February 9, 2025 • 35 mins
This episode explores the complex realities of caregiving, focusing on the sandwich generation—the caregivers juggling responsibilities for both their children and aging relatives. With insights from Sue Ryan, we discuss self-care strategies, workplace transparency, and the importance of community support in navigating this demanding journey.
• Understanding the sandwich generation and its pressures
• Importance of transparency in caregiving within the workplace
• Strategies for self-care as essential for caregivers
• The role of community support and accepting help
• Introducing the Caregiver's Journey initiative for resources and guidance
Drive, Ambition, Doing, Leading, Creating... all good until we forget about our own self-care. This Village of All-Stars pays it forward with transparency about misses and celebration in winning. We cover many topics and keep it 100. We are Proven Not Perfect™️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, proven Not Perfect.
This is Chantrapal, your host.
I'm so glad that you're herewith me today.
I believe this conversation isa really important one, and I
believe it's going to be ahealing one for so many and an
informative one for others.
I'm talking about caregiving,and I'm talking with Sue Ryan.
Sue Ryan has been a caregiverfor over 40 years and she's now
(00:23):
co-founding the caregiver'sjourney with a partner,
including a podcast, otherresources, classes, courses, all
the things, and I think that ifyou have not been touched by
this, um, it's highly likelythat you will when you hear the
stats of how many of us aremanaging this turn in life.
(00:46):
It, it.
It can certainly be a beautifulseason, a blessed season, but
there are strategies to help youto navigate it and to emerge on
the back end with nothing butbeautiful, happy memories.
So, hey, I uh, I have no moreto say on this Enjoy this
podcast.
Proven Not Perfect with SueRyan of Sue Ryan Solutions.
(01:07):
Let me know what you think.
Proven Not Perfect, hi Sue.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hi Chantra.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
It's so nice to have you here.
I am really looking forward tothis conversation.
We'll just jump right in, andthe thesis that I'll just kind
of put out there for us is andthat's been on my mind is very
much captured in this WallStreet Journal article in
October where they highlightjust some really interesting
(01:40):
facts.
So one more Americans shouldera double load of caring for
their children and at least oneadult Literally blew my mind.
There is about 11 million 11million in the US alone who
qualify as the sandwichgeneration, people that are
(02:04):
caring up and down right fortheir kids and then for adults.
They're saying that it'sdemographic shifts, it's cost,
it's work, it's so many thingsthat it's impacting.
But, that blows my mind.
Tell me what you think aboutthis new statistic that is
becoming increasingly more, youknow, transparent to many of us,
(02:30):
who perhaps did not realize theimpact.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, the term sandwich generation actually
originated in 1981 by a womanwho was a social worker a social
worker and it was.
She was talking about theadditional pressures that adults
have where they're sandwichedin the middle with caring for
children and then caring fortheir aging parents.
And as medicine is keeping moreof our family members alive
(02:57):
longer, we're now creatingmultiple sandwich generations
and I'll I'll walk throughquickly what they are.
I actually created one myself.
So we've got the traditionalsandwich generation, that's got
people in the forties to sixtiesaverage, with the children,
younger children and the agingadults.
And then I created the paninigeneration, which is younger
(03:21):
people in their twenties andthirties who are kind of pressed
because they've got earlycareer development.
They're beginning families,maybe they've got a small child
and they have, some of themadult siblings they're caring
for, as well as aging parentsand sometimes grandparents.
So they have multiplegenerations they're caring for
(03:42):
while also working with theircareer and their families.
Then the next one is called theclub sandwich.
I love that.
Someone else coined that.
The club sandwich, yes, andthat gets into the three or four
generations where you've gotthe adults and they've got their
parents and other loved ones,oftentimes now the grandparent
(04:02):
because they're living longer.
And then they've got often nowadult children who have not left
home, and they've got youngerchildren.
So we're getting into wherethere are four generations, and
that again can be, you know,like between the 40s and 60s.
And then they've got the openface sandwich, which is people
who become caregivers whoactually don't have family,
they're not caring for theirfamily.
(04:23):
It started off maybe they werebringing in the newspaper for
their neighbor and then, hey,I'm going to run to the store,
can I get you something?
And they started doing more andmore things for a neighbor who
didn't have anyone nearby.
And so there are a variety ofdifferent generations now of
caregivers.
And the reason that theycreated this Chantra is because
(04:44):
the needs are a little bitdifferent.
For example, if you're in your20s and 30s, you're looking at
the lens of finances differentlythan if you're in your 50s.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, you are.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And you've got different kinds of caregiving
structures around it.
So what they did is they helpedit so that you could categorize
where you are and get the kindof care you need, whether it's
financial or resource, orpartners and teams.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So this is fascinating because, honestly, I
am convinced most of us don'tfirst of all realize that, if
you are in a caregivingsituation, that you're not alone
, right?
And I'm sure that most of usdon't realize how many
qualifications of that actuallyexist, right?
(05:29):
So how did you come to know somuch about this caregiving
network?
Sandwich generation.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Sure, when I was in my early 20s, my first
caregiving journey began, anduntil my husband celebrated his
birthday into heaven last year.
I've been in a variety ofcaregiving roles throughout my
life, growing up, basically, andI had that also in parallel
with my professional career.
(06:01):
So I've been on a variety ofcaregiving roles Just a few of
them have included mygrandmother, my dad and my
husband, and I learned a lot,and one of the things I learned
is that when we have thesestatistics that we're hearing,
they're all conservative becauseI don't know about you, but
there's been no doctor's office,no legal paper, no place that
(06:23):
I've gone where there's been acheckbox that says I'm a family
caregiver.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
That's absolutely right.
I've not seen that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Not seen that and, for example, one of the numbers
that they throw out is that youknow there are more about 4
million family caregivers whoare actually under the age of 18
.
So when we talk aboutcaregivers, we're talking about
people of a variety of differentages, and I've been in all
those roles and I've done thatfor many, many years, so I've
(06:50):
learned a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So I think that more than qualifies you, but it also
I'm going to say this too as aprofessed woman of God and
faithful woman.
I honestly believe that wedon't even realize the journey
that we're having and how thatultimately plays into the voice
and the influence that weeventually will have in blessing
(07:14):
so many others, and so,certainly, the work that you
have done and the work that youare doing and going to do, I
think it's going to betremendous in its impact on so
many others.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
All right, Well, thank you, thank you very much,
and I completely agree with you,also as a person of faith, that
in my professional career, muchof what I did I was a
passionate communicator, which Istill am.
I was out communicating all ofthe time and I was also a
caregiver.
And now I have said, okay, ifyou're going to be a
(07:47):
communicator and you're going tohave this many caregiving
journeys and you care abouthelping other people, this is
what you're meant to do.
