from aseed and they found out.
Well, I've done everything upto this point and now they're
trying to do that while growing,while having a family and while
trying not to make mistakes.
And oftentimes we see it in thesmall things that don't

(04:11):
generate revenue.
They are the things thatoftentimes weigh people down.
This is something you know.
Talking about the accountingpiece, you know I myself speak
to many of the oncoming clientsfor bookkeeping, for painters,
and they're trying to grow theirbusiness right and they're
trying to grow their businessright and they're trying to get
someone who has an expertise onthe painting and the accounting
side.
Well, it's just like that withthe virtual staffing piece, you

(04:33):
know you have phone calls comingin, you have things that need
to be filed, customers that needto be followed up with invoices
and you know a great examplethat you mentioned beforehand is
many people are spending a tonof money on marketing and time.
They're posting shorts,recording podcasts, and when
those phone calls come in, theydon't have anybody to pick up

(04:53):
the phone and oftentimes, justlike you said and everyone here
listening I'm sure know, if youdon't get that phone the first
time, they're going to the nextperson on Google, to the next
person on Google, the nextperson on Google.
So having someone that kind ofsits in that intersection of
non-revenue producing tasks iswhat oftentimes people use a
virtual staff member for.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, it's huge, like what you mentioned in terms of
like those leads coming in, likeif you're too busy to answer
the phone, that's just costingyou a huge amount of money.
If your phone is ringing andyou're missing it and it's from
leads, I mean just count up howmany missed calls you're getting
and multiply that by your closerate and that's basically in

(05:40):
what your average job size is.
So let's say, over the courseof a month, if you're still
answering the phone, if you misslike 10 phone calls which is,
you know, may not sound like alot to some, but let's say you
missed 10 phone calls and ifthey were all leads that were
coming in and you have like a50% close rate, that's five jobs

(06:00):
.
If you have average job size ofyou know, $5,000, let's say
that's $25,000.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, and you know one thing you know like.
The highlight is oftentimespeople hear that like, well,
great, I'll get a phoneanswering service.
You know, I caution you thereas well.
Having a phone answeringservice and a staff a dedicated
staff member oftentimes costabout the same.
The difference is is having adedicated staff member, you'll
have someone who knows yourbusiness right.
You'll be able to coach them onhow to communicate to your

(06:30):
clients the way you want yourclients to be communicated with,
where an answering service willjust answer the phone, put them
on a spreadsheet for you andsay, hey, call them back later.
You also have the side ofthings where you can get that
person additional tasks.
While they're waiting for thatphone to be ringing, they could
be doing whatever you want forthem Updating your Facebook,

(06:50):
updating your LinkedIn, updatingyour website.
You can have that person bemultifaceted, which oftentimes
in my experience with myprevious organization was that,
regardless of the industry thatour folks would find themselves
in they often were a generalmarketer would be the best way
to describe it.
They did a little bit ofeverything and they did a little
bit of marketing.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's huge.
And I think a lot of hesitationfor painting business owners
that I've spoke to is onethey're not sure where to go to
get this.
And then two, they're concernedabout the costs Bringing on
somebody to be full-time intheir business.
They might have hired paintersbefore and it's like a

(07:33):
straightforward.
Okay, I have projects, like Iget crews, but having a
full-time person, or maybe evenjust part-time, but part-time to
full-time person in thebusiness every day, that might
be, oh man, that seems like it'sgoing to be a lot of money
that's coming out of theirpocket.
So what would you say to folks?

(07:53):
Where can you find people tofill this role and what are you
looking at in terms of cost?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
No great question, and I'll talk about the cost
that you're going to be paying,not the opportunity cost you'll
have by missing phone calls andthings like that, because that's
out there as well.
You have two paths and thefirst one is one I don't
recommend because that've seenit go awry so many times.
It's hiring a freelancer.
You can go to Fiverr or manyother freelancer-based pages and

(08:28):
hire someone for $500 a month.
They'll be out of South Africaor some Southeast Asian-based
country and you'll spend $500 amonth and you'll get somebody
who will work for you.
That's on the really low end.
However, oftentimes we foundourselves my previous
organization.

(08:48):
We were a value-basedorganization, not a cost
competitor, and so we were about$1,500 a month was our average
spend.
Actually can't even say it wasaverage.
That was our lowest entry pointwas about $1,500 per month, and
that was because we were hiringstraight out of Mexico.

