The Rings of Power - Season 2, Part 2 - Project Geekology

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ear For
the 103rd episode of ProjectEcology.
We're discussing not JuliusCaesar by William Shakespeare.
We're discussing the last fourepisodes of the Rings of Power.
I have no idea why I started itthat way.
It was just in my head.
So here we go.

(00:20):
We're going to keep rollingwith it.
My name is Dakota, I'm one halfof your host, I'm joined as
always with, and we have aspecial guest who has been a
special guest for a coupleepisodes.
At this point, rich say hi.
Good to see you.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'd just like to know that for the rest of the
episode, my name is Rich Ard.
That's the name that I earned,all right, and I'm a proud Uruk.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
And I'm a proud Uruk Is that Richard, the.
Ork Uruk.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
We got to get it straight that's the name he
earned, Anthony.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Come on, I don't want Rich to reach through the
screen and strangle me.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yes, because even though you're listening to us
here on an audio podcast, we dolook at each other through a
screen while we talk to eachother.
So we have a lot to talk abouttoday the final four episodes of
the second season of the Ringsof Power.
We finally have made it to theend, at least of the second
season.
I think I can say for each andevery one of us that we are

(01:19):
excited for what happens next.
We are excited for what happensnext, but today is going to be
a discussion of strictly thosefour episodes, with an overview
of the entire season, seasonsplus so far, and I personally
enjoyed it a lot, anthony, offthe cuff, what did you think?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I thought it was fantastic.
I feel like all the time thatwe spent watching both seasons
really paid off by the end.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
And Rich, I know you've watched this a couple
times.
At this point, how do you feelhaving made it through this
critical analysis, not only justwith the podcast, but finally
making it to these four episodes?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'm super excited to be able to discuss it with you
guys.
Finally, I don't have to keepanything safe, I don't have to
keep anything secret.
I can just come out here andjust talk about how many booms
I'm giving this show overall andyou know just kind of that's
what we do.
You know we just we bring theboom here.
You know the Kazakh do.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
We bring the Kazakh boom.
Yeah, I like that.
My wife just looked over me andjust like, like like gasped
inaudibly, like she just put herhand to her her face and just
like I cannot believe you saidthat um, anyway, I may have been
planning that all day long, bythe way, so nice.
So, yeah, we we have.

(02:37):
We have a lot to cover.
Um, I think, before we touch onanything, I think we we deserve
to talk about the grand elf inthe room, gandalf.
Anthony, you and I knew fromthe beginning this had to be
Gandalf.
How do you feel, do you feeljustified, that the stranger is
now going by his true andrightful name, his earned name,

(03:00):
like Richard the Uruk over here,like Richard?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
the Uruk over here.
It's so funny because you and Ihave been saying this what I
think since the first fourepisodes of season one that we
felt like that's who he was.
So like getting thatconfirmation it was gratifying.
It was.

(03:26):
It was like dude, like I feltlike I knew from the beginning,
but like actually hearing it waslike yeah, like like that is
absolutely who he is, and thenseeing that like classic gandalf
the gray staff.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I think I would have flipped my antique coffee table
if it was just like nice to meetyou, saruman, and I would have
been so upset I would have beenlike no rich was really trying
to throw us off the scent bysaying it was radagast.
Yeah, I could have been youknow there was no smoke where
there was fire in that one, butI didn't know what to do anymore

(03:52):
.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
I mean, I feel the same as you guys.
I thought it.
You know, I right away kind ofthought it was gandalf, right,
like very right, yeah I thoughtit was actually I won't lie to
you now that I can kind of speakopenly about it.
At the end of season one we findout who Sauron is, you know, or
that Halbron is Sauron, right.
And I was a little frustratedat the end of season one because

(04:16):
I was like you're going to makeme wait, come on, like this is
so obvious.
And you know, I hadn't likedthe idea that we had two guys,
that we didn't know who theywere.
And then I was like at leastit's gonna be resolved.
And when I got to the end ofepisode, that's why, that's why
I said that season onefrustrated me so much.
Also, like later, once I knowit's gandalf and I can kind of

(04:38):
be comfortable and I'm notthinking it might be saruman or
like one of the other bluewizards, uh, right right right
you know, I was, I enjoy it somuch more.
But like, while I'm waiting andthinking it might be saruman, it
just kind of I was like thenhow is he gonna go and like
become a good guy and then turnhe and I don't know?
There were so many questionsand like wrapped up in it that

(04:59):
once I knew I just enjoyed it somuch more and then in this
season, sauron just kind ofdisappears halfway through and
this guy, annatar, shows up.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
And who the heck is Annatar?
I have no idea.
We're gonna talk all about thatlater.
Um, but uh, anthony, before weget into, uh, any of our you
know any more of our discussion,what have you been up to?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
well, last week I had told you that marvel rivals was
dropping, so I've been playinga bit of that yeah, tell me
about it.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I I've heard.
Uh, to be honest, I've been offthe internet so I've heard
nothing, but please tell me it's.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
It's been pretty fun.
They they released.
So, on top of the charactersthat they had throughout the
beta, they released a coupleother characters like there's
like cloak and dagger, there'smoon knight, uh, there's captain
america, there's there'sseveral others, and they have a
bunch that like have alreadybeen leaked that they're
planning to put into the game.

(05:57):
And I've been like really I'vebeen really having fun.
I've played a lot of cloak anddagger that they're like support
, slash, damage they.
Um, that balance kind ofreminds me a little bit of of
moira from overwatch.
Moira is a support character,but she also does like a lot of
damage too.
So like having that ability tokind of like swap between cloak

(06:22):
and dagger and they have theirvarious abilities.
I've also played a lot of moonknight.
Moon knight is pretty op rightnow and that that's because like
just like, really like some ofhis abilities.
And then there's the fact thata lot of these characters they
have like these team ups.
So if you play certaincharacters together, they get

(06:43):
like buffs and stuff.
So it is really, it really islike a good idea to like, really
pay attention to like who yourteam is playing and trying to
kind of like fit in with thosecharacters so that you can kind
of synchronize like a lot better.
Like cloak and dagger and moonknight go together and the cloak
and dagger kind of gives moonknight this like kind of like an

(07:05):
invisibility buff where he cango invisible, invisible for a
little bit so cloak and dagger,um, based on whatever thing that
you're saying is kind of likeice climbers and, uh, super
smash bros well I'm just messingwith you.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Um, I hate the ice climbers, but yeah, I do love
cloak and dagger, and I have notplayed marvel rival, so I'm
trying to like come.
I've come up with a parallel inmy head you should.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
You should definitely check it out.
I mean I I know that you likeoverwatch.
I mean there's hawkeye in there, so I mean he, he might and
hawkeye hawkeye is a little biton on the op side too and now he
may they get rid of hisscattershot so, so they may you
know, so you may actually enjoyhim, because you know that'll

(07:56):
give your hanzo fix yeah, nerfthis right, cool man and so, oh
yeah, and as of recording thisfriday, I'm prepping to, or I'm
gonna go see war the rohirrim.
I I know that uh rich had saidthat he's planning on going to
see that on friday.
Also, I'm pretty stoked.

(08:16):
Uh, we, we had already.
I don't know if we had actuallyannounced it on podcast.
We'll probably reiterate it atthe end of this episode, but
after after this episode drops,our next episode will be on war
the rohirrim, and rich is morethan welcome to join us for the

(08:37):
uh continued lord of the ringstrain that we've been on yes,
we're excited to see what thepeter jackson side of the lord
of the rings franchise holds,because that's like being
brought back into this movie.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Um, and that's canon to those films that the peter
jackson you know.
Sextology, whatever you call it, yeah I don't know um yeah so I
I do not have my tickets yet,but I'm excited to jump into
that.
I didn't realize how limitedthe screening of it was.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I know, I didn't realize that either, but
so far most of the theatersaround me are showing it, so I
have a pretty good selection.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I have a pretty good selection.
My local theater, alamoDrafthouse, is showing the
extended editions, on separatedays, of the original Lord of
the Rings trilogy, but not Warof the Rahirams.
So I have to get out of mycomfort zone a little bit and go
to a theater that I don'tusually frequent for that.
But that's fine.
It's okay.
There's plenty of showings inmy area, so don't worry, that's

(09:45):
all good.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh, and we also had you.
You had also brought up lastweek skeleton crew, so I
actually finally got to sit down.
I haven't watched the thirdepisode yet, but I did watch
those first two episodes and Iam glad to say that I'm enjoying
it.
So far, I actually do like it.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Rich, have you been catching up with Skeleton Crew
at all?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, I mean so fantastic.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
It's fun.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
I think it motivated me to do something a little
crazy.
I can share it on this podcast,because there's no chance my
wife listens Excellent.
Essentially, I'm also slightlymotivated I'm sorry to take this
slight detour by Steve Cohen,the Mets owner, deciding that he
was a boss and spending tons ofmoney.
I decided to go ahead and getmy wife the Holy Grail the Lego

(10:38):
Millennium Falcon.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh, wow, okay, it's a good thing.
I do not know your wife,because I would be texting her
immediately about that, you know, just but no that's really
awesome that's really cool, rich.
The mets made a.
A pretty seismic move was inthe past couple days.
How do you feel juan soto,former yankee, went to the world

(11:01):
series, was fantastic starplayer.
Uh was up for what was it?
A 10-year contract with theyankees for like 500, 500 mil or
something like that.
What was the uh feeling thatyou felt?
Uh, being a mets, a mets fan,uh, and knowing that my wife's
looking at me she's a yankeesfan, she's, she's giving, she's

(11:23):
giving me the stank eye.
How do you feel having JuanSoto on the team there?

