A Journey of Resilience: From Combat to Canines

In this compelling episode of Project Sapient, we dive into the incredible story of Elisha Perkins, a former police officer and U.S. Army veteran. Despite facing immense challenges, including severe injuries from an IED blast in Afghanistan and a battle with cancer, Alicia has persevered with remarkable resilience.

Host Ayman talks with Elisha about her journey from serving in the St. Pete Police Department to her deployments in Afghanistan, where she faced life-threatening injuries. Elisha shares her experiences of overcoming physical and emotional trauma, including her determination to walk again after being told she might never do so.

Discover how Elisha found a new mission by founding Pop Smoke K9s for Veterans, a nonprofit organization that trains service dogs for veterans and first responders. Learn about these dogs' rigorous training process and how they have become lifesavers for many veterans.

Elisha's story is a testament to the power of resilience, the importance of finding purpose, and the impact of service dogs on veterans' lives. Tune in to be inspired by her journey and gain valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of life after service.

For more information and to support Elisha's mission, visit the links in the show notes.

SHOW NOTES

Website: Pop Smoke k9 for Veterans | service dogs for veterans

Our mission is to help stop veteran suicides by providing veterans with PTSD, TBI, and MST with a well-trained service dog to help them live a more productive life after the military.

Email: [e-mail]

Supporters:

Police Supply Store | Law Enforcement Supplies (aaapolicesupply.com)

Use HYBRID10 for a discount on your entire order

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The Havok Journal • The Voice of the Veteran Community

The Havok Journal serves as the Voice of the Veteran Community through a focus on current affairs and articles of interest to the public in general, and the veteran community in particular. We strive to offer timely, current, and informative content, with the occasional piece focused on entertainment. We are continually expanding and striving to improve the readers’ experience.

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Home - The Second Mission Foundation

The Second Mission Foundation is a non-profit organization that exists to educate, elevate, and advocate for members of America’s Service Community in order to help them find their “second mission” after government service.

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Visit Project Sapient's Website for announcements, training opportunities, and SWAG:

Project Sapient

Email: [e-mail]

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Home - 22Mohawks

To us, the mohawk represents the outlier – the person who is not afraid to go against the grain, rise up for what they believe in, and above all, stand tall in the face of adversity. Veterans, First Responders and those who support them embody the mohawk. When you get a mohawk in support of veteran and first responder suicide prevention, you become a part of a movement that is greater than oneself. 

22Mohawks is proud to provide assistance to veterans and first responders who need help with navigating the struggles of everyday life.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Project Sapient is a podcast meant to engage our brothers and sisters in the
law enforcement and military communities in conversations that we all know we need to have.
All opinions you hear are our own, and they are protected by the First Amendment
of the United States Constitution.
They are in no way reflect or meant to reflect the opinion of any specific agency,
officer, or service member.
Some opinions may be controversial. Listener discretion is advised. Enjoy.

(00:28):
Music.
Electric guitar solo,
electric guitar solo,

(01:03):
We'll be right back. Hey everyone, welcome back to another great episode of Project Sapient.
It's been awesome.
Jake's not around today.
He's moving his entire gym to another location. So he's basically working out
all day today, I'll call it.
So he's got his work cut out for him. But, you know, it's one of these episodes

(01:29):
that I would say, you know, we wouldn't be able to do these types of episodes
if it wasn't for our sponsors, supporters, you know, like AAA Police Supply.
Head over there for all your police needs, whether it's plain clothes,
uniform, whatever you want, they have over there.
And make sure you head to AAApolice.com and type in HYBRID10 to get 10% off

(01:49):
your entire purchase order.
And, you know.
Havoc Journal, obviously, I'm a writer for Havoc Journal, and the type of news
and the articles that are featured there are really, you know,
they're great, they're awesome.
Not just because I'm a writer there, but it's because, you know,
I was drawn to Havoc Journal early, early on in the early stages when they started.

(02:11):
And, you know, talks really down to earth from veterans to first responders
and anybody else that has, you know, great articulation in talking about whatever
they want to talk about, whether it's issues or, you know, props or anything like that.
And then, obviously, Second Mission Foundation, who has helped this podcast
really take off, as well as publishing my book, The Resolute Path,

(02:35):
through the Second Mission Foundation.
And they're all about helping veterans find their second mission,
especially after service.
So without further ado, if you guys remember a couple episodes back, we had Matt Williams on.
Incredible episode about him, life after service. and he referred us to another
veteran who also found life after service, found her second mission,

(03:00):
her second purpose, so to speak.
And in Matt's style, he just, yeah, you meet Alicia, meet Ayman,
Ayman meet Alicia, and here you go. I'm like, oh, all right,
cool, we're doing this, I guess.
So without further ado, Alicia, welcome to the show.

(03:20):
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for being here. And, you know, so give you guys,
our listeners, quick background on Alicia Perkins.
So Alicia was actually a police officer back even actually, we'll say 2006,
2000, yeah, 2005, 2006 timeframe on St.
Pete Police Department. She was there for three years and then was unfortunately

(03:43):
laid off during the 2008 economic collapse, which we know a lot of police departments
were laying off, you know, a lot of police officers as a result.
So after three years at St. Pete Police Department, once she got laid off,
she decided to join the U.S.
Army. And, you know, her story just serving in the U.S.
Army, I mean, she was deployed to Afghanistan and her vehicle exploded in an

(04:05):
IED blast, killing everyone else in the vehicle and shattering her pelvis,
femurs, knees, and one tibia. you.
And so today, despite currently undergoing chemotherapy for cancer,
she donates her time training service dogs for other veterans with PTSD at the nonprofit she founded.
And this nonprofit's called Pop Smoke Canines for Veterans.

(04:30):
You could totally tell this is a veteran organization, especially when you hear
Pop Smoke. You're like, oh yeah, that's definitely a veteran organization.
And so it's really, again, it's one of those things where you're like, You...
We've all had friends and fellow veterans who've, you know, unfortunately died
with IED blasts and stuff like that.

(04:52):
I was unfortunately at, you know, during my deployment, Sergeant Allers,
he got killed during an IED blast and we were the backup unit.
You know, when we heard the scream on the Singars, you know,
that's obviously something you never forget.
And, you know, we raced down to go rescue them.
And, man, talk about, you know, and you never forget the chaos, you know.

(05:14):
Know and the sounds and everything and you
know with with alicia being on here it's
always an honor to see a veteran who came back from that kind of full force
and and you know to tell her story and the story how she basically persevered
through a lot of stuff and as matt described you You're basically like RoboCop,

(05:38):
I think he said, he described you as.
But Alicia, so yeah, I want to kind of, I mean, there's so much,
so many questions and so many points to discuss.
And I mean, why don't we go back to when you first started your whole career,
essentially, in public service, we'll call it, you know, starting with St.

