June 10, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when leaders drive without a license? When we race through leadership responsibilities at 180 miles per hour without first understanding ourselves, we miss critical details and create unnecessary risks—for ourselves and those we lead.
In this powerful exploration of mindful leadership, we unpack the fundamental difference between leading from performance versus purpose. For generations, we've been taught to focus on achievement, external validation, and technical expertise. We've become masters at interpersonal relationships while neglecting the crucial intrapersonal relationship with ourselves and our deeper purpose.
The conversation reveals a troubling reality: most organizational ecosystems are governed by wounded, unrealized individuals leading from places of unresolved trauma. Even successful executives struggle to answer simple questions like "Why are you here?" and "What do you want?" without resorting to rehearsed, performative answers. Professional trauma from microaggressions, discrimination, and demoralizing experiences becomes the playbook from which many determine their worth and ultimately lead others.
But there's a profound alternative. Mindful leadership begins with creating space for stillness—just five minutes daily to be quiet enough to hear yourself. This small practice initiates transformation that ripples outward, affecting every relationship and organization you touch. The most powerful question you can ask is simply: "What am I resisting?" This often reveals where your destiny clashes with your current paradigm.
The journey toward conscious leadership isn't about dismantling everything you've learned but rather integrating it while ensuring external validation doesn't drive your decisions. When we recognize our inherent value beyond our achievements, we create space for others to do the same—cultivating environments where excellence, authenticity, and grace coexist.
Take the first step today. Set a timer for five minutes of stillness. Your authentic self is waiting to be heard, and the world needs leaders who lead from within.
Drive, Ambition, Doing, Leading, Creating... all good until we forget about our own self-care. This Village of All-Stars pays it forward with transparency about misses and celebration in winning. We cover many topics and keep it 100. We are Proven Not Perfect™️
https://www.provennotperfect.com
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I'd love to hear what you think!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
D.
Hey lady.
Oh, you're looking so good andso ready and I'm ready for this
conversation.
We are going to jump right in.
Micro leadership.
When I thought about that as atopic true story I knew I wanted
to have a conversation with you.
(00:25):
I knew I wanted to sit in thisspace, I wanted to sit in this
arena and I wanted to teasethrough an idea with you.
I did not know what the ideawas, I wasn't clear on that.
I go flipping through LinkedInjust one day and up pops your no
little dissertation and I saidthis is it, this is the
(00:50):
assignment.
This is the assignment Becausewe live in this space right now
where everyone's talking aboutmindful mindful, this mindful
that eating, drinking.
I've yet to have anyone reallytake charge in unpacking this
notion of the intersection ofmindfulness and leadership.
(01:12):
And when I saw you dare to bedifferent and go there, I was
like this is it, this is why.
So what is mindful leadership?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So, interestingly enough, and first of all,
chandra, thank you for having me.
It is a pleasure to be here andI won't go off on my
soliloquies around why and howlong.
I've just admired your presenceand your leadership.
And so, literally since yousent me the title right, I know
(01:44):
we had been working for a whilelike kind of thinking, like how
do we catch up?
And so I love how God works,though, right, how he never lets
us get in the way of what hehas prepared.
And so mindful leadership is sopowerful to me because it's
something that I've had to livemy way into.
I personally was I don'tconsider myself a mindfulness
(02:06):
guru or expert.
In fact, when people ask youknow what do I do, I say I'm in
the people business.
And if you want more detail, Isay things like, hey, I'm a
certified behavioral specialist.
But when it comes to mindfulleadership, here's, here's our,
here's my personal definition ofmindful leadership that mindful
leadership is about showing upin presence and purpose and not
(02:29):
performance Wow.
It is about honestly startingat the space of self-leadership
into self-mastery, which goesagainst everything that we have
(02:50):
been and are taught and areencouraged to do in the
organizational space.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And I and it comes even from going from high, from
college like this beinggraduation season, when you
graduate with the degree in thething you're told go launch and
be great and prove to the worldthat you are the best at the
thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And what you're saying to our young graduates
that are listening to us is yes,yes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And yes, and yes, and yes, and so for me, I feel it's
a way that I get to bringhumans back home to themselves,
not abandoning what they've beentaught, but integrating it, but
not allowing it to be in thedriver's seat of their life.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Tell me more Letting their core.
Yeah, tell me more about thatbecause this is good.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So you hit a really good point around how we've been
taught that way since school.
Truth be told, we've beentaught that even before then,
right?
So I grew up being raised by asingle Black mother and her
parents, and I've lived with herparents my entire life right
her parents were, in theirsecond stage of life, pastors,
(04:10):
pentecostal pastors at that, ofa very large church in Brooklyn,
new York.
Shout out to Brooklyn all right, all right.
That's where Zoe oh, should Isay that didn't say it so, and
so I've been taught to focus onthe act of presentation and
(04:31):
performance, but it was allwithin good intention, right.
And so, while I was beingraised, I was taught about
myself, but I was also taughthow I'm supposed to show up.
I was also taught pick what youto show up.
I was also taught pick what youwant to focus in, make a career
out of it.
Right, with all good intentions.
I believe that the leaders inour lives, both familiar,
(04:56):
community-wise, and in ourcareer, our professional leaders
and mentorship, I think withthe best of intentions,
oftentimes taught us how to befor others but not be within
ourselves.
And so, along the way, webecome experts at interpersonal
(05:18):
relationships, but not alwaysintrapersonal relationships.
So relationship with self, but,most importantly, I think, the
transpersonal relationships.
So, relationship with self, but, most importantly, I think, the
transpersonal relationship,which is, which is theory of the
relationship you have withyourself and something bigger
than you, so whether it's thedivine.
But, more importantly, where Itend to teach this and train
(05:40):
this and advise this is therelationship with your purpose.
Yes, train this and advise thisis the relationship with your
purpose, yes, with the core ofyourself.
And so, to bring it full circle.
When I say mindful leadershipis really around, hey, showing
up.
But within yourself it issaying listen, yes, I'm supposed
to be dynamic, yes, I'msupposed to walk in confidence,
(06:01):
yes, I'm supposed to be a masterin whatever field I have I'm
applying my attention to.
But what intention, what spaceis that coming from?
What fountain is that comingfrom?
And then I think that that'swhere the divide is and that by
the time we start graduatingfrom high school and college and
and for me it happened, youknow, probably before then
(06:25):
school and college, and and forme it happened, you know,
probably before then, but deeplyin my corporate career it
became that that's when we startclimbing someone else's ladder.
For us, yes.
And then, when it comes totrying to deal with the
obstacles that come just as amatter of life, we wonder why it
hits so hard.
We wonder why we can't reallywe can't find where to pull from
(06:47):
.
We wonder why, you know, weneed so many deep spaces of
therapy.
It is literally because we needto have this journey of, first
and foremost, not dismantlingeverything we've been taught,
but, first and foremost, givingsome space to the core of who we
are, to the purpose of who weare.
(07:08):
You'd be shocked at how manypeople Chandra, in the C suite,
when they hire me or my team andthey bring us in to solve
whatever big issue, that they'relooking for me to kind of go to
the textbook for whatever X, y,z.
You'd be shocked that when Iasked this very, very question,
(07:30):
how many of them are stumbled.
In fact I have yet one thathasn't been, and we're talking
CEO level, not just, you know,vp level.
And I say, why are you here andwhat do you want?
Yes, why are you here?
What do you want?
Yes, oh, why are you here?
What do you want?
And essentially what I'm askingis what's your purpose?
But typically that's just tooesoteric for them and oftentimes
(07:54):
when I ask what their purposeis, they have a rehearsed answer
yes, so that's the world withgoodness, but yes but let me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Let me ask you this, because that's good.
I think that what you're sayingat the root is are we
cultivating leaders that reallyknow how to sit in themselves
and sit still, to almost soak upwho you've become, yes, and to
(08:26):
get clarity around the directionthat you're heading.
I think too few leaders,self-included at times, take the
space to do that.