And so I feel now that I'm justliving my purpose, so I just
this is who I'm meant to be, andall of these experiences were
meant for me to be a vessel, achannel for the messages to come
out.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Wow.
Well, thank you for that.
Okay.
So here's what I'd like tomaybe get your thoughts on Sure,
three core areas.
I think about the caregiver andtheir career yes.
I think about the caregiver andtheir own health Yep.
Then I think about leadershipconsiderations, when you now
(08:32):
have an organization that canspan many and for sure this data
would say that you have morethan a few who are also
caregivers, right, yes?
And so those are sort of thethree things that I would love
to spend a little bit of timeunpacking with you.
Sure, does that sound?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
okay, absolutely, I can talk to you on all three of
those yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Where would you like to begin?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So let's start with the caregiver and career.
So how transparent do youbelieve a caregiver who's in
their career experience shouldbe with their employer, with
their manager, with their teamsabout what they're going through
(09:24):
?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Chantra.
Thank you.
That's such a perfect, perfect,perfect question to ask, having
had my entire professionalcareer when I was a family
caregiver, neverself-identifying because I
watched when other people hadand they were well, we can't
give you this, we're not goingto give you this promotion
because you've got all theseother responsibilities and you
(09:46):
need to focus your time thereand not being given the
opportunities.
Sometimes some people were letgo when they were letting having
people get, uh have, layoffs.
They also had people who werecaregivers, who the burden was
so much they had to cut back ontheir hours or actually leave
the workforce.
I really believe there's noreason why we shouldn't be able
(10:08):
to have that very candidconversation with people, and
here's part of the thing that Italk so much about with
caregiving.
We have already identifiedother groups of people who are
in temporary seasons of theirlives and we embrace it.
One of those is, for example,maternity leave.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So that's a great example, and so we talk about it
and the teams work togetherwith it and people navigate it.
Caregiving is very much thesame.
It's a temporary season and wedon't know how long it's going
to be.
It's certainly usually longerthan a maternity leave, but it's
something where this is atemporary season.
The caregivers don't want toleave the workforce, the
(10:48):
workforce doesn't want thecaregivers to leave, but if they
don't on either side, theycan't really provide the support
.
So the precedents have alreadybeen put into place for people
to be supported.
They recognize temporaryseasons.
I think everyone should shareit so the team members can work
things out which they've learnedhow to do.
Yes, Employers can learn how tonavigate with the caregiver and
(11:10):
and caregivers still want to beable to.
It was brutal for me, I willsay.
However, I did not want to stepaway from my career either.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I mean you work so hard, right?
I mean, in every one of thoseseasons that you talked about,
whether it's, you know, below 20and you're in college or
college bound, or your earlycareer, or you've put in the
work and now you know you're atleadership levels, right, you've
worked so hard and I wouldimagine that one of the things
(11:43):
that many face is how do I makesure that I don't get counted
out, right?
So I think, as a leader, kindof now looking at it from the
leadership viewpoint, I'd loveto know your thoughts on what
can a leader do, because a lotof times we got to talk about
(12:05):
the power, right and influenceand so, depending on where you
are on that journey, yourcomfort level being transparent
with your situation and yourneeds may vary, right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I think it's the leadership responsibility in
that.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Love this question and Chantra.
One of the things aboutcaregiving is caregiving doesn't
discriminate.
Yeah, caregiving doesn't careif you're the CEO chairman of
the board, doesn't care if youare an entry-level working
employee.
Doesn't care where you are.
So one of the things thatencourages leaders to be
transparent encourages leadersto share, and some of them have
(12:46):
done a fabulous job of talkingabout the impacts of it Indra
Nooyi, the former CEO of PepsiCo, talking about the phenomenal
burdens on her while she wasworking and caring for her aging
parents.
So leaders have the opportunityto model the inclusivity of
(13:07):
family caregivers and often indoing that, they're sharing
their own experience.
And when you look dollars andcents, wise people talk so much
about well, you've got thisdifferent group, but they're
going to be singled out, andthen why isn't the company going
to be dealing with me as well?
Caregiving covers every kind ofa demographic.
(13:30):
It covers it doesn't care howold or young you are.
It doesn't care what your raceis.
It doesn't care what color yourhair is.
It doesn't care about anything.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It doesn't care about any of those things.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So it's kind of like the great equalizer, and so in
an organization it's very easyfor people to step into
recognizing the inclusion of itas a priority for having us be
able to work effectivelytogether so?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
so it sounds like a couple of things.
One, a leader must model thebehavior that they expect to see
by their team.
Yes, including theinclusiveness of the needs of
(14:21):
the team is what I'm hearing yousay.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It is because it's not just about the caregiver,
it's the caregiver and the teamand everyone else.
And yet all of them can worktogether.
Yeah, if the team, if the teamknows that there is someone who
has caregiving responsibilities,you're like okay, how do we
work together?
And the teams work together todo that, and that's what some
companies are really modelingwell.
(14:45):
So if the leadership team hasembraced the fact that we're
going to have open, you know,self-identification is going to
be very open in our company andthat is key.
And it does start at the CEOlevel, at the very highest level
of leadership, to open thosedoors to everyone.
And then, when that happens, alot of it is organic, because
(15:09):
people have already figured outhow to work together in a lot of
situations.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I wonder if, being the controversial devil's
advocate on this one, you know,we live in such an environment
of business where it is month in, it is quarter end, it is, you
know, annual performance, andcertainly if you are a public
(15:35):
company or otherwise, right, Iwonder if some of that deters
the willingness to be so openabout it.
Many companies, but even inthat instance, though, I would
imagine that the best companies,the ones that have that loyal
employee, that engaged employee,sees this also as another
(16:00):
opportunity for inclusiveness.
What do you think of that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
it's absolutely the examples of some of the major
organizations that are out thereand and what they've done and
how they're embracing it isreally huge.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Google the practices they have and and, uh, price
waterhouse, other major, majororganizations, any examples that
hit you um that you could kindof share with us that, uh, folks
might think about.
One of the ones that I'll giveyou is one of share with us that
folks might think about.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
One of the ones that I'll give you is one of the ones
that Google has.
They're very, very open aboutthat and what they've got is
they've got technologies inplace and procedures in place so
that it's very transparentabout where anyone is working.
And then, if you're going tohave responsibilities and that
are going to hold you back, theyhave multiple sets of backup
(16:50):
plans.
So they've got differentcontingency plans so people all
have access to it.
Several other things they'vedone and other companies have
done which are brilliant.
You can, you can donate some ofyour paid time off hours for a
pool for caregivers if they needextra time off, and the other
thing that they're incorporatingis fabulous.
