March 12, 2025 • 25 mins
Cody Hall shares invaluable strategies for painting business owners struggling with administrative bottlenecks, explaining how hiring a virtual assistant can dramatically improve operations and revenue potential for businesses in the $350K-$1M range.
• Virtual administrative support helps painting business owners stop wearing all the hats
• Missing just 10 phone calls monthly could cost a painting business $25,000 in lost revenue
• Phone answering services often cost the same as dedicated virtual staff but provide less value
• Virtual assistants typically cost $1,500-$2,000/month through reputable BPOs
• Hiring freelancers directly through platforms like Fiverr is cheaper but comes with significant risks
• Business Process Organizations (BPOs) provide critical protection, vetting, and HR support
• Mexican virtual staff typically have excellent English skills and value long-term employment stability
• Common hiring mistake: not clearly defining what you're trying to achieve with administrative help
• Focus on your strengths as a business leader rather than trying to do everything yourself
If you're interested in exploring virtual staffing options, contact info@telehelping.com and mention this podcast for special consideration.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting businessFrom the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
(00:43):
This is Daniel, the founder ofBookkeeping for Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners, helping themknow their numbers on what they
mean and save big in tax.
And today I'm really excited.
I have Cody Hall here with usand we're going to talk about
hiring a back office admin.
So I'm super excited to jumpinto the conversation.
But before we do, I'm going togo ahead and read through Cody
(01:04):
Hall's biography.
So Cody Hall has a diversebackground in the military,
technology and business thatmakes him capable of leading the
organization effectively.
Cody led customer service andhuman resource teams from an
early stage startup to industryleading tech giants, creating
benchmark customer experiencesand employee journeys for teams
(01:28):
large and small.
After his time with largerorganizations, he began to
impact fast-growing companies,starting and assisting multiple
startups in developingworld-class teams, customer
experience and technologyworkflows.
Years later, cody started andled a multinational business
processing organization, a BPO,supporting companies from Los
(01:52):
Angeles to Tel Aviv with variousremote staffing and call center
needs.
Now Cody leads marketing atBookkeeping for Painters and he
seeks to provide expertise topainters that need to know their
numbers and saving in taxes.
Super excited to have you here,cody.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Thank you for having me, daniel.
I hope to live up to that bioman.
I don't know who wrote thatthing, but that thing sounds
nice.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know I'm just super excited to talk to whoever owns
this bio Me too, to talk towhoever owns this bio yeah, me
too, so yeah.
So today we're going to talkabout how to get someone on your
team to help you get to thenext level.
So a lot of painting businessesthat I work with they're between
(02:39):
like revenue of 350 to 1million and oftentimes there's a
bottleneck in their companywhere they're trying to wear all
the hats and they really needsomeone to just do some basic
things like answer the phone orsend off some invoices.
But they're doing everythingand they just need someone to
(03:01):
come in the organization helpthem out with those simple tasks
that can really help that painbusiness owner free up their
time so they can focus on thingsthat are more important, like
marketing and sales, to growtheir business to the next level
.
And you have some expertise inthis field of placing people in
organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
(03:23):
do this organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
do this, how can they do thiseffectively but also in the most
inexpensive way possible.
What are the biggest adminbottlenecks that slow a painting
business down that you've?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And then how can hiring solve them?
Yeah, daniel, you said it wellAt those stages.
Those stages exist in manyindustries, that 350 to 1
million where they're trying togrow the very thing that
themselves.
They sprouted from a seed andthey found out.
Well, I've done everything upto this point and now they're
trying to do that while growing,while having a family and while
trying not to make mistakes.
And oftentimes we see it in thesmall things that don't
(04:10):
generate revenue.
They are the things thatoftentimes weigh people down.
This is something talking aboutthe accounting piece.
I myself speak to many of theoncoming clients for bookkeepers
or painters and they're tryingto grow their business right and
they're trying to get someonewho has an expertise on the
painting and the accounting side.
Well, it's just like that withthe virtual staffing piece.
(04:32):
You have phone calls coming in,you have things that need to be
filed, customers that need tobe followed up with invoices,
and a great example that youmentioned beforehand is many
people are spending a ton ofmoney on marketing right and
time.
They're posting shorts,recording podcasts, and when
those phone calls come in, theydon't have anybody to pick up
(04:52):
the phone and oftentimes, justlike you said and everyone here
listening, I'm sure know, if youdon't get that phone the first
time, they're going to the nextperson on Google and the next
person on Google.
So having someone that sits inthat intersection of non-revenue
producing tasks is whatoftentimes people use.
A virtual staff member forRobert Leonard.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, it's huge what you mentioned in terms of those
leads coming in.
If you're too busy to answerthe phone, that's just costing
you a huge amount of money.
If your phone is ringing andyou're missing it and it's from
leads, I mean, just count up howmany missed calls you're
getting and multiply that byyour close rate and that's
(05:37):
basically what your average jobsize is.
So let's say, over the courseof a month, if you're still
answering the phone, if you miss10 phone calls, which is it may
not sound like a lot to some,but let's say you missed 10
phone calls and if they were allleads that were coming in and
you have a 50% close rate,that's 5 jobs.