(06:00):
Pete PD. and and was that something you've always wanted to do to become a police officer and to serve and
all of that absolutely i i didn't
know it was until i got into it and like the love
of it it just fit for me like it
just seemed like home you know all the other careers and
stuff that i tried since college and stuff just it just

(06:22):
didn't speak to me but you could sell it just seemed natural for
me just to go right into that environment yeah yeah i
loved being a cop it was a it was a hard pill to swallow
to leave it and so i had to look
for something else very similar to that
to kind of on a career you know and so that's what got me into the military
at that point but yeah i love being a cop i'd do it today if i wasn't half metal

(06:46):
so yeah i mean i mean you know it's it's it's always interesting for me to hear
from people that you know unfortunately will cut short on the job,
whether it's through injury or being laid off because economy and whatever else.
And you always find that they're always yearning for that brotherhood slash

(07:07):
sisterhood, that sort of camaraderie that is found within that profession.
And yeah, obviously the military is like the next best thing for that sort of
feeling is that feeling of being part of something bigger than yourself.
So when did you officially join and go to BASIC?
Oh, eight. Oh, eight. Okay. All right. So, so basically right after you got

(07:30):
laid off, you, you went ahead and, oh, okay.
I'm not a person that sits around very easily.
I think that's called ADD.
Yeah. So, so it's, it's, so what MOS ended, you ended up going into?
So I'd say I went in as a 25 uniform and I did that for a little over a year.

(07:55):
And then I went the, I did the green, the gold, cause I, I went in with the bachelor's degree.
So I was able to get the green gold the year after, but I wanted to,
to earn my time a little bit and do the enlisted thing for a while.
That way you get a lot more respect doing that than, than just coming in as
an officer and pissing a lot of people off.
So, you know, I wanted to be able to do it and make sure I knew,

(08:16):
you know, everything that I was doing, going to be doing and that kind of stuff.
And and so I went that route and
then after that I got to actually I ranked
high enough in the green the gold so I could still stay in my MLS so I was able
to still continue doing the the Como 25 uniform okay well so that went really
good and and that got me stationed out and good old Kansas don't tell me the dreaded is that for poke,

(08:45):
No, it's Fort Riley. Fort Riley. Port Guisland. Yeah, Louisiana.
Okay. Same difference, I guess.
They're both black places. You just keep flying over. Yeah, yeah. Stop.
How long were you stationed in good old Riley? Yeah, I was there until my very end. So I got out.

(09:05):
So I was there for, I guess, three years. Three years at the end.
Three or four years at the end. Okay.
And when did you go to Afghanistan?
I went to Afghanistan three different times, actually, in that time period.
Oh, okay. Yeah. So my third time was when the IED was there.
And then after the IED, they medically retired me out at that point.

(09:27):
Gotcha. So I take it after the IED, you went to Germany. Did you end up at Walter Reed at all?
Or is that pretty much kind of the trajectory you went?
Yeah. I was out in Germany for almost eight months before they sent me back.
Okay and then they sent me back to riley and i finished having
the rest of my surgeries there i never went

(09:48):
to surgery oh okay all right so i
mean i know again there's something so
minor compared to yours but during you know
one of our ops i ended up tearing my mcl and you know obviously had knee pain
and they wanted me oh yeah you know we could send you to germany and at the
time i still have like three more months left to my deployment i'm like fuck

(10:10):
that i'm not going anywhere because you know you're like i'm with my guys you
know i'm not i'm not gonna just,
go you know just like that but but i'm sure with yours obviously severe severe
injuries you know severely wounded were you still in contact with anyone in
your in your obviously with the unit.
It was, it was a few months after, um, that I actually found before I found

(10:34):
out that I lost everybody in the truck. Oh Jesus.
They didn't tell me that right away. Yeah. And I couldn't get back to the truck.
It actually like, um, it shot me through the turn.
So I was about 500 feet from my truck. Yeah. That's actually what saved my life
was being, you know, ejected through the turn.
But, okay. So I had no idea that nobody else made it until a couple months into

(10:57):
where they got me to where I was really stable enough.
I think I'd had at that point three of the surgeries. And each one of my surgeries
ended up being like one was like 12 hours long and there was another one that
was like nine hours long.
Just trying to seal the pelvis area back together and make it all work the right way.

(11:18):
Once they kind of got that figured out that I was actually going to survive
this thing that's when they decided to lay the bad news on me at that point,
I was in Germany for another.
But I had 7 of my surgeries in Germany before they sent me back to be able to

(11:38):
get the rest of it how many surgeries did you have to go through?
13 wow Okay. Wow. All right. So, so, and you had eight of them in Germany and then the rest back home?
Yeah. Seven in Germany and the rest of them back, back at home.
When I was in Kansas, they gave me like five more. And then when I got out,

(11:58):
I had two more after that. Okay.
Just about, I think two more, one more or two. Is that when they medically retired
you like during that whole process? Yeah.
As soon as I got back to Kansas, they were already starting it.
It's almost like they were just waiting for me to get there.
They're like, here's your paperwork.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, it's kind of like a cold way to do it,

(12:20):
but I don't know how else they would do it. You know?
Yeah. You know, especially after. My goal.
Yeah. The trauma and the, you know, all that is still fresh in your head.
Yet, you know, they give you the paperwork like, all right, well, see you.
You know, just, I mean, I'm sure it felt that way.
I mean, the, now in terms of your support that you had while you were going

(12:45):
through, was it, was it all VA involved or was it army?
How, how, how did that dynamic work?
Yeah, so after the military, I went right into the VA to start scheduling the
other surgeries and that kind of thing.
The VA actually did do all of my surgeries for that, and I just kept pushing for it. Okay.

(13:07):
Because I wasn't going to, you know, first they would tell me I'm going to be
in a wheelchair the rest of my life.
I just wasn't, that's not something I wanted. I was in my 30s, you
know late 30s and i mean i just i did
it's not what i wanted for myself i i didn't i
went to the mall one time in a wheelchair and had somebody
come up to me and said why are you in that you
don't need to be in that yeah wow i'm like but yeah and i was like so i know

(13:34):
i don't want this to be the rest of my life because i can't stand it when you
know people come up to me i'm not very good with people let's say so i definitely
didn't really want that yeah the rest of my life.
So I was like, I'm just going to keep pushing one surgery after another so I
can get it to where I can do this thing.
And I just need a little bit of hope. Just keep pushing, pushing and pushing.

(13:56):
And 13 come around and I finally got to the point.
The 13th one was a knee replacement to connect the metal tibia and everything
together, and it just worked.
And that was enough to get me to where I could use a cane.
I used a walker for a long, long time until I could gain some strength back in my lower half.

(14:16):
And then after that, I was able to do it without that.
Wow. wow so so that's that's kind of
the the stories that we we all love as as
veterans who you know understand and
get the drive right to get that you
know that that drive is it's to me it's it's really
telling when you know someone tells you oh you're never going to walk again

(14:38):
and you're like yeah fuck you watch me you know and there's some you know it's
it's that you know it's i always you know get fascinated by it because you know
we we all have it where you know from the most minor of injuries that we all
know fellow veterans that they're like, oh, fuck that.
I could have a broken pinky, and I'm still going to run through, do whatever.
Or get built like RoboCop and still be like, yeah, no, I'm going to walk and just watch me.

(15:04):
And that's the perseverance and the resilience that I love highlighting a lot
and really to showcase and to talk about.
Because it's a different mindset to have that.
And I'm sure in you, you were just like, yeah, fuck that. Yeah, fuck you. I hate people.
And I don't want anyone to look at me like that when I'm in a wheelchair.