(17:12):
The other thing they'reincorporating is hey, so let's
say, for example, you've got acouple hours a week you can
volunteer to provide respitecare for another employee's
family.
So they're doing things thatare helping people, because
people want to help.
So they're saying you know,this is something that we could
benefit from.
Now they're not limiting it tocaregiving.
(17:33):
It's, you know, does somebodyneed some help?
But it's a pool, but theyacknowledge it in the caregiving
space.
So companies are embracing waysto engage each other have
candid and open conversationsabout it so that it just becomes
a way of life, just as otherthings that preceded it in the
years before have already done.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's excellent, all right.
So now, with those things inmind and thinking about the
caregiver personally speaking,and really tapping into the
experiences that you've hadmultiple times, how does the
caregiver take care ofthemselves?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Thank you for asking that question.
I talk a lot about.
Self-care is not selfish.
Self-care is self-love and thespeaking from personal
experience, from someone wholearned the hard way.
I now really, really, reallyencourage people not to shave
(18:39):
off self-care, which is so easyfor us to do.
And then there was a period oftime where people said, oh yeah,
women are first to do this.
I will tell you, I know enoughmen who've done it as well.
So this is this is not a man orwoman kind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I'm so glad you said that because you know being
being privileged to to be aleader of people.
I'll tell you, you nailed itwhen you said there is no
discriminating fact, right?
You nailed it when you saidthere is no discriminating fact,
right?
And men are managing this asmuch as women are, quite frankly
.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
They really are.
They're managing it as well.
And I hear story after storyafter story.
And what happens on theself-care side is it's easy for
any of us to shave off a littlebit.
We've got more responsibilities.
Well, you know, I'll shave thisoff.
Mine was, you know, I'm a gymperson six days a week and I was
(19:33):
like, well, I don't have to goevery day and I can go every
other day.
So I shaved that off a littlebit.
And then, as moreresponsibilities came, well,
I'll wait until after my husbandgoes to bed and then I'll do
the finances, because he wantsto do them but he doesn't really
do them, right.
So I'm shaving off a littlesleep, I'm shaving off a little
all of those things.
And then one day and I'll tellyou this very, very quickly, but
one day I had fixed his lunchsandwich and potato chips and
(19:55):
they're sitting there and hestarts to eat them and he
dropped a potato chip on thefloor.
Now, who cares about a potatochip on the floor?
He dropped a potato chip on thefloor and and I inside, I have
what I call the grace of space,which is that small gap of time
between what goes on inside andwhat comes out outside has a
chance to pause and determine ifthey really want to say that.
(20:16):
So in my head I'm going.
I can't believe that you droppeda potato chip.
I worked all this time.
I've been up since the crack ofdawn doing all these things for
you and blah, blah, blah, blah,which is not a part of anything
I would ever think and feel.
So I had no idea where thateven came from.
But fortunately, what came outof my mouth, because of grace of
space, is, I said honey, here'ssome more chips.
(20:36):
I'm going to go in the nextroom for a minute and I'll be
right back.
Enjoy your sandwich.
I went, I sat down, I said whatjust happened.
And so we, we don't know whatit is, we don't know, and it's
so important for us to practiceself-care and for those of us
who don't feel like we'reequipped to do that, we get an
accountability partner and yousay hold me accountable to
(20:59):
practicing self-care, make sureI am telling you what I'm doing
and make sure I'm doing it,because when we're only
accountable to ourselves, Idon't know about you.
Yeah, but you know it's prettyeasy for me to justify something
, especially if it was reallygood chocolate, but for me for a
lot of times it was self-care,and we can't do that Because
nobody else can practiceself-care for us.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, oh, my God.
Honestly, like one of thethings you said, the things you
begin to shave off are thethings that you probably need
the most right Sleep exercise.
I know some wonderfulcaregivers who are so focused on
(21:51):
making sure that who they'recaring for gets well fed and
well nourished.
And then you say, what did youeat?
And you know, while it might'vebeen healthy, was it as much as
you should?
Because there's that element ofanxiety that maybe takes away
the appetite.
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, there are a couple sides of that.
One, you're fixing the meal forthem, so you're fixing
something that they're going toeat, not as much as what you'd
want to eat.
What are they going to eat?
Well, then you're gettingeverything ready for them.
Yes, and for part of thejourney, you're going to be
feeding them.
Yes, so you're preparing thefood, maybe you them.
Yes, so you're preparing thefood, maybe you're sampling it.
While they're doing, then you'resitting and supporting them
(22:28):
being able to eat, and thenyou're cleaning up and you're
also caring for them, becauseyou've got to have the what
happens after dinner, beforethey go to bed.
So you've got the dishes to do,you've got those things to do.
So for me, a lot of times, mymeal was as I'm scraping the pan
, eating a little something, oras I'm fixing it.
So it's not that you're sittingdown there having that relaxing
(22:50):
meal with a conversation.
So that's a really, really goodpoint.
You know, it's all of thosethings and then things you know,
like you know trimming your ownnails.
You know you're trimming yourloved one's nails.
You're not doing all of theseother kinds of things and it,
but it's also doing things thatare healthy for you mentally
(23:10):
reading a book or just havingsome quiet time, or with
professional development?
I'm shaving off professionaldevelopment things because I
don't have time to studysomething.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know what comes to mind as you speak to, and I
don't know if this falls in thecareer category or the health
category, maybe blend of the two.
But I know that it also can beeasy, because you have this one
lane that's pulling so much, tobe a bit um, uh, uh cautious
(23:51):
about what else you add to theplate that could be helping you
for your own personaladvancement.
Right, and I think thatprobably falls in the career
lane for some, the health lanefor others.
But what do you think aboutthat?
Because it really is.
You said something earlier thatit's a scenario where it's not
(24:13):
time bound, like the nine month,you know, pregnancy and maybe
three month maternity leave.
Right, it's not time bound.
It could be, you know, a coupleof years, it could be 12 years.
Right, it could be all thingsin between, certainly not at the
same density level, which isthe grace of the whole thing.
(24:33):
But I wonder what your thoughtsare for someone that's
listening, who is absolutely,you know, thinking through how
they're navigating and their ownhealthy factors, and they're
saying but Sue, how do Inavigate the things that I'm
drawn to and want to do, but Istill have this extra thing,
(24:59):
right?
Do you pause on your life or doyou live your life in tandem
and come up with support andsolutions to allow that?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It's a both and Chantra it's a both, and Every
diagnosis is different and theseasons of the diagnosis are
going to be different for everyperson, and I'm going to answer
part of the question in a moment.
The thing I want to make sure Ireally kick it off with is, as
you would do, as I would do, ifyou saw someone and you felt
they needed support.