(05:58):
If you have an average job sizeof $5,000, let's say that's
$25,000.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And one thing, dan, I'd like to highlight is
oftentimes people hear that like, well, great, I'll get a phone
answering service.
I caution you there as well.
Having a phone answeringservice and a dedicated staff
member oftentimes cost about thesame.
The difference is having adedicated staff member.
You'll have someone who knowsyour business.
You'll be able to coach them onhow to communicate to your
(06:28):
clients the way you want yourclients to be communicated with,
where an answering service willjust answer the phone, put them
on a spreadsheet for you andsay, hey, call them back later.
You also have the side ofthings where you can get that
person additional tasks.
While they're waiting for thatphone to be ringing, they could
be doing whatever you want forthem updating your Facebook,
(06:48):
updating your LinkedIn, updatingyour website.
You can have that person bemultifaceted, which oftentimes,
in my experience with myprevious organization, was that,
regardless of the industry thatour folks would find themselves
in they often were a generalmarketer would be the best way
to describe it.
They did a little bit ofeverything and they did a little
bit of marketing.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it's huge.
And I think a lot of hesitationfor painting business owners
that I've spoke to is onethey're not sure where to go to
get this.
And then two, they're concernedabout the cost Bringing on
somebody to be full-time intheir business.
They might have hired paintersbefore and it of like a
(07:28):
straightforward okay, I haveprojects, I get crews, but
having a full-time person, ormaybe even just part-time, but
part-time to full-time person inthe business every day, that
might be, oh man, that seemslike it's going to be a lot of
money that's coming out of theirpocket.
So what would you say to folks?
(07:49):
Where can you find people tofill this role and what are you
looking at in terms of cost?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
No great question, and I'll talk about the cost
that you're going to be paying,not the opportunity cost you'll
have by missing phone calls andthings like that, because that's
out there as well.
You have two paths and thefirst one is one I don't
recommend because I've seen itgo arise so many times.
It's hiring a freelancer.
You can go to Fiverr or manyother freelancer-based pages and
(08:24):
hire someone for $500 a month.
They'll be out of South Africaor some Southeast Asian-based
country and you'll spend $500 amonth and you'll get somebody
who will work for you.
That's on the really low end.
However, oftentimes we foundourselves my previous
organization.
(08:44):
We were a value-basedorganization, not a cost
competitor, and so we were about$1,500 a month was our average
spend.
Actually, can you say it wasaverage.
That was our lowest entry pointwas about $1,500 per month, and
that was because we were hiringstraight out of Mexico.
(09:04):
English SC1 was requirementtested, written and verbal.
We also required educationverification, so everyone had a
degree.
So you can get a variety ofpeople, but I would caution
people to go straight to afreelancer because you have no
protection there.
You're going to entrust thisperson to answer your phone,
(09:24):
emails and maybe even makepayments for you and send
invoices.
You're going to want someonethere to guarantee your
protection and support, which iswhat a BPO is, a business
processing organization.
At Telehealth, my previousorganization, that company would
ensure that the people hadbackground checks, that if they
did something wrong, they wouldhave some sort of course, some
(09:48):
reaction would happen, whetherit's disciplinary, legal in any
way.
So it gave you a stronger senseof protection, versus just
hiring some random person out ofAfrica which a lot of people do
, venezuela as well and thenthey're just rolling the dice.
You don't know what you get,though you are getting it very
cheap.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, so it sounds like going to Upwork or Fiverr.
You can go direct to folksoutside of the country.
You're just taking on someadditional risk there.
It might be cheaper, but thecost is hidden and it's the risk
of them not following through,not doing your process doing
something with the sensitivedata that you have access to,
(10:28):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I've heard stories about virtual assistants that
were hired through Upwork, usingcredit cards, maxing them out
for their clients, stealingproprietary information and
starting their own company thatdid just the same thing as that
company did, and so I've heardall the horror stories.
I used to always say attelehelping we were back-to-back
(10:50):
lawsuit champions.
We never lost a fight, whetherit was prosecuting sorry, not
persecuting, sorry, prosecutingdifferent word prosecuting
someone who did something thatviolated their agreement, or
likewise.
There's also the ones whereclients take the people from you
, but we always our clients andand put a lot of money into
(11:13):
insuring they're alwaysprotected.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
you want those companies between you and that
international freelancer thatmakes sense and so, like you
said, a company like telehealthwill make sure that the folks
that they have as to plug intoyour business, they have a
certain level of English, thatthey speak a certain level of
(11:36):
education and training, sothey've been vetted at some
level before me as a paintingbusiness owner even gets to
interact with them.
Will they also help withplacing If I say, hey, I need
someone who can do somemarketing tasks, answer the
phone, maybe do some phone calls, outbound phone calls Do they
(11:59):
help place that if I give themthat information?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That's a great question and I can only speak to
what tele-helping did.
I know that industry practiceis to have a large group of
folks waiting and standing by tobe assigned to a person, so
it's more so having a solutionwaiting for a problem.
I think that's the mostmilitary way in the world to
look at things.
(12:22):
As two veterans, I like seeinga problem and drafting a
solution, and so a place liketele-helping we used a jobs to
be done approach to things andwe was like so a place like
telehelping, we used a jobs tobe done approach to things and
we was like, okay, what does theclient want to achieve?
And from that they woulddevelop a job description that
then would be applied through asearch and so it would be
exactly what the client'slooking to achieve.
