March 21, 2025 • 25 mins
This episode focuses on the critical role of hiring back office support to enhance productivity in painting businesses. We discuss how a virtual assistant can help alleviate overwhelm and improve service delivery.
• Importance of hiring back office support
• Common bottlenecks faced by painting business owners
• Differences between hiring freelancers and BPOs
• Steps to find the right virtual assistant
• Cost considerations for hiring
• Emphasizing the value of delegation for business growth
If you’re looking for staffing solutions, reach out to info@telehelping.com for personalized assistance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners, helping themknow their numbers on what they
mean and save big in tax.
And today I'm really excited, Ihave Cody Hall here with us and
we're going to talk abouthiring a back office admin.
So I'm super excited to jumpinto the conversation.
But before we do, I'm going togo ahead and read through Cody
(00:22):
Hall's biography.
So Cody Hall has a diversebackground in the military,
technology and business thatmakes him capable of leading the
organization effectively.
Cody led customer service andhuman resource teams from an
early stage startup to industryleading tech giants, creating
benchmark customer experiencesand employee journeys for teams
(00:46):
large and small.
After his time with largerorganizations, he began to
impact fast-growing companies,starting and assisting multiple
startups in developingworld-class teams, customer
experience and technologyworkflows.
Years later, cody started andled a multinational business
processing organization, a BPO,supporting companies from Los
(01:10):
Angeles to Tel Aviv with variousremote staffing and call center
needs.
Now Cody leads marketing atBookkeeping for Painters and he
seeks to provide expertise topainters that need to know their
numbers and saving in taxes.
Super excited to have you here,cody.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you for having me, daniel.
I hope to live up to that bioman.
I don't know who wrote thatthing, but that thing sounds
nice.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I know I'm just super excited to talk to whoever owns
this bio Me too, me too, me too, so, yeah, so today we're going
to talk about how to getsomeone on your team to help you
get to the next level.
So a lot of painting businessesthat I work with they're between
(01:57):
like revenue of 350 to 1million and oftentimes there's
like a bottleneck in theircompany where they're trying to
wear all the hats and theyreally need someone to just do
some basic things like answerthe phone or send off some
invoices.
Organization help them out withthose simple tasks that can
(02:28):
really help that paintingbusiness owner free up their
time so they can focus on thingsthat are more important, like
marketing and sales, to growtheir business to the next level
.
And you have some expertise inthis field of placing people in
organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
do this, how can they do thiseffectively but also in the most
inexpensive way possible?
(02:49):
What are the biggest adminbottlenecks that slow a painting
business down that you've, andthen how can hiring solve them?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, daniel, you said it well At those stages.
Those stages exist in manyindustries, that 350 to 1
million where they're trying togrow the very thing that
themselves.
They sprouted from a seed rightand they found like, well, I've
done everything up to thispoint and now they're trying to
do that while growing, whilehaving a family and while trying
(03:22):
not to make mistakes.
And oftentimes we see it in thesmall things that don't
generate revenue.
It are the things thatoftentimes weigh people down.
This is something you know.
Talking about the accountingpiece, you know I myself speak
to many of the oncoming clientsfor bookkeepers or painters and
they're trying to grow theirbusiness right and they're
(03:43):
trying to get someone who has anexpertise on the painting and
the accounting side.
Well, it's just like that withthe virtual staffing piece.
You have phone calls coming in,you have things that need to be
filed, customers that need tobe followed up with invoices,
and a great example that youmentioned beforehand is many
people are spending a ton ofmoney on marketing and time.
They're posting shorts,recording podcasts, and when
(04:08):
those phone calls come in, theydon't have anybody to pick up
the phone and oftentimes, justlike you said and everyone here
listening I'm sure know, if youdon't get that phone the first
time, they're going to the nextperson on Google, the next
person on Google.
So having someone that kind ofsits in that intersection of
non-revenue producing tasks iswhat oftentimes people use a
(04:29):
virtual staff member for.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, it's huge, like what you mentioned in terms of
like those leads coming in, likeif you're too busy to answer
the phone, that's just costingyou a huge amount of money.
If your phone is ringing andyou're missing it and it's from
leads, I mean, just count up howmany missed calls you're
getting and you know, multiplythat by your close rate, you
(04:56):
know, and that's basically inwhat your average job size is,
so like, let's say, over thecourse of a month, if you're
still answering the phone, ifyou miss like 10 phone calls,
which is, you know, may notsound like a lot to some, but
let's say you miss 10 phonecalls and if they were all leads
that were coming in and youhave like a 50% close rate,
(05:17):
that's five jobs.
If you have average job size of$5,000, let's say that's
$25,000.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know one thing, youknow like.
The highlight is oftentimespeople hear that like well,
great, I'll get a phoneanswering service.
Uh, you know, I caution youthere as well.
Um, having a phone answeringservice and a staff a dedicated
staff member oftentimes costsabout the same.
The difference is is having adedicated staff member, you'll
have someone who knows yourbusiness right.