You would say hey, can I helpyou?
(25:30):
Is there anything I could do to?
If you saw someone and you feltthey needed support, you would
say, hey, can I help you?
Is there anything I could do tohelp you?
When you know someone isnavigating, okay, well, there's
a season in our lives wherewe're offering that.
There is also a season in ourlives where we could be the
recipient of that.
So the first place that I'mgoing to start with your answer
(25:52):
is, if somebody offers help, sayyes, thank you.
Now, what I did is I made alist of things that if somebody
had five minutes, what couldthey do?
If somebody had 10 minutes,what could they do If they had a
half an hour, if they had anhour, if they had half a day.
So I had different kinds ofthings that people offered to
help and I kind of knew peoplearound me who might be offering
(26:14):
to help, so I've had specificthings.
So if they said, may I help you, I could say yes.
So when people offer help, bein this season of receiving and
don't go oh I feel so guilty,don't.
Or oh I feel so bad, I don'twant to burden anybody else.
They wouldn't offer.
If it was a burden, they wouldthey ought.
So the first answer to yourquestion is when somebody offers
(26:37):
, the second one is it's goingto help.
It's going to impact differentareas of your life in different
amounts during the caregivingjourney, depending on what
season of the caregiving journeyyou are in, and so there will
be times.
I intentionally chose to putsomething I'm passionate about
up on the shelf during mycaregiving season, and that's
(27:00):
travel.
I'm a very passionate travelerand what I realized is the world
was still going to be aroundwhen I didn't have my caregiving
journey anymore.
So I chose to put so there's noemotion around it.
It's like okay, I didn't resentit, I didn't wish I could.
It was like no, and I heardstories from other people and
it's like great, and we used toshare caregiving or our trip
(27:23):
information with each other.
We'd look at TV shows or thingslike that to show that.
So there's that part of it thatyou intentionally put pieces of
that.
You also evaluate where you canhave support from other people.
So is there a professional whocould come in so that you have
capacity to if you're still abusiness professional that and
(27:43):
you've got to work that you havecapacity to be doing that.
So you evaluate whether it's inyour personal life that you
want to make sure you aregetting to the gym and that
means you bring someone in foran hour or for half a day so you
can get certain things done andyou evaluate what those pieces
are.
And the other thing is youdon't evaluate them in a vacuum.
There are support groups thatare local support groups.
(28:06):
There are people who've been onthe journey.
A lot of people want to help,and so you don't have to
navigate it around all.
You don't have to navigate italone and you don't have to have
all the answers there.
Help us all around.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I love it.
No, that's right on, so.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe resource group that you are
now co-founding in in theinfluencer caregiving space, in
the influencer caregiving space.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yes, what my co-founder, nancy Treister, and
I did is.
We founded the Caregiver'sJourney, and I had originally
started the Caregiver's Journeybecause I really felt strongly
about helping people navigatetheir entire journey, from when
they saw it on the horizon orwhen it first began, all the way
through moving forward afterour care receiver has passed
(28:57):
away.
And I got started with that.
Nancy and I worked together manyyears ago.
She and her husband and I allworked together and we were
neighbors for a period of time.
He developed a type of dementiaas well, and she would call me
with caregiving questions.
She was struggling to findanswers online and she had her
(29:18):
husband at home and so it wasn'tas convenient to go physically
to a support group.
So she was trying to findthings online and I said, well,
I've always wanted to start apodcast, I have an award-winning
course for navigating thecaregiving journey, I do the
blogs and all, and so we decidedto partner together and to
create all of these programs forthe caregiver's journey to help
(29:42):
people navigate all the phasesof their caregiving journey, and
my one of my big passions ishelping businesses and family
caregivers thrive together.
What does it look like to help afamily caregiver continue to
work and make sure the businessis thriving too.
Well, this is not all about thebusiness and it's not all about
the caregiver.
How do we make that work?
(30:03):
And so we're doing that.
We're in the process of gettingready to write another book.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, so the podcast is something that we're enjoying
doing, and blogs and thingslike that.
What's?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
the name of the podcast and what's the blog.
You got to give us all thedeets.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
All right, the deets.
The podcast is called theCaregiver's Journey Practical
Tips and Candid Conversations,and I promise you because the
two of us are very direct peopleyes, we are very direct when we
talk about it.
She had questions aboutincontinence.
We are very direct when we talkabout it.
She had questions aboutincontinence, her husband's
incontinence.
She was having struggles withthings we could.
She couldn't find anythingonline.
(30:37):
We did a podcast episode on itand I was, I was the uh, I was
the model, but it's how do youchange and depend when you, when
you're, and so we talk aboutdifferent parts of the
experience.
We just finished one on travel.
You know, when do you know toquit, stop, to quit stop, to
(31:02):
quit traveling, quit, stop.
And part of what?
Because part of what we bothhad is we had the trip after the
last, what should have been thelast trip.
So that last trip that was sobrutal.
We both had that and we want toprevent people from having that
.
And so it's eating, it'swandering, it's taking the car
keys away.
It's practical tips and we justget right down in and very
direct about them.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
This is so needed.
This is so good.
I think that this is going tobe such a handy podcast and tool
and resource that you guys aredoing.
Thank you for doing it.
Thank you so, so much for thegenerous sharing that you've
done here with us today as well.
(31:41):
I can't imagine that there'snot a little applause that are
going on around the world fromlisteners who are grappling with
this and trying to figure itout.
But there are a couple ofthemes that seem to resonate.
One is that we have to rememberwho we are and how to stay
(32:04):
healthy and strong in thisjourney in time.
You also talk a little bitabout the opportunity to show up
and let people know what yoursituation is and be bold in
doing so, and also to receiveand ask for help.
Those are just a few of thenuggets, but there's so many
(32:26):
more.
Wow.
What else would you tell us,just kind of as a parting gift?
What would you say is importantfor us to keep top of mind?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I practice something I call massive acceptance and
radical presence.
Massive acceptance is youaccept exactly what is the way
that it is.
You don't have to like it, youdon't have to agree with it, you
don't have to understand it,you just accept it without
judgment of yourself or others,the way that it is, which allows
you to stay.
The other side of it is radicalpresence is you're able to stay
(32:59):
fully, absolutely present inthe moment.
One of the things that manycaregivers lose sight of is that
, yes, there are challenges inour experience, and yet, when we
accept it for exactly what itis and we stay fully present,
there are moments of absolutejoy and absolute beauty in there
.
And so, if we are staying fullypresent and we accept our
(33:21):
journey, we can make the wisestchoices in the most challenging
situations, and yet we can fillour hearts with joy in even the
tiniest moments.
And they're there.
