February 14, 2025 • 35 mins
Unlock the secrets of turning potential leads into loyal customers as we sit down with Caleb Plitos, founder of Taurify, a marketing agency specializing in the painting industry. Caleb's journey from accounting to marketing is a testament to the power of following one's passion for content creation and storytelling. Discover how his pioneering work in the realm of lead generation, especially through platforms like YouTube and Facebook, has carved out a niche for Taurify, making it a powerhouse in marketing for painting businesses.
Our conversation delves into the intricacies of lead nurturing, especially when utilizing Facebook ads. Caleb draws parallels between lead nurturing and dating, emphasizing the importance of patience and personal interaction in turning leads into clients. He sheds light on common misconceptions about lead quality from social media, offering practical strategies such as demographic targeting and the use of appointment setters to enhance lead management and avoid missed opportunities.
Explore the art of building trust with your audience through authentic Facebook ads. Caleb shares his insights on crafting messages that resonate, using storytelling and testimonials to highlight quality and credibility over price. We discuss the importance of positioning business owners as local celebrities through personal videos and documenting the painting process for potential clients. Rounding out our discussion, we focus on key metrics for evaluating ad success, providing actionable insights to maximize your marketing efforts in the painting industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters, and today I'm herewith Caleb Plitos.
Caleb Plitos is the founder ofTarify.
Tarify is a marketing agencythat specializes in generating
leads and setting appointmentsfor painting businesses.
Caleb and his team servicepainting businesses across the
US, canada and even as far awayas Australia.
(00:21):
He also runs the Tarify YouTubechannel with over 100 videos
featuring industry guests, tipsand tricks and Facebook ad
secrets.
He also runs the Tarify showpodcast.
Welcome to the podcast, caleb.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you, daniel.
It's a pleasure man.
I appreciate you and everyonefor having me on here.
Guys, we prepared a goodeveryone for having me on here.
Guys, we prepared a good onefor you today.
I want to value bomb you withas much as possible here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I don't want anyone walking away thinking I didn't
get anything from that.
I'm excited, let's get into it.
So, first of all, how did youstart providing marketing to
painting businesses?
That's very niche.
How did you?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
get into this.
It's a funny story.
So I actually used to be inyour shoes.
I used to be an accountant.
I went to school for accounting.
I I always wanted to kind ofrun my own business.
I did kind of have theentrepreneurial bug and I
thought that accounting was oneof the smartest ways I could do
(01:27):
that, because I was like allright, listen, if I'm gonna
learn anything, I think theseare.
This is probably the mostvaluable business skill that I
can learn.
After that, I went to go workat a firm and God bless you guys
.
You guys are awesome but itjust wasn't for me.
I was not a good fit and I knewthat and my employer knew that
as well.
(01:48):
While you know, while I was kindof working at the firm first
six months or so, it just I hadthis YouTube channel where it
was my own YouTube channel.
I've been working on it for acouple of years and I would post
a lot of videos about you knowjust my life years and I would
post a lot of videos about youknow, just my life, like little
vlogs and things like that.
And I'm a big car guy.
I love cars.
(02:09):
I grew up in the Detroit area.
My dad worked for GeneralMotors.
Everybody I know works for likeFord or GM or whatever.
So I would go to like car showsand I would take pictures and
make videos of all thesedifferent cars and things like
that.
So I kind of learned from thathow to get comfortable on camera
.
I kind of learned, okay, likehow to talk about stuff, how to
edit, how to film and stuff likethat.
(02:31):
So I kind of was this likeautomotive content creator, okay
.
And then in you know, I waslike all right.
So I know I had these skills.
I know I have these, theseskills that I can kind of be an
accountant, but it just theaccountant world wasn't for me.
So, uh, at the beginning of of2022, uh, actually, this would
(02:53):
be more, actually more like theend of 2022.
I started my agency Now.
I didn't know exactly that itwas going to be painting
companies at first that I wouldservice, but I was like all
right, listen, I have all theseskills of like editing, filming
content, stuff like that.
Like these are valuable skills.
I'm just using them for myselfright now so I can kind of sell
these to businesses.
And I ended up using that, youknow, using those skills to
(03:18):
market for different types ofbusinesses.
They were like local businessesand things like that.
I was generating leads for themand I at first, when I started
the agency, it was a grind.
I had to reach out to like3,500 people just to get my very
first client.
So that was.
That was pretty, pretty tough.
But my second client ever was apainting company and we were
(03:43):
running Facebook ads for him andwe started doing pretty solid.
And then from that I was like,okay, you know, I want to start
making videos YouTube videosabout what we are doing.
So I kind of walked through.
I said, hey, this is the nameof the company was first choice,
painting and renovating.
And I was like, hey, this iswhat we're doing for this client
.
This is where we saw success,this is where we failed, this is
(04:06):
the problem that we had, thisis how we solved it.
And I just tried to be as openand honest as possible.
And I was like, hey, listen,this is everything we did.
If you want us to do this foryou too, here's a link below.
You can book a call and we cantalk about that.
That kind of started on YouTubea couple of years ago, um, and
(04:27):
then, from that, other paintersstarted reaching out and then I
was like, okay, like there'sobviously a need here, um, and
if you look up, like how to runFacebook ads for a painting
company, like we're in like someof the top videos, um, so I
started noticing that that wasvery valuable.
And then at the time we werestill working with, we were
working with about 50% paintersand then the other 50% was like
(04:50):
other companies maybe likeautomotive detailers or other
sort of local businesses,freaking good.
So we got to focus on one thing, and I'm like I'm sure you know
as well like, if you want to bethe best, you got to focus at a
certain thing.
And that's where we said, okay,you know, it's, it's best if we
(05:14):
focus on working with paintingcompanies and that's what we're
good at, that's what wespecialize in, and that's kind
of how we ended up here.
So that is the that's the longstory short, about what happened
.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That's really cool.
I love how you shared thejourney and we're completely
transparent.
You know, working with thatinitial painting business that
you worked with and like andbasically gave upfront value on
here's what we've tried, here'swhat works, here's what doesn't
work.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's really cool yeah, I, I think so there was
okay.
So one of the best marketersout there, gary Vaynerchuk, he
has this kind of saying thatdocument don't create, and
that's kind of what I just triedto do and I feel that it came
off very transparent, veryhonest and I just said, hey,
listen, this is what we did,this is this is.
(05:59):
This is if it worked, this isif it didn't work, this is if it
worked, this is if it didn'twork.
And, honestly, like as assomebody in my shoes, as a
marketer, like this stuffchanges all the time.
Man platforms come out with newrules, new things come out.
So, like you really have toalways be testing new things.
(06:20):
Like this morning I had like atwo hour meeting with one of our
media buyers and we were justlike testing new things for a
certain client to try to getthem better results.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You always got to be kind of on the cutting edge of
what's happening or else it'svery easy to fall behind.
Yeah, it's crazy how oftenthese like meta Facebook,
instagram, google, how oftenthey're changing the rules and
what makes sense and whatdoesn't, what works, what
doesn't work?
It's I mean, it's ridiculous,like you almost need, you need
an expert to really guide youthrough what works and what
(06:55):
doesn't work.
Speaking of, you know, facebookand Instagram, if someone's
never run Facebook and Instagramads, what should they kind of
expect?
Like what sort of mindsetshould they have going into
trying this out?
Because I know a lot of paintersthat I've worked with you know
(07:16):
a lot of times they havereferrals.
They get, you know, word ofmouth going, which is great.
That's the best type ofmarketing.
Word of mouth going, which isgreat.
That's the best type ofmarketing word of mouth.
But to really grow, a lot oftimes it takes some outbound
type of marketing strategy andFacebook and Instagram are great
vehicles, but if you don't havethe right mindset, I think it
(07:37):
can be a challenge to transitionfrom word of mouth to referral.