(12:43):
That would result in the personthat they'll end up
interviewing One of the greatthings that we haven't.
We talk about just the hiringpiece, but people are people and
with people comes payroll,concerns about payroll, hr
concerns about performance,concerns about job security All
these things that go into theoverhead of a human being in a
(13:04):
position is taken care of by theBPO and they make sure that
really the virtual staff membersonly focus is whatever task you
have them doing, that's theirfocus.
If it's payroll, if it's youknow, sick time, all those
vacation things, all that'staken care of by the BPO so that
you can focus on making money.
(13:26):
So you're only responsible forthe monthly payment to the BPO,
starting somewhere between$1,500 and $2,000 per month
approximately, and then whatevertasks you're assigning your
virtual assistant, like makingsure they have some processes to
work with and standardoperating procedures- yeah, and
(13:48):
I like to go ahead and plugbookkeeping for painters here,
because we would and don't shootat me till helping, but we
would give clients accountantsfrom Mexico all the time that,
well, a full-time person, evenfrom Mexico, to do accounting
was far more than they would payfor bookkeeping, for painting
(14:12):
services, and becauseaccountants are very specialized
, and then they still wouldn'tbe able to file the taxes.
That's a really expensive nicheplacement for a virtual staff
member.
You see that, with the 2,500plus range for that.
And lawyers right, but mostpeople don't need those
particular placements.
That and lawyers right, butmost people don't need those
(14:34):
particular placements.
People hiring an accountant fromMexico is most likely an
accounting firm who providesbookkeeping and taxes as a
service, or a lawyer who wantstranslation documents and drafts
.
Those hire those really specialones.
Everyone else I'd say 70% offolks they're hiring someone to
do general staff and they'realso doing marketing associated
(14:55):
with it, because in 2025, if youown a business, you're an
influencer.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, social media is big Speed to lead.
Making sure your Facebook,because it seems like when
someone looks into your business, if they see your Google
results, they'll also just checkout your Facebook page to see
what's going on there.
And if it has a bunch of beforeand afters of how you've blew
your clients away with amazingresults, they'll probably pick
(15:25):
up the phone and give you a call.
So, yeah, those things arereally.
They can be very impactful foryour business, especially if you
keep on top of them, doing itconsistently.
And as a painting businessowner growing from $350, $500 to
a million or more, you won'thave time to do those daily
(15:45):
tasks and just getting that offyour plate will be a huge win
and you'll easily see the returnon investment.
Because, we mentioned earlier,if you're missing a few phone
calls a month, that's probablycost you thousands of dollars.
You're probably missing one ortwo or maybe three phone calls a
month.
If you had someone alwaysanswering it, that would easily
(16:06):
cover the cost of that virtualassistant Just being able to
answer the phone every singletime, as opposed to missing when
you're trying to answer it andyou're missing a few phone calls
a month.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Correct, yeah, and if you're on the job site and
you're out quoting people andyou're focused on driving the
business to its growth, it'shard to sit by and wait for that
phone You're going to beputting money.
Speed to Lead was a greatexample.
Many clients that I worked withhad the speed to lead problem,
because the truth of the matteris is most businesses aren't
(16:40):
incredibly unique, and if you'rein the painting business, you
probably live in a city wherethere's another painting
business and so you're competingfor that person's quote, and
oftentimes I quote my brotherhere the user, the first person
on the job, has the greatestchance of closing the deal, and
missing that phone call is halfthe battle.
(17:03):
Can't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
What would you say are some common mistakes that
business owners make when tryingto hire an admin?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
mistakes that business owners make when trying
to hire an admin.
Yeah, one is not knowing whatyou're trying to achieve.
Oftentimes we would have folkswho want to hire someone because
maybe they don't want to do atask, but they're like I'm going
to make them do this and like,great, what are we trying to
accomplish here?
Like I just don't want to do it.
And so we would dissect, kindof the intent of the client.
(17:34):
And oftentimes those who golooking for something they find
that what they're looking forisn't the original thought
process they set out on.
They'll say I just needsomething to do marketing.
Well, marketing is entirely morecomplex than just marketing.
Sure, manage the Facebook, butwhere's the content coming from?
Who's writing the content?
(17:54):
Who's targeting the audience?
And so oftentimes, when peopleare looking for it, they find
out that what they need isdifferent than what they wanted.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play.
A good BPO, be very clear.
You go to most BPOs.
They will give you whatever youask for.
The BPOs who question you, pushback, dive a little deeper.
(18:18):
Those are the ones you want towork with, because they're
trying to get correct placementfirst, not the quickest
placement to get paid.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Hmm, that's a good point.
What would you say?
Because one of the objectionsI've heard before is like folks
have a hesitancy to hiresomebody abroad, like even if
it's just from Mexico, they feellike, oh, they're not gonna be
able to speak English wellenough to be understood, or
(18:50):
there might be just culturaldifferences.
But I guess what are somethings that you've learned?
Are there benefits to havingsomeone that's from a virtual
assistant coming from Mexico orsome similar country, as opposed
to trying to find a localperson to help you?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, that's a great question, and that's exactly why
I only hired and operated mycall centers and people out of
Mexico, because most I'd say athird of the company was native
English speaking.
