The Boy and the Heron (2023)

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Have you ever questioned what really happens to your digital library when the internet goes down? We're back with Dakota, Anthony, and Rich in episode 109 of Project Geekology, and we discuss have the murky waters of digital media ownership. Following Dakota's recent house move and Rich's deep dive into The High Republic series, we confront the aftermath of a PlayStation Network outage that threw gamers' ownership rights into question. Join us as we untangle the complexities of digital versus physical media, discussing everything from the conveniences to the pitfalls and how it shapes the way we consume entertainment today.

But that's not all! Grab your cosplay gear and come along as we recount our wild adventures at New York Comic Con and Anime Con. The excitement of meeting voice actors from iconic shows like "Avatar: The Last Airbender" is a tale worth telling. As Marvel steps into the competitive gaming scene, we analyze how their superhero roster could potentially shake up giants like Overwatch, and explore Blizzard's legacy alongside the rising popularity of Final Fantasy 14. It's a whirlwind tour through the world of conventions and gaming, filled with personal stories and industry insights that will keep you on the edge of your seat.

Lastly, we cross the threshold into the imaginative realms of Hayao Miyazaki and Makoto Shinkai, deciphering the personal and historical narratives woven into their films. Miyazaki's latest, "The Boy and the Heron," opens new doors to understanding his wartime influences and storytelling mastery, as we reflect on themes of family and identity. From the surreal artistry of Miyazaki to Shinkai's digital innovations in films like "Your Name," we share our interpretations and the profound impact these stories leave on audiences of all ages. So, sit back, relax, and let us guide you through the enchanting worlds of anime and the ever-evolving cultural landscape of geekdom.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you guys hear that Sounds like parakeets.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Guys, welcome to Project Geekology.
I didn't know how to start thisepisode, but there are
definitely parakeets in thetopic of discussion today, hayao

(00:48):
Miyazaki's latest film, the Boyand the Heron.
Yeah, uh, this will be fun.
This is episode 109.
Thank you, guys for tuning into project ecology.
My name is dakota.
I'm one of your hosts.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I'm joined, as always , with anthony and joining us
for a good little while now is.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Rich, happy to be with you guys.
It's been a little bit.
I'm happy to get the band backtogether today.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, I do apologize that we have been absent.
For the past couple weeks I'vebeen in the process of a big
move.
I've been talking about, youknow, like building a home for
probably a couple months at thispoint and I'm finally in the
place.
It's not 100% finished yet.
I still I'm living out of boxesand still working on, you know,

(01:31):
getting the finishing toucheson some of the rooms in this
place, but I'm really excited.
The move itself is finished.
So I am here and yeah no moreinterruptions.
That as far as I can here, andyeah, no more interruptions as
far as I can tell, but yeah, sowhat have you guys been up to
these past couple weeks?
Rich, I'll start with you.

(01:52):
Let's see.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I kind of took some time to dive into Star Wars, the
High Republic books.
I had kind of a cursory.
I read the first one, the Lightof the Jedi, and I kind of just
stalled out for a while.
So I dove back into.
I can't remember the name of it, I know it's the one before.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Into the Dark, the Rising Storm, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
The Rising Storm so just kind of catching up with
that.
I'm kind of in a weird holdingpattern because there aren't any
games I really am lookingforward to.
Uh, there, there aren't anygames I really I really am
looking forward to.
I did have a mini freak outbecause playstation network went
down for about 20 hours.
Yeah, what was up with that?
And you know, a lot of my gamesare digital.
I, I hate, I, I hate sayingthat out loud, or and none of

(02:38):
the games that I wanted to playin that moment, uh, I hadn't
done the, the licensed, likerenewal that has to allows you
to play the games when you'reoffline.
So I was kind of just stuck, uh, so I started reading and uh,
wow, you know, I almost soundlike one of my students, like
you know everything.
The lights went out, so I guessI had to read, but I, oh, man

(03:00):
that's, that's that's rough

Speaker 3 (03:01):
rich can play his fortnight.
Yeah, you know, I, I kind ofwish that.
I mean, I'm pretty sure thatthey do in some way.
But, like you know what, withthe switch you could have
digital games, but as as long asthat switch is like your main
switch, you can play it onlineor offline, you know, and unless
it's like one of those gamesthat you have to like stream to

(03:24):
the device, or if it's, you know, like a live service game that
is online all the time.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, you could do that, but it makes you, but you
just have to.
There's a you have to go intosettings, then you have to go
into other, and then under thatthere's a box that you have to
check that then allows that tohappen.
So unless you were prepared forthis to happen, right, there's
no reason for you to think,naturally, that it would be an
issue.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, Well, you know what the like my issue is with
the whole like PlayStation thinggoing down for 20 hours or so,
which is essentially an entireday.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It just kind of goes to show how much you really own
the games you buy digitally.
And if anything happens to thenetwork or there is any sort of
hack or the system goes downlike it did, do you really still
own that?
You can't access it, eventhough you have the PlayStation,

(04:21):
you have the controller, youhave the TV, whatever.
Even though you have thePlayStation, you have the
controller, you have the TV,whatever.
I think that's an interestingtopic of discussion because I
think you know like in today'sday and age, where everything is
streamable, where everything isstreamable is it, you know it's
at your fingertips until itisn't, you know like you can
lose Max or Disney Plus orNetflix can lose the rights to a

(04:45):
certain title and you couldjust never see it again.
You know like it's not yours.
So yeah, it's just something Ithink about regularly.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I do well, I mean that, that that is an active
debate though that, um, you knowthe the.
I mean there's a lot of proswith having you know the digital
digital games yeah exactly, youknow, because there's, it's
convenient, it's also you knowyou don't have to deal with the.

(05:16):
You know having too many gamescan be kind of cumbersome.
But also, when you own aphysical game, that game is
yours.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
They can't revoke, they can't take that game away
from you unless they come intoyour house you know, unless you
stole it from gamestop and theyhave proof and the police raid
your apartment, yeah, that's,that's not gonna yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
But, to be honest, a lot of these, a lot of these
places, and it's like hidden intheir, in their terms, they,
they have every right.
It's and it sucks, but they canrevoke your license, the
license status, like you couldbuy the game but if you own it
digitally, they can take it awayif they wanted to they really

(05:58):
could.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, no, I, I I've definitely heard that happening
before ea actually has donesomething where, basically, even
if you bought it digitallyright, if it's an older edition
you cannot.
You have no access to it.
You have to have the disc.
You can't get it at all.
So if you're like, hey, I'drather buy Madden, I'm looking

(06:19):
at 21 right now, I'd rather buyMadden 21.
I bought it for my son becauseI just wanted him to get the
basics of the game down and hedidn't need to get the new
version.
I ended up having to buy it a,you know, a physical version
online, because they do notallow you to pay ten dollars for
the game.
That's three years out of date,which I think is like that's

(06:42):
that's crazy.
It's the most offensive, I think, of all the things, is to erase
the games and make believe theydon't exist anymore, because
you don't want people to save acouple bucks and buy an older
edition yeah, yeah, I hear that,I hear that yeah, yeah, I
wonder.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
That's definitely a debate I wonder if you had
bought madden 21 digitally andlike back in the day, or I?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
had.
No, I had them.
I I actually that's thatexactly happened.
I had, like madden, whatever,so I had a number.
I used to buy madden every year.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Uh, so I, I had and you just can't play them now
because they were digital Idelete, like.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
So I deleted it from my library because I deleted it
from my console, but it'ssupposed to stay in your library
, right, of course?

