Andor - Season 2, Part 2

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The rebellion's darkest hour becomes Star Wars' finest achievement in Andor Season 2's concluding episodes. We dive deep into how Tony Gilroy crafted a masterclass in tension, political intrigue, and character development that forever changes our understanding of the Star Wars universe.

The Gorman massacre stands as perhaps the most haunting sequence ever created in Star Wars - a perfectly constructed trap that shows the Empire's ruthless calculus and leaves us questioning how we'd respond in similar circumstances. This leads to fascinating discussions about Syril Karn's moral journey: is his horror at witnessing genocide enough to redeem his previous actions, or does his confrontation with Dedra only further complicate his character?

Mon Mothma emerges as the unexpected MVP of these episodes, delivering a Senate speech that rivals anything in the franchise for political tension. The procedural details - senators yielding their time, parliamentary maneuvers - create an authenticity rarely seen in science fiction. This groundwork makes her eventual leadership of the Rebellion all the more earned and meaningful.

The Force makes its first significant appearance through the mysterious healer who identifies Cassian as a "messenger" - a subtle but powerful reminder that even in this grounded take on Star Wars, cosmic forces still guide the galaxy's fate. Meanwhile, Luthen's capture and Kleya's difficult decision to ensure he doesn't fall into Imperial hands delivers emotional devastation without feeling manipulative.

Perhaps most satisfying is how perfectly these episodes connect to Rogue One, answering questions we didn't even know we had. From Cassian's pre-existing knowledge of Galen Erso to his partnership with the newly-reprogrammed K-2SO, every element enriches our understanding of his journey toward Scarif. The show demonstrates how prequels should function - not just filling gaps, but transforming our perspective on what comes after.

Why does this series resonate so deeply? Because it never forgets that resistance requires sacrifice, that freedom fighters aren't always heroic, and that hope often comes at terrible cost. Andor depicts the messy, complicated birth of a rebellion with unflinching honesty - proving that Star Wars can deliver sophisticated adult storytelling without sacrificing what made us fall in love with this galaxy far, far away.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to episode 125 of Project Geekology
.
We have a very special showtoday.
We're talking Andor season 2,specifically the last six
episodes.
So we are completing our Andordiscussion this week.
I'm one-third of your host,dakota.
I'm joined, as always, withRhydonium.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Every day more lies.
This is Anthony.
You know, yes, we are coveringandor super excited and you know
, joining us, as always is rich.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
What's going on, guys ?
I'm very excited to really jumpinto this.
I think the maybe the best halfseason of the show I've ever
seen.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I think it might be the best half season of a show
period.
I think I mentioned it on the,the podcast before, but the last
five episodes of andor, youknow, from episode 8 to episode
12, are the only live actionepisode, the only consecutive

(01:02):
live action episodes in a TVshow to rate over 9.5 on IMDb,
which is just a staggering score.
Because everybody knows StarWars Online is very polarized so
it's very unlikely that thatcould ever happen.
But this show really is thatgood.
So if you haven't seen it andyou're allowing yourself to be

(01:24):
spoiled, just step away for alittle bit.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Watch andor yes, very good.
Yes, actually, before we we hopinto the stuff that we've been
into, go definitely go check theshow notes and we will place
the time stamp for when thediscussion actually starts.
So go head on over there rightnow if you want to skip what

(01:46):
we've been up to.
You know it won't.
It won't hurt our feelings, wewon't know, but uh yes, it'll
hurt, it'll hurt.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Speak for yourself, man, like honestly I have about
17 minutes of baseball talk thatI'm about to get into guys yeah
, strap in, baby, we're, we're,we're.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Mid-discussion of moving Rich over to a baseball
podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Rich and the Rumble Ponies, a podcast only about the
Binghamton Mets, the AA-levelteam.
So if you guys want to checkthat out, just search that up.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
There you go.
Well, I mean since we're on you, you rich, won't you tell us
what you have been up to?

Speaker 3 (02:26):
oh, so in the time that we have talked uh, charlie,
actually my son graduated fromk to five, fifth grade.
I'm sure you're all excited,but what you really care about
is that I'm excited I decidedthat it was time for his half
birthday gift, because we hadalready got him a graduation
gift, and I went ahead and gothim a switch too nice.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, I remember you uh mentioning that, the last
episode yeah, so I finally gotto pick it up.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
On june 20th I picked it up.
I gotta hand me up.
So I got the.
I got the switch one now which?
Is great because you know thiskid, like he had lent it to me
last summer, early on, and I wastrying to I didn't want to say
I was in a hundred percentbreath of the wild, but I wanted
to explore it, I wanted to getdeep into it, I wanted to just

(03:13):
really play it like I would sayred dead redemption and he's
like, oh, you got enough hearts.
You could be ganon.
And he like directed me tobecause he had already beat it
and he was playing um, he wantedto play tears of the kingdom,
so he kind of rushed me throughit.
So I'm really happy now becauseI've been playing it, he's, now
you can actually breathe breathof the wild I finally got.

(03:35):
I never had the online accountlike I had it under.
Oddly, I was umbrellaed underhis account and then I finally
kind of got a family account.
So now I have my own properthing and he's got his switch
too.
He's got the expansion pack, sohe got the upgrades for breath
of the wild and for tears of thekingdom.
So he's been playing that againand actually he's playing wind

(03:57):
waker now, but the load timesare.
I mean, it's crazy, it's Ireally.
If you have the money, and eventhough the lineup right now is
not super star-studded, that Idon't think you have to run out
and get it.
I will say that the way thatthe controllers attach and
detach the Joy-Cons are so much,so so much better, Like it's

(04:23):
like a button, kind of magnetthing, that kind of snaps on and
off instead of doing thesliding.
Okay, because we had gotten somelike third party controllers
and the actual the joy cons likeyeah, they don't and they don't
always like yeah, they'd slideoff a little bit.
it'd be really frustrating and Ireally hated it.
So I got that, you know, and Ipaired it my, you know my son

(04:44):
had gotten me the N64 controller, so I've been.
I was playing some Mario Kartat 64.
So honestly, although I wasreally against getting it this
early, seeing the just how muchbetter it is in all aspects,
like they really.
The screen size is markedlybigger.

(05:04):
I know I would watch my studentsplay like, I guess, mario kart
or whatever, when they had itpropped up and they both had joy
cons and it always seemed sosilly because it's such a silly,
tiny screen compared to what weplay on now.
And this seems less silly ifyou're sitting there with the
pal just in the middle ofnowhere, whatever you set up, it
doesn't seem as absurd.

(05:25):
The screen size is nicer, theJoy-Cons are heftier, they feel
nice in your hands and Charlie'shappy.
Yeah, no, he's ecstatic.
I have a Switch One now, whichI'm.
Despite all the upgrades thatI'm touting, I really like the
Switch One.
I'm going to buy Mario Odyssey,so by the next time that we
cover, I'll probably have somethoughts on a game that's 12

(05:46):
years old.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Which I actually think that also got an upgrade
for the Switch 2.
Oh yeah, I think that thatone's running at 60 frames.
I know that Pokemon, scarletand Violet also got some really
big upgrades.
Now, like more Pokemon spawn,it runs at like 60 frames.
You know like there's a lot ofgames that came out on the first

(06:11):
switch that you know.
As much as I love the switchfor its innovation really
hindered the potential that alot of these games had because
of how underpowered it is.
And you know I mean compared toa lot of stuff that's out.
You know it's stillunderpowered but I would say
that still.
You know a lot of these gameslike tears of the kingdom.