They were born in the UnitedStates, went to college in the
United States, and so they had ahigh degree of understanding
and everyone else who spokeEnglish.
(19:32):
If you don't know this, mostaffluent paths in life in Mexico
start with a bilingual school,and so the folks we're hiring
that are coming out ofuniversity, that are coming out
of other jobs, they've beenspeaking English since they were
kids, and so that's the greatthing about we don't see Mexico.
We see it is a foreign country,but we have to understand that
(19:53):
our paths in terms of culture,relationships, business are so
intertwined that it makes Mexicothe perfect partner for seeking
to have someone who iscompetent, who is skilled, but
is less expensive than their UScounterpart.
Now, folks in Mexico can getpricey, but even the most pricey
person that you'll get out ofMexico is going to come with a
(20:15):
greater amount of experience,education and yes, the English
than, say, someone at a similarprice in the United States.
You just can't beat it.
I would even go on a limb to saynow, with current tariffs being
implemented, the power of thedollar, the weakening of the
peso right now more than ever,you're going to get Mexico at a
(20:36):
bargain, and people down therewant to work for strong American
companies where they know thatthey can wake up.
Every day, monday throughFriday, they can show up
somewhere, they're going to getpaid, and that's what I love
about Mexico-based culture andwork.
If they're really good at theirjob, they're focusing on
(20:57):
keeping this job and staying init forever.
They're not sitting there.
Oh, I'm good at my job.
I want a better job.
That doesn't exist in so muchof the culture of Mexico,
because they think more aboutstability and longevity than
they do about hierarchicalprocess and rising so if you, if
you go with someone from mexico, it sounds like you could you
(21:20):
probably have them for severalyears and they'll be.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
They'll be happy with that consistent work as long
you know doing the same thingevery day.
That that seems like fits inright in with their culture, not
expecting to like, oh, I wantto be ceo at some point, or
something like that yeah, I'dactually say that finding those
people was very difficult inmexico.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Um, uh, you know, from the side of things of
running the company, theheadquarters side, I wanted
business leaders like I wantindividual leaders working for
me directly, because I want topush down to the very lowest
level the authority to makechoices and then pick from them
with consequences.
Finding those people wasdifficult, finding the virtual
(22:03):
staff for the clients very easy,because they want someone who's
going to love their job andstick with it.
I'm looking for someone whoalways wants to push the
envelope, keep growing, makethings better, and when you're
trying to grow a rapid startupinto a multi-million dollar
giant, you need people who live,breathe and sleep the company,
(22:24):
versus someone who's like giveme a job, I'm going to work this
, I'm going to do great at itand I'm going to be happy where
I'm at.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Cool, awesome.
Well, what would you say to apainting business if they're
struggling with wearing all thehats and feel like they could
use a back office assistant,virtual assistant?
What do they need to do to takethe next steps?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
No, that's a great question.
And, first and foremost,realize that you aren't
experiencing something unique tojust you which helps you take
yourself out of your shoes.
There are a lot of paintingbusinesses, a lot of business in
general, that are going throughthe same thing.
You're hitting a bottleneckwith your task and in order to
continue the growth that you arethe health of yourself and
health of the business you needto put responsibilities outside
(23:10):
of your own self.
And I would say you know Ispoke to telehelping before this
and you know, if you want toreach out, one thing that I
implemented back in my day aspart of the plan was to not
charge people for looking forstaff, and so if you just want
to kick tires right, they have adepartment called placement
(23:30):
that their sole job is to makesure that they try to find
people to put in front of you tolet you fill it out, and so if
you reach out to telehelping,you can get info at
telehelpingcom and say Codyreferred you One.
They'll give you a discount Iasked them to do so but also
they'll guide you through theprocess, help you identify the
(23:52):
role and they'll let you know ifwhat you're trying to
accomplish is best coupled witha virtual assistant.
One of the founding principlesI put on the company was not to
do things that we're not good at, and so if they don't believe
that a virtual staff member isgoing to be the right solution
for you, they will advise you inthe best direction.
Maybe it is a call answeringservices, maybe it's a marketing
(24:13):
service, but if you're lookingfor someone to wear a lot of
hats that you're currentlywearing, I suggest you give away
the hat.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Excellent.
So that's info attelehelpingcom Correct.
All right, we'll include thatin the show notes as well.
And we've used telehelping andbookkeeping for painters to do
marketing and phone type tasksand they've always been great,
great placements.
So I definitely highlyrecommend if you're looking for
(24:44):
somebody to help get those admintasks off your plate, give
Telehelp a look and check out.
Give them an email, as Codysaid.
But I appreciate your timetoday, cody.
Are there any last thoughtsthat you'd like to give the
audience before we let you go,cody?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Nguyen.
Yeah, and I think this is veryimportant for those who are
considering bookkeeping forpainters and looking for
accounting services or lookingfor general admin services.
You're great at what you do,but you can't do everything as
best as someone who'sspecialized in it, whether it's
your accounting, yourbookkeeping, or if it's having
someone whose daily job is tosit there to make sure things
(25:23):
get posted online and phones getanswered.
Just remember you're the leaderof the business, you're not the
business.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
All right With that.
I love to hear your thoughts.
If you go to Facebook and typein Grow, your Painting Business,
send an invite to join thegroup, Post your questions or
any thoughts for future episodes.