So do you have any thoughts onpreparing to make that jump?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, so that is a phenomenal.
Have any thoughts on preparingto make that jump?
Yeah, so that is a phenomenalquestion and I think it's
something that everybody shouldreally kind of think about when
they're making this job.
So let's say that, likesomebody that's in kind of a
good spot for this would be,you're making around, you know,
200 to $300,000 a year in yourpainting business.
You've got a good, a goodamount of referrals and yes,
like you said, like referralsare that's the cream of the crop
(08:07):
, those are the best.
There's probably not going tobe a better lead source than
like somebody else holding theirhand saying, hey, this is my
guy, this is exactly what youwant.
That is phenomenal and that'sgoing to help you grow your
business.
However, unfortunately, likeyou kind of are just waiting for
that to happen.
Um, unfortunately, like youkind of are just waiting for
(08:27):
that to happen, uh, it's not.
Like you're actively searchingout people or actively, you know
, running ads or other thingslike that, so you can only grow
as fast as the referrals come in.
And also, if you run outboundchannels, like you know,
facebook, instagram, googlestuff, like that you are, you're
getting in front of thesepeople that you wouldn't
normally get in front of, andthose can then turn into more
(08:49):
referrals, so it kind of feedsthe system In terms of mindset.
Let me say it like this okay,the leads that you're going to
get from social media are notgoing to be as good as referrals
.
I'm just going to say that it'sthe honest truth.
They're not going to be as goodas referrals.
You have to think of this likedating.
(09:10):
Okay, like you're dating, youknow, let's say you, you know,
you see this cute girl.
Maybe you're going to the gymand she works at the counter at
the gym.
Think of that girl as a lead.
Okay, you're not going to walkup to that girl and ask her to
marry you right away, becauseshe'd be freaked out and she'd
be like who the heck are you?
You're scaring me, and thenshe's going to run away
(09:31):
screaming.
Okay, however, you know, whatyou might do is you might, you
know, smile at her one day, nextday you might wave, maybe
you'll ask for her name the nextday following that, and then
eventually you'll ask for herphone number, take her out on a
date, so on, so on, and thenmaybe, down the line, you'll get
(09:51):
married.
But you can't just walk up tosomebody and ask them to marry
you.
That's weird and you're goingto get outcast for that.
That's the same thing asmarketing.
Okay, I think a lot of peoplekind of expect to get a lead and
then immediately close thatlead on the spot, like over text
, because they came in fromFacebook or Google.
Like there needs to be a goodlead nurture process in order to
(10:15):
actually turn those leads into,you know, sales.
So I know that's kind of afunny example, but like the like
, the parallels are really thereand I think it really kind of
kind of drives it at home.
Like when you think about itlike that, you're like, oh yeah,
like that'd be really weird,right?
Um, but some people that comeinto marketing and they expect
uh you know somebody who sentthem a message on Facebook to
(10:37):
like, agree to a 5,000, $10,000job.
Over three text messages, likeyou got to go to their place,
you got to shake their hand, youmay have to send them emails,
they may have to see you knowthe social proof about your
company and they may have to befollowed up on and then that
person will close.
It's not just like an automaticthing, uh, without a good, a
(10:58):
good nurture process in placeand without a good sales process
in place?
Um, that's why, like, our veryfirst step for all the clients
that we bring on is we got toget organized and there's gotta
be a good way to manage theseleads, cause if there's not,
you're kind of just wasting yourmoney.
Uh, that's why we uh hook allof our clients up with drip jobs
(11:19):
, one of our partners.
Uh, a phenomenal system tomanage those leads, help follow
up with those leads and trackwhat's going on.
Um, I mean, obviously you are aprime example of this.
Like you got to track what'sgoing on, or else you have no
idea, like what's happening.
That's where the good CRM comesin place and that system comes
in place, using those tools toactually track those leads and
(11:42):
nurture them along the line.
So think about this like dating, you know, don't just walk up
to a prospect and ask them tomarry you.
That you know.
Nurture them.
That's.
That's, that's my pitch.
Does that kind of make sense?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, I love the analogy.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.
But it's like when you thinkabout it you're like, oh yeah,
like that would be super weird,but honestly, like that's, I
think that's what a lot ofpeople sort of expect, which is,
like, you know, because they'vejust been working off of
referrals, which is phenomenal,like referrals are great, but,
uh, you know, it's just theleads sort of have to be handled
(12:19):
a little bit differently.
So just expect that when you'recoming into it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, one of the big complaints that I see.
Sometimes I'll get it to one ofthe clients that I work with or
I'll see it on social mediacomplaining about Facebook ads
being like, oh, I'm getting abunch of bad leads on Facebook
and you kind of touched on thison the leads that you're getting
(12:43):
from Facebook aren't going tobe like referrals.
But could you, could you diveinto that like a little bit more
on expectations of of what sortof leads are you actually
getting on Facebook and whatreally what should you be
expecting when you're gettingFacebook ad leads?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, of course.
So the the cons of Facebook adsand I'll be like totally
transparent about this the conscompared to like Google or
something else is that the leadsaren't as high of intent.
But the big pro to that is thatyou're getting a lot of people
that you wouldn't normally get.
You're not just throwing yourhands up and waiting for them to
reach out, like you are onGoogle or on your website or
(13:25):
something like that.
You're not just waiting forreferrals to roll in.
You're getting leads everysingle day in the door.
So it's very easy that Facebookleads can become your top lead
producer for the people that arecoming in.
Now that's where we see a lotof misunderstanding, is where
(13:47):
people kind of expect them to bethe same as referrals and
things like that.
And don't get me wrong, there'sa lot of things that we can do
to help improve the quality ofleads.
Making sure that you're showingin the right neighborhoods,
like we don't want to be showingads to people who, just
straight up, can't afford yourservices.
We want them to have the moneyfor a $5,000, $10,000 cabinet
job.
That's number one.
Have the money for a $5,000 or$10,000 cabinet job.
(14:11):
That's that's number one.
Number two is we can kind ofdisqualify people on the way, so
like, uh, let's say, forexample, we put like a question
in one of the forms that says,hey, you know what's your
project timeline.
If they say I'm looking to getsomething done in two years, we
may say, hey, probably not thebest fit to work together right
now, or the we'll get into thisa little later.
But, like our appointmentsetters, once those leads come
(14:32):
in, we call those leads and wequalify them over the phone.
So like this is something thatwe work out with each business
owner, maybe the radius thatthey operate in, or, if they
have maybe like a job minimum,we may say to the prospect hey,
it looks, you know, it lookslike you're, you're, you're
getting this done, so on and soforth.
We'll have a little bit of aconversation and then you know,
(14:53):
hey, just to let you know, ourjob minimum is 750 bucks or a
thousand dollars or whateverLike is that okay?
And then that that's a nice ofdifferent reasons that that
could come about.
(15:19):
One of them is because of leadmanagement.
That's the exact reason why westarted calling the leads for
our clients and we startedoffering appointment setting,
because we noticed that a lot ofour clients were.
They were getting leads onFacebook.
They were calling them like twoor three days later and then
they would come back to us andsay, hey, these leads suck.
I talked to them and they saidthey don't remember me and I was
(15:41):
like, oh, like that's terriblewhat happened.
And then, you know, I come tofind out they call them like
three days later and I'm likedude, of course they don't
remember you.
Like like speed, the lead isincredibly important.
Like you got to call thesepeople within five minutes.
And if you're the businessowner and you're hopping around
from job to job, you're doingthis and that, like it's
probably unrealistic to thinkthat you can just drop
(16:02):
everything and call the leadright then and there.
What if you're in an estimateor what if you're doing
something?
Like you know they just didn'thave the time, so that's why we
started offering it for them.