Because it's coming faster,it's getting louder, we're doing
, doing, doing, and without thatcompass, to your point, what
(08:49):
are you springing forth, whatare you springing from and why
is someone going to want tofollow that aroma?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Think about this how often in our lives have we been
taught the mastery, the focus,the priority, the urgency, the
criticality of having arelationship and working on the
relationship with our self?
(09:19):
Not often For self's sake.
Often for self sake, typically,when it's encouraged, it's only
so that we can, uh, correctsomething, right?
You know, you need to sit withyourself and think about your
counsel, you need to sit withyourself and think about your
plan, but it's always for thepurpose of something else.
And then we connect the bridgeof like where we're seeing.
(09:42):
You know, some people say, okay, this sounds great, this is
wonderful, but but what's therisk?
You know some people say, okay,this sounds great, this is
wonderful, but but what's therisk?
You know, what is it thatyou're solving?
What are you helping peoplesolve?
We are in a space, right, whereI believe the statistics
recently have been thatsomething like 70% of Americans
(10:04):
are not happy working.
Yeah, that the corporateculture, right, organization,
because it's not just corporate.
Here's the challenge theorganizational space has become
a space focused on technicalexpertise and not human
experience.
Yes, post COVID, we have becomea, a humanity of individuals
(10:32):
that are now sensitized.
We woke up, if you will, and soeverything we feel and
everything we do is increased,and our humanity matters where
things hit deeper, because whenwe go through as a universe,
(10:54):
what we experience through COVIDnot just the individual
families losing what they lost,but just that trauma as a whole.
Our priorities shifted, whetherwe all want to acknowledge it
or not.
We could not do things as weused to and so, as a result part
(11:15):
of the reason there's thisfocus on toxic workplace
nothing's really changed in theworkplace.
Nothing at all Except ourawareness, our sensitivity, and
so what we're seeing is theresult of decades of teaching
people how to lead things,versus leading people, starting
(11:40):
with themselves.
Yes, because how can I to yourpoint when you're like, hey, it
comes fast, you know, I findmyself in a grind?
I do too, and I work for myselfnow, but I do too.
How can we inherently andinstinctively stop to think
about how our actions are goingto impact others when we don't
(12:03):
really have that inherentdiscipline to think about how
it's going to impact us?
Right, it's beautiful, right,so beautiful, yes.
And so what I'm trying to do,one human, one organization, one
(12:24):
leader at a time, isreintroduce that relationship
priority.
Right Without judgment or shame, right Without.
Because once people sit in thegravity, there's always this
moment, whether it's in theadvisory or I'm in kind of a
C-suite intensive there's alwaysthis moment when it hits them
(12:48):
Like, oh my God.
Some say I feel like I've been,you know, sleep for the last.
How many lives have I, you knowhow many people have I sent,
soul broken home?
And it's in that moment that Ihave to say no, no, no.
This isn't for judgment orshame, no shame.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
The awakening happens when it's supposed to.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The awakening happens when it's supposed to.
So when that happens at the topof the house and what we forget
is at the top of the house, inany organization, in home, isn't
necessary the leadership, it'sthe person that's right.
When it happens at the top ofthe house, in intrapersonally,
(13:35):
then it happens interpersonally,then there's soul alignment
within the group that's runningany space, whether it's a home
or an organization, then itfunnels down.
Then the reparation of thefoundation, the cracks in the
foundation, can be fixed.
Then there's a clearer look atthe infrastructure of how
(13:59):
principles and values are eitherbeing honored or absent, takes
place.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
You're getting deeper .
You're getting deeper.
Yes, here's what I want to say.
What's come to mind as Ilistened to you speak?
Um, in the mid-2000s, we allwrapped around Simon Sinek's
it's Not Good why, and it wasamazing and it was brilliant,
(14:24):
and I myself and many otherleaders have used that in the
room.
The thing that I think reallyhits me is that Simon was
addressing the institutionalcomponents.
What you're driving us andpushing us to think about bigger
(14:48):
as leaders responsible forpeople, is the humanness of the
whole thing.
That same starts with why is ahuman problem, but if we unpack
it for ourselves, then we'realmost driving without a license
to drive other people.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
What happens when you're driving a without a
license, or and or, going 180miles per hour, even if you're
good at it?
Right, how many things do youmiss?
What are all of the risks?
Right, if anybody's driving 180miles per hour, and that really
is the challenge, right, we'reall driving 180 miles per hour
(15:34):
without the licensure, withoutthe licensure, but you're
hitting it dead on the nose.
And?
But here's what I found is thatoftentimes it's not because
people choose this approach,it's not even completely that
they haven't been taught to.
If that, underneath all thegood at the core of it, is that
(15:58):
there isn't a self-sense ofvalue, that they deserve it.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Girl.
Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Most of our confident leaders are walking around
still trying to prove somethingto someone else, and that's
where the performance comes in.
That's when it becomes morefocused on what things look like
than how things feel.
(16:29):
That's when what you decide tomake your studies in and get
your degree in, or whatpromotions you pursue, become
more about a master planconnected to some subconscious
seed soul through God knows when, versus even entertaining the
(16:52):
idea that you are valuableenough, you are good enough that
what you really want and whoyou really are is always more
than enough, and it will giveyou the life of your dreams and
it is even profitable.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Honestly, mic drop, really mic drop, because what
you have just packed there, Imean I just really hope people
are.
This is going to be one peopleare going to listen to twice.
You're going to have to inorder to catch it all, because
there is so much depth in everysingle sentence and statement.
Believe that it has the powerto unleash the thing, because I
(17:40):
believe that some of the mostpopular platforms and apps have
become successful and built uponthis notion of the more M, the
Bs, the as, the J, the Ds, the M, the S, the A's I can keep
going.
The more you add, the moreinfluential you are.
(18:02):
And when I think about thesespaces, I can say kind of around
2020, when things started toslow down and stop and you
really just tapped into how youfeel about so many things.
There's goodness in thesespaces.
Do not get me wrong.
However, I began to see thatwho I was showing up as was
(18:23):
always waving my own flag ofanother letter or alphabet or
another accomplishment, and itdidn't sit well with me because
in my quiet moments, in my quietspace, I know that, no matter
what it is externally, I'mneeding and requiring the work
(18:45):
to be done internally.
And when I don't do itinternally, it is a mess
externally, right?
So I love you saying that,because I really want people to.
I really want us all, whetherwe are coming up in our career,
whether we have the privilege ofimpacting lives and people.
(19:09):
I want us to appreciate thatyou cannot be as impactful as
you will be or intended to be ifyou don't take care of the own
gook in your own trunk.
And that's what I hear from you.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Quintessential definition of self-leadership,
which leads to self-mastery,which leads to mindful
leadership, leadership and whenpeople like you lean into that,
as it's clear that you have,then what they find themselves,
(19:46):
what I call, is that thepinnacle of mindful leadership,
which becomes consciousleadership.
That's when you start, when youmove from just leading things
to cultivating ecosystems ofchange and impact, and that is
exactly what A this platform isdoing right and so, as you have
kind of taken that banner ofokay, you know what I'm
(20:09):
listening to?
Self Number one it started withyou giving yourself space to
hear yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oftentimes, people will ask you it's scary girl,
it's scary to hear yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Oftentimes people will ask it's scary and what
people don't always understand.
For those who are aware, right,those who kind of have awakened
what they may be experiencing,I might speak specifically to
those people right now.
They've had the awakening,They've started leaning into
self, they've applied that,they're trying to figure out why
in this phase it's feeling likeit isn't enough.
(20:45):
It's not that it isn't enough,it's that you're at the next
level of it.
It's that you're at the nextseason and simply, just like our
school system, the topics don'tchange.
Nothing changes just theexpectation of performance and
(21:07):
understanding and applicationadvances based on the
information you've been given.
And that's how it is and thatis exactly how our journey in
life is.
That is the journey of self andoftentimes we assume it's linear
and oftentimes a lot of thisself-development piece that
(21:28):
we're taught culturally and inthe movement is that it is
linear, that there is somepinnacle, that there's some
Mecca right, and instead ofunderstanding that there is no
mountaintop here, there is nomountaintop, you get to one
mountaintop and then you end upat the next valley for the next
(21:49):
level.