(06:34):
You know that game is amazing.
But I remember, you knowtelling myself like dude, this
game is not meant for the firstswitch, it's just not.
It could be looking so muchbetter if we had something that
was a little bit stronger to touh support it.
And now you know I've I've seenthat it looks a lot better on

(06:55):
the switch too excellent,excellent, anthony.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
What else?
What have you been up to,honestly?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
not not all that much , man, uh, I I've got, I've got
a couple, or I have a conventionthat's coming up in a couple
weeks super con and I got presspasses for that.
So there'll definitely beeither like a mini sode or a
discussion on that.
And, yeah, man, I, I'm, I'mpretty stoked to go to that.

(07:24):
And I feel like, honestly and Iknow you feel this I feel like
there's something else that Ihave to say, but I just don't
remember and at some point I'lleither remember during the
podcast, like I did rememberthat one time I was like oh yeah
, I went to go, I saw theMinecraft movie and.
I forgot to mention it in thebeginning.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's something like that's gonna
happen.
So I mean, I know, I knowyou're heavily invested in the
marvel tv shows right now.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Have you been watching ironheart dude?
You know, like we talked aboutthe, we had that whole
discussion on on captain america4 and you know I'm just largely
kind of disillusioned with theMCU.
I think that we just need abreak from it for a little while
.
I think that they need to goback to the drawing board and
really like try to figure outwhere their direction is.

(08:14):
But you know, on the other handwhich is kind of crazy because
you know we got Star Wars We'vebeen having consistent Star Wars
for for what?
The last 10 years now.
I mean sure we had clone warsand rebels that came out during
like the period between 2005 and2015, but it wasn't as

(08:37):
consistent as what we're gettingnow within the these like past
10 years from.
You know, the force awakens upuntil now and you know, even
though that, yes, star wars hasdefinitely had a lot of stinkers
, I am still hanging around fora lot of their stuff and you
know we're about to talk aboutone, I mean arguably like the

(09:00):
greatest star wars show that'sout.
So I'm definitely excited,excited to dive into that.
What about you, dakota?
What have you been up to?

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, yeah, I'm excited to talk about Andor as
well.
I do think it is the currentbar for the quality standards
that can be met within the StarWars galaxy.
It doesn't need to always bethat mature, doesn't always need
to be that level of productionquality, but it can be and
that's something that we didn'tknow before and I feel like
that's something that I think alot of people are going to

(09:31):
expect, hopefully, moving on,and hopefully the studio also
expects quality of that standard, because that will help push
better content out.
Speaking about, hopefullybetter content.
Speaking about, hopefully,better content there's a rumor
going around that Obi-Wan seasontwo has been greenlit.
I don't know if Rich has seenthat news yet.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't know if it was a troll or not, because I
just briefly saw it and I sawsome responses to it.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I do think I trust the person who reported it.
It's Daniel RPK.
He's been in the Scoop game fora while now and, yeah, I trust
a lot of his reporting.
Even if it doesn't come tofruition, I do believe that
there are talks being had for apotential Obi-Wan season two.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, I think that even goes as far back as the
original, like when that seriesfirst dropped, because, remember
, it was originally slated as alimited series and then they
dropped that limited part to it.
Yeah, yeah, it was almost likemaybe, yeah yeah, so potentially
I mean maybe, maybe they'll theyou know they had something

(10:42):
going with with obi-wan maybe ifthey tackle some of the issues
that they had in the firstseason, it could have a really
good second season yeah, no,they definitely it can't.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
It can be good, you know, it can be done.
Obi-wan's a great characterhe's.
He's got a lot of hiddenstories that we have no idea
about.
I just hope, hope it's reallygood.
Anywho, I don't have too muchgoing on right now.
The reason we were off lastweek I think Rich was also busy,
but not so busy that hecouldn't record I was

(11:18):
frantically studying for a testthat I took over this past
weekend and that's over.
So I'm feeling a lot better.
I don't have to study like cram, study like crazy anymore.
Don't know if I passed yet, butI'm pretty sure I did.
So that was good and it's formy job, basically.
And next week I'm going to beaway.

(11:38):
It's not going to be a normalpodcast Like we.
You know, instead of the topicsthat we normally cover, I'm
going gonna be in disney world,so I'm gonna be having a lot of
fun elsewhere in the world, andby elsewhere I mean florida.
But but yeah, I think that'sall that I got going on right
now.
Anyone else want to bring?

(11:59):
Oh, rich you, you did watchiron heart.
You want to touch on thatbriefly?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, I think it's actually the best piece of
Marvel TV in quite a while.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
I, you know it's got, unfortunately.
I watched three episodes.
I watched four episodes.
I watched the first three onthe drop and then I watched the
fourth one.
My family had been behind me,so I watched the fourth one with
them when it came out at 9o'clock on the first night and

(12:29):
then my son had to go to bed, soI went to sleep and I
accidentally scrolled throughtwitter and spoiled one of the
major kind of points, I think,in the last three episodes.
But I ended up still reallyliking it.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
I mean, is it a point with sasha baron con?
Yes, I have no idea what it is.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Well, so thing, you know, but I think that I think
it has some pretty bigimplications.
I wonder how they're going totreat it.
I'm curious to see, if I don'tknow, if it's going to be really
required viewing, but I thinkit's way better than, let's say,
echo, like echo was fine and Igot some lore on a character

(13:05):
that I didn't really care tofind lore about how do you feel
it compares to daredevil,because I know that you like
daredevil porn definitelydifferent shows.
I mean daredevil's like law andorder, svu, you know, superhero
edition, and this is definitelydifferent.
I kind of liken it in a way,but I think it's better than

(13:28):
miss marvel.
I.
I also have a special place inmy heart for riri as well as
miss marvel, because they aretwo characters that had comic
lines come out and I startedreading them from like the very
beginning and right.
So you're you, so you fullyknow these characters.
Yeah, they're not like the onethey swapped out and they had

(13:49):
what's his name?
Amadeus Cho as Hulk and theyhad Jane Foster as Thor.
I like that.
These are separate characters,essentially.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
And new characters, yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
I really like Riri Williams, so I thought this was
a really fun exploration.
And it's again another Marvelshow that does deal with grief
from the grieving process,because you know what is grief
but love persevering.
So what is marvel but love ofcomics persevering through bad
movies sometimes and shows toreward you with something that's

(14:21):
actually kind of fun.
So anyone out there who hasn'tseen it and is on the fence
about it, I would actually saythat it's a really fun way to
spend six hours cool.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
All right, you guys ready to talk about uh some
kalkite and uh radonium?
Yes, sir and a little bit ofrogue one, because I think yes
rewatched Rogue One after that.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yes, yes, yes, definitely man.
Yeah, I was gonna.
I wanted to save that part forthe actual discussion, but yeah,
definitely.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
All right, so let's start with the first three
episodes.
We're now a year past thesecond arc.
You know the weird arc whereeveryone was high for some
reason.
And now we are.
Yeah, now we actually have todeal with some major issues in
the galaxy.
The Empire is playing its hand.

(15:14):
No more time is being allottedto finding Kalkide alternatives.
They're going all in.
They need what's under thesurface of Gorman.
What is your favorite episode,guys, of these last six episodes
?
Where do you sit?
What are your favorites?
The episodes start with you,anthony.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Oh yeah, go ahead rich as they're taking when
andor has to meet up with andtake care.
Okay, like that.
I remember we we were, I forgotwe were covering, but I had
spoken about watching it in themoment and how, like that was
one of the most.
I never thought that, like youknow, the senate would get me

(15:59):
excited, but here we were.
You know, I was, I was on theedge and what's absolutely
insane is I obviously knew thatshe was going to make it right,
but I still was like oh man,what's gonna happen?
What's gonna happen?
And like that's a testament totony gilroy, right?