And the other part of it iswe're all on this journey
together.
You do not need to journeyalone.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Oh girl, the connectedness.
So you are beautiful inside andout and I think this work is
going to be beautiful work and Ithank you so much for being
generous and sharing with ProvenNot Perfect community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Thank you so much for all you do and for bringing
these messages to people.
I am so grateful for you in mylife.
I feel truly blessed.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Bye.
Hey, proven Not Perfect.
This is Chantrapal, your host.
I'm so glad that you're herewith me today.
I believe this conversation isa really important one, and I
believe it's going to be ahealing one for so many and an
informative one for others.
I'm talking about caregiving,and I'm talking with Sue Ryan.
Sue Ryan has been a caregiverfor over 40 years and she's now
(00:23):
co-founding the caregiver'sjourney with a partner,
including a podcast, otherresources, classes, courses, all
the things, and I think that ifyou have not been touched by
this, um, it's highly likelythat you will when you hear the
stats of how many of us aremanaging this turn in life.
(00:46):
It, it.
It can certainly be a beautifulseason, a blessed season, but
there are strategies to help youto navigate it and to emerge on
the back end with nothing butbeautiful, happy memories.
So, hey, I uh, I have no moreto say on this Enjoy this
podcast.
Proven Not Perfect with SueRyan of Sue Ryan Solutions.
(01:07):
Let me know what you think.
Proven Not Perfect, hi Sue.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Hi Chantra.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
It's so nice to have you here.
I am really looking forward tothis conversation.
We'll just jump right in, andthe thesis that I'll just kind
of put out there for us is andthat's been on my mind is very
much captured in this WallStreet Journal article in
October where they highlightjust some really interesting
(01:40):
facts.
So one more Americans shouldera double load of caring for
their children and at least oneadult Literally blew my mind.
There is about 11 million 11million in the US alone who
qualify as the sandwichgeneration, people that are
(02:04):
caring up and down right fortheir kids and then for adults.
They're saying that it'sdemographic shifts, it's cost,
it's work, it's so many thingsthat it's impacting.
But, that blows my mind.
Tell me what you think aboutthis new statistic that is
becoming increasingly more, youknow, transparent to many of us,
(02:30):
who perhaps did not realize theimpact.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, the term sandwich generation actually
originated in 1981 by a womanwho was a social worker a social
worker and it was.
She was talking about theadditional pressures that adults
have where they're sandwichedin the middle with caring for
children and then caring fortheir aging parents.
And as medicine is keeping moreof our family members alive
(02:57):
longer, we're now creatingmultiple sandwich generations
and I'll I'll walk throughquickly what they are.
I actually created one myself.
So we've got the traditionalsandwich generation, that's got
people in the forties to sixtiesaverage, with the children,
younger children and the agingadults.
And then I created the paninigeneration, which is younger
(03:21):
people in their twenties andthirties who are kind of pressed
because they've got earlycareer development.
They're beginning families,maybe they've got a small child
and they have, some of themadult siblings they're caring
for, as well as aging parentsand sometimes grandparents.
So they have multiplegenerations they're caring for
(03:42):
while also working with theircareer and their families.
Then the next one is called theclub sandwich.
I love that.
Someone else coined that.
The club sandwich, yes, andthat gets into the three or four
generations where you've gotthe adults and they've got their
parents and other loved ones,oftentimes now the grandparent
(04:02):
because they're living longer.
And then they've got often nowadult children who have not left
home, and they've got youngerchildren.
So we're getting into wherethere are four generations, and
that again can be, you know,like between the 40s and 60s.
And then they've got the openface sandwich, which is people
who become caregivers whoactually don't have family,
they're not caring for theirfamily.
(04:23):
It started off maybe they werebringing in the newspaper for
their neighbor and then, hey,I'm going to run to the store,
can I get you something?
And they started doing more andmore things for a neighbor who
didn't have anyone nearby.
And so there are a variety ofdifferent generations now of
caregivers.
And the reason that theycreated this Chantra is because
(04:44):
the needs are a little bitdifferent.
For example, if you're in your20s and 30s, you're looking at
the lens of finances differentlythan if you're in your 50s.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, you are.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And you've got different kinds of caregiving
structures around it.
So what they did is they helpedit so that you could categorize
where you are and get the kindof care you need, whether it's
financial or resource, orpartners and teams.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So this is fascinating because, honestly, I
am convinced most of us don'tfirst of all realize that, if
you are in a caregivingsituation, that you're not alone
, right?
And I'm sure that most of usdon't realize how many
qualifications of that actuallyexist, right?
(05:29):
So how did you come to know somuch about this caregiving
network?
Sandwich generation.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Sure, when I was in my early 20s, my first
caregiving journey began, anduntil my husband celebrated his
birthday into heaven last year.
I've been in a variety ofcaregiving roles throughout my
life, growing up, basically, andI had that also in parallel
with my professional career.
(06:01):
So I've been on a variety ofcaregiving roles Just a few of
them have included mygrandmother, my dad and my
husband, and I learned a lot,and one of the things I learned
is that when we have thesestatistics that we're hearing,
they're all conservative becauseI don't know about you, but
there's been no doctor's office,no legal paper, no place that
(06:23):
I've gone where there's been acheckbox that says I'm a family
caregiver.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
That's absolutely right.
I've not seen that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Not seen that and, for example, one of the numbers
that they throw out is that youknow there are more about 4
million family caregivers whoare actually under the age of 18
.
So when we talk aboutcaregivers, we're talking about
people of a variety of differentages, and I've been in all
those roles and I've done thatfor many, many years, so I've
(06:50):
learned a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So I think that more than qualifies you, but it also
I'm going to say this too as aprofessed woman of God and
faithful woman.
I honestly believe that wedon't even realize the journey
that we're having and how thatultimately plays into the voice
and the influence that weeventually will have in blessing
(07:14):
so many others, and so,certainly, the work that you
have done and the work that youare doing and going to do, I
think it's going to betremendous in its impact on so
many others.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
All right, Well, thank you, thank you very much,
and I completely agree with you,also as a person of faith, that
in my professional career, muchof what I did I was a
passionate communicator, which Istill am.
I was out communicating all ofthe time and I was also a
caregiver.
And now I have said, okay, ifyou're going to be a
(07:47):
communicator and you're going tohave this many caregiving
journeys and you care abouthelping other people, this is
what you're meant to do.
And so I feel now that I'm justliving my purpose, so I just
this is who I'm meant to be, andall of these experiences were
meant for me to be a vessel, achannel for the messages to come
out.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Wow.
Well, thank you for that.
Okay.
So here's what I'd like tomaybe get your thoughts on Sure,
three core areas.
I think about the caregiver andtheir career yes.
