Art, Ancestry, And A Bold Pivot Conversation with Serial Entrepreneur Nkenge Adams

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Kenji Adams.
It's so good to have you on theProven Not Perfect um community
podcast show, whatever you wantto call it.
I'm glad you're here.
I'm glad you're here.
I've known you for a long time,lady.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Yes, over 20 at least.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Yeah.
Amazing to say that because Ithink when we met, we literally
had babies.
Now we have grown people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Yes.
They're literally like grown.
Like I have a yes.
They're grown.
Whole people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
People that people that need to now start, you
know, re paying us back thatreturn on investment.
So I have a yes, I'm ready.
I haven't ready to see that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Yes.
I am ready to see those.
I'm ready to catch the mercy andget my my ROI on my kids.
So what was that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
I'm with you.
And so that is a greatintroduction to the conversation
that I'm excited about us havingtoday.
This is all about getting thereturn on investment.
Um, in an area that I've yet totalk to anyone at this level
about before.
Um, so certainly arts has been apart of other people's story,

(02:12):
but I was kind of thinking, whocan I have in the Proven Not
Perfect Podcast environment tohelp us kind of unpack some of
the thinking around theimportance of art, what it means
for our life, um, in so manyways, the more that I'm
studying, I realize the impactof art is so much more than

(02:33):
trivial.
And I think I might book myselfa trip to the local art museum
this weekend just because I amtruly believing the hype.
So Kenji, the reason um that uhso so let's kind of just start
with when I say art means to me,dot dot dot, how would you
follow the dots?

(02:54):
What does art mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
And it's funny because um I don't always
consider myself an artist.
I mean when I met you, both ofus were in the business world
and you know, all that kind ofthing.
But for me, art just um hasopened up so many doors, and it
just feels like being your trueself.
So if I had to put it into likeone or two words, I would just

(03:19):
be freedom, self-expression, andjoy.
And um, those are just some ofthe words I would use, and also
discovery because there's somany things that I'm learning.
Like I'm going back, I think Imentioned when we talked
earlier, um, that I'm going backto school and getting another
master's in actually arthistory.

(03:40):
So I'm actually now studying thehistory of art and and what it
means to be, you know, anartist.
And it goes way back, you know,10th century across, you know,
different areas, across, youknow, Chinese and different
other kinds of you know,countries, continents, and just

(04:00):
understanding what those um alittle bit more about what it
meant to them and why theycreated the art that they did.
And then for me, it's just moreof a self-expression on and a
deeper understanding of me as aperson and how I relate to some
of these these pieces.

SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
What I love about what you just said is the agency
that goes along with the pivot.
Because to your point, startingoff in a lane that's purely um
business oriented, not artbusiness, but business itself.
Um, and I believe more in the ITtech realm for you.

SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Yeah, and the project manager, yeah, for 20
years and applicationdevelopments.
Like that's I mean, there iscreativity in the design of the
software, you know, software,the screens, the user experience
that all is also artistic, but Ithink in my day-to-day, it was
mostly about project, you know,getting a dime, deadlines,

(04:59):
budgets.
That's kind of the world I livedin.

SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
So you've ratcheted it up.
So when you when you decided tomake this pivotal shift from the
project management, softwareapplication, day-to-day, tell me
a little bit about what wascalling you into this, or or
rather inviting you, because Ithink in your story, something

(05:23):
pretty pivotal happened in yourlegacy, quite frankly, to invite
you into to this space evenmore.
Can you share that with us?

SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Sure.
So when I was actually gifted alot of these pieces that were
from Africa, which is a wholenother probably podcast on that.
No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
No, girl, this is a conversation because we need to
know who you are and why you whyyou have the impact that you do.
So yeah, so no, definitely tellus about that.

SPEAKER_00 (05:56):
Yeah, so um I was doing consulting, you know, in
the business world, and uhpartner that I had worked with,
like a organization in myschool, I didn't come into and
acquired lots of artifacts whenthey're rehabbing a building
that they just bought.
And they came across all ofthese artifacts, and they asked
me basically, did I did I wantthem?