Love to hear from you.
And with that, we will talk toyou next week.
Welcome to the Profitable Painter Podcast.
The mission of this podcast issimple to help you navigate the
financial and tax aspects ofstarting, running and scaling a
professional painting businessFrom the brushes and ladders to
the spreadsheets and balancesheets.
We've got you covered.
But before we dive in, a quickword of caution.
While we strive to provideaccurate and up-to-date
financial and tax information,nothing you hear on this podcast
(00:22):
should be considered asfinancial advice specifically
for you or your business.
We're here to share generalknowledge and experiences, not
to replace the tailored adviceyou get from a professional
financial advisor or taxconsultant.
We strongly recommend youseeking individualized advice
before making any significantfinancial decision.
(00:43):
This is Daniel, the founder ofBookkeeping for Painters.
I'm a CPA that worksexclusively with painting
business owners, helping themknow their numbers on what they
mean and save big in tax.
And today I'm really excited.
I have Cody Hall here with usand we're going to talk about
hiring a back office admin.
So I'm super excited to jumpinto the conversation.
But before we do, I'm going togo ahead and read through Cody
(01:04):
Hall's biography.
So Cody Hall has a diversebackground in the military,
technology and business thatmakes him capable of leading the
organization effectively.
Cody led customer service andhuman resource teams from an
early stage startup to industryleading tech giants, creating
benchmark customer experiencesand employee journeys for teams
(01:28):
large and small.
After his time with largerorganizations, he began to
impact fast-growing companies,starting and assisting multiple
startups in developingworld-class teams, customer
experience and technologyworkflows.
Years later, cody started andled a multinational business
processing organization, a BPO,supporting companies from Los
(01:52):
Angeles to Tel Aviv with variousremote staffing and call center
needs.
Now Cody leads marketing atBookkeeping for Painters and he
seeks to provide expertise topainters that need to know their
numbers and saving in taxes.
Super excited to have you here,cody.
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Thank you for having me, daniel.
I hope to live up to that bioman.
I don't know who wrote thatthing, but that thing sounds
nice.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I know I'm just super excited to talk to whoever owns
this bio Me too, to talk towhoever owns this bio yeah, me
too, so yeah.
So today we're going to talkabout how to get someone on your
team to help you get to thenext level.
So a lot of painting businessesthat I work with they're between
(02:39):
like revenue of 350 to 1million and oftentimes there's a
bottleneck in their companywhere they're trying to wear all
the hats and they really needsomeone to just do some basic
things like answer the phone orsend off some invoices.
But they're doing everythingand they just need someone to
(03:01):
come in the organization helpthem out with those simple tasks
that can really help that painbusiness owner free up their
time so they can focus on thingsthat are more important, like
marketing and sales, to growtheir business to the next level
.
And you have some expertise inthis field of placing people in
organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
(03:23):
do this organizations.
So I'm really excited to getyour insight on how can someone
do this, how can they do thiseffectively but also in the most
inexpensive way possible.
What are the biggest adminbottlenecks that slow a painting
business down that you've?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And then how can hiring solve them?
Yeah, daniel, you said it wellAt those stages.
Those stages exist in manyindustries, that 350 to 1
million where they're trying togrow the very thing that
themselves.
They sprouted from a seed andthey found out.
Well, I've done everything upto this point and now they're
trying to do that while growing,while having a family and while
trying not to make mistakes.
And oftentimes we see it in thesmall things that don't
(04:10):
generate revenue.
They are the things thatoftentimes weigh people down.
This is something talking aboutthe accounting piece.
I myself speak to many of theoncoming clients for bookkeepers
or painters and they're tryingto grow their business right and
they're trying to get someonewho has an expertise on the
painting and the accounting side.
Well, it's just like that withthe virtual staffing piece.
(04:32):
You have phone calls coming in,you have things that need to be
filed, customers that need tobe followed up with invoices,
and a great example that youmentioned beforehand is many
people are spending a ton ofmoney on marketing right and
time.
They're posting shorts,recording podcasts, and when
those phone calls come in, theydon't have anybody to pick up
(04:52):
the phone and oftentimes, justlike you said and everyone here
listening, I'm sure know, if youdon't get that phone the first
time, they're going to the nextperson on Google and the next
person on Google.
So having someone that sits inthat intersection of non-revenue
producing tasks is whatoftentimes people use.
A virtual staff member forRobert Leonard.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, it's huge what you mentioned in terms of those
leads coming in.
If you're too busy to answerthe phone, that's just costing
you a huge amount of money.
If your phone is ringing andyou're missing it and it's from
leads, I mean, just count up howmany missed calls you're
getting and multiply that byyour close rate and that's
(05:37):
basically what your average jobsize is.
So let's say, over the courseof a month, if you're still
answering the phone, if you miss10 phone calls, which is it may
not sound like a lot to some,but let's say you missed 10
phone calls and if they were allleads that were coming in and
you have a 50% close rate,that's 5 jobs.
(05:58):
If you have an average job sizeof $5,000, let's say that's
$25,000.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And one thing, dan, I'd like to highlight is
oftentimes people hear that like, well, great, I'll get a phone
answering service.
I caution you there as well.