I think about the caregiver andtheir own health Yep.
Then I think about leadershipconsiderations, when you now
(08:32):
have an organization that canspan many and for sure this data
would say that you have morethan a few who are also
caregivers, right, yes?
And so those are sort of thethree things that I would love
to spend a little bit of timeunpacking with you.
Sure, does that sound?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
okay, absolutely, I can talk to you on all three of
those yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Where would you like to begin?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So let's start with the caregiver and career.
So how transparent do youbelieve a caregiver who's in
their career experience shouldbe with their employer, with
their manager, with their teamsabout what they're going through
(09:24):
?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Chantra.
Thank you.
That's such a perfect, perfect,perfect question to ask, having
had my entire professionalcareer when I was a family
caregiver, neverself-identifying because I
watched when other people hadand they were well, we can't
give you this, we're not goingto give you this promotion
because you've got all theseother responsibilities and you
(09:46):
need to focus your time thereand not being given the
opportunities.
Sometimes some people were letgo when they were letting having
people get, uh have, layoffs.
They also had people who werecaregivers, who the burden was
so much they had to cut back ontheir hours or actually leave
the workforce.
I really believe there's noreason why we shouldn't be able
(10:08):
to have that very candidconversation with people, and
here's part of the thing that Italk so much about with
caregiving.
We have already identifiedother groups of people who are
in temporary seasons of theirlives and we embrace it.
One of those is, for example,maternity leave.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So that's a great example, and so we talk about it
and the teams work togetherwith it and people navigate it.
Caregiving is very much thesame.
It's a temporary season and wedon't know how long it's going
to be.
It's certainly usually longerthan a maternity leave, but it's
something where this is atemporary season.
The caregivers don't want toleave the workforce, the
(10:48):
workforce doesn't want thecaregivers to leave, but if they
don't on either side, theycan't really provide the support
.
So the precedents have alreadybeen put into place for people
to be supported.
They recognize temporaryseasons.
I think everyone should shareit so the team members can work
things out which they've learnedhow to do.
Yes, Employers can learn how tonavigate with the caregiver and
(11:10):
and caregivers still want to beable to.
It was brutal for me, I willsay.
However, I did not want to stepaway from my career either.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I mean you work so hard, right?
I mean, in every one of thoseseasons that you talked about,
whether it's, you know, below 20and you're in college or
college bound, or your earlycareer, or you've put in the
work and now you know you're atleadership levels, right, you've
worked so hard and I wouldimagine that one of the things
(11:43):
that many face is how do I makesure that I don't get counted
out, right?
So I think, as a leader, kindof now looking at it from the
leadership viewpoint, I'd loveto know your thoughts on what
can a leader do, because a lotof times we got to talk about
(12:05):
the power, right and influenceand so, depending on where you
are on that journey, yourcomfort level being transparent
with your situation and yourneeds may vary, right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I think it's the leadership responsibility in
that.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Love this question and Chantra.
One of the things aboutcaregiving is caregiving doesn't
discriminate.
Yeah, caregiving doesn't careif you're the CEO chairman of
the board, doesn't care if youare an entry-level working
employee.
Doesn't care where you are.
So one of the things thatencourages leaders to be
transparent encourages leadersto share, and some of them have
(12:46):
done a fabulous job of talkingabout the impacts of it Indra
Nooyi, the former CEO of PepsiCo, talking about the phenomenal
burdens on her while she wasworking and caring for her aging
parents.
So leaders have the opportunityto model the inclusivity of
(13:07):
family caregivers and often indoing that, they're sharing
their own experience.
And when you look dollars andcents, wise people talk so much
about well, you've got thisdifferent group, but they're
going to be singled out, andthen why isn't the company going
to be dealing with me as well?
Caregiving covers every kind ofa demographic.
(13:30):
It covers it doesn't care howold or young you are.
It doesn't care what your raceis.
It doesn't care what color yourhair is.
It doesn't care about anything.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It doesn't care about any of those things.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So it's kind of like the great equalizer, and so in
an organization it's very easyfor people to step into
recognizing the inclusion of itas a priority for having us be
able to work effectivelytogether so?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
so it sounds like a couple of things.
One, a leader must model thebehavior that they expect to see
by their team.
Yes, including theinclusiveness of the needs of
(14:21):
the team is what I'm hearing yousay.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It is because it's not just about the caregiver,
it's the caregiver and the teamand everyone else.
And yet all of them can worktogether.
Yeah, if the team, if the teamknows that there is someone who
has caregiving responsibilities,you're like okay, how do we
work together?
And the teams work together todo that, and that's what some
companies are really modelingwell.
(14:45):
So if the leadership team hasembraced the fact that we're
going to have open, you know,self-identification is going to
be very open in our company andthat is key.
And it does start at the CEOlevel, at the very highest level
of leadership, to open thosedoors to everyone.
And then, when that happens, alot of it is organic, because
(15:09):
people have already figured outhow to work together in a lot of
situations.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I wonder if, being the controversial devil's
advocate on this one, you know,we live in such an environment
of business where it is month in, it is quarter end, it is, you
know, annual performance, andcertainly if you are a public
(15:35):
company or otherwise, right, Iwonder if some of that deters
the willingness to be so openabout it.
Many companies, but even inthat instance, though, I would
imagine that the best companies,the ones that have that loyal
employee, that engaged employee,sees this also as another
(16:00):
opportunity for inclusiveness.
What do you think of that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
it's absolutely the examples of some of the major
organizations that are out thereand and what they've done and
how they're embracing it isreally huge.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Google the practices they have and and, uh, price
waterhouse, other major, majororganizations, any examples that
hit you um that you could kindof share with us that, uh, folks
might think about.
One of the ones that I'll giveyou is one of share with us that
folks might think about.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
One of the ones that I'll give you is one of the ones
that Google has.
They're very, very open aboutthat and what they've got is
they've got technologies inplace and procedures in place so
that it's very transparentabout where anyone is working.
And then, if you're going tohave responsibilities and that
are going to hold you back, theyhave multiple sets of backup
(16:50):
plans.
So they've got differentcontingency plans so people all
have access to it.
Several other things they'vedone and other companies have
done which are brilliant.
You can, you can donate some ofyour paid time off hours for a
pool for caregivers if they needextra time off, and the other
thing that they're incorporatingis fabulous.
(17:12):
The other thing they'reincorporating is hey, so let's
say, for example, you've got acouple hours a week you can
volunteer to provide respitecare for another employee's
family.
So they're doing things thatare helping people, because
people want to help.
So they're saying you know,this is something that we could
benefit from.
Now they're not limiting it tocaregiving.
(17:33):
It's, you know, does somebodyneed some help?