But it all starts with and Iwant folks to really hone in on
what you said in your quiet timeyou had the courage to number
one sit with yourself, becausethat is the biggest hurdle is
how many.
That's why you find it'sinteresting to me how oftentimes
(22:10):
, when we read these articlesand they talk about the most
successful people, um, you knowin the world and you always
notice number one, that it'salways but whatever right
there's a whole nother podcastwe're gonna do that too, right,
these billionaires.
And and then they run down howthey start their day, at four
and five am and etc.
What I always notice is thatthey're always doing something,
(22:45):
that it's still preaching thismessage of doing versus being,
and it teaches us thismisaligned message that the two
cannot coexist.
Yes, yes, right, where there'sus who recognize that it's not
easy, but they can coexist.
And, by the way, when they docoexist, that is actually when
(23:07):
you stop aging 10 years at atime, right, that's actually
when the stress is, thatintentional stress that you have
to navigate, not the stressthat's sending you in panic mode
, that has you constantly sick,that has you constantly needing
to only show up in therapy inwhat they would call severe, you
(23:28):
know, crisis.
It is, it's not easy, but it ishome, yeah Right, home, yeah
Right, it's home.
But this fear of rejection inperformative presence in our
lives that we've all beenindoctrinated with, mostly from
birth, is is still there, andhere's what I'm here to tell
(23:50):
people.
It will never disappear.
The goal isn't that it goesaway and that you, you know,
it's this boogie monster thatyou shoo away.
The goal is that you take itout of the driver's seat.
So there's this.
Listen, I'm not a PhD and I'mnot an expert in this system,
but there's something calledfamily systems.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
David wasn't really a warrior, but he had a rock a
warrior, but he had a rock.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
See, there is a study called family um systems, and
what it really talks about isthis art in the study of
accepting all of us butunderstanding that it's parts of
us.
So the parts of us that we'reoften taught um are our.
You know, achilles heel, thatare the critical bad parts that
are in the way of our progress,right, the bad habits, et cetera
.
We're often taught to get ridof those.
Those are the bad things.
(24:45):
What the integrated familysystem theory teaches you is why
are you trying to get rid ofsomething that is already a part
of you and instead of it, whydon't you take space and time to
understand what it is that it'sthere, name the thing and
reposition its role in your life, right?
(25:06):
So for me, I'll give an example.
So I have an interesting careerstory, et cetera.
I won't bore people with allthe details, but I ended up in
the banking industry, okay, andI ended up in the banking
industry and I ended up being abranch manager after leading
(25:30):
call centers for a number ofyears, and my goal when I got
there, I promise you literallywas like I am going to be a
regional leader, I'm going to bea VP.
Listen, okay, didn't havebanking experience 101.
Okay, couldn't tell you what anFDI or C was, but I wanted to
be the regional leader.
(25:50):
Okay, so, okay, so fast forward.
It does happen and there's abeautiful testimony to that.
But that's not the point of thestory.
I continue to move through that.
I eventually get on thecorporate side of banking.
What I will tell you is thatwho I became as a professional
(26:13):
was completely built on all ofthe judgments that were given to
me about how I was showing up.
Ok, it was the, you know, itwas the very tone deaf executive
, white female leader telling meI'm not really sure how you got
here, but you know these, theseslides don't look good enough.
(26:36):
Ok, we talk about Rondell'sbeing out of place by two
millimeters.
Right, it was the, uh, theperson who was supposed to be my
mentor, who told me after apanel that I got significant
praise on.
I'm sorry.
Did I hear you say acts insteadof ask?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
last night.
Wow right, I love that you'rebringing in the cultural nuances
, because these are real.
They're real stories thateveryone needs to know about.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
It is the it was can.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I add one.
Can I add one?
Yes, please.
This is me adding one to yourstory.
Your story, it is the colleaguecoming into my office and
giving me a compliment of myattire and then asking which
(27:30):
JCPenney do I get that from now?
The point is, there are allsorts of assumptions in there,
and there's nothing wrong withjc penny nothing, believe
there's nothing wrong with it.
My point is, though, when youstart a question by pigeonholing
(27:56):
the recipient of the questionto what the answer must live
within, bringing in biases thatare inappropriate, and that is
your point, right, you'rebringing biases that are
inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay, keep going, cause I had to add one and that
is listen, I'm glad you addedthat in because, yes, pile that
on, compound it 500 times, I'lladd one more and then I'll
bottle in like what I'm tryingto say here.
It is the experience that I hadand it still chokes me up and,
(28:31):
honey, I've been in therapy overthis one for a long time, so
it's not like I'm not working onit.
It is them telling me andassigning me and saying she's
the affluent market girl andassigning me to statewide
regions to lead for bankingsystems and networks that are
(28:53):
affluent, and typically inbanking, the people who lead the
branches in a neighborhood arenormally residents of that
neighborhood, so a lot ofaffluent leaders.
They want to be in the affluentleader market.
But also then sat me down infront of a firing squad of my
(29:15):
entire team and told me I'm toomuch, I'm too harsh.
I believe I was told I'm like abull in a china shop.
She doesn't belong here.
If only she were a little moreless, if only she were a little
more humble.
I should also add that at thatpoint in time and I'm not making
(29:40):
this just about race, that youget my point None of my direct
reports were of diversity otherthan gender and for me that
never was a big thing and infact I probably was a little
aloof to it because I was raisedto be so culturally hybrid and
(30:03):
right I was raised in the churchI was raised.
I was raised in the church, andnot only was I raised in the
church, right, I shared.
It was second career for mygrandparents, so our ministry
and family businesses were inBrooklyn, but our home was in
(30:25):
Long Island, and so I literallylived two worlds.
Yes, but here's no.
Go right ahead, right, right, ahundred percent.
Here's the thing, though.
So all of that happens to us,and because we're resilient, yes
, we take it, we learn.
It impacts us, however, weimpact us, but what it does is
(30:47):
it adds to the bucket in usthat's already been
subconsciously inside, saying uh, perfectionism, and we think
about family systems as littlebubbles in our lives.
It already adds into the notionof look like something other
than what you want toauthentically look like.
(31:08):
Show up how, how deirdre.
Then does that come back tomindful leadership?
Because for every person who'sexperienced anything like this
and their own versions of that,yes, that becomes the playbook
by which they determine theirdestiny, their actions, their
(31:31):
decisions, their value and theirworth, and so it becomes very
difficult if you are leadingothers, spaces and places,
including yourself, from a spaceof what other people told you
to be that, by the way, wasn'tcorrect and didn't come from
(31:56):
their healthy place, becausenormally they're saying it to
you, because they're triggeredby you in their own junk.
There's nothing human centric,there's nothing self-valuable
that is going to pour out ofthat.
And then what happens is youstart looking at other people,
(32:16):
places and things and saying,listen, nobody considered me,
they'll be all right, they haveto pay their dues.
Oh, their feelings are hurt.
You stop thinking about whatpeople need, what is distinction
, but, more importantly, youstop to pause and say does this
align with who I am and what Iwant?
Does this?
(32:37):
And so you're empty, becausethe only way we get filled and
fueled is by when we're aligned,and soul aligned, to anything
and all things in life.
So you're not getting pouredinto.
And so now you're searching, andthe only thing you can search
for is satisfaction, worthiness,and you're going about it by
(33:01):
every way.
You've been taught indirectly,which is what other people have
taught you to do.
So you lean on that thing thateverybody else is saying
relationship to everybody butyourself, yes, and we don't
realize we have a literallyorganizational system being
governed, directed, set by abunch of wounded, unrealized,
(33:31):
dreamed, hurt, devalued humanbeings who are leading from that
place.
And that's for homes, that'scorporate environments,
nonprofit environments, it ischurches yes, it is.
(33:51):
It is social organizations,it's sororities, it's
fraternities.