(15:27):
So whatever that mindset is, whatever that mindset is that drove you essentially
to be able to walk on your own is just a remarkable thing.
So once they hooked up your tibia to your knee and all that,
when did you do start learning how to walk again?

(15:49):
So after that surgery, once they, they really kicked that in,
I'm actually within 24 hours, they had me in therapy. Oh, okay.
Extensive therapy. So I was, you know, most after surgeries,
it's usually like once a week.
I actually had therapy five days a week and I was pushing myself and they would
hook me to a track in the ceiling and that's how they would move me around at

(16:12):
therapy yeah and that just having,
taken that little bit of weight off me actually helped me learn to figure things
out again like to get the legs moving they would move my legs for me for a long
time you know it was months of just,
barely taking an inch or a step and you know i took one step and it was like
a mirror you know and then a couple weeks later i'd take a couple more on my

(16:36):
own you know it's just it just took a long time to get the strength there and
you know it took years to have all these surgeries so,
the strength was literally nothing you know yeah and so i mean how many years
were the surgery like they lasted like how so 2008 so how long would i mean
how many years did you go through surgeries before you actually were able to

(16:56):
start learning how to walk again,
10,000, I'd say it was about almost 2015 when I was walking.
Okay, so you're talking close to a decade of not walking and then learning how
to walk again. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah, that's... That was the time of my work. I'm telling you,

(17:18):
I was hard-headed, stubborn, and I was not going to give in to it.
Oh, hell yeah. I mean, that's... It's not...
Yeah, that's the thing. It's not that, you know, just, you know,
looking on the outside and, and seeing,
you know, like hearing about your story and again, some others,
it's, it's like, it's like that determination we all have that,
or, you know, each individual has that literally pushes them no matter what.

(17:43):
But, and I recall years ago when I first met my wife, you know,
one of the things she always described me as is just determined.
Like, I think it's more stubbornness than determination where I'm like,
yeah, fuck that. You know, I'm not giving up, whatever.
And, you know, my wife, you know, she calls it, you know, again, determination.
And I'm like, you know, it could be just more stubbornness more than anything else.

(18:06):
But, you know, whatever you want to call it, though, that right there basically
forced you or you forced yourself not to accept that end result of never walking again, right?
No matter how many – I mean, I'm sure in your head you went,
no matter how many years it's going to take me, I'm going to be walking again.

(18:28):
Was that something kind of went through your mind?
Oh, yeah. That's all I thought about. Yeah. I worked. That's all I did.
I didn't have a job. Like they retired me. So this was, this was what I was doing. Right.
This kind of blast, this IED took a lot from me.
And the one thing I wasn't going to let it take from me was my legs,

(18:48):
the use of them. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. I mean, that's again, that determined it. But so when you started walking,
I mean, well, you obviously it's probably not long distances, right?
You were just doing one step at a time, get yourself set up and just reset.
And even I'm sure, I think you said at one point, like just doing one step was that big deal for you.

(19:13):
Like, hell yeah, you know, on my way. Yeah.
Yeah. Like this is possible. Like there's a lot of times, a lot of surgeries
that went by and I'm like, this is not going to happen for me.
You know, I'm just going to have to accept where I'm at and just let that be that.
And I probably did that for like a month or two after a surgery and just like,

(19:33):
it didn't seem like I was ever going to get there.
You know, the low points, you know, you get there, the low, the depression,
it puts you in and just, you get tired of fighting sometimes.
Times and then I don't know something comes around and
you get your shit together you know and you're like
man I just want to keep putting one foot in front of the other literally that's
all I wanted to do and and I just dug a little deeper into my soul honestly

(19:57):
like I pushed the desire just not to accept what everybody was saying to me
you know was really what kept me going yeah you know I I did it for my family,
but I did it for me because it's just not a life that I wanted for myself.
I don't want to be in a wheelchair and have to depend on that before it's my time to be in that.

(20:20):
I'm in my 30s. It's just not a life of somebody in their 30s for me.
That's my mentality of it. I was an athlete.
I was a D1 athlete all my life. I rode motorcycles.
I did all kinds of stuff. Jumped out of planes. I loved it all.
All those things. I couldn't do it more, you know? Yeah.
I just wanted to be able to walk. Yeah. Simply that, you know?

(20:43):
And I was going to figure that out.
I didn't know if I was going to have to finally come to the point where I was
going to be like, that's it.
You can cut them off and just give me some legs because I'm going to walk one
way or another, you know. Yeah.
And that was going to be my final thing. Like if they couldn't do it after I
don't know how many surgeries, then I was going to be like, okay,
well, it's time, you know. Yeah.

(21:04):
Because I wanted to walk. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. Your story kind of reminds me of that kind of like in the movies where,
you know, the actor, actress or they're like, you know, broken on the waist
down and then they wiggle their big toe all of a sudden. And they're like,
fuck, you know, you know, fuck that.
I was never going to, you know, I told you I was going to walk again,
you know, type type of thing.

(21:26):
But, you know, it's real, though, you know, those things are real,
like those things really happen. And I mean, you know, you're, you're an example of it.
There's some other phenomenal veterans out there that actually,
I forget the name of the veteran where he went back as a green beret,
you know, even with one leg, you know, blown off.
He's still doing his thing. There's even stories of police officers out there
that had to lose a leg or something.

(21:47):
And they're still out there doing the job because they just,
it's just that mentality that they have.
Have that determination that they have is that again like like you you know
fuck that i'm not i'm not gonna let this define my life i'm gonna push on you
know and and kind of now moving forward.
And for you like to me it's like you got all the decks are like stacked against

(22:11):
you because all of a sudden now i you know cancer hit you and it's like first
time i had breast cancer i mean okay first time it was okay and how long ago was that that?
I think it's been almost four years now. Okay. I think three years,
three or four years, what year we in.
Yeah, so three or four years it's been since that one came about.

(22:31):
And that one was fairly, I hate to say easy compared to this one, but it was a lot easier.
So they found it, I had to do a couple rounds of chemo and some radiation and
then they removed it. Then I had to do a couple more rounds of radiation.
And then I was considered cancer free, but you
have to go that span band of the seven years in
order for you to really be cancer-free yeah not even quite

(22:53):
make it you know before this round
you know getting pulling gates you know okay
and and that's what you're currently working on right now
is colon cancer yeah so it's yeah it's just again like you know you you you
start walking and you're walking and then you know a couple years later you

(23:13):
get breast cancer and then you defeat that we'll say and now i mean when did
you get diagnosed with colon cancer.
It's not even been a it's been about a year now it was about the same time that i,
had a divorce so that's that's about that time
that time it was a lot of shit all at once

(23:34):
yeah more shit can i take yeah um god
again it's like just one thing after another after another with you yet you
know i mean so you're currently battling colon cancer i know matt told me you
were undergoing chemo i think oh no you told me you were undergoing chemo this
week this past week So that's why we scheduled the podcast a couple of days later for you to rest up.