Speaker 1 (07:25):
yeah go.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I go to my library, nothing.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
EA.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Basically that's crazy, because EA has a separate
uh service on PlayStationNetwork where, let's say, I have
the highest level, so I getlike demos for two hours, right,
and sometimes all I want to dois play Madden for two hours
because I immediately get sickabout how bad the jets are and
then I don't want to play itanymore.
So I, I you know, I wanted todo that, and you actually have

(07:51):
to pay the ea subscription ontop of the top tier playstation
subscription, which is alreadyone crazy 150 a year or
something, and I don't even getto play the two hours I'd have
to pay for ea to do it.
So it's ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
We could I feel like we could make a whole show out
about this, but um we could.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
We could, I mean it was a you know movie streaming
services are doing the samething you know, I know it's,
it's, it's sickening.
It's sickening.
At this point, I think you knoweverybody just needs to go back
to cable.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah it feels like we're heading back that way
because, like all thesestreaming services cannot like
survive on their own anymore,they're losing, you know,
subscribers, like people arelosing interest, and so losing
interest and they're getting tooexpensive a lot of people the,
the, the top tier version ofnetflix, I think, is even more

(08:41):
expensive than Max.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
dude, and Max is like it has, like you know, I mean,
everybody knows HBO for themhaving the prestige TV shows.
So I'm like dude, what is goingon?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
So a lot of these streaming services are like
bundling up with other streamingservices so that they can all
stay afloat and it feels likewe're just going back to cable.
You know, like that it'sexactly.
We're just we're're just goingback to cable, it's exactly.
We're literally just going backin a circle, we're going to
have five booms cable network.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's going to have all the streaming services.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Uh-huh, yep, that's what's next.
You heard it here first, folks.
Anthony, what have you been upto?
I know you have somethinginteresting going on.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Well, a lot of the past couple weeks have been, you
know, gaming, uh, preparing forthis episode, and also I have
my first convention of the year.
I told dakota a little bitabout it before, before
recording.
But yes, this weekend's comingup as of recording, which is
february 12th, I have aconvention I'm going to.

(09:48):
It's called animate miami andI'm pretty excited, dude, I you
know me.
And conventions yeah, I putconventions next to next to uh,
persona and overwatch I love it,uh actually, uh rich.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
you also regularly attend New York Comic Con, is
that correct?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
That's actually I can say this now it's a Laconi
family holiday.
Since Charlie has been bornhe's a December baby, but since
after that year he hasessentially attended Comic Con
every year, except for when itwasn't run.
And we do it as a family.
We dress up together and havematching costumes, and now

(10:32):
they've actually branched outand actually you'll like this,
Anthony.
They go to Anime Con up here inAugust and they actually go
without me now, Like they've gottheir big boy pants on and they
don't even need the vet to leadthem around.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Very cool.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I haven't been.
I don't know.
I did not go to New York ComicCon this past year.
I went the previous year andI've been to most of them in the
past 10 years, but, yeah, thepast couple of years.
It's not been to most of themin the past 10 years, but but
yeah it's, it's been the pastcouple years.
It's not been like a likepriority of mine.

(11:09):
But I want to start likegetting back into that.
I know, anthony you, you camewith me to new york comic-con,
uh, at one point.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
So yes, dude, I would love to we should do, I would
love to go back out there.
Yeah, no, absolutely, and thenand then, uh, so we could bump
into uh, rich and and companyyeah, see, see what costume they
they cook up this year.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Um wait, so you were saying that you are going to
your first convention this year.
What, what convention?

Speaker 3 (11:35):
uh, animate miami okay, and and yeah, and so you
know that that one is like amedium-sized convention, like
it's not huge, but it'sdefinitely not one of the
smaller ones.
I've been to very tiny, like.
I mean budding conventions,like Otaku Fest is one that I go

(11:58):
to and I remember when theywere super tiny.
Now they've gotten a lot bigger.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Super Con, that's the life cycle of like cons as soon
as they become slightly popular.
It was like people recognizethe name.
It just steamrolls andsnowballs out of proportion, but
that's pretty cool.
So what is the theme of AnimateMiami?
What is the focus?

Speaker 3 (12:24):
I would say animation .
There's a lot of voice talentthat are going to be out there
that are from cartoons and anime.
There's going to be a fewAvatar, the last airbender voice
actors there's going to be, thevoice actress for azula is

(12:44):
going to be there, sick the, thecurrent voice actor for iroh,
and the voice actress for toffis going to be there.
That's all trying to think ifthere's any more, but I know
that there's like a lot of othervoice talent that's going to be
there also, and it's just goingto be a good time.
Dude, I always have a good time.

(13:06):
I, I, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I just I love you you gotta, you gotta try to go to
that panel dude, like I'm, I'm I, I am introvert.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
90 of the, except for when I go to conventions.
That's like when I become anextrovert.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'll talk to everybody.
You know it's good.
It's just like whenever, you,whenever.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I'm in my element.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, dude, it's just .
I mean, you know how it is,like when you're in something
and when somebody like peaksyour interest, they bring
something up like you become awhole other person love it that,
um, and then also todayoverwatch dropped some like
really big news.
I mean it's it's big foroverwatch, but they're trying to

(13:47):
.
I think that, like marvelrivals really has them, like
reeling dude, marvel rivals hasreally there's a lot of games
that have tried to replicateoverwatch, but like dude, I mean
, come on, you got the ip ofmarvel yeah, and then, like
marvel, actively swept themunder, like they, they just
pulled the rug right out oftheir you know, from underneath

(14:09):
them and and that that's thething that, like, you know
they're, they're trying to,they're, they're trying to.
you know they were hanging uptheir high with kings and
Blizzard's not used to this.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Blizzard's not used to this.
World of Warcraft was thebiggest MMO for 15 years,
something like that.
They never had a clearsuccessor.
It's just kind of slowlyfizzled into other MMOs and I
don't even think MMOs are thatpopular anymore.
Fizzled into other mmos and Idon't even think mmos are that
popular anymore.
So like there was no huge umlike game that took the audience

(14:42):
away from world of warcraft,this is new, so wow.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
So wow is still like I would say wow is still the top
as far as mmos.
But final fantasy 14 is yeah,no, that's their closest.
That's true, yeah, it is istheir closest, but like I feel
like in a way they almostcoexist.
You know, like they've they're,they're like you know, you've

(15:06):
got your thing right, you've gotours.
They're very different but likewith rivals and with uh rivals
and overwatch they're very, verysimilar and the thing that
marvel has going for them isthat they have a super stacked
ip dude.
They could go as far back asthey want and pull a character
you know from from the well andbe like, oh my gosh, I forgot