Speaker 3 (11:30):
are so many emotions?
The Mets team obviously.
So many emotions, I mean justfirst of all, I feel like
somebody who bought Apple early,because I bought a 40-game
season plan, 40-game half-seasonplan for the weekends.
This is why I'm coaching now,now, so I can literally pay for
those seats.
I I thought this year somethingsaid to me lockdown seats.

(11:55):
I don't think it's going to beas easy to get seats.
Next year I think you're goingto pay more money.
And now I've guaranteed myselfopening day.
I'm going to sell my yankeetickets because angry yankee
fans are going to go to Boo Sotoat the stadium and I don't want
to see Yankee jerseys in mystadium.
And then I'm going to getplayoff tickets.
I'm going to go to one gamewith my family, sell the other

(12:16):
game for an absurd amount ofmoney, because I'll be getting
them at face value and not thestupid new pricing system they
have.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Hold on.
Are you planning to sell yoursubway tickets?

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Oh, I won't.
No, no, no.
I want to be clear.
I have only attended one MetYankee game ever at Citi Field.
The feeling of being surroundedby Yankee jerseys in my home is
something that I will nottolerate and I will not subject

(12:47):
my son to seeing that.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
All right, so rich do you have the answer to, to the
question that everybody has beenasking who let the mets out man
?

Speaker 3 (12:55):
I, steve cohen, let the mets out.
I, this guy, is just willing tospend all of his money and I,
uh, I honestly love him for it.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I and anger a bunch of yankee fans you know it, just
it I.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
I look it's obviously a ridiculous contract.
I think it's way too much moneyfor any player.
Um, I have a deep fear that themets luck is that he's going to
like twist his ankle in themiddle of the season and never
be the same again oh man, yeah,yeah, it's, you know, yeah but I
think what it says, what itdoes for the metsets, is that it
makes it makes it a now it's anattractive landing spot, more

(13:29):
attractive than it's ever beenbefore.
You know, it's like they'regoing for it, they're trying to
build something.
I might want to go there andthat's something we haven't had
in my lifetime.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
I like it.
I like it.
Um, cool man.
Yeah, I like it.
I like it.
Cool man, yeah.
So, Anthony, I don't know theexact numbers, but Juan Soto was
contracted onto the Mets forsomething like $700 plus million
over the course of 15 years.
Oh my, it's a crazy contract.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
How old is he?
Well, 26 years old.
So it's $765 for 15 years.
But after the first five years,basically, there's an opt
option where his the mets he canopt out if the mets don't
increase his salary for the last10 years of the contract by 4

(14:20):
million a year.
So that similarly happened toGarrett Cole this year, where
the team declined to opt out ofthe contract essentially, or
declined that raise and GarrettCole could have left the Yankees
, but he chose to just not takethe raise and stay with the team
.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
That's a crazy contract.
That's pretty much like theentirety of like the rest of his
time as a pro player.
He gets a that's.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I mean, that's the goal.
Yeah, he gets a seat fourpremium seats a year.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
His family has a personal suite all year.
The yankees apparently wouldnot budge on the personal family
suite.
So, uh, you know really, yeah,that was um a sticking point,
that's so strange.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
A slight sticking point, that's so strange.
Okay, well, whatever, uh, I'm,you know if, if that was a big,
I guess, sign-on bonus, uh to beto become a met, I'm, I'm happy
for him the mets have been letout man here the mets have been
let out cool.
Uh, as far as what I've been upto, not a whole lot.

(15:26):
Again, I've been watchingSkeleton Crew.
I watched episode 3.
Fantastic, I will say it'sslowed down a little bit now
that they've met the Jude Law'scharacter.
I don't want to get too muchinto spoilers here, but it's a
very cozy show, if that makesany sense.
It's just something roll upwith, you know, like a hot

(15:47):
chocolate and just kind of just,you know, be a kid for 30
minutes.
It's.
It's a really fun show.
Some really interesting aliencharacters.
That's that's like my biggest,that's my biggest uh, takeaway
is that, like, some of the aliencharacters are just so creative
, especially in this, this, uh,third episode, um, there's a

(16:07):
character that looks like an owland it's just I, I love, I love
the way that they.
It's one of those things like Ican't tell if it's like cgi or
practical or just a mix of both,and it's it's fantastically
done and it that that kind ofwonder keeps me going for the
entire episode.
So it's I, I like, I like that,that kind of stuff, uh, a whole

(16:31):
lot.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Um, on, a star wars is becoming like dnd.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
They're just adding more and more different types of
species, like every year oh,yeah, I mean, star wars has been
doing that for from you know,the beginning really, but uh,
yeah, it has become verydnd-esque in in that sense.
So, yeah, I, I agree, uh,creatively, I've been hard at
work writing my scripts for theavatar timeline.

(16:57):
I, I know I've been talkingabout this for months, but this
is, you know, it means a lot tome to get this right the first
time.
So I'm trying to do my best, uh, over the course of, you know,
weeks and months.
But I'm excited about that.
And there's been a lot of Idon't want to get into like
crazy details about this becauseI know most of the audience
doesn't care but there's been alot, a lot, a lot, a lot of

(17:20):
leaks in regards to the, thethird avatar series.
If you're looking for it, likeif you're in that that bubble,
you, you will know all about it.
Like, the avatar is named, the.
The premise of the series iskind of explored, uh, the setup
for how the series takes shapeis is totally detailed.

(17:41):
Um, and I feel bad for avatarstudios because, like, clearly
this wasn't meant to get outthis way, but there's concept
art out, there's, you know,names of characters.
There's, um, like ages and, uh,potential I don't want to say
villains, but like mysteries,like we already kind of know the
big mysteries of of this series, um, at least for the first

(18:02):
season.
So I'm really floored by howmuch has come out about this
show that is coming out in acouple of years, but we have
absolutely zero informationabout the Avatar Aang movie.
That's coming out in a singleyear.
It's coming out next January,not this coming January, but
next January.
We have no idea even what thefinished title for the film is.

(18:24):
We have no idea what thesetting or the story is for that
, but we know almost everythingthere is to possibly tease about
the show, like the third Avatarseries that's coming out after
that movie.
So just crazy.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
That's crazy yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, I don't want to talk too much about like
spoilers on that, because, yeah,spoilers.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Sounds good man.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Guys, should we explore some of the powers that
these rings hold?
I think we should.
Yeah, so in the lead up to Ithink it was the second episode
that we recorded about the ringsof power that we recorded about
the rings of power, I had alittle prediction about where I

(19:09):
thought the general guideline ofthe multi-season arc was gonna
roll out.
So the first season we saw the,the forging of the elven rings.
I I posited that the secondseason would be the forging of
the dwarven rings, the sevendwarf rings, and the third
season would be the forging ofthe third or the nine human
rings.
I was a little bit off there.
It seems as though the, therings are already forged by the.

(19:32):
The human rings, that, that is,are already forged by the time
that this season concludes, butnone of them have been
distributed to the human rulersat this point right, but you
still tracked that it was likeelves, dwarves and inhumans.
It's just off a season, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still
that way yeah, I'm excited tosee how and when sauron decides

(19:57):
he needs to, uh, make a finalring for himself.
He's clearly not allowed inaregion anymore, especially now
that aregion is destroyed, um,uh, so we're gonna have to see,
um, when and if he decides.
You know why don't I just forgeit in this really hot volcano

(20:17):
over there in the southlands?