(05:45):
You'll be able to coach them onhow to communicate to your
clients the way you want yourclients to be communicated with,
where an answering service willjust answer the phone, put them
on a spreadsheet for you andsay, hey, call them back later.
You also have the side ofthings where you can give that
person additional tasks.
While they're waiting for thatphone to be ringing, they could
be doing whatever you want forthem Updating your Facebook,
(06:08):
updating your LinkedIn, updatingyour website.
You can have that person bemultifaceted, which oftentimes
in my experience with myprevious organization, was that,
regardless of the industry thatour folks would find themselves
in they often were a generalmarketer would be the best way
to describe it.
They did a little bit ofeverything and they yeah, it's
(06:32):
huge.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
And I think a lot of hesitation for painting business
owners that I've spoke to isone they're not sure where to go
to get this.
And then two, they're concernedabout the costs.
I have projects like I getcrews, but having a full-time
person or maybe even justpart-time, but part-time to
(07:01):
full-time person in the businessevery day that might be, oh man
, that seems like it's going tobe a lot of money that's coming
out of their pocket.
So what would you say to folks?
Where can you find people tofill this role and what are you
looking at in terms of cost?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
No great question, and I'll talk about the cost
that you're going to be paying,not the opportunity cost you'll
have by missing phone calls andthings like that, because that's
out there as well.
You have two paths and thefirst one is one I don't
recommend because I've seen itgo arise so many times.
It's hiring a freelancer.
You can go to Fiverr or manyother freelancer-based pages and
(07:45):
hire someone for $500 a month.
They'll be out of South Africaor some Southeast Asian-based
country and you'll spend $500 amonth and you'll get somebody
who will work for you.
That's on the really low end.
However, oftentimes we foundourselves my previous
organization.
(08:06):
We were a value-basedorganization, not a cost
competitor, and so we were about$1,500 a month was our average
spend.
Actually can't even say it wasaverage.
That was our lowest entry pointwas about $1,500 per month, and
that was because we were hiringstraight out of Mexico.
(08:26):
English SC1 was requirementtested, written and verbal.
We also required educationverification, so everyone had a
degree.
So you can get a variety ofpeople, but I would caution
people to go straight to afreelancer because you have no
protection there.
You're going to entrust thisperson to answer your phone,
(08:46):
emails and maybe even makepayments for you and send
invoices.
You're going to want someonethere to guarantee your
protection and support, which iswhat a BPO is, a business
processing organization.
At Telehelp, my previousorganization, that company would
ensure that the people hadbackground checks, that if they
did something wrong, they wouldhave some sort of course, some
(09:10):
reaction would happen, whetherit's disciplinary, legal in any
way.
So it gave you a stronger senseof protection, versus just
hiring some random person out ofAfrica which a lot of people do
, venezuela as well and thenthey're just rolling the dice.
You don't know what you get,though you are getting it very
cheap.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so it sounds like going to Upwork or Fiverr.
You can go direct to folksoutside of the country.
You're just taking on someadditional risk there.
It might be cheaper, but thecost is hidden and it's the risk
of them not following through,not doing your process doing
something with the sensitivedata that you have access to,
(09:50):
that sort of thing with thesensitive data that you have
access to, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I've heard stories about virtual assistants that
were hired through Upwork, usingcredit cards, maxing them out
for their clients, stealingproprietary information and
starting their own company thatdid just the same thing as that
company did, and so I've heardall the horror stories I used to
always say at Telehelping wewere back-to-back lawsuit
champions.
We never lost a fight, whetherit was prosecuting someone who
(10:23):
did something that violatedtheir agreement or likewise.
There's also the ones whereclients take the people from you
, but we always protect ourclients and put a lot of money
into ensuring they're alwaysprotected.
You want those companiesbetween you and that
international freelancer.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That makes sense, that the folks that they have,
as it's a plug into yourbusiness, they have, like you
know, a certain level of english, that they speak a certain
level of education and training,so they've been vetted at some
(11:03):
level.
Before you know me, as thepainting business owner, even
gets to interact with them, willthey also help with like,
placing, like, if I hey, I needsomeone who can do some
marketing tasks, answer thephone, maybe do some phone calls
, outbound phone calls Do theyhelp place that if I give them
that information?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
or yeah, that's a great question and I can only
speak to what tele-helping did.
I know that industry practiceis to have a large group of
folks waiting and standing by tobe assigned to a person, so
it's more so having a solutionwaiting for a problem.
I think that's the mostmilitary way in the world to
(11:43):
look at things.
As two veterans, I like seeinga problem and drafting a
solution, and so a place liketelehelping, we used a jobs to
be done approach to things andwe was like, oh, what does the
client want to achieve?
And from that they woulddevelop a job description that
then would be applied through asearch, and so it would be
(12:03):
exactly what the client'slooking to achieve.
That would result in the personthat they'll end up
interviewing, one of the greatthings that we haven't.
We talked about just the hiringpiece.
But people are people and withpeople comes payroll, concerns
about payroll, hr concerns aboutperformance, concerned about
job security.