All of the above, no-transcript, to recognize their value, to
(34:17):
pause and even acknowledge noteven their worth, not even their
worth yet, but acknowledge whatthey really want.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Then the ripple effect for that, because I'm not
here for the whole journey.
Typically, I'm normally here.
Normally, when I engage with myclients, it is.
It is at that point wherethey're hitting ceilings and
wall and they can't figure out.
They're normally in crisis,whether it's organizational or
(34:51):
individual.
Normally, if a leader calls meto come and help his org,
everything he tells me issymptomatic.
He doesn't know, he or shedoesn't know it's symptomatic,
right.
So they'll say things like youknow, we can't seem to align on
our strategic direction, orthere are all of these, you know
team dynamic issues happeningin there and I need my team to
(35:14):
align.
So we're seeing the issuebetween you know, engagement,
service, et cetera.
When I hear that, I immediatelyknow symptom, symptom, symptom,
not root, root, root.
And so they never call mebecause they're not in trouble.
And when I come, the firstthing that I need to do is get
(35:35):
the team and or the individualfirst to even stop and
understand.
I said forget what the datasays, forget what your goals are
.
What do you want?
It normally takes us six hoursto get to what you really want
like not what you think you want.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
What do you really want?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And there's what do you want?
And you'd be shocked at howmany of these very successful
people are.
They become almost adolescentlike and even scared to say
should I say it out loud Likeright and if I?
(36:19):
That's always the seed.
And then normally that goesfrom us getting clear to what
they want, to understanding thatthey've been robbing themselves
of value, to understandingright, the inter intra intense
personal relationship dynamic,and helping them understand the
framework of consciousleadership and how it starts at
(36:40):
mindful leadership.
And they start a two-prongedjourney, an individual and a
team journey, and normally myjourney ends or shifts with them
.
When I finally see them numberone spiritually, I could feel it
shift in the air.
You feel the break.
You feel the break and it'snormally always related to some
(37:04):
professional trauma, somehistorical like.
It's always connected to that.
But normally trust is at thebottom of it.
And once I hear them be able tosay and they get to the point
of, okay, great, can you help usnow build and execute XYZ?
And I had to learn that that isnot what I'm called to do.
(37:24):
I actually spent the first fiveyears of my business doing that
work and couldn't figure outwhy I was so burned out,
well-paid and empty.
But that was me responding tothe Sonias in my life the Jones,
the Jane Doe's right.
It was me responding to themand still proving to them that.
(37:44):
I'm good enough that I can dothis, that I am valuable, so I
had to, once again, at everystage, live my way into it.
To say, every stage, live myway into it.
To say this isn't the part I'mcalled to.
I'm called to help you findbreakthrough, awareness and
(38:05):
alignment, and then I can helpyou find the support system for
the next steps.
Now what typically happens,though, because they don't want
to let go.
System for the next steps.
Now what typically happensthough, because they don't want
to let go, and I don't mind them.
Not wanting to let go is, then,they want that support, somehow
supported through each rung oftheir leadership and that's
typically how I never leaveChandra is that I'm starting to
(38:37):
see a hunger and a desire formore within this space.
I'm starting to see moreleaders find themselves in the
space you found yourself back in2020 to say there's something
off, yes.
(39:00):
Yourself back in 2020 to saythere's something off, yes.
And instead of me performing myway around it, instead of me
trying to achieve one more thing, yeah, I'd rather pause.
It's, it's it's the big,spiritual, philosophical,
personal awakening pause.
And and it went from it being mybusiness having to figure out
(39:21):
how to encourage leaders thatthey needed medicine that they
didn't think they needed, to nowhelping them understand what
they're experiencing in andreally kind of just being a
guide through right and afacilitator through this part of
(39:42):
the journey, but also, to yourpoint, introducing this concept
of mindful leadership, becausealso often people immediately
associate the word leadershipwith people management.
Yes, instead of realizing right, it starts here.
We start with how well we leadourselves, yes, and so to see
(40:16):
people who are on the front lineexperience that moment for the
first time and kind of havethese ahas Now.
That is the stuff that fills me, that's the stuff that makes me
say it's all worth it right,it's still hard, and that's when
you know you're in alignment.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Say that again, because that's when you know,
when it isn't hard, when it justcomes.
I think that's when you knowyou're in alignment.
So I want to be mindful of yourtime and your space and I do
believe there's more for us totalk about and unpack here.
And if you will, if you will so, oblige me, we'll make that
(40:50):
happen.
But my question is this assomebody is listening to this
and they're tugged on as aleader period, leader of
whatever dot dot dot, right, andyou've given a lot of dot dot
dots to fill in they say youknow what?
I'm not mindful.
You know what's the one thingthat I can do to just bring in a
(41:23):
practice that gives me thecourage to become more mindful?
What would you say?
That one thing is.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I'd say the number one thing is to create some type
of daily regimen that allowsyou to be still long enough to
hear yourself Come on.
And that doesn't have to beyoga, but it can be.
(41:49):
It doesn't have to bemeditation, but it can be right,
it can literally be.
And this is this is I'm gladyou asked this question, because
when I'm dealing with teamslike that, the first assignment
I give them is just five minutesto set their clock.
For five minutes a day they canpick if it's first thing in the
morning, lunchtime or end ofday, but they have to do it.
(42:11):
Five minutes where they set theclock to do anything they want
that allows them to just bestill.
For a lot of them it's walking.
Here's the thing when you takethe first step towards self.
The beauty about mindfulness itis a guide and it is not
(42:32):
something that you have tofigure out.
It is the one thing in life youdon't have to manage.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It's already waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
It's waiting for you.
So when you take the first step, you the you who has been
waiting to be heard inside willspeak up.
Yes, and I'll give one otherbonus, because oftentimes I get
asked where do I even start withprompt questions?
Yes, the most powerful questionyou can ask yourself at any
(43:02):
time is what am I resisting?
What am I resisting?
Because oftentimes thedifficulty that we're
experiencing, the discomfortwe're experiencing, is normally
our destiny, having a clash withour current state and our
(43:26):
current paradigm and our currentcycle, and it's normally the
resistance that's creating thefriction.
If you can just ask what am Iresisting?
And here's the deal, you don'teven have to have a journal.
You could literally ask thatquestion and go about your day.
It will come to you.
That's the most powerfulquestion we can ask at any stage
(43:50):
in our lives.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I love that.
All right, we're going toswitch to rapid fire, because I
want people to know you a littlebit more.
What's a dream project?
You haven't started yet.
Rapid fire what's a dreamproject?
Speaker 2 (44:22):
the next stage or next era of mindful leadership
and human centric leaders forfor literally the universe, but
mostly, mostly organizationalspaces.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Okay, are you a planner or a go with the flow
type?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I don't know, but I can be flexible, but I'm
definitely a planner.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
And then this last one, inbox zero.
Is that a dream or reality?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
The dream that I'm also aware of will never happen,
okay, but if we can at leastget to the appropriate folders,
I will feel like I'm in holiday,okay.
So, yes, I actually have alittle shame around if anyone
looks at my email, or my text ormy email.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It's too much, it's too much, it's too much.
And look, look, let me tell youthis once you get to that place
where you appreciatemindfulness, you are, you feel
better about saying all of thisis too much and it's gonna be
right there too much laterlisten, I'm queen of let me star
(45:36):
this and in my planning I willcalendar out time to look at
star emails.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
It's not going to happen.
It took me a really long timeright.
Because part of my system is Icall her Perfect Patty and
Perfect Patty right, she wantsto drive all the time, and so me
and perfect Patty have come up.
Right, she could sit three rowsback on the bus, right, but
(46:05):
perfect that I had to tell herlisten, we're not going to get
through all these emails.
And if somebody emails me andsays, hey, just pulling this
back up in front for you, that'sokay, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
It's okay, because most of the time it will
recircle.
All right, look, I need to tellyou you are just a blessing.
I think the work that you'redoing is worthy work.
Keep going.
Thank you for the flowers thatyou offered me.
I tell my kids all the time youdon't know who you're impacting
.
Show up, do everything like you, do anything and make
(46:43):
everything you do with the focuson excellence and impacting
another person in the way you'vebeen anointed and ordained to
do.