Having a phone answeringservice and a dedicated staff
member oftentimes cost about thesame.
The difference is having adedicated staff member.
You'll have someone who knowsyour business.
You'll be able to coach them onhow to communicate to your
(06:28):
clients the way you want yourclients to be communicated with,
where an answering service willjust answer the phone, put them
on a spreadsheet for you andsay, hey, call them back later.
You also have the side ofthings where you can get that
person additional tasks.
While they're waiting for thatphone to be ringing, they could
be doing whatever you want forthem updating your Facebook,
(06:48):
updating your LinkedIn, updatingyour website.
You can have that person bemultifaceted, which oftentimes,
in my experience with myprevious organization, was that,
regardless of the industry thatour folks would find themselves
in they often were a generalmarketer would be the best way
to describe it.
They did a little bit ofeverything and they did a little
bit of marketing.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it's huge.
And I think a lot of hesitationfor painting business owners
that I've spoke to is onethey're not sure where to go to
get this.
And then two, they're concernedabout the cost Bringing on
somebody to be full-time intheir business.
They might have hired paintersbefore and it of like a
(07:28):
straightforward okay, I haveprojects, I get crews, but
having a full-time person, ormaybe even just part-time, but
part-time to full-time person inthe business every day, that
might be, oh man, that seemslike it's going to be a lot of
money that's coming out of theirpocket.
So what would you say to folks?
(07:49):
Where can you find people tofill this role and what are you
looking at in terms of cost?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
No great question, and I'll talk about the cost
that you're going to be paying,not the opportunity cost you'll
have by missing phone calls andthings like that, because that's
out there as well.
You have two paths and thefirst one is one I don't
recommend because I've seen itgo arise so many times.
It's hiring a freelancer.
You can go to Fiverr or manyother freelancer-based pages and
(08:24):
hire someone for $500 a month.
They'll be out of South Africaor some Southeast Asian-based
country and you'll spend $500 amonth and you'll get somebody
who will work for you.
That's on the really low end.
However, oftentimes we foundourselves my previous
organization.
(08:44):
We were a value-basedorganization, not a cost
competitor, and so we were about$1,500 a month was our average
spend.
Actually, can you say it wasaverage.
That was our lowest entry pointwas about $1,500 per month, and
that was because we were hiringstraight out of Mexico.
(09:04):
English SC1 was requirementtested, written and verbal.
We also required educationverification, so everyone had a
degree.
So you can get a variety ofpeople, but I would caution
people to go straight to afreelancer because you have no
protection there.
You're going to entrust thisperson to answer your phone,
(09:24):
emails and maybe even makepayments for you and send
invoices.
You're going to want someonethere to guarantee your
protection and support, which iswhat a BPO is, a business
processing organization.
At Telehealth, my previousorganization, that company would
ensure that the people hadbackground checks, that if they
did something wrong, they wouldhave some sort of course, some
(09:48):
reaction would happen, whetherit's disciplinary, legal in any
way.
So it gave you a stronger senseof protection, versus just
hiring some random person out ofAfrica which a lot of people do
, venezuela as well and thenthey're just rolling the dice.
You don't know what you get,though you are getting it very
cheap.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, so it sounds like going to Upwork or Fiverr.
You can go direct to folksoutside of the country.
You're just taking on someadditional risk there.
It might be cheaper, but thecost is hidden and it's the risk
of them not following through,not doing your process doing
something with the sensitivedata that you have access to,
(10:28):
that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I've heard stories about virtual assistants that
were hired through Upwork, usingcredit cards, maxing them out
for their clients, stealingproprietary information and
starting their own company thatdid just the same thing as that
company did, and so I've heardall the horror stories.
I used to always say attelehelping we were back-to-back
(10:50):
lawsuit champions.
We never lost a fight, whetherit was prosecuting sorry, not
persecuting, sorry, prosecutingdifferent word prosecuting
someone who did something thatviolated their agreement, or
likewise.
There's also the ones whereclients take the people from you
, but we always our clients andand put a lot of money into
(11:13):
insuring they're alwaysprotected.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
you want those companies between you and that
international freelancer thatmakes sense and so, like you
said, a company like telehealthwill make sure that the folks
that they have as to plug intoyour business, they have a
certain level of English, thatthey speak a certain level of
(11:36):
education and training, sothey've been vetted at some
level before me as a paintingbusiness owner even gets to
interact with them.
Will they also help withplacing If I say, hey, I need
someone who can do somemarketing tasks, answer the
phone, maybe do some phone calls, outbound phone calls Do they
(11:59):
help place that if I give themthat information?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That's a great question and I can only speak to
what tele-helping did.
I know that industry practiceis to have a large group of
folks waiting and standing by tobe assigned to a person, so
it's more so having a solutionwaiting for a problem.
I think that's the mostmilitary way in the world to
look at things.
(12:22):
As two veterans, I like seeinga problem and drafting a
solution, and so a place liketele-helping we used a jobs to
be done approach to things andwe was like so a place like
telehelping, we used a jobs tobe done approach to things and
we was like, okay, what does theclient want to achieve?
And from that they woulddevelop a job description that
then would be applied through asearch and so it would be
exactly what the client'slooking to achieve.
(12:43):
That would result in the personthat they'll end up
interviewing One of the greatthings that we haven't.