Speaker 3 (20:19):
um, we have.
Like the thing is, if I youknow, I'm trying to think of the
men or the kings, right, and ifI remember correctly, isn't
Elendil supposed to be the kingof Gondor at some point?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
You're talking about Isildur's father.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I don't recall off the top of my head but.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I thought he was a leader, or I thought he was from
a race of kings within Numenor,but not within the main part of
Numenor, but the western sideof Numenor, or something like
that I might be off.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
I'm just trying to.
There's a part of me that feelslike he's a king of Gondor at
some point, and we haven't seenanything of Gondor.
We don't know what state Rohanis.
We have not met any of therulers.
So I know technically theforging happened in season two,
but I feel like there's got tobe a lot of world building that

(21:17):
we don't.
We don't even know one, I mean,other than, I guess, elendil.
Right, we don't know anybodywho would possibly get rings
really of men, and he, to myknowledge, is not one of the
nine.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah.
So I think what's fascinatingis we only ever see one Dwarven
king.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, I was actually about to say that.
And there's what seven?
Right, there's seven Dwarvenkings, yeah.
Right and we only really seeone at play.
I think they tease at the end ofthe season that the other
Dwarven nations have alreadypaid tribute to durin and are
expecting their returns whichI'm assuming means they are

(22:03):
expecting a ring well, and italso sounds like there's
probably going to be a bit of apower struggle, because, uh,
durin's brother kind of makes itseems like he wants to make a
play for the throne too yeah,there's a.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
There's a lot that needs to happen in season three
and four because we, first ofall, we've never even met
durin's brother, so I have noidea what, what this, even like
that, that line was such athrowaway like oh, by the way,
maybe you're not the king that'swhy.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's why I just feel like, I feel like eight
episode seasons is just notenough, man.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I find this funny because each episode the minimum
length for an episode in aseason is 62 minutes I was like
I could not believe how longeach episode was, because
altogether we probably got likewhat 10, 11 hours worth of like
footage.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
I mean that's plenty of time well, well, I mean, but
the thing is, is that, like Imean, remember back in the day,
like you know, we had we therewas a lot of shows that were
like what?
Maybe about 45 minutes, and youwould get like 26 episodes now
like 45 minutes.
Yet that's like about 15minutes shy of like what we got,

(23:26):
but still that's close enough.
I'm not saying to give me awhole 20 episode season, but
like you know, it was 26 andthen the standard dropped down
to like 15, 16, then we wentdown to 13, then we went down to
10, then now we're down to 8.
What's gonna be now next five?

Speaker 1 (23:44):
well, well, some, some shows are definitely like
in the six episode range.
Like a couple of the marvelshows have been six episodes and
it's just it's very clear likethese were meant to be movies
and we're just cut down to sizeright, and and a lot of them are
like series.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
This is a full-blown series, where I mean dude, game
of Thrones.
We had 10 episode seasons, andthen which seasons are the ones?
That really started to sufferwas when they started trying to
cut them down.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I agree, I don't disagree and I will say, while I
don't necessarily think thatthey need more episodes, I am
happy that they aren't timeconstrained per episode, because
a lot of shows, um, I think oflike lucasfilm, it seems as

(24:36):
though even their 45-minuteshows, like Mandalorian Book of
Boba Fett, ahsoka, that kind ofshow, twice or so per season
they'd have an episode that'slike 25 minutes and it's like
how did this happen?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
How do you budget a?

Speaker 1 (24:53):
show like this, and consistently every season.
We don't have this with Ringsof power in that, in that same
respect, because each episode isalmost like a mini movie and,
and I think that the last twoepisodes were like the longest
they were in the 70 minutes,yeah, it was.
It was really, it was reallyimpressive.
I mean, I, I, I do think thatthere is so much to tolkien's

(25:16):
lore that you can expand it topotentially, you know, like,
well, I mean, that's why theyhave five seasons planned, I
guess, right, but, um, you're,you're right rich.
Going back to what you weresaying, we don't know about any
of the great, uh, human races onmiddle earth because numenor

(25:36):
has been, you know, taken out ofthe equation for probably what?
a thousand years the entirety ofthe second age.
So we don't have anythinggondor, we don't have anything
rohan, we don't have any, anyhumans outside of, like the
scattered villages of thesouthlands yeah and those were
loyal to, to, to mordor andSauron, or before Mordor they

(26:00):
were loyal to Sauron.
So we don't know what the otherraces of men look like on
Middle-earth at this point,because pretty much we've been
following the Highmen, theHighmen.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
The Dunedain.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
The Dunedain, the people of numenor, who live a
little bit longer than thenormal humans, but, you know,
not as long as elves.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So you're right, we we need to see more of anything
regarding humans outside of thesouthlands, basically well, you
know, hopefully next season westart to see a lot more of that
and you know, hopefully they westart to see, because I I highly
doubt that next season is goingto show all nine rings

(26:46):
distributed.
But you know, we still like, westill need to see more of the
dwarves and then those ringsbeing distributed out to the
dwarves, unless they already are, and we just didn't see it so
there are a couple jumpsthroughout the the show that I
feel like happen out of nowhereand it's really hard to tell how

(27:06):
much time is actually passing.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
So in the beginning of the first season the elves go
to the dwarves to request thatthey help them build a new forge
for Celebrimbor.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
In the time that the show occurs in.
It feels like it's been maybe acouple months maybe, but
clearly, based on the you knowlike, the forge is completely
finished by the time the secondseason starts.
We don't really get all of thattime jump, but it's probably

(27:43):
been what?
Four or five months.
If the dwarves are like reallyfast at making forges, I have no
idea.
But I think overall we'reprobably looking, you know like,
at a period of about a year,maybe two years that have passed
throughout this show.
And I think that's a fault ofthe timeline, because we know

(28:03):
that these events are beingcompressed from the entirety of
the second age into a watchableseason of television.
So because they have to say,you know like, well, keller
brimbor needed the dorbs helpand that's how they found out
about the Mithril and that'swhen Sauron found out that you

(28:24):
know Celebrimbor had Mithril andthat's when he requested that
everyone gets rings.
So all of this stuff ishappening, but really in a
realistic time frame this wouldhappen over the course of years,
not months.
But it needs to happen over thecourse of months because not a
lot of other stuff is happeningfor the story to take place.
So it's kind of like aparadoxical thing where in

(28:46):
reality months, maybe years arepassing, but in actual visual
time on screen we're only seeingdays or weeks pass.
So it's a weird thing.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's probably my biggest criticism coming out of
these two seasons well, whatthey did was they jumped through
like a wormhole that reallyshot them into the, into the
future.
But yeah, dude, that, yeah, youknow, I didn't even really
think about it.
But yeah, they didn't reallyshow like they didn't really
they.
They talked about the need of agreat forge but they didn't

(29:20):
show it actually really beingbuilt.
It was just, it went frominception to completion, just
like that 100 percent.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, Rich are we.
Are we missing something?

Speaker 3 (29:33):
here it's, they're doing, uh, I think they're doing
a generally fine job, becauseall of this stuff is supposed to
happen over years and years andyears.
Yeah, it's not.
It's not.
It's not something that unfurlsslowly, uh, I mean quickly,
like this.
So you know, I I didn't eventhink that there was that much

(29:56):
passage of time reallydemonstrated.
I mean, there's a couple oftimes over the episodes, uh,
where elrond, when elrond anddurin have a conversation, he's
like oh man, something's beenhappening to me, and he's like I
don't think it's as bad as me,as what's been happening to me,
and he's like I gotta overthrowmy dad.
And then he, like elrond, turnsaround and he's like well, I

(30:19):
got a lot going on too, so thatmade it feel like there was some
time passing.
And we know that.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
That's a good point.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
During that time where he was, you know, not in
the good graces of his dad, anincredibly financially
irresponsible prince that youknow, the he kind of got, like
his daddy, cut his credit cardoff and they were kind of

(30:46):
destitute for a while.
And I don't think you becomedestitute in three days, you
know, like I don't excellentpoint.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
You don't just tighten yourbelt and get a new job and get
beaten up by your co-workers inthe span of a week.
But that's what we see of Durinand it does seem like it's
happening very quickly, butobviously it needs a little bit
of time.
And I think that's kind of theunfortunate historical aspect of

(31:18):
Tolkien's like awareness, likehe's aware of the passage of
time, he's aware of how historyworks on a macro level and like
he can tell these stories andthen this happened, and then
this happened, and then thishappened, and this is over the
course of 100 years.
But for a show like this toreally get that stuff across,

(31:39):
you need to tell it like youwould any other show, like back
to back to back to back, insteadof like five years later Durin
isn't allowed to buy the reallynice mushroom he sees at the
grocery store Stuff like that uh, yeah, stuff like that.