That is the sauce.
You're the best.
I just have so much love thatI'm sending your way.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Receive, and thank you for this platform.
Thank you for your voice.
I don't know if you are awareof how impactful it is for
someone like yourself, with allof your ABCDEFGs, right, with
your clear.
(47:20):
I met you years ago and onething that's always stood out to
me is this clear, inherentpresence of excellence.
Right, it doesn't appear assomething that you set as a
standard or a goal.
It just is who you are.
Right, it is what you ooze.
I don't know if you understandthe impact of someone like you
(47:44):
creating this platform, havingthese conversations to let
individuals at every levelunderstand that authenticity,
grace and excellence can all beintegrated and coexist Wow.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I receive it and I thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you, can't wait .
I don't know what God has instore, but I'm excited and I'm
already signed up.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
All right, let's go See you later.
See you soon, Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Talk to you soon.
D.
Hey lady.
Oh, you're looking so good andso ready and I'm ready for this
conversation.
We are going to jump right in.
Micro leadership.
When I thought about that as atopic true story I knew I wanted
to have a conversation with you.
(00:25):
I knew I wanted to sit in thisspace, I wanted to sit in this
arena and I wanted to teasethrough an idea with you.
I did not know what the ideawas, I wasn't clear on that.
I go flipping through LinkedInjust one day and up pops your no
little dissertation and I saidthis is it, this is the
(00:50):
assignment.
This is the assignment Becausewe live in this space right now
where everyone's talking aboutmindful mindful, this mindful
that eating, drinking.
I've yet to have anyone reallytake charge in unpacking this
notion of the intersection ofmindfulness and leadership.
(01:12):
And when I saw you dare to bedifferent and go there, I was
like this is it, this is why.
So what is mindful leadership?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So, interestingly enough, and first of all,
chandra, thank you for having me.
It is a pleasure to be here andI won't go off on my
soliloquies around why and howlong.
I've just admired your presenceand your leadership.
And so, literally since yousent me the title right, I know
(01:44):
we had been working for a whilelike kind of thinking, like how
do we catch up?
And so I love how God works,though, right, how he never lets
us get in the way of what hehas prepared.
And so mindful leadership is sopowerful to me because it's
something that I've had to livemy way into.
I personally was I don'tconsider myself a mindfulness
(02:06):
guru or expert.
In fact, when people ask youknow what do I do, I say I'm in
the people business.
And if you want more detail, Isay things like, hey, I'm a
certified behavioral specialist.
But when it comes to mindfulleadership, here's, here's our,
here's my personal definition ofmindful leadership that mindful
leadership is about showing upin presence and purpose and not
(02:29):
performance Wow.
It is about honestly startingat the space of self-leadership
into self-mastery, which goesagainst everything that we have
(02:50):
been and are taught and areencouraged to do in the
organizational space.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
And I and it comes even from going from high, from
college like this beinggraduation season, when you
graduate with the degree in thething you're told go launch and
be great and prove to the worldthat you are the best at the
thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And what you're saying to our young graduates
that are listening to us is yes,yes.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And yes, and yes, and yes, and so for me, I feel it's
a way that I get to bringhumans back home to themselves,
not abandoning what they've beentaught, but integrating it, but
not allowing it to be in thedriver's seat of their life.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Tell me more Letting their core.
Yeah, tell me more about thatbecause this is good.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So you hit a really good point around how we've been
taught that way since school.
Truth be told, we've beentaught that even before then,
right?
So I grew up being raised by asingle Black mother and her
parents, and I've lived with herparents my entire life right
her parents were, in theirsecond stage of life, pastors,
(04:10):
pentecostal pastors at that, ofa very large church in Brooklyn,
new York.
Shout out to Brooklyn all right, all right.
That's where Zoe oh, should Isay that didn't say it so, and
so I've been taught to focus onthe act of presentation and
(04:31):
performance, but it was allwithin good intention, right.
And so, while I was beingraised, I was taught about
myself, but I was also taughthow I'm supposed to show up.
I was also taught pick what youto show up.
I was also taught pick what youwant to focus in, make a career
out of it.
Right, with all good intentions.
I believe that the leaders inour lives, both familiar,
(04:56):
community-wise, and in ourcareer, our professional leaders
and mentorship, I think withthe best of intentions,
oftentimes taught us how to befor others but not be within
ourselves.
And so, along the way, webecome experts at interpersonal
(05:18):
relationships, but not alwaysintrapersonal relationships.
So relationship with self, but,most importantly, I think, the
transpersonal relationships.
So, relationship with self, but, most importantly, I think, the
transpersonal relationship,which is, which is theory of the
relationship you have withyourself and something bigger
than you, so whether it's thedivine.
But, more importantly, where Itend to teach this and train
(05:40):
this and advise this is therelationship with your purpose.
Yes, train this and advise thisis the relationship with your
purpose, yes, with the core ofyourself.
And so, to bring it full circle.
When I say mindful leadershipis really around, hey, showing
up.
But within yourself it issaying listen, yes, I'm supposed
to be dynamic, yes, I'msupposed to walk in confidence,
(06:01):
yes, I'm supposed to be a masterin whatever field I have I'm
applying my attention to.
But what intention, what spaceis that coming from?
What fountain is that comingfrom?
And then I think that that'swhere the divide is and that by
the time we start graduatingfrom high school and college and
and for me it happened, youknow, probably before then
(06:25):
school and college, and and forme it happened, you know,
probably before then, but deeplyin my corporate career it
became that that's when we startclimbing someone else's ladder.
For us, yes.
And then, when it comes totrying to deal with the
obstacles that come just as amatter of life, we wonder why it
hits so hard.
We wonder why we can't reallywe can't find where to pull from
(06:47):
.
We wonder why, you know, weneed so many deep spaces of
therapy.
It is literally because we needto have this journey of, first
and foremost, not dismantlingeverything we've been taught,
but, first and foremost, givingsome space to the core of who we
are, to the purpose of who weare.
(07:08):
You'd be shocked at how manypeople Chandra, in the C suite,
when they hire me or my team andthey bring us in to solve
whatever big issue, that they'relooking for me to kind of go to
the textbook for whatever X, y,z.
You'd be shocked that when Iasked this very, very question,
(07:30):
how many of them are stumbled.
In fact I have yet one thathasn't been, and we're talking
CEO level, not just, you know,vp level.
And I say, why are you here andwhat do you want?
Yes, why are you here?
What do you want?
Yes, oh, why are you here?
What do you want?
And essentially what I'm askingis what's your purpose?
But typically that's just tooesoteric for them and oftentimes
(07:54):
when I ask what their purposeis, they have a rehearsed answer
yes, so that's the world withgoodness, but yes but let me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Let me ask you this, because that's good.
I think that what you're sayingat the root is are we
cultivating leaders that reallyknow how to sit in themselves
and sit still, to almost soak upwho you've become, yes, and to
(08:26):
get clarity around the directionthat you're heading.
I think too few leaders,self-included at times, take the
space to do that.
Because it's coming faster,it's getting louder, we're doing
, doing, doing, and without thatcompass, to your point, what
(08:49):
are you springing forth, whatare you springing from and why
is someone going to want tofollow that aroma?
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Think about this how often in our lives have we been
taught the mastery, the focus,the priority, the urgency, the
criticality of having arelationship and working on the
relationship with our self?
(09:19):
Not often For self's sake.
Often for self sake, typically,when it's encouraged, it's only
so that we can, uh, correctsomething, right?
You know, you need to sit withyourself and think about your
counsel, you need to sit withyourself and think about your
plan, but it's always for thepurpose of something else.
And then we connect the bridgeof like where we're seeing.
(09:42):
You know, some people say, okay, this sounds great, this is
wonderful, but but what's therisk?
You know some people say, okay,this sounds great, this is
wonderful, but but what's therisk?
You know, what is it thatyou're solving?
What are you helping peoplesolve?
We are in a space, right, whereI believe the statistics
recently have been thatsomething like 70% of Americans
(10:04):
are not happy working.