Speaker 1 (16:19):
yeah, I mean so tony gilroy was brought in late in
the game when it comes to RogueOne.
It had a number of draftswritten and the film had mostly
been shot by the time TonyGilroy showed up and just
cleaned up the plot a little bit, and some people argue that he
should have gotten a partialdirecting credit because so much

(16:39):
had changed with Rogue One.
So much had changed with RogueOne, so it was really awesome
seeing him take on the role ofhead writer for a show like this
, for characters that we didn'tthink needed a show.
Several like almost ten yearsafter the Well, maybe not ten
years, but a good number ofyears after the fact that Rogue

(17:02):
One was complete.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
It was such a strange thing to get Andor and, yeah,
now we're actually likereceiving some of the best tv
that we've seen ever right,right and and you know I've said
this like multiple times youknow this discussion and even
outside of this discussion thatyou know Andor was definitely a
series that nobody asked for oryou know, maybe a small group of

(17:26):
people, I'll give them thatthere were a lot of like.
You know there were some major,you know cassie and andor fans
after rogue one but you know,after you know you kind of
talking about tony gilroy really, you know, taking the helm of
the show you like, and wealready loved what we had gotten
with rogue one.
Imagine if he was there fromthe beginning, man, it would

(17:48):
have been probably crazy dudelike that, that movie.
But as far as like episodes,that the mon mothma one was
really good.
I really did like her monologueand and you know we finally got
these two characters that we've.
You know they've been kind oflike on different ends of the
universe and they're kind oflike together.

(18:09):
Now it's that introduction.
You finally got Cassian meetingMon Mothma.
Definitely episode eight washuge.
Episode eight, just like thatone, was like really, really
tense.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
And it was.
It's such an insane thing tohave tense.
Oh yeah, it's such an insanething to have filmed Right right
and they did it well.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
They did it so believably you can't take your
eyes away from the screen as yousee everything unfolding and
it's so crazy.
With all the meta knowledgethat you have, you know
something's about to go down.
You know that this is a trap,but these people don't know it's
a trap.
And then, obviously, theepisode that I really liked a
lot was the last episode.

(18:54):
It rolled in so cleanly intoRogue One, like I mean, it
rolled right into the movie.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
And I didn't expect it to Right Not that I didn't
expect these the, the show, tolike work with the movie.
I didn't expect that they weregoing to lead the finale of and
or directly into rogue one, andI'm glad that they did, because
there's so many little thingswithin the series that we learn

(19:25):
about Cassian, we learn abouthis backstory, and we would have
previously just taken all ofthat for granted.
The first thing that I thinkyou'll notice when you rewatch
Rogue One you'll find a bunch oflittle things in there like oh
yeah, how did he know about that?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Or oh yeah yeah he did mention stuff like that yeah
, like yeah, I thought the exactsame thing, dude.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
It filled in so many holes when he goes to tivic on
the rings of kathleen and hegoes galen or so, you know, like
he already knows the name galenor so before tivic brings it to
his attention and it's justlike, oh yeah, how would he have
known who this random guy onEadu was?
You know, like he's been like away Galen Erso is a nobody

(20:12):
essentially in the galaxy, likehe hasn't ever been anything,
and it's kind of the whole plotof Rogue One is that not even
his own daughter knows wherethis guy is.
So like, how would this randomrebel know anything about Galen,
or so?
And it's just like, wow, okay,because he found out from Luthen
.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right yeah, and it's crazy because you know Tivic
being like that, he's that rebelthat he shoots in the beginning
of that movie and you know theytalk about him at the end of
Andor and you're like, oh man, Iknow where that I know what's
about to happen to that guy.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
do you feel that the character of andor is consistent
, like fully consistent,throughout andor and rogue one,
or do you feel that some of thethings that he does might feel a
little bit more shallow inRogue One just because he
doesn't have that backstory?

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I feel like Rogue, or I feel like Andor, really
cements why he does what he doesin Rogue One.
Because of everything he's gonethrough man, he's gone through
so much since the beginning ofSeason 1.
And a lot of dude, it's all beenfor the sake of the rebellion.

(21:25):
You know, he got sold on it byluthan and by the end of it
luthan, the guy that brought himinto the fold, is dead man and
so like he kind of carries that,that a little bit of a chip on
his shoulder because he's likeyou know, I've been doing this
for so long.
He sold out for it, man, hesold out for the rebellion.
That's why it was so easy forhim to like just kind of stage,

(21:48):
like his own little, like youknow, take his own little group
to go to scarif it dude, thatwas such an andor thing to do,
like just to go and do his ownthing.
That's on track with what hedoes and they they were pretty
much consistent with that's whathe does.
Like he's part of the rebellionbut he's gonna do his own thing
a time or two.

(22:09):
He will be a team player butwhen he needs to do something
he'll do it, whether he gets thepermission or not yeah, rich
did you?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
did you notice anything from rogue one that was
heightened because of yourviewing of andor?
I'm sure there's a couplethings that like popped up.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean his motivations obviously are
clearer and easier to kind ofunderstand because you know you
do have him like quickly killingso flippantly and he seems very
much like luthan esque in thisidea that you know I do what I

(22:46):
have to do and it doesn't matter.
But now we know why he doeswhat he has to do and why you
know it's not even.
It makes it more noble, almostthat he's doing this for
somebody who left him right,essentially like he's creating
that sunrise for somebody whochose who will say it even

(23:07):
though he.
Yeah, you know, and that'sbecause I think too often we get
that hero who sacrifices hislove, right, and that's kind of
very tropey and I, I like it.
I like it way better this way.
I think the only thing thatmaybe we don't get is the.
He definitely feels more likeHan in that he's.

(23:29):
You know, hokey religions andancient weapons are no match for
a blaster your side kid like.
He feels that way way more inRogue One and, you know, at the
end of Andor, and that'sobviously just because of the
way they filmed it in the order,right.
But he kind of seems to be alittle bit more accepting of his

(23:49):
role in the larger scheme ofthe force, right, and I don't
feel like that's something thatthat continued, but that's, it's
such a hyper nitpick that Ican't, you know, I can't even
fault them for it, you know, Ilike it.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
I like that.
I guess you could take youcould take that thread and kind
of expand on it, because whenyou know, throughout the two
season Fourth of July Well, it'snot actually fourth of July,
but I have a lot of fireworksoutside.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
I honestly thought you had a it's 4th of July, but
I have a lot of fireworksoutside.
I honestly thought you had ait's the 2nd of July I thought
we were going to hearfee-fi-fo-fum and you had a
giant sitting outside of yourhouse knocking at the door.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I didn't know what was happening, bro oh my gosh, I
don't even know what side of myhouse that came from awesome
all right, sorry guys no um whatwas I even saying?
I feel like I hope that doesn'tkeep happening.
You can make that point thatthroughout the first two seasons

(24:56):
he learns that he is this guywho has to get the job done, or
has to get from point a to pointb, or he has to, like, deliver
a message, or he has to delivera person, and sometimes he does
that despite his better judgmentand despite other people's
permission and it's consistentwith rogue one, because it's

(25:16):
exactly what he does in rogueone.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's exactly what he does.
Yeah, he's a messenger herealizes.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
He realizes that the message that Jyn Erso has to say
or is telling the Rebellion isthe truth, it's something worth
fighting for.
And not only that, but thebigger message, which is what
Galen Erso wrote into the codefor the construction of the
Death Star.