(15:29):
that dude existed.
And then you know, just likethey, they have, you know they,
they have, you know the, thecuts that we know, and then they
have super deep cuts.
They, they have so much thatthey could do.
But the thing is, is that one ofthe biggest things that a lot
of and I know that we're talking, you know, just whatever but
one of the biggest things that alot of Overwatch content
creators have been you know, thehigher end ones, and I've been

(15:52):
saying the same thing for awhile is that overwatch has been
focusing too much onoverbalancing the game and it's
taken away a lot of the identityof these characters.
Dude, you can't do that.
The thing about um marvelrivals is that, like it's
clearly like every character hassomething broken about them
yeah but it's not broken to thepoint to where it's unplayable,

(16:14):
it's just a ace up their sleeve.
That kind of thing and thezaniness of it all makes it fun
and that's what overwatch was atone point.
But it's like, you know, atsome point you had, you know
them, you know like they'retrying to balance the game so
much.
And then all these high tierplayers are whining and

(16:34):
whispering in their ear when, atthe point, like it's like, look
, we hear you, you know we'll,we'll fine-tune, but like this
is, this is the character.
Unless the character iscompletely broken and unconf,
you know, and you can't come,you know, fight against it at
all, then, like you know, you'regonna have to just make do and
come up with strats.
You know that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
So hold on.
What exactly did Overwatchannounce?

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Nothing, you got me there.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I thought you were just like blowing smoke.
I was like what?

Speaker 3 (17:06):
It was blowing smoke.
So there's a couple things thatthey're trying to do.
They're adding this whole perksystem now that, um, some other
games have it, but, like now,throughout the through,
throughout the the matches,they're gonna have it to where,

(17:26):
like, your character kind oflike levels up and like so, like
the first level, you get like amini perk that like boosts the
stat and then, like on, likelevel three, you get like a mini
perk that like boosts the statand then, like on like level
three, you get like a major statboost where, like one is the,
I'm gonna say like torbjorn, uh,torbjorn, one of his uh level

(17:48):
three boosts is that he canthrow his turret and it'll stick
to a wall or like a ceiling,and then the other perk makes it
to where he levels up to levelthree, like back in the day when
, when he had missiles shootingout of his thing, oh yeah like
they're bringing that back wait.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
So are the perks in like mid-game or they are over
time throughout the course ofseveral matches?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
I think it's like oh, I, I, they, they didn't explain
.
I don't think they explainedlike where the, the perks are
going to situate as far as that.
But I I'm assuming that it'slike probably throughout the
match, or like maybe you get oneperk the first round and then

(18:32):
you get the next perk, thesecond round, you know okay, it
could be something like thatinteresting so, yeah, they're
trying to like, I guess, kind offreshen up the gameplay.
They're, I like it alsointroducing this game mode
called stadium, which they'retaking a lot of elements from
that pve thing that they wantedto do and they're adding it to

(18:53):
this to where you know there'slike different tiers to the
stadium and like you can add allthese like zany um abilities,
like mercy, giving somebody theability for, like an, an auto
revive if they die you knowwhat's fascinating?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
I overwatch 2 probably has so much scrapped
content and so much scrappedgameplay styles and like story
that they could, you know, fallback on, and I think this is
exactly what is happening, whereyou know, they had all this
planned.
It was probably originallygonna come out at some point for

(19:28):
the game, but they just let itfall to the wayside because they
weren't really making all thatmuch money on the game and they
decided to scrap the story modeand they decided to scrap all
these other modes, whatever andI think you know Rivals is
really it's allowed.
It's given them the kick in thebutt that they need to actually
finish the game that theystarted.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Right.
Well, the very reason for thegame being Overwatch 2 went away
.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, there's no story mode.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
There's no such thing .
It would.
Overwatch 2 doesn't existbecause they never made it in
overwatch 2, they just made anoverwatch 1 expansion with an
expansion.
You know that.
You know that that's exactlywhat happened and that pissed
off a lot of people.
They felt betrayed by that andso, yeah, a lot of this, this,
this stuff isn't things thatthey've been working on for like
the past, like you, you know,year and a half or anything.

(20:20):
This is stuff that they had inthe in, in the pocket and maybe
contemplated it, but I I let metell you, rivals is a huge
motivator for a lot of thisstuff.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
That's awesome you know it is you know that I love
competition like that, thoughthat you know I need competition
so that's.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
But yeah, yeah, you know that that's a a lot of the,
the big stuff that I've beendoing and and kind of looking
into.
What about you, dakota?
I know you've you've beenmoving and stuff that that's
really like I know that's a hugething that you've been going on
in your life, so I don't knowif you've had time for anything
else, yeah, I, I can't think ofthat.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
I'm dude, I'm sure that I've done something of of
note, but I, I can't think of itoff the top of my head.
Um, I guess, before we talkabout the film rich, I didn't
ask what are your thoughts onthe second, uh, high republic
book, the rising storm.
Did you get to finish it, or?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
uh, I'm not done yet.
Well, I don't.
The one thing I don't like is76 chapters is just yeah.
I don't like a high chaptercount, I'd rather I'd rather
have like the lines thatseparate characters, you know,
like pov characters, uh oh,instead of chapter yeah, because

(21:32):
some of it's.
You know, like it's like the,there's the attack.
You know, on whatever there'san attack and then you have
basically different scenes fromthat attack unfolding, but you
know they split it up intochapters.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Uh uh, where?
Where are you in the, the booklike percentage, the fair, just?

Speaker 2 (21:49):
started.
Uh, the fair started and thingshave not gone well uh have the
nihil yeah they've just showedup, so things are like going.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, I I like to.
I I really do love, uh, therising storm.
I know it's not everyone's cupof tea, but it kind of reminds
me of visiting epcot at disneyworld and there's like a
terrorist attack but like you'rethe guy who has to say that,
yeah, um, that's that's how itkind of plays out, because you
know, like you know in you knowin Disney World, epcot has the

(22:18):
World Showcase where there'slike different locationsavilions
from different uh worlds withinthe republic to showcase like

(22:42):
the splendor of the republic.
You know it's like a bigpropaganda thing but whatever.
And and then the nile show upand it's, it's, it's just mayhem
for the rest of the book, it'sliterally war for the rest of
the book it's it's the best.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I love it I I actually the only thing I think
I have a problem with, and thisis just personally, I thing I
think I have a problem with, andthis is just personally, I
think I think I have a.
You know, this happened to mewith game of thrones.
I have a character limit, youknow I have okay, sure a finite
amount of characters that I canimagine without.
Uh, you know, and I and I I knowthis is my own fault, because I
know all I need to do is go tomy high republic, get downloaded

(23:15):
comics, read a couple of issues, get some faces, and then it'll
make everything easier.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
So you know what I actually think the High Republic
comics will not help you asmuch as you think they will,
because they're not covering thesame characters as the ones in
the books.
There are some.
Avar Chris is in there.
You might see elzar manoccasionally, but most of the

(23:42):
characters in the comics aredoing their own thing while the
events of the books okay, thatmakes sense, yeah, no, I think
soI will say this about the high
republic it's massive, it's, butit's probably too epic for what
they were doing.
So there's middle grade books,there's the mainline books,
there's junior novels, there'smanga, there's two different