All these things that go intothe overhead of a human being in
(12:26):
a position is taken care of bythe BPO.
And so and they make sure thatreally the virtual staff members
only focus is whatever task youhave them doing.
That's their focus.
If it's payroll if it's, youknow, sick time, all those
vacation things all that's takencare of by the BPO so that you
can focus on making money.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, so you're only responsible for the monthly
payment to the BPO, startingsomewhere between $1,500 and
$2,000 per month approximately,and then whatever tasks you're
assigning your virtual assistant, like making sure they have
some processes to work with andstandard operating procedures
(13:14):
their operating procedures.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, and I'd like to go ahead and plug bookkeeping
for painters here, because wewould and don't shoot at me till
helping, but we would giveclients accountants from Mexico
all the time that, well, afull-time person, even from
Mexico, to do accounting was farmore than they would pay for
bookkeeping for paintingservices and because accountings
(13:38):
are very specialized and thenthey still wouldn't be able to
file the taxes.
That's a really expensive nicheplacement for a virtual staff
member.
You see that with you know inthe 2,500 plus range for that
and lawyers right.
But most people don't needthose particular placements.
People hiring an accountantfrom Mexico is most likely an
(13:59):
accounting firm who providesbookkeeping and taxes as a
service, or a lawyer who wantstranslation documents and drafts
.
Those hire those really specialones.
Everyone else I'd say 70% offolks they're hiring someone to
do general staff and they'realso doing marketing associated
with it, because it's in 2025,if you own a business, you're an
(14:22):
influencer.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah, social media is big Answer.
Speed to lead.
Making sure your Facebook,because it seems like when
someone looks into your business, if they see your Google
results, they'll also just checkout your Facebook page to see
what's going on there.
And if it has a bunch of beforeand afters of how you've blew
(14:45):
your clients away with amazingresults, they'll probably pick
up the phone and give you a call.
So, yeah, those things arereally.
They can be very impactful foryour business, especially if you
keep on top of them, doing itconsistently.
And as a painting business ownergrowing from $350, $500 to a
(15:08):
million or more, you won't havetime to do those daily tasks and
just getting that off yourplate will be a huge win and
you'll easily see the return oninvestment.
Because, we mentioned earlier,if you're missing a few phone
calls a month, that's probablycost you thousands of dollars.
You're probably missing one ortwo or maybe three phone calls a
(15:29):
month.
If you had someone alwaysanswering it, that would easily
cover the cost of that virtualassistant Just being able to
answer the phone every singletime, as opposed to missing when
you're trying to answer it andyou're missing a few phone calls
a month.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Correct, yeah, and if you're on the job site and
you're out quoting people andyou're focused on driving the
business to its growth, it'shard to sit by and wait for that
phone.
You know you're going to beputting money.
You know speed to lead was agreat example.
Many clients that I worked withhad the speed to lead problem,
because the truth of the matteris is most businesses aren't
(16:07):
incredibly unique, right, and ifyou're in the painting business
, you probably live in a citywhere there's another painting
business, right, and so you'recompeting for that person's
quote, and oftentimes I quote mybrother here the user, the
first person on the job, has thegreatest chance of closing the
deal, and missing that phonecall is half the battle.
(16:29):
Can't do it?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, what would you say are some common mistakes
that business owners make whentrying to hire an admin?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, one is not knowing what you're trying to
achieve.
Oftentimes we would have folkswho want to hire someone because
maybe they don't want to do atask, but they're like, oh, I'm
going to make them do this andlike, great, what are we trying
to accomplish here?
Like, well, I just don't wantto do it.
And so we would dissect kind ofthe intent of the client.
(17:02):
And oftentimes those who golooking for something, they find
that what they're looking forisn't the original thought
process they set out on.
They'll say I just needsomething to do marketing.
Well, marketing is entirely morecomplex than just marketing.
Sure, manage the Facebook, butwhere's the content coming from?
Who's writing the content?
(17:23):
Who's targeting the audience?
And so oftentimes, when peopleare looking for it, they find
out that what they need isdifferent than what they wanted.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play.
A good BPO, be very clear.
You go to most BPOs.
They will give you whatever youask for.
The BPOs who question you, pushback, dive a little deeper.
(17:46):
Those are the ones you want towork with, because they're
trying to get correct placementfirst, not the quickest
placement to get paid.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
That's a good point.
What would you say?
Because one of the objectionsI've heard before is folks have
a hesitancy to hire somebodyabroad, Even if it's just from
Mexico, that if you're like, oh,they're not going to be able to
speak English well enough to tobe understood, or there might
(18:19):
be just cultural differences.
But I guess what are somethings that you've learned.
You know what are theirbenefits to having someone
that's from a virtual assistantcoming from Mexico or some
similar country, as opposed totrying to find a local person to
help you.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, that's a great question, and that's exactly why
I only hired and operated mycall centers and people out of
Mexico, because most I'd say athird of the company was native
English speaking.