(25:42):
That's a message that needs toget to the Rebellion so that
they can end this thing for good.
It's, it's too big of a thingto succeed, basically like the
death star needed to be dealtwith immediately, or else it
would have become like just thishuge tyrannical government
across the galaxy, even worsethan it already was so yeah I do

(26:03):
like motivation wise.
I do think that you know you canspin it in a way where it's
like well, these things kind ofmake sense in retrospect.
But if you are looking at thecharacter's decisions in rogue
one as opposed to what he doesin andor, I feel like it's
mostly mostly pretty consistentand I'm really pleased by that.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Let's jump back to the first three episodes.
So we have what happens onGormin, we have Mon Mothma's
speech and there's anotherepisode.
I forget what happens in theseventh episode.
It's a shame because thatepisode was good, I remember,
but it's just so overshadowed bywhat happens and over season
two.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
I have, but like it's just so overshadowed by what
happens and over season two, Ihave a hard time separating the
episodes.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
They become so mushy because, oh well, well, wow, oh
okay oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
it's the messenger episode.
It's where cassian learns thatyou know, the force is real,
basically, and it's also like anepisode that kind of highlights
that Bix may be Force-sensitive, because she says that she's
felt it a couple times.
She's felt this inkling aboutCassian being something more

(27:16):
important than what he assumesthat he is and apparently she's
had dreams about this.
She's really contemplating likewhat the what the deal is with
this guy?
right she she finally brings himto a force healer because he's
he has some injury on his armthat we don't even know where it
came from a blaster shot thatisn't healing, or something.

(27:38):
So they, they take him to thisforce healer and, yeah, it's.
It becomes this like reallyweird scene you guys want to
like.
What did you think of thatscene?

Speaker 3 (27:50):
I mean, it's very much like it reminded me of
times where, like I'm guessing,like harry, almost like harry
potter, would meet someone andit was just this.
Oh, there's something about you, you know, like this very
chosen one.
It kind of jarred me a littlebit at first, because we haven't
had any of that stuff right inin this story as yeah, I think

(28:13):
that was the first time theforce was brought up in both
seasons, right, yeah?
so it was definitely out ofcharacter almost for the show
and I I wonder if they had leftit out, if it would have been
okay.
I mean, it does explain awayhis penchant for being in the
right place at the right time,right.
And I'm not sure if they'rejust doing it as a way to kind

(28:35):
of get out of that, if they'retrying to ground it in some
weird way.
They're grounding it and makingit more realistic by saying
that it's because of a mysticalforce that's actually a funny
way to put it.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
It's instead of, you know, trying to rationalize it
with real world concepts,they're using the physical
boundaries of the star warsuniverse, which is makeup of the
force, to explain away how hehas survived all these events
and like why he is so pivotal toall of this, and I really like

(29:07):
that concept.
I like the idea that he learnsalong with us that he is kind of
a chosen one, and there's acouple chosen ones in this
galaxy, apparently, and theyeach kind of have their own path
, and that's that's kind of.
The cool thing about the forceis that it doesn't seem like
it's only focused on theSkywalker family at this point.

(29:28):
You know like this is more thanjust the Skywalker family.
This is the Force trying tobring balance to the galaxy.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Right.
Well, it's kind of going backto something that you had said
before.
It's that moment that reallydoes establish Andor as a
fulcrum in the star warsuniverse.
You know, rather than like,rather than it being like a
catalyst or him being a catalyst, he definitely is somebody
that's essential for that tohappen.

(29:57):
You know, and yeah, I, I, Ididn't that that didn't bother
me so much.
I thought it was actually coolto see somebody that was a force
user, that I mean, maybe at onepoint she was a Jedi, but you
know, obviously she's tappedinto the force, like I always

(30:17):
thought about, there aredefinitely force users that are
neither Sith or Jedi.
They just somehow were able tofind a way to tap into it and
use it, and so I kind of viewedher as that kind of person.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
The way I like to view the force and like all
these different.
You know cause there's there'sdifferent force religions and
force cults out there and youknow you got the night sisters,
who have youightsisters, whoexhibit the Force in a more
magical way than the Jedi do,and the Sith are more

(30:51):
brutalistic.
There's different ways oftapping into this Force, but
ultimately it's the same sourceof power throughout the galaxy.
No matter what you call it,it's the same source of power
and it's basically like one bigmagic system that anyone in the
galaxy can interact with to somedegree and with this force

(31:15):
healer.
I don't think that she was ajedi.
I didn't get that vibe,especially because what it
seemed to me was happening wasthat the I don't know how to
describe it seemed like she wasamateurish, you know, like it
was just like an amateur thingthat she was practicing and

(31:36):
sometimes it she said it.
Sometimes it works, sometimesit doesn't.
With cassie and it actually didwork, and probably it worked
well, because he was verysurprised by how quickly he was
able to regain motion in his armafter the fact.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
But yeah, I didn't catch that or I didn't think
that she was necessarily a Jedipreviously.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, pretty much exactly like.
What I was thinking was thatshe was somebody that somewhere
along the lines of her lifefound a way to tap into the
force.
And you know that could havebeen in many number of ways that
you kind of you know named.
You know there I mean, yeah,sure, there's, you know, force

(32:17):
cults and all that stuff.
But who knows, maybe there wasjust a group of people that got
together, they figured out thatthey have this different
connection and learned how touse it together.
You know that, outside of beinga cult, you know, yeah,
definitely it was.

(32:43):
It was interesting to see theandor because I mean, you know,
at the end of the day, andor isstill within the star wars
universe and I don't think itdetracted from the show.
You know we did get thatimportant moment out of.
You know him, yeah, him being amessenger, that confirmation
pretty much, and yeah, that thatit really does.

(33:05):
It makes you look back onto theshow and it makes you look at
rogue one and you realize like,yeah, this guy really is a
messenger so let's jump forwardto episode eight, which is the
the big gorman massacre episode.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's been teased throughout the season.
In the first first week we hadKrennic, you know expressing
that like we really need thisGorman Kalkite, which is a
mineral that's found deepbeneath the crust of this planet
.
But to get to that it will meandestabilizing the planet and
killing the entire ecosystem,including everyone lives there.

(33:44):
But you know, several yearspass, they, they try to
determine if it's viable to, youknow, not destabilize the
planet and, you know, findanother alternative, which I
guess was nice ish.
But eventually they needed whatthey needed and there was, you
know, nothing stopping themreally right.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
How hard did they try that?
That's the question they?

Speaker 1 (34:09):
they definitely.
Yeah, we don't know.
We actually don't know how hardthey tried.
They did say that they hadtheir people on edu, which is
like galen urso and all themtrying to find alternatives for
the panels for the weapon, butultimately they needed Kalkai,
for whatever reason, and it onlyseems to have existed on the

(34:30):
planet Gormon.
And yeah, so after that pointwe had Cyril Karn go and
infiltrate the Gormon people,you know, try to start inciting
a rebellion so that they couldbring Axis out of hiding.
And I love that arc too,because you know we have Andor
coming as a fashion designer andlittle does Cyril know.

(34:54):
He's like walking by Cassianfor like a couple days.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, for real.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
And then, by the time of the Gormin Massacre, Cyril
is seemingly a changed person.
Before this was all about, youknow, like he's doing his job to
the utmost.
You know like he's definitelygoing to bring these rebels down
.
Empire's the greatest blah,blah, blah.
These people are, you know,overblowing this scenario and
whatever.
But as soon as you know he seeswhat's really happening, that

(35:26):
they're inciting violence within, you know the, the gorman
people, they're laying out atrap for them.
They have ships coming todescend to mine, the planet
right right cyril's a differentperson.
What do you guys think aboutcyril's?
You know, change of heart.
Is it deserved?
Is he worthy of forgiveness atall?

(35:47):
I have no mercy.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
I don't, yeah, I don't think that his blindly
being in comp that's incompetent.
He willingly blocked out whathe wanted to block out and until
it was it was, it was blindloyalty until it was, until it
was unavoidable.
That's when he confronted it.

(36:08):
Too little, too late, man likeyou're infiltrating this group.
He knew what he was doing rightand and he just convinced
himself that they were the badguys.
It's difficult to talk aboutthat episode at that arc without
getting too analogous to what'sgoing on in certain parts of

(36:29):
our world, but it was a littlescary, I won't lie.
It hit home a little bit harderto kind of see this unfurl, and
for me cyril is like too manypeople out there that are just
willingly being ignorant andthen will be indignant when it
happens like oh, no, what?