It's kind of a nice middleground to like if you don't have
a full-time in-office admin.
You know our appointmentcenters are working 14 hours a
day, seven days a week, so likewe're there when a lead comes in
(16:23):
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, that's, that's key.
I just last week I had aconsult for a newer client.
We're doing some budgeting for2025 and he was he hadn't done
Facebook ads before but hewanted to add that because he
wanted to grow to 500,000.
And so he was like I'm going tobudget $50,000 for Facebook
(16:47):
leads, facebook ads, to getleads from there.
I was like, okay, great.
And he had a marketing firmthat he had just signed up with
and I was like, okay, so how areyou going to deal with the
leads when they come in?
How are those being set?
How are those getting scheduledon your estimate calendar?
(17:08):
And he wasn't sure.
He didn't have a plan.
And I was like is the marketingcompany doing that for you?
Because it's not always a giventhat a marketing company is
going to set appointments foryou.
So that was some homework hehad.
So I think this is like a superkey thing to know about
Facebook is those, like you said, when those leads come in from
(17:30):
Facebook, it's speed to lead.
You have to have a really goodprocess If you're going to do it
in your business really goodprocess to handle those leads or
work with someone like you thatjust handles that for you and
sets the appointments for you.
So I think that's like reallykey and I love that you are
handling that for the folks thatyou work with.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it also kind of helps us to do a better job for
them as well, because the I'lltell you, like you know I know
you didn't ask for a marketingagency therapy session here, but
I'm going to give you one todayUh that one of the most
challenging parts about being inlike our shoes is that we don't
always know what's going on onthe other end.
(18:12):
If a client isn't trackingtheir CRM and they're not
telling us what's going on, uh,we have no idea if those leads
are turning into appointments,if they're making money, how
much money they're making.
So because we have more controlover that, I can listen to
every single phone call andgauge how interested the
(18:32):
prospect is, if this is a goodfit, you know, so on and so
forth, and that allows us to dobetter advertising, because we
can.
We're also making those phonecalls so that we can kind of
understand more about what'sgoing on so that we can kind of
understand more about what'sgoing on.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
What are some?
Can you talk to me a little bitabout ads, facebook ads
themselves, like what makes agood ad, what makes a bad ad,
like what what?
I've heard different strategiesout there.
What have you seen that'sworked?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
yeah, of course.
So let me tell you this Like,if you are running Facebook ads,
if you're doing this foryourself, you probably got to
test some different ads.
You know it's probably not whatyou want to hear, but you can't
just set in for you Get it.
Your ads eventually, as peoplesee them, a lot will tend to die
out.
With that being said, the bestads that we normally see are
(19:29):
with the business owner in thead and some sort of video, so a
video of the business ownertalking about what they do,
maybe walking around a job thatthey completed or talking about
their services.
I want you to, when you'rethinking about the ads that you
are putting out on Facebook, Iwant you to think of it in the
(19:49):
shoes of your prospect.
Okay, talk about the type ofthings that your ideal prospect
wants to hear.
Your ideal prospect probablydoesn't want the cheapest guy
out there.
They probably want somebody whodoes great quality work, who
they can trust, who's honest,who has a great crew that they
(20:11):
know is going to take care ofthem.
They want a good, easyexperience, and so on, so on.
In your ads, you should betalking about the things that
appeal to your ideal prospect.
If you say you know, hey, thisis Joe's painting, we are the
cheapest people in town.
Uh, you know, we smokecigarettes inside your house and
blah, blah, blah, like you'reprobably going to get poor
(20:32):
quality leads.
If that's what you're puttingout there, you're going to get
the people who don't care aboutthat.
They just want, like, thecheapest thing possible and
those are probably not going tobe your ideal clients.
Um so, with that being said,you get out what you put into it
.
If you get out what you putinto it.
If you put out great qualityads, uh, you're going to attract
better quality people.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That makes sense and it seems like, um, I guess could
you talk to me about this, this, this phrase?
Uh, local painting celebrity.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So in addition.
So one of the great thingsabout Facebook ads is that you
can.
You can really kind of tellyour story and you can relate to
people.
What we try to do for all ofour clients is get them on
camera as much as possible.
Now now, like, what we do is weget like the actual video of
them talking.
We do all the editing, we cutit up, we make it look nice, all
(21:26):
the captions, but like, if weget like that, just that video
from him, that works wonders.
So the reason why is because ifyou, you know, let's say, you
run Daniel's painting, okay, andyou are all over your local
area, hey, this is Daniel, thisis what we do.
I'm your neighbor, I'm a familyman, you know, I, x, y and Z
(21:48):
people get to know you and thenthey start to like you.
So when you show up to theirhouse and shake your hand or
shake their hand, you're notjust some random guy from the
painting company, you're Daniel,the guy from the ad that
they've seen plenty of times,that they know and that helps
them trust you a little bit more.
So it kind of builds up yourauthority before you even step
into their door.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Mm-hmm.
And do you recommend because wehad talked about what Gary
Vaynerchuk recommends is todocument do you kind of have the
same recommendation forpainting businesses that they
need to make a habit of kind ofdocumenting their process of
painting houses and using thatto kind of help out their
marketing strategy?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, so there's kind of three main videos that we
start all of our clients offwith.
Uh, the first one is going tobe a little bit more general.
Hi, I'm Caleb, uh, we operate,or I operate Caleb's painting.
We do work in Macomb County,michigan, and we do interior,
exterior, cabinetry, um, andthen just, we prioritize high
quality work.
(22:50):
We're licensed, insured.
Just kind of a more of a littlebit more of a general ad.
That's, that's number one.
Number two would be some sortof like project walkthrough,
ideally showing like a beforeand after.
So, um, and if you can evenlike, tell a little bit of a
story, a story with it, likejust a quick little story.
It doesn't need to be anythingcrazy, but like like, for
example, you know, hey, uh,we're here at Susan's house.
(23:13):
She has this really bad problemwith her exterior.
Some of her wood is starting tocrack and get moldy and the
exterior paint is chipping.
This is what it looks like.
And then you know, fast forwardto the after.
Hey, you know, this is, we'reback at Susan's house here.
Look at how beautiful her houselooks.
We cleaned all of this up.
She's very happy, she's goingto have people over for the
holidays and she's very excitedto show off her new home.
(23:35):
It doesn't need to be this likelong story, but like painting
is obviously very visual.
Showing the before and after islike that's another good one
too.
Um, number three is going to belike our.
Our third kind ofrecommendation is some sort of
like testimonial heavy ad.
So if you can get like one ofyour prospects to say like hey,
(23:57):
I worked with Caleb and his team.
They did a phenomenal job on myhome.
They, you know, my exterior wasreally old and outdated.
Now it looks great.
I like my house so much morenow, or whatever, whatever
somebody else says about you islike 10 times more valuable what
you say like obviously you'regoing to say great things about
your, your business, because youown it, but if somebody else
(24:19):
says it like just like in aGoogle review or something like
that, it just holds a lot moreweight.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Makes sense.
So this next part.
The next question is is itgoing to be my favorite part of
the podcast?
Not that this has been bad sofar, it's been great, yeah but
I'd love to talk about themetrics.
What metrics do you like totrack for Facebook or meta ads
generally, and what should wefocus on, because there's so
(24:47):
much data that you can look at?
What do we really need to focuson?
And if you could give somebenchmarks, that would be
awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So I tried to keep this as simple as possible.
When we're looking at metrics,the number one, most important
thing is how much money you'reactually bringing in from the
ads.
The click through rate, costper lead, all that stuff none of
it matters unless you'reactually bringing money in from
the ads.
So that's number one.
That's at the top of thepyramid.