(24:07):
runs of comic books and severalgraphic novels, and each of
those things are from the firstof the phases.
There's three different phasesof the high republic and they
all follow different characters.
It's, it's massive, it's hugein scope and it's I I will say
that it's epic.
But the biggest failing of itis it's so inaccessible for

(24:28):
people who are trying to likeget, get the full story.
You know, you have to reallydevote a lot of your time and
energy into like mapping thisall out in your head, and I'm a
timeline guy.
I love that stuff.
It's too much for me.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
I will say it's too much for me.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I appreciate what they did, but yeah, what I will
say download the audiobooks.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
They're fantastic.
All Star Wars audiobooks arelike not Produ.
Star wars audiobooks um arelike not productions they're
productions yeah, it's there'slike music, there's sound
effects um the.
The narrators are alwaysfantastic in terms of like
differentiating all thecharacters and stuff.
I I highly recommend the highrepublic, especially on on

(25:14):
audiobook.
It's just, it's fantastic, butyeah all right.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
It's literally like how I've gone through.
I mean, I haven't gone throughall of them, but like the ones
that I have read have been.
I think every Star Wars bookthat I have read has been on
audiobook and they're all justlike they have, like the
lightsaber sounds, blasters,music, dude, it's ambiance,
everything.
It's amazing they put in a lotinto those audiobooks.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I think you've swayed me, because the last time that
I listened to an audiobook I'llput it this way it was on my
click wheel iPod.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Oh, it's been a bit.
Yeah, 15 years Jeez.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
So maybe I'll give it a go with these new fangled
devices.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
And what's great about the, the audio books that
you'll download nowadays, isthat they're not they're not
abridged.
Most, most audio books back inthose days were like made for
CDs, so they were abridged intotwo to four hour chunks where
now you'll get you'll, you'llget the full book this time.
And the star wars books are arekind of just like built to be
listened to.

(26:19):
It's.
It's really cool.
I know you don't have a longcommute, but something to you
know, play with, but uh, allright, guys, we're almost 30
minutes into this discussion.
We haven't even talked.
Talked about uh miyazaki or theboy catching up.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Man, it's been two I know it's.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
It's been a while, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Two weeks abridged it's actually.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
It's actually.
This is our.
It's been three weeks since wespoke.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
We we missed two weeks yes, we missed two weeks
on release, but yeah, it's been.
Yeah, three weeks since werecorded.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
And but, yes, the boy in the heron, yeah, all right
so for those of you who arelistening who have not either
watched the Boy and the Heron orknow who Hayao Miyazaki is.
Brief rundown he is probablythe greatest name in anime
filmmaking period, like fullstop.
I don't think there is reallyany debate as to who the

(27:13):
greatest animator or director interms of anime there is, you
know.
Like you know, there are othergreat uh directors out there,
the.
There's another studio ghiblico-founder, named isao takahata,
who has made some fantasticfilms, but none have really
struck the popular subconsciousquite like hayal miyazaki's work

(27:35):
.
Yeah, so this is an interestingmovie because one, one of our
podcast hosts has never seen aHayao Miyazaki film and two,
it's easily like bar none, hismost inaccessible entry point.
So I'm really, really excitedto hear, uh, what we, what we

(27:59):
thought about it.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Um, but you know other other, you know are you
calling me out for not watchingmiyazaki man?
Like, what is what is up with?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
that.
No, I'm talking about rich here.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
I'm talking about the guy laughing in the corner back
there um, yeah, we, I meanwe've covered two of his movies
already.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, so, if you guys , if you, guys have not like
gone back in our catalog, we'vedone.
Uh, what did we do?
We did princess mononoke, right?
and castle in the sky yes,princess mononoke was my
previous favorite of his movies,like it's like.
At some point in my lifetimethat was like the movie that
just like blew my mind when Iwas a kid, and the Castle in the

(28:37):
Sky was never that movie for me, but it's still a fantastic
film and it's just such a joy torevisit whenever we do.
So this is an interesting onebecause I watched it in theaters
and you watched it in theaters,anthony, and we planned to do a
show the following week afterthat had come out.

(28:58):
But we both kind of realizedlike I don't know what to say
about this movie, you know, andwe were just like maybe we
should do something more likeeasy to digest or whatever.
But now that we have a thirdparty on and we're able to
revisit the film at our leisureit's streaming on Max currently
you, you, you know faithfullisteners are are now privileged

(29:19):
to hear our discussion of theboy and the heron, the latest
film of hayama yuzaki a year inthe making a year in the making,
before we, before we touch onrich.
No, actually, you know, let'stalk, let's, let's, let's head
straight to rich, let's what areyour thoughts in the pool?
Yeah, we're gonna throw you inthe deep end what are your

(29:40):
thoughts going into this movie,like prior to having seen it,
and what are your thoughts afterhaving seen it?
I don't know if you'vere-watched it at all or if it's
just oh yeah.
No, I had to re-watch it.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
All right, okay.
So I mean, like just over goinginto it, I had no background,
none whatsoever.
I had no idea.
I I hate to say it I heard youguys just say his name and I
still think that if you held agun to my head and you gave me
four choices, I would probablystill get it wrong.
Uh, that's fine.

(30:12):
So I had nothing, no previousknowledge going into it, nothing
like I had seen posters orimages of the movies.
You know, like, uh, totoro,right, I, I had seen that stuff
somewhere.
You know it's somewhere in mymind, but I had nothing going
into it.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
So I mean if you've been to new york comic-con at
all yeah, I've seen that imageryin past.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, you, you have to have seen.
You know at least, totoro he'sprobably seen totoro.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
There's usually a no face walking around spirited
away you'll have probably seenimagery from howl's moving
castle, you know yeah but butyeah, all right, go on, go on so
I had no idea what I'm gettinginto, uh, and you know I had
been planning to watch it withmy family and, uh, I'm kind of a
jerk, so I I knew I was gonnawant to watch it more than once,

(31:04):
so I started watching it.
I mean, it was 25 minutes inand my wife comes down and she's
aghast that I would be such atraitorous person, uh.
But I looked at her and she'slike you're watching it without
us and I said I can only tellyou what I've seen so far, but
I'm gonna have to watch thisnumerous times before I sit down

(31:24):
and talk about it, I don't even, and that's before it gets
crazy, that's before it getscrazy I'm trying to think.
I'm trying to think of like amovie you know I would think I'm
trying to think of a trilogymovie or something, but like the
least inviting entry point,right, it's like I don't know,

(31:44):
just watching randomly attack ofthe clones, but that I don't
even think that's that bad.
Like I'm trying to think ofwhat movie you would have to
like sit down and go like youwould know nothing and just be
like super confused because soalso it would have to be like a
finale of a tv series.
Yeah, I know, and it's my own, II have to admit this openly,
right like I don't watch a lotof anime.