(09:08):
English SC1 was requirementtested, written and verbal.
We also required educationverification, so everyone had a
degree.
So you can get a variety ofpeople.
But I would caution people togo straight to a freelancer
because you have no protectionthere.
You're going to entrust thisperson to answer your phone,

(09:28):
emails and maybe even makepayments for you and send
invoices.
You're going to want someonethere to guarantee your
protection and support, which iswhat a BPO is, a business
processing organization.
At Telehealth, my previousorganization, that company would
ensure that the people hadbackground checks, that if they
did something wrong, they wouldhave some sort of course, some

(09:52):
reaction would happen, whetherit's disciplinary, legal in any
way.
So it gave you a stronger senseof protection, versus just
hiring some random person out ofAfrica which a lot of people do
, venezuela as well and thenthey're just rolling the dice.
You don't know what you get,though you are getting it very
cheap.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, so it sounds like going to Upwork or Fiverr.
You can go direct to folksoutside of the country.
You're just taking on someadditional risk there.
It might be cheaper, but thecost is hidden and it's the risk
of them not following through,not doing your process doing
something with the sensitivedata that you have access to,

(10:32):
that sort of thing with thesensitive data that you have
access to, that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I've heard stories about virtual assistants that
were hired through Upwork, usingcredit cards, maxing them out
for their clients, stealingproprietary information and
starting their own company thatdid just the same thing as that
company did, and so I've heardall the horror stories I used to
always say at Telehelping wewere back-to-back lawsuit
champions.
We never lost a fight, whetherit was prosecuting someone who

(11:06):
did something that violatedtheir agreement or likewise.
There's also the ones whereclients take the people from you
, but we always protect ourclients and put a lot of money
into insuring they're alwaysprotected.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
You want those companies between you and that
international freelancer thatthe folks that they have, as
it's a plug into your business,they have, like you know, a

(11:40):
certain level of english, thatthey speak a certain level of
education and training, sothey've been vetted at some
level.
Before you know me, as thepainting business owner even
gets to interact with them, willthey also help with like,
placing, like if I hey, I needsomeone who can do some
marketing tasks, answer thephone, maybe do some phone calls
, outbound phone calls Do theyhelp place that if I give them

(12:04):
that information?

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, that's a great question and I can only speak to
what tele-helping did.
I know that industry practiceis to have a large group of
folks waiting and standing by tobe assigned to a person, so
it's more so having a solutionwaiting for a problem.
I think that's the mostmilitary way in the world to
look at things.

(12:26):
As two veterans, I like seeinga problem and drafting a
solution, and so a place liketele-helping, we used a jobs to
be done approach to things andwe was like, okay, what does the
client want to achieve?
And from that they woulddevelop a job description that
then would be applied through asearch, and so it would be
exactly what the client'slooking to achieve.

(12:48):
That would result in the personthat they'll end up
interviewing One of the greatthings that we haven't.
We talked about just the hiringpiece.
But people are people and withpeople comes payroll, concerns
about payroll, hr concerns aboutperformance, concerned about
job security.
All these things that go intothe overhead of a human being in

(13:08):
a position is taken care of bythe BPO, and so and they make
sure that really the virtualstaff members only focus is
whatever task you have themdoing.
That's their focus If it'spayroll if it's, you know, sick
time, all those vacation thingsall that's taken care of by the
BPO so that you can focus onmaking money.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, so you're only responsible for the monthly
payment to the BPO.
So you're only responsible forthe monthly payment to the BPO,
starting somewhere between$1,500 and $2,000 per month
approximately, and then whatevertasks you're assigning your

(13:52):
virtual assistant, like makingsure they have some processes to
work with and standardoperating procedures.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, and I like to go ahead and plug bookkeeping
for painters here, because wewould and don't shoot at me till
helping, but we would giveclients, accountants from Mexico
all the time that, well, afull-time person, even from
Mexico, to do accounting was farmore than they would pay for

(14:16):
bookkeeping for paintingservices, and because
accountings are very specializedand then they still wouldn't be
able to file the taxes, that'sa really expensive niche
placement for a virtual staffmember.
You see that with you know inthe 2,500 plus range for that,
and lawyers right, but mostpeople don't need those
particular placements.