We talk about just the hiringpiece, but people are people and
with people comes payroll,concerns about payroll, hr
concerns about performance,concerns about job security All
these things that go into theoverhead of a human being in a
(13:04):
position is taken care of by theBPO and they make sure that
really the virtual staff membersonly focus is whatever task you
have them doing, that's theirfocus.
If it's payroll, if it's youknow, sick time, all those
vacation things, all that'staken care of by the BPO so that
you can focus on making money.
(13:26):
So you're only responsible forthe monthly payment to the BPO,
starting somewhere between$1,500 and $2,000 per month
approximately, and then whatevertasks you're assigning your
virtual assistant, like makingsure they have some processes to
work with and standardoperating procedures- yeah, and
(13:48):
I like to go ahead and plugbookkeeping for painters here,
because we would and don't shootat me till helping, but we
would give clients accountantsfrom Mexico all the time that,
well, a full-time person, evenfrom Mexico, to do accounting
was far more than they would payfor bookkeeping, for painting
(14:12):
services, and becauseaccountants are very specialized
, and then they still wouldn'tbe able to file the taxes.
That's a really expensive nicheplacement for a virtual staff
member.
You see that, with the 2,500plus range for that.
And lawyers right, but mostpeople don't need those
particular placements.
That and lawyers right, butmost people don't need those
(14:34):
particular placements.
People hiring an accountant fromMexico is most likely an
accounting firm who providesbookkeeping and taxes as a
service, or a lawyer who wantstranslation documents and drafts
.
Those hire those really specialones.
Everyone else I'd say 70% offolks they're hiring someone to
do general staff and they'realso doing marketing associated
(14:55):
with it, because in 2025, if youown a business, you're an
influencer.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, social media is big Speed to lead.
Making sure your Facebook,because it seems like when
someone looks into your business, if they see your Google
results, they'll also just checkout your Facebook page to see
what's going on there.
And if it has a bunch of beforeand afters of how you've blew
your clients away with amazingresults, they'll probably pick
(15:25):
up the phone and give you a call.
So, yeah, those things arereally.
They can be very impactful foryour business, especially if you
keep on top of them, doing itconsistently.
And as a painting businessowner growing from $350, $500 to
a million or more, you won'thave time to do those daily
(15:45):
tasks and just getting that offyour plate will be a huge win
and you'll easily see the returnon investment.
Because, we mentioned earlier,if you're missing a few phone
calls a month, that's probablycost you thousands of dollars.
You're probably missing one ortwo or maybe three phone calls a
month.
If you had someone alwaysanswering it, that would easily
(16:06):
cover the cost of that virtualassistant Just being able to
answer the phone every singletime, as opposed to missing when
you're trying to answer it andyou're missing a few phone calls
a month.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Correct, yeah, and if you're on the job site and
you're out quoting people andyou're focused on driving the
business to its growth, it'shard to sit by and wait for that
phone You're going to beputting money.
Speed to Lead was a greatexample.
Many clients that I worked withhad the speed to lead problem,
because the truth of the matteris is most businesses aren't
(16:40):
incredibly unique, and if you'rein the painting business, you
probably live in a city wherethere's another painting
business and so you're competingfor that person's quote, and
oftentimes I quote my brotherhere the user, the first person
on the job, has the greatestchance of closing the deal, and
missing that phone call is halfthe battle.
(17:03):
Can't do it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
What would you say are some common mistakes that
business owners make when tryingto hire an admin?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
mistakes that business owners make when trying
to hire an admin.
Yeah, one is not knowing whatyou're trying to achieve.
Oftentimes we would have folkswho want to hire someone because
maybe they don't want to do atask, but they're like I'm going
to make them do this and like,great, what are we trying to
accomplish here?
Like I just don't want to do it.
And so we would dissect, kindof the intent of the client.
(17:34):
And oftentimes those who golooking for something they find
that what they're looking forisn't the original thought
process they set out on.
They'll say I just needsomething to do marketing.
Well, marketing is entirely morecomplex than just marketing.
Sure, manage the Facebook, butwhere's the content coming from?
Who's writing the content?
(17:54):
Who's targeting the audience?
And so oftentimes, when peopleare looking for it, they find
out that what they need isdifferent than what they wanted.
And so that's where a BPO comesinto play.
A good BPO, be very clear.
You go to most BPOs.
They will give you whatever youask for.
The BPOs who question you, pushback, dive a little deeper.
(18:18):
Those are the ones you want towork with, because they're
trying to get correct placementfirst, not the quickest
placement to get paid.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Hmm, that's a good point.
What would you say?
Because one of the objectionsI've heard before is like folks
have a hesitancy to hiresomebody abroad, like even if
it's just from Mexico, they feellike, oh, they're not gonna be
able to speak English wellenough to be understood, or
(18:50):
there might be just culturaldifferences.
But I guess what are somethings that you've learned?
Are there benefits to havingsomeone that's from a virtual
assistant coming from Mexico orsome similar country, as opposed
to trying to find a localperson to help you?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
No, that's a great question, and that's exactly why
I only hired and operated mycall centers and people out of
Mexico, because most I'd say athird of the company was native
English speaking.
They were born in the UnitedStates, went to college in the
United States, and so they had ahigh degree of understanding
and everyone else who spokeEnglish.