(23:57):
And to me, it still amazes me the stuff that you're doing, even undergoing the
chemo and even doing what you do now, just like with the service dogs,
the foundation you started. When did you start this foundation?
Back in 2023. That's when I got it up and going.
So it's not been up and going that often. so did you start around the same time

(24:21):
you got diagnosed with colon cancer or was it before,
it was before that it was before that okay i know before that i know you told
me the story of of how and why you started the service animal you know doing
service dog so i'm going to have our listeners listen to the story of how how
you just kind of jumped right into it so yeah i'll ask i I mean,
how and why did you start the Service Star Foundation?

(24:46):
So I was a mental disaster throughout, you know, since I got out of the military.
You know, when you get out, you're like in denial of a lot of things.
Yeah. Like, yeah, you may have seen a lot, been through a lot,
but you just want to get out and just live and enjoy some of the things,
I guess, that you didn't do when you were in.

(25:06):
And I was in denial of a lot of things. I got married and did that whole thing
and life was good. And then all of a sudden the world got dark.
You know, the world started closing in, as I said, like we moved,
we moved over from over to where I'm at now in Ormond Beach from St. Pete side.

(25:27):
And we bought a house and I moved over by myself.
My wife was still back in St.
Pete. So I was like doing all the reno and stuff on the house and nosy neighbors.
Started peeking in my fucking windows these old people i swear they love to like yeah right,

(25:48):
well they have no boundaries no they don't no so that's kind of like where it
started i'm like oh all right i didn't really like that so like the camera started
going up the locks on my gate started happening yeah i left the house less and
less and less to really got to the point where i I wasn't leaving my house at all. Okay.

(26:08):
I got to a place where people were not good for me. Like I had zero trust in people.
You know, I think a lot of that happened from,
someone tried to kill me that didn't know me okay yeah in
afghanistan yeah i'm saying yeah when my trust there was just gone like i like

(26:30):
all that just started coming in the night terror started happening for me the
rage the ptsd rage kind of comes from that and huge amount of depression.
Like i just never left the chair sometimes like i was i was dying inside really
honestly yeah and And I didn't really know a way out of it at that time.

(26:52):
I think not too many veterans know.
I remember, again, your completely different type of situation.
But I remember coming home and that, you call it, that PTSD rage.
I mean, I had a bad, you know, where I don't know if you were the same way,
but I'm sure. But it's like you forgot what pissed you off so much.
But you just go from zero to like red, you know, like in a matter of half a

(27:17):
second. And then you just don't remember what pissed you off initially,
you know, after, you know, you're done.
And I'll never forget. And this is when, you know, Internet was still very,
very slow. But I remember getting an email from one of our squad mates.
And he's like, hey, are any of you angry?
And all of us, you know, reply all like, fuck, yeah, dude. Like,
what the hell's going on with us?

(27:37):
You know, like, you know, it's just it's just something we weren't used to.
It's part of it, I think, is just the aggressiveness that the Army taught us to be.
Like you know when we're out in combat like yeah you know what
we're angry we're this fucking hornets that
the minute you fuck with us yeah we're gonna be all over
you in a heartbeat and i think that transferred over to civilian life for

(27:58):
us not realizing that civilians don't really like that and they don't understand
it and and i don't think too many people talk about that ptsd rage that you
described which is a great description i'm actually gonna steal that now you
should trademark that PTSD rage but that PTSD rage is so real because it just like you know.

(28:19):
I mean, I could give examples. I mean, I remember when I first,
first came home and I was driving and it was like someone was behind me,
tailgating me, honking their horn.
Like, I'm like, what the fuck is like, what am I doing? I'm looking at my speedometer.
I'm doing the speed limit. Like I'm doing everything right.
And out of nowhere, just this rage hit me and I fucking slammed on that brake.

(28:41):
I opened my, like I was completely not myself, you know, to me it was a threat.
All right. That's a threat. now i gotta deal with it so i could
totally understand also with the whole nosy neighbors because
when i came home yeah you get the nosy neighbors and you're like what
the fuck do you want like leave me alone you know i'm not here to
talk i'm not your buddy i'm not like just go be by yourself and i'm happy exactly

(29:06):
exactly exactly and even even to this day my wife like i remember when we first
went to seattle i've never been out
you know in the west coast area and everyone in And see, I was so nice.
And they were like, oh, good morning, sir. And all that, like random strangers.
And I look at my wife. I'm like, why the fuck are they saying hi to me? I don't even know them.
And she's like, well, that's just the way people are here, honey.

(29:29):
Like, you don't have to take.
I'm like, no, there's a fucking angle here. I don't know why they're talking
to me. Just don't talk to me.
But anyways, so it's just like, you know, these are reminding me of some of
even my issues when I first came home.
Of just this dark cloud that was just always over me, you know,
and then kind of described the same way, you know, it just sounds like same way with you where,

(29:51):
yeah, I was the type like you, I did not go out as much. I just stayed home. I was a homebody.
I just, you know, depression, all that hit you.
And so with what you were building though,
as, as, as you were, we'll say coming out of it, was it something that you just
did on your own to come out of, or were you kind of working on yourself and

(30:12):
then got a service dog or, or somehow got connected that way to a, to a dog?
Well, I got to the point where every house that we bought, I'd always build a bar.
That was kind of my escape. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I always made a bar for me to go to kind of thing. Yeah.

(30:34):
One day I walked out and I had a gun in one hand and my phone in the other.
And then this was after we had adopted our son. He was 19 years old when we adopted him.
And it was just not a life. I just couldn't participate in his life.
I couldn't go out with them to places and do things.
And I just, I don't know. I just couldn't get it. You know, I couldn't.

(30:59):
And I was just, I'm either, and I said to myself, I'm either going to kill myself
or I'm going to figure my shit out today.
You know, and I, and I chose to look at the phone and I started just Googling
help for veterans basically, like with PTSD and I'll have a severe TBI.
And I still don't understand how that affects me and everything that I do.

(31:19):
But so I ran across, there was a Gratitude America, that was the organization
that I come upon and they had a military support retreat for couples.
So that was the first thing I did is like I went with my wife and it helped
her like see that she wasn't alone in it kind of thing.

(31:43):
You know that there are other people feeling the same shit that
she's feeling you know and that was
the very first time that i said my story out loud you know
they they did this weird thing where
they give you this blank mask it's a white okay yeah and you know what i'm getting
at yeah yeah on the inside paint like how you see yourself on the outside how

(32:06):
do you think people see you yep and then my story came out of that and i cried
like a little bitch and ran out of the room.
What are these feelings? I need to get away from these things.
I don't want them. Yeah, so after that, they basically told me when I was there

(32:26):
that the guy that was running it, he said, you don't have a choice.
You need to go to this Warrior Path program.
It's a seven-day thing. Just go work on yourself for seven days. That's it.
So it wasn't even a month after I left there, I went to this retreat and it
was in McClendon, Florida, which is the smallest little fucking town in the middle of nowhere.

(32:49):
And they had like, I think they had like 25 acres or something there that they had made this program.
And that was a life changing moment for me.
I came home and I went to, I started, keep in mind, I didn't leave my house still.
Like that wasn't a thing for me. and I started I came home from that and I started

(33:13):
loading my kid up in the mornings and I took him to daycare for the first time
like I had a hard time because it just happened to be trash day,
and trash day is hard for me because my ID was under trash so it's just hard
for me to keep driving through it but you know I'd gotten that far so we were just going to keep going.