(14:37):
People hiring an accountantfrom Mexico is most likely an
accounting firm who providesbookkeeping and taxes as a
service, or a lawyer who wantstranslation documents and drafts
.
Those hire those really specialones.
Everyone else I'd say 70% offolks they're hiring someone to
do general staff and they'realso doing marketing associated

(15:01):
with it, because it's in 2025,if you own a business, you're an
influencer.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah yeah, social media is big Speed to lead.
Making sure your Facebook,because it seems like when
someone looks into your business, if they see your Google
results, they'll also just checkout your Facebook page to see
what's going on there.
And if it has a bunch of beforeand afters of how you blew your

(15:28):
clients away with amazingresults, they'll probably pick
up the phone and give you a call.
So, yeah, those things arereally.
They can be very impactful foryour business, especially if you
keep on top of them, doing itconsistently.
And as a painting businessowner growing from $350, $500 to

(15:50):
a million or more, you won'thave time to do those daily
tasks and just getting that offyour plate will be a huge win
and you'll easily see the returnon investment.
Because, we mentioned earlier,if you're missing a few phone
calls a month, that's probablycosting you thousands of dollars
.
You're probably missing one ortwo or maybe three phone calls a

(16:11):
month.
If you had someone alwaysanswering it, that would easily
cover the cost of that virtualassistant Just being able to
answer the phone every singletime, as opposed to missing when
you're trying to answer it andyou're missing a few phone calls
a month.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Right, yeah, and if you're on the job site and
you're out quoting people andyou're focused on driving the
business to its growth, it'shard to sit by and wait for that
phone You're going to beputting money.
Speed to Lead was a greatexample.
Many clients that I worked withhad the Speed to Lead problem,
because the truth of the matteris is most businesses aren't

(16:49):
incredibly unique, and if you'rein the painting business, you
probably live in a city wherethere's another painting
business, right.
And if you're in the paintingbusiness, you probably live in a
city where there's anotherpainting business, right, and so
you're competing for thatperson's quote.
And oftentimes you know I quotemy brother here the user, the
first person on the job you knowhas the greatest chance of
closing the deal, and missingthat phone call is is half the

(17:11):
battle.
Can't do it.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, what would you say are some common mistakes
that business owners make whentrying to hire an admin?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
do a task, but like I'm going to make them do this
and like, great, what are wetrying to accomplish here?
Like well, I just don't want todo it.
And so we would dissect, kindof the intent of the client.
And oftentimes, those who golooking for something, they find
that what they're looking forisn't the original thought
process they set out on.
They'll say I just needsomething to do marketing.
Well, marketing is entirely morecomplex than just marketing.

(18:01):
Sure, manage the Facebook, butwhere's the content coming from?
Who's writing the content?
Who's targeting the audience?
And so oftentimes, when peopleare looking for it, they find
out that what they need isdifferent than what they wanted.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play a good BPO.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play.
A good BPO.
Be very clear.
You go to most BPOs.
They will give you whatever youask for.

(18:23):
The BPOs who question you, pushback, dive a little deeper.
Those are the ones you want towork with, because they're
trying to get correct placementfirst, not the quickest
placement to get paid.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
That's a good point.
What would you say?
Because one of the objectionsI've heard before is like folks
have a hesitancy to hiresomebody abroad.
Like, even if it's just fromMexico, they feel like, oh,
they're not gonna be able tospeak English well enough to be

(18:59):
understood, or there might bejust cultural differences.
But I guess what are somethings that you've learned?
Are there benefits to havingsomeone that's from a virtual
assistant coming from Mexico orsome similar country, as opposed
to trying to find a localperson to help you?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
No, that's a great question, and that's exactly why
I only hired and operated mycall centers and people out of
Mexico, because most I'd say athird of the company was native
English speaking.
They were born in the UnitedStates, went to college in the
United States, and so they had ahigh degree of understanding
and everyone else who spokeEnglish.

(19:44):
If you don't know this, mostaffluent paths in life in Mexico
start with a bilingual school,and so the folks we're hiring
that are coming out ofuniversity, that are coming out
of other jobs, they've beenspeaking English since they were
kids, and so that's the greatthing about we don't see Mexico.
We see that it is a foreigncountry, but we have to

(20:05):
understand that our paths interms of culture, relationships,
business are so intertwinedthat it makes Mexico the perfect
partner for seeking to havesomeone who is competent, who is
skilled but is less expensivethan their US counterpart.
Have someone who is competent,who is skilled but is less
expensive than their UScounterpart.
Now, folks in Mexico can getpricey, but even the most pricey