With that being said, at first,if you are starting off brand
(25:22):
new with advertising, you'reprobably not going to be at like
a 10% or 5% cost of marketing.
You're probably going to bemore like 15, maybe even 20.
But over time, your advertisingcost should be between 5% and
10% of your business.
So, for example, if you make$100,000 a month, you should be
spending $5,000 to $10,000 amonth on some sort of marketing.
(25:42):
That's kind of like the firstbig one.
Next up is going to be kind oflike the appointments and then
cost per lead stuff like that,appointments on Facebook and
Instagram of like theappointments and then cost per
lead stuff.
Like that Appointments onFacebook and Instagram.
Every about one out of everythree leads should become an
estimate.
(26:03):
So if a hundred leads come in,some people might not be a good
fit.
Some people might, you know beout of your service area.
But out of a hundred leads youshould go to about 30 estimates
from that.
So that's a 30% set rate.
On Google it'll be a littlehigher, about 70 or 80.
In terms of cost per lead, I'dsay 50 bucks on average is a
(26:24):
good thing to shoot for.
It's going to depend on yourmarket, who your competitors are
, but anywhere between like 40and 60, you're kind of in the
right spot here.
With that being said, there'sone more that I think is
important.
It is the.
If you look on Facebook, in theFacebook ads manager, there's
this metric called linkclick-through rate.
(26:46):
That means that people areclicking on your ads and they're
going to where you want them togo.
So that means your creatives,your copy, they like it enough
to kind of get to that next step.
Maybe that next step is fillingout a form, send a new message,
go into your landing page.
Whatever that next step is,that link click through rate
(27:07):
should be above 1%.
That means that if you show theads to 100 people, one or more
people make it to that next step.
That's kind of like the firstkind of top of funnel metric.
I don't want to get into likeanything else, because that'll
just kind of muddy the waters.
But those are the simple onesto kind of look at.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Okay so to recap, revenue from ads.
So just what you're gettingfrom from those Facebook ads,
what jobs are you closing, what?
What is the dollar amount ofrevenue you're getting from
those Facebook ad efforts?
And you said so that's numberone.
Then it trying to get um, ifyou're just starting out, a 15%,
(27:51):
15 to 20 to 20% marketing costsas a percentage of revenue from
Facebook, but trying to getthat down to 5% or 10% ideally.
And then appointments that arecoming in or, I'm sorry, leads
that are coming in, you'resetting at least one out of
three, so around a 33% set rate,like actually taking the lead
(28:16):
and putting it on your calendar.
If you're getting one out ofthree leads on the calendar, you
are good.
And then the click-through ratefor basically showing you the
ads looking at the click-throughrate of your ad, making sure
that it's above 1% to ensurethat the ad is effective.
There was one other thing I'mmissing.
(28:37):
What was the other?
Um?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
was it metric cost per lead.
Yeah, cost per lead.
I'd say about 40 to 40 to $60cost per lead.
Okay, that's, that's average.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So if you're listening to this, like on the
road or something, um, you know,I know this is kind of a lot of
numbers here.
But just to just kind ofsummarize, like at first, if you
are spending, you're spendingtwo dollars on ads and you're
getting back ten dollars in jobs, then that's good.
But you want to get to a pointwhere you're spending one dollar
on ads and getting back tendollars, but it's gonna, it's
(29:13):
not gonna be like off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, and I guess if you let's say you're spending $3
and you're getting only $10,and what is what are the first
things that you would look at tokind of troubleshoot what's
going wrong?
Should I immediately fire mymarketing company?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So I think so, so, so .
So here's what I'll say uh, Ithink you need to have a good,
open, honest conversation withyour marketing company so that
they can help you, like they arehere to help you and work you
through these problems and,realistically, it is a
partnership.
You can be the you can be thebest salesperson in the world,
but if they're not getting youleads, then you're not making
(29:53):
any money.
Or vice versa, if they'regetting you the best leads in
the world, but you can't closeanything, then you're not going
to be making money or happyeither.
So, uh, I think you should havea.
If you're in that situationwhere you're not making money,
it's important to have a good,open, honest conversation with
your agency to figure out whatthe heck is going on.
Um, conversation with youragency to figure out what the
(30:16):
heck is going on.
Um, the three main things that,at least if we ever have that
conversation, three main thingsthat we look at are are the
leads coming in?
Are they like, actually goodleads coming in?
Are those leads turning intoappointments?
And then, are those gettingclosed?
If, if a bunch of leads arecoming in, a bunch of
appointments are getting set,but they're just not getting
closed, then okay, let's learnabout that.
(30:38):
Does the sales team need alittle bit more training?
What's going on there?
Is this a sales issue or viceversa?
Maybe we're getting leads in,but on the phone we're only
booking 5% of those leads.
Okay, what's going on here?
Like, do the setters need to betrained?
Do we need to loosen up ourrestrictions a little bit?
(30:58):
You know, we look at eachnumber in the funnel and to kind
of pinpoint where the issue maybe.
That's basically like, ifyou're not, if you are not
hitting the numbers that youwant and you are not hitting
good numbers, the best thing Ican tell you is to look at your
CRM, look at your metrics.
Okay, where do the problems lie?
(31:19):
Am I not getting enoughestimates?
Am I not closing enoughestimates?
Am I not getting enough leads?
Where is the actual issue?
And then from there you canfurther.
Usually it's one of threethings it's either leads, set or
sales.
Usually there's not many otherthings.
It could be where the problemis.
So once you see where thatproblem actually is, then you
can kind of dive deeper intosolving it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
That makes sense, yeah.
So basically look at am Igetting leads?
Are those leads turning intoestimates and then are those
estimates turning into book jobs, and if there's a one of those
things isn't working too well.
If you can fix that thing, thenit might solve your issue.
Sounds like.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah.
So like, for example, if youare getting, if you're getting a
good amount of leads and you'regetting, you know you're
closing a good amount of them,but you're just not setting
enough appointments.
If you can just fix that number, like if you can set 5% more
(32:21):
appointments by maybe hiring asetter or training you know your
admin a little bit better thanjust having better speed to lead
like that helps all of yourother numbers like tremendously.
Like just fixing one of thosevariables like really cranks up
the volume on everything else,on everything else.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Nice, Cool.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Do you have any other tactics, tips, strategies for
Facebook for painting businessowners that we haven't talked
about so far.
For the most part, I thinkwe've kind of gone over a lot of
the Facebook, instagram tacticsand things like that.
I guess the last kind of thingthat I will say is paid
(32:56):
advertising.
You know, facebook, instagram,google, all this stuff it only
works as good as you work it, soyou got to give it a good,
solid try.
You know it's, if you'restarting this brand new, it's
going to take a little while tolearn how to do it and all that
type of stuff, if you're nothiring somebody else to do it.
Um, just, a lot of people havethis shiny object syndrome and
(33:17):
oh, I need to hop to Angie's orI need to hop to Google, or I
need to hop to this or that.
Like, everything works.
You just got to put in the timeto make it work.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, yeah, great advice.
I think, definitely I'm, uh,guilty of that myself.
You know, I'll try this for awhile.
Hop over, let's try this othermarketing channel.
How's that, how's that work?
But you're not just getting,you're not getting any traction
in the meantime and like wastingyour time.
So, yeah, that's, that's greatadvice.
So where can folks learn moreabout what you do over there at
(33:50):
Tarify?
What, what, what do folks needto do?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah.
So the first thing I'drecommend is go check out the
YouTube channel.
We have a ton of free content,free value, where we walk you
through exactly what we do, howwe do it, our successes, our
failures.
I even posted a video, probablyabout two, three weeks ago now,
about all the things that we'vechanged based on the feedback
(34:16):
that we got from our clients.
So like, if you just want tolearn a little bit more about
what we do, that's a great spot.