They were born in the UnitedStates, went to college in the
United States, and so they had ahigh degree of understanding
and everyone else who spokeEnglish.
(19:01):
If you don't know this, mostaffluent paths in life in Mexico
start with a bilingual school,and so the folks we're hiring
that are coming out ofuniversity, that are coming out
of other jobs, they've beenspeaking English since they were
kids, and so that's the greatthing about we don't see Mexico,
we see it as a foreign country,but we have to understand that
(19:21):
our paths in terms of culture,relationships, business are so
intertwined that it makes Mexicothe perfect partner for seeking
to have someone who iscompetent, who is skilled, but
is less expensive than their UScounterpart.
Now, folks in Mexico can getpricey, but even the most pricey
person that you'll get out ofMexico is going to come with a
(19:43):
greater amount of experience,education and yes, the English
than, say, someone at a similarprice in the United States.
You just can't beat it, and Iwould even go on a limb to say
now, with current tariffs beingimplemented, the power of the
dollar, the weakening of thepeso right now more than ever,
(20:04):
you're going to get Mexico at abargain, and people down there
want to work for strong Americancompanies where they know that
they can wake up.
Every day, monday throughFriday, they can show up
somewhere, they're going to getpaid, and that's what I love
about Mexico-based culture andwork.
If they're really good at theirjob, they're focusing on
(20:26):
keeping this job and staying init forever.
They're not sitting there.
Oh, I'm good at my job.
I want a better job.
That doesn't exist in so muchof the culture of Mexico,
because they think more aboutstability and longevity than
they do about hierarchicalprocess and rising.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
If you go with someone from Mexico, it sounds
like you could probably havethem for several years and
they'll be happy with thatconsistent work.
As long as they're doing thesame thing every day, that seems
like it fits in right in withtheir culture, not expecting to
like oh, I want to be COO atsome point, or something like
that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I'd actually say that finding those people
was very difficult in Mexico.
From the side of things ofrunning the company, the
headquarters side, I wantedbusiness leaders.
I want individual leadersworking for me directly because
I want to push down to the verylowest level the authority to
(21:24):
make choices and then pick fromthem with consequences.
Finding those people wasdifficult, finding the virtual
staff for the clients very easy,because they want someone who's
going to love their job andstick with it.
I'm looking for someone whoalways wants to push the
envelope, keep growing, makethings better, and when you're
(21:45):
trying to grow a rapid startupinto a multi-million dollar
giant, you need people who live,breathe and sleep the company
versus someone who's like giveme a job, I'm going to work this
, I'm going to do great at itand I'm going to be happy where
I'm at.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Cool, Awesome.
Well, what would you say to apainting business if they're
struggling with wearing all thehats and feel like they could
use a back office assistant,virtual assistant?
What do they need to do to takethe next steps?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
No, that's a great question.
And, first and foremost,realize that you aren't
experiencing something unique tojust you which helps you take
yourself out of your shoes.
There are a lot of paintingbusinesses, a lot of business in
general, that are going throughthe same thing.
You're hitting a bottleneckwith your task and in order to
continue the growth that you arethe health of yourself and
health of the business you needto put responsibilities outside
(22:38):
of your own self.
And I would say I spoke totelehelping before this.
And if you want to reach out,one thing that I implemented
back in my day as part of theplan was to not charge people
for looking for staff, and so ifyou just want to kick tires
right, they have a departmentcalled placement.
(22:59):
Their sole job is to make surethat they try to find people to
put in front of you to let youfill it out, and so if you reach
out to telehelping, you can goto info at telehelpingcom and
say Cody referred you One.
They'll give you a discount Iasked them to do so but also
they'll guide you through theprocess, help you identify the
(23:20):
role and they'll let you know ifwhat you're trying to
accomplish is best coupled witha virtual assistant.
One of the founding principlesI put on the company was not to
do things that we're not good at, and so if they don't believe
that a virtual staff member isgoing to be the right solution
for you, they will advise you inthe best direction.
Maybe it is a call answeringservices, maybe it's a marketing
(23:41):
service right, but if you'relooking for someone to kind of
wear a lot of hats that you'recurrently wearing, I suggest you
give away the hat.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Excellent, so that's info at telehelpingcom, correct?
All right, we'll include thatin the show notes as well, and
we we've used telehelping andbookkeeping for painters to do
marketing and a phone type tasksand they've always been great,
great placements.
So I definitely highlyrecommend, if you're looking for
somebody to help get thoseadmin tasks off your plate, give
(24:17):
telehealth a look and check out, give them an email, as Cody
said.
But I appreciate your timetoday, cody.
Are there any last thoughtsthat you'd like to give the
audience before we let you go?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, and I think this is very important for those
who are considering bookkeeperfor painters and looking for
accounting services or lookingfor general admin services.
You're great at what you do,but you can't do everything as
best as someone who'sspecialized in it, whether it's
your accounting, yourbookkeeping, or if it's having
someone whose daily job is tosit there to make sure things
(24:52):
get posted online and phones getanswered.