But it's a pool, but theyacknowledge it in the caregiving
space.
So companies are embracing waysto engage each other have
candid and open conversationsabout it so that it just becomes
a way of life, just as otherthings that preceded it in the
years before have already done.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
That's excellent, all right.
So now, with those things inmind and thinking about the
caregiver personally speaking,and really tapping into the
experiences that you've hadmultiple times, how does the
caregiver take care ofthemselves?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Thank you for asking that question.
I talk a lot about.
Self-care is not selfish.
Self-care is self-love and thespeaking from personal
experience, from someone wholearned the hard way.
I now really, really, reallyencourage people not to shave
(18:39):
off self-care, which is so easyfor us to do.
And then there was a period oftime where people said, oh yeah,
women are first to do this.
I will tell you, I know enoughmen who've done it as well.
So this is this is not a man orwoman kind of a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I'm so glad you said that because you know being
being privileged to to be aleader of people.
I'll tell you, you nailed itwhen you said there is no
discriminating fact, right?
You nailed it when you saidthere is no discriminating fact,
right?
And men are managing this asmuch as women are, quite frankly
.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
They really are.
They're managing it as well.
And I hear story after storyafter story.
And what happens on theself-care side is it's easy for
any of us to shave off a littlebit.
We've got more responsibilities.
Well, you know, I'll shave thisoff.
Mine was, you know, I'm a gymperson six days a week and I was
(19:33):
like, well, I don't have to goevery day and I can go every
other day.
So I shaved that off a littlebit.
And then, as moreresponsibilities came, well,
I'll wait until after my husbandgoes to bed and then I'll do
the finances, because he wantsto do them but he doesn't really
do them, right.
So I'm shaving off a littlesleep, I'm shaving off a little
all of those things.
And then one day and I'll tellyou this very, very quickly, but
one day I had fixed his lunchsandwich and potato chips and
(19:55):
they're sitting there and hestarts to eat them and he
dropped a potato chip on thefloor.
Now, who cares about a potatochip on the floor?
He dropped a potato chip on thefloor and and I inside, I have
what I call the grace of space,which is that small gap of time
between what goes on inside andwhat comes out outside has a
chance to pause and determine ifthey really want to say that.
(20:16):
So in my head I'm going.
I can't believe that you droppeda potato chip.
I worked all this time.
I've been up since the crack ofdawn doing all these things for
you and blah, blah, blah, blah,which is not a part of anything
I would ever think and feel.
So I had no idea where thateven came from.
But fortunately, what came outof my mouth, because of grace of
space, is, I said honey, here'ssome more chips.
(20:36):
I'm going to go in the nextroom for a minute and I'll be
right back.
Enjoy your sandwich.
I went, I sat down, I said whatjust happened.
And so we, we don't know whatit is, we don't know, and it's
so important for us to practiceself-care and for those of us
who don't feel like we'reequipped to do that, we get an
accountability partner and yousay hold me accountable to
(20:59):
practicing self-care, make sureI am telling you what I'm doing
and make sure I'm doing it,because when we're only
accountable to ourselves, Idon't know about you.
Yeah, but you know it's prettyeasy for me to justify something
, especially if it was reallygood chocolate, but for me for a
lot of times it was self-care,and we can't do that Because
nobody else can practiceself-care for us.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, oh, my God.
Honestly, like one of thethings you said, the things you
begin to shave off are thethings that you probably need
the most right Sleep exercise.
I know some wonderfulcaregivers who are so focused on
(21:51):
making sure that who they'recaring for gets well fed and
well nourished.
And then you say, what did youeat?
And you know, while it might'vebeen healthy, was it as much as
you should?
Because there's that element ofanxiety that maybe takes away
the appetite.
Right?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, there are a couple sides of that.
One, you're fixing the meal forthem, so you're fixing
something that they're going toeat, not as much as what you'd
want to eat.
What are they going to eat?
Well, then you're gettingeverything ready for them.
Yes, and for part of thejourney, you're going to be
feeding them.
Yes, so you're preparing thefood, maybe you them.
Yes, so you're preparing thefood, maybe you're sampling it.
While they're doing, then you'resitting and supporting them
(22:28):
being able to eat, and thenyou're cleaning up and you're
also caring for them, becauseyou've got to have the what
happens after dinner, beforethey go to bed.
So you've got the dishes to do,you've got those things to do.
So for me, a lot of times, mymeal was as I'm scraping the pan
, eating a little something, oras I'm fixing it.
So it's not that you're sittingdown there having that relaxing
(22:50):
meal with a conversation.
So that's a really, really goodpoint.
You know, it's all of thosethings and then things you know,
like you know trimming your ownnails.
You know you're trimming yourloved one's nails.
You're not doing all of theseother kinds of things and it,
but it's also doing things thatare healthy for you mentally
(23:10):
reading a book or just havingsome quiet time, or with
professional development?
I'm shaving off professionaldevelopment things because I
don't have time to studysomething.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know what comes to mind as you speak to, and I
don't know if this falls in thecareer category or the health
category, maybe blend of the two.
But I know that it also can beeasy, because you have this one
lane that's pulling so much, tobe a bit um, uh, uh cautious
(23:51):
about what else you add to theplate that could be helping you
for your own personaladvancement.
Right, and I think thatprobably falls in the career
lane for some, the health lanefor others.
But what do you think aboutthat?
Because it really is.
You said something earlier thatit's a scenario where it's not
(24:13):
time bound, like the nine month,you know, pregnancy and maybe
three month maternity leave.
Right, it's not time bound.
It could be, you know, a coupleof years, it could be 12 years.
Right, it could be all thingsin between, certainly not at the
same density level, which isthe grace of the whole thing.
(24:33):
But I wonder what your thoughtsare for someone that's
listening, who is absolutely,you know, thinking through how
they're navigating and their ownhealthy factors, and they're
saying but Sue, how do Inavigate the things that I'm
drawn to and want to do, but Istill have this extra thing,
(24:59):
right?
Do you pause on your life or doyou live your life in tandem
and come up with support andsolutions to allow that?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It's a both and Chantra it's a both, and Every
diagnosis is different and theseasons of the diagnosis are
going to be different for everyperson, and I'm going to answer
part of the question in a moment.
The thing I want to make sure Ireally kick it off with is, as
you would do, as I would do, ifyou saw someone and you felt
they needed support.
You would say hey, can I helpyou?
(25:30):
Is there anything I could do to?
If you saw someone and you feltthey needed support, you would
say, hey, can I help you?
Is there anything I could do tohelp you?
When you know someone isnavigating, okay, well, there's
a season in our lives wherewe're offering that.
There is also a season in ourlives where we could be the
recipient of that.