Yeah, that the corporateculture, right, organization,
because it's not just corporate.
Here's the challenge theorganizational space has become
a space focused on technicalexpertise and not human
experience.
Yes, post COVID, we have becomea, a humanity of individuals
(10:32):
that are now sensitized.
We woke up, if you will, and soeverything we feel and
everything we do is increased,and our humanity matters where
things hit deeper, because whenwe go through as a universe,
(10:54):
what we experience through COVIDnot just the individual
families losing what they lost,but just that trauma as a whole.
Our priorities shifted, whetherwe all want to acknowledge it
or not.
We could not do things as weused to and so, as a result part
(11:15):
of the reason there's thisfocus on toxic workplace
nothing's really changed in theworkplace.
Nothing at all Except ourawareness, our sensitivity, and
so what we're seeing is theresult of decades of teaching
people how to lead things,versus leading people, starting
(11:40):
with themselves.
Yes, because how can I to yourpoint when you're like, hey, it
comes fast, you know, I findmyself in a grind?
I do too, and I work for myselfnow, but I do too.
How can we inherently andinstinctively stop to think
about how our actions are goingto impact others when we don't
(12:03):
really have that inherentdiscipline to think about how
it's going to impact us?
Right, it's beautiful, right,so beautiful, yes.
And so what I'm trying to do,one human, one organization, one
(12:24):
leader at a time, isreintroduce that relationship
priority.
Right Without judgment or shame, right Without.
Because once people sit in thegravity, there's always this
moment, whether it's in theadvisory or I'm in kind of a
C-suite intensive there's alwaysthis moment when it hits them
(12:48):
Like, oh my God.
Some say I feel like I've been,you know, sleep for the last.
How many lives have I, you knowhow many people have I sent,
soul broken home?
And it's in that moment that Ihave to say no, no, no.
This isn't for judgment orshame, no shame.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
The awakening happens when it's supposed to.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
The awakening happens when it's supposed to.
So when that happens at the topof the house and what we forget
is at the top of the house, inany organization, in home, isn't
necessary the leadership, it'sthe person that's right.
When it happens at the top ofthe house, in intrapersonally,
(13:35):
then it happens interpersonally,then there's soul alignment
within the group that's runningany space, whether it's a home
or an organization, then itfunnels down.
Then the reparation of thefoundation, the cracks in the
foundation, can be fixed.
Then there's a clearer look atthe infrastructure of how
(13:59):
principles and values are eitherbeing honored or absent, takes
place.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
You're getting deeper .
You're getting deeper.
Yes, here's what I want to say.
What's come to mind as Ilistened to you speak?
Um, in the mid-2000s, we allwrapped around Simon Sinek's
it's Not Good why, and it wasamazing and it was brilliant,
(14:24):
and I myself and many otherleaders have used that in the
room.
The thing that I think reallyhits me is that Simon was
addressing the institutionalcomponents.
What you're driving us andpushing us to think about bigger
(14:48):
as leaders responsible forpeople, is the humanness of the
whole thing.
That same starts with why is ahuman problem, but if we unpack
it for ourselves, then we'realmost driving without a license
to drive other people.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
What happens when you're driving a without a
license, or and or, going 180miles per hour, even if you're
good at it?
Right, how many things do youmiss?
What are all of the risks?
Right, if anybody's driving 180miles per hour, and that really
is the challenge, right, we'reall driving 180 miles per hour
(15:34):
without the licensure, withoutthe licensure, but you're
hitting it dead on the nose.
And?
But here's what I found is thatoftentimes it's not because
people choose this approach,it's not even completely that
they haven't been taught to.
If that, underneath all thegood at the core of it, is that
(15:58):
there isn't a self-sense ofvalue, that they deserve it.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Girl.
Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Most of our confident leaders are walking around
still trying to prove somethingto someone else, and that's
where the performance comes in.
That's when it becomes morefocused on what things look like
than how things feel.
(16:29):
That's when what you decide tomake your studies in and get
your degree in, or whatpromotions you pursue, become
more about a master planconnected to some subconscious
seed soul through God knows when, versus even entertaining the
(16:52):
idea that you are valuableenough, you are good enough that
what you really want and whoyou really are is always more
than enough, and it will giveyou the life of your dreams and
it is even profitable.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Honestly, mic drop, really mic drop, because what
you have just packed there, Imean I just really hope people
are.
This is going to be one peopleare going to listen to twice.
You're going to have to inorder to catch it all, because
there is so much depth in everysingle sentence and statement.
Believe that it has the powerto unleash the thing, because I
(17:40):
believe that some of the mostpopular platforms and apps have
become successful and built uponthis notion of the more M, the
Bs, the as, the J, the Ds, the M, the S, the A's I can keep
going.
The more you add, the moreinfluential you are.
(18:02):
And when I think about thesespaces, I can say kind of around
2020, when things started toslow down and stop and you
really just tapped into how youfeel about so many things.
There's goodness in thesespaces.
Do not get me wrong.
However, I began to see thatwho I was showing up as was
(18:23):
always waving my own flag ofanother letter or alphabet or
another accomplishment, and itdidn't sit well with me because
in my quiet moments, in my quietspace, I know that, no matter
what it is externally, I'mneeding and requiring the work
(18:45):
to be done internally.
And when I don't do itinternally, it is a mess
externally, right?
So I love you saying that,because I really want people to.
I really want us all, whetherwe are coming up in our career,
whether we have the privilege ofimpacting lives and people.
(19:09):
I want us to appreciate thatyou cannot be as impactful as
you will be or intended to be ifyou don't take care of the own
gook in your own trunk.
And that's what I hear from you.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Quintessential definition of self-leadership,
which leads to self-mastery,which leads to mindful
leadership, leadership and whenpeople like you lean into that,
as it's clear that you have,then what they find themselves,
(19:46):
what I call, is that thepinnacle of mindful leadership,
which becomes consciousleadership.
That's when you start, when youmove from just leading things
to cultivating ecosystems ofchange and impact, and that is
exactly what A this platform isdoing right and so, as you have
kind of taken that banner ofokay, you know what I'm
(20:09):
listening to?
Self Number one it started withyou giving yourself space to
hear yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oftentimes, people will ask you it's scary girl,
it's scary to hear yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Oftentimes people will ask it's scary and what
people don't always understand.
For those who are aware, right,those who kind of have awakened
what they may be experiencing,I might speak specifically to
those people right now.
They've had the awakening,They've started leaning into
self, they've applied that,they're trying to figure out why
in this phase it's feeling likeit isn't enough.
(20:45):
It's not that it isn't enough,it's that you're at the next
level of it.
It's that you're at the nextseason and simply, just like our
school system, the topics don'tchange.
Nothing changes just theexpectation of performance and
(21:07):
understanding and applicationadvances based on the
information you've been given.
And that's how it is and thatis exactly how our journey in
life is.
That is the journey of self andoftentimes we assume it's linear
and oftentimes a lot of thisself-development piece that
(21:28):
we're taught culturally and inthe movement is that it is
linear, that there is somepinnacle, that there's some
Mecca right, and instead ofunderstanding that there is no
mountaintop here, there is nomountaintop, you get to one
mountaintop and then you end upat the next valley for the next
(21:49):
level.
But it all starts with and Iwant folks to really hone in on
what you said in your quiet timeyou had the courage to number
one sit with yourself, becausethat is the biggest hurdle is
how many.
That's why you find it'sinteresting to me how oftentimes
(22:10):
, when we read these articlesand they talk about the most
successful people, um, you knowin the world and you always
notice number one, that it'salways but whatever right
there's a whole nother podcastwe're gonna do that too, right,
these billionaires.
And and then they run down howthey start their day, at four
and five am and etc.
What I always notice is thatthey're always doing something,
(22:45):
that it's still preaching thismessage of doing versus being,
and it teaches us thismisaligned message that the two
cannot coexist.
Yes, yes, right, where there'sus who recognize that it's not
easy, but they can coexist.