(32:02):
Uh, let's stick with the dwarvesa little bit because, um, I I
did find that to be one of themore fascinating aspects of
these, these last four episodesof season two.
Yeah, specifically when it cameto the ring, because we we
haven't really talked about kingdurin too much, uh, prior to
this point, but what struck meis that he's a very cautious,
very reserved and very wary king.

(32:23):
He doesn't want to get involvedwith other people he doesn't
know, he doesn't want to dig toodeep on the off chance
something goes wrong.
And I even wondered does heknow about the Balrog?
And that's why he doesn't wantto like dive into, like the
mithril mines.
Is that why he's like stoppingall uh production going forward?

Speaker 2 (32:45):
you know.
It's interesting that you saythat, because I feel like, I
feel like he, he knew something.
If it wasn't specifically thebalrog, I think he knew that
there was something going onbecause he was very adamant
about not mining the mithril itwas like dogmatic in a way, you

(33:07):
know, like it was just like no,no, no, this is, this is the law
.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
We cannot do it.
And this is like he was sayingit in a way that was just, you
know, like for the safety ofeveryone involved, we can't do
this.
But clearly all of that wentout the window the the moment he
got, like the literal momentthat he got the ring on because,
like it was the next day wherehe had entirely changed his tune

(33:30):
, but I don't know if it's thenext day again like it's the
time passage in the show is veryconfusing, but it seemed as
though it was the next day andyou.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
You can see the influence like over time of the
ring like it was like he.
He essentially became like ashell of his former self, you
know, and prince durin, like he,he saw that and like he knew
that it was the ring, like hecould tell, like he completely

(33:59):
changed after he started wearingthat ring and even Disa had
picked up on that.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, rich, you have anything to say about?
Like Durin's quicktransformation from wary,
thoughtful king to completelygreed driven?

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Well, there's a couple of things I'm trying to
kind of parse out here.
So the the rings that the elveshave seem to, generally
speaking, have no ill effects onthe wearer.
And if we kind of go by theunderstanding that we know that
galadriel still has her ring Ibelieve in Jackson's canon right

(34:42):
, if she has that ring, itdoesn't seem to have any ill
effects.
So the same exact process, giveor take, was used to make the
Dwarven rings.
The only thing that we can seeat any point with forging is
that when the men I'm sorry, therings of men, the rings of men
are forged, those have sauron'sblood right like yeah, that's

(35:07):
crazy, that was crazy that's hismalice poured into it right,
the kind of like the one ring,and so I understand how the ring
of men and the the one ringright have his malice directly
in it.
So that's far more, uh, it has afar more powerful effect on the
wearer.
I just don't see.

(35:27):
And then there was that onering that was messed up, that
mirandir, mirandir war, and shewent into like the shadow realm
and she became invisible.
Uh, I just, I wish we couldkind of understand.
Like I don't get it.
I can't tell you this is whatthese rings do to these wearers
and why one is different than,like, what the elves have.

(35:51):
Is it just their natural, their, I guess, I guess there's a
couple ways to look at it.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
For the one thing, it seemed as though, before Sauron
dropped the mithril into theconcoction for the Dwarven rings
, it seemed as though he put alittle curse on it.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know, like he kind of closed his eyes.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
He kind of whispered something, he dropped it in.
We don't see that with theforging of the elf rings, but he
does touch the mithril.
He's just like what, or is this?
And in that moment he couldhave put something on it.
You know, like there, there isa connection there where he
physically touched the mithrilore before that was inserted

(36:31):
into the elven rings.
So that's that.
That is fascinating, I I think,obviously, the major points
that I think Tolkien might havemade was that the elves, their
statute, is of such a purenature that it may not have

(36:53):
affected them in the way that itwould affect the other wearers.
Either way, they did becomereliant on the rings.
Uh, you see that a couple timesthroughout the beginning of
these first couple episodes,even just even slight ways, like
when, when, uh, when galadrielput her ring on, there's a, like
a, a creepy smile like she likeputs on her face, like it's

(37:16):
just like a everything I've everwanted is right here in my hand
, sort of thing.
And that's exactly what sauronwants.
He wants you to feel likeeverything that you want is
going correctly.
And that's kind of what he didwith the dorvin rings, right, he
?
He made them to fix a problemthat ultimately he kind of
created.
You know know he wanted thelike it was his plan to for

(37:41):
eventually Mount Doom to eruptand for all of these Dorvan
mining operations to becomeextremely dangerous because of X
number of curses he's placed onon the world as it is.
So these rings, with themithril infused nature of them,
would help the wearers fixwhatever problems they deem fit.

(38:06):
And I think that that's a keyfactor is that the mithril is,
you know, connected to theSilmarils, which goes back into
the Silmarillion, which goesback into the Untold Tales of
Tolkien's lore, and these werecreated by Feanor as three great

(38:26):
stones of power, much strongerthan the actual rings of power.
But because the rings are sodeceptive and given as gifts and
unassuming I guess you knowit's a ring, it's an unassuming
thing these gifts to elves,dwarves and man are more
powerful even though they're.

(38:47):
They're less powerful justbecause of the fact that they
can corrupt the mind, especiallywith saran as the influencer.
So I I think it's interestingthat you point out that they
don't even this, he doesn't evenbother, uh, putting Mithril
into the rings of men.
At that point he's just like.
You know what I tried.
I'm just going to give him pureevil.
He cuts his hand.

(39:10):
He's like this is from theMithril mines, you know it's
just like a jar of Mithril.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
But it's crazy, dude, like he uses like some sort of
genjitsu on this guy.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Dude, he's completely flabbergasted.
Celebrimbor is like he'sliterally.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I felt so bad for him .
I felt so bad for Celebrimbor.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
As the season went on , my heart was breaking for this
guy he was like theoden and youknow, with with like worm
tongue, you know, like he'sbasically crawling on all fours.
He thinks he's in, he's incharge, you know, but he's being
deceived left and right right,um yeah so with the human rings.

(39:55):
It's fascinating that there wasno mithril infused into them.
So it's just evil power.
That's all that's in that ringor those nine rings.
It's just evil power.
There's nothing in them to fixwhatever issues the humans are
experiencing.
It's just evil power.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
So it makes sense why they would turn into
ringwraiths.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Because I mean it, it's just straight up, he dosed
it.
So we're talking a little bitabout the rings and what it
seems like Sauron's real powerIs when you, you allow him to,
you let him in, you kind of.
As soon as you let him in, youkind of give him access to your

(40:39):
mind, and it seems like therings like really amplify that
power, and and so it's like therings are the doors for which
sauron just can open and just belike, hey, you know, just like
influence you in that kind ofway and like, yeah, man, you
know, like you said, like with,in that kind of way and like,
yeah, man, you know, like yousaid, like with the human rings,

(41:02):
like he just used his blood andhe's just like full on
influence with this one.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, I did, I did like that.
He tried, you know.
He went to.
He went to Kazadum.
He spoke with the king.
He's just like you know, I gaveit my best shot.
I also noticed I happened tonotice that there was a Balrog
right below.
You guys Gonna use that againstyou really quickly, but I don't
really care, because I'm justgonna use my blood.

(41:30):
You know I don't need theMithril.
You know he could easily havejust like snuck down, grabbed a
could.
He could scoop mithril out ofeverywhere, like that.
That place is full of mithril.
Um, he, he chose I.
I love the fact that he wentthere like earnestly.
He like he, he tried.
You know, he's just like.
You know what this is.
This is for the little humans.

(41:51):
We're gonna do something nicefor him.
Durin's just like noop and he'sjust like I got a second option
anyway, don't worry my blood,what?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
what about that scene ?
That that, uh, you know kellerbrimbor thinks he hears
something like.
He hears like the panic outsideand he goes outside.
You know, saran tries to stophim for a little bit but then he
goes outside and theneverything looks perfectly fine.
Dude, like that was insane.