Just remember you're the leaderof the business, you're not the
business.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, excellent, all right With that.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
If you go to Facebook and typein grow your painting business,
send an invite to join the group, post your questions or any
thoughts for future episodes,love to hear from you.
And with that, we will talk toyou next week.
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners, helping themknow their numbers on what they
mean and save big in tax.
And today I'm really excited, Ihave Cody Hall here with us and
we're going to talk abouthiring a back office admin.
So I'm super excited to jumpinto the conversation.
But before we do, I'm going togo ahead and read through Cody
(00:22):
Hall's biography.
So Cody Hall has a diversebackground in the military,
technology and business thatmakes him capable of leading the
organization effectively.
Cody led customer service andhuman resource teams from an
early stage startup to industryleading tech giants, creating
benchmark customer experiencesand employee journeys for teams
(00:46):
large and small.
After his time with largerorganizations, he began to
impact fast-growing companies,starting and assisting multiple
startups in developingworld-class teams, customer
experience and technologyworkflows.
Years later, cody started andled a multinational business
processing organization, a BPO,supporting companies from Los
(01:10):
Angeles to Tel Aviv with variousremote staffing and call center
needs.
Now Cody leads marketing atBookkeeping for Painters and he
seeks to provide expertise topainters that need to know their
numbers and saving in taxes.
Super excited to have you here,cody.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thank you for having me, daniel.
I hope to live up to that bioman.
I don't know who wrote thatthing, but that thing sounds
nice.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I know I'm just super excited to talk to whoever owns
this bio Me too, me too, me too, so, yeah, so today we're going
to talk about how to getsomeone on your team to help you
get to the next level.
So a lot of painting businessesthat I work with they're between
(01:57):
like revenue of 350 to 1million and oftentimes there's
like a bottleneck in theircompany where they're trying to
wear all the hats and theyreally need someone to just do
some basic things like answerthe phone or send off some
invoices.
Organization help them out withthose simple tasks that can
(02:28):
really help that paintingbusiness owner free up their
time so they can focus on thingsthat are more important, like
marketing and sales, to growtheir business to the next level
.
And you have some expertise inthis field of placing people in
organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
do this, how can they do thiseffectively but also in the most
inexpensive way possible?
(02:49):
What are the biggest adminbottlenecks that slow a painting
business down that you've, andthen how can hiring solve them?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, daniel, you said it well At those stages.
Those stages exist in manyindustries, that 350 to 1
million where they're trying togrow the very thing that
themselves.
They sprouted from a seed rightand they found like, well, I've
done everything up to thispoint and now they're trying to
do that while growing, whilehaving a family and while trying
(03:22):
not to make mistakes.
And oftentimes we see it in thesmall things that don't
generate revenue.
It are the things thatoftentimes weigh people down.
This is something you know.
Talking about the accountingpiece, you know I myself speak
to many of the oncoming clientsfor bookkeepers or painters and
they're trying to grow theirbusiness right and they're
(03:43):
trying to get someone who has anexpertise on the painting and
the accounting side.
Well, it's just like that withthe virtual staffing piece.
You have phone calls coming in,you have things that need to be
filed, customers that need tobe followed up with invoices,
and a great example that youmentioned beforehand is many
people are spending a ton ofmoney on marketing and time.
They're posting shorts,recording podcasts, and when
(04:08):
those phone calls come in, theydon't have anybody to pick up
the phone and oftentimes, justlike you said and everyone here
listening I'm sure know, if youdon't get that phone the first
time, they're going to the nextperson on Google, the next
person on Google.
So having someone that kind ofsits in that intersection of
non-revenue producing tasks iswhat oftentimes people use a
(04:29):
virtual staff member for.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, it's huge, like what you mentioned in terms of
like those leads coming in, likeif you're too busy to answer
the phone, that's just costingyou a huge amount of money.
If your phone is ringing andyou're missing it and it's from
leads, I mean, just count up howmany missed calls you're
getting and you know, multiplythat by your close rate, you
(04:56):
know, and that's basically inwhat your average job size is,
so like, let's say, over thecourse of a month, if you're
still answering the phone, ifyou miss like 10 phone calls,
which is, you know, may notsound like a lot to some, but
let's say you miss 10 phonecalls and if they were all leads
that were coming in and youhave like a 50% close rate,
(05:17):
that's five jobs.
If you have average job size of$5,000, let's say that's
$25,000.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know one thing, youknow like.
The highlight is oftentimespeople hear that like well,
great, I'll get a phoneanswering service.
Uh, you know, I caution youthere as well.
Um, having a phone answeringservice and a staff a dedicated
staff member oftentimes costsabout the same.
The difference is is having adedicated staff member, you'll
have someone who knows yourbusiness right.
(05:45):
You'll be able to coach them onhow to communicate to your
clients the way you want yourclients to be communicated with,
where an answering service willjust answer the phone, put them
on a spreadsheet for you andsay, hey, call them back later.
You also have the side ofthings where you can give that
person additional tasks.