And if you want to kind oflearn a little bit more about
working with us, specificallywhere we can run all your ads
for you, set those appointmentsso that you and your sales team
can, you know, have more peopleto visit so that you guys can
close more deals, then I wouldcheck out our website just
wwwtorifycom and all of ourstuff's there.
(34:39):
You can book a call.
I will personally meet with youand kind of discuss where your
needs might be so we can kind oftake it to the next level and
help scale.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, caleb.
This was amazing.
I think you definitelydelivered on your promise of
delivering some amazing value,so I really appreciate your time
and with that, we will see younext week.
Thank you.
This is Daniel, the founder of Bookkeeping for
Painters, and today I'm herewith Caleb Plitos.
Caleb Plitos is the founder ofTarify.
Tarify is a marketing agencythat specializes in generating
leads and setting appointmentsfor painting businesses.
Caleb and his team servicepainting businesses across the
US, canada and even as far awayas Australia.
(00:21):
He also runs the Tarify YouTubechannel with over 100 videos
featuring industry guests, tipsand tricks and Facebook ad
secrets.
He also runs the Tarify showpodcast.
Welcome to the podcast, caleb.
How's it going?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you, daniel.
It's a pleasure man.
I appreciate you and everyonefor having me on here.
Guys, we prepared a goodeveryone for having me on here.
Guys, we prepared a good onefor you today.
I want to value bomb you withas much as possible here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I don't want anyone walking away thinking I didn't
get anything from that.
I'm excited, let's get into it.
So, first of all, how did youstart providing marketing to
painting businesses?
That's very niche.
How did you?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
get into this.
It's a funny story.
So I actually used to be inyour shoes.
I used to be an accountant.
I went to school for accounting.
I I always wanted to kind ofrun my own business.
I did kind of have theentrepreneurial bug and I
thought that accounting was oneof the smartest ways I could do
(01:27):
that, because I was like allright, listen, if I'm gonna
learn anything, I think theseare.
This is probably the mostvaluable business skill that I
can learn.
After that, I went to go workat a firm and God bless you guys
.
You guys are awesome but itjust wasn't for me.
I was not a good fit and I knewthat and my employer knew that
as well.
(01:48):
While you know, while I was kindof working at the firm first
six months or so, it just I hadthis YouTube channel where it
was my own YouTube channel.
I've been working on it for acouple of years and I would post
a lot of videos about you knowjust my life years and I would
post a lot of videos about youknow, just my life, like little
vlogs and things like that.
And I'm a big car guy.
I love cars.
(02:09):
I grew up in the Detroit area.
My dad worked for GeneralMotors.
Everybody I know works for likeFord or GM or whatever.
So I would go to like car showsand I would take pictures and
make videos of all thesedifferent cars and things like
that.
So I kind of learned from thathow to get comfortable on camera
.
I kind of learned, okay, likehow to talk about stuff, how to
edit, how to film and stuff likethat.
(02:31):
So I kind of was this likeautomotive content creator, okay
.
And then in you know, I waslike all right.
So I know I had these skills.
I know I have these, theseskills that I can kind of be an
accountant, but it just theaccountant world wasn't for me.
So, uh, at the beginning of of2022, uh, actually, this would
(02:53):
be more, actually more like theend of 2022.
I started my agency Now.
I didn't know exactly that itwas going to be painting
companies at first that I wouldservice, but I was like all
right, listen, I have all theseskills of like editing, filming
content, stuff like that.
Like these are valuable skills.
I'm just using them for myselfright now so I can kind of sell
these to businesses.
And I ended up using that, youknow, using those skills to
(03:18):
market for different types ofbusinesses.
They were like local businessesand things like that.
I was generating leads for themand I at first, when I started
the agency, it was a grind.
I had to reach out to like3,500 people just to get my very
first client.
So that was.
That was pretty, pretty tough.
But my second client ever was apainting company and we were
(03:43):
running Facebook ads for him andwe started doing pretty solid.
And then from that I was like,okay, you know, I want to start
making videos YouTube videosabout what we are doing.
So I kind of walked through.
I said, hey, this is the nameof the company was first choice,
painting and renovating.
And I was like, hey, this iswhat we're doing for this client
.
This is where we saw success,this is where we failed, this is
(04:06):
the problem that we had, thisis how we solved it.
And I just tried to be as openand honest as possible.
And I was like, hey, listen,this is everything we did.
If you want us to do this foryou too, here's a link below.
You can book a call and we cantalk about that.
That kind of started on YouTubea couple of years ago, um, and
(04:27):
then, from that, other paintersstarted reaching out and then I
was like, okay, like there'sobviously a need here, um, and
if you look up, like how to runFacebook ads for a painting
company, like we're in like someof the top videos, um, so I
started noticing that that wasvery valuable.
And then at the time we werestill working with, we were
working with about 50% paintersand then the other 50% was like
(04:50):
other companies maybe likeautomotive detailers or other
sort of local businesses,freaking good.
So we got to focus on one thing, and I'm like I'm sure you know
as well like, if you want to bethe best, you got to focus at a
certain thing.
And that's where we said, okay,you know, it's, it's best if we
(05:14):
focus on working with paintingcompanies and that's what we're
good at, that's what wespecialize in, and that's kind
of how we ended up here.
So that is the that's the longstory short, about what happened
.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That's really cool.
I love how you shared thejourney and we're completely
transparent.
You know, working with thatinitial painting business that
you worked with and like andbasically gave upfront value on
here's what we've tried, here'swhat works, here's what doesn't
work.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's really cool yeah, I, I think so there was
okay.
So one of the best marketersout there, gary Vaynerchuk, he
has this kind of saying thatdocument don't create, and
that's kind of what I just triedto do and I feel that it came
off very transparent, veryhonest and I just said, hey,
listen, this is what we did,this is this is.
(05:59):
This is if it worked, this isif it didn't work, this is if it
worked, this is if it didn'twork.
And, honestly, like as assomebody in my shoes, as a
marketer, like this stuffchanges all the time.
Man platforms come out with newrules, new things come out.
So, like you really have toalways be testing new things.
(06:20):
Like this morning I had like atwo hour meeting with one of our
media buyers and we were justlike testing new things for a
certain client to try to getthem better results.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
You always got to be kind of on the cutting edge of
what's happening or else it'svery easy to fall behind.
Yeah, it's crazy how oftenthese like meta Facebook,
instagram, google, how oftenthey're changing the rules and
what makes sense and whatdoesn't, what works, what
doesn't work?
It's I mean, it's ridiculous,like you almost need, you need
an expert to really guide youthrough what works and what
(06:55):
doesn't work.
Speaking of, you know, facebookand Instagram, if someone's
never run Facebook and Instagramads, what should they kind of
expect?
Like what sort of mindsetshould they have going into
trying this out?
Because I know a lot of paintersthat I've worked with you know
(07:16):
a lot of times they havereferrals.
They get, you know, word ofmouth going, which is great.
That's the best type ofmarketing.
Word of mouth going, which isgreat.
That's the best type ofmarketing word of mouth.
But to really grow, a lot oftimes it takes some outbound
type of marketing strategy andFacebook and Instagram are great
vehicles, but if you don't havethe right mindset, I think it
(07:37):
can be a challenge to transitionfrom word of mouth to referral.
So do you have any thoughts onpreparing to make that jump?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, so that is a phenomenal.
Have any thoughts on preparingto make that jump?
Yeah, so that is a phenomenalquestion and I think it's
something that everybody shouldreally kind of think about when
they're making this job.
So let's say that, likesomebody that's in kind of a
good spot for this would be,you're making around, you know,
200 to $300,000 a year in yourpainting business.
You've got a good, a goodamount of referrals and yes,
like you said, like referralsare that's the cream of the crop
(08:07):
, those are the best.