(32:06):
What I see is, you know, I'veseen naruto.
I remember watching dragon ballz, uh, you know things like
that.
So you know my son's watchingsome like kind of more, uh, I
would say, less mainstream onesas well, uh, maybe they're not,
I don't know black cloud orsomething, and a couple of other
things that he really enjoysblack clover, black clover, yeah

(32:27):
, yeah, see, see, I can'tremember the names, all right.
So I have.
I had a very specific idea ofwhat anime meant as I went into
this movie, you know, and that'swhat I kind of expected, and I
was like, whoa, this is not thatat all.
You know, like it has somesimilarities, but that opening

(32:47):
sequence or not the opening, butuh, yeah, when he's running
through the flames, I had neverseen any kind of artwork like
that.
I had never heard the, the wayhe was playing.
He was muffling the sound.
You know I was.
It took me.
It sounds so lame.
It took me like a sensoryoverload where I was noticing

(33:11):
things and it was playing withthe medium that I was engaging
with in a way that I don't think.
Anything else I I've done before, you know, watched before has.
So it was gripping andinteresting but perplexing and
at times made me feel stupid,like there were times where I

(33:33):
was like I don't know what ishappening.
You know, I always like toestablish the reality of the
fantasy world, right.
Like is it?
It's like when I teach mcbeth Isay, guys, bank will show the
witches.
So now we all have to acceptthat they're real, because two
people saw I just won, right,and I was trying to kind of get
the foothold in.

(33:54):
Like is this an imagination forhim?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Oh wait, no, it's a shared imagination.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, it was just yeah.
And then I don't know if I wantto like.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Did Alice really fall down thatrabbit hole, did she?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
There's no one to back that up, but in this case,
there one to like back that up.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
but you know, in this case there are individuals to
back that up you know, like youusually have, like even the
little, you know the little kindof trope of like oh, here's the
one relic you know, type ofthing.
Uh, that has you have going ona lot of other stories that are
like this, but you didn't evenreally have that.
I mean, he does at the end, andyou do have the the little bit

(34:37):
of a trope where at the end he'stold like, oh, you're well,
you'll forget that in time kindof thing.
The narnia, you know like yourkids will grow up yeah, uh, one
thing that I'm kind of I'm notsure if I'm upset with you guys
or I appreciate, so I didn'tlook at the movie, I didn't look
at uh casting I nothing,nothing, I have no idea going in
, okay, and I was actually angrywith myself when I finished the

(35:02):
movie and I go dave batista,willem defoe, yeah uh, robert
pattinson.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
And then I saw bale dude, it was a stack cast, I
like pattinson pattinson, andthen I go and I'm like, wait,
I'm like Pattinson, pattinson.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
And then I go and I'm like, oh well, willem Dafoe is
obviously the heron right.
And it's like, nope, that wasPatterson.
What, my mind exploded.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
It sounds like Willem Dafoe, like he did like a
really good and I was like waita second.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Huh, why did Will Defoe just go?
He would have been like so whyam I here?

Speaker 3 (35:40):
And that's very much so the type of character he
would play.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Something creepy like that.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I too, find myself to be something of a director.
He just takes over doing that.
It was so mind-blowing and Ididn't know that this guy had
this start again.
I had no idea so I couldn'teven.
I didn't even think I've knowndavid batista's voice since I
was a wee lad.
Going to wwe events makingsigns, you know, like flying

(36:08):
halfway across the country tosit in the last row to see
batista in the main event andnot in recognizing him.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
See, to me his voice is the most recognizable I
should have.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
It's really upsetting to me, like, so, like I think
it's because, like, literally, Ifelt like I was in a different,
like I was so turned aroundright by everything that was
going on in the movie and tryingto kind of pin it down.
I mean, because by the time heshows up, I mean what I'm like
King of the Parake, what'shappening here, right?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
right.
So I just I want to touch onone thing that you mentioned
early on in the film,specifically about the art style
when he's running to thehospital Whoa, it's beautiful,
it's crazy and it's a sensoryoverload, and I think that
that's exactly what you know istrying to be portrayed.
So a number of things arereally interesting that you can

(37:05):
kind of trace across Miyazaki'sfilmography when he has a
deep-seated need to express whohe is and what made him who he
is to his audience.
He's done that visual of, youknow cities on fire before.

(37:29):
He's done that visual of like,or he's done like a number of
films with like mothers in sickbeds.
He's done a number of filmswhere the father is creating you
know wartime, uh, likecomponents and stuff like that.
And this is all because helived through that.
His mother was sick in ahospital for most of his

(37:51):
childhood.
So when you watch stuff like myneighbor totoro and the mother
is sick throughout that entiremovie, that's a, you know, an
extension of you know his ownlife.
You know when, when he, whenyou see the, the city being
bombed and uh, the, the streetsburning in hayau, uh, in how's

(38:13):
moving castle, or, or this film,uh, the boy in the heron.
It's an extension of, like, theair raids that he experienced
living in Japan during World WarII.
His father owned a factorycalled Miyazaki Parts or

(38:35):
something like that, where theymade key components for some of
the airships that the Japaneseused, key components for, uh,
some of the airships that theythat the japanese used.
And, um, you know, he, hededicated an entire film to that
, um, which was the wind rises,you know like, and and that that
whole movie is basically likehim regretting, uh, you know

(38:57):
like, the path that that japanwent down during that time in
history, so kind of all of thatkind of coalesced right there at
the beginning of this movie andI felt like that was like, like
I feel bad for him because it'ssomething that he can't shake,
something that he can't like getout of his system.
He needs to keep making stuffto express that emotion so that

(39:20):
the audience can feel it.
You know, and I I think thewhole film is kind of like that.
If you, I, I I've studiedmiyazaki's work like a lot, I
I've made several videos aboutit, so I, I really this is a
tough film for me to likediscuss because I don't fully

(39:41):
understand it, but I I canunderstand parts of it or I can
under, I can interpret the artas best as I can.
You know, especially near theend there's a couple like themes
and stuff that like play around, that he plays around with um,
like a successor to, you know,creation, um or um which was uh
mark hamill yeah, yeah, so the,the, the great grand uncle was

(40:04):
mark hamill yeahso it's stuff like that, like
there's a whole bunch of likethemes and little ideas that he
sprinkles into the, the mix inthis movie that you can kind of
like piece apart and like kindof push into his life or his
mindset as a creator and try tolike understand what he's trying
to say.
But but yeah, if you don't knowmiyazaki or have never

(40:29):
experienced any of his otherworks, I wonder if you can get
any of anything out of it at all, like I, and that's that's,
that's why we have a guinea pigon the podcast rich is
definitely the guinea pig Ididn't look this up, you know I
I figured I would just wait toask you guys, right?

Speaker 2 (40:49):
so his new mom is his mom's sister.
Yes, is this a common practice?
Because I, you know, timeperiod wise, I'm putting us in
world war ii yeah, it's, it's,oh yeah, yeah, it's 100 world
war ii, right so?
That's the end of the warthey're talking about.