And, by the way, when they docoexist, that is actually when
(23:07):
you stop aging 10 years at atime, right, that's actually
when the stress is, thatintentional stress that you have
to navigate, not the stressthat's sending you in panic mode
, that has you constantly sick,that has you constantly needing
to only show up in therapy inwhat they would call severe, you
(23:28):
know, crisis.
It is, it's not easy, but it ishome, yeah Right, home, yeah
Right, it's home.
But this fear of rejection inperformative presence in our
lives that we've all beenindoctrinated with, mostly from
birth, is is still there, andhere's what I'm here to tell
(23:50):
people.
It will never disappear.
The goal isn't that it goesaway and that you, you know,
it's this boogie monster thatyou shoo away.
The goal is that you take itout of the driver's seat.
So there's this.
Listen, I'm not a PhD and I'mnot an expert in this system,
but there's something calledfamily systems.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
David wasn't really a warrior, but he had a rock a
warrior, but he had a rock.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
See, there is a study called family um systems, and
what it really talks about isthis art in the study of
accepting all of us butunderstanding that it's parts of
us.
So the parts of us that we'reoften taught um are our.
You know, achilles heel, thatare the critical bad parts that
are in the way of our progress,right, the bad habits, et cetera
.
We're often taught to get ridof those.
Those are the bad things.
(24:45):
What the integrated familysystem theory teaches you is why
are you trying to get rid ofsomething that is already a part
of you and instead of it, whydon't you take space and time to
understand what it is that it'sthere, name the thing and
reposition its role in your life, right?
(25:06):
So for me, I'll give an example.
So I have an interesting careerstory, et cetera.
I won't bore people with allthe details, but I ended up in
the banking industry, okay, andI ended up in the banking
industry and I ended up being abranch manager after leading
(25:30):
call centers for a number ofyears, and my goal when I got
there, I promise you literallywas like I am going to be a
regional leader, I'm going to bea VP.
Listen, okay, didn't havebanking experience 101.
Okay, couldn't tell you what anFDI or C was, but I wanted to
be the regional leader.
(25:50):
Okay, so, okay, so fast forward.
It does happen and there's abeautiful testimony to that.
But that's not the point of thestory.
I continue to move through that.
I eventually get on thecorporate side of banking.
What I will tell you is thatwho I became as a professional
(26:13):
was completely built on all ofthe judgments that were given to
me about how I was showing up.
Ok, it was the, you know, itwas the very tone deaf executive
, white female leader telling meI'm not really sure how you got
here, but you know these, theseslides don't look good enough.
(26:36):
Ok, we talk about Rondell'sbeing out of place by two
millimeters.
Right, it was the, uh, theperson who was supposed to be my
mentor, who told me after apanel that I got significant
praise on.
I'm sorry.
Did I hear you say acts insteadof ask?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
last night.
Wow right, I love that you'rebringing in the cultural nuances
, because these are real.
They're real stories thateveryone needs to know about.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
It is the it was can.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I add one.
Can I add one?
Yes, please.
This is me adding one to yourstory.
Your story, it is the colleaguecoming into my office and
giving me a compliment of myattire and then asking which
(27:30):
JCPenney do I get that from now?
The point is, there are allsorts of assumptions in there,
and there's nothing wrong withjc penny nothing, believe
there's nothing wrong with it.
My point is, though, when youstart a question by pigeonholing
(27:56):
the recipient of the questionto what the answer must live
within, bringing in biases thatare inappropriate, and that is
your point, right, you'rebringing biases that are
inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay, keep going, cause I had to add one and that
is listen, I'm glad you addedthat in because, yes, pile that
on, compound it 500 times, I'lladd one more and then I'll
bottle in like what I'm tryingto say here.
It is the experience that I hadand it still chokes me up and,
(28:31):
honey, I've been in therapy overthis one for a long time, so
it's not like I'm not working onit.
It is them telling me andassigning me and saying she's
the affluent market girl andassigning me to statewide
regions to lead for bankingsystems and networks that are
(28:53):
affluent, and typically inbanking, the people who lead the
branches in a neighborhood arenormally residents of that
neighborhood, so a lot ofaffluent leaders.
They want to be in the affluentleader market.
But also then sat me down infront of a firing squad of my
(29:15):
entire team and told me I'm toomuch, I'm too harsh.
I believe I was told I'm like abull in a china shop.
She doesn't belong here.
If only she were a little moreless, if only she were a little
more humble.
I should also add that at thatpoint in time and I'm not making
(29:40):
this just about race, that youget my point None of my direct
reports were of diversity otherthan gender and for me that
never was a big thing and infact I probably was a little
aloof to it because I was raisedto be so culturally hybrid and
(30:03):
right I was raised in the churchI was raised.
I was raised in the church, andnot only was I raised in the
church, right, I shared.
It was second career for mygrandparents, so our ministry
and family businesses were inBrooklyn, but our home was in
(30:25):
Long Island, and so I literallylived two worlds.
Yes, but here's no.
Go right ahead, right, right, ahundred percent.
Here's the thing, though.
So all of that happens to us,and because we're resilient, yes
, we take it, we learn.
It impacts us, however, weimpact us, but what it does is
(30:47):
it adds to the bucket in usthat's already been
subconsciously inside, saying uh, perfectionism, and we think
about family systems as littlebubbles in our lives.
It already adds into the notionof look like something other
than what you want toauthentically look like.
(31:08):
Show up how, how deirdre.
Then does that come back tomindful leadership?
Because for every person who'sexperienced anything like this
and their own versions of that,yes, that becomes the playbook
by which they determine theirdestiny, their actions, their
(31:31):
decisions, their value and theirworth, and so it becomes very
difficult if you are leadingothers, spaces and places,
including yourself, from a spaceof what other people told you
to be that, by the way, wasn'tcorrect and didn't come from
(31:56):
their healthy place, becausenormally they're saying it to
you, because they're triggeredby you in their own junk.
There's nothing human centric,there's nothing self-valuable
that is going to pour out ofthat.
And then what happens is youstart looking at other people,
(32:16):
places and things and saying,listen, nobody considered me,
they'll be all right, they haveto pay their dues.
Oh, their feelings are hurt.
You stop thinking about whatpeople need, what is distinction
, but, more importantly, youstop to pause and say does this
align with who I am and what Iwant?
Does this?
(32:37):
And so you're empty, becausethe only way we get filled and
fueled is by when we're aligned,and soul aligned, to anything
and all things in life.
So you're not getting pouredinto.
And so now you're searching, andthe only thing you can search
for is satisfaction, worthiness,and you're going about it by
(33:01):
every way.
You've been taught indirectly,which is what other people have
taught you to do.
So you lean on that thing thateverybody else is saying
relationship to everybody butyourself, yes, and we don't
realize we have a literallyorganizational system being
governed, directed, set by abunch of wounded, unrealized,
(33:31):
dreamed, hurt, devalued humanbeings who are leading from that
place.
And that's for homes, that'scorporate environments,
nonprofit environments, it ischurches yes, it is.
(33:51):
It is social organizations,it's sororities, it's
fraternities.
All of the above, no-transcript, to recognize their value, to
(34:17):
pause and even acknowledge noteven their worth, not even their
worth yet, but acknowledge whatthey really want.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Then the ripple effect for that, because I'm not
here for the whole journey.
Typically, I'm normally here.
Normally, when I engage with myclients, it is.
It is at that point wherethey're hitting ceilings and
wall and they can't figure out.
They're normally in crisis,whether it's organizational or
(34:51):
individual.
Normally, if a leader calls meto come and help his org,
everything he tells me issymptomatic.
He doesn't know, he or shedoesn't know it's symptomatic,
right.
So they'll say things like youknow, we can't seem to align on
our strategic direction, orthere are all of these, you know
team dynamic issues happeningin there and I need my team to
(35:14):
align.
So we're seeing the issuebetween you know, engagement,
service, et cetera.
When I hear that, I immediatelyknow symptom, symptom, symptom,
not root, root, root.
And so they never call mebecause they're not in trouble.
And when I come, the firstthing that I need to do is get
(35:35):
the team and or the individualfirst to even stop and
understand.