(42:21):
That scene was so crazy andthat's why I, like I'm I'm
kidding, kind of getting likeyou know, he, he, he's so
embedded in color brimbor's mindthat like, yeah, dude, he let,
he used genjitsu on this guy I.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
I turned to my wife at that moment.
I was just like, at this pointI'm on sarin's side, like this
is like crazy levels of justlike reality manipulation.
I'm, you know, like he deservesto win at this point.
Come on, like that man, like hewas like thanos in that moment,
like the reality stone, likelike it was so insane.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
And then when he goes back in and then like how the
camera pans and then it showsthe reality, I was like dude
fantastic dude, like it was socrazy and you know, I, I'm, I'm
so, I'm so happy because I feellike lord of the rings isn't
lord of the rings without areally good siege oh, yeah, yeah

(43:16):
, uh, uh, rich.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Why don't you talk about the, the siege of aragion,
a little bit like what are yourthoughts now that you've seen
it a couple times?
How do you feel about adar'splan to take siege over aragion?
Is it, is it obvious that it'ssauron's plan all all along?
Like, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
so well, there's a couple of well, all right, a
couple questions about elves andtheir and their ability to
fight, right, you know, I Iguess maybe spoiled by by
keleborn, by legolas, obviously,right, uh, I always feel like I
say his name a little bit wrong, but a rondeer I think you got

(43:56):
it right like.
Finally, I don't, even if arigion is, quote, unquote,
understaffed at this moment, uh,slightly skeleton crewish.
I don't understand why they Imean I understand the orcs have
large numbers, but you knowlegalists would kill, like you
know, 40 something withoutblinking.

(44:17):
You know it was.
He would just rapid fire even,uh, what's her name?
Evangela lily.
Uh, you know you guys favoritecharacter and in the hobbit
series, uh, she was it feely'slove interest, keely.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
I think it's no clue.
Honestly, literally no clue butshe would kill.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
She killed, like you know, she was great, and it just
feels like you have Elrond,who's a very good warrior, you
have his crew, but then theothers seem to be woefully
unprepared for battle.
I don't know if this is theCoast Guard.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, maybe.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
I'm insulting somebody right now.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
But it just seems like the lower ranks of their.
We know that aregion is full ofsmiths.
It's not necessarily full ofwarriors.
Obviously there's warriors inthere, but you don't, we don't
really have too much knowledgeof their personal prowess on the
battlefields.
Obviously, the, the army thatthe king and elrond showed up on

(45:15):
, you know, like the, the armythat they showed up with is, and
proved to be more skillful thanyou know, the archers that were
on the wall, basically thatwere already there yeah, I, I
think that they like overwhelmedthem with sheer numbers.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean like let's, let's take a look at the elves
that fought at helms deep, likethey were getting rocked too,
and like the, they werespecifically like they.
I think that those were actualwarriors and by the end of that
battle, not a, not an elf wasalive, except for a legolas that
was right and yeah, I do likethe fact that I think it's in

(45:51):
helms deep.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
There's that same shot where the wall gets taken
down and then there's just theorcs flooding in or wait, wait
that's the battle of gondor.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
No, that is.
That is.
That is humsley?

Speaker 3 (46:02):
yeah, it is humsley right and I just kind of love I
do love the that that siegewarfare.
Uh, I mean, I do want to knowhow the orcs knew that that was
the weak point of the wall whenkeller celery bimbo was celery
bimbo.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
He looks down, he goes.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
That's the weakest part of the wall or that's the
weakest part of the wall, andthey, they were able to take it
down.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
So yeah, yeah, that was interesting I think, I think
the the whole thing is uh,celery bimbo said that's the
weakest part of the wall and hepointed at it and they're like
that's the one we got to get atguys.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Let's he's pointing at it roll the machine, go, go
for it he let it out of the bag.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I mean, that was pretty cool.
I loved the, the, the archerthat's part of I can't, I don't
think.
I recall.
I'm not even sure if she isnamed, but she's rolling with
elrond through the battle and heoh, she's like I don't know
what I can do and she's likehe's like even one arrow could
help us and she has, and shejust gets like rocked by a bunch

(47:06):
of arrows.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Just one arrow of like oh, my gosh Wolverine that
is so unfortunate, but yeah, no,you're right.
And then, finally, we got thehill troll that came into play
you know, I

Speaker 3 (47:23):
love that guy.
He's kind of instrumental inwhat happens later because it is
at ours, at ours.
I don't know if that uruk ishis actual son or just his
closest and like number one.
I think it's the number oneyeah, because you know?
And he says hey, if we, youknow, lord, if we release him,

(47:43):
or father, if we release him,he'll hurt our own kind, he'll
kill our own kind.
And without even looking back,uh, adar just says release him.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Right, right and like all of that was really playing
into what sauron wanted.
Man, like, all all of thosedecisions, like you know, like
adar had become so adamant abouttaking down sauron that he was
willing to, like put all of,like you know, his children in
danger and like.
So that started, you know.

(48:13):
They started to see that likeand the shift was starting to
happen, they started to look athim unfavorably, like you know,
oh, he really doesn't care aboutus and it got him killed in the
end.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
True, it was, of course, you know, like all of
these decisions that adar madethat eventually, you know like,
poisoned the mind of hisfollowers.
That wasn't enough for them toturn on him at the end.
Obviously, sauron's influenceyeah you know that, that evil
spirit that he, you know liketwists within people's minds.

(48:48):
That's clearly what happened,when you know they were like
it's too late and then theystarted attacking adar well,
well, I mean there there is that, but like everything else
leading up to that were openingdoors for that influence to
really like 100, 100 yeah, I, Ithink of um, I don't know if you

(49:08):
ever watched like passion ofthe christ or anything like that
, but there's, there's the scenewhere jesus is being accused by
Pontius Pilate and you have thefigure of Satan walking behind
the crowds just inciting them tohate, hate and hate, and like

(49:28):
hate towards Jesus specifically,and it seemed like that's kind
of the role that Sauron wastaking with Adar's army.
You know, like he wasn'tconscious or he wasn't like
physically telling them you know, you gotta hate this guy, you
gotta kill this guy, but hisjust spirit of malice was
forcing them to mob mentalityagainst the person that they had

(49:50):
lost their faith with.
And I think that that was areally interesting, I guess
transpiring.
I don't know, it wasinteresting too, like I don't
know if you, but they used thesame camera angles, like when
all the orcs were like on top ofAdar as they did at the
beginning of the season whenthey were on top of Sauron
stabbing him crazy.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I wonder.
So this is a very elaborateplan on Sauron's behalf, but he
does demonstrate to have anincredible amount of power and I
wonder if it's like a jedi typemind weakness.
Uh, you know, like you canforce weaker minds?
because, he could have and I'mgranted, in his time in iraq he

(50:31):
could have gained power.
I don't know if he's like santaand elf or he like the more
that believe in him, the morepower he gets.
Because why he didn't?
He wasn't able to completelyconvince gladriel, even through
illusion.
I'm not sure if that's justbecause she's stronger willed.
But then you have her and thenyou also have adar, because he

(50:51):
never tried to.
It would be much simpler if hejust overpowered adar right, and
got him to not, you know, tobelieve in him, to buy into him.
But you know, he ends up kindof flexing his muscle and you
know who knows if.
Celebrimbor is one of theweaker kind of characters and
that's why or I don't know ifwe're just supposed to see that

(51:13):
it's his pride that is so muchmore of a flaw than the other
characters I think that's aninteresting point, like the idea
of pride being a flaw, becausein some ways it can be.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
You know, it can definitely be a crutch for
people and sauron is used to.
You know, as, as we've seenthroughout this the series, he
looks for people's crutches, helooks for what they are trying
to achieve.
Keller brimbor is trying toachieve perfection.
He's trying to achieve purposeand sauron shows up with a
purpose for him.

(51:47):
He shows up with a way toperfect his craft yeah and that
that is him speaking to hispride and that is him letting
sauron into the picture.
Anthony, you mentioned thatit's like opening a door, and
it's almost like opening a doorto a vampire.
Like everyone knows, you're notsupposed to invite the vampire
in, but just opening the doorisn't enough.

(52:07):
You need to, you know, acceptthem into your house for you to
be in danger of the vampire, andthat's basically what's
happening with sauron right here.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
He, he is um coming up to people's doors, he's
showing them what they want andthen they're letting them in,
letting him in, and I think thatthat's such a fascinating um
aspect for the character rightand in galadriel and keller
brimbor they have that exchangewhere you know he gives her the,
the nine rings, and you know hehe's, you know he's upset,

(52:40):
upset, he's distraught about howhe was able to be tricked so
easily.
And you know el galadriel likepretty much it was like you know
, look, I understand, it's likeas soon as you let him in he
takes hold and, yeah, like youopen the door for him, that's it
.
Like he, he can, as soon as hegets to know more about you and

(53:02):
what you, what you need and whatyou're about, he, he's a
chameleon man like he.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
He can shift it so easy I, I really, I feel like we
could make a whole podcastabout just saran alone?
Yeah, saran because he's such afascinating, fascinating
villain.
Um every scene that he's in hesteals um.
I love the, the journey hetakes from halbrand to anatar to

(53:28):
eventually back to sauron.
You know like he eventuallyjust devolves back into.
I gotta get these rings made,dude.
What are you doing?
yeah, yeah, and holding hispeople hostage, pretty much like
hey look, I'll stop the siege,but you got to do this it is
interesting, anthony, youmentioned that um, one of the
rings that they had like createdwe don't know what they use in

(53:52):
the creation of that ring orwhatever maybe they did try his
blood and maybe that is how theygot how she went invisible and
went into the unseen world um,that that could be, that could
be a possibility, I don't know.
I'm excited to see what happensto the, the regs of men, and I
hope they put like three of themon pharazon because like he

(54:12):
needs to go down that three ofthem.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Oh my gosh yeah yeah, yeah um, I I feel like we we've
like talked, you know, quite abit about, you know the, the
siege of aregion, I mean thatthat takes.
I would would say that a lot ofthat takes center stage of this
season, especially towards theend For sure yeah.
But by the end of the seasonNumenor is in complete chaos.