(19:32):
If you don't know this, mostaffluent paths in life in Mexico
start with a bilingual school,and so the folks we're hiring
that are coming out ofuniversity, that are coming out
of other jobs, they've beenspeaking English since they were
kids, and so that's the greatthing about we don't see Mexico.
We see it is a foreign country,but we have to understand that
(19:53):
our paths in terms of culture,relationships, business are so
intertwined that it makes Mexicothe perfect partner for seeking
to have someone who iscompetent, who is skilled, but
is less expensive than their UScounterpart.
Now, folks in Mexico can getpricey, but even the most pricey
person that you'll get out ofMexico is going to come with a
(20:15):
greater amount of experience,education and yes, the English
than, say, someone at a similarprice in the United States.
You just can't beat it.
I would even go on a limb to saynow, with current tariffs being
implemented, the power of thedollar, the weakening of the
peso right now more than ever,you're going to get Mexico at a
(20:36):
bargain, and people down therewant to work for strong American
companies where they know thatthey can wake up.
Every day, monday throughFriday, they can show up
somewhere, they're going to getpaid, and that's what I love
about Mexico-based culture andwork.
If they're really good at theirjob, they're focusing on
(20:57):
keeping this job and staying init forever.
They're not sitting there.
Oh, I'm good at my job.
I want a better job.
That doesn't exist in so muchof the culture of Mexico,
because they think more aboutstability and longevity than
they do about hierarchicalprocess and rising so if you, if
you go with someone from mexico, it sounds like you could you
(21:20):
probably have them for severalyears and they'll be.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
They'll be happy with that consistent work as long
you know doing the same thingevery day.
That that seems like fits inright in with their culture, not
expecting to like, oh, I wantto be ceo at some point, or
something like that yeah, I'dactually say that finding those
people was very difficult inmexico.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Um, uh, you know, from the side of things of
running the company, theheadquarters side, I wanted
business leaders like I wantindividual leaders working for
me directly, because I want topush down to the very lowest
level the authority to makechoices and then pick from them
with consequences.
Finding those people wasdifficult, finding the virtual
(22:03):
staff for the clients very easy,because they want someone who's
going to love their job andstick with it.
I'm looking for someone whoalways wants to push the
envelope, keep growing, makethings better, and when you're
trying to grow a rapid startupinto a multi-million dollar
giant, you need people who live,breathe and sleep the company,
(22:24):
versus someone who's like giveme a job, I'm going to work this
, I'm going to do great at itand I'm going to be happy where
I'm at.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Cool, awesome.
Well, what would you say to apainting business if they're
struggling with wearing all thehats and feel like they could
use a back office assistant,virtual assistant?
What do they need to do to takethe next steps?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
No, that's a great question.
And, first and foremost,realize that you aren't
experiencing something unique tojust you which helps you take
yourself out of your shoes.
There are a lot of paintingbusinesses, a lot of business in
general, that are going throughthe same thing.
You're hitting a bottleneckwith your task and in order to
continue the growth that you arethe health of yourself and
health of the business you needto put responsibilities outside
(23:10):
of your own self.
And I would say you know Ispoke to telehelping before this
and you know, if you want toreach out, one thing that I
implemented back in my day aspart of the plan was to not
charge people for looking forstaff, and so if you just want
to kick tires right, they have adepartment called placement
(23:30):
that their sole job is to makesure that they try to find
people to put in front of you tolet you fill it out, and so if
you reach out to telehelping,you can get info at
telehelpingcom and say Codyreferred you One.
They'll give you a discount Iasked them to do so but also
they'll guide you through theprocess, help you identify the
(23:52):
role and they'll let you know ifwhat you're trying to
accomplish is best coupled witha virtual assistant.
One of the founding principlesI put on the company was not to
do things that we're not good at, and so if they don't believe
that a virtual staff member isgoing to be the right solution
for you, they will advise you inthe best direction.
Maybe it is a call answeringservices, maybe it's a marketing
(24:13):
service, but if you're lookingfor someone to wear a lot of
hats that you're currentlywearing, I suggest you give away
the hat.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Excellent.
So that's info attelehelpingcom Correct.
All right, we'll include thatin the show notes as well.
And we've used telehelping andbookkeeping for painters to do
marketing and phone type tasksand they've always been great,
great placements.
So I definitely highlyrecommend if you're looking for
(24:44):
somebody to help get those admintasks off your plate, give
Telehelp a look and check out.
Give them an email, as Codysaid.
But I appreciate your timetoday, cody.
Are there any last thoughtsthat you'd like to give the
audience before we let you go,cody?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Nguyen.
Yeah, and I think this is veryimportant for those who are
considering bookkeeping forpainters and looking for
accounting services or lookingfor general admin services.
You're great at what you do,but you can't do everything as
best as someone who'sspecialized in it, whether it's
your accounting, yourbookkeeping, or if it's having
someone whose daily job is tosit there to make sure things
(25:23):
get posted online and phones getanswered.
Just remember you're the leaderof the business, you're not the
business.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
All right With that.
I love to hear your thoughts.
If you go to Facebook and typein Grow, your Painting Business,
send an invite to join thegroup, Post your questions or
any thoughts for future episodes.
Love to hear from you.
And with that, we will talk toyou next week.
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