(36:50):
no, no, this is not what Iwanted, you know, it's just he's
so believable I just, he's sucha believable character, but I
will say I strongly dislike himand ethically I cannot forgive
him.
I also didn't forgive jamielannister, so okay, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
I, I like the, I like the qualifier there.
Anthony, how do you feel aboutcyril?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I don't think it's that easy I don't think it's as
easy as saying black and whitewith cyril I really do not think
that it's that easy to be likeyes, the thing is a lot of.
His character is believable,because blind loyalty is
something that is, you know,very, you know it's very real

(37:35):
and it's a human trait yeah,exactly, it is a human trait.
The thing that was differentabout cyril is that there were a
lot of people who knew what washappening and they actively
turned their eye to it.
But the thing is is that therewere a lot of people who knew
what was happening and theyactively turned their eye to it.
But the thing is is that cyrilwas sold something and he
believed it.
And when he, when his eyesfinally opened that they sold

(37:58):
him bs, he realized wow, youknow, essentially like, what did
I do?
And that's why he was out therein that crowd.
He could have easily justhidden that room, you know, with
with the other people, but no,he was out there really
witnessing the lie that he wasbeing sold and I felt bad for
him because you know he wasbeing strung along by also you,

(38:23):
dedra, and I understand your,you know definitely issues and
any anger towards dedra, butcyril was definitely somebody
who thought he was doing his job.
That has always been who cyrilhas been.
You know, ever, ever since,from the, from the beginning of
the series.

(38:43):
That is always how he's been.
Of course, he is the portrayalof an antagonistic character,
but I like that he existsbecause he is not a black or a
white character.
He is somebody that existswithin the gray.
I don't completely dislike himfor that reason, but he does do
things that piss me off.

(39:04):
Completely dislike him for thatreason, but he does do things
that piss me off.
You know, like, like all allthe all caution went to the wind
as soon as he saw cassie andI'm like, oh, dude, like the,
the sympathy that I felt for youin that moment, is just gone
now, my jaw definitely droppeddropped, you know, when he took
a blaster bolt to the temple soI want to hop on and you know I

(39:25):
I see what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Rich in the sense that this is a person who had
every opportunity to see thetruth, but I don't know that
that's necessarily true based onhis position within the
hierarchy of the empire he.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
We only saw him being gaslighted a couple of times.
All right, but imagine, okay,he's getting home from work
every single day, right.
He's with dedra, right, likethey're recapping their days and
they're talking things over,like we saw a couple of
instances of him being blindlyloyal.

(40:04):
But he was sitting like doingall these things and openly
listening to Deirdre gaslighthim with no attempt for thought
of his own.
I don't.
As a teacher, it's really hardfor me to sit there and be okay

(40:27):
with a person who is, I believeto be, negligent.
We have a responsibility tounderstand the world around us
and he was negligent in hispersonal relationship and in his
political kind of loyaltiesrelationship and in his

(40:48):
political kind of loyalties,like he openly wanted that life
right Because his mom had madehis life so terrible that he was
just so desperate to have thisrelationship and have good
standing that he I think he waswillfully ignorant.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I kind of agree with both of your sentiments and I'm
going to give the middle groundopinion here.
What I will say about Cyril isthat every job that he's had up
to this point has been behind acomputer.
This is his first real fieldassignment that he is seemingly
doing a really good job at andhe's getting accolades and he's
you know, he's receiving praisefrom the top.

(41:23):
Even Partagas is like well done, cyril.
I think that does chemically dosomething to the endorphin
center in your brain thatrewires you a little bit.
And you're right that he shouldhave realized at this point
that they're making stuff up.

(41:44):
These rebels aren't actually,you know, as bad as they're made
out to be, which I think thathe realizes by the time, because
a year passes between the lasttime that we saw him first begin
his spycraft on gorman and bythe time that we see his
character in this gorman episode.
He's changed.

(42:04):
He clearly likes the rebels, heclearly feels closer to them
than he does, dedra, and I thinkthat there is even hinted love
between him and the daughter ofthat rebel leader.
I forget, I forget their names,but you know like there's that
scene where, like, she slaps himand it almost felt intimate,

(42:27):
you know, like no, no, no, likehe even grabs her arm and stuff,
and it's like I think that hehad changed sometime between
then and there but he hadn'tfully believed that the empire
would be capable of actualgenocide.
And I think that because he'sbeen behind the desk and he's
believed in order for so longthat this was like something

(42:50):
inconceivable for him to come upwith.
So I don't think I I kind ofsit in between you guys, like I.
I do think that, yes, he shouldhave figured this out long
before now, but I don't thinkhe's an irredeemable character
and I think that you know, justobviously it's kind of like
padme saying there's still goodin him.

(43:10):
There there was there was stillgood in him.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
There was still good in him even though he was the
worst person in the galaxy forlike 19 years well, I'm I don't
know man like I really do, youknow, I I understand the
sentiment that he should haverealized something.
Maybe he should have paid alittle bit more attention to the
writing on the walls, but I'mdefinitely not sold on him, like

(43:33):
you know.
Yeah, he was, you know he wasin this relationship with dedra,
but she definitely was notsharing anything with him at all
.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
She was not sharing that type of she was not sharing
that level of stuff to him I.
I agree with that, because yeahhe.
He had no idea what the heckthey were doing yeah, exactly
like you know.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Like he he was.
He was in the dark and thenwhen he realized that there were
ships coming down to mineminerals like he, he went as far
as to like choke dedra out tofigure out what it was that they
were doing so like the factthat he went that far and was
like yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'mdone with this.

(44:14):
This woman and he and he likeput physical hands to like
figure out what it was that theywere doing, because he knew
that something terrible washappening.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, okay, come on, like you know that that's I
forgot about part and that justmakes him I actually had blocked
that out.
I'm sorry For me, that'sinexcusable.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Okay, sure.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
I forgot.
That's another reason why Idislike him.
Like that's you, don't?
I mean?
I'm sorry, that's to me, Ican't forgive.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
No, no, I get it, I, I get where you're coming for
that.
That's a fair.
That's like I forgot.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, exactly.
He goes out.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
It's just and I get it.
Look, I also dislike ben solo.
I don't buy ben solo's turn.
I'm sorry you killed han.
There are just some things thatare unforgivable for me and I
and I just thought that one.
See, here's my thing if you'reon the fence about cyril, once
he chokes dead, you're out.
I just feel like that's youknow, and like that was real.

(45:14):
What was haunting about thatwas the fear in her eyes, right,
like it obviously just you know, excellent job by the actor.
But it just really conveyedlike what's crazy is she's in
charge of this crazy operationand he made her helpless in that
moment.

(45:35):
Right because yeah, because he'sbecause he felt small.
He needed to make himself feelbigger and in control, and the
way he went about it is uhthat's.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
That's an interesting I.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
I hadn't considered that point of view there, so
well, my, my question is and youknow, I, I get, I get where
you're coming from, you know,definitely in that moment, but
would it have been bad had hekilled her in that moment
because your boy, and or wasabout to sniper?
So, like she was, she was ondeath row, or or she she was

(46:10):
pretty much it was close todying in that moment anyway,
because the and or was about thesniper.
You know, we, we understand, uh, we, we understand the that's
an.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
That's an interesting moral quandary, actually.
Yeah, I mean actually.
Yeah, I mean, dude, like is it?
Is it okay because the hero didit and it would have been bad
because the the he saved herlife by choking her out?

Speaker 2 (46:31):
it's crazy, he did pull her in.
You know in that moment thatthat was weird.
But I mean, you know he, hedefinitely had that anger, but
she, she would have, you knowshe would have been dead she,
she would have been dead.
But I'm not saying that, likeyou know, he did it to save her.
I'm just saying it right likeyou know what's the difference
between a villain killing herand a hero killing her.

(46:51):
You know?