(54:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, so they had basically a stolen election,
right yeah?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
They had a coronation ceremony, they had a queen
ready to take her oaths, andthen an eagle shows up.
And then everyone's just likeyo, farazan, farazan, farazan,
and he like took this good omenof there being an eagle at a
coronation as the opportunity tolike announce himself as king.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
And then we have a whole bunch of nonsense and then
, throughout the season, thequeen just keeps on like,
proving herself like so everytime so.
So alindio was supposed toreceive the judgment of the
valar right and that, yeah, that, um, that pool of water or a
pool of ocean, like it was kindof a closed off space, but the

(55:27):
queen decided to take his hisplace and that scene was really,
really cool.
She gets dragged downunderwater.
I didn't do you know what thename of that creature was?

Speaker 1 (55:36):
I think they called it the sea worm oh, okay but
that's.
That's the same beast thatshowed up early on in the first
season of the show.
I, I believe like it was thesame.
The same like face.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Okay, I didn't know if it was the same, but I mean
she, she survives that instanceand then, like everybody's like
kind of back on the queen sideand then you know, then your boy
, you know he's just, he's justso upset about this stuff that
he just keeps on making up stuff.
Like you know, all all thefaithful they're, they're all

(56:10):
traitors and this person is atraitor and so like they're
trying to kill like offeverybody.
And yeah, elenio's likedaughter was like pissing me off
like the whole season dude,what's wrong with it?

Speaker 1 (56:23):
what's what's wrong with it?
I was.
I was like questioning, likeher loyalty and like, um, like
what her even motive is is, bythe end of the first season,
this season, she's completelygone off the deep end in terms
of just who are you siding with?
Can you not see that this guyis just the worst possible

(56:44):
choice for ruler?
What are you basing you?
I think?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
I think she realizes it in the end yes, she
definitely realizes it and soshe like helps her father escape
.
But like, yeah, she's startingto see, like, okay, this guy's a
little crazy.
So yeah, um, yeah and andsomething that that and and it
kind of ties a little bit backto what Rich was talking about.

(57:09):
You know, like Elendil, likeyou know, maybe him being a king
of Gondor, the queen does sayfor him to reclaim his lordship
and gives him Narsil Dude, likeI was like, oh my gosh, dude,
the sword, it's the sword.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yeah, like I was like oh my gosh, dude the sword it's
the sword.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yeah, I was like the sword that you know.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Eventually, you know it gets shattered and reforged
and goes to, uh, aragorn.
But, dude, like I was, like man, it was so cool to see that
sword man yes, uh, I I also hadthat freak out moment.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
This, the moment the word narsil was was said, I was
just like the blade that wasbroken oh, the line that was
shattered.
Yeah, so I'm looking it up youknow the the power of google is
amazing.
Um, yes, alendio was the firsthigh king of gondor in tolkien's
lore.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
So so so it seems like it's gonna be on track for
that.
Like you know, he's gonna bemaking his way.
I I really do like the thecasting for lindio.
Like he, he does have that verylike honorable like he yeah um,
you know, I I just feel like ingeneral, like a lot of the
casting was really good.
The actor for sauron just likeknocked it out of the park, so

(58:24):
yeah, there's a lot of that.
And then we have, um, you know,we haven't really talked about
I mean, we talked a little bitabout how you know, gandalf he
finally got his name, but youknow they're over in rune.
We have, uh, poppy nori and youknow I call him gandalf.
Now they, they get separatedafter that that whole like

(58:46):
sandstorm, that, that that heconjures up and they meet.
They meet these uh, you know,like they're other, like
halflings, kind of like them,but they live in the hills and
um and they share.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
They share a lineage, you know, there's a clear
breaking off point that we learnabout, where one part of uh,
you know their history spreadsto a nomadic tribe yeah and the
other continues in on thatcanyon that they're, that
they're residing in.
So I thought that was reallycool because, you know,
ultimately hobbits are yearningfor, uh, hillsides that they can

(59:24):
dig into, that they can burrowinto yeah, yeah, and so you know
gandalf is, he's given a choice.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
But for you know, tom tom bombadil like tells him to,
he brings him to a place to tofind his, his gand.
You know his staff his gand andso he's like you know you can
either.
You know you have a choice you,you can.
Either you know is it going tobe destiny or is it going to be
friends.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
And in the end it was really all a test yeah, you
know, tom bombadil like reallyshould have like given him a
hint about that, because thatwas kind of a cruel test.
You know, like you, you willstop being a wizard if you go
for your friends, or you can bethe greatest wizard ever, but
your friends will die.
You know, like you, you willstop being a wizard if you go
for your friends, or you can bethe greatest wizard ever, but
your friends will die.
You know, like it didn't seemthat's not a fair test.

(01:00:14):
It really is not.
Obviously he chose the rightpath because that led him to the
staff that, um, you know, heended up choosing.
So one thing that I I want tolook up I I don't necessarily
understand how certain thingsmatch up so closely to the peter

(01:00:34):
jackson films, but there arecertain designs, whether it be
the staff, whether it be thebalrog, whether it be the door
to kaza doom, they are verysimilar to the, the, their
counterparts in the jacksonfilms.
To my knowledge, those are twoseparate continuities.

(01:00:55):
Obviously, like the rings ofpower show leads into the lord
of the rings.
I'm using, you know, air quoteshere, but the lord of the rings
as we know it in the jacksonfilms isn't the lord of the
rings, lord of the rings in thejackson films isn't the lord of
the rings, lord of the rings inthe book.
So it's like two separatecontinuities that kind of
discuss the same topic um kella.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Brimbor calls him the lord of the rings.
Uh, sauron, yes yeah we, we wedid.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
We did get that, but that's like I do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
I, um, you're talking about the door, the door of
Khazad-dum, where they say theway to open it is the Elvish
word for friend.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Yes, I feel like that was the same one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
It was obviously like nodding to that door, correct?

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
But even like the sorry Rich, even the Balrog was
very, very, very similar to theBalrog of the Lord of the Rings
films, like it was just.
It was almost like a one-to-onedesign.
I don't know if there's likeany variation at all.
Really I don't know if they gotthe rights to use those designs
for this show, if that was likean intent or if there's like a

(01:02:04):
variation on the design that'slike so imperceptible that they
can't be sued or something.
I don't know.
But I thought that was a reallyinteresting thing.
There's so many similarities invisual design to the movies
that it's clearly intentional.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
The Balrog looked amazing.
It looked so good the animationthat they used the cg looked.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
it was crazy I, I think I well.
So I mean, for example, thealamo draft house is playing the
lord of the rings currently,right now, I, I think that a the
jackson camp would be a littleshort-sighted not to allow them
to uh, access everyone's memberberries by showing us narsil, by

(01:02:51):
showing us the balrog in thesame form, by showing us the
door, and then with the doors.
One of my favorite parts is,you know, he says that it will
only be accessible to friends.
Yes, right, and then you know Ilike, I like how they set that
up.
I thought that was great.
The Lord of the Rings mentionwistfully brings me back to one

(01:03:12):
of the greatest movies of alltime, the League of
Extraordinary Gentlemen withSean Connery, and at one point
he goes this league isextraordinary and you know I
just loved when it was like theLord of the Rings, like I just
wish that they would have justflashed to like the just the
kind of movie posters in thatsecond, just to kind of like

(01:03:33):
drive it home a little bit more.
Uh, I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I like where your head's at, I like where your
head's at.
There was a I forget what thename of the twitter account is
at this point, but like maybelike two years ago or whatever,
there was like a movie poster ora movie poster, like a twitter
account where it was.
They kept like fake, quotingthe name of the movie in, like

(01:03:56):
the, the text, the contextualtext of the of the film so like
it'd be like a.
It'd be like a gif of like harrypotter and he just, and it's
just like.
This is just like harry potterand the chamber of secrets or
It looks like the character'ssaying that, but it's not like.
This is just like Harry Potterand the Chamber of Secrets or
something like that it lookslike the character is saying
that, but it's not.
But anyway, anyway, yeah.
So I did chuckle at the Lord ofthe Rings quotes and all that.