(33:37):
Made it to daycare Like I got him inside and I come back out of the vehicle
and I just like took the big breath and like this Bald boy little fucking eyes out, you know,
And then I went to a coffee shop, a little local, small coffee shop.
I wanted to drive back home more than anything, but I was like,
I need to just keep pushing just a little bit.

(33:58):
And then this coffee, this little local shop called Pines to Pops,
and they had a little room in the back.
And I asked them if I could go in there.
They had a couch and everything. And I said, can I close the door so that nobody
else comes in there? So I was able to have my first cup of coffee really outside that I'd done in years.
Wow. Years. Yeah. Long years.

(34:21):
And that coffee shop ended up being kind of how Pop Smoke kind of got its thing.
I had tried to go to another organization, and they kind of were,
the person that was doing it was, she liked to scream and yell a lot.
She thinks all veterans, I think, likes that shit. And I, listen,
it doesn't bother me, but it bothers my TBI, so it hurts my brain,

(34:43):
like I can't handle that shit.
So I left there, and then a buddy of mine came to the coffee shop,
and he was like, I think you need to start your own.
You'd be really good at this, you know. And I'd already been trained up.
I ran across an ex-canine officer who would come to my house and like start
training me, the dogs and stuff, because I wanted to do something.

(35:05):
I just didn't really know what. what and he's like let me just start training you with
dogs so he got me up certified me and
all that kind of stuff for service dog work and basic obedience
and then and so then
i met up my friend at the coffee shop and i was like i don't know so i came
home and i talked to my wife at the time and she's like you know if it's what
you want to do do it and so i went back to the coffee shop the next day after

(35:29):
i dropped my son and the same guy showed up and he's like so what are you calling and I'm like,
I have no idea, you know?
And I said, we sat there and we named all for two and I was like,
let's just name it Pop Smoke.
And he said, well, why do you want to name it Pop Smoke? And I said,
well, that was my men back out of Afghanistan came after we had the Pop Smoke.

(35:52):
So I kind of use that as my thing is like, you know, it helps me see through the smoke kind of thing.
That's our motto of the thing. because I really, once I got,
I got my service dog, I found him, he was a failed duck dog out of Minnesota. I got him here.
So a failed duck dog. So what, for duck hunters, basically?

(36:16):
Yep. I don't know which part of the program he felled off.
He probably was being friends with the ducks or something. Not bringing the bird back. I like him.
Bring the bird back. Yeah, exactly.
That's awesome. So he came to me and,
I started training him up. And before you know it, I got a dog that can do pretty

(36:40):
much anything and everything for me.
Like he can open doors, he can get my shoes, he can get my shirts.
And then I went, I put myself through school to do the medical alerting because
there's not a lot of people in this country that actually do the medical alert for dogs.
Very few actually. And it costs you about $10,000 per dog to add that.
And that's on the cheap side. Wow. So I knew that I was going to need it.

(37:04):
So I figured a lot of veterans will need it. And there's no way they're going
to be able to afford $10,000.
So I can pay $4,000 and go to school.
So I'm going to go do that. And that way I can teach it to a person. Yeah.
So that's kind of like how we got started was that in the coffee shop.
And I went to school when I finished going to school for the medical alerting.
And then I just started rolling with it.

(37:27):
So how long did it take you to finish the medical alert?
That was a year. Oh, it was a year. The program was a year. Okay. Yeah.
We met. We actually, it's all over Zoom, because at the time,
that's how they did it. It was all over video and stuff.
So I actually got to use Toby as my dog through the program.

(37:47):
Oh, okay. So we actually learned the medical learning as I did.
Wow. So describe kind of like, so what happens with the medical learning with the dogs?
What is it that they, how do they get trained in it? Or what is it that they
pick up on for the medical learning?
Yeah, so for the medical learning, your body actually lets off a bunch of different
scents when you have a medical episode, let's say.

(38:08):
For people that have seizures, for people that have heart attacks,
even for a lot of the veterans who have anxiety, you actually,
when you get anxiety, it's not just sweat that you're doing.
There's another smell that's in there, a hormone, so to speak,
that the dogs can smell that we can't.
And they can smell that and that's kind of how you start
teaching them so like i had to start

(38:31):
collecting cotton balls of every time i had anxiety attacks like
my neck forehead and and then i would store it in the freezer and that's how
you kind of start the scent work you started them smelling it as soon as they
put their nose on the can you click it treat it you know and then once they
got pretty good with that part then you advance it a little bit further and
And it just, it took a little bit of time to get there.

(38:54):
It's a long process to make sure that they actually, a lot of dogs like to use
their eyes to see things.
You know, you have to really teach a dog to use their nose in that realm of things.
So that scent work part is like the important part on that one. Wow, that's amazing.
And so is it like, so the more advanced, so would you basically induce anxiety
on yourself for Toby to pick up on it?

(39:17):
No, I just did it. It happened very naturally for me. Okay.
All i have to do is really step outside and pull a
good okay gotcha gotcha gotcha gotcha so
you literally threw toby in the deep end and was like
all right you gotta learn yeah pretty much and that's so great he loves to learn
so it made it easy oh that's good uh yeah so he wasn't the type of dog that

(39:41):
just went the other way i'm sorry yeah no i was gonna say so he wasn't the type
of dog that just sees a squirrel and runs off.
Well, I got some good videos I can send you that there's like 20 deer sitting
right in front of me and he's just sitting there.
That's awesome. Well, that's a good dog. You know, he's doing his,
he's doing his job essentially.

(40:02):
And, and man, that, that's awesome. So, so how many dogs have you trained for
veterans and actually given to veterans?
Right now, we're up to 15 dogs that we actually gave to veterans and first responders.
So, sorry, Mrs. 5-0 or 1-5?
1-5. 1-5. We're still small. Yep. Yeah, we're still small, but,

(40:25):
you know, we're trucking along the lines.
We're growing pretty rapidly here recently, and we actually ate dogs in the
kennel right now being trained to go out. A lot of puppies.
Yeah. Yeah, they give me a lot of fucking headaches.
Right. Hey, but you know what? I'd rather puppy headaches than fucking people headaches.

(40:46):
Absolutely. Dogs weigh more than people in my house.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's my man's best friend, right? You know,
just they're much easier to handle than people.
Yeah. They can be very trying at some time, especially the two new ones that I've got. Oh, yeah?
How old are they? 20 weeks, the two new ones. Okay.

(41:07):
And they're a breed that I'm not super familiar with. We got them donated to
us. There are many golden doodles.
Okay. I don't normally, I normally just do labs and goldens.
Yeah. Um, a just because they're really treat motivated and that's how we train
a street motivated or ball motivated.
Okay. And with labs, like there's never a burger question. Like they're so food

(41:28):
motivated. It's ridiculous.
Makes it easy. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But these little garden doodles now
they're a little different.
They have these human eyes that are like creepy as shit. Yeah.
You turn around and they're staring at you. You're like, what the fuck are you
staring at? It's creepy.

(41:49):
Oh, my God. That is creepy with having human eyes on a dog. Yeah, it is creepy.
Oh, that's awesome. Are they basically, so you have the eight dogs.
Are they already basically spoken for, like the veterans that you're training them for?
Yeah, those are the only two that aren't spoken for at the time right now.