So the first place that I'mgoing to start with your answer
(25:52):
is, if somebody offers help, sayyes, thank you.
Now, what I did is I made alist of things that if somebody
had five minutes, what couldthey do?
If somebody had 10 minutes,what could they do If they had a
half an hour, if they had anhour, if they had half a day.
So I had different kinds ofthings that people offered to
help and I kind of knew peoplearound me who might be offering
(26:14):
to help, so I've had specificthings.
So if they said, may I help you, I could say yes.
So when people offer help, bein this season of receiving and
don't go oh I feel so guilty,don't.
Or oh I feel so bad, I don'twant to burden anybody else.
They wouldn't offer.
If it was a burden, they wouldthey ought.
So the first answer to yourquestion is when somebody offers
(26:37):
, the second one is it's goingto help.
It's going to impact differentareas of your life in different
amounts during the caregivingjourney, depending on what
season of the caregiving journeyyou are in, and so there will
be times.
I intentionally chose to putsomething I'm passionate about
up on the shelf during mycaregiving season, and that's
(27:00):
travel.
I'm a very passionate travelerand what I realized is the world
was still going to be aroundwhen I didn't have my caregiving
journey anymore.
So I chose to put so there's noemotion around it.
It's like okay, I didn't resentit, I didn't wish I could.
It was like no, and I heardstories from other people and
it's like great, and we used toshare caregiving or our trip
(27:23):
information with each other.
We'd look at TV shows or thingslike that to show that.
So there's that part of it thatyou intentionally put pieces of
that.
You also evaluate where you canhave support from other people.
So is there a professional whocould come in so that you have
capacity to if you're still abusiness professional that and
(27:43):
you've got to work that you havecapacity to be doing that.
So you evaluate whether it's inyour personal life that you
want to make sure you aregetting to the gym and that
means you bring someone in foran hour or for half a day so you
can get certain things done andyou evaluate what those pieces
are.
And the other thing is youdon't evaluate them in a vacuum.
There are support groups thatare local support groups.
(28:06):
There are people who've been onthe journey.
A lot of people want to help,and so you don't have to
navigate it around all.
You don't have to navigate italone and you don't have to have
all the answers there.
Help us all around.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I love it.
No, that's right on, so.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe resource group that you are
now co-founding in in theinfluencer caregiving space, in
the influencer caregiving space.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yes, what my co-founder, nancy Treister, and
I did is.
We founded the Caregiver'sJourney, and I had originally
started the Caregiver's Journeybecause I really felt strongly
about helping people navigatetheir entire journey, from when
they saw it on the horizon orwhen it first began, all the way
through moving forward afterour care receiver has passed
(28:57):
away.
And I got started with that.
Nancy and I worked together manyyears ago.
She and her husband and I allworked together and we were
neighbors for a period of time.
He developed a type of dementiaas well, and she would call me
with caregiving questions.
She was struggling to findanswers online and she had her
(29:18):
husband at home and so it wasn'tas convenient to go physically
to a support group.
So she was trying to findthings online and I said, well,
I've always wanted to start apodcast, I have an award-winning
course for navigating thecaregiving journey, I do the
blogs and all, and so we decidedto partner together and to
create all of these programs forthe caregiver's journey to help
(29:42):
people navigate all the phasesof their caregiving journey, and
my one of my big passions ishelping businesses and family
caregivers thrive together.
What does it look like to help afamily caregiver continue to
work and make sure the businessis thriving too.
Well, this is not all about thebusiness and it's not all about
the caregiver.
How do we make that work?
(30:03):
And so we're doing that.
We're in the process of gettingready to write another book.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, so the podcast is something that we're enjoying
doing, and blogs and thingslike that.
What's?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
the name of the podcast and what's the blog.
You got to give us all thedeets.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
All right, the deets.
The podcast is called theCaregiver's Journey Practical
Tips and Candid Conversations,and I promise you because the
two of us are very direct peopleyes, we are very direct when we
talk about it.
She had questions aboutincontinence.
We are very direct when we talkabout it.
She had questions aboutincontinence, her husband's
incontinence.
She was having struggles withthings we could.
She couldn't find anythingonline.
(30:37):
We did a podcast episode on itand I was, I was the uh, I was
the model, but it's how do youchange and depend when you, when
you're, and so we talk aboutdifferent parts of the
experience.
We just finished one on travel.
You know, when do you know toquit, stop, to quit stop, to
(31:02):
quit traveling, quit, stop.
And part of what?
Because part of what we bothhad is we had the trip after the
last, what should have been thelast trip.
So that last trip that was sobrutal.
We both had that and we want toprevent people from having that
.
And so it's eating, it'swandering, it's taking the car
keys away.
It's practical tips and we justget right down in and very
direct about them.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
This is so needed.
This is so good.
I think that this is going tobe such a handy podcast and tool
and resource that you guys aredoing.
Thank you for doing it.
Thank you so, so much for thegenerous sharing that you've
done here with us today as well.
(31:41):
I can't imagine that there'snot a little applause that are
going on around the world fromlisteners who are grappling with
this and trying to figure itout.
But there are a couple ofthemes that seem to resonate.
One is that we have to rememberwho we are and how to stay
(32:04):
healthy and strong in thisjourney in time.
You also talk a little bitabout the opportunity to show up
and let people know what yoursituation is and be bold in
doing so, and also to receiveand ask for help.
Those are just a few of thenuggets, but there's so many
(32:26):
more.
Wow.
What else would you tell us,just kind of as a parting gift?
What would you say is importantfor us to keep top of mind?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I practice something I call massive acceptance and
radical presence.
Massive acceptance is youaccept exactly what is the way
that it is.
You don't have to like it, youdon't have to agree with it, you
don't have to understand it,you just accept it without
judgment of yourself or others,the way that it is, which allows
you to stay.
The other side of it is radicalpresence is you're able to stay
(32:59):
fully, absolutely present inthe moment.
One of the things that manycaregivers lose sight of is that
, yes, there are challenges inour experience, and yet, when we
accept it for exactly what itis and we stay fully present,
there are moments of absolutejoy and absolute beauty in there
.
And so, if we are staying fullypresent and we accept our
(33:21):
journey, we can make the wisestchoices in the most challenging
situations, and yet we can fillour hearts with joy in even the
tiniest moments.
And they're there.
And the other part of it iswe're all on this journey
together.
You do not need to journeyalone.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Oh girl, the connectedness.
So you are beautiful inside andout and I think this work is
going to be beautiful work and Ithank you so much for being
generous and sharing with ProvenNot Perfect community.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Thank you so much for all you do and for bringing
these messages to people.
I am so grateful for you in mylife.
I feel truly blessed.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Bye.
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