(01:04:19):
I thought that was pretty funny.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout the Balrog, because I
think King Durin had a quitenoble end, even though, like it
was, all you know, by his ownmaking.
I guess, obviously he's beingheavily influenced by the ring,
heavily influenced by sauron,who doesn't want the armies of

(01:04:39):
the dwarves to show up on thedoorstep right to stop the
battle.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah, that I was saying the exact thing that you
know.
He noticed that balrog and it'slike okay, you know, like that,
that was a the exact thing thatyou know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
He noticed that balrog and it's like okay, you
know, like that, that was a coolscene too that was a cool scene
where, like he's just like, oh,I just got rejected by the king
, and he turns his head and helike looks into the fire.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
And he's just like, oh, there's a balrog down there,
let me get that yeah I mean I Iguess nothing will sober up her
mind like a Balrog Cause, likeyou know, he started, he took
the ring off after that.
You know, like I mean, that wascrazy dude.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
That was such a cool scene, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
There's a lot of cool scenes in this show, but that
one where he's just like I'mjust going to full send charge
at this like ancient demon ofdarkness and see what happens
demon of darkness and see whathappens.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, man, I'll rock a morgoth man it.
Yeah, that was really cool andit was like a really nice moment
of reconciliation betweenprince and king.
And you know, yes, and prettymuch passing the baton, like you
know to, and calling his sonking durin, and yeah, it was, it
was nice.
Like you know, he was saying hewas talking about, uh, prince

(01:05:54):
durin was talking about how theywould arm wrestle and that his
father would like kind of lethim, you know, linger a little
bit before slamming him down andhe was like that wasn't me
letting you do it, that was justyou getting stronger, just like
you are now, and I really liked, I really liked that moment
that they had.

(01:06:14):
I really really liked like Iloved the dwarves, like like
even the first and second season, like I just felt like their
scenes were so good and thechemistry between durin and disa
were amazing, like they werebelievable that they were a
married couple and that theyreally they respected each other
.
They would bump heads sometimes, but they really respected each

(01:06:37):
other in the end of the day.
But they had such strongcharacters and I really enjoyed
them.
Every time I saw them on screenI was like happy to see them
yeah, those two actorsspecifically had such excellent
chemistry.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Whenever they're on the screen, you know it's going
to be something that you'regoing to think about for the
next couple hours.
They just hold such weight inthat room.
So, really quick, we shouldreally talk a little bit about
Rune and uh gandalf and tombombadil.
We know that uh tom bombadilgives him the ultimatum of

(01:07:12):
friends or destiny, and hechooses friends plus destiny.
We don't know that until theend, but, um, you know he
chooses friends and ultimatelythis plays into the dark
wizard's hands and we find outthat the dark Wizard is one of
the five Istar.
That includes Gandalf, thatincludes Saruman, that includes

(01:07:33):
Radagast, and there's anotherblue wizard somewhere out there,
so there's two blue wizards.
This is one of the unnamedwizards.
It's interesting that they'renot giving the character a name.
I feel like maybe they willgoing forward, because he's
clearly not done.
He's clearly still in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
What are we going to do if we don't have a whole
season dedicated to figuring outsomeone's damn name?
I mean, it wouldn't be theRings of Power.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I was very confused when Annatar showed up.
I'm like wait, lord of Gifts, Idon't buy this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
I mean, I think they even kind of hid the joke in the
show because Merrimackapparently doesn't find out his
name is Merrimack until about ayear and a half before we meet
him, and he seems to be at least17.
So you know, for 15 and a halfyears they were calling him
nobody, and I think it's justbecause they're like oh yeah,
you know, there's nobody withthe long beard, nobody with the

(01:08:27):
blonde hair in the water, andnow there's nobody with a beard
in the desert.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
How do you guys feel about the I kind of feel it was
like randomly sprung on but theromance between Merrimack and
Poppy.
What are you guys' thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
I do like that moment when they kiss and she asks
like did you eat lizard forsupper?

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
moment when they kiss and she asks like did you eat
lizard for supper?
Oh, that was disgusting because, like I can't, I obviously
can't like picture the smell oflizard or taste of lizard, but I
I can understand, like you know, sense remaining on someone
during intimacy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
So yeah, that's interesting but, I mean um her
poppy leaves with that group.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
And so does Nori, doesn't she?

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah, I think Nori and Poppy kind of, I think they
take the reins of that group alittle bit because they know
what it is to move and benomadic.
That group really doesn't.
So I'm assuming that they'regoing to kind of teach him how
to do that.
And that was interestingbecause, you know, I thought

(01:09:32):
that we would at least have Norifor another season.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
We might still, she might show up like you think I'd
leave you.
You didn't get very far.
Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
No, but it's.
We did have Poppy.
Do the same, don't you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
know that this song that I've been singing for the
past couple seasons talks aboutexactly what's happening right
now.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Poppy, yeah, Poppy did that right At the beginning
of this season.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what she did.
So who knows?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
These extended goodbyes could just be like a
big fake out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Yeah, but how do you guys feel about her leaving
gandalf?
Like was there amplejustification for that?
Obviously, like everything thatgandalf touches seems to you
know he brings destructionwherever he goes.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
yeah, I I think that that she realizes that he's
really now at the, at this point, where he's, yeah, like his
path is he's going down a paththat she really can't follow.
You know, she was a lot of itwas helping him because he
didn't really, you know, hewasn't having, he didn't really

(01:10:39):
have control over his powers, hedidn't know who he was.
Now he kind of like knew who hewas.
You saw how, how they kind oflike led, like how they like did
his name.
They called him grand elf andit was like that was super close
to.
Gandalf.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
So so I was like okay, theykept doing that Cause, like with
, with the, the staff beingcalled the Gans.
Yeah, called the gans.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
yeah, um yeah and so, yeah, I, I, I think that that
she had a justification.
I mean, yeah, he's, he's, he'sdangerous, he's dangerous,
although I mean caring.
But you know, he's just, he's abeing, he's a whole other being
, from a different plane ofexistence excellent way to put
it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Yeah, like he literally does not belong in
this mortal plane.
So the fact that he does existand is causing such chaos,
literally, seemingly everysingle day, um, like, literally,
like a week ago, they, they gotsent up in a tornado, uh, that
he created like a sandstormtornado so I I totally get it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
You know, like if you need a break, you need a break
I like how he ends with himtalking to tom and and saying
they're going to call me gandalf, aren't they?

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
yeah, I thought that was interesting because it
almost harkens back to when hebecomes gandalf the white and
they call him gandalf and he'sjust like Gandalf that's what
they used to call me.
You know, it's almost likethere's a barrier between when
he gets his name to when heneeds to regain it after he

(01:12:21):
becomes the White Wizard, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
At least he doesn't have.
Well, I mean, at least we don'tknow, because you know I was
gonna say like well, at least ithe didn't have to go through
this like whole period of likefiguring everything out again.
But we don't know because youknow, by the time we get to him
he's already at.
You know gandalf the white.
So you know this is probablylike a glimpse of like what

(01:12:47):
happens after he kind of, Iguess, reincarnates or whatever
gets sent from wherever,whatever plane he was at, to,
you know, middle Earth.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
I think next season we need a whole arc on him
figuring out what his color is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
Am I?
Am I Gandalf, the Red Gandalf,the Pink Gandalf, the pink
gandalf, the gray, no too boringit's a gold.
It's a goalie locks thing oflike black too dark, white too
bright, gray, just right nextseason is going to be him
getting his outfit and thenpicking up the pipe he needs

(01:13:26):
that pipe yes yeah, anotherthing too.
Like is the the staff looks likethe staff that he has in.
Like, besides that, likethere's like a little crystal
that he has in the staff.
The actual formation of thestaff looks like the formation
of the staff that he has in thelord of the rings yes so, uh,
yeah, rich, you might be rightwhere they, you know, they, they

(01:13:47):
, you know, obviously talked,talked to the Jackson camp.
They were just like hey, pleaselet us use some of the rights to
some of these designs so thatwe can have a cohesive project.
Obviously, we're not trading onany of your shoes.
You're not trading on any ofours.
Hopefully, we can make thiswork, you know, and I think
that's what ultimately happened.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Yeah, I mean the synergy is, you know, you don't
want to have a Sony situation,so you have to watch Morbius or
So I think this like littlekind of agreement and it's not.
You know, I think it'sadvantageous for both camps,
Right, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
I think so yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
I've definitely rewatched the Hobbit and the
Lord of the Rings movies,numerous like I don't want to
tell you guys how many timesI've rewatched them since the
first season of Rings of Power,like I watched them before Rings
of Power, then I watched Ringsof Power, then I watched them
again, then I watched them again, then I watched them in
preparation, like they've beengetting a lot of extra views

(01:14:46):
from me alone because I justneed to like cross reference, I
need to watch something again, Ineed to double check
information.
You know, it's just.
I think it's smart, it it tiesthem together and hopefully
there will be at some point.
You know, I'm sure you knowbezos.
You know it was reallydifficult for him to somehow
come up with a lucrative offerto uhudge the Jackson camp in

(01:15:10):
the direction of allowing themto use that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Yeah, it must have been very difficult with his
notoriously, you know, emptypockets.
I mean, don't even pay forshipping, you know guys, I think
I think that brings ourdiscussion of the Rings of Power
to a close.
Anthony, do you have any finalthoughts on these last four

(01:15:32):
episodes?
Slash the entirety of the Ringsof Power.
What are your thoughts now?