(41:10):
So then, to me it's.
I mean, I don't again, this ismy lack of knowledge, right, but
is that?
Is that a but?
Have that been a like?
There was that a commonpractice?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
were they romantic?
I don't know.
I I I can't say whether that iscommon or uncommon.
I think in the film it plays onthe idea that this is not
normal for for him, for for theboy, basically, like I, I feel
like he really can't get intothe idea of this being his

(41:43):
mother until he has to save her,basically near the end of the
film, you know, that's.
That's when he first mother ormom whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
There's always like that.
There's always a struggle whenit comes to there being a step
parent.
But, like I can imagine beingeven more conflicted when that's
your aunt, I can imagine beingeven more conflicted when that's
your aunt.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
And it also like it kind of it's a weird dynamic,
because the mother and sisterclearly weren't very close,
because the main character hadonly supposedly met the aunt
once, like when he was a baby.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Prior to him, prior to her essentially being her,
you know, full on mother, youknow, and by that time his
father had already sired, youknow, another child with this
other woman, you know.
So we don't really know thetimeline as far as, like you
know, was he having an affairwhile the mother was in the
hospital?
The, the mother was in thehospital, the real mother was in

(42:42):
the hospital, or if this was,you know, like in that year gap
after the mom died in the fire,and you know, so on, yeah, I
don't know but I I I think we'reled to the the assumption that
this is not a normal thing.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Go ahead, anthony yeah, yeah, it didn't I.
I picked up on that too.
Uh, I also liked that youbrought up Miyazaki's like his
like family past, about hisfather having a factory that
created components for aircraft.
Well, that was the instance inthis film.

(43:15):
That's what.
That's what the maincharacter's father was in this
film.
Yeah, totally, he owned afactory.
He owned you could.
He owned, you could see.
You could see the, the domesfor the cockpits and stuff, and
so I always thought that wasinteresting.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
But yeah, which is a really cool visual too.
You know, like them, themputting like these new, um, like
state-of-the-art, like cockpitdomes into this.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
You know, ancient japanese home, you know, I just
think it's such a cool visualyeah, yeah, but yeah rich that
this will be like a commonelement that you'll see
throughout his films, like ifyou watch more of his films.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Is that world war ii had a huge impact on him, huge,
yeah, so he, he was a boy duringworld war ii and um, you know,
like, speaking about, like theair raids that, uh, you know,
went through basically everycity throughout all of japan
except for, I think, kyoto, hesaid that you know, he remembers

(44:14):
the air raids, he, he can, hecan still see his street burning
.
You know, like that's somethinglike as a kid, that was just
like I, I think it, you know,torments him inside.
You know, like, I, I think thatvisual and what was interesting
about like that particularscene in the beginning where
he's running through the fire, Ican imagine, you know, during

(44:35):
wartime, where you're, you'rejust doing something and it just
becomes a dream state.
You're not actively seeingwhat's around you, everything's
a blur, everything is muffled.
You're just doing something andit just becomes a dream state.
You're not actively seeingwhat's around you, everything's
a blur, everything is muffled,you're not actively, you know,
experiencing any one thing, buteverything all at once.
And I think that's what he wastrying to visualize and I think
it was so cool, I don't know itreminded me it's not.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
It doesn't, it's not even visually the same, but just
reminded me of the whendaenerys is attacking king's
landing and game of thrones andjust kind of the outright
devastation of the fire, youknow, because I don't know.
Yeah, I think I'm not sure ifthis is, I have, uh, you know,
I've always enjoyed a nice fire.

(45:18):
You know, like I, I, I don'tknow, I grew up in queens I like
a nice fire I I grew up inqueens and like as a as a as a
queen city boy, like the idea ofyou know, like a campfire was
always like cool.
I never, I never went camping.
I wasn't a boy scout, so youknow, during pandemic, like
getting the solo stove was likesuper awesome.

(45:38):
You know, like I've always kindof liked it in that way.
But there's also the theabsolutely horrific, scary, uh
quick, moving, uh nature of offire and destructive force that
could just leave everything justtorn asunder in its wake that I
think that scene captured sowell yeah, absolutely yeah,

(45:59):
that's a good way to put it andthat also reminds me of his
movie Howl's Moving Castle.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
There's a literal character that's literally a
hearth fire and it's such afragile thing, but it can become
extremely dangerous.
If it goes out, then the fire'sdead.
If left unattended, it could bea huge issue.
You know, like it's, it's areally it's a fascinating
concept.
But yeah, um, anthony, what areyour, what are your thoughts on

(46:27):
the movie overall?

Speaker 3 (46:29):
it it.
It definitely is an interestingfilm and it is fair to say that
it is not one of his moreaccessible ones.
There are, the one he has, onesthat are very much so easier to
like watch for, like youngerkids, like, uh, my neighbor, my
neighbor, totoro, or ponio yeah,ponio or kiki's delivery

(46:54):
service, but this one is.
It's.
It's definitely a tough one,and I don't mean that in a way
that it's a bad movie, but it'stough because there is a lot
going on and I feel like there'saspects of this movie that only
mizaki understands.

(47:14):
I don't think that you couldfully understand everything.
I feel like you could maybe getclose to understanding, and I'm
pretty sure that there's peoplewho could analyze this and
really like pick out a lot.
But even then, at the end ofthe day, I feel like miyazaki
has like the true idea of likewhat he was trying to put.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Maybe you know sometime yeah, maybe he was like
grasp of, like what, what theactual intent of the message is?
Um, there there's, there'squite a lot of really
fascinating ideas.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Um, and right, because he goes to like the
upside down.
But instead of it being adecrepit place, it's like a
whole other world, you know yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's,
there's, there's a whole lotgoing on.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
There's certain themes that, like I found really
engaging, but I, I, you know, I, I also don't think I fully
understand so yeah, so the thegreat grand uncle is something
that I I spent a lot of timetrying to understand and I think
, in some ways, the maincharacter, uh, the boy and the

(48:25):
grand uncle are both miyazaki,you know, in different respects.
You know, I think he seeshimself in both characters and
you know miyazaki is quite old,you know, like he's, I think
he's early, he's at least late70s, early 80s.
You know like he's, he's at theend of his career, um, as a, as

(48:49):
an animator but yeah, we'll see.
Well, yeah, we'll see, he alsosaid that he wants to make
another movie, so we'll see howthat goes, but home's like crazy
.
What I find interesting is that, like the grand uncle, is eager
to find a successor to keep thecreativity alive, and I think

(49:12):
that is basically like the realworld conundrum that Miyazaki
has, you know, like he's createdthese worlds.
He's created these fictionalrealities.
You know, a lot of this feelsvery akin to some of the like
the weirder spots in Totoro orSpirited Away or Princess

(49:33):
Mononoke, you know, like it allkind of has that feel.
But with this particular ending, he, you know, has a character
who's been doing this for a verylong time.
He's been doing this as long ashe can remember and he's
waiting for someone to pick upthe torch where he can no longer
take it.
Basically, and I think by theend of it, the message that I

(49:57):
took is that Miyazaki is goingto die one day, hayao Miyazaki
is going to die one day.
Hayao Miyazaki is going to dieone day.
There will be no clearsuccessor, because everyone has
their own way of doing things.
You can't expect someone tocreate stuff like him, moving
forward, like Studio Ghibli, thestudio that he co-created with

(50:22):
the other director, isaoTakahata.
Each director had differentstyles, but it kind of shifted
into Miyazaki's thing whenTakahata died a couple decades
ago.
And yeah, there's really noother studio making movies quite
like this and I think that thethe intent here is basically to