There's probably not going tobe a better lead source than
like somebody else holding theirhand saying, hey, this is my
guy, this is exactly what youwant.
That is phenomenal and that'sgoing to help you grow your
business.
However, unfortunately, likeyou kind of are just waiting for
that to happen.
Um, unfortunately, like youkind of are just waiting for
(08:27):
that to happen, uh, it's not.
Like you're actively searchingout people or actively, you know
, running ads or other thingslike that, so you can only grow
as fast as the referrals come in.
And also, if you run outboundchannels, like you know,
facebook, instagram, googlestuff, like that you are, you're
getting in front of thesepeople that you wouldn't
normally get in front of, andthose can then turn into more
(08:49):
referrals, so it kind of feedsthe system In terms of mindset.
Let me say it like this okay,the leads that you're going to
get from social media are notgoing to be as good as referrals
.
I'm just going to say that it'sthe honest truth.
They're not going to be as goodas referrals.
You have to think of this likedating.
(09:10):
Okay, like you're dating, youknow, let's say you, you know,
you see this cute girl.
Maybe you're going to the gymand she works at the counter at
the gym.
Think of that girl as a lead.
Okay, you're not going to walkup to that girl and ask her to
marry you right away, becauseshe'd be freaked out and she'd
be like who the heck are you?
You're scaring me, and thenshe's going to run away
(09:31):
screaming.
Okay, however, you know, whatyou might do is you might, you
know, smile at her one day, nextday you might wave, maybe
you'll ask for her name the nextday following that, and then
eventually you'll ask for herphone number, take her out on a
date, so on, so on, and thenmaybe, down the line, you'll get
(09:51):
married.
But you can't just walk up tosomebody and ask them to marry
you.
That's weird and you're goingto get outcast for that.
That's the same thing asmarketing.
Okay, I think a lot of peoplekind of expect to get a lead and
then immediately close thatlead on the spot, like over text
, because they came in fromFacebook or Google.
Like there needs to be a goodlead nurture process in order to
(10:15):
actually turn those leads into,you know, sales.
So I know that's kind of afunny example, but like the like
, the parallels are really thereand I think it really kind of
kind of drives it at home.
Like when you think about itlike that, you're like, oh yeah,
like that'd be really weird,right?
Um, but some people that comeinto marketing and they expect
uh you know somebody who sentthem a message on Facebook to
(10:37):
like, agree to a 5,000, $10,000job.
Over three text messages, likeyou got to go to their place,
you got to shake their hand, youmay have to send them emails,
they may have to see you knowthe social proof about your
company and they may have to befollowed up on and then that
person will close.
It's not just like an automaticthing, uh, without a good, a
(10:58):
good nurture process in placeand without a good sales process
in place?
Um, that's why, like, our veryfirst step for all the clients
that we bring on is we got toget organized and there's gotta
be a good way to manage theseleads, cause if there's not,
you're kind of just wasting yourmoney.
Uh, that's why we uh hook allof our clients up with drip jobs
(11:19):
, one of our partners.
Uh, a phenomenal system tomanage those leads, help follow
up with those leads and trackwhat's going on.
Um, I mean, obviously you are aprime example of this.
Like you got to track what'sgoing on, or else you have no
idea, like what's happening.
That's where the good CRM comesin place and that system comes
in place, using those tools toactually track those leads and
(11:42):
nurture them along the line.
So think about this like dating, you know, don't just walk up
to a prospect and ask them tomarry you.
That you know.
Nurture them.
That's.
That's, that's my pitch.
Does that kind of make sense?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
No, I love the analogy.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.
But it's like when you thinkabout it you're like, oh yeah,
like that would be super weird,but honestly, like that's, I
think that's what a lot ofpeople sort of expect, which is,
like, you know, because they'vejust been working off of
referrals, which is phenomenal,like referrals are great, but,
uh, you know, it's just theleads sort of have to be handled
(12:19):
a little bit differently.
So just expect that when you'recoming into it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, one of the big complaints that I see.
Sometimes I'll get it to one ofthe clients that I work with or
I'll see it on social mediacomplaining about Facebook ads
being like, oh, I'm getting abunch of bad leads on Facebook
and you kind of touched on thison the leads that you're getting
(12:43):
from Facebook aren't going tobe like referrals.
But could you, could you diveinto that like a little bit more
on expectations of of what sortof leads are you actually
getting on Facebook and whatreally what should you be
expecting when you're gettingFacebook ad leads?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, of course.
So the the cons of Facebook adsand I'll be like totally
transparent about this the conscompared to like Google or
something else is that the leadsaren't as high of intent.
But the big pro to that is thatyou're getting a lot of people
that you wouldn't normally get.
You're not just throwing yourhands up and waiting for them to
reach out, like you are onGoogle or on your website or
(13:25):
something like that.
You're not just waiting forreferrals to roll in.
You're getting leads everysingle day in the door.
So it's very easy that Facebookleads can become your top lead
producer for the people that arecoming in.
Now that's where we see a lotof misunderstanding, is where
(13:47):
people kind of expect them to bethe same as referrals and
things like that.
And don't get me wrong, there'sa lot of things that we can do
to help improve the quality ofleads.
Making sure that you're showingin the right neighborhoods,
like we don't want to be showingads to people who, just
straight up, can't afford yourservices.
We want them to have the moneyfor a $5,000, $10,000 cabinet
job.
That's number one.
Have the money for a $5,000 or$10,000 cabinet job.
(14:11):
That's that's number one.
Number two is we can kind ofdisqualify people on the way, so
like, uh, let's say, forexample, we put like a question
in one of the forms that says,hey, you know what's your
project timeline.
If they say I'm looking to getsomething done in two years, we
may say, hey, probably not thebest fit to work together right
now, or the we'll get into thisa little later.
But, like our appointmentsetters, once those leads come
(14:32):
in, we call those leads and wequalify them over the phone.
So like this is something thatwe work out with each business
owner, maybe the radius thatthey operate in, or, if they
have maybe like a job minimum,we may say to the prospect hey,
it looks, you know, it lookslike you're, you're, you're
getting this done, so on and soforth.
We'll have a little bit of aconversation and then you know,
(14:53):
hey, just to let you know, ourjob minimum is 750 bucks or a
thousand dollars or whateverLike is that okay?
And then that that's a nice ofdifferent reasons that that
could come about.
(15:19):
One of them is because of leadmanagement.
That's the exact reason why westarted calling the leads for
our clients and we startedoffering appointment setting,
because we noticed that a lot ofour clients were.
They were getting leads onFacebook.
They were calling them like twoor three days later and then
they would come back to us andsay, hey, these leads suck.
I talked to them and they saidthey don't remember me and I was
(15:41):
like, oh, like that's terriblewhat happened.
And then, you know, I come tofind out they call them like
three days later and I'm likedude, of course they don't
remember you.
Like like speed, the lead isincredibly important.
Like you got to call thesepeople within five minutes.
And if you're the businessowner and you're hopping around
from job to job, you're doingthis and that, like it's
probably unrealistic to thinkthat you can just drop
(16:02):
everything and call the leadright then and there.
What if you're in an estimateor what if you're doing
something?
Like you know they just didn'thave the time, so that's why we
started offering it for them.
It's kind of a nice middleground to like if you don't have
a full-time in-office admin.
You know our appointmentcenters are working 14 hours a
day, seven days a week, so likewe're there when a lead comes in
(16:23):
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, that's, that's key.
I just last week I had aconsult for a newer client.
We're doing some budgeting for2025 and he was he hadn't done
Facebook ads before but hewanted to add that because he
wanted to grow to 500,000.
And so he was like I'm going tobudget $50,000 for Facebook
(16:47):
leads, facebook ads, to getleads from there.
I was like, okay, great.