I said forget what the datasays, forget what your goals are
.
What do you want?
It normally takes us six hoursto get to what you really want
like not what you think you want.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
What do you really want?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And there's what do you want?
And you'd be shocked at howmany of these very successful
people are.
They become almost adolescentlike and even scared to say
should I say it out loud Likeright and if I?
(36:19):
That's always the seed.
And then normally that goesfrom us getting clear to what
they want, to understanding thatthey've been robbing themselves
of value, to understandingright, the inter intra intense
personal relationship dynamic,and helping them understand the
framework of consciousleadership and how it starts at
(36:40):
mindful leadership.
And they start a two-prongedjourney, an individual and a
team journey, and normally myjourney ends or shifts with them
.
When I finally see them numberone spiritually, I could feel it
shift in the air.
You feel the break.
You feel the break and it'snormally always related to some
(37:04):
professional trauma, somehistorical like.
It's always connected to that.
But normally trust is at thebottom of it.
And once I hear them be able tosay and they get to the point
of, okay, great, can you help usnow build and execute XYZ?
And I had to learn that that isnot what I'm called to do.
(37:24):
I actually spent the first fiveyears of my business doing that
work and couldn't figure outwhy I was so burned out,
well-paid and empty.
But that was me responding tothe Sonias in my life the Jones,
the Jane Doe's right.
It was me responding to themand still proving to them that.
(37:44):
I'm good enough that I can dothis, that I am valuable, so I
had to, once again, at everystage, live my way into it.
To say, every stage, live myway into it.
To say this isn't the part I'mcalled to.
I'm called to help you findbreakthrough, awareness and
(38:05):
alignment, and then I can helpyou find the support system for
the next steps.
Now what typically happens,though, because they don't want
to let go.
System for the next steps.
Now what typically happensthough, because they don't want
to let go, and I don't mind them.
Not wanting to let go is, then,they want that support, somehow
supported through each rung oftheir leadership and that's
typically how I never leaveChandra is that I'm starting to
(38:37):
see a hunger and a desire formore within this space.
I'm starting to see moreleaders find themselves in the
space you found yourself back in2020 to say there's something
off, yes.
(39:00):
Yourself back in 2020 to saythere's something off, yes.
And instead of me performing myway around it, instead of me
trying to achieve one more thing, yeah, I'd rather pause.
It's, it's it's the big,spiritual, philosophical,
personal awakening pause.
And and it went from it being mybusiness having to figure out
(39:21):
how to encourage leaders thatthey needed medicine that they
didn't think they needed, to nowhelping them understand what
they're experiencing in andreally kind of just being a
guide through right and afacilitator through this part of
(39:42):
the journey, but also, to yourpoint, introducing this concept
of mindful leadership, becausealso often people immediately
associate the word leadershipwith people management.
Yes, instead of realizing right, it starts here.
We start with how well we leadourselves, yes, and so to see
(40:16):
people who are on the front lineexperience that moment for the
first time and kind of havethese ahas Now.
That is the stuff that fills me, that's the stuff that makes me
say it's all worth it right,it's still hard, and that's when
you know you're in alignment.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Say that again, because that's when you know,
when it isn't hard, when it justcomes.
I think that's when you knowyou're in alignment.
So I want to be mindful of yourtime and your space and I do
believe there's more for us totalk about and unpack here.
And if you will, if you will so, oblige me, we'll make that
(40:50):
happen.
But my question is this assomebody is listening to this
and they're tugged on as aleader period, leader of
whatever dot dot dot, right, andyou've given a lot of dot dot
dots to fill in they say youknow what?
I'm not mindful.
You know what's the one thingthat I can do to just bring in a
(41:23):
practice that gives me thecourage to become more mindful?
What would you say?
That one thing is.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
I'd say the number one thing is to create some type
of daily regimen that allowsyou to be still long enough to
hear yourself Come on.
And that doesn't have to beyoga, but it can be.
(41:49):
It doesn't have to bemeditation, but it can be right,
it can literally be.
And this is this is I'm gladyou asked this question, because
when I'm dealing with teamslike that, the first assignment
I give them is just five minutesto set their clock.
For five minutes a day they canpick if it's first thing in the
morning, lunchtime or end ofday, but they have to do it.
(42:11):
Five minutes where they set theclock to do anything they want
that allows them to just bestill.
For a lot of them it's walking.
Here's the thing when you takethe first step towards self.
The beauty about mindfulness itis a guide and it is not
(42:32):
something that you have tofigure out.
It is the one thing in life youdon't have to manage.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It's already waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
It's waiting for you.
So when you take the first step, you the you who has been
waiting to be heard inside willspeak up.
Yes, and I'll give one otherbonus, because oftentimes I get
asked where do I even start withprompt questions?
Yes, the most powerful questionyou can ask yourself at any
(43:02):
time is what am I resisting?
What am I resisting?
Because oftentimes thedifficulty that we're
experiencing, the discomfortwe're experiencing, is normally
our destiny, having a clash withour current state and our
(43:26):
current paradigm and our currentcycle, and it's normally the
resistance that's creating thefriction.
If you can just ask what am Iresisting?
And here's the deal, you don'teven have to have a journal.
You could literally ask thatquestion and go about your day.
It will come to you.
That's the most powerfulquestion we can ask at any stage
(43:50):
in our lives.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I love that.
All right, we're going toswitch to rapid fire, because I
want people to know you a littlebit more.
What's a dream project?
You haven't started yet.
Rapid fire what's a dreamproject?
Speaker 2 (44:22):
the next stage or next era of mindful leadership
and human centric leaders forfor literally the universe, but
mostly, mostly organizationalspaces.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Okay, are you a planner or a go with the flow
type?
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I don't know, but I can be flexible, but I'm
definitely a planner.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
And then this last one, inbox zero.
Is that a dream or reality?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
The dream that I'm also aware of will never happen,
okay, but if we can at leastget to the appropriate folders,
I will feel like I'm in holiday,okay.
So, yes, I actually have alittle shame around if anyone
looks at my email, or my text ormy email.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It's too much, it's too much, it's too much.
And look, look, let me tell youthis once you get to that place
where you appreciatemindfulness, you are, you feel
better about saying all of thisis too much and it's gonna be
right there too much laterlisten, I'm queen of let me star
(45:36):
this and in my planning I willcalendar out time to look at
star emails.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
It's not going to happen.
It took me a really long timeright.
Because part of my system is Icall her Perfect Patty and
Perfect Patty right, she wantsto drive all the time, and so me
and perfect Patty have come up.
Right, she could sit three rowsback on the bus, right, but
(46:05):
perfect that I had to tell herlisten, we're not going to get
through all these emails.
And if somebody emails me andsays, hey, just pulling this
back up in front for you, that'sokay, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
It's okay, because most of the time it will
recircle.
All right, look, I need to tellyou you are just a blessing.
I think the work that you'redoing is worthy work.
Keep going.
Thank you for the flowers thatyou offered me.
I tell my kids all the time youdon't know who you're impacting
.
Show up, do everything like you, do anything and make
(46:43):
everything you do with the focuson excellence and impacting
another person in the way you'vebeen anointed and ordained to
do.
That is the sauce.
You're the best.
I just have so much love thatI'm sending your way.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Receive, and thank you for this platform.
Thank you for your voice.
I don't know if you are awareof how impactful it is for
someone like yourself, with allof your ABCDEFGs, right, with
your clear.
(47:20):
I met you years ago and onething that's always stood out to
me is this clear, inherentpresence of excellence.
Right, it doesn't appear assomething that you set as a
standard or a goal.
It just is who you are.
Right, it is what you ooze.
I don't know if you understandthe impact of someone like you
(47:44):
creating this platform, havingthese conversations to let
individuals at every levelunderstand that authenticity,
grace and excellence can all beintegrated and coexist Wow.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I receive it and I thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Thank you, can't wait .
I don't know what God has instore, but I'm excited and I'm
already signed up.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
All right, let's go See you later.
See you soon, Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Talk to you soon.
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