(20:26):
person that you'll get out ofMexico is going to come with a
greater amount of experience,education and yes, the English
than, say, someone at a similarprice in the United States.
You just can't beat it.
And I would even go on a limb tosay now, with current tariffs
being implemented, the power ofthe dollar, the weakening of the
peso, now more than ever,you're going to get Mexico at a

(20:48):
bargain, and people down therewant to work for strong American
companies where they know thatthey can wake up.
Every day, monday throughFriday, they can show up
somewhere.
They're going to get paid, andthat's what I love about
Mexico-based culture and work.
If they're really good at theirjob, they're focusing on

(21:09):
keeping this job and staying init forever.
They're not sitting there.
Oh, I'm good at my job, I wanta better job.
That doesn't exist in so muchof the culture of mexico,
because they think more aboutstability and longevity than
they do about hierarchicalprocess and rising so if you, if
you go with someone from mexico, it sounds like you could you

(21:31):
probably have them for severalyears and they'll be.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
They'll be happy with that consistent work as long
you know doing the same thingevery day.
That that seems like fits inright in with their culture and
not expecting to like, oh, Iwant to be COO at some point, or
something like that.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I'd actually say that finding those people
was very difficult in Mexico.
You know, from the side ofthings of running the company
and the headquarters side.
I wanted business leaders.
I want individual leadersworking for me directly because
I want to push down to the verylowest level the authority to

(22:07):
make choices and then pick fromthem with consequences.
Finding those people wasdifficult, finding the virtual
staff for the clients very easy,because they want someone who's
going to love their job andstick with it.
I'm looking for someone whoalways wants to push the
envelope, keep growing, makethings better, and when you're

(22:28):
trying to grow a rapid startupinto a multimillion dollar giant
, you need people who live,breathe and sleep the company
versus someone who's like giveme a job, I'm going to work this
, I'm going to do great at itand I'm going to be happy where
I'm at.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Cool, awesome.
Well, what would you say to apainting business if they're
struggling with wearing all thehats and feel like they could
use a back office assistant,virtual assistant?
What do they need to do to takethe next steps?

Speaker 2 (22:58):
No, that's a great question.
And, first and foremost,realize that you aren't
experiencing something unique tojust you which helps you take
yourself out of your shoes.
There are a lot of paintingbusinesses, a lot of business in
general, that are going throughthe same thing.
You're hitting a bottleneckwith your task and in order to
continue the growth that you arethe health of yourself and
health of the business you needto put responsibilities outside

(23:21):
of your own self.
And I would say you know Ispoke to telehelping before this
and you know, if you want toreach out, one thing that I
implemented back in my day aspart of the plan was to not
charge people for looking forstaff, and so if you just want
to kick tires right, they have adepartment called placement

(23:42):
that their sole job is to makesure that they try to find
people to put in front of you tolet you fill it out.
And so if you reach out totelehelping, you can go to info
at telehelpingcom and say Codyreferred you One.
They'll give you a discount Iasked them to do so but also
they'll guide you through theprocess, help you identify the

(24:03):
role and they'll let you know ifwhat you're trying to
accomplish is best coupled witha virtual assistant.
One of the founding principlesI put on the company was not to
do things that we're not good at, and so, if they don't believe
that a virtual staff member isgoing to be the right solution
for you, they will advise you inthe best direction.
Maybe it is a call answeringservices, maybe it's a marketing

(24:24):
service Right, but if you'relooking for someone to kind of
wear a lot of hats that you'recurrently wearing, I suggest you
give away the hat.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Excellent.
So that's info attelehelpingcom, correct.
Excellent, so that's info attelehelpingcom, correct.
Highly recommend if you'relooking for somebody to help get
those admin tasks off yourplate, give telehealth a look
and check out.
Give them an email, as Codysaid.
But I appreciate your timetoday, cody.
Are there any last thoughtsthat you'd like to give the

(25:11):
audience before we let you go?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, and I think this is very important for those
who are considering bookkeeperfor painters and looking for
accounting services or lookingfor general admin services.
You're great at what you do,but you can't do everything as
best as someone who'sspecialized in it, whether it's
your accounting or bookkeeping,or if it's having someone whose
daily job is to sit there tomake sure things get posted

(25:35):
online and phones get answered.
Just remember you're the leaderof the business, you're not the
business.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, excellent, All right with that.
Love to hear your thoughts.
If you go to Facebook and typein Grow, your Painting Business,
send an invite to join thegroup, post your questions or
any thoughts for future episodes.
Love to hear from you and withthat, we will talk to you next
week.
Thank you, Daniel.