(50:43):
to tell people that, you know,good things come to an end, you
know, and that's kind of morbid,it's kind of messed up, but
it's also like a beautiful thingbecause, like he created so
many fantastic works throughouthis career and, yeah, I'm sorry,
rich, this is an extremelyintrospective and, you know,
metatextual discussion ofMiyazaki's like career and like

(51:06):
motives in this movie.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Well, that helps me.
Honestly, it makes me feelbetter because, you know, I
literally like one of thereasons why I said I felt like I
was watching a second movie ina trilogy was I usually am able
to kind of, you know, figure outthe plot.
You know, like I teach English,like you know it's kind of pick
up something, yeah, figure outthe plot.
You know, like I'm like I teachenglish, like you know it's,
it's kind of my job and therewas a lot going on, you know

(51:29):
where.
I mean we, you know, as Iwatched it, like my family, we
were all at different pointslike what's what's going on, and
then we just kind of I think wejust stopped asking what's
going on and we just enjoyed theroller coaster ride yeah you
know that, that, that I feellike that's the case with a lot
of mood or a lot of anime,especially miyazaki movies.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
You know, like you just have to go for the ride.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
There's a certain yeah there's a certain logic
that you have to throw out ofthe window and just experience
the artistry and the storyunfold as it does.
As far as the story goes withthis movie, it's a lot more
difficult to follow than evensome of the more weird films
like Spirited Away.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
It's interesting, right right, and like this, one
has like some kind of timebending mechanics to it also,
where you know the maincharacter.
He meets his mother when she'syounger and she's from this,
from this place too, and youknow when they, you know towards

(52:36):
the end, you know they, they goback to their real worlds.
You know, I'm I'm thinking thateach of those doors are
different points in time yeahand you know, the mother has to
go into this time to become themother of um makoto, no mahi to
mahi, mahi, to yeah, good onerich, because I forgot it too uh

(52:58):
, there's just so much uh goingon.
But, yeah, there's.
I do like what you said aboutmaihito and the grand uncle
being the same person, because Icould totally see that you know
it.
It's like it was almost likemizaki.
Yeah, mizaki's like lookingback on his life and, like you

(53:23):
said, they're not being a clearsuccessor.
But yeah, if there was going tobe a last film, I feel like
this would have been the perfectone to top it off.
But he can't help himself.
We're on the 11th last film ofhis life, film of his life and

(53:44):
yeah, I just I live.
I don't think he's gonna stopmaking movies until he dies.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
I think this is either 11 or 12 of his like
movies.
How many films?
13.
For some reason is it 13?

Speaker 3 (53:58):
miyazaki made uh 12 feature films oh, just missed it
yeah, so this is like, becausehe said it a while back, I think
that like it's been at least atleast two to three films since
he said that he's not doing itanymore yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
So that's that's like something that like.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's a running joke.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
I don't know if it's a running joke, but like he goes
into retirement he gets allcrotchety.
He's just like I'm too old tomake something anymore.
I don't have the stamina.
And then he's just like youknow what, I have something to
say.
And then he makes a movie andit takes him years.
You know, like this is allhand-drawn.
You don't have hand-drawnanimation anymore.

(54:42):
Even some of the newer animethat comes out is mostly made on
computers.
Yeah, it's digital art LikeMakoto Shinkai.
Before the show, you werementioning Suzume to me, which
is another film by.
It's a fantastic film.
We covered it actually a couplemonths back.
You and I, anthony Suzume andthat director, makoto Shinkai,

(55:07):
kind of pioneered a newtechnique where it's mostly done
in Photoshop.
You know, like he puts digitaldrawings into Photoshop and just
continues to make layers andlayers and layers.
And it's a really cool technique.
But you know, miyazaki is likepart of a dying breed where
hand-drawn animation isn't athing anymore.
Disney doesn't do it.

(55:27):
Um, you know, you really onlyhave to go to like cartoons,
like on tv, for that.
You know, like that's reallythe only real hand-drawn stuff
that we see in in mainstreammedia at this point.
But yeah, it's, it's cool man,I love this guy.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
You bring up Suzume.
As I was prepping for theepisode, I asked my 10-year-old
son what he thought, because Ithought he would have a more
discerning eye, he'd have alittle bit more to say.
And I mean, god bless him.
He's like, well, you know, itreally reminded me of Suzume and
the way the ending and thedoors and the different kind of

(56:03):
realities.
And I'm just sitting there likein awe, right, because my son
made he, I think, made much moremeaning of that movie than I
did on the first go through.
And I think it's because hedoes, he's more, I think,
accustomed to just giving up andgoing into the and just falling

(56:25):
down kind of that, the rabbithole and enjoying the artistry
where I, you know, it's likeit's like if a movie is a
sandbox game, I try to go to theedge.
I'm like, okay, is that?
Is that the border?
Like where's the border?
I try to find out the rulesfirst before I I I kind of dive
in, you know.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
So this movie is the edge, yeah, but, but like you
know, kind of in a way that thatwe say that world war two and a
lot of life events influences alot of the Miyazaki films.
It's the same thing with Makoto.
Shinkai Suzume was definitely apiece on the 2011 earthquake

(57:07):
and tsunami.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Yeah, so like I mean he kind of takes and to be
honest, I think that you know.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Going further than that, you can say the exact same
thing about his other filmsyour Name and Weathering with
you.
They both have natural disastertype things that affect the
major part of the plot.
Um, yeah, rich.
If you uh want to watch a great, great, absolutely top tier
anime movie that you will 100get by the end of the movie, um,

(57:40):
I highly recommend your name byby makoto shinkai.
No, it's, I'm serious, you'llget it, no you're right.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
I just I love how, like you're, just like you, will
100 know what's going on by theend, because I mean it's funny
how you leave this movie, uh,the boy in the heron still
trying to figure out what justhappened oh yeah, dude, there's.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
There's so much symbolism in boy in the heron,
and I can go on for days, likewhat I think everything means.
Like I think the, the king ofthe parakeets is, is kind of
like being uh cynical aboutworld leaders and like how they
try to fix things.
And you know, like you, you,you see, at the end the, the
parakeet king, you know, try tolike make a bunch of blocks sit

(58:26):
upright, and he's just like whyare you giving?
Uh, you know, why are we doingthis?
Or why are we letting thisrandom dude do it?
Why can't I just do it?
And then it all falls to piecesand it kind of reminds me of
like how, you know, humans can'treally run things in the well,
I should say humans can't runthings well, and everything they

(58:47):
touch kind of just false pieces, and especially when there's
corruption, and there's clearcorruption with the parakeet guy
.
And you know, prior to that,the grand uncle said something
along the lines of like you know, these stones haven't been
touched by evil yet or malice,and as soon as they were touched
by malice, everything fallsapart so it's, it's a really

(59:08):
there's so many layers to thisthat like you could get into and
like actually dissect.
But I think I'm gonna end myparticular uh like thoughts on
this with a quote from davidlynch I just pulled up.
He goes I don't know why peopleexpect art to make sense.
They accept the fact that lifedoesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
You know, and it's, it's like it's a really good
point because, like a his filmsdon't make sense and I like how
you like circled back to davidlynch, because you literally
made that, um, that comparisonto what we're talking about
recording this movie yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
What's great about david lynch is that like the way
that he creates movies.
He's like I've read his bookand the way he creates movies is
he writes down um on likepost-it notes or um, not post-it
notes, but like uh little, likejust index cards, index cards,
yeah, um.
He writes down like 90different random scenes that

(01:00:08):
have nothing to do with oneanother and just pulls it all
together and that's his movie.
Like he, literally he dude islike he was an actual crazy man.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Like it was either humanity, the movie it was
either.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
It was either he was, you know, a homeless man on the
streets or the one of thegreatest directors of all time,
like there was no in between forhim um.
He was both he was.
I don't think he was homelessbut, yeah, um but that's.
That's kind of the vibe that Iget with this movie.
Is that like it's just scenesthat happen, it's it's thoughts
that you know come forth andit's almost it follows dream

(01:00:43):
logic, you know like yeah,there's a couple threads that
like kind of weave throughoutthe entire thing, but for the
most part you're jumping intosections of dreams and it's
almost dream state like whereyou know like, oh man, you gotta
you, you gotta run away fromall of these birds.