(42:10):
The other ones I have in the kennel are all meant to go to a veteran.
The veterans haven't met them yet because they're all still in their basic obedience stages.
Once we get close to getting basic obedience done, how we do it is we'll fly
the veteran into us if they're not local.
They'll spend, I have a really nice area here. It's like a little oasis.

(42:31):
It's like serenity when you come here. It's super peaceful.
They come here for four days and they just do nothing but spend time with that
dog. That dog gets to stay with them in the house for the first time.
The dog gets to do, actually gets actual loving because I don't,
we don't give a lot of loving because they can't bond with me.
They can't bond with anybody else.
Any of the other veterans that come and walks them, they can't do any of that.

(42:54):
So they get pets here and there, but they don't get the actual like loving and
affection that they really want.
And they want it really bad. Gotcha. Yeah.
So, so sorry, go ahead.
And after that, then the veteran goes back home and then I finished training
them up through all, making sure the, the basic and advanced obedience is on point.

(43:15):
And then that dog goes, I will fly the dog to the veteran. I take him there myself.
I spend four days with that veteran at their home, getting it acclimated,
making sure they're good, any questions, kind of teaching them a little bit
of the training aspect of things.
And then I fly home. And then they'll spend three weeks with that dog,
just letting that dog get, it
takes about three weeks for a dog to get acclimated to a new environment.

(43:39):
And so once that's done and then we start the service dog
training portion so actually me the veteran and
the dog train together for the service and the medical alert gotcha uh it's
the only way we're able to do it in order to cut the cost of it so service dogs
according to the the ada they're worth about 25 000 bucks once they said and

(44:00):
done once they're trained and then if you add medical alert you're looking at,
around up to $75,000.
Wow. I mean, they're legitimately, they can save your life.
You know, they're a medical device. So they're worth so much money.
And it's just hard to, if I was to train them all up myself,
you know, it takes about two years alone.
You know, we wouldn't be able to help as many, but with doing it this way,

(44:23):
you know, I can get them trained up fairly quickly
with the basic obedience and where they're
super solid at dogs and they're ready and they know they work i
mean we we put the best on them early they were wearing the best at puppies
you know so they know when they're working when they're not working you know
anytime they're doing training they're in their vest they're working they know
that part you know it's just up to the veteran to find the motivation to do

(44:48):
the train gotcha and that sometimes is the hard part.
The veteran is the hard part than the dog sometimes. Well, yeah.
I mean, again, people, right?
Yeah. But so with the training, is that over Zoom or how is that usually done?
Yeah, we Zoom our teams however you want to do it. That's how we do it.
And then we have an app that we share videos through. Okay.

(45:10):
Like they'll be posting their videos of like I'll give them homework that week.
They'll post their videos there. I check and view them and then I'll send back
like corrections that way throughout the week.
But we have one one session one zoom
session a week unless they're having issues with something and
then we get on and we do it gotcha they're always texting me
or you know matt just recently got huey yeah i

(45:32):
don't know if you got to see him yeah no he yeah he was under
the desk or something but yeah he did talk about huey yeah he's uh he just recently
got huey huey's just a special character he's the smartest dumbest dog i've
ever met so he met you what you're saying is he matches matt's personality really well.

(45:57):
Oh that's awesome uh so yeah so he actually has said that huey has said has
saved his life i mean he's he said that to me before you know when because he
was in a very dark place and And Huey helped them a lot,
which is always obviously great to hear fellow veterans coming out of whatever
darkness they're going through.

(46:18):
And, you know, like I'm part of an organization called 22 Mohawks,
and I told you about them.
And it's just amazing to see that when we deliver or that veteran comes to the,
we call our headquarters, we call it the SCIF.
So, you know, when they come to the skiff and when we hand that dog off to that
veteran, it's amazing to see the veteran's eyes just light right up.

(46:38):
Like just, it's like you, again, you gave them a new purpose or something,
you know, like something deep inside of them just woke up again.
And just that connection with that dog, just, it's unbelievable.
It's just, I mean, the science behind it alone speaks volume. Yeah. Yeah.
It's amazing to see the difference that it can make.

(46:59):
Yeah. Uh, and Matt, I met Matt and we have a lot of things in common.
I think, I think we deal with a lot of our, the aftermath of our traumas, a lot of the same. Yeah.
And I think that's where we kind of connected on, on a different level. Yeah.
That I was, I haven't been able to connect with somebody on that level in a long time. Yeah.

(47:21):
So that's like kind of how where it started with, I actually met him at the
warrior path program. Okay.
After I left there, I started going back and I was a guide there.
So I did that on top of the service dog thing at the same time.
So I was actually teaching the program because it literally did change my life.
And then I got cancer, so I had to stop it.

(47:43):
Well, that's the thing, though.
As we're talking, and then you just forget that you...
Basically, I built like RoboCop, as Matt likes to describe you,
and cancer and all of that.
But then for me, like, oh, shit, that's right.
She's still battling all those other things on top of doing what you're doing.

(48:09):
Again, it's always refreshing to hear veterans that come out of that dark place
and are able to drive forward and move forward and push forward,
finding their second mission or their purpose.
And, you know, that purpose that you found, that drive that you have service
before self, I mean, you're doing it with these service dogs, literally, right?

(48:30):
I mean, you know, it's something much bigger than you.
And, you know, if you want to call your quote-unquote bullshit,
you know, that you're going through.
But it's like one of those things like, yeah, fuck the bullshit I'm going through.
I'm still going to help, you know, my fellow veteran or my fellow man or woman
or whoever that needs that help.
You'll still go out and do it. And that's something that, again,
it's like one thing I always teach my son is always help people.

(48:55):
You have no idea what people are going through in their personal lives.
Always be that rock for them or always be that friend to them,
whether it's someone to listen to or just something.
And, you know, I think those, you know, us veterans that, that have gone through
trauma or even first responders on top of that, you know, especially if you
talk in a 30 year career as a cop,

(49:17):
the amount of, you know, especially if you work in a city, you know,
big city, medium sized city, the amount of trauma you face on a daily basis or a weekly basis alone.
You know, not too many Americans go through that.
I mean, I know when I was in, when I deployed in 2005, I remember the usual
number of those who are actually serving in the armed forces was 0.45%.

(49:40):
So less than 1% of the U.S.
Population actually serve in the military. And same with policing.
It's less than 1% of the total population in America.
And you don't have really anybody else but each other.
I always say, like, we only understand each other.
Like no one else will ever no therapist no

(50:02):
fucking psychiatrist like unless they've been
there done that got the t-shirt to me
they have no idea you know i'm not you're laughing
but but that's like you get it right i mean just like you just you can't relate
to somebody like that you know especially you know i mean i've you know again

(50:22):
going through therapy and talking to therapists and stuff like that who've never
served they're like listen you know and i appreciate them saying bang it right off the bat.
Like, listen, I never served. I have no idea.
You know, what you're going through, but I understand trauma.
Right. So, so I appreciate that, that perspective coming out of them versus,

(50:42):
you know, the typical therapist who just thinks they know more than you.
And you're like, dude, I'm, I'm already done, you know, uh, you know,
I'm already done with you.
I don't want to talk to you anymore. I'm going to go home, you know?
Yeah. So, so it's, it's, it's, yeah. I mean, that's, that's the thing that with,
with With these types of services, you're providing veterans and still going

(51:04):
out there doing everything else.
And then, you know, for me, like I said, I think back and I'm like,
oh, yeah, she doesn't have legs and she's battling cancer and yet she's still doing so.
I mean, again, so that deep inside drive.
I mean, is it just you basically saying to yourself one step at a time or I'm

(51:25):
going to keep pushing forward? Or what is it kind of the, I say the daily motivation
that, that drives you to continue doing what you're doing?
I just think it's part of my therapy. I'm just going to be honest.
I use it to get myself out of this house.
Depression is still a huge part for me. Yeah. It will drive me to stay in the bed.