Speaker 3 (46:52):
well, I mean if you're talking about end result
there, but I mean in terms ofthe character, morality, in
terms of the characters.
He choked out his fianceeessentially a quasi wife because
he realized that he let himselfget deluded into living a lie

(47:13):
with her and felt small, whereasandor was trying to kill
someone who was willfullyhelping the empire to commit
genocide.
So I mean like there's a bigdifference there.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I think if she dies by andor's hands, it's, I think
it's a good thing uh, let meclose that gap a little bit,
maybe because cyril realized thewriting on the wall, you know,
and he wanted to find out whatit was that was going on.
Like you know, I get your gripe, but at the end of the day, you

(47:51):
know, in a morality sense it'sbad right in a day-to-day sense
it is bad, of course, yeah I'llalways say that it's bad.
But the thing is is that,Because you said and you said
yourself that Andor was going tokill somebody that was actively
helping the Empire, Cyril wasconfronting somebody who was

(48:12):
actively helping the Empireincite violence for their own
gain, and he hit thatrealization, he obviously like
that's quick fury right thereBecause, yeah, he might have
felt small in that moment, butthe thing is is that he was sold
on a lie, and when he when herealized that he was sold out on
a lie and that a lot ofinnocent people were about to

(48:33):
get killed, I would be pissedoff too.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
So in that moment he actually breaks with the Empire.
That's the moment where hestops wanting what the Empire
wants, because she tells himthat we're going home heroes,
and then he realizes that's notwhat I want, you know, like,
this is not what I want, and soit's.
It's an interesting.
I see both sides of thisargument and I think that goes

(49:00):
to show just how good thewriting of the show is.
I think all of us will agreethat he's a well-written
character and he is morallycomplex, and the fact that we've
been talking about him now forlike 20 minutes is a good gauge
for that.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Yeah, sorry, but I think In real life I'm very
forgiving when discussingcharacters.
I'm essentially Judge Dredd, Iam Okay and I'm unforgiving.
It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Oh man, I would love to continue this conversation,
but we have more Andor to talkabout.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
We do, we do.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Really quick final thoughts on the Gorman front,
Specifically how they werecapable of showcasing this trap
that they you know.
Eventually, that led to massmass genocide you.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
You know, what was crazy about that was that it
really did.
It gave me even more like worldwar ii vibes, like it was so
well those scenes were so welllike constructed and written,
that like it really blew my mindthat just this, the whole
season, the season as a whole,was amazing.
But like the fact that I waslike, oh my gosh.

(50:10):
Like you get to the second partof the season, you're like, oh
my gosh, it gets even better.
How's that even possible?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
yeah, the moment that you know the they, they stopped
chanting and they startedsinging their national anthem or
their, their, their anthem.
Whatever we are the goal, myheart sank because you know it's
not gonna end well, you knowit's just gonna be the worst
thing ever.
And these poor people who youknow are just, they're just

(50:37):
trying to live.
You know they're trying to bewho they've always been.
We're very quickly snuffed outrich.
What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 3 (50:45):
episode.
I think I said it last time.
You know gripping amazingtelevision, but I don't want to
do this more than I don't want.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Oh, I know, yeah, we I can't.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
I can't watch this week in week out yeah, no, it
just you know, and I watched itlike three times or whatever, as
I normally do, and I found itharder and harder each time, I'd
see, because you knew what wascoming, a little bit I see
somebody's reaction in the crowd.
That was a little different.
It's just I don't know likeit's.
It's really well done and, likeanthony said, yeah, world war

(51:18):
ii vibes.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be alittle bit, possibly more
divisive and say that it'sreflective of a lot of things
I'm seeing around the worldcurrently and maybe that made it
much more chilling, like to thepoint where you know, when
everything was going down inCalifornia and Los Angeles, I
read I'm reading the New YorkTimes in the car and I yell out

(51:41):
does he think this is bleep andgore, like this is not Star Wars
.
We know what's happening, likeyou're not planets away and I'll
leave it at that.
That's a real reaction I hadafter seeing the episode and
it's something that Star Warshas never made me feel, and
kudos to them for doing it.
But, moving forward, I wantsome fun stuff.

(52:04):
You know, I want, like somePadawans, to fall into some
mischief because they, you know.
I want some little kids to geton a ship and accidentally take
off into space.
I want a little bit moresaccharine with my Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Got it.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
All right, let's jump into thenext episode.
We spoke, or, rich, you saidearlier that you didn't think
that the Senate would everentertain you and I, growing up
with the prequels, where theSenate was always just kind of
the boring scenes, I willprobably have some newfound
respect, like going into thosescenes just because I know

(52:40):
what's capable in the Senate atthis point and ultimately, like
I felt like what mothma wasgoing through, you know, like
over the course of this season,you know, as she's trying to,
you know, get people on to hercause, and like she's trying to
like, pull more attention togorman and all that, and people
were just, you know, pushing heraway, whatever, until until you

(53:02):
know this episode where shefinally, like you know, breaks
with decorum and decides to, youknow, tell it like it is.
You know this is genocide.
You know you're all propping upthis monster, palpatine, who's
going to come for you on the end, and she's entirely right to do
so, and she's entirely right ingeneral.
And it's such a good scene.
The tension in the air, theother senators who give up their

(53:26):
time to speak so that she canhave this in is so brilliant.
And yeah, no man, it's so, it'sso good.
I would watch a show of, youknow, mothma in the Senate.
I just feel like it's such astrong maybe not a whole show,
but you know, like if, if thatwas the level of intrigue that

(53:48):
we got from the proceedings inthe star wars senate, I would
love to see more of that.
Like I, watched.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
I've watched c-span.
When I was younger and weirder,I would totally watch like a
c-span s galactic senatehearings.
I mean it's nerdy, but I just Idid like the the seating of the
time.
You know like and in you knowlaw 17 bc.
The precedent was said so that asenior member can see to you

(54:17):
know like, and just a littletiny loopholes that they were
pulling and how that's kind ofstuff and it reminded me of, in
some ways, like thefilibustering that we have, you
know, in the US Senate or in theHouse of Representatives
sometimes when it's like thistotally arcane, like weird thing
, and they're like yeah, by theway, so we're just going to talk

(54:37):
for 27 hours because it's arule there.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
You know that we're allowed to break.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
So I thought that was like that made it even better
for me.
And I actually also liked whenMothma was asking Bael if he
could vouch for his people andhe's like, yeah, of course you
can vouch for them.
And she's like do you know them?
And he's like, no, of course Ican't, I don't know them, I
can't know them.
And I thought that wastop-notch, like I I can vouch

(55:05):
for them as much as I can, but Ihave to protect myself and
there's no way I can actuallyknow that these are people you
can trust which is why luthanwas so important in that moment,
because he realized that, youknow, bale's team was
compromised yeah anthony, whatare your thoughts on this
episode?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
I thought it was really cool.
I I liked mon mothma's speech.
I would also kind of agree thatwe could get, like you know, I
know you said like a wholeseries, but maybe like a limited
series of mon mothma, maybe inthe moment where she kind of I
mean it might have been for awhile but like disillusioned

(55:43):
with whatever the empire wasselling, and her introduction to
luthan, that'd be cool yeah,that would be cool because we
didn't actually see, like howthey were first introduced.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
So that's, that's, that would be pretty neat.
What do we think of theextraction with cassian?
You know, leading up to thatpoint, we have the empire, like
isb, specifically going crazy,trying to like shut her down,
and they finally do shut herdown.
But you know, she, she said whatshe needed to say yeah I love
that so much because that speechgoes basically viral and you

(56:16):
know everyone in the galaxyhears it.
And then you have this race forcassian to get her and her aid
to this meeting point somewhereelse in the galaxy.
And I don't know if you guysknow I might have brought it up
on a previous show.
There's kind of like a secretepisode after this point that
you can watch If you decide tojump onto Star Wars Rebels at

(56:40):
any point.
You can watch Season 3, episode18, secret Cargo, and it's the
follow-up to what happens in theevents of this episode.
So we have mon mothma, who justgave her speech and just got
away from the empire beingshipped over to the rebellion
and the rebels are gearing herup to speak to the disparate

(57:02):
rebel groups and that's thespeech that she gives that like
starts the rebel alliance, likefully, because at this point
they haven't really formed thatunique alliance even though
they're all kind of over thegalaxy.
So this episode with mothmagiving that speech leads pretty
closely into what happens in therebels episode.