While they're waiting for thatphone to be ringing, they could
be doing whatever you want forthem Updating your Facebook,
(06:08):
updating your LinkedIn, updatingyour website.
You can have that person bemultifaceted, which oftentimes
in my experience with myprevious organization, was that,
regardless of the industry thatour folks would find themselves
in they often were a generalmarketer would be the best way
to describe it.
They did a little bit ofeverything and they yeah, it's
(06:32):
huge.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
And I think a lot of hesitation for painting business
owners that I've spoke to isone they're not sure where to go
to get this.
And then two, they're concernedabout the costs.
I have projects like I getcrews, but having a full-time
person or maybe even justpart-time, but part-time to
(07:01):
full-time person in the businessevery day that might be, oh man
, that seems like it's going tobe a lot of money that's coming
out of their pocket.
So what would you say to folks?
Where can you find people tofill this role and what are you
looking at in terms of cost?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
No great question, and I'll talk about the cost
that you're going to be paying,not the opportunity cost you'll
have by missing phone calls andthings like that, because that's
out there as well.
You have two paths and thefirst one is one I don't
recommend because I've seen itgo arise so many times.
It's hiring a freelancer.
You can go to Fiverr or manyother freelancer-based pages and
(07:45):
hire someone for $500 a month.
They'll be out of South Africaor some Southeast Asian-based
country and you'll spend $500 amonth and you'll get somebody
who will work for you.
That's on the really low end.
However, oftentimes we foundourselves my previous
organization.
(08:06):
We were a value-basedorganization, not a cost
competitor, and so we were about$1,500 a month was our average
spend.
Actually can't even say it wasaverage.
That was our lowest entry pointwas about $1,500 per month, and
that was because we were hiringstraight out of Mexico.
(08:26):
English SC1 was requirementtested, written and verbal.
We also required educationverification, so everyone had a
degree.
So you can get a variety ofpeople, but I would caution
people to go straight to afreelancer because you have no
protection there.
You're going to entrust thisperson to answer your phone,
(08:46):
emails and maybe even makepayments for you and send
invoices.
You're going to want someonethere to guarantee your
protection and support, which iswhat a BPO is, a business
processing organization.
At Telehelp, my previousorganization, that company would
ensure that the people hadbackground checks, that if they
did something wrong, they wouldhave some sort of course, some
(09:10):
reaction would happen, whetherit's disciplinary, legal in any
way.
So it gave you a stronger senseof protection, versus just
hiring some random person out ofAfrica which a lot of people do
, venezuela as well and thenthey're just rolling the dice.
You don't know what you get,though you are getting it very
cheap.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, so it sounds like going to Upwork or Fiverr.
You can go direct to folksoutside of the country.
You're just taking on someadditional risk there.
It might be cheaper, but thecost is hidden and it's the risk
of them not following through,not doing your process doing
something with the sensitivedata that you have access to,
(09:50):
that sort of thing with thesensitive data that you have
access to, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I've heard stories about virtual assistants that
were hired through Upwork, usingcredit cards, maxing them out
for their clients, stealingproprietary information and
starting their own company thatdid just the same thing as that
company did, and so I've heardall the horror stories I used to
always say at Telehelping wewere back-to-back lawsuit
champions.
We never lost a fight, whetherit was prosecuting someone who
(10:23):
did something that violatedtheir agreement or likewise.
There's also the ones whereclients take the people from you
, but we always protect ourclients and put a lot of money
into ensuring they're alwaysprotected.
You want those companiesbetween you and that
international freelancer.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That makes sense, that the folks that they have,
as it's a plug into yourbusiness, they have, like you
know, a certain level of english, that they speak a certain
level of education and training,so they've been vetted at some
(11:03):
level.
Before you know me, as thepainting business owner, even
gets to interact with them, willthey also help with like,
placing, like, if I hey, I needsomeone who can do some
marketing tasks, answer thephone, maybe do some phone calls
, outbound phone calls Do theyhelp place that if I give them
that information?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
or yeah, that's a great question and I can only
speak to what tele-helping did.
I know that industry practiceis to have a large group of
folks waiting and standing by tobe assigned to a person, so
it's more so having a solutionwaiting for a problem.
I think that's the mostmilitary way in the world to
(11:43):
look at things.
As two veterans, I like seeinga problem and drafting a
solution, and so a place liketelehelping, we used a jobs to
be done approach to things andwe was like, oh, what does the
client want to achieve?
And from that they woulddevelop a job description that
then would be applied through asearch, and so it would be
(12:03):
exactly what the client'slooking to achieve.
That would result in the personthat they'll end up
interviewing, one of the greatthings that we haven't.
We talked about just the hiringpiece.
But people are people and withpeople comes payroll, concerns
about payroll, hr concerns aboutperformance, concerned about
job security.
All these things that go intothe overhead of a human being in
(12:26):
a position is taken care of bythe BPO.
And so and they make sure thatreally the virtual staff members
only focus is whatever task youhave them doing.
That's their focus.