(51:49):
So, you know, now that I've got cancer, like,
I just can't let that be my life. If I'm going to lay there,
then I'm going to just die and give in to it.
I just tell myself, just 1% better every day.
One foot in front of the other. I tell myself that every morning.
It's all I can do sometimes to want to step out of that bed,

(52:11):
but I don't want to live in that bed.
I don't want that to be my life.
They are what drives me to get up and to do it. And then when I start doing
it, I feel like I finally had a purpose again for myself because I lost all of it.
I mean, I lost everything that I used to love to do. I can't ride motorcycles anymore.

(52:34):
I can't jump out of planes anymore. I can't do all the high-risk crap anymore.
My life is kind of boring.
I wouldn't say boring. Trust me. Sit on this end. It's not boring.
But I, I use it to keep pushing myself forward.
But when I see what the dog does to the veteran and how it changes their life,

(52:59):
and it's just a feeling that I can't describe.
It's just like, all right, I am doing fucking the right thing.
Like this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Like I think Matt asked me, he's like, so how big do you want this thing to
be? And I've said, I just really see it as one dog, one veteran at a time.
I don't care how big I get. I want to do it the right way.

(53:23):
There's a lot of people out there that will give you a dog and they'll say it's a service dog.
And it's just a well-trained dog.
I want this dog to save your life. And I want him just to be a buddy.
And I need him to be there in those hard moments when you have a gun in your
hand or a phone in the other.
And use the dog instead of either one of those things.

(53:47):
You know, that's what I want.
You said something a little bit ago about when you're around other veterans,
that's when you understand each other or police officers, you know, and that is so true.
Like there's so many veterans that can be in a room crowded with a bunch of
people and they can feel so, and they do and they're mine, but they'll never

(54:08):
say it to anybody else, you know? And that is actually what brings the veterans into that dark place.
Because they just think that no one will ever understand what they've seen,
what they've done, because people don't realize what you do.
When you deploy, the crap that you see, the crap that you're put in,

(54:29):
you know, and like for you, law enforcement,
like when I was a cop, you don't ever get called to someone's good day,
you know, you don't get called to the happy birthday parties,
you know, and it's always somebody's worst day, you know, when that is your
life as a cop, you live that at least five days a week, you know,
and when we're deployed,
it didn't happen every single day that we were there, but it happened a lot.

(54:52):
But for police officers, I mean, it's rampant because they're in it every day,
a full shift of just the negative. That's where they live.
And then you want them not to live there when they go home. Like it's like hell.
You're going to have to give them some extra different tools in order to do that.

(55:13):
I think that's the biggest. It's not drugs. No. It's not the drugs.
Like the VA, they like to hand them out like candy. Oh, yeah.
I was on a lot of meds, mental health meds, and I just finally said,
that's not the answer for me.
I really turned to the dog in order to pull me through those really dark moments.

(55:34):
My dog wakes me up from night terrors.
Before I had my dog, I woke up trying to basically strangle my wife.
That's when I knew my problems were seriously out of control at that moment.
You know, like I have to change this for myself, for my family,
my son, get in all that, you know, and there's veterans just sitting there suffering

(55:56):
just like that, not knowing which way to go, which way to turn.
And they don't have that, you know? And if you're, if there's any of them listening
right now, even if you don't want a dog, just reach out, you know,
talk. I'm a hell of a listener.
I've gotten really good at that one.

(56:17):
That's, I mean, that's again, really sound advice for veteran and the police community.
The first one, I mean, you know, just we all know suicide rates are out of control
in the police world and it's always underreported.
I truly believe it's underreported because you don't hear enough about it and
saying the veteran community, you know, the amount of, and I bet you, you know, it's, I would,

(56:41):
guess that if they were to actually do a poll on
attempted suicide and not successful it'll be
10 times higher than obviously than the actual suicide right
within the veteran and and law enforcement community because yeah you're right
i mean when we were deployed we were deployed right and when you come home okay
you're good you're safe you're not you don't have to worry as much you know

(57:03):
other than your traumas and whatever else you had to deal with but you know
when when i I deployed and you would get there, there's like,
you had to kill off your human self in order to do the job, right?
You had to kind of separate your feelings, quote unquote, because,
you know, when we had soldiers die, it's like, oh, we got mission the next day or mission that night.

(57:25):
Like, it didn't really matter. You just got to, you just push forward.
You know, you're still doing the job.
Policing, yeah, technically you never have a day off,
especially when you're, you know, know here and and that's constantly
what you're doing every single day and your phone
especially these days with these stupid smartphones now you
know you're easily to get a hold of you know

(57:45):
with work and everything i mean when i became a cop in 2007 cell phones weren't
as prevalent you know for calling you into work or any of that bullshit but
you know this day and age of smartphones yeah you're always connected to the
pd you're always connected to the bullshit and the negativity and all this shit
that you deal with on a daily basis.
And you're right to bring it home really affects your family life,

(58:08):
your personal life, you know, and that dark place you go to.
And, you know, a lot of cops and veterans, we go right to the booze.
I mean, that's the, that's within that culture, right?
You go right to the, to the alcohol, you go right to whatever prescriptions that the VA gave you.
Because yeah, I mean, at one point I was on 13 different psych medications and

(58:30):
I felt like a fucking zombie and I hated every, I was like, this is too much.
I can't, I don't think I should be doing this many medication.
I don't think it's right, you know, because you just don't feel like yourself. Right.
And, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And I'm like this emotionless, just whatever vegetable, you know,

(58:54):
and, and, you know, like you said, it comes to a point where you really got
to ask yourself like, all right, is this, is this right?
Like, or am I like really question again, that's, that's, even though I'm still
in the VA and I do that a lot of myself through the VA, I throw a lot more questions
at these doctors these days, a lot more. Right.

(59:14):
And a lot more second guessing, like, ah, I'm not sure I want to do this,
you know, like more questions than answers.
And I think that's just the way to do it. But, you know, to have a outlet like
a dog at home where you can come home to that picks up on your,
you know, cues right away and is able to bring you back down versus keeping

(59:34):
you in that elevated state.
I think speaks volumes kind of with what you bring to the veteran and first
responder community is because they never, they, you know, they,
as in, you know, the military and even, you know, police community never teach
you to separate yourself, right?
You know, to separate that trauma, whatever, to be able to turn off your mind, so to speak, right?