(57:26):
Secret cargo, season 3, episode18.
Not as closely as the.
The final episode of andor,season 2, leans into rogue one,
but the connections aredefinitely there and you will
definitely experience more aboutwhat's happening in the galaxy
and how the rebels came togetherif you watch those two episodes
back to back right, right now.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
That's cool, I like.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
I like when they do connections like that yeah and
yeah, let's jump into the, thefinal three episodes, because
they all kind of happened reallyquickly.
Luthan is caught.
Yeah, what do we think of the?

Speaker 2 (58:01):
the daedra and luthan scene as soon as she went in,
like I knew it, I was like, yeah, I mean, but he, he knew it.
He also knew, he knew that thattime was coming and he felt it
in that moment he had noreservations about him surviving
the war.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
He knew that he was in too deep, he had too many
holes in the galaxy, basicallytoo many people that he was
spying on for it not to fallback on him.
Eventually he was kind of liketoo big of a pawn not to topple
and, yeah, we finally get thename drop of a death star.
You know, like lonnie finds outthat this energy program that

(58:40):
the emperor has been running fora couple years isn't actually
an energy program.
He's building a super weapon,and they don't know what the
super weapon is capable of.
They just know it's big and badand he's been working on it for
years.
What did we think of lani'sfinal moments?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
that was kind of crazy, because it really shows
how similar luthen and andor are.
Like they'll, uh, sever someloose ends.
Man and Lonnie was was.
He was a loose end.
I had a feeling that that wasgoing to be his fate.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Rich, what do you think of Lonnie's end?

Speaker 3 (59:14):
yeah, I kind of I kind of always had a feeling
that it wasn't going to end wellfor him.
He tried showing a backbone atsome point, but it was kind of
too late and he was kind of intoo deep.
I don't trust a man with amustache like that to begin with
.
So, as our listeners may notknow, but I am mustache-less.

(59:34):
I refuse to wear to sport amustache as it calls my
character into question.
And I felt the same way aboutLonnie.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
No, but I Hold on, hold on.
We have to also express to theaudience that the other two of
us do have mustaches.
What does that say about ourcharacters, rich, you've got to
expand on that a little bit.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
You guys do have beards.
I do think that means you guysare big Rhydonium hounds like
huge.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Just always huffing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Rhydonium, just all the time.
Rhydonium hounds like huge,just always huffing Rhydonium
just all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Right Rhydonium huffers.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Save the dream.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
I just I don't think I liked Lonnie.
I think I kind of expected thisto happen, right.
I mean, this is kind of whateventually has to happen to
spies, right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
They're going to be burned eventually.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Yeah, you know I mean , and you kind of get into you,
kind of he signed up for itright.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Essentially, I think we wanted him to be to get free.
You know, like, as we'rewatching, you're just like, oh
yeah, he's got a family, he'sgot, you know he's got a wife
and a kid.
And you see that, like youhaven't, you haven't.
You know, like that, likecalmness, like you know, hit him
as he like gets some sense ofrelief in that moment.

(01:00:49):
And then the next we know isyou know he's dead, yeah, and
then, pretty much immediatelyafter that, the dominoes start
falling.
Deidre comes to his officespace and it's such a fantastic
scene, those two charactershaving never interacted before.
Yeah, I love that.
And she asks him like are allof these items legit?

(01:01:10):
Like are these actual things?
And he goes there's only two,two items of questionable
provenance, and he's talkingabout himself and her.
You know, like he's that's whathe's talking about is just like
I'm not really nameduthen Railand you're not really here to.
You know, look at my artifacts.
You know, like it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Bro, when she pulled out that Starpath unit I was
like yeah, it's just like.
I was like man, not thecallback to season one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I would have if I was Luthen and I wanted to play
that off a little bit, a littlemore.
I would have been like vintage.
The empire has only been aroundfor 19 years.
Everything else in this placeis like thousands of years old.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
So Luthen stabs himself with that Nautilin
bleeder, which might not even bereal.
I think that's what got to meat the end of the episode.
I was like is the Nautilinbleeder real?
I need to know.
Well, it made him bleed, allright, but is he noddling?
I don't think so.
What did we think of kleia'sarc in these last episodes?

(01:02:15):
Because she's always been thischaracter in the background that
has shown a little bit moregumption as the show's going on.
What?
What are our thoughts?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
I wish the series was longer.
I don't love exposition dumpsalmost, or the need for
flashback.
I got, like Naruto, ptsd fromflashback episodes.
So I understand that they hadto do it right, because they
obviously started the serieswhile we already have them in a
relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, and we don't understand the relationship, so
they kind of have to explain ita know and I, I get it, I mean
it, it's believable.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
It gives us a reason why luthan left.
Although he definitely doesn't,although he does treat her like
a daughter, he also doesn'ttreat her like a daughter, right
, like I would probably not putmy son in some of the perilous
situations and ask him if he'sready to to set off a bridge and
kill people on naboo.

(01:03:12):
It seemed like that.
I think that was naboo.
It felt like naboo it was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
It was, uh, confirmed to be naboo, I, I, and it makes
sense because palpatine is fromnaboo, so he went into a
terrorist attack in his homeland.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
So I mean that that kleia was his daughter when it
was convenient yeah, when it wasconvenient.
I like that yeah, that was hisline.
Oh yeah, something that we Imean we can, we can, uh, let's.
Let's finish this up here, butsomething that we forgot to
mention was andor had pulledfrom gorman a k2so yes, yeah, so

(01:03:47):
that's.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
That's one of the.
The better things about thislast arc is that the vibes are a
little bit different, and Ithink that's specifically to do
with the fact that everyone'snow on yavin and they now have
another team member.
That adds a lot of levity tothe show.
And and I'm glad that K-2SOwasn't a thing for the entirety
of the series or like themajority of the series, I mean

(01:04:10):
Just because I would have lovedhim.
I would have loved him from thefirst episode, but I like
seeing Andor exist before K-2SO,because now that I know that
with K-22so he almost seems likea more complete person, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Like there was something missing from him.
Yeah, he was definitely missing, something like before k2so and
or was b2emo like he was beingtoo yeah he definitely replaced
b2emo way too quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I'm glad that b2emo got a final happy moment at the
end there, you know he's, he'swith his friends and he's with
bix and yeah, yeah, which hisdaughter and all that that.
That last moment was kind ofcrazy too yeah and I feel like
we're skipping a whole bunch,but we're coming up on like a
minute or an hour and 20 and soI'm just trying to like.

(01:05:05):
All the best scenes are justpiling up in my head right now.
Well, really a lot like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
I mean, we covered a lot of it.
You know, luthan, he stabshimself and kleia pretty much
takes it upon herself to, youknow, kill him while he's in the
hospital because you know shedidn't want him, like there was
no way that she was going to beable to extract them.
And so you know, that'ssomething that he would have

(01:05:30):
wanted, because he didn't wantto be captured.
And so she, she took it uponherself to do that and and or
comes in for one last extraction, which is to get clea out of
coruscant, which initially shedidn't want to yeah, let's talk
a little bit about kleia andyavin and like why she's so
apprehensive to make that tripto yavin.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
What are your thoughts on that?
Like, why was she so almostlike haughty when it comes to
being taken to yavin?
How did you interpret that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
well, I know that that side wasn't too partial
with luthan I guess because hestill kind of had a little bit
of like an extremist like typeof mentality, not as bad as saw,
but he was almost like his own,like little you know, I guess
rebel outfit, that didn't yeah,he was a rebel cell that didn't

(01:06:25):
actually become part of theAlliance.
Right, right, right.
Same thing with Saw and Saw andLuthan, weren't you know they
weren't really buddy-buddies?
There was this, I guess kind ofyou know, I guess respect, but
it was still like you know,you're crazy, you know, like

(01:06:45):
Luthan was like yeah, this guy'scrazy, and like he realized
that rich.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
What are your thoughts on clay's apprehension
to yavin lifestyle?