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Well, oh yeah, one last thing we didn't even talk
too much about.
Just one last thought Isildur,it seems like he's heading off
back to Numenor, not reallyknowing what he's heading back
off to and that little romancethat he was having with.
Estrid seems to be done withbecause of.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Well, the guy's still there.
Yeah, it was a really awkwardlike kind of goodbye, like
there's a moment where, like, heinvites her to numenor in front
yes, that was super awkward shejust they all just kind of like
look at him and then like hegrabs her hand and then like,
yeah, it's, it's awkward, Idon't want to well, to be fair,

(01:16:25):
that vixen came into his likelittle seaside shanty and she
professed her love for him andhe said why are you telling me
this?
and then she kind of jumped hisbones like he was the ceo
shooter jumped his bones like hewas yes, I, I totally agree,
rich.
I I saw exactly what you saw.
But yeah, I thought that wasawkward too.

(01:16:48):
I'm excited to see what happenswhen he gets back to numenor,
because I cannot wait for hissister, a r a r a n, who's based
her entire political career onthe fact that her brother died
supposedly in middle earth, tosee that her brother's alive
just to be crushed.
I just want to see her, hersister's, you know, soul crushed

(01:17:08):
before coming to the light, youknow, like that's.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
That's all I want to see also, why is she not upset
about her other brother that wenever see like she's okay with
this attack on the faithful andher brother is off on like some
pilgrimage, I believe, on thewestern side of numenor.
So we have two brothers comingup.
We're going to have Durin'sbrother showing up and we're
gonna have, hopefully, isildurand her brother showing up the

(01:17:33):
other brother's gonna show uplike what the heck happened,
brothers galore.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Galadriel's brother's gonna come in like psych still
oh yeah, um that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
That's like another thing that we missed also
Galadriel.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Galadriel had like a final showdown with Sauron.
I'm glad to hear a good, heartylaugh out of Rich on that one.
Yeah, dude, so much happens inthese episodes, so much to talk
about and he ends up with thenine yeah, sauron has the nine
rings.
Like what is he gonna do withthem?
Where does where is he going?

(01:18:12):
Does he bring one to tombombadil just for him to be like
I don't want?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
that uh, oh well, and then you know, now he has the
backing of, he has an army, nowsauron now has an army, he's
probably going right back toMordor.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Yeah, a lot to look forward to in a couple years,
hopefully, if they ever make athird season of this.
I hope they do, obviously theywill.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
I think Jeff's got the pockets.
We'll see the whole thing seenthrough yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
I like to believe that this show is Beos's uh
passion project.
You know, like he, he, hereally wants specifically this
story told.
So I, I, I'm, I'm hopeful thatwe'll see it through to fruition
yeah, but yeah, but yeah likeI'll say last thoughts, both of
these seasons were really good.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
If you're a Lord of the Rings fan and you heard bad
things about Rings of Power, Isay give them a chance yourself,
formulate your own opinion.
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
I want to jump on that point because I purposely,
since the Acolyolyte, have beenstraying from watching shows on
a weekly basis, just not becauseI didn't like the acolyte, just
because I didn't like theoverall online attitude and

(01:19:43):
conversation surrounding theacolyte.
So I didn't watch rings ofpower, uh, as it was coming out.
I didn't watch, uh, agatha allalong.
I still haven't watched agathaall along.
I haven't, I didn't, you know,watch the penguin as it was
coming out, like I was just likeburnt out on just the weekly
structure of shows.
So I didn't really give it, uh,a chance when it was coming out

(01:20:04):
again, obviously.
But uh, one thing I rememberseeing online was that, you know
, a lot of people were takingumbrage at the fact that there's
a scene where an orc has afamily and a child and it's, you
know, it's like showing toomuch sympathy for the orcs, but
really it's a.
It's a five second scene max,you know, and it's just like a.

(01:20:27):
It's a one-off shot andobviously, like, this makes
sense for the orcs.
Obviously they don't just popout of the mud like we see in
lord of the rings.
That that's a very specifictype of work.
So I didn't.
Really I'm confused at thevitriol that people just seem to
throw at things these days, Iguess.
So I'm I'm I'm happy toannounce um, as someone who is,

(01:20:50):
I would say, fairly critical ofcertain things you know like
reasonable things, I feel likeI'm a very reasonable critic.
I'm happy to say that this, thesecond season, uh, really blew
me away yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
I think I think what's great about the series
for me is I honestly, I said itthe whole time I believe that
once you've seen the secondseason because so many
characters become so much morelikable a Sildor makes so much
more sense.
Theo is just like an annoyingteenager in this first season

(01:21:23):
and then, like his mom, randomlydies, but he becomes so much
better, I think, an interestingwith his relationship with
Isildur.
I think that even even hissister becomes slightly more
interesting when we see herfinally see what's going on with
her father and she brings thequeen and everything's there.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
I agree yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
Halbrand?
Did Halbrand enchant thecreature to make sure to spit
Muriel out to create a furtherdivide in Numenor?
Did he see that coming?
Was that even a thing?
There's so many things now thatyou can look back and wonder
what was at play.
And I think it's weird becauseit's a weird bit of storytelling

(01:22:08):
where, if this were a George RR Martin book, where you had the
POV scenes right and then bythe end things are happening
concurrently, you find out moreI think it works so much better.
It's almost like by.
Obviously it came from a book,that's the source material, but
there's something to be saidabout, like the medium of

(01:22:31):
television that doesn'tperfectly fit it.
And then by the end of seasontwo, I think, now that you have
all this extra information, itbecomes so much better.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
I will jumping onto what you said.
I do not believe that Sauronhad anything to do with Miriel's
saving in that scene.
If their religion is stemmedoff of the Valar and their
belief as the faithful ofNumenor, I don't think he
necessarily has anything to dowith just creatures and places

(01:23:08):
as a whole got it outside of hisinitial plan for them, you know
.
So I think this was actuallylike she was proven innocent in
front of the valor sort of thing.
You know, that's that's mytakeaway from what I saw.
I, I don't have any like bookknowledge to you know, back that
up, that's just from what I saw, yeah.

(01:23:29):
But yeah, I love that kind ofstuff.
I, I, I really enjoyed thisseason.
Um guys, thank you so much forlistening to us here for our
103rd episode of projectgeekology.
Uh, next week we're going to becovering not rings of power,
but you know it's going to beadjacent to it.
We're going to be talking aboutthe War of the Rohirrim, which

(01:23:50):
is an animated project thatconnects to the original trilogy
of Lord of the Rings films.
I think it occurs 183 yearsbefore the Lord of the Rings
trilogy.
So very exciting stuffhappening in the Peter Jackson
camp.
I don't think it's directed byPeter Jackson, but he's one of
the producers on that.
Be here next week for episode104.

(01:24:12):
As we discuss that, rich isjoining us again, thankfully.
We love his insight here and,you know, hopefully more Mets
stuff happens that he can, youknow, gush about in the coming
weeks If you want to check outour socials.
Check out our show notes.
Down below, wherever you'relistening to your podcast,
you'll find our location onTwitter, on Instagram and so on,

(01:24:34):
so that you can follow us moreclosely For upcoming episode
details as well as personalprojects that we're working on.
Thank you so much.
We will talk to you next week.
Bye, bye y'all.
Namarie.

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The Rings of Power - Season 2, Part 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Rings of Power - Season 2, Part 2