If it's payroll if it's, youknow, sick time, all those
vacation things all that's takencare of by the BPO so that you
can focus on making money.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, so you're only responsible for the monthly
payment to the BPO, startingsomewhere between $1,500 and
$2,000 per month approximately,and then whatever tasks you're
assigning your virtual assistant, like making sure they have
some processes to work with andstandard operating procedures
(13:14):
their operating procedures.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, and I'd like to go ahead and plug bookkeeping
for painters here, because wewould and don't shoot at me till
helping, but we would giveclients accountants from Mexico
all the time that, well, afull-time person, even from
Mexico, to do accounting was farmore than they would pay for
bookkeeping for paintingservices and because accountings
(13:38):
are very specialized and thenthey still wouldn't be able to
file the taxes.
That's a really expensive nicheplacement for a virtual staff
member.
You see that with you know inthe 2,500 plus range for that
and lawyers right.
But most people don't needthose particular placements.
People hiring an accountantfrom Mexico is most likely an
(13:59):
accounting firm who providesbookkeeping and taxes as a
service, or a lawyer who wantstranslation documents and drafts
.
Those hire those really specialones.
Everyone else I'd say 70% offolks they're hiring someone to
do general staff and they'realso doing marketing associated
with it, because it's in 2025,if you own a business, you're an
(14:22):
influencer.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah, social media is big Answer.
Speed to lead.
Making sure your Facebook,because it seems like when
someone looks into your business, if they see your Google
results, they'll also just checkout your Facebook page to see
what's going on there.
And if it has a bunch of beforeand afters of how you've blew
(14:45):
your clients away with amazingresults, they'll probably pick
up the phone and give you a call.
So, yeah, those things arereally.
They can be very impactful foryour business, especially if you
keep on top of them, doing itconsistently.
And as a painting business ownergrowing from $350, $500 to a
(15:08):
million or more, you won't havetime to do those daily tasks and
just getting that off yourplate will be a huge win and
you'll easily see the return oninvestment.
Because, we mentioned earlier,if you're missing a few phone
calls a month, that's probablycost you thousands of dollars.
You're probably missing one ortwo or maybe three phone calls a
(15:29):
month.
If you had someone alwaysanswering it, that would easily
cover the cost of that virtualassistant Just being able to
answer the phone every singletime, as opposed to missing when
you're trying to answer it andyou're missing a few phone calls
a month.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Correct, yeah, and if you're on the job site and
you're out quoting people andyou're focused on driving the
business to its growth, it'shard to sit by and wait for that
phone.
You know you're going to beputting money.
You know speed to lead was agreat example.
Many clients that I worked withhad the speed to lead problem,
because the truth of the matteris is most businesses aren't
(16:07):
incredibly unique, right, and ifyou're in the painting business
, you probably live in a citywhere there's another painting
business, right, and so you'recompeting for that person's
quote, and oftentimes I quote mybrother here the user, the
first person on the job, has thegreatest chance of closing the
deal, and missing that phonecall is half the battle.
(16:29):
Can't do it?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, what would you say are some common mistakes
that business owners make whentrying to hire an admin?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, one is not knowing what you're trying to
achieve.
Oftentimes we would have folkswho want to hire someone because
maybe they don't want to do atask, but they're like, oh, I'm
going to make them do this andlike, great, what are we trying
to accomplish here?
Like, well, I just don't wantto do it.
And so we would dissect kind ofthe intent of the client.
(17:02):
And oftentimes those who golooking for something, they find
that what they're looking forisn't the original thought
process they set out on.
They'll say I just needsomething to do marketing.
Well, marketing is entirely morecomplex than just marketing.
Sure, manage the Facebook, butwhere's the content coming from?
Who's writing the content?
(17:23):
Who's targeting the audience?
And so oftentimes, when peopleare looking for it, they find
out that what they need isdifferent than what they wanted.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play.
A good BPO, be very clear.
You go to most BPOs.
They will give you whatever youask for.
The BPOs who question you, pushback, dive a little deeper.
(17:46):
Those are the ones you want towork with, because they're
trying to get correct placementfirst, not the quickest
placement to get paid.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
That's a good point.
What would you say?
Because one of the objectionsI've heard before is folks have
a hesitancy to hire somebodyabroad, Even if it's just from
Mexico, that if you're like, oh,they're not going to be able to
speak English well enough to tobe understood, or there might
(18:19):
be just cultural differences.
But I guess what are somethings that you've learned.
You know what are theirbenefits to having someone
that's from a virtual assistantcoming from Mexico or some
similar country, as opposed totrying to find a local person to
help you.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, that's a great question, and that's exactly why
I only hired and operated mycall centers and people out of
Mexico, because most I'd say athird of the company was native
English speaking.
They were born in the UnitedStates, went to college in the
United States, and so they had ahigh degree of understanding
and everyone else who spokeEnglish.