(06:18):
And I thought it'd be a coupleof things, you know, a couple of
masks, a couple statues, but itwas it was over 90 pieces of
African art.

SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Um, you know, uh, masks, um, a lot of it was
spiritual masks.
Um, so I've been on this pursuitof just trying to understand
where these came from, who ownedthese, what do they mean, um,
letting people who wouldn'tnormally have access to see it.
I've done my own journey.

(06:48):
I've done my own not onlyancestry DNA, I did my own
African heritage DNA tounderstand my own African
heritage and what that meant,and what tribes on my maternal
side am I connected to, whichtied to Cameroon and tribes in
Cameroon as well as Nigeria, andfound that a lot of the pieces I

(07:10):
had are from Cameroon or fromNigeria.

SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
So when art imitates life, like in all seriousness,
when I asked you what it calledyou, did it invite you?
There is such um such a biggerspiritual element to what you
just said.
So I I I just can't gloss overthis because the story is one

(07:36):
that I think will inspireothers.
Here you are going about yourday and your way, doing the
consulting business that youoperate.
And you find yourself in asituation where a client offers
to gift you this art vault.

(08:00):
And you then respectfully give ayes and took the assignment to
start understanding it, and thenyou find out it connects to your
own personal heritage.
I'm serious, that's that's likemind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Yeah, I feel like it was and divine, and it and it's
funny because you know, a lot ofus have journeys and twists and
turns, and then we wonder, whydid that experience happen?
Why did I do this?
So it was my training as aproject manager who sees
projects, who analyzes things,who builds relationships, who

(08:38):
you know, looks for you knowopportunities to you know engage
with others.
I was like, you know, there'sthere's two paths, you know, one
is oh, sell it, retire, pay offall your kids' student loans,
whatever.
Or it's kind of like, you know,what do you have?
How does it represent you andthe community?

(09:00):
So I took the community route,which, you know, was a little
interesting route.
But over the past, it's beenabout a little over a year, I've
been able to do two exhibitionswhere I've been able to kind of
um work with uh University ofWisconsin-Milwaukee art African
art professor to actuallycurate.

(09:21):
I curated about 27 pieces ofwhat I have and been able to
showcase them in community umbasically for free as part of a
grant that I was luckily able toget.
I was able to teach threecohorts of students um over the
summer, including College forKids, where we taught what we

(09:41):
learned about a piece, welearned a little bit about the
history and had their kids diveinto their own history, their
own ancestry.
Because I had a diverse group ofkids from different, you know,
backgrounds, and they could tella little bit about their own
story too, and we could talkabout how these masks were used
for celebrations and what aresome of the celebrations that
they use in order to drill thecamaraderie amongst the kids.

(10:05):
So I've had a really, reallyincredible journey and
experiences that I don't think Iwould have had had I you know
kept going down the samebusiness track.
And just like a week ago, I wasmeeting at the field museum in
Chicago with the African artcurator who's overseeing the new
exhibition that they're buildingin a field museum and seeing

(10:27):
behind the scenes and talkingabout potential opportunities.
So just things that I I get todo now in spaces that I get to
go to that I don't think I wouldhave been able to do, you know,
a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
All because I actually think two things, and I
wonder if I wonder if you'veunpacked this even personally
yourself.
The first thing is that you werecourageous and bold to not take
the easy route.
Easy route for a whole lot ofpeople would pay off debt, set

(11:03):
up kids, or honor this as aunique asset.
You chose the harder of the two.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is you chose tobe a good steward of it for the
greater good.
And you know, launching theseprograms and these initiatives
that inspire other kids, otherpeople to understand their own

(11:28):
core, their own lineage, theirown legacies.
Um the cultural expression isamazing.
Those are two big, big things.
Have you have you stopped tothink about that?
Or is it are you just full flow?

SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
No, no, I mean that about it because the first
thing, like, you know, you callyour parents and I'm talking to
my dad, and I'm like, Dad, I gotall these things, and some of
them have been appraised for abit.
Yeah, and he was like, sell it,you know, like like hands down,
sell it, you know, which I thinkin the long run, I mean the

(12:04):
short run, yes, because I've hadmuseums want to, you know, want
them.
I've had, you know, art dealers,you know, ask me several times
to consign or sell it.
So I, you know, I've hadindividuals wanting to buy
pieces.
So, you know, not to say I'llnever ever do anything like
that, but I think the return inthe long run, because I am it's

(12:27):
still an investment.
So I still can do exhibitions, Ican still do programming, I can
still utilize this access, um,you know, to do other things
too.
So it's not like it's just notdoing anything for me.
So it's a vehicle to otherthings, it's just a little bit
different um pathway to getthere.

SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
So you probably know all about this, but I've been
doing some research on thebenefits of art.
And, you know, for so long, I'vebeen a student of the art,
right?
Studying, um, studying dance andand doing so for many, many
years, and then encouraging mychildren um to leverage art um

(13:15):
performance as well.
And one of one of my kids umjust took that to the next level
on her own.
But I do understand the impactthat it has to bring celebration
and joy.
But as I started to do theresearch, there's science out
there, longitudinal studies thathave been done right now that

(13:36):
say the impact of a healthy artlife on our life can be the
difference of 14 years, addinghealthy years to your life.
In fact, the study speaks to itdecreases stress when you have a
regular participation with art.

(13:57):
It helps you to m regulate yourmood, it increases social
engagement, it increasescognitive stimulation, it
increases a physical activation.
It literally moves you.
Girl, when I read that, I waslike, what?
Like no days when I need to goto the gym?

SPEAKER_00 (14:16):
Yeah, no, I do feel I like I do feel like now.
I mean, you haven't seen me withlike braids and like red
glasses.
It's like, what is this?
So it's just like I think it, Ido, I think overall feel better.
Like I think it's um, yeah, andit's it's like you're saying an
artist.
Like you don't do art obviouslyfor the money, you do it because

(14:37):
it makes you feel good.
You do it for the passion, youdo it how it engages others.
And when I have classes and likeand I was I'm fortunate to have
um a relative of mine is uh ablack artist for Marvel Comics
who illustrated one of mypieces, and the kids take an
illustration of one of myartifacts and they learn about

(15:00):
it, but then they use thetemplate that we use, like a
drawing, and come up with theirown expression for themselves.
And sometimes we use umwatercolor or move or we use
pencils.
We talked about nature where Ibrought in sticks and leaves,
and kids can be creative.
And then what I do is I teachthem how um to become little

(15:24):
junior curators.
So they learn about medium, theylearn about you know what
materials did they use, theprocess they used, and then I
let them actually become artistswhere they get to showcase their
work.
So when I did a week-long classlast summer at UWM, I partnered
with uh Mathis Gallery, which isthe gallery within the art

(15:47):
history um department building.
And the kids had their ownexhibition where they got to
dress up like artists, whateverthat looked like.
And we gave them all their ownlittle pedestal and all the
kids, and they had a little tagwith their name and the name of
their piece and the materialsthey use, and they got to
showcase their art for theprofessors and their parents and

(16:09):
other kids, and have a littlemini reception at the end.
So it was something that thekids could feel good about, and
they also worked on you know,grouping things that are
dissimilar.
They worked on theirpresentation skills, so there's
all the there's a bunch ofskills that were learned kind of
through play by using art.
And so that was something thatwas really, really interesting

(16:31):
that had not been done on campusbefore, where the kids actually
had a chance to be, you know,little mini exhibitors and
actually tour gallery.
We did a behind-the-scenes tourof a gallery.
So, kids, depending on yourinterests, because kids have
different interests.
Some kids like to be attract,some kids like to be behind.
So I thought by letting the kidssee the behind the scenes, how

(16:55):
gallery works, also how to draw,they got to be creative and do
the curation piece.
Then maybe kids could find aplace that would appeal to them,
that they want to, you know,spark something in them that
could do something else goingforward.
So that's why I kind of like todo it a couple different ways so
kids can kind of feel get inwhere they get in, you know, fit

(17:17):
in.
And some kids were really big onhistory.
Some kids weren't really big ontrying, but they love the
historical part, or they lovethe nature part, or they love
the presentation part.
So that's just something that Itry to give vehicle for people
to.

SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
That's a good point because I think with so much
defunding um in some of oureducational programs in schools,
um, there's a new opportunityfor systems and structures to
come into place that don't losethese fundamental core offerings
for the kids, right?

(17:51):
Because if I'm sitting hereacknowledging all the studied,
proven health effects of art inyour life holistically as an
adult, then what would that meanfor the next generation to
establish that as a norm?
One thing I can say as a mom ofthree, maybe it means they put

(18:13):
down the digital social mediajust for a moment, right?
And and certainly the samethings for us.
What do you what do you thinkabout some of the shifts that
are happening right now thatwill come to make art more
prominent, um, maybe even as aninvestor, right?
So um, you know, with withcrypto and and and digital um

(18:38):
Bitcoin and and things of thelike, um, there are NFTs, there
are all sorts of new creativeways to consider if you know,
expounding upon your investmentphilosophy.
Um do you do you see that thereare gonna be any particular
trends that emerge?
Do you think it will be ofcultural relevance?

(18:59):
Are we in a cultural season?
Um, do you think that um maybejust in true art fashion it
could it's gonna just resonatewith the heartbeat of what's
going on now?
Like I'd love to get just yourfree thinking on, you know, how
do how do we think aboutinvesting in art um for the
future?

SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Well, I think one thing is I know like with the
tokens and all that, I think atthe end of the day, I think
people like to physically havethings.
Maybe that's just me.
I'm just more old school, but Iwould I mean, I think it's one
thing to see it on your phone,or it's one thing to see it,
whatever.
But I I really think having apiece of art actually and seeing

(19:41):
it, yeah, it actually means alot um more.
One thing that I've learned whenI've been um just kind of going
through this journey andactually working with artists
and and you know, differentpeople who are in this art
industry is that a lot of timespeople don't value your work
till you're super old or goneeven.
And so one thing I would love tosee, which I don't know how to

(20:05):
solve for this, is reallysupporting those young artists
now.

unknown (20:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
So they don't have to wait.
Because a lot of times what I'veseen or what people have said is
that you can have an artistwho's great.

SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
But unfortunately, people wait until they're 80 and
then they buy it, and then thefamily doesn't recognize how
great they are when they pass.
All of that great art goes tosomebody else who makes way.

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (20:31):
I think about you know, like nobody bought
anything as artists I core.
So I just think investing inartists and and paying them for
their work.
Yes.
And and you know, and like I'mworking with a couple of places,
and one place in Madison is islooking at building a new space
for, you know, just community, acultural center.

(20:52):
And I met with the woman who'skind of in charge of all of that
program, and they actually haveyou know a pretty nice stipend
for the artists to come andcurate the space.
So I think just you know, payingartists, seeing what their
value, and then you look at thehistory of artists, a lot of
artists captured things um inthat time period.

(21:16):
Like a lot of it was likesocially, you know, um, you
know, voice type of in their artand a way to rebel against the
things that were going on intheir government or around in
their society.
So we may see more of that, butI think in general, I think if
people would invest in artistsnow, or at least if you have

(21:39):
invite them to exhibit, youknow, don't try to shortchange
them.
And then I know it's it's sohard to see what's valued and
what's not, it's kind of up tothe person, but I just hate to
see older, especially olderminority artists suffer and not
make any money until they passor until they're really old to
even enjoy and be appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Well, even young ones.
So when you were talking, Ithought of Andy Warhol and
right.
Uh I mean, his art right now isstill toiling around, you know,
the world.
So much of it, I think, is ownedby one gentleman in Dallas at
this point, where you know,you're talking significant value

(22:22):
on that art where this young manlost his life early.
Um I also think though, and andI I know that that this isn't
necessarily enough time to solvefor, but kind of as you said,
thinking about the solution, theproblem solution, right?
Is the the artist is producingnow.