(01:01:03):
And then you know you're on aship with floating blobs of baby
, future baby.
I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Future babies, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
And then you're back to running from birds who want
to eat you now.
So it's very dreamlike, youknow, and I think that's what
miyazaki's going for and it kindof reminds me like have you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
I mean, I'm pretty sure that, like everybody has
had this I know that people withadd like know exactly what I'm
about to say.
But, like, sometimes you haverandom thoughts and sometimes
those thoughts don't connect andyou're like how did this
thought get from this thought,you know?

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
and it's almost like what this movie is the worst
thing, random thoughts or adhdis like you know you, you like,
you're going to look forsomething.
You go to another room and youstart doing something else.
And you just, what did I?
What did I come here for?
What am I looking for?
And there's a um rich does doesyour, does your son have a cell
phone?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
uh, no, he has not yet okay, he has a uh ipad.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Okay, but you can't text him right now and ask him
if he's seen your name no, uh,no, I'll have to.
I think he's probably oh, it'sprobably like yeah, he's
probably a bed, but actually hedoes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I didn't set it up so he does.
I can text him.
Uh, so we, amazingly, will texteach other in the house, but he
actually can text me If he'shome.
He can text me when I'm at work.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Okay, I'm using iMessage, all right.
Yeah, I'm really curious ifhe's seen your Name and if he
hasn't, it's a really good filmthat you guys should check out.
It's awesome.
Yeah he's gonna be excited.
It's no, no, it did, whendakota said says that, like it's
really good, like it's it's atop five.
Even I was just not, not justanime, it's a top five film for
me.
Like it's, it's it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
I even I was like blown away, like I was super
excited and especially when wecovered it, it was.
It has you like on the edge ofyour seat, like you're super
excited about like what'shappening.
You're like you know, like, ohmy gosh, like you, you, there's
jaw dropping moments.
It's really, it's a really goodmovie that, yeah, like you said

(01:03:12):
, like it's, it's a top tiermovie.
Yeah, it's, it's, you know, ananime film, but check so many
boxes off to like make it, youknow, a top tier.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Just whether it's anime or live action, like just
it's amazing.
Okay, yeah, I just just rank it.
Is it better or equal to littlegiants?
Because I, I love little giants.
So like, if you guys say it's a, I as Little Giants.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
For you, I will say equal.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Oh, all right, Listen , I'm excited because, boy, do I
love that Annexation of PuertoRico.
Baby, here we come.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
All right.
Yeah, guys, what are wecovering next week?
I literally have no idea.
We have not discussed this atall off the pod.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
We have not.
I mean, we've been so focusedon.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Oh, Anthony, you started watching Dragon Prince.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Yes, I need to continue.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Would you be interested in covering the first
season of Dragon Prince?
It's short enough where wedon't have to break it up into
two episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Okay, yeah, we could do that.
All right, rich you cool withthat?

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah.
So, the Dragon Prince is anetflix animated series.
It's uh american animation andit's more uh computer animated
than hand-drawn or anything likethat, but it has that 2d aspect
to it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, oh, what did I forget to you?
Know what really made me angryabout the movie?
I mean, we don't know, you cancut this out, no go ahead, yeah
go ahead.
Okay, I must listen, man like,why are the subtitles not the
same as what they say?
Oh, I'll tell you, I'll tellyou why.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
I know exactly why.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
It's because the subtitles are direct
translations of the japanese,whereas uh, the, the, you know,
the actual um dub over inenglish is tailored to, you know
, an american audience oh, okayso it's more colloquially
friendly in amer in, you know,like english got you because I

(01:05:12):
it's, I had to turn it off too.
I had to turn off the subtitlesokay, all right, so yeah, yeah
yeah, it gets.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
It gets confusing like that and I know that a lot
of the way that those Englishsubtitles are situated.
A lot of the Asian-speakingcountries learn, like England,
english Right.
So it's set up in that kind ofway, although I have spoken to a

(01:05:40):
few and they say that theyprefer to learn American English
because we have a lot lessrules.
They said our English is superlax.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I like that.
That's cool.
All right, guys, next week forepisode 110, we're going to be
covering….

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Rubitar, as I call it .

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Yeah, rubitar, it's kind of like Avatar and Ruby and
ruby rwby, um, but yeah, so wewill be covering the dragon
prince season one it's.
We're not going to be breakingthis into two episodes.
We can watch the entirety inprobably the same amount of time
as like a long movie.
So I think that's what we'rewe're gonna do, and, if we, you

(01:06:22):
know, I think there's sevenseasons.
We don't need to do them all atonce, basically, but yeah, so
that's agreed that's uh wherewe're at right now.
We're, we're all in agreementfor dragon prince next week I'm
down season one all right sizein one thank you guys so much
for listening to us here for our109th episode of project
ecology.
If you want to check out any ofour socials, please be sure to

(01:06:44):
check out the show notes downbelow.
You can find us on Twitter, onYouTube, on Instagram, and I
think we haven't actually beenputting Rich in the show notes
and I feel like it's about timethat we finally start doing that
.
So we're probably going to haveto go back and start putting
Rich in the show notes so youcan follow him on on wherever

(01:07:06):
he's.
Uh, you know popping off online,but uh, yeah, thanks, guys so
that you can see who let themets out.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
You know, yeah, oh man peter lonzo's back, baby
yeah all right, sorry oh, oh, um.
Also, you know, we need, wewere, we require our listeners
to, you know, give us somethingthat, that that we, you know, we
enjoy, we enjoy these, like youknow.
Just imagine this fat juicyfive-star rating, you know, and

(01:07:38):
just like put it on there youknow we're recording this over
zoom.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
we're recording this over zoom and like're recording
this over zoom and like Anthonyhas his, has his hands in a
position where it's like he caneat like a burger.
He's picturing like thejuiciest, fattest burger you can
ever imagine.
I literally was like in my mind, like I was starting to get
hungry, like as I was imaginingthis.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
I'm like dude, like I want a burger right now.
We need that five-star review.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
It has to be juicy.
If you want to leave a reviewon top of that, please feel free
if your podcast app allows it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Thanks, guys, on to the next one, the Wolverine.
That's what we were waiting for.