(19:01):
If you don't know this, mostaffluent paths in life in Mexico
start with a bilingual school,and so the folks we're hiring
that are coming out ofuniversity, that are coming out
of other jobs, they've beenspeaking English since they were
kids, and so that's the greatthing about we don't see Mexico,
we see it as a foreign country,but we have to understand that
(19:21):
our paths in terms of culture,relationships, business are so
intertwined that it makes Mexicothe perfect partner for seeking
to have someone who iscompetent, who is skilled, but
is less expensive than their UScounterpart.
Now, folks in Mexico can getpricey, but even the most pricey
person that you'll get out ofMexico is going to come with a
(19:43):
greater amount of experience,education and yes, the English
than, say, someone at a similarprice in the United States.
You just can't beat it, and Iwould even go on a limb to say
now, with current tariffs beingimplemented, the power of the
dollar, the weakening of thepeso right now more than ever,
(20:04):
you're going to get Mexico at abargain, and people down there
want to work for strong Americancompanies where they know that
they can wake up.
Every day, monday throughFriday, they can show up
somewhere, they're going to getpaid, and that's what I love
about Mexico-based culture andwork.
If they're really good at theirjob, they're focusing on
(20:26):
keeping this job and staying init forever.
They're not sitting there.
Oh, I'm good at my job.
I want a better job.
That doesn't exist in so muchof the culture of Mexico,
because they think more aboutstability and longevity than
they do about hierarchicalprocess and rising.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
If you go with someone from Mexico, it sounds
like you could probably havethem for several years and
they'll be happy with thatconsistent work.
As long as they're doing thesame thing every day, that seems
like it fits in right in withtheir culture, not expecting to
like oh, I want to be COO atsome point, or something like
that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, I'd actually say that finding those people
was very difficult in Mexico.
From the side of things ofrunning the company, the
headquarters side, I wantedbusiness leaders.
I want individual leadersworking for me directly because
I want to push down to the verylowest level the authority to
(21:24):
make choices and then pick fromthem with consequences.
Finding those people wasdifficult, finding the virtual
staff for the clients very easy,because they want someone who's
going to love their job andstick with it.
I'm looking for someone whoalways wants to push the
envelope, keep growing, makethings better, and when you're
(21:45):
trying to grow a rapid startupinto a multi-million dollar
giant, you need people who live,breathe and sleep the company
versus someone who's like giveme a job, I'm going to work this
, I'm going to do great at itand I'm going to be happy where
I'm at.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Cool, Awesome.
Well, what would you say to apainting business if they're
struggling with wearing all thehats and feel like they could
use a back office assistant,virtual assistant?
What do they need to do to takethe next steps?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
No, that's a great question.
And, first and foremost,realize that you aren't
experiencing something unique tojust you which helps you take
yourself out of your shoes.
There are a lot of paintingbusinesses, a lot of business in
general, that are going throughthe same thing.
You're hitting a bottleneckwith your task and in order to
continue the growth that you arethe health of yourself and
health of the business you needto put responsibilities outside
(22:38):
of your own self.
And I would say I spoke totelehelping before this.
And if you want to reach out,one thing that I implemented
back in my day as part of theplan was to not charge people
for looking for staff, and so ifyou just want to kick tires
right, they have a departmentcalled placement.
(22:59):
Their sole job is to make surethat they try to find people to
put in front of you to let youfill it out, and so if you reach
out to telehelping, you can goto info at telehelpingcom and
say Cody referred you One.
They'll give you a discount Iasked them to do so but also
they'll guide you through theprocess, help you identify the
(23:20):
role and they'll let you know ifwhat you're trying to
accomplish is best coupled witha virtual assistant.
One of the founding principlesI put on the company was not to
do things that we're not good at, and so if they don't believe
that a virtual staff member isgoing to be the right solution
for you, they will advise you inthe best direction.
Maybe it is a call answeringservices, maybe it's a marketing
(23:41):
service right, but if you'relooking for someone to kind of
wear a lot of hats that you'recurrently wearing, I suggest you
give away the hat.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Excellent, so that's info at telehelpingcom, correct?
All right, we'll include thatin the show notes as well, and
we we've used telehelping andbookkeeping for painters to do
marketing and a phone type tasksand they've always been great,
great placements.
So I definitely highlyrecommend, if you're looking for
somebody to help get thoseadmin tasks off your plate, give
(24:17):
telehealth a look and check out, give them an email, as Cody
said.
But I appreciate your timetoday, cody.
Are there any last thoughtsthat you'd like to give the
audience before we let you go?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, and I think this is very important for those
who are considering bookkeeperfor painters and looking for
accounting services or lookingfor general admin services.
You're great at what you do,but you can't do everything as
best as someone who'sspecialized in it, whether it's
your accounting, yourbookkeeping, or if it's having
someone whose daily job is tosit there to make sure things
(24:52):
get posted online and phones getanswered.
Just remember you're the leaderof the business, you're not the
business.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, excellent, all right With that.
I'd love to hear your thoughts.
If you go to Facebook and typein grow your painting business,
send an invite to join the group, post your questions or any
thoughts for future episodes,love to hear from you.
And with that, we will talk toyou next week.
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