And he had a marketing firmthat he had just signed up with
and I was like, okay, so how areyou going to deal with the
leads when they come in?
How are those being set?
How are those getting scheduledon your estimate calendar?
(17:08):
And he wasn't sure.
He didn't have a plan.
And I was like is the marketingcompany doing that for you?
Because it's not always a giventhat a marketing company is
going to set appointments foryou.
So that was some homework hehad.
So I think this is like a superkey thing to know about
Facebook is those, like you said, when those leads come in from
(17:30):
Facebook, it's speed to lead.
You have to have a really goodprocess If you're going to do it
in your business really goodprocess to handle those leads or
work with someone like you thatjust handles that for you and
sets the appointments for you.
So I think that's like reallykey and I love that you are
handling that for the folks thatyou work with.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So it also kind of helps us to do a better job for
them as well, because the I'lltell you, like you know I know
you didn't ask for a marketingagency therapy session here, but
I'm going to give you one todayUh that one of the most
challenging parts about being inlike our shoes is that we don't
always know what's going on onthe other end.
(18:12):
If a client isn't trackingtheir CRM and they're not
telling us what's going on, uh,we have no idea if those leads
are turning into appointments,if they're making money, how
much money they're making.
So because we have more controlover that, I can listen to
every single phone call andgauge how interested the
(18:32):
prospect is, if this is a goodfit, you know, so on and so
forth, and that allows us to dobetter advertising, because we
can.
We're also making those phonecalls so that we can kind of
understand more about what'sgoing on so that we can kind of
understand more about what'sgoing on.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
What are some?
Can you talk to me a little bitabout ads, facebook ads
themselves, like what makes agood ad, what makes a bad ad,
like what what?
I've heard different strategiesout there.
What have you seen that'sworked?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
yeah, of course.
So let me tell you this Like,if you are running Facebook ads,
if you're doing this foryourself, you probably got to
test some different ads.
You know it's probably not whatyou want to hear, but you can't
just set in for you Get it.
Your ads eventually, as peoplesee them, a lot will tend to die
out.
With that being said, the bestads that we normally see are
(19:29):
with the business owner in thead and some sort of video, so a
video of the business ownertalking about what they do,
maybe walking around a job thatthey completed or talking about
their services.
I want you to, when you'rethinking about the ads that you
are putting out on Facebook, Iwant you to think of it in the
(19:49):
shoes of your prospect.
Okay, talk about the type ofthings that your ideal prospect
wants to hear.
Your ideal prospect probablydoesn't want the cheapest guy
out there.
They probably want somebody whodoes great quality work, who
they can trust, who's honest,who has a great crew that they
(20:11):
know is going to take care ofthem.
They want a good, easyexperience, and so on, so on.
In your ads, you should betalking about the things that
appeal to your ideal prospect.
If you say you know, hey, thisis Joe's painting, we are the
cheapest people in town.
Uh, you know, we smokecigarettes inside your house and
blah, blah, blah, like you'reprobably going to get poor
(20:32):
quality leads.
If that's what you're puttingout there, you're going to get
the people who don't care aboutthat.
They just want, like, thecheapest thing possible and
those are probably not going tobe your ideal clients.
Um so, with that being said,you get out what you put into it
.
If you get out what you putinto it.
If you put out great qualityads, uh, you're going to attract
better quality people.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That makes sense and it seems like, um, I guess could
you talk to me about this, this, this phrase?
Uh, local painting celebrity.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So in addition.
So one of the great thingsabout Facebook ads is that you
can.
You can really kind of tellyour story and you can relate to
people.
What we try to do for all ofour clients is get them on
camera as much as possible.
Now now, like, what we do is weget like the actual video of
them talking.
We do all the editing, we cutit up, we make it look nice, all
(21:26):
the captions, but like, if weget like that, just that video
from him, that works wonders.
So the reason why is because ifyou, you know, let's say, you
run Daniel's painting, okay, andyou are all over your local
area, hey, this is Daniel, thisis what we do.
I'm your neighbor, I'm a familyman, you know, I, x, y and Z
(21:48):
people get to know you and thenthey start to like you.
So when you show up to theirhouse and shake your hand or
shake their hand, you're notjust some random guy from the
painting company, you're Daniel,the guy from the ad that
they've seen plenty of times,that they know and that helps
them trust you a little bit more.
So it kind of builds up yourauthority before you even step
into their door.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Mm-hmm.
And do you recommend because wehad talked about what Gary
Vaynerchuk recommends is todocument do you kind of have the
same recommendation forpainting businesses that they
need to make a habit of kind ofdocumenting their process of
painting houses and using thatto kind of help out their
marketing strategy?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, so there's kind of three main videos that we
start all of our clients offwith.
Uh, the first one is going tobe a little bit more general.
Hi, I'm Caleb, uh, we operate,or I operate Caleb's painting.
We do work in Macomb County,michigan, and we do interior,
exterior, cabinetry, um, andthen just, we prioritize high
quality work.
(22:50):
We're licensed, insured.
Just kind of a more of a littlebit more of a general ad.
That's, that's number one.
Number two would be some sortof like project walkthrough,
ideally showing like a beforeand after.
So, um, and if you can evenlike, tell a little bit of a
story, a story with it, likejust a quick little story.
It doesn't need to be anythingcrazy, but like like, for
example, you know, hey, uh,we're here at Susan's house.
(23:13):
She has this really bad problemwith her exterior.
Some of her wood is starting tocrack and get moldy and the
exterior paint is chipping.
This is what it looks like.
And then you know, fast forwardto the after.
Hey, you know, this is, we'reback at Susan's house here.
Look at how beautiful her houselooks.
We cleaned all of this up.
She's very happy, she's goingto have people over for the
holidays and she's very excitedto show off her new home.
(23:35):
It doesn't need to be this likelong story, but like painting
is obviously very visual.
Showing the before and after islike that's another good one
too.
Um, number three is going to belike our.
Our third kind ofrecommendation is some sort of
like testimonial heavy ad.
So if you can get like one ofyour prospects to say like hey,
(23:57):
I worked with Caleb and his team.
They did a phenomenal job on myhome.
They, you know, my exterior wasreally old and outdated.
Now it looks great.
I like my house so much morenow, or whatever, whatever
somebody else says about you islike 10 times more valuable what
you say like obviously you'regoing to say great things about
your, your business, because youown it, but if somebody else
(24:19):
says it like just like in aGoogle review or something like
that, it just holds a lot moreweight.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Makes sense.
So this next part.
The next question is is itgoing to be my favorite part of
the podcast?
Not that this has been bad sofar, it's been great, yeah but
I'd love to talk about themetrics.
What metrics do you like totrack for Facebook or meta ads
generally, and what should wefocus on, because there's so
(24:47):
much data that you can look at?
What do we really need to focuson?
And if you could give somebenchmarks, that would be
awesome, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
So I tried to keep this as simple as possible.
When we're looking at metrics,the number one, most important
thing is how much money you'reactually bringing in from the
ads.
The click through rate, costper lead, all that stuff none of
it matters unless you'reactually bringing money in from
the ads.
So that's number one.
That's at the top of thepyramid.
With that being said, at first,if you are starting off brand
(25:22):
new with advertising, you'reprobably not going to be at like
a 10% or 5% cost of marketing.
You're probably going to bemore like 15, maybe even 20.
But over time, your advertisingcost should be between 5% and
10% of your business.
So, for example, if you make$100,000 a month, you should be
spending $5,000 to $10,000 amonth on some sort of marketing.
(25:42):
That's kind of like the firstbig one.
Next up is going to be kind oflike the appointments and then
cost per lead stuff like that,appointments on Facebook and
Instagram of like theappointments and then cost per
lead stuff.
Like that Appointments onFacebook and Instagram.