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I don't think that she is.
That's not her world, that'snot her universe.
Living comfortably in one placewith people and being her real
self without Luthan around, Ithink, is just something that
she just can't.
She's not been her real selfwith anyone but him, and even
then she seemed guarded, in someways right, because the cause

(01:07:21):
was the most important thing.
The cause was the mostimportant thing so.
I don't think that she couldjust now fall into this idea
that there's this whole groupand that she's part of this
group.
They were catalysts.
They're not part of this.
They weren't conformists.
They weren't conformists.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
What I found was interestingwas that everyone kept saying,
like Cassian and Clea bothheavily believed that the rebels
on Yavin wouldn't exist hadLuthan not been who he was.
And it almost makes me wonder,like, where did the money go,

(01:08:04):
when you know they stole it offof aldani?
What happened after?
You know, cassian left yavinearlier in this season and left
those that like crazy rebel cellto die there.
Did he get that message toluthan to say, like hey, this is
actually a pretty good placefor a base?
And you know like, because likethere's a lot of coincidences
and stuff where Luthan's kind ofat the center of everything,

(01:08:27):
like he's an axis, you know like, is he responsible for the
formation of the rebel base onYavin?
I'm curious about that and Idon't think that we have an
answer.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
I like that you brought it here because
something that kind of made methink about how the setup of the
show.
Remember, you know, I wassaying originally that andor was
supposed to be more seasons.
I think they were looking atfive seasons and so maybe that's
what they were like looking toexplore, maybe to expand a

(01:08:58):
little bit more on those likeyear gaps but yeah I guess they
settled for something a littlebit more condensed, which I mean
even with it being condensed,we got something that was really
good.
But I mean exactly and likeanother reason why I'm glad you
say that, another thing that wasnever resolved, that was

(01:09:19):
brought in the first season ofandor, his sister, what happened
there?

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
so I I don't think that was ever going to be
resolved, just based on commentsfrom tony gilroy.
He's basically said that, likethis is just a pipe dream that
andor's always had.
Basically I don't think thoseare his words exactly, but it's
it's that that drive is whatultimately first gets him
involved in everything.

(01:09:45):
Basically Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
But it was kind of like never addressed again,
though it was just likeliterally the first episode.
That was it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
And they actually do show the sister in the final
episode, but it's almost like asymbolic viewing of the sister,
so I don't know.
She may still be out theresomewhere, but I think let's
bring this podcast to a close.
Guys.
Final thoughts rich did.
Why do you hate this show?

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
so much I hate it because it doesn't give me the
warm fuzzies.
I don't get to see ewoksdancing and you there's not
enough using the helmets ofpresumably decapitated
stormtroopers to make beautiful,beautiful music with ghosts.
Yeah, I, I.
You know star wars is notsupposed to make me think the

(01:10:32):
adult things most of the time,right, and I know that obviously
it's made for fantastictelevision.
It's definitely the best starwars tv show that's out there.
You know all respect to obi-wanand I know obi-wan, season two
is going to be even better.
It's going to be even betterthan book of boba fed baby.

(01:10:54):
Uh, it's going to focus on onecharacter maybe, and then I'm
not it already was better thanbook of boba fed.
To be yeah, to be fair I mean,but at the same time I don't,
like I'm I'm not gonna my sonand I aren't gonna watch this,
not yet, right.
It's?
Yeah, it's too adult and it'sthe first for me kind of

(01:11:17):
gatekeepy thing.
Look, there's there's three ofus here, totaling probably
almost 100 years of age.
But Star Wars is for kids,right.
It's that hope and it's thatbeautiful hope in the galaxy.
It's the hope and believing inpeople and that's not what
Andor's about and it's okay andit belongs and it needs to be

(01:11:40):
there, right?
But it doesn't scream Star Warsto me and I think that's what
makes it so good all right, alittle twist there, anthony.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Final thoughts the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
no, no, I actually I agree with rich and I'm gonna be
honest with you.
Like I really do believe thatendor is the best star wars tv
show and that's even with theexistence of the Mandalorian.
Like, I love the Mandalorian,but the Mandalorian is a lot of
fan service.
This is not fan service at all.

(01:12:16):
I mean, I don't know if youknow the amount of people that
I've sung the praises of Andorto and they're like, nah, it's
kind of boring.
I'm like dude, like Did yousing it?

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
did you sing it like we are the goal?
Yes, of?

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
yeah, exactly, you know I was standing on a statue
and everything you know, justwaving a flag, you know?
and but yeah, no, it's.
It is easily my favorite StarWars TV show.
It just blew my mind the waythat it connected so much and,

(01:12:49):
even though that there's stillstuff that was not explained, it
did a lot, man, and I'm proudto say that a show that I never
asked for became a show that I'masking more of, that I want
more of, and that I am going tobe too emo that this is over.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
This is a top five MCU project for me.
I no, it's top tier Star WarsLike, even if you compare it to
the films you've never watched,like hypothetically you've never
watched the original trilogy,prequels, sequels, whatever you
want.
You watch the best of the best,empire strikes back for the

(01:13:31):
first time and then you watch,say, episodes eight and nine of
andor.
Pound for pound, andor is thestronger technically thing.
So I I do believe that thosetwo hours of andor are the
strongest star wars that we'veever received.
Whether it's like star wars,star wars is up for debate and I
do hold the films up to ahigher level just because of you

(01:13:53):
know, like what they representand everything.
But I'm just, you know, like if, if we're taking nostalgia and
we're taking you know the, theyears and production quality
that you know existed at thetimes that they were produced in
, I do think Andor is probablythe strongest thing that we've
ever received and that's good.
More of that, you know itdoesn't have to be you know this

(01:14:17):
maturity level, it doesn't haveto be TVMA, it doesn't have to
be extremely dark or anythinglike that.
But if we can get this qualityof writing in another star wars
project down the line I'd be,I'd be a happy camper and the
the future would look bright forstar wars.
So that's that's how I feel, andif you don't like it, you can

(01:14:39):
go away.
Yeah, no, I really like, Ireally like android guys.
Yeah, thanks so much forlistening to us here for our
125th episode of ProjectGeekology.
My name is Dakota again, andwe're joined as always with
Anthony and Rich, and we had agreat time talking about the
final two episodes of Andor.
There's not going to be anormal episode next week.

(01:15:01):
I'm going to be away, but we'regoing to be picking back up the
following week with somethinghopefully very good to be
determined.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Either is it, you know, keep an eye out for, you
know, maybe an update on ontwitter, or, uh, you know, just
keep an eye out for an episodedrop keep an eye out to the sky,
you might see.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
You might see like a red cape.
We're dropping a vine.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
We'll be dropping a vine on Wednesday at 4.35.
So just tune into Vine.
Do it for the gram guys.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
You guys want to do Superman Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
Yeah, I'm down for that man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Yeah, let's do the new Superman movie that's coming
out.
It should be coming out nextweek.
We will cover it the followingweek.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Superman.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
Superman next week.
We will cover it the followingweek Super Ming, super Ming for
our next episode.
You will believe a man can flyRight on him.
Bye.
Guys, bye.