(22:48):
Art is yielding a value to thebeholder now.
So how do you connect in a freemarket capitalist society the
fact that the artist has donecommendable work and the value

(23:09):
is visible and seen by thebeholder, right?
And so it feels to me as afinance person like straight
math of you know understandingthe cost and understanding that
exponential value that'sreceived now.
And then if you go back to thatstudy and you say the
intangibles that go along withart in our lives, around our

(23:34):
lives, you can't put a price tagaround mood regulation.
You can't put a price tag aroundcognitive stimulation, right?
And so if we take all of thosethings and layer them in, I
think that would be rather,rather interesting.
Well, look, um there's more forus to talk about because I
really want to think um thinktogether with you about the

(23:57):
cultural components of art.
Um I think about the Renaissancemoments in history where art has
just come forward as quitefrankly the catalyst for change,
the catalyst for connection.
Um I would love to spend sometime just kind of unpacking some

(24:19):
of the historical impacts thatarts and culture and society is
known to have had, right?
And it helps that you're theprofessor right now in the
school because you know you're agood professor.
I'm a student, I'm a schoolstudent.
I've already promoted you to thenext level.
That's how that works.
Like, I'm not there yet.
I'm still on the journey.

(24:41):
My proven not perfect crew ofall-stars, y'all know.
I I promote my people, right?
I promote my people.
I ride and my people ride forme, and and I'm so grateful for
that.
Um, Kenji, look, um, I thinkthis is amazing that you're able
to share just what comes withthe, I'm gonna say the

(25:04):
selflessness when you are, whenyou f when any of us, and and
this happens to be aconversation about around art,
but in general, there's aselflessness and a kindness
that's required for us to reapall of the abundance that's
available for us.

(25:25):
And because you chose to see twooptions in a door, and you chose
the selfless one, the kind one,I just believe you chose the
abundant door, right?
And I'm so proud of you, and Ican't wait to talk more with you
about the impact of art aroundthe world.

(25:46):
But if folks want to see yourart and experience some of your
early work, where can they findyou on socials or internet?
Tell us how to find you.

SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Sure.
So I have a website, it's inKenji, n K E N G E gallery.com.
And I'm also on LinkedIn atKenji, which is K-E-N-G-E Adams,
and um our gallery in KenjiAddams is also on LinkedIn as
well.
So you can check us out there.

SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Awesome.
And then next question becausesomebody's gonna ask when they
see something and they behold itand they fall in love, are your
pieces for sale or not at themoment?

SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
No, still no, not for the moment.
So right now, what I'm doing isI'm open for exhibitions, I'm
open for talks, I'm open fordiscussing childhood and um
youth programming.
Those are the type of, and I canbring my pieces and share there.
Yes, but right now it's still aprivate collection as of now.

(26:49):
So we're gonna set the date.

SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Okay.
I am um shortly going to belaunching a series in-person
live, uh, partnered with apretty special um uh location
here in South Florida, and loveto have you and your pieces and
to create space for um the themirroring of exhibition and

(27:14):
conversation.
So are you up for that?
Putting you on the sure.
Absolutely.
See, I told y'all is my crew.

SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
So yeah.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
Excellent.
Okay, well, thank you so much.
Have a wonderful, wonderful restof the day.
And uh, I just can't wait tillall the for all the things that
are on their way to come.
All right.
Blessed you and the family.

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Art, Ancestry, And A Bold Pivot Conversation with Serial Entrepreneur Nkenge Adams

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