Every about one out of everythree leads should become an
estimate.
(26:03):
So if a hundred leads come in,some people might not be a good
fit.
Some people might, you know beout of your service area.
But out of a hundred leads youshould go to about 30 estimates
from that.
So that's a 30% set rate.
On Google it'll be a littlehigher, about 70 or 80.
In terms of cost per lead, I'dsay 50 bucks on average is a
(26:24):
good thing to shoot for.
It's going to depend on yourmarket, who your competitors are
, but anywhere between like 40and 60, you're kind of in the
right spot here.
With that being said, there'sone more that I think is
important.
It is the.
If you look on Facebook, in theFacebook ads manager, there's
this metric called linkclick-through rate.
(26:46):
That means that people areclicking on your ads and they're
going to where you want them togo.
So that means your creatives,your copy, they like it enough
to kind of get to that next step.
Maybe that next step is fillingout a form, send a new message,
go into your landing page.
Whatever that next step is,that link click through rate
(27:07):
should be above 1%.
That means that if you show theads to 100 people, one or more
people make it to that next step.
That's kind of like the firstkind of top of funnel metric.
I don't want to get into likeanything else, because that'll
just kind of muddy the waters.
But those are the simple onesto kind of look at.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Okay so to recap, revenue from ads.
So just what you're gettingfrom from those Facebook ads,
what jobs are you closing, what?
What is the dollar amount ofrevenue you're getting from
those Facebook ad efforts?
And you said so that's numberone.
Then it trying to get um, ifyou're just starting out, a 15%,
(27:51):
15 to 20 to 20% marketing costsas a percentage of revenue from
Facebook, but trying to getthat down to 5% or 10% ideally.
And then appointments that arecoming in or, I'm sorry, leads
that are coming in, you'resetting at least one out of
three, so around a 33% set rate,like actually taking the lead
(28:16):
and putting it on your calendar.
If you're getting one out ofthree leads on the calendar, you
are good.
And then the click-through ratefor basically showing you the
ads looking at the click-throughrate of your ad, making sure
that it's above 1% to ensurethat the ad is effective.
There was one other thing I'mmissing.
(28:37):
What was the other?
Um?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
was it metric cost per lead.
Yeah, cost per lead.
I'd say about 40 to 40 to $60cost per lead.
Okay, that's, that's average.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So if you're listening to this, like on the
road or something, um, you know,I know this is kind of a lot of
numbers here.
But just to just kind ofsummarize, like at first, if you
are spending, you're spendingtwo dollars on ads and you're
getting back ten dollars in jobs, then that's good.
But you want to get to a pointwhere you're spending one dollar
on ads and getting back tendollars, but it's gonna, it's
(29:13):
not gonna be like off the cuff.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, and I guess if you let's say you're spending $3
and you're getting only $10,and what is what are the first
things that you would look at tokind of troubleshoot what's
going wrong?
Should I immediately fire mymarketing company?
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So I think so, so, so .
So here's what I'll say uh, Ithink you need to have a good,
open, honest conversation withyour marketing company so that
they can help you, like they arehere to help you and work you
through these problems and,realistically, it is a
partnership.
You can be the you can be thebest salesperson in the world,
but if they're not getting youleads, then you're not making
(29:53):
any money.
Or vice versa, if they'regetting you the best leads in
the world, but you can't closeanything, then you're not going
to be making money or happyeither.
So, uh, I think you should havea.
If you're in that situationwhere you're not making money,
it's important to have a good,open, honest conversation with
your agency to figure out whatthe heck is going on.
Um, conversation with youragency to figure out what the
(30:16):
heck is going on.
Um, the three main things that,at least if we ever have that
conversation, three main thingsthat we look at are are the
leads coming in?
Are they like, actually goodleads coming in?
Are those leads turning intoappointments?
And then, are those gettingclosed?
If, if a bunch of leads arecoming in, a bunch of
appointments are getting set,but they're just not getting
closed, then okay, let's learnabout that.
(30:38):
Does the sales team need alittle bit more training?
What's going on there?
Is this a sales issue or viceversa?
Maybe we're getting leads in,but on the phone we're only
booking 5% of those leads.
Okay, what's going on here?
Like, do the setters need to betrained?
Do we need to loosen up ourrestrictions a little bit?
(30:58):
You know, we look at eachnumber in the funnel and to kind
of pinpoint where the issue maybe.
That's basically like, ifyou're not, if you are not
hitting the numbers that youwant and you are not hitting
good numbers, the best thing Ican tell you is to look at your
CRM, look at your metrics.
Okay, where do the problems lie?
(31:19):
Am I not getting enoughestimates?
Am I not closing enoughestimates?
Am I not getting enough leads?
Where is the actual issue?
And then from there you canfurther.
Usually it's one of threethings it's either leads, set or
sales.
Usually there's not many otherthings.
It could be where the problemis.
So once you see where thatproblem actually is, then you
can kind of dive deeper intosolving it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
That makes sense, yeah.
So basically look at am Igetting leads?
Are those leads turning intoestimates and then are those
estimates turning into book jobs, and if there's a one of those
things isn't working too well.
If you can fix that thing, thenit might solve your issue.
Sounds like.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah.
So like, for example, if youare getting, if you're getting a
good amount of leads and you'regetting, you know you're
closing a good amount of them,but you're just not setting
enough appointments.
If you can just fix that number, like if you can set 5% more
(32:21):
appointments by maybe hiring asetter or training you know your
admin a little bit better thanjust having better speed to lead
like that helps all of yourother numbers like tremendously.
Like just fixing one of thosevariables like really cranks up
the volume on everything else,on everything else.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Nice, Cool.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Do you have any other tactics, tips, strategies for
Facebook for painting businessowners that we haven't talked
about so far.
For the most part, I thinkwe've kind of gone over a lot of
the Facebook, instagram tacticsand things like that.
I guess the last kind of thingthat I will say is paid
(32:56):
advertising.
You know, facebook, instagram,google, all this stuff it only
works as good as you work it, soyou got to give it a good,
solid try.
You know it's, if you'restarting this brand new, it's
going to take a little while tolearn how to do it and all that
type of stuff, if you're nothiring somebody else to do it.
Um, just, a lot of people havethis shiny object syndrome and
(33:17):
oh, I need to hop to Angie's orI need to hop to Google, or I
need to hop to this or that.
Like, everything works.
You just got to put in the timeto make it work.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, yeah, great advice.
I think, definitely I'm, uh,guilty of that myself.
You know, I'll try this for awhile.
Hop over, let's try this othermarketing channel.
How's that, how's that work?
But you're not just getting,you're not getting any traction
in the meantime and like wastingyour time.
So, yeah, that's, that's greatadvice.
So where can folks learn moreabout what you do over there at
(33:50):
Tarify?
What, what, what do folks needto do?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah.
So the first thing I'drecommend is go check out the
YouTube channel.
We have a ton of free content,free value, where we walk you
through exactly what we do, howwe do it, our successes, our
failures.
I even posted a video, probablyabout two, three weeks ago now,
about all the things that we'vechanged based on the feedback
(34:16):
that we got from our clients.
So like, if you just want tolearn a little bit more about
what we do, that's a great spot.
And if you want to kind oflearn a little bit more about
working with us, specificallywhere we can run all your ads
for you, set those appointmentsso that you and your sales team
can, you know, have more peopleto visit so that you guys can
close more deals, then I wouldcheck out our website just
wwwtorifycom and all of ourstuff's there.
(34:39):
You can book a call.
I will personally meet with youand kind of discuss where your
needs might be so we can kind oftake it to the next level and
help scale.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, caleb.
This was amazing.
I think you definitelydelivered on your promise of
delivering some amazing value,so I really appreciate your time
and with that, we will see younext week.
Thank you.
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