(59:59):
To turn off that hunter instinct, because that's all we're doing.
We're scanning, we're scanning for dangers, we're looking for dangers.
And as a cop, that's all you're doing.
You know, when we were deployed, yeah, when we deployed, we were outside the
wire, that's when we're scanning for dangers and whatever else.
And we know that somebody on the other side is trying to kill us and we're going to kill them.
And it's like very primal, right it's a very very

(01:00:19):
primal lifestyle and when you come
back here everything is you know rosy and rainbows
and sunshine and you're like what the fuck is all this why
why is everything so happy here you know it's like shouldn't be this way even
even as a cop you tend to find yourself like why the fuck is everyone having
fun don't they know how miserable it is out here you know like but that but

(01:00:41):
that negativity is what really essentially kills you you know and for you You know,
bouncing back, right, repeatedly.
I mean, it seems every single day you bounce, you kind of force yourself to
get out of bed, take that first step forward.
You know, without, I know we're running close to time, but what I'd like to

(01:01:03):
see is, you know, a question I always ask guests on the show is,
which I think you already did a great job doing it ahead of time.
But if there was one message you want to put out to the veteran and first responder
community, if there's like one thing you want to tell them for them to think
about tonight and whatever else you want them to think, what would that one lesson be or advice?

(01:01:28):
I think my biggest aim is like, I know you feel alone, but you're not.
It doesn't have to be that way. You know, you just got to make one phone call.
It can be to the buddy, to a good friend. It can be to anybody that you trust
enough to say it and they can give you that help that you need.
And it doesn't have to be in the VA. Like for me, like, yeah,

(01:01:50):
I went at first, I started all my mental health through the VA.
And I figured out for me that I needed someone that thinks outside the box.
I didn't want you to treat me just like every other veteran.
And that's kind of what they do with the thing.
Because I'm different than you or anybody else.
And the way that I view my mental health is different than Joe Blow next to me.

(01:02:12):
So I went out and I found, I have two mental health therapists, and I created a routine.
And that routine is really what gets me up every day to do that.
I have a whole thing where I don't touch my phone.
I don't do any of those things until I've worked out. Yes, I'm in cancer,
but I still make it part of my regimen.

(01:02:33):
I do cold therapy now, which has been super great for the inflammation in my
lower half and that kind of thing.
And And a big thing, you actually touched on it, is like how we see the world.
Like we've actually forgotten how to have fun.
And I think that is the most important thing, is like go out and do one thing

(01:02:55):
that fucking just makes you laugh uncontrollably and remember what it feels
like to be a kid again, sorta.
Like when you've been a part of trauma, when you've stood beside your friends
who've died, when you've seen the shit that you do as a police officer,
or you forget that there's still fucking shit out there that makes you happy
and that you can go out and laugh and do those things.

(01:03:16):
Like we do not laugh hard enough.
We can giggle, right? We can fucking do that stupid shit, you know?
But like that uncontrollable laugh that we used to do when we were a kid just
because it was just pure joy,
You know, I lost that. Somebody said that to me, like, when was the last time you laughed?
You know, and when I was in my darkest moment, I couldn't even tell you it'd been years.

(01:03:40):
You know, and once I figured out that, like, all right, I just need to go find this, whatever it is.
You know, some of the stupid, for me, I found it in a dog, in my laughter,
because they do some stupid shit.
So like i found that my love and
my passion turned into be like where i

(01:04:02):
started having actual fun with my my son for the
first time you know and so the biggest
thing is like it doesn't always have to be a appeal
that changes you it can be an animal that you
reach down for and that simple just touching your the your hand to that dog's
head it make the world just seem all right for just that five minutes that you

(01:04:24):
need it to to get yourself out of that funk that you're in that's keeping you
in that chair whatever it is you know it's out there look for it there's a million,
veteran and first responder organizations that is waiting to help you you just
have to take that first small step and make contact yeah and it can be a phone

(01:04:44):
call it can be a phone call to me call Call me up and I'll put you in contact with it.
Do not just sit there and let it take you. Because you're not alone, you're just not.
And there's ways to fight through it, unorthodox ways.
And listen, a lot of people don't consider that service dog as a path for them.

(01:05:06):
But he, my dog, has literally changed my life.
Like, I'm able to go out and shit. I went to Disney with my son.
You do remember I said I hate people? Yes. I was already thinking just me taking
my son to Disneyland, Disney World.

(01:05:26):
And my love for humans really shone through.
Yeah. For you, that's a huge step to go to Disney World.
It's possible for anybody. You just got to change the mindset that you're in,
the negative world that you've been taught to live in.

(01:05:49):
That's what we've all been trained for, to live in that world.
They don't train you how to get out of it.
They don't train you how not to be that fighter anymore, that protector.
They don't get that out of you. You know, they don't give you the tools to get
to cut that little switch back off so you can go be a part of civilian life.
You know, the rage that you're feeling that once you say all this shit to people

(01:06:13):
and your mouth opens up and all those things.
And then you look at the person sitting across from you and you realize that
you just crushed their world with the words that just come out of your mouth.
That was my biggest thing.
And I'm still actually battling that, like the rage,
you know, this the because I don't I'm at the point kind of where I'm like,
I've been through some shit, you know, and I keep going through some shit,

(01:06:35):
and I got to the point where I didn't really care about people's feelings on
the other end of my mouth.
You know? And that's not good at all. You know, the.
And it's just a constant battle. Like I constantly work to get on the other
side of something. And you've just got to want that for yourself.
Like the life, the sitting in the chair and be miserable.

(01:06:57):
You got to want different. You can do it. Anybody can do it.
If I can do it, anybody can do it. And just keep pushing, you know.
Well, Alicia, thank you so much for coming on, talking about your story and,
you know, sharing laughs on
some of our quirks as combat vets and some of the shit we all go through.

(01:07:18):
But again, your story of resilience and just keep pushing literally one step
at a time and still continuing to persevere no matter what comes in front of you,
whether it's cancer or surgeries or whatever it might be.
You still truck on and push on. And obviously.

(01:07:39):
Thank you for everything that you do for the communities both law
enforcement first responder and military uh veterans
and um on the what i'll
do on the show notes is put your website and your email address
that way people want to get in touch with you um you know have questions for
you can you know reach out to you um obviously you know big big part of this

(01:08:01):
is like you said uh call someone you know shit you know i always put my email
address at all the show notes like an email,
like, you know, get a hold of us.
We have, you know, what's great about this type of network that we're in is
we have a plethora of legit, legit good resources versus the bullshit resources

(01:08:22):
where all you're doing is,
you know, getting pushed around to different things is, you know,
it's a very different type of resource when it's being run by veterans, by combat vets.
That's that it's, it's a different type of passion.
You know it's a different type of reaction but uh hey alicia if you can hang
out just for a second i'm gonna do a quick outro and and uh we'll talk to you

(01:08:44):
offline in just a second all right.
All right well there you have it folks uh
i mean what a what a great episode a
great story i hope you guys all got something out of
it and again it wouldn't be uh wouldn't happen if it
wasn't for supporters and sponsors like a habit journal
aaa police supply uh second mission Foundation and

(01:09:05):
you know if I forget to mention you don't worry
I love you it's a lot for this TBI mind to remember so but in the end you know
if you guys get anything out of this please feel free to reach out like share
comment on our Instagram page or even email and we love you.

(01:09:27):
Music.